I'm a longtime subaru fan, and I fear for them in the coming EV transition. Everything that makes them unique and compelling as a brand won't meaningfully carry over to an EV: cheap, uber-practical cars (one of the few affordable wagons in the outback) that punch way above their price in snow and off-road performance thanks to exceptional mechanical AWD and low center of gravity from their boxer ICE engines. They've really staked their company on mastery of those key technologies and not much else. And now they're going to be forced to leave them behind. Low center of mass is inherent to EV architecture, and good AWD comes down to an extra motor and good software. As a smaller company, they also don't have the same capacity as other OEMs to re-tool and design whole new electric platforms from scratch. Which is why a rebadged Toyota is probably their best option to get a toehold in the market. But as you guys point out, on paper it doesn't offer anything that other OEMs can't do better or cheaper. I really don't know where they go from here.
@@conrado800 It’s not that simple. Retrofitting an ICE vehicle to an EV would result in a lackluster vehicle. They need to build an EV from the ground up. This is what is being done with all of the successful EVs.
They still have some other brand values, if anyone there is paying attention. Function over form. Greenhouse glass instead of the miserable little tanks everyone else designs. Uber-low center of gravity while retaining ground clearance - do it even better than the other EVs. Right-sized wheel overall diameter (impacts passenger space) instead of fashion statements. But most important, don't make it look like a RAV4!
My dad got a new Prius Prime last year for around 26k before tax credit. it has a 6kwh battery and gets about 30 miles pure ev driving. This was his 3rd Prius, but first time plug-in version. He doesn't have a very long commute and just charges it up every night. His first tank of gas lasted like 4 months. I'm a car enthusiast, and this is definitely not targeted towards my demographic. I totally recommend this car if you need a cheap intro to EVs.
So it's a gas car but can go 30 miles on pure electric driving? is there a speed cap on the electric driving? I have a 2011 or whatever prius, electric only driving is only limited to like parking lot speeds, lol. otherwise either a mix of gas with electric or only gas if in pwr mode. if it's 30 mild electric before going to gas, no speed cap on the electric, then it sounds like the type of car I would want. I'm unsure about going electric only at this point, but a solid mix of the two would be phenominal, and 30 miles electric is plenty for day to day commuting.
These are good transition cars, but in terms of actually making a dent in reducing oil consumption, increasing the efficiency of an already efficient car doesn't really matter, as the percent change is small. However, going from something that gets teens to mid 20's and getting 60+ mpg equivalent is a big jump in efficiency. This is why only a small number of companies went hybrid and most just waited to go full EV.
I think the subaru solterra should have been targeted as a smaller, Chevrolet bolt/nissan leaf competitor at 25k or less. At that point, it would be a bargain
They're looking to come into a pricier segment , bigger profits , besides it's really expensive for an ice manufacturer to produce an ev , it's that same " it'll be cheaper as time goes by " thingy
@@NotUrDJ maybe. But a market failure is also expensive, and with the ioniq 5 and the ev6 being cheaper people are probably an ad away from buying that instead
@@symbian9874 yeah u don't know how much i want to drive an ora cat or seat hot hatchback ev in the usa. Id pay a 2k import and not get government money and still buy one.
In India Tata Motors launched Nexon Ev Max With 271mile(437km) range for $22,000 (converted) It has 50kw fast charging 0-80% in 56min With 40kw battery pack Ventilated seats 10inch infotainment display & more 5Star safety rating With most safety features
@@celloer13 Yes, it isn't fast but India doesn't have any charging-on-the-road infrastructure either. So anyone with an EV is definitely charging at home only. Also road trips are not as big a form of recreation as the US.
You are failing to mention that the Solterra differs in a very meaningful way, for Subaru buyers, to all the other options => off-road capability. The Solterra has 30-50 mm higher ground clearance and the most sophisticated AWD system. This might matter more to the buyers than the 0-80% charge time. Comparing EPA range estimates is also not without issues.
I think the Solterras lacks Subaru DNA mainly because so much of the design was kept from the BZ4X. It’s not a bad looking vehicle… just different than Subarus other cars.
I actually don't think it looks all that different from how the Impreza/Crosstrek has been trending the last few years. But to me the Subaru DNA is the ability of really well priced vehicles having killer AWD functionality. This just isn't that =(
Considering there are 3 different versions of this vehicle this, Toyota BZ4X, and the Lexus RZ450E.. I think this was just a quick cash grab for Subaru that might backfire on them in the future.
Not sure if anyone else already mentioned this, but I believe the reason that Toyota gives for the super slow charging of the BZ4X/Solterra battery is for the sake of battery longevity. They guarantee a higher charge capacity at the end of the 8 year battery warranty than other manufacturers do-I believe 90% versus most others guarantee 70% (please fact check me on this). I think Toyota did this because they are all about reliability and long-lasting cars (which makes them good partners for Subaru). However, a couple things-time will tell how much longer lasting their batteries will be, and it will also tell how worth the extra longevity will be compared to the inconvenience of the long charging times. To me it’s not worth it, even if the car lasts a good number of years more than other cars, because that’s about saving money, but saving time is more important to me than saving money because money can theoretically be replaced. That said, fast DC charging is not that critical for people who charge in their garage and just roam around town. So that buyer might be who the Solterra and BZ4X are for. That wouldn’t surprise me for the Toyota, but it does surprise me for Subaru. I thought Subarus are marketed toward the adventurer. The adventurer drives long distances into nature, so they need an EV with either at least very long range and mediocre charging or mediocre range and very fast charging. Mediocre range and very slow charging doesn’t work for this buyer.
