It definitely makes sense that that is the original Waterfowl dance considering that she hops on one leg which is a reference to Cranes, which are used a lot in Japanese Folklore
It reminds me of the Flowing Curved Sword, Where you literally dance in the same way used by Malenia's old master who taught her swordsmanship. That one seems much more like it but perfected to a better degree. Maybe they changed it because it was too similar to the Malenia's blade attack?
I think you're right on the money with guessing this was the actual waterfowl dance, contrary to the move she does in the full game this one actually looks like she is dancing.
something else that's quite interesting is that we probably would have no way of knowing it would be called the waterfowl dance without looking at the game files, as her weapon doesn't perform the original waterfowl dance or even mention it
I would have quite liked it if she kept the original Waterfowl Dance for phase 1 only. It seems much more controlled and floaty, presumably like the movements of her master, the Blue Dancer/blind swordsman. Phase 2 reveal of Malenia's Blade would slap.
True, but at the same time the visuals of her doing it while transformed are great. It's a literal potential goddess with her full (for now) power dancing in your face while trying to hack you to pieces. Looks awesome
@@Hyperversum3 yeah thats what he said. it would have been better overall if she only pulled out the current waterfowl in her phase 2. shes got actual wings at that point too so itd just fit better. but nope we got hovering malenia
she actually cancels her attack animation to block player attacks, WITH A KATANA. I'd just have a bold claim that she is indeed unused boss from sekiro.
She clearly is. I mean all those flurries are meant to be blocked with the umbrella. Her regen ability was probably related to perfect parrying her constantly even without the debuff given by kuro's charm. It would have been a pretty fair fight for that game, unlike in Elden Ring. Even the way she recovers poise is more similar to Sekiro's posture system than anything. She completely breaks the mechanics of the game because she's not built for it...
To be honest i had my theory that malenia is just emma the gentle blade from sekiro i mean isshin got another fight at the end of game and malenia has isshin one mind just tuned up and malenia watefowl dance well in this version is more like a gentle furry of slashes
Yeah, this is definitely the original waterfowl dance. She hops around on one leg like a crane during the move. Cranes are waterfowl. Not sure why this was cut.
THIS is the Malenia I fought. I didn't have internet when I bought Elden Ring and played through the game on 1.00. I used my mimic but even still it was incredibly hard for me. Oh and when he says some items are in different places, it's literally like 80% of main weapons, Talismans, etc. They're in different places or just not there at all. And EVERY merchant has a different inventory, but it's another merchants inventory. So you can ger all the same items, just from different merchants. Many good magic staffs and seals are missing completely. If you don't pick the Samurai class you completely miss the Unchigatana, as it's not in its normal spot in Limgrave. I've yet to find it anywhere else. 1.00 is way different
@@kgMeruem She Blocks way more often. If she is not in an attack animation she will block the attack, and she is way more aggrssive as well compared to the base game.
That's absolutely the original Waterfowl Dance. It even has a tempo, like real dancing does. Shame it's not in the current version. It'd be nice to see her mix it in to her kit.
I've seen a lot of folks saying that her current version should be toned down, but (based on how the fight looks in the video) maybe she hasn't been nerfed because it's already the toned down version of the fight lol
She is still a ridiculously unfair and unfun fight. Despite how often Miyazaki schpiels about "earning the win" and thats why it's so fun, surviving this fight is almost entirely luck based. It's not even designed for Elden Ring.
@@uegeywcewhdvsdge318 she cancels hitstun and fails to follow the patterns of the game’s stance break mechanics. She is difficult, not fair in any capacity. And this is coming from a guy who beat her RL1 with no bleed or frostbite. Yeah, she’s possible, but she by no means is fair.
@@Rexis102 her cancels are not problematic unless you are r1 spamming and playing like a moron. The hyperarmor is simply stronger than the stagger which you circumvent by simply landing the finishing blow when shes out of s. She can be bullied by a skilled player as only some attacks give hyperarmor so you just have to accept this one single change instead of bitching that it doesent work the way you want it to. Malenia isnt the first boss to not follow the supposed "boss rules" and i didnt see anyone talk bout demon of hatred. Also your supoosed rl1 achievement means nothing to someone who has experimented on malenia for hours and knows pretty much everything shes capable of and what you can do to gain an advantage. Also not using bleed or frost isnt anything to brag about lol
Malenia heard her theme play in the background and started busting a move to it, absolutely destroying you with her lethal whip-&-nae-nae technique. Can you blame her?
You missed the most important part… her hyper armor was over by the time she swung as opposed to now where it applies to the whole combo sometimes. You were consistently interrupting with a katana and instead of countering with a quick hyper armor slash her block combo actually gives you a chance to dodge if youre swinging something bigger. Yeah this Waterfowl is cooler tbh
Lol that's horrifying two flurry attacks together ....they needed us to suffer. Her second phase 8 clone combo,scarlet aeonia with that flurry combo and waterfowl will be a fking nightmare to dodge. Thanks Miyazaki.
The old waterfowl dance looks janky but balanced. I mean look at the timing of each flurry, that's a roll right there, and the attack doesn't persist so long you have to time perfectly like with the current version. Current waterfowl/melenia's blade looks more fluid sure but I just think the hurtbox lingers too long for it to be fair.
I much prefer her toned down water fowl attack. It speaks of a skilled warrior that is uses less energy per strike, rather than levitating in the air and frantically swinging in desperation to kill her opponent.
yeah for this old waterfowl, it seems like the wind-up is slow enough that u can just run away and avoid the attack entirely even from close range. but more importantly, it just looks very cool and really feels like a dance
Oh yes we finally be able to see the complete spiral cloud passage of Lady Tomoe. Notice her jumping like dance? That looks exacly like the okami warrior.
