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Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness characters ranked 1. Scarlet Witch 2. Doctor Strange 3. Wong 4. America Chavez 5. Christine Palmer (E-838) 6. Professor X 7. Captain Carter (E-838) 8. Mister Fantastic 9. Sinister Strange 10. Baron Mordo (E-838) 11. Wanda and the Twins (E-838) 12. Supreme Strange 13. Black Bolt 14. Captain Marvel (E-838)
Maybe, but there is still consequences that you have to pay, and that's the issue, we are supposed to believe that Wanda "made things right" at the end of WandaVision, she didn't. The people on Westview are probably still on therapy sessions
@@TJGibson0 nah The quote comes from Charles, Hank, and Logan talking and Charles talking to his old self Young Charles says to old Charles "this is what the humans do to us, Eric was right" he tells young Charles to have faith then is questioned saying, you're still on their side? Old Charles replies Just because someone stumbles and loses their way, doesn't mean they're lost forever Then when Hank tells Charles, what if she's meant to kill trask, you throw a pebble in a river, and it disrupts the current only for a while then repairs itself and that's what time is then old. Then Charles tell Hank no, just because someone stumbles and loses their way, doesn't mean they're lost forever. The dialogue in Days of Future Past is just top tier writing, only problem with DoFP is that the X-Men timeline is a but iffy, but on it's own it's just great! My favorite CBM to this day.
"If you thought about it for a second, I feel like you would see all the problems with it." Honestly, that's what happened in the end. Her sudden introspection as she said "I would never hurt... anyone.." realizing she had... "I'm not a monster..." realizing she is...
Every time I watch that scene I think about all the horrible things she has done in this movie and picture them just flashing through her mind at that moment. Hunting down a child, disintegrating people, torturing people, straight up murdering people in gruesome ways. "I'm not a monster . . ."
ALSO, people like Rick in this case seem to forget that this Wanda our Wanda is being CORRUPTED by the Darkhold, it's literally amplifiying her most darkest desires, in this case, her children, so technically she's not being entirely Wanda herself.
If you mean the nightmare at the beginning of AoU, that wasn't a normal, natural nightmare. Wanda used her powers on him. I'm convinced it was somewhat manipulated.
@@uncreativeuser because the time is relative to their location in Loki they killed him at the end of time which allowed the universes to develop without it seeming like no time passed at all. But when Iron Man was having those nightmares no anomalies were made due to Kang stopping them from happening.
They say several times that Darkhold corrupts people. And it's probably more than just playing on someone's preexisting greed. So it makes sense Wanda would get so unreasonable about getting the other children and didn't consider what's best for them, or at least those thoughts couldn't surface until she was confronted by the terror in their eyes.
@@bloodymares - She literally found out she was destined to be the MOST powerful being ever created from Agatha and you honestly believe in mourning her children on top of having a book that can make anything possible, she wouldn't read it? Lmao! Yeah, no. Even I would have skimmed it in sheer curiosity. It shows that a lot of folks don't get why Wanda would do what she did with the darkhold. Same as it wasn't WANDA. It was The Scarlet Witch, period.
In Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., the Darkhold is revealed to bring out a person's worst intentions. AIDA was an LMD, but reading the Darkhold made her want to experience being a human; whatever the cost. Even reading a section of the Darkhold is enough to corrupt the mind. Radcliffe read a passage and was willing to kidnap Melinda May for his LMD project. Of course Radcliffe isn't a full blown villain, but it was enough to unbalance his moral compass.
@@bloodymares What does that even mean? Something being the "book of Evil God" does not inherently mean it's going to drive you crazy. And I don't think Agatha mentioned any gods. All she said is it is the Darkhold, it's known as the Book of the Damned and there is stuff about Wanda in the book. Of course she's going to read it.
I know lots of people were disappointed by the cameos and how little they were around, but since I had to wait multiple weeks to see it, I got exposed to a lot of the discourse and was able to appropriately prepare myself for what the movie was actually like. My expectations were humbled and enjoyment of the movie was exponentially increased. I also honestly appreciate that this movie didn’t get bogged down with shoving endless multiversal cameos down our throats, which they very easily could have done. Instead, Sam Raimi was able to use the multiverse in a more meaningful way by showcasing other versions of Stephen Strange & Wanda Maximoff to better fit the thematic arcs that they’re going through and enrich the story.
Ahh yes this movie is the perfect example of not how to use the multiverse cause they really shouldn’t they didn’t any wild it feel like a worse version of spider verse if I’m being honest where there’s one strange who apparently is in the wrong for killing one soul to save millions
Honestly, I don't even think the Illuminati mean anything here. I think they just wanted to use the Illuminati here because they didn't have a place for it in the MCU-verse. They just have the misfortune of being the universe they fell into (by being connected to the Book of Vishanti). More people are just butt hurt about how the four were handled, but for me it was awesome how they died so quickly. So gruesome and horrifying. I loved it!
@@zacharybartolo5111 they didn’t feel like hero’s they were very inconsistent to lol like they kill strange for saving the world form thanos and kill him wich okay fine I guess but then won’t kill Wanda because plot they were gonna kill strange for walking into another universe so is Wanda with dream walking wich is very dangerous and is doing what strange is doing and are basically putting the whole multiverse at risk so what they do redd kills black bolt then slowly stretch his hand while Peggy and captain marvel watch what a team
@@chupppy2086 Honestly, I wouldn't call anyone who is part of an organization called the Illuminati a hero. After reading the Planet Hulk story, I scowl every time I hear that name.
I think the darkhold corrupted her using her grief, they basically established that she was drowning in it. One thing I didn't get was where was vision? It seemed like he would have been a big part of her arc. I know people have problems with this movie but actually think it's really fun. Though I hated seeing professor X die... we must protect him in all other universes :(
Yeah, the 'Pitch Meeting' for this mocked the way Wanda just totally ignores that Vision is (arguably) alive again, at least in some form. (of course that's the good thing about a persistent ongoing fictional universe - they can always fix an oversight like that at some future time. Assuming of course - as I suspect and certainly _hope_ - that this isn't the last we see of Wanda)
it wouldn't make sense for her to search for Vision. Wandavision was about her healing from his death and she finally did. Bringing that back would make Wandavision completely pointless, in my opinion
@@Enter_Zoneless yall they were variants, they’ll soon be introduced in our main universe, the illuminati was just there to depict on how powerful The Scarlet Witch is, literally that simple.
@@Enter_Zoneless considering how they depicted the illuminati almost perfect as they were in the comics arrogant and that led them to their demise. To be honest, illuminati or no illuminati, the characters we’ve seen will still be introduced sooner or later in our main timeline and have their own story.
Well Morgan La Faye was actually the only one who found The True Darkhold which was said Indestructible and contained Infinite Knowledge and contained all the Darkest Spell in all existence in Darkhold Omega issue 3-5 i think.
"the plot and the story are kind of weak but the trappings are amazing." exactly how I feel. Loved watching this reaction. I am a huge doctor strange fan and had tons of fun watching this movie, as they seemed to, but the story and delve into Doctor Strange was lacking. but damn, it was amazing to watch though. Sam Raimi definitely Sam Raimi'd
@@tiktaktictac All the things around it. Like, in this context, the story is the "meat" of the movie. While the trappings are the visuals, actions scenes and cameos and everything that supplements the movie that aren't necessarily the main throughline of the story
Watched it when it came out and my dad was waiting for it to come out on disney+ to watch it and watched it a few days ago and definitely agree. it's way better than I remembered
The music note fight reminded me of Legion. Also, the Dark Hold kept her from reason. It’s very seductive and hard to fight against. I’m glad she got there in the end, but R.I.P. to all her victims.
According to Bruce Campbell, he's signed a multi deal contract for upcoming Disney projects. He said that Pizza Poppa will be appearing in other shows and movies but only as a cameo much in the same way Stan Lee and then Wong have done.
Will these Disney projects you mentioned with Bruce Campbell as Pizza Poppa; will they solely be Marvel or some other Disney projects? Disney is huge, man, check out how big the Disney+ library is and you’ll agree with me.
Hopefully this opens up for more horror and surprising gory elements in future MCU projects(marvel zombies was confirmed to be TV-Ma its a step in the right direction). Wanda was absolutely terrifying in this movie and I loved it! It was like a magical T-800 was after you. To call her “fight” with Illuminati a “fight” in the first place would be the imply they stood a chance. At first I was mixed about this movie but overtime I’ve grown to appreciate this more and more. After rewatching other Sam Raimi works the cinematography of this is way better than I thought. It genuinely felt like HIS movie! I gave it 8/10 on a first impression but now it’s a solid 9 out of 10. Definitely could have benefited from a longer run time.
They kinda did have a chance if Reed had told Black Bolt to tell Wanda where to find what she was looking for. At the absolute worst, Black Bolt could have started reciting The Rime of the Ancient Mariner, pinning Wanda down into immobility while the others hit her with blasts until annihilation. I am well aware that Wanda would have died at a full sentence from Black Bolt in a normal voice. I am just giving her way more durability than she has shown. Reed screwed up.
@@highlander31527 I don't think people understand that the whole point was to not have Black Bolt kill Wanda. Read Richards didn't want that. He would be killing an innocent woman along with her, and it's not like he had any way of knowing that she could just remove his mouth. He was trying to diffuse the situation in a very intelligent way, there were just factors he couldn't possibly have considered.
@@godofthecripples1237 The word you are looking for is defuse, not diffuse. Learn English. It will help in speaking it. Also, Professor X had already warned them that this Doctor Strange could be trusted, and Reed ignored it.
I don't know why people keep ignoring the fact that she was corrupted by the Darkhold. It's not like Wanda from Endgame just up and became a psychopath naturally.