It seems to me they are missing the point of the Solterra/BZ4x twins. Toyota/Subaru brought something different to the market and chose different sets of compromises. Ground clearance and standard heat pump on these cars are good for product diversity. Try going off road on any other $45k Crossover EV and you quickly run into trouble. Base models of IONIQ and EV6 have no heat pump, good luck in the winter. This is a different product to a Tesla. Tesla is more expensive for a reason. You can’t find an AWD Tesla crossover for anywhere near $45k
@@xeon2k8 both have an optional heat pump, but not standard on base trims and if I remember correctly both Niro and Kona have the slower charging that they say is too slow. Finally, both Kona and Niro do not have the ground clearance. I’m not saying they are bad products, they just serve different people.
Dog, ain't no one going to off road their EV. Furthermore, half the people that buy Subarus, even the off roadified Outback have a car shinier than my Mazda6 as I drive on gravel and dirt roads often in my car.
It always shocks me how badly Andrew thinks a legacy car maker will undercut Tesla on prices. The OEM model will never allow that unless they lose tens of thousands per vehicle. There's no realistic hope for a 30k EV from a legacy car maker that'll come remotely close to the absolute bottom end Model 3. Not for 10 years.
Considering the cheapest model 3 is over 39,000 (with no tax incentives available) Tesla isn't coming close to a bottom end model 3 for 30,000 either...
@@FinneasJedidiah Tesla is starting to scale to a point where they are reaping the benefits of mass production especially with 33% margins on their vehicles. The highest margin automaker was BMW with like 14% margin or something. So if tesla didn’t have the demand and needed to cut prices, they can make a $30,000 today if they had to, but people are happy paying 45k for a base model 3.
@@harsimranbansal5355 no automaker is having trouble selling any car rn- it's just that Tesla's price gouging poeple themselves instead of the dealerships
@@124romero porsche is at around 15-20% gross margin. Ferrari is the most profitable with around 35-50% gross margins but they only sell a few thousand cars, not a million like tesla. The EV architecture allows for manufacturers to get gross margins resembling consumer electronics, around 50-60%.
I think the Subaru and Toyota is more than the specs indicate. There's more to a car than specs. Build quality matters. The way it handles matters. The feel of the little things like how a switch actuates. It still rubs me the wrong way every time I open the vanity mirror flap on a tesla. Of course specs do matter because price performance ratio still leads to bang for the buck, but it's not the end all be all.
thing is though, at a certain point, most car interiors and build quality are fine. All cars have panel gaps, even BMWs. Most build quality is fine across brands. Such a slow charge and range to me just screams A) compliance car and B) purposeful malicious design so they can say "See, no one wants an EV. We were right to not build an EV".
@@michaelkovalsky4907 both of my brothers' Tesla (model 3 and Y) have rattles and little noises that should never occur on a new car. my friend's model 3 also has a rear camera malfunction which Tesla can't figure out what is wrong. I didn't go into other things because I hate long comments. But for example, the Toyota/Subaru have a really good 4WD system as demonstrated in a few videos where they actually go offroading. not just riding on dirt but true offroading where one wheel is off the ground and the other wheel is connected. none of the Tesla/VW/Hyundai videos show any offroading.
I initially thought the same, but then I looked at the competition. There isn't any EV that offers substantially more range for the same price. These EV's advertise their low prices but they're actually more like $60k when you want 300+ miles. You should check how fast their prices increase.
Ioniq 5 base has 303 miles of range at 44k and way faster charging. Sure its not AWD, but you can upgrade to 303 with AWD for 48k and still get the huge charging time increase. Definitely vehicles out there with 300 miles for under 60k.
Toyota is losing the full federal tax incentive in September of this year. That means that the Subaru will still be cheaper than Toyota’s version. Subaru and Toyota are so far behind in range and fast charging, but one good thing they have going for them is the ground clearance which allows them to go on trails. Also trunk space is superior in the Toyota/Subaru compared to Kia/Hyundai
Yep also regarding range and 0-80, practically speaking those 80 less miles of range translate into getting 64 less miles out of that charging session. So not only does this car have a very slow 0-80 charge speed at 56 minutes versus 18-30 on competing brands, it's also getting less range out of that charge time.
So many new EV's have been incredibly disappointing. The new Mazda EV, the MX-30, *starts* at $33,470, and it only has 100 EPA range. Maaaaaaybe with the rumored range extender ICE engine, but it had better get over 250 miles range with that, especially since there's no frunk.
Coming from a bunch of OEM who do not want to build BEVs. They bet on the wrong tech. Mazda thought Compression Ignition Petrol Engine was the future. That is going to be an expensive mess to fix after some high mileage.
