i always go to each location first in peace. If for no other reason then to get the cool items they sell cause killing traders doesnt give their whole inventory.
I basically just took the Dream Visitor’s and Jaheira’s advice, which was to infiltrate Moonrise Towers to find out about Nightsong and the Absolute’s power. So I did that first before going to Shar’s mausoleum. I’m guessing there’s two ways to speak to the people at Moonrise Towers which is to either go there first before looking for the relic (a.k.a the Nightsong, a.k.a Aylin) OR! go to the mausoleum first, find Balthazar, assist him with finding the relic and then take her to Ketheric at Moonrise. Which is what we saw here in this video. If you go to the mausoleum first, assist Balthazar but then kill him and free the Nightsong, you trigger a fight going to Moonrise.
I went about the zone the same way I do everything in RPGs. Full explore of every other location before going where the main quest wants me. So ofc I found myself in the Gauntlet early. Didn't like the look of Balty's face, so went to combat with him first time we met, spared me a fight at the arena xD But on the other hand most of Moonrise was already dead when I got there as a result, so couldn't free the prisoners and "failed" both those q's.. Lesson learned for next time.
So I did this quest but gave Ketheric Nightsong and Isobel. The difference is he is very happy with you and offers you rewards and such, but the moment the absolute sees you with the artifact it goes the same way.
@@mikehorne4053 From my experience all you get is to skip Phase 1 of his fight (Which you also skip if you give him nightsong but not isobel). But that means you can't potentially skip phase 2. Which Is more important IMO. You just get a neat conversation with him being happy with you.
@@craves7215 is phase 2 the first fight near the brain? I assume you can't skip the Chosen of Myrkuul/phase 3 bit. and I feel like skipping the part before he transforms is actually a bad idea because then you can't kill all the allied brains and mindflayer and undead before the next part
@khrudam7243 Well Ketheric does more damage than Myrkul in my experience. So I just had Laizel use misty step to mind flayer and kill him. And it was pretty free at that point. Especially because on that playthrough I didn't kill Nightsong.
Tav: I'd sell you to Kethric again if given the chance. Aylin: Actions speak louder than words. *Tav proveeds to sell her to Lorrokan in act 3 Aylin: suprised (and probably very mad) pickachu face
I like Minthara because she's so evil. I like Halsin because he's so good. I hate Aylin because she is so disgustingly ignorant in her hatred of Ketheric, while trying to literally check you for disagreeing with Isobel, and then the game tries to make her seem like a good person. If this was actual D&D, I'd tell Lorrokan to put her ass in a demiplane if he wanted to make sure she would never escape.
@collindouglas8188 Dude, Ketheric literally trapped her in the Shadowfell where she was killed and tortured for a century. What did you expect, for her to shake hands and let bygones be bygones?
@@NoodleArms2004 she is supposed to be a paladin of a good diety. If not even to forgive, she should have had better judgment and not let her emotions drive her. Because she ends up learning nothing and literally gets trapped by Kethric minutes later again. She is just as smug, foolish, and obnoxious as Lorrokan.
@@kalicula7718 the funny part is that she actually breakes her oath if you take her with you to kill Lorrokan. But tbh it'd be easier to do bad stuff if bad guys wouldn't be such a narcissists (besides Ketheric and a couple of others). Like, even if you're a bad guy you wouldn't follow neither Lorrokan or Balthazaar. They are just so full of themselves
there is ssooooooooooooo much datamined content with orin and gortash, including hundreds of voice lines, I really hope we get a defintive edition that fleshes out act 3 in a year or so@@vinissaur
Send Shadowheart off the cliff before she leaves and then proceed with the story. With a few tricks depending on where you are in the act, when she ressurects she will stay with the party.
You need to resurrect her after you kill ketheric and after you do the first long rest or you can softlock the game. I had shadowheart bug out and think she was still in the shadowfell but Aylin wanted to talk to her and wouldnt let me end the day. Luckily I had an old save
This game's evil run has the problem every other evil run has where the game just rail roads you into the important characters working with you anyway.
I still had fun but I really wish there was more "evil content" you lose half the party and can get Minthara but she doesn't make up for all the quests that the tieflings and those party memebers are tied to. Missing out on the flawed helldusk gloves also always makes me cry lol
In my first playthrough I killed Nightsong and Isobel without ever learning who she really was. In my second playthrough I killed "The Emperor" there are many ways to go through this game.
The plot still needs to happen for the game to reach it's conclusion. You can do evil things, you can even mess up entire playthroughs and kill off important characters but if you want to progress the story then plot stuff needs to happen.
@@avalineriley6809 That's true, but you can already murder all of the characters who instantly forgive your transgressions so it wouldnt exactly break the game if they responded realistically to you being an obvious psychopath
I really wish you could give Ketheric everything he wants, keep him alive, and help him betray the other two. He's so much more interesting and fun to listen to.
...And then Ketheric murders entire world. Don't get me wrong, he _is_ the most charismatic and complex villain among the trio, but he is completely loyal to Myrkul. Though it would be hilarious seeing him fight Absolute. Absolute: "Die!" Ketheric: "... Try again." Absolute: "Oh, f-fu..." P.S. Actually, considering his "work ethics", I guess Ketheric could be theoretically persuaded to betray Myrkul - with Isobel's help and some feats of eloquence. Ketheric: "Rejoice, my friends, for I am Vlaakith's Chosen now!" Tav: "Lae'zel, what have you done?" Lae'zel: "I may have rolled Nat 20 on Deception."
@@tminusboom2140 Why doesn't he work to raise birth rate and food production? The more people in the world - the more deaths for Myrkul. And if you lessen their lifespans, but increase fertility everything will be even more "fun". DnD gods sure are... weird.
@@vadimsharanda1052 Yeah, the biggest fault in Ketheric's thinking is that he's ready to sacrifice all of Faerun to bring Isobel back... while missing the fact it ultimately includes Isobel He's tragic, sure, but he's too far gone
@@ace0071000 Exactly. If player decides to deliver Isobel to her dear father, Ketheric brainwashes her into a "perfect" daughter. Apparently, "free will" can exist only as long as you don't argue with him too much.