I feel like the problem is they didn't give those viewers time to spend with the Darkhold. For example, Agents of Shield viewers had several episodes dedicated to the Darkhold and its effects on people. WandaVision viewers were introduced to the book in the final episode and then they're expected to understand how powerful it is based on a post credits scene
@@joevictor53 You're told in the movie. Complete understanding pf what the Darkhold is is not required. I haven't watched AoS past season 3 so I haven't got to any Darkhold stuff. Yet I understood what happened to her because, again, you are explicitly told this in the movie.
@@crescendyr8438 Yeah you're told in the movie. But not to the point that people believe it. It's understandable that people don't fully get it because it's half arsed. It's basically like saying you shouldn't question why Palpatine is in TROS because you're told that he's there "somehow". Yeah you're told but not to the extent that you should be. The introduction of the Darkhold and explanation was really rushed in both WandaVision and Dr Strange 2. If you're a comic fan or Agents of Shield viewer, it's fine for you but it makes sense why normal people were confused about it
@@joevictor53 It's nothing like TRoS. Don't even joke. That the highest level of insult that can be given to any franchise.😅 I have read no comics nor watched any AoS episodes dealing with it. I got it just fine. Evil book corrupted her and made her evil. It's that simple. It's not complex. It requires no Phd in Marvelogy.
@@crescendyr8438 I'm sorry I went too far with the comparison 😂 I'm not saying people won't hear them saying the Darkhold corrupts. I'm saying they don't believe it. It's all about show not tell. It's easy to say the Darkhold corrupts people. But if you show it corrupting people, they're more likely to understand it and believe it
I remember seeing an article that the movie did better upon arriving on Disney+ compared to in theaters. I assume its because people got more time to grasp everything happening. But even still, I’m with the people who really like the movie but can’t really overlook the abundance of things going on and certain plot convenience. There’s a valid argument to be made that the original Doctor Strange did that since it showcases a superhero who is meant to experience a lot of paranormal and magical stuff you couldn’t comprehend first glance. But given how Phase 4 has been generally considered a mess with so much being thrown at us left and right, even when nearly all those movies and Disney+ shows are fantastic, suffice it to say, Multiverse of Madness kinda adds several more layers of plots and storylines we have yet to see But for what it is, I still really like this movie, and Sam Raimi did a phenomenal job implementing the amount of horror we got out of it. Tobey returning in No Way Home could’ve been the most notable influence we got out of Raimi in the MCU (heck, many still argue that it effectively makes him the person who started the MCU compared to Iron Man, even if the original Spider-Man trilogy was a separate universe), but it was great to have him direct this.
Rewatches. Theres too much going on in the first watch so once it hits streaming services you can rewatch. During a rewatch I noticed that America said she never came across another version of her or her parents. That our Dr Strange was the second one she met and the first one she met decided to kill her at the end. That she thinks food is free in every multiverse 😂
Talking about Wanda’s motivations- the dark hold corrupts!! She was already in a fucked up state when she started reading it & that’s why she went “crazy”
Having Sam Raimi do Doctor Strange 2 was one of the best idea Disney had in a while !! It's kinda perfect and they seems to have let him do his style, it's so crazy how many reference of his movies are in it ! If you want to do something more horror in the MCU but not too far, i guess the creator of Army of Darkness is a perfect balance. BTW if you guys haven't seen Drag me to Hell, you are missing a crazy fun movie, highly recommends it !
The dude who directed the black phone (2022) and dr strange 1 was going to direct it but Disney parted ways since he was going to make it full horror and he wanted Morto to be the central villain - would've loved to see his version
I’ve been wanting something fresh in the mcu cause the previous phases stick to the same formula and phase 4 sure has been switching it up and this is by far my favorite change of tone with the horror elements implemented by Sam Raimi with his style of comedy, the way it’s shot, the music ugh I loved it from all the magic shown off to Wanda being the villain to a 3rd act with demons and zombies loved it.
@@CrossOutBryce This literally was still the same formula. They just put a new wrapper on it to make you think otherwise, but everything about this movie was predictable, down to the sjw virtue signaling. People get fooled so easily.
@@pig_cakes1368 The Illuminati hated on Strange because he's the real danger not the literal mass murderer with the most powerful evil artifact in her possession. They can literally read his mind and see how much of a threat Wanda really is, but they're just convinced that Strange is the actual problem. This is echoed throughout the movie with things like Dr. Palmer not liking Steven because he always had to be the one in control. And in the finale, everything is solved by Dr. Strange just giving up that control and leaving it all in the hands of America, who can't control her powers. Except she suddenly can, simply because someone told her to believe in herself. And let's not forget that it's Dr. Stranger's movie, but he has to take a backseat in his own movie in order for the day to be saved. You would never have seen this in previous MCU movies. Thats one example. Another is America Chavez herself, who is an sjw character. She checks off all the boxes. She's not white, part of the LGBullshiT community, and her parents are part of it too(which unironically supports the idea that LGBT people are grooming kids to be like them since both America and her parents are lesbians). America Chavez herself is a character that was created as part of Marvel's woke campaign. She came out around the same time as other characters who placed an emphasis on being women/non-white/LGBT. These characters all had pretty poor numbers when it came to selling comics but instead of Marvel canning them like they should have done and accepting that their fans don't want politicized comics, they just kept pushing them and blaming the poor sales figures on at-right trolls. Other characters created during this campaign are the current Ms. Marvel, Miles Morales's Spider-Man, and Ironheart. Then there's all kinds of little small woke digs or story notes that popped up throughout the movie. Things like America just subtly sliding in that food should be free for everyone even though she's wrong, or the fact that Scarlet Witch is the enemy and she's such a badass and powerful female. So much so that an entire army of wizards and the Illuminati couldn't defeat her. There's other little bits and bobs throughout but these were the ones that came to mind. The biggest thing about all of this is that it's never just one thing. That would be too obvious and Disney knows that it would turn people off if they feel like they're being lectured to. So they just slide in a bunch of their political views and talking points and weave them in throughout the story and just hope people don't catch them.
My reactions are always to Eric reacting, his is definitely my favourite to watch, you can read his face like a book. But Aaron has been so funny recently watching trainspotting was hilarious with the needles!!!!
When the temple fell at the end there was a red flash from inside the rubble...I think that was her powers protecting her...maybe a forcefield or something. And she did come to reason at the end when she realized what she had done, so I think she could come back and completely redeem herself.
Seeing Black Bolt show up in this movie played by Anson Mount who played him in the terrible show makes me happy he’s in the movie but also mad because it means Inhumans is more justified to be canon than Agents of SHIELD.
On the other hand the way Black Bolt is defeated here is just so, _so_ dumb that it almost feels like a joke at the expense of the 'Inhumans' TV show. So maybe this is Feige's way of effectively closing it off as a possibility.
Because ive never seen Wandavision i had no idea that Scarlet Witch was going to be the villain, i just assumed it was going to be a evil Strange from Multiverse or someone else so i was pretty surprised about that
same, i never watched Wandavision so im like "bitch what's your reasoning" lol. but i feel like even if i watch Wandavision her ambitions wouldn't be any more relatable lol. i loved when Xavier and Mr. Fantastic showed up, but i was kinda disappointed they died so easily, it'd be cool if this was the way to introduce the X-Men and the Fantastic Four into our universe, forcing them in thanks to the multiverse fuckery, but instead we're gonna meet DIFFERENT alternate X-Men and Fantastic Four I GUESS lol. cus there's no way they ain't adding the F4 and the X-M they know what gets ppls money lol. overall the plot was very lacking, i think if someone loves mindless action (and there's nothing wrong with that) then it's a great movie for them, but if you want good character writing and storytelling it's hard to reccomend lmao it definitely isn't my kinda movie thanks to that. the ending was sorta anticlimactic too. as a horror artist by trade, i appriciate the horror elements and how metal it can get, like zombie Strange using the souls of the damned as his wings of a dark angel, and general body horror stuff. the CGI was CRAZY wonky tho like that surprised me cus the newest Spider-Man had great CGI lol.
I've seen wandavision and her arc in this movie doesn't make any sense, Waldron simply ruined her character and the development she went through in wandavision
Calvin: "Thats so metal". Me saying to myself "oh just you wait". Eric: "You have no idea how metal its gonna get". Im just pointing at the screen like "This guy gets it"
44:30 i dont really think she's dead. Most powerfull being killed By Rocks, that doesn't makes sense. Agatha said that her magic can turn on Autopilot, so maybe she teleported
I love the fact that America Chavez, a multiversal traveler, can only make sparks at first with the Sling Ring but Ned was able to make full on portals to where he wanted (albeit a bit of a technicality with how he found the other Peters) with zero practice, even if he did have trouble with closing them. If they ever do make him the Hobgoblin, I hope he's very sorcery-based.
Fun fact: Originally, No Way Home was supposed to come out after Multiverse of Madness. America Chavez was going to go to the Raimiverse & Webbverse to get Maguire & Garfield's Spider-Men to help out the MCU Spider-Man. When the release dates got delayed, they had to rewrite No Way Home to accommodate it. So, they gave Ned magic abilities out of nowhere. The writers were put in a tough position, so it's hard to blame them.
@@ColtonG826 I mean with what they have now it can just be argued that its simply innate proficiency due to his supposed family. Its not really a big deal tbh
That’s Maria Rambeau, Monica’s mother who was Carol Danvers’ best friend. Which makes more sense as Monica was like, a toddler when Captain Marvel got her powers.
“Keep in mind, this movie is directed by Sam Raimi” (this is probably the most important thing to know going into this movie, your love of his style absolutely makes or breaks this movie)
His style absolutely ruins the movie for anyone who is not a Raimi fan which you may be shocked to discover is actually a really high percentage of MCU fans.
@@SuperDoNotWant Fair point, I changed my wording in my comment to say “your love of his style makes or breaks this movie” 👍 I 100% get why Raimi’s style doesn’t work for others, but it personally works for me, but either are okay!
