Great video! I love all your content but I especially appreciate this guide. I've been playing forza since FM2 but I still try to watch guide videos whenever I see them because I like to learn other people's philosophies and try new ideas. It's seems we are playing Forza in a completely different way but a lot of what you spoke about still applies to me. I race almost exclusively street cars and they are usually B/A/S class. Most of my builds fall into 2 distinct categories. 1. Slight improvements to a competent factory setup. A lot of modern performance cars feel great factory stock and I just try to give them a boost to their PI without dramatically changing them. My favorite car of this nature is the 2018 Camaro ZL1 1LE as it comes with tunable race suspension and sport brakes from the factory. The default spring and damper settings are quite good (and I've used them on a separate 2016 Camaro SS build) but the alignment needed some tweaks. With 650hp and 305/325mm from the factory it doesn't need anything in those areas. I like the factory gear ratios since they match the wide powerband of of the supercharged V8. I ended up doing the sport transmission, race clutch and race flywheel to assist with aggressive shifting since I drive manual w/ clutch on controller. Finally, I added sport tires for more grip and a set of lighter weight wheels to get to A700. 2. Complete rebuilds. Even as an enormous fan of classic muscle cars I'll be the first to admit that they are awful to drive when stock (or poorly upgraded). But the satisfaction of staring with a car that has horrendous dynamics and making it competitive 2-3 classes higher is supreme. The two most important things I've learned when building D class muscle cars for A or B class is that they need a 50/50 weight distribution and they need the maximum front tire width available. When building for B class I often still have the factory engines in place. Whether the car has a big block or a small block it's usually iron and sitting directly on the front axle giving the car anywhere from 55 to 60 % of the weight over the front axle. In these cases I prioritize using a combination of weight reduction and ballast to keep the overall weight close to stock or lower while getting a 50/50 distribution. Getting these cars to 50/50 has a dramatic improvement on their handling and makes suspension tuning far simpler. If you are taking one of these to A class then the best thing you can do is to swap to an LS3 (6.2L V8). This is a modern aluminum block Chevy V8 that weighs a lot less than the old school engines and revs much higher. Despite the displacement an LS3 is actually very lightweight for a V8 and so it helps your weight distribution far more than you'd think. Depending on the rest of your build you might want to consider an aggressive camshaft and the race valves. Both of these change the powerband of the LS3 and let it rev even higher. The power they add is almost exclusively at the top end and thus gives you more performance without having to worry about creating too much oversteer when powering out of corners like you might with other engine upgrades that add more low end power. The front tire width is fairly obvious. I specify front because many of these cars can only get to a 275/285/295mm front tire but can go all the way up to 345/355mm in the rear. Most of my builds end up with max front width and a 305/315/325mm in the rear. Getting that extra front end grip (and tuning the camber appropriately) makes a world of difference in how these cars handle. Extra rear width can help control the power but I find that adding rear tires that are significantly wider than the fronts (say a 275 front with a 345 rear) creates such an imbalance that it can become difficult to tune properly. Everything else on these classic muscle builds sort of depends on what the base cars statistics are. In a lot of B class builds I can get away with sport tires, brakes, chassis reinforcement and transmission if things are setup properly. In A class those would all be race. Race suspension and diff are a must. Thanks for all the great content. Keep it up!
Thank you so much! 😊 It's always awesome to see when people play the game differently. I see it as a big strength of the Forza franchise with the variety of playstyles it supports. On Forza Horizon I also do a little bit of what you're describing and have had a lot of fun doing that. On Motorsport I always tend to fall back to my competitive mindset and disregard all common sense or realism for performance gains. 😅🙈
Personally I find that for most old cars (i.e. from before 2000), upgrading both the transmission and clutch to their race variants helps immensely to reduce shift times, especially if playing with automatic clutch - and also makes shifting way easier with manual clutch. So in my opinion it's worth spending a little bit extra PI on those over straight power upgrades. Also, generally speaking, Forza rewards handling over power when it comes to multiplayer races, especially in regards to tire grip. In this case E class didn't let you much budget to start with, and Silverstone National has two big straights that favor powerbuilds, but in most other tracks and higher classes, having race tires really makes a world of difference in terms of lap times and ease of driving.
Interesting to hear that. I found for the Miata that the clutch didn't do much in terms of shift times with the race transmission installed. Maybe I am wrong or some cars behave differently here. I totally agree on the handling over power front. With anything above D or C Class I don't think you can be competitive without race tires anymore.
