It makes me lose my mind the amount of disdain and indifference people have to claudia when she was one of the best characters. The fandom accuses her of being the cause of all of the problems in louis and lestat's relationship. Lestat did nothing but tell her her existence was a mistake and mocked what happened with charlie and later on taunted her with her own assault by bruce. And somehow people still see her as someone that only wanted to get in the way of lestat and acted as if she didn't have all the reasons in the world to escape and k ill lestat
I think a lot of the people who dislike her are people who disliked her book version and can't help but see that in her character whenever she's on screen or in their thoughts. But...I could definitely be wrong.
@@jaginaiaelectrizs6341You're wrong. I've been in this fandom for decades. Claudia in the book was seen a a tragic victim especially since she was based of Anne Rice's late daughter. The five year white girl has never gotten the hate the 14 year old Black girl did.
The fandom is so rac1st, it is rotting their judgement. Louis is an abused victim, preyed upon by 2 "older" charismatic partners and I think, a lot of us survivors recognisd the pattern in season 1: - love bombing - seduction/manipulation - grooming - isolation - withholding of information - preying on uninformed consent - lying/cheating - double standards/coercion and finally - physical abuse
Also because of the time period, Louis can’t seek help without getting outed as gay and a vampire. Which (minus the supernatural elements) is a very real struggle for queer people in abusive relationships. And vampires and monsters in general are a stand in for any marginalized community but especially has strong LGBTQ ties.
@@olavihekandjo2928 When was Louis excused of anything? Just cause we’re acknowledging he’s an abuse victim doesn’t mean he can’t be criticized for his own misdeeds. That’s literally part of the video.
This fandom isn’t racist, new fans who’ve only seen the show talk about the franchise like they understand it, and call us racist for liking a character that existed before they were even born lmfao.
The thing about S1 Ep2 that always bugged me, and nobody ever talks about, is that after Louis' near-nephew-eating, Lestat presents him with matching tuxes and says, "I've been neglectful of our romance." But at the opera, instead of fixating on trying to soothe Louis' insult, Lestat spends the whole night lavishing his attention on another man...the tenor.
I mean.... he wasn't really lavishing _romantic_ attention on the tenor, though. He was lavishing murderous intent on the tenor. In a sense, you could perhaps see Lestat with the tenor as Lestat expending a really lavish effort on preparing dinner....for Louis. Just, unfortunately for Lestat, he spent a ton of effort preparing a meal that Louis hated / had absolutely zero interest in eating but was too polite or too afraid to refuse completely. You could perhaps say that maybe Lestat was trying to reassure Louis that eating people is totally okay and perfectly natural to them as vampires and not something that Louis should be in such a twist of shame over and does not make Louis any less desirable to Lestat[-and perhaps Lestat merely forgets or fails to see why human/biological family should be any different to a vampire than any other human is]. But it's all speculation, since Louis isn't privy to why Lestat did the things that Lestat does, we the audience have no idea why Lestat was actually doing it or not. We don't really know if Lestat's designs that evening were intentional and made around consideration of Louis and Lestat's own personal perceptions of what should/shouldn't resolve Louis' feelings of upset over almost eating that baby OR if Lestat was merely so touchy about the tenor's musical crimes that Lestat got caught up in the moment and forgot all about attending to Louis[ maybe because the tenor was an immediate concern that had to be addressed right then or maybe wouldn't be there at all tomorrow while Louis is a theoretically much more constant thing that hypothetically 'will still be there tomorrow' to get around to addressing finally afterward later on] or what. 😅😅🙃👀 For whatever that may or may not be worth.
@@jaginaiaelectrizs6341 I said that Lestat should have fixated on trying to "soothe Louis' insult" with pointed intent. As a romantic date, he chose a venue where his lover had to act as his servant. To reward such humiliating sacrifice, the only man in the room for Lestat should have been the only Black man in the room...But admittedly, your ruminations are more fun haha!
@@tdali8347 To be clear, I don't actually disagree with you....Lestat SHOULD have been paying more attention and sensitivity to Louis(Louis definitely should have been Lestat's only focus/priority/etcetera, for sure). I'm just also acknowledging that it could be possible that maybe that was[ in Lestat's own mind] Lestat's own strange way of actually trying to soothe Louis' insult, and he's just absolutely inhuman shite at it-kinda like a cat who "gifts" its human a dead bird. Loll
What gets me about this: the first time they meet he comments on how Louis’ skin is supposed to keep him out the door. He understands the racial dynamics. Yet Lestat goads Louis into going to an opera, where he has to stand and pretend to be his valet. Oh so romantic 😒
All of Louis’ major crimes are against Claudia and other Black women but for some reason Lestat and Armand fans try and pretend he was their abuser. Because we know people dgaf about Black women especially 😭
That's what I'm saying... Like they wanna talk about "Louis isn't a saint either!" "They are vampires they have different morals" but they never talk about Louis *actual* flaws and his mistreatment of his family members or Claudia. No, it's poor baby Lestat and poor baby Armand.
@@olavihekandjo2928No. most of Lestat’s abusive flaws were heavily shown THROUGH his dynamic with Louis (and Claudia as well). Louis’ poor traits were mainly highlighted in his external relationships. Examples: when he was a shit father to Claudia by choosing over and over again and when he was absolutely awful to his sister and her family (the latter could be traced back to his own wounds from his relationship with his mother and Lestat but he still was awful regardless).
@@pulse_rate Louis wasn't "Hateful or awful" to his own family out of nowhere, or really at all considering nothing was done out of malice. Guy got blamed for his brother's death, essentially disowned by his mother, over the span of maybe a couple days, and when he does show up, like a month and a half later (Pretty appropriate time to have her cool down), he's able to see into his mother's thoughts and that she doesn't like his "lifestyle" on top of singularly blaming him for not keeping contact, despite him even saying "It's a half mile both ways". The ONLY woman who is in his corner at this point is his sister, and that wanes the next time he comes around, and all but disappears after he loses control when bringing gifts to the twins, being barred from entering a house HE OWNS. The next two times he sees Grace, he's essentially getting shortchanged for the house with an attitude, and then sees her over his own tombstone. Louis isn't the instigator in any of these instances, unless him not coming around regularly is what you count as instigating. While Claudia was undoubtedly handled poorly, (By a "parent" who immediately jumps into the teenage years with no prior experience no less) acting like the most important women in his life aren't equally harming him or starting these altercations is ridiculous. Half a mile away, and NO ONE tries to reach out to him, despite being in his house? Hell, they have phones, and we the audience know he can't just go to every event they hold, so where exactly is he mistreating his sister or mother? Are we talking about him not giving them more things here or what? Can they not start holding parties in the evenings? Where are they meeting him halfway? When this "No one cares about black women" discourse comes up, we real quick to throw black women's actions under the rug, like ya'll don't have to try either. 90% of the reason he ended up with Lestat was because of his mother, and we see no one trying all that hard to actually stay connected despite him essentially being down the street. Not that hard to set up times to meet him during the day or drop by in the afternoon/evening. Despite being a vampire, even he can't be absent yet awful despite never instigating things.
i think its the abusive part of lestat that they can't stand. they were fine with lestat commiting murder but the moment s1 e5 hit I remember they had a tantrum saying it was bad writing for writing the domestic violence scene on twitter. I wish I was joking but a lot of them could not cope that this version of lestat who has all the sings of being capable of doing such a thing would do said thing. and I lowkey think that them arguing that there is no good person in the show (fuck cluadia's drag ig) is them coping with the fact that lestat committed DV.
Tbf, there are different groups of Lestat fans. There are Lestat fans that die-hard love him because he's awful, they know he can do wrong, and they like it when he does. But then there are Lestat fans that love him because they believe he can do no wrong that isn't somehow understandable if not entirely justified(and I think most of these are specifically fans of Book 2 who don't really separate between the books and the tv series at all and project stuff from the books onto everything they watch in the tv series).
@@rifa1673 these fans are literally acting like he didn’t isolate them for decades in the books all for the sake of “he knows more than they do and he must teach them”. He’s always been a abuser, him doing domestic abuse isn’t shocking
That said, I wholeheartedly believe that if you genuinely think that Lestat was at that trial willingly you are watching the episode with Lestat hate goggles on and not catching the details the episode is throwing at us lol But of course these are speculations based on the book, we'll see next season
If you mean to tell me Louis is capable enough to murder that entire coven, but LESTAT was forced by them to be in that trial, I am gonna scream 💀 but yeah, I haven’t read the books. I’m consuming the show as its own entity. Only feasible explanation is Armand could’ve forced him. But that’s the only thing I’m willing to accept lol.
@SaidByTy as u should!! They've changed so many things that the show IS its own entity, no idea what direction they'll take with some things, but I don't believe a thing armand de gaslighter says anymore lol
@@emilygalassi4210we don’t know yet if they’re going to adapt that yet though. They’ve changed certain parts from the books already so I’m curious as to what they’ll adapt from that too.
@sanaishere18 yeah I know, but there are clues imo! Like there's a whole shot of Lestat swaying on his feet staring at nothing with wide eyes (around the end of the trial, after Louis is brought off stage), and in this show everything is on purpose
THANK YOU! I am tired, as an avid book and show fan, of people who treat lestat with soft hands AS IF THE NARRATIVE HASN'T CHANGED COMPLETELY with louis and claudia in the show. Not to mention, he was THE VILLAIN in the first book. There are gradations to how "terrible" or "evil" each character is and Louis will NEVER be on the same level/tier as Lestat is. The way people want to completely refute that Louis was ABUSED by Lestat is crazy.
There are still people in the comments who can’t separate the show from the books. I’ve received a few “you don’t understand/know him” statements from that crowd over the past couple days. It’s so bizarre how they want to use the books to make that claim as if the show isn’t an almost entirely new thing.
this fandom is such an unsafe place for black domestic abuse survivors i genuinely can’t even interact with them anymore LOL. BUT I LOVED YOUR VIDEO!!!!! purely you for my iwtv fandom content
@@justkidding69every fandom is a community so everyone should be welcome (unless they harm someone) thats not too much to ask so what id your deal here
I like Lestat (genuinely, enjoy him a lot) but this video is SO needed. It's so annoying how every time I watch a react channel watch this show and say that Lestat is an abuser, the comment section is just full of people being like "No, you don't understand," "Remember it's an unreliable narrator," "Wait til you get to season 2 before you form judgement." Like, first of all, can you PLEASE climb off Lestat's lap long enough to let people react how they're going to react?? The show clarifies the unreliable narrator stuff; you don't have to ruin the incredible storytelling for other people by getting ahead of it because you can't stand to hear someone have a bad opinion about your white fav for one second while he's literally got his fingers in a black man's neck. And second of all, this assumption people have that Lestat's accounts are going to clear up what really happened are so gross to me. First of all, because the only accounts called into question by Lestat's testimony are *Claudia's* accounts, or her changing and the fight. The only time Lestat contradicts something *Louis* said was his account of being chased instead of being the one chased, and in that case LESTAT WAS LYING. The trial was explicitly skewed to make Louis look bad, and Lestans are still pointing to it like, "See?! 🥺" Genuinely unsavory behavior. They were on pins and needles waiting to invalidate Louis' experience. And again, I like Lestat a lot. But people's inability to sit still and let someone talk about the many wrongs he committed is a lot like people's inability to let anyone talk about Loumand without bringing up Armandaniel- deeply annoying after a while.
I’ve had a few “you don’t understand” comments for this video. No one, so far, has been able to articulate what exactly I’m missing within the realm of the show at this point 🤷🏾♂️ mostly they use the books as a crutch, as if the show and the books are interchangeable. I guess when you’re so desperate to defend a character you do what you gotta do, but it’s meaningless. The stories are different. I have also noticed that many of them believe season 3 will be the one to clear his name in a sense. Would really hate it for them if the narrative for that season is flipped on its head as well 🤭
@@SaidByTy LOL, I'm looking at Season 3 Lestat like, "Daniel, get him! Get him, Daniel!" (But also a little bit looking at Daniel like, "Lestat, get him!" because I think it'll be funny.)
I am on the beginning of the video and have thoughts but I need to comment about the "Lestan's" name. It cracked me up!!!! That was supposed be his named but Anne made a typo 😅😂
21:12 this is the shit abusive parents say about their kids that have cut contact with them after years of mistreatment. The ones who call boundaries “abuse” “After all I did for you, you’re so ungrateful” “No respect for your elders” “All I get in return is disrespect and abandonment” Just need the classic “I did the best I could” to call bingo But truely, early Lestat and Louis remind me of my parent’s abusive dynamic: the narcissistic addict and the enabling codependent. A classic dynamic
I took the two seasons acted as different perspective of the same time. Luis is not a reliable narrator. But neither is lastat. Hopefully season 3 has more .
Fair point. I do wish we knew who exactly to believe completely. I guess the different perspectives adds to what makes the show so great lol. But at the same time I find it hard to believe that Louis could distort every part of entire narration of his time with Lestat. There’s also Claudia’s diaries that may back up some of Louis’ perspective.
Lestat himself said he's sorry for "breaking" Louis. So even if Louis has a biased view of what happened (because of trauma and guilt) I don't think he lied but yeah, we'll see in season 3
@lovelybrown9081 Oh I agree I think she cares but not that much which is what makes all his issues worse. I also think a lot of her love comes from her projecting who she wants to be onto him.
Nothing in the world can convince me that Lestat did not get Louie’s brother to end himself. I truly believe that Lestat wanted Louie and knew that he had to separate him from his family in order to get him. Smh.
People that don’t see that Lestat was an abuser have to live so far inside a bubble it’s ridiculous. He shows all of the signs of a narcissistic abuser and it’s not like it doesn’t hit you over the head with it. He intentionally went after a man at his most vulnerable and isolated him from his family all while lovebombing the shit out of him. It also makes the power imbalance very clear. The willful ignorance is just ugh. You’d have to have lived a very blessed life and very low empathy to not realize that
@l.josino i do not know what the show itself is going to do (but with the cast talking about how we should "notice" things in the trial) it will go with the book justification
Lestat is the villain, whom Louis uses to absolve himself of his own selfish actions. Lestat, when he takes center stage of the story, is the unreliable narrator, wanting us to understand his own justifications for his own actions, painting himself as a hero and victim.
Yes, typical narcissistic behavior (painting yourself as superior to everyone AND AT THE SAME TIME the poor victim everyone hurts and wrongs). Peak cognitive dissonance, in the fandom as well. Lestats actor is very irresponsible for reinforcing that Lestat truly loves Louis. By which definition of love?? This is so irritating to hear this from an adult. Lestat is justified in abusing people because he has feelings? So did Ted Bundy. Everyone has some range of feelings. We are all responsible for regulating our feelings so we don’t harm others. Or he is excused because he’s charming? So was Ted Bundy. Actually Id rather compare Lestat to Jeffrey Dahmer, the gay serial killer who preyed on black communities because the cops wouldn’t look after them so hard when they went missing. The way he hunts Louis in the beginning is eerily similar. And not just Lestats actor, but the show itself seemed on Lestats side at the end of season 2, with Daniel being so excited (already out of character for him isn’t it) that Lestat saved Louis and Armand is so baad, which makes no sense because Daniel so far was annoyed by the relationship drama and his goal was to survive, which is unlikely if he pisses Armand off, so why purposefully piss Armand off? And if Lestat saved Louis, so what? He saved him after lifetimes of abusing him and then retraumatizing him with the „trial“ and then „saving him“ aka just not murdering him. Thats the lowest standard ever oh wow my partner tortured but didn’t murder me. Bro! This is so far beyond reason, I am completely disoriented. And Louis runs to Lestat to hug and cuddle him, for just abusing him, but hey, not killing him? What? Lestat clearly couldve chosen to save their daughter but picked Louis and Louis is just fine with that, which shows he never ever was close to being a father to Claudia. No father would be okay with that. And then they have the nerve to cry about her as if they didn’t kill her on purpose. Yeah Louis killed her too by not getting her to a hospital and instead literally killing her, then by staying with Lestat when he turned against her and risking her death 24/7, then by not killing Lestat who would obviously survive and kill Claudia, and also by provoking the coven with all the peace in the world while putting all the responsibility on her to hide their lies. I guess he was too busy being a fboy to Armand. Accountability ain’t your strong suit Louis. Louis also tells Armand that he is nothing but a child SA victim. Which is a never to come back from horrible thing to say to someone. And Armand replies by calling Louis out for his own child abuse (my daughter was my sister was my throwpillow), which Louis is directly morally responsible for (counter to Louis rubbing something in Armands face that he had no control over), and that doesn’t even mention him pimping homeless black girls out. But apparently everyone can be forgiven except Armand. Armand is the scapegoat for everything. So he had the choice to die or do the play. Why is he expected to kill himself for a fboy? Most people would not do that when held at gunpoint and that is called selfpreservation. Lestat is obviously the one who wanted this stage play, who wanted more violence, wanted to torture Louis, while Armand was just the tool. And Armand of course made mistakes too, but his wrongdoings are so tertiary compared to Lestat and Louis. Louis also only cares about racism and injustice when it happens to HIM and crosses his ego business plans. Black girls can get pimped out. His black daughter can put up with abuse and be quiet and smile. The black community of his town can do his own thing whatever, as long as he has his Claudia pet and his pimp money, all is well and just in his world. He is a study in corruption. The vampirism is a great metaphor for it.
@ thank you for reading my monologue 😅❤️❤️ Does anyone know stories where immortals do something for human rights, just a little bit? Im confused why I cant find that, would love to read about it
Originally subscribed for the reaction videos, I had no idea you also do video essays! What a treat! I have some ounce of sympathy for Lestat (especially during the renuinion) but unfortunately for the apologists, I still hold the opinion that he's a terribly toxic person. Toxic people are capable of love, yes, but it doesn't erase them of being toxic towards the people they claim to love.
if lestat has 10 haters i am one. if lestat has one hater it's me. if lestat has no haters i am dead. if the world is with lestat i am against the world
The genuine brain rot and denial you have to possess to NOT SEE that Lestat is a villainous character is insane. I love his character, but to say that he is not the problem and highly abusive is wild. I avoid this fandom tbh because I was afraid of what the common fan feelings were, and I’m glad I did. Claudia was the GOAT and her death makes me sob every-time.
The only reason I know the sentiments of this fandom is because I went out of my way to look for them for the sake of this video. You are right to stay away.
I think labeling Lestat to be the villain is simplifying him. I will have to bring atleast the first two books in the discourse to give context, because show Lestat's characterization comes from mostly the second book. (the events of what would be s3 for the show, that we obviously haven't seen yet) I personally think a lot of the discourse comes from the fact that show turned up on his villainous traits, while also giving us early some of his later, more sympathetic ones, but it gets very muddy because what we see him do in the first season is unjustifiable, and Lestat himself admits that in the trial. So the way the show frames its characters' actions isn't that morality isn't a thing, of course it is-because the first season leads you to cheer on Louis and Claudia to kill Lestat. But the show is very much character-driven, and what it wants you to do is explore and find cracks into what makes these characters tick, why they are who they are to show you they aren't wholly evil and wholly good. A great example of this is Louis, Louis is our most fleshed out character as of the end of season two, we know his background, his trauma, his love-life, his grief and suicidal ideation, he's a deeply hypocritical character with his own manipulative tendencies, but he's also a deeply loving and forgiving person. We don't have enough on Lestat to label him with that level of detail, but narratively speaking as of the two seasons right now, the show wants you to be conflicted and think there's something deeper going on with him that we haven't seen yet. That's very much highlighted in the reunion, where he's weepy and very pathetic and expressing grief and regret, which is very much the show setting up an exploration of that. Hell, the show even gives Armand sympathy, and he's the one who wrote and directed the trial. I've honestly had my own conflicts on the how the show presented Lestat, as most of his longtime fans have, but the show's writing (and Sam's acting) haven't let me down yet so i'm looking forward to see how they tackle next season. The problem with trying to find an overarching antagonist for the whole show is that IWTV is very much gothic fiction, and it thrives on being fucked up and getting you conflicted about it. While characters may take an antagonistic role, none of them are the final bad guy with no redeeming traits, because that simply isn't what IWTV as a show is interested in doing. Do I think Lestat is a good guy? Absolutely not, I wouldn't say he is even if I was only speaking on book knowledge. So is he a villain? There's a less straightforward answer to that, Lestat is an anti-hero. And if i'm not mistaken, that's what he has been labeled has for more than 30 years, and that continues to be true for the show.
Thank you for taking the time to gracefully contribute to the conversation. I will say, there is a reason I pointed out that no matter what he went through, nothing he did to Louis will be justified (as you also say here). I’m holding out on the possibility that there’s something more concerning the trial, but until then, I’ll stick with the opinion that his actions were also unjustifiable in that scenario. I would also like to say there’s a reason I pointed out that there’s levels to all this, and mentioned Louis’ transgressions throughout the video as well. The problem is Louis’ biggest sins are being hypocritical, a pick-me (I say facetiously), and a bad father figure. In comparison, Lestat’s worse sins are dropping Louis from 1000+ feet in the air and participating in Claudia’s death. It’s almost absurd to view the actions of the two and say “See? They’ve both done bad things.” To me, their individual transgressions are incomparable. One’s actions are clearly a lot more villainous than the other’s. On your point that it is a gothic story-that is understood. Yes, we should expect darkness. But that doesn’t mean we can’t dislike characters for their dark actions while still enjoying a dark show. And while, yes, the show itself may not be interested in finding an overall bad guy-it is up to viewer discretion to contextualize the show in a way that makes sense to them. I can’t remember the exact context, but I was discussing the show with someone and they said “Anne Rice herself said blah blah blah” in defense of Lestat. My response was, “I don’t care what Anne Rice said. I’m my own person with my own opinions.” Once the art is put out there, it no longer just belongs to the artist. It is left to the audience for interpretation. So I can see why people would say Lestat is an antihero. But to me, he’s a villain. One doesn’t have to be a cartoony, mustache twirling character with no depth to be the villain. I can fully acknowledge his background, some of the “good” he’s done, understand that he’s been through a lot, and STILL call him the villain. Because any GOOD villain has understandable motivations behind their actions. I can understand that he’s a broken soul, and because of that he broke Louis (literally). But I can still see him as the villain for it.
