DIY Perks used a plaster of paris / plasticizer mix to fill their 3d printed walls if i remember, I would be interested to see your level of testing done on that to see how it compares as I have a good 3d printer but not a workshop. Name of the video in question was: Building exceptional speakers using modern techniques.
Great video! My initial thought around this mainly involved the density differences of the MDF/ply of the wood cabinet vs the 3D printes cabinet, as I've done some testing in the past, and the thinner the walls are made, the more likely the cabinet is to resonate. That said, using 7 layer walls along with 50% infill is pretty solid, so I imagine that the overall density isnt too different.
DIY perks has made a plastic enclosure and he filled it with with plaster of paris mixed with pla glue can you try it it's cheaper and it has betetr results
Is the STL file included with the purchasable plans from your website? It would be easier for me to print than to build. Also, do your plans include the crossover components and build?
Maybe you can try to fill the 3D printed form of the enclosure with different materials like resin, damping wool or any kind of gelatin (like these ballistic test stuff). Also a change on the internal walls like "fussy skin" or non parallel walls could have an effect.
Nice video dude. I wasn't expecting much but your attention to detail was great. It matches what I have seen with my 3D Printed Speaker DRIVERS. The 3D printed cabinet doesn't seem to make a performance negative or positive if the walls have shape to them instead of flat surfaces. Keep up the great work - Paul (Polymate3D)
I'm printing a lot of speakers recently, I use PETG with 15% infill, the wall thickness is 4mm on average. I also 3d print the speaker mount using an SLA machine. Although they resonate like a pitchfork and the bass is as soggy as the pepe of a middle aged man, the sound is somehow accurate for the cab design. In this way, I was able to trial multiple designs cheaply. As soon as you are ready for the final product, switch to polycarbonate and crank the infill to 100%.
Funny story I actually had that in the first time. But then I edited it out. One 3-D printed speaker takes a little over kilogram of filament so about $30. I would say it’s pretty equivalent if you were to make it out of MDF, at least in the way that I made it.
Cool topic. You're comparing the exact same design one-to-another but with different materials, that's apples-to-apples. The Bass Decay graph told the story for me. I would have thought there would have been more differences... or the PLA version would be resonate more. It actually looks to perform well enough. I wonder what an MDF enclosure would behave like. What did you glue them together with? I picture PLA being tough to glue to. This was informative, I love these types of videos!!! Thank you! I hope you bust through 100k soon, your videos deserve it!
Thank you Zarbo! I wa actually surprised it wasn't worse either. I think part of it is just the design as well as how much infill I used. I used a lot of infll. Probably more than most. I do wonder if some treatment inside the cabinet would help reduce that resonance as well.
I didn't see where you mentioned the material you were printing with. As you mentioned wall thickness and infill amount will change the way the enclosure interacts with the drivers. However, there are also different types of infill that may be better suited than what you used (or worse). Then there is the option of multi-material printing. For example, printing with a soft rubber like tpu at certain places to help dampen the cabinet and/or printing the rest of the speaker cabinet out of a carbon fiber or glass filled nylon would have a significant effect.
ill love to see a test using pvc panels! i did a technic speaker box restoration. and did sound amazing! i use a 3/4" panel .90 density. i know pvc panels are costly in USA, but here is way cheaper than wood!
Thanks for this test. I used some 3D printed boxes for atmos surround speakers and they worked great. They were crossed well above 250hz or something like that and worked well. I wonder if you experimented with filling the 3D printed "infill" with materials like sand or epoxy and then gluing them together to get more mass than the wood equivalent.
Hi! Very interesting video! Can you use 100% infill to reduce the resonances? Or it's just the peculiarity of the plastic? And what about with foam? Did you repeated the decay test using damping foam? Are there less differences now? Thanks you very much
I always like to cast anything needed to be more solid. Use gyroid infill as low as possible to hold some bridging and so that the top layers will easily cover infill. cast the prints inside with your favourite 2 component casting stuff. epox or pu ect. You get a solid form even with printing issues. Just look out for holes for consistency use atleast 2 perimeters. Also becarefull not to distort the form if your 2 componen casting will cause alot of heat.
