That scene between Buffy and Joyce at the hospital when they are talking about Dawn just gets to me every time! It is such a tender scene both of the actors knock it out the park!
I haven't seen these episodes in a long time, but seeing how Buffy the character is reacting is stirring up feelings when my Mom was terminally ill and how I was trying to keep it together in public but breaking down in private. They did a good job portraying this grief
I think Buffy and Riley were right for each other when they got together, and both grew a lot from the relationship. Then they weren't anymore, and it was better for them to break up. A relationship doesn't have to last forever to be worthwhile. 💜
Yes..when ppl really diss Riley I always defend him..he was the right guy at the right time for Buffy, and like 99% of rebound or college relationships they were both still maturing and grew apart. No bad guys here, it just was. Riley’s judgement on the whole “getting some weirdness on the side” is the most questionable behavior, but it’s his only “safe” way of dipping his toes in the supernatural world that Buffy is a natural part of, and seems that Buffy tries to insulate him from.
right Riley was so selfish this season for sure. Buffy was literally going through it and did not have the emotional bandwidth and Riley was still like me me me.
Exactly, it's not her fault Riley doesn't have a life outside of their relationship anymore. And he kept flaking on her when she did genuinely need him. He's the best fighter out of the non-superpowered Scoobies, but when Buffy asked him to help cover patrols because she was emotionally and/or physically compromised he either pointlessly risked his life to do it solo or blew it off to cheat on her with vampires. He could have been a big help on a more personal level in this episode if he'd checked in on Buffy to see how she was doing, what with Joyce having brain cancer and all - this rough night would have been a lot more manageable if Riley, someone who's got more emotional distance from the situation and was a psychology TA, had stayed over to help look after Joyce and keep Buffy and Dawn company. But nope, back to the military he goes. He just kept hearing what lined up with the insecurities he already had (she probably didn't want you patrolling in episode five because you were still recovering from your heart nearly exploding the week before, dumbass, not because she thought you were useless.)
This episode only proved me that the main author could not admit his mistakes and would rather blame someone else for that. And a striking example of this is Riley/Buffy storyline. She was having all these problems and all he could think of was "what about me". He cheated on her with that vampire, he did it to feel physical need from other person, which is the equivalent of s/x, then after she confronted him HE blamed her for what he did and even gave her an ultimatum that she must somehow declare her love for him and that she needs him right now, otherwise he will leave. And after that they get other character to tell her that SHE was stupid, that she was wrong and that she should forget all this and run for him immidiately, because "he's the one that comes along once in a lifetime". What? Are they okay there? The author is completely unaware of how ridiculous it looks like. They just really wanted to end things this way. This storyline failed due to a lack of chemistry actually and because the plot didn't work the way they wanted. But instead of admitting it, that this just didn't work so it wasn't meant to be, they practically blamed Buffy for this and made her chase that guy while he walked away with his head held high because he has not repented. And the narrative fully supports this. Because they needed to blame someone other than themselves for their poor choice. Because they are too arrogant.
@@Junejane4 It's also a jarring change from the preceding episodes. Up until episode 10, it's not really framed as Buffy's fault - Xander is critical of _Riley's_ behaviour several times in the episodes leading up to Into the Woods and never gives any indication he thinks Buffy has any culpability for whatever's going on in Riley's head, right up until this episode, where he suddenly changes his tune completely and now it's all Buffy's fault. And his tune changes _back_ pretty quickly after Riley leaves. It's like this episode wandered in from a parallel universe where the storyline had subtle but crucial differences, because not only does it not fully fit what the season had been leading up to, it makes _Xander_ more culpable in their breakup than Buffy, because he knew Riley was going through some shit and he didn't sit Riley down for a talk. That would have been fine if he'd just stuck to the comments he gave Riley in the preceding episodes, because they all had bigger things on their minds and there wasn't much of an indication that Xander was such a huge Buffy/Riley shipper before this episode, but the speech and his comments in the previous few episodes undercut each other. He's now lecturing Buffy about how blind she was not to see a situation that Riley deliberately kept hidden from everyone _except Xander,_ who knew about it and neither told her Riley was having issues and recommended couples therapy, nor talked it over with Riley. I actually don't mind this plot up until episode 10, but the way it ends kills it for me.
After years of picking this to death, I don’t mind it. Buffy did take Riley absolutely for granted, yes, she has overwhelming things, but still..Riley was a huge part of a secret thing, a valued member, and he decided to stay in Sunnydale for Buffy, and ppl just gloss over that in favor of Buffy’s viewpoint. They ultimately didn’t learn the lessons from “Hush,” and didn’t communicate well. However, Riley was the right guy at the right time, then they both matured and had different needs. No need to assign blame. Buffy was hurt, she had a snap reaction, then decided it was worth talking to Riley again before he left forever, so running to catch him isn’t a weakness on Buffy’s part..
Buffy had bad experiences opening up to her friends and family. When she had to kill Angel, everyone was pushing her to get over it and be "fun normal Buffy again". She had ptsd, ran away and got blamed for it so now she bottles in everything. I think them being vulnerable around each other would have helped both of them. Riley telling Xander that Buffy didn't love him, instead of directly talking to her is also when it all started to go wrong for him mentally. I agree, he also needed to find purpose, get his own friends and not make Buffy the center of his life. I think Buffy does love him, but she's not an emotional teenager anymore to be crying and stressing like she was with Angel, she's an adult and has other responsibilities.
In Russian, the moon is “Luna”, with the accent on the last syllable. And “lunatic” also has accent on “a”. So, it's pretty obvious; but it also works the other way. In a cartoon “Nu Pogodi” there is a scene where one of the characters thinks (erroneously) that he is on the Moon, greeted by Moon people. So, he says “Hi, lunatics”.
The sad truth of the end of Buffy/Riley is how right both of them were. She shuts herself off from others routinely, shares almost nothing, and leaves others waiting for her to open back up to them....and Riley came into the show a young man at the top of his game, used to being needed, being more able than most, and being the person others turn to in a crisis. His ego couldn't take being shut out, being convenient but unnecessary. He gave up the world that made sense to him to be with someone that amazed him...and then wasn't really an essential component in that new world. If, theoretically, they'd communicated a LOT more openly, its the kind of thing people can move past...but not this time, not this show. A lot of other mysteries are unfolding, and theres nothing I can say and stay spoiler free, so I'll keep mum until the time is right. Meanwhile, I love your post analyses...and convos...plus...huzzah for etymology!! As a word lover its great to see some other people with the same passion for the roots of language and colloquialism.
I had a neighbor with brain cancer. (Unfortunately, she didn’t make it) I can attest that the speech filters pretty much disappear. It’s a real thing. However, she was such a rascal we started suspecting that she was cussing us out even when her brain temporarily recovered!
S5 is my fave because the arc/storyline really flows so nicely throughout the whole season.It's really solid and tells a great story. I always know when Sergio is gonna get teary, he is very consistent,I am surprised you don't have some tissues near you by now! :)
I always cry at that scene where Joyce says “She’s not mine, is she?” Every time. And I always celebrate when Riley leaves, lol. I was mostly bored by him in season 4, but I HATED him in season 5. He needed to use his big boy words and communicate sooner than this. Like, he told XANDER, but not her. His demand that she ~immediately~ be okay with everything, or he’s leaving is so frustrating. He also didn’t seem to have a purpose other than Buffy, which was an issue. Did he even have a job? Who knows?
These episodes feel like such a wind down from so much drama but worry not, there are many more twists and turns, fun adventures and surely tears to come before this show is over.
Nobody will ever be able to convince me that what Xander said was good for Buffy. Everything he told Buffy she should do (end it, make it a clean break, etc.), she did! And yet, it wasn't enough because Xander had his own issues. I hated that conversation and that she ended up running after Riley. Ignoring the meta of needing to get rid of Riley because he had no story left so they could move on with the season, it's just absolutely idiotic that he would give her an ultimatum days after her Mom went through something so scary. Give her some time, man. In an otherwise stellar season (my favorite!), the write-out of Riley was really poorly done IMO. (I know some will disagree, but I've rewatched this dozens of times over the last 25 years, read all the differing viewpoints, and my stance has never changed.)
Absolutely. Xander is a selfish ass and after his behaviour in the S2 finale you'd think he'd stop projecting his issues all over Buffy's life. But nooooo. He's going to make her feel bad for reacting in a sensible way to somebody who feels justified being aggressive and yelling at her for HIS choices then dropping an ultimatum like that. I didn't see it the first time I watched (as an early 20-something). But EVERY time since I'm like, get your hands off her, stop YELLING at her and stop being snarky because she's not giving you cookies while her mum has surgery!
I've always thought of Riley getting, ahem, sucked...as more like an addiction than cheating. It doesn't appear any more sensual than usual vampirism (always with an air of sexiness), but definitely seems like he's in a trap house. It feels more to me like an addiction driven by the utter loss of everything (literally everything he worked for and believed in for years fell apart) and all he has left is Buffy, but he feels she doesn't love or need him...he feels useless. He's lost his identity. He's lost everything but Buffy and feels like he's losing her, too. So, he turns to what equates to a drug. I've always felt so sad for him here. (5.9)
I always felt it was more that he saw her being obsessed with the darker side of this world. With Angel she was full on obsessed and as Dawn told Riley "she doesn't get like that about you". And then there's Spike hovering around and Riley thinks there's something there too because Spike keeps poking that wound. So he went to discover more about it and got a bit too deep in.
37:48 true ... But when leaving the past behind and making a fresh start, they say it's best to not look back 🤷♀️ or you might stop yourself or second guess the decision 🤷♀️
Riley misreading Buffy's lack of attention for him as her not loving him, with all the context we have... I'm a well known Riley apologist among my friends because it's not his fault - He's a bit broken, and his whole identity is wrapped up in her after losing his entire structure, family, home.... But boooyyy. The dialogue says it all. 'You didn't cry once' he says... He wasn't where she or the team needed him to be because he was all hurt feelies over her being legitimately distracted. He really built up the whole thing in his head and took it personally rather than being a grown up. His stupid 'Fine, I'll go where I'm *wanted* sulk face whenever she turns to her immediate family who are in literal crisis makes me so mad on rewatches! And frankly Xander should just marry Riley himself. He's a selfish ass.
It’s just that Buffy just got out of an epic relationship with Angel, and he was her first love also. So now Riley is kind of her rebound guy. But Riley is madly in love with her, so the feelings in this relationship aren’t equals. Xander is just saying: if you can’t love him a 100%, you should let him go and not string him along- - but if you think the relationship is worth saving, than go after him and tell him how you feel…
What? People hate Riley lol mostly for this episode. I think most reasonable people understand they just were not meant to be, because they both needed very different things from each other, and they both failed to communicate it.
