If you've ever tried Project Ember, he can promote with a knight crest. And you can get one around that time or in 8x which makes him feel way better in the Western Isles.
What would really help Roy in mid late game is Rapier being effective on other horse units besides cavaliers, in Sacae he feel even more like a liability because there's nomads everywhere
Honestly, from a character standpoint, I prefer if Roy promoted late and was mediocre throughout most of the game. A large part of his character is how he struggles with his position of leadership and how weak he is. He's a bit of a nerdy kid who was forced into a position he never wanted, and he struggles with depression and self-confidence issues because he's afraid of failing to meet expectations or even having his soldiers killed due to his incompetence. He loses sleep because he spends countless nights coming up with failproof plans, and he recklessly fights in the front lines so he can relate to his soldiers more and not feel so entitled and selfish. All of these characteristics are reinforced by how he performs gameplay-wise as he obviously sucks. I like to imagine his promotion as some sort of development as he pretty much took down a very large chunk of Bern's army as well as one of the Three Dragon Generals. He's gained such a massive boost of confidence from both the power of the Binding Blade itself as well as his militaristic achievements.
Roy's a just a pretty underrated character honestly. A lot of the stuff you mention goes unappreciated because the main story can probably do more to highlight it. A remake could easily touch up the script enough to make more people like Roy and hopefully gel better with how he's expressed in gameplay.
@@Gerd0 Both Shadow Dragon and Echoes did a lot to flesh out both Marth and Alm, so I really hope we get an FE6 remake so Roy gets the same treatment. One thing I really want them to change though is Roy's interactions with Lilina. I feel like she had a bunch of wasted potential, and I really want her to have a much bigger role in the main story. She can also flesh out Roy's personality in the process. Both struggle with the burden of leadership and constantly doubt their abilities. Another thing I didn't mention about Roy was how distant his friends became from him once he assumed the role of leader. Wolt for example started to treat him more like another noble rather than his childhood friend. I wish they would delve deeper into this as maybe a large reason Roy gets so attached to Lilina is because she's the only one who he feels comfortable talking to and the only one who understands him. There's probably a bunch of stuff I'm forgetting but there is so much you can do with these two characters
@@Falkion2040 Not making a good chunk of Roy's dialogue be him discussing the plot with Merlinus would be a start. Tons of potential if they gave some of those scenes to Lilina instead.
@dlee2040 A bunch of that is fanfiction you came up with. Roy doesn't 'fight recklessly in the front lines', that's Alen. He'll fight with the army, sure, but he's also the tactician and he struggles to make the right calls for his army's survivability.
I can see the Chess King comparison and I had actually seen it made before but I honestly still think having him THIS weak is too much. The Chapter 16 promotion thing would be good, it wouldn't break character too much or make him too strong. If you're not already training him he'll still suck and training him would still be tricky but at least it'd kind of pay off. And for whatever merits it has, having someone weak and crappy without support stuff like Micaiah or Leif just doesn't feel very fun.
Honestly I don't see how Roy being weak is important to the game. All it means is that for the last third of the game Roy ends up just being carried by someone while Percival and Miledy kill everything so he can just be drop off. It is bad unit feel and it is one of the reasons that a lot of people don't care for Roy outside smash. It is one thing is Roy is not great in combat but the real issue is he is just useless since outside of staff and mounted utility combat is the only thing units bring in fe6. For a great example of how to make a good weak lord look at our Lord and Saviour Leif. Despite being on the weaker end Leif is still considered ba fun and good character. Why? Combination of a fantastic personal weapon, giving supports to a lot of characters, stamina system making it so he is thr only unit you are guaranteed to use on every map and late promotion not being a factor because both promoted snd unpromoted classes have the same caps. Also it is much easier to fix bad combat in fe5 with skills, scrolls and OP weapons while in fe6 if your combat skills well you will probably suck all game.
I'm currently playing Mangs balance patch of FE6. Basically it's a hack-room where he balances and fixes most of Binding Blade problems while staying true to the original desing philosophy and changing the game as little as posible. The thing is he made Roy promote after chapter 16 and, like you said in the video, at first it isn't that big of a change, but in terms of "Game feeling" it feels incredibly natural, like is the thing that is supposed to happen. Yeah, he's not gonna become some kind of beast all of a sudden, but this way he's not dead weight and can go toe to toe with most of the enemies in the game and level up a lot more than he would normally do. And you know what? By the time he gets the BB, and with the help of the bonus of the Blade, he is a really reliable late game unit. And I think that it fits his character a lot. Roy starts as a kid that nobody takes seriosly, even himself struggles with self-confidence, and by the end of the game makes the imposible. I like your analogy with the king's chess, but at it's core FE is a RPG, so i like the idea of the king starting weak and later leading from the front. Shit, my roy has been able to do some reliable close combat damage to Murdock and Zephiel, which before this run I though impossible, and I found it really cool. Those moments felt like story driven encounters. So after playing this patch I think that, if they remake FE6, they should definitely make Roy promote earlier, it fits a lot better with the story and the gameplay, and hopefully he starts to be seen more favourably by the fan base. ROY'S OUR BOY 🔥🔥🔥
I think Roy ended up being a prototype for Ike. Roy's promotion is essentially the same as when Ike gets his Ragnell. So if they staggered those 2 events a bit more, giving Roy an earlier promotion before getting the Binding Blade, I think he would be seen more as an average Lord. In my current Hard mode run, he's been consistently getting SOME kills all the way up until chapter 17 (where I am currently), particularly in chapters 5, 8x, 9, 10, 11 (Elphin route btw), 12, 14x (after some warp strats to remove Bolting users), and even 16. Is he as good as Alan, Rutger, Shanna, Deike, Miledy, or Percival? Fuck no, but he's doing his best! I find his awful level ups more funny than anything else at this point.
If anything, they might have been drawing from Marth for how they handled Roy since Marth doesn't get the Falchion until like the very end in both games he leads.
@@Gerd0 I think they also just realized that if it came any earlier, a lot of unsuspecting players would be locking themselves out of the true ending. With the other legendary weapons you need an S rank to use them, so most players will be waiting till close to the end anyway. With the Binding Blade as a prf weapon, a lot of players might have broken it before clearing Chapter 22 if it came any earlier.
The difference between Roy promoting earlier or after chapter 21x is how long he has to deal with the crippling lv cap and have no promo bonuses. He's not becoming any kind of S tier lord or better than the stronger units of your army but him being able to at least hold his ground a bit with terrain advantage and not getting doubled by freaking Berserker enemies. I think it'd be a game changer personally, we like Roy as he is he doesn't have to be a Sigurdlike powerhouse but atm he borders on helpless which just isn't fun, the fact that Rutger, Melady and the Paladins exist doesn't man your mediocre unit have no place in combat whatsoever, not everyone plays Fire Emblem to pick only the most cracked units available.
Honestly there's one basic reason he needs to promote earlier. Namely the Lord being dead weight just kinda sucks because they're mandatory on every map. It's fine if he remains a weak-ish lord like his dad, but he still needs to be capable of something.
@@lovableairheadmile6809 Lyn isn’t that bad but u do need to get some luck with str growth. Also the fact people use guy a lot then I think lyn isn’t to bad plus mangs changed his mind a bit for lyn. Although I do admit lyn much better in heroes though. also lyn at least promotes a lot earlier than roy and good speed, skill, and luck and gets two good weapons earlier lol
Just give him boots if you want that (I’ve done it before, and while I’d rather give them to the Dancer/Bard, it’s super convenient). Giving him more move would take away the chess king dynamic going on.
@@EikeKusch776 The first pair of boots in binding blade doesn't appear until Chapter 14. That's 13 seizes Roy has to make with his puny 5 mov, 15 counting gaidens. Even adding 1 extra to his base would alleviate the issue to some degree. Also you can't really use that as a fix for the issue, considering that pair of boots can go to literally anyone. This is why stat boosters aren't typically taken into account when discussing unit viability.
@RobotGuy405 Roy and the Bard/Dancer class are ideal contenders for boots. Also, mid game is where maps become larger to traverse on account of the game expecting you to have multiple promoted units with additional move. Though with how many high movement units the game throws at you, and access to the Warp & Harmmerne, sorta circumvent this. I am for Roy having higher starting movement however. Lord Class could have one more than other infantry by default similar to Alm and Celica in Gaiden.
Yeah I think that Roy promoting earlier without the Binding Blade is the best compromise. It doesn't make him insane, but for the average player, it makes him usable/not a deadweight. You still need to be careful with him, but you aren't actively going "god damnit roy" everytime an enemy slips by and one rounds him. Then when you get the BB, he becomes the Big Bad Roy from Smash (Ultimate) and runs over the rest of the game like in the original game. Win win in my books.
