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@@dirtyscoundrel2013 gaga was one of the 3 people who attacked Lydia along with Margo and alfred and then he and alfred said negan attacked and killed her when he accidentally killed her when he tried to stop them from hurting Lydia
Yes but specially the first 2 season. The rest of the seasons are still good of course, not denying that, but they become more of "villain of the week" type thing, while s1 and 2 was focused square on intimately conected characters. Some excdptions ofc, like season 4 with the flu arc and post governor separation, or S5-6 with the gang facing the dilemma about the alexandrians. Some of my personal favorites.
Shane killing the walkers in the barn was the reality check everyone needed. And if he didn't do that they would've been looking for Sophia forever and more people would've died. He was right about almost everything, but he was so unstable and eratic that Rick had no choice.
@@luis.vuitton I'll admit yeah it took a different strength but not a better one. Shane's written well but he isn't good. Both opening the barn and his intention to kill Rick were out of need for power. Both actions brought harm to the group. People think that Shane was "able to make the hard choices when Rick wasn't" but if Rick had died instead of Shane that night it's far more likely the entire group would have died that night too.
@@ergoanteros Nah, that is completely pointless thing. When she came out, they didn't kill her right away, because they were inspecting her and left some time for Carol. Plus Shane had a shotgun or rifle, her corpse would look awful.
Dude I remember it to and it was CODs best maps transit 🤣 later we called it TWD because they went to town, dinner, and medical facility and the bus if you played old school of BO2 COD ZOMBIES
No one ever mentions that Shane was willing to sacrifice himself first and let Otis go on ahead. But Otis refused to leave Shane behind so he took matters in his own hands and left Otis behind instead.
@@ArmyJuan1991lmfao what the fuck got to this conclusion??? i haven't watched this season since i was 13 and never once did i think of something this fucking stupid.
@@DeezCheez69 Shane was Hurt and limping though at the end with Otis helping him walk. He was going to stay behind and let Otis go but Otis refused to leave him behind
@@nialcc no, think about it. Daryl was there for her from the start. When she was an infant she would stop wailing when he picked her up. He was the father Rick wasn't. Negan was a father figure. I believe he was trying to make up to her how he failed with Carl. Who did she live with when mischone rode off looking for Rick? And POS Rick kind of brushed her off to focus on RJ in the last of us. Poor kid lost two mom's and four dad's basically.
@@dirtyscoundrel2013 - OMG, you are out of your mind. You just made up that BS out of nothing that was EVER on the scene. If I really cared anything about Judith or Daryl I might have taken the time to point of even piece of garbage you wrote. But because I don't give a rat azz, I don't care.
I think one of the main things that opened Shane’s eyes to this new world was seeing the hospital staff being gunned down in the hospital in the very beginning, when he was trying to wake Rick up. He saw that they were killing Live people. I think that had a bigger effect on him than he or anyone realized.
There’s also that scene where he’s on the highway with Lori and Carl, I think where they meet Carol and her family, and he sees Atlanta being bombed by the military.
@@fromthefire4176 yet somehow after that he still sees the military as the best chance their group has for survival which is why he is so adamant that they should head to Fort Benning.
It was one of the biggest things that escalated his insanity tbh, like people not seeing the gravity of their new world after what he saw, it'd be frustrating t
A big part of him deciding on killing Rick was Lori saying Sorry and Thanks which he misinterprets as wanting him back. Both Sarah Wayne Callies and Jon Bernthal agreed on that part in the behind the scenes. This was an excellent video from an excellent content creator. His guilt tears him apart and distorts his world view even more than he already had. I love Jon Bernthal, He's my favorite actor and I was introduced to him from his portrayal of Shane Walsh.
nope, he saw it was closure and felt he didn't have a reason to live anymore. Shane was despressed. He wnated to force rick into the man he been begging him to be
Shane attempted to kill Rick when looking for Sofia. He had him in his crosshairs and dale witnessed it He attempted this again at the school before even Shane talked to Lori Shane wasn't depressed. And he wasn't trying to make Rick into whatever people perceive this has as we constantly see Rick making the tough choices and this was nailed in the episode Nebraska Shane had enough being the second wheel and wanting Lori. He sees Rick as destroying what he had in the apocalypse, a group of his own and a ready made family lori and carl
Yeah I fucking hated Lori ngl she was so evil to Shane after Rick came back. He genuinely wasn't in the wrong being with her after he had no reason to expect to ever see rick again. She should have been honest about what happened between them with both parties and let them move on as they saw fit. She just kept going back and forth and playing with his hope that they could be a thing again and it drove the man insane, among other things.
I liked Shane because he was the tank of the group. The one who got shit done and could throw a punch. It's a shame that he was only arround 2 seasons.
The series would’ve ended a lot sooner if he was still with the group tbh, either that or negan or the governor would’ve seen him for the threat he was and probably killed him asap.
If you read the comic you would appreciate the tv show version of Shane much more. He left at the perfect time, sure he could have developed far more and it would be also interesting in another timeline either if he stayed with the group or after killing Rick
@@Peraliq I think they did as much as they could with the character. But definitely feels weird that he never got to be apart of the later season groups.
shane was the best parts of both seasons if you pay attention to everything he does , it makes sense and he was put in bad situations to help the group
Completely perfect explanation. I couldn’t have said it any better, Lori fed the fire just as Shane had seemed to have come to accepting that he had to let go of her/Carl. It’s like he was ALMOST out and she pulled him back in and ultimately led to him just succumbing to his feelings.
yes! i hate when ppl say lori is overhated when she is directly responsible for manipulating both shane and rick. she literally told rick to kill him then got mad when he was FORCED to kill him. not to mention playing with shanes emotions knowing how unstable he was.
Lori might have fed the fire but Shane already lit that fire when he tried to grape Lori. I'll never understand this fandom when they try to polish up a potential grapist, absolute weirdos. And Lori didn't get mad at Rick for killing Shane, it was because Carl shot him
@@rosita3528what you said doesn’t even make sense. Him attempting to grape her has nothing to do with her misleading him and sending mixed signals later down the line. And yes, she was upset at him for killing Shane. She started getting upset when Rick said he wanted to do it.
Whoaaa I Never thought of it like that! Shane was there during the initial outbreak & saw things Rick wouldn’t see for another couple months. That had to have played a part in Shanes survival mode spiral
@@luis.vuittonYeah that's true, Rick didn't actually see civilization as it was fall, or the bombings and the military/government giving up on people and cities. Rick just woke up and had to adapt to an already fallen world, and had help from Morgan and his son to boot. Plus he found his family. Shane had to witness everything from the beginning. Good points
Shanes' worst downfall is that he didn't know or practice the balance between knowing that you can't use others as any reason to exist and not to be totally selfish either. Being too selfish or selfless, can both be bad extremes.
The constant back-and-forth that she shows him between venom and regret it enough to drive anyone over the edge Especially when there’s nothing else to focus on
If he was around longer I feel like Rick would’ve died or Shane would’ve just a little later in season 3. It was a big turning point because when Shane died and came back, Rick had to tell the “we’re all infected line”. Shane and Rick are both protectors fighting for the alpha spot imo and in the wild, there can only be one leader. Which in this post apocalyptic civilization, it basically is the wild. No laws or rules unless you and your group make some to follow. If the seasons that Shane was in was less of Shane turning into the villain/anti hero, I think he could’ve had some really good character development, or really bad, but he might’ve lost it when Lori died, because she very well could’ve died earlier than the prison if you rerun the show with a different time span around Shane’s character arc.
The creator of the show said Shane was not equipped to survive in the new world as to why Rick could. Rick could kill when needed and live with it as Shane always felt guilty, especially after killing Otis It's stated Shane and his group would have ran into the governor who would have proceeded to kill them all When he killed Randell Shane had completely gone full blown into villain mode
@@ZeonEons you are right. But, rick didnt need to feel guilty because he only killed for a good reason. People could argue if killing otis was with good reasons, but I dont think rick would have done it. I think Shane would had survived if he would have runned into another group that suited him better.
@@Ken-Morten Rick states he would have done anything to save Carl. Anything, stated to shane on the highway. Rick doesn't mince his words and I truly believe he would have done what shane had to do but I think rick would have used another method. Shane acts, while rick is always assessing the best or worst case scenarios Shane also proved he isn't a team player. Ricks group were the easiest to manage but as we saw in nebraska, those guys were beyond saving and shane can't live with guilt so if he fell into that group, he's headed down a bleak and painful road but as kirkman stated eventually those at the farm would have ran into the governor at some point. The governor doesn't do a whole lot of recruiting as we see when he murders people for their resources and he certainly wouldn't want someone like shane. His hatred for rick was proof enough
I don't know if this was done on purpose, but the fact that whenever someone directly confronts Shane, he can barely bring himself to look at them does a nice job of accentuating his shade and inner conflict.
Shane saw Sophia and Dale die under Rick’s leadership and Carl get shot and almost die. Shane wasn’t insane for thinking Rick couldn’t protect Lori and Carl because of that due to Rick being indirectly responsible for both Sophia and Dale’s deaths and Shane saw Rick as weak for not wanting to kill Randall who was a direct threat to the group and who tried to kill Carl.
I also feel like he went mad because of others viewing him as the bad guy even tho he was giving reasonable solutions or answer to problems like Randall or Sophia being already dead.
