OVERLANDING: How much off-road capability do you "NEED"?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ม.ค. 2020
- #crossoverlanding #overlanding #overlander #toyota #honda #subaru #jeep #hondapassport #hondapilot #hondaridgeline #toyota4runner #toyotatacoma #jeepwrangler #carcamping #subarucrosstrek #subaruforester #subaruoutback #chevrolet #chevyzr2
So, we still don't have an official definition of overlanding in the Merriam-Webster dictionary, but according to the "Overland Journal":
"Overlanding describes self-reliant adventure travel to remote destinations where the journey is the primary goal. ... While expedition is defined as a journey with a purpose, overlanding sees the journey as the purpose. Overlanding is about exploration, rather than conquering obstacles."
So, how much capability do you need to go overlanding? Well, that's honestly going to depend on you.... it's your journey! - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
great video. i think there are too many people out there who have a specific definition of overlanding and project that definition onto others. basically telling others that what they're doing is not overlanding. what you said is true, you dont need all the gadgets and equipment to start overlanding. it is about the adventure, and quite frankly, sometimes the adventure involves figuring out what to do when you dont have certain tech and gadgets to help you out. Do you need lockers? no but they help. do you need a roof top tent? no but it's nice. Do you need ARB everything? No, it would be cool though. Are certain vehicles better suited? yes, but for what circumstance? Watching the end of the video i thought to myself, "I would take the rocky shelf" but thats because i drive an 80 series land cruiser. Now earlier in the video when you showed the subaru bombing up the muddy hill, i thought "oh id have some trouble there" thats because i dont have front and rear lockers....
Cruiser Shooter well said! I couldn’t agree more!
Your comment is so eloquent, that I’m gonna have to pin it. Thanks!
JonDZ Adventuring one thing I will say though, IMHO, a vehicle with CVT does have a disadvantage offroad. That’s a big thing to keep in mind when you’re looking at pros and cons when you’re looking for a vehicle for Overlanding. X-mode can only go so far. It can be done, especially since this video showcases an experienced driver using a CVT equipped Subaru up that hill, but with other variables to take into account when climbing like approach angle, clearance, speed, and possibly environmental factors, adding CVT manipulation would make me think otherwise.
Cruiser Shooter I use to drive a CVT Subaru so I can vouch for what you said. They’re actually not bad at all for light and easy trails, maybe even some moderate trails. But once they come across a tougher obstacle, particularly rocky shelves, they reach their limit. Also, we are seeing a lot of durability issues as well. 90% of all failed CVT’s need to be replacement with no option for repair. A valve body or torque converter replacement just signals the beginning of the end. It’s really unfortunate.
so, by your comment, I'm left to assume that you use the term overlanding to describe going 4wheeling for the weekend? Hey, not judging, because I do both, we sometimes go for a day, sometimes for a weekend, camping and 4wheeling. Then, we go overlanding, last trip was 9,500 miles, 5 weeks out . Usually one or sometimes two trips a year. Once we get west of the Mississippi River we traverse either back roads, gravel roads, forest roads, and a few unmaintained forest roads. "Touring" I prefer to call it, the great backcountry areas and regions of the lower 48 states. Do we go 4wheelin? Sure, we seek and find our campsites, located on unmaintained, or mildly maintained forest or BLM roads, way off, way off the beaten path. So, guys like me aren't, as you say, "projecting" any definition unto you or anyone else. The manufacturers of the products we may or may not purchase sure are though. It's been a really successful marketing campaign.
MOAK I’m saying that you don’t need all the high end gear to overland. Especially for those looking to jump into this passion. Rather, jumping in is how you jump in. Does length of an adventure define it as Overlanding? If one was to seek discovery and adventure on back roads and less travelled paths, who is to stop them and tell them they aren’t doing it long enough to count as Overlanding? If someone only has a weekend to spend and they want to call it something else, then by all means. I am saying that if Overlanding is defined by the adventure, then who are any of us to tell them that their definition is wrong?
They’re all capable, it’s just a matter of how much you want to spend. More will take you further.
This is hands down the best video I've seen explaining overlanding vs offroading, and why an expensive 4x4 is not strictly necessary to get out and explore the wilderness. You covered this far more thoroughly and eloquently than my silly highlight reel last week. Hopefully @bruceyyyyy will follow through with the similar project he too was working on. Together, we shall break down the walls of misinformation and misunderstanding, and free the would-be crossover adventurers of the world to venture forth into the wilderness on their own terms.
Oh, and...can't friggin' wait for that Mojave Road episode!
softroadingthewest you’re being way too hard on your self. Your editing and story telling skills are top notch! I may have nerded out a little more than you, but the video you released has all that Pizazz!
My inner conspiracy theorist believes that the marketing guys are having a field day with introducing overlanding to the USA. I can’t blame them, after all, we should always set out best foot forward, but there’s no doubt that a lot of people are confused about what vehicle they can take out and overland.
Thank you for the reality check, about the highway being 96% of the trip
That’s really all perspective. Some people just commute to work then head off to their trips on the weekends. If you wanna know yours set your trips on your car. One for your everyday and one for your outings.
Just recently found your channel and I have been enjoying all of your videos. It's great to see guys and gals getting out there in things other than Jeeps and Tacos. I have a lifted 2020 F-150, and a JK, but I am a huge fan of Subies and have owned quite a few of them. Too many bro dudes out there and way too many social media pages that make it seem like if you don't have a giant roof tent, elaborate rack and drawer systems and two solid axles and 35" tires, you shouldn't be out on the trail. It's all hype, I started overlanding over 20 years ago before they called it overlanding and I've done it in old Rangers, Rodeos, Subies and even a Ford Focus. Lots of people in the real world need a rig that can still do everything in everyday life and then get them on the trail after that so I think it's great that you are showing others that you can take your Crossover onto the trail and still see plenty of beautiful areas. Keep up the good work.
Great Vid man!! Love seeing the Passport conquer the rough terrain! Truck looks so impressive and I think many people are surprised at it's capabilities.
As someone who's been on both sides of the spectrum here, I think this is a good message. I think of it as more a set of sliders like you'd have in a video game. Slide the hardcore slider to the right (low range, lockers, lifts) and gain access to more trails and more freedom to continue when the trail takes a bad turn...but the mileage, livability, and general pleasantness sliders all automatically go left. The question of how much off road I need breaks down into 3 basic questions - What is my self sufficiency limit? What kind of terrain will I want to be my upper limit? How much civility am I willing to give up? Question one says that you need to plan for the worst you'll encounter, even if its rare because you will need the safety in that capability. Its happen to me at least twice when what was supposed to be a 2wd road turns into maxtrax, lockers and shovels - in some cases weather may make retreat impossible without additional capability. Question 2 is a matter of options - more trails, more routes, more terrain is open to you with more capability. Most of my trips are easy subaru terrain, but some locations are simply be out of reach without more capability. Having capability gives you more choice...at a cost of paying for that capability everywhere you don't need it of course. Question three goes to the heart of the soft-roading movement - do you daily something you climb into, is loud and slow and gets 13 mpg so you can have it all? or do you accept that a loss of some terrain is a worthwhile price to pay for driving something more livable?
Now I will add a caveat that capability mods [generally] make any vehicle worse as a daily and there is a definite upper limit for each vehicle where the capability/livability curve goes negative...where a small gain in capability comes with a large loss in livability. I.e. a 4 inch lifted forester with detroit locker and all sorts of body work cut away and 300 lbs of overland jewelry won't perform any better and be much worse to live with than a stock off-road specific vehicle like a 4runner...and the 4runner will last a lot longer at that level. The danger is getting caught up in the idea that a 3 on the slider rated vehicle, like a crossover, can be modded to a 6 level vehicle and in the process they, frankly, ruin the car. I guess my point is to just be aware of that tendency and don't be afraid to recognize when you're ready to sell what you've got and move to the next stage, if that's for you. The good news is that, as you've shown, there is a happy spot in the sliders for allot of people, with crossovers, that still allow access to a lot of what makes overlanding so popular.
Patrick Rich as always, you bring up really good points. I’m always glad when you chime in!
You bring up a really good point about modifying a vehicle to the point it’s strengths are weakened. When I lifted my 2015 Forester XT 2 inches, I noticed there was a reduction in onroad handling and driving dynamics, however gaining those 2 inches was much worth the bump in capability. I’m aware of the more extreme upgrades, I 100% agree with you that they’re not a good idea.
So far with the Passport, I did not notice any negative impact with the 2 inch spacer lift and 2 inch taller tires and I’m now looking to go with a 3.5 inch kit and 3 inch taller tires. I’ll let everyone know how it goes 😉
@@JonDZ_Adventuring just to be clear, im not suggesting you are caught up in that trap or anything like that.
what are you hoping to gain from the additional lift and tire that you are missing right now? What I mean to say is; are you currently running into a clearance issue? more lift and more tire is mostly just more clearance, but 3 more inches of tire is going to really cut into your effective crawl ratio too.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Jon! That Passport will look "Boss"!! I'm dying to see it when you do!!! Hurry up! LOL!
