Neo Smith , what ? You obviously didn’t pay close attention to my post. IN 3 decades. 30 years. For 30 years HD was the AMERICAN LEADER IN MOTORCYCLE SALES. This stat has nothing to do with used bike sales or hipsters or any other such nonsense. If you want to make an argument, make it mean something.
The top selling motorcycles in the WORLD is the Yamaha FZ07 and the Honda NC750. Economical, practical, efficient and reliable. You know the saying "if it's in the shop, you ain't riding." That's what I want no hassle vehivle.
Expensive, iffy reliability, aging customer base, serious competition, hugely expensive dealer structure, corporate debt. And to millennials, HD is a brand for rich, pudgy, middle aged dudes who do biker outlaw cosplay on the weekend.
I disagree on reliability. I own several Harley bikes and yes while the older pre EVO bikes needed more maintenance than normal, the new ones EVO and up are pretty solid. On everything else I agree with you and I am a millennial. They do need to shred the price down and a couple models too because there area ton just like a restaurant menu, it needs to be solid but not several pages long.
@ Crateix, agreed. I have only owned the TC and M8. Would love to have a EVO kick around town bike. I feel the M8 is a great motor that still gives the Harley feel but smoother. Most of these replies are from those who have never owned or ridden H-D.
The problem with Harley Davidson is that they massively overcharge for motorcycles that are nowhere close to being worth their high prices. Also, the millennial generation has far too few people who can afford such extravagances like motorcycles, golf, boating, etc.
@Doctor Detroit I mean why would I want a car when I can just get an Uber or use public transport but I mean I'll probably still get a bike just cuz I like them I just don't see a point wasting money on a whole bunch of useless stuff.
@Doctor Detroit I don't know about that? At the moment they are expending quite a bit of energy. It's hard to call any group lazy that stays up all night moving tons of bricks, gasoline and milkshakes along with repackaging their own crap into balloons (that MUST be tedious, time consuming and messy? I dare you to try it! Lol) for ammunition instead of sleeping? That's a LOT of work and conviction to get a message across that most Americans know is a huge false flag operation.
In the last 32 years I have purchased 4 New Harleys off the show room floor,.. I had trouble with every one,.. Still I remained loyal,. Until a road trip back in 2002 across Canada from my home town of Houston Texas,.. After that trip I sold that Road King and purchased a 2003 Goldwing,.. There comes a time in your life when being Cool is not that important,... Dependability and comfort out weighs cool by a huge margin.
Overheard an old biker to a proud young owner of a new 750 Harley Street, "huh... not a real Harley". That's part of the problem. Not just brand snobbery, model snobs. I love my "other" brand.
Yep, that's a great way to alienate the younger crowd. Most of us started on whatever crappy old bike we could afford. Those guys have forgotten the thrill of riding and have this 30K dollar bike that they ride twice a year but only if their wife lets them. They're miserable and only want to drag others down to their level. Sucks but there it is.
@@jamesgang6206 I bought my first bike (a 46 Harley 61) in '56 and for about 16 years wouldn't even look at anything else, owning four different Harleys. Then, in 1972, my brother in law rode into my driveway on a brand new Honda 750. Took it for a short ride....goodbye Harley...and I've never looked back! I currently own two Honda ST 1100s.
Harley doesn't have world wide appeal and demand. They are a niche motorcycle for Americans who want a big, loud, cruiser/tour bike. Problem for HD is that pretty much all of the riders who want a big ass Harley already have one.
@@russmode Not really. They have a small high revving V-twin that nobody is buying. They wasted a lot on its development when they should simply have improved the Sportster and produce it at a more competitive price buy building it in the far east
@Bun Bun High revving engines are less likely to meet future emission regulations as there is less time for the fuel to fully combust. Already the fuel mixture is so lean that there is a gradual move by manufacturers towards increasing cc's to give the same power output as last years model. Furthermore aftermarket items are sometimes required to improve low speed throttle control. We are already lucky not to have to undergo emissions testing for MOT where de-cat and these other improvements would result in a test failure. Given that in the UK reduced speed limits to improve air quality are currently being trialled I suggest that sport bikes are not the future.
John Roe my ultra performs perfectly...the point was Harley owners want to customize their bikes either cosmetically or for performance and not because they don’t perform properly just everyone has a different taste
Q1: What do Harley's and hound dogs have in common? A1: Both prefer to move in the back of a pick-up truck then move under their own power. Q2: What is the difference between a vacuum cleaner and a Harley? A2: The dirt bag of a vacuum cleaning rides inside out of sight, where as a Harley's dirt bag rides out on top and in full view of the public.
@@pakitin The only one I would own one is if I won one in a lottery.....and I would quickly sell the silly thing and buy a proper bike....most likely another Triumph.....
They had Buell motorcycle up until 2009 which was apparently badly outselling HD itself among the younger bike crowd. So they shut it down to focus on HD. Apparently that was a bad idea.
Had a Buell. Didn’t have the magic handling people talked about. Seemed clumsily engineered, and where a GSXR750 of the era took a light touch and felt like riding a race horse, the Buell took much more firm brake and steering inputs and felt like riding a rhinoceros. Kept getting recall notices for quite a while after I sold it. It did sound cool, and I have to give them credit for the power they achieved from a Sportster engine, and for having the courage to step out of their core market.
I had a couple of Harleys when I was younger. For the past 10 years I've been riding a Yamaha V-Star. It does everything that a Harley will do for $10K less, and it is extremely dependable. Other than normal maintenance, the only thing that I've *ever* had to do is put a new starter clutch in it. After 10 years, that is incredible - especially compared to HD. Once upon a time, the "Made In America" thing might have been worth putting up with higher prices and breakdowns, but Harleys are now "Assembled In America". Most of the parts come from Mexico, Taiwan and other foreign countries. If those jobs aren't going to my fellow Americans, I see no point in being loyal to HD. Especially when you can get a Japanese bike much cheaper that is every bit as good - or better - than a Harley.
I sold my Harley for a V Star as well, the best decision I ever made. No more “Harley tax” every time I go to the dealer and I don’t have to put up the the “I am a bad ass” overweight, goatee wearing, tattooed clientele that need to get a life and education.(and that was just the women)
@@Downs4 I have a 2003 V-Star 1100 Classic. Bought it with 1900 miles on it for $3500. It was barely broken in with those miles. Pretty sure it'll be the last bike I ever own.
Before 2001 you were put on a waiting list to get a Harley in most places, after the anniversary Harley simply flooded the market resulting in a resale devaluation and a surplus of bikes for a limited amount of riders. Then 2008 came along and simply wrecked the recreational market.
"Then 2008 came along and simply wrecked the recreational market" Only for Harley Davidson and perhaps Indian, the other brands: KTM, BMW, Kawasaki, Triumph, and Ducati all had record profits after 2008 while Harley didn't.
@@robertp457 And Triumph (my favorite brand and current ride), is the come back story of the Motorcycle worlds....all but dead by the 80's, resurrected in the 90's and been growing since then......although....I am a bit disappointed with the new Trophy models......they like the Honda ST and Kawasaki Concour's have become rather bloated....the earlier models were a lot in keeping with the Sport-Touring philosophy......now these bike lean a bit too much towards the Touring side of the equation.
Strange thing .. here in Denmark, and I suppose the rest of Europe as well (?), used Harleys are still sold at sky high prices. Maybe it's time to dump those surplus Harleys into shipping containers and move them across the "pond" ?:P Edit: On second thought, if a bike doesn't have ABS or haven't been registered in an EU country prior, then there is ZERO chance of getting a plate on it. New EU regulation if I recall correctly.
Gumpy Old Bugger true but harleys bought in the USA are still made in the USA and not made in Thailand like new triumphs which is a sacrifice triumph made and a sacrifice most Americans aren’t cool with making. Now if Harley decided to shift production to Asia and cut the cost of a new bike by 30-40% and actually pass that savings on to the consumer THEN people might overlook where it was made. But we all know they would just keep the prices high and pocket the extra cash and then nobody would buy them because they weren’t made in the USA anymore.
@@Jay-bw3fl sorry, but new Harleys are ASSEMBLED in the US, a fair part of their parts and components come from overseas suppliers, you would be surprised how much of percentage that "ALL AMERICAN" Harrley is actually from China and other 3rd world nations. And you are right, even though HD is sourcing cheap components and parts, they are not passing on that savings to their customers, and this is not a viable business plan for the long term given the rapidly aging of their core customer base. In the past 40 years, HD has made some very questionable business decisions that damn near lead to the demise of the firm and they are still continuing on with that tradition. Personally I can't forgive them for killing off my beloved 750's back in the early 80's..