@@valeriem.8112 maybe you want it to look like this but in fact it was not what was in the script. Xander really tried to convince her that the guy was the best she could have. And that he was doing his best while she was wrong and stupid because she didn't understand that. Xander then suggested her to "beg him to stay" and then he's like "oh, but if you don't want it then". Dude, you did everything to convince her otherwise. You don't care what she wants. You care about your opinion only. Xander: You gonna let him go? Buffy: It's not my decision to make. Xander: Of course it is. Buffy: Well, it's not fair! Xander: *Who cares if it's fair?* In about twenty minutes, Riley's gonna disappear, maybe forever, *unless you do something to stop him.* Buffy: What am I supposed to do? *Beg* him to stay? Xander: *Why wouldn't you?* To keep Riley here you- Buffy: I don't even know who he is anymore! I mean, I thought he was... dependable. ... Xander: But you missed the point. You shut down, Buffy. And you've been treating Riley like the rebound guy. *When he's the one that comes along once in a lifetime* (HERE). He's never held back with you. He's risked everything. (WHAT?) And you're about to let him fly because you don't like ultimatums? (Actually yes, because that's manipulation) If he's not the guy, if what he needs from you just isn't there, let him go. Break his heart, and make it a clean break. But if you really think you can love this guy... I'm talking scary, messy, no-emotions-barred need (That they never had) ... if you're ready for that... then *think about what you're about to lose* (What exactly?) Buffy: Xander... Xander: *Run.* He 100% convinces her.
AGREE. This isn't even about Angel. This is about Riley having no other identity than 'Buffy's Lover' and when she's not got the emotional capacity because her mum might die (and because she's worried about Dawn - Literally the only piece of the puzzle she's holding back from him) he takes it super personally, listens to XANDER of all people, and has a massive tantrum rather than look around and ask 'why is Buffy busy all the time? Can I HELP in any way? Nooo, I'm gonna sulk instead...'
I love how giddy Willow is when she dusts the 2 vamps. I will say, my dad had cancer and some of the medications made him act very different. So even when it's not brain cancer specifically there can be mood changes due to other factors. I love how this season shows that even though Buffy is this extraordinary person who can fight evil and even stop apocalypses there are things where she even has to take a seat and feel helpless. "Wow you spared her" spoke too soon.
It’s truly miraculous to think that we, on this small planet, an infinitesimally tiny part of a vast Universe, are able to, through science and imagination, penetrate so deeply into the mysteries of the Universe. That’s what the scene with Willow and Tara on the roof makes me think of.
Imo, the Queller Demon is the scariest creature in the whole show, the stuff of nightmares. When I first saw the episode as a kid, I was paranoid the Queller was crawling around my bedroom. I don’t cry a lot but damn Sergio, you tearing up at Joyce’s realization that Dawn is not hers had me misty-eyed. This is why I love your reactions guys! In the long run, I don’t think Buffy and Riley would’ve worked out, even if he had stayed. The same issues would always be there. Unfortunately, Riley wants to feel needed and Buffy isn’t always so open with her struggles, even with her friends. Neither is wrong per se, but they ultimately were just not compatible. Get ready Sergio and Cody because the season just gets more emotional as we go along!
Re: 5x10 -- I've been looking forward to you two reacting to this. It's a controversial episode with the fans. Most are on Buffy's side and think Riley is being selfish and unreasonable and Xander is totally wrong. You seem to have more of a nuanced opinion, that both sides have some validity, that partners who aren't communicating can end up in a tangle and that Xander at least cared enough to say something.
I'm one of the (too) few who loved Riley a lot, and I was actually sad to see him go. He's such a great guy! But he and Buffy was _not_ right for each other. She couldn't give him what he needed, and he should have communicated his feelings and needs a long time ago. Even though he tried once (the whole "I can't touch you" speech) he should have spoken up again when he didn't notice a difference. She couldn't let herself be vulnerable with him but that's how we humans basically build trust and love in a real relationship. But they are both also very young so there is that to consider too. (Riley & Xander would have been a better match imo.)
I think they were good for each other when they got together, and both grew from the relationship. Then they weren't anymore and it was better for them to break up. A relationship doesn't have to last forever to be worthwhile. 💜
Don't you think a sensitive partner needs to allow their partner to give their attention to other important people in a crisis? My partner would be cooking meals, driving me around, doing the dishes and going shopping for me and my mum if I was caring for her in a time of need. I would expect nothing less. Getting butt-hurt because I've not got the extra emotional energy to soothe their feelies at the same time would be a big problem. He's centering himself and it's immature af. (which I get and can justify, but that's not the story the writers chose to focus on, instead it's all about how Buffy is so closed off....)
@@Bobbin_Hoode That wasn't the issue though. She didn't call him to let him know what was going on, he had to hear it all from Spike. She _wouldn't let him_ be there for her, that was the issue. He was the rebound guy after Angel (and effing Parker) and as Xander said, she expected him to show up when she asked and for him to take off when she didn't need him anymore. Also, their issues started way before Joyce got sick, this was just the culmination of all the frustration and feeling unloved for a long time. That does mess people up irl too, and if you've never experienced that for yourself you can't really understand what that's like, how it feels to be in that position. Though that doesn't justify him going to get his blood sucked, and as I wrote in my first post, he should have talked to Buffy way before the situation they ended up in in this episode.
15:00 i mean Dawn is more like Buffy's daughter than Joyce's(biolagically). Because she is created from Buffy's blood. Its like "virgin Mary" situation😅
Ah, Cody, you're a word nerd like me. 😄I love etymology and linguistics as a whole. Maybe I should have studied that at uni instead of what I went for. I love finding out the roots of words and how they've evolved through time and place to end up in different languages and also, if I'm learning a language, I love to see where and how they intersect. For me, the answer to that frequently asked question - "which superpower would you have?" - would be to not only speak and understand every language, but also understand how they all fit together.
5x09 Riley's first instinct isn't to work with the Scoobies, it is to gather together soldiers. Riley wants Buffy to do what she is doing in the kitchen on his shoulder, but that won't just happen only because they are dating. This is another issue Riley ignored when she was talking about slayer and soldier stuff not mixing as well as he assumed back in _Doomed._ She didn't cry in front of Angel so much as he was the reason for her crying. There is a difference between the two and he's thinking one when she did the other. She didn't cry to her friends when Angel became Angelus, either. I love the idea of Dawn calling for Buffy while Buffy is crying before Buffy hears her the second time. Tension without doing so in the traditional "cannot scream at all" way. Giles saying, "killer snot monster from outer space" as well as Xander's car/planet joke just before are incredibly amusing. 5x10 Buffy didn't love Riley in the same way he claimed to love her. That doesn't give Riley the excuses he does. Buffy and Riley wanted different things out of the relationship. She states at the end of S4 Riley was supposed to be the boring, casual boyfriend. A rebound as it were. Riley unintentionally screwed her plan up by being a member of The Initiative, so she dumped him in _Doomed,_ and after he called her "stupid" for the decision he didn't fully understand (and Buffy was trying to come to terms with herself - witch is why she shouldn't have been dating), she gave him a chance. Everything about their relationship was bad communication based. From not telling each other about the slayer and Initiative aspects, to _Hush,_ to Riley's heart problems, to jealousy issues, to him purposely getting bit by vampires, to this episode. The issues Riley had with Buffy are things he could have talked to her about. By not doing so, and when losing his sense of self when The Initiative fell, his jealousy issues, which were already an issues starting in _The Yoko Facttor_ kicked into higher gear with _Buffy Versus Dracula._ Riley latched onto Buffy as a way to replace the hole The Initiative left, becoming as Graham said, "Mission's boyfriend." Everything Riley says in this episode's argument between the two, is him justifying the actions of his drug and prostitute metaphor while trying to throw blame on Buffy for not loving him as if he'd talked to her about it before. He's thrown this blame before at the end of _The Yoko Factor_ when Buffy asked why he was "crazy" with the jealousy. His respnse was I love you so much I had to. That puts his issues on her shoulders in both situations. She loves him in a casual dating way and he's obsessive about her needing him, and is in denial about it. Where as Buffy has tried actively talking to him numerous times. It ended up resulting in getting no long-term progress towards either of their issues. Riley wanted to comfort Buffy; to give his life that purpose of "Mission's boyfriend." Buffy's personality was already struggling with Riley wanting to do that as she is a strong, independent woman and The Slayer. Buffy opens up to people and allows them to take care of her the way Riley was asking when they don't push her into said action, and when she trusts the relationship enough. It took Giles until the end of _Helpless_ before Buffy opened up to him that way (22 months). Riley has known Buffy 14 months and they have only been dating 11 months. If he was patient and didn't push her into things she needed to get into naturally, like trying to lean her head on his shoulder when that wasn't her natural reaction (and leave his jealousy behind), eventually she would have allowed him to "take care of her." Being "on top of everything" is in her job description. Riley's reaction to not getting those things from Buffy was negative in every way. A part of Buffy's issues are that she feels that she has to be as emotionally strong as she is physically. Riley never figured that out because he is the one that was dependent on her. How Riley handles the fallout of this episode is a natural progression of their relationship, but could have been avoided if the two comminicated. Xander in the alley brought up some good points concerning Buffy and Riley's relationship, but the fact that he waited two months and nine days (seven episodes) after learning from Riley Buffy doesn't love him shows it was more about saying 'I told you so' (as he stated he loves to do in the _Enemies_ episode) rather than helping the relationship. A mention people claim he makes is that it wasn't good enough if it wasn't direct. But things were ony getting worse in Buffy and Riley's relationship and no in-universe character noticed what Xander was trying to say. This episode's alley scene is too little too late. Xander identifies with Riley when Riley tells Xander Buffy doesn't love Riley. Xander is remembering Buffy turning him down in _Prophecy Girl_ (and blocking out his own toxic reaction). Therefore when Buffy and Riley's relationship implodes, Xander guilts Buffy into chasing the helicopter ("He's never held back with you," "think about what you're about to lose.") Xander shows he isn't acknowledging what Riley has done and just continues to blame Buffy. Riley's ultimatum would have lead to just as many problems in the Buffy/Riley relationship as they already have if Buffy had caught up to the helicopter. None of these things seem to phase Xander. He is just identifying with Riley and therefore sees Riley as in the right even after Buffy tells him all he's done. Buffy and Riley's problems are a reason to let Riley go and not chase after him. Buffy turning the exact same issues on Xander by calling him out on, and saying it about him and Anya, shows he has his own issues to deal wth. Buffy wanted casual with Riley and was unconciously always keeping it that way. Xander and Anya are serious and its still acknowledged as a problem Xander hasn't dealt with until Buffy calls him on it. Xander didn't, and wouldn't, have saved the Riley/Buffy relationship. He waited too long and preferred to say, 'I told you so.' Buffy said something soon enough for Xander to help his issue with Anya (which is rare for him as he doesn't like dealing with his issues and that is why he's always up in other character's issues). Xander states in other episodes indirectly that being the only guy his age in a mostly group of females is hard. He didn't want to be the only other male figure his age in the group. That combined with identifying with Riley made what he said to Buffy wrong, despite the fact that Buffy not loving Riley is not as truthful as Riley wants to believe. He just wanted her to like him more than casually, but became obsessive about his own issues.
@@liabowden8526 Riley or Xander!?I took out a section saying how similar the two are in that regard. That combined with you not saying which one your talking about has me wondering which one your referencing.
