LS32 Joystick Shorter Engage Mod - Will it Work?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ก.พ. 2021
- I mod my go-to shmup joystick in attempt to make the engage shorter and more precise. Will it work? Let's find out...
0:39 JLF vs Seimitsu for shmups
0:56 What kind of joystick is good for shmups?
2:06 The LS32 actuator vs oversized mod
3:01 How does the actuator work?
3:40 Tools needed for the mod
4:37 Removing that #$!&*@% LS-32 C-Clip
5:11 Testing out the oversized actuator
6:15 Cleaning the stick, applying fresh lubrication
6:43 Putting back on that #$!&*@% LS-32 C-Clip
7:52 The most important mod of all...
8:12 Is the mod even worth it?
/ neondaggergames
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Great video! Helped me make purchases regarding my own stick!
Great video
LS-62 was my favorite for a while, but I ended up with the LS-40 because the square gate allows easier diagonals, has less neutral wiggle and the shaft is longer. I play mainly NeoGeo games on Switch and PS5 in addition to a few newer titles like KOF XV and for me, Sanwa and Hayabusa SUCK for those. Trying to play any KOF with the Hayabusa was like using a broken controller and the JLF was only slightly better. I almost gave up and went back to the standard controller until I tried Seimitsu and never went back.
Ty for the video
I still prefer the ls-40, has more short throw than ls-32, uses c-clip and was the default lever for Japan neo geo cabinets.
I also have the ls-32, did annoy me the pivot popping while pressed against the gate, but after removing the gate it feels better.
Just switched over to LS-40 and yes it is overall built extremely well and feels great. I'll have a video on this soon. The pivot pop issue didn't bother me too much. I don't ride gates hard enough to notice, and for some reason the issue all but went away with some time. Both sticks are extremely good and I suspect every Seimitsu is top tier. Thanks for the comment!
I'm new to this and I don't know what the heck I'm doing, but I did manage to get a bigger acutator(?) to make a shorter engage for my JLF stick and it works better. Once I get a heavier spring I think it will be perfect.
1mm is a huge jump if you are having a problem with return to center you can increase spring tension or drop to the .5mm actuator.
1.5mm changes the profile and is something to consider with longer engage switches like Omron silents.
You're right in that the larger actuators are meant for silent switches, custom switches, or those without paddles. I really should have tried the .5mm but I'm skeptical of all of these actuators at this point. I've tried several now for different sticks and none really feel like they "belong" in the stick. Even if they don't have game-killing side effects like I had here, they tend to have a clunkier feel. I'm just not convinced they are as precision tested as the company's that make the original parts.
@@neondagger not sure precision is the right word, most of the oversized actuators have the same precision of production as the original, and infact many have more because they are machined and no molded. The change in feel is a preference thing more than a precision. All microswitches have lag between off and on, these actuators can make that more noticeable because they sit closer to that point.
Another option is to ditch the actuators all together and go with something like the Magenta for programmable precision.
Thanks for the vid. It helped with the clip. Also do you know which actuator is wider, the stock LS-32 or the kowal oversized actuator for the JLF?
The JLF Kowal is wider but the JLF has a larger distance to engage compared to LS-32. When installed, it brings the JLF to a similar engage distance as the stock LS-32, but the Kowal feels clunky and not quite right to me. Other people seem to like it though.
@@neondagger Ive used the JLF with the "shmup mod" as its called and it doesnt feel very nice to me, mostly because of the doubled resistance, but I did get some nice performance results out of it. LS-32 felt kinda average to me when I first tried it but I now have a set up where I mounted it a few mm lower than normal and switched the balltop for a bat top and I love the combination.
Btw what are your opinions on the seimitsu "popping" phenomenon?
@@wadestoss3325 I've come to find the LS-32 is sort of this average stick and that is its super-power. I've done a ridiculous amount of analysis on this lately and will talk about in the next video. Makes sense that a lower mount worked well for you. The pop: I noticed it when I first got the 32, but over time I didn't ride the gates as hard and didn't notice it as much. Eventually the pop all but went away.
Great Video indeed! What do U think about the LS-56? Im new to shmups and just modded my mayflash f500 Elite with the ls-32. Just Ordered the 56 though, cause of the shorter engage
I asked around recently about this and in my research it came down to LS-40 (tweaked LS-32), or LS-62 (tweaked LS-56) all have shorter engage/throws. I've never tried the 56 though I know it is popular. For me, always thought the LS-32 would be perfect if just slightly less throw/engage. On paper the LS-40 has the shortest engage and throw. But the shaft is slightly taller/fatter which I'll have to find workarounds for. It's coming in the mail today so will do a video on it soon to see how it goes.
@@neondagger thanks! Would like to hear your verdict on IT. I will let U know about the LS-56. Seems like everybody is reporting different experiences... 😂🤦🏻♂️
@@neondagger i have used an LS-40 with a bat top for a long time now, and i would say it is the better for shmups. have you thought about the SEIMITSU BULLET LSX-NOBI LEVER. i am personally thinking about trying it out.
