I saw someone point out that the whole "you're beneath me" bit with Cecily connects to Spike's feelings for Buffy. Because his sense of "true love" is all mixed up with feelings of dismissal and inferiority - and so every time Buffy beats him down, insults him, or treats him like a pathetic nuisance, she's unintentionally hitting that specific trigger over and over. Which ironically, only makes him want her more. Not to say that it's the ONLY reason he has feelings for her, of course. Just that his messed up triggers don't exactly help matters.
Jesus the way you worded this made many things about my own love life and mummy issues make sense...true love being mixed up with dismissal and feeling inferior D;
@@xyex Haha yep, unsolicited update but last night my sister, mother and I had a real long and cathartic discussion about our family's cycle of abuse and it was...the beginning of some healing!!
The editing in Fool for Love is so amazing how they go back and forth with Spike's backstory and the killing of slayers. Plus showing the humanity that Spike has that even when Buffy used the line that hurt him so much seeing her need someone to be strong for her for a change he was that. Keep in mind also how she killed the snakey wakey, she literally beat it to death. Shows how frustrated she is and the anger she's building up in having to restrain her emotions. She doesn't only have to be strong for her mom but also for Dawn since she's the big sister. Angelus was always the long term, torment people and break them while Spike liked the thrill of the fight.
"Every Slayer has a death wish even you", "and the second, the second that happens you know I'll be there". Cut to Buffy on her porch depressed about her Mother going to hospital at her lowest point, she looks up to Spike with her big wet eyes and he looks into them, and just then despite having no Soul, despite being a Demon connected to an evil force, he regains a little bit of empathy. Pure fucking cinema. Spike is such a paradox, between that writting and James's masterful acting it's what makes him one of the best characters of all time. Last week, I had a really rough week set out in front of me and seeing you guys react to "Fool for Love" was one of the few things I had to look forward to and signalled the end of the rough times, well here I am watching you two and the hard part of my week is over, so thank you for putting your reactions out guys :).
Spike without a soul is more complicated than Angel with a soul. Not to diss Angel - he was a perfect first boyfriend. But I prefer Spike as boyfriend material.
Cody's analysis of Spike is so on point. People often wonder if vampires change from when they were human and Spike proves that they don't that much. He's still romantic and wants to prove himself to others and he's a nerd at heart. Spike is the character he created to cover that up. The vampire is still William.
I agree, I don't think they change drastically even if the human is dead and gone. I mean Angel as Liam was a jerk, womanizer, lazy... It seems like the vampire shows the hidden or dark side of the dead human amplified. When Willow said that her vampire self was kinda gay, I think he almost was about to say that, but he stopped himself. If Angel is Liam's soul who matured over a century, it would explain why it took him that long to officially become a "good guy" and why he's still immature sometimes.
@@user-dx2dm8oq8g Also, Dru kept her insanity, because that's how she died. You'd think she'd be "cured" like Darla was. Darla was already someone who wasn't really very moral when she was alive, which also made her particularly cruel when she wandered the world with Angelus.
Dru also says at one point that vampires can indeed love, but my take has always been that while human morality goes out the window when they're changed, the more a vampire retains of their old personality, the stronger they seem to be. The ones who are completely overwritten, who don't have that old sense of self, just hunt and feed on instinct and don't last very long.
@@mintyfresh3533great analysis.... I could make arguments around the "core vamps" we see... And they all, admittedly, retain a certain sense of self 🤔🤔 The ones that were all "I was a POS human, and now I'm an immortal, but I don't know anything different than being a POS"are definitely lucky if they last week, let alone 24 hours 🤷♀️ The ones who have more of a grasp of humanity, even their own change of humanity, seem to be the ones that last longer. Because they have more of an understanding of what is at stake and what they are up against
@@mintyfresh3533 True the ones who are just focused on killing and act like npcs die quickly. We see many of them fight Buffy, even some fresh vampires who realize that she's not a regular human and still don't flee. Those who show a personality survive, even Harmony as vapid as she is managed to last and hides from Buffy unless she comes up with a plan or has someone with her. The conscious ones have a survival instinct. Some are more special than others. Dru has premonitions, can hypnotize and manipulate the minds while Spike is good at reading people. He's the only soulless vampire we ever saw make a deal with Buffy and he knew to never go after her mother, the npc vampires would have no control over their urges even if their lives depended on it.
It's so weird how differently this show hits at different points in life. I first watched when it originally aired; never would I have thought I'd have my own brain tumor diagnosed one day. Stay strong, Joyce!
I have always thought fool for love is one of the best examples of editing, storytelling and acting I’ve ever seen. And Spike is one of the most compelling characters I’ve come across. I love his whole arc. This particular episode, especially the subway scene, was so tightly designed. Beautiful. Can’t say anything else because spoilers. But I really appreciated your eyes getting bigger and bigger the longer it went on. I feel personally offended when reactors just giggle at early William and entirely miss what’s going on. You seemed to have the same lump in your throat as the rest of us.
I think its time to bring this up at last: Spike is sort of unique among vampires...the best way to describe it is to say that he has more 'self' than most vamps. His soul may be gone...he is dead/undead...but the force of his personality is so strong that he exists with more passion, more zest, more character than most other vamps (even Angelus.) Normally, the demon gets a free ride and nothing of the person is left except some memories. They don't have a lot of control over their actions. In rare cases, a vamp like Spike has so much sense of self that they have more control over their actions. Not total...make no mistake, he IS dead, soulless, and violent...but he can push past that when he tries hard enough. He feels things passionately and personally...which sets him apart from others of his kind. Its why he cared enough about Dru to team up with Buffy and slightly help prevent the end of the world...and its the same passion that slowly crept up and made him want Buffy as more than a snack. Its a little unfair to Angel/Angelus...because his character was written first...and was slightly less complex. A vampire with a soul...was absolutely evil and unredeemable...now consumed by remorse. Angel often comes off as the less fascinating character, because he has no residual personality when Angelus takes over. Spike developed as the writing team was past a year into their show, and got a great arc of character development. Having said that...fair or no...Spike is fun to watch...mostly because of his quirks and complications, but also because James nailed it as an actor.
I personally think it’s the opposite. Vampires retain much of the humanity and therefore personality when they change. Spike, Darla and Dru are all very similar in personality to their human selves. Angel is unique because he has utterly _no_ humanity in him, which was confirmed in season 2. Among vampires, Angel is the vampire equivalent of a psychopath.
You're right that Darla knowing Dru and Spike was only revealed in this season. In a lot of ways Darla was really under utilized in Season 1, so I'm glad she was brought back and "added" to the backstory more.
Apparently, Julie Benz was very difficult to work with, which is why she was written out early when originally intended to stick around longer. She allegedly softened up and was later asked to reprise the role on Angel. But knowing more about the behind-the-scenes, “difficult to work with” probably just meant that Julie didn’t put up with JW’s bullshit or called out his favouritism with his actors.
Angelus was mad because Spike killed indiscriminately, not because he went on a spree. He likes to plan it out, and thinks it's low of Spike to go about it that way.
Angel likes the artistry of extreme abuse and inflicting devastating torment. Spike just enjoys the thrill of the chase. While both are by nature as a vampires very predatory, Angel takes particular delight in inflicting as much pain as possible for as long as possible. Even amount vampires, Angel is unique in that he’s the vampire equivalent of a genuine psychopath. Rare, even amoung vampires.
One of the many things I love about this show is the way they would do callbacks to silly throwaway jokes. “Ever seen a chaos demon? They’re all slime and antlers!” And there he is 😂
Fun fact! Joss Whedon actually wrote Storm’s line in the X-Men movie about a toad struck by lighting! That was one of two lines he wrote that made it into the movie. The other was Wolverine calling Cyclops a dick! 😂
Caught that too. Joss also said that he wrote the line as a joke. It was intended to be delivered with a shrug, but Halle Berry read it as the most important thing ever. I don't remember where I saw that.
@@wyattgwyon9484 they didnt do the timing right, she wasnt supposed to say it all at once. she was supposed to ask, then zap him, then say "oh i guess the same thing as everything else" like she was finding out herself. for some reason she read the ENTIRE thing before zapping him and everyone was like wtf....
@@unrelatedcomaThere was also another scene that sets up the line that was supposed to be earlier in the film but they cut it out and didn't film it, so the line became something that's hanging free instead of being a resolution to that setup.
@@entrydeniedYeah, I think Toad was supposed to say it several times before the Storm punchline anytime he was going to hurt someone/set his sights on someone. Like “know what happens once an angry Toad sets his sights on you?”, or “wanna know what happens when a toad drops you down an elevator shaft?”(I don’t know the exact lines. Just the general gist of them). So it was supposed to be throwing his own words back at him, but with them cut it lands with a thud.