Harley-Davidson basically niched themselves into decline. Nowadays, millennials just see Harleys as loud obnoxious machines ridden by gruffy troublemakers and they don't want to be associated with that crowd. Furthermore, the current generation of available customers don't have money to buy what they see as luxury vehicles either let alone something so premium priced like Harleys. In general, internal combustion engine motorcycles (99% of the market) are hard to learn as well and requires constant practice and high initial investment of time to learn to safely ride. My bet is to short Harley-Davidson stock.
That’s funny. Most see millennials as loud, obnoxious troublemakers with whom they wouldn’t be associated even at gunpoint, who saddled themselves with so much student loan debt in pursuit of worthless degrees after four changes of major that they’ll never have the resources required to afford a Harley like those gruff troublemakers.
@@Mortimer_Duke Even most older generations would see pursuing a university education as a more worthwhile use of one's money than buying a Harley. Indeed almost anyone anywhere would.
"Nowadays, millennials just see Harleys as loud obnoxious machines ridden by gruffy troublemakers and they don't want to be associated with that crowd." I don't think that has anything to do with it. If a person compared motorcycles on paper no Harley Davidson scores well on price vs what the rider gets. Also with a lot of people growing up with tech Harley Davidsons are only just retro, but actual nostalgia. Finally their motorcycles at entry level prices are terrible their entire Street line could be the worst new motorcycle for sale today. The $5k BMW G310 is much better than the $3k more expensive Street 750. Finally the 1986 Harley Davidson Sportster has barely changed since it came out and the 2020 models are nearly the same as they were over forty years ago.
Not just millennial's.....even gray haired old farts like me see them as wanna be bikes, ridden by weekend warriors who like to cosplay as 1%'ers just to be seen at the local Starfucks half a mile from their homes.
The guys who cried and moaned that the VROD was crap, were the same ones who ran Buell out. Same 70 and 80 year olds who don't buy motorcycles anymore.
@@carlosalmeida4415 Could be, the fit and finish just scream high quality. But I hear that some of that has gone down over the years. (well and during the AMF years) The Street models I tried I hated.
@@phillipmain6475 I have friends with Harleys. I'm not a fan. I loved Honda v4's as a kid (vf4). and the ST's after. I'm not a Harley fan. Always Honda. But to each their own. right?
It appealed to the dudes that came back from the Vietnam War I think. Also for my generation firstly I don't have the money to afford the bike also even if I did I rather buy a car with it or make a down payment on a deposit for a house. Also young couples starting a family will be shopping for a suitable car not a bike lol. And in London if you don't have off street parking in a secure place 😂😂😂 rip your bike. And our weather is so bad you just can't justify a bike that price. With the popularity of scooters and electric bikes that is the nail in the coffin. It's not Harleys fault it's just that the world has changed. Rip.
That's always been the case. Most young people starting families don't have money nor time for new, touring motorcycles. You can still pick up a nice, smaller, used one to enjoy now and then. When you get older and have more time off and disposable income, you can step into a new tourer. I rode for over 4 decades before I bought one. And I'm really glad I got it. Sporty bikes have their place, but so does being able to go places comfortably, take the boss, and all her stuff.
Always preferred walk while I adventuring or on vacation. Allows me to enjoy the scenery more, at my own leisurely pace. Plus motorcycles are an unnecessary purchase for a family ov four. And my uncle died in harley accident, so for me they will always be associated with that. And bikers.
It is true. Especially in North America with its wide open spaces requiring long commute distances. N. Americans are crazy for cars & SUVs. Also N. America has its share of bad weather especially winters except for places like central/south California and Arizona with year-round riding. The last nail into Harley's coffin is the rise of "ridesharing". Ride sharing will up-end the entire world not just motorcycles especially when good self-driving technology arrives. By then, a robotically driven rideshare across town may be only a few dollars! So skipping vehicle ownership altogether along with the associated maintenance, insurance, & gas becomes an easy financial decision. Especially considering most consumer vehicles sit parked and *unused* for 99% of the time!
Current CEO doesn't understand his product or core customer. The marketing department needs to be fired & get some people in there that understand the market, the product & clientele.
When you put a Dealership Network together that can be best described as " Just quit whining and give us your fucking money", and starting next week there will be a cover charge for the show room! Customers never see the Factory or it's workers, all they see is the dealer and they are horrifying.
Harley is vicious with their trademark. An iconic diner here in my town got a cease and desist order from the company over a sign that had been an icon for the place for over 40 years. Luckily a local Harley franchise stepped in and sponsored the sign itself though, but it made me loose alot of respect for a brand I've always revered.
This has nothing to do with harley and everything to do with corporate. The only difference here is the very long standing existance of their icons in pop culture, and the culture that exists around it. Any company regardless of what you think of them, must guard their trademark. IT does not matter who it is, if they do not do so, they lose it. You can literally lose the total rights to your brand name if you do not treat it as such. Harley does not want to bully people out, they want their customers to be able to wear their logo as much as they'd like. But they cant just let it slide for the sake of a customer interest that isn't using it without permission. Because if they did they'd eventually lose legal rights to own it. They have no choice. Its a capitalism issue, not a harley issue. Acting like it's just harley is incredibly biased and dishonest.
As a white 50-year-old male (their prime demographic), Harleys just don't appeal to most riders anymore. On average, motorcycles have become lighter, faster, more comfortable, and more reliable. But Harleys are still heavy, slow, uncomfortable, and unreasonably expensive. They just don't appeal to younger riders (and most of us older ones either). And let's not forget about how rude so many Harley riders are (you know, too cool and badass to wave to other motorcyclists). Who wants to be a part of that?
another factor to consider is the way clients reported they are being treated in sales floors , like they are lucky to even be allowed in , many feel they are treated instaly like they don't belong money bracket wise.
Lower the price and it'd still be heavier and slower with less tech than it's competitors. Maybe they'll cry and ask for another import tax on their competitors.
@@fastone136 Was that a racist reference? Kind of a stretch don't you think, I don't think skateborders when I think hispanic. If you're gonna be a racist prick at least be right about it.
Motorcycling in the US is down in general, not just Harley. Young folks like sitting around playing games and watching porn, not riding. My buddy who’s a dealer says, bike sales are way down, but they sell a bunch of jet skis and shitty jet boats. It seems there’s always been highs and lows with motorcycling. Hopefully it will have a resurgence.
True..Motorcycling sales are down across the board. But Harley niched itself into trouble by snubbing their nose at other age groups and refusing to innovate with new products. Plus their bikes are way overpriced. And they flooded the market with used models. How come Indian can produce the Scout for about 10K?? And it's a damn good machine. Technology advanced. Water cooled & 100 HP.. A better more rounded bike than a sportster. You can ride a scout all day and it won't beat you up. They ignored the obvious for decades & now the chickens have come home to roost. The clientele they catered to while ignoring all else is getting older. There is a price to pay for being arrogant, overpriced. And refusing to offer newer innovating products and change with the times..
Heavy, expensive, low tech, representing people with ED, proud and guzzler, it also had been associated with many polarizing political figures and groups that are hostile to particular groups of people. It has made it self more and more of a bad brand and image. With the pandemic and poor economy, people will be looking for easy to maintain , light, reliable and not a guzzler.
Absolutely correct. For some reason every time I hear of a biker being racist it is always someone on a HD. The image association needs to be broken, but i'm guessing a lot fo their clients would go bananas on Fox News if HD openly distanced themselves from them.
Priced comparable to BMW and the quality is there in terms of build and reliability. However BMW twins have 130 hp, premium brakes and suspension. For my 20k I don’t like feeling I didn’t get the best of everything. Btw I have owed 10 Harley’s since 1991. I am switching to BMW. Primarily for safety. Harley needs to up their game.
Anyone who can afford to buy a motorcycle (any brand) can afford a Harley Davidson. The used market is full of slightly used yet extremely affordable HD's. Mine is 21 years old and still gives me all the throttle therapy I need :-)
I’m in my 20s and I know plenty of people that want/own Harleys, but as you said they’re all use motorcycles. New Harley bikes are too expensive for what you get as far as technology goes. Look at companies like Triumph who have a sweet spot of a premium product with modern technology, retro style, and a reasonable price.