Lestat did not participate in Claudia's death, he was partially responsible (as much as Louis), but he was not there to condemn her. There are lots of scenes that show this and he even said he should be on trial as well for what he's done. We can definitely discuss after S3 revisits this, but Louis going to Lestat after everything is the biggest confirmation for me. @@SaidByTy
@ No, Louis was not AS responsible as Lestat for her death. Lestat was much more responsible for it, as far as we know at this point, by simply being a part of the production and rehearsing it in secret when he knew the end goal was to kill Louis and Claudia. He could have warned them; instead he was a participant and told lie after lie on stage. I don’t even know how you can twist that.
@@SaidByTy that is my point, there are clues in the episode that Lestat's goal by being at the trial wasn't to get Claudia killed. The trial was a play, the outcome was decided and it didn't matter whether he was there or not unfortunately. There are scenes showing bruises on his wrists, shows him swaying on stage, shows him sleeping in his chair, standing like a marionette with one leg in the air, but I only caught them on rewatch. So I think he was there to try and influence the outcome in favour of Claudia and Louis but he was controlled by the coven during the majority of the time. The little scene of the rehearsal also shows him defending Claudia and lashing out at Armand. He did love her, he didn't want her to die, but we will know the full story next season. I don't want to get into too much detail, since it's a youtube comment, but there are some posts with gifs etc. if you're interested. Editing to add, I rewatched episode 7 several times, because Sam Reid has said in interviews that he did leave clues in his performance about this. So it's not a fan conspiracy theory. Both Lestat and Louis are guilty due to neglect that she ended up the victim. They did not do enough to protect her, and even her creation was a selfish act. It's a tragic story but even more so because they actually did love her. They just failed her. Like she said, she's just a roof shingle that flew off of [their] house during their stormy romance. They were both always putting themselves or each other before her, and in the end, this was what made her vulnerable to the coven's manipulations and also Louis to an extent put her in the position to be "an obstacle" to his and Armand's relationship (when in fact, he was just pining after Lestat). He did not defend her, he did not believe her at the end.
@@tsp1850I like your well-rounded and evidence-based comment. While I’m not a Lestat fan by any means, I do remember him appearing injured and under the influence of something during part of the trial. That said, I’m curious to know how the coven could’ve possibly overpowered him because like the video creator said, Louis was able to kill most of them and Lestat is undoubtedly much stronger than he is. Perhaps we’ll get to know in Season 3. One thing we can agree on is that Claudia is a severe victim of their terrible actions. However, I’m still inclined to believe that Lestat was much worse than Louis in terms of abuse and neglect because of Claudia’s journal entries that may back up some of Louis’ perspective and the fact that she was willing to brutally kill Lestat and run off with only Louis. Another thing I don’t buy is Lestat feeling very regretful about Claudia’s killing. From what we saw he barely showed any affection to her and was extremely abusive. That still doesn’t make much sense to me. Regardless I’m excited for Season 3 to show us more.
I can't find the comment I read under here and I REALLY don't want to get into this whole discourse (purely because it's a bit repetitive and tiring once you've seen it all for 2 years) but about Louis "being able to destroy the coven" while Lestat seemingly couldn't (which means he wasn't 'forced' to do the trial), I find this argument faulty for several reasons: - Louis was capable of ambushing them while they were *asleep* . He tells Daniel in 2.08 that when a vampire is asleep, he's all but dead to the world and somewhat incapable of even intercepting what may be going on outside his coffin. I'm pretty sure this is why all of Louis, Lestat and Claudia's coffins in the house in New Orleans were hidden behind secret doors, too. - This brings me to my next point which is that Louis's whole ambushing plan was something he made for several days while he was manic and hallucinating people.... he was practically suicidal by that point and even says "I was going down, and taking as many of them with me as I could". Keep in mind, none of the coven members who survived the first ambush thought it was him (Celeste and Estelle, the ones who were on motorbikes, thought it was another coven that ambushed them). This is because to their knowledge, Louis was still stuck in their cellar either slowly starving to death or having already died. They didn't expect for Armand to have possibly switched the body in the morgue and the time between Armand doing that and then the ambush was a couple of days, so nobody noticed it. - Lestat's return to Paris on the other hand was already expected by the coven before the trial because they were the ones who called out for him to come, so I don't think he could've ambushed them even if he tried before or after the trial (the after part is another story, but I digress). I don't know what happened during that time with Lestat, whether he tried to reach Louis or Claudia or just stayed put until the trial was going on, but I think the show deliberately left that part out because only Armand would've known the truth of that in Dubai, and he didn't like Daniel revealing even part of it during the interview. My guess is that we are meant to believe Lestat was never onboard with this trial in the first place (and I mean this specifically because of the 2.08 scene where he argues back with Armand during the rehearsals), but the details of all of that are left blank, possibly for time-related constraints but also to have a thread hanging for further seasons.
It honestly confuses me how people fail to recognize that Anne Rice’s vampires are monsters and that includes their emotionally abusive, detached and domineering nature. I LOOOOOOVE Lestat as a character but he’s a monster. He turned Louis into a monster so he wouldn’t be alone anymore. He turned Claudia into a monster even though he knew better than Louis ever could how awful that would be for her. Sure he has trauma and reasons and waaahhhh but to act like he isn’t a monster is bonkers. Just admit he’s a bad man with a weak heart and revel in how complex that is. The need for a character you like to be morally defendable is a trend these days that utterly confuses me lol let that man be a bad man! You can still like him!
The thing I DESPISE the most about Lestat defenders is they seem to heavily lean on the book as if it explains everything when we are clearly watching a show, a show that has already taken several liberties with the text. They are just as much in the dark as none book readers because the writers have previously changed things to fit the story they want to tell. So there is no point in getting on the internet and writing paragraphs about how Lestat didn't actually want to participate in the sham trial that condemned Claudia to death. You have no idea how the writers are gonna present thing and yall may just end up extremely WRONG and embarrassed. For instance, between Season 1 and Season 2, there were Lestat apologist arguing that Lestat never dropped Louis out of the sky, that it was all a mind manipulation from Armand, etc. They used all that energy for Lestat defense only for him to basically confirm he dropped Louis out of the sky and that he wanted to punish Louis for not loving him they way HE wanted. So why even jump the gun. Its best to just wait.
It's a show based on books, and thus far, has remained faithful, at least in substance. If Lestat's substance remains consistent between books and show, I promise you're misjudging him. IwtV was Louis' skewed, bitter perspective. And Louis, though I love him, is a whiny, broody, self righteous, myopic little bitch. Also, dropping Louis from the sky may not have been in the books, but if the person I loved more than anything and gave everything I possibly could to even against my better judgement said the things to me that he said to Lestat, and I was even half as powerful as Lestat, I'd be tempted to drop that mfer from the sky, too. Thankfully, we're gonna see things from Lestat's perspective in season 3.
lestat stan came for me for saying louis was not problematic for hitting lestat first since louis was the victim and I kid you not one of them said louis was abusive towards lestat. mind you they use the trail as evidence you know the same trail where lestat was acting and literally lied about louis seducing him, and the same trail where he dropped the act and admitted to breaking louis because he couldn't have him? do i belive louis snapped and hit him first and told him how he was going to leave? yes but do i think louis who is an abuse victim had the right to fight his abuser back when said abuser put his hands on their kid? absolutely. i do think that the way people are die hard defenders of lestat has a racial aspect to it especially the ones that say louis was in the wrong and basically think the trail version of louis and lestat's relationship is what went down.
How do u know Louis didn’t seduce him all u hear is Louis perspective which is going to be bias as already shown he paints himself in a favourable light. Louis is abusive we see him being physically abusive to Claudia and lestat and his brother . As well as emotionally abusive to lestat and armand. He is abusive to say otherwise is a lie this obviously doesn’t change the fact that lestat is also abusive so is armand . The book also shows how manipulative Claudia was I won’t get into the books as it may spoil but there is a lot that isn’t said a lot that doesn’t make sense in the series too u have to rewatch and pay attention. Overall Louis is the main victim clearly.
@ you kinda contradicted yourself at the end. but i will say i do think louis would’ve admitted to seducing lestat if he did that because he owned up to him being part of claudias suffering and abuse. as for your mutual abusive arguement thats not a thing because their abuse stems from the power imbalance, lestat from had more power in that relationship than louis did. he also emotionally and verbally abused louis via the cheating and degrading him when he was missing claudia. louis snapping at lestat isn’t abuse because it a case of a victim fighting back. the mutual abuse only benefits the abuser because it makes it seem like they are equally bad when in reality the abuser aka the one with more power in the relationship does way more damage than the victim fighting back and for a longer time too. again since you do recognize that louis is the victim for you to say he abused lestat is falling into the mutually abusive narrative thats used to discredit the victims suffering. not to be that person but you’re essentially doing to louis what j*hny d*pp did to amber heard.
@IvyJames-ru4vj for some reason you weren’t tagging in my longer reply so this is letting you know i responded with why i think louis didn’t seduce lestat
I'm interested to see how the show is going to manage the tone shift between the first book and the rest of the series without ignoring the severity of the abuse he put claudia and louis through. I really hope louis and lestat re-examine their relationship in season 3 and either find a way to address it (or don't but make it clear just how wrong it is). I would also like for more of the racial undertones of their relationship from season 1 to come back as I would like to see lestat facing his role in that aspect of the events.
@@cornpopisabaddude I also really hope you’re wrong. I would actually love it if they tied the concept of unreliable memory into it and made Louis remember at some point. I feel like lestat might improve as a character, especially after the wake up call that was the murder and the trial, but even then that doesn’t lay the groundwork for a healthy relationship.
your comment section is a perfect example of how them lestat stannies will victim blame louis & claudia instead of accepting their fave is horrible and abusive🤷🤷🤷
Excellent video!.. I wonder if Lestat apologists would have the same views if Louis and Claudia were portrayed as white. Would they still treat Lestat as a victim or the narcissist he actually is?
Omg i love this video lol. I dont necessarily hate lestat, i love what he represents in terms of the cycle of abuse and toxic (queer) masculinity but my god his apologists drive me insane.
Friend, idgaf about these people being mad lmao. I was prepared for this-I WANT the smoke. And the kicker is not one of them have proved me wrong yet. Just a bunch of people who didn’t watch the video in its entirety OR fail to actually comprehend what was said. It’s the most obvious when I get called an “Armand supporter.” That lot has worms for brains lmao.
Armand is just selfish, he took lestats lover at the sight of his freedom because he couldn’t have it and he was ok with killing Claudia cause he wanted Louis for himself. Louis liking Daniel and calling him boring sent him to the point when he tortured Daniel almost to death then washed both him and Louis memories. Nothing he does is justified if he did it all for himself 🤷🏾♀️ he didn’t love Louis he wanted lestats and his freedom and when he couldn’t have that he kept going through people until eventually Louis came, Even at the point were Daniel exposed everything he still tried to keep up the lie because Louis was going to leave him
@ when did I say lestat wasn’t?im talking about Armand and him only 🤔 why can’t you have a conversation about Armand without comparing him to lestat You seem like an Armand apologist
@@gibbei Cause that’s the entire point of the video. I literally say in my video that Armand is more justified in his actions than Lestat, and you’re claiming nothing he does is justified. That’s a direct contradiction to the entire point I’m making. Duh. Plus you’re arguing with me on another thread where someone was defending Lestat, so it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know you’re a Lestat apologist-so why wouldn’t I bring him up when you’re obviously defending him without openly saying it? The point is is to compare their individual actions within the given contexts. Wanting me to not include Lestat in that conversation is lazy and redundant. But fine. Armand is terrible. I said as much in the video already. Now what?
@ when did I argue about lestat?I was talking about you taking in the creators own opinion saying it doesn’t matter. You use that rocket science phrase a lot when I can tell you don’t know what youre talking about, the entire point of my comment was how he wasn’t justified instead of hearing that point you bring up lestat🤔 but can’t argue against the fact that everything I said was true
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS. youre the only one with a brain FR. i'm not even a lestat hater and i love media with dark, complicated and toxic characters and dynamics. and yet seeing all the defense around Lestat and all that bullsht from his fans was seriously making me keep a kind of rage inside my heart for them and for this fandom that was consuming my love for this show from the inside out.
I accidently stumbled on this video. Just wanna say that I full agree and side with you brother. All your points are very well made and understandable. The thing that was bothering me the most was that how quickly all were so willing to change their mind regarding Louis's POV and trust Lestat like that after ep 7. Like they were waiting for this moment to "gotcha" Louis as the abuser and manipulator and prove Lestat's innocence. For all this discussion of "unreliable narrator" Lestat fans are so willing to listen to anything that comes out of his mouth even if it was from an orchestrated play and refusing to give Louis and Claudia even a little bit of the benefit of the doubt. This is why I hate/scared of these vampire shows's fandom because as with most vampire shows the main lead is a white man played by a charismatic and conventionally attractive actor, so whatever horrible thing they do their fandom brushes it off or ignores it or make excuses by saying "oh they have so much trauma in their backstory" , "oh u just misunderstand him" , "This is gothic romance u don't get it" , "All three are equally bad". God the Infantilization and Romanticization of Lestat is too much. I have seen this same thing happen in multiple vampire shows fandoms. In IWTV u and Olay ma'am are the ones i see calling Lestat the vile white man abuser he is, most are still two siding this dynamic. I am not a Louis defender i hate him for what he done to Claudia but as you said there are levels. Louis is the victim of Lestat. Claudia is the victim of Louis and Lestat mainly and all the other men.
As a fan of the books, movie and show, I understand that everyone in this show is messy and toxic to varying degrees. So, I sit back and enjoy the mess and can't wait to see the real Brat Prince in all his glory instead of being painted through another lens lol. All this arguing and name calling these other folks are doing to you is wild af
Thank you for this 🙏🏿 this is soooo cathartic, people talking about Louis like he’s just as bad as Lestat and Armand makes me feel like I’m being gaslit. While he has his flaws and the show operates in shades of grey, Louis was ultimately the VICTIM in both of his romantic relationships. It baffles me how people don’t see how skewed the power dynamic is. ALSO Claudia deserved so much better- her metaphor about being a shackle on their roof comes to mind. It’s no surprise at all that the only people that see Louis and Claudia clearly are other black people.
I really struggle to engage with the text in this way they're all complex beautiful characters. I'm kinda reminded of a scene from Angle (another show about vampires) Spike and Angle are talking about a girl that was abused and murdered innocent people. Spike: "she's a monster now." Angle: "she's an innocent victim." Spike: "So were we, once." that's the tragedy of vampires.
Just one small point, the first two seasons are Louis's story, this is Lestat through Louis's eyes, not the man himself. If you're asking, but what about Armand, Armand is not exactly trust worthy, you'll see.
What about Claudia and her diaries? We get some of her perspective too, which supports a great deal of Louis’ narration. I do look forward to watching S3 to know more regardless.
what people talking about the books need to realize is that the TV show changes so much about the setting and louis that the fundamentals of their relationship can not possibly allow louis to be the abuser of lestat. louis is a closeted black man in new orleans. that should say enough but there is no world in which the man who comes from france, pretends to not understand the racial dynamics in america but uses them against louis when he can, turns louis into his companion by promising him eternity by his side (having deliberately KILLED his support system so he has no one else to turn to) then cheats on him multiple times, withholds information from louis as he pleases, THAT lestat is the victim. there is no such thing as "mutual abuse" when the victim fights back against their abuser. idgaf what louis does to lestat after that. if you don't agree, then i would ask what justifies lestat's abuse against claudia? was claudia also lestat's abuser? its mind boggling that people don't see the very obvious patterns/behaviors of being an abuse victim in louis but think lestat, the king of murdering daughters, ruining lives, lying, cheating, and having bad bobs in every century he has been alive is the victim.
Lestat, ultimately has become a character I enjoyed much more before interacting with analysis in fandom spaces. Like I loved to hate him in the first season (still try to), while clearly seeing his role as an abuser. He's fun, charismatic and Sam Reid is phenomenal and still I was more interested in Louis and Claudia's tale but I get that that's subjective. I think the most annoying thing hardcore Lestat apologists do is to simply refuse to accept that the show is a completely different medium from the books. While yes, it's an adaption, the fact that Louis and Claudia are black is like. integral to it and imo an aspect you cannot keep out of conversations. Like the fucking show makes several points of it and somehow it frequently gets ignored. Lestat had the most power in the family, point blank. Sure, Louis had emotional power over him but like Lestat had the one of material, race, age and knowledge. Then the "Louis is an unreliable narrator." God I hate this talking point. Unreliable literally doesn't mean lying all the time and I'd argue that even the show itself is more driving on the "memory is a monster" and "the odyssey of recollection" track than "Louis is trying to paint himself in a good light at ALL times." The worst instance of that is the "episode 7 recontextualizes the fight and makes Louis an abuser???" when all it does is show Louis as an imperfect victim and hammers the point in that Claudia was indeed a bandaid. Also I am so tired of the Armand vs Lestat fights because these often ignore the literal context of Armand's situation. Like whenever these two get compared - Lestat was an independent, rich, white man who literally came to start a new life. Armand (who's like. not white either I feel like this also gets ignored often??) was a part of a 200 year old slightly cultish coven with strict rules and responsibilities that forced him to act (or like not act lmao bc he's a coward who just tries to desperately hold on to the status quo. Tho I will say his role gets over exaggerated people are NOT willing to discuss the whole mutiny plot + Santiago's actions which clearly had racist undertones as well) I like Lestat character analysis and I love the show, I just wish when we are seriously discussing it there was more willingness to not mindlessly defend the guy. I also wish the show would have done one or more things differently like maybe show subtle signs of abuse or like. do the whole s2 Loustat reunion differently bc that's actually the one thing i didn't enjoy bc it felt so disconnected to seeing him watch Claudia die on episode prior?? Well this became an essay lmao I'm sorry for yapping, I can only say I think this show is an incredible work of tv and I hope it keeps the standard up. I enjoyed your video very much I WILL keep watching 🙏
To say this in the absolute least spoiler way possible.... the reasons why book fans are quick to defend Lestat is kinda similar to why someone might defend Louis for killing the alderman in such a viciously slow and brutal manner(because the alderman was a racist arsehole)-Louis might say that Lestat killed someone for absolutely zero reason or for some not-justifiable reason[ because Louis can't read Lestat's mind and doesn't actually know why Lestat does anything or not and can often assume or deduce 'why' incorrectly] but Lestat will say that he had reasons or was completely justifiably provoked[ simply unbeknownst to Louis], and so on. Even though we haven't seen yet whether or not the tv series will do the same, book readers either presume or intensely hope the tv series is going to. But you're not wrong, until we actually see future seasons, it's currently impossible to really debate/discuss whether or not tv!Lestat is actually remotely defensible at all or not-and even in the books, different readers can have very different opinions about just how sympathetic or understandable or justified Lestat's reasons/actions actually are or not and why/why-not. Unfortunately, some people do seem to think everything is as simple as just saying that everything is totally okay and forgiven so long as he was hit or insulted or having a rough time or in a somehow vulnerable place first.....and that is a real shame and disservice to the writing/story/characters/etcetera of both the books and the tv show, I think.
I hear your point but people who also come for Lestat may be judging the show as its own entity. The show obviously took a LOT of creative liberties so it’s fair to distinguish book Lestat from TV Lestat. The fans also tend to perform some crazy mental gymnastics to make these excuses for ONLY Lestat while people who lean towards Louis (like me) are still very willing to call him out for his own bullshit. I do look forward to season 3 regardless.
@@pulse_rate Don't get me wrong, I wasn't trying to say that people weren't fully entitled to come after Lestat. I am well aware that many people have either never read the books or think of the tv series as a separate thing completely. I think that is all totally fine. I was just saying that a lot of the people who defend him AREN'T people who have only seen the tv series, and aren't people who see the two versions as completely distinct/separate things, so it's not really the TV version of him by itself that they are defending-and it actually does make a little more sense for them to defend the book version of him(especially depending on which books exactly they have or haven't read) than it makes to defend him just from his tv series version alone thus far. Especially when you consider that he is the POV protagonist for a majority of those books, and fictional Main Characters are often specifically designed to make the audience understand and sympathize with or root for that character typically above any other character so that the audience will stay invested in the story from start to finish and actually want the MC to survive or whatever in the end. Not to mention the way that people can be biased just by familiarity alone, or just by whichever character they spend the most time reading and get to know the most in-depth or whatnot. (But like I said-yes, unfortunately, there are some that take it too far sometimes and justify things that aren't even meant to be justified or such. I was just saying, I don't think the mental gymnastics are always as crazy through that lens as they can seem to be from outside that lens. Even though, yes, sometimes they really just are that crazy; I've been side-eyeing the craziest ones for decades by now, and that's not even being hyperbolic, I mean that quite literally. I just meant that not every Lestat defender is necessarily always automatically one of those just because they are a Lestat defender at all, and that was all. 🙂 Lol)
Before even clicking this video I thought to myself 'I imagine they dont take much issue with Armand' and without fail you dont and that's why I cant take Lestat 'haters' who think explaining his decisions = justifying it, seriously. Whelp as Jacob and Sam have already established they are it for each other and endgame and are monsters who do evil shit so I will have fun in the future watching their romance as they battle with the nature of their existence but idk that you will.
Hmmm, the fact that I actually call Armand disgusting doesn’t matter then? You types are quite selective. Also idgaf what the actors say lmao. I’m an adult who thinks for myself. Can you relate?
Actually to add onto this, since you guys want to act obtuse and annoying, Sam also said that this is ultimately a story about being a better monster. Ergo, Lestats abusive behavior has legitimate consequences on his relationships and who he is as a character. His arc is about being a better vampire lover to Louis.
Looking at Louis is something to behold. He is incredibly beautiful!! A smile that will make your heart burst!!!❤❤❤ I understand Lestat's love for Louis. 😍
I like Lestat's POV in the books, but even there the character is impossible and borderline unlikeable to me. But the AMC version made this mf worse. I think they went a bit off character too. Book Lestat is impossible because he is selfish and impulsive. He does things, often abusive things, because he's curious or because he wants it. He wants to turn people into vampires, try being human again, become a rockstar, reveal every secret because he's excited and enjoying it (Which arguably makes the character worse. Even Louis gets shocked by how he seems to play with his victims.). His laughing fits are a reocurring character trait. But the AMC Lestat constantly has a face like he smelled shit. He's doing things out of disdain, like killing that tenor because he didn't sing well enough for him. Book Lestat wouldn't do that. He always has something positive to say about humans, or he is neutral about them. He's open minded, humourous, dramatic and often cheerful in an unhinged way, but not arrogant, scornful or condescending like the AMC version made him to be. In the books, his excitement and curiosity for new things both drive him towards his maniac abusive behaviour AND make the character likeable to many people, while also justifying why he lasts so many years as a vampire. Anyways, at least that's my read on the character. However, Lestat is definitely portrayed as more of a villain in the first book of the series (Interview with the Vampire, which is what seasons one and two adapted), than in the subsequent books. So if season 3 dives into The Vampire Lestat, it MIGHT be possible that they will bring new facets to the character, but I'm not too hopeful about it.