Youre such a nice guy and you're guides are idiot proof (that means that I understand) Keep it up and you'll be one of best TH-camrs that's a promise :)
Another excellent and informative vid HD. As I have mentioned in a previous post, most of my racing experience is based on FH5 and I literally just download the most popular upgrade/tune for whatever I needed and with that strategy not learning really anything about setup and tuning. There’s no doubt that to be successful and maximize enjoyment in FM, a player really needs to know this information. A big thank you! 😀👍👍
Awesome, very glad you're getting something out of this! 😊 I was in the same boat once, but started to learn tuning in FH4. Still not an expert, but getting better. 😅
I didn't get to test it myself, but from what I've seen in the community, when using the Race Transmission, you can use Manual mode with the clutch and shift gears without using the clutch. They concluded that this way, the gear change is faster than using just the manual mode. I think it's worth trying. Also, I loved the video and I'm enjoying the content on your channel. :)
Balancing does not seem to be Turn10s strong suit sadly. I think there are other cars which can be good for E Class though, but I think a lot of people also just jump onto what's popular, myself included for this one. 🙈 I promise to showcase a different car for D Class soon!
I have the same Mazda, but have it running C-Class stuff. It sticks to the road like glue and is fun to drive. You won't even spill your beer. When it come to ballast, I have an important tip. Ballast works best in a rear wheel drive with the engine front. Getting more weight in any way you can always helps your rear end. Ballasting a front wheel drive with front engine doesn't seem to help much. The best thing to do there is remove weight, and then balance with springs. The reason for this should be obvious. You want the weight on the front. A little balance does help, which you get from weight reduction, but in my experience, the ballast doesn't give you a good bang for your buck in that situation. The same applies to rear/mid engine cars with rear wheel drive. Leaving the weight on the rear is what you want anyway. You get a little balance through weight reduction as normal, and just balance with springs. For every 1% of weight difference, you need to offset front/rear springs by 30lbs/inch. I think the conversion would by 8kgs/mm for metric. I also can't live without race brakes, since they are ideal for trail braking. Bonus tip: Some cars get a little balance with a full roll cage, or a partial. It just depends.
Thank you! 😊 I agree, most of the time it's best to not go 2 or more PI classes higher. It can work sometimes, depends on the available upgrades, but generally it's better to stay in or kind of close to the original PI class. 👍
Great video, thanks I would like to see a tuning guide for the road cars, I noted your arbs were set quite stiff, when usually in race cars one goes soft
In Forza Motorsport stiffer ARBs generally seem to be better, even if that's not realistic. Softer ARBs can work as well though, as I think in some ways it's also personal preference.
My priority is allways grip and handling. Power is the last part. Plus: I try to choose a car with lower LI to have more room for upgrades. First races a bit difficult but it works out on the long shot.
Grip and Handling are very important a lot of the time for sure. At least in the lower PI classes power also takes a higher priority for me though, otherwise it will just not move. 😅
@@HDeeRacing On the most race tracks grip and handling more important. Of course you are right. I've also been in situations where I lost places on the straights. I'm already looking for cars that have good basic requirements. For example, last week I used the Honda NSX. Hard to beat in terms of grip, but it lacked a little speed. But I still rely on grip because I'm not the best driver. Good job from you, I hope you get more subscriptions!
Thank you for this superb tutorial. I can vouch that the information really works. I had been stuck behind a certain rival in E-class for days (erm weeks...). I studied your approach in detail and this morning drove the Mazda up to level 22 so as to be able to apply all of your suggestions. It worked like a charm! Took me from top 28% to top 17% leaving that troublesome rival far behind! I have also studied your previous race car tuning tutorial in depth and again it helped immensely. Do you have any advice about the Differential settings for AWD cars? I am struggling to optimise the VW Golf R. Thank again for all the hard work in making these videos.
You're very welcome, I'm very glad both videos helped you out! 😊 As for the diff settings for AWD: I haven't tried any AWD car in the new Forza yet. In older Forza games it was usually good to set the the center to anything between 50 and 75, maybe even a little higher. Higher values mean more behavior like RWD cars. Front acceleration should be set very similar to FWD cars, so close to 100, with the rear accel being similar to RWD cars, so 40 to 100. Similar story for deceleration, so anything between 0 and 20 should work, with the front probably being lower. Hope this helps for now. I will make sure to incorporate a AWD car in a future video!
