We Drowned An eBike | Did We Kill It?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 มิ.ย. 2024
- The Giant eBike battery system is said to be the safest on the market, also boasting some incredible longevity numbers such as 2300 cycles before there's any drop in charging potential. Giant say you can drive a car over it or full submerge it, and it'll be absolutely fine. So we're out today to test this theory... let's go swimming!
In association with Giant Mountain Bikes 👉 embn.me/Giant
⏱ Timestamps ⏱
00:00 - An Introduction To E-Bike Batteries
01:19 - River Crossing
03:40 - Fully Submerged!
05:13 - 3 Weeks Later...
06:47 - Can You Drive A Car Over It?
07:37 - Some Battery Safety Features
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Of course, don't try this at home! There are a lot more components and nuances to all of our individual e-bikes which don't love to be fully submerged in water. Let us show you for demonstrative purposes so that if you do come to that river crossing, you can make a sensible decision based on your ability and the terrain. And whilst the battery is rated for 10 tonnes of pressure, we won't be making a habit of purposefully driving over it!
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Missed the most important part of the water test. Open the motor afterwards to see if there was water ingress through the seals. A motor will work with water in it but bearings and the components inside will corrode.
Yeah, I wanna know if the motor still works in 1000 miles or a year later
Yep, when electric motor runs gets warm, expells air in casing. After stopping if cable glands are wet the water can get drawn in by the partial vacuum caused by the cooling motor
Not like they don’t have access to an eBike qualified tech who hasn’t featured on the channel before. Yorkshire bike mechanic I think? Did the Bosch rebuild video with Steve.
Good point! Yes, you’re absolutely right. My experience is with power tools, DeWalt to be specific and yeah! They run after being wet, but for how long? 🤔
I was thinking the same. Need to take motor apart to check for water ingress. My mates Spez with Brose went of for servicing and despite the electrics all working just fine the bearings were shot, very rusty and the gearbox etc had obviously been getting wet for a long time! Was rebuilt with existing electrics.
The ‘accidental’ dropping of the battery in the water was some of the worst acting I’ve ever seen Mr Jones! You now have the skills to join one of the soaps - they’re probably crying out for a Welsh accent in Eastenders 😆
Beat me to it 😅
I've crossed a few rivers on my 2015(!) Haibike Sduro Cross and it still runs like new. After 5 years and 12.000 kilometres I had it serviced by an experienced mechanic who changed bearings and seals and re-greased the motor. Now I have it re-greased every year to insure it stays as waterproof as possible and keep running smooth. I bike all year going from 25 degrees sunshine to below 25 degrees and full blizzard and everything in between. Living in Norway = tons of salt on every road, pavement and sidewalk from late October to early May. Added with slush, rain, snow extreme cold going back to above zero with rain to next day 15 below zero and a world covered in 5 cm rock hard ice = hars conditions for ebikes. So regular service is important to keep ebikes running.
Some of the places you ride are just spectacular scenery. My 1st full suspension mtb is a 2013 Giant Anthem X 29er 1, bought from a local bike shop in San Diego, CA in 2016. It was their demo bike. Love it. March 2023 I bought a used 2017 Giant Full E+ 1, 27.5" emtb. Love this bike so very much. Since I'm now 55, I felt I needed a little bit of assistance. I'm a big fan of this channel and GMBN. Maintain your excellence and peace ✌️ out.
3:19 Pete from the repair center is shaking his head right now.
3 of us this year had to ride through a flooded river, submerging our motors for a good 100 yards a Bosch, Shimano and fazua motors, all survived!
Nice to see the wellies are back!
Good video Steve. I had a dead Specialized battery from Levo SL and I opened that one up to see what cells were inside. Like the Giant battery, the Specialized is also compartmented cells
Thanks for an interesting video but the water problem mainly affects motors. not batteries. Water ingress along the drive shaft and the speed sensor is a well-known and ongoing problem for some makes of motor as a quick scan of the eMTB forums will show..
I didn't know this when I got my Trance E+ in Nov 2022 but have got caught after rides multiple times on the road coming home in torrential downpours with bikes on the hitch rack. At 60-70mph I was concerned about the waterproofing. So far so good! Same for my son's Canyon with the Shimano ep801.