Infill part of 3D printed enclosure is mostly air so there could be some additional resonance... Better apples to apples comparison would be with solid infill.
So did the driver issue ever get resolved? Also how would a regular diy guy who doesn't have testing equipment know if his build of this speaker was the bad driver or the good one as in the original build?
Without testing equipment it would be hard. However if I were ordering from Parts express, I would contact them to see if they checked their inventory.
3d print enthusiasm. :D might be a lot to consider, like material, also with shape and form (as no boundaries about bending) and also might be to do different approach, like instead of 'infill', also can make a solid whole (like truss structure with more rigid) (also you can specific print to each driver for specific/different resonance). also some inside primer might help. a lot to experiment. just make it fun. :D have a good day. :)
Why not 3D print a shell and fill it with epoxy mixed with sand? Edit: I just found a gallon (½ gallon resin + ½ gallon hardener) of table top epoxy for $64.50. Price of sand is negligible. You would have to modify the file to provide tongue and groove between the sections, a sprue, and air vents. Pre-gluing the sections would probably be a good idea. You might have to experiment to keep the sand from settling, or get the ratio right to keep it in suspension. It would be a mess to have to do it in layers.
There are additives sandlike but that are made for casting and slowing down the heat problem and adding more fill. I ques they are sand like. I´ve used pu stuff like this. The only thing you need to remember when castin 2 component stuff is allthough the componen a or b may look like clear , it doesnt mean you don´t need to shake both of the comonents thoroughly before mixing together..... believe me. It´s fun to watch something drip and dry for months when failing to pre mix every component before mixing together.
@@janneliiti8898 What is pu? Polyurethane? I was thinking about sand because it's inexpensive and dense. Iron filings or lead shot would be better. Now I wonder if you can 3D print wax to make molds to cast lead or bronze enclosures. Of course the cost would go up.
I'm actually kind of surprised you went with 50% infill instead of solid fill. I think solid would have been better to compare against wood and other materials because wood is more solid than 50%.
Honestly, 50% infill is typically much higher than what most people would use. 100% infill is really unrealistic. The print time would be days and the filament cost would shoot the project out of most people’s range. Keep in mind that the thickness of the material is half inch. Most people at 3-D print it’s going to be millimeters. In that case, 100% infill is more realistic. But I went ahead and did seven top and bottom layers, which would be more equivalent to 100% infill for thinner walls. obviously it would be kind of cool to see people test, other wall count and infills. They would definitely react differently.
@@Toididk, it transfers sound very well such that in a concrete slab house you can hear people walking on the hard lino up the other end of the house or all the details of what's deposited in the toilet when your head is near a hard surface :))
DIY Perks used a plaster of paris / plasticizer mix to fill their 3d printed walls if i remember, I would be interested to see your level of testing done on that to see how it compares as I have a good 3d printer but not a workshop. Name of the video in question was: Building exceptional speakers using modern techniques.
Correction, he used plaster of paris and pva glue for the filler
I’m literally doing a project for my university involving 3d printing high quality speakers it’s crazy timing that you dropped this
That’s awesome! Good luck with your project
Next time you do this, swap out the drivers and crossover so that the only variable is the enclosure.
That was the original plan. I went over in our last sound advice why I ended up abandoning that.
Great video! My initial thought around this mainly involved the density differences of the MDF/ply of the wood cabinet vs the 3D printes cabinet, as I've done some testing in the past, and the thinner the walls are made, the more likely the cabinet is to resonate. That said, using 7 layer walls along with 50% infill is pretty solid, so I imagine that the overall density isnt too different.
Yeah, I wanted to give it its best chance at successful.
DIY perks has made a plastic enclosure and he filled it with with plaster of paris mixed with pla glue can you try it it's cheaper and it has betetr results
Is the STL file included with the purchasable plans from your website? It would be easier for me to print than to build. Also, do your plans include the crossover components and build?
Maybe you can try to fill the 3D printed form of the enclosure with different materials like resin, damping wool or any kind of gelatin (like these ballistic test stuff). Also a change on the internal walls like "fussy skin" or non parallel walls could have an effect.