Shane was putting his needs first above all others. He was going to lose Carol and Daryl as Shane wanted to give up on the search This wasn't unnecessary it was important to keep people from losing control, losing hope, which was the entire theme of season 2 Hershel was the Pinnacle and plot point of that narrative and Shane destroyed it when he opened the barn He put Glenn, Hershel and Rick in danger as they had to go look for Hershel who was drowning his sorrows in a nearby town Which lead to a shootout, demonstrating to the audience that Rick is cold blooded when the scenario requires it as he did when he shot Sofia. This lead them to acquire Randell Rick then made his mind up with Shane before Shane planned to murder him. Which everyone seems to not realize. Shane can't do what needs to be done. Rick can and this is demonstrated throughout season 2
@@ZeonEons Yea Shane killed Otis and couldn’t live with himself, it was Rick who ran off the highway when no one else would into the dangerous Walker infested woods to save Sophia, it was Rick who accepted his failure when he put down Walker Sophia and Shane couldn’t get himself to do it, it was Rick who went after Hershel and shot Dave and Tony to save his group, it was Rick who was going to put Dale down when he failed to save him as well before Daryl stepped in and did it because he didn’t want a Rick to carry the burden of putting down another group member, it was Rick who made the decisive decision to kill Shane when Shane could’ve just shot Rick but didn’t do it and then Rick took the opportunity to finish off Shane who was too much of a loose canon to be controlled and would’ve been a liability. Rick had what it took to survive long term and Shane didn’t. Rick’s Officer Friendly persona died in Season 2 but he evolved and became a better leader than Shane.
Rick adapted to the apocalypse, Shane succumbed to it because he wasn't able to live with himself. Shane is just like The Governor, grief took his humanity and in the end he was too far gone.
100% agreed. And Robert Kirkman the creator stated that too. Shane adapted faster because Rick was in a coma. Once Rick had woken up, met up with Morgan before finding shane and his family, Rick was up to speed. Morgan told him all about how the walkers behave Unlike Rick, Shane couldn't live with emotional trauma that had to be done when required.
I feel for Shane, too. No one besides Rick and Rick’s family were people Shane cared about. Shane could’ve helped his own family, or his friends that he knew were alive, but he helped save Rick’s family. Then, his best friend, Rick and the person he loved and wanted to take care of, Lori both hated him. Shane was too far gone because he sacrificed everyone he knew for the Grimes and the Atlanta group, and they didn’t like him.
@@ZeonEons Once Shane accepted that Rick's family were his, and his alone, he didn't have anything left. When Philip Blake accepted that his daughter was truly dead, there was nothing left. It was a full circle moment.
@@ZeonEons not in the show, but everyone has a family. Shane likely isn’t an orphan with no father, no mother, no sisters or brothers, no cousins, no uncles or aunts. He has someone he is related to that he could have saved, and he had friends he knew were alive.
A scene most people don't bring up is from season 2, after the barn had been dealt with, Shane found Carol wandering around and calmly took her and sat her down and began to wash her muddy hands. "I want you to know that I'm real sorry for your daughter....I was just trying to keep everybody safe." Carol responds with "thank you". Shane cared about the entire group. He defended carol against Ed multiple times, he took Andrea under his wing, he trained everyone to shoot etc. Yes, Shane did some messed up stuff, but it was clear he never acted with ill intent.
Well, that’s obviously not true you can’t attempted murder somebody with positive intent, but we can say his intent got more negative overtime because Lori is stupid.
Shane wasnt a bad guy at heart he just wanted to do what he thought he had to do. My favorite explanation was that he adapted too quickly to the new world. I feel like the only difference between shane and what rick would become is that shane had anger issues and was to extreme about everything and toward the end he went insane, namely in his last episode where you can see it as hes losing his shit with randall and that is when shane turned into "the bad guy" and even then he wasnt really bad he was just so mentally ill.
@glc5o it is a mistake if you are not in the right mind. He was completely shitfaced. If he was stone cold sober and did it that's a choice. Do I condone it either way? Absolutely the fuck not but he's a good man who did a bad thing while drunk
True and when he tried to leave the group, she guilted him into staying by using Carl, then told Rick that Shane was a danger and needed taking care of, like ??? Tf Lori?
I've never considered shane a villain. He was always an antagonist. I never labeled him an antihero, he was just a dude who got fucking traumatized by life. More a cautionary tale
Take the fact that his only other option was to "guide Rick an just help him" that's not a good option he would have to sit their an fight with him anyway.
Guide someone who sees your ideas your very nature as a threat? When you are right? Okay seems like a possible task remember that time you listened to anyone who told you you were wrong? Ya okay exactly.
Rick is the Tumblr snowflake that needs a safe space an Shane is an always will have been a threat to his "safe space" his ideas were always garbage an nonsense an he could speak them untill he gose blue in the face it wouldn't matter. Rick is at this point unwilling to accept the real world kinda like you Z.
Reality doesn't care about your safe space reality is what Shane can't turn away from while Rick has the ability to ignore reality an embrace his safe space dissociating from reality. An that is the real reason Shane was treated like a dog to be kicked for barking. Words don't make sense to people who are disassociated it legit is like a dog barking. An that dog got put down.
I really wish Shane was sent away rather than killed. It would've been one of the greatest story arcs if he came back seasons later as a villain. Like the leader of A group similar to the claimers Darrell ended up with.
I always thought in Shanes earlier conversations with Lori that he did make a lot of sense, just wanting to talk and being told to go away and leave the whole family alone is just harsh and doesnt alllow anyone to heal, its childish from lori and very mature from shane until he just snaps basically
I did find it really messed up how Rick told Shane that it will be his child when he knew it was Shane's child Lori was carrying Negan is right Rick is indeed a selfish prick and a hypocrite like begging Hershel to let them stay on the farm when Hershel clearly wanted them gone yet early in season 2 running off Tyreese, Sasha, the dude and his kid from the prison.
@@lumpencelt3318 i feel like that's still fair tho at that point she was genuinely scared of him if i was in her position id do the same it's the apocalypse it's not like they can do a custody battle she didn't feel safe around him so why would she want him to father her child yk
I don't understand how that even happens. Lori and Rick are married, and Lori gives birth but lets Shane be the father? Maybe that works in bizarro world but otherwise that would never ever work as long as humans are humans. Unless I'm misunderstanding something.
@@honeybee6606 Right. Like the dude literally tried to s*xually assault her, I think it’s valid for her to not want him around her while she’s pregnant, her family, or the group as a whole. The dude proved time and time again that he was unstable, that he would push people’s boundaries if he disagreed with them, and that he was willing to do “whatever it takes” - that is, whatever *he* thought it took - to get what he wanted, even at the expense of others’ desires or even lives. He’s not an entirely horrible person, he is a complex and interesting character, but everyone paints lori as a bad guy when her feelings are just as - if not more - valid than his are in this scenario.
Shane was a literal product of the times by Robert Kirkman. Kirkman was new on the scene with fresh amazing ideas and writing that played off so well on the screen. The first 3-5 seasons of this show were so impactful because of how much was covered and how well it was done. For better understanding, we as the audience were able to watch our large diverse group of people that come and go be fleshed out full characters all while getting through multiple different villains, groups, and survival complications in general. Once Negan was introduced to the show, even with being an amazing actor and character, everything became repetitive with never any real payoff. Thats why Shane feels so memorable in the overall story, him along with the series in general were peaking.
Rick was even willing to give Shane a chance to just leave Carl and Lori to him, despite all he had already done. He understood that Shane thought he was dead and so did Lori. The fact that he was able to not only keep himself composed knowing that, but also give Shane another chance because he loved him as his best friend, shows that he was a better leader than Shane. However I do have to say this one thing, Shane was 100% right about Randal. Killing him would have ensured their safety. If Rick had wanted to give Randal a chance to prove himself an ally, that's one thing...let him live in the barn until he can prove he was trustworthy and useful. But he wanted to let him go...that's just the worst possible thing you could do.
rick just had a conflict within himself as a parent when carl wanted randal to die, ig rick wanted carl to be a child for a little more and its a main thing that stopped him
I love Shane heck he is one of my favorite characters and this is how I have always thought but I wasn’t sure if I was right. I feel Lori led him on too much. Also he tried to get Otis to sacrifice him but Otis wouldn’t so it was either 3 people dead(Carl too) or one person dead and Shane chose correct even if it was wrong to do. Sometimes the correct thing isn’t always the right thing to do. Shane is one of the most complex characters and deserves more love. Top three in my book. Lemme tell you sumthin they in the woooooooods man.
Am i the only one who thinks that Shane didn't wanna kill Rick at the end? He provoked Rick multiples times and had enough time to kill him but he didn't. I think he realised that he couldn't lead the group anymore and trusted Rick to be the one to do it. Therefore killing his best friend in order for Rick to change and be the good leader and protecter of the group and his family.
So apparently that scene was rewritten. What was supposed to happen was Rick was to kill Shane and when he turned into a walker, Rick was supposed to use Shane’s gun but Shane didn’t put bullets in it. Shane wanted to push him and he had no plan on killing Rick.
i feel like he would do good in a group like the saviours but i don’t think he could go along with all the “rules” since he tended to speak his mind and if he pulled something off so reckless like ripping the barn open while Negan was in charge i don’t think he would last long I would of loved to see Rick meet him again like the Morales scene if he decided to leave the farm instead of dying there
Shane compromised his position of leadership when he decided not to assist the group on a trip into Atlanta. On a surface level, Shane was right that it wasn't worth risking all their lives for Merle and some guns, but it was the moment everyone shifted their allegiance towards Rick. Rick was willing to risk his life to save Merle, and it was that act of selflessness that built trust and loyalty. Rick continued acting this way consistently throughout both seasons. So, it seemed like no matter what Shane would say or do, or how right he was, which was often, he just came off as a total prick that couldn't win the loyalty of the group. Every time he was given a chance to help someone, he would have the mentality of leaving them behind. He made an exception to help Carl, but he botched that by murdering Otis. I sympathize with Shane, but I also see how Rick was ultimately the right choice to lead moving forward. If nothing else, Shane was used as the tool in helping harden Rick into the person he needs to become in order to survive. Shane was the first bump in the road in what would eventually turn a whole lot worse as time progresses.
