Off-road comparison: [Uni-body vs. Body on frame] on a lvl 4 Jeep trail (Joshua Tree NP)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 มี.ค. 2020
- Feb. 22, 2020: In this day and age, there can be a lot of confusion between what vehicles types truly compete with each other. For example, a Toyota 4 runner and Jeep Grand Cherokee are NOW, two totally different vehicles. The 4runner is body on frame with a Solid rear Axle, while the Jeep Grand Grand Cherokee WK2 is of unibody construction (always has) BUT, it "no longer" has a Solid rear axle.
We don't have a Grand Cherokee with us, but we do have plenty of other unibody full independent suspension machines. We also don't have a 4 runner, but we have an Xterra, Isuzu Rodeo to play the roll of body on frame/ rear solid axle. As a bonus, we have two Front and Rear solid axle machines, a Jeep Gladiator Rubicon and a 1st gen ford Explorer (Mazda Najavo).
We take 12 vehicles up Old Dale / Gold Crown road (which is a level 4 jeep trail. It was unplanned, but this made for a perfect off-road comparison (or observation if you will). This is REAL footage (except for a few cat sounds), no fluff, nothing deleted. There's a difference in how these vehicles perform off-road and I wanted to make sure you all understand this.
Here's the line up:
stock height Subaru Baja - @moodz_man
lifted 5th gen Outback - @mountain_lion_leo
lifted 5th gen Outback - @d.a.n.i.m.a.l
lifted 2nd gen Honda Passport (Isuzu Rodeo) - @grid.line.go
lifted 3rd gen Honda Passport - @jondz_adventuring
lifted 3rd gen Honda Passport - @sctpass
lifted 2nd gen Honda Ridgeline - @tony_tickles
lifted 2nd gen Acura MDX - @johnpatalinghug
lifted 1st gen Mercedez ML - @freedom_natureman_
Jeep Gladiator
1st gen Mazda Navajo - @7.akkun
2nd Gen Nissan Xterra - @m1kegutz
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Hello Everyone 👋. I totally forgot to mention that I started a “Non-brand specific” & “group neutral” Facebook group page called Crossoverlanding (EventHub). This is where I’ll be posting up trips, and my hope is that other people will use it too. This isn’t a group or clique, it’s just a place where like minded individuals can get together regardless of what brand car they drive. I’m based out of Southern California, but I explore Nevada, Utah, Arizona. I hope to make it out to Colorado and Oregon as well. If you hold events out in those states, I encourage you to post up your events, I’d love a reason to get out and adventure.
facebook.com/groups/1097379240623726/?ref=share
I'm interested too... Lol
Cool. I'll check it out.
What is the name of the fb group so I can search? The link is messing with my phone.
@@alejandroruiz289 CrossOverLanding (EventHub)
Can I go!!?? JK. I’ll check it out.
Want to see more of the second gen mdx!
Me too
Me too
hey, a Jeep guy here ....the best part ...sorry about the hold-up...Don't be ...this is part of it...... a great way to build confidence in a new driver fun for All is the goal
Nice video.
I was most impressed with the 2007 Acura MDX, Acura's SH-AWD is an amazing AWD system & it really shined in this video.
21:30 people are so comfortable to watch Acura MDX show off. I love Acura SH-AWD system.
As a former Subaru owner/offroader, my take away is that I am definitely buying an Xterra for my next vehicle LOL.
The Honda/ Acura were handling their business!! I love my 08 MDX!!👊🏽👊🏽
Yep, that heavy 2006 MDX with a 160 lb. roof top tent killed it. How come I didn’t know about their capabilities until recently? So underrated.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Which rooftop tent did you go with? Did you use the stock crossbars?
@@labear9466 I don’t have a Roof Top Tent on my Honda Passport, but the 2006 Acura MDX has the iKamper
My takeaway is that the Truck/SUVs did best and out of those it seemed the Gladiator just wasn’t challenged at all and the Acura had very little difficulty overall. Cool video. I think it’s really valuable to see the vehicles tackle the exact same terrain like you did. It would be great to see stock vehicles do this as a new kind of review format.
Mark Ettel thanks for watching and leaving such an observant comment.
Great teamwork from all the guys. Helping with spotting and piling rocks.
Leonardo López yeah! Absolutely! As I was editing this video, seeing us all get together to help each other out reminded me of how important it is to “never wheel alone”.
Take-away: You may have more trouble in some vehicles than in others, but with the help of friends, you can still get where you want to go.
Thomas Maresh well said!!! Friends/family + fun, that’s always the inspiration behind my trips!
This is the positivity we need 😀👍
This comparison was great! Learned a lot from Old Dale & looking forward to the next run.
Borderline Explorer you did great! And you have a good teacher (the Gladiator driver!). Looking forward to future adventures (hopefully tomorrow 🤣).
Second gen MDX smooth as silk.
XJ Cherokee is a unibody rig but is likely more capable than most other vehicles. Definitely more so than the stuff here. Tons of fun to watch all the different types of cars go up this trail.
turbolq4 I absolutely agree! One of my favorite TH-cam channels is Matt’s Off-road Recovery and he rescues all sorts of vehicles with yellow modified XJ. Having solid axles really helps off-road! By the way, I was out in Utah 2 weeks ago and I actually met Matt while I was pumping gas.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring I enjoy watching his videos too!