Err, nope :). Love his style (as I say in another post, for longer than Blind Wave have been alive). Despite that, this is mid-tier MCU for me (it's the Raimi of it all that lifts it _that_ high). (the script is badly flawed IMO - if America isn't dumb at the wrong time, Wanda is neutralised. If Wong isn't dumb at the wrong time, Wanda is neutralised. If Reed Richards isn't dumb at the wrong time, Wanda is neutralised. Etc. I go back and forth on _sometimes_ wondering if this might be a deep meta comment on horror movies - which famously often only work because about 90% of the characters are cataclysmically stupid - but mostly I just think it's bad writing)
9:28 because whatever her magic creates *IS* real. That's what gets me so angry when people say her kids weren't real because *they were* . They were tangible human beings with their own feelings and minds, as well as hex-vision. Her poeer is spontaneous creation. Jist becausenshe was able to conjure them up spontaneously doesnt make them any less real, and just because they couldn't leave the hex (a boundry she accidentally placed) doesn't mean they didn't exist.
31:26 I thought the same thing when I saw how decayed Dr. Strange when I saw it in theaters. I thought to myself that there wasn't enough time for him to decay that much. When I watched it on D+ I noticed that in the beginning of the movie when Dr. Strange got stabbed in the leg, the wound started to rapidly decay or get infected. I think the being he fought at the beginning had the power the rapidly decay flesh of it's victims through poison, venom, or magic. I believe that is why Zombie Strange is so decayed even though not alot of time had passed since they buried him. 1:03:55 you guys are confusing Sinister Strange (MOM) and Supreme Strange (What If?). They are different Dr. Stranges.
I was sad in my theater only me and my cousin laugh and cheered when Bruce Campbell showed up, us two were huge sam rami fans I'm happy he got to direct this. We loved the evil dead vibes.
Great reaction as always. I feel people are missing some details and jumping to conclusions in regards to the story. Yes, on the surface, it seems to have issues and is pushing things to happen a certain way for non-story reasons. However, after I thought about it for a bit after watching this the first time, everything can be explained. Wanda's actions and reasoning is easily explainable as the Darkhold corrupting her desires and twisting her fears and insecurities to the point where her actions are too extreme. The Illuminati fight is also easily explainable. If you notice, she had magic going during the whole conversation, and taking into account how she circumvented the shield of Kamar-taj, she was obviously weaving a spell that enhanced their arrogance (not that hard of a thing to do, to be honest) and directing their actions subtly to do what she wanted. Especially with Reed. Also, take into account her powers were amplified by both the Darkhold and the Mind Stone. She is the singularly most powerful person in that room. And finally, the other major contention people have is the end fight when America begins fighting. Dr. Strange's pep talk actually makes sense, since after dealing with Wanda they will need her to come and get him later. Another thing is America realizes she will never beat Wanda as she is at that moment, so she fought smarter and opened up a portal/breach to the home of 838-Wanda. I feel people have trained themselves to negatively react to things out of Hollywood these days any time something even hints at things leaning one way or the other. At least in this case, people are wrong and Sam Raimi knew exactly what he was doing.
I never realized how much I wanted Robbie Reyes as the Darkhold's Guardian until yall played the Agents of Shield theme, and it would make sense if it was a copy and Robbie's Ghost Rider was the guardian as per their arrangement in the show. It would have made a lot more sense than "It was a temple"
There is still one copy of the Darkhold. It is in Stephen’s mind. He has a photographic memory. When he reads something he doesnt forget it so he read the darkhold. And thus his mind is the last copy 🤓
Dr Strange learns so much about himself from the alternate dimension Strange's and that doesnt get enough credit when it comes to this movie, from Defender Strange thinking he has to be the one to control America's powers to the strange at the end who pretty much felt the same way after Christine's wedding the difference for our strange was america showing up instead of going home and destroying his universe
When Wanda was destroying the temple with her inside, there was a sus flash of red. We also didn't see her die on screen. I refuse to believe she is actually dead. (Plus, Multiverse, so we will absolutely see Wanda again, one way or another.)
Apparently the music fight at the end was a joke idea straight from Danny Elfman, and Raimi and Waldon were like, "Yeah actually that's awesome. Let's do it."
The MCU does Wizard of Oz and Evil Dead. Chainsaw Massacre. Carrie. Jhorror. Lovecraft. Godzilla. Buffy the Vampire Slayer. It's so beautiful. And my heart always breaks at the end when 616 Wanda finally realizes what she's done and you see how desperately she just wants to be with her kids. Magnificent
I love the references, especially the ones that involve witches or witchcraft in some way. I feel like the most subtle one is when Snow White was playing on the TV when 838 Wanda’s children saw 616 Wanda and screamed “it’s a witch”; when both movies involved an evil witch trying to kill a young girl.
@@MySushiBear Oh okay. Well he clearly meant normal people watching the film. I mean most MCU directors aren't going to be watching everything that came before when they're making something. Like the Russo Bros wouldn't have been able to watch Captain Marvel before making Endgame because it would've basically been done at that point.
Yall are forgetting the darkhold corrupts those who use it. So it’s not fair to say she’s a bad or unrelatable villain when the darkhold is using her grief to play out its own dark motives through her. It’s not like she was fully in control of herself.
I dont get the hate at all for this movie, and I suspect that it will build a greater following as time goes on due to its uniqueness. Sam's style and fan-service is legendary and this movie is no exception. He should be proud of it and fans should enjoy it for what it is: A campy superhero movie with all of the Evil Dead ridiculousness.
@@Metal.combat A large majority of people didn't like the movie because it didn't have enough of exploring the multiverse with lots of cameos along the way. And how is it a bad movie? Edit: also the only cameos we had in this movie was the Illuminati who got murdered in like a span of 10 minutes so it doesn't really have a lot of unnecessary cameos
These two guys again.. How could you avoid all the spoilers? I'm impressed 😂 Even if I tried to avoid all social medias, I'd probably accidentally hear my friends talk about the movie.
Dormammu getting "incursioned" on by Chthon would be so interesting. It would make sense since we saw Clea (who is Dormammu's niece) in the mid-credits scene bringing Doctor Strange to the Dark Dimension to help out. Imagine in, in order to save the universe/multiverse, Strange has to save his archenemy, Dormammu, from Chthon or another huge threat.
I liked the movie overall, but had a few gripes. Mostly minor, but the biggest is just Wanda's mindset is so different from where she ended up in WandaVision. At the end of WandaVision she realizes the error of her ways in hurting others to get back what she lost and appears to accept her loss. I get that she was then corrupted by the Darkhold, but having that take place mostly off-screen is jarring. Not to speak of frustrating having to essentially see her go through the same journey as in WandaVision, just with higher stakes. It didn't really feel like the two projects were coordinated very well as the overall character development throughout feels unnatural. Also I can't imagine it's the last time we see her. If that's Wanda's exit from the MCU, it's gotta be one of the most anticlimactic fails for such a huge/beloved character.
It's clear at the end of the show she never accepted anything really. It wasn't a happy ending. She accepted that she was hurting people and that she should stop but it wasn't an easy decision. She was still very much so longing for her children and wanted to understand her powers. Then the book she chooses to learn from shows her she could have her children properly and then the movie. Though I mostly agree about the off screen corruption.
That was my issue. They make it seem that she learns some lesson at the end of WandaVision and when we see her next she regressed 110%. Corruption isn’t something instant and that’s what it felt like regardless if they had a shot at the end of WandaVision that teased something corruptive. I think The Hobbit did corruption well with Thorin. It was subtle and creeping. Not subtle enough where you’d miss it, but not screaming in your face and out of nowhere.
'At the end of WandaVision she realizes the error of her ways in hurting others to get back what she lost and appears to accept her loss.' Really? The last shot of her is her looking through the multiverse for her children using the darkhold, that doesn't seem particularly accepting ^^
The issue with this movie is Wanda shouldn't have even been involved, or at the very least she should have just been a sidekick. America absolutely shouldn't have been invovled at all, but they threw her in as part of this whole new woke agenda they're pushing. Nobody knows or gives a crap about America Chavez. We should have gotten Mordo or may e Nightmare as the villain. Classic Dr. Strange villains that are actually established and have a story to tell. Not to mention you can still play the multiverse angle with Nightmare since they introduced the idea that dreams are windows to other realities. Nightmare could have played with that and then we could see foreshadowing to Wanda becoming a villain. That would be way more effecting than what we got, but Disney needed to show a strong I dependant woman who's a badass and they needed to shit on straight white men as much as possible. That's why in every universe Dr. Strange is apparently a problem and that's why America couldn't be on the screen two seconds without mentioning her mom's are lesbians.
I like the alternate universe where each time something turns out wrong, I'm like "nope". Time freezes, a menu appears. I select "Load", choose a checkpoint and get back in time a few minutes before. Dreamt about that a few times. Quite handy, gotta say.
I watched this with my dad for the first time since seeing it in theatres on my own and I honestly don't think it's bad. It has issues sure but I really think it's overhated by some. I mean people expected a bit too much when it came to the multiverse and for the movie to be cameo central which is probably why its divisive amongst audiences and fans. I really enjoyed it but I do acknowledge that it isn't perfect and could have been something more.
Sure, a bit more "multiverse" and "madness" in this supposed "Multiverse of Madness" would've been great. But i'd settle for just a script that doesn't have so many stupid, contrived plot points (if Wong doesn't give up the Darkhold temple for instance then that's it, end of Wanda's threat to the multiverse. Reed explaining how to defeat Black Bolt, America pausing to gaze into the reflection when she's literally just been told to cover them up, our intrepid trio pausing in the tunnels to give Wanda a chance to catch-up/jump-scare them etc. Dumbity dumb dumb). So no, for me the main problem was it doesn't do the basics of storytelling well.
