How BTS Paved the Way
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 มี.ค. 2022
- elliot randomly rants about paved the way discourse
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#BTS #kpop #BTSpavedtheway
I forget where exactly, but at one point they were talking about how nervous they were before the first BBMAs, and Yoongi said something to the effect of, part of the reason they were so scared was because they had no one to ask for advice. No seniors in the industry who'd gone through the same thing, so they had to figure it out themselves. If that's not paving the way, what is?
THISSSSSS
such a good point!!!
You hit it right in the head!!!! BTS continues to pave the way - regardless of gender! They took all the risks in ALL markets and being NUMBER ONE IS their just rewards!
I'm late to the Party, but when That That came out, Psy said that he wanted to comfort Yoongi and BTS, but didn't feel like he could, because they were experiencing success at a rate and duration that he hadn't.
I'm quite surprised Kyla said that the phrase "BTS paved the way" disregards black artists. "BTS paved the way" has always been used exclusively to describe BTS' impact on the commerical success of K-pop, not to claim that BTS invented hip-hop, R&B, breakdancing, and other black-influenced aspects of K-pop. That was completely unrelated to what "paved the way" means. I'll go as far as to say that she was trying to paint armys out to look like the bad guys who refuse to acknowledge the influence of black people on K-pop (though this is true for some fans, it isn't a related point here)
It definitely wasn't related and to toss it in there is just another example of how little a lot of stans care and often outright ignore that influence unless it's to diminish - the whole "too westernized" slander. BTS, the artists I actually follow, have always declared their roots and inspiration with pride; so when others try to use it against them it's very telling. They just don't know what they're talking about.
@@monimuppet6132 fr. K-pop stans like to complain about BTS becoming "too westernised" but ignore how all the music they put out from 2013-2014 was inspired by hip-hop and had heavy rapping, aka inspired by black Americans. It's just a buzzword they like to throw around without knowing what it means, not to mention its microaggressive undertones
@Babybear Omg thank you for pointing out the fact that a lot of kpop stans always talk about a "concept" and an "aesthetic". BTS' music has always been truthful, and even though they tell their stories in an artistic way, they don't just make songs for an appealing aesthetic. When some people say "I want Suga to do the same concept as his first mixtape", I'm like "so you want him to go through depression again?". Why would he make that type of song now if he doesn't feel that way anymore ?
@Babybear The difference between real fans and mantis.
Mantis want the concept. They vibe with certain sounds. They care less for the lyrics and if they do they want their own mood reflected never noticing that it isn't a concept song but BTs own emotion/history/self. It seems like so an foreign concept for some people.
You ARE alowed not to like a song/album etc. But telling them who they are/supposed to be/what to do? Not okay.
BTS is BTS. They will archieve the "next level" and whatever way they want regardless of what mantis try to tell them.
I love them for that, too. 💜
7:35 it’s the idea of “oh anyone could’ve done that. I could’ve painted that” but you DIDN’T! That’s the difference! You don’t know it’s possible until someone does it first and THAT’S how you open doors that were previously thought to be closed
To quote Nelson Mandela, It's impossible until it is done. There's no way of knowing if it was impossible to do what BTS did, but they did it so it's possible by that virtue alone.
Of course, it's all about the words used: "Paved the way" does NOT mean "Was the FIRST to do it". It means to "make it easier for (something to happen or someone to do something)". Many older gen artists did certain things "first" (outside SK) and certainly influenced and inspired many artists on the home front (like all artists do in their own countries). But then it was over, a flash in the proverbial pan for those artists. Many many years passed after those initial KP forays into foreign markets. The difference is BTS made it EASIER for others, as well as doing *many* things first, and it's still going strong, 5+ years later.
Kpop brainless fans will never accept it or they are just stupid to understand it
This explanation is ON point!
I think I want to show your explanation to other kpop fans, because they always deny on this fact
Actually it is both because BTS has been the first artist not just korean to achieve a lot of records,BTS has had over 100 first for an Artist just take ur time to research but u do have a good opinion don't think am countering ur opinion am just giving mine.
Exactly
yes, the distribution of kpop albums is a huge point.
i just wanted to add that before bts, major late night talkshows (with good US viewership) seldom interviewed asian artists who didnt speak english. often times, if they did interview an asian artist, the artist would have to either speak english or bring a translator themself. but bc of BTS (&largely due to the changing talkshow formats during the pandemic), now asian artists are invited to these talkshows without a need for live translation, as they started utilizing translation subtitles (after doing so w bts). they eventually did that subtitling format with the squid game cast too. i didnt really see this effort put in for non english speaking asian artists/celebs before BTS. this allows for more western promo opportunities for asian artists.
bts even had their comeback performances (premiere performances) on non-korean shows, which was a rare occurrence (if at all) before bts. but now other kpop grps can opt to do so, with much more ease.
it also wasnt until after bts topped the billboard charts & got grammy noms, that other kpop artists began to speak proudly of their dreams to one day get a grammy or top billboard themselves. it means they realize there is now an avenue or path to that possibility now that bts have done it.
also “paving the way” signals that not only were they making unprecedented impact, they made a path for other similar artists to take in order to gain access to global media & global attention. other artists preceding bts did not leave a viable pathway for future artists to take in their footsteps (you can argue w me abt that if you got receipts)
i think a lot of issue & misunderstanding arise when everyone has a different interpretation of what “paving” entails & what “way” is being paved.