Only thing I did differently was add racing brakes so I can brake good in battle I didn’t add aero so speed was better and I didn’t need extra power but this cars a beast
I'll share my race transmission base settings, once set just adjust the final drive to suit the speed your car is best suited to.... Final drive... 4.36 1st gear.... 3.08 2nd....... 2.03 3rd....... 1.60 4th....... 1.31 5th....... 1.07 6th....... 0.90 You can also adjust 1st gear a bit to help get the car off the line at race start.
Hi, Nice and clear explanation. I have one question about aero though. You have front and rear wing installed but I noticed, that in fine tune window you have almost none downforce set. Is it any good to have these installed for aero purposes when not used? I understand the reasons for PI reduction. Thanks.
Yes, installing the aero parts is mostly because of PI reduction. They come with downsides though: increased weight and drag reducing top speed and acceleration. We can't do anything about the weight, but reducing downforce minimises the effect of drag. Sometimes it is better to go with high downforce in the front, but in the rear it's rarely worth it, unless you are in a higher PI class. Hope this makes sense.
I like this channel, so I don't want this to come across as a savage youtube comment... but there's some "theatre" being done here, right? "Oh I'll just tune this car for E class and erm... hmmm... oh I *think* I'll upgrade it to the exact meta-build that has completely dominated the E class hopper for the last week" Even though that build is actually VERY weird compared to how 90% of all the top car upgrade paths go (it eschews race tyres and race suspension, which is like... unheard of even in the lower PI classes)
Not quite sure what you're getting at. I made this video before there was even any E Class Hopper. And I didn't look at any other builds for the Miata on purpose, because I did want to figure the car out myself and show my process of doing that. If my build is very similar to the Meta build, than that just means there is little room for experimentation for this car imo.
I feel the same way about people using leaderboard cars in lobbies but I also understand that people can play the game the way they choose. I deliberately build and tune non-leaderboard cars to race in lobbies and I set my expectations according to how many meta cars are in the lobby. If there are 5 meta cars in the lobby and I get a podium that feels like a win to me. Often the people who race these meta cars use them because they're not as competitive in normal cars so I've had some close races with slower drivers in those cars, it generally balances out. Ultimately as long as I've got someone to race wheel to wheel with (clean) then I'm having fun.
The name of the tune is something with HDeeRacing in it, but I would recommend searching by that user name instead, should be easier and I only have one tune shared for the Miata.
Upgrading to a race transmission is bad advice especially on older cars the PI cost seems cheap but it makes the PI cost of other upgrades more expensive sometimes after upgrading the rest of the car the race transmission cost 20 PI OR MORE. Your WAY better off leaving transmission stock and just using manual with clutch which gives you fast shift time at no PI cost
I haven't noticed that yet, will check it in the future though. I still have very bad shift times if I don't install the race transmission, even with manual with clutch. 🤷♂️
@@HDeeRacing manual with clutch shift time in comparable to regular manual it’s almost instant in FM you have to press the clutch press upshift and release upshift then clutch otherwise it penalizes you by shifting extremely slowly if you do it right it’s basically instant.
Great video! I love all your content but I especially appreciate this guide. I've been playing forza since FM2 but I still try to watch guide videos whenever I see them because I like to learn other people's philosophies and try new ideas.
It's seems we are playing Forza in a completely different way but a lot of what you spoke about still applies to me. I race almost exclusively street cars and they are usually B/A/S class. Most of my builds fall into 2 distinct categories.
1. Slight improvements to a competent factory setup.
A lot of modern performance cars feel great factory stock and I just try to give them a boost to their PI without dramatically changing them.
My favorite car of this nature is the 2018 Camaro ZL1 1LE as it comes with tunable race suspension and sport brakes from the factory. The default spring and damper settings are quite good (and I've used them on a separate 2016 Camaro SS build) but the alignment needed some tweaks. With 650hp and 305/325mm from the factory it doesn't need anything in those areas. I like the factory gear ratios since they match the wide powerband of of the supercharged V8. I ended up doing the sport transmission, race clutch and race flywheel to assist with aggressive shifting since I drive manual w/ clutch on controller. Finally, I added sport tires for more grip and a set of lighter weight wheels to get to A700.