I had 2 xj cherokees! MANUAL TRANSMISSION. THEY WHERE AMAZING !
Nice, tnx for sharing. It definitely shows several issues. Clearance, axles, suspension, tires, drive systems and of course experience.
Dimitris Tsagdis thanks for watching! That’s exactly what I wanted to show people. I think sometimes people get caught up in the bubble of a specific car brand. This was a trip with a lot of diverse vehicles, and I wanted to show the world.
Love the video..cool selection of vehicles..nice to see what they can all do. I like the fact they aren't all "dedicated" off roaders. I'd be curious how my Land Rover LR2 would fair on that. Thanks again for the upload.
John Cook thanks for watching! The LR2 (Freelander in the USA) would do just fine on this trail.
Love it- thank you for sharing your comparisons!
This video is awesome!
Really makes me love my 11 MDX!
very underrated machines!
Awesome video, please keep them coming! I'd love to see more of that Xterra next time, just to see how capable a stock one is, I love that SUV!
Franher94 there’s two xterra guys actually. One has a 6 speed manual and the other guy has the automatic. I hope to video-graph them on more trips. You’re not the only one that has commented about the xterra.
This was really nice to watch! Lovely rainbows at the end! Nice!
Awesome stuff!! Can’t wait for the next trip!
Love these videos! I have a 2010 MDX and never would have thought that it would perform like your buddy’s ‘07. Good to know! About to pull the trigger on a 2020 Passport to replace a vehicle....getting excited to do some soft roading in the Northeast. It will be a while until I try stuff like you are showing. Keep it up, love the content!
Thanks for the kind words! Honestly, when I owned my 2 Subaru’s I thought I had the best AWD system in the world. I think that 2007 MDX shows otherwise right? Crazy.... we just can’t pass judgement until someone actually tries. This trail was relatively easy for the Hondas too. Check out the next level of difficulty by watching my Coyote flats video. That trail was much more difficult, but I only spun my tires twice. I did hit a capability ceiling on a future video I will release. This trail was a black diamond, I made it, but barely.
Awesome video as always buddy! I should have been there! These are the kind of trails I NEED!
Gabriel Ulloa the whole I was thinking of how you’d make driving up this trail easy. I also thought about how Artem and his CVT outback would make this look easy too!
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Possibly. But we won't know until we try it!
Isuzu Rodeos, Amigos and Troopers are the most underrated off-road vehicles. In my opinion they are better than the axel busters, but then again, it's a jeep thing I will never understand. On the way home in a major blizzard in Denver I had to navigate around a Nissan Pathfinder and Xterra that couldn't make it up an icey road. The Xterra kept sliding down the road sideways hitting the curb over and over again. The Pathfinder just stayed put I think out of fear. Anyway, I have a Rodeo which looks exactly like the Honda Passport in this video, but my true love was my 98 Amigo. Thanks by the way.
Bob Sardo I agree! They are very very underrated! It’s really too bad we really don’t have any alternatives to the Toyota 4 runner. Isuzu/Holden (Chevy), and Ford have Body in frame SUV’s in Australia that they don’t offer here 😭.
Xterta sliding? Probably needs a better gasket between the steering wheel and a seat 😉😂j/k 🤝 But Xterra is way underrated and very capable truck that can go against any other suv with ease. 👌Happy Holidays!
@@tuleberdiev Happy Holidays to you too, brother.
This is by far my favorite off-road video❤
Nice video ! Got a great workout that day walking , spotting and stacking rocks.
great info that was so helpful! I meant to mention how your rock stacking was so helpful, but I forgot 😖. I narrate these video’s freestyle and say what comes to mind. I thought about writing scripts, but man... it’s Already so time consuming.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring hey don't sweat it cuz I got me on track to lose 15 lb of weight. It was cool to not be driving so I could help everybody out.
I like the ring of rigs at the end. Reminds me of the old school wagon train.
You can really see the limitations of the Subaru CVT transmission in this video.
Chris Ross for crossover vehicles, this trail is really pushing the limits. Besides these $33K+ Honda’s, I really don’t see other non-luxury crossovers doing better than the Subaru’s. Maybe the 2019 Rav4, but no one on TH-cam is pushing the limit’s, so no one knows.
Oh! There’s the Mitsubishi Outlander GT V6 w/6speed automatic.
Chris Ross yeah my next Subaru will NOT have a CVT! They truly limit off road capability. Mine will be a third gen Forester with a five speed.
Had a Honda passport, very weak for off roading. Had six Jeeps, 4 Toyotas and now a Nissan Xterra and really enjoying its reliability and off road capabilities.
Very confident that my 2wd isuzu amigo can make this after watching this vid thanks. l will have to check this trail out.
You can do it!
I gotta make the drive down from Ottawa, Canada once this virus thing is done. You guys are a blast.
Andre Forget come on down!
Very nice comparison video Jon ! It seems that modern vehicles do better than older ones only thanks to traction control but at the end, only long travel suspension is making an offroader capable. I have a '97 SF Forester and what made a huge difference off road was installing long travel coilovers (60cm diagonal flex).
Vincent Windels I wish there was a long travel coil over suspension for the passport. Maybe I can find out who makes the Honda Ridgeline trophy 🏆 truck 😂.
But you know what? If I found out, I wouldn’t have the million dollars to buy the setup 😢.
Interesting vlog. Look like youall having fun. Take away - it was a Jeep commercial. I sold my JK Sahara and have on order JT Rubicon can't wait.