The gods in this universe are fucked up and their followers will literally do anything they say, if Selune ordered that nightsong to kill her lover she would do it without hesitation.
I'm kinda disappointed that it's basically the same outcome. The problem for me with the evil run at the moment is that you lose many important characters and even quest/ rewards which is a bit frustrating. I'm doing an (evil) Dark Urge run at the moment and had almost nothing to do in Act 2. I let Shadowheart kill the Nightsong so she is still in my party. I also wished that Kethric would have been the last boss because he is the most interesting of the three chosen.
@1Ashram I played their Pathfinder game, and couldn't get into it. The main problem was the voice acting, which was so bad that it ruined my immersion every time a character spoke. That and the clunky controls actually ended up making me refund the game. Not to mention how buggy the games are at release, with 40k having many issues even now, a month after launch.
@@shrubninja6444 This is true, yet they patch out the Bugs with time, and yes, the Pathfinder games are not mainstream, and focus on pure RPG and Decision making to shape the world, characters and Lore according to your decisions, while BG 3 is giving you a world to have fun in and action, Pathfinder Games let you forge the world you play in.
@@1Ashram That's pretty neat. I didn't play far enough into it to experience that bit. I'm planning to get the 40k Rogue Trader game at some point soon, now that they've had time to do some bugfixes.
Even tho this is a possibility I don't see any reason to ally with the chosen even for an evil playthrough, is better to show them who's the real boss, Tav, and of all three chosen Ketheric was the best
@@sharpasacueball Orin has an interesting backstory for Dark Urge characters, as does Gortash. The game is at its peak when playing as the Dark Urge, as your character is more personally involved with the Chosen.
I am actually mad the game gives so much freedom. I met Kethric when I saved Nightsong. I didn't have a chance to see more dialogues and see how badass he is. I accidently sped run it.
I was the same, which has the unfortunate side effect of killing all the tieflings/gnomes in the moonrise prison as you need to save them before you do the temple. That interaction with him and the goblins is fantastic, can't believe I missed it.
Act 1 and 2 were awesome, ketheric was an amazing villain and gave some off serious imposing/evil vibes. Gortash and Orin felt no where near as good as him. They definitely didn't have enough development time on act 3 and it was pushed out the door in a rush. In a definitive edition of the game act 3 should be the main focal point, needs a fair bit of reworking to make it comparable to the rest of the game in my opinion.
The 3 acts are really different from one another. And I don't think there will be more content for a "definitive edition". I'd rather have this as the definitive edition...
Still, Act 3 gives so many incredible moments. Arguably the best boss fight in the entire game, some absolutely amazing conclusions to companion quests and a lot of great dialogue throughout. Also, plenty of absolutely bonkers reveals and surprises. I really found Act 1 to be the weakest after my neutral good playthrough, loved Act 2 and didn't expect 3 to measure up but in the end it outshined everything. I'm specifically vague to avoid act 3 spoilers.
The whining about Act 3 is way overblown. Yes there is plenty of cut content and it would be nice for them to expand on a lot of the storylines, but people saying it “ruined” the game are just going too far.
To be fair, I have taken my time and arrived in lower city about 6 weeks after release and I feel total sympathy for anyone who got screwed by massive bugs or similar issues.@@CircusofPython
Kethric turning on you is the prime problem i have with most "choice based games" (dont get me wrong, i love the game but it too has this problem) You get very cleary confronted with multiple paths early on in the game, in BG3 mainly "Good" = Defeat the Goblins/Safe the Grove and "Evil" = Kill the Grove/Help the cult.... the problem i talk about is that it still isnt really a lasting choice as the game kinda railroads you into the same path at the moment of Kethrics Confrontation. I was really disappointed that my Extra-Evil Character Run just suddenly went the same story path my morally good character took, it was yet again an illusion of a choice that lost impact after Act 1.
The problem is that as soon as the elder brain would see you it would know it couldn't control you - thus it would know that you are the one with the "weapon". Thus they`d want the weapon from you. thus, you'd be controlled, and the game would end however i`d also love to see them implement that kind of ending in which you are just controlled and the evil guys win - could have something similar to the "ending" that occurs if gale blows himself up
@@hmhmoinsdk There are multiple 'game ending' choices in the game. Spoiler below. I you taunt Vlakkith, she uses WISH to end your party and you have to reload. You can give in to the mind flayer that's hurt at the beginning of the game. You also get a game over screen. I believe there are at least half a dozen more.
@@CptVein i am aware - but like i said - i`d think in act 2 there should be the option to just do what the cult wants and ending up indoctrinated - which afaik isnt possible
Yes its kind of an illusion of choice, but there is no scenario you win by siding with absolute. You are infected and doomed to become a mindflayer. Evil or not, you only chance is defeat the absolute. Everyone else other than the Chosens, were infected and destined to turn even Disciple Z'rell. In short, attempting to side with the Chosens only make you disposable and thus sealed your fate. And the game is about you saving your own skin.
@TheCah13 Psychopaths lack a significant portion of a healthy emotional register. Simply not having the alignment that you think that you have, is not psychopathy. RPGs for adults need well-written evil characters. If you cannot handle that, play something intended for children.
like what? the only other time he shows up if you dont kill him in the guantlet, is to kill you under the moonrise towers during the assault. Woah, so much content missed.
People praise the multitude of option but they more than not lead to the same escenes slightly if at all altered. Railroading at its finest. I can almost hear the DM grind his teeth when he sais as Aylin "Selune forgives you" "Fuck selune" "OK LETS PARTY AND BE MERRY, I WILL IGNORE YOU BADMOUTHING MY MOTHER EVEN THOU I WILL BREAK A RANDOM WIZARD IN HALF FOR SUGGESTING ID SHARE MY IMMORTALITY!" I like the game but It makes me so angry at every corner. Especially how bad programmed and buggy the NPCs are, or the controlls, or, or, or, or, or,
Implementing a new route or story by going evil will be a large task for Larian or the modding community. The only games I can think of that actually implement a proper alternate/evil route were done in visual novels I have played in the past.