40 Years ago, the US gov imposed a 40% tarif on HD's competition. They had 40 years to learn how to make a good bike and still failed. I wonder how great my Gold Wing or my Triumph Tiger would be if they did not have a 40% penalty to deal with.
well. now with the japenese keeping on improving their bikes. they literally rendered HD useless in everyway possible. HD quality control is so horrible that i wouldn’t even dare comparing it tothe worst japanese bikes 4 decades older of the age of harleys
The slide will continue for HD, we saw Mercedes Bends expanding its sales and doing well after introducing the C Class models (not made in Germany and therefore cheaper prices) and hence selling to the wider mass market. HD is going to continue and expand targeting to the richer/ more financially well off person. It's not going to turn out well. In Australia, HD has already admitted the Live Wire is not intended for the mass market - at AUD50k, it's not going to sell in great numbers in my opinion also, even though it's fast and handles great and is a fantastic going by all reviews. Having the all electric bike in its arsenal seems to be more about meeting some kind of EU standard requirement rather than going for good sales targets. Right now, HD has arguably the best electric bike on the market, imagine how well it will sell if they offered it at a more competitive price. They finally have a bike that's superior in just about all things compared to the Asian brands and what do they do? Price themselves out of the market.
nevillegreg1 I’d have bought a livewire in a heartbeat... if it were a better price. I’m still considering an energica. If I decide on an ICE bike, the Indian scout bobber or the triumph bobber FTC seem a better bang for the buck than anything HD has to offer. They’re a premium brand in name only I’m afraid.
It always comes down to the price. You can maybe overlook the fact that a Harley is clunky and uncomfortable to ride because it's iconic, but the price is so high it's not worth it. Younger riders who have never ridden one will hate them; this is why they can't get younger customers. I am older now and I rode a Sportster for a long time. I have recently sold it and now I am looking for something cheaper and just fun to ride; I don't want to have to go to the service department and be looked down on because I am not riding a big twin monstrosity. I just want to ride. I like the fun of it and I like the better gas mileage and the economy of riding. Harley is not economical at all. In the end, if they don't lower their price points, they are pricing themselves out of business. Icon or not.
@@tayloriginals999 You make some interesting points. A young rider coming off a Jappa will not be impressed, even on the newer M8 Softails. My wife loved the smoothness of my Triumph Trophy. She was not over the moon when I went back to HD, even on the apparent (BS) smooth M8 motor. HD made a huge mistake when they intentionally left some vibration in the M8 motors based on old fart customer feedback during testing and pre-release of the new M8. It was an opportunity to move into this century and they didn't take it.
And he utterly missed WHY Harley disappeared. Tried Charging way too much money for a common ass bike to common ass people.... who knew, common ass people who used to buy a common ass good enough bike, do not buy luxury items...
@cvh mplsmn they have had 5 straight years of downward sales. It is going to be 6 too lol. Look at their pathetic stock price. They aren't coming back any time soon.
I'm a white 58 year old male that loves the styling of the Deluxe and Heritage, but I'm buying a Goldwing next because Harleys are way overpriced for what you get. And the dealer treats you like they are doing you a favour selling you that overpriced Harley stuff.
HD should capitalize on their brand recognition by expanding to new lines and new divisions; HD mowers and lawn tractors, HD generators, HD outboards, HD snow mobiles, HD off-road four wheelers, HD Marine products, HD power tools, etc....
well they need to make reliable motorcycles and not have overly priced motorcycles and parts after all people are now more budget smart than ever before and are realizing harley's are severely overpriced for what you get when you can get a japanese motorcycle for cheaper that's nicer
Agreed, most of there bikes are crap. I've been riding for 20 years. You couldn't give me a Harley. Nearly all imported bikes are superior to them. Along with the image that goes along with Harley, I'll never own one
@@jimmybe64What does the length of time you've been riding have anything to do with how reliable HD are? My friend's Harley has been in the shop more this year than it's been on the road and Harley couldn't figure out what was wrong with it or fix it. Objectively they are terrible value. If they were actually worth their price I'd own one, but I'm not going to buy a premium priced motorcycle that needs at least 10% of its parts replaced with good ones. Someone offered me a 2019 Roadster for $3k under MSRP and I turned it down, because I'd have to spend $4k or more making it like it should have been when it left the factory. Buell figured out how to get power from that aging Evo engine, but Harley seems to have forgotten how Buell got it, well sort of. Their catalog of after market parts does have an upgrade kit they will sell you for your already paid for motorcycle. They won't offer it as a factory option, because it makes them a lot more money that way.
@@robertp457 your the one telling everyone how long you have never owned a Harley, 20 years I think you said. Now you are second telling me about your mate. As I said my bikes have never let me down. Japanese and British (Thai) have. But you are the Harley expert, not me so there you go
It's so simple, and Harley seems confused. 1.) Build parallel twin adventure bikes. 2.) Recreate the 1934 Henderson infinitely smooth inline 4 motorcycle with an overdrive transmission (to compete with the Rocket III from Triumph). 3.) Make the motorcycles 40% less expensive. 4.) Make a parallel twin cafe racer motorcycle with a 650cc oil cooled engine with 67 horsepower, and inverted forks. 5.) Make an inexpensive electric motorcycle with really shitty batteries, and horrendously short range in stock form, for a very shitty low price, targeted to new motorcycle riders who want a high tech motorcycle, and the Harley name, and a reliable commuter bike that is very fast. It needs to be reliable. 6.) Make a new permanent inline 4 cylinder model of engine, like the Suzuki Bandit 1250, with ridiculous torque, and extreme smoothness. Make it sound like a Volkswagen 2.0L 16 valve from the 1980's, burbly, raspy, nasty, and scary. This will be a new flagship engine, and will bring in an incredible influx of new customers. Harley needs 4 cylinder engines, period. The days of building one old fashion product, has come to an end.
I just got my brand new Softail Slim since R18 from BMW is still in production next year. This is my 2nd Harley and im thankful for it. For its price its just right. 1750cc and loving it. Most comments here dont have motorcycles
Insanely expensive bikes and parts/accessories. No value for the money spent. Arrogant customer service. Poor HP and TQ compared to industry competitors. In UAE these already expensive stuff is marked by 40% more price and then sold!!!!
Yes, they're expensive and over priced but so is everything else, but Harley catches all the flak it seems. Why is no one constantly bitching on how expensive pickups are nowadays, or for that matter boats ,planes, ect everything else that I can't afford either.
@@sebastiangeorge7714 You are right, that probably is the reason. That is a 44 year old white guy riding it, however. And he stole it, so he got it cheap. And he wasn't worried about maintaining it.
I only have a few thoughts on this(and this being just another internet comment, it's gonna get picked apart, it's my opinion). 1) Snobbery: Harley is struggling to get new riders, and you have these older dudes acting pissy because they see riders on Sportster and Streets, and other smaller bikes. Solution to this is simple. Just be glad they're on a Harley! If you want the company to survive, you can't expect everyone to be riding huge baggers/dad glides, especially as beginner bikes. The thing these other companies have is variety. Not to mention that yes, the street line is specifically built small for smaller riders. Plus guys that I know around my age (early 30s) happen to like dynas, and Forty Eights. 2) Technology (or lack thereof). I'm all about a "pure" riding experience, but there's no excuse to paying an extra $799+ for basic safety features like ABS when literally every other company has that as standard on even their cheapest bikes. No, all Harley's don't need navigation displays and ohlins suspension, and LEDs, but at least have better suspension and breaking. The only reason the Yamaha Bolt exist is because Harley didn't turn the Sportster into that 15 years ago. And the Sportster Roadster, while impressive, has the stuff that early 2000s jap bikes had. Which leads to 3) marketing. This is where I'm kinda with the majority on this one. Yes Harley has a target market and core customer, but those customers won't be around forever. Harley did a good thing by reinventing the Fat Bob as this post apocalyptic/sci fi inspired machine. Same with the FXDR. Very good. But also it would do some good to keep up with their competition. Triumph, Yamaha, Honda, Ducati, BMW, and even Indian are cashing in on the "neo-retro" craze. While I'm glad Harley just let the cafe racer thing pass, they would be killing it if they brought back the Sportster XLR 1200. It's basically the Ducati scrambler before it came out, and the Indian FTR 1200 with more known heritage. If they made that with an updated engine, they'd be selling like crazy
When i was trading my sportster in couple months ago for the 2020 softail standard. Those guys that would bash the sportsters/ street 500/750s couldn't even ride their giant ass bikes. They would be duck walking the fucking thing everywhere. I really like HD but if i could go back in time, i would have gotten a zx6r before the sportster lol. 25 btw
Harley is pulling out of India. They tried to convince us, the Indians, with their cool macho-look motorcycles but we are still50 years away from the time when Harley becomes a common commodity in our country. Till then we may have to say goodbye to Harley.