Richard Durant I’m in Death Valley with the rubicon gladiator right now. The JL’s are awesome vehicles. Honestly, it’s the only vehicle I’d trade in my Passport for right now. I’d probably go with a JL sport Willy edition (4 door), nothing too expensive. I think that’s all I would need.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring saw a Willy's at dealer. Best deal for Jeep.
cool to see all the platforms out there
@wassliving, I was honored to be a part of such a diverse group (vehicular wise)!
This was such a fun trip! 🦅
Even though it started raining on us @ the end 🌧
Good Times 😎
Hello gang! Looks like a lot of fun! I have to add, that Mazda/Ford does not have two live axles! But one in the rear, then a twin traction beam as it’s called in the front, basically a two piece live axle, but with a pivot in the middle, so it’s not a solid straight axle, with coil springs at both sides. I’m also very confident that Gladiator can go anywhere the others cannot! But probably cost more than the rest combined, minus the late model Acura! I’m also confident my 2019 Colorado Crew Cab W/T 4x4,V6, slightly lifted 2” leveling kit, with longer travel Fox coil overs, matching rear shocks an Firestone Air Bags in the rear. With 32” Goodyear DuraTrac tires would pass through with ease. I was able to buy new with all the AEV Skid Plates and 84 month 100,000 Bumper to Bumper Warranty for a total of under 36k.
@K. R. V. thanks for watching and leaving a detailed comment. I agree with your assessment. I actually have some footage of a Chevy Colorado ZR2 going up a difficult trail called "Cleghorn" over here in Southern California. It's nice to see how easily it handles the trail. I wish the ZR2 came in a SUV form factor! I have a lot of on-road needs, and right now the Jeep Wrangler JL is the only off-roader that checks off the boxes. A ZR2 SUV would have too!
th-cam.com/video/Hlg41C-W9r4/w-d-xo.html
A Grand Cherokee would be a great unibody offroad vehicle.
@ATX Trent I agree! Actually, the driver of the blue Subaru Baja recently picked up a 2006 WK1 Jeep Grand Cherokee. He* was thinking about it for a while, but this trip affirmed his decision to make the move to Jeep.
That little Ridgeline is incredibly impressive - I thought it would do well but it seemed like it was doing even better than the subies. Wish they'd do a redesign of the front cus it is truly a great little truck
Errhka I was impressed too! Honda’s mid-sized AWD vehicles have a very advanced AWD system called i-VTM4 that not only has a traction control system, but it also has a electronically actuated twin clutch rear differential. It can appropriate wheel torque proactively and in real-time (as opposed to reactively). One advantage that Subaru’s have is that symmetrical AWD is in ALL their vehicles (except the BRZ), even in the entry level $20K Impreza! I’d recommend a Subaru for anyone looking to spend below $30k for a vehicle. For anyone spending $33k and above you can purchase a Honda Ridgeline or Passport. So, the reason I was impressed with the Ridgeline is that pre 2020 models have the Honda 6 speed with a 14:1 crawl ratio vs. the Passports (and 2020+ Ridgelines) have a 20:1 crawl ratio. I was very impressed!
@@JonDZ_Adventuring I don't know about Honda's i-VTM4 AWD systems, I do however believe that they must be as good as you say they are b/c I have a few Acura's & all of them have Acura's SH-AWD system & it is an absolutely AMAZING AWD system.
Clayton Crawford for 2016+ iVTM4 and SH-AWD is mechanically similar. The Acura’s are more RWD biased, the Honda’s are more FWD biased.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Interesting.
I love Acura's SH-AWD system so that it's really kept me from straying from Acura, that & the solid reliability.
I do love the new Honda Pilot.
I always find it funny when people say that AWD systems like Acura & Audi & Subaru are performance oriented only.
I've taken 1st generation 2008 Acura RDX off road in some places & it does well of course ground clearance has to be taken into consideration with but it does well, I've also taken a 2nd 2013 Acura MDX off road & it handled it with ease, they also do really well in the mountains on mountain roads.
This looks extremely fun!
Awesome video as always. I'm heading out to this trail at the end of the month.
That Mazda doesn't have a solid axle up front. It uses what's called a Twin Traction Beam. It's kind of like a solid axle that's been cut in half and fixed at the frame where the center diff is. Ford was big on using these in the 80s and early 90s
Thanks for the info Jason! Oh, some of us will be hitting up Death Valley tomorrow. Tuesday-early morning a Thursday. I’ll create a post in MtnRoo SD in case anyone is interested.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring go for it! Might be tough being a weekday trip, but maybe some people sitting at home avoiding the Plague will want out lol.
@@iluvdrt8776 haha! That's what I was thinking. MtnRoo SD has been super helpful with info. The Wife and I and two others are just winging it I guess.
Confident with my 2008 MDX to go somewhere in near future. Thanks
Big Takeaway: articulation is key. You could really see the Ridgeline, and Subarus struggle once they put a wheel in the air... the independent suspension just doesn't allow as much flex. On the other hand, the Navajo, Gladiator and Rodeo were easily able to articulate and keep their wheels on the ground, making it look easy. That Navajo probably has open diffs front and rear too!
Side note, this video made me feel more confident about taking my old school, 2000 Ford Expedition (lightly modded) up Old Dale. It's a huge vehicle, but lots of ground clearance and a solid rear axle... should be no prob.