What is incredible about S5 is even though this is a supernatural/fantasy show, the harsh realities of real life are always there, and are manifested in this episode, and this Season especially. Joyce's illness is in the background, and Buffy has to try and contend with this as well as trying to protect Dawn from Glory. We also have Riley being in Angel's shadow with Dawn innocently telling him Buffy never was as upset over him as she was with Angel, and Spike sniffing Buffy's jumper and stealing her knickers as well. The build up from here on in to the arc of the Season is exceptional. Amazing writing.
Happy "Buffy, the Vampire Slayer" Thursday evening with Cody & Sergio! 😊 Two really good episodes for this evening's lineup. Episode 5x07: One of my favorite episodes. Buffy seeks Spike's help. And he tells how he killed two Slayers in the past. We see a little of Spike's history with Drusilla, Angel, and Darla. And I've always loved Spike's 80s Billy Idol look. Episode 5x08: Buffy learns about her mom's sudden health condition. And Glory begins her search for the Key. Already looking forward to the episode reactions for next week. 😊
I think people interpret the line "a slayer must always reach for her weapon" wrong. The way that Spike says this sounds like he's giving her advice to say that this is what she should always do. But that isn't it. He's saying it's a weakness - that reaching for her weapon is one step she has to take and meanwhile a vampire is ready for the kill. It could also be said "a slayer always has to reach for her weapon". It's just something for her to know and understand, and it's the thing that got the Chinese slayer killed. Why did the slayer die? She had to reach for her weapon. The thing about the Angelus/Spike dynamic is that when we first see Spike in School Hard, he greets Angel as an old friend. I think the reason the dynamic shifted between them later was that Darla wasn't there. Angelus focused all his attention on Dru, and reveled in being able to torment again, including Spike. I don't know that this dynamic existed much between them before that because of Darla's presence. I wish these relationships had been worked out from the beginning. I can reconcile things like Liam/Angelus/Angel and their personalities. But that's much harder for me with 1st season Darla and later versions of her. The annoying, sniveling little girl from S1 doesn't seem like the same person at all to the Queen Darla we come to know later. Buffy has always had the quippy puns and stuff. But there was a lead up to this episode where she was doing it more and being more dramatic with her acrobatics. I think that S2 Spike wasn't able to kill her because she didn't have those little moments of distraction that you talked about. He never found a real weakness, an "in", with her. But if he were fighting her in S5, it's possible he might have. Because as you said, she started doing things like flipping them over gravestones before staking them instead of just going for the kill. I keep editing because I keep thinking of things to say lol. God, I love this episode so much.
The fact that Buffy didn't even think about Riley during her mom's health crisis was just another of many signs that proved their relationship was over, if it ever really existed. Truthfully, he was just the rebound guy. Riley knew this, he just wasn't man enough to accept it, end things and move on. Instead he let his resentment fester and wound up making some really crappy decisions. Didn't help that there was also some underlying toxic masculinity as well. He never liked the fact that Buffy was never dependent on him, never needed him as a protector and savior. Because in Riley's worldview, even if a woman is strong, the man has to be stronger to have any worth. He felt emasculated by her independence. That's not to say that Buffy is blameless in their relationship problems. She definitely took him for granted. But she would've tried to work things out if Riley had just communicated with her instead of bottling it up.
5x7- When this episode first aired, I felt vindicated in my theory about William being an Empath, and that is what Dru picked up on the night he bumped into them. Like Dru, he is a supernatural anomaly. This is why he has excellent and precise intuition, can read people like an open book and emotionally feels so intensely. Dru was made mad by Angelus and Darla. Since Angelus was such a deviant (his human personality trait showing through his demon but x10), he showed Dru deviant toxic behavior, and she taught that to Spike. Spike's demon twisted those deep empathic romantic feelings, but they were there, none the less. Liam's demon, Angelus took his deviant obsessions to the next level of artistically sadistic. Definitely different. With Spike being in tune to Dru with his empath abilities and Dru being a clairvoyant (hypnotist too) that it made sense about their connection. I think the chip muzzled his demon, which allows the echoes of who he was ( which is seeped into his brain like engrained DNA) to shine through. Imo.
Second episode really got to me. My mom died 20 days ago from cancer and nobody knew she was suffering for months .. still feels like a dream. Thank you guys for making my days better with your reactions, lysm. ❤️
The problem Ryley is having is that Buffy isn't letting him support her. A relationship is built in mutual love, trust and support. There's none of that in their relationship. He WANTS to support her and help her but she's not letting him. That shit hurts.
The group is not used to being sneaky while patrolling because they are usually doing it with Buffy - who’s a superhero with supernatural strenght… of course they would be eating chips and talking casually cause patrolling with Buffy, they’re not really afraid for their lives… remember when Walsh was asking Buffy if she maybe wanted to go change her outfit before going out on a mission and she was like : « oh no, don’t worry, i’ve patrolled in this alter many times » lol ( like a super flashy top… she doesnt have to be sneaky- vampires usually fear her- She’s not shy about announcing her presence…
The episodes that reveal more and more of Spike's backstory are such great storytelling moments in the show. There's more to come in future seasons, too. Great reaction, guys!
Remember, Spike has always shown more "humanity" than most other vampires, for better or worse. Remember The Judge from S2 saying "You two stink of humanity. You share affection and jealousy." to Spike and Drusilla. This is more than we see with other vamps. There are a million theories as to why this is, but it's definitely been a trait we've seen since he first arrived. This show is really brilliant at sprinkling in pieces of a character or a story over the course of 7 seasons.
I believe most vampires retain echoes of their humanity, and that’s why their vampire self retains a lot of their human personality. We’ve seen this with pretty much every vampire except one. Angel. Angel is unique in that he has no humanity in him whatsoever, something The Judge also confirmed. And The Master called Angel the most vicious creature he’d ever met. Among vampires, Angel is the equivalent of a genuine psychopath.
I don't love the writing for that episode. Angel/Angelus are artists (and both enjoy opera we find out later) which we knew pretty quickly, so the writers had a sense of this already. The Judge pinpointed a vampire who likes to read as having humanity. Why does The Judge think Angelus doesn't then, if Angelus loves drawing and opera? It makes no sense, and it would have been fine if they had never had The Judge pinpoint the reading vamp.
Not in Buffy. Spike was in a wheelchair for along and dru needed time to recover after she was attacked by a mob. Hence why spike brought her to Sunnydale in the first place.@@Buckaroo_Baldwin
i am glad you guys didnt rip on buffy for being beat by one vampire. there are some who dont like it because they think shes unbeatable but in the end shes still human who can get hurt
Vampirism is a beast the demon that takes over your body attacks and twist the persons qualities . The fact that spike humanity shines through despite having no soul is amazing . Remember the judge in season two could sense the humanity of him and dru. I think he could have incinerated him like the vampire historians love of literature .
Fool for Love is one of my all-time favorite episodes. The storytelling is brilliant, between the flashbacks and present day, the editing is spectacular! It really reveals a lot about Spike's character - including the fact that he's been obsessed with Buffy for a lot longer than we've known. Agreed with your assessment re: Buffy's mom and Buffy's feelings about what's going on with her. Such relatable real life fear and uncertainty. And SMG always knocks it out of the park with the emotional delivery. Shadow is a tough one, a little close to home for a lot of reasons. The real life issues are always harder to deal with than the fantasy based stuff. I get that Riley is feeling unimportant and unneeded to Buffy, but he really is making it too much about himself when Buffy is going through a difficult time. She needs what she needs, and he ought to be able to support her how SHE needs, not how he needs to support her. Agreed. Fuck cancer. Love your reactions as always.
Angel was more into psychological and methodical torture, he considered himself an artist in a way, we see that when he becomes Angelous he keeps to the shadows most of the time and plots, takes his time, and chipes away at Buffy slowly. And Spike was much more impulsive and pure chaos kind of guy, like how the first time we see Spike he gets bored and attacks early. Plus Angel had to spend a long time running from a very dedicated vampire hunter and angry mobs, so he knows he needs to me smarter than just smashing everything.
I think he was cursed already at that time when Spike killed the asian slayer, if you look at the years in the timeline. He seems like the only sane one there, worried about not being killed or found out.
The thing w the vamps vs Riley is… The vamps don’t mind being second/third/fifth on Buffy’s list when she’s dealing with heavy crap… they just wait for the moments she lets herself need a shoulder… Riley NEEDS Buffy to fall apart so he can come to her rescue and be her hero… Buffy is her own Hero and he can’t handle that..
There are several books with stories about previous slayers called ‘Tales from the Slayers’, there are 4 volumes…on top of that there are also comic books about it, they are bundled in an omnibus called ‘Tales’
Re: the Angelus/Spike dynamic: Angelus is a sicko, not a big, bad badass. In Buffy Season 2, he largely avoids a confrontation with Buffy, whereas Spike is so keen to fight her he can't even stick to his own plan. Angelus wants to torture the vulnerable (which Buffy qualifies as based on her relationship to Angel, not because she's the Slayer), but otherwise is smart about survival, Spike wants to cause a scene fighting the toughest person he can find to entertain himself.