People are right to hate him but if you are genuinely upset by him and are against seeing him as a sympathetic villain then I would genuinely recommend letting the show go because that is frankly the future of the series. I think they will definitely question and hold him accountable for his actions but unless you love to hate him I would not hold your breath for him to be fully vilified. I’m always on team Louis but the arch of the series is about humanizing monstrous characters. If you aren’t on board for engaging in a show like that it’s probably best for you to give season 3 a chance if you want to see how they end up reckoning with his past but otherwise it will not be the show for you
There seems to be a sentiment (not just from you) that because I’m not willing to absolve him of his wrong doings, that I can’t enjoy the show if he’s central to it. This is not the case. I said in the beginning that he is fundamental and needs to be around for as long as the show lasts. He’s charismatic and entertaining. I literally don’t want him to go anywhere lmao.
Oh man, I was actually typing out my reaction and response and just notes and comments, as I watched and listened. But when I realized I was legitimately 5 paragraphs deep, and still not even 50% through the video, I backspaced it all. I want to discuss and talk about this show and these characters so bad, and love videos like these... where people just discuss their opinions and thoughts, and don't let delusional people in this fandom stop them from saying what they want to say. I really want to engage. But I'm a bit too passionate about this world and these characters (namely Louis), and I tend to rant and ramble WAY TOO MUCH. So I'll shorten it all the way down to this: I applaud you and appreciate that you took the time to make this video and put it out there, I'm definitely watching the next one as well. And while I do love Lestat as a character (coming from the books) I'm a Louis fan, through and through. So there are many things I agree with you on, for both characters. But some I disagree with you on, especially with how you speak about Louis. There's alot of Louis' character you seem to just not be taking into consideration at all, when characterizing him and his choices and actions. There's alot of victimization of him, trauma, trauma response, shock response, CPTSD, mental illness and mental disorders as a result of complex trauma and abuse. That seems to be just overlooked and disregarded, or maybe just not considered or understood. When referring to and/or talking about Louis. So the way you watered down and simplified his character, to things like "a pick me", etc. Was upsetting, I wont lie. But you've also said some hard truths about Louis that I personally am thankful people are speaking about and pointing out. I'm still not finished with the video, but I just wanted to say thankyou for sharing your opinion and opening this discussion, with some of the harder topics about these characters. Especially Lestat. Because it's rather unfortunate and honestly annoying, that there are many people in this fandom that don't have the maturity or grace to allow people to just have their own opinion. To share the fandom space. They literally troll and bully and straight up harass people just for opinions they don't agree with, to the point that people feel like they can't even have discussions, or opinions at all. It's disappointing, rather disheartening, and at times actually disgusting. To be apart of this fandom, with people like that. So again, sorry for still managing to ramble. But while I don't agree with every little thing said here, you did make multiple good points and said multiple things that I think more people should say and feel free to say. And I appreciate and thank you for the video. I hope, that more people are able to put out content like this, about this series and these characters, because at the end of the day it just shows how engaged people are with it. And that is ALWAYS a beautiful thing, to me.
Thanks for watching! To your point on Louis: I don’t go over the psychology of any of the characters, because that’s not the point of the video. This video is a direct response to people saying Louis and Claudia are worse, or on the same level as Lestat. So I simply go over the characters’ actions to prove otherwise. I could dissect their psychology and recognize their individual traumas all day-that won’t take away from the fact that I think Louis is a pick-me. In fact, that trauma contributes to him being a pick-me. But again, this video isn’t about character psychology. It’s about character action. And it’s done so in a more entertaining/comedic manner on purpose because this isn’t meant to be a deep character analysis. Hence him being reduced to a pick-me. Hope that clears it up!
@SaidByTy I figured as much, I didn't watch the video expecting any sort of deep analysis, so didn't mean it to be some sort of complaint. Just a personal reaction to how some things were said. I'll definitely be back for whatever videos you upload on the series. My current obsession and I love listening to other opinions on the show and characters. Especially from people who aren't afraid to say exactly what they want to 😉👌🏽
Well, i felt the same way when I read the books. You hate him and then sympathize with him and love him and hate him. He takes you through a myriad of emotions. A roller coaster if you will.
@@SaidByTy oh yeahh, a Lestat apologist posted your video like a day or 2 ago (basically mocking the video) & the Lestat army came in FULL FORCE retweeting and liking the post 1000s of times, smdh…it was all over my twt feed. They were losing their MINDS and being rude & condescending about your Lestat takes (basically proving a lot of your points about them). Anyway I loved your video and agree with u 100%!
Justice for Claudia and lowkey justice for Armond's reputation. Arguably, the man only has one honest bone in his body, and I can't see him wasting it on someone he just met who was clearly ready to leave him at a moment's notice. He is one of the most interesting and consistent characters in the show. The majority of his motivations and actions make sense, so much so that we don't even need his backstory to understand. I would also like to point out that Armond was never Claudia's parent and was never connected to her in that way. He was the foreign lover of an American divorcee who moved overseas with his adult child after a messy divorce. I think she was in her 30s when they met, and it makes no sense to hold him to the same standards as Lestat who helped care for her, on and off for 2 decades, throughout most of her formative years and then some. Armond knew of her for less than 2 years max and they were never close. For most of the show he mainly just knows her as his literal subordinate for however many months she's at the theatre and he hardly sees her at all outside of work. The worst things Armond did were being selfishly, horrendously down bad for a literal flashy American and refusing to pivot.
He didn’t have to care about her but what justifies him murdering her so he could have Louis to himself? Because that’s basically what he did. He used his power to strong arm Louis into a relationship he wasn’t really after in return for keeping their secret from the coven. And then when the truth came out anyway he proved just how fickle and useless his protection was by allowing the coven to essentially lynch Claudia and Louis. The only justice Armand deserves is a guillotine.
Oh, no need to defend Armand if we want justice for Claudia! He was her leader, he WAS responsible for her too. He forced to her to perform in a degrading play for years that took a mental toll on her and forbid her from having friends, and also participated and helped plan her torture and murder. He's supposed to be one of the most powerful vampires alive as well and could have easily stopped it. We can hate both Lestat and Armand, one can do both.
Lestat is my favorite character for the exact reasons you made this video. i love how evil he is. i love him and louis together because of how messy and toxic they are. this show knows what is interesting. and yeah, the only thing ill ever defend Lestat for is being hot and a diva
But see, this I can respect. You can be the “I love to hate him type” or you can just enjoy his general shenanigans. I have no problem with that. I enjoy his presence within the narrative, even though he pisses me off. But what I can’t take is the justifying of his actions. That’s what inspired the video.
I've read the books, watched the movies, day-dreamed fanfics, and watched some of this tv show. I came back with the conclusion that both Lestat and Louis are narcissists. Lestat is your typical extroverted narc and Louis is your closet narc. It makes sense that they attracted each-other. Louis is not innocent in all this, Like the guy pimps out women from his own community. A vampire to his own people before meeting his undeath.
LMAO YAAS. Well, i mean i dont necessarily agree with all your conclusions but i do enjoy watching people drag Lestat simply because his stans are absolutely insufferable. I havent read the books (probably won't, if I'm honest) but supposedly there's perspective and nuance we're supposed to get which im hoping will clear some things up; not necessarily because I care so much about seeing Lestat redeemed or anything like that (he isnt even my favorite character, Claudia is) but because I just think it'll be better for the story in general. I do disagree with you and Olay's assessment that Louis is a pick me. I think he's a guilt-ridden, extremely closeted, chronically depressed and most likely schizophrenic (like his brother) rich boy who is too much like his mean momma. He may have the eye for business and fashion and knows how to make money, but baby when it comes to common sense? There's simply no noggin in that pretty little head of his. Like Olurinatti said, Louis turns dumb whenever some dick come around. All the horrible things these centuries old monsters will do for him. Face card never declines and the bussy must be immaculate.
Not immaculate bussy 💀 But I’d actually say all those things you listed about him are the very factors that contribute to him being a pick me. That, and he himself said he worshipped Lestat and was afraid of disappointing him. Idk friend….
@@SaidByTyI'm obsessed with the crowd of people who unironically don't believe you should examine the flaws of gothic characters. Very funny and very concerning at the same time.
OMG FINALLY SOMEONE WITH SENSE!!! I was going crazy seeing all the Lestat lovers and defenders. The fact that people can brush off the abuse and the power Lestat has over Louis and Claudia from being a white man and also was their maker is absolutely bonkers. "Vampire morality is different" ok so trapping Louis and Claudia through emotional manipulation and coercion is ok, got it. He is a great villain, but that's what he is: a villain. Louis and Claudia are vampires too and while Louis has his abusive tendencies (only toward Claudia anyway) they aren't straight up villains, they are morally grey characters who did not choose their fate and you want the best for them in the end because at the end of the day they were victims of Lestat. Yes Claudia was also a victim of Louis but that does not change the fact that it's Lestat who had the power over them at the end of the day. People are allowed to like vampires in media for their monstrous qualities, but that's not what Lestat fans do. They might acknowledge his actions, but they will justify them in a way that will make him seem like a perfect little angel. Yes it's important to understand how Lester's trauma and vampiric nature turned him into the evil menace he was when he met Louis, but nothing he went through can justify being straight up sinister like that. Also, I have not watched season 2 because I don't know where to watch it, but I am really dreading the Lestat "redemption arc". He is the villain he can't be redeemed. No amount of charm or trauma can make me stop hating this man
It's not a redemption arc, per say. I think season 2 does a great job of asking the question - can someone like Lestat really change? Especially when you have hundreds of years to love is it possible to learn from your action and do better?
Am convinced this show and even the books was written with every character except Claudia to be both good and bad, I don't like lestat but I would completely put him in the villain box
YES! I am a Lestat hater to the end! But his fans are even worse, they justify aßuse and victim blame just to defend their attraction to him. You can absolutely think he's hot and enjoy his character well also acknowledging that he is a violent aßuser. Any redemption he could have had ended for me in the scene where he finds Claudia on the train. The shit he said to her was some of the most f*cked up shit I've ever heard.
YES! Like I said, I enjoy his presence in terms of what he adds to the show, but as an individual I can’t stand his ass. Him dropping Louis was insane.
Thank you for making this video- coming out of Season 2 I saw even Lestat haters/Claudia defenders become Lestat and Loustat-pilled, Claudia merely a "bittersweet death" meant to bring Lestat and Louis closure through their shared grief. Lestat is excused for all his crimes and is actually good for Louis, because they can now blame everything on Armand, including any wrongdoing Louis himself did towards Claudia.
It’s really unfortunate. What kinda lit my fire even more to make this video was watching a reactor say Armand is worse than Lestat (which I obviously disagree with at this point in time), and they said the trial made them look at the fight between Lestat and Louis differently. I had to get this out ASAP. This was therapy for me 😭💀
@@SaidByTy (sorry for the upcoming rant)The additional fight scene literally did not change anything for me and it's telling if it did for some people. It was obviously there to show how Louis as an abuse victim, even when he does fight back and protect his daughter (which fans get on his case about), does nothing because at the end of the day, Lestat holds all the cards. Anytime he holds back it's to feign helplessness and make Louis feel guilty enough to back off into submission, much like Armand also does when he gets into a relationship with Louis. Also, you can't tell me the trial was deliberately scripted to make Louis seem deranged and malicious. His rant about the lions feels off. It SHOULD feel off. The trial is there to make Lestat look better and get Louis and Claudia killed! Santiago the Obvious Evil Vampire going on about, "we're monsters not humans!" feels like a deliberate jab at the audience defending Lestat post 1x05. I personally don't think Armand or Lestat are the more evil one, just a different kind of evil, but yeah it doesn't escape my notice that Lestat, a white man, gets all the grace in the world with people remaining open-minded with him, while people were out since the Season 1 finale assuming the worst about Armand. Armand deserves all the flack and then some, but being used as a scapegoat to prop Lestat up? I hate it. Some of the writing choices in Season 2 definitely didn't help either. I'm glad making this video helped you though! :)
Anyone who holds this opinion has never read the books, and it shows. IwtV is a biased retelling of a story half remembered, from Louis' perspective. You haven't even met Lestat yet.
@SaidByTy How is the book irrelevant when the show is based on the book and has been pretty much faithful to the source material? It's not irrelevant at all.
@ Faithful? Louis being black and dealing with oppression and racism? Claudia being 14? Lestat dropping Louis from the sky? None of that existed in the books. ESPECIALLY Lestat dropping Louis, which is a big reason why this video was created. That only happens in the show. So yes-the books are irrelevant. You can’t make a comment about someone never reading the books when one of the major events being discussed doesn’t even happen in the books. It’s redundant and nonsensical to bring the books into this conversation.
@SaidByTy Yes, they changed some details, but it's faithful (so far) to the overarching story and the characters within it. An adaptation can be faithful in substance and overarching plot without copying every detail. And if this show stays faithful in substance, the audience hasn't really met Lestat yet, and he's certainly more nuanced than Louis, or this video, implies. It's never nonsensical to bring up source material when discussing an adaptation. That's just silly.
@ It is in this case. Because, again, a huge reason this video exists is because Lestat dropped Louis from the sky on the show. This doesn’t happen in the books. Period. It’s ludicrous (and even unfair) to use the books as a crutch, and point them out as if they’re some prerequisite to watching a series, when a major event that contributes to my disliking of a character doesn’t even occur in the books that you’re so insistent on referencing. THAT’S silly. And as for the whole unreliable narrator motif you people also like to use as a crutch-that was already addressed in the very beginning of the video. I made a follow up to this video addressing some of the backlash, and the book readers, like yourself, were part of what I addressed. If you care to, you can check out that video linked here and watch from 1:58 - 4:34 to see where I stand on this matter as a whole. Otherwise, we will simply disagree: th-cam.com/video/xfcekPE_10U/w-d-xo.htmlsi=1JMY0P2N-xMJOUDM
Yeah how dare Mama Du Lac think that her son could possibly kill her other son??! Uhhh... I wonder with that temper growing up how many times he threatened to kill his own brother in front of his mother.
@@marymarston1578 never thought about that. Hmmm... Wonder what his Dad was like that it seemed like a reasonable thing to do. I know it didn't HAVE TO BE his Dad, but can't you picture a childhood for Louis where his Dad handled such "problems" with his sons (and maybe his wife, too,) in a similar manner? And Mom looked on and watched her son growing into that same mindset ...
Weird, I replied and it disappeared. I never thought of that! Imagine a situation where Louis' Dad handled "problems" with his sons, maybe his wife, the same way. And his mother watched her husband's abusive behavior, and then watched Louis slowly becoming the same man.
Probably cause it’s irrelevant to analyzing the interpersonal relationships between vampires-which is what the video is about. But even if that’s included, Lestat’s still a worse piece of shit. There are levels, as stated in the beginning of the video :)
@aweirdtimeinmylifewe have no canonical proof that father du lac was abusive, or that Louis regularly threatens his brother. It was a performance for Louis to save face. We do, however, have proof that much of Lestats behavior is directly a result of his canonically abusive father and the abuse he suffered by the hands of his maker. In fact he often shamefully compares himself to either his biological father or his vampiric father Magnus
Okay i will go out on a limb and defend the reunion. A lot of people are weird about that moment, which i understand, but i think it was entirely for louis benefit and necessary so that he could move on with his life.
I don’t take issue with the fact that a reunion happened. My main issue is Louis absolving Lestat of the role he played in Claudia’s death and taking all the blame himself. And the whole “I made it hard for you” as if he didn’t have plenty reason to. I believe there is a world in which a reunion happening for closure purposes is much more effective, but as it stands it just feels like Louis is allowing his ab*ser to get away with everything.
@@SaidByTy yeah I can see that. In terms of Claudia's death - I mean obviously, neither of them wanted her to die. But Louis is right that he was the one who begged for her to be turned, which ultimately is what lead to Claudia's tragic unlife. I definitely think I would have changed some dialogue but overall I like the sentiment of that scene - this is ultimately not about who gets blamed for what. This isn't about Louis raging out against Lestat again and starting another one of their famous arguments, this is two estranged parents putting aside differences to grieve their daughter.
@@Yiningwu5622 Even if Louis begged for it, Lestat did not HAVE TO DO IT. The power imbalance between Lestat and Louis is massive. I need people to understand this. Lestat kill and turn Claudia because of his toxic desire to keep Louis even when Louis doesn't want to be kept. A fear of being alone just doesn't justify all of this. Everyone fears being alone. Maybe Lestat should not have put all his eggs in one basket, choosing to be with a closeted Black man in the Jim Crowe south that wanted to kill himself.
@@fizzychizzy I totally agree. Lestat does not get enough blame from the fandom for how selfish his love for Louis is. I'm saying that this is about Claudia and Louis. Louis needs to feel the full guilt of his failures towards Claudia. And Lestat, as Claudia's parent, is part of that. Remember Lestat is the only living being who has ever seen Claudia in the blood, who lived with her for decades and raised her from the age of 14. He carries memories of her just like Louis does. Anyways you'd be surprised at how many estranged parents put aside all of their bullshit when they lose their child. I think Louis saying that he is companion enough for himself is plenty evidence that the goal is not to save Lestat poor, innocent little soul but to give Louis the closure he needs
@@fizzychizzy No, Lestat did not have to do it....but how would Louis have felt about it[ or about Lestat] IF Lestat had *NOT* done it? Lestat did it _because_ Louis asked him to do it, because even after Lestat tried to explain to Louis why Lestat didn't want to do it, Louis still insisted that Louis didn't care and still wanted Lestat to do it anyway and also promised Lestat the one thing Lestat wanted most as a condition/reward of doing so for Louis. It doesn't necessarily justify it, but it does explain why it happened in potentially different light-whether Louis was doing it intentionally or not, Louis was taking advantage of Lestat's vulnerabilities and fears/desires in that moment and using them to get what Louis wanted when Lestat might/would not have otherwise given it to Louis. (Although, yes, Lestat was arguably also doing the same-knowing that doing this thing would get what Lestat wanted out of Louis too, when Louis would not have otherwise given that to Lestat either.)
You just need to leave the fandom and drop the show because Lestat is THE only MAIN character in the book series and will be THE MAIN character in the show you won't survive that
@@roantt4037 Awww, is the little Lestat dickrider upset because not everyone rides his dick? If you weren’t so slow, you’d have picked up in the very beginning that I very clearly state that Lestat needs to stick around because he’s entertaining and charismatic. He’s important to the show. Me disliking his qualities and calling out you losers for defending him doesn’t change that. So stop whining because not everyone drools over your white daddy, okay? That’s the only pathetic thing here. Get over it.
i feel for all of the vamps....but that man is a monster again he abused both claudia AND louis...mentally damaged louis so he could force him into becoming his immortal companion.. like how in the world did someone watch all of lestats actions and go "ya know what lestat was right" like EXCUSE ME
Loved your perspective on this. You're not wrong. He's called a brat prince in tue books for a reason. Hell, Akasha herself - an evil Vampire Queen - wanted a piece, thinking homie was still on demon time as well, which is valid considering what we know so far and what's possible to come. Definitely subscribing 😂
IMHO A lot of people think Lestat went into the trial wanting to save both Louis and Claudia but that’s not true at all. I think he went there wanting to save Louis and see Claudia die. I think his own feelings and regret for Claudia’s death is a direct result of how she looked at him like a child as she died, which is the reason Lestat goes to Magnus’ lair, right where the “disappointments” would go. Lestat himself says he wanted to understand why he did what he did and Louis explicitly articulates the implications behind such vague statement by saying he meant why he was pet of a play that killed his daughter. Lestat was hit with the fact that Claudia did care about him and he failed her in every possible level from his emotional abuse to the fact he participated in her death sentence. Not only that, we see through Madeleine and Louis that vampires can feel the emotions of their creators and possibly viceversa. So I would not be surprised Lestat would be hit with Claudia’s agony and all of the complex feelings she had about Lestat as she died. We clearly see that despite Claudia seeing him as a parental figure this never got in the way of her calling him out for his bs and wanting to free herself from his abuse. Lestat only opens his eyes to his horrible behavior just when Claudia dies. It’s horrible it takes the death of a black femme vampire for this yt man to have some character growth but would hardly say I’m surprised. Also Louis was the enabler parent and definitely facilitated a lot of her abuse. To me his arc is about realizing his pick me tendencies, his religious guilt, his hypocrisy, and him failing to prioritize Claudia. It is an acceptance that he was not a perfect victim but instead one that committed flaws and had more agency in certain situations, especially when it relates to how he treated Claudia. At the end he says yes to himself, even the darkest parts of him. But on Lestat and Louis’ relationship Louis is absolutely the victim. A part of me still hates their reunion sm though I can appreciate the feelings behind them after so many rewatches
Both Jacob Anderson and Sam Ried have both said that they fully believe that Lestat went into the trial with the intention of saving them both, I believe. While the actors’ interpretations aren’t the end all be all, I do think that they have a very good understanding of their characters and their motivations, so I’m choosing to believe them. (Also, just want to make it clear that I don’t want to offend you in any way. I just wanted to add this just in case since not everyone obsessively watches interviews and other similar content the way I do, lol. Your opinion is still very valid!)
@@HP-io2qu The problem is I’m pretty sure Jacob Anderson has also said he wants Louis and Lestat to be together. I’m sure you can conclude how I’d feel about that based on the video lol. So correct, definitely not the end all be all.
As a long time reader of the books and a huge fan of Lestat, he's awful and that's what hakes him fun. He is an awful person doing awful things then justifying himself and I like that. It has always been the appeal for most people and in my experiance still is. Some times you just want to see a villian get up to some shit
I’ll save you all the trouble of watching this biased a$$ video. He recaps every single ep in s1 and glosses over some eps in s2. He thinks of Lestat as an irredeemable evil, blames him for the trial, thinks Armand’s actions were less heinous than Lestat’s.
The rationale of calling the video biased as if the very nature of sharing opinions isn’t biased… slow bunch. But you’re actually spot on. Everything is accurate here.