@Justin Janich that's how I feel about it. I know a lot of traditional off-road guys say the main difference is a low gear transfer case (and I agree, that's part of it), but the main thing is a vehicle with independent suspension has to first overcome the lack of articulation. If you watch the Acura MDX in this video, he actually had his rear sway bars removed, and that really helped him maintain traction throughout.
I'm glad this video helped you realize that your Ford Expedition will easily tackle Old Dale road, Have fun out there!
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Thanks for the reply and happy wheeling!
You missed out on a Nissan Xterra open diffs all around but more video to come that later. I don't think he the Nissan Xterra even sweated. On any parts of the trail.
With a lifted truck/suv we usually run that trail in 2wd. Next try the brooklyn mine trail. Its a little more difficult. But still an easy trial. We took a crv with a 2in lift and it made it. Just had to stack some rocks! Stay safe
Awesome video. Feels like I was there.
Leonardo López apparently there was 2 of you there... at 8:45 😃
JP is a lovely place to be in. Especially at night when the sky is clear.
D. Alex Oprea I agree. Well, I probably wouldn’t want to be there in the middle of summer 😃.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring I went there in May and it wasn't bad. It's not full on Summer around that time.
Awesome vid Jon! Can't stop watching it... Lol
John patalinghug thanks 🙏. I will not try to stop you from watching. Go on with your bad self 😎!
@@JonDZ_Adventuring 😆
Thank you! That was really cool.
QMMT thanks your watching and commenting 🙏
I wanna be there next time. I have an oldschool vehicle in the 90s that I want to bring. 😁 it's not a jeep 🤔 great video Jon. Love the whole trip. Be safe.
Thanks @DJ Hobbies! I made a Facebook group event page, please join up and hopefully we will get a trip together soon. I have a posted event for the weekend of March 28th in Mammoth, CA.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring i will do that. Right now mammoth is a little far but soon I will be branching out farther. I want to take a trip to Oregon too to hang out with coyote works for a weekend. Do you watch coyote works?
DJ Hobbies nice! Yes, I watch coyote works. I think anyone that has looked into overlanding has seen his Jeep burn down, hehe 😄
@@JonDZ_Adventuring very true. Funny thing is that was my first video i saw of him. Lol
Sahweeeeeeeeet crazy trail and fun trip!!! 🙌🙌🙌
SCTPASS 🤣
Great video!
This trail is a breeze for the Xterra...
Good job on the video
Thanks Dan Frentzel
Love your videos and Border line explorer ones, wish I could join
Like them all!🏜️
Nice work as always Jon, this was a really interesting cross section of vehicles and drivers complete with a satisfying dose of insights, JonDZ magical powers, Fiat jokes, and epic oohhhhhhhyeeeeaaahhhs.
softroadingthewest 😃 it was such a pleasure to put this video together. I love the variety here!
Made round trip when 07 tacoma was complete stock. Was nervous seeing 4x4 trail sign at entrance but never had to use 4x4. You certainly can do it but personally would not take regular clearance suv there. But looks lot easier now with those stacked rocks.
Benny H that’s a good point you bring up. I personally would not take a stock height Honda Passport up here. 9 inches minimum with careful wheel placement for sure!
Fantastic stuff. Interesting to watch how each vehicle deals with the terrain and how the 4wd, awd, lockers and tc work to get you thru. Did the Mazda Explorer have an open, lsd or rear locking diff?
The Bad Bug it was a sight to see, I really enjoyed this trip!
The Mazda Navajo is open diff 4wd and no traction control, however it has gobs of articulation.
JonDZ Adventuring cool & thanks for sharing this adventure with us!
Wait untill the New 'INEOS' Grenadier Comes out !!! Very Exciting stuff !!
brian jones thanks for sharing, I looked into it but it seems like the project it super hush hush. I’m not even sure how it looks like 😃. I like the idea and vision though! I’ll keep my eyes 👀 peeled.
They’re getting engines from BMW. That’s not horrible, but it’s not good. Reliability is king overlanding, and BMW is... OK.
I noticed a lot of the rigs here are running the Falken Wildpeak AT3’s. How do you like them off-road?
There’s no doubt that I would not be doing the trails I’ve been on lately if I was still running my copper discovery AT3 4S. The wildpeak AT3Ws are a solid tire! Good value, good on rock, snow, ice and rain. I hear they suck in mud, but I haven’t had a chance to test them out yet. A/T’s in general aren’t so great in mud.
Wish I had trails like this, only desolate muddy mountain trails in Bulgaria for my '04 Isuzu Dmax.
😂 from Italy but it end up being from here 😂 . . . Great video . . . !! 👍🏻
Good video. Thanks for sharing. I'm finally going to go for four-wheel-drive, but I'm wondering what vehicle do I really need? This road looks like a great 'standard'. *So let me ask here. What would be a good vehicle to drive a road like this?* I don't want to rock-hop, I just want to be able to go without getting stuck. Any or all of these models? My best guess so far is a 4Runner with a couple inches of lift. But I don't really know. (I get the feeling it'll cost me at least $10,000 excess dollars, but less than a month to find out.)