True, but the first seasons of Rick he was still a Pacifict and could hardly adapt to the new world. While Shane adapted to the new world a lot quicker and made mostly the right calls as a leader.
@@Idk98268 yeah he still had his cops experience. That's what's he learned from being a cop. Not from the apocalypse. In Season 3/4/5 he learned how to behave in the apocalypse
Those moments from lori around minute 10:00 are so contradictory man. All of this could have been avoited if they talked like adults :( i love this story and your analisis ❤
Love how despite Shane completely losing his mind,willing to do whatever it takes to protect Lori and Carl, he still couldn’t bring himself to kill Rick, he could’ve just shot him straight away,but he kept delaying the moment,asking for Rick’s gun even tho he didn’t need it at all,gave Rick multiple chances to do something.I still believe that if Rick didn’t stab him Shane would’ve lowered his gun
That’s a way I never really looked at it. Shane KNEW what it took to survive more so than Rick but he didn’t HAVE what it took to survive and he let selfish desires drive him off the deep end. I gotta say I been binging your twd vids and they’re really good! Great video man
I noticed while rewatching the first two season of the show I noticed that in the second to last episode of season two where Lori apologizes and realizes Shane’s feelings were valid and so were hers there was a glimmer of hope for Shane. He was willing to let everything go since he got the closure that he needed from Lori, he later went out of his way to tell Rick he should really check in on HIS son but by this point Shane had drove in his philosophy and message so damn far into Rick’s head that Rick was already to untrusting of Shane and was already becoming like Shane that he started being argumentative over his family. This lead to Shane no longer being able to love peacefully with Rick anymore. I firmly believe Shane was right to act the way he did, Considering the circumstances but in the end it was his fault for being so ahead of the curve that it ruined every friendship he had
The Lori situation is a perfect example of tragic irony. Shane thought that he was the guy to protect her. Lori ends up dying during childbirth, the birth of Shane’s child. Shane inadvertently killed Lori because of his obsession with her. If he never impregnated Lori, she may have survived far further into the series.
And in a sense Lori killed Shane too. With her constant mind games, she drove the guy nuts. The first 2 seasons of this show are a storytelling masterpiece.
If Shane lived until prison arc, he wouldve executed the prisoners on spot, thus not allowing that guy to trigger the alarm and cause panic. So she wouldnt have died as a result of it.
Something that stood out to me was Shanes reaction to Dales death. Shane was genuinely shocked and disturbed at the scene. He was just freaking out and could barely bring himself to look at Dale. Like you said he was unable to live with doing what had to be done by putting the man he feuded with out of his misery, so Darryl did it instead. In their own ways both Dale and Shane were unable to adapt to the new world, and it took a toll on both of them. I think they genuinely could have been at least cordial friends if they both got their acts together, we even see they were capable of something like this prior to the later half of season two.
This is a great video and thank you for making it. There’s more than meets the eye to Shane who is often written off as a deranged villan or the apex chad of survival that played 5d meta chess. He was a clever, pragmatic survivor and capable leader that meant well when it came to protecting the group but could and often was an obsessive hot head when people refused to listen. He was his own worst enemy under stress as Rick mentioned to Herschel and Andrea. For better or worse I saw a lot of myself in this character and think if people take an honest look at themselves they may find more similarities to Shane than they’d care to admit. If I can make an analogy: Rick is classic Spider-Man , Shane after Rick returns and the majority of season 1 is like black suit Spider-Man with the Symbiote, not worlds apart from being a classic protagonist but clearly more aggressive with a no nonsense attitude in his judgments. He teeters back an fourth a bit in season 2 - struggling with his inner demons much like Spider-Man did but he ultimately gave in to becoming venom, a dark mirror foil of his former best friend in his last couple of episodes
Great Video! You should probably make a video on why Lori was so disliked by fans. She is indirectly responsible for how he reacted. How she used his unborn child to keep her family together was terrible!!
Shane was everything he was supposed to be in the new world but he was way ahead of his time. Ppl still had their morals and souls and hadn’t adjusted yet to the world but Shane adjusted immediately. He’s definitely a villain but I believe he would’ve survived if it wasn’t for Lori. I stick by that till this day.
Keep up the great work! I knew the actor who played shane was gonna do more great things, he really sold the character more than any other from season one besides Daryls brother, i forget his name at the moment, he also played his chatacter very well!
I think Shane was accepting things until Lori felt the need to alleviate her own guilt for how she treated him and had him come off the ladder to talk to him. He wanted her and fatherhood more than ever after that so-called vulnerability she displayed. Soon after he attempted to kill Rick
Man that frycry5 music played at the end puts me in my feels every time. Great a analysis, shane propelled the group to where they need to be in terms of combat, levels of trust, finding a strong hold to call home, and then pushed rick to be the leader he needed to be to survive.
Awesome video. Shane is certainly one of the best written characters in, not just the TV series, but the franchise as a whole. Question, how would you have handled the Randall situation? Personally, I would've gone with Maggie's suggestion to keep him prisoner because I think his group would've found the farm regardless, and it would be better to have some sort of bargaining chip. Daryl's critique of this suggestion was that Randall would just be another mouth to feed, but my counterargument would be to just starve Randall rather than give him the same amount of food everyone else gets (Lori's idea to rashen better should also help this suggestion alot).
Yeah. Shane was done extremely dirty by lori. Yeah i understand her wanting to end that relationship once rick got back, and even understand her wanting him to step back a little and not try and act like he was Carls father, but she shoulda pulled both rick and shane into a private room and explained that she knew this baby was shanes and so she was gonna let shane take the role of father to it and rick was gonna have to remain a uncle like figure to her, just like shane had to take a step back and take on the uncle role again after acting as a father figure to carl for those few months they thought rick was dead. I dont think she is vile like some uber lori haters for her getting with shane in the first place though, thats just a logical conclusion to the situation they were in, shane decided to make sure his brothers family survived and in the process fell deeply for lori, and lori fell for her hero and protector Shane the same way. Its just how she went about ending it and the whole trying to stop him from getting a chance to be in his soon to be born kids life, that is what rubbed me wrong.
I noticed you used the far cry 5 sound track. As beautiful as the far cry 5 soundtrack is I always found is a bit creepy almost like a cult trying to lure you in with some heart warning and welcoming music which is perfect for the games plot. So even in the home screen when that song played it always gave me a feeling of unease
Laurie was extremely flippant with the way she treated Shane She could’ve shown compassion, but chose not to He asked her if she meant it when she asked him to stay? She probably didn’t even even remember saying it
" Let me tell you something about Hew-mons, Nephew. They're a wonderful, friendly people, as long as their bellies are full and their holosuites are working. But take away their creature comforts, deprive them of food, sleep, sonic showers, put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time and those same friendly, intelligent, wonderful people... will become as nasty and as violent as the most bloodthirsty Klingon. You don't believe me? Look at those faces. Look in their eyes." -Quark. Even hundreds of years into the future humanity never changes
Dude basically got manipulated and played like a harp whenever Lori needed him and threw him out a piece of trash when she was done over and over . Shane just went bonkers in the end, no right in wut he did but shit
Ngl Lori is one of the biggest reasons why Shane is the way he is, they both were at fault and she blamed him for it and continuously gaslighted him. how was he supposed to know Rick would survive that shi(regardless that doesn’t justify the actions to sleep with your bros wife bc he’s “dead”)
I’d really like to see more walking dead character deep dives like this one, I feel like I understand Shane’s character way more now & this was a different perspective than what most say about Shane.
randomly came across this video, and I think you did a great job with it. you hear a lot of people say that Shane was built for the apocalypse, but you addressed an interesting angle in saying that in reality he couldn’t cope with it. I remember hearing about an original script, where, when Rick kills Shane, he tries to use Shane’s gun to put him down when he reanimates, but it was empty - meaning that Shane never really meant to kill Rick, and just wanted to trick Rick into killing him because he couldn’t do it himself
@@metaphysicalparadoxnope wasn’t in the comics the actor WANTED this ending Shane was killed similarly to how the show did it in the comics just much earlier
Even in the end I feel like Shane was trying to show Rick how the new world is. Shane understood the complexity of the situation, him and Lori being together, Rick unexpectedly comes back in the picture, Lori ends up pregnant with Shane's baby. Rick becomes the leader of the group. Now Shane was glad to have his friend back and didn't mind following Rick's lead however Rick and the group had yet to adapt in the Apocalyptic world they we're in. Throughout most of the second season you see Shane constantly trying to convince Rick the reality of it all. In the end, he was pretty far gone but his final mindset was "Rick if you're not going to step up to the plate for the group and your family/my family then I will."
Shane was just ahead of curve, he was my favorite character, and I thought every decision he made was totally logical maybe not socially conscious but it does beg the question of how he would have approached the major problems in the future if he hadn't been smoked.
You earned a subscription from me. Always found Bernthal's portrayal to be Incredible. Every step along his narrative path, I UNDERSTOOD where Shane was coming from. It was logical. In that insane world with unknowable pressures, he reacted like a human would, at every step.
Finally someone bravely described the character of Shane. And this description is accurate, the arguments and the assigned fragments. Finally, everyone who hates Shane should not immediately think of him as an envious person - but will start to think what is wrong. "Why did this happen?"
You summed him up well.Always loved shane! He was so often right and knew what had to be done but he was not able to shoulder that burden. Especially when both Lorrie and Rick try to remove him from Judith. I raged at Rick to just acknowledge Shane had some claim to Judith who knows maybe that would have been enough. Poor Shane. He likely would have been a 'great' dad in an apocalypse but everything was taken from him and he was right that rick was too weak then. There is a reason he suicided by cop. Fantastically done character who buckles under the weight and superbly acted by Jon Bernthal!