The blocking makes her feel much more like an expert swordsman, and I like the other version of the Waterfowl Dance. I can understand why they were removed, but it'd be nice to see them re-added for NG+
An actual Waterfowl dance description says "Perform a series of one-footed leaps in the manner of a waterfowl to unleash a swift yet graceful slashing combo" and it's really more suitable for v. 1.0 dance, than for actual
Might sound like a masochist but I would want both waterfowl and Malenia's Blade as Waterfowl is a beautiful move and Malenia's Blade is extremely fun to dodge(if you can learn how)
Seems like to dodge it, you either have to run away or dodge behind her at the beginning, kind of like the original waterfowl, but your dodge has to be a bit earlier
i'm still not entirely convinced you can dodge it at all if she does it while you're committed to a not-so-fast animation after what seemed like a perfectly viable punish window. i played it with weapons whose recovery times were longer than her stagger animation and i swear to god it's not possible to avoid some damage from the first flurry under those circumstances
Malenia’s Phase 1 would’ve been an absolute banger if her old Waterfowl was a normal “super” move, but a little faster, but once you break the 50% threshold, she starts the Waterfowl we know, and does it only once in Phase 1. Although, I would like it if the old Waterfowl didn’t have the secondary slicing effects, it doesn’t feel like it should. It’d look like this: Phase 1: 100%, normal moveset 75%, can use old Waterfowl as a powerful combo 50%, uses new Waterfowl ONCE. 25%, uses old Waterfowl more frequently.
@@johnnyd.1004 I think if you keep phase 2 as is with the phase 1 outlined above, her added aggression in phase 2 should still make it a nail biter. Just like normal, the key to success will be a good first phase and not getting caught by her Waterfowl or doppelganger attacks in phase 2. I don't think we need to reinvent the wheel here. It'd still be plenty challenging.
You mean to tell me the original Waterfowl is something you can not only run from, but also doesn't have the insane tracking of the current one. Even more reason to not regret cheesing her.
Really disappointing that we didn't get this version. Could definitely do without both the block and the self healing, one is enough. But the more aggressive AI in phase 1 and the true waterfowl dance that actually looks consistently avoidable means we missed out big time.
Honestly, I'd prefer the OG version of Waterfowl Dance displayed here to the one in game. It feels a lot more fair compared to what we got now and it actually feels like something a proper FromSouls boss would use. Kinda brings me back to DS1 Sanctuary Guardian a bit. It is aggressive and it will probably kill you in a corner, but if you actually know your spacing and keep an awareness of the map you can avoid that situation. This feels fair compared to the in game one which is basically an "I win" button for her unless you learn how to dodge it perfectly everytime and at every distance.
It really isn't that difficult if you approach that move like you're studying it, you don't even have to dodge perfectly because with enough defense or health you'll survive the first flurry, which is the worst, the other flurries are easy
Cool opinion… but kinda unrelated. The change here is of name only. She was mean to have 2 very powerful attacks! And the new one might give you even less time to react compared to the in-game version that has her a full second on air to tell you “I’m going to use a combo!”. So by your implied hatred of the combo, this might make the fight worse for you since it’s current Malenia+ new combo. Not replaced combo Malenia.
@@josetomascamposrobledano4618 What I mean is that if she just had the beta Waterfowl Dance displayed in the video I feel like that might be a bit more enjoyable. It's actually more reminiscent of a dance than the heat seaking missile that we know of in the actual game. It looks like it could be reliably dodged with good spacing and by being a larger distance away from her whereas the other one can catch you from the other side of the field. The wind up may be a little bit faster than the wind up on in game Waterfowl Dance, but since it covers a lot (and I do mean A LOT) less ground, as long as you stay a certain distance away from her during the attack and don't get too greedy you can survive without a scratch. The reason why I compare this beta version of Waterfowl Dance to something a boss like the Sanctuary Guardian from DS1 might have is because they're both trying to do the same thing which is push you backwards to corner you. In the case of both the standard string of Sanctuary Guardian and beta Waterfowl Dance, if you're in a corner when it happens it's pretty much guaranteed to either kill you or do massive damage, but if you keep a good awareness of your positioning you can avoid being cornered. In general, if they completely swapped out the in game version of Waterfowl Dance with the beta version I feel like she'd be a bit more fair than she is in game.
That makes so much sense! That move looks like an actual dance. Whereas the current one was likely Phase 2 exclusive. She actually Seems to fly during the current version which fits Phase 2 Better since it has wings
Dude, if she had block on top of that, would’ve taken me a lot longer. I tried like 1000 times and buffed 30 levels pre Malenia and post. Took 40 hrs of gameplay buffing+trying for this girl alone.
@@benbeentjes7088 I used rivers of blood and summoned tiche for a health drop effect. Made a guide here th-cam.com/video/7xG_6YrvAjI/w-d-xo.html basically you really need to dodge waterfowl. If you get that, you got her.
O I already got her, I used Moonveil main hand and Cold Uchigatana offhand, no summons, took me 6 hours at level 143. The waterfowl was annoying but once I figured out how to dodge that it wasn't too bad most of the time, unless I was in the middle of an attack and she used it close to me then she lands some hits with it. What caught me most is that triple flurry move. You gotta quickly roll into her and it took quite a long time for me to make a habit out of that. All in all I think this is the most difficult boss I ever faced, she seems so unfair at times
I might have oveleveled for her then. xd Took me 3 attempts with powerstanced staff of loss and lusat's, ranni's dark moon, terra magica, night comet, 80 int and Tiche. Lvl 170 and I prolly coulve blasted her ass with Comet Azur in her Aeonia recovery animation. Oh well, still felt like I cheesed her when every ping took 1.6k hp off of her.
This version of Malenia seems harder, but also better? Apart from the cut waterfowl dance being a gorgeously animated move, to me something always felt a little bit off about the fase 1 Malenia that we got. Now I'm imagining that From made a really good bossfight that was just flat out too hard, and had to make it a little bit worse to make it easier because of time constraints or something. Would be kind of sad (but also understandable).
Lol People think I'm Psychotic when I say I enjoy fight Malenia. To me she's what I wanted Lady Maria and Sir Alonne to be. Someone with such a degree of skill that is more of a dance than a fight for those that are deeply skilled.
