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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ก.ค. 2024
- Patreon: / tony4you
Twitter: Tony4YouYT
#smt #persona #atlus
0:00 Intro
1:04 Philemon Biblical
5:38 Jungian Psychology
9:06 Philemon Archetypal
10:55 Philemon in SMT
12:53 Outro
Video edited by @petrock4041
Jungian psychology is among the most interesting subjects to discuss and learn about, at least for me. Though the concepts can get pretty out there, The study of archetypes, personas, and tarot cards, fit so well into the world of shin megami tensei and persona that I just had to make a video on it. Though Persona lore is in the title, it's very much still a part of the SMT Lore series I have on the Tony4You channel and I am very excited to finally talk about it. Philemon has always been an incredibly interesting character since the very first persona game's release on the playstation 1. It took me a long time to fully wrap my head around the figure, but I managed to get everything I wanted to talk about widdled down to a manageable size. I hope you all enjoy this episode of smt lore or rather persona lore. When it comes to the persona series, the character Philemon is debatably the most important. He played a massive role in the first 3 entries in the series and despite him not appearing much since, he still remains integral to the overarching narrative and themes of the games. In spite of Philemon’s importance you’d be forgiven for not thinking his inclusion was particularly noteworthy, not to mention that what he’s based on isn’t exactly common knowledge. Shin Megami Tensei and Persona are known for their demons sure, but they are equally known for their complex and adult themes pertaining to the psychology of the characters. With the series tackling these themes as a whole incredibly well, it’s no surprise they did their research in the field. So let’s shed some light on this interesting character and learn a little bit about psychology while we’re at it. Without any further ado, let’s talk about Philemon, the wise spirit guide. - เกม
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Leave any thoughts and suggestions for future videos here!
Me? Simple Man.
Me like lore.
Me dislike tier list.
Me-a-really like that one video about the "law alignment" problem even if your sicking law bias glows throughout it.
So woah you go big guy!
You want a real deep dive? In Devil Summoner, there's a demon called Orgone Ghost. Orgone energy is an insane theory from Wilhelm Reich in the 1930s that people still believe in today. You can easily search diagrams and guides on building orgone energy accumulators, and they're all crazy. Sounds right up your alley!
Edit: I haven't looked into orgone energy in over a decade. I had no idea it had the interest that it does these days! Mr. Tachyon has some startling research on it. Worth a look, but maybe don't go too deep on this one...🙃
Philemon was such an interesting character. He really got cut short by not appearing post p2. Just in case anyone mentions it I do know about the butterfly btw.
Butterfly feels like a checkmark to appease the longtime fans than actually acknowledging his existence post p2
I got the vibe that Philemon and Nyarlathotep were both primordial forces that wouldn't return unless the other one did.
So if he made a come back that'd be pretty bad.
My favorite fan theory says that the events of each game are their moves against one another in a cosmic battle for the heart, soul, and mind of the people.
@@Barquevious_Jackson Well its been a while since I last played but Philemon was in P1 right? Nylarlethotep had nothing to do with the P1 plot iirc.
@@projectmessiah Lmao. When you say that it makes it sound like Philemon was the aggressor, or at least the first actor between the two. Kind of makes you wonder all sorts of things.
@@projectmessiah Nylartethotep is the persona of the antagonist of main route and take control of his users after you beat him
Persona 3 to 5: to get power you must be lucky enough to have a persona, even more lucky to be have a Wild Card
Philemon:"Bro what's your name?"
“Smellvi- FUCK”
Anyone has the potential of having one right?, if everyone has a Shadow anyone can turn that Shadow into a Persona, anyone has the power but few can gain control to it.
@@alexisbaz8746 not in Persona 3, or u need to do drugs to get one
@@firebeam24 that’s probably because the dark hour was man made, not created by a god.
@@alexisbaz8746 Yes that is correct, you can't have one without the other in Jungian psychology. Personas in the game are kind of what happens once the Shadow and Persona achieve some sort of perfect harmony.
That said, later Persona games tend to emphasize people's willpower. If you don't have the strength of character to dominate your Self, the will and determination to face death/survive, or a rebellious spirit, you won't really find yourself manifesting the power.
It somewhat makes sense as based on the original theory, Archetypes rise from the Collective Unconscious and take shape based on the environment within the Personal Unconscious. And not everyone is mentally capable or willing to square up with a demon, lol.
In the name of YHVH I really want Philemon to be a SMT Demon, a neutral good spirit type demon that guides the souls to be the better versions of themselves.