@@theatlantichoneypotassocia853 I just installed the LS-40 and tried it out yesterday, replacing my LS-32. I'll have a video here very soon about my thoughts. I just heard about the NOBI lever. I think it looks interesting but I don't know much about it. One thing is for sure, Seimitsu makes amazing levers so I'm sure its very good.
Try the LS-62 with a square gate! It's pretty wild. Feels like a toy, but in a good way haha
Hey you can fix that by stuffing a washer between the clip and the actuator to press is down a bit more or shaving the edges a bit round. It only works in a jlf with square gate out of the box. But I can sum it up real quick for you. Yes it engages quicker but the stick will also not disengage like you where used to. I could not find a fitting spring to fix that. It's not like you suddenly need a 3lbs one, more like 2.3
I did resort to sanding down the edges on the actuator but it still didn't quite work. The washer trick wouldn't work here because the actuator isn't tapered like on stock JLF or LS-32. I looked around and what I figured was this: the oversized actuator is meant to be used with non-stock microswitches. So if you used JLF micros or micros without those little paddles, you'd have roughly 1mm of extra deadzone, in which case the oversize can help make up the difference. After all of that mess I can honestly say the better option is to get a shorter engage stick. The LS-40 is basically a shorter engage LS-32 so it seems to be the solution here. I'll have a video up on it soon. Thanks for the comment!
I thought I liked the ls-56 best but it takes so much force to actually actuate the switches that I went back to my ls-32.
I agree. I don't know why people like stiff spring tensions, which is why the 56 feels so hard to activate. Shmups especially are about lots of little quick movements so I don't think it's a great idea. My sense is people often use higher spring tension to compensate for the imprecise feel of having too high of a shaft height, which is incidentally the case with the 56 as well.
@@neondagger Totally agree. On top of that I'd be interested to know how good those "ls-56 is the shmup stick" guys are. I mean the best players in the world are found in Japanese arcades and most cabinets use ls-32s.
Very often it's those that like to tinker with their equipment more than putting it to use. I observed this phenomenon quite often. Like FPS gamers who meticulously research mice and sensitivity instead of practicing with the equipment at hand.
My favorite stick for those games is the LS-60
All of the Seimitsu's are great. The LS-60 design looks very similar to the Sanwa JLF, which is still very popular. Surprised I don't see it very much.
@@neondagger Thats why i picked it up. I dont see the LS-60 much either, being used or for sale at that.
original Neo Geo AES Stick had a very short throw...
About to do the same mod for my Ls-32 (Ls300 aka 2017 new version) with the PAS gold 1mm oversize actuator, but I'm also going to get a few 2lb, 3lb and 4lb seimitsu custom springs from Arcade shock!!
You may want to grab some of those for a quicker return to neutral. I'm a fighting game guy, but I have a feeling that even with the stock actuator, you might benefit your shooting games from the 2lb custom arcade shock ls-32 spring depending on preference of course.
From what I have read, some people believe the ls-32 to be a 'jack of all trades' when it comes to game types and that the LS-40 is quicker for shooters, I did want to get an LS-40 as I'd made a tribute stick to the MVS - U4 cabinet, however I believe they use the discontinued Panasonic microswitches so got the new LS32 with the omrons.
Great video!
Yeah I have trouble with stiffer springs. I tend to go for as light as possible while having a good neutral return. The LS-32 return on stock is pretty good. Much better than the JLF, for example. I'll have a video up soon on the LS-40 which is basically an LS-32 without a deadzone, and the neutral return is flawless (no deflection/wobble). The LS-32 is definitely an all-purpose while also fantastic for shooters. It came down to either replacing all my sticks with 32's or switching to the 40. Still testing but I'll have that vid up soon. Thanks for the comment!
@@neondagger nice, yeah I hear you on the LS-40 I just am waiting for it to arrive in the post.
As for a Jlf, I have a jlf with a Kowal actuator 11.8mm, 2.5 lb spring, and Otto DIY V5 pivot. if you used a short Jlf shaft with that set up and spring of your choice, I've got a feeling that would be quite good for a shooting game, almost zero deadzone and the V5 kit comes with 12,12.5 and 13mm actuator too.
But I've read a lot about the preference of shooter players, and whilst that's not my main thing, I seemed to read that a lot of people liked the LS-56 it essentially seems to be a compact version of a 40 so it's even tighter, minimal throw and engage it seems.
As for the ls32, it did have quite a bit of deadzone. also read that you can just put in jlf microswitches in even without the long arm/tab bit, I'm going to give that a go an see if the actuator works with that.
It's a long quest for the perfect setup 👌🏻
Edit: realised that the ls-40 it totally fine to use the new 2017 microswitches so all good, apparently the new 2017 seimitsu ones are slightly more activation than the panasonic/matsushita ones.
@@Ozyrus i was curious about the 2017 Ls32 model. Has it fixed the jumping pivot like the OG model? I love the LS32 as its very satisfiing hiting the switches doing dash moves for example.
@@segajcharrua it does have it but you only have it occur if the stick is already against the gate and then you intentionally press hard against it, shouldn't ever occur with good technique I've had it happen once ever by accident, the new microswitches are slightly higher activation force which is good so those will aid your dashes
@@Ozyrus thank you for the feedback! So its not worth to get the 2017 movel if i have OG model in that case right?