@@SaidByTysweetheart there point is what actually was the point lol you literally did nothing with this video you lack the ability to have a nuanced thought you attempted to absolved armand the person who murder claudia and was going to murder louis which makes you not just biased but a complete hypocrite this video is actually trash that you spent time on apparently not having anything better to do it’s weird how intensely you are trying to defend the lots of nothing you said here
I love lestat and they all have good and bad and i dig lestats relationship lestat does love him shows it wrong sometimes but the love is there and louis agreed to be his life partner
I jumped around in the video to see if u had any takes that i havent seen....and for a Lestat hater, i feel like u need to read more analysis of the characters, because what u said its all kind of obvious. Yea yea, theres ppl who love Lestat and cant see this, but theres also way more interesting takes on why Lestat is awful out there. Also, comparing him to Armand giving the last one more grace when the dude did a whole lynching? weird
Clearly the reasons aren’t that obvious because some of this weird ass fandom are still arguing against the “obvious” points being made in the comments. Speaking of comments, yours is a strange one; what other reason would there be to dislike a character outside of their behavior? You’re reaching. And for someone who only jumped around the video, it’s very obvious that you only jumped around. I’ll never wrap my head around why yall are more upset at the random stepdaddy than the father who participated in his daughter’s death. THAT’S weird.
@SaidByTy i literally told u ur way of critizing lestat is a very superficial one and ive seen better & deeper analysis on his awful behavior, why that makes u mad? the fact is that even if you dont want to, lestat was obligated into it. The books say so, the writing seems to go that way, and the actors have talked about it. If you want to not see that, then dont see the future seasons. The thing is: you can still hate and critize Lestat even with that. But making excuses for Armand, just to make Lestat the villan (for season 2 especially) after all the abuse & gaslighting, lynching, lying, tortuting, brainwashing stuff....is a weird thing. You DONT HAVE to compare them, dont have to make one better than the other. But you choose to do it. Thats weird.
@@sbs19982 Everything you wrote was made invalid the moment you said “the books say so.” Are we talking about a book or a SHOW? Has that been revealed IN THE SHOW? If not, why would you expect viewers to magically know that if they haven’t read the books and don’t care to? A better question: why are you conflating the book and the show in the first place, as if they’re not two entirely different stories? Does Lestat drop Louis from the sky in the books? No. Is Louis black in the books? No. Is Claudia 14 in the books? No. So the books don’t matter when discussing the show, especially if you’re talking about something that isn’t even revealed yet. Period. You don’t know what other major changes they’ll make. Relying on the books as a crutch is lazy. Yall need to get that through your heads, and quickly.
@SaidByTy I love how you keep bringing up this random stepdaddy thing and then conveniently skip over the 70 years of gaslighting and memory manipulation he put Louis through💀💀💀 did he have no ties with him even then?
@@SaidByTy idk man, i noticed something weird w lestat in the trail, when he wasnt talking he was barely there, almost not being able to stand, kind of passing out. Thats a thing, even Sam Reid (Lestats actor) talked about it. And you could see his face was way more tired in the "real memory" of him saving Louis than the version of him from the rest of the trail. At the moment, i said "uh, weird" but knowing the writing in this show, i knew it was very intentional. when someone talked abt it about the books i was like "ohhh, yeah, makes sense". The whole fandom took notice of it. there's interviews where they speak on it, saying we are gonna get more of an explanation of lestats involvememt in future seasons. I guess for casual views this is gonna be a surprise, but for people who pay more attention this is a known little detail. you made an hour long video and cant pay attention to details of the character u want to critize? dont be mad at facts, bro lmao
In the books I like Lestat cause, actually he doesn't transforme Louis out of nothing, he makes Louis help him killed a guy first, later he transformed him but is true that he always keeps secrets. Another reason why I like him more is that there is not Antoinette, so he didn't cheat on him, also Louis is white 😅 But Claudia!! even if she was originally 5 yo, she is my girl, my precious girl who was the real victim of these 2.
There’s one little thing that you are forgetting. Louie is revealed to be an unreliable narrator in the second book of the vampire chronicles. In the book the vampire Lestat he spends the first few pages setting the record straight about what happened during the events of the first book! (Claudia was 15 or 16 when he turned her so by their standards of the time she would have been considered an adult, lestat only targets murderers, and he had less than nothing to do with the events that happened in the vampire theater because he could barely stand much less actually do anything to help Louie and Claudia, he was forced to tell the vampires at the theater what happened because he needed refuge and blood! Just to name a few.) so it’s pretty safe to say that Louie might not be telling the whole truth yet again! (I mean in the first episode of the show the author called Louie out on some inconsistencies in his story between what he said during the first interview and what he’s saying now.)
@@SaidByTy I’m just pointing out that if and when we get Lestats perspective the story might be very different indeed and with Armand hypnotizing Louie it could definitely impact his perspective on events. I’m not saying the events described in the interview aren’t terrible (because they are) I’m just pointing out that Louie has a habit of demonizing lestat and with Armand hypnotizing him things could have played out differently from even how he experienced them!
@@leannkennett905I understand your concern! But i would like to point something out. This looks like you are trying to justify abuse. You seem te be doing this by pointing out that the victim of said abuse is not perfect and does not have perfect memory of the events that happened almost a century before. It seems like you are trying really hard to victim blame an abuse survivor. And i'm sure that is not your intention! It does not matter that he, or the others, are fictional. Victims are not perfect and dont have perfect memory, certainly of traumatic moments (fictional or not) that does not mean they didn't happen or that they shouldn't be believed. That he is an unreliable narrator, which they all are, does not mean that his experiences and feelings are not valid (this goes for Armand, Lestat, Claudia and Daniel as well). Does Louis have anger towards both Lestat and Armand, yes! justifilyably so, and this ofcourse colors the memory. But that doesnt matter in the end, because the impact was the same: he had all his bones broken, lost his family, was in a relationship so toxic he had to flee to a different continent, lost his daughter in a gruesome way and felt so much agony that he decided to burn himself to a crisp while being high out of his mind. Those last behaviors, the promiscuity, drug abuse and suicidal idiation, dont come falling out of no where and people generally dont do them for fun and attention. So im inclined to believe louis when he says that his experiences with them both Lestat and Armand were aweful. (He doesn't even call himself a victim) It does not take away from the other characters that their treatment of louis resulted in this interview with this framing. Yes both armand and lestat went through horrible things that they didnt deserve, but louis' experiences at their hands do not need to be invalidated for that to remain true. Also in my opinion this framing just adds to the characters, see it as the start of character arcs for them. The worse they start, the better, more satisfying it is to watch the journey throughout the seasons. Let the first seasons be exactly that, the beginning. We haven't gotten to the meat and potatoes yet where they *spoilers*. It forms a good and complex basis for all of that. It would be rather boring to, in the next seasons, just be discussing what was true and what was not (when we know that doesnt really happen in the book, lestat spends about 3 sentences going yeah that was a lot but i would have killed me too). The forst two seasons are a starting point, yes this and that happend and it was true (and all have perspectives and lie to themselves about things) but now what? Sorry this was long, its just that ive seen similar opinions on the internet in the last year and i just needed to get this out. I hope you understand what i tried to explain..it is fine if you still disagree! Then we just live and let live😊
@@Eveslittlehistories nope, (I even pointed out that if things happened as described they are pretty bad.) but we are talking about some significant and egregious differences in Louie’s original story (which is cannon in the series as illustrated by the scene where Louie dramatically burns the old tapes and the scene where they flash back to the original interview) like the huge difference between turning a 5 year old into a vampire (very very bad.) and lestat turning a girl at 15 in early America where she is considered an adult and would have possibly been married off or in the process of being married off way back then! Or Louie making it seem like lestat was slaughtering innocent people who did absolutely nothing wrong when really he was specifically targeting serial killers and multiple murderers who would probably face the death penalty if their crimes were ever discovered.
@@leannkennett905 Lol what? To entertain your points about the incongruencies, ep 2.5 pretty much suggests that the contents of the original tapes are not the same as the books we have read. Pieces are the same yes and he did demonize lestat in that first interview. He also immediatly gets called out on it. In the second interview, in dubai, however it is clearly told to us that this is a more truthfull and nuanced story(still colored by his feelings, but that is any story ever told by anyone). That is the point of the second interview, for Louis to remember what he forgot and to tell the truth (from his and claudia's POV). The point of the first interview in SF was to lash out and be angry. So your point is moot. also "claudie married off at 15?" nothing in the show suggests that was the case, she was 14 btw, so you are just making things up now. Your other point about lestat killing serial killers and murderers is book canon, the same canon where he drained a mother and young child outside of a cathedral and was very sexual about it by his own admission(the Vampire Lestat. p142). Neither book not show Lestat is a good and virtuous person. We are talking about the show tho so that is an irrelevant point. But it is true that that is a bit in the book i had forgotten. Thank you for reminding me, im sorry that i glossed over the point, there are probably others. My point is that it doesnt matter tho. This does not take away from my main point that you are still, even when i tried to point it out very nicely, trying to blame a victim here. You do not seem to grasp what i was trying to say, that Louis feelings, wether he misremembers things or not, are valid. Truth and reconcilliation. And these imperfect expression of feelings is even interesting for the show as it gives characters dimension and the relationships complexity. But I can't convince you. It seems that we have watched two different shows. I can't believe you want Louis to be the villian this bad... is it racism or is it something else? do you just not like it when characters are complex and relationships have nuances and layers? And don't think i didn't notice how suddenly Armand has left your argument lmao. I like lestat, i've read the books, i've seen the show. Lestat is a cool character, but not because he is good. Because he is a terrible person who is self aware, does it on purpose because he feels that because of vampirism he has lost all rights to humanity in himself (does not justify anything). He is repeating cycles of abuse, so are all the others. They hurt eachother, they love eachother, they have to live with eachother forever. whatever would make you think that after 2 seasons and 3 years this, very well thought out, show is going to say fuck it all of that was lies? dont answer that, its a rethorical question. Louis' story has to hold a lot of truth, lestats story adds context. Lestat is not redeemed through that context nor is Louis a liar in the end. He is called dramatic in the books, sure, but abusers tend to not experience abusing the same way as the abused experienced it and tend to then minimise it. On the writers team there is a person who is essentially the lead on writing accurate and respectfull abuse portrials. She is still on that writers team. An abuse redemption/ rebuilding a relationship story arc that is respectfull to its victim (which the show has been these last two seasons) can not have their story and feelings be minimised or debunked. A storyline like that doesnt work that way. Sorry i'm done, i dont know you. You said a vile thing in the comments and i comment back because people need to know that that was not ok actually. it is a compleetly gross thing. goodnight.
Lestat was still beating on Louis even before they took the fight into the coffin room. Idc Louis was mean and neither did Lestat because for him Louis leaving with Claudia was all he needed to hear to drop him from the sky.Some Lestat apologist really thought that scene was meant to jusify the drop i cant
I don’t think Lestat is irredeemable yet, if he takes Claudia’s death and is truly sorry, as suggested, in the last episode of season 2. He maybe able to learn from this and change. (Hopefully not too much)
The issue is that we are unfortunately viewing Lestat through Louis' eyes and the show has already proven him to be an unreliable narrator, much more than the books ever did. We don't really know how the events actually played out. Have you ever misrembered a detail that you sure was true and then being told that your memory is wrong? That happened to me once and it was crazy. Emotions, trauma and time can sometimes warp memory in crazy ways. Imagine being a vampire with heightened emotions and stretching out that time with unnatural vampire lifespans. Also, there is Armand litterly messing with his memory.
Which is why I made it a point to say in the beginning that unless everything we know isn’t true, there is no justification for Lestat. Because I’m aware that we’re getting different perspectives. But the point was that even from the limited knowledge we do have, people have gone out of their way to paint Louis and Claudia in a bad light in favor of Lestat. That’s why this video was made.
@SaidByTy Oh, I get the point of the video. I think that they have already confirmed that Lestat did watch Claudia die and did nothing to stop it. That alone was cold blooded and ruthless, regardless if the events played out the way they did or not. I just know that Anne Rice loved the character and used the second book as a way to retcon a bunch of the evil actions of Lestat and put him in a more sympathetic light. I'm not sure if this iteration will get that chance, but they did create an easy out with Armand. We know that Armand is obsessed with Louis and is jealous of Lestat. So it would not be unreasonable to believe that many of Louis' memories of Lestat specifically were altered by Armand.
The show doesnt have villains besides perspectives. Wait. Lestats abuse doesnt justify his wrongs, but Louis is just a victim no matter what wrongs he does?
I literally state in the video that Louis isn’t above criticism and actively call him terrible for what he did to Claudia. Did you watch the whole thing or are you just being argumentative?
Thank you for making this! Especially in the original books, I felt Ann Rice made it clear that Louis is an imperfect victim. But a victim nonetheless of Lestat and Armand’s abuse. Also people falling for Lestat’s charm is exactly what both series are warning us against. Abusers can be charming as hell and use that charm to get away with being awful.
actually agreeing to have done bad things and just agreeing to being the cartoon villain you lot want him to be are two different things he would absolutely agree that he has fucked up many MANY times in his life that is true
@ I don’t want him to be anything. I’ve read the chronicles twice over. I just stated he would agree that he is terrible . That’s one of the many things that makes him such a compelling character. People hating him for his actions are allowed to feel the way they feel.
So while I'm not challenging your point: yes, Lestat is a villain and louis is a victim. I think you misinterpreted the entire framework of the show in order to present a very black and white (both morally and racially) picture of the show. We are not supposed to interpret every instance of season 1 as fact because louis is an unreliable narrator. Unequivocally, yes, the sum of the experience is one where (both in the book and in the show) Lestat is abusive and takes advantage of a grief torn louis. In the show they take it a step further by having him physically harm louis in order to replace the events of the book since the new version necessitated a different scene. I personally feel this could be a mistake given that Lestat is the main character of the entire series and him doing that to Louis will prevent some viewers from ever seeing his as a protagonist ever again. However, regardless, doesn't change the fact that he's an abuser. And that Lestat chooses in the books not to rewrite louis's story. He instead focuses on his own story to explain some of the major decisions he made and emphasizes the moments where louis in the book expresses a more even exchange. The show probably will not clarify further the storyville events just as the book did not. I believe we are meant to accept the unclear nature of what the exact truth is as viewers. To recognize that there's trauma there but that it's not so clean as saying Lestat is this mastermind villain and unredeemable. What bothers me is the lack of nuance you give to those scenes because it's a central piece of the story. And because it leads you to misinterpret the ending. Lestat is not "with" louis or a part of Louis's life. Louis went there for closure and then left. They had a moment but now Lestat is gone. That's the point of the ending where Louis challenges the other vampires. He's alone. He's accepted himself as a vampire (and you glcould argue as a queer man) and he's prepared to start living truthfully (something he has not allowed himself even after he gained the power to do so). However I'm glad this video exists. Because again, I love Lestat but especially how he's presented in this adaptation (unreliable narrations or not) hes still an abusive bastard and so many people minimize that reality. It's not fair to the story or the character for people to blindly support him because that's not what his character is. He's a fucked up charismatic asshole who probably has borderline personality disorder amped up to the inifonite level of vampiric emotion and who literally embodies, 'im going to fuck around and find out" We can love him, but we should not condone or excuse 80% of what he does. Especially with the new context of the racial power dynamics at play within this chapter of his story. And I hope your video helps prevent some of the very weird victim blaming given both to Louis and Claudia
1). Within the first few minutes of this video I address perspectives and very clearly state that this video is predicated on everything we know being TRUE. So no, I didn’t ignore the unreliable narrator motif, it’s just put to the side for the sake of this video, and I make it clear that that will be the case in the very beginning. 2). I never said the two of them ended up together at the end, nor do I imply as much, so I’m not sure where you pulled that from. 3). I’m not sure where exactly you believe you’re pointing out my lack of nuance? I understand the point of the scene. I simply don’t agree with the things Louis says-whether it’s for closure or not-and I’m entitled to not agree with that. I’ve expressed that there is a world in which I believe that scene could have been done better for purposes of closure TO ME. Has nothing to do with misinterpretation or not understanding nuance. I just believe Lestat is villainous and doesn’t deserve that much grace from Louis, and until the show presents something otherwise, that will continue to be my belief. 4). Speaking of what’s on the show; I would really like for everyone to stop bringing up the books when discussing the actions on a show, especially when things on the show exist entirely separate from the books. It’s redundant. I do thank you for pointing out the video’s necessity though. I agree.
@SaidByTy thanks for some clarification ☺️ I definitely misinterpreted some items like number 2. Honestly I'm not trying to say you're wrong. I just watched the show from a very different framework/perspective partially because I like the complexity and partially because I am a huge fan of the books. But it's definitely interesting to see someone who watches it in a different way from me. I kind of wonder what Anne Rice would think. Because within the uniervsere of the Book cannon, the books are real and folks read it and then reference them in later books. I kind of wonder if the fake audiences of the book have similarities to the very real audience of the TV show. Going in blind and with the unreliable facts of either character, creating their own truths from the work and their own alliances so to speak. Idk its just very fun to see and I'm glad folks are engaging so much with it considering it's the only successful and good adaptation to come out since the brad Pitt movie. So thanks lol
I'm 100% sure he will enjoy season 3 😂 Nicki(biggest lestat hater)will probably be his favourite character ,we will see how lestat's gonna react when his lovers are not pick mes like Louis 😂
@@SaidByTyI mean, my prediction for season three is that we will gear up for Lestats character arc. This show is about contrition - for Lestat I think his arc will essentially be about learning to be a better vampire-lover for Louis' sake, and for his own. The thing with Lestat is that he clearly deeply fears loneliness, but if he continues to act an ass he will continue to drive everyone away, and he'd become a self fulfilling prophecy. We already see he is guilt ridden because of what he did to Louis and Claudia and only in death does he really know how much he loves Claudia and feels guilty about being a horrible father. Louis and Lestat both need to mourn her, and Lestat has many toxic behaviors he needs to unlearn
@@SaidByTy i've just read other comments and you run around in circles calling everyone delusional no matter what argument is being said. not falling for that, armand dedeflection
It makes me lose my mind the amount of disdain and indifference people have to claudia when she was one of the best characters. The fandom accuses her of being the cause of all of the problems in louis and lestat's relationship. Lestat did nothing but tell her her existence was a mistake and mocked what happened with charlie and later on taunted her with her own assault by bruce. And somehow people still see her as someone that only wanted to get in the way of lestat and acted as if she didn't have all the reasons in the world to escape and k ill lestat
I didn't find Claudia likable at all (despite her being interesting.) Doesn't justify Lestat's energy toward her at all either though.
It's the misogynoir 100%, she's great and super interesting and anyone who dislikes her but loves lestat is automatically a little sus to me
I think a lot of the people who dislike her are people who disliked her book version and can't help but see that in her character whenever she's on screen or in their thoughts. But...I could definitely be wrong.
@@jaginaiaelectrizs6341You're wrong. I've been in this fandom for decades. Claudia in the book was seen a a tragic victim especially since she was based of Anne Rice's late daughter. The five year white girl has never gotten the hate the 14 year old Black girl did.
You are wrong. I've been in this fandom for decades and everyone loved blond haired blue eyed Claudia. Black teen Claudia not so much.
The fandom is so rac1st, it is rotting their judgement. Louis is an abused victim, preyed upon by 2 "older" charismatic partners and I think, a lot of us survivors recognisd the pattern in season 1:
- love bombing
- seduction/manipulation
- grooming
- isolation
- withholding of information
- preying on uninformed consent
- lying/cheating
- double standards/coercion
and finally
- physical abuse
Yes! And I was gonna mention love bombing in the video, but it’s not a subject I’m the most familiar with. Didn’t want to talk out of my ass, but yes!
Also because of the time period, Louis can’t seek help without getting outed as gay and a vampire. Which (minus the supernatural elements) is a very real struggle for queer people in abusive relationships. And vampires and monsters in general are a stand in for any marginalized community but especially has strong LGBTQ ties.
@@SaidByTy but aren't the other ones also victims?
Why does being a victim excuse Louis but not the others?
@@olavihekandjo2928 When was Louis excused of anything? Just cause we’re acknowledging he’s an abuse victim doesn’t mean he can’t be criticized for his own misdeeds. That’s literally part of the video.
This fandom isn’t racist, new fans who’ve only seen the show talk about the franchise like they understand it, and call us racist for liking a character that existed before they were even born lmfao.
The thing about S1 Ep2 that always bugged me, and nobody ever talks about, is that after Louis' near-nephew-eating, Lestat presents him with matching tuxes and says, "I've been neglectful of our romance." But at the opera, instead of fixating on trying to soothe Louis' insult, Lestat spends the whole night lavishing his attention on another man...the tenor.
I mean.... he wasn't really lavishing _romantic_ attention on the tenor, though. He was lavishing murderous intent on the tenor. In a sense, you could perhaps see Lestat with the tenor as Lestat expending a really lavish effort on preparing dinner....for Louis. Just, unfortunately for Lestat, he spent a ton of effort preparing a meal that Louis hated / had absolutely zero interest in eating but was too polite or too afraid to refuse completely. You could perhaps say that maybe Lestat was trying to reassure Louis that eating people is totally okay and perfectly natural to them as vampires and not something that Louis should be in such a twist of shame over and does not make Louis any less desirable to Lestat[-and perhaps Lestat merely forgets or fails to see why human/biological family should be any different to a vampire than any other human is]. But it's all speculation, since Louis isn't privy to why Lestat did the things that Lestat does, we the audience have no idea why Lestat was actually doing it or not. We don't really know if Lestat's designs that evening were intentional and made around consideration of Louis and Lestat's own personal perceptions of what should/shouldn't resolve Louis' feelings of upset over almost eating that baby OR if Lestat was merely so touchy about the tenor's musical crimes that Lestat got caught up in the moment and forgot all about attending to Louis[ maybe because the tenor was an immediate concern that had to be addressed right then or maybe wouldn't be there at all tomorrow while Louis is a theoretically much more constant thing that hypothetically 'will still be there tomorrow' to get around to addressing finally afterward later on] or what. 😅😅🙃👀 For whatever that may or may not be worth.
@@jaginaiaelectrizs6341 I said that Lestat should have fixated on trying to "soothe Louis' insult" with pointed intent. As a romantic date, he chose a venue where his lover had to act as his servant. To reward such humiliating sacrifice, the only man in the room for Lestat should have been the only Black man in the room...But admittedly, your ruminations are more fun haha!
