It's like asking if you need electricity. Of course you do because we have found that to be better than not. All ima say is, I live in Indiana, we go from no humidity and cold temps to full humidity and high temps day to night, my Schecter C-7 Silver Mountain was in it's case before I had my AC going while the humidity did it's ups and downs fore about 2 weeks, got it out and it was in perfect tuning. Never had a guitar this stable in my life. it has the 3 pc mahogany neck with 2 carbon fiber reinforcement rods. So yes, you 100% NEED them.
Here we have extremely hard woods, so hard that truss rods cannot bend the neck, which, of course, defeats the purpose of having a truss rod in the first place. So, when I use native woods, I often go truss-less. My question is: Why install a truss rod and reinforcement carbon fibers instead of choosing a harder material, like a harder wood?
10:02 The only downside of making a guitar with carbon fiber reinforcement without a truss rod is that you have to shape the relief directly on the fretboard itself. I believe Vigier guitars do this.
@@HighlineGuitars As a guitar player, it's my understanding that a completely flat fretboard would cause significant buzzing. Most guitar manufacturers recommend having some relief in the neck to avoid this. I must admit, your response surprised me.
@@Argentuza Guitar manufacturers need to crank out guitars to be profitable. As a result, they rely on relief to ensure their guitars don’t buzz because it’s fast, easy, and cheap. Small shop luthiers are able to invest the time needed to achieve buzz-free, low action setups on guitars with flat necks. Using relief to eliminate string buzz is the lazy way to do it.
I've moved to using the carbon fiber rods on all of my necks. Its not a ton of extra work and I feel it makes all of them just that much more stable. Excellent vid!
I have built four or five telecaster and Stratocaster necks using quarter sawn rock maple with no trust rod or stiffing rods at all. I like a very thick neck so I use a 1 inch router bit to shape the back of my neck. It’s basically flat from the heel to the head of the guitar on the very bottom centerline.I’ve never had one of them move even an iota. Best Playing necks I’ve ever had.
The issue I'm having, with the idea of building necks with carbon fiber replacing adjustable truss rods, is the fact that a good neck needs to have a relief, on spec. The spec will depend on some factors, including fret wear. However, with a non-adjustable carbon fiber rod (or rods) one cannot control the amount of relief. Then there is also the issue of the test of time, which we just have to patiently wait for the verdict on how these necks age.
What about players who don't want any relief? Also, carbon fiber can be used along with a truss rod, which allows for adjustment of relief. Finally, the purpose of carbon fiber reinforcement is to ensure stability today, tomorrow, and decades into the future.
I was strictly referring to carbon fiber rods being used as a complete replacement for the truss rod. I have no concerns about carbon fiber rods being used in addition to the adjustable truss rod. Regarding the players who do not want any relief, it is my experience that they cannot explain to me why it is that their guitar will play better without any relief. Perhaps the following analogy helps explain my point of view. To a guitar tech, a guitar-playing customer is what a patient is to a doctor. The patient should not be telling the doctor which medications they want. As a guitar repair technician, in a big metropolitan city, I see about 2000 guitars per year. I still can’t tell how much of a relief a neck has, until I put a straight edge over the fretboard, and place a feeler gauge under the straight edge. I have never met a guitar player that can tell me how much of a relief their neck has, just by playing the guitar, in playing position. Plus, as we all know, a neck relief is not something you set-up one time and forget about it. This means that the neck relief goes up and down, as time passes. That said, if a relief is set to zero, it only means that the relief will go into a backbow, whenever the environmental changes pull the neck into that direction. However, when a neck does have adequate relief, and the environmental changes make the neck bend in the negative direction, it hopefully has enough of a margin to not develop a backbow. This is just one reason, one of many, why it is my opinion that a good neck does need to be set up with adequate relief. Hope this makes sense.
@@GuitarQuackery First of all, if a highly skilled and accomplished guitar player tells me they don't ANY relief in their neck, I am not going to respond out of arrogance and tell them they are wrong. Second of all, a highly skilled and accomplished guitar player who wants zero relief in their guitar necks will come to me because they know I can make a neck, reinforced with carbon fiber, that will NEVER move, thereby eliminating the need for a truss rod and the need to adjust it every time the humidity levels change. Of course I know that technological advancements such as carbon neck fiber reinforcement are the bane of guitar techs since they eliminate a big part of their business, but that's progress.
Interestingly, a very accomplished guitar player is coming to my shop on Wednesday. While he is definitely an accomplished musician, I had to teach him how to put strings on his guitar. It is still my opinion that musicians are not technicians. I also think that only time will tell how the guitar necks that only have carbon fiber rods will age. We’ve seen space age material durability claims made before, in the guitar world. Ovation guitars were supposed to be indestructible. We’ve also seen carbon fiber guitars that were supposed to be indestructible. And yet, I have seen numerous examples of both of these, that have completely deteriorated, to the point that they were literally unfixable on any reasonable budget. I do not believe that there is such thing as a neck that is going to be forever straight. Everything will age, and as the second law of thermodynamics states, everything will fall apart. It’s just a matter of time. Also, once there is fret wear, in my experience, it changes how much relief is needed. Again, I hope there is no misunderstanding. I like the idea of carbon fiber reinforcements. But I believe that an adjustable truss rod is still needed. And, of course, the flipside of the argument is also true. If I make a guitar with a completely straight non-adjustable neck and an accomplished musician comes to me and tells me that they would like to see .006” relief, am I going to tell them that they are wrong?
@@GuitarQuackery I have a higher opinion of musicians. Out of curiosity, why would you watch this video given your deeply ingrained opinions about truss rods and carbon fiber reinforcement? Are you just trying to start an argument with someone?
Back at the Flatiron mandolin factory before the '96 move, I had to put steel truss rods into each neck. They were just straight rods that didn't have a curve bent into them. I do not know how efficient these TR were straight, but for the years I built all the necks, maple or mahogany, I never heard someone reporting any problems with underbow issues that couldn't have been corrected. Now, some luthiers feel there is totally no need for TRs what so ever. My mahogany A-5 neck has never needed tightening, so maybe there is truth to not needing a TR. Bob Shorthill. Neck assembly Flatiron Mandolin, Belgrade, MT, 1989--1996
Dan Erlewine did a repair video on an old guitar (Kay or Silvertone, I can't recall exactly) that didn't have a truss rod - he pulled off the fingerboard and installed carbon fiber rods, but still no truss rod. Driftwood Guitars uses the D-Tube - an interesting side note is the hollow ringing noise it generates. Anthony at Lucky Dog uses Purpleheart rods instead of carbon fiber, says they're even more rigid.
I am pretty sure you might be thinking of the repair he did on a Harmony H-44 Stratotone. The H-44 is a true “neck-through” design…..there is no dovetail or bolt-on joint where neck joins the body….the neck and body are one piece of wood….basically a canoe paddle with ears glued onto the sides. I don’t think a truss rod would function normally on that guitar design….although I’ve thought about it a lot since I own one and it is very difficult to get set up perfectly. The sustain, however, is incredible….basically like playing a lap-steel slung around your neck..
It is true Vigier's necks do not need a truss rod, but... 1- How they select, and stock woods for 3 years before use, makes their stash only filled with the most stable wood on the market. 2- The carbon rod is HUGE. It takes 10% of neck's total volume. 3- Neck's flatness is dead straight with a margin of error of a hundredth of a millimeter. Witch is pretty important as the neck will never ever bend.
