you're wrong about k-pop: a video essay
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.พ. 2020
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edited and artistically directed by Danae O.
written, narrated and scored by Elliot Sang and Danae O.
thumbnail by jalious art / jaliousart
special thanks to Modooborahae, Bfly, Cristina Lai, Gaby Gloria and everyone else who assisted in putting together this video
a reminder that this is not an attack video on Cuck Philosophy. his video did point out some of the worst aspects of the idol music industry--some of which have changed, others which take new forms in 2020. and it incorporated some strong information about Korean history. it's important to remember that these extreme examples do not represent the entire industry, as many solely demonstrate the worst offenses of specific labels from the past; however, issues of overwork, neoconservatism, exploitation and more still pop up fairly often amongst k-pop idols.
this video is meant to show the range of artistry, intention, and experiences within k-pop--as well as investigating what k-pop really is. why is korean pop music so aggressively dismissed by people in the west? why do we create these essentialized narratives to altogether delegitimize a music industry abroad when the very same can be done of our own? what really makes k-pop so much worse than english language pop?
in this video, danae and i investigate three issues we have with cuck philosophy's popular video, "the late capitalism of k-pop", and how it can be used to further perpetuated these distorted narratives about korean pop music, despite its stronger qualities.
numbers and artists cited in this video, by the way, are mostly from 2017 and earlier to fit within the temporal constraints of the original video, which was released in late 2017. i aimed to demonstrate that even three years ago, these issues with cuck philosophy's video would still be valid. but, of course, in 2020, the issues have become more dated altogether given how there are constant increases in humane(r) practices within the industry, as well as a neverending influx of idols with creative control, among other things.
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I love a definition of kpop by Min Yoongi, to summarise what he said "Kpop is more like integrated content. It includes the music, but also the choreography, the hair, makeup etc."
Excatly, kpop = music, choreography, fashion, image. It's not just music and it's not a genre.
@@xstoofpeer We all know that kpop is an industry... just like Hollywood...
The point here is that that industry doesn't include just music...like movies in Hollywood for example. It includes music, choreography, fashion, looks, personality, variety shows, acting and a lot of other stuff. That's his point...
That was a really good interview btw, it really showcased BTS as artists.
suh All modern music is an industry .-.
Yes Yoongi is describing Idol group/music. There is no such thing as kpop in Korea.
When I wore my BTS sweatshirt to school my PreCalc teacher asked me if it was true that if one of the members in a K-pop group gets sick or hurt before performing, the company just replaces them and puts someone else in their place (basically a stunt double) without the fans knowing. I honestly was so shocked on how misinformed he was, it was honestly sad because everyone gets their information from someone else instead of researching themselves.
what the hell? hard to think a person would really believe that bs
how ironic , bc i was in a video about DESTINY'S CHILD and they are talking about how one the integrants (if i am not mistaken when they were four of them) was sick and someone suggest a backup dancer take her spot bc "no one will realise" and how two of them were neglected and fired without being notificated , dont matter where , every industry will be trash
This is kinda racist because he probably thinks that no one would notice because "all asians look the same".
What an insult to both us and the members
That used to happen. They would put on a mask on someone else and make perform with the group. Fans knew that wasnt the artist, of course, because they were injured. Happened in concerts mostly
i once told a friend of a friend that i like bts and he said "you do know that they were created to sell clothes and merchandise, right? like all of kpop." he said it as if western labels finance artists out of the goodness of their hearts or to support their creative expression. or as if western artists don't have brand deals. it's so crazy how people can see these things in worlds that feel foreign to them but not their own. created to sell clothes smh.
It's a very cynical approach. Yes, they have to make money like everyone else who has any other job, but they create a certain value, same as other people who do their job
And now every western artists only sell merch bundled with a free music copy to chart lmao.
This. Like as if UMG and other labels are just about the music. Suuuuure
How insulting is that! Just thinking how much these groups went through and work hard to be the best they can be devalued like that. It makes me mad and sad at the same time.
@@junkyuseum yes they are exploited by Korean companies
I'm going to link this under every "dark side of kpop" tweets
Pada 👍
me too
Same
@NCT stands for Neo Crackhead Technology Same!!!! I love BAP! I still listen to there music...
@NCT stands for Neo Crackhead Technology not quite! 😂👍✌
I'll bet few of these critics complain when the sports industry takes hopeful young athletes and exerts complete control - deciding what they wear, forcing them to adhere to a strict schedule of performances- er, I mean games, and making them display their athletic abilities within the strict confines of a particular sport's rule book. It bugs me to no end that most of these critics probably enjoy watching professional and collegiate sports but never see the irony. We have no problem enjoying a spectacle presented by the NBA or NFL - essentially created within the exact same paradigm as idol music. The Korean idol music business model more closely resembles major league sports than other music industries in a lot of ways (and improves upon it). But when super talented, ambitious, driven kids in tight-fitting matching Lycra dance and sing instead of hit each other or chase a ball, it's suddenly scandalous. And even worse, it's trivialized because mostly girls like it. A lot of grown-ass men who snicker and say "K-Pop is for girls" as if that's an insult also spend every weekend screaming with glee at the TV while dressed like their favorite running back.
So true. People have no problem at all supporting other toxic industries like the NBA or NFL, Hollywood, anime etc but when it comes to kpop everyone turns into mother Teresa, its ridiculous
@@pasteldaze Well, that's not exactly my point. I don't think sports or entertainment industries are inherently toxic. I think people are toxic and they exist in all places, jobs, etc. Plenty of scandalous shit is going down in your neighborhood grade school faculty room right now. Trust me. My point is that it's hypocritical to enjoy one thing while attacking another thing when they are pretty much the exact same thing.
I think about this all the time.
I've had this thought for so long! Thank you for expressing this.
Wow. *Claps* so well written
the misinformation is so bad ... my English teacher literally asked me the other day if it was true that three members of BTS had died and been replaced by three new members lmao
no where the hell do these people get their information?
My English teacher once asked me , if I use a Samsung because I like kpop🤦♀️
Where do they get these fake information ? And yeah a sumsung phone ? What is the problem if we use a sumsung phone? 😂 don't worry army . Haters always gonna spread these fake rumours about us and bts . As rm said haters gonna hate and players gonna play .
Why am I laugh laughing how misinformed are they🤣🤣😭💀
This is one is bit funny lmao... I mean teachers should be mature enough to not believe in such things but how the hell he believed this bullshit 😂😂
I get consistently asked, if a member of BTS were to fall ill or leave the group would they just replace the member and continue? Because, BTS must be a BRAND not a group that depends on the individuality and the talents of each member, right? Its getting very VERY annoying...will be linking this to people in the future thats for sure!
But what make BTS is the bond itself. They won't be BTS if they don't have the bond. And same as Ikon. They are low key rebelling to Yg for kicking a member out. And Twice or Red Velvet will always has that one spot empty for a member who cannot attend. Those bonds are real. I am happy that those 'idols' build their bonds and really shown it nowadays.