Ate, left no crumbs no nothing, not even the table cloth.
Great points, and has an ARMY, I don’t just see how BTS paved the way for Kpop artists- my hope is that their success and strides pave the way for artists from other non-English speaking countries to have an inroad to new audiences
Ever noticed the only people mad abt the “BTS PAVED THE WAY” saying that is western centric, are non koreans💀 The same way the ppl mad abt BTS singing in english were non koreans again, saying they lost their korean identity lol.
They have lost their korean identity everytime they released their japanese albums too, I guess, lol.
I KNOWW
yet they still sing in korean, use traditional korean beats, instruments, dress and dance. Heck Jimin was give a very special award for his Traditional Fan dance, by the Korean Association for the protect of Traditional Korean Fan Dance. He was given it as a man he is when it's a dance Women only do. They'll never lose their Korean Identity, they are proud South Koreans and have been awarded the Cultural Merit Award by their own President. These people get their knickers in a twist because their group(s) are not able to reach the level of achievement that BTS hold. It's pure spite and jealousy, the actions of immature brains who are convinced by media play.
Oh the woman doesn't even know that BTS do give credit to those Black artists unlike the those other kpop groups.
@@eileencritchley4630Yes, yes and Bts has always paid for the rights to music. Also, I agree with you for they have always credited the black artist who influenced them! Unlike, as you stated others. You have a Lovely Day...✌💜
No cuz people don’t realize Asia is more than EA and SEA countries 😭 sure kpop was huge there but in SA and WA countries exist as well and BTS MADE A HUGE HUGE IMPACT and paved the way in other Asian countries as well
Bunny aliens who are from the planet bini who are against the planet bygo paved the way for entertainment.
The Magical Intelligent Sea and its agents paved the way.
The Magical Intelligent Sea and its agents paved the way.
One thing I find frustrating is how people expect both bts and army to “prove themselves”, that all 7 bts members are talented/profound/humble/genuine enough to “deserve” their position and that army is educated/eloquent/knowledgeable of kpop history/mature enough to “deserve” to talk about their love and excitement.
I don’t see any other musical artist or fandom being held to this standard? It’s a very confusing thing but I’ve seen it so many times in different social media platforms.
Thank you for this video!
Another thing with the talk shows, in 2012 after SNSD, there was no surge of kpop artists on them either. It was like a one and done kind of deal. And nobody was paying attention to kpop until BTS ARMY was hyping them up SOOO much and asking them to be on Ellen that Ellen finally was like okay lets see whats up. BTS ARMY showed up in such a HUUUUUGE way for them that it really shocked many industry folks here. The numbers were there and then everyone wanted them, AMAs, BBMAs followed suit as well and saw and heard fans in person. You can't deny that impact. Same with GMA. GMA was NOT ready for BTS, fans overran Times Square just to see them on the monitor! And after BTS when Blackpink went on the show, they stepped up their welcoming party and had like a little entrance, played games with fans, had balloons, etc. They even put out barricades because they expected the same wave from a kpop act. With the one of 2nd gen artists who made appearances over here, it didn't lead to anything. Now every big group debuts or premieres on all the talk shows and makes the normal promotional rounds over here (Buzzfeed, Seventeen, Wired, Vanity Fair, etc.) and they are given those opportunities because BTS was there first. It's so obvious I will never understand folks who deny it. The same people who dont want new fans to discredit older artists, they never attribute the same credit to BTS. Such a double standard.
Also saying someone paved the way or whatever shouldnt equal discrediting everyone else when its just true. When people call Michael Jackson king of pop, they arent trying to shit on everyone making music around the same time. It's just a fact, no need to be offended. Musical influence has nothing to do with impact. An artist inspiring you doesn't take away from your achievements because thats just how art works?? Cultural impact is felt and seen. BTS wasn't handed any opportunity for more visibility or fame thanks to the artists that came before them. But many artists were given the same opportunities for promotion because of BTS. It's that simple!
Exactly, I never heard of Girls Generation before I got into BTS.Elliot made such a good point that even if you’re an indie artist that is signed to a label you can get on one of these shows. They didn’t get these because of the demand but because their label went through the channels to make it happen,which is still cool that it happened. But it didn’t take until BTS in 2017 for other groups to be on these shows. They all say senior artists should be respected, well.. BTS are turning 9 this year, they are seniors, so where is their respect?
Any true 2nd gen stan *(that lived through the times that those groups were active and in full hype) would know that K-pop was a niche thing and that the achievements that these groups did were significant but not nearly enough to payed the way for BTS to go mainstream. K-pop at that time did not grew exponentially but slowly. It was hard to be a stan, the only thing you could do is find forums that you could download mv and music. Buying an album was a expensive and daunting task, almost impossible to get. Nobody in Costa Rica knew about K-pop and the usual pipeline to get into K-pop for many people back then was this: Anime>Anime music>Jpop/Jrock mostly johnnies>K-pop groups singing in Japanese>K-pop. K-pop had limited content in English much less in Spanish, So for a latina to know about kpop you had to first know English and to like Asian something either kdramas or animes, to be a master of the internet because you had to find forums, etc. At the PTD live viewing in CR, there many armys with their families seeing the concert. Parents with their kids and group of friends and the like. Young girls, and women of all ages with their boyfriends and male army as well. That is all in BTS and armys that have made them mainstream. BTS did paved the way. This is coming from a 2nd gen stan in her 40s
Yep yep! One and done deal for the previous gens.