@@anonymes2884 I get what you mean, Michael Waldron isn't the best writer on the planet. I guess if the story was streamlined a bit more and a few tweaks here and there, then the movie could've gone a lot smoother.
@@anonymes2884 I never once thought Wanda's threat to the multiverse would be over if Wong didn't give up the Darkhold temple and neither should you. She was literally in the place where the sorcerers go to train. America gazing at the reflection isn't what caused Wanda to come in, and the pause in the tunnels is used for dramatic effect, also inconsequential to the movie. There are a lot of stuff you have to accept when you watch a movie, and that's suspension of disbelief and people have various tolerances towards it, but what you're describing here aren't "plot holes", you can't tell me those alone or even together ruined the movie for you. Dr Strange in the Multiverse of Madness is a perfectly adequate movie exploring the themes of "being the one holding the knife", loss and grief. Every major character experiences loss in the movie, and they regret it and think to how life could've been - they just respond differently, hence the knife theme. It *does* do the basics of storytelling well.
@@CDexie "I never once thought Wanda's threat to the multiverse would be over if Wong didn't give up the Darkhold temple..." Great, that plot point worked for _you_ then. "...the pause in the tunnels is used for dramatic effect" Sure but when a plot point is very obviously _just_ for dramatic effect that's bad writing (IMO obviously). Part of the art of writing is to make it _feel_ like things are happening as a _natural_ result of what's happened before in the story + what we know about the characters. In other words to avoid plot or character beats feeling _contrived_ by the writer _despite_ the fact that some part of us - at least if we're mentally healthy - _knows_ everything actually IS contrived by the writer (plus, in a collaborative medium, directors, actors etc.). The moments I list (among others) felt purely about getting to the next moment _in the script_ (a jump scare in the tunnel case) rather than organically experiencing the next moment _in Doctor Strange's story_ - each contributed to breaking the illusion that this is a real world, with real people and actual stakes we should care about. That absolutely _isn't_ "inconsequential to the movie" because not breaking that suspension of disbelief is everything in storytelling - without that the whole thing is just an exercise in moving pieces around a board, interspersed with pretty visuals. (themes are great but you need to get the basics right first and avoiding "And then this happened. And then this happened..." writing is one of the basics) "There are a lot of stuff you have to accept when you watch a movie, and that's suspension of disbelief and people have various tolerances towards it..." Right, exactly. I think maybe you're focusing on "have to accept" when i'd say it's "various tolerances" that's actually the key here - "suspension of disbelief" is called that partly because it's a balancing act, it can be broken and what it takes to break it is subjective. "...but what you're describing here aren't "plot holes"..." Err, I didn't claim they _were_ "plot holes", I said "contrived plot points" above. Different things. "...you can't tell me those alone or even together ruined the movie for you." I mean, I _am_ telling you that so clearly I can :). Or actually, "ruined" _may_ be too harsh but certainly "relegated to low to mid-tier MCU" is fair. Put it this way, watching the movie was more frustrating than fun for me so not a positive experience _on balance_ but certainly not entirely negative either. If that's "ruined" in your view then OK. (and _obviously_ it's all those moments - among others - taken together. How else does a movie affect us except as a collection of moments that contribute to a whole ?)
The first segment of "Fantasia" was a kind of attack by animation whist 'Toccata and Fugue in D Minor' by Bach plays. (It is fun to play and not too hard.) More musical animation used as a weapon recently: Doctor Who: "Devil's Chord".
I think Wanda is understandable if not relatable. She went directly from losing her kids in her world to using the Darkhold and find those same kids in other worlds. If she’d had the time, and maybe therapy, to work through it she’d have seen that there was also a her in those worlds she’d be at best killing and at worst be taking the kids from. Also, depending on how Incursions work it might be impossible for her to be with her kids. Them in her world or her in theirs could cause an incursion. Meaning she’d either have to abandon those kids and go to another pair, or just travel the multiverse destroying universes. However since America doesn’t cause incursions, it might have to do with more than just dreamwalking or staying in another universe for too long, but what is done while in another universe.
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The next 4 movies are:
The World's End
The Grand Budapest Hotel
Goodfellas
RRR
RRR is the best movie of the year and I will hear no slander of it
Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness characters ranked
1. Scarlet Witch
2. Doctor Strange
3. Wong
4. America Chavez
5. Christine Palmer (E-838)
6. Professor X
7. Captain Carter (E-838)
8. Mister Fantastic
9. Sinister Strange
10. Baron Mordo (E-838)
11. Wanda and the Twins (E-838)
12. Supreme Strange
13. Black Bolt
14. Captain Marvel (E-838)
Watch 3 idiots, my name is Khan, pk and dangal
This is the worse doctor strange movie to date.
Well the comics show Black Blot can HUMMM & destroy people
"Just because someone stumbles and loses their way, doesn't mean they're lost forever". Straight out of Days of Future Past and I love it
I REALLY want to see Phoenix vs Scarlet Witch one day.
my favorite CBM! knew the quote the moment it was said
Maybe, but there is still consequences that you have to pay, and that's the issue, we are supposed to believe that Wanda "made things right" at the end of WandaVision, she didn't. The people on Westview are probably still on therapy sessions
I thought it was from the first X-Men??
@@TJGibson0 nah
The quote comes from Charles, Hank, and Logan talking and Charles talking to his old self
Young Charles says to old Charles "this is what the humans do to us, Eric was right" he tells young Charles to have faith then is questioned saying, you're still on their side? Old Charles replies Just because someone stumbles and loses their way, doesn't mean they're lost forever
Then when Hank tells Charles, what if she's meant to kill trask, you throw a pebble in a river, and it disrupts the current only for a while then repairs itself and that's what time is then old. Then Charles tell Hank no, just because someone stumbles and loses their way, doesn't mean they're lost forever. The dialogue in Days of Future Past is just top tier writing, only problem with DoFP is that the X-Men timeline is a but iffy, but on it's own it's just great! My favorite CBM to this day.
I always have to remind myself to not be selfish because I want Eric to not watch anything until he reacts to it.
Same
Next time he must set up a rig in the theatre ;)
Me too 🤦🏿♀️🤣
Same
Well he watches, but you will not know it.. so 🤷🏻♀️
"If you thought about it for a second, I feel like you would see all the problems with it." Honestly, that's what happened in the end. Her sudden introspection as she said "I would never hurt... anyone.." realizing she had... "I'm not a monster..." realizing she is...
It’s also a nice call back to when she said earlier in the movie “I’m not a not a monster, I’m a mother”.
Every time I watch that scene I think about all the horrible things she has done in this movie and picture them just flashing through her mind at that moment. Hunting down a child, disintegrating people, torturing people, straight up murdering people in gruesome ways. "I'm not a monster . . ."
ALSO, people like Rick in this case seem to forget that this Wanda our Wanda is being CORRUPTED by the Darkhold, it's literally amplifiying her most darkest desires, in this case, her children, so technically she's not being entirely Wanda herself.
@@juliocesarg.r.1238people tend to forget this and then go "she's evil she shouldn't be redeemed etc"
Love that this confirms that Tony Stark's nightmares were actually other universes of their failure.
If you mean the nightmare at the beginning of AoU, that wasn't a normal, natural nightmare. Wanda used her powers on him. I'm convinced it was somewhat manipulated.
No it wasn't there wasn't multiverses until sylvie killed Kang in Loki.
@@dezheathen If that's the case, then how was America opening portals to other universes as a child?
@@uncreativeuser because the time is relative to their location in Loki they killed him at the end of time which allowed the universes to develop without it seeming like no time passed at all. But when Iron Man was having those nightmares no anomalies were made due to Kang stopping them from happening.
@@dezheathen dang, i must be really dumb cause I'm not understanding at all. Can you rephrase that first sentence?
They say several times that Darkhold corrupts people. And it's probably more than just playing on someone's preexisting greed.
So it makes sense Wanda would get so unreasonable about getting the other children and didn't consider what's best for them, or at least those thoughts couldn't surface until she was confronted by the terror in their eyes.
She shouldn't have read the book in the first place. Agatha told her it was the book of Evil God.
@@bloodymares
Yeah but.....Agatha also lied to her all the time and tried to kill her so I guess Wanda didn't believe her
@@bloodymares - She literally found out she was destined to be the MOST powerful being ever created from Agatha and you honestly believe in mourning her children on top of having a book that can make anything possible, she wouldn't read it? Lmao! Yeah, no. Even I would have skimmed it in sheer curiosity. It shows that a lot of folks don't get why Wanda would do what she did with the darkhold. Same as it wasn't WANDA. It was The Scarlet Witch, period.
In Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., the Darkhold is revealed to bring out a person's worst intentions. AIDA was an LMD, but reading the Darkhold made her want to experience being a human; whatever the cost. Even reading a section of the Darkhold is enough to corrupt the mind. Radcliffe read a passage and was willing to kidnap Melinda May for his LMD project. Of course Radcliffe isn't a full blown villain, but it was enough to unbalance his moral compass.
@@bloodymares What does that even mean? Something being the "book of Evil God" does not inherently mean it's going to drive you crazy. And I don't think Agatha mentioned any gods. All she said is it is the Darkhold, it's known as the Book of the Damned and there is stuff about Wanda in the book. Of course she's going to read it.
37:05 To me, the MCU did a better job with Scarlet Witch, than the X-Men movies did with the Phoenix Force!
You got a point
true, but both are tragic. their op characters end up getting killed off in the end.
@@vinsanity40k we didn’t see Wanda’s body
Agreed!
@@vinsanity40kwell Jean didn’t die, she evolved into the Phoenix force, leaving the X men universe
I know lots of people were disappointed by the cameos and how little they were around, but since I had to wait multiple weeks to see it, I got exposed to a lot of the discourse and was able to appropriately prepare myself for what the movie was actually like. My expectations were humbled and enjoyment of the movie was exponentially increased. I also honestly appreciate that this movie didn’t get bogged down with shoving endless multiversal cameos down our throats, which they very easily could have done. Instead, Sam Raimi was able to use the multiverse in a more meaningful way by showcasing other versions of Stephen Strange & Wanda Maximoff to better fit the thematic arcs that they’re going through and enrich the story.