I don't think this is a spoiler - I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be implied by this point - summoning the Queller to "clean up after" Glory is because the large influx of mentally ill people in Sunnydale at the moment is because of Glory feeding on them. They've mentioned a couple times how there are more and more people in the psych ward of the hospital, etc... and the Queller targets specifically those people. That's how Ben is cleaning up after Glory. :( That scene with Joyce and Buffy talking about Dawn in the hospital gets me every time. And when she says, "my sweet, brave Buffy" to Buffy, it gets me choked up, makes me think of my own Mom, just... too many feels.
Hated Xander's little sermon, which was more about his own relationship, hated that Buffy fell for it, but loved that Riley had no peripheral vision. I remember being incredibly happy when he left. 😈
As someone who has watched a loved one die of a brain tumor - yes, people will absolutely scream, shout, and say terrible things and have no idea that they're doing it. It is normal and terrifying and devastating.
Secret unprotected sex with random strangers as retaliation in a relationship is a garbage bag move. I didn't dislike Riley until the very end, and then I couldn't wait for that helicopter to go the F away.
16:06 right. Everybody knows we don't have to wait for a full anymore. We did what the Werewolves couldn't and now we get to go out regardless of the full moon...gods this sounded funnier in my head. (For i have ADHD/Autism, so technically i qualify as crazy.) 😂😂😂 Also that scene with Joyce and Buffy talking about Dawn, makes me sob every single time. It's so beautifully done. Edit: the problem with Riley is he never communicated these issues with Buffy. And he made what she was going through with her mother about himself. They frame the whole thing as if Buffy was deliberately being cold, but she wasn't. She legit did not know there was even a problem until this episode. Like this whole arc frustrates me, especially when you look at it from Buffy's perspective, because it feels like there's an entire Seasonal arc missing. I know the writers wanted Riley gone so they could focus on Dawn but to be honest they should have just had him leave with Graham when he had the surgery. Maybe he had to go to a special military hospital that was set up to help the soldiers that were effected by Maggie Walsh's experiments. That would have felt more organic than this because there just isn't enough here to justify why Riley feels this way. After she (eventually) told Riley about her entire history with Angel she has always been upfront with him. She has always been honest emotionally so Riley feeling emotionally neglected just doesn't make sense to me. Hell it would have been better executed had they just made it about him not being a Super-Soldier anymore rather than dressing up a one-sided emotional neglect issue as being a two people problem. If you're in a relationship and one person doesn't know there's a problem then you need to communicate that problem so they can fix it. But Riley didn't do this, he just let his own insecurity fester and cause a mountain when there wasn't even a molehill, and he's doing it at a time when Buffy is likely emotionally and mentally all over the place. I love Season 5. As a whole it's brilliantly done, but how they handled Riley's exit was pretty weak and it's framed as if it's Buffy's fault, when it actually isn't, cause she wasn't even aware there was a problem because she was focussing on her mum being poorly. Hell, Giles, Willow, and Xander had even taken over patrolling duties to make it more manageable for her, all Riley did was mope about her being emotionally unavailable at a time where she was terrified and had to be strong emotionally. Not just for herself, but for Dawn and Joyce too.
I think Riley was an 'unlucky' character in the show, in that many fans couldn't stand him, somewhat unfairly really, but he was never gonna replace Angel or even Spike as far as fans were concerned in relation to Buffy. Some very interesting dialogue in this episode where everyone is speaking truth and it isn't what they want to hear. Buffy is of course feeling betrayed that Riley is getting satisfaction away from her, it suits Spike to tell her this as he is now infatuated with her. I think we can see Xander's character having grown so much where he has gone from sex mad teenager to philosophical adult, giving great advice all round, proving how the he has matured over the Seasons.
Oh guys, you are not prepared emotionally for what's coming... This season is amazing. It's the best for me, beginning to end. A lot will happen. Sarah Michelle Gellar show one of her best performance this season. Enjoy your ride in the Buffyverse guys !
Not to get too trauma dumpee so I’ll stick to quite detached? language. I haven’t seen these episodes since my grandfather was diagnosed (and passed) from a brain tumour. Used to rewatch Buffy every year and this is the first time in four that I’ve gone through it so thank you(!) for making this so enjoyable and fun. As to whether or not these are actual symptoms of having a brain tumour, I’m obviously not an expert but it’s similar to our experience. His personality and behaviour changed a lot and randomly. My granddad was always very kooky and weird (think Anthony Hopkins in both behaviour AND looks, which has a few funny horror related stories attached to it) but he became distant or had random moments of judgement that was not him. I prefer to remember him as he was though, because he was like my version of Joyce. He made sure everyone knew they were loved and welcome.
Riley gets too much hate. He was the perfect rebound, college relationship for Buffy. He gave up going away with Graham in the first place to join the army group, and ppl just gloss over that. Buffy kept him out of her professional life, and Riley wanted in. He made a big mistake with getting his blood drawn so to speak, that was to show how frustrated he was and trying to be part of the Supernatural world however he could. Still, they both matured and needed things the other couldn’t give, it’s the way of the world..I also don’t blame Buffy for running to talk to Riley before he took off..she realized she reacted to what Riley said defensively with no time to think, she just wanted to objectively try to work it out..she wasn’t running to tell him “everything is great it was all my fault let’s be lovers again” she just needed to talk to him when she wasn’t simply reacting in pain. Yes, it was wrong of him to only give her a couple hours ultimatum, but that’s how it worked out.
I have mixed feelings about the Xander speech. From his pov, I see where he’s coming from, but Riley needed to be let go. Their relationship styles/needs aren’t compatible…
Xander is just pointing out to Buffy that Riley is her rebound guy-snd That he doesn’t deserve this. Riley is so in love with Buffy, but she just got out of an epic love story with Angel/ first love. The feelings aren’t equal in this relationship. Xander doesn’t tell her that she should choose Riley absolutely: he’s just saying « if you aren’t able to give him all of you, and all your love maybe you should let him go instead of stringing him along. But if you decide that this relationship is worth saving and that you can treat him better, than go after him , and tell him how you feel. »
I will never agree with Xander, though...Riley could have communicated better, he could have dealt with his insecurity and jealousy better. He could have asked for help...but addiction tells us we can't do that. It tells us that IT is the only way to feel better. And it breaks my heart. But none of that is Buffy's fault. She has walls, yes, but no one is responsible for anyone else's actions. Riley is responsible for not communicating enough, not leaving when he should have, for lying and hiding things. His leaving was his choice entirely. Xander/the writers should not have blamed her for Riley's choices. Xander's speech was trash and I'll never forgive him for it. (5.10) (And, just to be clear, I've always liked Riley and still do. I think his fall into the addiction was telegraphed for a good while, so it didn't strike me as sudden. And their downfall was also built up to, even though it probably felt sudden for Buffy. But I've always been fond of him, his earlier wholesomeness...he's like cornbread in the shape of a man. But he simply wasn't what Buffy really needed/wanted. He was meant to be an Angel rebound and, unfortunately, would never have gone much beyond that.)
Yeah, that kid needed therapy and time, he was so immature and pretty emotionally stilted after his whiole identity was blown up along with his reanimated mother figure. I sympathise but hate that the writers chose to make it a Buffy problem, not a Riley problem.
Have you guys considered watching The Magicians? If youre not familiar, think if Harry Potter was in grad school when he learned about magic, but also there’s Narnia and intense horror and hilarious comedy? (The mention of “lunatics” made me think of it). ❤
S5 was so hard hitting, another brilliant episode showing the real anguish and anxiety when a parent becomes ill, and the trauma of having to deal with it for the children. Even though we know Buffy is strong she breaks down doing the washing up, and cries her eyes out, great acting. Again we see Dawn being the focus of strange reactions to her which is really worrying her now, and also we see Spike's obsession with Buffy becoming stronger, and Ben of course isn't what he seems. The Queller demon was one of the worst in the series . Another really good episode from S5. This strangely scores a low IMDB score of only 7.0, it's much better than that.
Since Christmas is coming soon, i'm hoping you guys react to Better Watch Out (2017). Pugapillar reacted to it a couple years ago and he would be the first to tell you to go into it knowing absolutely nothing other than that there's a mid credit scene
I feel kind of sorry for Sandy. She's at The Bronze, and Vampire Willow turns her. She's trying to exist without killing people, so she getting money for biting people but not draining them. She has a moment of hope, and then Buffy kills her. 🤷♂️ Riley did try to get Buffy to open up to him, but she kept putting him off. She was distracted, and everything finally came to a head.
I think they were a good couple that just failed because of poor communication in the end. If they had more time they could’ve worked it out. Riley needed to find a purpose and Buffy needed to let him in more. Like when Joyce got sick, all she had to do was let him know about it.
What I can't wrap my head around from this episode is the fake stake. It's dismissed in the episode as just some vampire hunting gear that Riley has, but WHY would he have it? Making a fake wooden stake from plastic is (a) far more expensive than whittling down a real stake, (b) probably had to be custom made - and remember, this is an era before internet shopping really took off - and (c) absolutely useless. Vampires don't need to be intimidated - and again, if you were planning to intimidate a vamp but not kill them, a real (much cheaper) stake will do the trick just fine. Literally the only use I can think of is if a vamp has a weird being-staked kink (which, to be fair, Spike definitely has, but why does RILEY have one of these).
So Joyce was in a super natural state and normal causes? I always confuse the two and or still don’t know. Cause if it’s normal how did she still se Dawn as the key and in super natural state?