You guys make a big deal out of the price, but if you compare it to any other AWD EV they are in the same ballpark. The deal killer for me is that you can only put an 'activity' hitch on it which, with a capacity of 100 lbs, can't take a bike rack and 2 mtb's
It looks like a rav4... also I think that these companies think they need brand new parts from top to bottom. I think it they should go the Ford did with the lightning basically an F150e
It looks fine. It’s just crazy disappointing on paper. I have a Forester, this should have been a no-brainer for me. But I ordered a Mach-E instead. I just can’t figure out who this is for. They’re an adventure / outdoors oriented brand, but you won’t get far in this, you need to stay close to a fast charger. If they’re going after a newer market, it’s certainly not clear who that might be.
Just seems to me that their R&D department is well behind in the ev market and their technology isn't up to snuff. I do appreciate that they're sticking to their guns on AWD. Living in the midwest, I'm never going back to FWD, much less RWD.
I think range is very important. I have road tripped in a car with 400 miles range and one with 100 miles (was a city car). You quickly get tired of having to stop to fill up.
100 Kw charging speed? What were they thinking? Didn't someone say, look, if we have to add $3K to the price, let's do so, because 100Kw charging speeds simply won't cut it.
I’ve been looking at this car for a bit, currently used sale prices at Hertz is about 28k average. Would you considered this a good pricing point for this car?
Am I the only one that noticed how he caught a fly out the air and casually threw it behind him so smoothly you could hardly tell LOL Great clip fellas
As a subaru crosstrek owner I was excited to hear subaru was getting into electric cars. But, man they missed every mark that even a fan of subaru like me can't stomach it. I'll still try and test drive one when they become available, but that saleman is gonna have to come up with one heck of a deal if you wants me to take it home with me. I do hope subaru wises up and atleast gives the option for a long range model. 300+ miles and I maaaaaay come around.
Range is not important above 200 miles. The insistence on 300 miles is a gas tank mentality. You need to stop and pee every 105-140 miles (90 min - 2 hrs) anyway. But it's important how fast you can get those 105-140 miles charged into the battery down low in the sweet spot of the charging curve. bZ4X AWD does it in 25-30 minutes with presumably the same battery as the Solterra.
$45K?!?!? I love Subaru and I know they are expensive, but I wasn’t expecting it to be THAT EXPENSIVE! It’s such a good looking car in my opinion, looks much better than most of the EVs out now aside from Tesla. They really missed an opportunity here to come in at a low price since the range is low.
It's interesting that the bZ4X takes 11 hours to charge on a level 2 charger while the Solterra only takes 9 hours, and everybody assumes there'll be no difference between the two cars in DC charging.
You have a valid point regarding the Subaru and fast charging capability. However, in practice out here in the real world, the chances of you finding a public charger beyond 100kWh, that is NOT a Tesla charger, are quite slim at the moment, and I live in the San Francisco Bay area. Forget what the apps actually say, go out there and look at how quickly these public stations charge, even those that are rated higher are not running at full capacity.
I don’t know where you guys live, but the long distance mileage is very important for the eastern part of the country. I live in Cleveland, which is about 150-175 miles to Columbus, or 350 miles to Chicago. You have to think of it that way.
Can confirm Hyundai Ionic 5 is a great looking car and so unique on the road!!!! Also you guys are missing Polestar. They are flying in the UK, There are so many in england and its getting the Volvo unbreakable reputation. Imho it looks better than the Tesla by a mile. Another thing I'd like to say most tesla's ive seen around England are dented or scuffed. People bash them around like bumper cars.
Yeah everything about this EV screams low end but instead it seems like they decided to jack up the price right before launch to capitalize on the car shortages (especially EVs). No way this car sells for what they’re asking in a normal market.
A replica is the Toyota BZ4X since they partnered up but it’s 5k cheaper. I’m paying 10k more for the asking price due to the market but I have 13k in incentives/rebate
But you need to owe on your taxes, and you only get money off from that. If you only owe, 1K, you lose the other 6K. If you don’t owe, it’s not cheaper.
The mini Cooper SE is well over 30k with half the size and half the range. The price is not unreasonable at all granted I'm sure the Cooper is probably a much higher quality car. For a better comparison the Volvo XC40/c40 ev is 10-20k more optioned out with not that much more power but a bit more range.
FYI, that is just a rebadged Toyota, who is a shareholder in Subura. And, yes, the Toyota version is less $$, but the Subura only comes in awd (not 4wd like you guys said). Sounds like you guys are jeans shopping, not car...
I actually had a reservation for the Solterra, but I ended up canceling it after the specs and price came out. It just falls so far short of what an EV in 2022 should be.
As a Subaru owner, I am disappointed in this car and frankly rather angry because I was hoping it would replace my 2011 outback. It's starting price is more than what I can get the 2023 top of the line wilderness edition outback for..... What the hell Subaru?
You don't judge cars by looking at specs on a website. You judge the car by driving it and using it. Marques always reviews a phone after making it his "daily driver" for at least a week before making a review. However, for this vehicle, he is making all these judgements from looking at a spec sheet on a website and we all know about the numbers game played by automakers. I would recommend that Marques treat cars the same way he treats phones. Don't jump the gun, remain objective and review the vehicle in person.
Well a phone costs like 1-2K tops, you aren't going to get a dealership to let you "daily drive" a 45K car for a week. Like past a certain point you go based on spec and what other competitors have for the same price. At this time, that car is a compliance vehicle
If you like Subarus for their reliability, you aren't familiar with the brand. The long running head gasket issues alone are an embarrassment. Said as a fan of a lot of their cars.