R Vermillion
Yeah, did you see how mad Bobby was during one of the tours right after B.I left the group? He usually stays to play with the fans but he was the first to storm off the stage. To say that these members can just be “replaced” is so belittling to their bonds. If a member is hurt or sick, depending on the seriousness, they’ll either still participate or just stay back. For example, BTS, Jungkook had to get stitches in his foot, but he was still able to sit on a chair on the stage and sing. But then when Jimin was having severe muscle pain, he didn’t join the others for their Graham Norton Show interview, and for me, it just didn’t feel right. It felt like the members were missing his presence just as much as the fans.
While singing Mixtape #4, Stray Kids member Felix still sang “Stray Kids nine or none, we’re gonna cross the finish line” even though the 9th member, Woojin, left the group not too long prior to the concert.
So sad that such disrespectful and ignorant lies like the one the original commenter mentioned are being spread.
Gabby Velasquez My dad said something similar. I'm a huge fan of EXID. One of the members was off because of hyperthyroidism. He said and I quote. “Why don’t they just replace her so they can keep on going normally.” WTF!
Estela Lopez
So he would purposefully hurt his foot just so he wouldn’t have to perform?? Are you listening to yourself? These people know how difficult being an idol is. They’re the ones that signed up for it. Granted, there are terrible companies out there, and I do have an issue with idols being overworked, but most idols know at least partially what hardships to expect.
Plus, BTS only renewed their contract in 2018, 5 years after they debuted. That was around the time Jin said they had been talking about disbanding. JK didn’t have to renew his contract if he didn’t want to, he had plenty of time to decide if he wanted to keep being a member or not, and we can see where he is now.
Estela Lopez
Funny to think that out of the hundreds of K-Pop groups out there, none of them are actually friends and put on daily acts to appear close. Weird, huh?
I absolutely agree with the fact that there's a huge double standard. Western artists can rely on producers and song writers and people will still love them for a number of reasons yet they only complaina obout k-acts. Personally i like when artists ar einvolved in the music they are sharing but that's not what we're discussing the problem here is how the western assumes there's no artistic value on certain music just because it's coming from the korean music industry. Ignorance at its best.
Lara Rodríguez
Insecurity and jealousy also comes into play, here. Some people just think they and their favorite artists are “superior” because they were raised in America. My own sister said these exact words, “Foreign stuff is stupid”. It’s sad, really.
a lot of mainstream artists in the west dont even create their own music or have any control over the creative process, but no one wants to talk about that huh
Agreed, though I might put the emphasis of this on mainstream idol 'k-pop' rather than all music from Korea. It seems that most people making these assumptions they have no awareness of the many genres and variations, especially not indie artists.
I mean generally western artists have a lot more creative control to the point that independent artists can be super successful, in SK if you want to succeed you have to be in an idol company which are only now willing to let idols participate in the creative process but even then it’s only male idols who have that privilege in some companies (ehem YG). The way the Kpop industry works is basically how 90’s/early 00’s pop industry functioned: attractive teens/young adults that singed and danced, were heartthrobs and behaved like model citizens. Still the contracts are hella abusive.
@@rubyjane9119 did u even watch this video? Independent acts are still very popular in sk and as already proved in the video idol music is not even the most popular music in sk, ballads are.
let’s just agree on one thing: all music industries, no matter the country, are exploitative
absolutely untrue
@@underscore4505 jeopardy
@@lacanian1500 yup lol great album
lotta continua
One word, Disney. Arianna Grande, Miley Cyrus, Justin Timberlake, Demi Lavato etc. all came from that "factory". But hey they dont talk about that.
Agree but wasn’t Ariana produced from Nick+broadway?
Exactly.
And iconically, sm rookies (NCT and SMs next girlgroup) made their predebut appearences on a Micky Mouse show in Korea
Deactivated Angel not everything is caused by disney or US companies. y'all are way too much. Korean can be just as exploitative
@@MeiHeart1 huh? we are saying western music industry can be very manufactured and yes can be very manipulative. Calling out Korean music industry while ignoring sht happening back home is just propaganda.
loved this video. the “research” that these commentary channels tend to do on k-pop only really serve to confirm their own biases against the industry, are very superficial and lack perspective.
Precisely.
im sorry but it's because it's true. kpop thrives on the most explorative parts of capitalism and they people that can't see it are just ignorant to abuse. this is coming from a kpop fan.
@@dianvarughese3556 i wrote this a long time ago. pretty sure it was about people/essayists not being nuanced when they talk about the industry there. that western hyper fixation on the short comings of the the music industry overseas, while ignoring what happens in their own backyard.
@@toastiezzz that's super ignorant on your part, if you had watched Cuck Philosophy's video or even more his channel wouldn't have said something so ridicules. This video "response" is completely missing the point
@@toastiezzz The thing is Kpop is based on western methods but with an increase of exploitation, abuse, control and less freedom to these artists. the first thing to be said is the dependance on record labels on Korea meanwhile in western pop they have more space to not rely on labels. Also, to justify that "kpop is not so bad if u consider western pop is also bad" is just to disregard everything and be like "do not complain just focus on your side". It is not only kpop though, it is south korea and even Eastern Asia as a whole, because if it wasn't, Japan and South Korea wouldn't have the biggest suicide rates.
thank you. we really needed this well researched side of the story in a world where the "the dark side of kpop" narrative is so generalized. even i, that have been in the kpop scene for a while, learned new things about Korea's music culture and history with this.
You said EXACTLY everything I have been trying to explain to my friend for over a year now! I had these same talks with another friend (kpop fan) about how cruel the whole music/entertainment industry is not only in South Korea but the world. I still remember the case of ke$ha but people still just criticized foreign music industries when even Western music industry is as dark and scary as any other one.
At least Kesha is still alive
Carmen T. Saldaña this is so true. As someone from America the industry here is awful too. It seems as if everyone focuses on jonghyun when talking about “the dark side” of kpop but never focus on all the overdoses and depression in the western music industry
@@yoshitheorbit1118 *cough* avicii,chester bennington, christina grimmie etc. *cough*
The original video should have been about ''Late capitalism of music''. Because we could find corporate models of music in almost every country. It's not about the place, it's just a method that is trying to force-feed us with their products and no place is safe from that.
Karolis Šulcas Christina Grimmie was shot. The industry didn’t kill her, a psycho did
I am taking an asian popular culture course at my university and all of it is great: japanese horror, anime, bolywood as a revolutionary cinema, chinese popular culture as a means of fighting authoritarian regime. And then we have Hallyu wave🤦♀️ And guess what my young, hip and progressive lecturer has written as main points about it in a program: plastic surgery, alternative masculinities and the phenomenon of cuteness😭😭. Even at universities, this shit hurts. I actually was designated to make slides about kpop and was happy about it. But then i asked what he thinks should be in them, he said that he will just give us academic articles a week prior, so that it would be serious presentation and not some sort of opinions". Not gonna lie, i am scared of what i will have to do if he is going to give me stereotypical bs, judging from the fact that all of his literature on this theme is prior 2015 and from chinese and american scholars.
Play this video for the class for your presentation then drop a mic.
@@xingou6345 I wish i could😭😭😭😭
@@pppLT19 Do extra research to counter what you think will be their weapon. Maybe mental health, fashion & make up, etc etc. I think it's good this video is arrived on time for another perspective.