Roy promoting early would be a huge improvement, you'd get more fun out of a promotion that comes way too late in the game (without the true ending, you're literally reduced to just 1 chapter... wow)
Honestly, I would hav eloped if Roy promoted at the end of chapter 16 after killing Narcian because this is the start of the late game and where having a promoted Roy would be useful. Otherwise I love my boi Roy!
I thought about this a lot too. But my personal opinion is that not having roy promote when everyone else is promoted just makes him seem far more like dead weight than he actually is since he still has a lot of opportunitjes to be useful from early to Midgame. It's just when you know that promotion is coming far later than everyone else it like he's just there to the obligatory seize then be a unit you could be using then understanding that chip damage can be useful (there's a reason why light brands flat 10 at range makes roy a potential user of it)
Surprised NO ONE talked about this Like wasnt one of the biggest selling points of paladins their mov utility And deathweight didnt come from him lagging behind with him being barely more mobile than a unpromoted armored unit. Specially in a player phase focused game such as 6, with every chapter being a seize Also abysmal caps suck on a game with high quality units such as binding blade
I honestly play Fire Emblem training the units I like the most (holy fuck how bland are half of the Horse units as characters). Having Roy being weak made me want to level him up so he isn't weak anymore, but after he hits 20 I found myself avoiding fights with him like he was still very weak just because making him fight at that point is a waste of XP, and since I fed a lot of kills to Roy early on my other units really need that XP caped lvl Roy would be throwing away. My first FE was The Sacred Stones, then played FE7, then 6 (without knowing how absurd FE6 story would look knowing how FE7 story unfolds). Hector was a killing machine, I fucking hate Eliwood, Lyn was okay and both Hector and Lyn promote earlier in normal mode. Ephraim is super strong and Eirika gets too much hate, she is pretty okay and normally dodges a lot of attacks. On the other hand Roy always feels like deathweight. Level him early and you will find yourself avoiding combat with him later on so he doesn't throw XP away, level him later (or try to) and you will feel hatred in its most purest and raw form. No matter wtf you do with him you will always have something to hate or be anoyed about Roy. Fuck him and Eliwood, damn I can't stand Eliwood, in my runs he always was super weak i don't know why he gets so much praise. Anyway, if you don't play with the stronger meta units you will feel the Roy efect even harder. Playing with the characters you like the most regardless of his state in the tier list metaslaves make will make you feel miserable at some points. Roy sucks, must be a family thing. The worst part about Roy is that, unlike any other lord in the GBA FE series, forces your hand a lot of times and it's not trust worthy, like his father. Fuck me, I really hate Eliwood.
I mean... If your plan is to train roy better train liliana, she is not going to double shit 80% of the runs and in the other 20 she is the one getting doubled, but atleast she is guaranteed to max magic without items unless you are the unluckist MF on the planet. Well atleast western aisle is the moment that you are NOT going to train your pegasus knight nor lvl up your Christmas cavaliers spear ranks, and come on man, fyr sucks, specially if we compare her to rutger, specially because rutger should be almost level 20 if not already promoted if you use him as main dealer
honestly Ch 16 is a good chapter to promote Roy, Roy becomes the Leader of the WHOLE Eturian Army. Only problem with Roy is that he's..... basic, generic, lame compared to the likes of Marth, Sigurd, Seliph, Leif, Eirika, Ephraim, Ike and heck even Eliwood his father has that and I can go on.(only character this doesn't apply to is Corrin because it's Corrin) With what these characters personalities and background are built into their stats. For example Ephraim has good Strength, Good Speed and Skill because of his reckless personality and strategic mind. Dimitri hits like a truck because of his "boar" personality. Not Roy, Roy doesn't have that personality that reflect in his stats. He's a basic protagonist because the story of FE 6 is basic as hell, probably the most basic story I played. If there's going to be a FE6 remake they have to really revamp the story badly to prevent Roy from being a very basic Lord.
Idk how you didn’t pick up that Roy is incredibly clever, smart, and confident for his age and situation. He’s also very trusting, but weighs it with good rational decisions. This isn’t a smash bandwagon I went back through FE6 and read the dialogue. How he handled the betrayal situation with Wagner is leagues beyond how Corrin handled the one kid in revelation. He often counters Merlinus’s advice, the advisor his dad sent to be with him, and if you compare that to the previous lords none of them did that as frequently as Roy. He sends a letter to Cecilia as soon as possible to get help from Bern. When in the western isles Elffin leads him to believe his homeland is in danger, but knows Cecilia and his dad are still protecting it so chooses to stay it out and solve the issues in the western isles instead of impulsively running back to Lycia. And if you read up on Roy’s supports with his knights. Roy is incredibly stubborn. Refuses to let Marcus retire, denies that he cant win a war without losing any troops, wants wolt to be his old friend again even though his position is the same as Marcus and Merlinus, and insists on being on the front lines. He’s not poorly characterized at all.
I think Roy, Ike, and Sigurd are well done promotions regarding the story and gameplay fee the games are trying to go for. You already talked about Roy feeling like the King in chess that needs protecting, while the others convey things differently. Spoilers for those games btw. While not noted as the best lord in the franchise, FE9 Ike in all my playthroughs gives me a great sense of progression. At first he’s kinda pitiful, with only his hp stat stand out and only with the angelic robe (which you can give to anyone else). But besides having good growths (and consistent if on fixed mode), unlike other Fire Emblem games he’s not missing out on his promotion relative to others because others aren’t getting theirs much sooner. Everyone has to grind to level 20 except for 4 master seals across the ENTIRE GAME! With that progression, you really feel Ike’s growth, going from unable to survive or double, to some bulk and doubling up with an effective weapon, to when he can eventually use a steel sword and stand on his own against most things in the game. You really feel weak and unable to reach Greil at first, then struggle without him, before finally when you launch your war against Daein able to face off almost anything in your way! (No axes in Tellius still hurts though…) Sigurd meanwhile perfectly embodies the story and gameplay of Genealogy. He is a strong, confident man who has no doubts in his moral compass and is a proud carrier of Crusader Blood. Because of this, he has a simple but reliable skill in Pursuit, authority stars to strengthen himself and his allies, comes with his promotion and has all the weapon rank and growth bonuses that holy blood entails. To top it off, he even has a Silver sword starting towards the later half of the prologue. Sigurd’s tale isn’t about him growing in power to live up to something unlike Ike or Seliph, but rather about his confidence to lead and help others and always keep pushing forward. It also helps narratively later on, as when Sigurd feels frustrated at his inability to stop the demise of those he cares about, it also hurts the player similarly when using him; we have all this power and STILL can’t stop fate. With how essential he is to the leading and support of the army, it also links the gameplay and narrative for the player’s experience when he meets his demise in gen 1; not only are you emotionally attached to him and his struggles, but you lose an essential piece to your gameplay that you don’t get back until Seliph reaches and passes his father’s potential, which also gives context for Seliph’s goals and might. I think promotion can be more than just a gameplay moment, but a time of impact and reflection.
Yup. I always thought the character power can be a strong storytelling tool. A game like Disgaea, has characters be alleged badasses cream of the crop types from the start. Despite that, they are statistically outclassed by shopkeepers. And may not catch up until midgame. That said, I would probably buff up Roy's bases a bit, namely his skill. Just to suit his tactical mind. That shouldn't take away what makes roy, roy or FE6 FE6. But it would be nice little nod to his background and character.
I think people under estimate Roy, well sure, he's rather weak, and he promoteslate, and he will never really be the magic thingyou send to whackanything that comes at you, but in the end, you have to train him to keep him alive, which mean that a trained Roy is a decent fighter, nothing to write home about of course, but he can hold his own When thisstarts getting an issue though, is the late promotion, it's not that it will turn him into God of course, it just means that at some point, Roy will cap, and once there, he can't get any more exp, and he won't grow anymore, which is why it gets dangerous, asfoes are promoting and getting stronger, while Roy doesn't (this issue is probably exacerbated by Sacae) which is why, evenwithout the powerful binding blade (who may like a bit more uses), Roy should promote earlier, just so he can keep getting exp and not turn into a huge liability for your whole squad Well, that's my opinion after !
As someone who's never played The Binding Blade and has only experienced the game through watching videos about it on TH-cam, I'm fine with Roy's late promotion. It's a unique trait to him that gives the player a different challenge than having a Lord who's average at combat (or excels at it), and as far as I'm aware it fits in with his story to be underpowered. I kinda see it as similar to Thracia's notorious difficulty and mechanics - if they ever remade that game, I'd hope they kept most of it intact because even if it's obtuse, it made that game stand out from the other FE entries (keep in mind I said "most", not all because some of what I've seen would've given me nightmares if I ever played that game).