That guy on the left sounds like he never drove a car until after he got a smartphone and computer.. 'Man this car has low FPS' umm like low speed? LOL
You can clearly see the CR-H in the design. On the other hand, it is a very expensive car, here in Canada... man the dollar is worth nothing so this one will most likely start around 59,900 CAD.
Toyota is really disappointing with its first EV entry. For the specs and price, Hyundai/Kia have it beat. Curious to see how that GM $30k EV will turn out that would be a game changer. Or even the $40k Chevy Blazer EV
For me to buy an EV when they all carry a premium over combustion engines. It will have to get over 400 miles per charge. Range anxiety is a killer for me.
Very disappointing. What do you expect from Toyota who spent money lobbying against the transition to EVs. Also Subaru skiers, they've said DC fast charging will be even slower than 1hr in below freezing temperatures.
Depends on how the Solterra arrived at this EPA number. It might me understated as in the case for Taycan. I'm optimistic it can beat it's EPA range estimate in the independent real world tests, it's lighter than most of the competition (even if accounting for battery size) and has a decent Cd.
Compliance car...the problem legacy auto have is having to compete with EV start-ups on everything (range, style, price etc. I.e. Tesla), while not totally demolishing their ICE business...once they sell their stylish EVs at ICE sticker price to compete it's gonna be pandemonium!!! Closing down ICE, attracting great talent, developing a stable EV supply chain, ramping EV production, remodeling the dealership to DTC...the mountain is a steep one
"if you're in snow the rwd might be harder to navigate because the back slips out" ...bro doesn't even realize that the reason rwd cars are usually bad in snow is because most rwd cars are front engined and therefore most of the weight is over the front wheels so the rear wheels get less traction. But this obviously doesn't apply to electric cars. Another case of this dude talking about stuff he has no idea about.
Solterra is a partner car where a partner handles all the technology and Subaru handles the body. unfortunately you're paying Subaru as well as rheir paetner.
I'm a longtime subaru fan, and I fear for them in the coming EV transition. Everything that makes them unique and compelling as a brand won't meaningfully carry over to an EV: cheap, uber-practical cars (one of the few affordable wagons in the outback) that punch way above their price in snow and off-road performance thanks to exceptional mechanical AWD and low center of gravity from their boxer ICE engines.
They've really staked their company on mastery of those key technologies and not much else. And now they're going to be forced to leave them behind. Low center of mass is inherent to EV architecture, and good AWD comes down to an extra motor and good software.
As a smaller company, they also don't have the same capacity as other OEMs to re-tool and design whole new electric platforms from scratch. Which is why a rebadged Toyota is probably their best option to get a toehold in the market. But as you guys point out, on paper it doesn't offer anything that other OEMs can't do better or cheaper. I really don't know where they go from here.
Instead of making a whole new car, they should just replace the engine in the Crosstrek for an Electric one. Would sell well
@@conrado800 It’s not that simple. Retrofitting an ICE vehicle to an EV would result in a lackluster vehicle. They need to build an EV from the ground up. This is what is being done with all of the successful EVs.
They still have some other brand values, if anyone there is paying attention. Function over form. Greenhouse glass instead of the miserable little tanks everyone else designs. Uber-low center of gravity while retaining ground clearance - do it even better than the other EVs. Right-sized wheel overall diameter (impacts passenger space) instead of fashion statements. But most important, don't make it look like a RAV4!
My dad got a new Prius Prime last year for around 26k before tax credit. it has a 6kwh battery and gets about 30 miles pure ev driving. This was his 3rd Prius, but first time plug-in version. He doesn't have a very long commute and just charges it up every night. His first tank of gas lasted like 4 months.
I'm a car enthusiast, and this is definitely not targeted towards my demographic. I totally recommend this car if you need a cheap intro to EVs.
BRZ is more Subaru and less Toyota, this one is just opposite
@@chandrakantutube wtf you talking about
So it's a gas car but can go 30 miles on pure electric driving? is there a speed cap on the electric driving? I have a 2011 or whatever prius, electric only driving is only limited to like parking lot speeds, lol. otherwise either a mix of gas with electric or only gas if in pwr mode. if it's 30 mild electric before going to gas, no speed cap on the electric, then it sounds like the type of car I would want. I'm unsure about going electric only at this point, but a solid mix of the two would be phenominal, and 30 miles electric is plenty for day to day commuting.
@@mollerbt Yes, check it out. Prius Prime allows proper EV driving unlike the limited EV driving from a regular Prius
These are good transition cars, but in terms of actually making a dent in reducing oil consumption, increasing the efficiency of an already efficient car doesn't really matter, as the percent change is small. However, going from something that gets teens to mid 20's and getting 60+ mpg equivalent is a big jump in efficiency. This is why only a small number of companies went hybrid and most just waited to go full EV.