This is my favorite season of Buffy and Spike is my favorite character in Buffy. Fool for Love is one of my favorite episodes of Buffy. Sandy is my favorite cameo character in Buffy.
5x7 I think it worth reminding that the Angelus we see in Season 2 is after being repressed by Angel for over 100 years, and Angel’s love of Buffy was flipped into obsession, the combination of these things inflamed Angelus to act as he did as a way to punish Angel and get him back for keeping him at bay all this time, that’s my opinion at least. Love the reactions btw!!
Yes. I believe that he summoned Acathla because he knew Buffy would have to kill him regardless of if he gained his soul back or not, if he did, it would be the ultimate torture for her to have to kill Angel and he'd rather be dead than have his soul back in him.
Oh yes, here we go! I love your reactions and I'm always here for them! ❤ This season is freaking excellent!! "Same as all the others. Slayer called... blah, blah... great protector... blah, blah... scary battles... blah, blah... Oops! She's dead." I just love how SMG delivers this line. 😂
There are Buffy books that expand on the lore. When I was in high school I read one about Spike and Dru traveling and hunting down slayers in line. It was good. It was called, "Pretty Maids All In A Row". I'm so excited watching you guys react to season five. Season five is one of my favorites and same with, "Fool For Love".
Fool For Love is an exceptional episode this why IMHO S5 is by far the best season. The flashbacks are superb we can see where William/Spike is the way he is. He has been treated appallingly by women through the ages Cecily/Drusilla/Buffy. He was a gentle person as a human as opposed to Liam/Angel was an awful human. The scene in The Boxer Rebellion where Drusilla, Darla, Angel and Spike are walking away from the fire and Spike jumps in the air is one of the most iconic ever. This scene is exactly replicated in Angel episode called 'Darla' S2 E7 for those watching the watchlist of both shows in order. The fight on the train too with Spike in 70s where he steals the slayer's coat was brilliant. Buffy repeats Cecily's words 'you're beneath me' there is just so much foreshadowing in this episode it's amazing. A truly brilliant episode in S5 without doubt the best season, Fool For Love is definitely in top 10 episodes of whole series. This is one of the best episodes of the series so far, but I think there are two more in this Season that even better than this! S5 blows all the others away. Incredible writing!
2 wonderful reactions. Another great and entertaining episode. Fool For Love is outstanding. Every scene works, the acting is top tier, and it adds to character, story , and emotional depth. Truly amazing. One part of fool for love is often overlooked. It completes the story not just a spike, but a Buffy and her ability to have control over powerful vampires. There’s an old saying that once can be an odd occurrence, twice can be a coincidence, but three times is a pattern . We have been introduced to three powerful and legendary vampires now in the series. Angel, Dracula, and Spike. All three, and extremely different, have fallen under the thrall of Buffy Summers. We saw how angel became obsessed with Buffy after just one day and then wanted to change his life so he could be in Sunnydale when Buffy arrived. Dracula traveled halfway around the world to meet Buffy. After he observed her, he did not want to kill her or conquer her. Dracula wanted Buffy to become his equal partner. Not to join his other minions, but for her to be with him forever. Dracula could’ve disposed of Buffy, but no, his obsession led to his downfall. Now we have the backstory of Spike . Druscilla saw that Spike was obsessed with Buffy in South America. She had a vision of the future and understood spike more than he did himself. If you look back to the way that spike has handled Buffy, you’ll see that there was always something that prevented him from killing her. Now we know the deep down spike has had an intensity not for violence, but for his version of lustful love Buffy. In school hard, spike circled Buffy in the bronze, just as angel dead. It is interesting. Going back to watch those scenes and then to watch angel when he would, watch Buffy in the bronze. Very similar. This also ties in to what Buffy was told in restless as well as what Dracula told her. She has a power that’s rooted within that. She does not know. I
Spike is really onto something here. We've seen hints of the existential despair that consumes Slayers in the Buffy of "The Wish" and Faith the nihilist. Kendra's entire life was nothing but loneliness and isolation. Buffy herself really experienced it after processing her death at the hands of the Master. When she comes back to Sunnydale she realizes that she is just going to go out every night into mortal combat until she loses and dies...again. Combat always involves a strong element of Chance. A slip in wet grass, a momentary lapse of concentration or simply moving left instead of right and another Slayer gets Called. The stone aged First Slayer revealed that tens of thousands of young girls have been Called as Slayer and then died hard, alone and young. The Chinese Slayer lost through pure chance. She had Spike pinned and was in mid-staking when the explosion knocked her down. The New York Slayer fight is more ambiguous, since the reversal happens in darkness...but she appears to accept her death without fear or regret.
Yep, Spike has always been Romantic-with-a-capital-R, like Lord Byron and all that stuff. Which was the first “pop” glamorization of toxic love, so yeah - Spike has always been super codependent and toxic. I love him so much.
There isnt a Pokemon/Slayerdex that I'm aware of, but there is a series of books and comics called "Tales of the Slayers". They tell stories of different slayers throughout time.
One thing to remember with vampires is that their human self serves as a significant template for their vampire self. Very many personality traits and behaviours are passed on. This is why the Judge in season 2 could sense humanity in Dru, Spike and other vampires. Spike is at his core, deeply sensitive, intuitive and chivalrous because _William_ was so. Which is why he was such a “white knight” for Drusilla, and acts with such respect for Joyce. And why he’s very soft and protective with his interactions with Dawn. Angel is unique. While he was certainly a drunken, boisterous letch as a human, Angelus was _especially_ evil. While other vampires simply enjoyed the chase and hunt, Angelus took special delight in inflicting as much pain as possible for as _long_ as possible. Even The Master has stated that Angel is “the most vicious creature he’d ever met” in season 1. Even among vampires, Angelus is unique because he’s the vampire equivalent of a _genuine psychopath_ - there has not been a vampire like him before. Even the judge in season 2 stated that unlike other vampires, Angel had no humanity in him _at all._
Spike backstory 🖤 Buffy’s getting cocky. The group casually snacking while Riley’s in military mode was hilarious. Spike wanting spicy buffalo wings 😂 I was not expecting THAT backstory for Spike 😭 Dru! 🙌🏼 The ow ow as Dru bites him 💀 Name a more ICONIC gang than Angelus, Darla, Dru & Spike 🙌🏼 The slow motion walk with the fire in the background tho 🔥 Of course Riley went back by himself. The flip & other transitions to the second slayer were awesome. “Every slayer has a death wish.” What a line. The fact he stole her leather jacket too 😭 Oof the “you’re beneath me” line coming full circle was brutal. So conflicted on Spike right now. “She’ll bitch slap you up & down Main Street” Harmony please 😂 Oh no Joyce 😭 Him asking what’s wrong & the pat on the shoulder 🖤 Really loved getting more backstory on Spike! Love me some complex characters. Giles throwing shade at Xander is my favorite thing 😂 That demon stan wanting Glory to pull out his tongue was hilarious! 💀 Not Riley catching Spike smelling Buffy’s sweater & him making the situation worse 😂💀 Not Joyce needing surgery 😭 Yes Tara dropping knowledge. Not Giles selling her exactly what she needs for her spell without knowing. Not a brain tumor. There’s nurse Ben again. I still have a weird feeling about him. Yes Anya noticing the customer receipt. I do feel bad for Riley. Glory’s commentary when Buffy was attacking her killed me 😂 A cobra with biceps is wild. This show is always making me cry 😭 Riley letting that vampire bite him then staking her. He’s definitely going through it. The snake knowing Dawn is the key! 🤯 The chase scene! Not wrecking Giles’ new car. Buffy taking out the snake was a crazy scene. That hospital scene at the end 💔 These were such great episodes. The right mix of emotional damage & comedy. The writing & acting is so good. It shows all characters have duality & dimension to them. The way they can be a villain but you also see another side & empathize with them. Nobody is all bad or good. They do a fantastic job in both Buffy & Angel of showcasing that 🖤 Slaying these reactions as always! 🙌🏼
Regarding guest star names - legally, at least at the time, if the actor had lines they needed to be credited up front. J*ss always hated that, and there is at least two times where a surprise cameo shows up at the end and doesn’t speak, specifically to get around the problem!
Spike backstory was very well done and the episode was great and interesting. About Riley, what he feels right now is just just a continuation of what he's been feeling for some time. Of course Buffy is worried about Joyce now but she still pushes him away and doesn't tell him everything, doesn't confide in him like before, hasn't told him I love you... You say what we think we know... that Buffy cares about him and that he's important to her but Riley doesn't know it and doesn't feel it. And what Dawn told him doesn't help. I think he wanted to get bitten because he realizes that Buffy is attracted to vampires (Angel, Dracula and even Spike who can come to her house...)
Glory is my favorite of the big bads, and this season has REASONS why it's so great. It gets pretty high in levity, but then has much heavier, deeper themes. I think it's probably my favorite season of the series, but seasons six and seven don't slouch either so DON'T YOU STOP WATCHING! Heheh. I love your reactions guys! Keep it up!