@@pppLT19 bro if he gives u some stereotypical bs (I hope he doesn't) then please do your research on how to counter it. this video itself is a good reference point.
Heck, you could even show this video as it is actual research! It would probably blow away your under -researching audience
You could also use the "JYP 2.0" video (or part of it) - it has bits on mental health for all staff, and the organic food court
i think this is one of the most in depth videos about korean music i have ever watched. i've many of those "dark side of kpop" videos, including the one most recently put out on i think it was hulu, which have thin, one dimensional analysis. a good argument needs to address both sides of an issue, which i think this video has, and will keep happening as this series continues. can't wait to link this whenever someone tries to make the korean music industry into some worse hell than the western music industry.
Sameeeee
When you said “I know you don’t know these people but they’re k-hip hop and k-rnb artists” part of me was like “psst, Jay Park used to be an idol before becoming a soloist and ZICO is still part of Block B technically” lol. But honestly, I love idol music as much as I love k-hip hop/k-rnb, and I still get confused at people who label them as the same thing...
Also: I’m so happy you analyzed this so thoroughly and got my exact ideas across for once! I finally feel like someone understands!
you took the words out of my mouth!!!
"All Idol music is Kpop"
Okay, this is such a minor point in a long and well researched video, and I'm sure this isn't what you meant, but Idol music also exists in Japan and China. One might argue that Japan created the system to begin with. So all Idol music is Pop music, but it can also be J-Pop, among other things.
Lee Sooman (Mr SM himself) said that he created the system/industry as a mix of popular music in the west and idol trainee system from Japan. I saw it in multiple interviews.
As much as I like idol music, korean hip hop and korean pop I gotta say - he created the system that went dark really fast for artists, but gold really fast for companies and I hate that.
@Estela Lopez I know that but...no one mentioned producers here... I was talking about the system itself.
there have been non-pop idol groups tho
like Dots
I think he did say that it was debatable.
I actually dont think Idol Music has a specific genre of music. Ofc the most used genre is pop, but there are many idol groups who make rock, r&b, hip hop music and sometimes there are groups that blend many musical genres together, like aespa for example!!
"Where you at dean? we're waiting" i felt that. where he at
Oh my Buddha, I've been a Korean music fan since mid-90's & this is the most thorough, accurate, and articulate video essay that I HAVE EVER SEEN. This video needs to be seen by every single Kpop fan. You're simply one of just a small handful of true Kpop historians that deserve that moniker. The way you slice right through that paper-thin veneer hit-piece video was just beautiful. Thank you from the bottom of my frustrated heart!!!
This video isn't just informative for non-fans who have misconceptions about k-pop - it's also informative for many, many fans. There's so many k-pop fans out there who firmly believe that everything they see is manufactured and scripted, that every single Korean artist is nothing but a pawn in the hands of their agency, and so forth. Thank you so much for your hard work, I'll be sure to stick around to see how this series goes on!
The k-pop industry is clearly dark. there are clearly deep rooted issue in it. however, most industries have very bad issues from sports, to academics, to reality shows. They put young hopefuls in manipulative situations and try to sell you them like products. Most of the hate against kpop is lowkey (or highkey) racist. It paints the idea of the submissive asian or the fact that all non-western countries are messed up. Yes, terrible things happen in kpop and many go unaddressed even by us fans, but the angle in which the "criticism" of the genre comes in...is often quite misinformed. Amazing video. Thank you.
Catz1a I don’t think it’s racism. y’all can’t call everything racist. I do believe that it’s just plain ignorance.
@@ajaiy ''they all look the same'' ''if you replace one with another they wont even notice'' yeah clearly no racism out there.
Karolis Šulcas i think it’s more of them not being able to tell them apart. when I first started getting into kpop, I was kinda the same but not as bad. but now that I know my idols more, it’s obviously easier. ofc people who have no interest in kpop are gonna say weird shit like that. some maybe are “racist” but most aren’t.
@@ajaiy it's not even about kpop lmao I see those comments against asians in general in non-kpop field. It's just blatant racism towards asians.
Karolis Šulcas ik. I see it sometimes too but I’m not just gonna go around calling everybody racist for it. i mean some Asians themselves even say that just bc people don’t like kpop or whatever, it’s racism and that’s not always the case.
Me: *expressing that I like BTS in the slightest *
Others: *offensive generalization about kpop *
Me: *tries to explain *
Others: "Kpop fans are toxic"
???
Exactly I do the same and I'm suddenly considered "triggered" or "toxic" like what-
I don’t want the western music industry to preach to me about how messed up the kpop industry when the way that Brittney Spears has been treated for 20 years with no really criticism of that treatment until recent
what happened to britney is wrong so why defend this
someone please send this to shane dawson
even if we see newer kpop groups like ateez, hongjoong, the leader, has written over 400 songs for the group and him along with mingi, the other rapper, ofter write the raps of their songs and produce said songs, they even made the choreography for their debut song Pirate King! but no! kpop bad! western industry good! or something
i think it was over 40 songs but the point definitely still stands.
edit: i came across that clip again and the subs actually did say _400_ songs,,,,holy shit my bad dude
FOUR HUNDRED? HUH?
Wait why shane Dawson did he say something or
400?!! Holy fuck that’s talent
BTS
Seventeen
Idle
Dreamcatcher (sorta, Dami writes her raps)
and i'm sure there are more
Edit: Oneus, Ateez
Full disclosure, I'm not a kpop fan, so ever since joining the ARMY I've been witnessing what's been happening with an outsider's perspective. The main difference I notice when it comes to the weight and being skinny shit that happens all over the world, hello? Is that in Korea is taken as something completely natural. They feel bad if they're not slim or, god forbid, they gained weight. While in the west they might feel the exact same way about gaining weight but it wouldn't be taken as natural to say it or express it out loud cause they know they'd get a lot of shit if they ever dared to do that. Meaning that pressure to be skinny is everywhere but in SK is taken as something expected and absolutely natural. Both things suck, the real problem is glorifying being slim, but there's a different approach, that's undeniable
fi0rella agree. People always wanna complain about how toxic Korean beauty standards are (including weight), as if those aren’t a thing in every single culture on earth. Koreans are just upfront that their standards are rigid, whereas other cultures are less honest about it but just as insidious about spreading them/expecting others to fit into them. I’m not saying anyone’s beauty standards are good/bad - like I said, every culture has had them to some degree all throughout history so it really just seems like a human society thing.
I get ridiculed for being skinny so everyone has different problems.
Am definitely saving this video for later. I'm looking forward to watching because I'm so tired of seeing "DARK SIDE OF KPOP????" videos with the same reused/clickbait subjects; it's refreshing to see a different take. I will definitely update my comment when I can actually fully watch this later!
Is that Tablo??!!!
The guy who speaks at the beginning of the vid? Yep, it's him. Mr blobyblo himself.
Yeah he has a youtube channel now too
The number of times I talk about loving K-pop and someone, sometimes total strangers, will start bending my ear about forced plastic surgeries, slave contracts and starvation diets, talent shows that produce singing robot stars. I just want to scream: have you never heard of Simon Cowell, How about Ke$ha, or literally every artists under contract with Mowtown back in the day. DOES THE NAME MICHAEL JACKSON MEAN ANYTHING TO YOU??? As someone who likes a lot of indie Korean Music as well as idol groups it makes me crazy that people with no knowledge of South Korean history, music or culture feel completely confident making blanket statements absent the facts as a way to keep themselves warm and snug in their sense of moral superiority.