Harley's biggest issue is its brand and what its associated with, evidence of that is in the comments. A lot of what people think Harley is just isnt true with some of their newer models. Unfortunately they still have the overpriced, old man bike stigma. I've recently purchased a m8 Street bob and it's fantastic. Price is comparable if not cheaper than rivals bikes of the same catergory (Indian, triumph) , and the torque is fantastic. Harley really needs a marketing campaign to shift the stigma. If you're a biker who likes to sit and compare numbers they aren't the bike for you. It is true of the cosplayers in the weekend though, when I go near a harley showroom I'm usually the youngest by about 20 years
Harley has long embraced the association with outlaw lifestyle, rebellion, and 1% biker clubs. That may play well for the dentist that wants to play bad boy biker on the weekends, but the younger generation sees the non-inclusion, racism, and criminal behavior associated with some elements of the motorcycle community. If that weren't enough, they then see older technology at high prices. Harley makes some great bikes, but they've prioritized selling motorcycles as the price of entry to a lifestyle and an image-rather than just focusing on selling a bike. The image is outdated, and they need to figure out how to market nostalgia and heritage in a way that's also inclusive. There's a reason Indian is increasing market share.
I’m confused by all the hate directed at H-D. I am relatively young, just bought a new Harley, am a liberal, loving, assistant director of a school for kids with learning disabilities, and I abhor the rebel attitude. I love the heritage and history of the brand. The bike I bought is well made and rides like a dream. The marketing is outdated. The leadership stinks. The bikes don’t.
@@matthewcampbell930 Some people hate just to hate. It is fair to speculate how some aspects of the marketing or the mentality of some owners are going to put off people that might normally consider the brand. In our modern world of identity politics, there are going to be a lot of people that can't separate a product from an image as you have done. Harleys have come a long way in quality and performance. There was a time where they were unreliable and poorly built yet sold for a premium price on account of heritage. While quality has improved, that stigma is still going to linger in the minds of many.
A lot of what people are saying about Harleys in these comments just aren't true. For quite a few years now they've been just as reliable as other brands and they're very comfortable. Also all that weight is down low so it practically drives itself, it doesn't feel as heavy as they are and Harleys are actually easy to ride as a result. They just need to fire their marketing team and fight off the stigmas
We rented three Harleys for a ten day cruise around Florida in the 90s. It was fun to try, but holy crap did i ever love getting back on my Yamaha at home. Maybe the Livewire will save them, but i wouldn't bet on it.
Bikes are cheap on gas by nature , why get a electric that cost $10,000 more with a rang of 100 miles and a 45 minute recharge time. There goes a road trip.
2017 I bought a Road Glide Special, 35k... I bought it because Harley just came out with the Milwaukee 8. I waited to buy the bike until the new motor came out because Traditionally Harley only changes their motor every 10 or 12 years, thus the value of my bike should hold. The next Year, they came out with an upgraded version of the Milwaukee 8 and a larger front wheel, leaving mine much less desirable. The option i had at that point was to spend boatloads of money on upgrades, (just to get it to the same level ad the new 2018, or buy a new bike..) I put my bike up for sale in 2018 with 5k miles on it, and had lots of extras, I owed 21k on it and would have been glad to get out from under it. When I took it to dealer they offered me 14k... I tried to sell it on the internet and other places, and couldn't get anywhere near 21k. I started lowering the price just to see how much of a loss I would have to take and I couldn't even sell it for 16k... (not a scratch on my bike) So Basically I had to pay someone to take it off my hands (meanwhile im still paying $533 Per Month -- Harley Finance RIPS you off on interest) of if I could only get 16k for a bile I owed 21k on, id have to waste another 5k just to get rid of it. By contrast, I sold my 2014 Chevy Silverado back tot he dealer I bought it from, and they cut me a check for $2400 and paid it off. I called and tried to work out something with Harley and was so disappointed in the company as a whole (and lets not even talk about how much money I spent with Harley on Clothes and other accessories... jeezzz) Finally I decided to do a voluntary Repo and drove my bike up to the dealer I bought it from, handed them the keys.. The manager understood and was cool about the whole situation. I still made my next payment, then walked away from Harley forever. As my Tshirts wear out, and other Harley paraphernalia, I will throw them in the trash and never look back. Here is a video of my Bike.. th-cam.com/video/k_bleiYpETw/w-d-xo.html
A major factor of H-D’s struggle is the high cost of their bikes (new), coupled with a glut of used Harleys at a much lower cost and very low miles. Consumers are buying used and dealerships are suffering.
except he's not turning it around. He's done more damage than good. The Bronx was a highly anticipated snarling beast of a naked street fighter. Shelved for the PanAm.... The Livewire was projected to cost around 21k. 6k over it's target competitor, with a MUCH higher build quality. It was Zeitz that put a 30k price tag on it. Far out of reach of the target consumer.
Just as a note, a 50 years old in 2019 is not a Baby Boomer, but a Generation X. People keeps forgetting us putting us next to Baby Boomers or Older Millennials. Generation X are people born between 1965 - 1980. The oldest Generation X in 2019 was 54 years old, the youngest Generation X in 2019 was 39 years old, still in their 30s and still young. The core market for Harley Davidson by your statistics makes it Generation X, and they didn't benefit economically like Baby Boomers, older ones might have it a bit better, but not like baby boomers, we grew up already too late to enjoy the golden era, when Generation X entered the work market between the early 1990s and 2000s, the economy was already polarised, not like the 60s and 70s and early 80s where the US was in a boom, and baby boomers being the children of the Greatest Generation and Silent Generation who entered the market in post WW2 who enjoyed a remarkable rise of living standard, made baby boomers get the best head start. Generation X didn't get the cheap College tuition Baby Boomers had, as well as cheaper housing and cushier jobs. Maybe that's why Harley Davidson is loosing ground. 20 years ago, a 50 years old was a baby boomer, born in the 1940s, with many of them having better disposable income. a 50 years old today is a Gen X born in the late 60s and early 70s who are in a total different ball game. They are 50 years old alright, but they don't have baby boomer money.
To all the Harley Trolls in these comments saying they are too heavy and underpowered obviously are ignorant and never rode cross country. Ride a Harley doing 75 mph with a lot wind and have a semi truck go by you doing 80 mph. Harley-Davidson just as stable as can be and then under same conditions take your lightweight Japanese bike and see how you make out. Lastly Harley-Davidson must have been doing something right through the years because the Japanese have been the Ultimate Copy Cats. So for you Japanese “Harley Wannabes” and Trolls thank you very much for giving me a great laugh.
All the new bikes are overweight monstrosities. And they canned the V-Rod - how stupid. The 500 and 750 is a good idea but the look is too Jappa. They need to be small cruisers. What morons are in charge eh? Too many Sportster models - just need a basic one with lots of options/extras. Let people/shops mod them easily. Have one model. The big ones - just scrap them. Make a new one with a sensibly smaller engine and aim for lighter weight and cheaper. Think FXR / Dyna style and let people build on it with mods n options. Back to basics. Just my 2c.
The biggest problem I have with Harley Davidson is that I don’t own one. It is a great motorcycle. Yes shares my drop, and they are too expensive. That being said they are still the greatest motorcycle. Like it or not. In my opinion.
Not like that anymore with HD. They are solid built bikes. Older models like the shovel or the pan were designed to spit oil hence why there was always a piss puddle under them.
How does a company with the same brand recognition as McDonald's fail? By refusing to innovate and compete with other brands. Imagine if Apple kept the iPhone 6 for 20 years, thats what HD did...
Too: Expensive, heavy, slow, bad handling, poorly designed, unwilling to innovate (Though MUCH of that is the fault of their core fanboys, who get ticked if HD makes anything new or different even if they still make what the HD Fan-bois buy.) Did I mention HEAVY and EXPENSIVE, SLOW? Oh, I almost forgot, OVERHYPED. Good luck HD.
HD like all all motor products are not made in America they are assembled in America. In the HD case the only thing Made in America is the tractor noise. HD will succeed once again when an Asian company buys the name in a bankruptcy sale. The new bikes will be better, cheaper and use gas to produce HPs not decibels.