S5e7 is one of my favorites - and continues the streak of episode 7 of each season being a good one. In s5e8, I think if Angel were around, she'd have been keeping him in the loop; she's matured, but I think she would still turn to Angel for comfort. She's keeping Riley at more of a distance. Meanwhile, Riley no longer seems to have a purpose like he did for more of s4, with the Initiative. He's adrift, Buffy is his only mission, other than helpjng patrol, but there's too much time on his hands. He wants to be able to give her more support than she is willing to accept. The fire of season 4 has gone out. She can't be everything he needs, and that isn't her fault. Therapy might well help, but Riley, despite his psych knowledge, isn't the kind of guy to seek therapy.
Darla and Spike definitely knew each other. Darla is Spike’s Great-Grandmother/Great-Grandsire. The four of them (Darla, Angel, Drusilla and Spike) formed a very infamous group of vampires called “The Whirlwind” - and in addition to that, were _all_ in the very famous and prestigious Vampire lineage of “The Order of Aurelius” - a line even more famously established by The Master. The irony is that Dru and Spike have no idea just how prestigious and powerful their line is or that they descended from a line at all, and likely had no idea when they arrived in season 2 that the Annointed One was a servant of their Great-Great-Grandsire who planned to revive him.
Spike is rare in that he actually sort of still feels things. I love him so much, and would have killed for a angelus/spike/Dru/darla spin-off. And yeah, I don’t have a lot of patience for Riley being all upset about different relationships being different.
Episode 5x8 expect a whole lot of Riley bashing. They'll say he's selfish, and/or needy and toxic. I'm like, what show were you watching? I will always be a Riley defender. He is a good man, but the fandom turned on him because he wasn't supernatural. They thought he was boring as just a good normal human boyfriend...and/or they hated him because of him not being Angel. Let's not forget that Buffy, herself, said that's what she wanted (twice). Once when her and Angel were cuddled up talking about her prom..and then on Angel in "I will Remember you" when they cuddled after intimacy and she was going to sleep. But I digress...Riley. The man's world was turned upside down with the Intiative fiasco. Then, he finds out that he was being drugged, spied on, almost died, and let's not forget he was r*ped by Faith in Buffy's body, while Buffy was distancing herself from him because of how SHE felt about it. He's been through a lot in a short time, and all he felt he had positive left to nurture was his relationship and maybe a dream of being a duo fight team with the woman he's in love with. I think he's trying to deal with his uncertainty, loneliness and insecurities on his own because he doesn't want to be that type of boyfriend to complain about what he's not getting from Buffy, while she is in a family crisis. He just wants to connect and be let in. For people who criticize that he's too insecure about her...I say, do you remember how Buffy was with Angel? Yes, she was 16, but it was also her first time feeling in love. It was overly dramatic teen love. Buffy made her insecurities that much worse by not talking to him about them, also. He had to nearly drag her off the ledge anytime she caught him even speaking to another girl that wasn't her or Willow. Then re affirm her how much he loved and cared about only her. The more outside affirmations feeding into Riley's insecurities, the more he sinks into depression and does out of character things. She has yet to say those 3 magical words "I. Love. You." to him. If he's so in her inner circle of loved ones, then how was he the last to know about Joyce? He told Buffy in episode 7, "How about we take care of each other." But she's still not getting that she can release and lean on him...the way she expected him to lean on her when he was in crisis. Those are the things that make your bonds stronger with your partner. A clue as to maybe Buffy not being as invested into the relationship is after he got to the surgeon for his heart, he wanted to connect with Buffy over it, when he reached for her hand. Before he could touch her, she pulled away and took off, leaving him there to deal with his emotions over the ordeal. It's like she was checked in when he needed saving and in crisis, and then less so after. Everyone was unintentionally lining up to tell him how less Buffy thinks about him: Spike (well, he did intentionally mean it), Dawn and the Scoobies. That can weigh in on anyone's psyche. The last shot of him standing in the hall alone, and then half of his profile is in "Shadow". Like, in Buffy's life he's there (as in, for her), but not THERE (as in let all the way in her heart). These titles are always multilayered. I love that.
If you think back to season 3 Doppelgangland. When willow say she thinks evil willow is a little gay. Buffy says your personality is completely different as a vampire, but angel corrects her and says that isnt true. So spike will have his personality traits from his human days and willow being gay was foreshadowed.
Remember. Drucila is psychic. She knew Spike would love Buffy LOOOOONG before Spike did. Spike was baffled in South America when Dru kept bringing it up.
"That's another thing she didn't tell him." It's implied that she _only_ told Spike and Dawn (nobody else mentions it or acts like they know about it until after Buffy calls from the hospital,) and Spike only knew because he happened to catch Buffy in a very vulnerable position after he went over to kill her. It seems Riley was actually the _first_ of Buffy's actual friends she told. She and Riley are definitely having communication issues, but Riley's taking everything the worst way due to his insecurities about the relationship, and Spike is deliberately feeding Buffy's boyfriend a distorted version of events to undermine him, so it's important to take both of their perspectives in that scene for what they are.
Impressive that you picked up on "Angelus" acting out of character by wanting to leave during the Boxer Rebellion scene! The clash between Angelus and Spike seems to definitely be a result of Angelus not liking how reckless Spike is. Angelus is more ruthless than Spike, but he's methodical. He thinks of causing harm as an art form - Spike just enjoys causing chaos and mess.
Im an overthinker so i have naturally given this some thought - I assume Joyce knew she had used up the last of her conditioner and that she had a spare under the sink. If that's where she kept the currently-in-use bottle then presumably she would also keep the current shampoo bottle under the sink, in which case she would have asked Buffy to get her shampoo and conditioner from under the sink.
Riley and Buffy are at a critical time when they need EACHOTHER, and comparing/arguing over whose needs trump the other is valid, but ultimately as we see in this episode, irrelevant. The issue stems, IMO, from the fact that Buffy, harsh to admit it, does NOT need Riley. Not in the same way, in any case. In many ways, Buffy is at a time where she has many people to fall back on and rely on and Riley, for one reason or another, perhaps even self-imposed, is isolated in that regard. Really sad stuff, I see it all the time in my work. You're totally right though, therapy therapy therapy, Riley!
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I saw someone point out that the whole "you're beneath me" bit with Cecily connects to Spike's feelings for Buffy. Because his sense of "true love" is all mixed up with feelings of dismissal and inferiority - and so every time Buffy beats him down, insults him, or treats him like a pathetic nuisance, she's unintentionally hitting that specific trigger over and over. Which ironically, only makes him want her more.
Not to say that it's the ONLY reason he has feelings for her, of course. Just that his messed up triggers don't exactly help matters.
Jesus the way you worded this made many things about my own love life and mummy issues make sense...true love being mixed up with dismissal and feeling inferior D;
@@horsepuncher95Oof. Well, now that you know, you can do something about it. So... silver lining?
@@xyex Haha yep, unsolicited update but last night my sister, mother and I had a real long and cathartic discussion about our family's cycle of abuse and it was...the beginning of some healing!!
I love how Darla was always fluent in Dru even if she couldn't stand her sometimes.
Grandma😂
And every reply Darla gives to Dru can effectively be translated as “…that’s nice, dear.”
The editing in Fool for Love is so amazing how they go back and forth with Spike's backstory and the killing of slayers. Plus showing the humanity that Spike has that even when Buffy used the line that hurt him so much seeing her need someone to be strong for her for a change he was that. Keep in mind also how she killed the snakey wakey, she literally beat it to death. Shows how frustrated she is and the anger she's building up in having to restrain her emotions. She doesn't only have to be strong for her mom but also for Dawn since she's the big sister. Angelus was always the long term, torment people and break them while Spike liked the thrill of the fight.
This is, in my opinion, the absolute best season of Buffy! I always find myself racing to see Horror Bandwagon's reactions to this show.
"Every Slayer has a death wish even you", "and the second, the second that happens you know I'll be there".
Cut to Buffy on her porch depressed about her Mother going to hospital at her lowest point, she looks up to Spike with her big wet eyes and he looks into them, and just then despite having no Soul, despite being a Demon connected to an evil force, he regains a little bit of empathy. Pure fucking cinema.
Spike is such a paradox, between that writting and James's masterful acting it's what makes him one of the best characters of all time.
Last week, I had a really rough week set out in front of me and seeing you guys react to "Fool for Love" was one of the few things I had to look forward to and signalled the end of the rough times, well here I am watching you two and the hard part of my week is over, so thank you for putting your reactions out guys :).
Spike is complicated and menacing and charming and charismatic. He’s always been the most interesting character to me.
Spike without a soul is more complicated than Angel with a soul. Not to diss Angel - he was a perfect first boyfriend. But I prefer Spike as boyfriend material.
Cody's analysis of Spike is so on point. People often wonder if vampires change from when they were human and Spike proves that they don't that much. He's still romantic and wants to prove himself to others and he's a nerd at heart. Spike is the character he created to cover that up. The vampire is still William.