The simple fact that a huge part (if not the majority) of young kpop fans today, even the ones discrediting BTS now, got into kpop through BTS speaks for itself. That's a concrete example of paving the way, being the gateway to the industry.
I find it hilarious how it’s always the non-Koreans arguing against the “BTS paved the way” statement while literally the entirety of the Korean nation including the president himself are like “yeah BTS paved the way” like???
the "well if X was at the right moment at the right time they would be where BTS are now" also kinda ties into how a lot of kpop fans treat groups as basically interchangeable - aka the "next BTS" thing that not only exists in idol companies trying to capture what BTS did, but in many kpop fans (some of whom I knew) who clamored that X or Y group would be "next" to become mainstream in the US, and/or talked about wanting new faces, asking armys to let other groups shine, etc.
Something many 2nd gen kpop fans don't understand or refuse to engage with is that the reasons armys love and resonate with BTS are not the same as the reasons fans of other groups love those groups or the reasons kpop fans love kpop in general (even if there's some overlap), precisely because every group and every fandom is different. The BTS phenomenon is unique in ways that too many people try to downplay with "oh, but BAP..." arguments - even if another group HAD managed to become a hit in the US, it simply would have not been the same.
Invalidating anything BTS has done and is doing has been a trend ever since their debut for some reason.
Some people will keep invalidating them way into their retirement and beyond.
another point that i’d say proves that BTS paved the way is that if you ask non kpop fans anything about kpop they’re going to assume it’s BTS bc in their eyes BTS and KPop in general are synonymous, they are often times the only group whos name people actually remember or have heard of at all. Which kind of stands to show that no other group had as big of an impact on the mainstream culture as BTS.
anyways apart from the fact that BTS *did* pave the way, i sometimes like to add that other groups before them had maybe cleared the path but that bts really did *pave* it and made a road where there previously wasn’t
THISSS, even my dad knew about BTS before I ever talk about them, like he was like oh yeah I saw it on the news, and we are from Colombia, the fact that acts like them are getting covered by the media in a lot of places says something, at least for me
I also want to acknowledge that BTS's main promotional force was and still is ARMY. So they aren't really dependent on any media coverage. ARMY's made it possible for the albums to be available in the US market, also constantly asking for playing BTS music on the radio. The fandom brought BTS to Billboard and surprised them with the loudest cheers among all artists and locals were shocked by it. (Definitely looked them up afterward). So their way of marketing is completely different than any other group out there which basically paints the perfect story of a group from a small company that was undermined by media both in Korea and abroad that became the most influential group in the world.
We have huge fandom so the fanbase is just as diverse as anyone could imagine and we will have more toxic people just because of the large number (just as the author of this video said). But I do believe that percentage of toxic people is low. And most of the time those 'toxic' people are not that toxic if you watch the whole thread and understand that ARMY's rarely attack others but they do protect BTS. It could go out of hand though. However, it's very sad that people don't see that ARMY's have also done a lot of good with their charity projects. Or that we have special twitter groups for any student (law, medicine, and so on) where ARMY's are helping ARMY's for free, which makes us probably the most united fandom in the world. People tend to not acknowledge the special relationship between ARMY and BTS that they even write songs for each other (I mean there are ARMY songs dedicated for BTS and BTS songs dedicated for ARMY).
Right indeed, BTS and ARMY are very supportive with each other.
Love that begets Love ❤️💜❤️
Indeed! 50% success is also coz Army paved the way….now other fandoms are copying Army…🤭🥰💜
BTS. PAVED. THE. WAY.
period.
a lot of second gen stans get super irritated by the suggestion that bts paved the way because “well (insert group) got big in 1846 are we gonna ignore THEIR impact?” when it wasn’t a popularity contest to begin with - what people don’t understand is that “paving the way” isn’t a matter of getting on talk shows, having a one-and-done smash hit, or even influencing the style of groups that come after them, it’s more of a long-lasting impact that allows people to cross over oceans they previously couldn’t. that’s what bts did, imo. sure, i’ll give credit where credit is due, maybe first and second gen mixed the concrete, and maybe they put some nice paths down in their neighborhood. bts, on the other hand, built a bridge across the water and paved a path able to support much larger amounts of success for future generations. they kicked down a gate that opened up a whole new mess of opportunities, and there is nothing wrong with acknowledging that.
amazing video! the editing is on point as per usual, and the writing is just chefs kiss (as per usual)
What gets me is that Wonder Girls and Psy and other gens have said that It's BTS that have paved the way. Yet they seem to pretend that never happened.
thank you!! people who say "it just ignores other kpop artists before" really don't.. listen to what koreans in the industry who have felt the tangible impact of bts say? always found the BTS Wasn't The First comments to be really misguided and disingenuous
yeah, they say armys ignore other kpop artists when they are the ones ignoring them lol.