We did make a point to let them dry and clean out charging ports before plugging in - maybe not necessary but seems like common sense.
Transporting is exactly what concerns me. Trying to envision a cover for the motor.
I've done the same on my trek rail numerous times and had no problems, nearly 3 year on and no problem what so ever from Bosch.
Really!? Interesting 🤔
I wish these motors would allow for self service 🤷🏻♂️
After a dip like this is exactly what I would like to do. Best of luck on longevity of your motor 👍🏽
WoW. I'm on my 5th Bosch DU...
All I know is, I’ve several emtb mates who are on multiple motors and batteries. They fail several times per year so ensure you have a backup bike. They still love them though.
3:40 I noticed a hole in my rim the other day and wondered what it was for other than weight savings LOL.
I don't have a stream running through my house so I can't try this at home. :)
All in the name of science. Well done sir. 🎉
Love the braveheart music 😄
One of the most important mods to my ebike is waterproofing. I have a bunch of electronics on it, and few of them come fully waterproof. Depending on the situation, I will use crazy glue, silicone, epoxy, UV adhesive, dual-wall heatshrink tubing, and sometimes even waterproof clear tape. I have a waterproofed USB charger permanently wired to each device, with a waterproof control panel that has a passthrough keepalive and on/off switch for each device, to toggle charging. The phone setup is more complex. I use a waterproof phone case with a charging cable inside thats wired to a waterproofed wireless power receiver on the outside of the case, which aligns with a waterproofed wireless charger when the case is mounted. This allows me to "plug" and "unplug" the phone to/from its charging system in the rain seamlessly, which is necessary when I work Uber Eats
I made an involuntary dive into a creek and I got myself and the bike ( a Scott Strike eMTB with Bosch motor) out within seconds, and my bike is still running no problems over a year later.
A great test. It's something that I am always worried about. Water in the motor and battery
My Orbea Wild with Bosch motor endured a very wet Trans Cambrian Way and Elan Valley expedition last year and survived. It was unfazed after a drowning on the sunken road near the Claerwen Dam.
I've seen a lot of rusty grime in CX motors hey Bosch step up
Batteries that's an different .
I like how that cells separation in case of malfunction of cell works.
Great video
Being I’m 🏴I love the rain , crossed rivers here in the Lake District were I live now at wellie height no problem with my Giant Trance 🤘
Finally. Thanks!
I want to know what wheels and tyres were on the Caddy...
Oh and my Giant Trance has had many a dunking without any issues whatsoever. 😊
got an 2023 trance x e+ 2 yesterday so this is good to know xd
Always good weather guys😂
Nice but im interested if the bike will work after a year. Probably bearings have got some corrosion if water inside and its not shown within weeks.
I'm more interested in motor's waterproofness...mine after 300km from new (wet rides, washed only with garden hose) developed a squeak in the bearings, granted it goes away after a mile or so from start but still means the must've been water ingress (motor was never submerged and is kept indoors)
what motor brand?
Being 🏴 I only get to ride in the rain and wet.. so if any manufacturers read this and want me test their bikes thoroughly.. I am available 😂😂
I doubt it. I've had my Kenevo pretty wet with no drama and ridden it through water that went well over the mid-drive several times.
From what I hear, its the connections to the battery that suffer from water splashing here and there, then there's the spindle the crank is on, it has seals that can let water in, and the outer parts of the motor are what get cleaned when mud gets in.
Some bikes are easier to get the battery out of to dry connections, Ive heard of some taking 8 hours to dry on their own before they run again.
If water gets in and around the motor and carries fine silt with it? Well that's it then isn't it?
But as a life long trailrider on motorcycles, water is for sure a part of trail riding, 3 feet or more can be crossed on a properly set up dirtbike. Unless you hit the right rock the wrong way, and the whole mess goes under water including the rider.
It can destroy wheel bearings, suspension linkage bearings, if water gets in a 4 stroke engine the oil turns into a milkshake of sorts and destroys every moving part of the engine, transmission included, unless you dump the oil and replace it out on trail.....not likely.
yeah well after spending 450 quid getting my motor rebuilt because of water ingress (light power wash cleaning ) I would not even think of going through puddles anymore
I can't believe the divergence in water ingress experiences. Catastrophes with minor ingestion and others submerging with no issues years later.