Just bought a Yamaha Revstar Pro and had to adjust the neck slightly as it was a bit too streight (convex). I found it took some effort to adjust (loosen) the truss rod to get a bit of relief (for the reasons you stated) but can't believe the results! Best neck in my rather extensive collection of guitars! Thank you for this very informative video!
I use 1/2" square steel tube in my necks running from near the nut to the last fret on the fretboard. I've had a resonator from 7 years ago strung with heavy gauge strings (1st stg 16ga) with no perceptible movement
Ha, through my home screen in you tube today, suggested several videos, but yours was next to: On the Road with NDV: Paul Gilbert’s Mr. Big Road Rig, and in both presentation initial image, you look alike, glasses with dark frame, haircut style and hair length, just a situation, that seem interesting to share with you.
I really love your videos as a reference material. I watch them over and over anytime I need to be reminded about specifics or dive back down some rabbit whole and try and remember what I was thinking a year ago when I wrote something down. I deeply appreciate the value that you continue to bring to the entire instrument building community as well as the content creation community!
Every guitar I build has had CF strips from day one. Funny the only neck that back bowed so bad I had to pull the finger board and add the strips, was Honduras Mahogany wirhout CF strips. . Great info ,great video.
I'd love to hear more of your thoughts on laminated necks, especially ones with carbon fiber installed. I've always considered them very attractive with some builders making truly stunning 11+ ply necks
Sure they look cool, but all those different pieces of wood are going to move differently when the humidity levels change. And think about what's going to happen to the glue seams years down the road.
@@HighlineGuitars If you are so sure about this, maybe show some pictures of professionally and reputably made laminated necks that have visible seams. Like Hamer did as a 2 man team, they purposely opposed grain very carefully, making very stable necks. You can laminate with epoxy too, if you are worried about heat softening PVA glue.
If you make a laminated neck like that, it's more likely to be stable in the first place as long as you're placing the laminations correctly in the laminate. At that point, you could add CF, but it would be somewhat redundant as its extra stiffness wouldn't be actually resisting much since you now have a stable neck. But besides being a lot of extra work to make the laminate, your neck will get heavier as the % of adhesive increases with the number of laminates. In a lot of ways it's analogous to the pros and cons of a laminated rifle stock. Regarding seams, that's just not going to be an issue if you make the laminate properly, use the right adhesive, cure it well, etc. Epoxy will do most of the work preventing this from happening as long as someone is using kiln dried wood.
@@HighlineGuitarsto be fair, ive repaired a lot of old german guitars with laminated necks ( 1950s) and the only thing on those that was still intact was the laminated necks. Im not sure if the glue joint are a real concern there but the repair if something were to fail would be a real PITA😂
Here is my thought. I am customizing 1988 Casio PG380 synth guitars. High end strat with bolt on maple neck and Ebony fingerboard. I want to keep the maple necks that originally come with these. The ebony boards are on the thin side. I had to replace a badly worn fingerboard. Went with a thicker Ebony board and my own style of diamond MOP inlays. My first attempt at gluing it on did not go well. Next attempt is to redo the gluing part and discovered the one way truss rod was not working. Fixed it. Should have maybe replaced it with a two way ? I replaced the center truss rod wood filler cavity top with the Carbon Fiber. Was difficult because the truss channel is curved or bowed shaped and fit it accordingly. Milled it flush. NOW I am wondering if I should have left it sticking up and milled the bottom of the fingerboard down to the bottom of the fret tangs and THEN glued the board on ???. So now I am considering two 3mm X 6MM rods on each side sticking up to fit channels in the fingerboard. No way am I removing the center piece to do the first idea over, stuff is hard to work with. Next rebuild on another maybe. The neck and head drop on these when removing string tension is amazing.
I use two rectangle rods 2mm x 8mm along with a truss rod. It has worked out pretty good. I still have a few years of testing to go but it has been beneficial.
Great video. I began using CF strips in the same size shown in video in my electric 12 strings. My necks are rock maple as well. They are rock solid when it comes to staying in tune. The neck never moves from where it's set whatever the climate may be, even with Pyramid light gauge flatwound strings.
I built two electric mandolins, one of which was an octave mando. Neither one was built with a truss rod, but each had a double row of CF in them. The octave had to have a heavier string gauge set to keep it from being too "floppy sounding". The neck was a 5 piece lam of edge grain quarter sawn extremely hard wood. I used Gorilla glue and every clamp in my shop. The octave neck is as straight as the day it was first strung up. Same with the 14" scale fretboard mandolin.
Since this very informative video and discussion, did you build a neck without a truss rod, using carbon fiber rods to make it strong and stable enough? If yes, what kind of rods did you use and where did you place them? Is there a video?
Just put in an order with Parklane for a Roasted Quartersawn Flame Maple S-style neck with a '59 style truss-rod and CF reinforcement. Let's see how it turns out. Great video! Thanks for the info.
If you play with Reverend Willy's Mexican lottery strings, the ones with the .007' diameter E string which is seven pounds at pitch you would not even need any truss rod.
Thx for the metric measurements. I'm looking forward to your how to video building reinforced necks. Lot of necks get messed up, especially bass necks making a wavy mountain road. A luthier I know sets the rods slightly off center based on string tension. Battling string tension with 'string' tension like in the first Fly guitars was a nice idea for reduced space.
I wonder if putting 2 rods on the back of the neck instead under the fretboard would have the same effect in bending resistance? Saying all that i wonder why big guitars companies doesn't make some sort of parker fly style neck builds (wooden neck with 2 strips of CF and fiberglass on the back of the neck)? Hell, you don't have to use high strength, high modulus, high temperature curing epoxy and ovens, a hand layup or a vacuum bag could work.
Hello sir. It's not enough how much I thank you for this amazingly informative videos. I build my first guitar few days ago. Not perfect but it was a good start for me. You have been a master for me. Goe bless you🙏 You are a good person. Thank you. I shared couple of videos and played some stuff with the guitar. If you can watch them and share your thoughts, this would make me so happy. Thanks again.
I wish maple was available where I live, it seems like the perfect species for everything. The tropical woods we have to work with here usually require some thought if you want them to stay like you intended them to stay. I wonder how Warmoth gets away with selling unfinished goncalo alves necks with no carbon fiber rods, or scarier, goncalo alves with a bubinga fretboard, which is even oilier and doesn't like to be glued.
im not a guitar builder so my question is out of curiosity: is it fair assumption that big guitar companies are moving toward using reinforcement rods because theyre making so many guitars and so quickly, that the woods have not had enough time to properly season? I assume its this reason why we're also seeing a rise in using 'baked' woods. Again im just curious
Hey Chris. Here's a slightly different question. What about Titanium stiffening rods. I've read they increase resonance as well as increasing strength. Do you have experience or opinions on this. Thanks.
Both carbon fiber and titanium work equally well with neither offering a distinct advantage. The resonance claim is marketing nonsense. There's no proof.
@@HighlineGuitars Thanks. I suspected as much. Now, a further question. I hope I'm not being a nuisance. What about using two truss rods in a 12-string neck as per the Rickies? I gather Ibanez also use two truss rods on some of the wide neck guitars, six- and eight-stringers and 7- and 8-string regulars.