Patrick Rich I calculated the crawl ratio I would have. Stock it’s 20.4:1, with my two inch taller tires is 19:1 and with 33’s it would be 18.3:1. It’ll still be better than even a stock Kia Telluride which is at 17:1.
What I’m wanting to gain is more ground clearance. Because the Honda Passport is a pretty wide vehicle, anywhere from 6-8 inches wider than a Subaru, I feel it’s best to make sure I have enough ground clearance at the side skirts, which is only at 14 inches. Another reason I want to go with a taller tire is to get a little more footprint and a little more sidewall and a little more articulation from an Aired down tire. Speaking of which, that’s what I feel is the biggest issue with the passport and other IRS vehicles, “The lack of articulation”.
Ram14250 I’m working on it. Actually will be ordering the new kit soon. As far as the new tires, my 265/65R18’s are at half life and I’ll be needing new tires by years time.
Great video , very inspiring for someone like me that is bran new to this, and can't afford a huge vehicles I'm told I will need. Earlier this month I bought a 2018 jeep compass trailhawk. A vehicle I'll drive to work and still get me outdoors , plus I really love the look of it.
Funny I came across this video, because today is the first time I've ever (gone off roading) and it was at Hungry valley. I plan to go back many times to learn to drive my Compass. Thanks again for the video
Great video! Thank you for sharing these experiences with us.
Great video explaining the distinction between offroading and overlanding.
As usual Jon, veryyyyy informational!
I found that very satisfying to watch, strangely mesmerising :) I could watch it all day, so thanks!
Sue Clarke you’re very welcome, I’m glad you are satisfied!
As a Tacoma prerunner owner, watching that prerunner make it up that incline gave me the confidence to start overlanding!
Alex N the general consensus is that a body on frame vehicle with atleast a rear solid axle with a rear locker has similar capability as an open diff truck. There’s many places you will be able to take that thing!
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Thanks for the info! You definitely earned my subscription
Really enjoying your videos you shown that you don’t need super modified vehicles to have fun thank you and your friends so much
WendyCity thanks for watching and stopping by to leave a comment. I really appreciate it!
I was mildly confused but the first 2 minutes of this video cleared literally everything up. Great vid. It also made me realize I'm 100% an overlander.
Samu The Frog thanks! I too am a 100% overlander.
Great job brother! Can't wait for the next adventure.
John patalinghug I’m looking forward to the Joshua Tree trip. I haven’t taken the Passport to Old Dale road yet, I’m excited!
Awesome video!.. great examples and wonderful explanations.. thank you
R. Sean Griffith thanks Brother! You’ve been doing this stuff for a while now and you have been on epic Baja California trips! You’re living proof that you can overland and get to wonderful places in a non-traditional off-roader (your heavily modified Subaru Impreza!)
Ok, so let me say I'm still bothered you ditched your Subie, but I love your heart, and enthusiasm, and of course your videos. Keep up the good work browski.
Thanks @Tito! Subaru still has a special place in my heart. If it wasn’t for them, there wouldn’t be much of a need for off-road capable crossovers.
Great vid! I coulda watched that hill with your info all day lol
Dylan smeder thanks! 🙏 my plan is to use this place as a regular area to compare vehicles. If you’ve ever watched TFL (the fast lane car) they would use this hill in Colorado called “gold mine hill”. What ever vehicle that made it up was deemed pretty off-road capable and many awd crossovers were not able to complete it. I like the cement shelf climb because this obstacle doesn’t really deteriorate, it’s a consistent obstacle.
Good video, thanks for sharing ✌
OverlandTrax thanks bud! 🙏
Great video! Basically pick the trail that is suitable to your car’s(suv, crossover, minivan, sedan, pickup,etc) capabilities if you’re overlanding. Off-roading tough terrain you better have a 4x4with either Atrac or rear lock or both.
I'm happy with my 2017 Honda Ridgeline,will be getting lift kit and a/t tires .
Nice talk! So great knowledge presented!
great info ty ✌️
I can’t wait to get my 2012 AWD Highlander out on some Florida trails.
Haha - I want to get into overlanding but the vehicle I currently drive is literally "my mom's stock Honda CRV." 😄 As I go to get my own vehicle, your videos are very helpful. Thank you!
WoodlandK9 😄 hey, If you have an AWD CRV you can still get to many places.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Jon's right! Go check out Silver_rd1youtube.
I have gone places very similar to the places shown in the overlanding videos On TH-cam in a 3/4 ton regular cab 4X4 GMC pickup. We always carried plenty of tools, an axe, shovel and a handyman jack. In addition we always went in a group and carried more than enough food and water in the event we got stranded. We camped in a tent and have a great time. Don’t invest too much money and have a great time!
nmelkhunter1 sounds like you have all the important essentials 👍. It’s so great to be prepared!!!
I'm about to lift my Prius with a big ass light bar. I hear this combo will get me through any obstacle.
shohokuslamdunk More power to you! Good luck? 😃
As long as your tires are big enough!
tema4x4.com is where I got the lift for my Prius
***Please note: Overlanding is NOT about “Elitism”, and thank you guys from Europe and Australia that have been chiming in on this. In the USA 🇺🇸 we have a lot of paved roads, and many have the wrong idea about what overlanding is.
Now, with all that said, it’s up to you determine if a trail or obstacle is beyond your vehicles limits. In a unibody crossover that lacks a solid rear axle and low range gearing, a trail will be more difficult.
@biggsly5000 writes "I think someone should point out it is easier to go down obstacles than go up them. Keep that in mind if you want to get back the same way you came." I think this is an excellent point! It's important to think about!
Many trail websites and smart phone apps will depict inaccurate trail info for crossovers. This is why I have made a website. Check out:
crossoverlanding.com/trail-database
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In case you miss it, I have a preview of my 135 mile overlanding trip through the Mojave road starting at 11:04.
Did you just say "a 9 speed ZF transmission"? When did Honda start using German parts? ZF is a great company.
Travelin' Ted for a while now. But the 1st version of the ZF9 was problematic for Honda and Jeep. For 2019, the 2nd version is being used. So far so good, but only time will tell.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring
I know that Ram has been having great results with their ZF-8 transmissions. So, I'm sure the 2nd Gen ZF-9 transmissions will be great as well. Btw, thanks for the quick reply back. I like the looks, interior room, and powertrain of the older version of the Pilot.
JanDZ Adventuring What about older trucks like Big Broncos like this. Will they make it ? th-cam.com/video/tvfO78JNcJQ/w-d-xo.html
So happy with my SH forester xt on the road, cant wait to do some mild trail roads/ camping stuff in the spring. Looking to do a lift and throw some AT tires on it.
Aaron Burela that’s a good ride and will make an excellent adventure Mobil. Are you watching Donald and Softroadingthewest? Great guy with lots of idea’s for the SH Forester.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring absolutely, the guy is an amazing documenter! I'm taking a lot of inspiration from him, and other subie guys online.
Great video, well put
Great video as usual mate! Love your take on the meaning. IMO Overlanding is just camping or should I say glamping, that's all it is.. we associate the term overlanding by spending lots of money on overpriced camping gear to put in our expensive rigs and travel mostly on fire roads to eat chimichurri tacos because that's how social media portrays it as. Tbh you dont even need a 4x4 to "overland" or camp even if you plan to take fire roads, primitive camp or even established camping. No you dont need a rooftop tent, and no you dont need a biolite or even a jackery. But there are a few on TH-cam I wont mention any names that the term "overlanding" is really portrayed as nowadays. I appreciate your videos tho jon cuz rather than making me feel jealous because I dont have the newest and lightest ikamper RTT to take on my 1 night overland trip, you help the offroad community get out and explore to places we can now go since you have gone through it for us and we know if it's safe to go or not. To some people it's fun find out ourselves but for some of us it's also great to know that these areas are safe and passable, as well as educate those who want to go to these areas if their vehicle is capable or not. Keep it up man.
Evol M3 “chimichuri tacos 🌮 “ WAIT hold up, that sounds delicious, so before I respond to the rest of your comment, I’m going to go look for these taco’s. BRB
@@JonDZ_Adventuring haha I'll join ya!
Evol M3 hahahahahah, I just re-read your comment and it made me laugh just as hard as the first time. PREACH BROTHER!
To be fair, everything you mentioned above are nice and all, but they’re just luxuries.
Thanks for the comment, it was EPIC!
If you go with friends you can go out with a Prius . Always someone to help. If you go alone you better have the best built rig you can get , a cross over alone. Hell no . Getting stuck could risk your life
fastfed f that Prius would get trashed on a high clearance trail (8 inches required), You bring up a good point though. I typically go out with others, but the times I did go out alone I’ve always proceeded with caution. I have never put myself in a dire situation because of that, and that’s the main point of the video.