Yeah I agree. Roy having a earlier promotion would be more of a formality than something to make him good. He kind of mirrors Marth's in the way his promotion is more connected to him getting a legendary weapon
Roy promoting earlier would bump his mid game performance by a lot largely from the huge gain in attack speed he gets. He gains 4 attack speed from promotion when using the killing edge, one of the best swords in the game, which is huge for doubling thresholds. The other stat bonuses and extra movement are the cherry on top.
I've never understood the Roy whining. Which is exactly what it is. I'm not an FE super fan, but within the context of FE6, I find him to be more than fine. Essential, even, to the early game slog. And more than able to do some damage all the way through. I'd rather have him than Eliwood, and Eliwood's fine in his own game, too, which is really what matters. There's no getting around the averageness. And the late promo sucks no matter how you slice it. But I don't think the game was designed for Roy to be weak, it was just designed to be hard. And since your main character you have to keep alive promotes so late, he's at a disadvantage and has to be kept in mind with the strategy. It's just that that disadvantage has been greatly exaggerated. Especially in hard mode, where his "main character" syndrome kind of offsets the hardness. I don't remember ever ending up with an unusable Roy. Just one that promotes late.
It my first Time in chapter 21 and Dragon lances cant get me i dont defete the boss yet and i am in turn 27 i dont know if possible promote him but i s a hard battle and i dont want to repeat again
Bruh i just want him to promote so he unlocks his other 20 levels and i am not stuck with a unite thats caped and cant fight because it like shoving EXP down the drain.
Ya know what i thought? It would be cool if roy when promoted its normal attack animation changes and shows a more skilled roy attacking instead of its same reckless movement, the binding blade one is still cool tho
I feel like you're kind of missing the point for promoting Roy earlier. Its not so he can become a good unit but rather so he can be usable. A majority of Roy's presence in FE6 is essentially a wasted slot you can't take him out of. He is a flat out wrong choice to bring along in a position where you have no choice but to bring him. Promoting him early won't make him a good unit; it'd just make him not a bad unit anymore. And having a character, especially a main character you need to bring along in every map is usually a bad design choice. Even Eliwood and Lyn afterwards are not good units, but neither are terrible either and can be reliably usable all game long unless you're playing specifically for the hardest settings; something Roy fails at even on a casual play level. I get the whole king in chess thing, but the inherent flaw there is if we are forced to take a unit along who contributes nothing to the team whatsoever and we cannot fix that, then why should we want to take him along in the first place? Nobody brings Roy along in FE6 because they want to. They bring him because they don't get a say in the matter.
Thats the point of Roy promoting late, he might be the main character but he aint strong or anything like other lords. He is suppose to struggle, thats why the binding blade is so busted, without it Roy isnt "powerful"
@@davzzler This vid goes out of its way to show that even with a promotion he would still struggle, which means the point is still valid. He becomes badass once he has the Binding Blade, not once he promotes. The two happening at the same time are purely incidental. Therefore simply allow him to promote whenever and keep the Binding Blade where it is. Besides, what he is now isn't struggling. Its being completely and utterly useless until he isn't. That's the problem.
@@GameAW1 Yea but still he isnt completely unusable because there are still several enemies that he can fight reliably and contribute, and also he can support bot Alance and Lilina. But giving him a stronger weapon other than his 50 rapier uses after around chapter 13 to 16 would definitely make using him less frustrating
@@clinical-lv8om The further you go, the less and less enemies can actually be killed by him. And if Roy is particularly RNG screwed, he'll be lucky to hurt sages. Even without that, the trades he has between foes gradually becomes less and less worth it to the point that his best contribution is being picked up by someone like Gonzales and ferried to the seize point. Besides, though we call it horny chess, its important to remember that Fire Emblem is not chess and shouldn't actually be treated as such. That would just be bad design. If Marth can be a solid enough unit in combat before Falchion without needing severe babying, why is it wrong for Roy to have the same?
My analysis here is from the perspective of Roy already being usable. From my experience of bothering to invest in him on both normal and hard mode, he absolutely is. He'll be no work horse, but he can chip in a kill every once in a while and take a couple hits if needed (especially if you've given him one of the not hotly contested angelic robes). I think you're setting the bar for usable way too high. It's not like he's Wendy or Sophia where even feeding them kills is about as pleasant of an experience as bashing your head against a wall. Roy at least has the luxury of being available during chapters that are very conducive to getting him going.
great video! I do agree it is one of the most identifiable traits of FE6 having Roy as a mediocre "king" type of unit. I didn't really learn to appreciate it until years after my first playthrough of Binding Blade. Can't wait for a remake!
I only really found his lategame promotion annoying because once he's capped, he just becomes an exp drain when engaging in combat. In reality, he just sits in the backlines and gets rescue chained or warped to the throne room once the fighting clears down. Requiring a plot device (in this case, the Binding Blade) to have him promoted is just a terrible idea to me, in the sense of the plot, it felt like Roy never had merits, never gained or learned strength from his adventure from Lycia to Bern and that he only really became strong because of the legendary weapon. It would probably be nicer if Roy had a 2-range weapon.
When it comes to the plot of both Blazing and Binding Blade, at least the MacGuffin to promotion in FE7 was a Heaven Seal, not a legendary weapon. It showed that the Lycian Lords already had strength or rather gained the strength before Athos gave them the legendary weapons. In both games, its evident that you need the legendary weapons to defeat the dragons and Hector being a seasoned fighter, was still killed by them. Idunn and her manaketes were weaker than the dragon that Nergal summoned meaning that the Lycian Lords plotwise were really just stronger than Roy against Idunn. It felt like it wasnt really Roy defeating Idunn, rather the Binding Blade wielding itself and Roy's empathy to Idunn that acted the Binding Blade not to kill Idunn. Comparing the Fire Dragon and Idunn felt wrong to me but the battles kind of showed that Roy was really just not strong and that his strength is derived from the Binding Blade as he was chosen by the sword. Really, remove the sword from him and he's pathetic. Plot device and his overreliance on the weapon.
I like the idea of promoting him after Chapter 16 or 16x. This was the moment Roy's army merges with Etruria and became something called Etrurian Liberation Army (I kind of forgot). The King (or even Elphin) or the Bishops in Elimine's Tower gives him a Heaven Seal that was probably meant for Elphin before he "died". The Heaven Seal is given as a token of appreciation for liberating Etruria and signifies how far Roy has come in his campaign and the plot progresses as forward, could probably give him a mid-game prf weapon too, effective 1-2 range hopefully. Nothing drastic really but stat changes that allows him to keep up with the rest of the army. Chapter 16 itself is a pretty massive map, plenty of combat and his low movement of 5 really shows in that map.
It does however make getting that legendary weapon feel special. Plus I feel like this very uncharitable take of Roy. The thing about Roy is he not strong and he doesn’t feel like he’s ready. Him being accepted by the blade is good pay off. Same way Arthur pulling exacibur is one.
@@rances4418 Relying on a plot device: The Binding Blade to make Roy "feel strong" instead of through people recognizing his own exploits and achievements IS uncharitable of him. By the time he liberated Aquleia, he already liberated Lycia, the Western Isles and Nabata, defeated Narshen and forced the corrupt Etrurian nobles to flee the palace. What Roy needs is for people to recognize him, not an overpowered sword that virtually makes Roy "nothing" without it. Ike got the same treatment in both his games, with Sanaki both giving him the Begnion army to command and Yune recognizing him as one of the strongest soldiers amongst Beorc and Laguz, mind you, FE9 Ike got Ragnell in Chapter 27, applying the same logic with Roy, that practically means Ike should promote by the tail end of Chapter 26? Nonsense. Ike promotes and was recognized by Sanaki by the end of Chapter 17 and even the twins Ephraim and Eirika obtained their bracelets and legendary weapons after liberating Renais in Chapter 16. 22 Chapters and 6 Gaiden Chapters and Roy is still unpromoted, discovers a weapon he has not even heard of and just decides that the sword makes him strong. Roy should have been recognized for his efforts in the war in Etruria.
Another consideration could be to make him like Marth from Shadow Dragon. Where his promotion still happens late, but he's allowed to level up beyond 20th level. In my opinion, the worst part about using Roy is him being stuck at 20th level while the rest of your army continues to out pace him combat wise. I think a higher level cap could strike a good balance between keeping the integrated story aspect of Roy's weakness, while remove the frustration of him being essentially dead weight for many chapters.
I wouldn't be too surprised if a remake just made Roy a doesn't promote class that goes up to lv 40 and gave him the +1 mov he'd otherwise get from that into the base class.