@@AnnaStafford-zh1sz Totally unnecessary, especially if you use stiffening rods. Also, two rods add a stupid amount of weight. Furthermore, the idea that one rod would adjust one side of the neck separately from the other is thoroughly messed up.
Hi Chris. Thank you as always for this and all your videos. I learn a ton from your channel. A question - do you have a preferred orientation for the carbon fiber rods that you install when do you install them? Instinct tells me vertical (1/8 channel protruding 1/4 into the neck) would provide more stiffness than a flat installation (1/8 deep and 1/4 wide). But from the stewmac site it appears they can be installed either way. Do you have a preference?
I recently received a neck that is unstable. This is just something for me to mess with. I am considering taking off the fretboard and reinforcing with carbon fiber. Do you think this is a potentially a usable fix for an unstable neck? I'd love to hear your thoughts.
your videos have been a blessing for me on my first build! Which is a 34-37" multiscale 5 string bass. (why start on easy mode- why not!) But I have a question, I'm using Red Ironbark for a neck-through. It is quatersawn, and slightly figured. It's Modulus of elasticity is 15-17 Gigapascals. which equates to 2.2 - 2.5M pounds per sq inch. So what would you do? with the strings and scale increasing the tension, but with a very strong wood. The fretboard is Messmate 9mm thick, and it's 2M Modulus of Elasticity. Appreciate your expertise
@@letz_getschwifty9785 With rods, I route a slot on each side of the truss rod and glue them in with epoxy. With a tapered D-tube, I would route a channel large enough to accommodate the structure and epoxy it into place. In both cases, the work is done before gluing on the fretboard.
Carbon fibres cheap (if you get it from the right spots....not stew mac). I like the idea of having something which doesn't acclimatise and warp when I spend so much time on getting a fret board as good as I can. For me its minimal effort and cost to chuck it in.
Use the same CF profile (6x4mm) was hesitant about cutting a slot so deep into the neck so I route a 2mm channel in the fret board also...easy on a CNC / better alignment and removes the need for pins.
Your videos are always food for thought, and often times helpful. I usually build from kits, so the neck is already done, but it does offer the idea of making my own necks, which if I decide to do, adding carbon fiber is at least a consideration. Thanks for the healthy meal to chew on!! :-)
There is One thing which occupied my mind about inserting carbon fiber in a guitar neck. If a guitar neck is too strong, there Might be a chance that the Trussrod will not be able to move when trying to adjust. I am not sure.
Yes, the neck could be too strong for the truss rod to do what you need. However, In my experience, that has never happened. Of course, the quality of the truss rod is important here.
Hi. Many thanks for the video. My question is: what do we have to lose if putting it on all necks? For example a 2 piece mahogany 24.75, 22 frets, 19mm 1st fret thickness neck, maybe it doesnt need CF, but why not putting them anyway?
I was watching your video on the Carbon. I am building a small 12 Fret 24 inch scale parlor guitar. I was thinking of using carbon in the neck but can only find the Round stock rods, Do you think those will work for neck support?
Round rods won't work. Try www.amazon.com/Guyker-Carbon-Fiber-Neck-380mm/dp/B083DZZ2QD?th=1 If you can't buy from Amazon, search for Guyker carbon fiber neck.
That CF supplier if most likely just a middleman, you could probably find CF half round tubes on aliexpress for very cheap. I think a cheap source of CF rail/strips is places that sell parts for RC airplane construction. I bet 3 CF strips would do the job in a guitar, maybe not a bass. I build guitars with aluminum necks that have a solid 1.25" halfround rod that makes up about 65% of the neck and it does fine on 6 and 12 string guitars in the 25.5 inch scale, I built a bass with 34" and it flexes too much to the point where there is about 0.04" max relief...so not very good.
They are an engineering firm with their own manufacturing facility. That facility is probably in China, I don’t know. At any rate their products are not available on AliExpress and I have never been able to find anything comparable on that site.
I really like how flatsawn wood looks like, I'd want to use flatsawn padouk for a fretboard. I don't really like how quarter sawn wood looks on the faces
Hi thanks does torified neck wood help or is this a low mod strength wood, I think we focus on the sound benefit but do we get the bonus of improvement with torified wood
@@HighlineGuitars may i ask why? Im still learning allot about repair n ive warch you channel for a long time i forget to mention it was for a 7 string neck
@@kristopherdavis5824 If stability is your concern, carbon fiber will do the trick and then some. Making a laminated neck as well won't add anything but extra work.
to me quartersawn is easiest explained by cutting a slab along the heart of the tree, and cutting that board in half at the heart. In some ways, quartersawn, is flatsawn, but it eliminates the heart of the tree and it can't be so big that the curvature of the tree lines may be visible, at least that's how I've understood it. A big tree is best for quartersawn
The 1st neck I built moves a lot (not a very stable climate here), always having to adjust the truss rod. It's a 6 string, 24.75", 5 piece mahogany, purpleheart, walnut with a flame maple fretboard. I did use CF rods in it. I'm not sure why it's so unstable, maybe the flame maple fretboard?
Maybe. However, using so many different species of wood could be the problem. Sure it looks cool, but Mahogany, Purpleheart, and Walnut react differently when the humidity changes suddenly. In my experience, laminated necks are unpredictable when more than one species of wood is used, even if the grain in each piece is oriented properly.
hey I had the assumption that if you had lines going up and down the faces it was quartersawn but you say it doesn't have to be, do you mean that in addition, these lines all need to be parallel as well to each other?
You can't take a flat sawn board and call it quarter sawn just by turning it 90°. A log that is quarter sawn is processed differently than a log that is flat sawn.
@@HighlineGuitars @Highline Guitars yes, the log is turned 90 degrees with every cut, right? But my question is how the wood differs, if you have a board with straight lines, paralel to each other and a quarter sawn board, what would be the difference? I think straight lines and paralel is the definition of quarter sawn. If they are not parallel (or just about) the piece of the tree is too big, as then the lines would get symmetrical
its hard to formulate the question, but as long as the faces of the board, so not the sides have lines going up and down, it's quartersawn, right? and the lines on the endgrain should not be on one side a little curved to the left and on the other side the other way around, because then you pass the heart of the tree, making it flatsawn again but just with quartersawn properties
Okay, as you know I'm a newbie to this so maybe this isn't even an issue, but if you have a truss rod in a neck with 1 or 2 of these very stiff rods, do you think there's a chance of anything weird happening over time if you DO end up having to use the truss rod to add relief or bow to a neck? Since the wood is less rigid, it seems like it wouldn't be "trying" (sorry, thats the best word I can come up with real quick) to bend back to its original shape as much, and the truss rod would be able to keep its tension better. With these carbon fiber rods, sure the neck is stiffer, but are those carbon rods going to be sort of fighting to get back to their original straight shape inside those channels? Or am I just overestimating how much of a struggle between various tensions this is...and it's really not a big deal.
Hi! Could you tell if there is any practical difference between leveling frets on your DIY jig versus Erlewine? I've bought some materials to build one of my own but suddenly there is one used for sale for around 400 bucks with dials..
Hello! 😊 Great as usual! Do you glue the carbon fiber in the neck! Like with epoxy? Curious about that. I myself glue them with very thin epoxy and have really good results but sometime I wonder if it would be as good not glued as the fit is very precise....