Considering how she made ppl suffer with hours of agonizing pain, it was amazing to be able to beat her. Turns out, she was nerfed. Even now, if she executes water fowl dance at a close distance, it's a guaranteed death and even now beating her is never assured.
Fromsoft definitely rushed a lot of Elden Ring due to time constraints and COVID. The game wouldve been likely better if the pandemic didnt happen OR Bandai was more concerned with good products rather than shareholder profit.
Waterfowl either needs reduced tracking or a complete overhaul. The original is definitely more fair but sacrifices style for balance. The one we got is too over the top.
3:58 is a classic FromSoft camera bit. An important moment where you're trying to determine what attack boss is going to use and all you see is your ass covering the entire screen xD
That is 100% the Waterfowl Dance. That is so cool and sad at the same time (that the Waterfowl Dance was removed). Thank you for the effort and information you put in the video
So, since this alpha version combo is the supposed original waterfowl dance, the name makes sense, as she moves in a rhythmic fashion, as if she's dancing, rather than the combo looking like a flurry of attacks like the current waterfowl combo
Would've been cool if they keep and let her use the original waterfowl's dance in her human form and the full-game flurry attack when she reached Godhood as a way to show how the Malenia Goddess of Rot is much more powerful than Malenia Blade of Miquella
Interestingly, there is a link between the animation of the “secret” waterfowl dance, and the heavy attack of the flowing curved sword. Each of them attack in the same manner, but the specific link is the position of the sword between and after the flurries. For Melania’s own rush, it is a modification of the technique, where instead of bringing the sword upward to swing, the sword is put below her and she rushes forward above it, rather than focusing on keeping the blade above her head. I also believe the dance is named after the one-legged hopping motion that we see her make. In my personal opinion, I believe they removed that flurry for that specific reason: the waterfowl dance is named after the dance itself, and having her execute an extremely recognizable technique would be a little bit too on the nose.
Idk man I feel like “having the extremely recognizable move tied to a name that’s very clearly inspired off of it” seems like a good idea lore-wise. Makes sense in universe, considering names come after the creation of the thing.
@@ghostspud Exactly by that point you’d know her kit this would bring out the real Malenia. Hell I’d want a DS2 NG+ treatment where you face red phantoms. Or cut move sets deemed “too hard”. Lol
@@rgrywatchin that's just plain untrue. Malenia is so ridiculously hard with so little room for failure. That is objectively true. I can dodge 90% of her attacks, sure, but she can dodge 90% of mine. On top of that, her fucking healing is ridiculous. It is the worst mechanic I have seen in the game and that says a lot. Malenia was far and away some of the least fun I have ever had playing any game.
Actual 1.0 Malenia is different, something went wrong here. In 1.0, waterfowl tracking and distance is vastly improved in that the first flurry cannot be outrun like normal. 2nd flurry is still rollable, but the 3rd flurry will not fly over you like in this video. You cannot dodge all of waterfowl in 1.0 without bloodhounds step Also she has 1 line of additional kill dialogue; "Now do you understand? I am Malenia, blade of Miquella" 2nd phase dialogue is the same
Thank you for pointing this out! I will make a follow-up video showcasing these changes as well. Is it okay if I leave your username in the video, or should I blur it out?
@@kotn3l you dont have to credit me at all, theres some things im not super positive about. For example I think I was wrong to say the 1st flurry has improved tracking, I think it might just be the hitbox is like 2x as large. And maaaaybe the 3rd flurry is dodgable without BHS but it seems like no matter which direction I move, she is glued onto you.
@@andrewh158true. I'm new and currently fighting her on Elden ring 1.00, I'm stuck at phase 1 now. Every video says like no need to dodge roll, just sprint, light load, bla2, and none works.😢
Ok seriously, that original Waterfowl Dance looks absolutely beauitful. A very deadly and elegant technique, fitting perfectly for her way of fighting!
for the first few days of playing, i had bought a disc copy and so, that came with the 1.0 files. I hadnt updated the game until a few days later. And I remember only doing so because I genuinely could not complete a specific area. I think it was the one with the Regal Ancestor Spirit. One of the flaming braziers or something was completely missing, and this issue was only fixed when I updated the game. But even so, i remember updating it, and noticing the UI was completely different. Also my friend, had already updated his game, so he had gotten the Uchigatana in a dungeon, and I went to that same spot, and it wasnt there for me until I updated it. Its like a totally different game at launch.
The brazier is accessible from the original part Siofra River you get to from the well, through the hidden teleporter to the Dragonkin Soldier fight. The pillar is just randomly in the back of its arena lol. (credit to BertoPlease for showing off 1.00)
This is the version of Malenia that I personally played against, my wifi was out for months but I had the disc of Elden Ring. Not to mention there was many items in wrong locations or simply not existing, and there was also pretty terrible balancing on everything, the Halo Scythe was probably the strongest weapon in the game believe it or not, I mowed through nearly every boss using it.
- Has 2 ultimate moves - Can use them throughout the fight whenever he wants, can spam them in a row - Blocks almost every second attack I have one question for the people who allowed this to be released - were they on drugs? What went through the minds of game designers when they said, "Yeah, it's okay, good boss." Did they test it at all?
It's actually easy to read, doesn't fuck with the camera, and is an actual dance. Course it looks a tad funny and a bit slower, but I still wish it was in the game, perhaps with some tweaking. It's like, the one we got is a retreat at all cost, one hit and your dead (despite being a flurry), type move, and this is a daunting pursuer you must keep pace with or counter, type move.
I always thought the 1.0 UI looked quite jarring in comparison to the game's aesthetic and other UI elements. I'm glad they changed it for the release, looks much more stylized and doesn't stick out like a sore thumb.
They shouldn't have removed water fowl dance from her rot form, looks so nice with the butterflies and lights and would've given her other form a different feel.
@@kotn3l She says something like "Now you know... I am malenia blade of miquella". I think it actually makes more sense then the current version now because of that other line before the line we all know. I'm saying that because I finished the game in this version on ps4.