The short version of this comment is I really like your video. I've enjoyed others of yours in the past but this one really struck a chord. Nicely done.
a lot of kpop criticism comes from a place of orientalism. asian pop culture is always seen as "weird" and "obscure"
this falls apart immediately once you realize that korean pop culture is in many ways just a more corporate version of ours and that this is something that plenty of people bring up lmfao. but keep blaming racism instead of rampant capitalism since you wanna be a clown so much
@@bugcatcher101 im saying the entertainment industries both in the us or korea arent much different.
@@bugcatcher101 the points in the video said that the kpop industry is not much different from our western version. it is literally racism and xenophobia that fuels it, the points were shown and all you have to do is just think with your brain why injuries, passing out, deaths are treating so differently by western and kmedia and then you will finally understand.
i don't understand why people like you are so desperate to make a point that you overlook obvious things like this.
All criticism I have personally heard irl is from an anti capitalist perspective usually also focusing on the "spectacle" of the music
@@alpharius1015 Thats crazy cause the western industry also works under capitalism so where do we go from there
"Kpop groups don't have any creative ability"
🤔 Ok. Ok. Let's go through my favorites playlist to see how long it takes to run into a self-produced group. Well, first up is (G)I-DLE and they help make their music so that didn't take long. But maybe that's just chance, let's keep going (also, I'm using "produced" to mean "helped in the creative process in some way")
Sunmi - self-produced
Pentagon - self-produced
Porcelain and the Tramps - not Korean
ONEUS - write their rap lines, at least
Ateez - self-produced
BTS - self-produced
DAY6 - self-produced
Wanna One - not self-produced but some songs produced by Pentagon members
Cherry Bullet - not self-produced but some songs produced by other idols
BTS again
VIXX - member Ravi has more than 100 song writing credits to his name
Ravi - see above
GOT7 - self-produced
Pentagon again
And now that I've randomly selected groups so I couldn't be accused of cherry picking I'm going to add Seventeen and Stray Kids to the list, too, because members of both groups play huge roles in the creative process.
But people watching this video probably already know this so I'm going to go post this on the video the comment is actually from
that doesn't change the fact that most of those groups had to go through the trainee program but go off
most groups have songs and choreography given to them tho. even when starting as a rookie, they have no control over what type of concept they want to do like if they want to do girl crush, r&b, cutesy, or like even hip hop. most of the time its forced without any of the members' input. also, see how you didn't mention a lot of girl groups that can get FULL control over their music. pls don't think that just because you mentioned a few groups out of the 100+ that there are, kpop isn't flawed. the kpop industry is very controlled but so is the whole western music industry.
@@DAISY-xc7or i think the problem is that they just focused on kpop but they don't say any word about western, that's double standard
@Estela Lopez ever heard bts and gidle? They are self produce group
@Estela Lopez and stray kids
this is insanely good and well researched, even if a bit too kind towards the western audiences consuming and using the type of videos against kpop like the one discussed... but I perhaps understand the reason why it is so. Loved it and I can't wait for more!! Seeing someone educated and respectful on this subject while being critical at the same is amazing plus you're so well articulated it makes it even better.
I applaud you for this video! Nobody is excusing or trying to cover up all the horrible things that happened (and are still happening) in the K-Pop industry, but it's not okay to generalize and act like that's all that K-Pop is about. On top of that, many fail to realize that the exact things are happening in western entertainment industries too, but since we're so accustomed to them, we easily gloss over them and act like they're not happening, villainizing other cultures instead of focusing on ours, first and foremost.
@Estela Lopez Ok. How so?
I'm completely sure that western media loves focusing on the dark side of kpop to distract themselves from their own problems in music industry that are not better at all.
Wow. I'm so impressed with your research work. It seems like it took a huge amount of time going through all of that. I applaud you :) And keep going.
Yeah capitalism is in its entirety is a bad thing
atleast we as fans dont control the artist personal life, you guys literally get up set when one of your artist went on a date
@@Sebastian-cu2zq nice joke lol
i blame this all on shane dawson, dont get me wrong i love him but that one video of showing idols passing out and him treating kpop idols as if they werent human was just not it.
I’m a buddy and I’m so tired of SinB’s fainting being exploited left and right about people that couldn’t care less about her, gfriend or even kpop to spread their agenda. It must be so embarrassing for her to see it go that viral
They spawned the abysmal decrepit fiends that say "stan", and therefore are sub-human monsters
@Estela Lopez
I mean.... doesnt everybody? You're making it seem like it's a bad thing lol. If that's the case then everybody should be seen as bad because they're working hard to make money.
@Estela Lopez
Yeah.. that’s kind of the whole point of working.
lol this comment didnt really age well oof...
The lazy locals that always link that video probably won't even give this a click but I'll try lol
Even the "heavily mechanized groups" like twice and SNSD are known for having creative input on some of their songs and performances
points were made throughout this whole video
also, other good examples are Stray kids who write their own songs about depression, anxiety, stress, being told you won't make it and so much more, 3 of their members have their names on every single song they have ever made
and Ateez, their leader who wrote over 400 songs, memorized 200 vocabulary words in one night and actively writes, produces and composes
i'm sure there's so many more i'm missing here and these are just a few examples
ok so i watched a really good documentary about the "dark side of kpop" before even listening to kpop, but obviously i never thought that that was the only side of it... Also "they only make happy songs to seem perfect"
when kpop artists literally make a lot of depressing and sad songs about their struggles...
informative video! seems like much of anti-kpop/idol sentiment comes from either xenophobia or the time honored tradition of hating things popular with young girls
what reason is there to be pro-kpop/idol? other than liking it
Just in case, if anyone is wondering why X or Y idol with creative control wasn't included in this video, in part it's because we couldn't fit every artist in a video that only begins to talk about the scope of the idol scene. We focused *mostly* (as stated in the video description) in videos within the timeframe of the original Cuck Philosophy video (aka. the artists that were already active at the time of his video's release). But there was also another factor:
Cuck Philosophy's video also made several generalizations about the aesthetic and sound of Korean idol music ("music videos are brighter and the hooks sharper", designed to "desperately" try to appeal to everyone, characterized by excess, etc.), so the choice of videos was also (in part, given time constraints) based in showing videos that didn't fit that stereotype to implicitly disprove that too. And well, I also just stuck to what I personally knew more to avoid possible mistakes, haha.
In any case, an artist not being included does not mean they're less important in this discussion (there are other artists that I also wish I had added, such as EXID), so feel free to talk about other examples in the comments!
Great job on editing this great video! I really hope this video gets around and educates outsiders and end the stigma against Korean artists and idol groups.
@@amayaaries thank you! we hope this video helps in fighting the stigma too.