Also, I need to point out that built out rigs generally become less reliable after heavy modifications. It’s best to just Avoid overly difficult terrain, no matter what you drive. That’s the overlanding way.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring get a winch and then you can talk all about how taking a crossover can work for oeverlanding. seriously!! I have a built truck and have been stuck with lockers, articulation up the ying yang, but a winch will usually always get you home. Do that to your rig!! without it its usless
fastfed f I plan to get a winch at some point 👍
The amount of off-camber traction you get with these Hondas is amazing. Too sad people just are out to beat them without trying them out. Even the frames are rigid to handle most offroad situations people will need in.
Aftermarket undercarriage plates and bigger tires can you more wonders
In the old days we would just say we're going camping, taking back dirt roads, we'll be back in a week or so! It's not difficult or confusing!
TRONA BORON yeah. Maybe there’s a reason overlanding hasn’t taken off in the USA, we have too many paved roads and not enough dirt. I called it camping up until recently.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring don't know what part of the U.S. your in, but out here California we have thousands of dirt road that take you to remote places..
TRONA BORON I’m here in California too. What I meant was that we don’t have 1000 mile dirt roads like they do in Australia. The longest trail I know of in California is the Mojave road and just did that a week ago.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring that's a nice run! Just did Ballarat to Goler wash to Baker and some side trails along the way. That took a three day weekend. Your right Aus. Is less developed...
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Heck ya man, it would be very cool if here in the states we had two tracks that go for even a couple hundred miles, unfortunately we do not. When I think of the Canning Stock Route, I just think, how cool is that, from New York to St Louis on dirt roads.. Its enough to make me want to move to Australia..
Great Video Jon! As informative as always. Great comparison videos of the different rigs and their abilities. It would definitely be good to get out there with you sometime just been so busy :(.
I personally love conquering obstacles and enjoy the journey as well. I think we are definitely a mix of both. For us, conquering obstacles can be part of the enjoyment of the journey. Besides the scenery and great talks around the campfire, its also feels good to come home knowing that you were able to conquer something that your vehicle was not always intended to do.
In regards to being properly prepared with equipment, proper tires etc. I think it is also good to note that driver improvement also helps with being prepared. For example, I personally like take harder lines to explore what my car would do in those situations (even if I know that there is an easier line). This allows me to know the limits of my vehicle if in case Im am faced with the same obstacle on a narrow path, I know how to either take it or turn my butt around.
Like you have mentioned with the cutting of the power when wheel slip is detected on the newer cvt model subarus, our older gen subaru doe not do that. On some of the older gen subarus they also had the vdc (vehicle dynamic control) and that also kinda seems to cut power when wheel slip is detected. My outback does not have any tractions control or vdc. Ours most likely handles traction similar to Wandering Forester. Overall I really like the raw subaru symetrical awd and do not miss the electronic assist controls.
the.rooted. progress well Marc, you know we are all pretty similar in the MtnRoo community, so I too like to go out and try to conquer obstacles, within reason atleast. Like you said, it’s good to practice driving up challenging terrain to learn what our vehicles are capable of 👍. So, what’s up? Let’s setup a day where we go to Hungry Valley and do a youtube collab. I’m pretty sure your torque locked outback will make it up that cement shelf climb with no issue. For others that can’t conquer this obstacle, no worries! It’s so rare that we will even encounter an obstacle like this on a trail.
Well said Marc, I couldn't agree with this more. I love just getting out into nature and seeing corners of the wilderness most people never will, but I also thoroughly enjoy when nature throws a few curveballs along the way and I have to figure out how to get my car past them.
I'm pretty happy with the traction control system on my SH, as it will kick in on diagonal wheelspin scenarios and get me up rutted trails that stop even 4x4s which don't have lockers. It bogs me down on loose or sandy climbs, but simply switching it off allows me to keep the wheels spinning and make those climbs. I do think what you have, the older Subaru AWD with no traction control, coupled with the Torq Locker, is probably the *best* combination.
softroadingthewest one thing I didn’t mention in this video was that one of the rewards of overlanding is “self sufficiency”, because you’re bound to run into issues eventually, and having to problem solve develops leads to this reward.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring will hit u up next time. Car is taking a break after this past weekends beating so Ill hit u up. Im looking to increase my availability sometime in March. Maybe we could get one big camp meet/event for my birthday?
And yes, do all obstacles within reason. The torq locker just makes things alot easier in comfort. The feeling that u know you got it vs the feeling... I hope I don't lose momentum mid hill climb is great. You have to drive it or ride along with me sometime :)
@softroadingthewest Thanks man!!
I would be quite happy with what your Forester has accomplished for you and where it has taken you as well. Despite the bogging down on loose and sandy hills, at least you have a button where once pushed off it allows you to let the wheels spin. On our 2015 FXT even though you pushed traction control off, the wheels still wouldn't spin. Some people said you would have to remove a fuse to completely turn it off. Thats too extreme for me so I never did that.
And yess, that is exactly what we wanted when picking up our Outback. Since we planned to do the Torq Locker we wanted to have the purest feel in response without having to sort through what the electronic assist controls were already doing. That way we could really understand our vehicle and its tendencies. So far she has done an amazing job with it and we still feel like we havn't reached her limits yet.
Maybe when I can finally make a video with Jon then I will be able to send it and have some one pull my butt out.
Very informative video I had an older first gen Forester she died last year I plan to replace her with a third gen Forester at some point soon. I was plain just a one inch lift but now I’m questioning that and thinking about a two inch lift, all because I’d like some extra ground clearance just for safety and just in case. Not a fan of the CVT myself.
Sweet video! Love this, but one minor complaint. Driving around obstacles is a huge no no. The rule is if you can’t do an obstacle, you need to turn around unless there is an official bypass. We just have a huge issue in Colorado with people going off trail.
So the SJ forester made it up the gravel side portion but not the rocky Boulder section of that obstacle. I still would have loved to see an attempt. I know the cvt likes to cut power at the worst possible time. Afaik a transmission cooler helps with that because computers being computers they cut power when you try to do something too stupid. That 4EAT is great though, my old 2009 legacy was a champ in slick conditions. Luckily we don’t have any steep obstacles like that where I live. It’s all pretty flat. I was out yesterday in my 2019 forester and came across maybe a 10 degree hill at the most. Came to a dead stop and it was snowy and muddy and we had rain/snow mix yesterday. Hit the gas and she went up without hesitation. I was pretty happy with that result considering I still have stock tires on it for now!
Good tires and ground clearance
This depends on how deep into the backwoods you want to explore. The reason people use trucks are for safety, simplicity, and durability.
Anything can make it on camping or exploring trips on bitumen or backroad fireroads. If you intend to have this part of your lifestyle, you need durability. Or else you will spend far more on repairs than the vehicle is worth.
As for all the camping equipment, and heavy wood storage systems, rooftop tents, etc; it's all a faff. You can make that as much or little as you want. There is something to be said for bringing a sleeping bag and minimal gear (if the weather permits, of course). Weight is the enemy, onroad and off. If the equipment is your hobby, that's another thing.
Experience will tell you what works for you.
Main concerns for choosing a vehicle: For many, it's a dual purpose vehicle. Daily use and vacation backwoods hauler.
If that's the case, turning your efficent street commuter into a poor handling, less efficent vehicle for most of your use is sacrificing 90% of your use.
If you intend to focus on a trail rig, then get something easy to modify and will be durable.
Even if 10% of the trip is offroad, that 10% can be more brutal than the 90% of the other use, for years to come. Remaining safe and reliable year in and out, abused and in sticky situation is why trucks tend to be popular.
I think basic vehicle requirements are:
-4wd (this is safety. You need the max traction capability you can get)
-2 speed transfer case (control is safety. saving your transmission, gearing is safety and durability)
-respectable ground clearance
-good AT tires
-the space inside you require
-ability to easily field repair
*of course it all depends. I see prerunners (rwd) all the time out in the desert.
basic equipement:
-med kit
-basic recovery gear
-your personal camp and food kit
-offroad navigation (digital and/or field maps)
the fundamentals of safety and capability are what allow enjoyment.
Excellent video that goes hand in hand with the one from softroadingthewest last week. I think there is definitely some confusion over what overlanding is vs off roading. I like that you made the contrast against expedition travel as well. I'll put a plug in here for Overland Journal since you mention them in the video. The magazine and related forum (Expedition Portal) are a great resource for trail info, vehicle info and support, gear articles etc. I've been an contributor with them for over a decade now I think. Lots of nonjudgmental help for folks at every level of the "sport". Excellent magazine, excellent people!
DavidT Medeiros thanks 🙏! I’ve been wanting to make this video for a while now, and it didn’t turn out exactly like I wanted, but felt I needed to release this before I start on my next video about crossing the 135 mile Mojave road overlanding trail.
Prior to embarking on this trail I researched a lot of TH-cam video’s, most notably the two by “trail recon”. In both expeditions, those built out jeeps broke parts and that really had me unsure if a crossover could complete the trail. Also, those video’s don’t go over the terrain that will need to be traversed. So... there’s broken parts, but really no trail info? Luckily I knew of a group of Subaru’s that completed the Mojave road back 2 years ago, and I was able to get enough info to come to the conclusion it was possible.