Ahh yes this movie is the perfect example of not how to use the multiverse cause they really shouldn’t they didn’t any wild it feel like a worse version of spider verse if I’m being honest where there’s one strange who apparently is in the wrong for killing one soul to save millions
Honestly, I don't even think the Illuminati mean anything here. I think they just wanted to use the Illuminati here because they didn't have a place for it in the MCU-verse. They just have the misfortune of being the universe they fell into (by being connected to the Book of Vishanti). More people are just butt hurt about how the four were handled, but for me it was awesome how they died so quickly. So gruesome and horrifying. I loved it!
@@zacharybartolo5111 they didn’t feel like hero’s they were very inconsistent to lol like they kill strange for saving the world form thanos and kill him wich okay fine I guess but then won’t kill Wanda because plot they were gonna kill strange for walking into another universe so is Wanda with dream walking wich is very dangerous and is doing what strange is doing and are basically putting the whole multiverse at risk so what they do redd kills black bolt then slowly stretch his hand while Peggy and captain marvel watch what a team
@@chupppy2086 Honestly, I wouldn't call anyone who is part of an organization called the Illuminati a hero. After reading the Planet Hulk story, I scowl every time I hear that name.
@@zacharybartolo5111 yeah fair I just think they are bit inconsistent of how they run things
I think the darkhold corrupted her using her grief, they basically established that she was drowning in it. One thing I didn't get was where was vision? It seemed like he would have been a big part of her arc. I know people have problems with this movie but actually think it's really fun. Though I hated seeing professor X die... we must protect him in all other universes :(
I honestly wonder if there's a universe where his friends and student didn't die and he lived happy
Yeah, the 'Pitch Meeting' for this mocked the way Wanda just totally ignores that Vision is (arguably) alive again, at least in some form.
(of course that's the good thing about a persistent ongoing fictional universe - they can always fix an oversight like that at some future time. Assuming of course - as I suspect and certainly _hope_ - that this isn't the last we see of Wanda)
@@anonymes2884 yeah i dont think she's dead i think she just buried herself as a kind of punishment.
@@frnknstndrgqn or some as mephisto kang or doom kidnaped her and use her for battleground or some shit in avengers 5-6
it wouldn't make sense for her to search for Vision. Wandavision was about her healing from his death and she finally did. Bringing that back would make Wandavision completely pointless, in my opinion
The scene where strange was fighting himself with the music gave me fantasia nostalgia
“You don’t know how metal it’s gonna get”
Laughed so hard when Eric said that.
This movie is just gorgeous, Sam Raimi never misses.
Sam Raimi is a mad genius!
one thing though is i hated who he casted as venom in spiderman 3 besides that yes he mostly dont miss
@@BeanSparrow he never wanted to cast venom at all. that was executives breathing down his neck.
Eric I felt the same way as you when I saw Black Bolt the first time watching the movie.
Ditto. A huge pay off for wasting time on Inhumans. It wasn't all for naught!
I fkn freaked out when I first saw him, I told my friend I couldn’t believe they actually had him in, then he was killed? Such bs
@@Enter_Zoneless yall they were variants, they’ll soon be introduced in our main universe, the illuminati was just there to depict on how powerful The Scarlet Witch is, literally that simple.
@@MrNoob-ev4kt yeah ig, but now the Illuminati are the laughing stock of mcu so they won’t be taken serious anymore
@@Enter_Zoneless considering how they depicted the illuminati almost perfect as they were in the comics arrogant and that led them to their demise. To be honest, illuminati or no illuminati, the characters we’ve seen will still be introduced sooner or later in our main timeline and have their own story.
That SHIELD music when Wong said the Darkhold was a copy cracked me up. We small but active fan base will hold onto any hope dammit.
damn right 💪
the ghostrider season was probably the best or at least second best
@@vinsanity40k Seriously, I don't think there was a dull episode that season
Well Morgan La Faye was actually the only one who found The True Darkhold which was said Indestructible and contained Infinite Knowledge and contained all the Darkest Spell in all existence in Darkhold Omega issue 3-5 i think.
"the plot and the story are kind of weak but the trappings are amazing."
exactly how I feel. Loved watching this reaction. I am a huge doctor strange fan and had tons of fun watching this movie, as they seemed to, but the story and delve into Doctor Strange was lacking. but damn, it was amazing to watch though. Sam Raimi definitely Sam Raimi'd
That’s all a movie really needs to be at the end of the day: just being fun to watch
what does "trapping" mean?
@@Cs-cp6vo well, yes. but doctor strange fans specifically and some Scarlet Witch ones might disagree with that.
@@tiktaktictac All the things around it. Like, in this context, the story is the "meat" of the movie. While the trappings are the visuals, actions scenes and cameos and everything that supplements the movie that aren't necessarily the main throughline of the story
@@brit7317 thanks for the explanation, that was what I thought too
Fun fact: When Wanda says 'stop it', that was actually a genuine reaction from Olsen, they accidently threw a prop at her face. She apologized after
that’s so cap 💀
@@stewyyishim nah, she talked about it in an interview
They are basically thrwoing heavy things at face so I get why and it adds to her role.
@@stewyyishim It's actually true.
DID YOU KNOW THAT VIGGO MORTENSEN ACTUALLY BROKE HIS TOE WHEN HE KICKED THAT HELMET
I was kinda mid on this movie my first time watching it, but subsequent home viewing have really had it grow on me. It's so damn fun
That’s exactly how I felt, out of the theater I thought it was decent but on rewatch its so much more entertaining to watch
Watched it when it came out and my dad was waiting for it to come out on disney+ to watch it and watched it a few days ago and definitely agree. it's way better than I remembered
That’s exactly how I felt too!
facts i liked it better out of the theater tbh
Same
The music note fight reminded me of Legion.
Also, the Dark Hold kept her from reason. It’s very seductive and hard to fight against.
I’m glad she got there in the end, but R.I.P. to all her victims.
There were a bunch of legion-esque things, which I really liked
All I want out of a Doctor Strange movie is esoteric wizard duels. I got exactly what I wanted.
Exactly right 😊
the darkhold also amplified all of wanda's pain and pushed her in this direction
That "not the peas" joke -- I should not have laughed that much, but I did. During that music battle, I'm surprised you didn't say "Not the keys."
25:37 Seeing both Professor X and Scarlet Witch in the same movie brings me back to the old X-Men cartoons! Now this, puts a smile on my face 😌
then they killed him
@@wickedshadesproductions5254 *i killed him
@@wickedshadesproductions5254 tbf, they killed alternate universe him. Plenty more hims out there
According to Bruce Campbell, he's signed a multi deal contract for upcoming Disney projects. He said that Pizza Poppa will be appearing in other shows and movies but only as a cameo much in the same way Stan Lee and then Wong have done.
We don't wanna know 🙄
That'll be awesome! Been missing cameos like Lee's for a while now.
Will these Disney projects you mentioned with Bruce Campbell as Pizza Poppa; will they solely be Marvel or some other Disney projects? Disney is huge, man, check out how big the Disney+ library is and you’ll agree with me.
Love Eric turning to see if they are reacting well and then remembering he was trying not do it 19:40
When the 90s Xmen theme played as Prof X rolled in, I had the biggest nerdgasm ever
I loved when the Agents of Shield music played. That was epic. Props to your editor
18:24 That caught me off guard 😂
Also aye!!!!!!!! Robbie Reyes' Ghost Rider! 🙏🏽💪👏
A lot of people are blaming the Darkhold, but the Darkhold didn't corrupt her during WandaVision. She tortured a small town, including children.
Exactlyyyy she was already in the breach of evil
I love Eric half bracing himself for the Illuminati fight
Doctor Strange puppeting his own corpse and making a cape out of the damned is probably the best thing in the mcu in recent years
Hopefully this opens up for more horror and surprising gory elements in future MCU projects(marvel zombies was confirmed to be TV-Ma its a step in the right direction). Wanda was absolutely terrifying in this movie and I loved it! It was like a magical T-800 was after you. To call her “fight” with Illuminati a “fight” in the first place would be the imply they stood a chance.
At first I was mixed about this movie but overtime I’ve grown to appreciate this more and more. After rewatching other Sam Raimi works the cinematography of this is way better than I thought. It genuinely felt like HIS movie! I gave it 8/10 on a first impression but now it’s a solid 9 out of 10. Definitely could have benefited from a longer run time.
I hope so, because Blade is coming very soon.
They kinda did have a chance if Reed had told Black Bolt to tell Wanda where to find what she was looking for.
At the absolute worst, Black Bolt could have started reciting The Rime of the Ancient Mariner, pinning Wanda down into immobility while the others hit her with blasts until annihilation.
I am well aware that Wanda would have died at a full sentence from Black Bolt in a normal voice.
I am just giving her way more durability than she has shown.
Reed screwed up.
@@highlander31527 I don't think people understand that the whole point was to not have Black Bolt kill Wanda. Read Richards didn't want that. He would be killing an innocent woman along with her, and it's not like he had any way of knowing that she could just remove his mouth. He was trying to diffuse the situation in a very intelligent way, there were just factors he couldn't possibly have considered.
@@godofthecripples1237 The word you are looking for is defuse, not diffuse.
Learn English. It will help in speaking it.
Also, Professor X had already warned them that this Doctor Strange could be trusted, and Reed ignored it.
@@highlander31527 Really? Your comeback is to criticize grammar
I don't know why people keep ignoring the fact that she was corrupted by the Darkhold. It's not like Wanda from Endgame just up and became a psychopath naturally.