I'm middle eastern/northeastern african (egyptian) and had no idea kpop even existed, until I came across bts' blood, sweat, and tears in 2018 & I FELL IN LOVE not just with bts but with the korean culture and language (which I'm learning, albeit slowly) my point is, hadn't it been for bts, I wouldn't have even known of korean pop, culture, language, or even foods...so yes, k-artists before bts existed and had huge influence (in asia) but bts basically helped distribute and spread the knowledge that South Korea & its entertainment is so good and so much better than western entertainment...they also helped international NON westerners know the existence of korean culture...
Many may disagree with this but I don't think it's wrong either to say BTS paved the way for the same seniors that influenced them.
How many people discovered other Korean artists due to their exposure to BTS and their popularity?
(Obviously, some people might not share a similar experience but there's an argument there that many people discovered kpop and in turn BTS's seniors through their exposure to them).
11:20. Starting your point with “can’t believe I’m so brave for speaking against these vile evil THINGS” is so demeaning. It also shields them from criticism because they can hide behind “see! I told you they’re aggressive!” When people get rightfully offended for being dismissed and, as Elliot said, othered.
You don’t win an argument by tearing down your opponent. You don’t even have a valid discussion because the focus is not on the topic but on YOU
But that’s just my take. Feel free to disagree :)) /gen
Agreed and there's a term for it, ad hominem. As soon as you bring up personal attributes of your opponent you have lost the argument. It means that you have no other point and your only way to win is to insult and tear down the opposing side.
I watched the whole video, the way you talk is very engaging. You had very cool arguments, including some information I wasn't aware of, but I already knew most of the things you have mentioned here so it was nice to hear you summarise them and give your opinion on this topic. Topic that triggers so many people for some reason.
Honestly, I have never cared about who paved what way, because I don't listen to someone's music BECAUSE of their popularity or BECAUSE of their impact on something, I just listen to music I enjoy and that I resonate with.
BUT, lately, some people's discourses about BTS have been very upsetting. Especially by those who are SO angry about BTS' popularity that they just want to attribute that whole success to other artists, in order to diminish BTS' achievements.
Great vid!
It's in general a pet peeve of mine when someone starts a "controversial" statement overly defensive and hostile. When it comes to how people talk to armys I'm sick of how people will start discourse with how they'll probably be attacked by army (or kpop stans if it's a local) cause when they do that they are no longer trying to have a discussion, they are talking down to us and we can't respond back without adding a preamble about how we're not here to attack anyone and we apologize on behalf of any army who did leave malicious messages.
Reminds me of D'angelo
@@andsprite7071 oof his video on ptd gives me bad memories…
Late response, but thank you. I hate when people do this. The minute someone starts off a discussion like that, I just immediately click out of the video because I know they're not really here for a discussion. Plus it makes it hard for people of that Fandom to disagree without being called pressed or something.
exactly!! I’m from india and no one knew about kpop in india before BTS. Even now, if you ask any random person in india about kpop they would automatically think you’re talking about bts
Yes i from India too
In india even bp has a lot of fans ngl
@@edwinebijohn6291 BP is now huge but people found out about them only after BTS
What are you talking about? EXO was also popular in India. don't overestimate
Exactly...
Like if u ask do u know kpop? Here they will be like what but when u ask do u know BTS?? They will answer yeah who doesnt know even though they are not fan of BTS still they know
it’s simple. BTS put out what they had to offer just like other kpop idols before them but the difference is that they managed to make people think “oh we need to check their music out”. It has always been about the fucking music (as it should) idk what is so hard to understand here.
True. This phrase isn't an erasure of other kpop artists' influence or their achievements, but there's no comparison of the global impact. Saying "BTS paved the way" vs "xxx paved the way" is like comparing a highway to a sign post.
How is this even an argument, like BTS is the face of Kpop, and if someone is like “oh yeah I know Kpop” they most likely literally know BTS.
It’s so weird that the OP would bring up Black music, which k-pop from the origins is heavily derived, to make their point. To me, it sounds as like “if BTS didn’t pave the way using Black music in k-pop then no one paved the way using Black music in k-pop (but please acknowledge second gen, they get a pass)”. Please stop trying to slick invalidate what BTS and ARMYs have done for the k-pop industry by using Black music in your poorly constructed arguments. Leave us alone lol
I love how this argument stems from "western centric" but completely ignoring what BTS is doing in Asia as well, literally just became the first artist to win 10 awards at the Japan Gold Disc Awards but sure, tell me again how we are making this about America only. This is the same energy as "BTS have released too many English songs" ignoring their full Japanese albums. We're not the problem here but if I speak..
Cannot wait. If PTD Seoul this weekend reminded me of anything, its that the power of BTS is unequaled in the music industry. I'm sure you will be as eloquent as always, Elliot. 화이팅! 💜
10:21 - 10:34 hits SO hard like. genuinely! this idea that many non-fans have that a fan must be a music historian, or archivist, or activist, always crops up when it’s like. I don’t know how to put this. when the music itself or the artists themselves are othered. and I don’t mean othered as in an artist being outside the mainstream cause bts are definitely The Stream now in so many ways (and it’s not even just them facing this issue). it’s not about being inside/outside a mainstream binary. it’s ..! its like “this is not the western canon and therefore it is Niche Interest before it is art, so it doesn’t deserve to be admired and considered as art on its own grounds; true consumers of good (non-othered) art can only deign to consider is art exclusively within some Niche Interest framework of cataloguing and documenting the Other” and sort of saying @ the fans you guys don’t appreciate this artist because you aren’t pedastalizing them as a representative for their entire culture and/or artistic tradition. And this argument is so inverted, because that idea itself is what undermines these artists: the reality is they are *not* the only representative of their culture; their art, their bodies, their existence, are *not* automatically political just because they don’t look like yours. In deciding to other someone - which includes “toxic positivity” othering and upholding someone as a sole cultural representative - *you* are politicizing that person’s existence. Not them. And the most fcked part is that, once you politicize someone’s existence, they don’t get to opt out of that.