@@picolascage8329 Thank you for sharing this!! I actually did hear that dialogue when skimming through all the audio files, and always wondered where that would belong.
@@kotn3l She actually still has this dialogue in the JP version on current patch. The line is "知り得たか？ミケラの刃、マレニアを" which translates to "Now you know, I am Malenia..." but contextually in Japanese it's more like "Do you now understand how hopeless you are in the face of Malenia, Blade of Miquella?"
I see why they removed the true waterfowl dance though. It’s either insanely easy to dodge if you’re distanced or insanely hard if you stay in range which seems even more inescapable than the other flurry. That’s my 2 cents at least.
I have the ps4 1.00 ver and it took me a week and a half to beat her. Probably one of my favorite formsoft boss because the combat of the fight. Love the fact that people are finding ways to experience the true horror. Unlike the water down version there is now. Also take a look at ver 1.00 endgame godfrey the first elden lord. He is very different than current patch.
The orange sparks from her prosthetic, having a prosthetic, the fact she can block attacks, the flurry combos that look like they should be chain-deflected. Many have said it, but this is absolutely a boss at least inspired by Sekiro, if not cut from it.
It definitely makes sense that that is the original Waterfowl dance considering that she hops on one leg which is a reference to Cranes, which are used a lot in Japanese Folklore
Reminds me of the okami women dancing to flute melody in fountainhead palace , they hop around in a similar fashion
And it looks similar to the river curved sword atack wich is supposedly from her master
apparently she hops on one leg in the other too
@@lo5er935 oh I never noticed I'll have to check it out
It reminds me of the Flowing Curved Sword, Where you literally dance in the same way used by Malenia's old master who taught her swordsmanship. That one seems much more like it but perfected to a better degree.
Maybe they changed it because it was too similar to the Malenia's blade attack?
I think you're right on the money with guessing this was the actual waterfowl dance, contrary to the move she does in the full game this one actually looks like she is dancing.
something else that's quite interesting is that we probably would have no way of knowing it would be called the waterfowl dance without looking at the game files, as her weapon doesn't perform the original waterfowl dance or even mention it
@Cliff Jumper yes does (at least in the current version).
Always seemed sort of unfitting....
I mean it looks less like a dance but go off
She also stands on one leg, performing small jumps. And while not technically catergorised as waterfowl, that does remind me of Flamingos and Cranes.
I would have quite liked it if she kept the original Waterfowl Dance for phase 1 only. It seems much more controlled and floaty, presumably like the movements of her master, the Blue Dancer/blind swordsman. Phase 2 reveal of Malenia's Blade would slap.
I love this idea
True, but at the same time the visuals of her doing it while transformed are great.
It's a literal potential goddess with her full (for now) power dancing in your face while trying to hack you to pieces. Looks awesome
@@Hyperversum3 yeah thats what he said. it would have been better overall if she only pulled out the current waterfowl in her phase 2. shes got actual wings at that point too so itd just fit better. but nope we got hovering malenia
@@tyhjyys think he meant it the other way around, 1 leg boing for p2
@@boch2411yeah pt2 makes more sense
she actually cancels her attack animation to block player attacks, WITH A KATANA. I'd just have a bold claim that she is indeed unused boss from sekiro.
She clearly is. I mean all those flurries are meant to be blocked with the umbrella. Her regen ability was probably related to perfect parrying her constantly even without the debuff given by kuro's charm. It would have been a pretty fair fight for that game, unlike in Elden Ring. Even the way she recovers poise is more similar to Sekiro's posture system than anything. She completely breaks the mechanics of the game because she's not built for it...
Tomoe...
I mean she has the waterfowl dance which is basically an altered spiral cloud passage
To be honest i had my theory that malenia is just emma the gentle blade from sekiro i mean isshin got another fight at the end of game and malenia has isshin one mind just tuned up and malenia watefowl dance well in this version is more like a gentle furry of slashes
@@mothh7600 oh god I think you re right
She actually has a death dialog even if it doesn't show : we all hear it in our heads.
She just speaks it telepathically in this version.
Yeah, this is definitely the original waterfowl dance. She hops around on one leg like a crane during the move. Cranes are waterfowl. Not sure why this was cut.
because it looks goofy as shit
probably too oppressive, people complained a lot about the version we did get, this version looks even harder to deal with
Good catch lol
@Kiko Smore But it has a better indicator now to actually avoid it.
Very easy to avoid i think?
THIS is the Malenia I fought. I didn't have internet when I bought Elden Ring and played through the game on 1.00. I used my mimic but even still it was incredibly hard for me.
Oh and when he says some items are in different places, it's literally like 80% of main weapons, Talismans, etc. They're in different places or just not there at all. And EVERY merchant has a different inventory, but it's another merchants inventory. So you can ger all the same items, just from different merchants.
Many good magic staffs and seals are missing completely. If you don't pick the Samurai class you completely miss the Unchigatana, as it's not in its normal spot in Limgrave. I've yet to find it anywhere else.
1.00 is way different
1.0 is super different but so damn fun I loved it when I played it cause the game was actually difficult again.
Malenia is what Tomoe boss fight would've been if She was in Sekiro.
With lightning instead of Rot.
i would love to parry the shit out of that combo
No, in Sekiro she would be way too easy
@@FrancescoMrC i agree, flurry of attacks don't really work well for the enemies. Just look at the claw-wielding demon mini-boss
She'd a totally be fair in Sekiro.
@@bannedmann4469 fair yes, but also extremely easy
The blocking actually really enhances the feeling of this fight being a duel to me.
Yeah I honestly would have preferred to fight this version. A duel would've been so much more fun than the cheese fest we dealt with
And the block animation is amazing. It feels more aggressive and challenging. From Software is a studio from another planet.
GOD BLESS Miyazaki. 🇯🇵
I don't understand those comments, she actually block attacks even in the patched versions?