I have a different experience with my GIANT REIGN E+ 2 PRO M 2020. If I wash it, if I get average rain on a ride, I can't use the bike for at least three days! Same with my husband's GIANT INTRIGUE E+ 1 PRO XS 2020.
I did as well have a similar experience with my 2020 Intrigue e+ pro 1. Was riding across a shallow river crossing and the motor just cut out lost all power. Took about 2 days for it to dry and come back to life. Has limited some of my adventures not trusting it to die again or permanently damage it.
I drowned mine in Devon last weekend - it cut out mid puddle. Lots of faffery and couldn't get it going. Went back through the puddle and it started up randomly half way through and then get me home! Don't recommend submerging the whole motor lol - Santa Cruz Heckler and Shimano motor.
I have the same set up and submerged it today and still hasn’t turned back on. You didn’t have to take yours out and let it dry or anything?
@@collinstoker4905 no but it did take battery out and clear / dry connections a bit on trail. It was only when back in water it turned back on! Been fine since tho
Water combined with Lithium produces Hydrogen Gas! ie The Hindenburg...is a possible Great demo and report Stevie!!! Thanks for all your work!
There's no metallic Lithium in Lithium Ion batteries, what they use is a chemical conpound
Great video, most of the top emtb manufacturers will use battery packs that have the best 18650 cells from the main manufacturers like Sanyo & Panasonic, Can't wait to see the new sodium ion batteries come into play on emtb packs, they can be discharged fully and will have loads more range than current batteries😊
18650 are old dated and have less capacity. 21700 are the best for emtb.
@@piotrsmolarz2629 that's what it meant to have said, just I've been working on some old 18650 packs recently.
I'd like to see you do this with EP8 😂😂😂
Not going to convince me. My mate is now on the 3rd motor in his Giant Reign, 1st due to water ingress, not into the battery but into the motor. 2nd was pretty quick afterwards due to noisy bearings. At least they agreed to warranty the 2nd one as it was bought when the 1st failed out of warranty did take them 6 weeks plus though.
Looks like giant have come a long way since I bought one of their ebikes about 7yrs ago. I had nothing but water ingress issues with it. It spent longer in bike shops being repaired than being ridden. It's put me off ebikes forever.
I think I would still be drying it off the best I can before powering it on again!
Next video, Steve visits David at the eBike Motor Centre for a strip down.
I’m about to be a member of the E mountain bike world! Just ordered a Bulls copperhead Evo AM 1 750 for 3k! 😍 loving that price 😊
I’ve watched a BUNCH of your videos mate and not one review on the Bulls?
Unless I missed it then my bad, but really looking forward to joining the EMBN community.
It will also be my first full suspension so I’m sure I’m in for a treat.
Don’t get me wrong, my hard tail gets ridden HARD, and bc of that I was afraid of full suspension as it would take my control away and end up causing me a serious fall. I know, stupid thinking, old school here. Well not anymore! 😃
Dig the channel! 🤙🏽🤙🏽🤙🏽
yep ip67, but I don't think that will prevent total water ingress submerged, or bearing/lubed parts from failing.
Shimano 800 or EP801.
Looking at a new bike at it has the 800. I’m not worried about auto shift.
I've had to ford a flooded trail with a shimano steps e8000 motor and it was fine. I did have to stop to empty my shoes though!
That's why Steve recommends wellies 👢
No Oscar for the upps dropping scene. But well.
The motor will take it for a while but finally gets water in and sees damage in the longer run. Be it on the bearings or on the electronics.
One cannot stress enough, and EMBN does already stress that in this video, that you should NEVER EVER submerge a Lithium-Ion battery in water. Yes your battery is supposed to be watertight, but if it isn't....for whatever reasons like damage or a manufacturing fault, you will regret that you did it. Depending on the size and capacity of your battery you may even regret this by paying with your life. Lithium is a highly reactive metal, it reacts with oxygen just as it does with water and many other things. When it reacts with water, one of the byproducts created is hydrogen gas which in turn is highly combustible and may even combust in an explosion when in turn reacting with oxygen in the air. If your li-ion battery should catch fire NEVER EVEN THINK of extinguishing it with water ! It will not go out, it will burn even stronger and hotter or even explode like a grenade as you are just feeding the fire with hydrogen gas. Only try to extinguísh it with CO2 foam, sodium carbonate or powder graphite. Even that will turn out to be quite difficult but it works best.