By trying to enforce any “one true practice” on the fan experience, people who aren’t even in the fandom are tokenizing and undervaluing the artist they claim fans don’t appreciate because they, idk, don’t know the history of country the artist is from. does context help ?? like yah! and anyone who wants to deepen their understanding + appreciation can and will seek that out! but there isn’t an inherent moral superiority in doing so!
and just to saaaay it idk~~ I don’t see ppl getting all disrespectful up in the faces of fans of like say ~english artists~ and being all “ok but if you were a tru fan you would have a complete and perfect understanding of how the british parliamentary system works and why that gave rise to punk and how that made shoegaze and how that made blah blah blah blah that made your artist cos your artist didn’t pave a dam 😤”
like, let people be a fan of music the way you let yourself be a fan of music.
I am from Pakistan. Before BTS' popularity skyrocketed, I had like about 3-4 people in my entire school who were into "kpop" or casual listeners of "kpop". It was RARE, almost like a little secret VERY few people were part of. Getting into korean culture in general here was rare. This is 2015 I am talking about. Since BTS' grew internationally (2017 - 2018), now almost every third person you meet is either 1. a fan of "kpop" or BTS, 2. a casual listener of "kpop" or BTS. The others probably don't listen as much but have at least tried listening to one song by BTS or know what "kpop" is. There is a very clear difference between both time periods. And Pakistan is in South Asia - neighbours with India.
I will say though, this phrase is getting really tiring because it's too often used to either blindly counter it or to fuel some cringy supremacy complex.
I'm also from Pakistan and this is so true, i didn't know what kpop was until i watched BTS blood sweat and tears mv on Pakistani music channel on TV in like end of 2016, there were no kpop fans in my school at that time but slowly slowly BTS got insanely popular in Pakistan and now almost everybody knows about BTS in my school, alot of my friends and cousins are BTS army, even many big Pakistani youtubers, tiktokers and actresses know and talk about them, I don't know about other countries but BTS definitely paved the way for kpop in Pakistan.
BTS even paved the way for J Balvin. He had the exact “copy paste but add different decals” for his light stick 🤣🤣. Fortunately, it was taken off his merch site after ARMYs found out.
honestly i got into kpop because of bts and i don't ult them anymore but it just really gets me when people try to argue that they didn't? bts reached levels of popularity worldwide that really no kpop artist before them had done. to your point about india - i'm indian and really the only kpop songs that got popular in india before bts got super popular were like... nobody and gangnam style. and maybe sorry sorry as well. if you asked a random person off the street in delhi what kpop is they would've given you a blank stare. also bts being incredibly popular is a good thing for pretty much any kpop group because it means that more people will get into OTHER kpop groups too once they start looking up more stuff about the industry.
Solid counter-arguments imo. One thing; I don't know anything about the video you responded to. Someone let me know if that person has any previous work mentioning the American hiphop influences in kpop. Because if they don't and they just used my childhood music as a token for their argument... 😑
This is definitely gonna be my go to video for those "what about 2nd gen artists" people
They already said that BTS paved the way not themselves more than once.
@@eileencritchley4630 the "people" i was talking about are 2nd gen stans nor 2nd gen idols
this video is so well made! everything is explained so nicely to the point where i have nothing to add lol. the problem is that a lot of people will immediately dismiss someone’s opinion simply bc they’re army and it’s so annoying. they let their bitterness towards bts affect anything related to them. if they took the time to listen and really reflect, they’d realize that most of us don’t say “bts paved the way” in a dismissing way. plus, even their favs acknowledge so at this point they should just accept the reality 😭
I saw something in the live chat about people seemingly obsessed with finding the "next BTS" and it throws me off, I believe it's going to take a good while before we see such happen.
funny thing is, there have been reports of idol companies trying to find the "next BTS" since early 2018 lol
@@Danae_O Going as far as to establish "task forces". Even recently there was an article which detailed out the business strategy of a company which was primarily centered around marketing their group as the next BTS and hoping that they will grow on the same pace.
These companies' obsession with finding the "next bts" is precisely why they'll never recreate bts' success. bts became so successful because they channel their unique experiences and worldviews into their music and image. If companies try to make their groups carbon copies of bts, they'll never succeed creatively or commercially
Oooh you spilled! This was so good! Thank you. Gonna link this everytime a kpop stan tries to argue with me instead of wasting my time trying to explain myself lol
Idol's of 1st Gen and 2nd Gen have said BTS Paved the Way for Kpop, the fandom's need a wake up call
Oof, this is gonna trigger some people lol.
Remember when BTS were the face of Vlive app launch?
Yes ! A lot of new kpop fans aren't aware of that. Vapp literally made adds on youtube videos. My cousin was introduced to BTS like that lol
The Magical Intelligent Sea and its agents paved the way.
Ate. Devoured. Served.