If you like CRPGs the recent Pathfinder: Wrath of The Righteous has ten major alternate routes/stories through the main campaign and 4 are evil, 2 are neutral and 3 good. They are all very unique from each other. Though beware the game does not have nearly as high production values as BG3.
It really is bad that you can't save the Tieflings and recruit Minthara. I'd glady forsake Halsin and his group of tree huggers, but losing out on Dammon and the Arabella questline is just too much of a sacrifice. Don't even get me started on what you have to give up in order to ROMANCE Minthara. Larian needs to rewrite that whole sequence.
Well, you sorta can. I killed 2 leaders, all goblins, freed Helsin, but left minthara alive and left. Also i revealed Kaga as shadow druid and kept her alive and well. Haven't seen Dammon, but Arabella met me well and sound in A2.
That's what makes this game good ;) Strike through the heart of those who want it all ! Nope be realistic. This is one amongst those that you never ever get everything in a go !
It would have been so much better if the option to get the Tieflings to leave safely was a thing so allow the raiding of the grove without killing them.
I wish Ketheric Thorm would become an Ally. He was my favorite of the dead 3. Totally has nothing to do with the fact that he’s voiced by JK Simmons……..nothing whatsoever…….
Curious if it's possible to actually bring back Isobel alive, by not triggering the Marcus scene before you are called to retrieve Isobel. I assume Kethric still turns on you because of the artifact, but if you gave him both the Nightsong and Isobel successfully would be curious to see his reaction.
You can bring Isobel back alive. I honestly wasn't aware people were struggling. I went to last light prior to the nightsong and helped Marcus kidnap her.
Yeah man you literally just turn on the non lethal damage passive the tutorial explained to you and then empty her hp. Then she is not dead but unconscious because video games lol.
@AMediumSizedKodiak yea they tell you that. Hearing this makes me want to knock her out and give Ketheric the nightsong and see what happens. I helped him in everything except that because I wanted to finish Shadowhearts quest
@@craves7215 I just want to see how the game turns you against him if you give him everything he asked for, Nightsong and Isobel alive. I'm guessing it's the artifact getting revealed, but would be interesting to see.
@jbshbsskskhbs6713 I assume so as well, and it probably screws you over. After figuring out what the Artifact is. I doubt it's possible but I still want to see
I wish he wasnt the first we had to fight and/or come across hes got an actual compelling storyline. The other two are just power hungry and a psycho killer.
I'm broken on the inside, so I just kill everyone as I go lol - somehow, I got Shadowheart to stay on the team even though she doesn't kill Nightsong, but Nightsong died when I went and killed Kethrick... I killed Balthazar a while back, but I got the bell, but I killed the massive dude - that was last night, so I guess I'll see how that goes.
He thanks you for the job well done and tells you to pray at his altar. When you do that, the tentacles appear, your prism defends you from them, Ketheric is surprised and angry and you get sent to the pods in the colony downstairs. Same exact result.
It didn't even occur to me you COULD do this. Has anyone ever done this as the Dark Urge? Maybe I need to try this route and see if Ketheric recognises them.
It's kinda stupid how even after all you did to her she's still cool with you, but maybe making the permanent enemy of an immortal demigodess could be considered too big of a punishment, even for evil players
It would’ve been cool if you get an evil set of companions like zrell, minthara, and others to replace good only characters like Karlach, wyll, Jaheira and the bald guy, I think his name is minsk
Why does Kethric stop before punching Gortash in this path? The nightsong is still bound to him, giving him immortality, right? So why is he afraid of Orin stabbing him?
I need someone to upload the version where you kidnap Isobel and deliver the Nightsong, I imagine it comes to the same conclusion but idk what would be Katheric argument, you did everything right
He thanks you for the job well done, tells you to use his altar, tge tentacles appear, the prism protects you, they get surprised and angry and you're sent to the pods in the colony downstairs as a prisoner. Same result.
... does this cutscene also trigger if you free the nightsong? Cause in that case he would actually die when the Goblin throws that axe, so I'm wondering xD
Nope, if you free her and then go to monrise tower you skip all those scenes and go directly to the battles.. i did that, and then reload the game haha
Ketheric is a fool. Ive slaughtered entire tower , he didnt even know it was me. I dont know if its bug or not. It was kinda funny to see dead harpers after cinematic. What even killed them tower was empty.
To be honest... My experience of an evil route; it's more like a patchwork of an what-if story... And from the beginning of this choice I knew, I will miss something... And you cannot deny, that there's always a coin of morality - even as an rpg game master sooner or later I caught myself in forcing my heroes to be punished for too much bad stuff... There must always be a tiny hint "yeah, u CAN do that but u will suffer in some case"... It's okay to get less rewarded. The reward is already the option to do so many apart stuff! There should be more game over scenarios, but that would make some ooops decisions too dangerous of being tucked... A game like this needs tons of fail-save mechanics! But I agree 100% - what really hurts in the "wrong" way are the minthara goofs... She's a good character but she is also a bit beta in some dialog scenarios... I would guess the voice actor is no longer on the boat... So fixing her would break immersion by voice change
@@faridkhan6037 you can romance almost any character with any gender. I guess that makes them all homosexual. And nightsong and Isobel have their own thing going on
Im so confused theres so many cutscenes here that i never saw lol like i never saw my dream visitor step out of the astral plane @,@ or aylin go bunkers on Ketherics corpse maybe cuz Isobel was still alive? O-o
24:04 bad guys need to stop saying they are eternal. Didn’t they learn enough from all the relentless mockery Mal’ganis got for saying that line. I AM A TURTLE!
It's part of his quest, if you bargain w Mizora when she gives him the task to free someone from Thorm's dungeon, and then bargain for a better reward when they are freed, you get the sword. It has a level 6 Summon Cambion spell bound to it.
@@bgill6623 This is exactly what happens, but the cutscene before the Ketheric fight atop Moonrise was weird for me because Ketheric spoke as if we'd met, but I'd never set foot into Moonrise before then. I accidentally just blundered into the Nightsong after meeting Raphael outside the Shar Gauntlet. He told me there was a strong enemy inside so I went inside to try and kill it for XP, and then I encountered the Nightsong.