I have a full write up on my website. Here’s the link:
crossoverlanding.com/td-scal-mojave-road
John explained it much much better than I did. :-)
@@softroadingthewest I think your two videos are a nice compliment to each other. edited to add: it was this article by 4EXPEDITION on the Expedition Portal website that eventually got me out of mu Tacoma and into an Outback. expeditionportal.com/featured-vehicle-2017-4xpedition-subaru-outback-3-6r/
softroadingthewest LOL! Donald I swear, the reason I made this video was to prepare for my upcoming Mojave road video. It was such a coincidence we made this type of video at the same time. With all that said... this was fate! Things happen for a reason! It’s time to spread the word for the greater good of humanity... THERE’S MORE THAN ONE WAY TO OVERLAND. You don’t need a $50-65K vehicle with another $20-30k of modifications and equipment strapped onto it. You can sleep in your car, a hammock, or a tent, and not just a RTT. You don’t have to get 11-13 MPG. I can go on and on. So, what do you say Donald? Let’s issue challenges via Instagram? Bruceyyyy needs an instagram
@@JonDZ_Adventuring I really wish bruceyyyyy was on Instagram. We could have so much fun. :-) But he seems to love challenges, and I'm sure he'll read this in the next day or two. bruceyyyyy…consider yourself challengeddddd.
Excellent video!👍
Thanks Matt!
Glad to see you using all your capability. Hope you have a transmission cooler for all that crawling without a 2-speed transfer case. How'd you do the lift? I have a TJ Wrangler, but my MDX (Acura version of your car) hauls a lot more gear for camping...it just lacks clearance.
blurglide I have a ScanGauge II and monitor my trans temps. I don’t have a transcooler, but the highest trans temp I’ve seen has been 209 Fahrenheit. The Passport has the ZF9 with a 20:1 crawl ratio, so it’s not as prone to overheating. Actually, what I find overheating is the rear differential. Twin clutch rear diffs provide more capability than other AWD systems, but they will overheat when stressed. This is just in the 2016+ models of iVTM and SH-AWD.
There’s a good amount of aftermarket support for the Honda Ridgeline/Pilot/Passport. I made sure there was prior to my purchase. My Passport is lifted from 2 inch front strut spacers, 1 inch rear strut spacers and front control arms end links. It’s a very simple kit and very low cost. The handling and driving dynamics were not noticeably changed at all (I experienced a big difference after lifting my Subaru, but that involved subframe spacers, and the wheel base is more narrow).
Great video!
Matthew Heiskell ty 🙏
Very nice.
I picked up a 2001 Mitsubishi Montero Sport a few weeks ago that I'm contemplating turning into an overlander. I don't intend on doing any insane rock crawling with it, but just getting out and seeing some nature I don't see every day.
And maybe the occasional sand dune...
Jason Hunter that’s actually a really capable true off-roader. There’s a Southern California group of them. I saw about 10 of them, at this state vehicular recreational area.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring That's part of why I got it. I had a 2004 AWD RAV4 for about a year before I got the Montero, and I enjoyed that. I debated on finding another, that had less miles and wasn't as beat up, but couldn't find anything for less than $3k. So, I did some research, and settled on the Montero Sport. I wanted something sturdy and capable, but wasn't going to run me $5k or better to get into.
The hardest part, I think, owning a Mitsubishi that isn't a Lancer or Ecplise, at least up in the Pacific Northwest, is finding parts. Or information...
Hello Jon! You are right with this Video... By the way i sold my 2015 FXT finaly... Now thinking about the next Overlanding-Ride... Regards from cold Germany!
Standheizungen Rehbein I’m glad to hear you are one step closer to getting your dream vehicle! Toyota truck with a roof top tent? 😃
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Haha... thats the way... In one of your Videos i see a 4runner who performes well @ hill climb... :) That was my first plan and now i look for a V8 Troopy but hard to find here in Germany because the green ideology is little bit to much here... (Funny that you know it will be an Toyota with Tent ;)
Heyyyyyyyyyyyyy keep on makin awesome vids jond!!!!
ptahkeem ooooooohhhh yeeeeaaaahhhhh! Thanks Peter 👍
Ooohhhhhhh yeaaaaaaaaa
ptahkeem don’t text and drive Peter!!!!!! You better be using Apple car play voice reply!!! Wait... there’s no voice reply in TH-cam!!
JonDZ Adventuring ooooooooohhhhh yeaaaaa *siri voice* 🤣
im glad im on the right mindset i got an fj cruiser and some of my friends are just throwing shit like put a 3.5 lift and do 35wheels and I was like I'm not rock crawling over a moab why would I do that I want to drive to my destination in relative comfort and don't feel like I'm a captain of supertanker
Personally I like peace of mind, I think an FJ with 2” of lift and 33s or 35s looks and performs fantastic and adds peace of mind, without really affecting drivability. But in Overlanding it’s just different strokes for different folks.
My jeep guzzles fuel and is noisy on the highway but man I have pushed it through some challenging trails and it has not let me down.
The newer ones are getting much more on-road compliant and fuel efficient. I'm a big fan of the JL wranglers. The lateral grip in the JK's were at 0.63g and improved to 0.73g in the new JL's. A subaru forester does 0.76g, so the improvement is SUBSTANTIAL!!! Then you can get 20 highway mpgs in the new JL's easy, and now there's an ECO diesel! yeah.... I'm not gonna lie, I regret not checking out a new Jeep. I think all i would need is a Wrangler sport with a wheel and tire package.
Love this! I'd rather folks stick with wagons and crossovers. Then I can go places they can't and don't have to be surrounded by crowds. If all you want to do is drive down a few well maintained dirt roads then pretty much any car can do that. All terrain tires and a bit of clearance are you're biggest allies anyway. Sometime AWD is helpful in snow, mud or sand but for the roads you showed in this video nobody needs a Jeep or Taco. Keep buying crossovers and have fun! I'll be somewhere else!
Michael Fletcher I never run into crowds on the trails. It’s the OHV parks that get crowded and there plenty of Jeep, Taco’s, Raptors, side by sides and dirt bikes out there. We have a beach here in Southern California called Pismo Beach, that place is a mad house. I personally like the flexibility of not having to worry about fuel cost and comfort while driving 400 miles away in my SUV while getting 23 mpg modified, just to get away from everyone. Lane keep assist and adaptive cruiser control are awesome 😎.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Great! Like I said, I love that folks are using the vehicles that take them where they want to go. I've never been to an OHV park - sounds crowded - but I've been to a lot of campsites that are filled with folks (all having a great time) but I'd rather find some solitude. Love the video. Keep it up.
@@michaelfletcher1224 I've been getting lucky! I prefer primitive camp sites, hopefully somewhere with no fire restrictions. I don't like having any neighbors, makes it less problematic when having to poop the following morning :P
Excellent video, Jon! Too bad the camera didn’t catch my Outback re-trying the hill with TC off, and X-Mode on. It was much easier.
Christopher Fava that was my experience with my 2015 Forester XT. In almost all off-road scenario’s, it always worked better with traction control off.
Saving for a lift and tires for my subaru!
Phill you should save for differentials and ball joints too.. hahaha
@@VictorManuel-pf7se any reason why? I have had a lift on my other subaru for over a year with 0 issues.
Nice. I just lifted my WRX Wagon 2". I've done a few trips at just above stock ride height and it was surprisingly capable. Can't wait to see what I can do with the extra clearance.
The biggest factor on how far a car will go off road is the driver. No doubt about it. In Australia we need a 1000km range at least for fuel. Some of the smaller awd cars come up short with that because nobody makes things like auxillary fuel tanks for them. Another factor is weight carrying ability for gear and supplies. Having said that, a friends Forester did the Hay River Track and Simpson Desert last year. Both very remote.
mikehzz that’s an excellent point! Trail experience and skill is a big factor in not only how far you can take your vehicle, but also determining if you can take your vehicle somewhere! I really admire what you guys do out there in Australia and I’ve become familiar with your routes. I watch a lot of Ronny Dahl! Love that guy!
Kinda wonder how long some of the these SUVs will hold up in the long run. Both of our WJ Grand Cherokees Limited 4.7 V8 have over 250,000mi. My '01 has been wheeled for years with a 3" lift bit bigger tires, factory skid plates, limited slip diffs and tow hooks. Been very reliable and are great off road. Plenty of room for two to sleep in the back.
Awesome stuff!
Tony Tickles I’m looking forward to Joshua Tree man. I have the date set!
I hope to have my rtt set up by then.
Tony Tickles right on! Sounds like this trip is gonna be awesome!
Just bought the 2023 crosstrek. Was hoping to explore the northeast on some easier trails with some minor mods. Any tips?
Just that minute in video, in a stock jeep or landcruiser or 4runner, you know with a good 10" ground clearance and nice set of off road tires becsuse of the articulation it would have climbed the first hill without any spotter required. If need spotter its Downfall of going with less capable vehicles, but it's a trade off so i get it you made it and that's all that counts.