My first reaction to Kayla's video is to think 'wow this person has clearly never seen some of our in depth discussions on twitter.'
You know what's funny? Is that kpop stans only disagree with that becuz they just don't like bts 🤷♀️
When u ask for arguments they say older grps came before, and I'm like what does that have to do with anything? Paving the way doesn't mean Being first,
And the irony is they want us to acknowledge other grps but all they do is discredit bts for their achievements and what they contributed for kpop.
And saying bts benefited from the kpop industry is so weird considering the kpop industry is what made bts go through all that bullshit when they debuted.
At this point bts even paved the way for themselves, tbh this is not even something that people should be arguing about i mean there are many reasons why the phrase is true. The other fandoms obviously won't agree because they are not fans of bts, people can believe what they make up in their minds to be the truth or a lie so it's up to them but the numbers and the impact can't lie. At the same time we as bts fans don't need to mention it where it's unnecessary or when it's other groups' to time to shine as that can hurt the fans of those groups, i would be upset too... But then again i can't control what other armys do or say.
We don't even need to mention it to prove bts paved the way, their achievements and success are enough to say it.
This video is what I want to talk about whenever someone disagrees with the "BTS paved the way" narrative
"India is a part of Asia, but many of you don't realise that"
As an Indian I can assure you that this statement is hella true 😂😂😂😂
Aside from that, it's a great video....
They didn't break any barriers. Despacito is in Spanish.
Genghis Khan paved the way.
Bunny aliens who are from the planet bini who are against the planet bygo paved the way for entertainment.
The Magical Intelligent Sea and its agents paved the way!
I just can't anymore with the same, old "but in asia" arguments. Can't these people just not accept that bts paved the way and sit down already
When they say "kpop was dominating Asia" They mean china and Japan, but Asia is the biggest continent in the world, as an Indian and Asian I never heard of kpop before bts grabbed my attention and it's 2022 and indians can barely name any kpop group or artist apart from bts and I m sure neither other Asian countries even knew about kpop until bts changed the scene all over the world
K-pop was popular in Southeast Asia, China, and Japan even before BTS became famous.
Oh MyGOD!! This is going to be so good! I cannot wait
YYYYYAAAAAAASSSSSS I’M SO READY FOR THIS
I appreciate this so much. I am not ARMY, but have grown to appreciate the fight for equality that BTS & ARMY have/is going through. I like other K pop groups as well, but try to understand why ARMY is so protective of BTS. I think you did a great job of breaking things down. I knew Psy's name, but that's all I knew, never knew he was from S. Korea or anything about him, only knew that one song, never took the time to find out more about a whole career outside of that song. I've never heard of any of the other K Pop artists that you named (no disrespect intended at all). Because there's so much material out there on BTS, and because I heard BTS (not ARMY), talk about their goal/mission to help people, I wanted to learn more about BTS. I've heard/viewed a lot of videos on this, a lot of positivity and a lot of negative. I don't like fandom wars, I like focusing on the artists (not singular). In short, I personally agree that BTS has paved the way, I'm grateful they did, now I can start knowing more K Pop artists.....(I'm not stereo typing K Pop)....again I do not mean to offend anybody. Thank you for sharing.
Somebody send this to that TH-camr "Everglow up" lmao... Maybe this can put some sense into her head about this.
Oh, I know her. She's too far gone, lol /j
@Babybear she is like "I don't feel like only 1 artist can pave the way" and repeats it on every single video of her like a broken record. Michael Jackson alone paved the way for pop music, and no one will deny that. But when it comes to BTS, what actual Koreans say just becomes "armys claim". Sunmi & Psy clearly said they paved the way lol.
BTS is the reason why I became a Kpop fan and why I now support other groups such as ATEEZ and SKZ. Just speaking for myself (and that’s all I’m qualified to speak for), BTS certainly paved the way for me becoming a Kpop fan.
I'm really tired of this discourse that mainly is coming from kpop stans taking the whole "X group paved the way" way too seriously. I usually just take it as the fandom expressing their love for a group, there's no need to take it too literal or too personal I think? These kind of comments only keep fueling unnecessary fanwars and drama IMO.
Then again maybe I have this mindset cause I'm an only ARMY (or is it ARMY only?) and before BTS I mostly listened to rock and metal groups so I don't really care about other kpop groups or their influences, do they need ARMYs like me, who never took any interest in other kpop groups to say out loud "yes, they are where they are now thanks to X o Y group"? Can't they just enjoy their own thing without having ARMYs' validation?
As an INDIAN myself...i too agree that INDIA is a part of asia ppl really don't think like that...but yeah kpop was only a passive word in INDIA B4 BTS...possibly u will hear psy's gangam style or exo's song that too hardly not much tho...bcz our own bollywood tollywood and music market is huge in our country to the point that our own population can give views of most countries combined and its the first time that a concert of a non-Indian artist got streamed in our theatres...and kpop got interviewed here after bts even news (zeenews) reports about bts on news even in pakistan ppl support bts....bts sold out each theatre that their concert got streamed on... so i would say after US if bts has been trying to break the second barrier hardest is INDIA...bcz we are huge population to appeal to.....and we did pay a huge attention to music
I mean I'll say kpop had some name recognition in certain parts of the country like in the north east or some placed in southern India but it didn't crossover to the mainstream even in those places until BTS.