WillN2Go1 a 4 runner is a good choice. What generation where you looking at? The newer 4 runners have 9.5 inches of minimum ground clearance and 18 inches of maximum ground clearance. You won’t need a lift to do a trail like this, and you’ll actually be able to do harder without modifications.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Thanks Jon this is good information. I like solo travel, boondock camping (sounds so much more civilized that 'dirt bagging') but I don't want to become a problem. What generation? I haven't a clue. Great to know a 4Runner would be able to do this trail. One thing I don't want to do is buy the wrong 4Runner, some are 2WD, the V8 apparently have rubber timing belts and so after 100k are risking wrecked motors. I really like seeing the different types of vehicles going over the same challenge, it's a lot of useful information.
Awesome video! The Navajo has the Twin Traction Beam front suspension - not a solid front axle:)
Miki Plavin thanks for pointed that out!
@@JonDZ_Adventuring keep up the great work!
I felt like I watched the special Olympics of off-roading
My exact thoughts.
Exactly. A stock 4Runner on 30.5 inch all season tires could do the track no issues.
@@DaciaProject read the trail review section about the trail, lots of 4runner and Jeep Wrangler guys. But here's what a "lifted" 4runner driver had to say:
"We started from the south side. Beginning was just a wash road. Only technicalities come in middle of trail when on mountain. Definitely clearance and 4L. But pretty smooth after that. We did run into a vehicle stock height and not a good day for him. Plan in doing it again with more time."
www.trailsoffroad.com/trails/1181-old-dale-road
Tooo funny
🤷♂️
World have been nice if you mentioned in the video which are unibody and which aren't. For some you did, others you didn't. Easy to look up, but with the number of vehicles in your vid would have been nice if you just pointed out out.
My takeaway is that I still don't really like my Outback, they didn't do very well on this trail and mine isn't lifted so it would do worse. I need that 6th Gen 4Runner to come out already!
Mike Thompson I don’t want the current gen 4 runner, and ... I really thought about waiting for 6th gen. It’s rumored to come out end of this year? I haven’t even seen spy photo’s or testing, I wonder when they will really be released. There’s a lot of rumors circulating, one of them being that it won’t share the same platform as the Tacoma, but with the new Tundra instead.
JonDZ Adventuring yeah, lots of speculation right now. Hybrid, diesel, V8, etc... last I heard was 2022.
2022-2023 for next gen 4runner. But, Toyota said 2023-2024 will be next gen off-road marketed Land Cruiser at significantly reduced price.
4runner v8 is what we need
mynamesjeff no, I am waiting to buy one until it gets BETTER fuel economy! Haha
interested in buying passport, was looking at 18" x8 wheels et 55 from Ridgeline and Pilot.
whats the spec on your wheels/tires?
KMC XD820 Grenades
18x8 with 38mm offset
34.17 lbs
I only saw the xterra once, boooooo
Mall_Crawling_X I’m sorry 😟. After the first obstacle, he was up front so I wasn’t able to record him. He was 2 vehicles in front of me, so I was able to see him do well. He’s experienced with a capable vehicle. It was a walk in the park for him.
So rad!
Very nice and interesting video. I was surprised how hard Subaru had to work on this in comparison to some other 4WD trucks (Isuzu, Jeep). I've always been a big fan on Subarus on the snow but looks like their AWD system is not that great for off-roading. I think its the AWD not body of frame vs uni-body issue. What I see is that Subarus AWD takes time to transfer torque from sleeping wheel so not all 4 wheels are pulling at the same time. Some kind of central lock would probably help a lot. It would be also interesting to know how much each vehicle was lifted and what tires were used. Thanks for posting.
68jellybelly Subaru’s actually have a full time AWD, but as you mentioned they are open differential. The Mercedes ML163 has a 4wd system with 4 low, but it’s unibody with full independent suspension. From observation, it looks like wheel articulation was probably the biggest factor here. The Mazda Navajo (Ford Explorer) has a traditional 4wd system and 4 low, but it has open diffs and does not have a traction control system.
Surprisingly, the 2007 Acura MDX got up with very little issue. If you were to ask most people what would be more capable (an Acura or a Subaru off-road), I bet 99% people would think the Subaru. The MDX is a 2007 model! It’s heavily underrated. The Honda’s and Acura’s here are different AWD systems compared to the Honda CRV. A lot of people don’t know they have a twin clutch rear differential.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Yes, the Honda, Acura and Mercedes did great and looking at newest Land Rover offerings maybe technology is so good now that unibody with independent suspension is the future? The other thing which is not helping those 5th gen Subarus is the CVT transmission but I don't think this car was designed for off-roading even though some ads say different. Btw I had 2 manual Outbacks (1999 and 2007) and I loved the cars until they started breaking around 160k miles.
Wait for it, wait for it...Double Rainbow.
I was surprised to see the MDX complete the trip.
@jay JanyH hahahaha! This was my first double rainbow and I was very excited to see it! Not only did the MDX complete the trail, but he killed it! I was impressed with that 13 year old Honda. I can only hope mine lasts that long.
@jay janyH I've been in worse trails with my MDX. That was a walk in the park. :-)
John patalinghug apparently Acura SH-AWD has been severely “underrated” for close to two decades!
@@JonDZ_Adventuring yes they are... It's so 😥 hopefully with your videos. They can see what this SH-AWD can really do :-)
@@JonDZ_Adventuring it's a Honda.. You'll have it for years to come. As long as you take care of it. It will take care of you :-)
Is the ML (w163) stock height? Or were there spacers?
Either way, makes me proud as I daily a ML.