Loved the hospital bonding scene. Yay Willow dusting 2 vamps! She’s come a long way 🙌🏼 Riley you need therapy sir 🤦🏽♀️ Willow’s care package 💚 Nurse Ben I need to know what your deal is. He’s definitely sus! Tara/Willow stargazing was adorable 🖤 Ooo…falling creature from space? These poor patients & nobody listening to them 😢 Ugh Joyce is breaking my heart 💔 Poor Dawn 😭 Giles stays reading Xander 😂 Buffy crying always makes me cry. Yes Dawn taking it to the monster! 🙌🏼 Spike randomly popping into Buffy’s house to steal pics of her tho 😂 Nurse Ben is connected to Glory?! 🤯 Buffy telling Joyce the truth about Dawn! All the feels 😭 Such an interesting concept for a monster. I hope Joyce makes it through! I’m liking Cody’s theory on the Ben/Glory connection & the parallels 🤔 Love everyone being there during her surgery. The intro cutaway before finding out the results was so uncalled for! So relieved the surgery was a success 💚 Anya’s dry sense of humor always SENDS me 💀 Spike turning into a lowkey stalker tho. Initiative trying to get Riley back. Spike getting Buffy to show her what Riley’s been up too. That bedroom scene tho 😂 CAUGHT in the act. Not Spike pretending he cares about Riley. Buffy seriously can’t catch a break like ever 🤦🏽♀️ Not Anya & Willow beefing 😳 Buffy going after the vamp nest. Buffy committing arson! Riley coming for Spike! Staking him with a plastic stake threw me for a loop. Spike admitting his infatuation with Buffy to Riley! 🤯 “Getting suck jobs from two-bit vampire trulls” was WILD 😂 Oof that Spike/Riley cemetery scene tho. That Riley/Buffy confrontation 😳 It did sound like an emotional manipulation ultimatum honestly. The vamps surrounding Buffy & her taking them all out 🔥 The shock of her sparing her then launching that stake tho 🤯 Xander following Buffy to have her vent & helping her figure things out. Of course she JUST missed him. Xander has had so much growth! Love him & Anya 💚 I was never fully in on the Buffy/Riley relationship but it’s still sad to see the relationship dissolve. I think he’s a good guy but they just didn’t fit together. She has a lot on her plate & they both weren’t able to give it their all & give the other what they truly needed. These episodes were another two that hit you right in the feels. Excited to see what happens next with Glory still out there! Absolutely killing these reactions y’all 🖤
No one will ever convince me Riley was right, Buffy was at fault, or Xander is a good friend. Riley had a mission and purpose with the Initiative. When that was gone, so was his sense of self, so he projected it all on his relationship with Buffy, and it wasn't enough - for him. So what does he do? Does he talk to Buffy like a mature adult and phych major? Or does he whine to Xander and pout a lot and walk off like a hurt puppy whenever Buffy doesn't "need" him , and get his emotional "fix" from vampires feeding on him. And yes, that last bit is cheating. Then, when he Does open up about his feelings with Buffy, its only because he Got Caught cheating and to deliver a freakin' Ultimatum?!? No. Go run away and join the army or the circus or whatever, just go, and maybe grow up . Buffy is the Slayer. The weight of the world on her shoulders, the leader in the fight against supernatural badness. Her mother is seriously ill. Her sister is a mystical "key" planted in her life to be protected from a mysterious and powerful being Buffy has yet to beat in a fight. Her friend group support system is there, but it's also proven in the past to be fickle with its support. Buffy has always internalized her anguish - after she died, after she killed Angel, after Angel came back. She's not a boohoo damsel in distress Riley needs her to be. Angel was never my ideal for Buffy, but she did have actual conversations with him, and in season 2 & 3, that wound up biting her in the a** (he turned evil and ultimately left her), so no wonder she's reserved about her feelings. Xander is just a d!ck. His conversation with Riley a while back would have been a good time to talk to his friend and give her a heads up on her boyfriend's insecurity, but no. Instead he waits until she's at a low and comes after her. His lecture to her this episode was more his style. Funny, whenever he has to have a meaningful talk with Buffy it is just him being nasty and petty (Dead Man's Party, the Angel's Returned intervention, etc.) He knows Buffy, who she is and what she's going thru, probably more than Riley, and he dismissed Riley's actions as justified and Buffy's fault? People say he's still butt hurt over being friend-zoned by Buffy and he identifies with Riley, well yeah. I can see that. Both guys wanting more from Buffy than she is willing or able to give and getting all bent up about it. That's on them, not her.
I absolutely hate the episode with the queller demon. I put this off for a while, but I eventually watched it because I love you guys. I don't know that I can say I'll do that for all episodes going forward, but it was worth it for this set of episodes.
I feel like Into the Woods was Joss Whedon justifying cheating on his wife. Think about it, he had the writers make Riley sympathetic. Riley. The cheater. Then he had the writers make his self insert character (Xander) force Buffy to listen to the justifications of Riley cheating. I hate Into the Woods and I feel like I'm not alone in my distaste for it.
Happy "Buffy, the Vampire Slayer" Friday evening with Cody & Sergio! 😊 Hope that you both had a great Thanksgiving. Episode 5x09: Glory sends a creature from outer space to find the Key. And it targets Joyce. Love that opening scene with Buffy, Joyce, and Dawn. And while Buffy's at the hospital with her mom, the Scoobies take over her patrolling. And yay...Willow got two vamps. That creature that Glory sends used to freak me out. Still kinda does. LOL! Episode 5x10: Buffy finds out where Riley goes to at night. Riley's friend Graham tries to get him back into the military. I wasn't a fan of the Riley/Buffy pairing, but was a little sad to see him go. Already looking forward to next week's episode reactions. 😊
5-9: No, Glory didn't summon the Queller. Remember the minion demon asking Ben why HE summoned the Queller? Because he was cleaning up Glory's mess, like he always has. And it isn't there to find the Key, it is there to eliminate all the people made insane by Glory sucking their sanity out, but it just targets anyone showing the signs of that insanity, and Joyce's symptoms qualify. Interestingly, Ben is going against Glory's wishes in that regard. Check this reaction starting at about 13:57. Xander theorized that Glory was the summoner, because "who else?" The Scoobies have no knowledge of the idea that there's some kind of connection between Ben and Glory, so Xander's theory is reasonable, albeit wrong.
When we first watched "into the woods", i was like "well obviously she's not actually running to Riley because of all the stuff that's just happened between them. This is a classic Joss Whedon misdirect, so she's running to somebody else. It can't be spike, but I can't imagine who else it would be". When it was revealed that she was actually running to catch Riley, my wife and I asked each other what the fuck was happening.
Exactly, Riley just cheated on her AGAIN (same vampire, but still) gives Buffy a fucking ultimatum, Xander basically tells her to suck it up and walk it off, and Whedon somehow doesn't see a fucking problem with the situation. In a strong feminist show, for fuck's sake. I never liked Riley, but this definitely made me hate him.
@@ShadowThundercat-u1eTo be fair, he tells her if she can't be what Riley needs, she should let him go; if she thinks she can, and wants to, be with Riley, then letting him go because she's annoyed with him is a mistake. He is not telling her to go after him period - he's saying make a choice. Of course, being Xander, he waited way to long to tell her that her and Riley need to make some time to really talk. Both Buffy and Riley were remiss in not communicating; Riley needed to stop giving Buffy so much space thinking everything was fine between them, and much earlier.
I'm so glad you both understood that what Xander told Buffy was right and needed. He was being a great, true friend at that moment. She had shut herself off from Riley like she never did with anyone else, including Spike, oddly. Riley was wrong to handle his issues with illicit vampire suck jobs, but he was looking for a way to handle his issues without dumping on Buffy while she was dealing with Glory and Joyce's illness. He didn't force this moment on her now, Spike did. And he did it for selfish reasons. And Xander had been calling Riley out on his behavior, without knowing the depth of what Riley was doing with vampires. He was being a great friend to Riley as well. Xander's a character who sees a lot, which is why he's the "heart" of the Scoobies. And his speech to Anya at the end was beautiful. So sad to see Riley go, as he was a genuinely good guy. It's a shame Buffy realized what she had with him too late.
Ohh, I so hard disagree. Xander is projecting because he remembers his own unrequited crush on Buffy and Riley is basically his idol. Riley wasn't making himself available in a useful way, and was reacting to her caring for her family as a personal slight. He thinks she's shutting him out when she's actually at breaking point and is largely shut down around everything except the immediate medical crisis in her family. I mean - He couldn't have been washing the dishes and been background guy for a few days? Then he throws an ultimatum at her after being angry at her for catching him cheating... Buffy was right to let him go at that point because he was trying to force her to 'prove' she loves him under duress. I do actually have sympathy for Riley - the military should have made damn sure he got some therapy after what happened, he lost his entire identity and Buffy was all he had to hold on to - Which isn't a healthy dynamic. Riley got toxic and Xander stirred the pot.
Way back when this originally aired, I was a lot kinder to Riley. He was at loose ends, had no meaning in his life (and was doing jack squat to find any), and now he's emotionally addicted to being vamp bait. But now, I'm like, byyyyye. You had eons of time to talk to Buffy about your issues but didn't, and now you're only willing to give her 5 seconds to process that you essentially cheated on her or you're out? Hit the road, Jack, and don't you come back no more no more.
I actually never like riley, I think his purpose and path he was goin gon was completely destroyed and he lost his way. He relied heavily on his relationship with buffy and that isnt enough. he was missing soething and he was never truly honest with how he felt about everything thats been happening with her. Anyways not a fan of his. Sorry
"The killer snot-monster from outer space" is so gross! 🤢 Ben is certainly there a lot. I'm glad that Joyce knows, accepts and wants to protect Dawn too. Joyce is an awesome mom. ❤ I started to think that Anya might be a bit autistic coded and it makes me love her more now that I know that I'm autistic (late diagnosed in my late 30s and still learning to love myself and being kind to myself and understanding why I never feel like I belong anywhere) so I relate to her since she's very blunt sometimes and doesn't know all the social cues, since she's a former demon. "She's newly human and strangely literal." - Anya describing me. 😅 I also like that Anya's knowledge about different demons comes in clutch a lot + she's hilarious and sarcastic. My kind of woman. 😍 Bye bye, Riley. I don't think that the writers knew what to do with him so it was best to let him leave. Marc Blucas is a wonderful and fun guy IRL tho so no hate. ❤ The rest of this season will blow your minds! 🤯 Can't wait to watch your reactions! I've come to adore you both so much. Your discussion after every episode is so genuine, thoughtful and great to hear. 💖 Happy Thanksgiving, have a nice day, don't get killed! 😁
“To be all alone, even when you’re holding her…”
There’s nothing I love more than a poetic Spike roast.
he’s a savage
Spike is such an ass in the best possible way.
That scene between Buffy and Joyce at the hospital when they are talking about Dawn just gets to me every time! It is such a tender scene both of the actors knock it out the park!
Super sappy lines don’t often get me but “oh, Buffy.. My sweet, brave Buffy” makes me tear up every time I see it
I haven't seen these episodes in a long time, but seeing how Buffy the character is reacting is stirring up feelings when my Mom was terminally ill and how I was trying to keep it together in public but breaking down in private. They did a good job portraying this grief
I went through the same thing with my mom as well. It has made this season mostly unwatchable ever since she passed because it's just too real
I think Buffy and Riley were right for each other when they got together, and both grew a lot from the relationship. Then they weren't anymore, and it was better for them to break up. A relationship doesn't have to last forever to be worthwhile. 💜
Yes..when ppl really diss Riley I always defend him..he was the right guy at the right time for Buffy, and like 99% of rebound or college relationships they were both still maturing and grew apart. No bad guys here, it just was. Riley’s judgement on the whole “getting some weirdness on the side” is the most questionable behavior, but it’s his only “safe” way of dipping his toes in the supernatural world that Buffy is a natural part of, and seems that Buffy tries to insulate him from.
"She's not mine, is she?" Heartbreaking. Whew.......
Joyce character evolution is so great.
Buffy and her mom scene, when Joyce asked about Dawn... so emotional and beautiful.
I'll never agree with Buffy running after Riley. He said he wanted to be there to take care of her, but it wasn't for her benefit. It was for his.
right Riley was so selfish this season for sure. Buffy was literally going through it and did not have the emotional bandwidth and Riley was still like me me me.