2. Complete rebuilds.
Even as an enormous fan of classic muscle cars I'll be the first to admit that they are awful to drive when stock (or poorly upgraded). But the satisfaction of staring with a car that has horrendous dynamics and making it competitive 2-3 classes higher is supreme. The two most important things I've learned when building D class muscle cars for A or B class is that they need a 50/50 weight distribution and they need the maximum front tire width available.
When building for B class I often still have the factory engines in place. Whether the car has a big block or a small block it's usually iron and sitting directly on the front axle giving the car anywhere from 55 to 60 % of the weight over the front axle. In these cases I prioritize using a combination of weight reduction and ballast to keep the overall weight close to stock or lower while getting a 50/50 distribution. Getting these cars to 50/50 has a dramatic improvement on their handling and makes suspension tuning far simpler.
If you are taking one of these to A class then the best thing you can do is to swap to an LS3 (6.2L V8). This is a modern aluminum block Chevy V8 that weighs a lot less than the old school engines and revs much higher. Despite the displacement an LS3 is actually very lightweight for a V8 and so it helps your weight distribution far more than you'd think. Depending on the rest of your build you might want to consider an aggressive camshaft and the race valves. Both of these change the powerband of the LS3 and let it rev even higher. The power they add is almost exclusively at the top end and thus gives you more performance without having to worry about creating too much oversteer when powering out of corners like you might with other engine upgrades that add more low end power.
The front tire width is fairly obvious. I specify front because many of these cars can only get to a 275/285/295mm front tire but can go all the way up to 345/355mm in the rear. Most of my builds end up with max front width and a 305/315/325mm in the rear. Getting that extra front end grip (and tuning the camber appropriately) makes a world of difference in how these cars handle. Extra rear width can help control the power but I find that adding rear tires that are significantly wider than the fronts (say a 275 front with a 345 rear) creates such an imbalance that it can become difficult to tune properly.
Everything else on these classic muscle builds sort of depends on what the base cars statistics are. In a lot of B class builds I can get away with sport tires, brakes, chassis reinforcement and transmission if things are setup properly. In A class those would all be race. Race suspension and diff are a must.
Thanks for all the great content. Keep it up!
Thank you so much! 😊 It's always awesome to see when people play the game differently. I see it as a big strength of the Forza franchise with the variety of playstyles it supports. On Forza Horizon I also do a little bit of what you're describing and have had a lot of fun doing that. On Motorsport I always tend to fall back to my competitive mindset and disregard all common sense or realism for performance gains. 😅🙈
Great vid, very informative. You deserve more viewers !
I appreciate that!
Right on queue for the e class spec races, you always come in clutch.
More of a coincidence, but glad this worked out! 😂
I’m very glad I found your channel. Good and regular content almost every day. Keep up the food work and you will grow for sure.
Thank you! 😊 Not quite every day, but I aim to release at least 2 videos a week if I have enough time. Regular job still takes priority sadly. 😅🙈
Personally I find that for most old cars (i.e. from before 2000), upgrading both the transmission and clutch to their race variants helps immensely to reduce shift times, especially if playing with automatic clutch - and also makes shifting way easier with manual clutch. So in my opinion it's worth spending a little bit extra PI on those over straight power upgrades.
Also, generally speaking, Forza rewards handling over power when it comes to multiplayer races, especially in regards to tire grip. In this case E class didn't let you much budget to start with, and Silverstone National has two big straights that favor powerbuilds, but in most other tracks and higher classes, having race tires really makes a world of difference in terms of lap times and ease of driving.
Interesting to hear that. I found for the Miata that the clutch didn't do much in terms of shift times with the race transmission installed. Maybe I am wrong or some cars behave differently here.
I totally agree on the handling over power front. With anything above D or C Class I don't think you can be competitive without race tires anymore.
Youre such a nice guy and you're guides are idiot proof (that means that I understand) Keep it up and you'll be one of best TH-camrs that's a promise :)
Thank you very much! 😊
It was a nice video, I however would have wished you hadn't taken the Meta car. Keep up the good work
Did the same for some other cars, this was just the one I happened to start this series on.