I agree, I don't think they change drastically even if the human is dead and gone. I mean Angel as Liam was a jerk, womanizer, lazy... It seems like the vampire shows the hidden or dark side of the dead human amplified. When Willow said that her vampire self was kinda gay, I think he almost was about to say that, but he stopped himself. If Angel is Liam's soul who matured over a century, it would explain why it took him that long to officially become a "good guy" and why he's still immature sometimes.
@@user-dx2dm8oq8g Also, Dru kept her insanity, because that's how she died. You'd think she'd be "cured" like Darla was. Darla was already someone who wasn't really very moral when she was alive, which also made her particularly cruel when she wandered the world with Angelus.
Dru also says at one point that vampires can indeed love, but my take has always been that while human morality goes out the window when they're changed, the more a vampire retains of their old personality, the stronger they seem to be. The ones who are completely overwritten, who don't have that old sense of self, just hunt and feed on instinct and don't last very long.
@@mintyfresh3533great analysis.... I could make arguments around the "core vamps" we see...
And they all, admittedly, retain a certain sense of self 🤔🤔
The ones that were all "I was a POS human, and now I'm an immortal, but I don't know anything different than being a POS"are definitely lucky if they last week, let alone 24 hours 🤷♀️
The ones who have more of a grasp of humanity, even their own change of humanity, seem to be the ones that last longer. Because they have more of an understanding of what is at stake and what they are up against
@@mintyfresh3533 True the ones who are just focused on killing and act like npcs die quickly. We see many of them fight Buffy, even some fresh vampires who realize that she's not a regular human and still don't flee. Those who show a personality survive, even Harmony as vapid as she is managed to last and hides from Buffy unless she comes up with a plan or has someone with her. The conscious ones have a survival instinct. Some are more special than others. Dru has premonitions, can hypnotize and manipulate the minds while Spike is good at reading people. He's the only soulless vampire we ever saw make a deal with Buffy and he knew to never go after her mother, the npc vampires would have no control over their urges even if their lives depended on it.
It's so weird how differently this show hits at different points in life. I first watched when it originally aired; never would I have thought I'd have my own brain tumor diagnosed one day. Stay strong, Joyce!
I hope you're doing well now, friend!
@ScientificallyStupid Thanks! So far, so good; I've got my fingers crossed that it stays that way.
I have always thought fool for love is one of the best examples of editing, storytelling and acting I’ve ever seen. And Spike is one of the most compelling characters I’ve come across. I love his whole arc. This particular episode, especially the subway scene, was so tightly designed. Beautiful. Can’t say anything else because spoilers. But I really appreciated your eyes getting bigger and bigger the longer it went on. I feel personally offended when reactors just giggle at early William and entirely miss what’s going on. You seemed to have the same lump in your throat as the rest of us.
One of THE best episodes ever written. Spikes character always was popular with the fans, but after this his popularity shot through the roof!
10:19 i read a long time ago that the slayer he first fought had an enchanted sword that’s why the cut she gave him turned into a scar
The fact his trademark leather coat was owned by the Slayer he killed is WILD
Waste not.
Oh my god i JUST noticed that THAT’s how spike got the scar on his eyebrow: it was the Chinese slayer who slashed him in the face…
I think its time to bring this up at last: Spike is sort of unique among vampires...the best way to describe it is to say that he has more 'self' than most vamps. His soul may be gone...he is dead/undead...but the force of his personality is so strong that he exists with more passion, more zest, more character than most other vamps (even Angelus.) Normally, the demon gets a free ride and nothing of the person is left except some memories. They don't have a lot of control over their actions. In rare cases, a vamp like Spike has so much sense of self that they have more control over their actions. Not total...make no mistake, he IS dead, soulless, and violent...but he can push past that when he tries hard enough. He feels things passionately and personally...which sets him apart from others of his kind. Its why he cared enough about Dru to team up with Buffy and slightly help prevent the end of the world...and its the same passion that slowly crept up and made him want Buffy as more than a snack.
Its a little unfair to Angel/Angelus...because his character was written first...and was slightly less complex. A vampire with a soul...was absolutely evil and unredeemable...now consumed by remorse. Angel often comes off as the less fascinating character, because he has no residual personality when Angelus takes over. Spike developed as the writing team was past a year into their show, and got a great arc of character development. Having said that...fair or no...Spike is fun to watch...mostly because of his quirks and complications, but also because James nailed it as an actor.
I personally think it’s the opposite. Vampires retain much of the humanity and therefore personality when they change. Spike, Darla and Dru are all very similar in personality to their human selves.
Angel is unique because he has utterly _no_ humanity in him, which was confirmed in season 2.
Among vampires, Angel is the vampire equivalent of a psychopath.
You're right that Darla knowing Dru and Spike was only revealed in this season. In a lot of ways Darla was really under utilized in Season 1, so I'm glad she was brought back and "added" to the backstory more.
Apparently, Julie Benz was very difficult to work with, which is why she was written out early when originally intended to stick around longer.
She allegedly softened up and was later asked to reprise the role on Angel.
But knowing more about the behind-the-scenes, “difficult to work with” probably just meant that Julie didn’t put up with JW’s bullshit or called out his favouritism with his actors.
It has always seemed like Spike was the most human of the vampires in the show.
Angelus was mad because Spike killed indiscriminately, not because he went on a spree. He likes to plan it out, and thinks it's low of Spike to go about it that way.
Angel likes the artistry of extreme abuse and inflicting devastating torment. Spike just enjoys the thrill of the chase.
While both are by nature as a vampires very predatory, Angel takes particular delight in inflicting as much pain as possible for as long as possible.
Even amount vampires, Angel is unique in that he’s the vampire equivalent of a genuine psychopath. Rare, even amoung vampires.
@@arc7375 Spike also prefers a challenge, he doesn't like a one-sided fight.
There are books called Tales of the Slayer. Four volumes detailing different slayers through time!
One of the many things I love about this show is the way they would do callbacks to silly throwaway jokes. “Ever seen a chaos demon? They’re all slime and antlers!” And there he is 😂
other than the slime, he seemed like an okay dude.
@@ScientificallyStupid probably always horny though, that could get old...
@@ernesthakey3396 At least he also can source his own lube! 🤣
There were a lot of great callbacks in this episode!
Fun fact! Joss Whedon actually wrote Storm’s line in the X-Men movie about a toad struck by lighting! That was one of two lines he wrote that made it into the movie. The other was Wolverine calling Cyclops a dick! 😂
Caught that too. Joss also said that he wrote the line as a joke. It was intended to be delivered with a shrug, but Halle Berry read it as the most important thing ever. I don't remember where I saw that.
@@wyattgwyon9484 they didnt do the timing right, she wasnt supposed to say it all at once. she was supposed to ask, then zap him, then say "oh i guess the same thing as everything else" like she was finding out herself. for some reason she read the ENTIRE thing before zapping him and everyone was like wtf....
He also wrote drafts for the original Toy Story movie.
@@unrelatedcomaThere was also another scene that sets up the line that was supposed to be earlier in the film but they cut it out and didn't film it, so the line became something that's hanging free instead of being a resolution to that setup.
@@entrydeniedYeah, I think Toad was supposed to say it several times before the Storm punchline anytime he was going to hurt someone/set his sights on someone. Like “know what happens once an angry Toad sets his sights on you?”, or “wanna know what happens when a toad drops you down an elevator shaft?”(I don’t know the exact lines. Just the general gist of them). So it was supposed to be throwing his own words back at him, but with them cut it lands with a thud.
"Fool for Love" is one of the best episodes of Buffy! (and pays off in some other ways for Angel too!)
What is incredible about S5 is even though this is a supernatural/fantasy show, the harsh realities of real life are always there, and are manifested in this episode, and this Season especially. Joyce's illness is in the background, and Buffy has to try and contend with this as well as trying to protect Dawn from Glory. We also have Riley being in Angel's shadow with Dawn innocently telling him Buffy never was as upset over him as she was with Angel, and Spike sniffing Buffy's jumper and stealing her knickers as well. The build up from here on in to the arc of the Season is exceptional. Amazing writing.
I love that you guys care about Riley, I don't think he gets enough love as a character.
The slayer from the 70’s was one of the few slayers that lived past 18, I believe she was 22
The way Spike's expression changes when he sees Buffy so upset. Breaks me every time.
That's so awesome that you guys noticed that "Angelus" wasn't acting exactly like himself in the Spike flashback. Brilliant!
@@user-dx2dm8oq8g IDK, I don't think Angelus was ever really a slayer slayer. He liked to pick on helpless women because he's a massive D head.
@@user-dx2dm8oq8g That reveal hasn't happened yet .
@@user-dx2dm8oq8g you couldn't help yourself with the spoilers huh?
@@lenr112yeah but we know that Cody and Sergio watch according to the Slayalive guide, so they will have watched it in between these two eps.
@@lenr112 They are ahead of this on Patreon. The Darla episode is up already. But if this person didn't know that, they were giving away a spoiler.