I don't understand what I did wrong but the last chapter I got to play was the one right after promoting. 🤷♂️ After Zephiel is defeated, end credits. Also I got the sense of Roy being an unimpressive Lord pretty early on and babied him from the start, so he was actually really reliable mid game. It wasn't until everyone else was promoting where it felt bad to basically not use Roy (to not waste EXP). Roy isn't a bad unit, he just isn't a super soldier like most FE Lords, which I agree feels better. He doesn't need to promote sooner story wise but it does feel bad to take him out of the action so soon- he should promote around the time half of your units have promoted tbh.
If you haven't done all the optional chapters and don't have all of the S rank weapons still in tact, you get a premature ending right after Zephiel. So you either missed the requirements for one of those chapters (16x is the usual suspect for that I think) or got a bit over zealous with using one of the weapons and broke it.
finally, someone said it. Gameplay-wise Roy's promo barely matters at all and is mostly held in such high regards because of how incredibly busted the Binding Blade is. Seriously, look at how good base Roy does in 0% growth runs with it, he contributes just fine overall and exceptionally well for a unit that joined with shaky bases all the way back in chapter 1.
ive had runs end because pro got doubled by javelins by unpromoted wyverns before the true route split...... bro needs a early promote. also my roy is around 20 by the time yours is 15 because i feel forced to baby him so he can not get doubled or one shot by silver weapons and then any action he gets is a waste of exp and he is still the weakest on the deployed team. You cant defend it
I think something overlooked here is the difference the boost from a promotion can make in allowing Roy to snowball. Sure, 2 strength and speed really isnt worth writing home about, but if it allows him to double or 1-round a few more enemies, it *can* allow him to spiral into a decent unit.
The Binding Blade is basically Roy’s plot armor. I don’t think he needs an earlier promotion, just keep them safe and feed some kills to him during the main game and let him go nuts in the end game.
First time I got through Hard Mode Roy was so speed screwed he couldn't even double manaketes post promotion. He got 2 speed levels before promotion. And yeah he was level capped. Wasn't even fun to use at that point. His biggest contribution is chip damage in chapter 4.
Maybe I played weird, but my Roy capped at 20 pretty early, and it felt like a waste of exp to use him for several chapters. Compounded by the fact that he's a necessary pick in every chapter.
If the do remake binding blade, they’ll probably keep Roy the same. IS seems to be maintain things like that for remakes. Imo I think itd be interesting to see a slighty better Roy, but I would they’d never make broken.
@@gilles4prezudent650 Been a few years since I made this video obviously, but I think I considered using that song but couldn't find a spot to have it playing that worked.
Weird that youtube shows me this video now, because I swear I've seen it before (especially because of the reference to Code Geass). Anyway, I don't think most people want Roy to promote earlier to make him a strong unit, but to make him not as much of a liability. The more I hear the "Roy is like the king in chess" analogy, the more it feels true but ultimately meaningless. What I mean is that it doesn't feel like much is added to the game because of that.
The views on this video seem to have spiked drastically as of a few months ago. So it's possible you saw it when I first shared it on Reddit and whatnot back when I uploaded it a couple years ago, and now the algorithm decided to like me and it's showing you again.
My take: Gameplay-wise, while it is true that Roy is fairly weak throughout most (if not all) of the game, he technically has the potential to be "strong" without overshadowing the others (arena, stat boosters, good RNG/rigging), and you can play around his weaknesses. Of course, this is also true for lots of characters. I think it's fair that some characters are allowed to be strong and some are allowed to be weak. Side tangent: Concept-wise, he's a skinny teenager stuck in the middle of a power fantasy who is only useful early on because of his Rapier, and only becomes OP later because of the Binding Blade. I get how it makes him look like a total wuss who gets carried by everything except his own capabilities, which some deem ill-fitting for a main character who is supposed to be carrying the story. Some players may find this idea to be compounded by the fact that he is surrounded by men who are (and who deserve to be) strong, like Marcus, Zealot, Rutger, Deke, Percival, etc. I'd say that Roy is barely capable enough to do what the story needs him to do, which is "be a morally upright lord and wield a sword". Though, the story of FE6 isn't all that special to begin with, and it suffers from the storytelling limitations set by the visual novel-style of the cutscenes, so the game might not give players a sense that Roy deserves his success, per se. He already has the potential to marry 6 girls, so making him strong in game would probably qualify him as a Gary-Stu. Overall though, I think it's fine. I might edit this later
It kinda reinforces the "strength through bonds" theme rather than singular powerful entities. Also stat boosters better on strong units unless it's boring to solo the game with Milady/Rutger/Percival lmao
Probably doesn't even need the stat boosters. I've done a run where I basically didn't touch Roy outside of the earlygame and the Binding Blade was still enough to totally carry him.
Ike promotes halfway through the game which matters a lot, he has higher growths in general so he gets out of his bad bases much faster combined with his first personal weapon being a slightly weaker steel sword with half the weight so Ike can actually hit decently hard since it isn't too hard to get him into doubling thresholds. Also Ike's promo bonuses are slightly above average for his game with being the only class that gets a +3 strength and +3 defense Skills existing help a lot. Ike can either Throw on Aether or run a wrath+resolve build which is the best build to beat the final boss. Speaking of Ike is literally needed to beat the final boss unless you plan on using Ena/Nasir for the build which Ena used worse but is the one you are probably going get especially without a built Ike. Also Ragnell giving infinite uses is a big deal for the end game. Ike has a decent amount going for him and is mainly held back by sword locked meaning no 1-2 range and mounted units bring probably the most busted they have every been.
Project Ember tried to answer the Roy Question. Yeah.......kinda messed up the dynamic of the game and became glorified fan fiction. Well,that was one of the various reasons why.
Your comments at the end nail this topic on the head. FE6 is designed around Roy being mediocre for most of the game (though I will say that in chapter 4 hard mode in particular, Roy is absolutely necessary, those Laus Cavaliers are so annoying). Even if they remake the game, I think they should keep Roy’s promotion where it is. Having it before he gets the Binding Blade wouldn’t change much, like you said, and would take away a lot of the fanfare around getting the Binding Blade.
Leave it as is. Roy promoting late is all story related than gameplay related. If he promoted earlier, no one would bother to build the rest of their force as there would be no incentive to do such.
I mean, I clearly don't think that's a problem at all. The game is like 50:50 on good and bad units, which is about where it should be for the sake of variety, and I'd argue only two of them (Wendy and Sophia) push unusable. I don't see why that'd be an issue anyway. Having everyone be good is boring and chances are some of your favorites are going to be among the good units anyway.
I think Roy being at level 20 for multiple chapters of the game feels awful, monkey brain want number going up
He should obviously promote at the hardest point of the game...Chapter 7!
You've done it! You've cracked the code!
Better Chapter 8!!!
If you've ever tried Project Ember, he can promote with a knight crest. And you can get one around that time or in 8x which makes him feel way better in the Western Isles.
You mean chapter 14?
What would really help Roy in mid late game is Rapier being effective on other horse units besides cavaliers, in Sacae he feel even more like a liability because there's nomads everywhere
The only reason I would want Roy (and by extension all lords) promote earlier is so they don't become a forced deploy exp sink
the virgin "roy should promote earlier" argument vs the chad "roy should have more than 5 base strength" argument (why IS?)
Honestly, from a character standpoint, I prefer if Roy promoted late and was mediocre throughout most of the game. A large part of his character is how he struggles with his position of leadership and how weak he is. He's a bit of a nerdy kid who was forced into a position he never wanted, and he struggles with depression and self-confidence issues because he's afraid of failing to meet expectations or even having his soldiers killed due to his incompetence. He loses sleep because he spends countless nights coming up with failproof plans, and he recklessly fights in the front lines so he can relate to his soldiers more and not feel so entitled and selfish. All of these characteristics are reinforced by how he performs gameplay-wise as he obviously sucks. I like to imagine his promotion as some sort of development as he pretty much took down a very large chunk of Bern's army as well as one of the Three Dragon Generals. He's gained such a massive boost of confidence from both the power of the Binding Blade itself as well as his militaristic achievements.
Roy's a just a pretty underrated character honestly. A lot of the stuff you mention goes unappreciated because the main story can probably do more to highlight it. A remake could easily touch up the script enough to make more people like Roy and hopefully gel better with how he's expressed in gameplay.
@@Gerd0 Both Shadow Dragon and Echoes did a lot to flesh out both Marth and Alm, so I really hope we get an FE6 remake so Roy gets the same treatment. One thing I really want them to change though is Roy's interactions with Lilina. I feel like she had a bunch of wasted potential, and I really want her to have a much bigger role in the main story. She can also flesh out Roy's personality in the process. Both struggle with the burden of leadership and constantly doubt their abilities. Another thing I didn't mention about Roy was how distant his friends became from him once he assumed the role of leader. Wolt for example started to treat him more like another noble rather than his childhood friend. I wish they would delve deeper into this as maybe a large reason Roy gets so attached to Lilina is because she's the only one who he feels comfortable talking to and the only one who understands him. There's probably a bunch of stuff I'm forgetting but there is so much you can do with these two characters
@@Falkion2040 Not making a good chunk of Roy's dialogue be him discussing the plot with Merlinus would be a start. Tons of potential if they gave some of those scenes to Lilina instead.