Ku-Lungy Dragon Li he was lifted 2 inches, but I don’t know how he did it. The ML is a sweet ride!
I just bought a 2001 ML 320 and I'm gonna raise it 2" and put 31" or 32" Ridge grapplers on it... Can't wait till its done!
Stock vs stock I believe unibodies can be quite capable.
I think where we really see the limitations of many unibodies (not all) is aftermarket support and more extreme modifications- long-travel and SAS become more difficult with a unibody than a BoF for example.
My old stock R50 pathfinder was a little beast off-road for what it was- compared to my titan-swapped (long-travel) locked xterra though it might as well have been a high clearance car- That said when the N50 xterra was stock they were 'comparable' in performance.
DRTMaverick that’s an excellent point you bring up! There’s really a limit on how much you can modify the modern unibody!
Rooftop tent before lift? lol. Cool video btw
Irv_gotti94 🤣 he was lifted with a wheel/tire package first 😃
Good video. Do you figure the less capable vehicles in your group would have made through the tough sections with greater ease with an experienced driver at the wheel who would know how to maintain a bit better momentum?
Terry B there were many beginner drivers here. We had the Camera guy driving the Isuzu rodeo, the Honda Ridgeline and Grey Passport we’re first timers, and the outback with the RTT was a first time as well.
I was there to spot people and give them a really good line. Momentum will be learned with experience. Having a good line everyone got over all the obstacles nobody got left behind. Also learning just like the one off-road finesse is very key. As people learn more they learn how to left foot brake by the brake and gas the same time for ultimate finesse in rock climbing.
@@adventuretrails1ato It appears you are making it up the hill but isn't all that tire spinning the opposite of Tread Lightly. & wouldn't it be more responsible to either get a better 4*4 rig or do less difficult trails to leave it in reasonable shape for others to enjoy.
???
ELEPHANT in da rooom!!!
What kind of tent stakes /ground stake was that someone was using the impact drill on?
My takeaway? The Honda's and Acuras seem to do better than Subarus. Makes sense, I've taken my 08 RDX some crazy places following big ole bubba trucks.
Hey JonDZ. Thanks for yet another great video. You slowly became some kind of an idol for me. Your videos really help me with decisions like transmission choice, gear etc, and cause of that I decided to open a discord server for those like me that dont have the ability to go adventuring as much as they would like. The server will organise online GTA V meets as well as providing place to discuss and post whatever one wishes about overlanding. Would you mind if I share the server here? If theres a problem I am ready to take responsibility and delete this comment.
May I share your videos and website there and as well invite you to be part of the staff. Im contacting you here since I dont have an instagram acc. Please excuse me in advance if I am violating a channel rule.
Umbra says, you can post anything in these comments. Thank you for all the support starting back when I first started doing video’s. I’m actually out in Death Valley right now with the Gladiator and the Mazda. We are practicing social distancing 😃.
Umbra says one day, we need to go on a trip together!
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Cant wait for this day to come!
Discord link is: discord.gg/ewBSBK
I’d love to see how a gx470 would do. Hit me up next time!
GX Overland I checked out your channel! Great stuff! I like your product reviews and the rig walk around you did! I subscribed and looking forward to more of your content. You’re a great speaker! (Btw, My Brother in law is a Pastor as well). Please join a Facebook group I created called “crossoverlanding (event hub)”. It’s meant to be Non-brand specific and non-group oriented. I’m hoping it will turn into a place where like minds can get together and meet up. Unfortunately, we will have to wait until Covid 19 isolation orders end in May to get back outdoors.
Why no video of the xterra?
Sorry @uknow trudo. The Xterra driver was up front after obstacle 1, so I wasn't able to record him.
My girlfriend and I had to chuckle watching this video looks like quite a few people riding the struggle bus on that trail
djarizona well, I am glad I was able to make you chuckle 🤣. There’s all sorts of people watching this video, from experienced Jeepers like yourself (I clicked on your profile and watched you climb up some rough terrain in your Jeep), to city slickers from Europe that think this trail is super rocky and difficult (which it isn’t).
The rear lsd on that stock Subaru Baja is prob shotZ they usually wear out relatively low miles. Pretty much open front and rear now
Israel Hinojoza that’s a good point, mechanical LSD’s degrade overtime. The Baja’s LSD is still working. We did the 130 mile Mojave road together (check out the two previous video’s) and it was working. The general consensus is that Brake based traction control systems like Toyota’s A-Trac are superior to the LSD’s they would use in their land cruisers, and this is something I observe and agree with, but I bet the Baja’s LSD has seen better days and was probably more effective when it was young.
That looks like fun. That's cool that some people actually take their subarus and crossovers offroad. Also cool watching computers braking wheels and trying to move power around to get traction. Maybe I missed it, but I didnt hear any mention of lockers and limited slips, which are better in every way than computers and "traction control". Im sure the jeep and maybe the Merc or rodeo had one.
All the Hondas / Acuras have rear LSD with traction control. The old Subaru Baja has a mechanical rear LSD, but with all the miles, it’s probably an open diff at that point. The Merc has a low gear transfer case, and traction control. All the other 4WDs are body on frame with alot more flex than the unibody AWDs. My Honda has come a long way since the making of this video. More flex and I have a “different front locker” now.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Bit of a stretch to call those electronics lsd's, but they do seem to work better than a traditional open diff. Interesting the subaru has a true limited slip, I'll have to check out more of your vids of your isuzu. Body on frame, a locker and disconnected sways will go anywhere IMO. No need to drop $60k in a jeep.