I wouldn't really call that assault he was trying to see if there was any feelings left in a sexual way and he did stop when he realized she was serious.. If Shane really was trying to assault her then he would have. A few scratches wouldn't have been enough to stop him imo
@@McSkippy374 Re-watch the episode man idk how you can interpret it any other way. She shouldn't have to be forced to fight back like that to stop him. She says stop multiple times and he didn't listen so she defends herself. That's textbook S Assault. The scene was written that way to show you how Shane really is. I know its fictional but your interpretation of that scene is concerning to me
Lori made Shane a villain, if she didn't bounce back and forth and just set it straight they were done but they could co parent Judith, he wouldnt have hated Rick so much and they would probably have been unstoppable.
Nope. It's a pretty easy excuse for a fan of Shane's character to say "he was just pushed! He was never unstable" but think of most characters in his position. They would NOT have done that. There was definitely something wrong with his mind and his bullshit would get someone killed eventually.
I really really think everyone forgets what he did to Lori in the cdc. And how early that is in the show. "If shane had lived to meet negan-" but he didnt. Shane was an adult man who consciously and consistently made decisions that would only benefit him or would intentionally harm others. Shane was willing to kill rick, even early on. He was willing to hurt people, even early on. His reaction to Rick returning and Lori changing her mind about him (BY THE WAY. AS SHE SHOULD? Her 'dead' husband just showed up out of nowhere, after his best friend told her he was dead for certain.) was to be an asshole to Carl? And to try to socially shoulder check Rick? Everyone praises him for being strong enough to open the barn, but Rick is the one who put Sophia down.
It's been awhile since I've seen this show, But I remember distinctly understanding his character. I knew he was far gone, But I understood him. I think I even realized he wanted to die, Which is why he got close to allow rick to kill him.
One thing you didn't touch on is the argument than Shane would have been a good leader. Shane didn't care about the group, he only cared about Lori and Carl. In S2E5 he said to Lori "The only thing I care about now in this world is you and Carl. So I apologize if I appear to be insensitive to the needs of others, but you see I'll do whatever it takes to keep the two of you safe." Shane wouldn't take risks for others in the group, he wouldn't even attempt to help the 6 members of his group stuck at the department store in S1, he wanted to give up looking for Sophia, he sacrificed Otis, he didn't put any value on other members of the group..... Rick did, he went after Glenn when he was captured by G in the retirement home, he went in to rescue Glenn and Maggie at Woodbury, he went to find Herschel after the barn scene (which Shane was against doing) Rick valued the group as a whole.... in S3E15 Rick says to the group "I couldn't sacrifice one of us for the greater good because WE ARE the greater good... We're the reason we're still here, not me." Rick realized that while he was the leader it was the entire group's efforts that helped them stay alive. Shane didn't get that, so in my opinion Shane would NOT have made a good leader because of his lack of value he put on the group as a whole. Rick helped create loyalty among the group where they took risks to defended each other and that is what made them strong.
Shane was a sign of the times. Thats why he himself could recognise what needed to be done but couldn't do it himself. He was a lesson for the survivors that they had to kill but it wouldn't be scott free. It will slowly take its toll making you go mad. Almost everyone of our survivors went mad in some sort of way and came out the other side stronger for it. Shane was the first but he didn't come out the other side. He was a lesson teacher to the rest, and true to the shows fashion, when someone is done teaching the survivors a lession they die. Completing the cycle.
You are the second person I've heard share this take with me, the first being my dad. When the series was airing, the two of us both agreed that Shane's downfall was MOSTLY Lori's fault. The second Rick came back into the picture, she wanted to ghost Shane: No talking to her, no talking to Carl, thanks for everything you did for us now fuck off. Fast forward, there's the matter with Judith. It's yours, Shane, but if you think you get to raise her? Tough shit -- she's going to be Rick's daughter. Then she goes back and forth on being nice to him, to being a bitch, and like you said Shane didn't trust Rick to have what it took to keep her safe, and while it doesn't excuse how he turned out, it does help paint a picture of WHY he turned out like that. I am 100% confident that Shane would have let Rick step back into the picture, so long as Lori didn't forbid him from interacting with Carol, accepted that he was Judith's dad and let him play that role, and didn't just outright tell him to fuck off whenever it came to Rick. He may have ended up butting heads with Rick, but I don't think he would have tried to shoot him, and by the time the Prison came around, I think Shane would have started seeing Rick as more able -- at least for a while -- of keeping Carl safe. Don't know how he would have reacted to Lori's death, honestly, but if he didn't lose his shit there I think Judith would have kept him going.
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Make a video if you think Maggie was right when she didn’t save gage
@@songoku7530i don't remember a gage
It's sad people don't understand him! Amazed to watch channel!
@@dirtyscoundrel2013 gaga was one of the 3 people who attacked Lydia along with Margo and alfred and then he and alfred said negan attacked and killed her when he accidentally killed her when he tried to stop them from hurting Lydia
@@songoku7530 Ah. Okay. Thanks. And thanks for responding 😊
Crazy, how characters that ended Years ago, are still heavily debeated, shows you how good the writing was!
Legendary show mate.. its gone be talked about as long as the people who watched it is alive 😊
Yes but specially the first 2 season.
The rest of the seasons are still good of course, not denying that, but they become more of "villain of the week" type thing, while s1 and 2 was focused square on intimately conected characters.
Some excdptions ofc, like season 4 with the flu arc and post governor separation, or S5-6 with the gang facing the dilemma about the alexandrians. Some of my personal favorites.
It helps that the majority of shows made these days are trash. Makes the good ones really stand out.
I miss the 2010's already!😭
Whenever I rewatch The Walking Dead I always stop before Alexandria, where I believe the show goes downhill. Before then? Amazing show!
Shane killing the walkers in the barn was the reality check everyone needed. And if he didn't do that they would've been looking for Sophia forever and more people would've died. He was right about almost everything, but he was so unstable and eratic that Rick had no choice.
He was strong enough to open the barn but he wasn't able to put Sophia down when the task came to it. Rick was.
Exactamundo. Shane truly was a paradox. One of the greatest written character in tv history.@@ergoanteros
@@ergoanterosRick couldn’t open the barn door in the first place, which took Another kind of strength. I love this show
@@luis.vuitton I'll admit yeah it took a different strength but not a better one. Shane's written well but he isn't good. Both opening the barn and his intention to kill Rick were out of need for power. Both actions brought harm to the group. People think that Shane was "able to make the hard choices when Rick wasn't" but if Rick had died instead of Shane that night it's far more likely the entire group would have died that night too.
@@ergoanteros Nah, that is completely pointless thing. When she came out, they didn't kill her right away, because they were inspecting her and left some time for Carol. Plus Shane had a shotgun or rifle, her corpse would look awful.
The decision to keep Shane around during the farm arc was one of the best of the entire show
no fr imagine if they killed him off in season 1 😭 im happy we got more of him would love to see an alt timeline of him surviving
Dude I remember it to and it was CODs best maps transit 🤣 later we called it TWD because they went to town, dinner, and medical facility and the bus if you played old school of BO2 COD ZOMBIES
@@fernandosanchez9226... And the farm right 😅
Yeah I remember hating Lori, I remember I don't hate Shame but I did dislike him when he wanted to kill Rick
Did he die earlier in the comics?
No one ever mentions that Shane was willing to sacrifice himself first and let Otis go on ahead. But Otis refused to leave Shane behind so he took matters in his own hands and left Otis behind instead.
No one ever mentions how neither of them had to die because they were keeping pace if not out pacing the walkers even with their injuries.
Ya no1 had to die Shane just wanted him dead for shooting Carl
@@ArmyJuan1991lmfao what the fuck got to this conclusion??? i haven't watched this season since i was 13 and never once did i think of something this fucking stupid.
@@DeezCheez69 Shane was Hurt and limping though at the end with Otis helping him walk. He was going to stay behind and let Otis go but Otis refused to leave him behind
@@ArmyJuan1991 Yea you're dumb
Shane wanted to raise Rick's kid, but rick ended up raising Shane's
You mean Michonne ended up raising Shane's kid.
Rick didn't raise Judith. Daryl did. He and many others. Rick was a worse dad then he was a leader.
@@dirtyscoundrel2013 - You mean Daryl was a father figure for her just as Negan but neither of them raised her.
@@nialcc no, think about it. Daryl was there for her from the start. When she was an infant she would stop wailing when he picked her up. He was the father Rick wasn't. Negan was a father figure. I believe he was trying to make up to her how he failed with Carl. Who did she live with when mischone rode off looking for Rick? And POS Rick kind of brushed her off to focus on RJ in the last of us. Poor kid lost two mom's and four dad's basically.
@@dirtyscoundrel2013 - OMG, you are out of your mind. You just made up that BS out of nothing that was EVER on the scene. If I really cared anything about Judith or Daryl I might have taken the time to point of even piece of garbage you wrote. But because I don't give a rat azz, I don't care.
I think one of the main things that opened Shane’s eyes to this new world was seeing the hospital staff being gunned down in the hospital in the very beginning, when he was trying to wake Rick up. He saw that they were killing Live people. I think that had a bigger effect on him than he or anyone realized.
If rick saw that military killing alive people rick would have shane mentality
There’s also that scene where he’s on the highway with Lori and Carl, I think where they meet Carol and her family, and he sees Atlanta being bombed by the military.
@@fromthefire4176 yet somehow after that he still sees the military as the best chance their group has for survival which is why he is so adamant that they should head to Fort Benning.