@@Gerd0 yeah roy is the best!
@dlee2040 A bunch of that is fanfiction you came up with. Roy doesn't 'fight recklessly in the front lines', that's Alen. He'll fight with the army, sure, but he's also the tactician and he struggles to make the right calls for his army's survivability.
I can see the Chess King comparison and I had actually seen it made before but I honestly still think having him THIS weak is too much.
The Chapter 16 promotion thing would be good, it wouldn't break character too much or make him too strong. If you're not already training him he'll still suck and training him would still be tricky but at least it'd kind of pay off.
And for whatever merits it has, having someone weak and crappy without support stuff like Micaiah or Leif just doesn't feel very fun.
roy is easily one of, if not THE, weakest lords in fire emblem. but that's fine.
Leif
@@voltron77 leif > roy because light brand and manster arc
@@rosheafan I guess, Roy’s still our boi though.
@@rosheafan and he has the chance to level up his movement
He's mid, but not bad
Honestly I don't see how Roy being weak is important to the game. All it means is that for the last third of the game Roy ends up just being carried by someone while Percival and Miledy kill everything so he can just be drop off.
It is bad unit feel and it is one of the reasons that a lot of people don't care for Roy outside smash.
It is one thing is Roy is not great in combat but the real issue is he is just useless since outside of staff and mounted utility combat is the only thing units bring in fe6.
For a great example of how to make a good weak lord look at our Lord and Saviour Leif. Despite being on the weaker end Leif is still considered ba fun and good character. Why? Combination of a fantastic personal weapon, giving supports to a lot of characters, stamina system making it so he is thr only unit you are guaranteed to use on every map and late promotion not being a factor because both promoted snd unpromoted classes have the same caps.
Also it is much easier to fix bad combat in fe5 with skills, scrolls and OP weapons while in fe6 if your combat skills well you will probably suck all game.
I'm currently playing Mangs balance patch of FE6. Basically it's a hack-room where he balances and fixes most of Binding Blade problems while staying true to the original desing philosophy and changing the game as little as posible. The thing is he made Roy promote after chapter 16 and, like you said in the video, at first it isn't that big of a change, but in terms of "Game feeling" it feels incredibly natural, like is the thing that is supposed to happen.
Yeah, he's not gonna become some kind of beast all of a sudden, but this way he's not dead weight and can go toe to toe with most of the enemies in the game and level up a lot more than he would normally do.
And you know what? By the time he gets the BB, and with the help of the bonus of the Blade, he is a really reliable late game unit. And I think that it fits his character a lot.
Roy starts as a kid that nobody takes seriosly, even himself struggles with self-confidence, and by the end of the game makes the imposible. I like your analogy with the king's chess, but at it's core FE is a RPG, so i like the idea of the king starting weak and later leading from the front. Shit, my roy has been able to do some reliable close combat damage to Murdock and Zephiel, which before this run I though impossible, and I found it really cool. Those moments felt like story driven encounters.
So after playing this patch I think that, if they remake FE6, they should definitely make Roy promote earlier, it fits a lot better with the story and the gameplay, and hopefully he starts to be seen more favourably by the fan base.
ROY'S OUR BOY 🔥🔥🔥
project ember did the same thing, and also added 2 to all of their bases
That man's cancelled homie
@@notdwaddler2013I don't think Mangs cares nor does Mangs' fans
@butteredsalmonella Well, the man's still a creep and really shouldn't be endorsed.
@@notdwaddler2013Legit nobody cares besides Snekkah fans stuck in 2020
I think Roy ended up being a prototype for Ike. Roy's promotion is essentially the same as when Ike gets his Ragnell. So if they staggered those 2 events a bit more, giving Roy an earlier promotion before getting the Binding Blade, I think he would be seen more as an average Lord. In my current Hard mode run, he's been consistently getting SOME kills all the way up until chapter 17 (where I am currently), particularly in chapters 5, 8x, 9, 10, 11 (Elphin route btw), 12, 14x (after some warp strats to remove Bolting users), and even 16. Is he as good as Alan, Rutger, Shanna, Deike, Miledy, or Percival? Fuck no, but he's doing his best! I find his awful level ups more funny than anything else at this point.
If anything, they might have been drawing from Marth for how they handled Roy since Marth doesn't get the Falchion until like the very end in both games he leads.
@@Gerd0 I think they also just realized that if it came any earlier, a lot of unsuspecting players would be locking themselves out of the true ending. With the other legendary weapons you need an S rank to use them, so most players will be waiting till close to the end anyway. With the Binding Blade as a prf weapon, a lot of players might have broken it before clearing Chapter 22 if it came any earlier.
The difference between Roy promoting earlier or after chapter 21x is how long he has to deal with the crippling lv cap and have no promo bonuses. He's not becoming any kind of S tier lord or better than the stronger units of your army but him being able to at least hold his ground a bit with terrain advantage and not getting doubled by freaking Berserker enemies. I think it'd be a game changer personally, we like Roy as he is he doesn't have to be a Sigurdlike powerhouse but atm he borders on helpless which just isn't fun, the fact that Rutger, Melady and the Paladins exist doesn't man your mediocre unit have no place in combat whatsoever, not everyone plays Fire Emblem to pick only the most cracked units available.
Honestly there's one basic reason he needs to promote earlier. Namely the Lord being dead weight just kinda sucks because they're mandatory on every map.
It's fine if he remains a weak-ish lord like his dad, but he still needs to be capable of something.
I don't think eliwood is as weak as Lyn he is not good like Hector like a middle ground. He is usable at least.
@@lovableairheadmile6809 Lyn isn’t that bad but u do need to get some luck with str growth. Also the fact people use guy a lot then I think lyn isn’t to bad plus mangs changed his mind a bit for lyn. Although I do admit lyn much better in heroes though. also lyn at least promotes a lot earlier than roy and good speed, skill, and luck and gets two good weapons earlier lol
@@ladyriethegoldendelmo5441 thats true that lyn isnt as bad as people thimk, however among the three fe7 lord she is the weakest imo
Honestly, I thinnk giving Roy atleast more mov. would be nice.
Just give him boots if you want that (I’ve done it before, and while I’d rather give them to the Dancer/Bard, it’s super convenient). Giving him more move would take away the chess king dynamic going on.
@@pksprite6401 Since every map is seize, Roy having the boots is furthered to be a good idea.
@@EikeKusch776 The first pair of boots in binding blade doesn't appear until Chapter 14. That's 13 seizes Roy has to make with his puny 5 mov, 15 counting gaidens. Even adding 1 extra to his base would alleviate the issue to some degree. Also you can't really use that as a fix for the issue, considering that pair of boots can go to literally anyone. This is why stat boosters aren't typically taken into account when discussing unit viability.
@RobotGuy405 Roy and the Bard/Dancer class are ideal contenders for boots. Also, mid game is where maps become larger to traverse on account of the game expecting you to have multiple promoted units with additional move. Though with how many high movement units the game throws at you, and access to the Warp & Harmmerne, sorta circumvent this. I am for Roy having higher starting movement however. Lord Class could have one more than other infantry by default similar to Alm and Celica in Gaiden.
Hmmm
Yeah I think that Roy promoting earlier without the Binding Blade is the best compromise. It doesn't make him insane, but for the average player, it makes him usable/not a deadweight. You still need to be careful with him, but you aren't actively going "god damnit roy" everytime an enemy slips by and one rounds him. Then when you get the BB, he becomes the Big Bad Roy from Smash (Ultimate) and runs over the rest of the game like in the original game. Win win in my books.
Problem is, if you want to use roy, he'll just be dead weight for half the game.
Roy promoting early would be a huge improvement, you'd get more fun out of a promotion that comes way too late in the game (without the true ending, you're literally reduced to just 1 chapter... wow)
Honestly, I would hav eloped if Roy promoted at the end of chapter 16 after killing Narcian because this is the start of the late game and where having a promoted Roy would be useful. Otherwise I love my boi Roy!
Funfact:roy being bad is a homenage to roy's original game:super smash bros melee
Promote him when Durandal is available
L protagonist. I shouldn't have to babysit a bad unit. If you're going to force deploy a unit on every map it should be at least not shit.