Great idea
Nice video dude. I wasn't expecting much but your attention to detail was great. It matches what I have seen with my 3D Printed Speaker DRIVERS. The 3D printed cabinet doesn't seem to make a performance negative or positive if the walls have shape to them instead of flat surfaces.
Keep up the great work - Paul (Polymate3D)
I'm printing a lot of speakers recently, I use PETG with 15% infill, the wall thickness is 4mm on average. I also 3d print the speaker mount using an SLA machine. Although they resonate like a pitchfork and the bass is as soggy as the pepe of a middle aged man, the sound is somehow accurate for the cab design. In this way, I was able to trial multiple designs cheaply. As soon as you are ready for the final product, switch to polycarbonate and crank the infill to 100%.
Nice video! Are the 3d files already out? I don't see them in the webshop :)
I wonder about material cost.
Funny story I actually had that in the first time. But then I edited it out. One 3-D printed speaker takes a little over kilogram of filament so about $30. I would say it’s pretty equivalent if you were to make it out of MDF, at least in the way that I made it.
@@Toid I pay like 9 euros for a kg of petg so it could be way cheaper!
Just curious what a 3D rear & front baffle would do with wood for the rest 🤔? Just a small idea 💡🤷
That’s an interesting idea. I have never even considered that.
Cool topic. You're comparing the exact same design one-to-another but with different materials, that's apples-to-apples. The Bass Decay graph told the story for me. I would have thought there would have been more differences... or the PLA version would be resonate more. It actually looks to perform well enough. I wonder what an MDF enclosure would behave like. What did you glue them together with? I picture PLA being tough to glue to.
This was informative, I love these types of videos!!! Thank you! I hope you bust through 100k soon, your videos deserve it!
Thank you Zarbo! I wa actually surprised it wasn't worse either. I think part of it is just the design as well as how much infill I used. I used a lot of infll. Probably more than most. I do wonder if some treatment inside the cabinet would help reduce that resonance as well.
Hi, great video 👍Do you have any 3D files to download for the Creality K1 yet?
infill patterns selected would make a significant difference probably.
I didn't see where you mentioned the material you were printing with. As you mentioned wall thickness and infill amount will change the way the enclosure interacts with the drivers. However, there are also different types of infill that may be better suited than what you used (or worse). Then there is the option of multi-material printing. For example, printing with a soft rubber like tpu at certain places to help dampen the cabinet and/or printing the rest of the speaker cabinet out of a carbon fiber or glass filled nylon would have a significant effect.
ill love to see a test using pvc panels! i did a technic speaker box restoration. and did sound amazing! i use a 3/4" panel .90 density. i know pvc panels are costly in USA, but here is way cheaper than wood!
Thanks for this test. I used some 3D printed boxes for atmos surround speakers and they worked great. They were crossed well above 250hz or something like that and worked well. I wonder if you experimented with filling the 3D printed "infill" with materials like sand or epoxy and then gluing them together to get more mass than the wood equivalent.
Hexibase 3D prints some ridiculously amazing enclosures.
Hi! Very interesting video! Can you use 100% infill to reduce the resonances? Or it's just the peculiarity of the plastic?
And what about with foam? Did you repeated the decay test using damping foam? Are there less differences now?
Thanks you very much
I always like to cast anything needed to be more solid. Use gyroid infill as low as possible to hold some bridging and so that the top layers will easily cover infill. cast the prints inside with your favourite 2 component casting stuff. epox or pu ect. You get a solid form even with printing issues. Just look out for holes for consistency use atleast 2 perimeters. Also becarefull not to distort the form if your 2 componen casting will cause alot of heat.
Not related, but have you checked out the Tekton lore signature? I know this is mostly a DIY channel, this seems like a really good value proposition.
Infill part of 3D printed enclosure is mostly air so there could be some additional resonance...
Better apples to apples comparison would be with solid infill.
Was your fridge on when you took the bass decay measurements?
Getting a 60cycle hum?
Just a thought.
Great point and question. It wasn’t. I actually took the measurements multiple times back to back just to make sure of the validity.