Another excellent and informative vid HD. As I have mentioned in a previous post, most of my racing experience is based on FH5 and I literally just download the most popular upgrade/tune for whatever I needed and with that strategy not learning really anything about setup and tuning. There’s no doubt that to be successful and maximize enjoyment in FM, a player really needs to know this information. A big thank you! 😀👍👍
Awesome, very glad you're getting something out of this! 😊 I was in the same boat once, but started to learn tuning in FH4. Still not an expert, but getting better. 😅
I didn't get to test it myself, but from what I've seen in the community, when using the Race Transmission, you can use Manual mode with the clutch and shift gears without using the clutch. They concluded that this way, the gear change is faster than using just the manual mode. I think it's worth trying.
Also, I loved the video and I'm enjoying the content on your channel. :)
Race transmission are normally clutch-less, so I wouldn't expect any difference. Will test that though.
E class is fun but I hate seeing everyone in the same car!
Balancing does not seem to be Turn10s strong suit sadly. I think there are other cars which can be good for E Class though, but I think a lot of people also just jump onto what's popular, myself included for this one. 🙈 I promise to showcase a different car for D Class soon!
I have the same Mazda, but have it running C-Class stuff. It sticks to the road like glue and is fun to drive. You won't even spill your beer. When it come to ballast, I have an important tip. Ballast works best in a rear wheel drive with the engine front. Getting more weight in any way you can always helps your rear end. Ballasting a front wheel drive with front engine doesn't seem to help much. The best thing to do there is remove weight, and then balance with springs. The reason for this should be obvious. You want the weight on the front. A little balance does help, which you get from weight reduction, but in my experience, the ballast doesn't give you a good bang for your buck in that situation. The same applies to rear/mid engine cars with rear wheel drive. Leaving the weight on the rear is what you want anyway. You get a little balance through weight reduction as normal, and just balance with springs. For every 1% of weight difference, you need to offset front/rear springs by 30lbs/inch. I think the conversion would by 8kgs/mm for metric. I also can't live without race brakes, since they are ideal for trail braking. Bonus tip: Some cars get a little balance with a full roll cage, or a partial. It just depends.
These are great tips, thank you. 😊👍
Yes most excellent!! Thank you!! I try to keep a car in its class or go 1 class above .
2 is tricky or the car can’t handle it in my opinion
Thank you! 😊 I agree, most of the time it's best to not go 2 or more PI classes higher. It can work sometimes, depends on the available upgrades, but generally it's better to stay in or kind of close to the original PI class. 👍
Great video, thanks
I would like to see a tuning guide for the road cars, I noted your arbs were set quite stiff, when usually in race cars one goes soft
In Forza Motorsport stiffer ARBs generally seem to be better, even if that's not realistic. Softer ARBs can work as well though, as I think in some ways it's also personal preference.
My priority is allways grip and handling. Power is the last part. Plus: I try to choose a car with lower LI to have more room for upgrades. First races a bit difficult but it works out on the long shot.
Grip and Handling are very important a lot of the time for sure. At least in the lower PI classes power also takes a higher priority for me though, otherwise it will just not move. 😅
@@HDeeRacing On the most race tracks grip and handling more important. Of course you are right. I've also been in situations where I lost places on the straights. I'm already looking for cars that have good basic requirements. For example, last week I used the Honda NSX. Hard to beat in terms of grip, but it lacked a little speed. But I still rely on grip because I'm not the best driver. Good job from you, I hope you get more subscriptions!
Thank you for this superb tutorial. I can vouch that the information really works. I had been stuck behind a certain rival in E-class for days (erm weeks...). I studied your approach in detail and this morning drove the Mazda up to level 22 so as to be able to apply all of your suggestions. It worked like a charm! Took me from top 28% to top 17% leaving that troublesome rival far behind!
I have also studied your previous race car tuning tutorial in depth and again it helped immensely.
Do you have any advice about the Differential settings for AWD cars? I am struggling to optimise the VW Golf R.
Thank again for all the hard work in making these videos.
You're very welcome, I'm very glad both videos helped you out! 😊
As for the diff settings for AWD: I haven't tried any AWD car in the new Forza yet. In older Forza games it was usually good to set the the center to anything between 50 and 75, maybe even a little higher. Higher values mean more behavior like RWD cars. Front acceleration should be set very similar to FWD cars, so close to 100, with the rear accel being similar to RWD cars, so 40 to 100. Similar story for deceleration, so anything between 0 and 20 should work, with the front probably being lower.
Hope this helps for now. I will make sure to incorporate a AWD car in a future video!
Only thing I did differently was add racing brakes so I can brake good in battle I didn’t add aero so speed was better and I didn’t need extra power but this cars a beast
How to use telemetry to improve would be useful.