Exactly, it's not her fault Riley doesn't have a life outside of their relationship anymore. And he kept flaking on her when she did genuinely need him. He's the best fighter out of the non-superpowered Scoobies, but when Buffy asked him to help cover patrols because she was emotionally and/or physically compromised he either pointlessly risked his life to do it solo or blew it off to cheat on her with vampires. He could have been a big help on a more personal level in this episode if he'd checked in on Buffy to see how she was doing, what with Joyce having brain cancer and all - this rough night would have been a lot more manageable if Riley, someone who's got more emotional distance from the situation and was a psychology TA, had stayed over to help look after Joyce and keep Buffy and Dawn company. But nope, back to the military he goes. He just kept hearing what lined up with the insecurities he already had (she probably didn't want you patrolling in episode five because you were still recovering from your heart nearly exploding the week before, dumbass, not because she thought you were useless.)
This episode only proved me that the main author could not admit his mistakes and would rather blame someone else for that. And a striking example of this is Riley/Buffy storyline.
She was having all these problems and all he could think of was "what about me". He cheated on her with that vampire, he did it to feel physical need from other person, which is the equivalent of s/x, then after she confronted him HE blamed her for what he did and even gave her an ultimatum that she must somehow declare her love for him and that she needs him right now, otherwise he will leave. And after that they get other character to tell her that SHE was stupid, that she was wrong and that she should forget all this and run for him immidiately, because "he's the one that comes along once in a lifetime". What? Are they okay there? The author is completely unaware of how ridiculous it looks like.
They just really wanted to end things this way. This storyline failed due to a lack of chemistry actually and because the plot didn't work the way they wanted. But instead of admitting it, that this just didn't work so it wasn't meant to be, they practically blamed Buffy for this and made her chase that guy while he walked away with his head held high because he has not repented. And the narrative fully supports this. Because they needed to blame someone other than themselves for their poor choice. Because they are too arrogant.
@@Junejane4 It's also a jarring change from the preceding episodes. Up until episode 10, it's not really framed as Buffy's fault - Xander is critical of _Riley's_ behaviour several times in the episodes leading up to Into the Woods and never gives any indication he thinks Buffy has any culpability for whatever's going on in Riley's head, right up until this episode, where he suddenly changes his tune completely and now it's all Buffy's fault. And his tune changes _back_ pretty quickly after Riley leaves.
It's like this episode wandered in from a parallel universe where the storyline had subtle but crucial differences, because not only does it not fully fit what the season had been leading up to, it makes _Xander_ more culpable in their breakup than Buffy, because he knew Riley was going through some shit and he didn't sit Riley down for a talk. That would have been fine if he'd just stuck to the comments he gave Riley in the preceding episodes, because they all had bigger things on their minds and there wasn't much of an indication that Xander was such a huge Buffy/Riley shipper before this episode, but the speech and his comments in the previous few episodes undercut each other. He's now lecturing Buffy about how blind she was not to see a situation that Riley deliberately kept hidden from everyone _except Xander,_ who knew about it and neither told her Riley was having issues and recommended couples therapy, nor talked it over with Riley.
I actually don't mind this plot up until episode 10, but the way it ends kills it for me.
After years of picking this to death, I don’t mind it. Buffy did take Riley absolutely for granted, yes, she has overwhelming things, but still..Riley was a huge part of a secret thing, a valued member, and he decided to stay in Sunnydale for Buffy, and ppl just gloss over that in favor of Buffy’s viewpoint. They ultimately didn’t learn the lessons from “Hush,” and didn’t communicate well. However, Riley was the right guy at the right time, then they both matured and had different needs. No need to assign blame. Buffy was hurt, she had a snap reaction, then decided it was worth talking to Riley again before he left forever, so running to catch him isn’t a weakness on Buffy’s part..
Buffy had bad experiences opening up to her friends and family. When she had to kill Angel, everyone was pushing her to get over it and be "fun normal Buffy again". She had ptsd, ran away and got blamed for it so now she bottles in everything. I think them being vulnerable around each other would have helped both of them. Riley telling Xander that Buffy didn't love him, instead of directly talking to her is also when it all started to go wrong for him mentally. I agree, he also needed to find purpose, get his own friends and not make Buffy the center of his life. I think Buffy does love him, but she's not an emotional teenager anymore to be crying and stressing like she was with Angel, she's an adult and has other responsibilities.
Yep overall her so-called "friends" treat Buffy like $hit (looking you seasons 6 and 7)
Spike and Anya are my favorite characters. They’re both heavily flawed, lol, but they are so entertaining!
I love Cody's Fun Facts! I never thought about the word "lunatic" having "luna" in it before.
In Russian, the moon is “Luna”, with the accent on the last syllable. And “lunatic” also has accent on “a”. So, it's pretty obvious; but it also works the other way. In a cartoon “Nu Pogodi” there is a scene where one of the characters thinks (erroneously) that he is on the Moon, greeted by Moon people. So, he says “Hi, lunatics”.
The sad truth of the end of Buffy/Riley is how right both of them were. She shuts herself off from others routinely, shares almost nothing, and leaves others waiting for her to open back up to them....and Riley came into the show a young man at the top of his game, used to being needed, being more able than most, and being the person others turn to in a crisis. His ego couldn't take being shut out, being convenient but unnecessary. He gave up the world that made sense to him to be with someone that amazed him...and then wasn't really an essential component in that new world. If, theoretically, they'd communicated a LOT more openly, its the kind of thing people can move past...but not this time, not this show.
A lot of other mysteries are unfolding, and theres nothing I can say and stay spoiler free, so I'll keep mum until the time is right. Meanwhile, I love your post analyses...and convos...plus...huzzah for etymology!! As a word lover its great to see some other people with the same passion for the roots of language and colloquialism.
I had a neighbor with brain cancer. (Unfortunately, she didn’t make it) I can attest that the speech filters pretty much disappear. It’s a real thing.
However, she was such a rascal we started suspecting that she was cussing us out even when her brain temporarily recovered!
S5 is my fave because the arc/storyline really flows so nicely throughout the whole season.It's really solid and tells a great story.
I always know when Sergio is gonna get teary, he is very consistent,I am surprised you don't have some tissues near you by now! :)
I always cry at that scene where Joyce says “She’s not mine, is she?” Every time.
And I always celebrate when Riley leaves, lol. I was mostly bored by him in season 4, but I HATED him in season 5. He needed to use his big boy words and communicate sooner than this. Like, he told XANDER, but not her. His demand that she ~immediately~ be okay with everything, or he’s leaving is so frustrating. He also didn’t seem to have a purpose other than Buffy, which was an issue. Did he even have a job? Who knows?
These episodes feel like such a wind down from so much drama but worry not, there are many more twists and turns, fun adventures and surely tears to come before this show is over.
Nobody will ever be able to convince me that what Xander said was good for Buffy. Everything he told Buffy she should do (end it, make it a clean break, etc.), she did! And yet, it wasn't enough because Xander had his own issues. I hated that conversation and that she ended up running after Riley. Ignoring the meta of needing to get rid of Riley because he had no story left so they could move on with the season, it's just absolutely idiotic that he would give her an ultimatum days after her Mom went through something so scary. Give her some time, man. In an otherwise stellar season (my favorite!), the write-out of Riley was really poorly done IMO. (I know some will disagree, but I've rewatched this dozens of times over the last 25 years, read all the differing viewpoints, and my stance has never changed.)
Absolutely. Xander is a selfish ass and after his behaviour in the S2 finale you'd think he'd stop projecting his issues all over Buffy's life.
But nooooo. He's going to make her feel bad for reacting in a sensible way to somebody who feels justified being aggressive and yelling at her for HIS choices then dropping an ultimatum like that.
I didn't see it the first time I watched (as an early 20-something). But EVERY time since I'm like, get your hands off her, stop YELLING at her and stop being snarky because she's not giving you cookies while her mum has surgery!
I've always thought of Riley getting, ahem, sucked...as more like an addiction than cheating. It doesn't appear any more sensual than usual vampirism (always with an air of sexiness), but definitely seems like he's in a trap house. It feels more to me like an addiction driven by the utter loss of everything (literally everything he worked for and believed in for years fell apart) and all he has left is Buffy, but he feels she doesn't love or need him...he feels useless. He's lost his identity. He's lost everything but Buffy and feels like he's losing her, too. So, he turns to what equates to a drug. I've always felt so sad for him here. (5.9)
I always felt it was more that he saw her being obsessed with the darker side of this world. With Angel she was full on obsessed and as Dawn told Riley "she doesn't get like that about you". And then there's Spike hovering around and Riley thinks there's something there too because Spike keeps poking that wound. So he went to discover more about it and got a bit too deep in.
Charlie Weber, who plays Ben the Nurse, went on to play Frank Delfino in “How to Get Away With Murder.”
37:48 true ... But when leaving the past behind and making a fresh start, they say it's best to not look back 🤷♀️ or you might stop yourself or second guess the decision 🤷♀️
Riley misreading Buffy's lack of attention for him as her not loving him, with all the context we have... I'm a well known Riley apologist among my friends because it's not his fault - He's a bit broken, and his whole identity is wrapped up in her after losing his entire structure, family, home....
But boooyyy. The dialogue says it all. 'You didn't cry once' he says...
He wasn't where she or the team needed him to be because he was all hurt feelies over her being legitimately distracted. He really built up the whole thing in his head and took it personally rather than being a grown up. His stupid 'Fine, I'll go where I'm *wanted* sulk face whenever she turns to her immediate family who are in literal crisis makes me so mad on rewatches!
And frankly Xander should just marry Riley himself. He's a selfish ass.
I've always detested how the majority of the blame is somehow placed on Buffy for Riley's departure.
It’s just that Buffy just got out of an epic relationship with Angel, and he was her first love also. So now Riley is kind of her rebound guy. But Riley is madly in love with her, so the feelings in this relationship aren’t equals. Xander is just saying: if you can’t love him a 100%, you should let him go and not string him along- - but if you think the relationship is worth saving, than go after him and tell him how you feel…
What? People hate Riley lol mostly for this episode. I think most reasonable people understand they just were not meant to be, because they both needed very different things from each other, and they both failed to communicate it.
@@valeriem.8112 maybe you want it to look like this but in fact it was not what was in the script. Xander really tried to convince her that the guy was the best she could have. And that he was doing his best while she was wrong and stupid because she didn't understand that. Xander then suggested her to "beg him to stay" and then he's like "oh, but if you don't want it then". Dude, you did everything to convince her otherwise. You don't care what she wants. You care about your opinion only.
Xander: You gonna let him go?
Buffy: It's not my decision to make.
Xander: Of course it is.
Buffy: Well, it's not fair!
Xander: *Who cares if it's fair?* In about twenty minutes, Riley's gonna disappear, maybe forever, *unless you do something to stop him.*
Buffy: What am I supposed to do? *Beg* him to stay?
Xander: *Why wouldn't you?* To keep Riley here you-
Buffy: I don't even know who he is anymore! I mean, I thought he was... dependable.
...
Xander: But you missed the point. You shut down, Buffy. And you've been treating Riley like the rebound guy. *When he's the one that comes along once in a lifetime* (HERE). He's never held back with you. He's risked everything. (WHAT?) And you're about to let him fly because you don't like ultimatums? (Actually yes, because that's manipulation) If he's not the guy, if what he needs from you just isn't there, let him go. Break his heart, and make it a clean break. But if you really think you can love this guy... I'm talking scary, messy, no-emotions-barred need (That they never had) ... if you're ready for that... then *think about what you're about to lose* (What exactly?)