@@apryl21 thts what i m saying there is a huge diff right???....kpop was not accepted in mainstream but now its greatly accepted
I can see how exhausted you are by this discourse, and same. chin up :)
I totally 💯 agree w. how you explained "Paved the Way"
Thanks 😊
a very cohesive argument, great video!
it's a bit off topic, but i suddenly remembered when Epik High released Rosario with the line "I paved the way for everyone that is pavin' the way". I didn't really see people on twitter taking offence, because it's an arguably true statement and it doesn't negate the fact that bts have the impact and influence they do. it just means epik high are influencial musicians who clearly had an artistic impact on the musicians that came after them, no one is being discredited here. the only angry people i saw were the ones who understood the line as "bts didn"t pave the way" (which... bad reading comprehension skills), but i think the only reason they got heated was that the line used the exact vocabulary of this ridiculouse discourse.
it just shows how easily a phrase loses meaning on twitter and becomes a signifier for people to remember which "side of the argument" they are on, without actually trying to have a discussion with one another.
the only reason I even know other kpop groups is because of bts. before i became an army and joined kpop twitter, i had no idea who any of these groups were before besides bts. i think that says a lot
I knew about 2nd gen artists first but maybe otehrs know about 3rd gen and 4th gen artists including BTS, Blackpink, Twice, NCT, Exo, Red Velvet, aespa, Everglow and Gidle.
Bunny aliens who are from the planet bini who are against the planet bygo paved the way for entertainment.
The Magical Intelligent Sea and its agents paved the way!
0:43 and guess who still broke all the asian records too? bts, like look at japan alone
This deserves million views
Yes..my dear friend yes.. INDIA. Literally now everyone know who is BTS.. even my grandfather..listens to answer love myself song. You can watch a video on TH-cam when exo and shinee came to India and were asking people..do you know kpop.. people were just staring at them. Only one girl met them and said that she is a fan. But if now any of them ever come to India..I don't think they will ever walk freely on the streets as they did before..and if BTS comes here then.. let me tell you.. people are going to go mad.
Genghis Khan paved the way.
The silk road paved the way.
Alexander the Great paved the way.
Bunny aliens who are from the planet bini who are against the planet bygo paved the way for entertainment.
The Magical Intelligent Sea and its agents paved the way!
Love your videos thank u for this analysis 💜
I love how you said everything just right can't add anything more perfect
Another great video as usual! Thx Elliot
So so well explained!!💜💜love this
I (& lots of ppl) had no idea what KPOP was until I started listening to BTS.
So yes they definitely made kpop visible in every way possible
Bunny aliens who are from the planet bini who are against the planet bygo apparently paved the way for entertainment! Amazing news!
The Magical Intelligent Sea and its agents paved the way.
Excellently said 👏👏👏
Everyone should watch this!!!
I am gonna share your video on twitter so that people can see/hear the facts and armys can appreciate your hardwork
Thank you for this thorough, detailed, thought provoking & articulate presentation. Yes you NAILED it.
Thank you for acknowledging India 💜
Elliott, please use hashtags in your description to gain more visibility, I believe it can help your videos.
Get hype fam 🔥🔥
I love intelligent conversation and thought proving ideas. Just stop and listen, could change someone’s mind. Thank you for this discourse!
Thank you for this. Well said.
this was a great video! :) even tho i knew most of these points u still made this very interesting to watch and very educational!!
WE NEEEEEED THIS YES
Great vid! Thank u for it
I think people forget the actual term "bts paved the way" is also a phrase that's more or less shaped by the platforms we use: twitter. It's a short, catchy slogan that 1) easily catches on social media, 2) called out to ARMYs on stantwt to come and join the celebration, and 3) succinctly displays our love and enthusiasm for the group to other online users getting them to engage more. "BTS paved the way" -> what way? -> check the trending tab -> gets attention. This was especially effective early on, when the slogan was catching on. I think people just tend to find it cringey or awful NOW because it's been a few months/years. There's always a attitude cycle of genuine interest -> ironic appreciation -> uninformed dissent -> fandom purification that happens on SNS about these things, and that video and other like it feels like just another version of that. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Although, to the video's credit, I do understand how ARMYs (note, if they are even ARMYs) who use that phrase to counter other group's celebrations. Like, I get it, it does rub me the wrong way when X group wins something then BTS fans just put you down with "BTS paved the way" argument. I don't want to be the one who yaks someone's yum, but harmless competition is something that's hard to balance online, when everyone's emotions and opinions are turned waaaay up to 11.
So well done !
That first part of her video is...something. She acknowledges BTS is doing what no one else has done thereby, they've set a precedent. If that doesn't mean concluding they've paved the way then I'm unsure if her understanding/other kpop fans' understanding is the same as ARMY. In any case, its such a tiring debate. I've come to believe Kpop fans will simply never accept BTS paved the way due to their own egos. But they won't admit it.
Bunny aliens who are from the planet bini who are against the planet bygo paved the way for entertainment.
The Magical Intelligent Sea and its agents paved the way.
So well said that I wish I had someone to send this to who needed convincing haha
You definitely nailed it!! 😂💜
THANK YOU
You definitely nailed it!!!!!!!
Why don't you have millions of subs? Amazing content
"I look forward to being told that I have encouraged harassment" LOL
BTS…PAVED THE WAY💜💜💜💜💜💜💜
Thank you for your explanation…no hate on other groups but, #BTSpavedTHEway💜
BTS paved the way.