@@pressley10r they’re more aggressive than a traditional LSD. Technically they’re high biased LSDs because they try to put down 50/50 rear left and rear right at all times. The issue is the front open diff, when of the front wheels freely spins in the air, the rear diff can’t do its job. This is an old video and a bad example. I’ll link you a better video.
@@pressley10r here you go: th-cam.com/video/QOfD-H14F9Y/w-d-xo.html
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Very cool. Thanks for the explaination. I googled and found a vid with a breakdown showing the two clutch packs in the rear diff and how they can send some torque to the wheel with the most grip in the rear. Very clever, as long as it is reliable. I wonder if holding the brake a bit while in a stuck position would help it send more torque, like with a traditional limited slip or torsen. Also, very cool vid about line locking one wheel, I assumed computers could do that in awd vehicles as part of the tc or esc systems using the wheel speed sensors. Great idea though, only ever seen that in drag cars.
Takeaways: CVT Subies really struggle. Honda could use more articulation, not just ground clearance. 2007 Acura was impressive - what gives?! Mercedes M-Class is a known off-road sleeper (so is the Touareg). Modern Jeeps are crazy capable (even when over-stretched into a pick-up)
@sky Walker that's a really good assessment! Thanks for stopping by to leave a comment! I was the most impressed with the 2007 Acura MDX, actually the newer Honda's are supposed to have more articulation, but I think the driver is also super experienced (he claimed he wasn't, but I think he lied to me, haha!). With that said, you are correct about the Honda's, more articulation would really help out! I couldn't stop thinking about it, so I actually looked into finding a way to disconnect my sway bars. The front's look like more trouble than it's worth, but I found that I can disconnect a rear sway bar end link and strap it it out of the way in about 15 seconds. I made a video about it 2 days ago:
th-cam.com/video/Hlg41C-W9r4/w-d-xo.html
What happened to the Xterra?
ron topp he was up front and too quick to record him 😖
"I think the Ford Explorer has solid axles front and rear"....
I doubt it.
More likely, it has Ford's Twin-Traction Beam carried over from the Ranger and Bronco II, like other stock early Explorers had.
I just realized this is a year later, but, you're exactly right. I-Beam suspension on those early Explorers.
What is the bed rack system that white Honda Ridgeline has? I must know!
@Harrison Lauer, I've reached out to the driver, I will let you know if or when he gets back to me.
JonDZ Adventuring thank you! Does that Ridgeline have a lift and what size tires? I have a 2019 Honda Ridgeline BE. I want to overland it ASAP! Thank you for any information!
Harrison Lauer the white ridgeline (at the time of this video) is lifted 2 inches in the front only. He has since lifted the rear to match. You can only run 30.5 inch all terrain tires with slight rubbing, so I’m assuming he probably has 265/60R18 tires. The rubbing only happens at full lock but if you want to go taller you’ll either have to trim a 5”x4” rectangle out of your front wheel wells or purchase a Traxda 1 inch axle relocation kit. Check out this Facebook post from Traxda:
facebook.com/478955288821079/posts/2616271278422792/?vh=e&d=n
@@JonDZ_Adventuring What about the bed rack system?
Harrison Lauer I’m not sure, the owner has not gotten back to me.
How can I find a group like this lol I live in SoCal and just got a 2020 Tacoma off-road but don’t know anyone to go out on trails with.
Join us this weekend 10-16 to 10-18 we will be in the Calico mountains. A large group of us will be there.
instagram.com/p/CGYVYlOJ7S3/?igshid=vcr81uf39rxc
19:06 the baja needs to rebuild his front clutch pack,they do need rebuilding over time.
1:17 Why you didn’t take the Chevy spark with you?
Because that is a Scion xD.
Why not put the merc in low range? It would be easier on the engine and trans if it was in low range
Teddy Meredith I totally agree. He said it never occurred to him.
The Xterra did one obstacle only?
Agent. K. Sorry, he did all 3, but he was a car in front of me and I wasn’t able to record him.
Its not a compassion.
Its having great fun independent off-road overland time with cool friendly mates.
That's very true @O'wz ! I had a great time with everyone on this trip!
@@JonDZ_Adventuring so u consider jaguar and land rovers to be Indian now?
Is there a reason why you guys just didn't snatch Mohammed with a recovery rope at the 3rd obstacle?
c K that’s a very fair question. The vehicle in front of Mohammed had already made its way up the trail and was not in range. Backing down the mountain would be very risky.
I came in the picture and stack rocks and gave him a good line he got through.
What is the camper on the mdx?
IKamper
This is a very good and interesting video. It's very useful (sometimes amazing) to see what a modified crossover can do off road. But can you really have a comparison where some vehicles take a radically different line than others? (Extremely noticeable on obstacle #1). I struggle to think "unibody vs. body on frame" has much to do with the differences in off road performance. I believe the REAL differences in off road performance come from the tires used, whether or not you have a low range transfer case, and ESPECIALLY whether or not you have the articulation you can only get with solid axles. Having wheels in the air IS NOT good for off road performance, and that is FAR too common in vehicles without solid axles, regardless of whether or not they are unibody or body on frame. I didn't see anyone stacking rocks or traction boards under the Gladiator's tires. Modified crossovers can do a lot, but the IFS and IRS in most of them is not doing them any favors off road, almost regardless of how much ground clearance they have, and I think this video clearly showed that. The cry of the crossover is almost always "use more momentum" but speed is risky because that's when things break, tires come off the bead, etc. Still, it looks like a great day of wheeling, a fun trip and everyone made it out safely, which is what counts the most.