Buffy: Xander...
Xander: *Run.*
He 100% convinces her.
AGREE.
This isn't even about Angel. This is about Riley having no other identity than 'Buffy's Lover' and when she's not got the emotional capacity because her mum might die (and because she's worried about Dawn - Literally the only piece of the puzzle she's holding back from him) he takes it super personally, listens to XANDER of all people, and has a massive tantrum rather than look around and ask 'why is Buffy busy all the time? Can I HELP in any way? Nooo, I'm gonna sulk instead...'
From the start, communication has been an issue between Buffy and Riley. They never told each other what they wanted from each other.
I love how giddy Willow is when she dusts the 2 vamps. I will say, my dad had cancer and some of the medications made him act very different. So even when it's not brain cancer specifically there can be mood changes due to other factors. I love how this season shows that even though Buffy is this extraordinary person who can fight evil and even stop apocalypses there are things where she even has to take a seat and feel helpless. "Wow you spared her" spoke too soon.
It’s truly miraculous to think that we, on this small planet, an infinitesimally tiny part of a vast Universe, are able to, through science and imagination, penetrate so deeply into the mysteries of the Universe.
That’s what the scene with Willow and Tara on the roof makes me think of.
Imo, the Queller Demon is the scariest creature in the whole show, the stuff of nightmares. When I first saw the episode as a kid, I was paranoid the Queller was crawling around my bedroom.
I don’t cry a lot but damn Sergio, you tearing up at Joyce’s realization that Dawn is not hers had me misty-eyed. This is why I love your reactions guys!
In the long run, I don’t think Buffy and Riley would’ve worked out, even if he had stayed. The same issues would always be there. Unfortunately, Riley wants to feel needed and Buffy isn’t always so open with her struggles, even with her friends. Neither is wrong per se, but they ultimately were just not compatible.
Get ready Sergio and Cody because the season just gets more emotional as we go along!
Im a fan of etymology too! you can learn so much about things by understanding their root meanings.
Re: 5x10 -- I've been looking forward to you two reacting to this. It's a controversial episode with the fans. Most are on Buffy's side and think Riley is being selfish and unreasonable and Xander is totally wrong. You seem to have more of a nuanced opinion, that both sides have some validity, that partners who aren't communicating can end up in a tangle and that Xander at least cared enough to say something.
As it pertains to Ben - "he doesn't even go here!"
Ah Riley "I cheated on you and constantly want you to make yourself small to quell my Ego BUT I am making an ultimatum" Finn - Whataguy!!! /sarcasm
Graham was always the real one.
I'm one of the (too) few who loved Riley a lot, and I was actually sad to see him go. He's such a great guy! But he and Buffy was _not_ right for each other. She couldn't give him what he needed, and he should have communicated his feelings and needs a long time ago. Even though he tried once (the whole "I can't touch you" speech) he should have spoken up again when he didn't notice a difference. She couldn't let herself be vulnerable with him but that's how we humans basically build trust and love in a real relationship. But they are both also very young so there is that to consider too. (Riley & Xander would have been a better match imo.)
I think they were good for each other when they got together, and both grew from the relationship. Then they weren't anymore and it was better for them to break up. A relationship doesn't have to last forever to be worthwhile. 💜
Don't you think a sensitive partner needs to allow their partner to give their attention to other important people in a crisis? My partner would be cooking meals, driving me around, doing the dishes and going shopping for me and my mum if I was caring for her in a time of need.
I would expect nothing less. Getting butt-hurt because I've not got the extra emotional energy to soothe their feelies at the same time would be a big problem. He's centering himself and it's immature af. (which I get and can justify, but that's not the story the writers chose to focus on, instead it's all about how Buffy is so closed off....)
@@Bobbin_Hoode That wasn't the issue though. She didn't call him to let him know what was going on, he had to hear it all from Spike. She _wouldn't let him_ be there for her, that was the issue. He was the rebound guy after Angel (and effing Parker) and as Xander said, she expected him to show up when she asked and for him to take off when she didn't need him anymore. Also, their issues started way before Joyce got sick, this was just the culmination of all the frustration and feeling unloved for a long time. That does mess people up irl too, and if you've never experienced that for yourself you can't really understand what that's like, how it feels to be in that position. Though that doesn't justify him going to get his blood sucked, and as I wrote in my first post, he should have talked to Buffy way before the situation they ended up in in this episode.
Cody I love etymology too! 😊 So interesting.
15:00 i mean Dawn is more like Buffy's daughter than Joyce's(biolagically). Because she is created from Buffy's blood. Its like "virgin Mary" situation😅
Can't believe I didn't see this was posted until today.
Ah, Cody, you're a word nerd like me. 😄I love etymology and linguistics as a whole. Maybe I should have studied that at uni instead of what I went for. I love finding out the roots of words and how they've evolved through time and place to end up in different languages and also, if I'm learning a language, I love to see where and how they intersect. For me, the answer to that frequently asked question - "which superpower would you have?" - would be to not only speak and understand every language, but also understand how they all fit together.
5x09 Riley's first instinct isn't to work with the Scoobies, it is to gather together soldiers. Riley wants Buffy to do what she is doing in the kitchen on his shoulder, but that won't just happen only because they are dating. This is another issue Riley ignored when she was talking about slayer and soldier stuff not mixing as well as he assumed back in _Doomed._ She didn't cry in front of Angel so much as he was the reason for her crying. There is a difference between the two and he's thinking one when she did the other. She didn't cry to her friends when Angel became Angelus, either.
I love the idea of Dawn calling for Buffy while Buffy is crying before Buffy hears her the second time. Tension without doing so in the traditional "cannot scream at all" way.
Giles saying, "killer snot monster from outer space" as well as Xander's car/planet joke just before are incredibly amusing.
5x10 Buffy didn't love Riley in the same way he claimed to love her. That doesn't give Riley the excuses he does. Buffy and Riley wanted different things out of the relationship. She states at the end of S4 Riley was supposed to be the boring, casual boyfriend. A rebound as it were. Riley unintentionally screwed her plan up by being a member of The Initiative, so she dumped him in _Doomed,_ and after he called her "stupid" for the decision he didn't fully understand (and Buffy was trying to come to terms with herself - witch is why she shouldn't have been dating), she gave him a chance.
Everything about their relationship was bad communication based. From not telling each other about the slayer and Initiative aspects, to _Hush,_ to Riley's heart problems, to jealousy issues, to him purposely getting bit by vampires, to this episode.
The issues Riley had with Buffy are things he could have talked to her about. By not doing so, and when losing his sense of self when The Initiative fell, his jealousy issues, which were already an issues starting in _The Yoko Facttor_ kicked into higher gear with _Buffy Versus Dracula._ Riley latched onto Buffy as a way to replace the hole The Initiative left, becoming as Graham said, "Mission's boyfriend."
Everything Riley says in this episode's argument between the two, is him justifying the actions of his drug and prostitute metaphor while trying to throw blame on Buffy for not loving him as if he'd talked to her about it before. He's thrown this blame before at the end of _The Yoko Factor_ when Buffy asked why he was "crazy" with the jealousy. His respnse was I love you so much I had to. That puts his issues on her shoulders in both situations. She loves him in a casual dating way and he's obsessive about her needing him, and is in denial about it. Where as Buffy has tried actively talking to him numerous times. It ended up resulting in getting no long-term progress towards either of their issues.
Riley wanted to comfort Buffy; to give his life that purpose of "Mission's boyfriend." Buffy's personality was already struggling with Riley wanting to do that as she is a strong, independent woman and The Slayer. Buffy opens up to people and allows them to take care of her the way Riley was asking when they don't push her into said action, and when she trusts the relationship enough. It took Giles until the end of _Helpless_ before Buffy opened up to him that way (22 months). Riley has known Buffy 14 months and they have only been dating 11 months. If he was patient and didn't push her into things she needed to get into naturally, like trying to lean her head on his shoulder when that wasn't her natural reaction (and leave his jealousy behind), eventually she would have allowed him to "take care of her."
Being "on top of everything" is in her job description. Riley's reaction to not getting those things from Buffy was negative in every way. A part of Buffy's issues are that she feels that she has to be as emotionally strong as she is physically. Riley never figured that out because he is the one that was dependent on her.
How Riley handles the fallout of this episode is a natural progression of their relationship, but could have been avoided if the two comminicated.
Xander in the alley brought up some good points concerning Buffy and Riley's relationship, but the fact that he waited two months and nine days (seven episodes) after learning from Riley Buffy doesn't love him shows it was more about saying 'I told you so' (as he stated he loves to do in the _Enemies_ episode) rather than helping the relationship. A mention people claim he makes is that it wasn't good enough if it wasn't direct. But things were ony getting worse in Buffy and Riley's relationship and no in-universe character noticed what Xander was trying to say. This episode's alley scene is too little too late.
Xander identifies with Riley when Riley tells Xander Buffy doesn't love Riley. Xander is remembering Buffy turning him down in _Prophecy Girl_ (and blocking out his own toxic reaction). Therefore when Buffy and Riley's relationship implodes, Xander guilts Buffy into chasing the helicopter ("He's never held back with you," "think about what you're about to lose.") Xander shows he isn't acknowledging what Riley has done and just continues to blame Buffy.
Riley's ultimatum would have lead to just as many problems in the Buffy/Riley relationship as they already have if Buffy had caught up to the helicopter. None of these things seem to phase Xander. He is just identifying with Riley and therefore sees Riley as in the right even after Buffy tells him all he's done. Buffy and Riley's problems are a reason to let Riley go and not chase after him.
Buffy turning the exact same issues on Xander by calling him out on, and saying it about him and Anya, shows he has his own issues to deal wth. Buffy wanted casual with Riley and was unconciously always keeping it that way. Xander and Anya are serious and its still acknowledged as a problem Xander hasn't dealt with until Buffy calls him on it. Xander didn't, and wouldn't, have saved the Riley/Buffy relationship. He waited too long and preferred to say, 'I told you so.' Buffy said something soon enough for Xander to help his issue with Anya (which is rare for him as he doesn't like dealing with his issues and that is why he's always up in other character's issues).
Xander states in other episodes indirectly that being the only guy his age in a mostly group of females is hard. He didn't want to be the only other male figure his age in the group. That combined with identifying with Riley made what he said to Buffy wrong, despite the fact that Buffy not loving Riley is not as truthful as Riley wants to believe. He just wanted her to like him more than casually, but became obsessive about his own issues.
Spot Fcking On! It's a shame he can be so shytty so often cuz he can be fun when he's not.
@@liabowden8526 Riley or Xander!?I took out a section saying how similar the two are in that regard. That combined with you not saying which one your talking about has me wondering which one your referencing.