Just figured all figured necks on my guitars are roasted. But one roasted nonfigured neck induced warping after 15 years of being straight... One neck is carbon reinforced. It's increadibly stiff! Doesn't get enough relief with usual 6 strings (0.10). Didn't bother to induce bow with doubleaction trussrod. Just kept it low action. I would always take carbon fiber since it takes propeller warping to a minimum. Frets that are leveled flat will most likely stay flat with string tension over time. Mahogany necks on some Les Pauls I have show no moving for years. Haven't ever adjusted a trussrod. Go figure..
Just being anal here: Vigier's guitars indeed don't have a truss rod, opting for a massive plaque of carbon fiber. But it's not perfectly flat. They call it the 10/90 system because there's about 10% relief in it.
While I'm sure CF can provide the needed strength to eliminate the need for a truss rod, I don't think that I'd care for the lack of adjustment capabilities somewhere down the road. Probably for the same reason I don't care for neck-thru guitars... They lack options in the future and you're stuck with what you have.
Do you need a thing that's existed for 50 years, to make a thing that's existed for 1000 years work? Hmmm...I say we ask some of the people who used the thing for the first 950 years! (Not gonna Google how long guitars and carbon fiber have existed, just for a TH-cam comment. I could be a little out!)
Will a carbon fiber neck with no truss rod work? Yes. Been there - done that: th-cam.com/video/wCwyQBcP8Rs/w-d-xo.html Do you need to reinforce a wood neck that has a truss rod? No. Is the added stability of a reinforced neck worth it? only if you need it - IE: you have stability issues gig-ing out with your current axe.. Carbon fiber looks cool; weighs less; and doesn't bend - but costs more; is harder to cut, drill, and shape; and may not come in a suitable shape or size. Until I can come up with a carbon fiber combo that can match or beat a trapezoid profile on a wood neck, I'm sticking with wood and truss rod.
If you put a poly finish on the neck. This whole video is superfluous and moot. If you have a satin finish or unfinished neck this is appropriate. Polyurethane finishing supplants any worry of warping and heat changes unless of course the poly is wearing.
This study pretty much refutes claims that polyurethane seals wood and prevents moisture from warping wood: www.fpl.fs.usda.gov/documnts/fplrp/fplrp462.pdf
@@HighlineGuitars when I click on it. It’s not found. I’ve not in years seen very many finished guitars with warping. I had a lakland unfinished that warped. It’s like saying leaving a finished cup in the sun over year will warp the cup. While it “could happen” it’s not a high probability. The same for guitars. There are finished guitars from the 60’s that are in pristine condition. I have found that when satin finishes are applied this happens. However poly adds an extra 2mm of thickness if applied correctly. So you may get warping in 15 or 20 years. However that’s a good life for guitar wood.
@@HighlineGuitars this document has varying scenarios. My buddy has a warmoth from the 80’s no rods. Neck is the same and he toured vigorously. I think the whole guitar neck/body argument is overblown. If you are buying a $1500 fender and you get 15 years out of that without the neck warping, you did a great job. $1000 dollars a year in bass preservation.
@@jamesreynolds4487 Anecdotes are fun, but useless. Bear in mind that my focus is on the business of making guitars. I can’t base my business strategy on opinions and stories.
I probably own and play two dozen guitars of various make and model, I have never had a neck warp, ever. Truss rod adjustments when I first set up the guitar, after that nada. Just my personal experience.
@@nickf9392 That's good! I'd like to think providing the guitars stays in similar humidity and temperature environment you shouldn't have a problem. But for players who travel will experience element changes like this which can influence the neck to move a lot. Hence why Roasted Maple has been a great alternative as its very stable against humidity changes. Also, worth noting that older vintage guitars show how necks can warp under string tension due to being under pressure for a long time.
@@bleh8789 I would agree if you live in your Hometown and you've been there for years and years and years and you're not planning on going anywhere I don't think it's necessary to have carbon fiber rods unless you're in a 8 string or a 7 string guitar.. But if you move up-and-down a different climates and Google costs country as a touring musician you definitely have some kind of stability.. Let's some carbon fiber reinforcements. I guess unless your guitar Has a roasted neck.
It's like asking if you need electricity.
Of course you do because we have found that to be better than not.
All ima say is, I live in Indiana, we go from no humidity and cold temps to full humidity and high temps day to night, my Schecter C-7 Silver Mountain was in it's case before I had my AC going while the humidity did it's ups and downs fore about 2 weeks, got it out and it was in perfect tuning. Never had a guitar this stable in my life. it has the 3 pc mahogany neck with 2 carbon fiber reinforcement rods. So yes, you 100% NEED them.
Here we have extremely hard woods, so hard that truss rods cannot bend the neck, which, of course, defeats the purpose of having a truss rod in the first place. So, when I use native woods, I often go truss-less. My question is: Why install a truss rod and reinforcement carbon fibers instead of choosing a harder material, like a harder wood?
Tradition.
My main basses for 26 years are Zons - carbon fiber composite necks with no truss rod. They're just as perfect now as they were a generation ago. \m/
Michael Manring approved :)
10:02 The only downside of making a guitar with carbon fiber reinforcement without a truss rod is that you have to shape the relief directly on the fretboard itself. I believe Vigier guitars do this.
@@Argentuza It’s not a problem if you don’t want relief.
@@HighlineGuitars As a guitar player, it's my understanding that a completely flat fretboard would cause significant buzzing. Most guitar manufacturers recommend having some relief in the neck to avoid this. I must admit, your response surprised me.
@@Argentuza Guitar manufacturers need to crank out guitars to be profitable. As a result, they rely on relief to ensure their guitars don’t buzz because it’s fast, easy, and cheap. Small shop luthiers are able to invest the time needed to achieve buzz-free, low action setups on guitars with flat necks. Using relief to eliminate string buzz is the lazy way to do it.
@@HighlineGuitars Now I understand what you meant, thank you for your time and responses! 👍
Just wanted to mention, carbon fibre actually has an elastic modulus 18x higher than hard maple! (228 vs 12.6 GPa)
I've moved to using the carbon fiber rods on all of my necks. Its not a ton of extra work and I feel it makes all of them just that much more stable. Excellent vid!
I have built four or five telecaster and Stratocaster necks using quarter sawn rock maple with no trust rod or stiffing rods at all. I like a very thick neck so I use a 1 inch router bit to shape the back of my neck. It’s basically flat from the heel to the head of the guitar on the very bottom centerline.I’ve never had one of them move even an iota. Best Playing necks I’ve ever had.
beginner guitarist here, dont think i'll ever build a guitar but it was super intersting to listen, instant sub !
The issue I'm having, with the idea of building necks with carbon fiber replacing adjustable truss rods, is the fact that a good neck needs to have a relief, on spec. The spec will depend on some factors, including fret wear. However, with a non-adjustable carbon fiber rod (or rods) one cannot control the amount of relief. Then there is also the issue of the test of time, which we just have to patiently wait for the verdict on how these necks age.
What about players who don't want any relief? Also, carbon fiber can be used along with a truss rod, which allows for adjustment of relief. Finally, the purpose of carbon fiber reinforcement is to ensure stability today, tomorrow, and decades into the future.