As a Korean-American who watched Cuck Philosophy’s video (and as a Seventeen fan lmao) I’m really glad you made this response. Cuck Philosphy made some decent points and I like his other videos, but the weaponization of his broad statements and vast oversight of a lot of Korean cultural context in that video as a justification for xenophobia that a lot of the viewers and commenters took away from it frightened me. Thanks for the disclaimer that your video essay was from the perspective of another English-speaking outsider and thanks for painting a more complete picture of South Korean musical history despite being that English speaking outsider. For this one Korean and English speaker, you did a great job.
(also the inclusion of the han definition and the Shin Joonghyun story really excited me to see!!)
It also always bugs me when people say that all idols are copies of each other as a criticism of kpop. It's called racism love, it's not my fault you think Asian people look the same
i think the "everyone copies each other" can be used as general criticism for a lot of main stream pop music, kpop or not
like the idea of the main four chords commonly used in pop music, or how when a different sound starts to get popular people might start to try replicating the success with something similar
its only valid if it applies to all of pop in my personal opinion
octolinghacker not even pop. as hiphop is getting pretty much the front spotlight now when it comes to mainstream music people notice the same industry plants all styled the same, making the same music, and playing off each other’s names. think of how many popular hiphop centric artists have the word “Lil” in their name for example
I don't think that is what people generally mean by that... This type of music, videos and performances tend to be very repetitive.
exactly
@@caspian3755 Well that's you, there are people who doesn't like it for that same reason (we could say lack of originality). It doesn't mean they are racist like the main comment is implying.
dean literally wrote one less lonely girl for Justin Bieber when he was 18
Vikktorria Lunsford really? Woah 😀
@Estela Lopez yea I know 😂
@Estela Lopez oh, well it’s cool he took part in it in general 😊
@@poppagBallZ97
This is the most positive response to a comment like (talking about how some artist didnt have the full responsibility of a song) I've ever seen.👍🏾
@@miss_chelles1338 oh thank you 😊 🤗
Funny how he say “no creativity or freedom in shaping their own music music” and then cut to a picture of Seo Taiji and boys who shaped everything they released themselves
the last bit.. louder for the people inside bubbles!
this video needs to blow up.. how about putting this in a streaming playlist can a few big playlist makers do that.. and other fandoms need to watch this n share this too, it doesn't concern just one fandom.
i've been a fan of korean music for almost 10 years now and this video got me amazed how well researched it's. It's been 30 minutes and i'm still perplexed and i'm proud (?) i have no words
@Estela Lopez yes, this happens a lot in korea, and it isn't that wrong to see it in this way because it's actually truth (from a target audience companies have pov + it's pop so it'll follow trends), but we as westerns tend to think music is just something we enjoy and there's no age limit to it. + kpop is almost attached to fandom culture, i don't see many gp listening to kpop, it's a whole different culture from us
Thank you for this. I just watched the kpop capitalism video and I agreed with most of it until I looked at all the comments. As a Korean I am VERY aware of the problems in the kpop industry and other koreans/stans are also aware of the problems. I feel like the people who ONLY criticise kpop don't actually care about the idols they literally think theyre just asian dolls or puppets. And that is very hurtful to me. Kpop isn't just some weird korean thing that I can brush off and never look at again. It's part of my culture and music, I can't just throw it away and listen to "normal" things like Billie Eilish or whatever. It hurts that I listened to westerners criticising my culture and actually doubted myself and thinking they knew so much more than us when really they don't.
you cant fucking say that kpop lacks creative autonomy when seventeen bts and stray kids exist
I really like the respectful approach you have. Just as it is wrong to generalize "K-pop", it is also wrong to generalize the audience consuming the false information as being willfully hateful. Being a minority in the U.S. I have to listen to citizens and non-citizens alike generalize the hell out of my culture while watching them go all in defending against this same thing being done to another's. You treat others respectfully even in their ignorance. Because we all have ignorant moments; we don't know what we don't know. You educate instead of preach and that is far more effective. Wish I was more social so I had someone to share your vids with.😊
the things people don't get is the trainee system. why do people see it as a controling and brainwashing experience instead of an study option like a music conservatory or an intership school???
"""why do people see it as a controling and brainwashing experience instead of an study option like a music conservatory or an intership school???
"""
because westerners are jealous because idols performence are superior.when you compare kpop performence vs western performence we know kpop mop the floor.
tbh smaller companies may be more controlling or more fucked up but at the end of the day, what you choose to study or learn is entirely up to you.
most (respected) music conservatories, even the harsher ones, don't have the conditions seen in the trainee system. they're also generally attended by adults because they are a supplement for college, not by children. if you don't see why it's strange or fucked up to have adolescents living day to day in these conditions and enduring this kind of mental and physical strain I really don't know what to tell you
@@danielbelkin4652 """most (respected) music conservatories, even the harsher ones, don't have the conditions seen in the trainee system. """
you are exactly what this video denounce. the fact you try so hard to miniimze the shittiness of the western industry is appalling. just stay mad asians done it better.
@@leteflondondu92 Literally what the fuck are you talking about? A music conservatory is just a post-secondary education for music, it's not tied directly to the western pop industry or owned by corporations and they exist everywhere in the world, including in Korea, and in most places (including Korea) the average one does not replicate the kind of conditions seen in the trainee system. To give an analogy music conservatories are not western trainee systems, it's more like test prep for high schoolers vs university proper.
And yeah as someone who has had a friend in the trainee system at a young age who has directly told me how she was basically mentally abused and degraded, shamed for her weight, etc I am going to fucking stay mad, thanks. I give literally zero fucks about "defending the western music industry" which I think is also abusive and shitty and has similar effects on the young children that are pushed into it, but I'm not going excuse false equivalences with conservatories (and again, conservatories exist everywhere) which are vastly different and have had a different impact, especially when I know people who have been hurt and fucked over by the trainee system.
Edit: This obviously isn't meant to imply that no individual conservatories or professors at them encourage shitty behavior and are in some sense abusive but from what I've seen it isn't nearly to the same extent as the pop industries in the US, Korea, or anywhere else for that matter.
Edit 2: Also I'm listening to Shonen Knife right now, a DIY Japanese all female punk band. There are again absolutely no fucking words to describe how little I care about most modern western pop music beyond the shitty labor abuses. My investment in it begins and ends with the conditions being awful and I have basically nothing but criticism for it. But you sincerely need to fucking google what a conservatory is holy god
I'm so glad Seventeen was brought up even if briefly in relation to creative freedom and input in their works (Thank you for bringing them up ^-^ )
Theres an interview where Han Sungsoo (CEO of Pledis) briefly talks about giving Seventeen creative freedom. He mentions going to their review performances in the practice room and how the boys weren't given much but would use fans and torches to re create stage effects and how he thought that was cool [1], he knew about teaching dance as an ex ballerino and ex SM manager [2] but not about music so he got his friend Rhymer (Brand New Music CEO) to take on the trainees who wanted to rap to help them with lyric writing and such as well as letting them join his companies concert once [3]. Bumzu, Seventeens vocal trainer felt he had nothing left to teach Woozi predebut and was planning to just continue on with the main vocals [4] but Woozi who had started playing with garage band on Wonwoo's laptop [5] went to him and asked him to teach him to produce which led to Woozi developing enough to produce by debut [6]. Allowing them to choreograph came from a mix of having talented choreographers working for pledis who were willing to work alongside and develop these trainees who already had to self choreograph for trainee evaluations [7]. Hyelim, Youngjoon and outside teams like Team Look have helped Seventeen grow as dancers, performers and choreographers.