HuskyNoob my friend I did the Mojave trail with brought his stock height 2005 Subaru Baja XT with 9 inches of ground clearance. He was scraping on that part so I spotted for him. My Passport has 11 inches at the front skid plate, and did not scrape the entire trail 😃. That will all be in the next video, I’m excited to put it together. It was such a memorable trip for me.
I really enjoyed this video... BUT... I wanna see more of when that Subaru towards the end starts struggling. You cut THAT clip short, which, would have been a great show of when to either get creative and modulate thru it, or realize you're over your head, and backtrack/side step an obstacle.
Anyways, great vid, and I hope it gets more people interested in giving it a try, without going in debt trying to have the latest/greatest gadgets.
Wreckz Alottovdatime are you talking about the Mojave road preview? I post many things on my Instagram, check out this video clip. When Horsepower does work, Manpower might:
instagram.com/p/B7r_msmJPQU/?igshid=1jvyazgybuge8
For me the decision was more about the weight I am able to carry as well as having a transfer case so that descending with weight would be less daunting.
Larry Burke that’s good to point out. I’ve actually been curious about how crawl ratio / torque / and weight all correlate. I haven’t been able to find any related articles.
Great video. But why did he say no cvt engine has gotten up and then proceed to show several subaru outbacks getting up it.
I was talking about the cement shelf climb. Not the rutted dirt climb to the right.
The 2014 forester that went after the Lexus was offered in a cvt or a manual
Jim McGinley that’s correct! The SJ forester 2.5 was also offered in a manual. Both of the SJ foresters were CVT in this video.
LANFAIR is a great place to get out!🏜️
I like the dune soundtrack at the end.
jino h I play that song when I wake up in the morning. Right after showering and looking at myself in the mirror with my eyebrows clenched.
Naw, JK
So would my 1999 3rd gen 4runner 2wd be okay with overlanding? Cause i mean me playing around dirt with it does great. Its lifted and has mud terrain tires on it. What gets me worried are the slight rock crawling situations. or even muddy situations. I'll be installing air rear lockers as well on my truck to give me some what comfort to not get stuck.
You should be good, just make sure you go with a buddy. Incase something does happen
I’m in the Same shoes as you! Have you installed the rear air lockers yet?
That Jeep dude seemed impressed
When in doubt send it!
Brian James not gonna lie... I’ve had to sometimes. Especially in my 2015 FXT 🤣
Over 28k miles in one year 😮😂 you just got this bad boy too
I still haven’t upgraded my Forester much. I’m kind of leaning towards keeping it a standard daily while the 4Runner is truly built out as the weekend warrior. It’s just both are on a lease. So if any upgrades happen to either we’ll definitely have to consider buying whichever one is upgraded off its lease. And we still haven’t made the decision to keep either tho I’m leaning more towards the 4Runner. More capable and spacious. Just overall way more costly to run than a Forester. What kind of MPG are you averaging with the Passport? 16.1 for the 4Runner and 25.1 for the Forester tho I can easily stretch this to 26.7. A weekend overlanding/camping trip from LA to Yosemite in our 4Runner with the Tepui RTT for example requires 3-4 fill ups (1 each way, and 1-2 inside the park or around it depending on what we’re doing) and a full tank is minimum $70-80. Ofc that Tepui RTT adds 9” of straight wind resistance lol
Daniel Lin I use to drive a 2008 FJ cruiser, I know exactly how it is. I have a heavy foot, so I was really getting more like 13mpg Highway. With the Passport I can get 23 mpg highway as long as there’s calm winds doing 70 mph. Driving up highway 395 with strong winds and my MPG’s will drop down to 19 going the same speed. In the city, it’s a different story. Like I said, I have a heavy foot, so I’m getting about 15, but if I drive nice and relaxed I can get 18. I’m surprised at how long a tank of gas lasts. I was able to do 140 or so miles offroad on the Mojave road and I had just below a quarter tank left.
I hear the all new 4 runner should be coming out soon. I’m sure it’ll be more improved in the fuel efficiency department.
JonDZ Adventuring former FJ owner, so you know the whole poor mpg deal haha. It’s the only reason I’m skeptical about purchasing the 4Runner off its lease. The new one is a long time coming. Didn’t expect to see the new one come out for another couple of years at least !
I have a 2000 ford ranger 2wd with a manual 5-speed transmission, any thoughts on its off road potential? Just purchased a set of 30 inch wildpeak all terrain tires and increased the differential ground clearance to 9 inches. Eventually plan on getting a locker.
I'm about to do the same an have get off road tools to get yourself out as well, suck all the knowledge you can learn it too ,
also can't forget about a winch one for the front one for the back why you never know always be prepared I just brought all terrain Kenda tires too about to use them tomorrow
A rear locker will help tons!! Won’t be a rock crawler but it will do lots of trails!!
The Chevy Colorado has 47:1 crawl ratio in V6 form and 36:1 in diesel (a tractor though). Tacoma is 36:1
Hey! I was pretty close! 😃
JonDZ Adventuring
Yep!
You hit a good point when you mentioned nobody with a CVT transmission made the rocky hill climb. I would avoid those for normal driving even. Lol
MySuburbanHomestead I use to drive one. I had a 2015 Forester XT with 250hp/258tq and only weight about 3600 lbs, but it didn’t matter... it was connected to a CVT. I actually got stuck between curb sized rocks going slightly uphill and I couldnt reverse or move forward. I had good memories in that vehicle, but I don’t miss it one bit! Good riddance!
JonDZ Adventuring
I hear that a lot from others. They really were badass little vehicles before the CVTs though. I see folks in the deep sand driving with CVTs struggling here on the beach as well. Jeeps, Subaru, etc
We did thousands of miles in a Subaru Loyale, then a Forester!
Primitive Road, No Warning Signs the Loyale is a legit 4wd Subaru! Nice! 👌
To say your going overlanding you need to get to point A to point B with as little or no paved roads. To say that it's just glamping .. well the industry made it that way . You don't need all the fancy roof tents, fridge , etc .. you can pitch a tent right next to your rig and sleep..
Stephen Gomez you are correct! I just completed the 135 mile Mojave road a week ago. This is one of the few trails that I can actually classify as truly Overlanding, however it pales in comparison to the kind of overlanding in other countries. We just have too many paved roads and available facilities.
So great info shared here and good points made. Especially about if you can't make it turn around, but you keep saying drive around it. Treading lightly is not driving around an obstacle if you are going off trail. Just wanted to point that out.
David Dousay when I say “drive around it” I mean to turn around take a detour. Sorry I wasn’t crystal clear about but I think it goes without saying. I’ve personally have never come across a difficult obstacle where going off trail would be an easier obstacle. I think most trails are made with the path of least resistance in mind.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring no worries man. I just wanted to make sure we were on the same page. You seem to have it right, but didn't want people to get confused. If you can't go through turn around. Let's keep the trails open!
@Vladimir_Bone Spur_tRump absolutely you are correct. Thanks for bringing another good point to the conversation. By taking care of the trails that are available to us we keep them open.
Hey Jon, love your videos! Could you answer how the lift kit and tires have affected your Honda warranty? I'm making a new car purchase for 95% DD and overland about 5% of the time with it. I'm worried that the lift kit would void the dealer warranty.
MM Adventures that’s a good question! It’s been asked before so I have an answer for you. Typically wear and tear parts won’t be covered under warranty, but I know someone that has a Honda Pilot that he lifted 2 inches and they covered a torn/leaky CV boot under warranty (it was damaged when the lift kit was installed). It’s really hit or miss. Your best bet is to purchase one already lifted. I know another guy that purchased his Passport with a 1.5 lift kit already installed by the dealership.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Sweet thank you! I'll look for a jsport lisenced dealer and see what I can do
@@mmadventures2982 The guy that purchased his passport with lift kit already installed had the Truxx kit, some have the Traxda kit. Either kit should work.
Know anyone with an Ascent and. If so have they attempted this type of terrain?
Dan Frentzel I’ve seen only two Ascents during my camping trips, but I did not personally see them on the trails. They will basically perform very similar to the other modern Subaru’s.
2:15 that's utah. I just drove through there like a couple days ago
Yes it is! We toured Capitol reef and Goblin Valley and I would love to get back out to Utah! Such a beautiful place!
Hey Jon. I have been building up my 2019 Ridgeline. I have a Traxda 2" kit with 265/60-18 Nitto's on +35mm offset Jsport wheels. I WANT 32" tires. I saw your video on cutting your fender in that spot where all Honda's seem to rub (including mine). Can you tell those of us who want to know, has cutting that square out of the fender caused ANY adverse affects yet? Were you able to use the existing liner to cover it back up? (Using a heat gun and re-forming it, etc.) I'm thinking about doing it soon to my Ridge, but would like to know how yours turned out, and if you were really able to fit 32's without any rubbing. Thanks and keep the vids coming! I just subscribed to your channel. :)
When I did the cut, similar to a BMC (body mount cut that’s done on Toyota trucks when you try to mount 2 inch taller tires) I actually cut up and threw away my splash guard liners (like an idiot). I have 265/65R18 (31.6”) and without the liner there was ZERO rub, even at full suspension compression, even when airing down. I even felt I could run 255/70R18 (32.1”) with no issue.