There's no metallic Lithium in Lithium Ion batteries. They use a chemical compound.
It's like Sodium - which is highly reactive too. If you get that in a compound with Chloride however you have simple salt, which is in every sea and ocean and not reactive any more
Btw, fire fighters are usually exguinguishing battery fires with water, the water is also cooling the pack preventing other cells from thermal runway.
Every single cell is sealed by itself, no matter if you use cylindrical cells or Pounch cells
Sponsored by WD-40 ? Keep up the good work lads !!!
i want to see it with a bosch Gen 4
Rather Steve than me jumping into a pool of electric conducting water with a high voltage battery. ⚡️ ☠️
I’m glad it held up, interesting test.
All in the name of science!
I have a giant reign e+1 and breaks down after a splash in a puddle 🤦 I have to take the battery out and dry the contacts which is a huge pain especially when the lever to take the battery out is almost impossible to unlatch
I have a Giant E+0, ridden through streams and fords all the time, rides in the wet, cleaned with a hose or low power pressure washer, never had a problem.
The battery mount /catch is adjustable maybe set up wrong from the factory?though you may need a security torque bit to do it
Hi love your videos, my Giant has had 22 charges and dropped to max 98% charge capacity is that right based on you 2300 charge comment?
It's not unusual for Li Ion batteries to have a higher degradation at the beginning and a lower degradation curve later. So I think it's no reason to be worried about
@@simonm1447 thanks Simon
Ask some bikes shops how many motors they are changing due to water ingress causing bearing failure or circuit board failure. Ebike motors are not good enough and have an alarmingly high failure rate! but I guess you wont want to upset the manufactures by reporting this.
Try The same with anather brand like bosh shimano
The problem with e bikes is is also obsolescence, manufacturer and backwards compatibility. If after 2 years ownership you get water ingress to the battery/ motor, then you have the issue that, the battery shape, size, voltage has moved on, the mountings are different for the motor, you also need a new charger. E-bikes are like where mobile phones were in the 2000’s. If some standardisation was brought in, at least you would know you could get a new battery or motor for your bike should water be an issue a couple of years down the road..
Of course it will survive being submerged. It’s a brand new bike. Try this after a year or two when seals are a bit perished.
This feels like I'm watching an advert.
All electrical motors will run under water,old RC motors used to be broken in...in a basin of water 💧
"Don't do this at home". - okay, I'll do it outside.
My 2017 levo battery ,,think leaks around lights ,,keep clear tape over it , but stuff just keeps getting better ..no matter what some cavemen say eh
yeah, but is giant guarantee works if bike stop working after I accidentally dive my bike? :>
It's different for the different models, best bet is to read up on the warranty provided with your bike! Most of the time water damage won't be covered which is why we highly recommend not trying this at home (or out on the trail) 🏠
Well bmz battery last 10.000 cycles and they got 750w and version over 900w not with seal like that one but still..
as long u don’t use saltwater .! ❤️👀
They aren't. My new Yamaha 7 was flashing RED warning lights. Pulled the battery and dried it out --- All good
All it was was the 100% humidity and a 'little' wet coast of Canazuelan rain...
What's with the water coming out of the rim?
Giant has holes in outer rim that water can get in and out of
@@islandaerial3414 I'm not sure why Giant does it but, it's the same distance apart from the valve stem in opposite directions. I'm not sure if has something do with how the rim is made or a actual design feature
The IP rating is equivalent to a paper bag
Lol the timing of this video is uncanny. Went for a quick ride around my looking area today. Came to what is usually a little stream, not this week at least a foot and a half deep. Turned around and went another way
At 6:33 who does he recommend?thanks
Steve is recommending the Hydraulic Press Channel who has done a video of crushing all sorts of Lithium Ion batteries!
Funny that, I've got a pile of dead Giant motors here which have suffered from water ingress. Giant need to sort their warranty claims out if they want people to buy their bikes.