I feel like the problem is they didn't give those viewers time to spend with the Darkhold. For example, Agents of Shield viewers had several episodes dedicated to the Darkhold and its effects on people. WandaVision viewers were introduced to the book in the final episode and then they're expected to understand how powerful it is based on a post credits scene
@@joevictor53 You're told in the movie. Complete understanding pf what the Darkhold is is not required. I haven't watched AoS past season 3 so I haven't got to any Darkhold stuff. Yet I understood what happened to her because, again, you are explicitly told this in the movie.
@@crescendyr8438 Yeah you're told in the movie. But not to the point that people believe it. It's understandable that people don't fully get it because it's half arsed. It's basically like saying you shouldn't question why Palpatine is in TROS because you're told that he's there "somehow". Yeah you're told but not to the extent that you should be. The introduction of the Darkhold and explanation was really rushed in both WandaVision and Dr Strange 2. If you're a comic fan or Agents of Shield viewer, it's fine for you but it makes sense why normal people were confused about it
@@joevictor53 It's nothing like TRoS. Don't even joke. That the highest level of insult that can be given to any franchise.😅
I have read no comics nor watched any AoS episodes dealing with it. I got it just fine. Evil book corrupted her and made her evil. It's that simple. It's not complex. It requires no Phd in Marvelogy.
@@crescendyr8438 I'm sorry I went too far with the comparison 😂
I'm not saying people won't hear them saying the Darkhold corrupts. I'm saying they don't believe it. It's all about show not tell. It's easy to say the Darkhold corrupts people. But if you show it corrupting people, they're more likely to understand it and believe it
I remember seeing an article that the movie did better upon arriving on Disney+ compared to in theaters. I assume its because people got more time to grasp everything happening. But even still, I’m with the people who really like the movie but can’t really overlook the abundance of things going on and certain plot convenience. There’s a valid argument to be made that the original Doctor Strange did that since it showcases a superhero who is meant to experience a lot of paranormal and magical stuff you couldn’t comprehend first glance. But given how Phase 4 has been generally considered a mess with so much being thrown at us left and right, even when nearly all those movies and Disney+ shows are fantastic, suffice it to say, Multiverse of Madness kinda adds several more layers of plots and storylines we have yet to see
But for what it is, I still really like this movie, and Sam Raimi did a phenomenal job implementing the amount of horror we got out of it. Tobey returning in No Way Home could’ve been the most notable influence we got out of Raimi in the MCU (heck, many still argue that it effectively makes him the person who started the MCU compared to Iron Man, even if the original Spider-Man trilogy was a separate universe), but it was great to have him direct this.
Rewatches. Theres too much going on in the first watch so once it hits streaming services you can rewatch. During a rewatch I noticed that America said she never came across another version of her or her parents. That our Dr Strange was the second one she met and the first one she met decided to kill her at the end. That she thinks food is free in every multiverse 😂
this movie would’ve been bad if it wasn’t directed by sam raimi
@@user154 I thought it was bad even though it was directed by Sam Raimi personally but just my opinion
eric was actually so encapped at the end that he stood up and looked for the exit ;P
OMG Eric is wearing The Deke Squad shirt!
YES! I love that AOS edit of the dark hold being a copy.
Long live Agents of SHIELD
Talking about Wanda’s motivations- the dark hold corrupts!! She was already in a fucked up state when she started reading it & that’s why she went “crazy”
The Darkhold is definitely clouding her judgement too
17:42 a fantastic comedic moment gone unappreciated.
18:28 That's Niall Stenson's cover of Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D, that's awesome
Having Sam Raimi do Doctor Strange 2 was one of the best idea Disney had in a while !! It's kinda perfect and they seems to have let him do his style, it's so crazy how many reference of his movies are in it ! If you want to do something more horror in the MCU but not too far, i guess the creator of Army of Darkness is a perfect balance. BTW if you guys haven't seen Drag me to Hell, you are missing a crazy fun movie, highly recommends it !
This film was shite
I knew I had a good audience when Bruce showed up and everybody either cheered or laughed. Especially when he started punching himself.
The dude who directed the black phone (2022) and dr strange 1 was going to direct it but Disney parted ways since he was going to make it full horror and he wanted Morto to be the central villain - would've loved to see his version
Yes, but Waldron’s writing is meh
At least it stands out.
18:25 omg love this, and wow I didn’t even think about that. I really hope we see Robbie Reyes as ghostrider and our shield agents back :,)
I’ve been wanting something fresh in the mcu cause the previous phases stick to the same formula and phase 4 sure has been switching it up and this is by far my favorite change of tone with the horror elements implemented by Sam Raimi with his style of comedy, the way it’s shot, the music ugh I loved it from all the magic shown off to Wanda being the villain to a 3rd act with demons and zombies loved it.
It's refreshing to see this take. So many people just want to stick to the same safe formula 🙄
@@CrossOutBryce This literally was still the same formula. They just put a new wrapper on it to make you think otherwise, but everything about this movie was predictable, down to the sjw virtue signaling. People get fooled so easily.
@@NovusIgnis what was the sjw virtue signalling in here? Not saying you’re wrong or there wasn’t any I just don’t remember any
@@pig_cakes1368 The Illuminati hated on Strange because he's the real danger not the literal mass murderer with the most powerful evil artifact in her possession. They can literally read his mind and see how much of a threat Wanda really is, but they're just convinced that Strange is the actual problem. This is echoed throughout the movie with things like Dr. Palmer not liking Steven because he always had to be the one in control. And in the finale, everything is solved by Dr. Strange just giving up that control and leaving it all in the hands of America, who can't control her powers. Except she suddenly can, simply because someone told her to believe in herself. And let's not forget that it's Dr. Stranger's movie, but he has to take a backseat in his own movie in order for the day to be saved. You would never have seen this in previous MCU movies.
Thats one example. Another is America Chavez herself, who is an sjw character. She checks off all the boxes. She's not white, part of the LGBullshiT community, and her parents are part of it too(which unironically supports the idea that LGBT people are grooming kids to be like them since both America and her parents are lesbians). America Chavez herself is a character that was created as part of Marvel's woke campaign. She came out around the same time as other characters who placed an emphasis on being women/non-white/LGBT. These characters all had pretty poor numbers when it came to selling comics but instead of Marvel canning them like they should have done and accepting that their fans don't want politicized comics, they just kept pushing them and blaming the poor sales figures on at-right trolls. Other characters created during this campaign are the current Ms. Marvel, Miles Morales's Spider-Man, and Ironheart.
Then there's all kinds of little small woke digs or story notes that popped up throughout the movie. Things like America just subtly sliding in that food should be free for everyone even though she's wrong, or the fact that Scarlet Witch is the enemy and she's such a badass and powerful female. So much so that an entire army of wizards and the Illuminati couldn't defeat her.
There's other little bits and bobs throughout but these were the ones that came to mind. The biggest thing about all of this is that it's never just one thing. That would be too obvious and Disney knows that it would turn people off if they feel like they're being lectured to. So they just slide in a bunch of their political views and talking points and weave them in throughout the story and just hope people don't catch them.
@@NovusIgnis What SJW virtue signaling? I mean, beyond the one mention of America's two moms.
My reactions are always to Eric reacting, his is definitely my favourite to watch, you can read his face like a book. But Aaron has been so funny recently watching trainspotting was hilarious with the needles!!!!
"Not the bees!" "Not the peas!" That did not go unnoticed, Rick, don't worry. Lol
Lmao that Agents of Shield bit was great
AoS was great. Therefore everything about AoS is great.
When the temple fell at the end there was a red flash from inside the rubble...I think that was her powers protecting her...maybe a forcefield or something. And she did come to reason at the end when she realized what she had done, so I think she could come back and completely redeem herself.
Thank you for remembering that Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D cameo😂😂😂😂😂
I was also most surprised by Black Bolt. I was so gobsmacked that I just sat there with my jaw in my lap, completely dumbfounded for a moment.
18:28 I love the reference to agents of shield man
AoS is the best. As it has always been.
Big shouts to Eric for the Deke Squad shirt!
18:24 whoever edited that thank you for that
12:36 Imagine if Wanda was this powerful in Endgame?! She would have destroyed Thanos and his army solo! 🙏🏽
Strongest Avenger confirmed
She kinda did, tho! She was taking down Thanos single-handedly until he decided to «rain fire»!
@@MrChefBoyardee most powerful* strongest is thor
Avengers: There's Thanos!"
Wanda: "What Thanos?"
*Roll Credits*
@@MrNoob-ev4ktWanda is better
18:30
Literally only the REAL ones know bout this 🤌🏾😤💪🏾
Seeing Black Bolt show up in this movie played by Anson Mount who played him in the terrible show makes me happy he’s in the movie but also mad because it means Inhumans is more justified to be canon than Agents of SHIELD.
On the other hand the way Black Bolt is defeated here is just so, _so_ dumb that it almost feels like a joke at the expense of the 'Inhumans' TV show. So maybe this is Feige's way of effectively closing it off as a possibility.
22:55 Rick laughing at someone dying again.
Because ive never seen Wandavision i had no idea that Scarlet Witch was going to be the villain, i just assumed it was going to be a evil Strange from Multiverse or someone else so i was pretty surprised about that
Same. I thought she'll be a villain in first half and then her and strange will fight together agaisnt evil strange
I saw Wandavision and still was pretty surprised
@@DrHeroe then you didn't watch WV😅😅
same, i never watched Wandavision so im like "bitch what's your reasoning" lol. but i feel like even if i watch Wandavision her ambitions wouldn't be any more relatable lol. i loved when Xavier and Mr. Fantastic showed up, but i was kinda disappointed they died so easily, it'd be cool if this was the way to introduce the X-Men and the Fantastic Four into our universe, forcing them in thanks to the multiverse fuckery, but instead we're gonna meet DIFFERENT alternate X-Men and Fantastic Four I GUESS lol. cus there's no way they ain't adding the F4 and the X-M they know what gets ppls money lol.
overall the plot was very lacking, i think if someone loves mindless action (and there's nothing wrong with that) then it's a great movie for them, but if you want good character writing and storytelling it's hard to reccomend lmao it definitely isn't my kinda movie thanks to that. the ending was sorta anticlimactic too. as a horror artist by trade, i appriciate the horror elements and how metal it can get, like zombie Strange using the souls of the damned as his wings of a dark angel, and general body horror stuff. the CGI was CRAZY wonky tho like that surprised me cus the newest Spider-Man had great CGI lol.