I wonder what purpose his skill pool could serve
Maybe a level 88+ counter to the soul hacker's nyarly?
That would be awesome, especially since Nyarlathotep is a demon as well
@@ArshadZahid_nohandleideas possibly a very high level support type demon with luster candy, reflect spells, healing and revival.
Can't be. Philemon is the reason the majority of demons exist. You can't control like you control him a demon/Persona. No one can.
Seeing the glowing butterfly fluttering around the characters of the Persona games always give me this hopeful feeling that even in his diminished state, Philemon is always watching over them.
I find it interesting that despite having very different origins for Philemon and Nyarlathotep, Atlus decided to pit both Jung and Lovecraft's creations against each other - each becoming representations of the collective unconscious, trapped in a never ending cycle to see which ultimately one comes out top: humanity's destructive potential or the capacity to find a higher purpose.
I don't know what Jung was smoking, but it must have been some really good shit since it inspired like 90% jrpgs and the most surreal stuff one could imagine
Smoking on that Jungian Pack. I would like some too
I think that was part of the problem, that the man wasn't smoking anything. Bro was an unmedicated mad genius 😂
I can also see why some people consider him more of a, spiritual/philosophical scholar by todays standards. The man was really cooking
not everything he smoked was good. Had some bad takes on race stuff. But, outside of that? Yeah
While Philemon might not appear beyond the three games he is in you can see some of his influence. For example the phrase "I am you, you are me.", is in every persona game one way or another. I personally think that if they ever need a dream guide again for any game he'll make an appearance. I guess it depends on the setting or theme of the game. The irony though is that he almost fits better for SMT than Persona. The connection to Persona is quite obvious but if we think about SMT and how it's actually the world we live in that's decimated and horrible to live in, wouldn't that take a toll on ones psyche? Enter Philemon whenever you rest. If there was ever a need for a guide it would be in a post apocalypse where the devil and god are real and want you and your whole species subservient or dead.
I audibly said “this guy really pulled a “I am thou, thou art I” on us.”
philemon's my favorite digimon.
Shoutouts to Agumon and Philemon, top tier digimon
The file Digimon
I find incredibly powerful observers that indirectly assist the protagonists so cool and I don't know why
Thanks so much Tony for this video! I had no idea the origins of Philemon were Christian. It was the mythology and the eternal battle between Philemon and Nyarlathotep that drew me to the Persona and then SMT series. It makes a lot more sense why he's a "guide" while the other is one who can personally intervene in human affairs.
In my research I noticed no one even mentioned Philemon from biblical canon, so I had to make this video! Glad people are enjoying it!
Me saving at a P4 butterfly: I am still here, Philemon...
To my knowledge, he is the only character the MC of any game has canonically punched in the face.
You know I feel like that should be wrong, but I think you're right lol
@@Tony4Youdidn't Makoto fight 3 guys during Yukari's social link, he must have punched at least one face in that fight
Joker punches the Secret Villain in the face 3 times as well.
@@mystrenula3911 And now in reload him and Akihiko tag team to take out 20 dudes. Man has to have punched at least SOMEONE in the face by now.
You mean puch god lol
Clicked instantly when I saw the topic. Philemon is such an incredibly interesting character, and I love the layers upon layers of symbolism used in Persona and in Jungian psychology.
every time anyone quotes these deep cuts of Jung I'm just astounded there's still people who don't regard him as a mystic first and foremost. doing otherwise doesn't even help us understand his work in the first place... anyway great vid
Couldn't agree more, thanks for watching and enjoying!
Oh my YHVH Philemon is my favorite Persona character and I thank you humbly Tony4You I wanted a episode like that for ages!
The inspiration appeared to me in a dream!
@@Tony4You Were you a butterfly?
This video is wonderful! Philemon was always such a fascinating character to me, and hearing more about him just made me appreciate his character even more.
Hey thanks a lot! I was especially excited for this video
i started my persona journey with p4 golden, and learning more about the demons and other characters like philemon is so cool, definitely something i want to learn more and more about
I have a feeling he'll return in some fashion.
We almost got nyarlthotep in P5R. We could get something similar to Philemon in the next game
Back when I was young, I somehow initially thought "philemon"...was some kind of digimon, because of the "-mon" moniker at the end
Yeah
I'm not a Persona fan, but Philemon is *THE* badass of the series. Such a misfortune we never got to see him in flesh after P2. (Little blue butterfly doesn't count)
Then again, in P6 maybe!.. when we would have to rip our foreskin to summon the persona.
Joke is on you, those who were circumcised have permanently summoned personas! No pain all gain.