Happy "Buffy, the Vampire Slayer" Thursday evening with Cody & Sergio! 😊
Two really good episodes for this evening's lineup.
Episode 5x07: One of my favorite episodes. Buffy seeks Spike's help. And he tells how he killed two Slayers in the past. We see a little of Spike's history with Drusilla, Angel, and Darla. And I've always loved Spike's 80s Billy Idol look.
Episode 5x08: Buffy learns about her mom's sudden health condition. And Glory begins her search for the Key.
Already looking forward to the episode reactions for next week. 😊
I think people interpret the line "a slayer must always reach for her weapon" wrong. The way that Spike says this sounds like he's giving her advice to say that this is what she should always do. But that isn't it. He's saying it's a weakness - that reaching for her weapon is one step she has to take and meanwhile a vampire is ready for the kill. It could also be said "a slayer always has to reach for her weapon". It's just something for her to know and understand, and it's the thing that got the Chinese slayer killed. Why did the slayer die? She had to reach for her weapon.
The thing about the Angelus/Spike dynamic is that when we first see Spike in School Hard, he greets Angel as an old friend. I think the reason the dynamic shifted between them later was that Darla wasn't there. Angelus focused all his attention on Dru, and reveled in being able to torment again, including Spike. I don't know that this dynamic existed much between them before that because of Darla's presence.
I wish these relationships had been worked out from the beginning. I can reconcile things like Liam/Angelus/Angel and their personalities. But that's much harder for me with 1st season Darla and later versions of her. The annoying, sniveling little girl from S1 doesn't seem like the same person at all to the Queen Darla we come to know later.
Buffy has always had the quippy puns and stuff. But there was a lead up to this episode where she was doing it more and being more dramatic with her acrobatics. I think that S2 Spike wasn't able to kill her because she didn't have those little moments of distraction that you talked about. He never found a real weakness, an "in", with her. But if he were fighting her in S5, it's possible he might have. Because as you said, she started doing things like flipping them over gravestones before staking them instead of just going for the kill.
I keep editing because I keep thinking of things to say lol. God, I love this episode so much.
My core 4 favorites characters will always be Spike, Faith, Angel, and Cordelia.
That does make sense though that spike would feel at the bottom because Darla made angel and he made dru and then she made spike.
The fact that Buffy didn't even think about Riley during her mom's health crisis was just another of many signs that proved their relationship was over, if it ever really existed. Truthfully, he was just the rebound guy. Riley knew this, he just wasn't man enough to accept it, end things and move on. Instead he let his resentment fester and wound up making some really crappy decisions. Didn't help that there was also some underlying toxic masculinity as well. He never liked the fact that Buffy was never dependent on him, never needed him as a protector and savior. Because in Riley's worldview, even if a woman is strong, the man has to be stronger to have any worth. He felt emasculated by her independence.
That's not to say that Buffy is blameless in their relationship problems. She definitely took him for granted. But she would've tried to work things out if Riley had just communicated with her instead of bottling it up.
Spike has my ❤
fool for love is so good. we get so much into spikes character and why he is how he is even back then in season 3 lovers walk
specifically the Chaos Demon he mentions to Willow! We finally get to see what he was talking about LOL
5x07 I always liked the way they did Spike's backstory here.
5x08 And then the badness hits.
But it goes away soon enough...
5x7- When this episode first aired, I felt vindicated in my theory about William being an Empath, and that is what Dru picked up on the night he bumped into them.
Like Dru, he is a supernatural anomaly.
This is why he has excellent and precise intuition, can read people like an open book and emotionally feels so intensely.
Dru was made mad by Angelus and Darla.
Since Angelus was such a deviant (his human personality trait showing through his demon but x10), he showed Dru deviant toxic behavior, and she taught that to Spike.
Spike's demon twisted those deep empathic romantic feelings, but they were there, none the less.
Liam's demon, Angelus took his deviant obsessions to the next level of artistically sadistic. Definitely different.
With Spike being in tune to Dru with his empath abilities and Dru being a clairvoyant (hypnotist too) that it made sense about their connection.
I think the chip muzzled his demon, which allows the echoes of who he was ( which is seeped into his brain like engrained DNA) to shine through. Imo.
Second episode really got to me. My mom died 20 days ago from cancer and nobody knew she was suffering for months .. still feels like a dream. Thank you guys for making my days better with your reactions, lysm. ❤️
So sorry for your loss.
@Lillydelwood Thank you ❤️
I love seeing Spike in his Billy Idol phase❤ (or Billy Idol in his Spike phase)😉
The problem Ryley is having is that Buffy isn't letting him support her. A relationship is built in mutual love, trust and support. There's none of that in their relationship. He WANTS to support her and help her but she's not letting him. That shit hurts.
The group is not used to being sneaky while patrolling because they are usually doing it with Buffy - who’s a superhero with supernatural strenght… of course they would be eating chips and talking casually cause patrolling with Buffy, they’re not really afraid for their lives… remember when Walsh was asking Buffy if she maybe wanted to go change her outfit before going out on a mission and she was like : « oh no, don’t worry, i’ve patrolled in this alter many times » lol ( like a super flashy top… she doesnt have to be sneaky- vampires usually fear her- She’s not shy about announcing her presence…
*halter. It's a halter neck 🙂
The episodes that reveal more and more of Spike's backstory are such great storytelling moments in the show. There's more to come in future seasons, too. Great reaction, guys!
Remember, Spike has always shown more "humanity" than most other vampires, for better or worse. Remember The Judge from S2 saying "You two stink of humanity. You share affection and jealousy." to Spike and Drusilla. This is more than we see with other vamps. There are a million theories as to why this is, but it's definitely been a trait we've seen since he first arrived. This show is really brilliant at sprinkling in pieces of a character or a story over the course of 7 seasons.
I believe most vampires retain echoes of their humanity, and that’s why their vampire self retains a lot of their human personality. We’ve seen this with pretty much every vampire except one. Angel.
Angel is unique in that he has no humanity in him whatsoever, something The Judge also confirmed. And The Master called Angel the most vicious creature he’d ever met.
Among vampires, Angel is the equivalent of a genuine psychopath.
I don't love the writing for that episode. Angel/Angelus are artists (and both enjoy opera we find out later) which we knew pretty quickly, so the writers had a sense of this already. The Judge pinpointed a vampire who likes to read as having humanity. Why does The Judge think Angelus doesn't then, if Angelus loves drawing and opera? It makes no sense, and it would have been fine if they had never had The Judge pinpoint the reading vamp.
In the fight with the Chinese slayer Spike got the scar on his left eyebrow.
Which makes no sense, any injuries sustained after being sired heal up instantly. Unless it was an enchanted sword.
@@Buckaroo_Baldwin What can I say, it's canon. If you look closely, you'll see that Spike has the scar even when he's bumpy.
Not in Buffy. Spike was in a wheelchair for along and dru needed time to recover after she was attacked by a mob. Hence why spike brought her to Sunnydale in the first place.@@Buckaroo_Baldwin
i am glad you guys didnt rip on buffy for being beat by one vampire. there are some who dont like it because they think shes unbeatable but in the end shes still human who can get hurt
Fool For Love is my absolute favorite episode of the series. The storytelling, the acting, the editing!
Vampirism is a beast the demon that takes over your body attacks and twist the persons qualities . The fact that spike humanity shines through despite having no soul is amazing . Remember the judge in season two could sense the humanity of him and dru. I think he could have incinerated him like the vampire historians love of literature .
Fool for Love is one of my all-time favorite episodes. The storytelling is brilliant, between the flashbacks and present day, the editing is spectacular! It really reveals a lot about Spike's character - including the fact that he's been obsessed with Buffy for a lot longer than we've known.
Agreed with your assessment re: Buffy's mom and Buffy's feelings about what's going on with her. Such relatable real life fear and uncertainty. And SMG always knocks it out of the park with the emotional delivery.
Shadow is a tough one, a little close to home for a lot of reasons. The real life issues are always harder to deal with than the fantasy based stuff.
I get that Riley is feeling unimportant and unneeded to Buffy, but he really is making it too much about himself when Buffy is going through a difficult time. She needs what she needs, and he ought to be able to support her how SHE needs, not how he needs to support her.
Agreed. Fuck cancer.
Love your reactions as always.
Angel was more into psychological and methodical torture, he considered himself an artist in a way, we see that when he becomes Angelous he keeps to the shadows most of the time and plots, takes his time, and chipes away at Buffy slowly. And Spike was much more impulsive and pure chaos kind of guy, like how the first time we see Spike he gets bored and attacks early. Plus Angel had to spend a long time running from a very dedicated vampire hunter and angry mobs, so he knows he needs to me smarter than just smashing everything.
I think he was cursed already at that time when Spike killed the asian slayer, if you look at the years in the timeline. He seems like the only sane one there, worried about not being killed or found out.