I thought about this a lot too. But my personal opinion is that not having roy promote when everyone else is promoted just makes him seem far more like dead weight than he actually is since he still has a lot of opportunitjes to be useful from early to Midgame. It's just when you know that promotion is coming far later than everyone else it like he's just there to the obligatory seize then be a unit you could be using then understanding that chip damage can be useful (there's a reason why light brands flat 10 at range makes roy a potential user of it)
I think people just want him to promote earlier so he has more movement and the map is less of a slog.
Surprised NO ONE talked about this
Like wasnt one of the biggest selling points of paladins their mov utility
And deathweight didnt come from him lagging behind with him being barely more mobile than a unpromoted armored unit.
Specially in a player phase focused game such as 6, with every chapter being a seize
Also abysmal caps suck on a game with high quality units such as binding blade
I honestly play Fire Emblem training the units I like the most (holy fuck how bland are half of the Horse units as characters). Having Roy being weak made me want to level him up so he isn't weak anymore, but after he hits 20 I found myself avoiding fights with him like he was still very weak just because making him fight at that point is a waste of XP, and since I fed a lot of kills to Roy early on my other units really need that XP caped lvl Roy would be throwing away.
My first FE was The Sacred Stones, then played FE7, then 6 (without knowing how absurd FE6 story would look knowing how FE7 story unfolds). Hector was a killing machine, I fucking hate Eliwood, Lyn was okay and both Hector and Lyn promote earlier in normal mode. Ephraim is super strong and Eirika gets too much hate, she is pretty okay and normally dodges a lot of attacks.
On the other hand Roy always feels like deathweight. Level him early and you will find yourself avoiding combat with him later on so he doesn't throw XP away, level him later (or try to) and you will feel hatred in its most purest and raw form. No matter wtf you do with him you will always have something to hate or be anoyed about Roy. Fuck him and Eliwood, damn I can't stand Eliwood, in my runs he always was super weak i don't know why he gets so much praise.
Anyway, if you don't play with the stronger meta units you will feel the Roy efect even harder. Playing with the characters you like the most regardless of his state in the tier list metaslaves make will make you feel miserable at some points. Roy sucks, must be a family thing.
The worst part about Roy is that, unlike any other lord in the GBA FE series, forces your hand a lot of times and it's not trust worthy, like his father. Fuck me, I really hate Eliwood.
I mean... If your plan is to train roy better train liliana, she is not going to double shit 80% of the runs and in the other 20 she is the one getting doubled, but atleast she is guaranteed to max magic without items unless you are the unluckist MF on the planet.
Well atleast western aisle is the moment that you are NOT going to train your pegasus knight nor lvl up your Christmas cavaliers spear ranks, and come on man, fyr sucks, specially if we compare her to rutger, specially because rutger should be almost level 20 if not already promoted if you use him as main dealer
I want him to promote earlier because if he doesn't I will die from cancer aids
honestly Ch 16 is a good chapter to promote Roy, Roy becomes the Leader of the WHOLE Eturian Army.
Only problem with Roy is that he's..... basic, generic, lame compared to the likes of Marth, Sigurd, Seliph, Leif, Eirika, Ephraim, Ike and heck even Eliwood his father has that and I can go on.(only character this doesn't apply to is Corrin because it's Corrin)
With what these characters personalities and background are built into their stats.
For example Ephraim has good Strength, Good Speed and Skill because of his reckless personality and strategic mind.
Dimitri hits like a truck because of his "boar" personality.
Not Roy, Roy doesn't have that personality that reflect in his stats. He's a basic protagonist because the story of FE 6 is basic as hell, probably the most basic story I played.
If there's going to be a FE6 remake they have to really revamp the story badly to prevent Roy from being a very basic Lord.
Idk how you didn’t pick up that Roy is incredibly clever, smart, and confident for his age and situation. He’s also very trusting, but weighs it with good rational decisions.
This isn’t a smash bandwagon I went back through FE6 and read the dialogue. How he handled the betrayal situation with Wagner is leagues beyond how Corrin handled the one kid in revelation.
He often counters Merlinus’s advice, the advisor his dad sent to be with him, and if you compare that to the previous lords none of them did that as frequently as Roy.
He sends a letter to Cecilia as soon as possible to get help from Bern.
When in the western isles Elffin leads him to believe his homeland is in danger, but knows Cecilia and his dad are still protecting it so chooses to stay it out and solve the issues in the western isles instead of impulsively running back to Lycia.
And if you read up on Roy’s supports with his knights. Roy is incredibly stubborn. Refuses to let Marcus retire, denies that he cant win a war without losing any troops, wants wolt to be his old friend again even though his position is the same as Marcus and Merlinus, and insists on being on the front lines.
He’s not poorly characterized at all.
I think Roy, Ike, and Sigurd are well done promotions regarding the story and gameplay fee the games are trying to go for. You already talked about Roy feeling like the King in chess that needs protecting, while the others convey things differently. Spoilers for those games btw.
While not noted as the best lord in the franchise, FE9 Ike in all my playthroughs gives me a great sense of progression. At first he’s kinda pitiful, with only his hp stat stand out and only with the angelic robe (which you can give to anyone else). But besides having good growths (and consistent if on fixed mode), unlike other Fire Emblem games he’s not missing out on his promotion relative to others because others aren’t getting theirs much sooner. Everyone has to grind to level 20 except for 4 master seals across the ENTIRE GAME! With that progression, you really feel Ike’s growth, going from unable to survive or double, to some bulk and doubling up with an effective weapon, to when he can eventually use a steel sword and stand on his own against most things in the game. You really feel weak and unable to reach Greil at first, then struggle without him, before finally when you launch your war against Daein able to face off almost anything in your way! (No axes in Tellius still hurts though…)
Sigurd meanwhile perfectly embodies the story and gameplay of Genealogy. He is a strong, confident man who has no doubts in his moral compass and is a proud carrier of Crusader Blood. Because of this, he has a simple but reliable skill in Pursuit, authority stars to strengthen himself and his allies, comes with his promotion and has all the weapon rank and growth bonuses that holy blood entails. To top it off, he even has a Silver sword starting towards the later half of the prologue.
Sigurd’s tale isn’t about him growing in power to live up to something unlike Ike or Seliph, but rather about his confidence to lead and help others and always keep pushing forward. It also helps narratively later on, as when Sigurd feels frustrated at his inability to stop the demise of those he cares about, it also hurts the player similarly when using him; we have all this power and STILL can’t stop fate. With how essential he is to the leading and support of the army, it also links the gameplay and narrative for the player’s experience when he meets his demise in gen 1; not only are you emotionally attached to him and his struggles, but you lose an essential piece to your gameplay that you don’t get back until Seliph reaches and passes his father’s potential, which also gives context for Seliph’s goals and might.
I think promotion can be more than just a gameplay moment, but a time of impact and reflection.
You're crazy not even on Manic my Ike cannot die. Because Luck stat is broken just like in Echoes. And 12
Yup. I always thought the character power can be a strong storytelling tool.
A game like Disgaea, has characters be alleged badasses cream of the crop types from the start. Despite that, they are statistically outclassed by shopkeepers. And may not catch up until midgame.
That said, I would probably buff up Roy's bases a bit, namely his skill. Just to suit his tactical mind. That shouldn't take away what makes roy, roy or FE6 FE6. But it would be nice little nod to his background and character.
you make some good points but idk it's just frustrating having him sit there at lvl cap for like 10 chapters
I think people under estimate Roy, well sure, he's rather weak, and he promoteslate, and he will never really be the magic thingyou send to whackanything that comes at you, but in the end, you have to train him to keep him alive, which mean that a trained Roy is a decent fighter, nothing to write home about of course, but he can hold his own
When thisstarts getting an issue though, is the late promotion, it's not that it will turn him into God of course, it just means that at some point, Roy will cap, and once there, he can't get any more exp, and he won't grow anymore, which is why it gets dangerous, asfoes are promoting and getting stronger, while Roy doesn't (this issue is probably exacerbated by Sacae) which is why, evenwithout the powerful binding blade (who may like a bit more uses), Roy should promote earlier, just so he can keep getting exp and not turn into a huge liability for your whole squad
Well, that's my opinion after !
As someone who's never played The Binding Blade and has only experienced the game through watching videos about it on TH-cam, I'm fine with Roy's late promotion. It's a unique trait to him that gives the player a different challenge than having a Lord who's average at combat (or excels at it), and as far as I'm aware it fits in with his story to be underpowered. I kinda see it as similar to Thracia's notorious difficulty and mechanics - if they ever remade that game, I'd hope they kept most of it intact because even if it's obtuse, it made that game stand out from the other FE entries (keep in mind I said "most", not all because some of what I've seen would've given me nightmares if I ever played that game).