It was one of the biggest things that escalated his insanity tbh, like people not seeing the gravity of their new world after what he saw, it'd be frustrating t
A big part of him deciding on killing Rick was Lori saying Sorry and Thanks which he misinterprets as wanting him back. Both Sarah Wayne Callies and Jon Bernthal agreed on that part in the behind the scenes. This was an excellent video from an excellent content creator. His guilt tears him apart and distorts his world view even more than he already had. I love Jon Bernthal, He's my favorite actor and I was introduced to him from his portrayal of Shane Walsh.
nope, he saw it was closure and felt he didn't have a reason to live anymore. Shane was despressed. He wnated to force rick into the man he been begging him to be
@@itscrossfadedexactly
Shane attempted to kill Rick when looking for Sofia. He had him in his crosshairs and dale witnessed it
He attempted this again at the school before even Shane talked to Lori
Shane wasn't depressed. And he wasn't trying to make Rick into whatever people perceive this has as we constantly see Rick making the tough choices and this was nailed in the episode Nebraska
Shane had enough being the second wheel and wanting Lori. He sees Rick as destroying what he had in the apocalypse, a group of his own and a ready made family lori and carl
Yeah I fucking hated Lori ngl she was so evil to Shane after Rick came back. He genuinely wasn't in the wrong being with her after he had no reason to expect to ever see rick again. She should have been honest about what happened between them with both parties and let them move on as they saw fit. She just kept going back and forth and playing with his hope that they could be a thing again and it drove the man insane, among other things.
She also told him that she did have feelings for him the short time they were together.
I liked Shane because he was the tank of the group. The one who got shit done and could throw a punch. It's a shame that he was only arround 2 seasons.
The series would’ve ended a lot sooner if he was still with the group tbh, either that or negan or the governor would’ve seen him for the threat he was and probably killed him asap.
If you read the comic you would appreciate the tv show version of Shane much more. He left at the perfect time, sure he could have developed far more and it would be also interesting in another timeline either if he stayed with the group or after killing Rick
@@Sauce_SenseiI agree. Btw I love your pfp 😅
Yeah, I guess negan fills that empty space for me. If only the main show never went downhill & fixed earlier season problems instead
@@Peraliq I think they did as much as they could with the character. But definitely feels weird that he never got to be apart of the later season groups.
shane was the best parts of both seasons if you pay attention to everything he does , it makes sense and he was put in bad situations to help the group
Yeah totally right to leave Otis behind. Totally right to try to kill Rick.
(Sarcasm)
@@christiankatzel9598Did anybody anywhere at any time say it was right? Read. Cmon now
@@dantedevante3598 obviously you have difficulties to read AND understand texts. My condolences
Completely perfect explanation. I couldn’t have said it any better, Lori fed the fire just as Shane had seemed to have come to accepting that he had to let go of her/Carl. It’s like he was ALMOST out and she pulled him back in and ultimately led to him just succumbing to his feelings.
yes! i hate when ppl say lori is overhated when she is directly responsible for manipulating both shane and rick. she literally told rick to kill him then got mad when he was FORCED to kill him. not to mention playing with shanes emotions knowing how unstable he was.
Then she got upset when she heard Rick had to kill Shane.
Lori might have fed the fire but Shane already lit that fire when he tried to grape Lori. I'll never understand this fandom when they try to polish up a potential grapist, absolute weirdos. And Lori didn't get mad at Rick for killing Shane, it was because Carl shot him
@@rosita3528what you said doesn’t even make sense. Him attempting to grape her has nothing to do with her misleading him and sending mixed signals later down the line. And yes, she was upset at him for killing Shane. She started getting upset when Rick said he wanted to do it.
Reminds me of how much i hated her character
Rick waking up 30 to 60 days in to the Apocalypse made all the difference.
Whoaaa I Never thought of it like that! Shane was there during the initial outbreak & saw things Rick wouldn’t see for another couple months. That had to have played a part in Shanes survival mode spiral
@@luis.vuittonexactly
@@luis.vuittonYeah that's true, Rick didn't actually see civilization as it was fall, or the bombings and the military/government giving up on people and cities. Rick just woke up and had to adapt to an already fallen world, and had help from Morgan and his son to boot. Plus he found his family. Shane had to witness everything from the beginning. Good points
@@creasedhorizon8931Makes it weirder that lots of the characters weren't also of that mindset.
@@Thunderous333Shane was the only one who saw military personnel kill civilians and hospital staff during the outbreak going back to save coma Rick.
Shanes' worst downfall is that he didn't know or practice the balance between knowing that you can't use others as any reason to exist and not to be totally selfish either.
Being too selfish or selfless, can both be bad extremes.
Absolutely. Both TWD and Detroit: Become Human showcase this in brutal ways.
Yes this plays out even more in the Walking dead games 😅
The constant back-and-forth that she shows him between venom and regret it enough to drive anyone over the edge
Especially when there’s nothing else to focus on
Thats why he keeps telling people "Let me tell you somethin"😂
I wish Shane was in at least three or four seasons. Two felt like we didn't get enough of him.
I agree..or maybe even longer.
If he was around longer I feel like Rick would’ve died or Shane would’ve just a little later in season 3. It was a big turning point because when Shane died and came back, Rick had to tell the “we’re all infected line”.
Shane and Rick are both protectors fighting for the alpha spot imo and in the wild, there can only be one leader. Which in this post apocalyptic civilization, it basically is the wild. No laws or rules unless you and your group make some to follow. If the seasons that Shane was in was less of Shane turning into the villain/anti hero, I think he could’ve had some really good character development, or really bad, but he might’ve lost it when Lori died, because she very well could’ve died earlier than the prison if you rerun the show with a different time span around Shane’s character arc.
The creator of the show said Shane was not equipped to survive in the new world as to why Rick could. Rick could kill when needed and live with it as Shane always felt guilty, especially after killing Otis
It's stated Shane and his group would have ran into the governor who would have proceeded to kill them all
When he killed Randell Shane had completely gone full blown into villain mode
@@ZeonEons you are right. But, rick didnt need to feel guilty because he only killed for a good reason. People could argue if killing otis was with good reasons, but I dont think rick would have done it. I think Shane would had survived if he would have runned into another group that suited him better.
@@Ken-Morten Rick states he would have done anything to save Carl. Anything, stated to shane on the highway. Rick doesn't mince his words and I truly believe he would have done what shane had to do but I think rick would have used another method. Shane acts, while rick is always assessing the best or worst case scenarios
Shane also proved he isn't a team player. Ricks group were the easiest to manage but as we saw in nebraska, those guys were beyond saving and shane can't live with guilt so if he fell into that group, he's headed down a bleak and painful road but as kirkman stated eventually those at the farm would have ran into the governor at some point. The governor doesn't do a whole lot of recruiting as we see when he murders people for their resources and he certainly wouldn't want someone like shane. His hatred for rick was proof enough
I don't know if this was done on purpose, but the fact that whenever someone directly confronts Shane, he can barely bring himself to look at them does a nice job of accentuating his shade and inner conflict.
I notice the same thing Shane struggles with eye contact immensely.
Shane saw Sophia and Dale die under Rick’s leadership and Carl get shot and almost die. Shane wasn’t insane for thinking Rick couldn’t protect Lori and Carl because of that due to Rick being indirectly responsible for both Sophia and Dale’s deaths and Shane saw Rick as weak for not wanting to kill Randall who was a direct threat to the group and who tried to kill Carl.
They 100% should’ve just killed Randall, especially after he said he knew who Maggie was even if it wasn’t true
I also feel like he went mad because of others viewing him as the bad guy even tho he was giving reasonable solutions or answer to problems like Randall or Sophia being already dead.
Shane was putting his needs first above all others. He was going to lose Carol and Daryl as Shane wanted to give up on the search
This wasn't unnecessary it was important to keep people from losing control, losing hope, which was the entire theme of season 2
Hershel was the Pinnacle and plot point of that narrative and Shane destroyed it when he opened the barn
He put Glenn, Hershel and Rick in danger as they had to go look for Hershel who was drowning his sorrows in a nearby town
Which lead to a shootout, demonstrating to the audience that Rick is cold blooded when the scenario requires it as he did when he shot Sofia. This lead them to acquire Randell
Rick then made his mind up with Shane before Shane planned to murder him. Which everyone seems to not realize. Shane can't do what needs to be done. Rick can and this is demonstrated throughout season 2
@@ZeonEons Yea Shane killed Otis and couldn’t live with himself, it was Rick who ran off the highway when no one else would into the dangerous Walker infested woods to save Sophia, it was Rick who accepted his failure when he put down Walker Sophia and Shane couldn’t get himself to do it, it was Rick who went after Hershel and shot Dave and Tony to save his group, it was Rick who was going to put Dale down when he failed to save him as well before Daryl stepped in and did it because he didn’t want a Rick to carry the burden of putting down another group member, it was Rick who made the decisive decision to kill Shane when Shane could’ve just shot Rick but didn’t do it and then Rick took the opportunity to finish off Shane who was too much of a loose canon to be controlled and would’ve been a liability. Rick had what it took to survive long term and Shane didn’t. Rick’s Officer Friendly persona died in Season 2 but he evolved and became a better leader than Shane.
how rick is even remotely reponsible for sophia's death?
Rick adapted to the apocalypse, Shane succumbed to it because he wasn't able to live with himself. Shane is just like The Governor, grief took his humanity and in the end he was too far gone.
100% agreed. And Robert Kirkman the creator stated that too. Shane adapted faster because Rick was in a coma. Once Rick had woken up, met up with Morgan before finding shane and his family, Rick was up to speed. Morgan told him all about how the walkers behave
Unlike Rick, Shane couldn't live with emotional trauma that had to be done when required.