@@kgMeruem She Blocks way more often. If she is not in an attack animation she will block the attack, and she is way more aggrssive as well compared to the base game.
if they wanted to make her actually hard they wouldn’t put a summoning pool right by her door, kinda like placidusax
That's absolutely the original Waterfowl Dance. It even has a tempo, like real dancing does.
Shame it's not in the current version. It'd be nice to see her mix it in to her kit.
Waterfowl is already bullshit as is no need to add extra shit. Mix it in my ass.
I wish that they had kept in the Original Waterfowl Dance, it is a beautiful move.
I think that the old version whould have been even more anoying then the one we got tbh
@@speedb.bernard5404 Nah, it doesn't cover the whole field under 2 secs
Has a lot of travel distance sure, but it has a clear tell before its used
Remove the current version and give her the original dance. That would completely fix the fight.
@@EldenLord. and remove the goddamn healing. I want to know who's idea that was just so I could ask them what the fuck they were thinking AVGN style.
I've seen a lot of folks saying that her current version should be toned down, but (based on how the fight looks in the video) maybe she hasn't been nerfed because it's already the toned down version of the fight lol
She is still a ridiculously unfair and unfun fight. Despite how often Miyazaki schpiels about "earning the win" and thats why it's so fun, surviving this fight is almost entirely luck based. It's not even designed for Elden Ring.
@@ghostspud its not even close to a luck based fight. malenia has counters and consistent ways of dodging every one of her attacks
@@uegeywcewhdvsdge318 she cancels hitstun and fails to follow the patterns of the game’s stance break mechanics. She is difficult, not fair in any capacity. And this is coming from a guy who beat her RL1 with no bleed or frostbite. Yeah, she’s possible, but she by no means is fair.
@@ghostspud Stop talking victim mentality shit.
@@Rexis102 her cancels are not problematic unless you are r1 spamming and playing like a moron. The hyperarmor is simply stronger than the stagger which you circumvent by simply landing the finishing blow when shes out of s. She can be bullied by a skilled player as only some attacks give hyperarmor so you just have to accept this one single change instead of bitching that it doesent work the way you want it to. Malenia isnt the first boss to not follow the supposed "boss rules" and i didnt see anyone talk bout demon of hatred. Also your supoosed rl1 achievement means nothing to someone who has experimented on malenia for hours and knows pretty much everything shes capable of and what you can do to gain an advantage. Also not using bleed or frost isnt anything to brag about lol
honestly I'd rather have her block my attacks more frequently than her healing off every attack
Yeah, or, at least, she only can heal with the grab attack
Agreed. It would be a nice callback to Sekiro as well as being a challenge.
@@jajasking9652 Or her Scarlet Aeonia nuke attack
Sneed
true adding more technical difficulty is better than stupid artificial bulllshit like the healing
Malenia heard her theme play in the background and started busting a move to it, absolutely destroying you with her lethal whip-&-nae-nae technique. Can you blame her?
Lol 😂😂
You missed the most important part… her hyper armor was over by the time she swung as opposed to now where it applies to the whole combo sometimes. You were consistently interrupting with a katana and instead of countering with a quick hyper armor slash her block combo actually gives you a chance to dodge if youre swinging something bigger. Yeah this Waterfowl is cooler tbh
Lol that's horrifying two flurry attacks together ....they needed us to suffer.
Her second phase 8 clone combo,scarlet aeonia with that flurry combo and waterfowl will be a fking nightmare to dodge.
Thanks Miyazaki.
The old waterfowl dance looks janky but balanced.
I mean look at the timing of each flurry, that's a roll right there, and the attack doesn't persist so long you have to time perfectly like with the current version.
Current waterfowl/melenia's blade looks more fluid sure but I just think the hurtbox lingers too long for it to be fair.
I much prefer her toned down water fowl attack. It speaks of a skilled warrior that is uses less energy per strike, rather than levitating in the air and frantically swinging in desperation to kill her opponent.
@@cameronmckillop6448 i dont feel that as desperation, more like "close all possible escape roots for enemy". And she still had current move, so
yeah for this old waterfowl, it seems like the wind-up is slow enough that u can just run away and avoid the attack entirely even from close range. but more importantly, it just looks very cool and really feels like a dance
definitely better then melania jumping in the air and tracking you from across the map
Oh yes we finally be able to see the complete spiral cloud passage of Lady Tomoe. Notice her jumping like dance? That looks exacly like the okami warrior.
version 1.0s fight feels so much more personal, and intense
I played in 1.0 version and yes, she does have dialogue after death, and it is a little different
what did she say?
What she says in the 1.0 version?
She says "Now you know... I am Malenia blade of miquella"
@@picolascage8329 It's "Now do you understand? I am Malenia blade of Miquella." Small difference from what you said.
@@tahahussein3254 oh thanks, I played this version a while ago and I didn't remember exactly what the phrase was
The blocking makes her feel much more like an expert swordsman, and I like the other version of the Waterfowl Dance. I can understand why they were removed, but it'd be nice to see them re-added for NG+
An actual Waterfowl dance description says "Perform a series of one-footed leaps in the manner of a waterfowl to unleash a swift yet graceful slashing combo" and it's really more suitable for v. 1.0 dance, than for actual
Might sound like a masochist but I would want both waterfowl and Malenia's Blade as Waterfowl is a beautiful move and Malenia's Blade is extremely fun to dodge(if you can learn how)
Yes!
Would be nice to have it added to NG+
Seems like to dodge it, you either have to run away or dodge behind her at the beginning, kind of like the original waterfowl, but your dodge has to be a bit earlier
i'm still not entirely convinced you can dodge it at all if she does it while you're committed to a not-so-fast animation after what seemed like a perfectly viable punish window. i played it with weapons whose recovery times were longer than her stagger animation and i swear to god it's not possible to avoid some damage from the first flurry under those circumstances
You could learn how, or you could just cheese it out with raptors, vow of the indomitable or BHS.
I totally didn't do that
Malenia’s Phase 1 would’ve been an absolute banger if her old Waterfowl was a normal “super” move, but a little faster, but once you break the 50% threshold, she starts the Waterfowl we know, and does it only once in Phase 1.