[1] twitter.com/kidmingyu/status/1098107835227852800?s=20
[2] www.allkpop.com/article/2012/05/star-news-interviews-pledis-ceo-han-sung-soo
[3] www.soompi.com/article/1243469wpp/rhymer-talks-debuting-brand-new-boys-next-year-plans-wanna-ones-lee-dae-hwi-park-woo-jin
th-cam.com/video/bWWszbz1YPU/w-d-xo.html
[4] twitter.com/Cottonmochi3/status/1224185166232293376?s=20
[5] its from vlive+ but heres a transcript from amino aminoapps.com/c/carat-amino/page/blog/all-about-seventeen-vocal-team/YM1p_0dubueeodRgZvRPzbGYJZ0ZkopEWG
[6] twitter.com/Cottonmochi3/status/1224186024642760705?s=20
[7] twitter.com/17s_Diary_EN/status/956352960295940096?s=20 twitter.com/17s_Diary_EN/status/956350859205476353?s=20
twitter.com/17s_Diary_EN/status/951700801725988866?s=20
twitter.com/17s_Diary_EN/status/951065776856772608?s=20
All this doesn't even include their efforts in designing merch and other things, their input in their content like going seventeen and their vlive radio broadcasts like Warm cup of milk, Castella, Andromeda and To your ears as well as other things.
Me: likes kpop
A random person at my school: *kpop bad western good!*
your video essays about k-pop have opened my third eye
every time I come cross a new "dark side of kpop" video I need to come watch this to cleanse my mind!
This is possibly one of the best videos I have ever watched. Just wanted to say that the first part about parallels to the western world really reminded me of this section of an interview with Bang Shi Hyuck last year:
"There’s a common perception that in K-pop, the music is manufactured by committee, or that it’s a top-down system of adults giving material to young artists. Is that accurate?
Bang: First, I believe in the West there is this deeply embedded fantasy of the rock star - a rock star acts true to their soul and everyone must accept it as part of their individuality, and only through that does good music come. But in reality, devoting a long time to honing and training music-related skills is a tactic used in many professional art worlds. Ballerinas spend a long time in isolation focused only on ballet, but you don’t hear people say ballet lacks soul or isn’t art. So I think it’s a matter of perspective.
Another layer is that in the U.S., an artist will work in the underground scene for many years before signing with a major label. In Korea, that time is spent as a trainee. I think it’s debatable which system produces a better artist. In addition, I believe the statement that an artist must sing their own songs to have good results cannot possibly be true. A singer is foremost a performer, and a good performance can convince audiences. I do think when a trainee spends too much time just focusing on skills and not life experiences, it becomes a concern as to whether they can become a musician with a complex understanding of the world."
One thing about Seventeen that I think is true is that part of the reason they have control over everything, is that their company, Pledis Entertainment, is such trash. Many had to learn producing, editing, etc, because their company would not provide that for them. In fact, there were even times where their Senior Idols had to pay for their food, because the company would not. Also, their leader, is amazing. From what I learned, he is so pushy about knowing what's going on with them at the company, that he's a big reason why their company can't push them around. They really are incredible at what they do, despite how trashy their company is, and what little help they have. While I don't listen to their music, I haven't really tried it either, I do have huge respect for what they have done, and how far they have come.
Nobody:
33:14 : “In the YEET of political uproar...”
political uproar does, in fact, YEET quite a bit
bby gang I had to pause the video and think for a few mins lmaooo
As a Korean, growing up with Kpop in my whole life, I'm 100% agree with your video. I was always so sick of those generallization, and so many misunderstandings. People just underestimate so easily because they just superficially experience those kpop thing through youtube and social media, not in their real life. Actually they don't know anything about it. Anyway I'm really glad to discover this video, and thank you for making this.
your kind of content is exactly what we need within kpop! no tea, no shade, just well-researched and properly worded videos that talk about kpop.
this video is incredible! just wanted to point out that at 18:12 when cuckphilosophy is talking about idols lacking creative autonomy, not only have minho and daesung composed songs, but seohyun has also written music: all of the songs but the title track from her solo album released january 2017 were written by her, and her, sooyoung and yuri ocasionally wrote a few songs for girls generation and taetiseo. so all 3 idols he showed when stating that there is no creative freedom in kpop have some form of it.
you gotta love this irony
How do you define creativity?
-Do they have full autonomy over their content?
-How wide is the spectrum of content can they produce?
-Do you actually see something else deep within their videos other than love and common trends?
You know most artists produce the songs themselves but lack in freedom to produce whatever song they want
@@shrektheintelllectual3615 No, they don't have full autonomy over their content, but like you yourself said, most artist don't. I simply stated they have some form of it. Like any other industry, the KPOP one is diverse. There are a lot og idols that only perform. There are others that produce, songwrite, choreograph, direct music videos, design their outfits, draw album covers as well as small behind the scenes stuff such as pitching in ideas for concepts, slightly changing the melody of the song or adding in highnotes where there previously weren't any.
And yes, I see something deep other than "love and common trends" which, by the way, I don't see the problem with. Maybe check out IU's CHAT-SHIRE mini album which is fully self composed, 3 of the 7 songs are self produced and, if you happen to buy it physically, contains images she herself drew. Maybe you'll enjoy Zezé, the song she wrote from the persepective of the tree from Brazilian children's book "My little orange tree", or Glasses, the song about being willfully ignorant and refusing to use glasses to see clearly. If you're feeling melancholic you could enjoy Knees, a song about wanting to return to the embrace of her grandmother after a day of numbness, if you're cheerier but cheeky you could check out Red Queen, telling the fairytale like story of a hated and cold woman who used to be happy and loved by all. Or search the music video for Twenty Three and watch IU sing about the uncertainties of her age not only because she's a young adult but also because of having grown up in the spotlight since she was 15 and having to deal with the ever changing public perception of her. And if you feel like giving love songs a chance, Shoes and The Shower are no less enjoyable.
@@helenaanjos3382 but as we can see all of the music you have talked about is different yet exactly the same like the new iPhone. They say it every time “it is the most advanced iPhone we have ever made.” Yet nowhere near as advanced as it should have been . We can see this capitalist trend in every kind of core philosophy attached. “Try new things and stick to the one and only that one.” That’s why we don’t see any Mozart or Beethoven coming up because our economic system rewards this exact behaviour. That’s why the idols aren’t free no matter how well paid they are and how much of the song they write, they still have to obey the capitalist law in order to turn a profit which keeps them afloat in the industry.
@@shrektheintelllectual3615 I don't think I understand this reply. Maybe it's because English is not my first language, but I really don't see the correlation between me telling you about IU's songs and the Iphone model? I'm all for criticizing capitalism and it is true that the kpop industry is a capitalist one. But don't pretend that all kpop idols are robots who exist only to follow instructions and have no creative endeavours of their own, that was what my original comment was about and what I hoped to prove with my last reply to yours. I feel the failure to aknowledge that is part of why they are so dehumanized.