I feel for Shane, too. No one besides Rick and Rick’s family were people Shane cared about. Shane could’ve helped his own family, or his friends that he knew were alive, but he helped save Rick’s family. Then, his best friend, Rick and the person he loved and wanted to take care of, Lori both hated him. Shane was too far gone because he sacrificed everyone he knew for the Grimes and the Atlanta group, and they didn’t like him.
@@revilno Shane didn't have a family
He didn't sacrifice anything
@@ZeonEons Once Shane accepted that Rick's family were his, and his alone, he didn't have anything left. When Philip Blake accepted that his daughter was truly dead, there was nothing left. It was a full circle moment.
@@ZeonEons not in the show, but everyone has a family. Shane likely isn’t an orphan with no father, no mother, no sisters or brothers, no cousins, no uncles or aunts. He has someone he is related to that he could have saved, and he had friends he knew were alive.
A scene most people don't bring up is from season 2, after the barn had been dealt with, Shane found Carol wandering around and calmly took her and sat her down and began to wash her muddy hands. "I want you to know that I'm real sorry for your daughter....I was just trying to keep everybody safe." Carol responds with "thank you".
Shane cared about the entire group. He defended carol against Ed multiple times, he took Andrea under his wing, he trained everyone to shoot etc.
Yes, Shane did some messed up stuff, but it was clear he never acted with ill intent.
Best comment.
I think he just lost his mind
Some of the worst things people do are done with seemingly positive intentions behind them.
Well, that’s obviously not true you can’t attempted murder somebody with positive intent, but we can say his intent got more negative overtime because Lori is stupid.
He never acted with I'll intent until he tried to grape Lori. But I guess that's OK because she's just a woman 🤨
Shane didint get as much plot armor for the seasons honest he and rick should have been in seasons more together
The Dying Light music goes crazy
Shut up
Right 👏🏽
@@ryanl775 shut up
You shut up@@Dachin55555
That’s far cry 5
Shane wasnt a bad guy at heart he just wanted to do what he thought he had to do. My favorite explanation was that he adapted too quickly to the new world. I feel like the only difference between shane and what rick would become is that shane had anger issues and was to extreme about everything and toward the end he went insane, namely in his last episode where you can see it as hes losing his shit with randall and that is when shane turned into "the bad guy" and even then he wasnt really bad he was just so mentally ill.
So he thought he had to try grape Lori to survive?
@rosita3528 k that's inexcusable but he made a mistake and tried to atone for it by taking care of the group the best he could
@@MR_COWUMMM?? bye grape is not a mistake. it’s a choice. he chose to TRY to assault her. but hey wtv you say!
@glc5o it is a mistake if you are not in the right mind. He was completely shitfaced. If he was stone cold sober and did it that's a choice. Do I condone it either way? Absolutely the fuck not but he's a good man who did a bad thing while drunk
No one mentions Shane saying “lemme tell you somethin’ “ and “lemme ask u sum”
It's called a southern accent, hardly worth mentioning because everyone recognizes it.
@@craigsovilla6578 lemme tell u sum
@@borga6566*rubs head*
M'ask u somethang
@@squidly1369 ay man hershell m’ask u sum
Lori goes under the radar as a villain, she is a narcissist that manipulated and emotionally abused Shane countless times
Facts! At least Shane’s motive was at least somewhat honorable, he wanted better for Lori and Carl, but Lori just did whatever the hell she wanted 😂
incredibly inaccurate
@@rencloudx thank you for explaining, I feel like I understand more now
True and when he tried to leave the group, she guilted him into staying by using Carl, then told Rick that Shane was a danger and needed taking care of, like ??? Tf Lori?
Lori was definitely a manipulator, for sure. 👀 Everyone had flaws, but her flaws were on purpose. 😂😂
I've never considered shane a villain. He was always an antagonist. I never labeled him an antihero, he was just a dude who got fucking traumatized by life. More a cautionary tale
He was a antihero though just because he didn't choose to follow batman doesn't mean he isn't a hero he did what needed to be done.
Take the fact that his only other option was to "guide Rick an just help him" that's not a good option he would have to sit their an fight with him anyway.
Guide someone who sees your ideas your very nature as a threat? When you are right? Okay seems like a possible task remember that time you listened to anyone who told you you were wrong? Ya okay exactly.
Rick is the Tumblr snowflake that needs a safe space an Shane is an always will have been a threat to his "safe space" his ideas were always garbage an nonsense an he could speak them untill he gose blue in the face it wouldn't matter. Rick is at this point unwilling to accept the real world kinda like you Z.
Reality doesn't care about your safe space reality is what Shane can't turn away from while Rick has the ability to ignore reality an embrace his safe space dissociating from reality. An that is the real reason Shane was treated like a dog to be kicked for barking. Words don't make sense to people who are disassociated it legit is like a dog barking. An that dog got put down.
I really wish Shane was sent away rather than killed. It would've been one of the greatest story arcs if he came back seasons later as a villain. Like the leader of A group similar to the claimers Darrell ended up with.
I always thought in Shanes earlier conversations with Lori that he did make a lot of sense, just wanting to talk and being told to go away and leave the whole family alone is just harsh and doesnt alllow anyone to heal, its childish from lori and very mature from shane until he just snaps basically
Never really thought about how Shane could’ve probably been saved had they let him father Judith. Very good point.
I did find it really messed up how Rick told Shane that it will be his child when he knew it was Shane's child Lori was carrying Negan is right Rick is indeed a selfish prick and a hypocrite like begging Hershel to let them stay on the farm when Hershel clearly wanted them gone yet early in season 2 running off Tyreese, Sasha, the dude and his kid from the prison.
Same with Lori saying to Shane even if it is his kid it won't be and he will not allowed to be a father to the child
@@lumpencelt3318 i feel like that's still fair tho at that point she was genuinely scared of him if i was in her position id do the same it's the apocalypse it's not like they can do a custody battle she didn't feel safe around him so why would she want him to father her child yk
I don't understand how that even happens. Lori and Rick are married, and Lori gives birth but lets Shane be the father? Maybe that works in bizarro world but otherwise that would never ever work as long as humans are humans. Unless I'm misunderstanding something.
@@honeybee6606 Right. Like the dude literally tried to s*xually assault her, I think it’s valid for her to not want him around her while she’s pregnant, her family, or the group as a whole. The dude proved time and time again that he was unstable, that he would push people’s boundaries if he disagreed with them, and that he was willing to do “whatever it takes” - that is, whatever *he* thought it took - to get what he wanted, even at the expense of others’ desires or even lives.
He’s not an entirely horrible person, he is a complex and interesting character, but everyone paints lori as a bad guy when her feelings are just as - if not more - valid than his are in this scenario.
Shane was a literal product of the times by Robert Kirkman. Kirkman was new on the scene with fresh amazing ideas and writing that played off so well on the screen. The first 3-5 seasons of this show were so impactful because of how much was covered and how well it was done. For better understanding, we as the audience were able to watch our large diverse group of people that come and go be fleshed out full characters all while getting through multiple different villains, groups, and survival complications in general. Once Negan was introduced to the show, even with being an amazing actor and character, everything became repetitive with never any real payoff. Thats why Shane feels so memorable in the overall story, him along with the series in general were peaking.
I think less on Kirkman more of frank darabont’s influence
Shane we only got 2 seasons of Shame.
Rick was even willing to give Shane a chance to just leave Carl and Lori to him, despite all he had already done. He understood that Shane thought he was dead and so did Lori. The fact that he was able to not only keep himself composed knowing that, but also give Shane another chance because he loved him as his best friend, shows that he was a better leader than Shane. However I do have to say this one thing, Shane was 100% right about Randal. Killing him would have ensured their safety. If Rick had wanted to give Randal a chance to prove himself an ally, that's one thing...let him live in the barn until he can prove he was trustworthy and useful. But he wanted to let him go...that's just the worst possible thing you could do.
rick just had a conflict within himself as a parent when carl wanted randal to die, ig rick wanted carl to be a child for a little more and its a main thing that stopped him
This guy is seriously down playing Lori's role in wanting Shane to get rid of Rick at the end of Season 2
Lori was a horrible person tbh she escapes so much responsibility for everything
I love Shane heck he is one of my favorite characters and this is how I have always thought but I wasn’t sure if I was right. I feel Lori led him on too much. Also he tried to get Otis to sacrifice him but Otis wouldn’t so it was either 3 people dead(Carl too) or one person dead and Shane chose correct even if it was wrong to do. Sometimes the correct thing isn’t always the right thing to do. Shane is one of the most complex characters and deserves more love. Top three in my book. Lemme tell you sumthin they in the woooooooods man.
Am i the only one who thinks that Shane didn't wanna kill Rick at the end? He provoked Rick multiples times and had enough time to kill him but he didn't. I think he realised that he couldn't lead the group anymore and trusted Rick to be the one to do it. Therefore killing his best friend in order for Rick to change and be the good leader and protecter of the group and his family.
So apparently that scene was rewritten. What was supposed to happen was Rick was to kill Shane and when he turned into a walker, Rick was supposed to use Shane’s gun but Shane didn’t put bullets in it. Shane wanted to push him and he had no plan on killing Rick.
@Shay-jg7uk exactly. Confirmed by the interview of John berthal himself.
Yea part of me thinks that Shane wanted Rick to shoot him so he could finally be the guy he needed to be in the new world
I see that too. Shane just adapted too quickly and everyone wasn’t ready for that yet 🥲
"I know what kind of man you are."