Which semitsu lever you recomend to mod the Qanba Drone?
Check out my video here th-cam.com/video/ghadFSmtdVU/w-d-xo.html where I go over the LS40 vs LS32. It comes down to individual preference. I was on 32 for many years but recently moved to 40, which has tighter control but if you're used to loose sticks then maybe the 32 is better for you.
@@neondagger thanks for the info, you have a new Sub, 👍🏻
The ls32 and the ls40 are too big for the drone. The ls56 could fit theoretically.
I changed the spring and gate in my JLF. 4lb spring, 8-way gate. That tightened every thing up, made it more accurate
Yes you an definitely make improvements to any stick. For me I went from JLF -> LS32 -> LS40 and along the way I've made little mods to customize it.
what is the name of the first game you were playing it looks awesome
DoDonPachi DaiOuJou (or "DDP DOJ"). It is excellent!
shame you didn't find the right solution for your problem...
I have changed the spring for the "harder" spring and it changes the feeling a little bit.
Of course changing the actuator is the best way to resolve this problem.. or changing the joystick....
Yes, actually this whole issue put me down quite a path and I ended up "solving" it with another joystick. I'm wary about tinkering too much with stock controls because often a gain in one direction is a loss in another. Hopefully I'll have that video on the "solution" very soon. It is nearly a perfect solution but did have quite a learning curve to it.
@@neondagger And what brand or model did you use ?
I'm asking this because, I was a big fan of "Japanese" joystick (I started to ply in the 80 ies in the arcade.. and frankly the American joystick was not god for my taste), Sanwa and Seimitsu.
In 2021, I don't know anymore.... I'm starting to look at the Korean joystick (Fanta and Crown....). One of my friend let me try a Korean joystick for one week... and frankly, I didn't get "the trick". I play mainly shmups and arcade games.
I'm not a fan of Tekken...
@@TheFrenchy82 For me there really weren't a lot of choices on the table, because I already knew the Seimitsu LS-32 worked for me and I only needed small adjustments to it. I've been on it for nearly 10 years and I've gotten pretty optimized on it. So on the list of choices I really had only once clear winner and that was the LS-40. Mainly because it had the most similar attributes to the LS-32 as compared to the rest of the Seimistu line, but with a lower shaft height, much quicker engage, slightly shorter throw, and really tight return to neutral. On paper it was pretty much everything I was looking for. So, I got it and it has turned out to be that "perfect stick" for me. But it was a fairly steep learning curve even though it shouldn't seem that way on paper. Mainly the shorter engage required me to play a lot lighter and with more precises movements on the stick to avoid hitting wrong directions. After an adjustment it's definitely my go-to for shmups, while the LS-32 is sort of my new all-arounder for all kinds of genres (fighting, sidescrollers, etc). The Korean sticks (Crown, etc) have really odd gimmicks that to me seem to suggest it was made to deal with issues that Korean fighting game players face (particularly when playing Tekken, and in specific wave dashing and so forth). But I do hear several players like it for shmups. So it's always worth a try but if you can't see how your game would level up with a bit of practice I see no point in "trying" to like a particular stick. Go with what feels right.
What lubricant do you use?
I get Shin-Etsu from focusattack. They sell in these small containers at about 50cents each and that small amount tends to last me years.
Ytou must try LS-56
Yes it was the first one I looked into as an alternative. But for me the shaft height was a bit too high and I wanted a shorter throw so I went with the LS40 instead. Ended up being what I needed. Made a different video about that process.
I don´t like stick shaft very low but LS-56 the spring perfect with and more Kowal Short Throw for the is the second stick favourite. The best for my is my Magstick from I.L
@@unaigalder Interesting, never heard of Magstick until now. I think there are competitors showing up (often from korea) that have interesting stick designs and there should be something out there for everyone to meet their needs. For me, I just never go wrong with Seimitsu and I'm sure all of their sticks would be as close to perfect for me as it gets. It's so close in design and quality that I can be picky about shaft height and all these little details.
@@neondagger Magstick is Happ American Style with good parts
try ls-56 with octa gate and try the ls-40
EDIT: Don't try the ls-56 with octa gate
try ls-56 with kowal short throw mod spacers
and try the ls-40 with home made spacers
I like to only set the gate higher so that the post activation throw is reduced!
Homemade spacers?
I used nuts now. Maybe not the most elegant solution
Ordering spare gates soon. Then I will try to sandwich 2 gates together by clipping off some of the studs
@@neondagger
Seimitsu is Japanese, not German. Vowels have no interaction and no meaningful pronunciation variance beyond emulating foreign words ("up" being "appu" with a dully pronounced "a")
"sey mee tsu"
Interesting! Pronunciation makes sense given a vague phonetic familiarity (Sai being "s-eye" as in the Japanese weapon, Sei being "say" as in the brand "Seiko". I think I was just doing it very lazily here without thinking here. IE: how I usually do it. Thanks for the clarification!