@@bgill6623 funnily enough, no, not until I finished the gauntlet and decided to long rest then explore more before moving forward. That's when I met Balthazar and then found out the Nightsong was in the gauntlet. I thought the whole Raphael/Yurgir thing was a convenient way to promote Shadowheart's questline.
So you bring Aylin and Isobel to Ketheric, which results in Isobels death, but afterwards Aylin is just like “fuck it we’re cool now” I guess? Would’ve been cool if you had to fight Dame Aylin after she crushes Ketherics skull.
Really so dumb that when you listen to them and bring them nightsong and isobel, they just go "omg you gots the prism, you is enemy now" Rare time to see minthara as a zombie if she died in act 1.
How did Ketheric even capture the nightsong to begin with? Wasnt she supposed to be super powerful? How long ago was that, and how long was his daughter dead for? Is this all Baldur gate 1 and 2 lore I missed?
![What Happen When You Show Mercy To Ketheric Thorm [Baldur's Gate 3]](/img/n.gif)
Imagine if there was an interaction where you kill the nightsong and ketheric does not notice and he just fucking dies from the goblin 😂
Yeah, that would be cool af
OHHHHH, they could do it? Couldn't they? Come on, it is DnD.
Ketheric rolls 1.
Lol, that would have been priceless
Someone needs to try this XD
Nightsong: “Watch out little warrior. I never forget a face.”
Tav: _*changes face with magic mirror 2 minutes later_
"Well True Soul... WHY DON'T YOU GO OUT THERE AND GET ME MORE PICTURES OF ISOBEL!"
Underrated comment
Dame-Ailyn is a menace!
Drider man Drider man does what ever a drider can
holy shit, you're right xD
Gortash: GET ME MORE PICTURES OF DARK URGE FEET!"
Crazy to think the first time I came to moonrise, it was simply to kill them all. Didn't even know they could speak.
i always go to each location first in peace. If for no other reason then to get the cool items they sell cause killing traders doesnt give their whole inventory.
I basically just took the Dream Visitor’s and Jaheira’s advice, which was to infiltrate Moonrise Towers to find out about Nightsong and the Absolute’s power. So I did that first before going to Shar’s mausoleum. I’m guessing there’s two ways to speak to the people at Moonrise Towers which is to either go there first before looking for the relic (a.k.a the Nightsong, a.k.a Aylin) OR! go to the mausoleum first, find Balthazar, assist him with finding the relic and then take her to Ketheric at Moonrise. Which is what we saw here in this video. If you go to the mausoleum first, assist Balthazar but then kill him and free the Nightsong, you trigger a fight going to Moonrise.
I went about the zone the same way I do everything in RPGs. Full explore of every other location before going where the main quest wants me. So ofc I found myself in the Gauntlet early. Didn't like the look of Balty's face, so went to combat with him first time we met, spared me a fight at the arena xD But on the other hand most of Moonrise was already dead when I got there as a result, so couldn't free the prisoners and "failed" both those q's.. Lesson learned for next time.
@@kria008 no but nonlethally knocking them out first does, then you kill them.
@@kria008wait, you pay for items?
So I did this quest but gave Ketheric Nightsong and Isobel. The difference is he is very happy with you and offers you rewards and such, but the moment the absolute sees you with the artifact it goes the same way.
Do you actually end up getting anything for it or not? Cuz if not I might as well just have Shart kill Nightsong in my evil run.
@@mikehorne4053 From my experience all you get is to skip Phase 1 of his fight (Which you also skip if you give him nightsong but not isobel). But that means you can't potentially skip phase 2. Which Is more important IMO. You just get a neat conversation with him being happy with you.
@@craves7215 is phase 2 the first fight near the brain? I assume you can't skip the Chosen of Myrkuul/phase 3 bit. and I feel like skipping the part before he transforms is actually a bad idea because then you can't kill all the allied brains and mindflayer and undead before the next part
@khrudam7243 Well Ketheric does more damage than Myrkul in my experience. So I just had Laizel use misty step to mind flayer and kill him. And it was pretty free at that point. Especially because on that playthrough I didn't kill Nightsong.
@@craves7215 You can skip the first half of phase 2 if you're doing a good play through and talk humanely to him.
Tav: I'd sell you to Kethric again if given the chance.
Aylin: Actions speak louder than words.
*Tav proveeds to sell her to Lorrokan in act 3
Aylin: suprised (and probably very mad) pickachu face
😂
I like Minthara because she's so evil. I like Halsin because he's so good. I hate Aylin because she is so disgustingly ignorant in her hatred of Ketheric, while trying to literally check you for disagreeing with Isobel, and then the game tries to make her seem like a good person. If this was actual D&D, I'd tell Lorrokan to put her ass in a demiplane if he wanted to make sure she would never escape.
@collindouglas8188 Dude, Ketheric literally trapped her in the Shadowfell where she was killed and tortured for a century. What did you expect, for her to shake hands and let bygones be bygones?
@@NoodleArms2004 she is supposed to be a paladin of a good diety. If not even to forgive, she should have had better judgment and not let her emotions drive her. Because she ends up learning nothing and literally gets trapped by Kethric minutes later again. She is just as smug, foolish, and obnoxious as Lorrokan.
@@kalicula7718 the funny part is that she actually breakes her oath if you take her with you to kill Lorrokan.
But tbh it'd be easier to do bad stuff if bad guys wouldn't be such a narcissists (besides Ketheric and a couple of others). Like, even if you're a bad guy you wouldn't follow neither Lorrokan or Balthazaar. They are just so full of themselves
Holy shit, Aylin doing *backflips* to stay friendly with you. 😂 Like a DM whos trying to push the story forward with a problem player.
He did break her free, eventually.
It was all part of the plan! The long con! Yees, yes, that's what it was...
All according to the plan....
Of the three villains I like Ketheric the most.
it's the most well developed, act 3 is too rushed and there are too many antagonists competing for your attention.
I thought his voice acting was awful. Sounded like JK Simmons was phoning it in.
@@AleksandrStrizhevskiy I had this problem with Gortash, but I liked Ketheric VA
there is ssooooooooooooo much datamined content with orin and gortash, including hundreds of voice lines, I really hope we get a defintive edition that fleshes out act 3 in a year or so@@vinissaur
@@override367 I really hope so too
Send Shadowheart off the cliff before she leaves and then proceed with the story. With a few tricks depending on where you are in the act, when she ressurects she will stay with the party.
daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn!