I’m 71 and I’ve been riding all my life and I could never get into the brand or especially the lifestyle. I’m more into performance and ride BMWs, Ducati’s and KTMs. HD made a huge mistake by getting rid of Buell. Adventure bikes is a huge segment and HD has nothing. I know they have plans for the Pan American but can it compete with the many we’ll sorted and proven BMW, Husqvarna, KTM, Triumph, Honda etc adventure bikes now available?
Exactly if you don't move with the times, in time you'll be left behind and no matter how fast you try to catch up, you most likely never will. I'm 56 been riding sports bikes for 40 of those, latest ride is a KTM Duke 790 my first Naked Bike.
I have a Harley and I love it. It’s a bit frustrating how not only the bikes are expensive, but the Parts, even the t-shirts are expensive. I mean there’s bikes that are 30,000 that’s insane. Drops prices on parts or the price on the bikes and they will sky rocket again
Scarily like Apple, Harley Davidson tend to attract people who don't know much so about motorcycles but are sucked in by the brand image. But then I suppose they are living the dream as they see it. The other day I saw a couple cruising around on their hog, they had matching Harley jackets, panniers, helmets & probably underwear too, hilarious to watch, but if they are unaware that others are laughing at them then carry on living the dream.
"these bikes have been ruining people’s hearing for decades." That has nothing to do with Harley Davidson the all to do with the people who make them loud. HD's stock exhaust are pretty quiet. "Though they are the most comfortable cruisers on the market" Based on what?
@@karma9898 " hate how loud motorcycles can be so when I get one I'm going 2 have to figure out how to silence it" They come from the factory without loud pipes. You should actually got to a dealer and learn about them before forming opinions about them.
Their "baby boomer" clients who retired full of cash are now getting to the age where motorcycling is no longer possible or practical. Their products are too expensive and the latest generation don't even show interest in cars let alone motorcycles. Harley will go under but because the brand name is so well known another ownership group will take over. This scenario will repeat many times . Their engineering prowess leaves something to be questioned - cam chain adjusters that don't work properly - cylinder walls too thin to support longer stroke designs etc etc - are all signs of poor engineering. Mean while a Honda Goldwing can do 250000 miles plus trouble free.
Bull shit, we buy trikes. Other than the AMF years this company has had the same ownership. I do believe they will be around when you get to the age and intelligence to go buy one
I stopped in at my local Harley dealership a couple weeks ago to meet up with a friend to cruise. Upon getting off my bike and walking to the door, a salesman immediately jumped me and said Salesman "Hey. Are you here to get yourself a piece of American Steel?" My response was Me "nah. Just here to meet someone and go cruise. I already have a great bike. Far more reliable than anything here for a lot less money". Salesman "oh? Whatcha ridin?" Me "That Kawasaki Z1000 over there" Salesman " oh boy that's a good bike. You should take one of ours out for a test ride. I promise you'll love it" Me "but I won't love that HUGE DEBT. No thanks" Salesman "Harleys come a long ways over the last decade". Me "they still have plenty of ground to make up. No thanks. I already own a dream bike"
It’s a very complex problem for HD to solve. I’ve been riding big twin Harleys for 35 straight years. My 24 year old son has never shown an interest in riding motorcycles. To my generation, cars and scoots represented freedom - the road and the ride were a way to relax and have fun. When we were kids, our bicycles were our first “freedom machines” - allowed us to go places. For my son’s generation, they experienced their fun & relaxation virtually when growing up - video games, TH-cam, the internet and smart phones. I think it will be difficult for all motorcycle companies to get that generation passionate about riding - as it is not something that they aspired to growing up. Perhaps if movies can inspire interest (like the Terminator Fatboy), but I see it as a more complex and difficult marketing challenge than it appears on the surface.
Oh good then buying a harley is just fine then. Because they're made in the USA and have technology from 2016, like wireless security and ignition, and 4 valve hybrid oil cooled engines. Great we had this talk now that you know that you dont get a 70s tech bike made an india from harley.
@@FranBunnyFFXII Actually some of the Harley models are made in India. And Harley is very much trapped with there V-Motor. I once found a book from the 60' about motors. There they talk already about 4 and more valves. If money don't matter BMW, if I need Bike I can trust and don't want to spend to much the Japanese, for speed with stile Ducati and if want to feel oldschool Triumph, Norton, Brixton (even there quit new) or the Royal Enfild. A trip with a Enfild through the Indian Himalayas is the real adventure. The Road 66 is for Warmduscher.
@@Zurich_for_Beginners None of the bikes sold in the USA are made in india. You cant just cherry pick away and act like you're when you've been proven wrong. The india comment is 100% misleading and you know it.
@@FranBunnyFFXII As most of the of the people, me included, don't live in the US it not that wrong. And any way since drove a Enfield over dirt road on the Himalayas 3500 meter over sea-level and saw what other did with them, they are the true hero.
@@Zurich_for_Beginners it is wrong. No core model of the HD line up is made in india. Only a few models have a segment made in india. So not it's not true.
The biggest problem with HD? They are shit bikes from a long bygone era.....they suck......Triumph forever!!!!!!! Also, they are just a one trick pony, all their models are just a variation of the same tired old theme and as their target market demographic ages, they will start to lose even more market share. If you look at the more successful marques, you will see they produce a wide variety of models, from enduro's, adventure, cruisers, full on track ready sport bikes, sport touring, touring, naked sport, dirt, etc.....if you want to ride, companies such as Honda, BMW, Triumph have got you covered no matter what style of riding interests you......HD does not and actively refuses to do so.......in many ways, HD is the perfect American brands as it incorporates all that makes up the US, it's loud, it's large, it's fat, and ultimately....it's become a sad joke and a pathetic parody of itself......
Poor bikes with an image problem- only for old guys who think they look cool. A "real" biker doesn't ride a HD as they're regarded as poseur bikes and are generally sniggered at- and we all have stories where we have a go on one, thrape it as you would do any other bike, and bits fall off or the owner is like "you can't do that to a Harley". Then there's the chrome and leather 🤣🤣🤣🤣, and the noise that screams "look at me, look at me"- rather sad actually and real bikers don't even regard them as proper motorbikes. Their decline is inevitable as they don't have any style and a huge image problem that can only be solved if they produce bikes that look "cool", are mega reliable, and young people want to buy. I'm 51, I've had Yamaha's, many Honda's and a Ducati throughout my life- since 18, so I fit into their current target market but I wouldn't be seen dead on one- crappy bikes, no style and a dodgy image.
I'm 54, and the average age of Harley riders in my neck of the woods is probably ten years older. I remember Teddy Boys still being around in the eighties, all as old as Hell, and by the nineties you just didn't see Teddy Boys anymore. Things change, y'know?
Harley needs this new dude...I don't want to see them tank. Focusing on the Dealerships that make money, and reducing the Harley yearly motorcycle lineup to the profitable bikes is key to surviving. Drastically reduce productions numbers and create motorcycles so cool that folks are willing to get on a waiting list to get a Harley like it was back in the day. Overproduction devalues Harley's stock and their motorcycles resale.
I am french and the specific sound of a Harley is amazing. It is not just for everyone it is a mindset a dream i can't to Afford but i am always impress by the beauty of those legendary rides. With the indian motocycles .😍
Harley make motorcycles that people would like to buy.
But the Japanese make motorcycles that people can actually buy.
Ya, that’s a cute little saying but the numbers tell a different story. Over 1/2 of all motorcycles sold in the US in 3 decades were HD.
@@JSRockyAnderson Yeah used ones that hipsters and buying to drive to the bar and drink PBR.
Neo Smith , what ? You obviously didn’t pay close attention to my post. IN 3 decades. 30 years. For 30 years HD was the AMERICAN LEADER IN MOTORCYCLE SALES. This stat has nothing to do with used bike sales or hipsters or any other such nonsense. If you want to make an argument, make it mean something.
The top selling motorcycles in the WORLD is the Yamaha FZ07 and the Honda NC750. Economical, practical, efficient and reliable. You know the saying "if it's in the shop, you ain't riding." That's what I want no hassle vehivle.
This is 100% true and I own a Harley Fatboy. The only reason I was able to buy it was because they discounted the bike 4k and put it in my price range
Expensive, iffy reliability, aging customer base, serious competition, hugely expensive dealer structure, corporate debt. And to millennials, HD is a brand for rich, pudgy, middle aged dudes who do biker outlaw cosplay on the weekend.
Pretty much sums up the situation.......
Yup, pretty much dead on.....
@Joseph Marton They are known as Harley-Davidson tractors after all........big, slow, cumbersome but capable of hauling heavy dead weights........