Can you do a video that's just 40 minutes of that army of Heechuls dancing on a loop? I think it would really help us to understand some of the higher levels of our respective philosophies
holy crap i never knew the full political context behind 'am i wrong,' and knowing it (somehow) manages to make me have even more respect for bts than before. this was an amazing video and i'm looking forward to what you have coming in the future!
(also this is mostly because i'm incredibly biased, but one group i never really see brought up when talking about 'self-producing idols' are stray kids. three members of stray kids make up a rap/producing sub-group called 3racha and all three of them are credited on *every single song* stray kids has released. all the other members have also contributed on certain songs or in other places like choreography. additionally, something i personally really like about them is that they don't make love songs. they make songs (mostly young) people can relate to about things like depression, growing up, friendship, societal pressures, etc. a lot of their title tracks can seem off-putting to some people since they're so hard-hitting and edm-based, but i encourage everyone to check out their entire discography, there's a lot of amazing stuff in there, both lyrically and musically :D)
I love these kinds of critiques and video essays you make about pop music. Super interesting and informative. I find the parallels between seo taiji and bts with korean history and politics of their time to be very indicative of the social climate we are in (whether it be local or global). Every country has its own 'pop' and 'indie' scene, but this tunnel vision-focus of the media between western vs korean/kpop is so highly dramatized and misinformed, it's just ridiculous to talk about it sometimes.
I cannot thank you enough for this video! It was such a good watch and I enjoyed every minute of it and I feel less tense about enjoying listening to BTS when someone sees me enjoying them. And it does get extremely frustrating especially when the western music industry and Hollywood is likely worse. And yea that Shin(?) story was fucking crazy.
Kayla Crain/Tiki no industry is worse. they’re all somewhat messed up. different structures.
@Estela Lopez
I mean, no ones talking about that. They're talking about how hypocritical people can be when exposing the Dark Side of an industry that's foreign to them, while they can't do the same thing about the industry they like.
I understand what you're saying though.
At first, I wanted to send this to my friends who always diss kpop. But then I realized I’m fkn tired. I’m just gonna enjoy my kpop music and everyone else can stay pressed
Yo, it's me, 134340 miles from sanity on Twitter! I don't know how you do it, but your video essays are absolutely amazing. You are totally right when you say that many people who attempt to dissect the "dark side" of Kpop never do any in-depth research like what you have done to truly understand its beginnings. It's so tiring when I see all these people treat the entire industry as a monolith, throwing blanket statements over every idol and every company to create shock-value content over things that aren't completely true. Every company under Kpop is autonomous, and any issues within that company are because of that company and NOT because of Kpop as a whole.
So when people are like "But ____ did slave contracts!" or "_____ was overworked!" or "_______ has no creative freedom!" Okay, that's that company's problem, not Kpop as a whole.
Westerners also have a habit of assuming none of us even care about the dark side when we're actually the ones trying to make the most of a change. Hashtags for justice trend whenever there's a scandal, petitions are signed, voices are raised, and they never see it. Some of these TH-camrs and media outlets only care about getting views from talking about it instead of helping decrease the same issue they complain about.
Anyway, thank you so much for this video. It was very informative and even I learn a lot from these. Can't wait for the next installment!
Daezy Agbakoba YOOOOOOOOO
@@kajjafeeluv__775 Ayyyy what's good?
134340 lol
Damn as a professional Documentary editor I have to say it's always insane to see these kinds of videos on youtube. This shit takes so much time and effort. Solid, solid work!
Hi,
So, firstly, very strong video essay. You definitely did your homework and it’s reflected in the video.
The 2010’s was a decade of astounding change regarding the west’s relationship with korea-at least as it relates to korea’s relevance in popular discourse. There are good and bad things that come with that. Awareness of korean history and culture? that’s great. A willingness to look at the negative effects of japanese imperialism? that’s great. a greater appreciation for the art produced by korean artists? that’s great. Not being stereotyped as the typical Asian Nerd™? that’s great.
However, it does come with a cost. We’re often times not bringing awareness of korean culture, we’re just swapping stereotypes. Western awareness of korea was contingent on korea’s ability to market itself, to self-commodify, to recognize, isolate, and essentialize a limited number of characteristics and k-pop was just another example of that. It’s topical, a pretty object to remark upon like an exotic work of art, something to be appreciated easily and without much contemplation, something created for the consumption by its intended audience.
This is where Cuck Philosophy is right, k-pop (idol music) is undeniably capitalist, undeniably for an international market, and undeniably exhibits worker exploitation (worker exploitation is inherent to capitalism after all. wage labor necessitates exploitation). From its inception, korean music producers did not have the strong domestic market that, say, japanese music companies had in the same era, as a result it always looked outward, and to the west. its initial popularizer might have had anti-capitalist bent but that is not what the industry is concerned with at this stage. The thesis of CP’s video is sound and i don’t think you necessarily disagree, rather you’ve noticed that occasionally western audiences tend to use this to condemn k-pop outright, like they’re at a farmer’s market and looking around for ripe hot-takes to use later on twitter.
This too is essentialization. And you’re probably right, that a significant portion of the viewers of that video enjoyed it because it was topical, an opinion they could share later about k-pop, this abstract object which exists only to be remarked upon by the west.
I’m very much looking forward to your long-form, detailed videos which will hopefully avoid those pitfalls.
It’s sad to see so many ppl hate on Kpop especially on twitter..I hope Kpop fans spread this video on social media
This video is such a fantastic rebuttal to “kpop” stereotypes, without resorting to pettiness. Thank you for encouraging critical thinking!
"But I do like cute K-Pop stuff and I have thought about capitalism before" has got to be the most relatable thing I have ever heard 😄
32:18 is my FAVORITE part about this video.... just shows how deeply all this stuff is connected
Thank u that someone with a critical brain and that knows what they are talking about made a video! So annoying all those sensationalistic 'Dark Side of K-pop' posts. And a thing I wanna add is: I think K-pop fans, who have being pictured so fanatic and brain washed, discuss and admit to all the problems in the industry waaaay more than any western Pop fan I have EVER seen. Unless you are a pre teen that doesn't really know much, there is being ever a conversation about K-pop were we don't end up talking about companies, health, mental health, fat shaming, censorship, sexism and other problems in the industry and Korea? Honestly Pop fans don't even know or admit the hardships of their industry and countries, which is basically the same as K-pop like you said.
30:41 There _is_ a reason papa Seo Taiji basically adopted BTS
man do I want to throw this at all the people who have bullied me for liking kpop- i was legit told by someone that its “damaging the industry” when he listens to dub step,,, and i just sat there like..... what do you know when you dont even give it a chance or try and understand it and only know about it from biased people- I have lost many friends all because I like kpop- most of them began to isolate me a DAY after i started liking it,,, like bruh- also one of them literally asked me what instrument Jungkook plays- because apparently you cant be a band without instruments... and all I had to say was “hes a vocalist and helps come up with melodies”. lmao
Damn, Elliot... You outdid yourself with this one, lol.. Very interesting, super informative and need to be seen not only by ignorant westerners with a savior complex but some of k-pop fans as well.. Thank you! I really enjoyed it!