The thing w the vamps vs Riley is…
The vamps don’t mind being second/third/fifth on Buffy’s list when she’s dealing with heavy crap… they just wait for the moments she lets herself need a shoulder…
Riley NEEDS Buffy to fall apart so he can come to her rescue and be her hero… Buffy is her own Hero and he can’t handle that..
Oh season 2,3, and 7 made my childhood. The entire series was must see tv and the books but those three chefs kiss .
you know i have watched Buffy tons of times and never thought about the fact that spike made up the “spike legend and william the bloody lore”
There are several books with stories about previous slayers called ‘Tales from the Slayers’, there are 4 volumes…on top of that there are also comic books about it, they are bundled in an omnibus called ‘Tales’
Not sure how many people notice, when Spike storms out after being rejected by Cecilia, the person he bumped into is Angelus with Darla & Dru.
Re: the Angelus/Spike dynamic: Angelus is a sicko, not a big, bad badass. In Buffy Season 2, he largely avoids a confrontation with Buffy, whereas Spike is so keen to fight her he can't even stick to his own plan. Angelus wants to torture the vulnerable (which Buffy qualifies as based on her relationship to Angel, not because she's the Slayer), but otherwise is smart about survival, Spike wants to cause a scene fighting the toughest person he can find to entertain himself.
This season is sooo good! Glad you're enjoying it, you have some good insights into this!
YESS!! I WAS WAITING FOR THIS!!
I'm too! Finally!
This is my favorite season of Buffy and Spike is my favorite character in Buffy. Fool for Love is one of my favorite episodes of Buffy. Sandy is my favorite cameo character in Buffy.
5x7 I think it worth reminding that the Angelus we see in Season 2 is after being repressed by Angel for over 100 years, and Angel’s love of Buffy was flipped into obsession, the combination of these things inflamed Angelus to act as he did as a way to punish Angel and get him back for keeping him at bay all this time, that’s my opinion at least. Love the reactions btw!!
Yes. I believe that he summoned Acathla because he knew Buffy would have to kill him regardless of if he gained his soul back or not, if he did, it would be the ultimate torture for her to have to kill Angel and he'd rather be dead than have his soul back in him.
Oh yes, here we go! I love your reactions and I'm always here for them! ❤ This season is freaking excellent!!
"Same as all the others. Slayer called... blah, blah... great protector... blah, blah... scary battles... blah, blah... Oops! She's dead." I just love how SMG delivers this line. 😂
There are Buffy books that expand on the lore. When I was in high school I read one about Spike and Dru traveling and hunting down slayers in line. It was good. It was called, "Pretty Maids All In A Row". I'm so excited watching you guys react to season five. Season five is one of my favorites and same with, "Fool For Love".
Fool For Love is an exceptional episode this why IMHO S5 is by far the best season. The flashbacks are superb we can see where William/Spike is the way he is. He has been treated appallingly by women through the ages Cecily/Drusilla/Buffy. He was a gentle person as a human as opposed to Liam/Angel was an awful human. The scene in The Boxer Rebellion where Drusilla, Darla, Angel and Spike are walking away from the fire and Spike jumps in the air is one of the most iconic ever. This scene is exactly replicated in Angel episode called 'Darla' S2 E7 for those watching the watchlist of both shows in order. The fight on the train too with Spike in 70s where he steals the slayer's coat was brilliant. Buffy repeats Cecily's words 'you're beneath me' there is just so much foreshadowing in this episode it's amazing. A truly brilliant episode in S5 without doubt the best season, Fool For Love is definitely in top 10 episodes of whole series. This is one of the best episodes of the series so far, but I think there are two more in this Season that even better than this! S5 blows all the others away. Incredible writing!
Fool for Love is one of the absolute best Buffy episodes! So well written, directed, edited, and acted!
did you guys notice angel, drew and daria when spike runs out crying and bumps into someone?
2 wonderful reactions. Another great and entertaining episode.
Fool For Love is outstanding. Every scene works, the acting is top tier, and it adds to character, story , and emotional depth. Truly amazing.
One part of fool for love is often overlooked. It completes the story not just a spike, but a Buffy and her ability to have control over powerful vampires. There’s an old saying that once can be an odd occurrence, twice can be a coincidence, but three times is a pattern . We have been introduced to three powerful and legendary vampires now in the series. Angel, Dracula, and Spike. All three, and extremely different, have fallen under the thrall of Buffy Summers. We saw how angel became obsessed with Buffy after just one day and then wanted to change his life so he could be in Sunnydale when Buffy arrived. Dracula traveled halfway around the world to meet Buffy. After he observed her, he did not want to kill her or conquer her. Dracula wanted Buffy to become his equal partner. Not to join his other minions, but for her to be with him forever. Dracula could’ve disposed of Buffy, but no, his obsession led to his downfall. Now we have the backstory of Spike . Druscilla saw that Spike was obsessed with Buffy in South America. She had a vision of the future and understood spike more than he did himself. If you look back to the way that spike has handled Buffy, you’ll see that there was always something that prevented him from killing her. Now we know the deep down spike has had an intensity not for violence, but for his version of lustful love Buffy. In school hard, spike circled Buffy in the bronze, just as angel dead. It is interesting. Going back to watch those scenes and then to watch angel when he would, watch Buffy in the bronze. Very similar. This also ties in to what Buffy was told in restless as well as what Dracula told her. She has a power that’s rooted within that. She does not know. I
Fool for Love is one of my favorite episodes
Ditto. Just awesome!
Spike is really onto something here. We've seen hints of the existential despair that consumes Slayers in the Buffy of "The Wish" and Faith the nihilist. Kendra's entire life was nothing but loneliness and isolation. Buffy herself really experienced it after processing her death at the hands of the Master. When she comes back to Sunnydale she realizes that she is just going to go out every night into mortal combat until she loses and dies...again. Combat always involves a strong element of Chance. A slip in wet grass, a momentary lapse of concentration or simply moving left instead of right and another Slayer gets Called.
The stone aged First Slayer revealed that tens of thousands of young girls have been Called as Slayer and then died hard, alone and young.
The Chinese Slayer lost through pure chance. She had Spike pinned and was in mid-staking when the explosion knocked her down. The New York Slayer fight is more ambiguous, since the reversal happens in darkness...but she appears to accept her death without fear or regret.
Yep, Spike has always been Romantic-with-a-capital-R, like Lord Byron and all that stuff. Which was the first “pop” glamorization of toxic love, so yeah - Spike has always been super codependent and toxic. I love him so much.
There isnt a Pokemon/Slayerdex that I'm aware of, but there is a series of books and comics called "Tales of the Slayers". They tell stories of different slayers throughout time.
One thing to remember with vampires is that their human self serves as a significant template for their vampire self. Very many personality traits and behaviours are passed on.
This is why the Judge in season 2 could sense humanity in Dru, Spike and other vampires.
Spike is at his core, deeply sensitive, intuitive and chivalrous because _William_ was so. Which is why he was such a “white knight” for Drusilla, and acts with such respect for Joyce. And why he’s very soft and protective with his interactions with Dawn.
Angel is unique. While he was certainly a drunken, boisterous letch as a human, Angelus was _especially_ evil. While other vampires simply enjoyed the chase and hunt, Angelus took special delight in inflicting as much pain as possible for as _long_ as possible. Even The Master has stated that Angel is “the most vicious creature he’d ever met” in season 1. Even among vampires, Angelus is unique because he’s the vampire equivalent of a _genuine psychopath_ - there has not been a vampire like him before. Even the judge in season 2 stated that unlike other vampires, Angel had no humanity in him _at all._
Spike backstory 🖤 Buffy’s getting cocky. The group casually snacking while Riley’s in military mode was hilarious. Spike wanting spicy buffalo wings 😂 I was not expecting THAT backstory for Spike 😭 Dru! 🙌🏼 The ow ow as Dru bites him 💀 Name a more ICONIC gang than Angelus, Darla, Dru & Spike 🙌🏼 The slow motion walk with the fire in the background tho 🔥 Of course Riley went back by himself. The flip & other transitions to the second slayer were awesome. “Every slayer has a death wish.” What a line. The fact he stole her leather jacket too 😭 Oof the “you’re beneath me” line coming full circle was brutal. So conflicted on Spike right now. “She’ll bitch slap you up & down Main Street” Harmony please 😂 Oh no Joyce 😭 Him asking what’s wrong & the pat on the shoulder 🖤 Really loved getting more backstory on Spike! Love me some complex characters.