I don't think this is a spoiler - I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be implied by this point - summoning the Queller to "clean up after" Glory is because the large influx of mentally ill people in Sunnydale at the moment is because of Glory feeding on them. They've mentioned a couple times how there are more and more people in the psych ward of the hospital, etc... and the Queller targets specifically those people. That's how Ben is cleaning up after Glory. :(
That scene with Joyce and Buffy talking about Dawn in the hospital gets me every time. And when she says, "my sweet, brave Buffy" to Buffy, it gets me choked up, makes me think of my own Mom, just... too many feels.
Hated Xander's little sermon, which was more about his own relationship, hated that Buffy fell for it, but loved that Riley had no peripheral vision. I remember being incredibly happy when he left. 😈
As someone who has watched a loved one die of a brain tumor - yes, people will absolutely scream, shout, and say terrible things and have no idea that they're doing it. It is normal and terrifying and devastating.
The anticipation is killing me!
If you know , you know
This whole season is a kick in the balls from start to finish!!
Boink came into wide use after Bruce Willis used the term on the show Moonlighting.
The overlapping dialogue scenes between Angel and Buffy in season 2 always had a Moonlighting feel about them to me.
Secret unprotected sex with random strangers as retaliation in a relationship is a garbage bag move. I didn't dislike Riley until the very end, and then I couldn't wait for that helicopter to go the F away.
16:06 right. Everybody knows we don't have to wait for a full anymore. We did what the Werewolves couldn't and now we get to go out regardless of the full moon...gods this sounded funnier in my head. (For i have ADHD/Autism, so technically i qualify as crazy.) 😂😂😂
Also that scene with Joyce and Buffy talking about Dawn, makes me sob every single time. It's so beautifully done.
Edit: the problem with Riley is he never communicated these issues with Buffy. And he made what she was going through with her mother about himself. They frame the whole thing as if Buffy was deliberately being cold, but she wasn't. She legit did not know there was even a problem until this episode.
Like this whole arc frustrates me, especially when you look at it from Buffy's perspective, because it feels like there's an entire Seasonal arc missing. I know the writers wanted Riley gone so they could focus on Dawn but to be honest they should have just had him leave with Graham when he had the surgery. Maybe he had to go to a special military hospital that was set up to help the soldiers that were effected by Maggie Walsh's experiments. That would have felt more organic than this because there just isn't enough here to justify why Riley feels this way. After she (eventually) told Riley about her entire history with Angel she has always been upfront with him. She has always been honest emotionally so Riley feeling emotionally neglected just doesn't make sense to me. Hell it would have been better executed had they just made it about him not being a Super-Soldier anymore rather than dressing up a one-sided emotional neglect issue as being a two people problem. If you're in a relationship and one person doesn't know there's a problem then you need to communicate that problem so they can fix it. But Riley didn't do this, he just let his own insecurity fester and cause a mountain when there wasn't even a molehill, and he's doing it at a time when Buffy is likely emotionally and mentally all over the place.
I love Season 5. As a whole it's brilliantly done, but how they handled Riley's exit was pretty weak and it's framed as if it's Buffy's fault, when it actually isn't, cause she wasn't even aware there was a problem because she was focussing on her mum being poorly. Hell, Giles, Willow, and Xander had even taken over patrolling duties to make it more manageable for her, all Riley did was mope about her being emotionally unavailable at a time where she was terrified and had to be strong emotionally. Not just for herself, but for Dawn and Joyce too.
I think Riley was an 'unlucky' character in the show, in that many fans couldn't stand him, somewhat unfairly really, but he was never gonna replace Angel or even Spike as far as fans were concerned in relation to Buffy. Some very interesting dialogue in this episode where everyone is speaking truth and it isn't what they want to hear. Buffy is of course feeling betrayed that Riley is getting satisfaction away from her, it suits Spike to tell her this as he is now infatuated with her. I think we can see Xander's character having grown so much where he has gone from sex mad teenager to philosophical adult, giving great advice all round, proving how the he has matured over the Seasons.
'Listening To Fear' I think is the scariest Buffy ep after Hush.
This is it!!! ❤❤❤
Oh guys, you are not prepared emotionally for what's coming... This season is amazing. It's the best for me, beginning to end. A lot will happen. Sarah Michelle Gellar show one of her best performance this season. Enjoy your ride in the Buffyverse guys !
Not to get too trauma dumpee so I’ll stick to quite detached? language. I haven’t seen these episodes since my grandfather was diagnosed (and passed) from a brain tumour. Used to rewatch Buffy every year and this is the first time in four that I’ve gone through it so thank you(!) for making this so enjoyable and fun.
As to whether or not these are actual symptoms of having a brain tumour, I’m obviously not an expert but it’s similar to our experience. His personality and behaviour changed a lot and randomly. My granddad was always very kooky and weird (think Anthony Hopkins in both behaviour AND looks, which has a few funny horror related stories attached to it) but he became distant or had random moments of judgement that was not him. I prefer to remember him as he was though, because he was like my version of Joyce. He made sure everyone knew they were loved and welcome.
Riley gets too much hate. He was the perfect rebound, college relationship for Buffy. He gave up going away with Graham in the first place to join the army group, and ppl just gloss over that. Buffy kept him out of her professional life, and Riley wanted in. He made a big mistake with getting his blood drawn so to speak, that was to show how frustrated he was and trying to be part of the Supernatural world however he could. Still, they both matured and needed things the other couldn’t give, it’s the way of the world..I also don’t blame Buffy for running to talk to Riley before he took off..she realized she reacted to what Riley said defensively with no time to think, she just wanted to objectively try to work it out..she wasn’t running to tell him “everything is great it was all my fault let’s be lovers again” she just needed to talk to him when she wasn’t simply reacting in pain. Yes, it was wrong of him to only give her a couple hours ultimatum, but that’s how it worked out.
I have mixed feelings about the Xander speech. From his pov, I see where he’s coming from, but Riley needed to be let go. Their relationship styles/needs aren’t compatible…
Xander is just pointing out to Buffy that Riley is her rebound guy-snd That he doesn’t deserve this. Riley is so in love with Buffy, but she just got out of an epic love story with Angel/ first love. The feelings aren’t equal in this relationship. Xander doesn’t tell her that she should choose Riley absolutely: he’s just saying « if you aren’t able to give him all of you, and all your love maybe you should let him go instead of stringing him along. But if you decide that this relationship is worth saving and that you can treat him better, than go after him , and tell him how you feel. »
Wait.
So you guys think that there's a connection between Ben and Glory? 🤔
I will never agree with Xander, though...Riley could have communicated better, he could have dealt with his insecurity and jealousy better. He could have asked for help...but addiction tells us we can't do that. It tells us that IT is the only way to feel better. And it breaks my heart. But none of that is Buffy's fault. She has walls, yes, but no one is responsible for anyone else's actions. Riley is responsible for not communicating enough, not leaving when he should have, for lying and hiding things. His leaving was his choice entirely. Xander/the writers should not have blamed her for Riley's choices. Xander's speech was trash and I'll never forgive him for it. (5.10)
(And, just to be clear, I've always liked Riley and still do. I think his fall into the addiction was telegraphed for a good while, so it didn't strike me as sudden. And their downfall was also built up to, even though it probably felt sudden for Buffy. But I've always been fond of him, his earlier wholesomeness...he's like cornbread in the shape of a man. But he simply wasn't what Buffy really needed/wanted. He was meant to be an Angel rebound and, unfortunately, would never have gone much beyond that.)
Yeah, that kid needed therapy and time, he was so immature and pretty emotionally stilted after his whiole identity was blown up along with his reanimated mother figure. I sympathise but hate that the writers chose to make it a Buffy problem, not a Riley problem.
I feel like Riley did that with the vampire to maybe try and understand why Buffy had such an attraction to them even though she was the slayer 🤷♀️🤔
Have you guys considered watching The Magicians? If youre not familiar, think if Harry Potter was in grad school when he learned about magic, but also there’s Narnia and intense horror and hilarious comedy? (The mention of “lunatics” made me think of it). ❤
S5 was so hard hitting, another brilliant episode showing the real anguish and anxiety when a parent becomes ill, and the trauma of having to deal with it for the children. Even though we know Buffy is strong she breaks down doing the washing up, and cries her eyes out, great acting. Again we see Dawn being the focus of strange reactions to her which is really worrying her now, and also we see Spike's obsession with Buffy becoming stronger, and Ben of course isn't what he seems. The Queller demon was one of the worst in the series . Another really good episode from S5. This strangely scores a low IMDB score of only 7.0, it's much better than that.
the nipple comment took me out!!! 😆
Green jello is lime!
The Summers women!! ❤❤❤
~~There is no spoon~~
Since Christmas is coming soon, i'm hoping you guys react to Better Watch Out (2017). Pugapillar reacted to it a couple years ago and he would be the first to tell you to go into it knowing absolutely nothing other than that there's a mid credit scene
That movie is great
I feel kind of sorry for Sandy. She's at The Bronze, and Vampire Willow turns her. She's trying to exist without killing people, so she getting money for biting people but not draining them. She has a moment of hope, and then Buffy kills her. 🤷♂️
Riley did try to get Buffy to open up to him, but she kept putting him off. She was distracted, and everything finally came to a head.
That wasn't Sandy. Riley killed Sandy right after he let her bite him in 5x8
@quiqonky ah...good point. Oops! But whoever it was, she seemed like she was trying to avoid killing people...
I think they were a good couple that just failed because of poor communication in the end. If they had more time they could’ve worked it out. Riley needed to find a purpose and Buffy needed to let him in more. Like when Joyce got sick, all she had to do was let him know about it.
Ding Dong Riley's Gone.
What I can't wrap my head around from this episode is the fake stake. It's dismissed in the episode as just some vampire hunting gear that Riley has, but WHY would he have it? Making a fake wooden stake from plastic is (a) far more expensive than whittling down a real stake, (b) probably had to be custom made - and remember, this is an era before internet shopping really took off - and (c) absolutely useless. Vampires don't need to be intimidated - and again, if you were planning to intimidate a vamp but not kill them, a real (much cheaper) stake will do the trick just fine. Literally the only use I can think of is if a vamp has a weird being-staked kink (which, to be fair, Spike definitely has, but why does RILEY have one of these).
I like Riley. I definitely prefer him to Angel. I think he was the greatest romantic interest Buffy ever had.
So Joyce was in a super natural state and normal causes? I always confuse the two and or still don’t know. Cause if it’s normal how did she still se Dawn as the key and in super natural state?