@@tdali8347 To be clear, I don't actually disagree with you....Lestat SHOULD have been paying more attention and sensitivity to Louis(Louis definitely should have been Lestat's only focus/priority/etcetera, for sure). I'm just also acknowledging that it could be possible that maybe that was[ in Lestat's own mind] Lestat's own strange way of actually trying to soothe Louis' insult, and he's just absolutely inhuman shite at it-kinda like a cat who "gifts" its human a dead bird. Loll
Lestat’s idea of a romantic night out is conducting an extravagant murder with his partner vaguely in the periphery
What gets me about this: the first time they meet he comments on how Louis’ skin is supposed to keep him out the door. He understands the racial dynamics. Yet Lestat goads Louis into going to an opera, where he has to stand and pretend to be his valet.
Oh so romantic 😒
All of Louis’ major crimes are against Claudia and other Black women but for some reason Lestat and Armand fans try and pretend he was their abuser. Because we know people dgaf about Black women especially 😭
That's what I'm saying... Like they wanna talk about "Louis isn't a saint either!" "They are vampires they have different morals" but they never talk about Louis *actual* flaws and his mistreatment of his family members or Claudia. No, it's poor baby Lestat and poor baby Armand.
THAT PART. ion like how they brushed off Ms. Lily’s death… at all!
@Yiningwu5622 isn't that the same as you guys haying Lestat for his crimes against Louis and nothing else?
@@olavihekandjo2928No. most of Lestat’s abusive flaws were heavily shown THROUGH his dynamic with Louis (and Claudia as well).
Louis’ poor traits were mainly highlighted in his external relationships. Examples: when he was a shit father to Claudia by choosing over and over again and when he was absolutely awful to his sister and her family (the latter could be traced back to his own wounds from his relationship with his mother and Lestat but he still was awful regardless).
@@pulse_rate Louis wasn't "Hateful or awful" to his own family out of nowhere, or really at all considering nothing was done out of malice. Guy got blamed for his brother's death, essentially disowned by his mother, over the span of maybe a couple days, and when he does show up, like a month and a half later (Pretty appropriate time to have her cool down), he's able to see into his mother's thoughts and that she doesn't like his "lifestyle" on top of singularly blaming him for not keeping contact, despite him even saying "It's a half mile both ways". The ONLY woman who is in his corner at this point is his sister, and that wanes the next time he comes around, and all but disappears after he loses control when bringing gifts to the twins, being barred from entering a house HE OWNS. The next two times he sees Grace, he's essentially getting shortchanged for the house with an attitude, and then sees her over his own tombstone. Louis isn't the instigator in any of these instances, unless him not coming around regularly is what you count as instigating.
While Claudia was undoubtedly handled poorly, (By a "parent" who immediately jumps into the teenage years with no prior experience no less) acting like the most important women in his life aren't equally harming him or starting these altercations is ridiculous. Half a mile away, and NO ONE tries to reach out to him, despite being in his house? Hell, they have phones, and we the audience know he can't just go to every event they hold, so where exactly is he mistreating his sister or mother? Are we talking about him not giving them more things here or what? Can they not start holding parties in the evenings? Where are they meeting him halfway?
When this "No one cares about black women" discourse comes up, we real quick to throw black women's actions under the rug, like ya'll don't have to try either. 90% of the reason he ended up with Lestat was because of his mother, and we see no one trying all that hard to actually stay connected despite him essentially being down the street. Not that hard to set up times to meet him during the day or drop by in the afternoon/evening. Despite being a vampire, even he can't be absent yet awful despite never instigating things.
I love this blond demon but i also love a hate rant on him
The messiest bisexual to ever fuck around to find out
blonde demon 🤣
his stans being self proclaimed “villain lovers” who cant cope with the fact that he is a villain is so funny
i think its the abusive part of lestat that they can't stand. they were fine with lestat commiting murder but the moment s1 e5 hit I remember they had a tantrum saying it was bad writing for writing the domestic violence scene on twitter. I wish I was joking but a lot of them could not cope that this version of lestat who has all the sings of being capable of doing such a thing would do said thing. and I lowkey think that them arguing that there is no good person in the show (fuck cluadia's drag ig) is them coping with the fact that lestat committed DV.
@@rifa1673 Exactly. Their chaotic, “likable”, charismatic fave actually did something they can’t justify.
Tbf, there are different groups of Lestat fans. There are Lestat fans that die-hard love him because he's awful, they know he can do wrong, and they like it when he does. But then there are Lestat fans that love him because they believe he can do no wrong that isn't somehow understandable if not entirely justified(and I think most of these are specifically fans of Book 2 who don't really separate between the books and the tv series at all and project stuff from the books onto everything they watch in the tv series).
@@rifa1673 these fans are literally acting like he didn’t isolate them for decades in the books all for the sake of “he knows more than they do and he must teach them”. He’s always been a abuser, him doing domestic abuse isn’t shocking
@ girl you might need to gather these book fans because im not reading them like ever let alone to see if these abuse apologists are right
Lmao I love how you ride for Claudia ONLY and whack Louis too here cause... YES!!
That said, I wholeheartedly believe that if you genuinely think that Lestat was at that trial willingly you are watching the episode with Lestat hate goggles on and not catching the details the episode is throwing at us lol
But of course these are speculations based on the book, we'll see next season
If you mean to tell me Louis is capable enough to murder that entire coven, but LESTAT was forced by them to be in that trial, I am gonna scream 💀 but yeah, I haven’t read the books. I’m consuming the show as its own entity. Only feasible explanation is Armand could’ve forced him. But that’s the only thing I’m willing to accept lol.
@SaidByTy as u should!! They've changed so many things that the show IS its own entity, no idea what direction they'll take with some things, but I don't believe a thing armand de gaslighter says anymore lol
@@emilygalassi4210we don’t know yet if they’re going to adapt that yet though. They’ve changed certain parts from the books already so I’m curious as to what they’ll adapt from that too.
@sanaishere18 yeah I know, but there are clues imo! Like there's a whole shot of Lestat swaying on his feet staring at nothing with wide eyes (around the end of the trial, after Louis is brought off stage), and in this show everything is on purpose
THANK YOU! I am tired, as an avid book and show fan, of people who treat lestat with soft hands AS IF THE NARRATIVE HASN'T CHANGED COMPLETELY with louis and claudia in the show. Not to mention, he was THE VILLAIN in the first book. There are gradations to how "terrible" or "evil" each character is and Louis will NEVER be on the same level/tier as Lestat is. The way people want to completely refute that Louis was ABUSED by Lestat is crazy.
There are still people in the comments who can’t separate the show from the books. I’ve received a few “you don’t understand/know him” statements from that crowd over the past couple days. It’s so bizarre how they want to use the books to make that claim as if the show isn’t an almost entirely new thing.
Claudia was my favorite character: the best vampire to ever vampire. RIP to a real one!
You get it
this fandom is such an unsafe place for black domestic abuse survivors i genuinely can’t even interact with them anymore LOL. BUT I LOVED YOUR VIDEO!!!!! purely you for my iwtv fandom content
You’re absolutely right. I appreciate the support ❤
nobody is forcing you to interact with them LOL
@@justkidding69every fandom is a community so everyone should be welcome (unless they harm someone) thats not too much to ask so what id your deal here
I like Lestat (genuinely, enjoy him a lot) but this video is SO needed.
It's so annoying how every time I watch a react channel watch this show and say that Lestat is an abuser, the comment section is just full of people being like "No, you don't understand," "Remember it's an unreliable narrator," "Wait til you get to season 2 before you form judgement." Like, first of all, can you PLEASE climb off Lestat's lap long enough to let people react how they're going to react?? The show clarifies the unreliable narrator stuff; you don't have to ruin the incredible storytelling for other people by getting ahead of it because you can't stand to hear someone have a bad opinion about your white fav for one second while he's literally got his fingers in a black man's neck.
And second of all, this assumption people have that Lestat's accounts are going to clear up what really happened are so gross to me. First of all, because the only accounts called into question by Lestat's testimony are *Claudia's* accounts, or her changing and the fight. The only time Lestat contradicts something *Louis* said was his account of being chased instead of being the one chased, and in that case LESTAT WAS LYING. The trial was explicitly skewed to make Louis look bad, and Lestans are still pointing to it like, "See?! 🥺" Genuinely unsavory behavior. They were on pins and needles waiting to invalidate Louis' experience.
And again, I like Lestat a lot. But people's inability to sit still and let someone talk about the many wrongs he committed is a lot like people's inability to let anyone talk about Loumand without bringing up Armandaniel- deeply annoying after a while.
I’ve had a few “you don’t understand” comments for this video. No one, so far, has been able to articulate what exactly I’m missing within the realm of the show at this point 🤷🏾♂️ mostly they use the books as a crutch, as if the show and the books are interchangeable. I guess when you’re so desperate to defend a character you do what you gotta do, but it’s meaningless. The stories are different.
I have also noticed that many of them believe season 3 will be the one to clear his name in a sense. Would really hate it for them if the narrative for that season is flipped on its head as well 🤭
@@SaidByTy LOL, I'm looking at Season 3 Lestat like, "Daniel, get him! Get him, Daniel!" (But also a little bit looking at Daniel like, "Lestat, get him!" because I think it'll be funny.)
I am on the beginning of the video and have thoughts but I need to comment about the "Lestan's" name. It cracked me up!!!! That was supposed be his named but Anne made a typo 😅😂
21:12 this is the shit abusive parents say about their kids that have cut contact with them after years of mistreatment. The ones who call boundaries “abuse”
“After all I did for you, you’re so ungrateful”
“No respect for your elders”
“All I get in return is disrespect and abandonment”
Just need the classic “I did the best I could” to call bingo
But truely, early Lestat and Louis remind me of my parent’s abusive dynamic: the narcissistic addict and the enabling codependent. A classic dynamic
Spot on!
"Louis can't stand on his own for sh!t," (20-ish minutes in) made me laugh.
No lies told 😌
I took the two seasons acted as different perspective of the same time. Luis is not a reliable narrator. But neither is lastat. Hopefully season 3 has more .
Fair point. I do wish we knew who exactly to believe completely. I guess the different perspectives adds to what makes the show so great lol. But at the same time I find it hard to believe that Louis could distort every part of entire narration of his time with Lestat. There’s also Claudia’s diaries that may back up some of Louis’ perspective.
Lestat himself said he's sorry for "breaking" Louis. So even if Louis has a biased view of what happened (because of trauma and guilt) I don't think he lied but yeah, we'll see in season 3
Lol at f Lestat and the one who birthed him. I NEED NEED a video on Gabrielle (His mom) next season. It will explain so much about him.
Quiet as it’s kept Gabrielle is completely indifferent to Lestat. IMO she’s a way better vampire and makes lestat look like a whiny cornball
@lovelybrown9081 Oh I agree I think she cares but not that much which is what makes all his issues worse. I also think a lot of her love comes from her projecting who she wants to be onto him.
Nothing in the world can convince me that Lestat did not get Louie’s brother to end himself. I truly believe that Lestat wanted Louie and knew that he had to separate him from his family in order to get him. Smh.
People that don’t see that Lestat was an abuser have to live so far inside a bubble it’s ridiculous. He shows all of the signs of a narcissistic abuser and it’s not like it doesn’t hit you over the head with it. He intentionally went after a man at his most vulnerable and isolated him from his family all while lovebombing the shit out of him. It also makes the power imbalance very clear. The willful ignorance is just ugh. You’d have to have lived a very blessed life and very low empathy to not realize that
Considering the way I was attacked online by the Lestat apologists-they clearly have very low empathy (unless it’s for a pretty white man 🤷🏾♂️).
Whats crazy is that lestat himself also believes this, and claudia and louis taking him out was like a reset that made him chill
Like people refuse to see what their own favorite character sees 😭
@@Cosmicvmp739it's crazy that not even Lestat agrees with the victim mentality that his fans give him. His getting murdered was like a factory reset.
he literally got claudia killed
@l.josino i do not know what the show itself is going to do (but with the cast talking about how we should "notice" things in the trial) it will go with the book justification
But either way the bigger point is that lestat fans deny something he himself acknowledged in how insane he was
Lestat is the villain, whom Louis uses to absolve himself of his own selfish actions.
Lestat, when he takes center stage of the story, is the unreliable narrator, wanting us to understand his own justifications for his own actions, painting himself as a hero and victim.
Very well put. I agree.
Leave my Louis alone 😂
Yes, typical narcissistic behavior (painting yourself as superior to everyone AND AT THE SAME TIME the poor victim everyone hurts and wrongs). Peak cognitive dissonance, in the fandom as well. Lestats actor is very irresponsible for reinforcing that Lestat truly loves Louis. By which definition of love?? This is so irritating to hear this from an adult.
Lestat is justified in abusing people because he has feelings? So did Ted Bundy. Everyone has some range of feelings. We are all responsible for regulating our feelings so we don’t harm others.
Or he is excused because he’s charming? So was Ted Bundy.
Actually Id rather compare Lestat to Jeffrey Dahmer, the gay serial killer who preyed on black communities because the cops wouldn’t look after them so hard when they went missing. The way he hunts Louis in the beginning is eerily similar.
And not just Lestats actor, but the show itself seemed on Lestats side at the end of season 2, with Daniel being so excited (already out of character for him isn’t it) that Lestat saved Louis and Armand is so baad, which makes no sense because Daniel so far was annoyed by the relationship drama and his goal was to survive, which is unlikely if he pisses Armand off, so why purposefully piss Armand off? And if Lestat saved Louis, so what? He saved him after lifetimes of abusing him and then retraumatizing him with the „trial“ and then „saving him“ aka just not murdering him. Thats the lowest standard ever oh wow my partner tortured but didn’t murder me. Bro! This is so far beyond reason, I am completely disoriented.
And Louis runs to Lestat to hug and cuddle him, for just abusing him, but hey, not killing him? What?
Lestat clearly couldve chosen to save their daughter but picked Louis and Louis is just fine with that, which shows he never ever was close to being a father to Claudia. No father would be okay with that. And then they have the nerve to cry about her as if they didn’t kill her on purpose. Yeah Louis killed her too by not getting her to a hospital and instead literally killing her, then by staying with Lestat when he turned against her and risking her death 24/7, then by not killing Lestat who would obviously survive and kill Claudia, and also by provoking the coven with all the peace in the world while putting all the responsibility on her to hide their lies. I guess he was too busy being a fboy to Armand. Accountability ain’t your strong suit Louis.
Louis also tells Armand that he is nothing but a child SA victim. Which is a never to come back from horrible thing to say to someone. And Armand replies by calling Louis out for his own child abuse (my daughter was my sister was my throwpillow), which Louis is directly morally responsible for (counter to Louis rubbing something in Armands face that he had no control over), and that doesn’t even mention him pimping homeless black girls out.
But apparently everyone can be forgiven except Armand.
Armand is the scapegoat for everything.
So he had the choice to die or do the play. Why is he expected to kill himself for a fboy? Most people would not do that when held at gunpoint and that is called selfpreservation. Lestat is obviously the one who wanted this stage play, who wanted more violence, wanted to torture Louis, while Armand was just the tool. And Armand of course made mistakes too, but his wrongdoings are so tertiary compared to Lestat and Louis.
Louis also only cares about racism and injustice when it happens to HIM and crosses his ego business plans. Black girls can get pimped out. His black daughter can put up with abuse and be quiet and smile. The black community of his town can do his own thing whatever, as long as he has his Claudia pet and his pimp money, all is well and just in his world. He is a study in corruption. The vampirism is a great metaphor for it.
@@Undercovershrinkhere SAY THAT!!!
@ thank you for reading my monologue 😅❤️❤️ Does anyone know stories where immortals do something for human rights, just a little bit? Im confused why I cant find that, would love to read about it
Originally subscribed for the reaction videos, I had no idea you also do video essays! What a treat!
I have some ounce of sympathy for Lestat (especially during the renuinion) but unfortunately for the apologists, I still hold the opinion that he's a terribly toxic person. Toxic people are capable of love, yes, but it doesn't erase them of being toxic towards the people they claim to love.
Lestat haters nation rise!!!
I’ve found my people!!
🙌🏾
Leave my husband alone 😩
if lestat has 10 haters i am one. if lestat has one hater it's me. if lestat has no haters i am dead. if the world is with lestat i am against the world
@alm2587 Real
The genuine brain rot and denial you have to possess to NOT SEE that Lestat is a villainous character is insane. I love his character, but to say that he is not the problem and highly abusive is wild. I avoid this fandom tbh because I was afraid of what the common fan feelings were, and I’m glad I did. Claudia was the GOAT and her death makes me sob every-time.
The only reason I know the sentiments of this fandom is because I went out of my way to look for them for the sake of this video. You are right to stay away.
I think labeling Lestat to be the villain is simplifying him. I will have to bring atleast the first two books in the discourse to give context, because show Lestat's characterization comes from mostly the second book. (the events of what would be s3 for the show, that we obviously haven't seen yet) I personally think a lot of the discourse comes from the fact that show turned up on his villainous traits, while also giving us early some of his later, more sympathetic ones, but it gets very muddy because what we see him do in the first season is unjustifiable, and Lestat himself admits that in the trial. So the way the show frames its characters' actions isn't that morality isn't a thing, of course it is-because the first season leads you to cheer on Louis and Claudia to kill Lestat. But the show is very much character-driven, and what it wants you to do is explore and find cracks into what makes these characters tick, why they are who they are to show you they aren't wholly evil and wholly good. A great example of this is Louis, Louis is our most fleshed out character as of the end of season two, we know his background, his trauma, his love-life, his grief and suicidal ideation, he's a deeply hypocritical character with his own manipulative tendencies, but he's also a deeply loving and forgiving person. We don't have enough on Lestat to label him with that level of detail, but narratively speaking as of the two seasons right now, the show wants you to be conflicted and think there's something deeper going on with him that we haven't seen yet. That's very much highlighted in the reunion, where he's weepy and very pathetic and expressing grief and regret, which is very much the show setting up an exploration of that. Hell, the show even gives Armand sympathy, and he's the one who wrote and directed the trial. I've honestly had my own conflicts on the how the show presented Lestat, as most of his longtime fans have, but the show's writing (and Sam's acting) haven't let me down yet so i'm looking forward to see how they tackle next season.
The problem with trying to find an overarching antagonist for the whole show is that IWTV is very much gothic fiction, and it thrives on being fucked up and getting you conflicted about it. While characters may take an antagonistic role, none of them are the final bad guy with no redeeming traits, because that simply isn't what IWTV as a show is interested in doing. Do I think Lestat is a good guy? Absolutely not, I wouldn't say he is even if I was only speaking on book knowledge. So is he a villain? There's a less straightforward answer to that, Lestat is an anti-hero. And if i'm not mistaken, that's what he has been labeled has for more than 30 years, and that continues to be true for the show.
Thank you for taking the time to gracefully contribute to the conversation.
I will say, there is a reason I pointed out that no matter what he went through, nothing he did to Louis will be justified (as you also say here). I’m holding out on the possibility that there’s something more concerning the trial, but until then, I’ll stick with the opinion that his actions were also unjustifiable in that scenario. I would also like to say there’s a reason I pointed out that there’s levels to all this, and mentioned Louis’ transgressions throughout the video as well. The problem is Louis’ biggest sins are being hypocritical, a pick-me (I say facetiously), and a bad father figure. In comparison, Lestat’s worse sins are dropping Louis from 1000+ feet in the air and participating in Claudia’s death. It’s almost absurd to view the actions of the two and say “See? They’ve both done bad things.” To me, their individual transgressions are incomparable. One’s actions are clearly a lot more villainous than the other’s.
On your point that it is a gothic story-that is understood. Yes, we should expect darkness. But that doesn’t mean we can’t dislike characters for their dark actions while still enjoying a dark show. And while, yes, the show itself may not be interested in finding an overall bad guy-it is up to viewer discretion to contextualize the show in a way that makes sense to them. I can’t remember the exact context, but I was discussing the show with someone and they said “Anne Rice herself said blah blah blah” in defense of Lestat. My response was, “I don’t care what Anne Rice said. I’m my own person with my own opinions.” Once the art is put out there, it no longer just belongs to the artist. It is left to the audience for interpretation.
So I can see why people would say Lestat is an antihero. But to me, he’s a villain. One doesn’t have to be a cartoony, mustache twirling character with no depth to be the villain. I can fully acknowledge his background, some of the “good” he’s done, understand that he’s been through a lot, and STILL call him the villain. Because any GOOD villain has understandable motivations behind their actions. I can understand that he’s a broken soul, and because of that he broke Louis (literally). But I can still see him as the villain for it.
Lestat did not participate in Claudia's death, he was partially responsible (as much as Louis), but he was not there to condemn her. There are lots of scenes that show this and he even said he should be on trial as well for what he's done. We can definitely discuss after S3 revisits this, but Louis going to Lestat after everything is the biggest confirmation for me. @@SaidByTy
@ No, Louis was not AS responsible as Lestat for her death. Lestat was much more responsible for it, as far as we know at this point, by simply being a part of the production and rehearsing it in secret when he knew the end goal was to kill Louis and Claudia. He could have warned them; instead he was a participant and told lie after lie on stage. I don’t even know how you can twist that.
@@SaidByTy that is my point, there are clues in the episode that Lestat's goal by being at the trial wasn't to get Claudia killed. The trial was a play, the outcome was decided and it didn't matter whether he was there or not unfortunately.
There are scenes showing bruises on his wrists, shows him swaying on stage, shows him sleeping in his chair, standing like a marionette with one leg in the air, but I only caught them on rewatch. So I think he was there to try and influence the outcome in favour of Claudia and Louis but he was controlled by the coven during the majority of the time. The little scene of the rehearsal also shows him defending Claudia and lashing out at Armand. He did love her, he didn't want her to die, but we will know the full story next season. I don't want to get into too much detail, since it's a youtube comment, but there are some posts with gifs etc. if you're interested.
Editing to add, I rewatched episode 7 several times, because Sam Reid has said in interviews that he did leave clues in his performance about this. So it's not a fan conspiracy theory.
Both Lestat and Louis are guilty due to neglect that she ended up the victim. They did not do enough to protect her, and even her creation was a selfish act. It's a tragic story but even more so because they actually did love her. They just failed her. Like she said, she's just a roof shingle that flew off of [their] house during their stormy romance. They were both always putting themselves or each other before her, and in the end, this was what made her vulnerable to the coven's manipulations and also Louis to an extent put her in the position to be "an obstacle" to his and Armand's relationship (when in fact, he was just pining after Lestat). He did not defend her, he did not believe her at the end.