I was strictly referring to carbon fiber rods being used as a complete replacement for the truss rod. I have no concerns about carbon fiber rods being used in addition to the adjustable truss rod.
Regarding the players who do not want any relief, it is my experience that they cannot explain to me why it is that their guitar will play better without any relief.
Perhaps the following analogy helps explain my point of view.
To a guitar tech, a guitar-playing customer is what a patient is to a doctor. The patient should not be telling the doctor which medications they want.
As a guitar repair technician, in a big metropolitan city, I see about 2000 guitars per year. I still can’t tell how much of a relief a neck has, until I put a straight edge over the fretboard, and place a feeler gauge under the straight edge.
I have never met a guitar player that can tell me how much of a relief their neck has, just by playing the guitar, in playing position.
Plus, as we all know, a neck relief is not something you set-up one time and forget about it. This means that the neck relief goes up and down, as time passes.
That said, if a relief is set to zero, it only means that the relief will go into a backbow, whenever the environmental changes pull the neck into that direction.
However, when a neck does have adequate relief, and the environmental changes make the neck bend in the negative direction, it hopefully has enough of a margin to not develop a backbow.
This is just one reason, one of many, why it is my opinion that a good neck does need to be set up with adequate relief.
Hope this makes sense.
@@GuitarQuackery First of all, if a highly skilled and accomplished guitar player tells me they don't ANY relief in their neck, I am not going to respond out of arrogance and tell them they are wrong. Second of all, a highly skilled and accomplished guitar player who wants zero relief in their guitar necks will come to me because they know I can make a neck, reinforced with carbon fiber, that will NEVER move, thereby eliminating the need for a truss rod and the need to adjust it every time the humidity levels change. Of course I know that technological advancements such as carbon neck fiber reinforcement are the bane of guitar techs since they eliminate a big part of their business, but that's progress.
Interestingly, a very accomplished guitar player is coming to my shop on Wednesday. While he is definitely an accomplished musician, I had to teach him how to put strings on his guitar.
It is still my opinion that musicians are not technicians.
I also think that only time will tell how the guitar necks that only have carbon fiber rods will age.
We’ve seen space age material durability claims made before, in the guitar world.
Ovation guitars were supposed to be indestructible. We’ve also seen carbon fiber guitars that were supposed to be indestructible.
And yet, I have seen numerous examples of both of these, that have completely deteriorated, to the point that they were literally unfixable on any reasonable budget.
I do not believe that there is such thing as a neck that is going to be forever straight. Everything will age, and as the second law of thermodynamics states, everything will fall apart. It’s just a matter of time.
Also, once there is fret wear, in my experience, it changes how much relief is needed.
Again, I hope there is no misunderstanding. I like the idea of carbon fiber reinforcements. But I believe that an adjustable truss rod is still needed.
And, of course, the flipside of the argument is also true.
If I make a guitar with a completely straight non-adjustable neck and an accomplished musician comes to me and tells me that they would like to see .006” relief, am I going to tell them that they are wrong?
@@GuitarQuackery I have a higher opinion of musicians. Out of curiosity, why would you watch this video given your deeply ingrained opinions about truss rods and carbon fiber reinforcement? Are you just trying to start an argument with someone?
Back at the Flatiron mandolin factory before the '96 move, I had to put steel truss rods into each neck. They were just straight rods that didn't have a curve bent into them. I do not know how efficient these TR were straight, but for the years I built all the necks, maple or mahogany, I never heard someone reporting any problems with underbow issues that couldn't have been corrected. Now, some luthiers feel there is totally no need for TRs what so ever. My mahogany A-5 neck has never needed tightening, so maybe there is truth to not needing a TR. Bob Shorthill. Neck assembly Flatiron Mandolin, Belgrade, MT, 1989--1996
Dan Erlewine did a repair video on an old guitar (Kay or Silvertone, I can't recall exactly) that didn't have a truss rod - he pulled off the fingerboard and installed carbon fiber rods, but still no truss rod. Driftwood Guitars uses the D-Tube - an interesting side note is the hollow ringing noise it generates. Anthony at Lucky Dog uses Purpleheart rods instead of carbon fiber, says they're even more rigid.
I am pretty sure you might be thinking of the repair he did on a Harmony H-44 Stratotone. The H-44 is a true “neck-through” design…..there is no dovetail or bolt-on joint where neck joins the body….the neck and body are one piece of wood….basically a canoe paddle with ears glued onto the sides. I don’t think a truss rod would function normally on that guitar design….although I’ve thought about it a lot since I own one and it is very difficult to get set up perfectly. The sustain, however, is incredible….basically like playing a lap-steel slung around your neck..
I need a jazz bass neck with the type of wood you’re talking about with a CB rod
It is true Vigier's necks do not need a truss rod, but...
1- How they select, and stock woods for 3 years before use, makes their stash only filled with the most stable wood on the market.
2- The carbon rod is HUGE. It takes 10% of neck's total volume.
3- Neck's flatness is dead straight with a margin of error of a hundredth of a millimeter. Witch is pretty important as the neck will never ever bend.
I use 2mm x 6mm strips on their edge either side of the truss rod on slab cut Necks. So cheap & very effective
I wouldn't say necessary, but a lot would depend on the neck timber.
Just bought a Yamaha Revstar Pro and had to adjust the neck slightly as it was a bit too streight (convex). I found it took some effort to adjust (loosen) the truss rod to get a bit of relief (for the reasons you stated) but can't believe the results! Best neck in my rather extensive collection of guitars! Thank you for this very informative video!
Great video!
What glue can I use for carbon fiber on wood?
Epoxy. CA glue.
I use 1/2" square steel tube in my necks running from near the nut to the last fret on the fretboard. I've had a resonator from 7 years ago strung with heavy gauge strings (1st stg 16ga) with no perceptible movement
Intresting idea. Is that in addition or in stead of a truss rod?
@@raccoon6072 Instead of. Look up Dixie Michelle on youtube. She did this with a lot of success. Her last video was on the complete process
Use them in all my necks even the laminate ones.
Ha, through my home screen in you tube today, suggested several videos, but yours was next to: On the Road with NDV: Paul Gilbert’s Mr. Big Road Rig, and in both presentation initial image, you look alike, glasses with dark frame, haircut style and hair length, just a situation, that seem interesting to share with you.
I really love your videos as a reference material. I watch them over and over anytime I need to be reminded about specifics or dive back down some rabbit whole and try and remember what I was thinking a year ago when I wrote something down. I deeply appreciate the value that you continue to bring to the entire instrument building community as well as the content creation community!
i am guessing yes it makes a ton of diff
Every guitar I build has had CF strips from day one. Funny the only neck that back bowed so bad I had to pull the finger board and add the strips, was Honduras Mahogany wirhout CF strips. . Great info ,great video.
I run a ribbon of CF fibres epoxied underneath the TR from the heel to the 5th fret -- the strength of CF is in tension.
Should try the ribbon on either side of the trussrood, more strength standing up than laying down.
i do know that a carbon fiber shell over the back of my neck feels nice to play
I'd love to hear more of your thoughts on laminated necks, especially ones with carbon fiber installed. I've always considered them very attractive with some builders making truly stunning 11+ ply necks
Sure they look cool, but all those different pieces of wood are going to move differently when the humidity levels change. And think about what's going to happen to the glue seams years down the road.