I grew tired of the ugly look of not having splash guard liners. Actually, they really help keep the engine bay clean too. I purchased a replacement set and made the install. I do get slight rub now. I know it’s just the plastic liner. Only happens when I make a u turn so it doesn’t bother me. Eventually it’ll work itself out.
So, is that an adverse effect? I don’t think so. HOWEVER, I should have a plate welded on where I made the cut. That’s how the toyota guys do it, and to do it right, gotta reinforce anything that’s weakened.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Thank you!
@@jamesmeans6558 Hey James. Did you do your cuts yet? Sounds like the only place we need to cut is the bump out in the rear part of the front wheel wells. I just got a 2018 Ridgeline and I'm thinking of doing the exact same thing. Waiting on everything to get in, just have to decide on the 265/60R18 or 265/65R18. To cut or not to cut. Thanks again for all the info Jon. Good to know to to keep the liners. I think I'll try to either cut partially or heat gun it.
@@markbella7125 Hey Mark. No. I went and saw a friend who is a body tech at Honda. He told me that the area I want to cut is a crucial structural point on the RL. He said I could do it, but I would need to have someone weld a piece of metal back inside the cavity to regain the structural integrity. It will cost too much for me to have all of this done.... and I'm not sure if if my efforts to "make a Ridgeline into somethings its not" would be worth it at this point. It is what it is. I love my RL and the modifications I have done so far will get me out into most trails / mud / etc. But it is NOT a rock crawler.. wasn't made for that purpose. Wish it was! Good luck if you go this route and post up your results if you do.
@@jamesmeans6558 Good to know. That might have helped make my decision for me. Seen plenty of great looking G2s with 30.5" A/T tires out there. I'm not trying to rock crawl or do heavy trails either but do want to get off pavement some. For me the Ridgeline is perfect for 99% of my needs, the small extra off road capability is just a bonus for me. I think my 2" Traxda and Wildpeak 265/60R18s will do just fine for that and if I ever do get more serious then I can sell and get a Taco:) What else have you done to your Ridgeline? Would love to see some pics or video of another G2 with a similar setup. I'll be posting up pics and video most likely of my build. Other than lift and wheels/tires, I'm chrome deleting, tailgate lock, rear door mods, jsport steps and maybe AEM cold air intake.
Where can you find a place like this to become more comfortable with you vehicle off road?
DaBotGizmo the practice area in this video is at the Hungry Valley state vehicular recreational area in Gorman, California USA.
Where I’m at in Southern California, there’s a couple of mild to moderate off road trails that are great barriers of entry for beginners. Nothing technical at all, just dirt roads and rocks along a mountain trail. One that I often go to is in the San Gabriel Mountains at the San Gabriel OHV area. There’s multiple hiking trails and an obstacle course for 4x4s as well as an off road trail I like to frequent for AWDs and 4x4s that goes from Azusa to Glendale. Amazing views and not technical at all. Not my first off roading experience but it should’ve been. I started with a moderate trail that I eventually had to turn around on. But for this San Gabriel OHV Rincon trail, I’ve driven my old ‘18 Crosstrek, my ‘18 4Runner TRD Off Road, and my ‘19 Forester Sport all without airing down my tires, which goes to show you it’s pretty easy. There are rocks you have to watch out for obviously, especially if you don’t air down. The trail does require a free permit you get at the USNF office in Azusa.
Daniel Lin thanks for the info! I’ve never been there. I’ll have to check it out sometime.
So I can do this with a 2wd Tacoma? It’s stock now. How much can I do with it as far as adding capability?
2-4k budget
Good tires 🙂
Check out this guy with his 2WD Tacoma. th-cam.com/video/Ur9AbW3v6Uw/w-d-xo.html.
Winch, recovery boards and bigger tyres. I have a 2wd ford ranger with 33inch mud tyres and factory rear diff lock. No lift kit because the 255/85 R16 fit with out rubbing. You will learn what you can and can't do in time.
Im going to be doing all this on my Honda Element
This is the place to test out to see what your element can do!
JonDZ Adventuring...only if I was still on California but where I’m at now is even nicer lol the great Pacific Northwest Oregon and glad u made it out here to explore with Donald from Eugene awesome adventure ya had!
I'm really torn between and element and a pick up truck
The element is such an utilitarian car, love that
@@JonDZ_Adventuring 2wd 4wd
@@JBarraza I selling my element
I'm researching for my first overlanding rig. In full size pickups, does a 2500 have a big advantage over a 1500?
A 3/4 ton truck is a pretty big difference size wise to a 1/2 ton. I’m not expert, but here’s what I think:
Advantages of a 3/4 ton truck:
-Towing and payload capacity. good for if you plan on having a heavy build.
Advantages of a 1/2 ton truck (vs. a 3/4 ton)
-More maneuverable. This is the biggest advantage I could think of. Some trails, especially in mountain passes are just too small for a 3/4 ton truck.
-better offroad angles, especially break over. Unless the 3/4 ton truck is rocking 40 inch tires, and a giant lift, the break over angle will be an issue.
I think most people choose between a mid sized truck or a 1/2 ton for overlanding. There aren’t many people going the 3/4 ton truck route.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Thanks. I was wondering if the transmission and drivetrain components in a 3/4 ton are stronger. I wasn't aware of the difference in size.
@@bradh6185 I have no idea, but I'd assume they'd be beefed up to handle all the extra weight. So here's some side by side specs. What most people have issues with is the turning radius on mountain trails. I'm not sure what terrain you'll be on, turning radius won't make much of a difference in "open field" muddy terrain, but out here in the west, there's a lot of tight trails. I actually just did the Fins N Things trail in Moab Utah. That trail is very very tight. The turning radius is a really substantial difference. There's a lot of think about in choosing your 1st overlanding rig. Good Luck!
Chevy Silverado Trail Boss 1500 crew cab with a standard box:
Wheelbase (inches)
157.05
Length (inches)
241.21
Width, without mirrors (inches)
81.24
Ground Clearance, Front
10.7
Turning radius 22.3 to 25.1′
Chevy Silverado 2500 crew cab with a standard box:
Wheelbase (inches)
158.94
Length (inches)
249.95
Width, without mirrors (inches)
81.85
Ground Clearance, Front
10.12
Turning radius 23.45 to 28.5′
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Thanks so much!
2500s are very capable, just research the 2500 power wagon. And why there are many more people getting into them. Front and rear lockers, solid axels. Sway bar disconnect, factory 2” lift. And fit 37’s easily
While I have come to hate the term overlanding I do essentially that with a 25 yr old chevy astro
It's great if you've looking for decked out $100k vehicles
It all depends if you like seeing the same things that almost ANYONE else can or you are part of the true risk taking adventuresome spirit that made this country great.
Jason Couch sounds like you’re a “OFFROADERLANDER”! Hey, that has a nice ring to it! Don’t you think?
Correction Jon, I made it up the rock step in the legacy back when I broke my shoulder lol
NICE!!! Sorry Parker, you and Artem (@suba_ruski) are the best CVT drivers I know. I had a feeling someone with skill can make it up. I also remember that trip in detail. That was my first time meeting with the MtnRoo in October 2017 after Subiefest.
I'll make sure to correct myself in the next youtube video, give you a shout out. I have a clip of you climbing the steep hill in Pioneer town, so a replay of that will tell the story.
JonDZ Adventuring lol that’s probably not the best run I could have made up that hill, but a comparison of Alan (the blue Foz) and I on that hill would be a good one to use for what to do with a cvt and definitely what not to do
Awesome video! I have a 2019 Subaru Outback....when I get into deep sand, snow, or loose rock....my car comes to a crawl and is not responsive (I turn on and off traction to see if there is any difference) when I give it he gas. I barely make it out, but it makes me think the Outback is not as capable as it’s hyped up to be, and I find myself not trusting the vehicle, sticking to safer roads as prudent. Will a rear limited slip dif make a difference, or is it just a bad designed transmission?? I’m a newb so please excuse my ignorance. Thnx.
Chris Ross that’s a good question with a complicated answer. First of all, there’s a big difference between a Modern Subaru and an older Subaru. The main difference being the transmission. As you can see, the 1st gen Forester here was able to climb up the difficult shelf climb. So, Subaru’s are not exactly over hyped, a Subaru’s with automatic transmission are legendarily awesome.
So, to answer your question, would a limited slip differential help a modern Subaru? It will strengthen traction, but the CVT would still be the weakest link.
Chris Ross I’m response to your 2nd comment. As far as crossovers, there’s honestly not many capable options. In the compact category (excluding luxury vehicles and Jeep crossovers) I still feel the Subaru Forester is the most capable option. The RAV4’s awd system doesn’t seem to be as good as Subaru’s but I think overall it’s a better vehicle. The only problem is that they are STUPID expensive. A Rav4 adventure is $35K, which is only $3k less than my Passport EX-L (which is almost twice the car as the Rav4 in terms of luxury, power and capability). So..... yeah man, there’s not many options. I would highly recommend a SH (3rd gen) forester like the one Donald from Softroadingthewest has. Or try to find a SH (second gen) Forester, which is the unicorn 🦄, Or go with any other older Subaru.