@@tsp1850I like your well-rounded and evidence-based comment. While I’m not a Lestat fan by any means, I do remember him appearing injured and under the influence of something during part of the trial.
That said, I’m curious to know how the coven could’ve possibly overpowered him because like the video creator said, Louis was able to kill most of them and Lestat is undoubtedly much stronger than he is. Perhaps we’ll get to know in Season 3.
One thing we can agree on is that Claudia is a severe victim of their terrible actions. However, I’m still inclined to believe that Lestat was much worse than Louis in terms of abuse and neglect because of Claudia’s journal entries that may back up some of Louis’ perspective and the fact that she was willing to brutally kill Lestat and run off with only Louis.
Another thing I don’t buy is Lestat feeling very regretful about Claudia’s killing. From what we saw he barely showed any affection to her and was extremely abusive. That still doesn’t make much sense to me.
Regardless I’m excited for Season 3 to show us more.
I can't find the comment I read under here and I REALLY don't want to get into this whole discourse (purely because it's a bit repetitive and tiring once you've seen it all for 2 years) but about Louis "being able to destroy the coven" while Lestat seemingly couldn't (which means he wasn't 'forced' to do the trial), I find this argument faulty for several reasons:
- Louis was capable of ambushing them while they were *asleep* . He tells Daniel in 2.08 that when a vampire is asleep, he's all but dead to the world and somewhat incapable of even intercepting what may be going on outside his coffin. I'm pretty sure this is why all of Louis, Lestat and Claudia's coffins in the house in New Orleans were hidden behind secret doors, too.
- This brings me to my next point which is that Louis's whole ambushing plan was something he made for several days while he was manic and hallucinating people.... he was practically suicidal by that point and even says "I was going down, and taking as many of them with me as I could". Keep in mind, none of the coven members who survived the first ambush thought it was him (Celeste and Estelle, the ones who were on motorbikes, thought it was another coven that ambushed them). This is because to their knowledge, Louis was still stuck in their cellar either slowly starving to death or having already died. They didn't expect for Armand to have possibly switched the body in the morgue and the time between Armand doing that and then the ambush was a couple of days, so nobody noticed it.
- Lestat's return to Paris on the other hand was already expected by the coven before the trial because they were the ones who called out for him to come, so I don't think he could've ambushed them even if he tried before or after the trial (the after part is another story, but I digress).
I don't know what happened during that time with Lestat, whether he tried to reach Louis or Claudia or just stayed put until the trial was going on, but I think the show deliberately left that part out because only Armand would've known the truth of that in Dubai, and he didn't like Daniel revealing even part of it during the interview. My guess is that we are meant to believe Lestat was never onboard with this trial in the first place (and I mean this specifically because of the 2.08 scene where he argues back with Armand during the rehearsals), but the details of all of that are left blank, possibly for time-related constraints but also to have a thread hanging for further seasons.
It honestly confuses me how people fail to recognize that Anne Rice’s vampires are monsters and that includes their emotionally abusive, detached and domineering nature. I LOOOOOOVE Lestat as a character but he’s a monster. He turned Louis into a monster so he wouldn’t be alone anymore. He turned Claudia into a monster even though he knew better than Louis ever could how awful that would be for her. Sure he has trauma and reasons and waaahhhh but to act like he isn’t a monster is bonkers. Just admit he’s a bad man with a weak heart and revel in how complex that is. The need for a character you like to be morally defendable is a trend these days that utterly confuses me lol let that man be a bad man! You can still like him!
The thing I DESPISE the most about Lestat defenders is they seem to heavily lean on the book as if it explains everything when we are clearly watching a show, a show that has already taken several liberties with the text. They are just as much in the dark as none book readers because the writers have previously changed things to fit the story they want to tell. So there is no point in getting on the internet and writing paragraphs about how Lestat didn't actually want to participate in the sham trial that condemned Claudia to death. You have no idea how the writers are gonna present thing and yall may just end up extremely WRONG and embarrassed.
For instance, between Season 1 and Season 2, there were Lestat apologist arguing that Lestat never dropped Louis out of the sky, that it was all a mind manipulation from Armand, etc. They used all that energy for Lestat defense only for him to basically confirm he dropped Louis out of the sky and that he wanted to punish Louis for not loving him they way HE wanted. So why even jump the gun. Its best to just wait.
It's a show based on books, and thus far, has remained faithful, at least in substance. If Lestat's substance remains consistent between books and show, I promise you're misjudging him. IwtV was Louis' skewed, bitter perspective. And Louis, though I love him, is a whiny, broody, self righteous, myopic little bitch.
Also, dropping Louis from the sky may not have been in the books, but if the person I loved more than anything and gave everything I possibly could to even against my better judgement said the things to me that he said to Lestat, and I was even half as powerful as Lestat, I'd be tempted to drop that mfer from the sky, too.
Thankfully, we're gonna see things from Lestat's perspective in season 3.
lestat stan came for me for saying louis was not problematic for hitting lestat first since louis was the victim and I kid you not one of them said louis was abusive towards lestat. mind you they use the trail as evidence you know the same trail where lestat was acting and literally lied about louis seducing him, and the same trail where he dropped the act and admitted to breaking louis because he couldn't have him? do i belive louis snapped and hit him first and told him how he was going to leave? yes but do i think louis who is an abuse victim had the right to fight his abuser back when said abuser put his hands on their kid? absolutely.
i do think that the way people are die hard defenders of lestat has a racial aspect to it especially the ones that say louis was in the wrong and basically think the trail version of louis and lestat's relationship is what went down.
How do u know Louis didn’t seduce him all u hear is Louis perspective which is going to be bias as already shown he paints himself in a favourable light. Louis is abusive we see him being physically abusive to Claudia and lestat and his brother . As well as emotionally abusive to lestat and armand. He is abusive to say otherwise is a lie this obviously doesn’t change the fact that lestat is also abusive so is armand . The book also shows how manipulative Claudia was I won’t get into the books as it may spoil but there is a lot that isn’t said a lot that doesn’t make sense in the series too u have to rewatch and pay attention. Overall Louis is the main victim clearly.
@ you kinda contradicted yourself at the end. but i will say i do think louis would’ve admitted to seducing lestat if he did that because he owned up to him being part of claudias suffering and abuse. as for your mutual abusive arguement thats not a thing because their abuse stems from the power imbalance, lestat from had more power in that relationship than louis did. he also emotionally and verbally abused louis via the cheating and degrading him when he was missing claudia. louis snapping at lestat isn’t abuse because it a case of a victim fighting back. the mutual abuse only benefits the abuser because it makes it seem like they are equally bad when in reality the abuser aka the one with more power in the relationship does way more damage than the victim fighting back and for a longer time too. again since you do recognize that louis is the victim for you to say he abused lestat is falling into the mutually abusive narrative thats used to discredit the victims suffering. not to be that person but you’re essentially doing to louis what j*hny d*pp did to amber heard.
@IvyJames-ru4vj for some reason you weren’t tagging in my longer reply so this is letting you know i responded with why i think louis didn’t seduce lestat
I'm interested to see how the show is going to manage the tone shift between the first book and the rest of the series without ignoring the severity of the abuse he put claudia and louis through. I really hope louis and lestat re-examine their relationship in season 3 and either find a way to address it (or don't but make it clear just how wrong it is). I would also like for more of the racial undertones of their relationship from season 1 to come back as I would like to see lestat facing his role in that aspect of the events.
They’re gonna forget what they set up just for Louis and lestat to end up together 😂 just watch ( I hope I’m wrong)
@@cornpopisabaddude I also really hope you’re wrong. I would actually love it if they tied the concept of unreliable memory into it and made Louis remember at some point. I feel like lestat might improve as a character, especially after the wake up call that was the murder and the trial, but even then that doesn’t lay the groundwork for a healthy relationship.
"Your two-toned daddies" lol. I wish Lestat would just invest in some deep therapy soo bad 😩💔
your comment section is a perfect example of how them lestat stannies will victim blame louis & claudia instead of accepting their fave is horrible and abusive🤷🤷🤷
Excellent video!.. I wonder if Lestat apologists would have the same views if Louis and Claudia were portrayed as white. Would they still treat Lestat as a victim or the narcissist he actually is?
thanks for being so harsh, this def got some sense back into me after almost falling for his shit😂
All in a day’s work 🫡
Omg i love this video lol.
I dont necessarily hate lestat, i love what he represents in terms of the cycle of abuse and toxic (queer) masculinity but my god his apologists drive me insane.
They’re gonna jump you but you’re right friend!!
Friend, idgaf about these people being mad lmao. I was prepared for this-I WANT the smoke. And the kicker is not one of them have proved me wrong yet. Just a bunch of people who didn’t watch the video in its entirety OR fail to actually comprehend what was said. It’s the most obvious when I get called an “Armand supporter.” That lot has worms for brains lmao.
Armand is just selfish, he took lestats lover at the sight of his freedom because he couldn’t have it and he was ok with killing Claudia cause he wanted Louis for himself. Louis liking Daniel and calling him boring sent him to the point when he tortured Daniel almost to death then washed both him and Louis memories. Nothing he does is justified if he did it all for himself 🤷🏾♀️ he didn’t love Louis he wanted lestats and his freedom and when he couldn’t have that he kept going through people until eventually Louis came, Even at the point were Daniel exposed everything he still tried to keep up the lie because Louis was going to leave him
“Armand is just selfish” as if Lestat isn’t lmao… can’t make this up.
@ when did I say lestat wasn’t?im talking about Armand and him only 🤔 why can’t you have a conversation about Armand without comparing him to lestat
You seem like an Armand apologist
@@gibbei Cause that’s the entire point of the video. I literally say in my video that Armand is more justified in his actions than Lestat, and you’re claiming nothing he does is justified. That’s a direct contradiction to the entire point I’m making. Duh. Plus you’re arguing with me on another thread where someone was defending Lestat, so it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know you’re a Lestat apologist-so why wouldn’t I bring him up when you’re obviously defending him without openly saying it?
The point is is to compare their individual actions within the given contexts. Wanting me to not include Lestat in that conversation is lazy and redundant.
But fine. Armand is terrible. I said as much in the video already. Now what?
@ when did I argue about lestat?I was talking about you taking in the creators own opinion saying it doesn’t matter. You use that rocket science phrase a lot when I can tell you don’t know what youre talking about, the entire point of my comment was how he wasn’t justified instead of hearing that point you bring up lestat🤔 but can’t argue against the fact that everything I said was true
@@gibbei K
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS. youre the only one with a brain FR. i'm not even a lestat hater and i love media with dark, complicated and toxic characters and dynamics. and yet seeing all the defense around Lestat and all that bullsht from his fans was seriously making me keep a kind of rage inside my heart for them and for this fandom that was consuming my love for this show from the inside out.
I honestly don’t even consume content from fans of the show. I went out of my way to find the few posts that I did and…. yeah, I’m good lol
I accidently stumbled on this video. Just wanna say that I full agree and side with you brother. All your points are very well made and understandable.
The thing that was bothering me the most was that how quickly all were so willing to change their mind regarding Louis's POV and trust Lestat like that after ep 7. Like they were waiting for this moment to "gotcha" Louis as the abuser and manipulator and prove Lestat's innocence.
For all this discussion of "unreliable narrator" Lestat fans are so willing to listen to anything that comes out of his mouth even if it was from an orchestrated play and refusing to give Louis and Claudia even a little bit of the benefit of the doubt.
This is why I hate/scared of these vampire shows's fandom because as with most vampire shows the main lead is a white man played by a charismatic and conventionally attractive actor, so whatever horrible thing they do their fandom brushes it off or ignores it or make excuses by saying "oh they have so much trauma in their backstory" , "oh u just misunderstand him" , "This is gothic romance u don't get it" , "All three are equally bad". God the Infantilization and Romanticization of Lestat is too much.
I have seen this same thing happen in multiple vampire shows fandoms. In IWTV u and Olay ma'am are the ones i see calling Lestat the vile white man abuser he is, most are still two siding this dynamic.
I am not a Louis defender i hate him for what he done to Claudia but as you said there are levels. Louis is the victim of Lestat. Claudia is the victim of Louis and Lestat mainly and all the other men.
Louis is just HIM ,he ain't a pick me
He is him, and he is a pick me ☝🏾
As a fan of the books, movie and show, I understand that everyone in this show is messy and toxic to varying degrees. So, I sit back and enjoy the mess and can't wait to see the real Brat Prince in all his glory instead of being painted through another lens lol. All this arguing and name calling these other folks are doing to you is wild af
Sam Reid is very fine and is giving everything in this role, but i thought it was clear that Lestat is literally the white devil 😂
I just learned that he refers to himself as the devil in the books too, something these people lean so heavily on. BUT WHEN I SAY IT-
Thank you for this 🙏🏿 this is soooo cathartic, people talking about Louis like he’s just as bad as Lestat and Armand makes me feel like I’m being gaslit. While he has his flaws and the show operates in shades of grey, Louis was ultimately the VICTIM in both of his romantic relationships. It baffles me how people don’t see how skewed the power dynamic is. ALSO Claudia deserved so much better- her metaphor about being a shackle on their roof comes to mind.
It’s no surprise at all that the only people that see Louis and Claudia clearly are other black people.
I really struggle to engage with the text in this way they're all complex beautiful characters. I'm kinda reminded of a scene from Angle (another show about vampires) Spike and Angle are talking about a girl that was abused and murdered innocent people. Spike: "she's a monster now." Angle: "she's an innocent victim." Spike: "So were we, once." that's the tragedy of vampires.
Angle 📐
@@Lanilola I'm dyslexic, my bad
Just one small point, the first two seasons are Louis's story, this is Lestat through Louis's eyes, not the man himself. If you're asking, but what about Armand, Armand is not exactly trust worthy, you'll see.
What about Claudia and her diaries? We get some of her perspective too, which supports a great deal of Louis’ narration. I do look forward to watching S3 to know more regardless.
what people talking about the books need to realize is that the TV show changes so much about the setting and louis that the fundamentals of their relationship can not possibly allow louis to be the abuser of lestat. louis is a closeted black man in new orleans. that should say enough but there is no world in which the man who comes from france, pretends to not understand the racial dynamics in america but uses them against louis when he can, turns louis into his companion by promising him eternity by his side (having deliberately KILLED his support system so he has no one else to turn to) then cheats on him multiple times, withholds information from louis as he pleases, THAT lestat is the victim. there is no such thing as "mutual abuse" when the victim fights back against their abuser. idgaf what louis does to lestat after that. if you don't agree, then i would ask what justifies lestat's abuse against claudia? was claudia also lestat's abuser? its mind boggling that people don't see the very obvious patterns/behaviors of being an abuse victim in louis but think lestat, the king of murdering daughters, ruining lives, lying, cheating, and having bad bobs in every century he has been alive is the victim.
This video is amazing! Finally someone who feels the same about Lestat.
So does ol girl from Oluranatti Pop! Her video recaps had me hollerin 😂
@@ambriaashley3383 I watched her videos too! Too damn funny 😂 thought about including some clips from her
There are no heros in this show (or in the book series) they are all monsters.
One doesn’t have to be a hero to not be the villain
And we love him for it ❤️
Lestat, ultimately has become a character I enjoyed much more before interacting with analysis in fandom spaces. Like I loved to hate him in the first season (still try to), while clearly seeing his role as an abuser. He's fun, charismatic and Sam Reid is phenomenal and still I was more interested in Louis and Claudia's tale but I get that that's subjective.
I think the most annoying thing hardcore Lestat apologists do is to simply refuse to accept that the show is a completely different medium from the books. While yes, it's an adaption, the fact that Louis and Claudia are black is like. integral to it and imo an aspect you cannot keep out of conversations. Like the fucking show makes several points of it and somehow it frequently gets ignored. Lestat had the most power in the family, point blank. Sure, Louis had emotional power over him but like Lestat had the one of material, race, age and knowledge.
Then the "Louis is an unreliable narrator." God I hate this talking point. Unreliable literally doesn't mean lying all the time and I'd argue that even the show itself is more driving on the "memory is a monster" and "the odyssey of recollection" track than "Louis is trying to paint himself in a good light at ALL times." The worst instance of that is the "episode 7 recontextualizes the fight and makes Louis an abuser???" when all it does is show Louis as an imperfect victim and hammers the point in that Claudia was indeed a bandaid.
Also I am so tired of the Armand vs Lestat fights because these often ignore the literal context of Armand's situation. Like whenever these two get compared - Lestat was an independent, rich, white man who literally came to start a new life. Armand (who's like. not white either I feel like this also gets ignored often??) was a part of a 200 year old slightly cultish coven with strict rules and responsibilities that forced him to act (or like not act lmao bc he's a coward who just tries to desperately hold on to the status quo. Tho I will say his role gets over exaggerated people are NOT willing to discuss the whole mutiny plot + Santiago's actions which clearly had racist undertones as well)
I like Lestat character analysis and I love the show, I just wish when we are seriously discussing it there was more willingness to not mindlessly defend the guy. I also wish the show would have done one or more things differently like maybe show subtle signs of abuse or like. do the whole s2 Loustat reunion differently bc that's actually the one thing i didn't enjoy bc it felt so disconnected to seeing him watch Claudia die on episode prior??
Well this became an essay lmao I'm sorry for yapping, I can only say I think this show is an incredible work of tv and I hope it keeps the standard up. I enjoyed your video very much I WILL keep watching 🙏
He's so fun to watch but that doesn't mean that he isn't toxic, 'cause that queen is very chaotic.
lestat be my fav character of the show and i agree with all of your statements 😭😭😭
I just KNOW Olurnatti will have this in her algorithm SOMEHOW😂😂😂
I hope so, I loved her dragging Lestat 😂😂😂
@@SaidByTyreading the title and clicking on this video- she was the FIRST thing I thought of!!😂
@@OGseoulite Well, she’s confirmed to me that she watched at least some of it a few days ago, so a win is a win!
@@SaidByTy AYYYYE! That’s so cool! I love when creators watch each others videos, that’s awesome👐🏽💗
@@SaidByTy great job with your video! I subscribed and watched a few others of yours🧚🏽♀️
Ill get off the lestat train when Louie does too
To say this in the absolute least spoiler way possible.... the reasons why book fans are quick to defend Lestat is kinda similar to why someone might defend Louis for killing the alderman in such a viciously slow and brutal manner(because the alderman was a racist arsehole)-Louis might say that Lestat killed someone for absolutely zero reason or for some not-justifiable reason[ because Louis can't read Lestat's mind and doesn't actually know why Lestat does anything or not and can often assume or deduce 'why' incorrectly] but Lestat will say that he had reasons or was completely justifiably provoked[ simply unbeknownst to Louis], and so on.
Even though we haven't seen yet whether or not the tv series will do the same, book readers either presume or intensely hope the tv series is going to.
But you're not wrong, until we actually see future seasons, it's currently impossible to really debate/discuss whether or not tv!Lestat is actually remotely defensible at all or not-and even in the books, different readers can have very different opinions about just how sympathetic or understandable or justified Lestat's reasons/actions actually are or not and why/why-not. Unfortunately, some people do seem to think everything is as simple as just saying that everything is totally okay and forgiven so long as he was hit or insulted or having a rough time or in a somehow vulnerable place first.....and that is a real shame and disservice to the writing/story/characters/etcetera of both the books and the tv show, I think.
I hear your point but people who also come for Lestat may be judging the show as its own entity. The show obviously took a LOT of creative liberties so it’s fair to distinguish book Lestat from TV Lestat. The fans also tend to perform some crazy mental gymnastics to make these excuses for ONLY Lestat while people who lean towards Louis (like me) are still very willing to call him out for his own bullshit. I do look forward to season 3 regardless.
@@pulse_rate Don't get me wrong, I wasn't trying to say that people weren't fully entitled to come after Lestat. I am well aware that many people have either never read the books or think of the tv series as a separate thing completely. I think that is all totally fine. I was just saying that a lot of the people who defend him AREN'T people who have only seen the tv series, and aren't people who see the two versions as completely distinct/separate things, so it's not really the TV version of him by itself that they are defending-and it actually does make a little more sense for them to defend the book version of him(especially depending on which books exactly they have or haven't read) than it makes to defend him just from his tv series version alone thus far. Especially when you consider that he is the POV protagonist for a majority of those books, and fictional Main Characters are often specifically designed to make the audience understand and sympathize with or root for that character typically above any other character so that the audience will stay invested in the story from start to finish and actually want the MC to survive or whatever in the end. Not to mention the way that people can be biased just by familiarity alone, or just by whichever character they spend the most time reading and get to know the most in-depth or whatnot. (But like I said-yes, unfortunately, there are some that take it too far sometimes and justify things that aren't even meant to be justified or such. I was just saying, I don't think the mental gymnastics are always as crazy through that lens as they can seem to be from outside that lens. Even though, yes, sometimes they really just are that crazy; I've been side-eyeing the craziest ones for decades by now, and that's not even being hyperbolic, I mean that quite literally. I just meant that not every Lestat defender is necessarily always automatically one of those just because they are a Lestat defender at all, and that was all. 🙂 Lol)
Before even clicking this video I thought to myself 'I imagine they dont take much issue with Armand' and without fail you dont and that's why I cant take Lestat 'haters' who think explaining his decisions = justifying it, seriously.
Whelp as Jacob and Sam have already established they are it for each other and endgame and are monsters who do evil shit so I will have fun in the future watching their romance as they battle with the nature of their existence but idk that you will.
Hmmm, the fact that I actually call Armand disgusting doesn’t matter then? You types are quite selective.
Also idgaf what the actors say lmao. I’m an adult who thinks for myself. Can you relate?
Do you people have your own opinions or does it all have to be directly reinforced by actors lol
Actually to add onto this, since you guys want to act obtuse and annoying, Sam also said that this is ultimately a story about being a better monster. Ergo, Lestats abusive behavior has legitimate consequences on his relationships and who he is as a character. His arc is about being a better vampire lover to Louis.
Claudia didnt deserve none of the b.s. all she did was ride hard for her people
Stop calling Louis a Pick Me he’s not! It’s not his fault he’s gorgeous & crazy older vampires are attracted to him 😂😂
Louis definitely is a pick me, and I say that as someone who likes him 😭 😂
like not too much on him lol
Yall need to be fr 😂 love him but the truth must be told
Looking at Louis is something to behold. He is incredibly beautiful!! A smile that will make your heart burst!!!❤❤❤
I understand Lestat's love for Louis. 😍
I love this version of Louis but he is a bonfide, 100%, total and complete pick me.