@@HighlineGuitars If you are so sure about this, maybe show some pictures of professionally and reputably made laminated necks that have visible seams. Like Hamer did as a 2 man team, they purposely opposed grain very carefully, making very stable necks. You can laminate with epoxy too, if you are worried about heat softening PVA glue.
If you make a laminated neck like that, it's more likely to be stable in the first place as long as you're placing the laminations correctly in the laminate. At that point, you could add CF, but it would be somewhat redundant as its extra stiffness wouldn't be actually resisting much since you now have a stable neck.
But besides being a lot of extra work to make the laminate, your neck will get heavier as the % of adhesive increases with the number of laminates. In a lot of ways it's analogous to the pros and cons of a laminated rifle stock.
Regarding seams, that's just not going to be an issue if you make the laminate properly, use the right adhesive, cure it well, etc. Epoxy will do most of the work preventing this from happening as long as someone is using kiln dried wood.
@@HighlineGuitarsto be fair, ive repaired a lot of old german guitars with laminated necks ( 1950s) and the only thing on those that was still intact was the laminated necks. Im not sure if the glue joint are a real concern there but the repair if something were to fail would be a real PITA😂
Here is my thought. I am customizing 1988 Casio PG380 synth guitars. High end strat with bolt on maple neck and Ebony fingerboard.
I want to keep the maple necks that originally come with these. The ebony boards are on the thin side. I had to replace a badly worn fingerboard. Went with a thicker Ebony board and my own style of diamond MOP inlays. My first attempt at gluing it on did not go well. Next attempt is to redo the gluing part and discovered the one way truss rod was not working. Fixed it. Should have maybe replaced it with a two way ?
I replaced the center truss rod wood filler cavity top with the Carbon Fiber. Was difficult because the truss channel is curved or bowed shaped and fit it accordingly. Milled it flush. NOW I am wondering if I should have left it sticking up and milled the bottom of the fingerboard down to the bottom of the fret tangs and THEN glued the board on ???. So now I am considering two 3mm X 6MM rods on each side sticking up to fit channels in the fingerboard. No way am I removing the center piece to do the first idea over, stuff is hard to work with. Next rebuild on another maybe.
The neck and head drop on these when removing string tension is amazing.
Another great video!
Glad you like them!
Great video. You've answered a number of things that I was wondering about. Thanks.
I use two rectangle rods 2mm x 8mm along with a truss rod. It has worked out pretty good. I still have a few years of testing to go but it has been beneficial.
I sell the rods and router bit on ebay by the way
¿can you use aluminum Duralumin non calibrable rods?
Great video. I began using CF strips in the same size shown in video in my electric 12 strings. My necks are rock maple as well. They are rock solid when it comes to staying in tune. The neck never moves from where it's set whatever the climate may be, even with Pyramid light gauge flatwound strings.
I built two electric mandolins, one of which was an octave mando. Neither one was built with a truss rod, but each had a double row of CF in them. The octave had to have a heavier string gauge set to keep it from being too "floppy sounding". The neck was a 5 piece lam of edge grain quarter sawn extremely hard wood. I used Gorilla glue and every clamp in my shop. The octave neck is as straight as the day it was first strung up. Same with the 14" scale fretboard mandolin.
Since this very informative video and discussion, did you build a neck without a truss rod, using carbon fiber rods to make it strong and stable enough? If yes, what kind of rods did you use and where did you place them? Is there a video?
Thank you.
Just put in an order with Parklane for a Roasted Quartersawn Flame Maple S-style neck with a '59 style truss-rod and CF reinforcement. Let's see how it turns out.
Great video! Thanks for the info.
If you play with Reverend Willy's Mexican lottery strings, the ones with the .007' diameter E string which is seven pounds at pitch you would not even need any truss rod.
Thx for the metric measurements. I'm looking forward to your how to video building reinforced necks. Lot of necks get messed up, especially bass necks making a wavy mountain road. A luthier I know sets the rods slightly off center based on string tension. Battling string tension with 'string' tension like in the first Fly guitars was a nice idea for reduced space.
I wonder if putting 2 rods on the back of the neck instead under the fretboard would have the same effect in bending resistance?
Saying all that i wonder why big guitars companies doesn't make some sort of parker fly style neck builds (wooden neck with 2 strips of CF and fiberglass on the back of the neck)? Hell, you don't have to use high strength, high modulus, high temperature curing epoxy and ovens, a hand layup or a vacuum bag could work.
Hello sir. It's not enough how much I thank you for this amazingly informative videos. I build my first guitar few days ago. Not perfect but it was a good start for me. You have been a master for me. Goe bless you🙏 You are a good person. Thank you. I shared couple of videos and played some stuff with the guitar. If you can watch them and share your thoughts, this would make me so happy. Thanks again.
I wish maple was available where I live, it seems like the perfect species for everything. The tropical woods we have to work with here usually require some thought if you want them to stay like you intended them to stay. I wonder how Warmoth gets away with selling unfinished goncalo alves necks with no carbon fiber rods, or scarier, goncalo alves with a bubinga fretboard, which is even oilier and doesn't like to be glued.
im not a guitar builder so my question is out of curiosity: is it fair assumption that big guitar companies are moving toward using reinforcement rods because theyre making so many guitars and so quickly, that the woods have not had enough time to properly season? I assume its this reason why we're also seeing a rise in using 'baked' woods. Again im just curious
Real guitar companies don't use wet wood - period. Baked wood is harder/stiffer/sometimes prettier.
Hey Chris. Here's a slightly different question. What about Titanium stiffening rods. I've read they increase resonance as well as increasing strength. Do you have experience or opinions on this. Thanks.
Both carbon fiber and titanium work equally well with neither offering a distinct advantage. The resonance claim is marketing nonsense. There's no proof.
@@HighlineGuitars Thanks. I suspected as much. Now, a further question. I hope I'm not being a nuisance. What about using two truss rods in a 12-string neck as per the Rickies? I gather Ibanez also use two truss rods on some of the wide neck guitars, six- and eight-stringers and 7- and 8-string regulars.
@@AnnaStafford-zh1sz Totally unnecessary, especially if you use stiffening rods. Also, two rods add a stupid amount of weight. Furthermore, the idea that one rod would adjust one side of the neck separately from the other is thoroughly messed up.
@@HighlineGuitars That's good to know. I will yield to your greater experience and knowledge.
I use them because my necks deal with 250, sometimes 280 pounds of tension.
That stress shouldn't be handled by the truss rod alone
Hi Chris. Thank you as always for this and all your videos. I learn a ton from your channel. A question - do you have a preferred orientation for the carbon fiber rods that you install when do you install them? Instinct tells me vertical (1/8 channel protruding 1/4 into the neck) would provide more stiffness than a flat installation (1/8 deep and 1/4 wide). But from the stewmac site it appears they can be installed either way. Do you have a preference?
No preference.
Didnt know professor Emet Brown was a luthier 😎👊🏻
GREAT SCOTT!!
I recently received a neck that is unstable. This is just something for me to mess with. I am considering taking off the fretboard and reinforcing with carbon fiber. Do you think this is a potentially a usable fix for an unstable neck?
I'd love to hear your thoughts.
I wouldn't waste my time.
your videos have been a blessing for me on my first build! Which is a 34-37" multiscale 5 string bass. (why start on easy mode- why not!)