@@dragoneye6229, "sometimes I _summon_ so hard, I rip the skin"
(a) p6 protagonist
@@jasonblundelldobebussing HAHAHA I GOT THE REFERENCE BROTHER Hoooly 😂
If ATLUS can beg the original persona creator to return, maybe lol
Ptolemy: (drops Tablet) ...like I haven't heard THAT ONE before... (Tablet floats back to hand, turns on to Persona card BG) Back to subject...
This was so impressive. The amount of research you did and the quality of your presentation is better than just about every college course I've taken. I know praise makes you feel uncomfortable, but you've earned it. Keep up the good work!
Really appreciate the kind words! This is a passion project so it does mean the world to see a good amount of people enjoying and learning from it. Always happy to see you in the comments!
Thank you so much Tony for delving deeper into Jung. The Red book is highly important for Jung, and helped him get sane. This is wonderful.
The character that's forever a reminder of just how much love went into that original trilogy and its concepts
My favorite part was when Carl Jung did a heccin schizophrenia
Same! I'm thinking of doing it myself one of these days
This might be one of your best videos Tony, how about a few more videos exploring this concep about the reocurring themes across all of history. I dunno but i love that part in particulary.
2:20 this is why Roman mithology has so many gods from all over the Europe, instead of oppressing the countries that they conquered, they absorbed them and used them to they’re advantage. That’s why slaves where treated in a more human way, and at that time it was the best you could ever ask.
Btw, I have finally discovered the meaning of you’re pfp, and it’s honestly fits you well. Though, I hope you don’t see that as a trap 😉, because you’re content is rare and fire, the one that I honestly dig into it
Very true, it's the main reason people are still obsessed with them to this day, myself included!
Also it's always funny when people realize what my pfp is haha. I really appreciate the kind words
@@Tony4You no problo, you deserve it all.
But yeah, that’s why here in Italy there is a ton of stuff from all over the world. If you go south, form the islands to the heel, for example you can find Arabian architecture, where as in the north, but pretty much in general, you can find Greek related things. The very concept of Rome and how it was built was a constant absorb an learn process. That’s why they thrived for so long, and made such an impact
Great video. Though, one note: it's theologians not theologists (from a theologian who has degrees in this haha). You actually nailed the culture of Rome well, and why Paul's letter is so significant. Certainly not an accident that Persona uses this imagery for their series (which is a video game series I love).
Much of Paul's writing was incredibly counter cultural at the time, and even challenges us today.
Hey thanks a lot, especially from someone with credentials lol. I will definitely endeavor to fix the Theologians thing too lol
Can't believe Philemon said "Yea, brother"
Wildest shit i ever heard from him
Distant relative to Hulk Hogan
I love your videos and you can notice the effort. Keep going mate.
A certified tony4u classic
Legend
Just the video I was looking for thanks
Wow, this video really helped me understand more about Philemon and his role in the Persona series! I've always been intrigued by his character and this explanation was so clear and easy to follow. The way the video dives into the biblical origins and connects them to the game's lore is just brilliant. Thank you for making this, it's definitely a must-watch for any Persona fan!
a good video to watch after work, nice.
Hey I finally have a clue what that guy from the beginning of jerome's dream's "seeing means more than safety" was talking about... Impossible to tell under all that guitar feedback anyways. This is a really great video, I'm probably gonna go read the interview they sampled that from, this is some crazy interesting stuff.
very insightful, yet I was surprised there was no mention of the blue butterfly in Persona 3 and 4 or the butterfly motif, which I'm assuming is based on the Butterfly Dream.
oh dang that persona 4 comic @ 0:35 is bringing back memories
This makes me want videos on the other guides and helpers of the persona games. Like why exactly does each protagonist get a different velvet room attendant? What is it they offer to the protagonist besides wielding the compendium and why do each of them seem to yern to understand humanity more? That's not even covering the velvet room helpers from p1 and both p2 games. Like the singer and artist. Im sure you'll get to them eventually Tony and I cannot wait.
"it makes sense why Igor and the Velvet Room attendants speak of him with such reverance"
well, I mean, he did create most of them Velvet Room included, Igor is a doll given life by him, the attendants are essentially fragments of him being, as I understand, and explained by the creators, the only exception to this rule of all inhabitants of the Velvet Room been created by Philemon are Nameless and Diva, as they are originally neutral forces themselves that decided to support Philemon, thus to signify the safety of the Velvet Room to the MC, play and sing the "Aria of the Soul" (yes, this means that the Aria of the Soul isnt just a song in game, but something the characters actually listen to)
Nameless and Diva are not Philemon's creations? Where do you get this? I haven't read about it before
@@daviddave5092 read, I said only Nameless and Diva are the only residents in the Velvet room not created by Philemon
While I honestly prefer Stephen as the "Wise and powerful character who gives the main characters their powers" archetype, I think Philemon is also pretty cool.