But, keep in mind, there will be a trade off with technology, comfort and size.
You can always take your chance with a Jeep crossover too!
JonDZ Adventuring excellent info. You just saved my bacon. Thanks. What about swapping out the CVT in a newer Outback with a manual or automatic transmission...? The more I think about it....a Toyota 4Runner seems like a viable option.
Chris Ross, so to be honest a manual will be terrible for off-road. Can it be done? Sure, but that’s going to be super hard mode and not very enjoyable. Even a CVT would be a better option for taking your vehicle off-road. I have never heard of a 4EAT/5EAT swap, so it’s probably more trouble than it’s worth. A 4Runner will handle much more different than the Outback you are driving, it’s on road behavior isn’t so great. Lots of floating down the freeways, 16 MPG. Are you looking to buy brand new or used? A used 4Runner is still pricey, but something like a Nissan Xterra could be more affordable. If you’re open to buying new, the Jeep JL is an excellent choice. The sport model with traction control would be all you’d ever need. The handling was greatly improved for the newer models and they can get 20 mpg highway. If I can make a decision again, I’d probably be driving one. But I can’t complain about the passport. Where it lacks in capability it makes up for in sheer onroad performance, luxury and comfort and efficiency. If 30 mpg is more your jam, consider a 2019 Rav4. Or if you are no taller than 5’9” consider a 2020 Tacoma. I’d hold off on the 4 runner. Those things are ancient and antiquated. The rumor is that the new model will be released in 2021. Also consider that ford will be releasing the bronco 1 and 2.
Chris Ross here’s another option that many People don’t consider, a Mitsubishi Outlander GT. It has a 3.0 V6 and a 6 speed automatic transmission. Check out this video:
th-cam.com/video/DOQu2ANSsUc/w-d-xo.html
Its pretty interesting that National Park Service note highlights @3:16 "low gear transfer case". I guess they are trying to point the fact that its adviceable only SUV / truck type vehicles with good 4wd system should enter for less maintain roads vs the components on AWD vehicles many not be intended for these type of terrain. That note from NPS pretty much says it all. However for most camping roads a Passport is pretty capable.
Lion Runner that’s correct! The NPS states that high clearance is 8 inches or more on 15 inch wheels or higher. The difference between a 2wd high clearance trail and a 4wd high clearance trail is the “low gear transfer case” and of course.... 4wd. There are trails like Canyon Lands, Utah, that “require” 4wd and a low gear transfer case.
Lion Runner now, since all vehicles have transfer cases the NPS needs to define what “low” means. That definition has been around for sometime but now that we have 8 to 10 speed transmissions, some single speed transfer case vehicles can have a low gear ratio. For example, the Jeep Renegade trailhawk has a button that says 4-low. This is the same as my 1st gear in the Honda Passport. Older Subaru’s May have a dual range gear box with a 22:1 crawl ratio and a true 4wd system, but without a torque converter, capability can be limited to those that aren’t incredibly skilled drivers. There’s a lot of grey area 🤣.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring true, for sure low range is only used for tougher obstacles. Also its good that the ZF 9 speed have a better crawl ratio than the other crossovers. I think the reason NPS post that is that the crossover transmissions and transfer case might not be strong as a 4wd system on loose traction surfaces and could get overheat and damage overtime. Again I'm not saying that one should have a Rubicon with front and rear lockers or a 4Runner with a rear locker. I would be comfortable to have a vehicle that have at least 4 wheel high range to drive long gravel or loose traction roads vs a AWD system. But for someone who just go for a camping once in summer and not having to drive for an hour or so on a loose road it would be stupid to buy a 4WD vehicle that lacks on road driving comfort, highway acceleration, braking, etc.. Again this is only my opinion and I could be very very wrong.
I can promise a spotter wouldn’t be needed to drive up that trail shown at the start if you had been driving a more focused 4x4.
JeepCherokeeful I explained this in another comment. My friend in the 2005 Baja XT is stock height with 3/4” taller tires. He was scraping so I spotted for Him. I asked him to record me afterwards.
Most of that comes down to ground clearance. I have 11 inches at my front skid plate, which means a vehicle like a Stock GX 460 with 8.5 inches of minimum ground clearance will be scraping on the terrain shown at the beginning. What my vehicle doesn’t have is articulation, so traversing rutted terrain is not as easily done (or graceful).
JonDZ Adventuring only as strong as your weakest link?
JeepCherokeeful jaja I could run that in my long ass 06’ sprinter 2x4 easy peasy, no 4x4 bs needed, I run this kinda stuff in Baja often. 4x4 only comes in to play on uphills or silt or soft sandy baja beaches.
print4apet plus mud and deep snow. Actually I think the 4x4 Sprinter would suffice for road trips to Alaska, the Yukon and NWT, summer or winter
JeepCherokeeful if it makes you feel better, I went up the rocky shelf climb without a spotter. That’s a much harder obstacle than in the beginning of the video. Case in point, a Chevy ZR2 with a 47:1 crawl ratio with front and rear lockers couldn’t just fly up it.
Every time a vehicle breaks traction that is causing excessive wear on driveline and suspension components, not to mention excessive track damage. Having clarified that, most SUVs and pickup trucks are capable of traversing, oh, 80% of two tracks in the lower 48. I prefer being able to traverse 99% of two tracks and a vehicle that doesn’t fall apart being used for what they aren’t attended. Oh BTW, 315,000 miles, going strong!
I think most full time awd crossovers like Subaru's are able to get to 70-80% of places off pavement, Stock pick up trucks and body on frame SUV's with solid rear axles and low range can do up to 90% Modified will do up to 95% and then there's the extreme places like you would see in the King of Hammer, where you'd probably need competition tires to get to 99% of all places, but at that point, that's really not overlanding.
@@JonDZ_Adventuringcorrect, King of Hammers and other such places, that are actually way less than 1% of hardcore public trails is not overlanding. It is a sport all unto its own. I have a difficult time even using the term "overlanding" because it has been hijacked and no longer means what it meant even 10 years ago. Throwing a cooler in the jeep and going four wheeling for the weekend is not overlanding.
MOAK so what is “overlanding”? Honestly curious on your opinion, not trying to be a jerk. Haha
MOAK I agree with you. The term overlanding has been hi-jacked in the USA. We have so many paved roads here. I personally feel that in the USA, offroading = overlanding. This recent surge is only about 1-2 years old and I’ve been exploring and dispersed camping using my vehicle since 2017 (which isn’t that long ago either). I didn’t know what to called it, I actually called it “subaruing”, since at the time I was driving a Subaru.
Well... if people are going to call driving 3 miles offroad and camping at a steel fire ring overlanding, then I’m going to jump in here and call my 30 mile drive up into the mountain is BLM land overlanding 😃.
What do you think about a 2x4 rear wheel drive 2018 Chevy Colorado for over landing. It has lower gears but I don’t know if it can handle the trails.
Something I'm not seeing pointed out in the video or in the comments is how a vehicle holds up and the risk of breaking something important over a few years' time. I travel alone in S. Idaho and E. Oregon on rocky trails that are miles from any paved roads or cell service, and have done so since the late 1980s. I currently drive a 2010 Toyota FJ, and have had several fullsize truck SUVs in the past. If you want your vehicle to hold up trip after trip and be reliable, you really need something built on a truck chassis or a Jeep. Cars and crossovers really aren't built to handle all the bumps and miles of rocky and rough roads without damage.
Jim Beaumont what kind of terrain are you driving on? The point of this video is that overlanding is not hardcore offroading. You need to have the mind set and common sense to not push your vehicle “close” to its limits. Also, I made this video to setup my next video, which is traversing the 135 mile Mojave Road. The things I will point out is that my friend and I aren’t driving typical crossovers. I will also point out that it doesn’t matter if you have a crossover or a body on frame SUV, things can break regardless. For example, the Trail recon TH-cam channel has been to the Mojave road twice, and both times their vehicles broke parts (I’ll link these video’s below). Quite honestly, the trail wasn’t very difficult. I’m not saying a crossover won’t break parts, I’m just saying that built Jeeps broke parts. Also in this specific video, the Lexus LX (land cruiser) broke his CV axle. It’s an older vehicle and he’s carrying lots of weight. So, again, the main point of this video is to have the “overlander mindset”.
Btw, thanks for your input. You bring up a good general point. The crossover segment is actually now fragmented into two sub categories: onroad and off-road oriented crossovers, and you are correct some of them can’t handle the abuse.