I LOVE YOUR TAKE!!! Omg subscribing and turning on notifications IMMEDIATELY!!!
REAL
Me too. Justice for Claudia.
I like Lestat's POV in the books, but even there the character is impossible and borderline unlikeable to me. But the AMC version made this mf worse. I think they went a bit off character too.
Book Lestat is impossible because he is selfish and impulsive. He does things, often abusive things, because he's curious or because he wants it. He wants to turn people into vampires, try being human again, become a rockstar, reveal every secret because he's excited and enjoying it (Which arguably makes the character worse. Even Louis gets shocked by how he seems to play with his victims.). His laughing fits are a reocurring character trait.
But the AMC Lestat constantly has a face like he smelled shit. He's doing things out of disdain, like killing that tenor because he didn't sing well enough for him. Book Lestat wouldn't do that. He always has something positive to say about humans, or he is neutral about them. He's open minded, humourous, dramatic and often cheerful in an unhinged way, but not arrogant, scornful or condescending like the AMC version made him to be. In the books, his excitement and curiosity for new things both drive him towards his maniac abusive behaviour AND make the character likeable to many people, while also justifying why he lasts so many years as a vampire.
Anyways, at least that's my read on the character.
However, Lestat is definitely portrayed as more of a villain in the first book of the series (Interview with the Vampire, which is what seasons one and two adapted), than in the subsequent books. So if season 3 dives into The Vampire Lestat, it MIGHT be possible that they will bring new facets to the character, but I'm not too hopeful about it.
People are right to hate him but if you are genuinely upset by him and are against seeing him as a sympathetic villain then I would genuinely recommend letting the show go because that is frankly the future of the series. I think they will definitely question and hold him accountable for his actions but unless you love to hate him I would not hold your breath for him to be fully vilified.
I’m always on team Louis but the arch of the series is about humanizing monstrous characters. If you aren’t on board for engaging in a show like that it’s probably best for you to give season 3 a chance if you want to see how they end up reckoning with his past but otherwise it will not be the show for you
There seems to be a sentiment (not just from you) that because I’m not willing to absolve him of his wrong doings, that I can’t enjoy the show if he’s central to it. This is not the case. I said in the beginning that he is fundamental and needs to be around for as long as the show lasts. He’s charismatic and entertaining. I literally don’t want him to go anywhere lmao.
Oh man, I was actually typing out my reaction and response and just notes and comments, as I watched and listened. But when I realized I was legitimately 5 paragraphs deep, and still not even 50% through the video, I backspaced it all. I want to discuss and talk about this show and these characters so bad, and love videos like these... where people just discuss their opinions and thoughts, and don't let delusional people in this fandom stop them from saying what they want to say. I really want to engage. But I'm a bit too passionate about this world and these characters (namely Louis), and I tend to rant and ramble WAY TOO MUCH. So I'll shorten it all the way down to this:
I applaud you and appreciate that you took the time to make this video and put it out there, I'm definitely watching the next one as well. And while I do love Lestat as a character (coming from the books) I'm a Louis fan, through and through. So there are many things I agree with you on, for both characters. But some I disagree with you on, especially with how you speak about Louis. There's alot of Louis' character you seem to just not be taking into consideration at all, when characterizing him and his choices and actions. There's alot of victimization of him, trauma, trauma response, shock response, CPTSD, mental illness and mental disorders as a result of complex trauma and abuse. That seems to be just overlooked and disregarded, or maybe just not considered or understood. When referring to and/or talking about Louis. So the way you watered down and simplified his character, to things like "a pick me", etc. Was upsetting, I wont lie. But you've also said some hard truths about Louis that I personally am thankful people are speaking about and pointing out. I'm still not finished with the video, but I just wanted to say thankyou for sharing your opinion and opening this discussion, with some of the harder topics about these characters. Especially Lestat. Because it's rather unfortunate and honestly annoying, that there are many people in this fandom that don't have the maturity or grace to allow people to just have their own opinion. To share the fandom space. They literally troll and bully and straight up harass people just for opinions they don't agree with, to the point that people feel like they can't even have discussions, or opinions at all. It's disappointing, rather disheartening, and at times actually disgusting. To be apart of this fandom, with people like that.
So again, sorry for still managing to ramble. But while I don't agree with every little thing said here, you did make multiple good points and said multiple things that I think more people should say and feel free to say. And I appreciate and thank you for the video. I hope, that more people are able to put out content like this, about this series and these characters, because at the end of the day it just shows how engaged people are with it. And that is ALWAYS a beautiful thing, to me.
Thanks for watching!
To your point on Louis: I don’t go over the psychology of any of the characters, because that’s not the point of the video. This video is a direct response to people saying Louis and Claudia are worse, or on the same level as Lestat. So I simply go over the characters’ actions to prove otherwise. I could dissect their psychology and recognize their individual traumas all day-that won’t take away from the fact that I think Louis is a pick-me. In fact, that trauma contributes to him being a pick-me. But again, this video isn’t about character psychology. It’s about character action. And it’s done so in a more entertaining/comedic manner on purpose because this isn’t meant to be a deep character analysis. Hence him being reduced to a pick-me.
Hope that clears it up!
@SaidByTy I figured as much, I didn't watch the video expecting any sort of deep analysis, so didn't mean it to be some sort of complaint. Just a personal reaction to how some things were said. I'll definitely be back for whatever videos you upload on the series. My current obsession and I love listening to other opinions on the show and characters. Especially from people who aren't afraid to say exactly what they want to 😉👌🏽
Well, i felt the same way when I read the books. You hate him and then sympathize with him and love him and hate him. He takes you through a myriad of emotions. A roller coaster if you will.
I wonder how the amc crew will adapt Memnoch the devil if they make it that far
Babe you got twitter in a swirl. So people are missing the plot. 🤷🏾♂️ I still support!
Ooh forreal? Who posted about it? I don’t be over there, they can stay pressed all they want. I knew the new influx of comments was weird 😂
@@SaidByTy oh yeahh, a Lestat apologist posted your video like a day or 2 ago (basically mocking the video) & the Lestat army came in FULL FORCE retweeting and liking the post 1000s of times, smdh…it was all over my twt feed. They were losing their MINDS and being rude & condescending about your Lestat takes (basically proving a lot of your points about them). Anyway I loved your video and agree with u 100%!
DONT LET THEM SILENCE YOU
That can’t!!
Justice for Claudia and lowkey justice for Armond's reputation.
Arguably, the man only has one honest bone in his body, and I can't see him wasting it on someone he just met who was clearly ready to leave him at a moment's notice. He is one of the most interesting and consistent characters in the show. The majority of his motivations and actions make sense, so much so that we don't even need his backstory to understand. I would also like to point out that Armond was never Claudia's parent and was never connected to her in that way. He was the foreign lover of an American divorcee who moved overseas with his adult child after a messy divorce. I think she was in her 30s when they met, and it makes no sense to hold him to the same standards as Lestat who helped care for her, on and off for 2 decades, throughout most of her formative years and then some. Armond knew of her for less than 2 years max and they were never close. For most of the show he mainly just knows her as his literal subordinate for however many months she's at the theatre and he hardly sees her at all outside of work. The worst things Armond did were being selfishly, horrendously down bad for a literal flashy American and refusing to pivot.
Say it again, I don’t think the APOLOGISTS heard you 🗣️💯
this is satire right cause this is complete stupidity
@@nothingbutintroverted4372 explain yourself
He didn’t have to care about her but what justifies him murdering her so he could have Louis to himself? Because that’s basically what he did. He used his power to strong arm Louis into a relationship he wasn’t really after in return for keeping their secret from the coven. And then when the truth came out anyway he proved just how fickle and useless his protection was by allowing the coven to essentially lynch Claudia and Louis.
The only justice Armand deserves is a guillotine.
Oh, no need to defend Armand if we want justice for Claudia! He was her leader, he WAS responsible for her too. He forced to her to perform in a degrading play for years that took a mental toll on her and forbid her from having friends, and also participated and helped plan her torture and murder. He's supposed to be one of the most powerful vampires alive as well and could have easily stopped it. We can hate both Lestat and Armand, one can do both.
Lestat is my favorite character for the exact reasons you made this video. i love how evil he is. i love him and louis together because of how messy and toxic they are. this show knows what is interesting. and yeah, the only thing ill ever defend Lestat for is being hot and a diva
But see, this I can respect. You can be the “I love to hate him type” or you can just enjoy his general shenanigans. I have no problem with that. I enjoy his presence within the narrative, even though he pisses me off. But what I can’t take is the justifying of his actions. That’s what inspired the video.
I've read the books, watched the movies, day-dreamed fanfics, and watched some of this tv show. I came back with the conclusion that both Lestat and Louis are narcissists. Lestat is your typical extroverted narc and Louis is your closet narc. It makes sense that they attracted each-other.
Louis is not innocent in all this, Like the guy pimps out women from his own community. A vampire to his own people before meeting his undeath.
That term does not apply to Louis. Being selfish is not the same as being a narcissist.
LMAO YAAS. Well, i mean i dont necessarily agree with all your conclusions but i do enjoy watching people drag Lestat simply because his stans are absolutely insufferable. I havent read the books (probably won't, if I'm honest) but supposedly there's perspective and nuance we're supposed to get which im hoping will clear some things up; not necessarily because I care so much about seeing Lestat redeemed or anything like that (he isnt even my favorite character, Claudia is) but because I just think it'll be better for the story in general.
I do disagree with you and Olay's assessment that Louis is a pick me. I think he's a guilt-ridden, extremely closeted, chronically depressed and most likely schizophrenic (like his brother) rich boy who is too much like his mean momma. He may have the eye for business and fashion and knows how to make money, but baby when it comes to common sense? There's simply no noggin in that pretty little head of his. Like Olurinatti said, Louis turns dumb whenever some dick come around. All the horrible things these centuries old monsters will do for him. Face card never declines and the bussy must be immaculate.
Not immaculate bussy 💀
But I’d actually say all those things you listed about him are the very factors that contribute to him being a pick me. That, and he himself said he worshipped Lestat and was afraid of disappointing him.
Idk friend….
you consume gothic midia so ethically babe
Uh oh, more of the “turn off your brain when watching gothic media” crowd.
@@SaidByTyI'm obsessed with the crowd of people who unironically don't believe you should examine the flaws of gothic characters. Very funny and very concerning at the same time.
OMG FINALLY SOMEONE WITH SENSE!!! I was going crazy seeing all the Lestat lovers and defenders. The fact that people can brush off the abuse and the power Lestat has over Louis and Claudia from being a white man and also was their maker is absolutely bonkers. "Vampire morality is different" ok so trapping Louis and Claudia through emotional manipulation and coercion is ok, got it. He is a great villain, but that's what he is: a villain. Louis and Claudia are vampires too and while Louis has his abusive tendencies (only toward Claudia anyway) they aren't straight up villains, they are morally grey characters who did not choose their fate and you want the best for them in the end because at the end of the day they were victims of Lestat. Yes Claudia was also a victim of Louis but that does not change the fact that it's Lestat who had the power over them at the end of the day. People are allowed to like vampires in media for their monstrous qualities, but that's not what Lestat fans do. They might acknowledge his actions, but they will justify them in a way that will make him seem like a perfect little angel. Yes it's important to understand how Lester's trauma and vampiric nature turned him into the evil menace he was when he met Louis, but nothing he went through can justify being straight up sinister like that.
Also, I have not watched season 2 because I don't know where to watch it, but I am really dreading the Lestat "redemption arc". He is the villain he can't be redeemed. No amount of charm or trauma can make me stop hating this man
Yes to all of this! If you have prime video, you can do a free AMC+ subscription for a week and just binge it.
It's not a redemption arc, per say. I think season 2 does a great job of asking the question - can someone like Lestat really change? Especially when you have hundreds of years to love is it possible to learn from your action and do better?
Am convinced this show and even the books was written with every character except Claudia to be both good and bad, I don't like lestat but I would completely put him in the villain box
YES! I am a Lestat hater to the end!
But his fans are even worse, they justify aßuse and victim blame just to defend their attraction to him.
You can absolutely think he's hot and enjoy his character well also acknowledging that he is a violent aßuser.
Any redemption he could have had ended for me in the scene where he finds Claudia on the train.
The shit he said to her was some of the most f*cked up shit I've ever heard.
YES! Like I said, I enjoy his presence in terms of what he adds to the show, but as an individual I can’t stand his ass. Him dropping Louis was insane.
@SaidByTy he's a great villain!
TERRIBLE person.
@ I wish more people would acknowledge that. But I guess if they did this video wouldn’t exist, so let ‘em be delusional. Makes for great content 😂
@SaidByTy lmao life is pain
Thank you for making this video- coming out of Season 2 I saw even Lestat haters/Claudia defenders become Lestat and Loustat-pilled, Claudia merely a "bittersweet death" meant to bring Lestat and Louis closure through their shared grief. Lestat is excused for all his crimes and is actually good for Louis, because they can now blame everything on Armand, including any wrongdoing Louis himself did towards Claudia.
exactly. this needed to be said
It’s really unfortunate. What kinda lit my fire even more to make this video was watching a reactor say Armand is worse than Lestat (which I obviously disagree with at this point in time), and they said the trial made them look at the fight between Lestat and Louis differently. I had to get this out ASAP. This was therapy for me 😭💀
@@SaidByTy (sorry for the upcoming rant)The additional fight scene literally did not change anything for me and it's telling if it did for some people. It was obviously there to show how Louis as an abuse victim, even when he does fight back and protect his daughter (which fans get on his case about), does nothing because at the end of the day, Lestat holds all the cards. Anytime he holds back it's to feign helplessness and make Louis feel guilty enough to back off into submission, much like Armand also does when he gets into a relationship with Louis. Also, you can't tell me the trial was deliberately scripted to make Louis seem deranged and malicious. His rant about the lions feels off. It SHOULD feel off. The trial is there to make Lestat look better and get Louis and Claudia killed! Santiago the Obvious Evil Vampire going on about, "we're monsters not humans!" feels like a deliberate jab at the audience defending Lestat post 1x05.
I personally don't think Armand or Lestat are the more evil one, just a different kind of evil, but yeah it doesn't escape my notice that Lestat, a white man, gets all the grace in the world with people remaining open-minded with him, while people were out since the Season 1 finale assuming the worst about Armand. Armand deserves all the flack and then some, but being used as a scapegoat to prop Lestat up? I hate it. Some of the writing choices in Season 2 definitely didn't help either.
I'm glad making this video helped you though! :)
Anyone who holds this opinion has never read the books, and it shows. IwtV is a biased retelling of a story half remembered, from Louis' perspective. You haven't even met Lestat yet.
Are we discussing a show or are we discussing a book? The book is irrelevant.
@SaidByTy How is the book irrelevant when the show is based on the book and has been pretty much faithful to the source material? It's not irrelevant at all.
@ Faithful? Louis being black and dealing with oppression and racism? Claudia being 14? Lestat dropping Louis from the sky? None of that existed in the books. ESPECIALLY Lestat dropping Louis, which is a big reason why this video was created. That only happens in the show. So yes-the books are irrelevant. You can’t make a comment about someone never reading the books when one of the major events being discussed doesn’t even happen in the books. It’s redundant and nonsensical to bring the books into this conversation.
@SaidByTy Yes, they changed some details, but it's faithful (so far) to the overarching story and the characters within it. An adaptation can be faithful in substance and overarching plot without copying every detail. And if this show stays faithful in substance, the audience hasn't really met Lestat yet, and he's certainly more nuanced than Louis, or this video, implies.
It's never nonsensical to bring up source material when discussing an adaptation. That's just silly.
@ It is in this case. Because, again, a huge reason this video exists is because Lestat dropped Louis from the sky on the show. This doesn’t happen in the books. Period. It’s ludicrous (and even unfair) to use the books as a crutch, and point them out as if they’re some prerequisite to watching a series, when a major event that contributes to my disliking of a character doesn’t even occur in the books that you’re so insistent on referencing. THAT’S silly.
And as for the whole unreliable narrator motif you people also like to use as a crutch-that was already addressed in the very beginning of the video.
I made a follow up to this video addressing some of the backlash, and the book readers, like yourself, were part of what I addressed. If you care to, you can check out that video linked here and watch from 1:58 - 4:34 to see where I stand on this matter as a whole. Otherwise, we will simply disagree:
th-cam.com/video/xfcekPE_10U/w-d-xo.htmlsi=1JMY0P2N-xMJOUDM
Just brushed right over that "Louis pulls a knife on his brother", I noticed...
Yeah how dare Mama Du Lac think that her son could possibly kill her other son??! Uhhh... I wonder with that temper growing up how many times he threatened to kill his own brother in front of his mother.
@@marymarston1578 never thought about that. Hmmm... Wonder what his Dad was like that it seemed like a reasonable thing to do. I know it didn't HAVE TO BE his Dad, but can't you picture a childhood for Louis where his Dad handled such "problems" with his sons (and maybe his wife, too,) in a similar manner? And Mom looked on and watched her son growing into that same mindset ...
Weird, I replied and it disappeared.
I never thought of that!
Imagine a situation where Louis' Dad handled "problems" with his sons, maybe his wife, the same way. And his mother watched her husband's abusive behavior, and then watched Louis slowly becoming the same man.
Probably cause it’s irrelevant to analyzing the interpersonal relationships between vampires-which is what the video is about. But even if that’s included, Lestat’s still a worse piece of shit. There are levels, as stated in the beginning of the video :)
@aweirdtimeinmylifewe have no canonical proof that father du lac was abusive, or that Louis regularly threatens his brother. It was a performance for Louis to save face.
We do, however, have proof that much of Lestats behavior is directly a result of his canonically abusive father and the abuse he suffered by the hands of his maker. In fact he often shamefully compares himself to either his biological father or his vampiric father Magnus
Great video 🎉
Okay i will go out on a limb and defend the reunion.
A lot of people are weird about that moment, which i understand, but i think it was entirely for louis benefit and necessary so that he could move on with his life.
I don’t take issue with the fact that a reunion happened. My main issue is Louis absolving Lestat of the role he played in Claudia’s death and taking all the blame himself. And the whole “I made it hard for you” as if he didn’t have plenty reason to. I believe there is a world in which a reunion happening for closure purposes is much more effective, but as it stands it just feels like Louis is allowing his ab*ser to get away with everything.
@@SaidByTy yeah I can see that.
In terms of Claudia's death - I mean obviously, neither of them wanted her to die. But Louis is right that he was the one who begged for her to be turned, which ultimately is what lead to Claudia's tragic unlife.
I definitely think I would have changed some dialogue but overall I like the sentiment of that scene - this is ultimately not about who gets blamed for what. This isn't about Louis raging out against Lestat again and starting another one of their famous arguments, this is two estranged parents putting aside differences to grieve their daughter.
@@Yiningwu5622 Even if Louis begged for it, Lestat did not HAVE TO DO IT. The power imbalance between Lestat and Louis is massive. I need people to understand this. Lestat kill and turn Claudia because of his toxic desire to keep Louis even when Louis doesn't want to be kept. A fear of being alone just doesn't justify all of this. Everyone fears being alone. Maybe Lestat should not have put all his eggs in one basket, choosing to be with a closeted Black man in the Jim Crowe south that wanted to kill himself.
@@fizzychizzy I totally agree. Lestat does not get enough blame from the fandom for how selfish his love for Louis is.
I'm saying that this is about Claudia and Louis. Louis needs to feel the full guilt of his failures towards Claudia. And Lestat, as Claudia's parent, is part of that. Remember Lestat is the only living being who has ever seen Claudia in the blood, who lived with her for decades and raised her from the age of 14. He carries memories of her just like Louis does.
Anyways you'd be surprised at how many estranged parents put aside all of their bullshit when they lose their child. I think Louis saying that he is companion enough for himself is plenty evidence that the goal is not to save Lestat poor, innocent little soul but to give Louis the closure he needs
@@fizzychizzy No, Lestat did not have to do it....but how would Louis have felt about it[ or about Lestat] IF Lestat had *NOT* done it? Lestat did it _because_ Louis asked him to do it, because even after Lestat tried to explain to Louis why Lestat didn't want to do it, Louis still insisted that Louis didn't care and still wanted Lestat to do it anyway and also promised Lestat the one thing Lestat wanted most as a condition/reward of doing so for Louis. It doesn't necessarily justify it, but it does explain why it happened in potentially different light-whether Louis was doing it intentionally or not, Louis was taking advantage of Lestat's vulnerabilities and fears/desires in that moment and using them to get what Louis wanted when Lestat might/would not have otherwise given it to Louis. (Although, yes, Lestat was arguably also doing the same-knowing that doing this thing would get what Lestat wanted out of Louis too, when Louis would not have otherwise given that to Lestat either.)
Coven in this show is just code for gang
Im a lestat fan so this is going to be exciting
You just need to leave the fandom and drop the show because Lestat is THE only MAIN character in the book series and will be THE MAIN character in the show
you won't survive that
I’m not in the fandom. I’m a grown man who enjoys a TV show and had thoughts about it. I’ll be fine, trust me.
@SaidByTy > I'm a grown man
> shoots an hour long hate video
🤣🤣
@@roantt4037 What’s the correlation? Grown men don’t make TH-cam videos? Try again lmao.
@@SaidByTy you're so pathetic, but you don't even realize how much
@@roantt4037 Awww, is the little Lestat dickrider upset because not everyone rides his dick?
If you weren’t so slow, you’d have picked up in the very beginning that I very clearly state that Lestat needs to stick around because he’s entertaining and charismatic. He’s important to the show. Me disliking his qualities and calling out you losers for defending him doesn’t change that. So stop whining because not everyone drools over your white daddy, okay? That’s the only pathetic thing here.
Get over it.
i feel for all of the vamps....but that man is a monster again he abused both claudia AND louis...mentally damaged louis so he could force him into becoming his immortal companion.. like how in the world did someone watch all of lestats actions and go "ya know what lestat was right" like EXCUSE ME
Loved your perspective on this. You're not wrong. He's called a brat prince in tue books for a reason. Hell, Akasha herself - an evil Vampire Queen - wanted a piece, thinking homie was still on demon time as well, which is valid considering what we know so far and what's possible to come.