Shane would've made a model savior.
i feel like he would do good in a group like the saviours but i don’t think he could go along with all the “rules” since he tended to speak his mind and if he pulled something off so reckless like ripping the barn open while Negan was in charge i don’t think he would last long I would of loved to see Rick meet him again like the Morales scene if he decided to leave the farm instead of dying there
Tv Shane is one of my favorite characters ever from anything. So happy they fleshed him out in the show as he was barely in the comics
Shane compromised his position of leadership when he decided not to assist the group on a trip into Atlanta. On a surface level, Shane was right that it wasn't worth risking all their lives for Merle and some guns, but it was the moment everyone shifted their allegiance towards Rick.
Rick was willing to risk his life to save Merle, and it was that act of selflessness that built trust and loyalty. Rick continued acting this way consistently throughout both seasons. So, it seemed like no matter what Shane would say or do, or how right he was, which was often, he just came off as a total prick that couldn't win the loyalty of the group. Every time he was given a chance to help someone, he would have the mentality of leaving them behind. He made an exception to help Carl, but he botched that by murdering Otis.
I sympathize with Shane, but I also see how Rick was ultimately the right choice to lead moving forward. If nothing else, Shane was used as the tool in helping harden Rick into the person he needs to become in order to survive. Shane was the first bump in the road in what would eventually turn a whole lot worse as time progresses.
True, but the first seasons of Rick he was still a Pacifict and could hardly adapt to the new world. While Shane adapted to the new world a lot quicker and made mostly the right calls as a leader.
@@yeager1234but he did, he killed those two men in that bar, bc it was necessary, he clearly wasn’t soft or a pacifist
@Idk98268 yeah only if it was necessary. So out of self defense.
@@yeager1234 that’s how it should be
@@Idk98268 yeah he still had his cops experience. That's what's he learned from being a cop. Not from the apocalypse. In Season 3/4/5 he learned how to behave in the apocalypse
Dying Light and Far Cry 5 music??? Bro was cooking 🔥🔥
was looking for this
Those moments from lori around minute 10:00 are so contradictory man. All of this could have been avoited if they talked like adults :( i love this story and your analisis ❤
Yah this is so heavily her fault lol
Love how despite Shane completely losing his mind,willing to do whatever it takes to protect Lori and Carl, he still couldn’t bring himself to kill Rick, he could’ve just shot him straight away,but he kept delaying the moment,asking for Rick’s gun even tho he didn’t need it at all,gave Rick multiple chances to do something.I still believe that if Rick didn’t stab him Shane would’ve lowered his gun
I get your point, but in hindsight, when your life is threatened by someone that you see everyday, it becomes “it’s either me or him”
@@ryanl775 yeah Rick just couldn’t take the risk
he did start lowering his gun
That’s a way I never really looked at it. Shane KNEW what it took to survive more so than Rick but he didn’t HAVE what it took to survive and he let selfish desires drive him off the deep end. I gotta say I been binging your twd vids and they’re really good! Great video man
I noticed while rewatching the first two season of the show I noticed that in the second to last episode of season two where Lori apologizes and realizes Shane’s feelings were valid and so were hers there was a glimmer of hope for Shane. He was willing to let everything go since he got the closure that he needed from Lori, he later went out of his way to tell Rick he should really check in on HIS son but by this point Shane had drove in his philosophy and message so damn far into Rick’s head that Rick was already to untrusting of Shane and was already becoming like Shane that he started being argumentative over his family. This lead to Shane no longer being able to love peacefully with Rick anymore. I firmly believe Shane was right to act the way he did, Considering the circumstances but in the end it was his fault for being so ahead of the curve that it ruined every friendship he had
The Lori situation is a perfect example of tragic irony. Shane thought that he was the guy to protect her. Lori ends up dying during childbirth, the birth of Shane’s child. Shane inadvertently killed Lori because of his obsession with her. If he never impregnated Lori, she may have survived far further into the series.
And in a sense Lori killed Shane too. With her constant mind games, she drove the guy nuts. The first 2 seasons of this show are a storytelling masterpiece.
Top tier comment.
@@TheRealCaptainGold Thanks man, keep up the good work
If Shane lived until prison arc, he wouldve executed the prisoners on spot, thus not allowing that guy to trigger the alarm and cause panic.
So she wouldnt have died as a result of it.
You wanna say we should thank shane even more for cutting our time short with lori?
Shane understood that world before anyone else. But, if he had lived, he may have become a Negan.
I finished rewatching season 2 a few days ago and I was thinking about a vid made by you about Shane, amazing. Love your TWD content
Something that stood out to me was Shanes reaction to Dales death. Shane was genuinely shocked and disturbed at the scene. He was just freaking out and could barely bring himself to look at Dale. Like you said he was unable to live with doing what had to be done by putting the man he feuded with out of his misery, so Darryl did it instead.
In their own ways both Dale and Shane were unable to adapt to the new world, and it took a toll on both of them. I think they genuinely could have been at least cordial friends if they both got their acts together, we even see they were capable of something like this prior to the later half of season two.
This is a great video and thank you for making it.
There’s more than meets the eye to Shane who is often written off as a deranged villan or the apex chad of survival that played 5d meta chess.
He was a clever, pragmatic survivor and capable leader that meant well when it came to protecting the group but could and often was an obsessive hot head when people refused to listen.
He was his own worst enemy under stress as Rick mentioned to Herschel and Andrea.
For better or worse I saw a lot of myself in this character and think if people take an honest look at themselves they may find more similarities to Shane than they’d care to admit.
If I can make an analogy: Rick is classic Spider-Man , Shane after Rick returns and the majority of season 1 is like black suit Spider-Man with the Symbiote, not worlds apart from being a classic protagonist but clearly more aggressive with a no nonsense attitude in his judgments. He teeters back an fourth a bit in season 2 - struggling with his inner demons much like Spider-Man did but he ultimately gave in to becoming venom, a dark mirror foil of his former best friend in his last couple of episodes
If only Rick told Shane and Otis about the blood camouflage trick they could've just walked in there and got the supplies for Carl
Shane was the Boromir of TWDU.
Great Video! You should probably make a video on why Lori was so disliked by fans. She is indirectly responsible for how he reacted. How she used his unborn child to keep her family together was terrible!!
True
Please keep doing these walking dead videos, they’re so good
Shane was right, Rick couldn't keep them safe
Shane was everything he was supposed to be in the new world but he was way ahead of his time. Ppl still had their morals and souls and hadn’t adjusted yet to the world but Shane adjusted immediately. He’s definitely a villain but I believe he would’ve survived if it wasn’t for Lori. I stick by that till this day.
You and me both
"I'm gonna simp for a used up woman and another man's kid"
Quite ahead of his time indeed
Keep up the great work! I knew the actor who played shane was gonna do more great things, he really sold the character more than any other from season one besides Daryls brother, i forget his name at the moment, he also played his chatacter very well!
I think Shane was accepting things until Lori felt the need to alleviate her own guilt for how she treated him and had him come off the ladder to talk to him. He wanted her and fatherhood more than ever after that so-called vulnerability she displayed. Soon after he attempted to kill Rick
Man that frycry5 music played at the end puts me in my feels every time. Great a analysis, shane propelled the group to where they need to be in terms of combat, levels of trust, finding a strong hold to call home, and then pushed rick to be the leader he needed to be to survive.
Awesome video. Shane is certainly one of the best written characters in, not just the TV series, but the franchise as a whole.
Question, how would you have handled the Randall situation? Personally, I would've gone with Maggie's suggestion to keep him prisoner because I think his group would've found the farm regardless, and it would be better to have some sort of bargaining chip. Daryl's critique of this suggestion was that Randall would just be another mouth to feed, but my counterargument would be to just starve Randall rather than give him the same amount of food everyone else gets (Lori's idea to rashen better should also help this suggestion alot).
I’m making a video on that currently. Might be out in one to two weeks. (It’s on the production line)
Yeah. Shane was done extremely dirty by lori. Yeah i understand her wanting to end that relationship once rick got back, and even understand her wanting him to step back a little and not try and act like he was Carls father, but she shoulda pulled both rick and shane into a private room and explained that she knew this baby was shanes and so she was gonna let shane take the role of father to it and rick was gonna have to remain a uncle like figure to her, just like shane had to take a step back and take on the uncle role again after acting as a father figure to carl for those few months they thought rick was dead.
I dont think she is vile like some uber lori haters for her getting with shane in the first place though, thats just a logical conclusion to the situation they were in, shane decided to make sure his brothers family survived and in the process fell deeply for lori, and lori fell for her hero and protector Shane the same way. Its just how she went about ending it and the whole trying to stop him from getting a chance to be in his soon to be born kids life, that is what rubbed me wrong.
the dying light theme was icing on the cake well done
I noticed you used the far cry 5 sound track. As beautiful as the far cry 5 soundtrack is I always found is a bit creepy almost like a cult trying to lure you in with some heart warning and welcoming music which is perfect for the games plot. So even in the home screen when that song played it always gave me a feeling of unease
Laurie was extremely flippant with the way she treated Shane
She could’ve shown compassion, but chose not to
He asked her if she meant it when she asked him to stay?
She probably didn’t even even remember saying it
Lori was so damn annoying, she really ruined shane
Man the first several seasons of this show were so good.
Thanks for the trip down memory lane. I haven’t watched this show since 2013 but this reminded me of how well these character were portrayed
" Let me tell you something about Hew-mons, Nephew. They're a wonderful, friendly people, as long as their bellies are full and their holosuites are working. But take away their creature comforts, deprive them of food, sleep, sonic showers, put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time and those same friendly, intelligent, wonderful people... will become as nasty and as violent as the most bloodthirsty Klingon. You don't believe me? Look at those faces. Look in their eyes." -Quark. Even hundreds of years into the future humanity never changes
Using the Dying Light soundtrack while talking about The Walking Dead. Peak 🙏🏻
Lori was the real villain of those seasons
Shane tries to grape Lori.... "omg Lori is so evil" weirdo
Dude basically got manipulated and played like a harp whenever Lori needed him and threw him out a piece of trash when she was done over and over . Shane just went bonkers in the end, no right in wut he did but shit
11 seconds in and hearing the Dying Light theme in the background really hits me hard.