Does this for sure work!!!!!!! The fight is too difficult. But I want to keep Shadowheart! Mommy Shadowheart
You need to resurrect her after you kill ketheric and after you do the first long rest or you can softlock the game. I had shadowheart bug out and think she was still in the shadowfell but Aylin wanted to talk to her and wouldnt let me end the day. Luckily I had an old save
This game's evil run has the problem every other evil run has where the game just rail roads you into the important characters working with you anyway.
I still had fun but I really wish there was more "evil content" you lose half the party and can get Minthara but she doesn't make up for all the quests that the tieflings and those party memebers are tied to. Missing out on the flawed helldusk gloves also always makes me cry lol
In my first playthrough I killed Nightsong and Isobel without ever learning who she really was. In my second playthrough I killed "The Emperor" there are many ways to go through this game.
The plot still needs to happen for the game to reach it's conclusion.
You can do evil things, you can even mess up entire playthroughs and kill off important characters but if you want to progress the story then plot stuff needs to happen.
@@avalineriley6809 That's true, but you can already murder all of the characters who instantly forgive your transgressions so it wouldnt exactly break the game if they responded realistically to you being an obvious psychopath
@@Dongobog-ps9tzact 1 you can kill literally everyone and still progress no inconsistency but once moonrise happens you get forced into it
I really wish you could give Ketheric everything he wants, keep him alive, and help him betray the other two. He's so much more interesting and fun to listen to.
...And then Ketheric murders entire world.
Don't get me wrong, he _is_ the most charismatic and complex villain among the trio, but he is completely loyal to Myrkul. Though it would be hilarious seeing him fight Absolute.
Absolute: "Die!"
Ketheric: "... Try again."
Absolute: "Oh, f-fu..."
P.S. Actually, considering his "work ethics", I guess Ketheric could be theoretically persuaded to betray Myrkul - with Isobel's help and some feats of eloquence.
Ketheric: "Rejoice, my friends, for I am Vlaakith's Chosen now!"
Tav: "Lae'zel, what have you done?"
Lae'zel: "I may have rolled Nat 20 on Deception."
@@vadimsharanda1052Myrkul doesn't desire extinction. He desires mass death. Very different, as mass death requires a constant harvest.
@@tminusboom2140 Why doesn't he work to raise birth rate and food production? The more people in the world - the more deaths for Myrkul. And if you lessen their lifespans, but increase fertility everything will be even more "fun". DnD gods sure are... weird.
@@vadimsharanda1052
Yeah, the biggest fault in Ketheric's thinking is that he's ready to sacrifice all of Faerun to bring Isobel back... while missing the fact it ultimately includes Isobel
He's tragic, sure, but he's too far gone
@@ace0071000 Exactly. If player decides to deliver Isobel to her dear father, Ketheric brainwashes her into a "perfect" daughter. Apparently, "free will" can exist only as long as you don't argue with him too much.
I'm glad you can get away scot-free with harming someone she cared most about in the world just by having her goddess say "yo they're good now."
I mean the gods in this universe are kind of bad even the good ones mystra literally wants gale to explode him self
The gods in this universe are fucked up and their followers will literally do anything they say, if Selune ordered that nightsong to kill her lover she would do it without hesitation.
@@masterchiff6784 My boy Garl Glittergold would never
@@masterchiff6784 tbf that's kind of Gale's fault. He had it really good her lover, a Goddess' lover and all but he wanted more and messed it up.
@@azeria1 Mystra is a neutral deity, and all her past incarnations have been as well.
"The absolute will decide your fate."
"I am the absolute."
Oops. I killed Balthazar when I first met him.. he seemed kinda dodgy so while Lae'zel was talking to him I set him on fire.
I guess removing his own pain receptors turned out to be a bad idea, eh? Otherwise he might have noticed that he was on fire. 😂
I'm kinda disappointed that it's basically the same outcome. The problem for me with the evil run at the moment is that you lose many important characters and even quest/ rewards which is a bit frustrating. I'm doing an (evil) Dark Urge run at the moment and had almost nothing to do in Act 2. I let Shadowheart kill the Nightsong so she is still in my party. I also wished that Kethric would have been the last boss because he is the most interesting of the three chosen.
Yeah, the evil run isn't that great because you're still fighting the other evil guys, so it just ends up being the same run but people hate you.
Sadly BG3 is rather flawed in that regard, try Owlcat Games, at least Evil runs there are not railroaded, to follow the same outcome no matter what.
@1Ashram I played their Pathfinder game, and couldn't get into it. The main problem was the voice acting, which was so bad that it ruined my immersion every time a character spoke. That and the clunky controls actually ended up making me refund the game. Not to mention how buggy the games are at release, with 40k having many issues even now, a month after launch.
@@shrubninja6444 This is true, yet they patch out the Bugs with time, and yes, the Pathfinder games are not mainstream, and focus on pure RPG and Decision making to shape the world, characters and Lore according to your decisions, while BG 3 is giving you a world to have fun in and action, Pathfinder Games let you forge the world you play in.
@@1Ashram That's pretty neat. I didn't play far enough into it to experience that bit. I'm planning to get the 40k Rogue Trader game at some point soon, now that they've had time to do some bugfixes.
These conversations hit even harder after going to the House of Hope and meeting the Towers builder.
Having to kill JK Simmons is hard in this game
JK Simmons was the perfect person to play Thorm, his quiet intensity was perfect. Only shame is we didn’t get to speak with him more.
Ketheric is truly dead before you even met him, in more ways than one
"I gave you an order and you failed"
You mean that order I was given two minutes ago downstairs? Lmao
Shit, see Isobel like this breaks my heart. There's no way this game is not GOTY
*Astarion approves* gets me every time XD
i forgot to talk to isobel but still completed act 2, imagine my surprise that she still ends up alive and the inn not attacked
"Engage in every ribald pleasure?" My dear Aylin, if only you could open your heart to anyone but Isobel
Even tho this is a possibility I don't see any reason to ally with the chosen even for an evil playthrough, is better to show them who's the real boss, Tav, and of all three chosen Ketheric was the best
Yeah Ketheric at least had a back story of some sort. The other two are a psychopath and a tyrant
@@sharpasacueball they also have a backstory. Gortash with karlach and orin with bhaal
@@sharpasacueball Orin has an interesting backstory for Dark Urge characters, as does Gortash.