This is such an amazing video essay. I used to have negative perspective on kpop too, way back b4 2017 & I'm from Asia. But when I start to stan BTS, I learn more about Kpop & most of my views were wrong. I'm quite happy to know that I was wrong too coz now I get to enjoy musics from legends like Drunken Tiger & Epik High. (I'm surprise you didn't mention Drunken Tiger in this) Also gets to enjoy other fascinating artist like Dean, IU, Crush, Mamamoo & many more.
even K-Bands are becoming a lot more popular, some of them being former indie bands, and they usually are VERY involved in the songwriting process, if not solely. I'm pretty sure CyA from ONEWE (basically just talking about ONEWE because they're my favorite group in general) is credited on all but maybe four of their songs (including songs they released as M.A.S. 0094) with many of them being composition credits. He has a SoundCloud where he releases his own music (sometimes with friends) and one of those songs even became a ONEWE song. He also produced a ONEUS song and has a writing credit on a song from the drama The Miracle (I still wanna know how the heck that happened).
@Estela Lopez eh?
K pop is an amazing blend of all art forms including music, makeup, cinematography and even the artistic expression of the artist through paintings which can appear in MV’s and of course the lyrics of the songs
to be honest, when you talked about bts performing am i wrong on tv i actually paused the video and cried for a minute. i had no idea that they risked so much just to perform a song. it struck me how much care about their music, and even during intense political turmoil when they could be blacklisted by the government for performing, they do it anyway.
There's a lot a could say but the TL;DR is: most of the non-fans criticizing kpop honestly don't do it out of any real concern for those effected but just to shut the fans up. It's really hypocritical when they constantly go on about how nobody should like it because of xyz reasons and then continue to support/ignore other industries with the same/similar problems but it's okay because it's something they like. This is pretty clear to me because they'll always bring it up to fans even when there really isn't a reason to. You could off hand mention you like a song from any well recognized group and someone will feel the need to try and lecture you and give you a list of reasons you shouldn't like it because iTs SuPoRTinG a TeRiRblE inDuSTry but the reality is that you could make such arguments for literally ANY and EVERY entertainment industry--all of which, pretty much without exception, are corporate in nature. Even indie creators which many people think are free of some of the issues of big biz have lots of issues and problems which effect them and when many indie creators get more popular it's almost inevitable they may not continue being independent.
Also saying every artist/entertainer has to be able to do everything themselves otherwise they're not real performers is just...not that smart of a way of thinking. These are big productions and they require lots of people doing lots of different things. Plus, singers and dancers are good at singing and dancing--they're not necessarily going to be good at producing, writing, mixing, making up choreography (that's not even to get into all the other stuff that needs to be done like photo shoots, designing album covers, etc etc etc) and honestly WHEN WOULD MOST OF THEM HAVE THE TIME? But even so a lot of newer artists and groups are focusing on having creative control of at least some aspects because fans seem to really react well when they know members work a lot on their own songs, dances, and concepts.
Edit to Add: These sorts of critiques of the industry would also be more meaningful if it was presented as "every entertainment industry has serious issues and we all need to come together to support changes in them to help support and protect the artists and entertainers we all love and enjoy so much". But it's always, always targeted at "kpop" and almost always throws shade at normal fans for liking it than anything else.
I hate when people tell me about all the idols that have been treated badly
Like do you think I don’t know what I am spending my time doing
Of course I know of all the bad sides
All the idols that come out saying that they are sad
All “Kpop” fans try to improve the industry
Even things like “that member doesn’t have enough lines “
Or trying to prop more a group like the trending “ Stan loons “
We gat devastated by all the bad sides of this industry but we try our best
My fiance was talking about bts at work and how much I love them, and his coworker straight up said " don't they take kids and put them in slave camps to teach them how to be idols?" Straight faced, completely serious. I was blown away by the misinformation.
I refuse to believe that one music industry is manufactured but the other one isn't.
That was so well researched. I've learned so much about the Korean music industry. Can't wait for part 2!
Can I just say how much I appreciate you for doing this! The way you made this entertaining and educational at the same time!
I’m still more into BTS than other kpop groups, but I still like to learn and educate myself!
^^^6
I hope this video can blow up in the same way Cuck Philosphies did, because people need to see this!!
I have so many people that I want to send this video to
same, but they probably wouldn't even watch it if I sent it because that is how ignorant they are.
I’ve thought a lot about this recently so seeing your video really enforced and educated the thoughts I had. I will say I think a lot of the disgust that the west has with kpop comes a long with the western and non-west narrative. That for a long time anything non-western has been generalized as being in some way worse than western works. This applies to art work as well as music and has long affected what the west will accept as being mainstream.
Going to leave my comments before watching the video then come after when I'm done watching
Before: This isn't going to be very helpful if it ignores abuse that kpop artists themselves complain about. Yes "Western musicians" (a phrase just as deceptive as "Eastern music") have abusive systems as well, but that's not an argument to say the idol system isn't abusive. I'm Nigerian so I can just say both systems are a little scary. I mean you see the results and it often looks and sounds great but I hate to be worrying about if the men and women on stage have been struggling so hard to keep up with the pressures of looking good and presenting themselves as appealing and single.
After: okay, I've learnt a lot. Thank you for this video! So idol music, not kpop gotcha. In this case Kpop is just as useful a genre description as Pop in the U.S. (I mean Billie Eilish, Ariana and Post Malone are all oftenly - lol- considered pop, so what's the sound). Love learning more about BTS cuz I just got into them this year right before album release. I'll have to find out more.
I admit I had a heavily biased view of 'K-pop' as well, this video was very informative. I'll be sure to check out more Korean music now (I actually kind of like ballads more than the very popular
idol music). Hope this video blows up!
Lol I forgot I made this comment. I'm a huuuge fan of Taemin now. Jonghyun as well. SHINee is great too.
Slow clap from the back!!!
It’s a travesty that ALL of your video essays aren’t viral. I hope not only “k-pop” outsiders but also fans come and get educated.
You nice, keep going. 💜
exactly! its frustrating how people generalize & wont even put in effort to educate themselves on the stuff they shit on, everyone should watch this
this entire video was really great to watch, i hope it reaches a lot of people
how did you take the thoughts from my brain and put it into a super well organized video essay
wow finally someone who knows what they’re talking about, thanks for this and I’m excited to see part 2!
this is amazing. you can't sit down with a person and reference every K-pop video but we can show them this. thank you
- This is such a well thought out work! I had not come across the video you mentioned. I have to say this feels like an old TH-cam response video, alas couple of years later but perfectly executed!!
- You SAT essay must have been amazing!
- Also you are cute.
All these in no particular order.
You approached this difficult topic so well, I’m in awe. subscribed!
I love the fact that you talked about seventeen, they put so much effort on being a self produced idol group
I love a phrase they said one day "we are called self produced because we produce, we do not produce to be called self produced"
And like yes, they don't have all the credits of every song, like Bumzu (a solo artist from the same company) helps with the writing and producing just like Woozi helps him with his songs.
Or for the choreos, yes, the have choreographs who help them but that doesn't change the fact that they create a big part of the performances they are so known for.
So thank you for mentioning them.