I think the subaru solterra should have been targeted as a smaller, Chevrolet bolt/nissan leaf competitor at 25k or less. At that point, it would be a bargain
Bro said an ev should be priced at 25k I’m dead
@@thedon897 TBH. there are EVs for that price with decent range, but not available in us
They're looking to come into a pricier segment , bigger profits , besides it's really expensive for an ice manufacturer to produce an ev , it's that same " it'll be cheaper as time goes by " thingy
@@NotUrDJ maybe. But a market failure is also expensive, and with the ioniq 5 and the ev6 being cheaper people are probably an ad away from buying that instead
@@symbian9874 yeah u don't know how much i want to drive an ora cat or seat hot hatchback ev in the usa. Id pay a 2k import and not get government money and still buy one.
In India Tata Motors launched Nexon Ev Max
With 271mile(437km) range for $22,000 (converted)
It has 50kw fast charging 0-80% in 56min
With 40kw battery pack
Ventilated seats
10inch infotainment display
& more
5Star safety rating
With most safety features
50kw is not fast. Impressive price point though if true
@@celloer13 Yes, it isn't fast but India doesn't have any charging-on-the-road infrastructure either. So anyone with an EV is definitely charging at home only. Also road trips are not as big a form of recreation as the US.
@@celloer13 $22,000 for the 270 mile
The starting price is around $19,000 for 190 mile
You are failing to mention that the Solterra differs in a very meaningful way, for Subaru buyers, to all the other options => off-road capability. The Solterra has 30-50 mm higher ground clearance and the most sophisticated AWD system. This might matter more to the buyers than the 0-80% charge time. Comparing EPA range estimates is also not without issues.
I think the Solterras lacks Subaru DNA mainly because so much of the design was kept from the BZ4X. It’s not a bad looking vehicle… just different than Subarus other cars.
I actually don't think it looks all that different from how the Impreza/Crosstrek has been trending the last few years. But to me the Subaru DNA is the ability of really well priced vehicles having killer AWD functionality.
This just isn't that =(
Considering there are 3 different versions of this vehicle this, Toyota BZ4X, and the Lexus RZ450E.. I think this was just a quick cash grab for Subaru that might backfire on them in the future.
Those names seem like Toyota is rushing in 😂
Not sure if anyone else already mentioned this, but I believe the reason that Toyota gives for the super slow charging of the BZ4X/Solterra battery is for the sake of battery longevity. They guarantee a higher charge capacity at the end of the 8 year battery warranty than other manufacturers do-I believe 90% versus most others guarantee 70% (please fact check me on this). I think Toyota did this because they are all about reliability and long-lasting cars (which makes them good partners for Subaru). However, a couple things-time will tell how much longer lasting their batteries will be, and it will also tell how worth the extra longevity will be compared to the inconvenience of the long charging times. To me it’s not worth it, even if the car lasts a good number of years more than other cars, because that’s about saving money, but saving time is more important to me than saving money because money can theoretically be replaced. That said, fast DC charging is not that critical for people who charge in their garage and just roam around town. So that buyer might be who the Solterra and BZ4X are for. That wouldn’t surprise me for the Toyota, but it does surprise me for Subaru. I thought Subarus are marketed toward the adventurer. The adventurer drives long distances into nature, so they need an EV with either at least very long range and mediocre charging or mediocre range and very fast charging. Mediocre range and very slow charging doesn’t work for this buyer.
It seems to me they are missing the point of the Solterra/BZ4x twins. Toyota/Subaru brought something different to the market and chose different sets of compromises. Ground clearance and standard heat pump on these cars are good for product diversity. Try going off road on any other $45k Crossover EV and you quickly run into trouble. Base models of IONIQ and EV6 have no heat pump, good luck in the winter. This is a different product to a Tesla. Tesla is more expensive for a reason. You can’t find an AWD Tesla crossover for anywhere near $45k
smth different? have you heard of Kia niro and Hyundai Kona? both have heat pump
@@xeon2k8 both have an optional heat pump, but not standard on base trims and if I remember correctly both Niro and Kona have the slower charging that they say is too slow. Finally, both Kona and Niro do not have the ground clearance. I’m not saying they are bad products, they just serve different people.
@@jraguilar86 Kona Limited with heat pump 42k, ground clearance 6.1" vs 8.3" from Subaru. Quit scavenging for excuses.
@@xeon2k8 pretty substantial difference in ground clearance, and the Kona is FWD.
Dog, ain't no one going to off road their EV. Furthermore, half the people that buy Subarus, even the off roadified Outback have a car shinier than my Mazda6 as I drive on gravel and dirt roads often in my car.
It always shocks me how badly Andrew thinks a legacy car maker will undercut Tesla on prices. The OEM model will never allow that unless they lose tens of thousands per vehicle. There's no realistic hope for a 30k EV from a legacy car maker that'll come remotely close to the absolute bottom end Model 3. Not for 10 years.
Considering the cheapest model 3 is over 39,000 (with no tax incentives available) Tesla isn't coming close to a bottom end model 3 for 30,000 either...
@@FinneasJedidiah Tesla is starting to scale to a point where they are reaping the benefits of mass production especially with 33% margins on their vehicles. The highest margin automaker was BMW with like 14% margin or something. So if tesla didn’t have the demand and needed to cut prices, they can make a $30,000 today if they had to, but people are happy paying 45k for a base model 3.