The game is at its peak when playing as the Dark Urge, as your character is more personally involved with the Chosen.
If you play dark urge you kinda get a clue that you were pretty much the “boss” of the the chosen. Until Orin backstabs you and you lose your memory.
I am actually mad the game gives so much freedom. I met Kethric when I saved Nightsong. I didn't have a chance to see more dialogues and see how badass he is. I accidently sped run it.
I speedrun it to 40 hours right now and at the beginning of act 3 now , I’ve missed a lot a lot a lot of things in act 1 and 2
I was the same, which has the unfortunate side effect of killing all the tieflings/gnomes in the moonrise prison as you need to save them before you do the temple. That interaction with him and the goblins is fantastic, can't believe I missed it.
Act 1 and 2 were awesome, ketheric was an amazing villain and gave some off serious imposing/evil vibes. Gortash and Orin felt no where near as good as him. They definitely didn't have enough development time on act 3 and it was pushed out the door in a rush. In a definitive edition of the game act 3 should be the main focal point, needs a fair bit of reworking to make it comparable to the rest of the game in my opinion.
The 3 acts are really different from one another. And I don't think there will be more content for a "definitive edition". I'd rather have this as the definitive edition...
Still, Act 3 gives so many incredible moments. Arguably the best boss fight in the entire game, some absolutely amazing conclusions to companion quests and a lot of great dialogue throughout. Also, plenty of absolutely bonkers reveals and surprises. I really found Act 1 to be the weakest after my neutral good playthrough, loved Act 2 and didn't expect 3 to measure up but in the end it outshined everything. I'm specifically vague to avoid act 3 spoilers.
The whining about Act 3 is way overblown. Yes there is plenty of cut content and it would be nice for them to expand on a lot of the storylines, but people saying it “ruined” the game are just going too far.
To be fair, I have taken my time and arrived in lower city about 6 weeks after release and I feel total sympathy for anyone who got screwed by massive bugs or similar issues.@@CircusofPython
@@CircusofPython I wouldn't say ruined but it's underwhelming. the build up was great but it's lacking in a lot of parts. even after 5 months
Kethric turning on you is the prime problem i have with most "choice based games" (dont get me wrong, i love the game but it too has this problem)
You get very cleary confronted with multiple paths early on in the game, in BG3 mainly "Good" = Defeat the Goblins/Safe the Grove and "Evil" = Kill the Grove/Help the cult.... the problem i talk about is that it still isnt really a lasting choice as the game kinda railroads you into the same path at the moment of Kethrics Confrontation. I was really disappointed that my Extra-Evil Character Run just suddenly went the same story path my morally good character took, it was yet again an illusion of a choice that lost impact after Act 1.
The problem is that as soon as the elder brain would see you it would know it couldn't control you - thus it would know that you are the one with the "weapon". Thus they`d want the weapon from you. thus, you'd be controlled, and the game would end
however i`d also love to see them implement that kind of ending in which you are just controlled and the evil guys win - could have something similar to the "ending" that occurs if gale blows himself up
@@hmhmoinsdk There are multiple 'game ending' choices in the game. Spoiler below.
I you taunt Vlakkith, she uses WISH to end your party and you have to reload. You can give in to the mind flayer that's hurt at the beginning of the game. You also get a game over screen. I believe there are at least half a dozen more.
@@CptVein he talls about true endings, not game overs.
@@CptVein i am aware - but like i said - i`d think in act 2 there should be the option to just do what the cult wants and ending up indoctrinated - which afaik isnt possible
Yes its kind of an illusion of choice, but there is no scenario you win by siding with absolute. You are infected and doomed to become a mindflayer. Evil or not, you only chance is defeat the absolute. Everyone else other than the Chosens, were infected and destined to turn even Disciple Z'rell.
In short, attempting to side with the Chosens only make you disposable and thus sealed your fate. And the game is about you saving your own skin.
I've experienced a very different path and watching these scenes helps me understand the plot better
This choice presents a more detailed Ketheric Throm than others. A much better gameplay experience.
Need more evil companions and content. Add Nere to the party.
@TheCah13 but :(
@TheCah13 😈
They should have add sazza as a companion if you sided with the goblins
@@walabixha1746 she is SO not developed at all all tho, compared to some others
@TheCah13 Psychopaths lack a significant portion of a healthy emotional register. Simply not having the alignment that you think that you have, is not psychopathy. RPGs for adults need well-written evil characters. If you cannot handle that, play something intended for children.
Balthazar has such a rich role to play in the continuing story when he isn't killed in the gauntlet of shar like 99% of playthroughs.
when you encounter him, hes such an asshole to you that even in evil runs its hard to allow him to live.
like what? the only other time he shows up if you dont kill him in the guantlet, is to kill you under the moonrise towers during the assault. Woah, so much content missed.
@@alicegg8253 Yeah I was really excited to see him about to interrogate you in this video and then... you kill him and he's gone. Wow, such depth.
People praise the multitude of option but they more than not lead to the same escenes slightly if at all altered. Railroading at its finest. I can almost hear the DM grind his teeth when he sais as Aylin "Selune forgives you" "Fuck selune" "OK LETS PARTY AND BE MERRY, I WILL IGNORE YOU BADMOUTHING MY MOTHER EVEN THOU I WILL BREAK A RANDOM WIZARD IN HALF FOR SUGGESTING ID SHARE MY IMMORTALITY!"
I like the game but It makes me so angry at every corner.
Especially how bad programmed and buggy the NPCs are, or the controlls, or, or, or, or, or,
Love how you can't help but keep poking Aylin. I was half expecting a non-standard game over from her curb stomping you.
Implementing a new route or story by going evil will be a large task for Larian or the modding community. The only games I can think of that actually implement a proper alternate/evil route were done in visual novels I have played in the past.