2 days to get my motor replaced. No problems with warranty at all
They didn't even have stock that could be bought, let alone replaced under warranty, as it should have been. My biggest gripe with Giant is that they refuse to sell parts, and the same motor from Yamaha is £1000 cheaper for the same thing, but can't be used because Giant changed the firmware so you couldn't save yourself their outrageous premium. Suffice to say, I'll NEVER buy another Giant product, and I recommend everyone else not to. It's my way of making Giant pay for their shoddy treatment of myself and many others who I know have been done over by them.
Just have a search in the Giant section of the forums, problems with them are legion.
I've heard rumors that the next new batteries are going to be sodium ion. More power, better in cold and half the cost to make.
Sodium iron has a lower energy density, at the moment comparable with LFP 10 years ago. It will be cheaper, but at least for the next years it will be more a thing for stationary storage.
The prices they charge for E Bike batteries however have little to do with cell prices, but are more a rip off
Sadly, anything to do with e-bikes is a rip off - with over producing and more competition some of the greedier big brands are going to hit trouble - fair prices for a fair product 🙄
the problems with giant e bikes was never about the battery more the connections and a million miles of wires that came with them!
They have improved the wiring situation over the last couple of years considerably! Not quite as well as other brands but still a huge improvement 🤘
Emmm no its the exact same grad of cells as used in powertool batteries FACT!
I have done it with my shimano ep8 and nothing happened
FYI don't do this. Levo motors for SURE, are not sealed well. There is an open area that allows water to seep in and get into the bearings and clutch. It might survive for a little while, but you are reducing the lifespan.
I did not need to submerge my shimano ep8 motor to fail after 7808 km. Shimano does not repair it, need to buy a new one. LBS charges 1300 euros.
7:47 that's an INCREDIBLE waste of space inside of that battery , i never thought its that way ... that's so lame technology , it should be a SINGLE giant battery , what's wrong with this world , why is not made properly ?
The design is to separate the cells in case of a fire to hopefully prevent a chain reaction, battery fires are difficult to extinguish and can burn for days otherwise🧯
How in the world did you get water inside the rim??!! 3:38 time stamp
Most rims aren't waterproof because of the amount of holes needed for the spokes, but they will come with drain holes which is what was filmed! Check your wheel rim and you will probably find a drain hole 🤘
Wow! Never considered that. Thanks!
I always thought any water would go into eyelet and wouldn’t have anywhere to go due to air pressures and any sealing used or would just be confined to the hole and work out the way it went in. Something learned!
what about sea water is the same
If you have sea water once in the bike (bearings, rims, or even electronics) it's really bad and the components start to corrode quite fast. You would have to flush all that salt out as fast as possible
Need hemp batteries
Not unless it’s a Specialized 😂
My mate drove a cube with bosch motor through water a month ago, 15 minutes later the bike went dead....
How deep was it, ie did the motor get essentially pressure washed (hard splash) or submerged?
@@vashon100 tbh submerged for a second. The others were smart and used the bridge. Other bikes prob might have died as well otherwise.
My trance e was a bag of sheeeeite. Spent most of its time broken from a few puddles and rain. No thanks. Never again
Just Riding Along and my bike stopped working ....
Yes, these components are great in dealing with moisture and even lots of water as shown here. The troublesome parts are much smaller and are very exposed ones, namely the displays and remote switches (or combined variants). These plastic devices are sealed, too, of course, but they tend to fail much more often than batteries let alone drive units. 🔍
No way ….I dont even clean mine with water
You've significantly reduced the life of that motor. Motors aren't waterproof. They're rated as splash proof only. Avoid getting them wet at all costs as water damage isn't covered under warranty and it's always a VERY expensive bill. Most ebike batteries are very resistant to water, getting them wet isn't a big deal.
Ah the ad channel is still going then
If it was not 100% waterproof it would be a stupid product.
Ok, I have to be that guy now:
You are slightly contaminating a river for no reason whatsoever with that test and it is 100% unnecessary!
Don't do it!
*Don't* submerge a Lithium-Ion battery in water!
If you are really unlucky it explodes like a grenade, you catch fire that can't be extiggust with water (which is all you have there in the first place).
Please do better in the future. Without an E-Bike you would not be there in that river in the first place, but now you are like many other so you have a responsibility to be even more careful and respectful.
Cheers.
e-crap