But I have a question, I'm using Red Ironbark for a neck-through. It is quatersawn, and slightly figured. It's Modulus of elasticity is 15-17 Gigapascals. which equates to 2.2 - 2.5M pounds per sq inch.
So what would you do? with the strings and scale increasing the tension, but with a very strong wood.
The fretboard is Messmate 9mm thick, and it's 2M Modulus of Elasticity.
Appreciate your expertise
I would reinforce it with carbon fiber. No reason not to.
@@HighlineGuitars thanks for the reply! I really appreciate it.
Would carbon rods help against things like heel hump you can get in guitars like archtop styles?
Rods? Probably not. Tapered D-tubes? You bet!
@@HighlineGuitars Thanks so much for taking the time to get back! If you wouldn't mind, how would you fit them?
@@letz_getschwifty9785 With rods, I route a slot on each side of the truss rod and glue them in with epoxy. With a tapered D-tube, I would route a channel large enough to accommodate the structure and epoxy it into place. In both cases, the work is done before gluing on the fretboard.
@@HighlineGuitars Star! Much appreciated, thank you for helping me out! ✌️
Carbon fibres cheap (if you get it from the right spots....not stew mac). I like the idea of having something which doesn't acclimatise and warp when I spend so much time on getting a fret board as good as I can. For me its minimal effort and cost to chuck it in.
Please, where to buy cheap carbon fiber rods for guitar? Thanks
Use the same CF profile (6x4mm) was hesitant about cutting a slot so deep into the neck so I route a 2mm channel in the fret board also...easy on a CNC / better alignment and removes the need for pins.
Do you think carbon fiber or titanium would be preferable? I’ve read that it contributed to resonance better than other reinforcements.
Don't go by what you hear from others. Go by what is proven. I seriously doubt you would be able to tell the difference.
Since carbon fiber stiffens the neck, does it reduce the effectiveness of the truss rod?
It can, but as long as you use a high quality truss rod, it will still be effective. It just takes more torque to make an adjustment.
Interesting video . I would like to know if such rods from Carbon Fiber are installed by their luthiers in the necks of classical guitars ?
Your videos are always food for thought, and often times helpful. I usually build from kits, so the neck is already done, but it does offer the idea of making my own necks, which if I decide to do, adding carbon fiber is at least a consideration. Thanks for the healthy meal to chew on!! :-)
Thank you for the useful information. What section and length of the carbon rod do you use in the bass necks?
I buy 48" long, 1/4" tall, and 1/8" wide strips and cut them to the length I need.
@@HighlineGuitars Thank you!
thank you great info
There is One thing which occupied my mind about inserting carbon fiber in a guitar neck. If a guitar neck is too strong, there Might be a chance that the Trussrod will not be able to move when trying to adjust. I am not sure.
Yes, the neck could be too strong for the truss rod to do what you need. However, In my experience, that has never happened. Of course, the quality of the truss rod is important here.
Hi. Many thanks for the video. My question is: what do we have to lose if putting it on all necks? For example a 2 piece mahogany 24.75, 22 frets, 19mm 1st fret thickness neck, maybe it doesnt need CF, but why not putting them anyway?
That's what I said at th-cam.com/video/vYUYc_9ey1c/w-d-xo.html
I was watching your video on the Carbon. I am building a small 12 Fret 24 inch scale parlor guitar. I was thinking of using carbon in the neck but can only find the Round stock rods, Do you think those will work for neck support?
Round rods won't work. Try www.amazon.com/Guyker-Carbon-Fiber-Neck-380mm/dp/B083DZZ2QD?th=1
If you can't buy from Amazon, search for Guyker carbon fiber neck.
That CF supplier if most likely just a middleman, you could probably find CF half round tubes on aliexpress for very cheap. I think a cheap source of CF rail/strips is places that sell parts for RC airplane construction. I bet 3 CF strips would do the job in a guitar, maybe not a bass. I build guitars with aluminum necks that have a solid 1.25" halfround rod that makes up about 65% of the neck and it does fine on 6 and 12 string guitars in the 25.5 inch scale, I built a bass with 34" and it flexes too much to the point where there is about 0.04" max relief...so not very good.
They are an engineering firm with their own manufacturing facility. That facility is probably in China, I don’t know. At any rate their products are not available on AliExpress and I have never been able to find anything comparable on that site.
I really like how flatsawn wood looks like, I'd want to use flatsawn padouk for a fretboard.
I don't really like how quarter sawn wood looks on the faces
Some woods just look better flatsawn like zebrawood. Although, I like the padauk quartersawn personally.
Hi thanks does torified neck wood help or is this a low mod strength wood, I think we focus on the sound benefit but do we get the bonus of improvement with torified wood
Torrified and quarter sawn; the ultimate neck wood.
What is your opinion on a 3 peice maple laminated neck with carbon fiber rods?
Unnecessary.
@@HighlineGuitars may i ask why?
Im still learning allot about repair n ive warch you channel for a long time i forget to mention it was for a 7 string neck
@@kristopherdavis5824 If stability is your concern, carbon fiber will do the trick and then some. Making a laminated neck as well won't add anything but extra work.
@@HighlineGuitars ah thank you
Great video Chris, thank you. What are your thoughts re: CF for evening out tone, dead spots, etc?
I don't rely on CF to fix either. I control tone with pickup design and eliminate dead spots by doing a proper fret job.
Thank you for the great info! Best Regards and Best Wishes!
to me quartersawn is easiest explained by cutting a slab along the heart of the tree, and cutting that board in half at the heart. In some ways, quartersawn, is flatsawn, but it eliminates the heart of the tree and it can't be so big that the curvature of the tree lines may be visible, at least that's how I've understood it. A big tree is best for quartersawn
The 1st neck I built moves a lot (not a very stable climate here), always having to adjust the truss rod. It's a 6 string, 24.75", 5 piece mahogany, purpleheart, walnut with a flame maple fretboard. I did use CF rods in it.
I'm not sure why it's so unstable, maybe the flame maple fretboard?
Maybe. However, using so many different species of wood could be the problem. Sure it looks cool, but Mahogany, Purpleheart, and Walnut react differently when the humidity changes suddenly. In my experience, laminated necks are unpredictable when more than one species of wood is used, even if the grain in each piece is oriented properly.
Chris, where do you get your carbon fiber rod?
www.amazon.com/dp/B083F1GQ47?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1
@@HighlineGuitars Thanks!
hey I had the assumption that if you had lines going up and down the faces it was quartersawn but you say it doesn't have to be, do you mean that in addition, these lines all need to be parallel
as well to each other?
You can't take a flat sawn board and call it quarter sawn just by turning it 90°. A log that is quarter sawn is processed differently than a log that is flat sawn.
@@HighlineGuitars @Highline Guitars yes, the log is turned 90 degrees with every cut, right? But my question is how the wood differs, if you have a board with straight lines, paralel to each other and a quarter sawn board, what would be the difference? I think straight lines and paralel is the definition of quarter sawn. If they are not parallel (or just about) the piece of the tree is too big, as then the lines would get symmetrical
@@thijs199 Flat sawn grain tends to curve more than truly quarter-sawn wood.
its hard to formulate the question, but as long as the faces of the board, so not the sides have lines going up and down, it's quartersawn, right? and the lines on the endgrain should not be on one side a little curved to the left and on the other side the other way around, because then you pass the heart of the tree, making it flatsawn again but just with quartersawn properties
@@HighlineGuitars yes I know, but I think the core of my question didn't quite make it, but no worries.