@@harsimranbansal5355 no automaker is having trouble selling any car rn- it's just that Tesla's price gouging poeple themselves instead of the dealerships
@@harsimranbansal5355 Porsche has a higher margin at 40%
@@124romero porsche is at around 15-20% gross margin. Ferrari is the most profitable with around 35-50% gross margins but they only sell a few thousand cars, not a million like tesla. The EV architecture allows for manufacturers to get gross margins resembling consumer electronics, around 50-60%.
I think the Subaru and Toyota is more than the specs indicate. There's more to a car than specs. Build quality matters. The way it handles matters. The feel of the little things like how a switch actuates. It still rubs me the wrong way every time I open the vanity mirror flap on a tesla. Of course specs do matter because price performance ratio still leads to bang for the buck, but it's not the end all be all.
thing is though, at a certain point, most car interiors and build quality are fine. All cars have panel gaps, even BMWs. Most build quality is fine across brands. Such a slow charge and range to me just screams A) compliance car and B) purposeful malicious design so they can say "See, no one wants an EV. We were right to not build an EV".
@@michaelkovalsky4907 both of my brothers' Tesla (model 3 and Y) have rattles and little noises that should never occur on a new car. my friend's model 3 also has a rear camera malfunction which Tesla can't figure out what is wrong. I didn't go into other things because I hate long comments. But for example, the Toyota/Subaru have a really good 4WD system as demonstrated in a few videos where they actually go offroading. not just riding on dirt but true offroading where one wheel is off the ground and the other wheel is connected. none of the Tesla/VW/Hyundai videos show any offroading.
The Ioniq looks so good. I am definitely lowkey nudging my wife to get it down the road so I could try driving it.
I own one and it’s great. The charging speed isn’t a joke. 11 minutes 10-80
@@DanielDaniel-mw3wk Oh damn O_O
@@MHassan1986 electrify America also partnered with hyndia I get 2 years free charging.
@@DanielDaniel-mw3wk Oh that's dope.
I initially thought the same, but then I looked at the competition. There isn't any EV that offers substantially more range for the same price. These EV's advertise their low prices but they're actually more like $60k when you want 300+ miles. You should check how fast their prices increase.
Ioniq 5 base has 303 miles of range at 44k and way faster charging. Sure its not AWD, but you can upgrade to 303 with AWD for 48k and still get the huge charging time increase. Definitely vehicles out there with 300 miles for under 60k.
@@Manganellia1 there awd is like teslas. It can't do any decent offroading.
Toyota is losing the full federal tax incentive in September of this year. That means that the Subaru will still be cheaper than Toyota’s version.
Subaru and Toyota are so far behind in range and fast charging, but one good thing they have going for them is the ground clearance which allows them to go on trails. Also trunk space is superior in the Toyota/Subaru compared to Kia/Hyundai
I love my Subaru Outback and would love an electric crosstrek style car for my daily driver
There is a plugin hybrid Crosstrek, though it may be difficult to get a hold of most places
I would not, I'm trade my outback in for F150 lightning or Silverado EV. Crosstrek 🤢. Solterra is a day late and a dollar short
Yep also regarding range and 0-80, practically speaking those 80 less miles of range translate into getting 64 less miles out of that charging session. So not only does this car have a very slow 0-80 charge speed at 56 minutes versus 18-30 on competing brands, it's also getting less range out of that charge time.
So many new EV's have been incredibly disappointing. The new Mazda EV, the MX-30, *starts* at $33,470, and it only has 100 EPA range. Maaaaaaybe with the rumored range extender ICE engine, but it had better get over 250 miles range with that, especially since there's no frunk.
Coming from a bunch of OEM who do not want to build BEVs. They bet on the wrong tech. Mazda thought Compression Ignition Petrol Engine was the future. That is going to be an expensive mess to fix after some high mileage.
You guys make a big deal out of the price, but if you compare it to any other AWD EV they are in the same ballpark. The deal killer for me is that you can only put an 'activity' hitch on it which, with a capacity of 100 lbs, can't take a bike rack and 2 mtb's
It looks like a rav4... also I think that these companies think they need brand new parts from top to bottom. I think it they should go the Ford did with the lightning basically an F150e
Wanted to say this. Take an outback or forester and make it electric or hybrid. Has to be cheaper than designing something from the ground up?
This is the exact same as Toyota's BZ4X. Color me surprised
Edit: Oh you actually talked about it
It looks fine. It’s just crazy disappointing on paper. I have a Forester, this should have been a no-brainer for me. But I ordered a Mach-E instead. I just can’t figure out who this is for. They’re an adventure / outdoors oriented brand, but you won’t get far in this, you need to stay close to a fast charger. If they’re going after a newer market, it’s certainly not clear who that might be.
Just seems to me that their R&D department is well behind in the ev market and their technology isn't up to snuff. I do appreciate that they're sticking to their guns on AWD. Living in the midwest, I'm never going back to FWD, much less RWD.
I think range is very important. I have road tripped in a car with 400 miles range and one with 100 miles (was a city car). You quickly get tired of having to stop to fill up.
Yeah but 400 miles vs 300 miles isn't much different.
100 Kw charging speed? What were they thinking? Didn't someone say, look, if we have to add $3K to the price, let's do so, because 100Kw charging speeds simply won't cut it.
I’ve been looking at this car for a bit, currently used sale prices at Hertz is about 28k average. Would you considered this a good pricing point for this car?