Videos, there’s a lot of variables in this video not just line choice and tires. We have experienced drivers and beginner drivers and up to 8 inches of difference when it comes to wheel base. I hope it was clear in this video (I think it is) that there’s a pretty dramatic difference in how the rear solid axle vehicles performed. There was a difference between Transmissions, traction control vs. no traction control. I think the video is pretty much in line with what you are saying, and I wanted to be a part of informing people.
With all that said. The Honda Passport is the best fit for me right now. It makes a great daily driver It gets me to where I want to go. A Modern Subaru may be a good vehicle for someone else that doesn’t need as much capability. The new Jeeps on the JL platform make a compelling choice because they’re now so much more fuel efficient while being arguably the most capable SUV from the factory.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Yup, everyone should try to use the vehicle that's best for them. And as you said there were many, many variables here. It's AWESOME that you're working to inform people about various aspects of off roading, and doing so by demonstrating different vehicles on the same trail and spelling out the differences between the vehicles and drivers. It is a great thing. From what I've seen here (and elsewhere), the new Subarus with their CVTs have really lost in the off road performance department, which is a bummer. Keep up the good work and, equally importantly, have fun doing it! :-)
@@VideosOffRoad The CVT really is what's killing Subaru's offroad capability. The old 4EAT in the SF foresters and the 5MT/6MTs are all really good. The problem with the CVT is it actually loses power when you get a little stuck. This means you lose power when you need it most. For this reason I always recommend to people thinking of buying a new Subaru who plan on taking it off road to go with the 6 speed manual crosstrek. I have a 5MT WRX wagon from 2002 and I have yet to find something I can't get over(given my clearance is adequate).
This has to be the first time theres more hondas in a offroad trail group than anything els
Xela Oso 😃 we didn’t intend for this to happen, but it was nice to see more than just mine! Did you see how well the Acura MDX did? His rear sway bars were actually disconnected, and that noticeably helped with his wheel articulation. I can’t wait to start disconnecting them during trails like this.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring This is such a great video! I was impressed with all the honda's. I just picked my 11 MDS up was have been thinking about lifting and doing some other mods like your passport and the MDX. Where do you get you parts if you don't mind me asking.
Thanks, happy traills!
can a fwd passport go off road? 😅😅
Alex Y Rodriguez Vazquez 🤔🧐
Hey.. if this lifted fwd Honda Fit made it up this trail, a fwd passport might be able to as well. BUT... he has a winch.
th-cam.com/video/HGuaREL0dds/w-d-xo.html
Impersonating an officer with those glasses 🤔
James Scheppegrell yes! $10 at a random gas station. I did a pretty exhausting hike (Angels Landing in Zion National Park Utah) and I love how sweat doesn’t collect around my eye balls. I’m a fan of the Police style shades 😎
Hey! You stole my Jeep/Italy joke.
bruceyyyyy 🤣🤣🤣 yes I did!!!!
Haha! There’s no doubt your video reminded me that Jeep is partly designed by FIAT. Did you know the new Grand Cherokee will be on the same platform as the Alfa Romeo Guilla??? So strange that a compact sports car and a mid sized SUV will share the same Chasis 🤔.
So, what I was really trying to do was make a joke about the AXIS powers (Germany, Italy, Japan) and that we had the Ford Explorer to battle them on. But because it was really rebadged a Japanese car I felt uncomfortable with the joke and I didn’t want to offend anyone, so I scratched the joke 🙂.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Offend away! I used to cut a lot of jokes but have stopped lately.
Don't care what Rich bastards own the company, just where it's built 😉
Richard Durant
And where’s that fiat built?
@@Agent.K. Ohio not really 'merica but 😀
I'll tell you something I was off roading and scratched all side of my subaru outback, fuck this is painful.
Elias SS the Outback in this video almost bashed into his passenger side fender, but .... it’s such a relief to avert damage like this. I’m sorry to hear about your ride. I’ve yet to dent my body panels, but I’m well aware that one day it can happen. Happy trails!
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Thanks for answering and I also congratulate you on this video, I had a lot of fun watching the Subaru and how they suffered with those CVTs
Elias SS haha! Awwww man, I don’t enjoy it. I really don’t. The general consensus is that Subaru designed it’s vehicles according to customers demands, and higher MPG’s (fuel efficiency) was on the list. Unfortunately, it was at the cost of some capability.
Now that Subaru is part of Toyota Motor Group, maybe they can start implementing the new direct shift CVT’s. These CVT’s have a physical first gear. Rumor is that the 300 series land cruiser will have some kind of CVT. No one knows what the future holds, but there actually may be hope for CVT transmissions. Only time will tell. Until then.... I’ll enjoy my automatic transmission and I’ll never be a “beta tester” for the automotive industry again. Lesson learned.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring interesting facts mate, you will have my support on your channel also I'm following you on instagram to don't lose any videos I'm following on youtube since the last year, you're going very well.
( I'm learning English) so if you find mistakes sorry about that. haha!
@Elies ss, your wording on here is good. No mistakes.