@@Toid cool cause I’ve done the same exact measurement and I always make sure what is on in the house but especially the fridge and washer dryer etc.
@@Nightjar726 that’s a great point! Thank you for bringing it up
Cool video! I think a more apples-to-apples comparison would involve 100% infill.
So did the driver issue ever get resolved? Also how would a regular diy guy who doesn't have testing equipment know if his build of this speaker was the bad driver or the good one as in the original build?
Without testing equipment it would be hard. However if I were ordering from Parts express, I would contact them to see if they checked their inventory.
Like other may have said. Different plastics also have different resonance frequency. So this it really hard to compare.
Great point!
wouldn't testing the cab for resonance also be part of the question?
That’s what the bass decay was for.
Are you going to release the 3D model from this? How big is the enclosure? I'm wondering if it'll print in one piece on the K1 Max.
I believe it can print one piece on the k1 max. I’m just making some minor adjustments to the final design. Should be ready in the next week.
or test the same drivers in different enclosures
links to the speaker parts bring up an error,
Science!
3d print enthusiasm. :D
might be a lot to consider, like material, also with shape and form (as no boundaries about bending) and also might be to do different approach, like instead of 'infill', also can make a solid whole (like truss structure with more rigid) (also you can specific print to each driver for specific/different resonance). also some inside primer might help.
a lot to experiment. just make it fun. :D
have a good day. :)
Why not 3D print a shell and fill it with epoxy mixed with sand?
Edit: I just found a gallon (½ gallon resin + ½ gallon hardener) of table top epoxy for $64.50. Price of sand is negligible. You would have to modify the file to provide tongue and groove between the sections, a sprue, and air vents. Pre-gluing the sections would probably be a good idea. You might have to experiment to keep the sand from settling, or get the ratio right to keep it in suspension. It would be a mess to have to do it in layers.
There are additives sandlike but that are made for casting and slowing down the heat problem and adding more fill. I ques they are sand like. I´ve used pu stuff like this. The only thing you need to remember when castin 2 component stuff is allthough the componen a or b may look like clear , it doesnt mean you don´t need to shake both of the comonents thoroughly before mixing together..... believe me. It´s fun to watch something drip and dry for months when failing to pre mix every component before mixing together.
@@janneliiti8898 What is pu? Polyurethane?
I was thinking about sand because it's inexpensive and dense. Iron filings or lead shot would be better. Now I wonder if you can 3D print wax to make molds to cast lead or bronze enclosures. Of course the cost would go up.
Elliot Designs was working on something similar but using a special concrete mix.
Yeah ithink it was PolyUrethane. It goes into yellow when it hardens. Like the phoam but really hard and solid.@@BlankBrain
The wood enclosure is on point, but I wouldn't have chosen red for the 3d printed enclosure.
My wife loves the red 😁
Print one in blue as well and then get her to choose. Never know, she might pick the blue pill!
@@RennieAsh Haha! Nice!
I'm actually kind of surprised you went with 50% infill instead of solid fill. I think solid would have been better to compare against wood and other materials because wood is more solid than 50%.
Honestly, 50% infill is typically much higher than what most people would use. 100% infill is really unrealistic. The print time would be days and the filament cost would shoot the project out of most people’s range. Keep in mind that the thickness of the material is half inch. Most people at 3-D print it’s going to be millimeters. In that case, 100% infill is more realistic. But I went ahead and did seven top and bottom layers, which would be more equivalent to 100% infill for thinner walls. obviously it would be kind of cool to see people test, other wall count and infills. They would definitely react differently.
This is why I started with 500lbs of concrete in my Dirt to Demos build.
500lbs! That shouldn't resonate :)
@@Toid 500lbs of concrete..9 sheets of Birch..ten 2x4's.. 50 pounds of spray foam and 30ft of 2" angle iron...and I'm still not done. Lol
@@Toididk, it transfers sound very well such that in a concrete slab house you can hear people walking on the hard lino up the other end of the house or all the details of what's deposited in the toilet when your head is near a hard surface :))
Wood is undefeated 😊
👍
u really waste lifetime