Christopher Columbus paved the way.
Jpop anime and jdrama and jfilm paved the way
Despacito paved the way.
Elvis paved the way.
this is the best video i’ve seen lmaooooo
You said it!!!
Wish it was longer, but yeah as always facts only 👌👏
being indian honestly kpop wasn't popular before bts. ppl twerked on gangnam style without knowing it was kpop. no one cared to know the language of the song. I just heard snippets of the song but gott to know its kpop song when I explored bts. some kpop idols (from exo & shinee) came to india back in 2013-2014 that time no one had hint what kpop was except 1 person there (they were on streets) psy recently said gangnam style was ofc a huge hit but overshadowed the artist's name ppl called him "the gangnam style guy" along side mentioned bts has achieved the unfulfilled dreams of gangnam style. when someone mentions "bts paved the way" it doesn't mean they pulled other kpop artists out of their left ball sack and raised them from a baby. it doesn't mean they time travelled helped 2nd gen grp to thrive. It simply means their international and domestic impact has lead to opportunities for other grps that come after them. before bts gott recognition and invited to these amas bbmas kpop artists didn't really dream or mention to be there and after all this bts success artists do mention these as their goals.
saotaji boys, psy & 2nd gens had impact in asia but excluding desi countries because countries have their own big entertainment market BUT bts did reach all these countries and made it globally its smthg to appreciate.
in my opinion bts did pave the way because ppl wouldn't even know or care about what kpop is if it wasn't for bts.
Exactly
"no one cared to know the language of the song." Fake news! I cared.
@@PriyaK-fm7eq It's fake news. I cared that it is in Korean.
@@jameshenrysmith that's an exception. majority didn't care bc why wd psy mentioned that ppl didn't even know from which country he was and doesn't even know his name. what w "fake news" it's not even a news on first place 😭
@@PriyaK-fm7eq The bunny aliens paved the way.
YASSSS!!💜
I agree with all ur arguments!
I miss seeing you on Twitter, you were often one of the most reasonable people on army sns
I'm a recent fan of your video essays. They are great. I hope you make a comprehensive video essay about their discography, from school trilogy to present, how they roll out their albums, what they talk about and how it reflects the stages in their lives. I always see introduction videos about them but none indepth about their music. I feel you will do justice regarding this aspect of bts.
Bunny aliens who are from the planet bini who are against the planet bygo paved the way for entertainment.
The Magical Intelligent Sea and its agents paved the way.
haven't watched this yet but yes elliot
I always appreciate Elliot’s logic and analytical process. Really enjoyed this and it feels like you put a giant period on the argument.
Bunny aliens who are from the planet bini who are against the planet bygo paved the way for entertainment.
The Magical Intelligent Sea and its agents paved the way.
The Magical Intelligent Sea and its agents paved the way.
Completely agreed on your points. I actually saw this video the other day but then I saw another person on yt saying BTS didn't paved the way and her reason was because they actually make it worse for others to make it (because they would always be compared to BTS) she may said some other similar reason also but I can't remember. I came back this video and I still agreed with you but I'd be curious to know your thoughts about this statement.
That person's statement is a completely illogical counter-argument imo. It's true that BTS weren't often compared to any other Korean acts when they first made their international breakthrough, simply because no other Korean artist had managed to become as big as them. However, since BTS were the first Korean/K-pop act to become very popular worldwide, they were (and still are) often treated with prejudice and distrust because K-pop was a new and often stigmatised thing in many countries. BTS didn't initially have access to international talk shows and radioplay; on Billboard, there was no K-pop chart to speak of. But fast-forward to now when BTS have enabled K-pop to become more popular internationally: new K-pop acts have access to all the things BTS didn't, not through their own merit, but because BTS normalised these things. It's actually an advantage that they're being "compared" to BTS because now non-Koreans are more used to K-pop and are less likely to treat it with disdain or stigma. At most, there are a few interviewers who make rude statements about a certain K-pop act being "the next BTS" or comparing BTS to them; however, the fact that BTS became popular is the reason these interviewers even know of and talk about other groups
Would also like to add that since BTS are the very first K-pop act to become so popular, they'll always be the known as the first to achieve something (BBMAs, Grammy noms, Spotify records, etc). So in that sense it is hard for other K-pop groups to achieve something without being compared to BTS. But at the end of the day, BTS' success gives other groups more international exposure and income. It makes the difference between being the second group to be nominated for a Grammy VS never being nominated at all. So yea, rather rambly reply but just wanted to give my two cents
Bunny aliens who are from the planet bini who are against the planet bygo paved the way for entertainment.
The Magical Intelligent Sea and its agents paved the way.
The Magical Intelligent Sea and its agents paved the way.
I find it very uncomfortable whenever people bring up African American history during a unrelated argument. Its like they bring us up to add a little spice to their argument lol. It’s unrelated here in particular. Because BTS have always, actively paid homage to Black artist, and hip hop/rap artist specifically. I think most armies know who their influences are. In fact BTS are known for introducing old and new artist to their fans.
Bunny aliens who are from the planet bini who are against the planet bygo paved the way for entertainment.
The Magical Intelligent Sea and its agents paved the way.
The Magical Intelligent Sea and its agents paved the way.