Although, I would like it if the old Waterfowl didn’t have the secondary slicing effects, it doesn’t feel like it should.
It’d look like this:
Phase 1:
100%, normal moveset
75%, can use old Waterfowl as a powerful combo
50%, uses new Waterfowl ONCE.
25%, uses old Waterfowl more frequently.
That sounds pretty nice. Not sure how you'd set up phase 2, though.
@@johnnyd.1004 I think if you keep phase 2 as is with the phase 1 outlined above, her added aggression in phase 2 should still make it a nail biter. Just like normal, the key to success will be a good first phase and not getting caught by her Waterfowl or doppelganger attacks in phase 2. I don't think we need to reinvent the wheel here. It'd still be plenty challenging.
to be honest, I like this version more. she fight more like a dancer rather than a warrior. fluid movement and everything
A good swordsman/warrior is exactly that, fluid, light on their feet, etc.
Except she's a warrior not a dancer lol.
Same
She’s blind so she would have to fight differently , akin to a dancer
@@Aiden-iy9du except swordsmanship can resemble a dance if you are good enough
You mean to tell me the original Waterfowl is something you can not only run from, but also doesn't have the insane tracking of the current one. Even more reason to not regret cheesing her.
"I am Tomoe- Blade of Takeru"
Really disappointing that we didn't get this version. Could definitely do without both the block and the self healing, one is enough. But the more aggressive AI in phase 1 and the true waterfowl dance that actually looks consistently avoidable means we missed out big time.
The original waterfowl dance is literally floating cloud passage from sekiro
Honestly, I'd prefer the OG version of Waterfowl Dance displayed here to the one in game. It feels a lot more fair compared to what we got now and it actually feels like something a proper FromSouls boss would use. Kinda brings me back to DS1 Sanctuary Guardian a bit. It is aggressive and it will probably kill you in a corner, but if you actually know your spacing and keep an awareness of the map you can avoid that situation. This feels fair compared to the in game one which is basically an "I win" button for her unless you learn how to dodge it perfectly everytime and at every distance.
It really isn't that difficult if you approach that move like you're studying it, you don't even have to dodge perfectly because with enough defense or health you'll survive the first flurry, which is the worst, the other flurries are easy
Cool opinion… but kinda unrelated. The change here is of name only. She was mean to have 2 very powerful attacks! And the new one might give you even less time to react compared to the in-game version that has her a full second on air to tell you “I’m going to use a combo!”.
So by your implied hatred of the combo, this might make the fight worse for you since it’s current Malenia+ new combo. Not replaced combo Malenia.
@@josetomascamposrobledano4618 What I mean is that if she just had the beta Waterfowl Dance displayed in the video I feel like that might be a bit more enjoyable. It's actually more reminiscent of a dance than the heat seaking missile that we know of in the actual game. It looks like it could be reliably dodged with good spacing and by being a larger distance away from her whereas the other one can catch you from the other side of the field. The wind up may be a little bit faster than the wind up on in game Waterfowl Dance, but since it covers a lot (and I do mean A LOT) less ground, as long as you stay a certain distance away from her during the attack and don't get too greedy you can survive without a scratch.
The reason why I compare this beta version of Waterfowl Dance to something a boss like the Sanctuary Guardian from DS1 might have is because they're both trying to do the same thing which is push you backwards to corner you. In the case of both the standard string of Sanctuary Guardian and beta Waterfowl Dance, if you're in a corner when it happens it's pretty much guaranteed to either kill you or do massive damage, but if you keep a good awareness of your positioning you can avoid being cornered.
In general, if they completely swapped out the in game version of Waterfowl Dance with the beta version I feel like she'd be a bit more fair than she is in game.
@@josetomascamposrobledano4618 how do you miss the entirety of the first sentence of OP’s post
@@BygoneT That's the problem, it feels like you're fighting that specific attack itself and not Malenia.
That makes so much sense! That move looks like an actual dance. Whereas the current one was likely Phase 2 exclusive. She actually Seems to fly during the current version which fits Phase 2 Better since it has wings
Dude, if she had block on top of that, would’ve taken me a lot longer. I tried like 1000 times and buffed 30 levels pre Malenia and post. Took 40 hrs of gameplay buffing+trying for this girl alone.
Just wondering, what weapon did you use? And did you use summons?
@@benbeentjes7088 I used rivers of blood and summoned tiche for a health drop effect. Made a guide here th-cam.com/video/7xG_6YrvAjI/w-d-xo.html basically you really need to dodge waterfowl. If you get that, you got her.
O I already got her, I used Moonveil main hand and Cold Uchigatana offhand, no summons, took me 6 hours at level 143.
The waterfowl was annoying but once I figured out how to dodge that it wasn't too bad most of the time, unless I was in the middle of an attack and she used it close to me then she lands some hits with it. What caught me most is that triple flurry move. You gotta quickly roll into her and it took quite a long time for me to make a habit out of that. All in all I think this is the most difficult boss I ever faced, she seems so unfair at times
I might have oveleveled for her then. xd
Took me 3 attempts with powerstanced staff of loss and lusat's, ranni's dark moon, terra magica, night comet, 80 int and Tiche.
Lvl 170 and I prolly coulve blasted her ass with Comet Azur in her Aeonia recovery animation. Oh well, still felt like I cheesed her when every ping took 1.6k hp off of her.
the 1st attempt was me coming out of the cutscene and her slapping me literarly 2 times. :|
This version of Malenia seems harder, but also better? Apart from the cut waterfowl dance being a gorgeously animated move, to me something always felt a little bit off about the fase 1 Malenia that we got. Now I'm imagining that From made a really good bossfight that was just flat out too hard, and had to make it a little bit worse to make it easier because of time constraints or something. Would be kind of sad (but also understandable).
Lol People think I'm Psychotic when I say I enjoy fight Malenia. To me she's what I wanted Lady Maria and Sir Alonne to be. Someone with such a degree of skill that is more of a dance than a fight for those that are deeply skilled.