Yeah I agree. Roy having a earlier promotion would be more of a formality than something to make him good. He kind of mirrors Marth's in the way his promotion is more connected to him getting a legendary weapon
I dont want roy to promote to make him powerful, i just want him to be able to level again
Roy promoting earlier would bump his mid game performance by a lot largely from the huge gain in attack speed he gets. He gains 4 attack speed from promotion when using the killing edge, one of the best swords in the game, which is huge for doubling thresholds. The other stat bonuses and extra movement are the cherry on top.
Roy’s our boi! Roy is the best lord ever!
I've never understood the Roy whining. Which is exactly what it is. I'm not an FE super fan, but within the context of FE6, I find him to be more than fine. Essential, even, to the early game slog. And more than able to do some damage all the way through. I'd rather have him than Eliwood, and Eliwood's fine in his own game, too, which is really what matters.
There's no getting around the averageness. And the late promo sucks no matter how you slice it. But I don't think the game was designed for Roy to be weak, it was just designed to be hard. And since your main character you have to keep alive promotes so late, he's at a disadvantage and has to be kept in mind with the strategy. It's just that that disadvantage has been greatly exaggerated. Especially in hard mode, where his "main character" syndrome kind of offsets the hardness. I don't remember ever ending up with an unusable Roy. Just one that promotes late.
It my first Time in chapter 21 and Dragon lances cant get me i dont defete the boss yet and i am in turn 27 i dont know if possible promote him but i s a hard battle and i dont want to repeat again
Bruh i just want him to promote so he unlocks his other 20 levels and i am not stuck with a unite thats caped and cant fight because it like shoving EXP down the drain.
You do protect the king in chess, but when there aren't many pieces left the king becomes the best piece.
It does have diet queen movement
Ya know what i thought? It would be cool if roy when promoted its normal attack animation changes and shows a more skilled roy attacking instead of its same reckless movement, the binding blade one is still cool tho
I feel like you're kind of missing the point for promoting Roy earlier. Its not so he can become a good unit but rather so he can be usable. A majority of Roy's presence in FE6 is essentially a wasted slot you can't take him out of. He is a flat out wrong choice to bring along in a position where you have no choice but to bring him. Promoting him early won't make him a good unit; it'd just make him not a bad unit anymore. And having a character, especially a main character you need to bring along in every map is usually a bad design choice. Even Eliwood and Lyn afterwards are not good units, but neither are terrible either and can be reliably usable all game long unless you're playing specifically for the hardest settings; something Roy fails at even on a casual play level.
I get the whole king in chess thing, but the inherent flaw there is if we are forced to take a unit along who contributes nothing to the team whatsoever and we cannot fix that, then why should we want to take him along in the first place? Nobody brings Roy along in FE6 because they want to. They bring him because they don't get a say in the matter.
Thats the point of Roy promoting late, he might be the main character but he aint strong or anything like other lords. He is suppose to struggle, thats why the binding blade is so busted, without it Roy isnt "powerful"
@@davzzler This vid goes out of its way to show that even with a promotion he would still struggle, which means the point is still valid. He becomes badass once he has the Binding Blade, not once he promotes. The two happening at the same time are purely incidental. Therefore simply allow him to promote whenever and keep the Binding Blade where it is.
Besides, what he is now isn't struggling. Its being completely and utterly useless until he isn't. That's the problem.
@@GameAW1 Yea but still he isnt completely unusable because there are still several enemies that he can fight reliably and contribute, and also he can support bot Alance and Lilina. But giving him a stronger weapon other than his 50 rapier uses after around chapter 13 to 16
would definitely make using him less frustrating
@@clinical-lv8om The further you go, the less and less enemies can actually be killed by him. And if Roy is particularly RNG screwed, he'll be lucky to hurt sages. Even without that, the trades he has between foes gradually becomes less and less worth it to the point that his best contribution is being picked up by someone like Gonzales and ferried to the seize point.
Besides, though we call it horny chess, its important to remember that Fire Emblem is not chess and shouldn't actually be treated as such. That would just be bad design. If Marth can be a solid enough unit in combat before Falchion without needing severe babying, why is it wrong for Roy to have the same?
My analysis here is from the perspective of Roy already being usable. From my experience of bothering to invest in him on both normal and hard mode, he absolutely is. He'll be no work horse, but he can chip in a kill every once in a while and take a couple hits if needed (especially if you've given him one of the not hotly contested angelic robes).
I think you're setting the bar for usable way too high. It's not like he's Wendy or Sophia where even feeding them kills is about as pleasant of an experience as bashing your head against a wall. Roy at least has the luxury of being available during chapters that are very conducive to getting him going.
great video! I do agree it is one of the most identifiable traits of FE6 having Roy as a mediocre "king" type of unit. I didn't really learn to appreciate it until years after my first playthrough of Binding Blade. Can't wait for a remake!
I never expected to click on a Fire Emblem video just to be greeted by the amazing Summer Pockets OST
Key soundtracks are peak game music
I only really found his lategame promotion annoying because once he's capped, he just becomes an exp drain when engaging in combat. In reality, he just sits in the backlines and gets rescue chained or warped to the throne room once the fighting clears down.
Requiring a plot device (in this case, the Binding Blade) to have him promoted is just a terrible idea to me, in the sense of the plot, it felt like Roy never had merits, never gained or learned strength from his adventure from Lycia to Bern and that he only really became strong because of the legendary weapon.
It would probably be nicer if Roy had a 2-range weapon.
When it comes to the plot of both Blazing and Binding Blade, at least the MacGuffin to promotion in FE7 was a Heaven Seal, not a legendary weapon. It showed that the Lycian Lords already had strength or rather gained the strength before Athos gave them the legendary weapons. In both games, its evident that you need the legendary weapons to defeat the dragons and Hector being a seasoned fighter, was still killed by them.
Idunn and her manaketes were weaker than the dragon that Nergal summoned meaning that the Lycian Lords plotwise were really just stronger than Roy against Idunn. It felt like it wasnt really Roy defeating Idunn, rather the Binding Blade wielding itself and Roy's empathy to Idunn that acted the Binding Blade not to kill Idunn. Comparing the Fire Dragon and Idunn felt wrong to me but the battles kind of showed that Roy was really just not strong and that his strength is derived from the Binding Blade as he was chosen by the sword. Really, remove the sword from him and he's pathetic. Plot device and his overreliance on the weapon.
I like the idea of promoting him after Chapter 16 or 16x. This was the moment Roy's army merges with Etruria and became something called Etrurian Liberation Army (I kind of forgot). The King (or even Elphin) or the Bishops in Elimine's Tower gives him a Heaven Seal that was probably meant for Elphin before he "died". The Heaven Seal is given as a token of appreciation for liberating Etruria and signifies how far Roy has come in his campaign and the plot progresses as forward, could probably give him a mid-game prf weapon too, effective 1-2 range hopefully. Nothing drastic really but stat changes that allows him to keep up with the rest of the army. Chapter 16 itself is a pretty massive map, plenty of combat and his low movement of 5 really shows in that map.
It does however make getting that legendary weapon feel special. Plus I feel like this very uncharitable take of Roy. The thing about Roy is he not strong and he doesn’t feel like he’s ready. Him being accepted by the blade is good pay off. Same way Arthur pulling exacibur is one.
@@rances4418 Relying on a plot device: The Binding Blade to make Roy "feel strong" instead of through people recognizing his own exploits and achievements IS uncharitable of him. By the time he liberated Aquleia, he already liberated Lycia, the Western Isles and Nabata, defeated Narshen and forced the corrupt Etrurian nobles to flee the palace. What Roy needs is for people to recognize him, not an overpowered sword that virtually makes Roy "nothing" without it. Ike got the same treatment in both his games, with Sanaki both giving him the Begnion army to command and Yune recognizing him as one of the strongest soldiers amongst Beorc and Laguz, mind you, FE9 Ike got Ragnell in Chapter 27, applying the same logic with Roy, that practically means Ike should promote by the tail end of Chapter 26? Nonsense. Ike promotes and was recognized by Sanaki by the end of Chapter 17 and even the twins Ephraim and Eirika obtained their bracelets and legendary weapons after liberating Renais in Chapter 16. 22 Chapters and 6 Gaiden Chapters and Roy is still unpromoted, discovers a weapon he has not even heard of and just decides that the sword makes him strong. Roy should have been recognized for his efforts in the war in Etruria.
Another consideration could be to make him like Marth from Shadow Dragon. Where his promotion still happens late, but he's allowed to level up beyond 20th level. In my opinion, the worst part about using Roy is him being stuck at 20th level while the rest of your army continues to out pace him combat wise. I think a higher level cap could strike a good balance between keeping the integrated story aspect of Roy's weakness, while remove the frustration of him being essentially dead weight for many chapters.