It's kinda sad that he doesn't have the same role as Stephen does in Mainline SMT though, it would be nice to see him pop up more or even become an extra superboss like Stephen does in SMT 4's DLC, I know that Philemon does have a boss fight in Persona 2 but from what I know, his boss fight isn't as hard (or cool imo) as Stephen's.
Granted he was a boss in a series still in its growing days compared to stephen bringing in the big boys of all 4 protags
Stephen isn’t in every mainline SMT game, he doesn’t appear in SMT 3 and SMT 5
@@shungite8240 I never said he appears in every game
Imma be honest. I never would've expected a persona video to get biblical. Much appreciated though. For greater persona and religious knowledge
Ooohh this will be a big one🎭
Tony my goat
Thank you Soma Cruz from peak Castlevania!
So, is this what Oshino Ougi is in Monogatari series?
The "Philemon" of Koyomi Araragi
The father of Persona, everyone!
Love your content, I have to ask do you do your own editing? Or do you hire an editor. If you do your own editing, what program do you use. Thank you.
Hey thanks a lot! For this specific video I got a friend to edit, but I usually edit myself. My friend uses Adobe Premier and I use Sony Vegas. It works for my simple editing style
@Tony4You wow. Then I have a lot to learn about editing. Lol. Ty for the feedback.
Brief aside about Roman slaves; they could also be protected by law and could even own property. If a man murders a slave, he can be punished. I heard there was even a holiday where the slave and slave-owners would swap places for a day.
I love the PQ music ❤
This is why Persona 2 will always be my favorite in the series.
Really need Philemon to make a return for Persona 6
Butterfly Boy did Tatsuya dirty.
One must say, Jung was deeply flawed in his analysis of other religions, mythos, and even western ones.
For instance, his sources for alchemy were mainly based on the theosophists, who most have not read actual alchemy books and imposed their own meaning, trying to portray alchemy as a mostly psychological field.
Actual medieval european alchemy was very, very pratical, and most books include recipes on dyes, gun powder, metals, gold paint, etc, while also talking alot about God and Jesus and the importance of faith, something that the Theosophists and Jung himself seemed to have either ignored or were not aware of due to poor/bad historiography.
A lot of things in smt, 18th century mysticism, new age, etc, are the result of literal victorian era bad historiography (like vikings with horns, easter coming from ishtar while it actually came from oaster, etc).
11:14
I noticed the P3 tarot has some Bosses as cards...
1 D3ath *is A DOOR *
Another awesome video guaranteed also if you don't mind my asking when you were talking about schizophrenia was that an image of a video game and if so what was it
Danganronpa
@@2098543 cheers mate👍
This really makes me appreciate cosplaying as him more.
Everything was going well until "The Fool" moment, I forgot the rest of the video in the blink of an eye but laughed quite well.
Btw, will you cover Soul Hackers 2 or Devil Summoner: Raidou Kuzunoha, besides your manga review
I made the review of SH2 and mention Raidou a lot in misc videos. I would love to dedicate a video to Raidou specifically though one day
@@Tony4You, nah. Not a review, but an analysis on Aion of Soul Hackers 2. It's basically a collective unconscious given form.
I’ve been sort of arguing with friends about where Philemon would fit in the current SMT universe. How is he different than other Deities in the Devil Summoner/Persona world.
i will always like the headcanon/theory that Carl Joung was the very first persona user.
where did you get the western style PSX box art for Innocent Sin? Never seen that before
does anyone know the background track/song that starts around 10:55 ??
since Persona 1 take place after SMT If we can assumed that Shadow is a Demon from Expanse that still inside the school after Hazama seal the Expanse returning the school back to normal but the demon that still inside the school still around, escape lurking around in japan and instead invade the human world like any Demon in every SMT Game they possessed and Corrupting Human like what they did to Hazama and Nyarlahotep is one of the Demon/Shadow that Infected Human and disguised himself as a Persona for King Leo.
also I was Thought that Philemon is Hazama from IF since he KNOWS everything about the Persona, Demon and Demon Summoning Program that he and Tamaki Previously use and Tamaki herself make a Appearance in Persona 1 and 2 as Minor Cameo Character thus prove that SMT If is Persona 0
Igor directly says that shadows and demons are the same thing. No need to assume.