Considering how she made ppl suffer with hours of agonizing pain, it was amazing to be able to beat her.
Turns out, she was nerfed. Even now, if she executes water fowl dance at a close distance, it's a guaranteed death and even now beating her is never assured.
@@inabyss its not guaranteed death. you can easily face tank the first flurry then dodge the rest. or you can run to her side and fully dodge it.
Fromsoft definitely rushed a lot of Elden Ring due to time constraints and COVID. The game wouldve been likely better if the pandemic didnt happen OR Bandai was more concerned with good products rather than shareholder profit.
@@emma-rz7mf Just face tank 4head. And have her heal away your past 5 minutes worth of effort?
Waterfowl either needs reduced tracking or a complete overhaul. The original is definitely more fair but sacrifices style for balance. The one we got is too over the top.
she uses both in the original.
@@zanido9073 I don’t see the point, that’s honestly worse…
Nah it's fine
3:58 is a classic FromSoft camera bit. An important moment where you're trying to determine what attack boss is going to use and all you see is your ass covering the entire screen xD
I hope they add some sort of "Inner Bosses" later down the line, so we can have this more aggressive Malenia fight back.
That is 100% the Waterfowl Dance. That is so cool and sad at the same time (that the Waterfowl Dance was removed). Thank you for the effort and information you put in the video
So, since this alpha version combo is the supposed original waterfowl dance, the name makes sense, as she moves in a rhythmic fashion, as if she's dancing, rather than the combo looking like a flurry of attacks like the current waterfowl combo
Would've been cool if they keep and let her use the original waterfowl's dance in her human form and the full-game flurry attack when she reached Godhood as a way to show how the Malenia Goddess of Rot is much more powerful than Malenia Blade of Miquella
Yup it's a Sekiro boss
I just wish someone will mod her into Sekiro. I really wanna try beating her with that combat.
@@kotn3l There was a mod out that brought Sekiro parries/deflects to Elden Ring. Idk how it plays or feels havent got around to it yet.
@@crowstray Swordsmanship is what i believe its called
In the original version, players will remember even better that her name is Malenia and she is the blade of Miquela)
Apparently she says it too in 1.0 on consoles, but I couldn't figure out how to port it to the PC version.
the way she hops on one foot is rather cute
Interestingly, there is a link between the animation of the “secret” waterfowl dance, and the heavy attack of the flowing curved sword. Each of them attack in the same manner, but the specific link is the position of the sword between and after the flurries. For Melania’s own rush, it is a modification of the technique, where instead of bringing the sword upward to swing, the sword is put below her and she rushes forward above it, rather than focusing on keeping the blade above her head. I also believe the dance is named after the one-legged hopping motion that we see her make. In my personal opinion, I believe they removed that flurry for that specific reason: the waterfowl dance is named after the dance itself, and having her execute an extremely recognizable technique would be a little bit too on the nose.
Idk man I feel like “having the extremely recognizable move tied to a name that’s very clearly inspired off of it” seems like a good idea lore-wise. Makes sense in universe, considering names come after the creation of the thing.
Man she had 2 waterfowl’s at first hell na
Meanwhile In Another Timeline:
I Am Tomoe.... Blade Of Takeru
Imagine they put both moves in after NG+7 just so you get the true boss they designed and intended.
She's already a terrible boss as it is
@@ghostspud Exactly by that point you’d know her kit this would bring out the real Malenia. Hell I’d want a DS2 NG+ treatment where you face red phantoms. Or cut move sets deemed “too hard”. Lol
@@rgrywatchin that's just plain untrue. Malenia is so ridiculously hard with so little room for failure. That is objectively true. I can dodge 90% of her attacks, sure, but she can dodge 90% of mine. On top of that, her fucking healing is ridiculous. It is the worst mechanic I have seen in the game and that says a lot. Malenia was far and away some of the least fun I have ever had playing any game.
@@ghostspud Sounds like you're bad
@@ghostspud Sounds like you're bad
Actual 1.0 Malenia is different, something went wrong here. In 1.0, waterfowl tracking and distance is vastly improved in that the first flurry cannot be outrun like normal. 2nd flurry is still rollable, but the 3rd flurry will not fly over you like in this video. You cannot dodge all of waterfowl in 1.0 without bloodhounds step
Also she has 1 line of additional kill dialogue; "Now do you understand? I am Malenia, blade of Miquella"
2nd phase dialogue is the same
Thank you for pointing this out! I will make a follow-up video showcasing these changes as well. Is it okay if I leave your username in the video, or should I blur it out?
@@kotn3l you dont have to credit me at all, theres some things im not super positive about. For example I think I was wrong to say the 1st flurry has improved tracking, I think it might just be the hitbox is like 2x as large. And maaaaybe the 3rd flurry is dodgable without BHS but it seems like no matter which direction I move, she is glued onto you.
@@andrewh158true. I'm new and currently fighting her on Elden ring 1.00, I'm stuck at phase 1 now. Every video says like no need to dodge roll, just sprint, light load, bla2, and none works.😢
tbh completely silent Malenia is scarier
Helen Keller mode Malenia
I will never forgive the souls community for nearing this beautiful optional boss
Bruh the fact she blocks attacks regularly in the OG version just gives me Sekiro vibes
Ok seriously, that original Waterfowl Dance looks absolutely beauitful.
A very deadly and elegant technique, fitting perfectly for her way of fighting!
for the first few days of playing, i had bought a disc copy and so, that came with the 1.0 files. I hadnt updated the game until a few days later.
And I remember only doing so because I genuinely could not complete a specific area. I think it was the one with the Regal Ancestor Spirit.
One of the flaming braziers or something was completely missing, and this issue was only fixed when I updated the game.
But even so, i remember updating it, and noticing the UI was completely different.
Also my friend, had already updated his game, so he had gotten the Uchigatana in a dungeon, and I went to that same spot, and it wasnt there for me until I updated it.
Its like a totally different game at launch.