Am I the only one that noticed how he caught a fly out the air and casually threw it behind him so smoothly you could hardly tell LOL Great clip fellas
As a subaru crosstrek owner I was excited to hear subaru was getting into electric cars. But, man they missed every mark that even a fan of subaru like me can't stomach it. I'll still try and test drive one when they become available, but that saleman is gonna have to come up with one heck of a deal if you wants me to take it home with me. I do hope subaru wises up and atleast gives the option for a long range model. 300+ miles and I maaaaaay come around.
Range is not important above 200 miles. The insistence on 300 miles is a gas tank mentality. You need to stop and pee every 105-140 miles (90 min - 2 hrs) anyway. But it's important how fast you can get those 105-140 miles charged into the battery down low in the sweet spot of the charging curve. bZ4X AWD does it in 25-30 minutes with presumably the same battery as the Solterra.
$45K?!?!? I love Subaru and I know they are expensive, but I wasn’t expecting it to be THAT EXPENSIVE! It’s such a good looking car in my opinion, looks much better than most of the EVs out now aside from Tesla. They really missed an opportunity here to come in at a low price since the range is low.
Don't be disappointed Marques. That's the best they could do
“There’s not a difference between front wheel drive and rear wheel drive.” Are you kidding me? Someone needs to teach my guy the ways of the force.
He's a tech guy, not a gearhead. He will learn, though (hopefully).
Watch Out of Specs charging video on the bZ4X AWD (same car as the Solterra basically), the charging is abysmally slow.
It's interesting that the bZ4X takes 11 hours to charge on a level 2 charger while the Solterra only takes 9 hours, and everybody assumes there'll be no difference between the two cars in DC charging.
You have a valid point regarding the Subaru and fast charging capability. However, in practice out here in the real world, the chances of you finding a public charger beyond 100kWh, that is NOT a Tesla charger, are quite slim at the moment, and I live in the San Francisco Bay area. Forget what the apps actually say, go out there and look at how quickly these public stations charge, even those that are rated higher are not running at full capacity.
it's the same platform as the toyta bz4x so i dont think they set themselves the price
I don’t know where you guys live, but the long distance mileage is very important for the eastern part of the country. I live in Cleveland, which is about 150-175 miles to Columbus, or 350 miles to Chicago. You have to think of it that way.
Can confirm Hyundai Ionic 5 is a great looking car and so unique on the road!!!! Also you guys are missing Polestar. They are flying in the UK, There are so many in england and its getting the Volvo unbreakable reputation. Imho it looks better than the Tesla by a mile. Another thing I'd like to say most tesla's ive seen around England are dented or scuffed. People bash them around like bumper cars.
Yeah everything about this EV screams low end but instead it seems like they decided to jack up the price right before launch to capitalize on the car shortages (especially EVs).
No way this car sells for what they’re asking in a normal market.
Aside from charging speed, it's the most desirable car to drive in its class. And subtract that $7500 tax credit from the price.
A replica is the Toyota BZ4X since they partnered up but it’s 5k cheaper. I’m paying 10k more for the asking price due to the market but I have 13k in incentives/rebate
I feel like Toyota is trying to not sell this car. Even when it was announced I thought it was incredibly underwhelming.
It looks like Toyota recreated the Pontiac Aztec
Soltera still qualifies for the $7500 tax credit in the US. BZ4X does not. The soltera is thousands of dollars cheaper
But you need to owe on your taxes, and you only get money off from that. If you only owe, 1K, you lose the other 6K.
If you don’t owe, it’s not cheaper.
After the $7500 tax credit, the top trim Solterra is cheaper than the average new car price in the U.S. It's disappointing that that wasn't mentioned.
The mini Cooper SE is well over 30k with half the size and half the range. The price is not unreasonable at all granted I'm sure the Cooper is probably a much higher quality car. For a better comparison the Volvo XC40/c40 ev is 10-20k more optioned out with not that much more power but a bit more range.
FYI, that is just a rebadged Toyota, who is a shareholder in Subura. And, yes, the Toyota version is less $$, but the Subura only comes in awd (not 4wd like you guys said). Sounds like you guys are jeans shopping, not car...
Awesome content 👍👍
Those AWD Ioniq are going for $75k here in CA so the MSRP comparison isn’t a real metric though.
And... either of them is an auto journalist/ test drivers? Watching tech people review cars is as comical as auto journalist review iPhones and CPUs.
I actually had a reservation for the Solterra, but I ended up canceling it after the specs and price came out. It just falls so far short of what an EV in 2022 should be.
As a Subaru owner, I am disappointed in this car and frankly rather angry because I was hoping it would replace my 2011 outback. It's starting price is more than what I can get the 2023 top of the line wilderness edition outback for..... What the hell Subaru?
Awesome video 🔥🔥
Low power motors or not ANY power going to the front lowers the range lol, even with Tesla's it hurt range alot
What’s with Toyota bz4x!
I'm gonna get a bz4x awd. It's the price the f150 lightning should be, and it can offroad good enough. Ev6 and ionic 5 cannot.
This is a joint venture with Toyota is it not? This is just a Toyota EV with Subaru badges. Just like the BRZ
I live in Osaka and I’ve NEVER seen one until today…
It looks like they took a mach e and lifted the rear roof line
This suit is about to look so good next year ⚡️
Thanks for all the updates and from viewers with their comments. Lots of homework needs to be done, before you buy an EV.