I've seen wandavision and her arc in this movie doesn't make any sense, Waldron simply ruined her character and the development she went through in wandavision
The movie was a little short and with some pacing issues but a pretty solid film overall. The ending was weird.
I think if it were longer, it would've suffered more.
ending wasnt weird, it's vague to make you wonder about the next movie.
Calvin: "Thats so metal". Me saying to myself "oh just you wait". Eric: "You have no idea how metal its gonna get". Im just pointing at the screen like "This guy gets it"
44:30 i dont really think she's dead. Most powerfull being killed By Rocks, that doesn't makes sense. Agatha said that her magic can turn on Autopilot, so maybe she teleported
I love the fact that America Chavez, a multiversal traveler, can only make sparks at first with the Sling Ring but Ned was able to make full on portals to where he wanted (albeit a bit of a technicality with how he found the other Peters) with zero practice, even if he did have trouble with closing them. If they ever do make him the Hobgoblin, I hope he's very sorcery-based.
Fun fact: Originally, No Way Home was supposed to come out after Multiverse of Madness. America Chavez was going to go to the Raimiverse & Webbverse to get Maguire & Garfield's Spider-Men to help out the MCU Spider-Man. When the release dates got delayed, they had to rewrite No Way Home to accommodate it. So, they gave Ned magic abilities out of nowhere. The writers were put in a tough position, so it's hard to blame them.
@@ColtonG826 Whoa that’s cool. Is there a source?
@@nognit Well, if I remember correctly, there's some early storyboards about it, try looking for them
@@nognit concept art and the fact this film was supposed to happen before NWH
@@ColtonG826 I mean with what they have now it can just be argued that its simply innate proficiency due to his supposed family. Its not really a big deal tbh
That’s Maria Rambeau, Monica’s mother who was Carol Danvers’ best friend. Which makes more sense as Monica was like, a toddler when Captain Marvel got her powers.
“Keep in mind, this movie is directed by Sam Raimi” (this is probably the most important thing to know going into this movie, your love of his style absolutely makes or breaks this movie)
His style absolutely ruins the movie for anyone who is not a Raimi fan which you may be shocked to discover is actually a really high percentage of MCU fans.
@@SuperDoNotWant Fair point, I changed my wording in my comment to say “your love of his style makes or breaks this movie” 👍 I 100% get why Raimi’s style doesn’t work for others, but it personally works for me, but either are okay!
Err, nope :). Love his style (as I say in another post, for longer than Blind Wave have been alive). Despite that, this is mid-tier MCU for me (it's the Raimi of it all that lifts it _that_ high).
(the script is badly flawed IMO - if America isn't dumb at the wrong time, Wanda is neutralised. If Wong isn't dumb at the wrong time, Wanda is neutralised. If Reed Richards isn't dumb at the wrong time, Wanda is neutralised. Etc. I go back and forth on _sometimes_ wondering if this might be a deep meta comment on horror movies - which famously often only work because about 90% of the characters are cataclysmically stupid - but mostly I just think it's bad writing)
9:28 because whatever her magic creates *IS* real. That's what gets me so angry when people say her kids weren't real because *they were* . They were tangible human beings with their own feelings and minds, as well as hex-vision. Her poeer is spontaneous creation. Jist becausenshe was able to conjure them up spontaneously doesnt make them any less real, and just because they couldn't leave the hex (a boundry she accidentally placed) doesn't mean they didn't exist.
I just love Wanda I want her villain arc or anti hero arc to last a little longer as I know she will be back!
They’re reactions to the ice cream song LMFAOOOO 💀😭😭😭
“I kinda like it.” That’s my best description of this movie. It’s far from my favorite Marvel movie, yet it’s far from being a bad movie.
31:26 I thought the same thing when I saw how decayed Dr. Strange when I saw it in theaters. I thought to myself that there wasn't enough time for him to decay that much. When I watched it on D+ I noticed that in the beginning of the movie when Dr. Strange got stabbed in the leg, the wound started to rapidly decay or get infected. I think the being he fought at the beginning had the power the rapidly decay flesh of it's victims through poison, venom, or magic. I believe that is why Zombie Strange is so decayed even though not alot of time had passed since they buried him.
1:03:55 you guys are confusing Sinister Strange (MOM) and Supreme Strange (What If?). They are different Dr. Stranges.
Some multiverse of madness alright, a world where red means go and green means stop, wooooooah.
Film is shite btw.
I was sad in my theater only me and my cousin laugh and cheered when Bruce Campbell showed up, us two were huge sam rami fans I'm happy he got to direct this. We loved the evil dead vibes.
Great reaction as always. I feel people are missing some details and jumping to conclusions in regards to the story. Yes, on the surface, it seems to have issues and is pushing things to happen a certain way for non-story reasons. However, after I thought about it for a bit after watching this the first time, everything can be explained. Wanda's actions and reasoning is easily explainable as the Darkhold corrupting her desires and twisting her fears and insecurities to the point where her actions are too extreme.
The Illuminati fight is also easily explainable. If you notice, she had magic going during the whole conversation, and taking into account how she circumvented the shield of Kamar-taj, she was obviously weaving a spell that enhanced their arrogance (not that hard of a thing to do, to be honest) and directing their actions subtly to do what she wanted. Especially with Reed. Also, take into account her powers were amplified by both the Darkhold and the Mind Stone. She is the singularly most powerful person in that room.
And finally, the other major contention people have is the end fight when America begins fighting. Dr. Strange's pep talk actually makes sense, since after dealing with Wanda they will need her to come and get him later. Another thing is America realizes she will never beat Wanda as she is at that moment, so she fought smarter and opened up a portal/breach to the home of 838-Wanda.
I feel people have trained themselves to negatively react to things out of Hollywood these days any time something even hints at things leaning one way or the other. At least in this case, people are wrong and Sam Raimi knew exactly what he was doing.
I love the “SCANLANS HAND” reference haha.
I never realized how much I wanted Robbie Reyes as the Darkhold's Guardian until yall played the Agents of Shield theme, and it would make sense if it was a copy and Robbie's Ghost Rider was the guardian as per their arrangement in the show. It would have made a lot more sense than "It was a temple"
There is still one copy of the Darkhold. It is in Stephen’s mind. He has a photographic memory. When he reads something he doesnt forget it so he read the darkhold. And thus his mind is the last copy 🤓
Everything about this comment is good except the emoji.
therefore the 3rd eye
17:50 is my favorite part because of each of y’all’s faces to the boys singing 😂😂😂
I love that rami was able to pull of the cheesy arm coming of the the ground shot in the modern movie!
No... he wasn't.
Dr Strange learns so much about himself from the alternate dimension Strange's and that doesnt get enough credit when it comes to this movie, from Defender Strange thinking he has to be the one to control America's powers to the strange at the end who pretty much felt the same way after Christine's wedding the difference for our strange was america showing up instead of going home and destroying his universe
When Wanda was destroying the temple with her inside, there was a sus flash of red. We also didn't see her die on screen. I refuse to believe she is actually dead. (Plus, Multiverse, so we will absolutely see Wanda again, one way or another.)
Apparently the music fight at the end was a joke idea straight from Danny Elfman, and Raimi and Waldon were like, "Yeah actually that's awesome. Let's do it."
The MCU does Wizard of Oz and Evil Dead. Chainsaw Massacre. Carrie. Jhorror. Lovecraft. Godzilla. Buffy the Vampire Slayer. It's so beautiful. And my heart always breaks at the end when 616 Wanda finally realizes what she's done and you see how desperately she just wants to be with her kids. Magnificent
I've never laughed as hard on a movie until the bee/mis madres scene .Great stuff.
I love the references, especially the ones that involve witches or witchcraft in some way. I feel like the most subtle one is when Snow White was playing on the TV when 838 Wanda’s children saw 616 Wanda and screamed “it’s a witch”; when both movies involved an evil witch trying to kill a young girl.
We all saw how Wanda becoming villain it begins with Pietro's death and it was like witnessing a crash in slow motion for us
“WandaVision is required” lol Sam Raimi didn’t feel the same apparently
What do you mean? Most people I've seen that haven't watched WandaVision have been kinda confused at parts
@@joevictor53 I mean that Sam Raimi didn’t finish watching WandaVision before he directed Multiverse of Madness.
@@MySushiBear Oh okay. Well he clearly meant normal people watching the film. I mean most MCU directors aren't going to be watching everything that came before when they're making something. Like the Russo Bros wouldn't have been able to watch Captain Marvel before making Endgame because it would've basically been done at that point.
I love the look on Eric's face when he knows something good is coming up and is looking forward to the others' reaction to it. 😊
I did not expect that edit @ 18:25 from y’all 😭😭😭 I loved it tho
Yall are forgetting the darkhold corrupts those who use it. So it’s not fair to say she’s a bad or unrelatable villain when the darkhold is using her grief to play out its own dark motives through her. It’s not like she was fully in control of herself.
Here's my favorite MCU movie!!!!!
Never forget the BlindWave reaction to the Shotgun Axe. PEOPLE NEED TO WATCH AGENTS OF SHIELD!
Best superhero show
Strange making a cloak out of the souls of the damned was SO. FREAKING. METAL!