Definitely subscribing 😂
IMHO A lot of people think Lestat went into the trial wanting to save both Louis and Claudia but that’s not true at all. I think he went there wanting to save Louis and see Claudia die. I think his own feelings and regret for Claudia’s death is a direct result of how she looked at him like a child as she died, which is the reason Lestat goes to Magnus’ lair, right where the “disappointments” would go. Lestat himself says he wanted to understand why he did what he did and Louis explicitly articulates the implications behind such vague statement by saying he meant why he was pet of a play that killed his daughter. Lestat was hit with the fact that Claudia did care about him and he failed her in every possible level from his emotional abuse to the fact he participated in her death sentence. Not only that, we see through Madeleine and Louis that vampires can feel the emotions of their creators and possibly viceversa. So I would not be surprised Lestat would be hit with Claudia’s agony and all of the complex feelings she had about Lestat as she died. We clearly see that despite Claudia seeing him as a parental figure this never got in the way of her calling him out for his bs and wanting to free herself from his abuse.
Lestat only opens his eyes to his horrible behavior just when Claudia dies. It’s horrible it takes the death of a black femme vampire for this yt man to have some character growth but would hardly say I’m surprised.
Also Louis was the enabler parent and definitely facilitated a lot of her abuse. To me his arc is about realizing his pick me tendencies, his religious guilt, his hypocrisy, and him failing to prioritize Claudia. It is an acceptance that he was not a perfect victim but instead one that committed flaws and had more agency in certain situations, especially when it relates to how he treated Claudia. At the end he says yes to himself, even the darkest parts of him. But on Lestat and Louis’ relationship Louis is absolutely the victim. A part of me still hates their reunion sm though I can appreciate the feelings behind them after so many rewatches
Both Jacob Anderson and Sam Ried have both said that they fully believe that Lestat went into the trial with the intention of saving them both, I believe. While the actors’ interpretations aren’t the end all be all, I do think that they have a very good understanding of their characters and their motivations, so I’m choosing to believe them.
(Also, just want to make it clear that I don’t want to offend you in any way. I just wanted to add this just in case since not everyone obsessively watches interviews and other similar content the way I do, lol. Your opinion is still very valid!)
@@HP-io2qu The problem is I’m pretty sure Jacob Anderson has also said he wants Louis and Lestat to be together. I’m sure you can conclude how I’d feel about that based on the video lol. So correct, definitely not the end all be all.
@@SaidByTy Fair enough! I may just be a bit biased myself too, tbh.
As a long time reader of the books and a huge fan of Lestat, he's awful and that's what hakes him fun. He is an awful person doing awful things then justifying himself and I like that. It has always been the appeal for most people and in my experiance still is. Some times you just want to see a villian get up to some shit
I’ll save you all the trouble of watching this biased a$$ video. He recaps every single ep in s1 and glosses over some eps in s2. He thinks of Lestat as an irredeemable evil, blames him for the trial, thinks Armand’s actions were less heinous than Lestat’s.
The rationale of calling the video biased as if the very nature of sharing opinions isn’t biased… slow bunch.
But you’re actually spot on. Everything is accurate here.
stop watching the show if you refuse to understand it bro
@@SaidByTysweetheart there point is what actually was the point lol you literally did nothing with this video you lack the ability to have a nuanced thought you attempted to absolved armand the person who murder claudia and was going to murder louis which makes you not just biased but a complete hypocrite this video is actually trash that you spent time on apparently not having anything better to do it’s weird how intensely you are trying to defend the lots of nothing you said here
@ No more words for you except these: th-cam.com/video/xfcekPE_10U/w-d-xo.htmlsi=2RgpfrwjsTfrL7T_
@@l.b.r2134 Oooh, I’m glad you said that! This video is PERFECT for you: th-cam.com/video/xfcekPE_10U/w-d-xo.htmlsi=2RgpfrwjsTfrL7T_
I love lestat and they all have good and bad and i dig lestats relationship lestat does love him shows it wrong sometimes but the love is there and louis agreed to be his life partner
I jumped around in the video to see if u had any takes that i havent seen....and for a Lestat hater, i feel like u need to read more analysis of the characters, because what u said its all kind of obvious. Yea yea, theres ppl who love Lestat and cant see this, but theres also way more interesting takes on why Lestat is awful out there. Also, comparing him to Armand giving the last one more grace when the dude did a whole lynching? weird
Clearly the reasons aren’t that obvious because some of this weird ass fandom are still arguing against the “obvious” points being made in the comments.
Speaking of comments, yours is a strange one; what other reason would there be to dislike a character outside of their behavior? You’re reaching.
And for someone who only jumped around the video, it’s very obvious that you only jumped around. I’ll never wrap my head around why yall are more upset at the random stepdaddy than the father who participated in his daughter’s death. THAT’S weird.
@SaidByTy i literally told u ur way of critizing lestat is a very superficial one and ive seen better & deeper analysis on his awful behavior, why that makes u mad?
the fact is that even if you dont want to, lestat was obligated into it. The books say so, the writing seems to go that way, and the actors have talked about it. If you want to not see that, then dont see the future seasons. The thing is: you can still hate and critize Lestat even with that. But making excuses for Armand, just to make Lestat the villan (for season 2 especially) after all the abuse & gaslighting, lynching, lying, tortuting, brainwashing stuff....is a weird thing. You DONT HAVE to compare them, dont have to make one better than the other. But you choose to do it. Thats weird.
@@sbs19982 Everything you wrote was made invalid the moment you said “the books say so.” Are we talking about a book or a SHOW? Has that been revealed IN THE SHOW? If not, why would you expect viewers to magically know that if they haven’t read the books and don’t care to? A better question: why are you conflating the book and the show in the first place, as if they’re not two entirely different stories? Does Lestat drop Louis from the sky in the books? No. Is Louis black in the books? No. Is Claudia 14 in the books? No. So the books don’t matter when discussing the show, especially if you’re talking about something that isn’t even revealed yet. Period. You don’t know what other major changes they’ll make. Relying on the books as a crutch is lazy. Yall need to get that through your heads, and quickly.
@SaidByTy I love how you keep bringing up this random stepdaddy thing and then conveniently skip over the 70 years of gaslighting and memory manipulation he put Louis through💀💀💀 did he have no ties with him even then?
@@SaidByTy idk man, i noticed something weird w lestat in the trail, when he wasnt talking he was barely there, almost not being able to stand, kind of passing out. Thats a thing, even Sam Reid (Lestats actor) talked about it. And you could see his face was way more tired in the "real memory" of him saving Louis than the version of him from the rest of the trail. At the moment, i said "uh, weird" but knowing the writing in this show, i knew it was very intentional. when someone talked abt it about the books i was like "ohhh, yeah, makes sense". The whole fandom took notice of it. there's interviews where they speak on it, saying we are gonna get more of an explanation of lestats involvememt in future seasons. I guess for casual views this is gonna be a surprise, but for people who pay more attention this is a known little detail.
you made an hour long video and cant pay attention to details of the character u want to critize? dont be mad at facts, bro lmao
In the books I like Lestat cause, actually he doesn't transforme Louis out of nothing, he makes Louis help him killed a guy first, later he transformed him but is true that he always keeps secrets.
Another reason why I like him more is that there is not Antoinette, so he didn't cheat on him, also Louis is white 😅
But Claudia!! even if she was originally 5 yo, she is my girl, my precious girl who was the real victim of these 2.
There’s one little thing that you are forgetting. Louie is revealed to be an unreliable narrator in the second book of the vampire chronicles. In the book the vampire Lestat he spends the first few pages setting the record straight about what happened during the events of the first book! (Claudia was 15 or 16 when he turned her so by their standards of the time she would have been considered an adult, lestat only targets murderers, and he had less than nothing to do with the events that happened in the vampire theater because he could barely stand much less actually do anything to help Louie and Claudia, he was forced to tell the vampires at the theater what happened because he needed refuge and blood! Just to name a few.) so it’s pretty safe to say that Louie might not be telling the whole truth yet again! (I mean in the first episode of the show the author called Louie out on some inconsistencies in his story between what he said during the first interview and what he’s saying now.)
I didn’t forget he’s an unreliable narrator. I touch on perspectives and what’s true/not true at the very beginning of the video.
@@SaidByTy I’m just pointing out that if and when we get Lestats perspective the story might be very different indeed and with Armand hypnotizing Louie it could definitely impact his perspective on events. I’m not saying the events described in the interview aren’t terrible (because they are) I’m just pointing out that Louie has a habit of demonizing lestat and with Armand hypnotizing him things could have played out differently from even how he experienced them!
@@leannkennett905I understand your concern! But i would like to point something out. This looks like you are trying to justify abuse. You seem te be doing this by pointing out that the victim of said abuse is not perfect and does not have perfect memory of the events that happened almost a century before. It seems like you are trying really hard to victim blame an abuse survivor. And i'm sure that is not your intention! It does not matter that he, or the others, are fictional. Victims are not perfect and dont have perfect memory, certainly of traumatic moments (fictional or not) that does not mean they didn't happen or that they shouldn't be believed. That he is an unreliable narrator, which they all are, does not mean that his experiences and feelings are not valid (this goes for Armand, Lestat, Claudia and Daniel as well). Does Louis have anger towards both Lestat and Armand, yes! justifilyably so, and this ofcourse colors the memory. But that doesnt matter in the end, because the impact was the same: he had all his bones broken, lost his family, was in a relationship so toxic he had to flee to a different continent, lost his daughter in a gruesome way and felt so much agony that he decided to burn himself to a crisp while being high out of his mind. Those last behaviors, the promiscuity, drug abuse and suicidal idiation, dont come falling out of no where and people generally dont do them for fun and attention. So im inclined to believe louis when he says that his experiences with them both Lestat and Armand were aweful. (He doesn't even call himself a victim) It does not take away from the other characters that their treatment of louis resulted in this interview with this framing. Yes both armand and lestat went through horrible things that they didnt deserve, but louis' experiences at their hands do not need to be invalidated for that to remain true. Also in my opinion this framing just adds to the characters, see it as the start of character arcs for them. The worse they start, the better, more satisfying it is to watch the journey throughout the seasons. Let the first seasons be exactly that, the beginning. We haven't gotten to the meat and potatoes yet where they *spoilers*. It forms a good and complex basis for all of that. It would be rather boring to, in the next seasons, just be discussing what was true and what was not (when we know that doesnt really happen in the book, lestat spends about 3 sentences going yeah that was a lot but i would have killed me too). The forst two seasons are a starting point, yes this and that happend and it was true (and all have perspectives and lie to themselves about things) but now what?
Sorry this was long, its just that ive seen similar opinions on the internet in the last year and i just needed to get this out. I hope you understand what i tried to explain..it is fine if you still disagree! Then we just live and let live😊
@@Eveslittlehistories nope, (I even pointed out that if things happened as described they are pretty bad.) but we are talking about some significant and egregious differences in Louie’s original story (which is cannon in the series as illustrated by the scene where Louie dramatically burns the old tapes and the scene where they flash back to the original interview) like the huge difference between turning a 5 year old into a vampire (very very bad.) and lestat turning a girl at 15 in early America where she is considered an adult and would have possibly been married off or in the process of being married off way back then! Or Louie making it seem like lestat was slaughtering innocent people who did absolutely nothing wrong when really he was specifically targeting serial killers and multiple murderers who would probably face the death penalty if their crimes were ever discovered.
@@leannkennett905 Lol what? To entertain your points about the incongruencies, ep 2.5 pretty much suggests that the contents of the original tapes are not the same as the books we have read. Pieces are the same yes and he did demonize lestat in that first interview. He also immediatly gets called out on it. In the second interview, in dubai, however it is clearly told to us that this is a more truthfull and nuanced story(still colored by his feelings, but that is any story ever told by anyone). That is the point of the second interview, for Louis to remember what he forgot and to tell the truth (from his and claudia's POV). The point of the first interview in SF was to lash out and be angry. So your point is moot. also "claudie married off at 15?" nothing in the show suggests that was the case, she was 14 btw, so you are just making things up now. Your other point about lestat killing serial killers and murderers is book canon, the same canon where he drained a mother and young child outside of a cathedral and was very sexual about it by his own admission(the Vampire Lestat. p142). Neither book not show Lestat is a good and virtuous person. We are talking about the show tho so that is an irrelevant point. But it is true that that is a bit in the book i had forgotten. Thank you for reminding me, im sorry that i glossed over the point, there are probably others. My point is that it doesnt matter tho. This does not take away from my main point that you are still, even when i tried to point it out very nicely, trying to blame a victim here. You do not seem to grasp what i was trying to say, that Louis feelings, wether he misremembers things or not, are valid. Truth and reconcilliation. And these imperfect expression of feelings is even interesting for the show as it gives characters dimension and the relationships complexity. But I can't convince you. It seems that we have watched two different shows. I can't believe you want Louis to be the villian this bad... is it racism or is it something else? do you just not like it when characters are complex and relationships have nuances and layers? And don't think i didn't notice how suddenly Armand has left your argument lmao. I like lestat, i've read the books, i've seen the show. Lestat is a cool character, but not because he is good. Because he is a terrible person who is self aware, does it on purpose because he feels that because of vampirism he has lost all rights to humanity in himself (does not justify anything). He is repeating cycles of abuse, so are all the others. They hurt eachother, they love eachother, they have to live with eachother forever. whatever would make you think that after 2 seasons and 3 years this, very well thought out, show is going to say fuck it all of that was lies? dont answer that, its a rethorical question. Louis' story has to hold a lot of truth, lestats story adds context. Lestat is not redeemed through that context nor is Louis a liar in the end. He is called dramatic in the books, sure, but abusers tend to not experience abusing the same way as the abused experienced it and tend to then minimise it. On the writers team there is a person who is essentially the lead on writing accurate and respectfull abuse portrials. She is still on that writers team. An abuse redemption/ rebuilding a relationship story arc that is respectfull to its victim (which the show has been these last two seasons) can not have their story and feelings be minimised or debunked. A storyline like that doesnt work that way. Sorry i'm done, i dont know you. You said a vile thing in the comments and i comment back because people need to know that that was not ok actually. it is a compleetly gross thing. goodnight.
Lestat was still beating on Louis even before they took the fight into the coffin room. Idc Louis was mean and neither did Lestat because for him Louis leaving with Claudia was all he needed to hear to drop him from the sky.Some Lestat apologist really thought that scene was meant to jusify the drop i cant
I don’t think Lestat is irredeemable yet, if he takes Claudia’s death and is truly sorry, as suggested, in the last episode of season 2. He maybe able to learn from this and change. (Hopefully not too much)
The issue is that we are unfortunately viewing Lestat through Louis' eyes and the show has already proven him to be an unreliable narrator, much more than the books ever did. We don't really know how the events actually played out. Have you ever misrembered a detail that you sure was true and then being told that your memory is wrong? That happened to me once and it was crazy. Emotions, trauma and time can sometimes warp memory in crazy ways. Imagine being a vampire with heightened emotions and stretching out that time with unnatural vampire lifespans. Also, there is Armand litterly messing with his memory.
Which is why I made it a point to say in the beginning that unless everything we know isn’t true, there is no justification for Lestat. Because I’m aware that we’re getting different perspectives. But the point was that even from the limited knowledge we do have, people have gone out of their way to paint Louis and Claudia in a bad light in favor of Lestat. That’s why this video was made.
@SaidByTy Oh, I get the point of the video. I think that they have already confirmed that Lestat did watch Claudia die and did nothing to stop it. That alone was cold blooded and ruthless, regardless if the events played out the way they did or not. I just know that Anne Rice loved the character and used the second book as a way to retcon a bunch of the evil actions of Lestat and put him in a more sympathetic light. I'm not sure if this iteration will get that chance, but they did create an easy out with Armand. We know that Armand is obsessed with Louis and is jealous of Lestat. So it would not be unreasonable to believe that many of Louis' memories of Lestat specifically were altered by Armand.
The show doesnt have villains besides perspectives.
Wait. Lestats abuse doesnt justify his wrongs, but Louis is just a victim no matter what wrongs he does?
I literally state in the video that Louis isn’t above criticism and actively call him terrible for what he did to Claudia. Did you watch the whole thing or are you just being argumentative?
Thank you for making this! Especially in the original books, I felt Ann Rice made it clear that Louis is an imperfect victim. But a victim nonetheless of Lestat and Armand’s abuse.
Also people falling for Lestat’s charm is exactly what both series are warning us against. Abusers can be charming as hell and use that charm to get away with being awful.
Exactly! Which is why I had to point out that he is, in fact, very charming-that’s what makes him dangerous.
ur so real #likedandsubscribed
And the thing is… HE HIMSELF would agree with you!! 😂💯🔥
actually agreeing to have done bad things and just agreeing to being the cartoon villain you lot want him to be are two different things he would absolutely agree that he has fucked up many MANY times in his life that is true
@ I don’t want him to be anything. I’ve read the chronicles twice over. I just stated he would agree that he is terrible . That’s one of the many things that makes him such a compelling character. People hating him for his actions are allowed to feel the way they feel.
So while I'm not challenging your point: yes, Lestat is a villain and louis is a victim.
I think you misinterpreted the entire framework of the show in order to present a very black and white (both morally and racially) picture of the show.
We are not supposed to interpret every instance of season 1 as fact because louis is an unreliable narrator. Unequivocally, yes, the sum of the experience is one where (both in the book and in the show) Lestat is abusive and takes advantage of a grief torn louis. In the show they take it a step further by having him physically harm louis in order to replace the events of the book since the new version necessitated a different scene. I personally feel this could be a mistake given that Lestat is the main character of the entire series and him doing that to Louis will prevent some viewers from ever seeing his as a protagonist ever again.
However, regardless, doesn't change the fact that he's an abuser. And that Lestat chooses in the books not to rewrite louis's story. He instead focuses on his own story to explain some of the major decisions he made and emphasizes the moments where louis in the book expresses a more even exchange. The show probably will not clarify further the storyville events just as the book did not. I believe we are meant to accept the unclear nature of what the exact truth is as viewers. To recognize that there's trauma there but that it's not so clean as saying Lestat is this mastermind villain and unredeemable.
What bothers me is the lack of nuance you give to those scenes because it's a central piece of the story. And because it leads you to misinterpret the ending. Lestat is not "with" louis or a part of Louis's life. Louis went there for closure and then left. They had a moment but now Lestat is gone. That's the point of the ending where Louis challenges the other vampires. He's alone. He's accepted himself as a vampire (and you glcould argue as a queer man) and he's prepared to start living truthfully (something he has not allowed himself even after he gained the power to do so).
However I'm glad this video exists. Because again, I love Lestat but especially how he's presented in this adaptation (unreliable narrations or not) hes still an abusive bastard and so many people minimize that reality. It's not fair to the story or the character for people to blindly support him because that's not what his character is. He's a fucked up charismatic asshole who probably has borderline personality disorder amped up to the inifonite level of vampiric emotion and who literally embodies, 'im going to fuck around and find out"
We can love him, but we should not condone or excuse 80% of what he does. Especially with the new context of the racial power dynamics at play within this chapter of his story. And I hope your video helps prevent some of the very weird victim blaming given both to Louis and Claudia
1). Within the first few minutes of this video I address perspectives and very clearly state that this video is predicated on everything we know being TRUE. So no, I didn’t ignore the unreliable narrator motif, it’s just put to the side for the sake of this video, and I make it clear that that will be the case in the very beginning.
2). I never said the two of them ended up together at the end, nor do I imply as much, so I’m not sure where you pulled that from.
3). I’m not sure where exactly you believe you’re pointing out my lack of nuance? I understand the point of the scene. I simply don’t agree with the things Louis says-whether it’s for closure or not-and I’m entitled to not agree with that. I’ve expressed that there is a world in which I believe that scene could have been done better for purposes of closure TO ME. Has nothing to do with misinterpretation or not understanding nuance. I just believe Lestat is villainous and doesn’t deserve that much grace from Louis, and until the show presents something otherwise, that will continue to be my belief.
4). Speaking of what’s on the show; I would really like for everyone to stop bringing up the books when discussing the actions on a show, especially when things on the show exist entirely separate from the books. It’s redundant.
I do thank you for pointing out the video’s necessity though. I agree.
@SaidByTy thanks for some clarification ☺️ I definitely misinterpreted some items like number 2.
Honestly I'm not trying to say you're wrong. I just watched the show from a very different framework/perspective partially because I like the complexity and partially because I am a huge fan of the books.
But it's definitely interesting to see someone who watches it in a different way from me. I kind of wonder what Anne Rice would think. Because within the uniervsere of the Book cannon, the books are real and folks read it and then reference them in later books. I kind of wonder if the fake audiences of the book have similarities to the very real audience of the TV show. Going in blind and with the unreliable facts of either character, creating their own truths from the work and their own alliances so to speak.
Idk its just very fun to see and I'm glad folks are engaging so much with it considering it's the only successful and good adaptation to come out since the brad Pitt movie. So thanks lol
I don’t think season 3 is gonna be for you lmfao
Oh 💀
I'm 100% sure he will enjoy season 3 😂 Nicki(biggest lestat hater)will probably be his favourite character ,we will see how lestat's gonna react when his lovers are not pick mes like Louis 😂
@@SaidByTyI mean, my prediction for season three is that we will gear up for Lestats character arc.
This show is about contrition - for Lestat I think his arc will essentially be about learning to be a better vampire-lover for Louis' sake, and for his own. The thing with Lestat is that he clearly deeply fears loneliness, but if he continues to act an ass he will continue to drive everyone away, and he'd become a self fulfilling prophecy.
We already see he is guilt ridden because of what he did to Louis and Claudia and only in death does he really know how much he loves Claudia and feels guilty about being a horrible father. Louis and Lestat both need to mourn her, and Lestat has many toxic behaviors he needs to unlearn
Between Nicki and Gabrielle any Lestat hater will have plenty to cackle about.
armand supporters love to gaslight others into hating lestat, classic armand move
Who supported Armand here? Quickly.
@@SaidByTy see? more gaslighting oh armand you're not clever.
@@tena1df8yb7rtv2xq Deflection. Answer the question instead of being irrational lmao. Like please.
@@SaidByTy i've just read other comments and you run around in circles calling everyone delusional no matter what argument is being said. not falling for that, armand dedeflection
@ Maybe try not being delusional. It works wonders.
One minute in and I'm already cackling
You’re so right I swear I’m so tired of this fandom sometimes 😭