Giles throwing shade at Xander is my favorite thing 😂 That demon stan wanting Glory to pull out his tongue was hilarious! 💀 Not Riley catching Spike smelling Buffy’s sweater & him making the situation worse 😂💀 Not Joyce needing surgery 😭 Yes Tara dropping knowledge. Not Giles selling her exactly what she needs for her spell without knowing. Not a brain tumor. There’s nurse Ben again. I still have a weird feeling about him. Yes Anya noticing the customer receipt. I do feel bad for Riley. Glory’s commentary when Buffy was attacking her killed me 😂 A cobra with biceps is wild. This show is always making me cry 😭 Riley letting that vampire bite him then staking her. He’s definitely going through it. The snake knowing Dawn is the key! 🤯 The chase scene! Not wrecking Giles’ new car. Buffy taking out the snake was a crazy scene. That hospital scene at the end 💔 These were such great episodes. The right mix of emotional damage & comedy. The writing & acting is so good. It shows all characters have duality & dimension to them. The way they can be a villain but you also see another side & empathize with them. Nobody is all bad or good. They do a fantastic job in both Buffy & Angel of showcasing that 🖤 Slaying these reactions as always! 🙌🏼
The most shocking part of these episodes was Glory actually BUYING what she needed from Giles
Fool for Love is one of the series' best episodes. Shadow is also really good.
Regarding guest star names - legally, at least at the time, if the actor had lines they needed to be credited up front. J*ss always hated that, and there is at least two times where a surprise cameo shows up at the end and doesn’t speak, specifically to get around the problem!
Spike backstory was very well done and the episode was great and interesting.
About Riley, what he feels right now is just just a continuation of what he's been feeling for some time. Of course Buffy is worried about Joyce now but she still pushes him away and doesn't tell him everything, doesn't confide in him like before, hasn't told him I love you... You say what we think we know... that Buffy cares about him and that he's important to her but Riley doesn't know it and doesn't feel it. And what Dawn told him doesn't help.
I think he wanted to get bitten because he realizes that Buffy is attracted to vampires (Angel, Dracula and even Spike who can come to her house...)
Glory is my favorite of the big bads, and this season has REASONS why it's so great. It gets pretty high in levity, but then has much heavier, deeper themes. I think it's probably my favorite season of the series, but seasons six and seven don't slouch either so DON'T YOU STOP WATCHING! Heheh. I love your reactions guys! Keep it up!
Fool for Love is one of theeee best
All slime and antlers.
There is a book, it’s called Tales of The Slayers. I think it covered 5 other slayers throughout history.
S5e7 is one of my favorites - and continues the streak of episode 7 of each season being a good one.
In s5e8, I think if Angel were around, she'd have been keeping him in the loop; she's matured, but I think she would still turn to Angel for comfort. She's keeping Riley at more of a distance. Meanwhile, Riley no longer seems to have a purpose like he did for more of s4, with the Initiative. He's adrift, Buffy is his only mission, other than helpjng patrol, but there's too much time on his hands. He wants to be able to give her more support than she is willing to accept.
The fire of season 4 has gone out. She can't be everything he needs, and that isn't her fault. Therapy might well help, but Riley, despite his psych knowledge, isn't the kind of guy to seek therapy.
Darla and Spike definitely knew each other. Darla is Spike’s Great-Grandmother/Great-Grandsire. The four of them (Darla, Angel, Drusilla and Spike) formed a very infamous group of vampires called “The Whirlwind” - and in addition to that, were _all_ in the very famous and prestigious Vampire lineage of “The Order of Aurelius” - a line even more famously established by The Master.
The irony is that Dru and Spike have no idea just how prestigious and powerful their line is or that they descended from a line at all, and likely had no idea when they arrived in season 2 that the Annointed One was a servant of their Great-Great-Grandsire who planned to revive him.
he is dressed as billy idol 😉
Well actually....
@Buckaroo_Baldwin 😊
If you know, you know. 🤭
There will be a little nod to Cecily in a later episode. It's always fun to see those little easter eggs in this show.
I’ve been waiting for you guys to get to 5x07 ☺️
Spike is rare in that he actually sort of still feels things. I love him so much, and would have killed for a angelus/spike/Dru/darla spin-off. And yeah, I don’t have a lot of patience for Riley being all upset about different relationships being different.
Not certain,but I've heard that Storm line came from something Joss Whedon wrote, but for a sorta quippy moment than the *serious* one we got.
Episode 5x8 expect a whole lot of Riley bashing. They'll say he's selfish, and/or needy and toxic. I'm like, what show were you watching?
I will always be a Riley defender. He is a good man, but the fandom turned on him because he wasn't supernatural. They thought he was boring as just a good normal human boyfriend...and/or they hated him because of him not being Angel.
Let's not forget that Buffy, herself, said that's what she wanted (twice). Once when her and Angel were cuddled up talking about her prom..and then on Angel in "I will Remember you" when they cuddled after intimacy and she was going to sleep.
But I digress...Riley.
The man's world was turned upside down with the Intiative fiasco.
Then, he finds out that he was being drugged, spied on, almost died, and let's not forget he was r*ped by Faith in Buffy's body, while Buffy was distancing herself from him because of how SHE felt about it. He's been through a lot in a short time, and all he felt he had positive left to nurture was his relationship and maybe a dream of being a duo fight team with the woman he's in love with.
I think he's trying to deal with his uncertainty, loneliness and insecurities on his own because he doesn't want to be that type of boyfriend to complain about what he's not getting from Buffy, while she is in a family crisis.
He just wants to connect and be let in. For people who criticize that he's too insecure about her...I say, do you remember how Buffy was with Angel?
Yes, she was 16, but it was also her first time feeling in love. It was overly dramatic teen love. Buffy made her insecurities that much worse by not talking to him about them, also.
He had to nearly drag her off the ledge anytime she caught him even speaking to another girl that wasn't her or Willow. Then re affirm her how much he loved and cared about only her.
The more outside affirmations feeding into Riley's insecurities, the more he sinks into depression and does out of character things.
She has yet to say those 3 magical words "I. Love. You." to him. If he's so in her inner circle of loved ones, then how was he the last to know about Joyce?
He told Buffy in episode 7, "How about we take care of each other." But she's still not getting that she can release and lean on him...the way she expected him to lean on her when he was in crisis.
Those are the things that make your bonds stronger with your partner.
A clue as to maybe Buffy not being as invested into the relationship is after he got to the surgeon for his heart, he wanted to connect with Buffy over it, when he reached for her hand. Before he could touch her, she pulled away and took off, leaving him there to deal with his emotions over the ordeal.
It's like she was checked in when he needed saving and in crisis, and then less so after.
Everyone was unintentionally lining up to tell him how less Buffy thinks about him: Spike (well, he did intentionally mean it), Dawn and the Scoobies.
That can weigh in on anyone's psyche.
The last shot of him standing in the hall alone, and then half of his profile is in "Shadow". Like, in Buffy's life he's there (as in, for her), but not THERE (as in let all the way in her heart).
These titles are always multilayered. I love that.
There's a great essay about that coat, but the title is a season 7 spoiler 😅
If you think back to season 3 Doppelgangland. When willow say she thinks evil willow is a little gay. Buffy says your personality is completely different as a vampire, but angel corrects her and says that isnt true. So spike will have his personality traits from his human days and willow being gay was foreshadowed.
Remember. Drucila is psychic. She knew Spike would love Buffy LOOOOONG before Spike did. Spike was baffled in South America when Dru kept bringing it up.
This season is SOO GOOD
Fool for Love is in my Top 5 best.
14:28 We get to see the Chaos Demon that Spike told Willow about in Lover's Walk
"That's another thing she didn't tell him."
It's implied that she _only_ told Spike and Dawn (nobody else mentions it or acts like they know about it until after Buffy calls from the hospital,) and Spike only knew because he happened to catch Buffy in a very vulnerable position after he went over to kill her. It seems Riley was actually the _first_ of Buffy's actual friends she told. She and Riley are definitely having communication issues, but Riley's taking everything the worst way due to his insecurities about the relationship, and Spike is deliberately feeding Buffy's boyfriend a distorted version of events to undermine him, so it's important to take both of their perspectives in that scene for what they are.
Lord Refa! If you know, you know.
I just want to thank you for your email; it did indeed find me well!
Impressive that you picked up on "Angelus" acting out of character by wanting to leave during the Boxer Rebellion scene!
The clash between Angelus and Spike seems to definitely be a result of Angelus not liking how reckless Spike is. Angelus is more ruthless than Spike, but he's methodical. He thinks of causing harm as an art form - Spike just enjoys causing chaos and mess.
welcome back the Queen that is Drusilla
Im an overthinker so i have naturally given this some thought - I assume Joyce knew she had used up the last of her conditioner and that she had a spare under the sink. If that's where she kept the currently-in-use bottle then presumably she would also keep the current shampoo bottle under the sink, in which case she would have asked Buffy to get her shampoo and conditioner from under the sink.
Fool for love is my fav episode
Riley and Buffy are at a critical time when they need EACHOTHER, and comparing/arguing over whose needs trump the other is valid, but ultimately as we see in this episode, irrelevant. The issue stems, IMO, from the fact that Buffy, harsh to admit it, does NOT need Riley. Not in the same way, in any case. In many ways, Buffy is at a time where she has many people to fall back on and rely on and Riley, for one reason or another, perhaps even self-imposed, is isolated in that regard. Really sad stuff, I see it all the time in my work. You're totally right though, therapy therapy therapy, Riley!
I LOVE your Courage the Cowardly Dog shirt ❤❤❤