Good stuff man
Ngl Lori is one of the biggest reasons why Shane is the way he is, they both were at fault and she blamed him for it and continuously gaslighted him. how was he supposed to know Rick would survive that shi(regardless that doesn’t justify the actions to sleep with your bros wife bc he’s “dead”)
I’d really like to see more walking dead character deep dives like this one, I feel like I understand Shane’s character way more now & this was a different perspective than what most say about Shane.
randomly came across this video, and I think you did a great job with it. you hear a lot of people say that Shane was built for the apocalypse, but you addressed an interesting angle in saying that in reality he couldn’t cope with it.
I remember hearing about an original script, where, when Rick kills Shane, he tries to use Shane’s gun to put him down when he reanimates, but it was empty - meaning that Shane never really meant to kill Rick, and just wanted to trick Rick into killing him because he couldn’t do it himself
This is a fantastic character breakdown. I felt Shane's struggle. JB was phenomenal in his portrayal.
People always forget that Shane’s gun wasn’t even loaded. He went into that fight wanting to die.
That’s not true. That’s what Jon and Andrew wanted for the story - not what actually went down with filming.
The gun literally goes off during Shanes death scene. However I do believe in that scene Shane wanted Rick to kill him.
Wasn't that in the comic? Or am I misremembering
@@metaphysicalparadoxnope wasn’t in the comics the actor WANTED this ending Shane was killed similarly to how the show did it in the comics just much earlier
@OboSoCool ah OK, would've been a better ending
10k subs is crazy work for your production quality. Grind time baby. GRIND TIMEEEEE
Even in the end I feel like Shane was trying to show Rick how the new world is. Shane understood the complexity of the situation, him and Lori being together, Rick unexpectedly comes back in the picture, Lori ends up pregnant with Shane's baby. Rick becomes the leader of the group. Now Shane was glad to have his friend back and didn't mind following Rick's lead however Rick and the group had yet to adapt in the Apocalyptic world they we're in. Throughout most of the second season you see Shane constantly trying to convince Rick the reality of it all. In the end, he was pretty far gone but his final mindset was "Rick if you're not going to step up to the plate for the group and your family/my family then I will."
I love how you used dying light soundtrack
I LOVE that you’re using the dying light soundtrack
Great video as always. Maybe next vid about " what if Glenn never died " or sth. Anyway, love your conctent bro, keep it up < 3
Shane was just ahead of curve, he was my favorite character, and I thought every decision he made was totally logical maybe not socially conscious but it does beg the question of how he would have approached the major problems in the future if he hadn't been smoked.
You earned a subscription from me. Always found Bernthal's portrayal to be Incredible. Every step along his narrative path, I UNDERSTOOD where Shane was coming from. It was logical. In that insane world with unknowable pressures, he reacted like a human would, at every step.
Finally someone bravely described the character of Shane. And this description is accurate, the arguments and the assigned fragments. Finally, everyone who hates Shane should not immediately think of him as an envious person - but will start to think what is wrong. "Why did this happen?"
Props to you this is the best shane analysis ive ever seen. You hit the nail on its head.
You summed him up well.Always loved shane! He was so often right and knew what had to be done but he was not able to shoulder that burden. Especially when both Lorrie and Rick try to remove him from Judith. I raged at Rick to just acknowledge Shane had some claim to Judith who knows maybe that would have been enough. Poor Shane. He likely would have been a 'great' dad in an apocalypse but everything was taken from him and he was right that rick was too weak then. There is a reason he suicided by cop. Fantastically done character who buckles under the weight and superbly acted by Jon Bernthal!
people forget that Shane assaulted Lori at the cdc. And he didn’t seem to care. Shane was a villain. His obsession with her was his worst trait
She asked for it.
@@bowieupland6112 okay dude
I wouldn't really call that assault he was trying to see if there was any feelings left in a sexual way and he did stop when he realized she was serious.. If Shane really was trying to assault her then he would have. A few scratches wouldn't have been enough to stop him imo
@@renton2659
Simp.
@@McSkippy374 Re-watch the episode man idk how you can interpret it any other way. She shouldn't have to be forced to fight back like that to stop him. She says stop multiple times and he didn't listen so she defends herself. That's textbook S Assault. The scene was written that way to show you how Shane really is. I know its fictional but your interpretation of that scene is concerning to me
The dying light music in the background is an awesome touch
Lori made Shane a villain, if she didn't bounce back and forth and just set it straight they were done but they could co parent Judith, he wouldnt have hated Rick so much and they would probably have been unstoppable.
Wrong. Shane was a villain from the start screwing his supposed best friend's wife while he was in a coma after lying to her by saying he was dead.
@@Drums_of_LiberationShane thought Rick was dead
Nope. It's a pretty easy excuse for a fan of Shane's character to say "he was just pushed! He was never unstable" but think of most characters in his position. They would NOT have done that. There was definitely something wrong with his mind and his bullshit would get someone killed eventually.
@@MachinaOwl I only agree on the part about him thinking Rick is dead. I don't agree on what Shane dose.
The use of the 28 weeks later and far cry 5 music is very nice
Sloppy seconds will get you killed.... two farmers daughters and he's whipped over USED
…I mean, one of those daughters is a teenager my dude
@@Sauce_Sensei Age of consent in Georgia pre-Fall was 16. After the Fall, all bets are off.
@@Sauce_Sensei ahhhh, Beth was plenty old enough in apocalypse years
He still got the other blonde. Andrea. Lol
Lori's Emotional Swings Definitely Messed Up Shane. Good Video!
God I miss the early days of this show. Even just life around the time twd came out was amazing for me.
I don't understand how no one talks about the cdc scene with Shane and Lori 🤦
yep… they love to conveniently forget that
Damn yeah I completely forgot about that
It was a mistake, thats it nothing more or else
@@d0u796Stop calling it a mistake when sexual assault is not a mistake
@@shep6489bro was severely drunk
That dying light theme hits different!❤️❤️❤️
I really really think everyone forgets what he did to Lori in the cdc. And how early that is in the show. "If shane had lived to meet negan-" but he didnt. Shane was an adult man who consciously and consistently made decisions that would only benefit him or would intentionally harm others. Shane was willing to kill rick, even early on. He was willing to hurt people, even early on. His reaction to Rick returning and Lori changing her mind about him (BY THE WAY. AS SHE SHOULD? Her 'dead' husband just showed up out of nowhere, after his best friend told her he was dead for certain.) was to be an asshole to Carl? And to try to socially shoulder check Rick? Everyone praises him for being strong enough to open the barn, but Rick is the one who put Sophia down.
It's been awhile since I've seen this show, But I remember distinctly understanding his character. I knew he was far gone, But I understood him. I think I even realized he wanted to die, Which is why he got close to allow rick to kill him.
One thing you didn't touch on is the argument than Shane would have been a good leader. Shane didn't care about the group, he only cared about Lori and Carl. In S2E5 he said to Lori "The only thing I care about now in this world is you and Carl. So I apologize if I appear to be insensitive to the needs of others, but you see I'll do whatever it takes to keep the two of you safe." Shane wouldn't take risks for others in the group, he wouldn't even attempt to help the 6 members of his group stuck at the department store in S1, he wanted to give up looking for Sophia, he sacrificed Otis, he didn't put any value on other members of the group..... Rick did, he went after Glenn when he was captured by G in the retirement home, he went in to rescue Glenn and Maggie at Woodbury, he went to find Herschel after the barn scene (which Shane was against doing) Rick valued the group as a whole.... in S3E15 Rick says to the group "I couldn't sacrifice one of us for the greater good because WE ARE the greater good... We're the reason we're still here, not me." Rick realized that while he was the leader it was the entire group's efforts that helped them stay alive. Shane didn't get that, so in my opinion Shane would NOT have made a good leader because of his lack of value he put on the group as a whole. Rick helped create loyalty among the group where they took risks to defended each other and that is what made them strong.
Shane was a sign of the times. Thats why he himself could recognise what needed to be done but couldn't do it himself. He was a lesson for the survivors that they had to kill but it wouldn't be scott free. It will slowly take its toll making you go mad. Almost everyone of our survivors went mad in some sort of way and came out the other side stronger for it. Shane was the first but he didn't come out the other side. He was a lesson teacher to the rest, and true to the shows fashion, when someone is done teaching the survivors a lession they die. Completing the cycle.
You are the second person I've heard share this take with me, the first being my dad. When the series was airing, the two of us both agreed that Shane's downfall was MOSTLY Lori's fault. The second Rick came back into the picture, she wanted to ghost Shane: No talking to her, no talking to Carl, thanks for everything you did for us now fuck off.
Fast forward, there's the matter with Judith. It's yours, Shane, but if you think you get to raise her? Tough shit -- she's going to be Rick's daughter.
Then she goes back and forth on being nice to him, to being a bitch, and like you said Shane didn't trust Rick to have what it took to keep her safe, and while it doesn't excuse how he turned out, it does help paint a picture of WHY he turned out like that. I am 100% confident that Shane would have let Rick step back into the picture, so long as Lori didn't forbid him from interacting with Carol, accepted that he was Judith's dad and let him play that role, and didn't just outright tell him to fuck off whenever it came to Rick.
He may have ended up butting heads with Rick, but I don't think he would have tried to shoot him, and by the time the Prison came around, I think Shane would have started seeing Rick as more able -- at least for a while -- of keeping Carl safe. Don't know how he would have reacted to Lori's death, honestly, but if he didn't lose his shit there I think Judith would have kept him going.