@@jackour8167 then it's confirm that the Deity Emperor is Hazama Persona.
And Since you said that Shadow, Persona and Demon are the same we can assume that Stephen does exist in Persona Universe alongside Axiom
@@joejunior5991 of course they do. Persona and SMT are the same franchise.
Hey Tony can you do a video on nyx
Hi Tony, Please will you cover Blasphemous game lore?
Here's hoping the next SMT or Persona game takes it back to it's roots with Philemon
maybe it will be forced to, now that igor's va is gone, and japan having the "if the va dies, sideline the character", so they won't be able to give most of philemon's duties to igor.
I kinda wish the lore and philosophical background of the somewhat " kid friendly" Devil Children series were based explicitly on Carl Hung's writings. With Black Book based on his black book series and Red Book based on his red book but that might"ve been too on the nose. Oh well, back to the good old Persona side series.
Wow man.
Wait is the “I am thou, thou art I” when establishing a social link a reference to Philemon?
As a Psych major...I enjoyed this episode. ^^
This is just an advertisement for the Red Book and I see through you...
I have already purchased the Red Book.
The payment went through from the book publisher, it was all worth it lol
As a psychology student i was on the fence of reading it too. Even tho i like the persona franchise, my affinities with Freud kinda gets in the way of learning more about his work tho.
You could had added, that he does appear in the later games, but in the shape of a blue butterfly. 😅
It is thursday my jungs
TRUE!
Does this mean since you talk about Philemon your gonna talk about Nyarlathotep in the following future video lore?
12:09 Understandable.
I won't stand before again...
*Lest...*
Question: does anyone know why he doesn't appear beyond butterflies in the modern games?
Probably because the antagonists in 3 and beyond aren't as big of a threat as Nyarly. Though he did give Aigis the power of Wild card in the answer.
I miss you Philliemon :(
whats the song at 4:44?
I like to think Igor just keeps helping the protagonists out of loyalty/respect for his old master Philemon, maybe hoping he'll someday come back to take the reigns again.
music at 11:55?
Philemon: Butterfly Spirit. Simple as.
Can I be a Philemon when I grow up, Dad?
Make me imagine that philemon was the father of all Persona's protagonis, while Igor / Velvet atendant baby sitting them //joke
Hey tony you decide to do nyarlathotep in the near future.
I plan to for sure
@@Tony4You Thank love your videos
Why is he not on the other persona game?
You know, the premise that leads Jung to the notion of "Colective Unconscious" could connect pretty well with Paul's Areopagus Speech. On this one, the Apostle takes advantage of the story of the "Altar to the Unknown God" to claim God has also revealed Himself to the gentiles, even if they were somewhat ignorant of Him (hence "Unknown God"). He then announces that the fulfilment of God's revelation was in Jesus and His Death and Ressurection, which gets him mocked by the locals, but still awakens interests of some.
"The Fool".
Hey.
Good videos make mor
Jeez whys the editing on this video so noticeably worse… what happened Tony come on!
Even if same person Heracles is greek name and Hercules is Roman.. Sorry if annoying about that.... Otherwise the video was really informative and cannot wait for what is next.
While being probably the most important character, even being referenced in future persona titles, at the same time ATLUS does not really care… I mean they do but like they have him appear as a butterfly only.
The only modern persona protagonist he has spoken to was Joker and even then it wasn’t in person… just in butterfly form.
Soo Philemon is something like a shadow of a human?
The good side. Nyarly representing the darkness of mankind. Igor and the velvet room attendants are servants of Philemon.
Ngl. I wont be the first neither would I be the last person who wants to see more Philemon in future titles.
If Philemon is the wise old man, who is Igor? Who are the velvet room attendants? Do they serve as any of the archetypes?
They are more like just Servants of him
i swear everyone chose to punch him in Face.
gimmick puppet disaster leo solo's all of persona
Based YGO enjoyer
I love how you say "they say slaves as humans" befor eimmediately going into how running away could get them and everyone around them tortured to death
crucifixion is one of the worst ways a human could be executed; the idea of "cruel and unusual" applying to punishment is only like a couple centuries old
Koinonia means "society".
Simple. He is you.
But you are me... 🤔
Ah yes ogs remember philemon
Philemon is the closest we'll get to a positive portrayal of God in the Megami Tensei franchise.
I don't care about his lore, I'm punching him in the gut.
There is really only one option at the end of P2 lol