The Ioniq 5 infotainment screens somehow scream dentist to me.
You don't judge cars by looking at specs on a website. You judge the car by driving it and using it.
Marques always reviews a phone after making it his "daily driver" for at least a week before making a review.
However, for this vehicle, he is making all these judgements from looking at a spec sheet on a website and we all know about the numbers game played by automakers.
I would recommend that Marques treat cars the same way he treats phones. Don't jump the gun, remain objective and review the vehicle in person.
Well a phone costs like 1-2K tops, you aren't going to get a dealership to let you "daily drive" a 45K car for a week. Like past a certain point you go based on spec and what other competitors have for the same price. At this time, that car is a compliance vehicle
@@michaelkovalsky4907 So, are you saying that he shouldn’t review the cars in person and review them by looking at specs on a website?
why does the front of that car look like a Mustang Mach-E?
If you like Subarus for their reliability, you aren't familiar with the brand. The long running head gasket issues alone are an embarrassment. Said as a fan of a lot of their cars.
The Toyota version in black. It hide the wheel arches. Looks like Darth Vader.
The solterra is closer to a forester. Also will be eligible for the tax credit longer than the BZ4X. But the ionic 5 is way better still.
I do like the wilderness outback though.
It's too early to tell. They are just trying to say "hey wait we're doing this too!". They might catch up and figure it out along the way.
"there's not a huge difference between rear wheel and front wheel" - this clueless guy on this podcast
Snatches the fly. Cool. Dispatches the snatched fly? Cooler. (3:21)
In Europe they charge at 150 kw
That guy on the left sounds like he never drove a car until after he got a smartphone and computer.. 'Man this car has low FPS' umm like low speed? LOL
You can clearly see the CR-H in the design. On the other hand, it is a very expensive car, here in Canada... man the dollar is worth nothing so this one will most likely start around 59,900 CAD.
so they dropped the sti to make this ev wow
I'm almost as disappointed as with the Mazda MX 30.
Toyota is really disappointing with its first EV entry. For the specs and price, Hyundai/Kia have it beat. Curious to see how that GM $30k EV will turn out that would be a game changer. Or even the $40k Chevy Blazer EV
For me to buy an EV when they all carry a premium over combustion engines. It will have to get over 400 miles per charge. Range anxiety is a killer for me.
Her marquess can I go to the met gala on your tie please??
Very disappointing. What do you expect from Toyota who spent money lobbying against the transition to EVs. Also Subaru skiers, they've said DC fast charging will be even slower than 1hr in below freezing temperatures.
My man is addicted to "Like."
With all these EV releasing, I’m trying to be patient waiting for a Jeep Wrangler fully EV.
228 miles is also just so disappointing for an OUTDOOR vehicle. Like where am I going and feeling comfortable with that???
Depends on how the Solterra arrived at this EPA number. It might me understated as in the case for Taycan. I'm optimistic it can beat it's EPA range estimate in the
independent real world tests, it's lighter than most of the competition (even if accounting for battery size) and has a decent Cd.
Compliance car...the problem legacy auto have is having to compete with EV start-ups on everything (range, style, price etc. I.e. Tesla), while not totally demolishing their ICE business...once they sell their stylish EVs at ICE sticker price to compete it's gonna be pandemonium!!! Closing down ICE, attracting great talent, developing a stable EV supply chain, ramping EV production, remodeling the dealership to DTC...the mountain is a steep one
Compared to the Bolt EUV and the Niro EV, this doesn’t look too appealing.
You could get a lightning for that price...
Wrx is up there
This could be on a tie
I’d take Subaru’s built quality over tesla any day
Needs to get rid of piano black interior
Hey now! Put some respect on the BRZs name!
I got my deposit back when pricing came out. Mediocre specs and ridiculous price.
I love my Ioniq 5 in teal. Limited :)
"if you're in snow the rwd might be harder to navigate because the back slips out"
...bro doesn't even realize that the reason rwd cars are usually bad in snow is because most rwd cars are front engined and therefore most of the weight is over the front wheels so the rear wheels get less traction. But this obviously doesn't apply to electric cars. Another case of this dude talking about stuff he has no idea about.
NOT.. look at every video on RWD EVs in the snow and they all drive terrible! Sorry RWD lovers it just doesn’t match up.
It looks like a Mazda and a MachE combined
Met gala here I come!
It looks like the mustang ev. Just slapped a Subaru logo on it.
New WRX is Hideousssssssss, most Subaru Designs suck. The only good looking one is the BRZ
This is more adventure vehicle with longavity
What a missed opportunity for Subaru. Overpriced and under ranged. Yes, not mad but definitely disappointed.
Range isn't bad. Charging speed is a concern, though.
Subaru is starting to use way too much flat black on their vehicles and the Soltera definitely has way to much flat black.
Solterra is a partner car where a partner handles all the technology and Subaru handles the body. unfortunately you're paying Subaru as well as rheir paetner.
EV'S are going to be very expensive and range limited for everyone except for Tesla for the foreseeable future.
Subaru took the bullet for Toyota on this one…
FACTS!
it's MX30 all over again