I disagree on reliability. I own several Harley bikes and yes while the older pre EVO bikes needed more maintenance than normal, the new ones EVO and up are pretty solid. On everything else I agree with you and I am a millennial. They do need to shred the price down and a couple models too because there area ton just like a restaurant menu, it needs to be solid but not several pages long.
@ Crateix, agreed. I have only owned the TC and M8. Would love to have a EVO kick around town bike. I feel the M8 is a great motor that still gives the Harley feel but smoother. Most of these replies are from those who have never owned or ridden H-D.
The problem with Harley Davidson is that they massively overcharge for motorcycles that are nowhere close to being worth their high prices. Also, the millennial generation has far too few people who can afford such extravagances like motorcycles, golf, boating, etc.
Plus most younger folks I know are not really into motorcycles.
And actually it is not just younger folks anymore.
@Doctor Detroit Working as much as necessary to get by today is working harder than the boomers had to work.
@Doctor Detroit or we dont want cars because it has gotten extremely expensive after boomers ruined the economy or we care about the enviorn
@Doctor Detroit I mean why would I want a car when I can just get an Uber or use public transport but I mean I'll probably still get a bike just cuz I like them I just don't see a point wasting money on a whole bunch of useless stuff.
@Doctor Detroit I don't know about that? At the moment they are expending quite a bit of energy. It's hard to call any group lazy that stays up all night moving tons of bricks, gasoline and milkshakes along with repackaging their own crap into balloons (that MUST be tedious, time consuming and messy? I dare you to try it! Lol) for ammunition instead of sleeping?
That's a LOT of work and conviction to get a message across that most Americans know is a huge false flag operation.
In the last 32 years I have purchased 4 New Harleys off the show room floor,.. I had trouble with every one,.. Still I remained loyal,. Until a road trip back in 2002 across Canada from my home town of Houston Texas,.. After that trip I sold that Road King and purchased a 2003 Goldwing,.. There comes a time in your life when being Cool is not that important,... Dependability and comfort out weighs cool by a huge margin.
Overheard an old biker to a proud young owner of a new 750 Harley Street, "huh... not a real Harley". That's part of the problem. Not just brand snobbery, model snobs.
I love my "other" brand.
John Alden I’ve been riding Harley’s for 30 years, he’s an a$$hole!
Yep, that's a great way to alienate the younger crowd. Most of us started on whatever crappy old bike we could afford. Those guys have forgotten the thrill of riding and have this 30K dollar bike that they ride twice a year but only if their wife lets them. They're miserable and only want to drag others down to their level. Sucks but there it is.
That's exactly the problem. Stupid asses with that (It ain't a Harley) mindset.. And HD's blind allegiance to the old biker culture with that mindset.
@@jamesgang6206 I bought my first bike (a 46 Harley 61) in '56 and for about 16 years wouldn't even look at anything else, owning four different Harleys. Then, in 1972, my brother in law rode into my driveway on a brand new Honda 750. Took it for a short ride....goodbye Harley...and I've never looked back! I currently own two Honda ST 1100s.
That is so true!!!! It’s as if the old have high jacked the brand and don’t want new people to buy in!!!!
Harley doesn't have world wide appeal and demand. They are a niche motorcycle for Americans who want a big, loud, cruiser/tour bike. Problem for HD is that pretty much all of the riders who want a big ass Harley already have one.
Makes sense, but they have many now less expensive smaller bikes that are pretty cool..should appeal to almost anyone..
@@russmode Not really. They have a small high revving V-twin that nobody is buying. They wasted a lot on its development when they should simply have improved the Sportster and produce it at a more competitive price buy building it in the far east
@Bun Bun High revving engines are less likely to meet future emission regulations as there is less time for the fuel to fully combust. Already the fuel mixture is so lean that there is a gradual move by manufacturers towards increasing cc's to give the same power output as last years model. Furthermore aftermarket items are sometimes required to improve low speed throttle control. We are already lucky not to have to undergo emissions testing for MOT where de-cat and these other improvements would result in a test failure. Given that in the UK reduced speed limits to improve air quality are currently being trialled I suggest that sport bikes are not the future.
Many of them have three, four, .... actually.
Every harley guy I know spends tons of money on the bike, after they already spent tons to buy it to make it perform correctly.
madmaxxmad2 Sounds like a guy that can’t afford to buy one and customize his own bike.
@@Bill-ck3lo who would be stupid enough to purchase a bike that doesn't perform properly out of the shop? Why you you even do that to yourself.
John Roe my ultra performs perfectly...the point was Harley owners want to customize their bikes either cosmetically or for performance and not because they don’t perform properly just everyone has a different taste
@@johnroe3915 that would be every Japanese and European bikes ever. they have to comply with the emission law so they are all under power
@@Bill-ck3lo You shouldn't have to spend money on it to make it go
Harley Davidson, Turning fuel into noise. without the side effect of horsepower for over 100 years
Q1: What do Harley's and hound dogs have in common?
A1: Both prefer to move in the back of a pick-up truck then move under their own power.
Q2: What is the difference between a vacuum cleaner and a Harley?
A2: The dirt bag of a vacuum cleaning rides inside out of sight, where as a Harley's dirt bag rides out on top and in full view of the public.
You made me spill my coffee 😂😂😂
You’re just jelous because you can’t have one.
@@pakitin The only one I would own one is if I won one in a lottery.....and I would quickly sell the silly thing and buy a proper bike....most likely another Triumph.....
Gumpy Old Bugger because Triumph is such a reliable brand 😂 Try to resell it in Two years...
They had Buell motorcycle up until 2009 which was apparently badly outselling HD itself among the younger bike crowd. So they shut it down to focus on HD. Apparently that was a bad idea.
Eric Buell had the balls to go racing and actually improve the product. Caring about function over style just isn't the HD way.
I wish Buell outsold H-D.
Harley is a sinking ship. You can only prop up your value for so long until you run out of money for stock buy backs.
I remember Buell. A local Hells Angel had one. It was fresh.
Had a Buell. Didn’t have the magic handling people talked about. Seemed clumsily engineered, and where a GSXR750 of the era took a light touch and felt like riding a race horse, the Buell took much more firm brake and steering inputs and felt like riding a rhinoceros.
Kept getting recall notices for quite a while after I sold it.
It did sound cool, and I have to give them credit for the power they achieved from a Sportster engine, and for having the courage to step out of their core market.
I had a couple of Harleys when I was younger. For the past 10 years I've been riding a Yamaha V-Star. It does everything that a Harley will do for $10K less, and it is extremely dependable. Other than normal maintenance, the only thing that I've *ever* had to do is put a new starter clutch in it. After 10 years, that is incredible - especially compared to HD.
Once upon a time, the "Made In America" thing might have been worth putting up with higher prices and breakdowns, but Harleys are now "Assembled In America". Most of the parts come from Mexico, Taiwan and other foreign countries. If those jobs aren't going to my fellow Americans, I see no point in being loyal to HD. Especially when you can get a Japanese bike much cheaper that is every bit as good - or better - than a Harley.
I have a 2014 vstar 250 that I got for 800 dollars. It only has 6k miles and with a few mods, it cruises on the CA freeway at 75mph no issues
I sold my Harley for a V Star as well, the best decision I ever made. No more “Harley tax” every time I go to the dealer and I don’t have to put up the the “I am a bad ass” overweight, goatee wearing, tattooed clientele that need to get a life and education.(and that was just the women)
@@Pittsburghpilot LOL, spot on!
I Agree
@@Downs4 I have a 2003 V-Star 1100 Classic. Bought it with 1900 miles on it for $3500. It was barely broken in with those miles. Pretty sure it'll be the last bike I ever own.
Sounds like the new CEO wants to turn HD into a luxury brand for middle aged dentists.
😂😂😂😂
some day you will again need your dentist, So what? They are nice people too.
It already is. At least here in Germany.
Before 2001 you were put on a waiting list to get a Harley in most places, after the anniversary Harley simply flooded the market resulting in a resale devaluation and a surplus of bikes for a limited amount of riders. Then 2008 came along and simply wrecked the recreational market.
"Then 2008 came along and simply wrecked the recreational market" Only for Harley Davidson and perhaps Indian, the other brands: KTM, BMW, Kawasaki, Triumph, and Ducati all had record profits after 2008 while Harley didn't.
@@robertp457 And Triumph (my favorite brand and current ride), is the come back story of the Motorcycle worlds....all but dead by the 80's, resurrected in the 90's and been growing since then......although....I am a bit disappointed with the new Trophy models......they like the Honda ST and Kawasaki Concour's have become rather bloated....the earlier models were a lot in keeping with the Sport-Touring philosophy......now these bike lean a bit too much towards the Touring side of the equation.