I wouldn't be too surprised if a remake just made Roy a doesn't promote class that goes up to lv 40 and gave him the +1 mov he'd otherwise get from that into the base class.
I don't understand what I did wrong but the last chapter I got to play was the one right after promoting. 🤷♂️ After Zephiel is defeated, end credits.
Also I got the sense of Roy being an unimpressive Lord pretty early on and babied him from the start, so he was actually really reliable mid game. It wasn't until everyone else was promoting where it felt bad to basically not use Roy (to not waste EXP). Roy isn't a bad unit, he just isn't a super soldier like most FE Lords, which I agree feels better. He doesn't need to promote sooner story wise but it does feel bad to take him out of the action so soon- he should promote around the time half of your units have promoted tbh.
If you haven't done all the optional chapters and don't have all of the S rank weapons still in tact, you get a premature ending right after Zephiel. So you either missed the requirements for one of those chapters (16x is the usual suspect for that I think) or got a bit over zealous with using one of the weapons and broke it.
No
Neat video. What is the name of the track used during your conclusion?
Sea, You & Me from Summer Pockets
roy is our boy!
finally, someone said it. Gameplay-wise Roy's promo barely matters at all and is mostly held in such high regards because of how incredibly busted the Binding Blade is. Seriously, look at how good base Roy does in 0% growth runs with it, he contributes just fine overall and exceptionally well for a unit that joined with shaky bases all the way back in chapter 1.
ive had runs end because pro got doubled by javelins by unpromoted wyverns before the true route split...... bro needs a early promote. also my roy is around 20 by the time yours is 15 because i feel forced to baby him so he can not get doubled or one shot by silver weapons and then any action he gets is a waste of exp and he is still the weakest on the deployed team. You cant defend it
I think something overlooked here is the difference the boost from a promotion can make in allowing Roy to snowball.
Sure, 2 strength and speed really isnt worth writing home about, but if it allows him to double or 1-round a few more enemies, it *can* allow him to spiral into a decent unit.
The Binding Blade is basically Roy’s plot armor. I don’t think he needs an earlier promotion, just keep them safe and feed some kills to him during the main game and let him go nuts in the end game.
First time I got through Hard Mode Roy was so speed screwed he couldn't even double manaketes post promotion. He got 2 speed levels before promotion. And yeah he was level capped. Wasn't even fun to use at that point. His biggest contribution is chip damage in chapter 4.
Maybe I played weird, but my Roy capped at 20 pretty early, and it felt like a waste of exp to use him for several chapters. Compounded by the fact that he's a necessary pick in every chapter.
My Roy is level 20 in the chapter 20 💀
I just complete shadow dragon and i think that roy works like marth with lv 30 for the level cap
If the do remake binding blade, they’ll probably keep Roy the same. IS seems to be maintain things like that for remakes. Imo I think itd be interesting to see a slighty better Roy, but I would they’d never make broken.
Forget the promotion part, only him reaching a cap level 25 is enough for me. He's basically getting no exp by the time he arrives in Illia or Sacae.
So... Did you use music from Summer Pockets to fuck with me specifically?
Yes
Then use white loneliness next time. It's the best song.
@@gilles4prezudent650 Been a few years since I made this video obviously, but I think I considered using that song but couldn't find a spot to have it playing that worked.
@@Gerd0Quitter talk. You're a keyge gigachad, you're better than this.
Weird that youtube shows me this video now, because I swear I've seen it before (especially because of the reference to Code Geass). Anyway, I don't think most people want Roy to promote earlier to make him a strong unit, but to make him not as much of a liability.
The more I hear the "Roy is like the king in chess" analogy, the more it feels true but ultimately meaningless. What I mean is that it doesn't feel like much is added to the game because of that.
The views on this video seem to have spiked drastically as of a few months ago. So it's possible you saw it when I first shared it on Reddit and whatnot back when I uploaded it a couple years ago, and now the algorithm decided to like me and it's showing you again.
7:30 sorry, but who did you mention?
Hammerne. That's why I followed that with a clip of the village you get it in getting destroyed.
@@Gerd0 thanks.
My take:
Gameplay-wise, while it is true that Roy is fairly weak throughout most (if not all) of the game, he technically has the potential to be "strong" without overshadowing the others (arena, stat boosters, good RNG/rigging), and you can play around his weaknesses. Of course, this is also true for lots of characters. I think it's fair that some characters are allowed to be strong and some are allowed to be weak.
Side tangent:
Concept-wise, he's a skinny teenager stuck in the middle of a power fantasy who is only useful early on because of his Rapier, and only becomes OP later because of the Binding Blade. I get how it makes him look like a total wuss who gets carried by everything except his own capabilities, which some deem ill-fitting for a main character who is supposed to be carrying the story. Some players may find this idea to be compounded by the fact that he is surrounded by men who are (and who deserve to be) strong, like Marcus, Zealot, Rutger, Deke, Percival, etc. I'd say that Roy is barely capable enough to do what the story needs him to do, which is "be a morally upright lord and wield a sword". Though, the story of FE6 isn't all that special to begin with, and it suffers from the storytelling limitations set by the visual novel-style of the cutscenes, so the game might not give players a sense that Roy deserves his success, per se. He already has the potential to marry 6 girls, so making him strong in game would probably qualify him as a Gary-Stu. Overall though, I think it's fine. I might edit this later
It kinda reinforces the "strength through bonds" theme rather than singular powerful entities. Also stat boosters better on strong units unless it's boring to solo the game with Milady/Rutger/Percival lmao
What's the music playing in the "Roy's Performance" section?
It's "Rainbow Butterflies" from the Summer Pockets OST. Every song in this video is from that.
It doesn't matter because two power ring and the binding blade is all he needs to shitstomp the rest of the game
Probably doesn't even need the stat boosters. I've done a run where I basically didn't touch Roy outside of the earlygame and the Binding Blade was still enough to totally carry him.
Never expected to hear Summer Pockets music in a Fire Emblem video. That's basically combining my interests, which is quite shocking to me
Someone had to fill the niche of Fire Emblem stuff with Key soundtracks.
@@Gerd0 That definitely makes me happy.
Roy has the same bases as Ike, if FE9 ike is not considered bad, Roy shouldn't either
Context matters though. Ike has the luxury of being in an easier game.
@@Gerd0 I mean yeah, but roy is also on one of the best games to be sword locked
Ike promotes halfway through the game which matters a lot, he has higher growths in general so he gets out of his bad bases much faster combined with his first personal weapon being a slightly weaker steel sword with half the weight so Ike can actually hit decently hard since it isn't too hard to get him into doubling thresholds.
Also Ike's promo bonuses are slightly above average for his game with being the only class that gets a +3 strength and +3 defense
Skills existing help a lot. Ike can either Throw on Aether or run a wrath+resolve build which is the best build to beat the final boss.
Speaking of Ike is literally needed to beat the final boss unless you plan on using Ena/Nasir for the build which Ena used worse but is the one you are probably going get especially without a built Ike.
Also Ragnell giving infinite uses is a big deal for the end game.
Ike has a decent amount going for him and is mainly held back by sword locked meaning no 1-2 range and mounted units bring probably the most busted they have every been.
My roy was a beast from the beginning I gave only 1 goddess icon and he killed whatever I wanted him too
It doesn't matter because Roy is trash either way
Project Ember tried to answer the Roy Question. Yeah.......kinda messed up the dynamic of the game and became glorified fan fiction. Well,that was one of the various reasons why.
I'm not too opposed to having him promote with an item whenever. But also giving him a horse was pushing it a bit.
my favorite roy is the one i had in my second fe6 run. at lv20 lord he had capped speed and 8 strength. still one rounded idunn!
Idunn really is just "Use Roy on dragon". Good stuff.
Your comments at the end nail this topic on the head. FE6 is designed around Roy being mediocre for most of the game (though I will say that in chapter 4 hard mode in particular, Roy is absolutely necessary, those Laus Cavaliers are so annoying).
Even if they remake the game, I think they should keep Roy’s promotion where it is. Having it before he gets the Binding Blade wouldn’t change much, like you said, and would take away a lot of the fanfare around getting the Binding Blade.
Leave it as is. Roy promoting late is all story related than gameplay related. If he promoted earlier, no one would bother to build the rest of their force as there would be no incentive to do such.
This game is hated for that reason. For giving us weak ass units, and the lord is garbage (roy).
I mean, I clearly don't think that's a problem at all. The game is like 50:50 on good and bad units, which is about where it should be for the sake of variety, and I'd argue only two of them (Wendy and Sophia) push unusable. I don't see why that'd be an issue anyway. Having everyone be good is boring and chances are some of your favorites are going to be among the good units anyway.
Fe6 to me became synonymous with fuck u rng. To be clear, I meant rng that specifically screws you over,