Doctor Strange vs Doctor Strange Music Battle is 100% my favorite battle in the film
I dont get the hate at all for this movie, and I suspect that it will build a greater following as time goes on due to its uniqueness. Sam's style and fan-service is legendary and this movie is no exception. He should be proud of it and fans should enjoy it for what it is: A campy superhero movie with all of the Evil Dead ridiculousness.
people want cameos more than a good movie nowadays, it's messed up
it was a fun movie but imo, it had parts of bad writing
@@charlesgonzalez1406 if anything this is a movie with cameos thats not good wtf😂
@@Metal.combat A large majority of people didn't like the movie because it didn't have enough of exploring the multiverse with lots of cameos along the way. And how is it a bad movie?
Edit: also the only cameos we had in this movie was the Illuminati who got murdered in like a span of 10 minutes so it doesn't really have a lot of unnecessary cameos
love the way their names spell React. Rick, Eric, Aaron, Calvin, The blind wave
These two guys again.. How could you avoid all the spoilers? I'm impressed 😂
Even if I tried to avoid all social medias, I'd probably accidentally hear my friends talk about the movie.
Just don't have friends 😏 or friends that know you're avoiding spoilers. I went months avoiding spoilers for Far From Home so it's doable.
@@ImAlsoMerobiba yup. Its exactly doable. I have just not used twitter and I am able to avoid spoilers for months
17:41 _"Not the peas!"_ ─Right there with you *Rick.* 😄
20:12 _"The theme!"_ ─Yep, can never forget Whitney Houston's _"I'm Your Baby Tonight."_
Dormammu getting "incursioned" on by Chthon would be so interesting. It would make sense since we saw Clea (who is Dormammu's niece) in the mid-credits scene bringing Doctor Strange to the Dark Dimension to help out. Imagine in, in order to save the universe/multiverse, Strange has to save his archenemy, Dormammu, from Chthon or another huge threat.
That music fight is my favorite fight in the whole film!!! Love it:)
I liked the movie overall, but had a few gripes. Mostly minor, but the biggest is just Wanda's mindset is so different from where she ended up in WandaVision. At the end of WandaVision she realizes the error of her ways in hurting others to get back what she lost and appears to accept her loss. I get that she was then corrupted by the Darkhold, but having that take place mostly off-screen is jarring. Not to speak of frustrating having to essentially see her go through the same journey as in WandaVision, just with higher stakes. It didn't really feel like the two projects were coordinated very well as the overall character development throughout feels unnatural.
Also I can't imagine it's the last time we see her. If that's Wanda's exit from the MCU, it's gotta be one of the most anticlimactic fails for such a huge/beloved character.
It's clear at the end of the show she never accepted anything really. It wasn't a happy ending. She accepted that she was hurting people and that she should stop but it wasn't an easy decision. She was still very much so longing for her children and wanted to understand her powers. Then the book she chooses to learn from shows her she could have her children properly and then the movie. Though I mostly agree about the off screen corruption.
That was my issue. They make it seem that she learns some lesson at the end of WandaVision and when we see her next she regressed 110%. Corruption isn’t something instant and that’s what it felt like regardless if they had a shot at the end of WandaVision that teased something corruptive.
I think The Hobbit did corruption well with Thorin. It was subtle and creeping. Not subtle enough where you’d miss it, but not screaming in your face and out of nowhere.
'At the end of WandaVision she realizes the error of her ways in hurting others to get back what she lost and appears to accept her loss.'
Really? The last shot of her is her looking through the multiverse for her children using the darkhold, that doesn't seem particularly accepting ^^
The issue with this movie is Wanda shouldn't have even been involved, or at the very least she should have just been a sidekick. America absolutely shouldn't have been invovled at all, but they threw her in as part of this whole new woke agenda they're pushing. Nobody knows or gives a crap about America Chavez.
We should have gotten Mordo or may e Nightmare as the villain. Classic Dr. Strange villains that are actually established and have a story to tell. Not to mention you can still play the multiverse angle with Nightmare since they introduced the idea that dreams are windows to other realities. Nightmare could have played with that and then we could see foreshadowing to Wanda becoming a villain.
That would be way more effecting than what we got, but Disney needed to show a strong I dependant woman who's a badass and they needed to shit on straight white men as much as possible. That's why in every universe Dr. Strange is apparently a problem and that's why America couldn't be on the screen two seconds without mentioning her mom's are lesbians.
@@NovusIgnis ha, you actually use woke :') I love when they throw these things in just to piss off gammons like you
I like the alternate universe where each time something turns out wrong, I'm like "nope".
Time freezes, a menu appears. I select "Load", choose a checkpoint and get back in time a few minutes before.
Dreamt about that a few times. Quite handy, gotta say.
I watched this with my dad for the first time since seeing it in theatres on my own and I honestly don't think it's bad. It has issues sure but I really think it's overhated by some. I mean people expected a bit too much when it came to the multiverse and for the movie to be cameo central which is probably why its divisive amongst audiences and fans. I really enjoyed it but I do acknowledge that it isn't perfect and could have been something more.
Sure, a bit more "multiverse" and "madness" in this supposed "Multiverse of Madness" would've been great. But i'd settle for just a script that doesn't have so many stupid, contrived plot points (if Wong doesn't give up the Darkhold temple for instance then that's it, end of Wanda's threat to the multiverse. Reed explaining how to defeat Black Bolt, America pausing to gaze into the reflection when she's literally just been told to cover them up, our intrepid trio pausing in the tunnels to give Wanda a chance to catch-up/jump-scare them etc. Dumbity dumb dumb).
So no, for me the main problem was it doesn't do the basics of storytelling well.
@@anonymes2884 I get what you mean, Michael Waldron isn't the best writer on the planet. I guess if the story was streamlined a bit more and a few tweaks here and there, then the movie could've gone a lot smoother.
@@anonymes2884 I never once thought Wanda's threat to the multiverse would be over if Wong didn't give up the Darkhold temple and neither should you. She was literally in the place where the sorcerers go to train. America gazing at the reflection isn't what caused Wanda to come in, and the pause in the tunnels is used for dramatic effect, also inconsequential to the movie. There are a lot of stuff you have to accept when you watch a movie, and that's suspension of disbelief and people have various tolerances towards it, but what you're describing here aren't "plot holes", you can't tell me those alone or even together ruined the movie for you.
Dr Strange in the Multiverse of Madness is a perfectly adequate movie exploring the themes of "being the one holding the knife", loss and grief. Every major character experiences loss in the movie, and they regret it and think to how life could've been - they just respond differently, hence the knife theme.
It *does* do the basics of storytelling well.
@@CDexie "I never once thought Wanda's threat to the multiverse would be over if Wong didn't give up the Darkhold temple..."
Great, that plot point worked for _you_ then.
"...the pause in the tunnels is used for dramatic effect"
Sure but when a plot point is very obviously _just_ for dramatic effect that's bad writing (IMO obviously). Part of the art of writing is to make it _feel_ like things are happening as a _natural_ result of what's happened before in the story + what we know about the characters. In other words to avoid plot or character beats feeling _contrived_ by the writer _despite_ the fact that some part of us - at least if we're mentally healthy - _knows_ everything actually IS contrived by the writer (plus, in a collaborative medium, directors, actors etc.). The moments I list (among others) felt purely about getting to the next moment _in the script_ (a jump scare in the tunnel case) rather than organically experiencing the next moment _in Doctor Strange's story_ - each contributed to breaking the illusion that this is a real world, with real people and actual stakes we should care about.
That absolutely _isn't_ "inconsequential to the movie" because not breaking that suspension of disbelief is everything in storytelling - without that the whole thing is just an exercise in moving pieces around a board, interspersed with pretty visuals.
(themes are great but you need to get the basics right first and avoiding "And then this happened. And then this happened..." writing is one of the basics)
"There are a lot of stuff you have to accept when you watch a movie, and that's suspension of disbelief and people have various tolerances towards it..."
Right, exactly. I think maybe you're focusing on "have to accept" when i'd say it's "various tolerances" that's actually the key here - "suspension of disbelief" is called that partly because it's a balancing act, it can be broken and what it takes to break it is subjective.
"...but what you're describing here aren't "plot holes"..."
Err, I didn't claim they _were_ "plot holes", I said "contrived plot points" above. Different things.
"...you can't tell me those alone or even together ruined the movie for you."
I mean, I _am_ telling you that so clearly I can :). Or actually, "ruined" _may_ be too harsh but certainly "relegated to low to mid-tier MCU" is fair. Put it this way, watching the movie was more frustrating than fun for me so not a positive experience _on balance_ but certainly not entirely negative either. If that's "ruined" in your view then OK.
(and _obviously_ it's all those moments - among others - taken together. How else does a movie affect us except as a collection of moments that contribute to a whole ?)
The first segment of "Fantasia" was a kind of attack by animation whist 'Toccata and Fugue in D Minor' by Bach plays. (It is fun to play and not too hard.)
More musical animation used as a weapon recently: Doctor Who: "Devil's Chord".
I really enjoyed this movie and saw it twice in theaters.
I think Wanda is understandable if not relatable. She went directly from losing her kids in her world to using the Darkhold and find those same kids in other worlds. If she’d had the time, and maybe therapy, to work through it she’d have seen that there was also a her in those worlds she’d be at best killing and at worst be taking the kids from.
Also, depending on how Incursions work it might be impossible for her to be with her kids. Them in her world or her in theirs could cause an incursion. Meaning she’d either have to abandon those kids and go to another pair, or just travel the multiverse destroying universes.
However since America doesn’t cause incursions, it might have to do with more than just dreamwalking or staying in another universe for too long, but what is done while in another universe.
America doesn't cause incursions because there is only 1 of her out of all the universes.
I fucking love this movie, horror Wanda and the Cape of the Damned are some of my favourite things I've ever seen in the MCU!
Horror Wanda? More like Mass-Murderer. All that death for a bunch of fake kids.