Strange thing .. here in Denmark, and I suppose the rest of Europe as well (?), used Harleys are still sold at sky high prices. Maybe it's time to dump those surplus Harleys into shipping containers and move them across the "pond" ?:P Edit: On second thought, if a bike doesn't have ABS or haven't been registered in an EU country prior, then there is ZERO chance of getting a plate on it. New EU regulation if I recall correctly.
Gumpy Old Bugger true but harleys bought in the USA are still made in the USA and not made in Thailand like new triumphs which is a sacrifice triumph made and a sacrifice most Americans aren’t cool with making. Now if Harley decided to shift production to Asia and cut the cost of a new bike by 30-40% and actually pass that savings on to the consumer THEN people might overlook where it was made. But we all know they would just keep the prices high and pocket the extra cash and then nobody would buy them because they weren’t made in the USA anymore.
@@Jay-bw3fl sorry, but new Harleys are ASSEMBLED in the US, a fair part of their parts and components come from overseas suppliers, you would be surprised how much of percentage that "ALL AMERICAN" Harrley is actually from China and other 3rd world nations. And you are right, even though HD is sourcing cheap components and parts, they are not passing on that savings to their customers, and this is not a viable business plan for the long term given the rapidly aging of their core customer base. In the past 40 years, HD has made some very questionable business decisions that damn near lead to the demise of the firm and they are still continuing on with that tradition. Personally I can't forgive them for killing off my beloved 750's back in the early 80's..
Harley-Davidson basically niched themselves into decline. Nowadays, millennials just see Harleys as loud obnoxious machines ridden by gruffy troublemakers and they don't want to be associated with that crowd.
Furthermore, the current generation of available customers don't have money to buy what they see as luxury vehicles either let alone something so premium priced like Harleys.
In general, internal combustion engine motorcycles (99% of the market) are hard to learn as well and requires constant practice and high initial investment of time to learn to safely ride. My bet is to short Harley-Davidson stock.
That’s funny. Most see millennials as loud, obnoxious troublemakers with whom they wouldn’t be associated even at gunpoint, who saddled themselves with so much student loan debt in pursuit of worthless degrees after four changes of major that they’ll never have the resources required to afford a Harley like those gruff troublemakers.
Mortimer Duke oh poor bb. Go back to your garage and make the engine go vroom vroom. No one wants to hear your generational warfare.
@@Mortimer_Duke Even most older generations would see pursuing a university education as a more worthwhile use of one's money than buying a Harley. Indeed almost anyone anywhere would.
"Nowadays, millennials just see Harleys as loud obnoxious machines ridden by gruffy troublemakers and they don't want to be associated with that crowd." I don't think that has anything to do with it. If a person compared motorcycles on paper no Harley Davidson scores well on price vs what the rider gets. Also with a lot of people growing up with tech Harley Davidsons are only just retro, but actual nostalgia. Finally their motorcycles at entry level prices are terrible their entire Street line could be the worst new motorcycle for sale today. The $5k BMW G310 is much better than the $3k more expensive Street 750. Finally the 1986 Harley Davidson Sportster has barely changed since it came out and the 2020 models are nearly the same as they were over forty years ago.
Not just millennial's.....even gray haired old farts like me see them as wanna be bikes, ridden by weekend warriors who like to cosplay as 1%'ers just to be seen at the local Starfucks half a mile from their homes.
The decision to stop production of the V-Rod was a mistake.
The guys who cried and moaned that the VROD was crap, were the same ones who ran Buell out. Same 70 and 80 year olds who don't buy motorcycles anymore.
@@Bredaxe Buell sales sucked. Dealers hated having them sit on the showroom for months on end.
Why? It’s rare that I see that bike on the road. Were people buying them?
It's spirit lives on in the pan america
I have ridden other bikes, there is just something about riding my harley that puts a smile on my face.
The vibrations.
@@carlosalmeida4415 Could be, the fit and finish just scream high quality. But I hear that some of that has gone down over the years. (well and during the AMF years) The Street models I tried I hated.
@@phillipmain6475 I have friends with Harleys. I'm not a fan. I loved Honda v4's as a kid (vf4). and the ST's after. I'm not a Harley fan. Always Honda. But to each their own. right?
@@carlosalmeida4415 As long as you are on two wheels and a smile on your face :)
@@phillipmain6475
Amen
Harley davidson : rebel, blue collar icon with CEO premium price tag.....
Dammm facts
Tomorrows Prices for yesterdays technology
It appealed to the dudes that came back from the Vietnam War I think. Also for my generation firstly I don't have the money to afford the bike also even if I did I rather buy a car with it or make a down payment on a deposit for a house. Also young couples starting a family will be shopping for a suitable car not a bike lol. And in London if you don't have off street parking in a secure place 😂😂😂 rip your bike. And our weather is so bad you just can't justify a bike that price. With the popularity of scooters and electric bikes that is the nail in the coffin. It's not Harleys fault it's just that the world has changed. Rip.
That's always been the case. Most young people starting families don't have money nor time for new, touring motorcycles. You can still pick up a nice, smaller, used one to enjoy now and then. When you get older and have more time off and disposable income, you can step into a new tourer. I rode for over 4 decades before I bought one. And I'm really glad I got it. Sporty bikes have their place, but so does being able to go places comfortably, take the boss, and all her stuff.
Always preferred walk while I adventuring or on vacation. Allows me to enjoy the scenery more, at my own leisurely pace.
Plus motorcycles are an unnecessary purchase for a family ov four. And my uncle died in harley accident, so for me they will always be associated with that. And bikers.
It is true. Especially in North America with its wide open spaces requiring long commute distances. N. Americans are crazy for cars & SUVs. Also N. America has its share of bad weather especially winters except for places like central/south California and Arizona with year-round riding.
The last nail into Harley's coffin is the rise of "ridesharing". Ride sharing will up-end the entire world not just motorcycles especially when good self-driving technology arrives. By then, a robotically driven rideshare across town may be only a few dollars! So skipping vehicle ownership altogether along with the associated maintenance, insurance, & gas becomes an easy financial decision. Especially considering most consumer vehicles sit parked and *unused* for 99% of the time!
Jayme Vosburgh Walking is nice but nothing beats cycling.
@@uvwxyzero Oh. Walking beats cycling any day for me, personally.
Current CEO doesn't understand his product or core customer. The marketing department needs to be fired & get some people in there that understand the market, the product & clientele.
Your core customers are dying of old age. If Harley-Davidson doesn't branch out to other demographics the entire company will die.
Problem is the HD market is fat old guys. they are missing out on everybody else.
@Bun Bun The bikes are for fat bastards lol
When you put a Dealership Network together that can be best described as " Just quit whining and give us your fucking money", and starting next week there will be a cover charge for the show room! Customers never see the Factory or it's workers, all they see is the dealer and they are horrifying.
If you want to look like a “rough and tough” kind of guy, riding a horse topless is better than riding a Harley Davidson.
Edge the thought of a typically overweight and sweaty Harley rider topless causes sterilization and uterus shrinkage
@人情味儿没有 Not necessarily, but he is the perfect example.
@人情味儿没有 Putin on a horse was my first thought... I prefer a HD then.
Congratulations on a million subs 💯
Now for a billion!
@@drunkensailor3736 only ? We gona get it to 2 shall we ?
Harley is vicious with their trademark. An iconic diner here in my town got a cease and desist order from the company over a sign that had been an icon for the place for over 40 years. Luckily a local Harley franchise stepped in and sponsored the sign itself though, but it made me loose alot of respect for a brand I've always revered.
This has nothing to do with harley and everything to do with corporate.
The only difference here is the very long standing existance of their icons in pop culture, and the culture that exists around it.
Any company regardless of what you think of them, must guard their trademark.
IT does not matter who it is, if they do not do so, they lose it.
You can literally lose the total rights to your brand name if you do not treat it as such.
Harley does not want to bully people out, they want their customers to be able to wear their logo as much as they'd like.
But they cant just let it slide for the sake of a customer interest that isn't using it without permission. Because if they did they'd eventually lose legal rights to own it.
They have no choice.
Its a capitalism issue, not a harley issue.
Acting like it's just harley is incredibly biased and dishonest.
COmpanies have to defend their trademarks or they lose their ownership of it, according to how the laws are written.