Loved the hospital bonding scene. Yay Willow dusting 2 vamps! She’s come a long way 🙌🏼 Riley you need therapy sir 🤦🏽♀️ Willow’s care package 💚 Nurse Ben I need to know what your deal is. He’s definitely sus! Tara/Willow stargazing was adorable 🖤 Ooo…falling creature from space? These poor patients & nobody listening to them 😢 Ugh Joyce is breaking my heart 💔 Poor Dawn 😭 Giles stays reading Xander 😂 Buffy crying always makes me cry. Yes Dawn taking it to the monster! 🙌🏼 Spike randomly popping into Buffy’s house to steal pics of her tho 😂 Nurse Ben is connected to Glory?! 🤯 Buffy telling Joyce the truth about Dawn! All the feels 😭 Such an interesting concept for a monster. I hope Joyce makes it through! I’m liking Cody’s theory on the Ben/Glory connection & the parallels 🤔
Love everyone being there during her surgery. The intro cutaway before finding out the results was so uncalled for! So relieved the surgery was a success 💚 Anya’s dry sense of humor always SENDS me 💀 Spike turning into a lowkey stalker tho. Initiative trying to get Riley back. Spike getting Buffy to show her what Riley’s been up too. That bedroom scene tho 😂 CAUGHT in the act. Not Spike pretending he cares about Riley. Buffy seriously can’t catch a break like ever 🤦🏽♀️ Not Anya & Willow beefing 😳 Buffy going after the vamp nest. Buffy committing arson! Riley coming for Spike! Staking him with a plastic stake threw me for a loop. Spike admitting his infatuation with Buffy to Riley! 🤯 “Getting suck jobs from two-bit vampire trulls” was WILD 😂 Oof that Spike/Riley cemetery scene tho. That Riley/Buffy confrontation 😳 It did sound like an emotional manipulation ultimatum honestly. The vamps surrounding Buffy & her taking them all out 🔥 The shock of her sparing her then launching that stake tho 🤯 Xander following Buffy to have her vent & helping her figure things out. Of course she JUST missed him. Xander has had so much growth! Love him & Anya 💚 I was never fully in on the Buffy/Riley relationship but it’s still sad to see the relationship dissolve. I think he’s a good guy but they just didn’t fit together. She has a lot on her plate & they both weren’t able to give it their all & give the other what they truly needed. These episodes were another two that hit you right in the feels. Excited to see what happens next with Glory still out there! Absolutely killing these reactions y’all 🖤
No one will ever convince me Riley was right, Buffy was at fault, or Xander is a good friend.
Riley had a mission and purpose with the Initiative. When that was gone, so was his sense of self, so he projected it all on his relationship with Buffy, and it wasn't enough - for him. So what does he do? Does he talk to Buffy like a mature adult and phych major? Or does he whine to Xander and pout a lot and walk off like a hurt puppy whenever Buffy doesn't "need" him , and get his emotional "fix" from vampires feeding on him. And yes, that last bit is cheating. Then, when he Does open up about his feelings with Buffy, its only because he Got Caught cheating and to deliver a freakin' Ultimatum?!? No. Go run away and join the army or the circus or whatever, just go, and maybe grow up .
Buffy is the Slayer. The weight of the world on her shoulders, the leader in the fight against supernatural badness. Her mother is seriously ill. Her sister is a mystical "key" planted in her life to be protected from a mysterious and powerful being Buffy has yet to beat in a fight. Her friend group support system is there, but it's also proven in the past to be fickle with its support. Buffy has always internalized her anguish - after she died, after she killed Angel, after Angel came back. She's not a boohoo damsel in distress Riley needs her to be. Angel was never my ideal for Buffy, but she did have actual conversations with him, and in season 2 & 3, that wound up biting her in the a** (he turned evil and ultimately left her), so no wonder she's reserved about her feelings.
Xander is just a d!ck. His conversation with Riley a while back would have been a good time to talk to his friend and give her a heads up on her boyfriend's insecurity, but no. Instead he waits until she's at a low and comes after her. His lecture to her this episode was more his style. Funny, whenever he has to have a meaningful talk with Buffy it is just him being nasty and petty (Dead Man's Party, the Angel's Returned intervention, etc.) He knows Buffy, who she is and what she's going thru, probably more than Riley, and he dismissed Riley's actions as justified and Buffy's fault? People say he's still butt hurt over being friend-zoned by Buffy and he identifies with Riley, well yeah. I can see that. Both guys wanting more from Buffy than she is willing or able to give and getting all bent up about it. That's on them, not her.
I absolutely hate the episode with the queller demon. I put this off for a while, but I eventually watched it because I love you guys. I don't know that I can say I'll do that for all episodes going forward, but it was worth it for this set of episodes.
So you think that Ben and Glory have a connection.
Well, obviously. But of what kind?
I feel like Into the Woods was Joss Whedon justifying cheating on his wife. Think about it, he had the writers make Riley sympathetic. Riley. The cheater. Then he had the writers make his self insert character (Xander) force Buffy to listen to the justifications of Riley cheating.
I hate Into the Woods and I feel like I'm not alone in my distaste for it.
I call that a "radical interpretation of the text"! Lots of people cheat on the show, notably Willow and Xander.
Happy "Buffy, the Vampire Slayer" Friday evening with Cody & Sergio! 😊
Hope that you both had a great Thanksgiving.
Episode 5x09: Glory sends a creature from outer space to find the Key. And it targets Joyce. Love that opening scene with Buffy, Joyce, and Dawn. And while Buffy's at the hospital with her mom, the Scoobies take over her patrolling. And yay...Willow got two vamps. That creature that Glory sends used to freak me out. Still kinda does. LOL!
Episode 5x10: Buffy finds out where Riley goes to at night. Riley's friend Graham tries to get him back into the military. I wasn't a fan of the Riley/Buffy pairing, but was a little sad to see him go.
Already looking forward to next week's episode reactions. 😊
5-9: No, Glory didn't summon the Queller. Remember the minion demon asking Ben why HE summoned the Queller? Because he was cleaning up Glory's mess, like he always has. And it isn't there to find the Key, it is there to eliminate all the people made insane by Glory sucking their sanity out, but it just targets anyone showing the signs of that insanity, and Joyce's symptoms qualify. Interestingly, Ben is going against Glory's wishes in that regard. Check this reaction starting at about 13:57.
Xander theorized that Glory was the summoner, because "who else?" The Scoobies have no knowledge of the idea that there's some kind of connection between Ben and Glory, so Xander's theory is reasonable, albeit wrong.
When we first watched "into the woods", i was like "well obviously she's not actually running to Riley because of all the stuff that's just happened between them. This is a classic Joss Whedon misdirect, so she's running to somebody else. It can't be spike, but I can't imagine who else it would be". When it was revealed that she was actually running to catch Riley, my wife and I asked each other what the fuck was happening.
Exactly, Riley just cheated on her AGAIN (same vampire, but still) gives Buffy a fucking ultimatum, Xander basically tells her to suck it up and walk it off, and Whedon somehow doesn't see a fucking problem with the situation. In a strong feminist show, for fuck's sake. I never liked Riley, but this definitely made me hate him.
@@ShadowThundercat-u1eTo be fair, he tells her if she can't be what Riley needs, she should let him go; if she thinks she can, and wants to, be with Riley, then letting him go because she's annoyed with him is a mistake. He is not telling her to go after him period - he's saying make a choice.
Of course, being Xander, he waited way to long to tell her that her and Riley need to make some time to really talk. Both Buffy and Riley were remiss in not communicating; Riley needed to stop giving Buffy so much space thinking everything was fine between them, and much earlier.
Buffy: Xander... Xander: Run. 🤮🤮
Aren't you just charmed by how Riley cheating is all Buffy's fault for taking care of her very sick mother?
Wait, are you saying there is some kind of relation between Glory and Ben?
Well obviously. But of what kind?
I'm so glad you both understood that what Xander told Buffy was right and needed. He was being a great, true friend at that moment. She had shut herself off from Riley like she never did with anyone else, including Spike, oddly. Riley was wrong to handle his issues with illicit vampire suck jobs, but he was looking for a way to handle his issues without dumping on Buffy while she was dealing with Glory and Joyce's illness. He didn't force this moment on her now, Spike did. And he did it for selfish reasons.
And Xander had been calling Riley out on his behavior, without knowing the depth of what Riley was doing with vampires. He was being a great friend to Riley as well. Xander's a character who sees a lot, which is why he's the "heart" of the Scoobies. And his speech to Anya at the end was beautiful.
So sad to see Riley go, as he was a genuinely good guy. It's a shame Buffy realized what she had with him too late.
Ohh, I so hard disagree. Xander is projecting because he remembers his own unrequited crush on Buffy and Riley is basically his idol.
Riley wasn't making himself available in a useful way, and was reacting to her caring for her family as a personal slight. He thinks she's shutting him out when she's actually at breaking point and is largely shut down around everything except the immediate medical crisis in her family. I mean - He couldn't have been washing the dishes and been background guy for a few days? Then he throws an ultimatum at her after being angry at her for catching him cheating...
Buffy was right to let him go at that point because he was trying to force her to 'prove' she loves him under duress.
I do actually have sympathy for Riley - the military should have made damn sure he got some therapy after what happened, he lost his entire identity and Buffy was all he had to hold on to - Which isn't a healthy dynamic. Riley got toxic and Xander stirred the pot.
Way back when this originally aired, I was a lot kinder to Riley. He was at loose ends, had no meaning in his life (and was doing jack squat to find any), and now he's emotionally addicted to being vamp bait. But now, I'm like, byyyyye. You had eons of time to talk to Buffy about your issues but didn't, and now you're only willing to give her 5 seconds to process that you essentially cheated on her or you're out? Hit the road, Jack, and don't you come back no more no more.
Honestly, glad Rileys gone 😂
Good episodes even if i prefer the second half. Last scene between Buffy and Joyce is 😢
I never liked Riley so glad to see him go. He was just so whiny to be a soldier like man up already.
I actually never like riley, I think his purpose and path he was goin gon was completely destroyed and he lost his way. He relied heavily on his relationship with buffy and that isnt enough. he was missing soething and he was never truly honest with how he felt about everything thats been happening with her. Anyways not a fan of his. Sorry
"The killer snot-monster from outer space" is so gross! 🤢 Ben is certainly there a lot.
I'm glad that Joyce knows, accepts and wants to protect Dawn too. Joyce is an awesome mom. ❤
I started to think that Anya might be a bit autistic coded and it makes me love her more now that I know that I'm autistic (late diagnosed in my late 30s and still learning to love myself and being kind to myself and understanding why I never feel like I belong anywhere) so I relate to her since she's very blunt sometimes and doesn't know all the social cues, since she's a former demon. "She's newly human and strangely literal." - Anya describing me. 😅
I also like that Anya's knowledge about different demons comes in clutch a lot + she's hilarious and sarcastic. My kind of woman. 😍
Bye bye, Riley. I don't think that the writers knew what to do with him so it was best to let him leave. Marc Blucas is a wonderful and fun guy IRL tho so no hate. ❤
The rest of this season will blow your minds! 🤯 Can't wait to watch your reactions! I've come to adore you both so much. Your discussion after every episode is so genuine, thoughtful and great to hear. 💖 Happy Thanksgiving, have a nice day, don't get killed! 😁
Not a huge Riley fan to be honest
Is it bad I sort of wish you guys had the time to post 2 Buffy videos to TH-cam a week? It's bad...very bad yes... great reactions you guys!
Riley Buffy were never good for each other
Also - feck Riley. He is the most selfish, immature, fragile masculinity. gaslighting "my bad behavior is all your fault" pos.
Etymology is existentially interesting... *Dyēus Ph₂tḗr