If you like CRPGs the recent Pathfinder: Wrath of The Righteous has ten major alternate routes/stories through the main campaign and 4 are evil, 2 are neutral and 3 good. They are all very unique from each other. Though beware the game does not have nearly as high production values as BG3.
@@Zkdub4clearly it is not 3d with motion capture, but the writing and voice acting doesn t have to shy from bg3.
sooooooo basically, just a small difference from a good playthrough (protect isobel and free nightsong path)
other 2 feels like mini boss after 50 hours investment on ketheric
It really is bad that you can't save the Tieflings and recruit Minthara. I'd glady forsake Halsin and his group of tree huggers, but losing out on Dammon and the Arabella questline is just too much of a sacrifice.
Don't even get me started on what you have to give up in order to ROMANCE Minthara. Larian needs to rewrite that whole sequence.
Just get mods, you can summon Minthara with a ring no matter what you have done
Well, you sorta can. I killed 2 leaders, all goblins, freed Helsin, but left minthara alive and left. Also i revealed Kaga as shadow druid and kept her alive and well. Haven't seen Dammon, but Arabella met me well and sound in A2.
That's what makes this game good ;) Strike through the heart of those who want it all ! Nope be realistic. This is one amongst those that you never ever get everything in a go !
It would have been so much better if the option to get the Tieflings to leave safely was a thing so allow the raiding of the grove without killing them.
@@joshuakim5240 and how exactly do you make it happen ? via goblin camp or via mountain pass ?
I gotta say, Myrkul avatar spooked me and all but. . .
NWN2 MotB myrkul feels more like how I imagine Myrkul sounding/acting. XD
I wish Ketheric Thorm would become an Ally. He was my favorite of the dead 3. Totally has nothing to do with the fact that he’s voiced by JK Simmons……..nothing whatsoever…….
12:24 honestly makes me feel really bad for ketheric
Curious if it's possible to actually bring back Isobel alive, by not triggering the Marcus scene before you are called to retrieve Isobel. I assume Kethric still turns on you because of the artifact, but if you gave him both the Nightsong and Isobel successfully would be curious to see his reaction.
You can bring Isobel back alive. I honestly wasn't aware people were struggling. I went to last light prior to the nightsong and helped Marcus kidnap her.
Yeah man you literally just turn on the non lethal damage passive the tutorial explained to you and then empty her hp. Then she is not dead but unconscious because video games lol.
@AMediumSizedKodiak yea they tell you that. Hearing this makes me want to knock her out and give Ketheric the nightsong and see what happens. I helped him in everything except that because I wanted to finish Shadowhearts quest
@@craves7215 I just want to see how the game turns you against him if you give him everything he asked for, Nightsong and Isobel alive. I'm guessing it's the artifact getting revealed, but would be interesting to see.
@jbshbsskskhbs6713 I assume so as well, and it probably screws you over. After figuring out what the Artifact is. I doubt it's possible but I still want to see
I wish he wasnt the first we had to fight and/or come across hes got an actual compelling storyline. The other two are just power hungry and a psycho killer.
I'm broken on the inside, so I just kill everyone as I go lol - somehow, I got Shadowheart to stay on the team even though she doesn't kill Nightsong, but Nightsong died when I went and killed Kethrick... I killed Balthazar a while back, but I got the bell, but I killed the massive dude - that was last night, so I guess I'll see how that goes.
What will general say if you succeed in both missions which is kidnapping both Isobel and night song? Can you do a video of that?
He thanks you for the job well done and tells you to pray at his altar. When you do that, the tentacles appear, your prism defends you from them, Ketheric is surprised and angry and you get sent to the pods in the colony downstairs. Same exact result.
This story-line is crazy good tbh! Dark, but good :D (like 100% dark chocolate)
It didn't even occur to me you COULD do this. Has anyone ever done this as the Dark Urge? Maybe I need to try this route and see if Ketheric recognises them.
It's kinda stupid how even after all you did to her she's still cool with you, but maybe making the permanent enemy of an immortal demigodess could be considered too big of a punishment, even for evil players
i just merced balthazar the first time i met him so his toad looking ass wouldnt ruin the cutscene
It would’ve been cool if you get an evil set of companions like zrell, minthara, and others to replace good only characters like Karlach, wyll, Jaheira and the bald guy, I think his name is minsk
Drenn was awesome. I wish I could have her as a companion.
Who is drenn?
@@Stuwi 4:54
I thought Kethric was my evil superman dad.
Why does Kethric stop before punching Gortash in this path? The nightsong is still bound to him, giving him immortality, right? So why is he afraid of Orin stabbing him?
I'm thinking that Orin is similar to Dame Aylin, with the blood of a God in her veins. If you haven't played dark urge, you should.
Considering that the stab to the throat would probably only be her FIRST move, he probably didn't want to give her an excuse to get... creative. 😨
Why would you not include actually bringing her to kethric in this video instead of just killing her???
Dame should of smited our ass then flown away for this betrayal
I need someone to upload the version where you kidnap Isobel and deliver the Nightsong, I imagine it comes to the same conclusion but idk what would be Katheric argument, you did everything right
He thanks you for the job well done, tells you to use his altar, tge tentacles appear, the prism protects you, they get surprised and angry and you're sent to the pods in the colony downstairs as a prisoner. Same result.
@@Stuwi ty bro
It's like you chose every bad decision, lol
24:06 What a fool you are! I'm a God! How can you kill a God!?
... does this cutscene also trigger if you free the nightsong? Cause in that case he would actually die when the Goblin throws that axe, so I'm wondering xD
Nope, if you free her and then go to monrise tower you skip all those scenes and go directly to the battles.. i did that, and then reload the game haha
@@DuduPicinin yea.. act 2 design is a bit flawed. I did everything on the map before going to Moonrise. I also had to reload 20 saves before..lol
2:40 - You are a wizard Harry!
I loved the good runs and getting to kno Isobel and night song so much I could never do this lol
Think, Tav, think!
What happen if you help him abduct Isobel, and also Nightsong. at which point you get exposed?