The brazier is accessible from the original part Siofra River you get to from the well, through the hidden teleporter to the Dragonkin Soldier fight. The pillar is just randomly in the back of its arena lol. (credit to BertoPlease for showing off 1.00)
It looks a lot more like an actual dance in the sense of fighting styles as well.
This is the version of Malenia that I personally played against, my wifi was out for months but I had the disc of Elden Ring. Not to mention there was many items in wrong locations or simply not existing, and there was also pretty terrible balancing on everything, the Halo Scythe was probably the strongest weapon in the game believe it or not, I mowed through nearly every boss using it.
As a person who has the 1.0 version (my router doesnt reach my ps4) im glad i get to fight this Melania.
Dude this looks as cinematic as a sekiro fight wtf
she actually moves and flows like an actual godlike warrior warrior
insane that they made waterfowl HARDER in the final game
The 2nd phase waterfowl dance is absolutely sublime
I actually want to see her use that kick move more. Never seen that before. Great job on the video!
malenia getting sturdy with it
Old Waterfowl dance also seems to resemble the Nox Flowing Sword charged heavy attacks, which is supposed to be the sword of her mentor.
- Has 2 ultimate moves
- Can use them throughout the fight whenever he wants, can spam them in a row
- Blocks almost every second attack
I have one question for the people who allowed this to be released - were they on drugs? What went through the minds of game designers when they said, "Yeah, it's okay, good boss." Did they test it at all?
This is the top tier of PVP skill level
That explains the name “water fowl” and she’s doing it while on water too.
Can’t believe we didn’t get this and got super saiyan radahn instead
The actual Waterfowl dance seems way more fair to me
I wish they just kept that one and got rid of the stupid one she uses now
1000% this one is easier.
So she has two waterfowl dances and she can do them even at full health and she blocks
This version actually seems much more fun to fight. Sad they changed it
Yo the original dance looks ten times more intimidating!
Hopping on one foot looks silly to me.
Ngl the og waterfowl dance in second phase is pure beauty, honestly one of the best designed bosses in any game to date, good job postergirl
It's actually easy to read, doesn't fuck with the camera, and is an actual dance.
Course it looks a tad funny and a bit slower, but I still wish it was in the game, perhaps with some tweaking. It's like, the one we got is a retreat at all cost, one hit and your dead (despite being a flurry), type move, and this is a daunting pursuer you must keep pace with or counter, type move.
Damn, I wish Malenia blocking and the original waterfowl dance were in game. At least for NG+ that would be awesome, having more of a challenge.
The block animation basically confirms this was planned as a sekiro fight.
This is what our grandfather means when they say "Back in 1.0, it was way harder"
Bro when she started slowly floating upwards it unlocks some sort of flight response in me I felt so terrified lmao
The real blade of miquella was at the 1.0
I do think that it was cool she had the waterfowl dance, and then the other one was similar but it feels more angry
Wow she definitely looks like a Sekiro boss here.
I'm really sad they cut this, it actually looks much better than what we have now.
Now the real question is: who would win..1.0 Malenia or the current patch Malenia? My bets are on the 1.0 because she blocks attacks more often.
why does her waterfowl dance look so cute?
I always thought the 1.0 UI looked quite jarring in comparison to the game's aesthetic and other UI elements. I'm glad they changed it for the release, looks much more stylized and doesn't stick out like a sore thumb.
The 1.0 waterfowl is too goofy, i'm glad they removed malenia hopping on one leg
Not gonna lie, she had to be the final boss battle because I died more to her then the final boss
wow, that unused waterfowl animation is so much more fitting.. I want that instead of what we got..
please can you made this for margit ?
his original fight was way more atmosphiric with the cnt ost than the final game ost
Oh yeah, i was not able to beat it pre patched xD but I gotta uninstall and redo the OG 1.0 now
They shouldn't have removed water fowl dance from her rot form, looks so nice with the butterflies and lights and would've given her other form a different feel.
the true malenia fight
Malenia 1.0 🤝 winter lanterns with unused attacks
NOW DO YOU UNDERSTAND?
Daaaaaaaaaaaaaamn, this actually proves that Malenia's original model was Tomoe from Sekiro
in phase 1 she have additional dialogue when you die
Really? Is there a video showcasing that? I couldn't get that working sadly.
@@kotn3l She says something like "Now you know... I am malenia blade of miquella". I think it actually makes more sense then the current version now because of that other line before the line we all know. I'm saying that because I finished the game in this version on ps4.
@@picolascage8329 Thank you for sharing this!! I actually did hear that dialogue when skimming through all the audio files, and always wondered where that would belong.
@@kotn3l Your welcome, great video by the way! I also think it would be awesome to see an analysis video like that for radahn's fight in 1.0 as well.
@@kotn3l She actually still has this dialogue in the JP version on current patch. The line is "知り得たか？ミケラの刃、マレニアを" which translates to "Now you know, I am Malenia..." but contextually in Japanese it's more like "Do you now understand how hopeless you are in the face of Malenia, Blade of Miquella?"
The actual waterfowl dance is so cool!
shame we didnt get both flurries, the actual dance looks wonderful to die to
Holy shit that other waterfowl dance looks so much more awesome
I see why they removed the true waterfowl dance though. It’s either insanely easy to dodge if you’re distanced or insanely hard if you stay in range which seems even more inescapable than the other flurry. That’s my 2 cents at least.
That was a very nice audio transition at 4:50
I have the ps4 1.00 ver and it took me a week and a half to beat her. Probably one of my favorite formsoft boss because the combat of the fight. Love the fact that people are finding ways to experience the true horror. Unlike the water down version there is now. Also take a look at ver 1.00 endgame godfrey the first elden lord. He is very different than current patch.
The blocking and attack patters essentially confirm that she's cut sekiro content
Idk, like this is harder but better. Like I'd love to fight her especially if we get unlimited stamina
The orange sparks from her prosthetic, having a prosthetic, the fact she can block attacks, the flurry combos that look like they should be chain-deflected. Many have said it, but this is absolutely a boss at least inspired by Sekiro, if not cut from it.