So here’s the Trail recon videos:
th-cam.com/video/W2mxgE7dLIw/w-d-xo.html
Jim Beaumont here’s the more recent one:
th-cam.com/video/_Q7fkJPZg1I/w-d-xo.html
Making sure your vehicle is in good working order before a trip like this is very important. Also, I’d never go alone on a 135 mile trip like this.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring I am just looking at the general beating that any vehicle takes when traveling on unimproved roads for a few years. Anything can break. 100 miles of unimproved roads for me is a typical weekend, and the more you stray from the stock setup of a good truck chassis the more chances to break things. And I guess I have the "overlander mindset" because I know I'm likely to be on my own and reliability is number one. You just don't see that many crossovers off the beaten path out here, but you will see ranchers and miners that beat trucks up and they still hold up.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Crazy about the LX that's the tradeoff with buying something 15-20 years old. the 100 series landcruiser/lx470 is capable, reliable, its a tank, and if you keep up with maintance it will last 25 years and 300-400k miles. One of the most reliable LC ever imported, but then you have people who fix things only when they break, if you do some preventative maintance it saves you the headache of ruining a trip.
At least a 29 inch tire on a cross over and if you can put in a rear Torsen auto locker all the better. I have a diesel Dacia Duster with a rear Torsen, engine remap with +25 hp and + 54 Nm of torque as well as a 8000 lb Tyrex winch: th-cam.com/video/JzB1i_LQBjE/w-d-xo.html
What’s the best way to find the smooth gravel/dirt roads that don’t need 4wd? I have a 2wd tundra that I’d like to take out, but do not want to get into “4wd situations”. Is there an app or web site that lists these gravel/dirt roads?
Troy Davis hmmmmm. I’d use an app like “All Trails”. A trail marked “easy” would definitely be doable by a 2wd truck.
Good vid. I just priced a 2019 passport came out to 53k cnd. My issue is for 7k more I can drive off the lot in something like a power wagon (on the high end) or even a tacoma or rebel.
xOdin330 my Passport EX-L AWD, which I consider is fully loaded because it has full leather seats, tri-climate control, steering assist, 3.5L vtec engine that does 0-60 mph (0-100km/h to you) in 5.8 seconds. All this cost me $38K. A TRD off-road Tacoma is $44k, has cloth seats and it’s too small for me to sit in. The Power Wagon is $53K. Now... you can get a cloth seat passport awd for $33K. I actually sat in a Tacoma, they’re just not made for people like me.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring that's all in usd? Prices are cheaper in the states.
xOdin330 yes, USD, do you guys use the dollar sign too? (Sorry, I seriously don’t know).
@@JonDZ_Adventuring yep. It's still a dollar here. Just CND $
My 2020 Tacoma trd or 4x4 6sp manual tech & led package no leather seats cost me $35,600 brand new @ Freeman Toyota before COVID-19. Very capable stock......
I think alot of people lean towards Jeeps and Tacomas so much because they're the most capable stock vehicles out there. Yes overlanding is about the exploring and you can explore alot in a Subaru, but you can explore so much more in a jeep or Tacoma. I've seen Subarus on the easy trails I've done and it's cool to see them out there. But there are some really beautiful trails that are just out of reach for a Subaru. My jeep has conquered some awesome trails and that makes the poor gas mileage and handling all worth it, to me.
younghex you bring up a really good point. I’ve been there, I use to drive a FJ cruiser, I just found that when I switched to a Subaru WRX I was now all of a sudden getting outdoors more because it costs half the money in gas to operate and it was so much more enjoyable driving on pavement.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring I can't argue against that. Driving a soft top in the wind is very annoying and made a long drive through utah to moab unbearable. And to each their own, its all about what gets you outdoors
I think someone should point out it is easier to go down obstacles than go up them. Keep that in mind if you want to get back the same way you came.
biggsly5000 very good point!!! The perfect example of this is descending into the Monache meadows here in Southern California, just south east of Sequoia National Park. The toughest part about this trail is driving back up it. I already have a pinned post about telling people that it’s up to them to do the research prior to running a trail. I’ll add what you said in your comment. Again, very good specific point! 👌
Here’s my Instagram post about the Monache Meadows trail. I also have a website I made to list CUV trail difficulty.
instagram.com/p/B7EF_8dp8W2/?igshid=11qc2t0ngpv81
JonDZ Adventuring I tend to learn lessons the hard way but you never forget them that way.
Overlanding is just a word. Who cares. I’ve done the Camino Del Diablo in a 2 wd truck, a 4wd suv with lockers, and a 1 wd motorcycle before overlanding was a word. We called it sightseeing. Personally I think going into the wilderness with a humble attitude and reverence for nature is best. We didn’t conquer anything-just enjoyed the ride. Now I’m off to Death Valley on my high horse. Goler Wash and the Manson Mansion. Well, what’s left of it.
Dan Cutter well said! Have fun out there!
Isn’t that Subaru Outback a CVT?
Kyle Li yes, there’s 2 of them.
To clarify you had said no CVTs made it but then said your buddy with an outback is one of the best CVT drivers?
D Subie I said he’s one of the best CVT drivers I know (I know approx. 150 of them). There were only two of us that attempted the climb. My friend in his CVT outback didn’t feel like making an attempt, after all it’s 30-35 degrees of an incline with shelves taller than his wheel hubs. There was also a 100 series land cruiser that didn’t feel like making an attempt. I hope that clarifies things.
JonDZ Adventuring got it-that clears it up. Side note I’ve owned two black cars and one dark gray. Look awesome clean but are HOT and show dents/scratches so easily.. how you liking going from white to black?
D Subie 🥺🥺🥺 I have so many pin stripes. It’s really bad actually! I wish they had a white Passport when I bought it. I figured I’d get this thing wrapped, but then I found out it costs $3000, and I’m not willing to spend that much. I plan on doing a DIY wrap job myself for $250. Wish me luck!
JonDZ Adventuring man and it’s probably really noticeable in black :( looking back probably should have wrapped it when you first got it lol. I did a wrap on my console it turned out ehhhh. Check out my video. Walmart and amazon have some decent cheap wrap. The Walmart.com was actually better than amazon. Go figure.
Whatever you get make sure it doesn't have cvt transmission lol
james green that applies in all contexts
...unless your vehicle is a UTV
Vladimir_Bone Spur_tRump the Honda Ridgeline has it and most Subaru have them as well
James green the Honda Ridgeline has never had a CVT. The 2017-2019 models have a Honda 6-speed automatic. Unfortunately, it was prone to overheating during prolonged climbs, so for 2020 The Ridgelines come with the ZF9. You are correct about Subaru’s, all their crossovers come with a CVT,
Except the 2nd gen crosstrek, it’s the only Subaru crossover that has the option for a 6 speed manual.
JonDZ Adventuring you are correct, it's a dual clutch that over heats in stressful environments. TFL proved that and if they correct that I might be interested in for myself lol
I go overlanding with my Dodge 2500 pickup that I use to tow my 37’ 5th wheel rv to areas I want explore. After I park my rv I overland the areas I am staying in.
brison palmer that’s a good rig! Definitely on the more capable side. Many of the popular youtubers are moving towards the new Ram 2500’s as overlanding platforms. FotoRnr and Jason Keortege come to mind.
Informative video but the point of building capable rigs is so you are able to tackle trail conditions that were unplanned for. Large washouts that would stop an Outback wouldn't phase a Land Cruiser. Muddy tracks that bog down low HP vehicles will put you in danger of getting stuck. This is why you build a purpose built vehicle. I have a 100 Series LC that is a tank and goes nearly anywhere I point it, but spends most of the time on mild trails. But I am ready for that fluke while out exploring that calls for my lockers and larger tires.
Dustin Ortegon sounds like your a Off-roaderlander 👍
Dustin Ortegon making sure your vehicle is in good working order is very important, Especially for older vehicles. I have personally seen many 100 series land cruisers break parts. 2 videos ago in my “unmaintained snowy trail” video there’s a 100S Land Cruiser that blew a radiator (which I hear can be common). In this video, the white Lexus LX broke his driver side front CV joint. Also, Brother in laws brother’s ABS pump went out. They’re great vehicles, but everything will be prone to failure when they get old. This brings up a good point, never go out alone.
True, obstacles look fine now, add a downpour and not so much. Here’s the deal, building a Subaru and still having less capability than a base 4 Runner with stock sized mud terrains is just silly. But I don’t care, the adventure is what interests me, but I go places they can’t;)
JeepCherokeeful True! During last weeks trip to the Mojave road, we were very aware that if Soda lake was wet, we would not be able to cross it. This goes for all vehicles, even Rubicons with 40 inch mud terrains. Luckily, we noticed that the earth was dry, so we scopes out the lake bed and luckily it was dry.
@@JeepCherokeeful You'd be surprised what a 1st or 2nd gen forester with a 2" lift, some A/Ts and a rear locker can do. th-cam.com/video/zcQo8TqNJ8A/w-d-xo.html
How can we find how to navigate to this area?
4x4 Practice Track
California 93023
(661) 248-7007
goo.gl/maps/U7bTUqFW68ewxpFL7
@@JonDZ_Adventuring thanks man! It’s been hard to find a spot to practice near SoCal !