Ketheric turns on you anyways because of the artefact
Ketheric is a fool. Ive slaughtered entire tower , he didnt even know it was me. I dont know if its bug or not. It was kinda funny to see dead harpers after cinematic. What even killed them tower was empty.
Thank you for this video!
To be honest... My experience of an evil route; it's more like a patchwork of an what-if story... And from the beginning of this choice I knew, I will miss something... And you cannot deny, that there's always a coin of morality - even as an rpg game master sooner or later I caught myself in forcing my heroes to be punished for too much bad stuff... There must always be a tiny hint "yeah, u CAN do that but u will suffer in some case"... It's okay to get less rewarded. The reward is already the option to do so many apart stuff! There should be more game over scenarios, but that would make some ooops decisions too dangerous of being tucked... A game like this needs tons of fail-save mechanics! But I agree 100% - what really hurts in the "wrong" way are the minthara goofs... She's a good character but she is also a bit beta in some dialog scenarios... I would guess the voice actor is no longer on the boat... So fixing her would break immersion by voice change
So you waited until AFTER you got the Nightsong to visit Moonrise?
You miss out on a ton I believe don't you?
I wonder if you can keep Isobel alive during that last fight. Or she just dies when Ketheric falls?
In my run she is alive and reunited with nightsong. But she did not join the fight.
@@waggna469So homosexuals?
@@faridkhan6037 yes? You play the game?
@@waggna469 I know that origin characters could be, but vital characters like Isobel and Nightsong...
@@faridkhan6037 you can romance almost any character with any gender. I guess that makes them all homosexual. And nightsong and Isobel have their own thing going on
so what happens if you capture Isobel and Aylin? Seems like you only showed the scenes if Isobel died. Does she still get brainwashed?
What happens if you free nightsong and then this dude gets stabbed? Does he dies?
This cutscene doesn't happen if you free her. The tower becomes a mere battleground with all cultists hostile.
Ngl, your answer choices are on point. That lil bird should know whos not to fvck with.
Im so confused theres so many cutscenes here that i never saw lol like i never saw my dream visitor step out of the astral plane @,@ or aylin go bunkers on Ketherics corpse maybe cuz Isobel was still alive? O-o
24:04 bad guys need to stop saying they are eternal. Didn’t they learn enough from all the relentless mockery Mal’ganis got for saying that line. I AM A TURTLE!
what sword does wyll have when he is talking to ketheric in the boss arena?
It's part of his quest, if you bargain w Mizora when she gives him the task to free someone from Thorm's dungeon, and then bargain for a better reward when they are freed, you get the sword. It has a level 6 Summon Cambion spell bound to it.
Yeah I believe Mizora gives you as a reward, it's called Infernal Rapier or something
7:03 "compassion is not a virtue" was hilarious
It would be funny if you actually kill pr free aylin, and the goblin just kills ketheric
So what does Ketheric say when you actually bring Isobel?
But what if you did manage to capture Isobel?
Hmm, I’ve only ever met Ketheric as Durge. Very interesting to see his different greeting for Tav.
Faith without action is megacrap.
wait, so you can go to Nightsong before meeting ketheric? If you free her, does the hallberd throw kill him? ^^'
She'll begin attacking moonrise once she's free so thay cutscene will probably never happen
@@bgill6623 oh, right. Would have been hilarious ^^
@@bgill6623 This is exactly what happens, but the cutscene before the Ketheric fight atop Moonrise was weird for me because Ketheric spoke as if we'd met, but I'd never set foot into Moonrise before then.
I accidentally just blundered into the Nightsong after meeting Raphael outside the Shar Gauntlet. He told me there was a strong enemy inside so I went inside to try and kill it for XP, and then I encountered the Nightsong.
@@thespianmask really, didn't you run into Balthazar? He'll specifically tell you how the nightsong is in the heart of shars gauntlet
@@bgill6623 funnily enough, no, not until I finished the gauntlet and decided to long rest then explore more before moving forward. That's when I met Balthazar and then found out the Nightsong was in the gauntlet. I thought the whole Raphael/Yurgir thing was a convenient way to promote Shadowheart's questline.
What build are you using? Full thief?
So you bring Aylin and Isobel to Ketheric, which results in Isobels death, but afterwards Aylin is just like “fuck it we’re cool now” I guess? Would’ve been cool if you had to fight Dame Aylin after she crushes Ketherics skull.
I had wondered why they wasted J.K. Simmons on Ketheric but it turns out the lion’s share of his dialogue is only if you make the worst decisions.
I don’t even let Balthazar go into the portal. I found the place he was hiding in and I backstabbed him using Asterion with a poison infused dagger.
Its even stranger because i can warn J. about Marcus's trying to take Isabel, even after the attack... 😅 need to patch that out
Really so dumb that when you listen to them and bring them nightsong and isobel, they just go "omg you gots the prism, you is enemy now"
Rare time to see minthara as a zombie if she died in act 1.
Someone knows the soundtrack at: 27:12?
Anyone know a video of the fight with Balthazar in the oubliette? So curious how you get out of the profane wombs and how hard it is.
Absolute: I’m not like other gods, I have……….. Illithid arms
How did Ketheric even capture the nightsong to begin with? Wasnt she supposed to be super powerful? How long ago was that, and how long was his daughter dead for? Is this all Baldur gate 1 and 2 lore I missed?
Nah, it's all new, lore. As for how Kethric captured her, if you didn't notice, the Nightsong is very, very, very stupid.
that's quite a bit of content I missed
Karlach and Wyll need to stfu when theyre eavesdropping on the 3 bbegs 😂
"SHHHH, GUYS THEYRE MONOLOGUING, WRITE THAT DOWN, WRITE THAT DOWN!!"
I rather save both Nightsong and Isobel, than doom them like this.
If we free or kill the nightsong before we see this encounter, will the axe throw kill him?
Freeing the nightsong triggers an attack on moonrise. So that isn’t an option
Wait you can actually work for Ketheric? You learn something new every day huh.
Omg... this is such a trial of patience.
Wish we could have Balthazar's body type
This makes me think what if you kill nightsong and then go for the first time to moonrise tower. Will the goblins kill Kethric.
Is this Dark Urge or just a normal evil playthrough?