Noted, I will get to that in the future. 👍
I'll share my race transmission base settings, once set just adjust the final drive to suit the speed your car is best suited to....
Final drive... 4.36
1st gear.... 3.08
2nd....... 2.03
3rd....... 1.60
4th....... 1.31
5th....... 1.07
6th....... 0.90
You can also adjust 1st gear a bit to help get the car off the line at race start.
Sports brakes are adjustable and often give you an extra PI point to play with.
Can be very much worth it.
A rivals that I'm doing is Watkins Glen s class. Would be interesting to see you do this on that. I'm trying a vantage and xbow gt4
Thanks for the suggestion. We will get to S Class in the future for sure.
These are very useful vids thanks
Awesome, glad you think so! 😊
My replays don’t seem to work , unless I’m doing something wrong , thanks for the video , shane uk 🇬🇧
Replays were broken for a long time now. They are supposed to be fixed with todays update, but I can't confirm or deny that yet.
Good informative video👍
Thank you! 😊
Hi,
Nice and clear explanation. I have one question about aero though.
You have front and rear wing installed but I noticed, that in fine tune window you have almost none downforce set. Is it any good to have these installed for aero purposes when not used? I understand the reasons for PI reduction.
Thanks.
Yes, installing the aero parts is mostly because of PI reduction. They come with downsides though: increased weight and drag reducing top speed and acceleration. We can't do anything about the weight, but reducing downforce minimises the effect of drag. Sometimes it is better to go with high downforce in the front, but in the rear it's rarely worth it, unless you are in a higher PI class. Hope this makes sense.
Very useful, thanks. Do you know if clutch and transmission upgrades improve shifting speed when using auto trans?
They should, yes. Not sure about the clutch when you are already on a race transmission, but otherwise shift times should improve on auto as well.
@@HDeeRacing Danke schön!
I like this channel, so I don't want this to come across as a savage youtube comment... but there's some "theatre" being done here, right? "Oh I'll just tune this car for E class and erm... hmmm... oh I *think* I'll upgrade it to the exact meta-build that has completely dominated the E class hopper for the last week"
Even though that build is actually VERY weird compared to how 90% of all the top car upgrade paths go (it eschews race tyres and race suspension, which is like... unheard of even in the lower PI classes)
Not quite sure what you're getting at. I made this video before there was even any E Class Hopper. And I didn't look at any other builds for the Miata on purpose, because I did want to figure the car out myself and show my process of doing that. If my build is very similar to the Meta build, than that just means there is little room for experimentation for this car imo.
I feel the same way about people using leaderboard cars in lobbies but I also understand that people can play the game the way they choose.
I deliberately build and tune non-leaderboard cars to race in lobbies and I set my expectations according to how many meta cars are in the lobby.
If there are 5 meta cars in the lobby and I get a podium that feels like a win to me.
Often the people who race these meta cars use them because they're not as competitive in normal cars so I've had some close races with slower drivers in those cars, it generally balances out.
Ultimately as long as I've got someone to race wheel to wheel with (clean) then I'm having fun.
wht is the tune name on forz motorsport
The name of the tune is something with HDeeRacing in it, but I would recommend searching by that user name instead, should be easier and I only have one tune shared for the Miata.
Good explaining, but for my game style quite unrealistic. I can't imagine how you would reduce 150 kgs of weight in real world.
Sadly realism is not a strength of Forza. Some things make very little sense.
Upgrading to a race transmission is bad advice especially on older cars the PI cost seems cheap but it makes the PI cost of other upgrades more expensive sometimes after upgrading the rest of the car the race transmission cost 20 PI OR MORE. Your WAY better off leaving transmission stock and just using manual with clutch which gives you fast shift time at no PI cost
I haven't noticed that yet, will check it in the future though. I still have very bad shift times if I don't install the race transmission, even with manual with clutch. 🤷♂️
@@HDeeRacing manual with clutch shift time in comparable to regular manual it’s almost instant in FM you have to press the clutch press upshift and release upshift then clutch otherwise it penalizes you by shifting extremely slowly if you do it right it’s basically instant.
Maybe that works better on a controller. With a wheel and pedals I am a lot slower with using the clutch pedal, which is why I prefer to not use it.
cant be bothered to grind it out with E... takes so long
It does take quite some time, which sucks. I wish this wasn't the case.