Okay, as you know I'm a newbie to this so maybe this isn't even an issue, but if you have a truss rod in a neck with 1 or 2 of these very stiff rods, do you think there's a chance of anything weird happening over time if you DO end up having to use the truss rod to add relief or bow to a neck? Since the wood is less rigid, it seems like it wouldn't be "trying" (sorry, thats the best word I can come up with real quick) to bend back to its original shape as much, and the truss rod would be able to keep its tension better. With these carbon fiber rods, sure the neck is stiffer, but are those carbon rods going to be sort of fighting to get back to their original straight shape inside those channels? Or am I just overestimating how much of a struggle between various tensions this is...and it's really not a big deal.
You're overestimating. As long as you use a high-quality truss rod, it'll do the job, no problem. Cheap truss rods will break.
@@HighlineGuitars sweet thank you so much.
In your intro I think you missed an opportunity to hold up a bent carrot. 🤣
Hi!
Could you tell if there is any practical difference between leveling frets on your DIY jig versus Erlewine? I've bought some materials to build one of my own but suddenly there is one used for sale for around 400 bucks with dials..
I got rid of it years ago as I found it a PITA and useless.
@@HighlineGuitars Do you mean tilting it upright is useless idea and it's just an exspensive support?
@@Stu66orn I mean rotating a flat sawn board doesn't make it quarter sawn.
@@Stu66orn Basically. I think it's fine for those who just do repairs, but not really necessary for builders of new instruments.
@@HighlineGuitars
Thank you for your reply! Did you use calipers or are they just a gimmick?
Hello! 😊 Great as usual! Do you glue the carbon fiber in the neck! Like with epoxy? Curious about that. I myself glue them with very thin epoxy and have really good results but sometime I wonder if it would be as good not glued as the fit is very precise....
I epoxy mine as well.
I literally choked on my tea when you said Fiber in Diet....ROFL
Why is scarfing and multi-piece such a sacrilege to so many? Thats how to make a strong and straight neck and headstock.
Because a lot of builders do them wrong without realizing it.
Do you need air? Water? No, nothing wrong with dying. LOL.
Just figured all figured necks on my guitars are roasted. But one roasted nonfigured neck induced warping after 15 years of being straight...
One neck is carbon reinforced. It's increadibly stiff! Doesn't get enough relief with usual 6 strings (0.10). Didn't bother to induce bow with doubleaction trussrod. Just kept it low action.
I would always take carbon fiber since it takes propeller warping to a minimum. Frets that are leveled flat will most likely stay flat with string tension over time.
Mahogany necks on some Les Pauls I have show no moving for years. Haven't ever adjusted a trussrod. Go figure..
Before watching the video Ill go ahead and say: In some cases. Depend on your wood and construction.
Right?
Now I'll watch :)
Just being anal here: Vigier's guitars indeed don't have a truss rod, opting for a massive plaque of carbon fiber. But it's not perfectly flat. They call it the 10/90 system because there's about 10% relief in it.
While I'm sure CF can provide the needed strength to eliminate the need for a truss rod, I don't think that I'd care for the lack of adjustment capabilities somewhere down the road. Probably for the same reason I don't care for neck-thru guitars... They lack options in the future and you're stuck with what you have.
Only when I stick it in dark places.
Do you need a thing that's existed for 50 years, to make a thing that's existed for 1000 years work? Hmmm...I say we ask some of the people who used the thing for the first 950 years!
(Not gonna Google how long guitars and carbon fiber have existed, just for a TH-cam comment. I could be a little out!)
Yeah! To heck with making things better!!
Now to eliminate the wood...
Will a carbon fiber neck with no truss rod work? Yes. Been there - done that: th-cam.com/video/wCwyQBcP8Rs/w-d-xo.html
Do you need to reinforce a wood neck that has a truss rod? No.
Is the added stability of a reinforced neck worth it? only if you need it - IE: you have stability issues gig-ing out with your current axe..
Carbon fiber looks cool; weighs less; and doesn't bend - but costs more; is harder to cut, drill, and shape; and may not come in a suitable shape or size.
Until I can come up with a carbon fiber combo that can match or beat a trapezoid profile on a wood neck, I'm sticking with wood and truss rod.
If you put a poly finish on the neck. This whole video is superfluous and moot. If you have a satin finish or unfinished neck this is appropriate. Polyurethane finishing supplants any worry of warping and heat changes unless of course the poly is wearing.
This study pretty much refutes claims that polyurethane seals wood and prevents moisture from warping wood: www.fpl.fs.usda.gov/documnts/fplrp/fplrp462.pdf
@@HighlineGuitars when I click on it. It’s not found. I’ve not in years seen very many finished guitars with warping. I had a lakland unfinished that warped. It’s like saying leaving a finished cup in the sun over year will warp the cup. While it “could happen” it’s not a high probability. The same for guitars. There are finished guitars from the 60’s that are in pristine condition. I have found that when satin finishes are applied this happens. However poly adds an extra 2mm of thickness if applied correctly. So you may get warping in 15 or 20 years. However that’s a good life for guitar wood.
@@jamesreynolds4487 Try this link: www.govinfo.gov/app/details/GOVPUB-A13-PURL-LPS52735
Click PDF under Download on the left side of the page.
@@HighlineGuitars this document has varying scenarios. My buddy has a warmoth from the 80’s no rods. Neck is the same and he toured vigorously. I think the whole guitar neck/body argument is overblown. If you are buying a $1500 fender and you get 15 years out of that without the neck warping, you did a great job. $1000 dollars a year in bass preservation.
@@jamesreynolds4487 Anecdotes are fun, but useless. Bear in mind that my focus is on the business of making guitars. I can’t base my business strategy on opinions and stories.
I'm just guessing ahead of time: "Um, NO."
I probably own and play two dozen guitars of various make and model, I have never had a neck warp, ever. Truss rod adjustments when I first set up the guitar, after that nada. Just my personal experience.
@@nickf9392 That's good! I'd like to think providing the guitars stays in similar humidity and temperature environment you shouldn't have a problem. But for players who travel will experience element changes like this which can influence the neck to move a lot. Hence why Roasted Maple has been a great alternative as its very stable against humidity changes.
Also, worth noting that older vintage guitars show how necks can warp under string tension due to being under pressure for a long time.
No you don't. You don't need carbon, titanium or roasted nuts, all marketing bs for dummies. Does it help, yes very little, it's negligible.
it always seemed like something best suited for touring musicians rather than a necessity.
@@bleh8789 I would agree if you live in your Hometown and you've been there for years and years and years and you're not planning on going anywhere I don't think it's necessary to have carbon fiber rods unless you're in a 8 string or a 7 string guitar.. But if you move up-and-down a different climates and Google costs country as a touring musician you definitely have some kind of stability.. Let's some carbon fiber reinforcements. I guess unless your guitar Has a roasted neck.
I wish you would build a 5 peice laminate neck from walnut/cf/walnut/cf/walnut. Similar to vigier with no truss rod
I'd much rather make a one-piece Walnut neck with carbon fiber reinforcement.