As a white 50-year-old male (their prime demographic), Harleys just don't appeal to most riders anymore. On average, motorcycles have become lighter, faster, more comfortable, and more reliable. But Harleys are still heavy, slow, uncomfortable, and unreasonably expensive. They just don't appeal to younger riders (and most of us older ones either). And let's not forget about how rude so many Harley riders are (you know, too cool and badass to wave to other motorcyclists). Who wants to be a part of that?
another factor to consider is the way clients reported they are being treated in sales floors , like they are lucky to even be allowed in , many feel they are treated instaly like they don't belong money bracket wise.
Adam Schoedel u don’t ride Harley right
Lower the price and everyone will be riding one.
sure, lower the price of tesla and we all be riding one.
Lower the price and it'd still be heavier and slower with less tech than it's competitors. Maybe they'll cry and ask for another import tax on their competitors.
@@miguelperez6711 you shouldn't even be thinking of a harley with a name like that.stick with your skateboard moron.
@@fastone136 Was that a racist reference? Kind of a stretch don't you think, I don't think skateborders when I think hispanic. If you're gonna be a racist prick at least be right about it.
Harley hasn't made a motorcycle since 1984.
Motorcycling in the US is down in general, not just Harley. Young folks like sitting around playing games and watching porn, not riding. My buddy who’s a dealer says, bike sales are way down, but they sell a bunch of jet skis and shitty jet boats. It seems there’s always been highs and lows with motorcycling. Hopefully it will have a resurgence.
Hell, im going on 50 and play video games and watch porn. But my riding days are done. Too much nerve damage.
True..Motorcycling sales are down across the board. But Harley niched itself into trouble by snubbing their nose at other age groups and refusing to innovate with new products. Plus their bikes are way overpriced. And they flooded the market with used models. How come Indian can produce the Scout for about 10K?? And it's a damn good machine. Technology advanced. Water cooled & 100 HP.. A better more rounded bike than a sportster. You can ride a scout all day and it won't beat you up. They ignored the obvious for decades & now the chickens have come home to roost. The clientele they catered to while ignoring all else is getting older. There is a price to pay for being arrogant, overpriced. And refusing to offer newer innovating products and change with the times..
Harley-Davidson: "Oh woes are us! where are we gonna find investment?"
China: "Herrrrou!"
Africa: whatchu talkin bout willis!?
@Joseph Marton So Lead based powdercoating? What crazy glue you sniffin fool?
@Joseph Marton I don't know about that mate, I'm from Australia and import tractor implements from China all powder coated or galvanised.
@Joseph Marton Ok not being local I didn't know about that.
Heavy, expensive, low tech, representing people with ED, proud and guzzler, it also had been associated with many polarizing political figures and groups that are hostile to particular groups of people. It has made it self more and more of a bad brand and image. With the pandemic and poor economy, people will be looking for easy to maintain , light, reliable and not a guzzler.
Absolutely correct. For some reason every time I hear of a biker being racist it is always someone on a HD. The image association needs to be broken, but i'm guessing a lot fo their clients would go bananas on Fox News if HD openly distanced themselves from them.
Priced comparable to BMW and the quality is there in terms of build and reliability. However BMW twins have 130 hp, premium brakes and suspension. For my 20k I don’t like feeling I didn’t get the best of everything. Btw I have owed 10 Harley’s since 1991. I am switching to BMW. Primarily for safety. Harley needs to up their game.
I heard that Harleys got MORE foreign made parts; Chinese, Taiwanese, maybe even Japanese and others than Hondas made here in U.S.
I thought Japanese big bikes are still made in Japan 🙄
@@apraew20 Welcome to the world. My Honda was made in U.S. of A, Maysville Ohio to be exact. Although Honda no longer make then since 2011.
Wages in the US haven't kept up with inflation. Workers can't afford HD like they could in the 70s (except for dentists and lawyers, i.e. RUBs).
Anyone who can afford to buy a motorcycle (any brand) can afford a Harley Davidson. The used market is full of slightly used yet extremely affordable HD's. Mine is 21 years old and still gives me all the throttle therapy I need :-)
The used market is huge. I know a lot of people under 30 that have multiple Harley’s. They buy used at a quarter of the price of new
I’m in my 20s and I know plenty of people that want/own Harleys, but as you said they’re all use motorcycles. New Harley bikes are too expensive for what you get as far as technology goes. Look at companies like Triumph who have a sweet spot of a premium product with modern technology, retro style, and a reasonable price.
@@nathanr6596 The money to buy a new Harley can buy a good car
@@mariohiraoka7822 then buy the car.
Those used bikes come from people who bought new bikes... in the last 17 years I have bought 5 new 1 used harley
@@stevexaxa3619 ...a fool and his money are soon parted...
40 Years ago, the US gov imposed a 40% tarif on HD's competition. They had 40 years to learn how to make a good bike and still failed. I wonder how great my Gold Wing or my Triumph Tiger would be if they did not have a 40% penalty to deal with.
the tariff lasted 2 years. The Japanese were dumping their bikes here below cost.
well. now with the japenese keeping on improving their bikes. they literally rendered HD useless in everyway possible. HD quality control is so horrible that i wouldn’t even dare comparing it tothe worst japanese bikes 4 decades older of the age of harleys
The slide will continue for HD, we saw Mercedes Bends expanding its sales and doing well after introducing the C Class models (not made in Germany and therefore cheaper prices) and hence selling to the wider mass market. HD is going to continue and expand targeting to the richer/ more financially well off person. It's not going to turn out well. In Australia, HD has already admitted the Live Wire is not intended for the mass market - at AUD50k, it's not going to sell in great numbers in my opinion also, even though it's fast and handles great and is a fantastic going by all reviews. Having the all electric bike in its arsenal seems to be more about meeting some kind of EU standard requirement rather than going for good sales targets. Right now, HD has arguably the best electric bike on the market, imagine how well it will sell if they offered it at a more competitive price. They finally have a bike that's superior in just about all things compared to the Asian brands and what do they do? Price themselves out of the market.
nevillegreg1 I’d have bought a livewire in a heartbeat... if it were a better price. I’m still considering an energica. If I decide on an ICE bike, the Indian scout bobber or the triumph bobber FTC seem a better bang for the buck than anything HD has to offer. They’re a premium brand in name only I’m afraid.
It always comes down to the price. You can maybe overlook the fact that a Harley is clunky and uncomfortable to ride because it's iconic, but the price is so high it's not worth it. Younger riders who have never ridden one will hate them; this is why they can't get younger customers. I am older now and I rode a Sportster for a long time. I have recently sold it and now I am looking for something cheaper and just fun to ride; I don't want to have to go to the service department and be looked down on because I am not riding a big twin monstrosity. I just want to ride. I like the fun of it and I like the better gas mileage and the economy of riding. Harley is not economical at all. In the end, if they don't lower their price points, they are pricing themselves out of business. Icon or not.
@@tayloriginals999 You make some interesting points. A young rider coming off a Jappa will not be impressed, even on the newer M8 Softails. My wife loved the smoothness of my Triumph Trophy. She was not over the moon when I went back to HD, even on the apparent (BS) smooth M8 motor. HD made a huge mistake when they intentionally left some vibration in the M8 motors based on old fart customer feedback during testing and pre-release of the new M8. It was an opportunity to move into this century and they didn't take it.
Get to the point a little faster, please.
And he utterly missed WHY Harley disappeared. Tried Charging way too much money for a common ass bike to common ass people.... who knew, common ass people who used to buy a common ass good enough bike, do not buy luxury items...
H-D, a T-shirt and leather jacket company that also sells motorcycles.
Paul Lazarro, been like that since the 90's. What you said is not nothing new.
Lol lol... (i ride kawasakis and Suzukis.. but got a harley Tshirt)
@cvh mplsmn they have had 5 straight years of downward sales. It is going to be 6 too lol. Look at their pathetic stock price. They aren't coming back any time soon.
They used to sell common ass motorcycles, now they are a luxury brand idiotic piece of loud uncomfortable trash.
@@UberVike Your point is what, exactly? Everyone looks at the downward spiral of H-D, and ignores the fact that it's an industry wide trend...
I'm a white 58 year old male that loves the styling of the Deluxe and Heritage, but I'm buying a Goldwing next because Harleys are way overpriced for what you get. And the dealer treats you like they are doing you a favour selling you that overpriced Harley stuff.
HD should capitalize on their brand recognition by expanding to new lines and new divisions; HD mowers and lawn tractors, HD generators, HD outboards, HD snow mobiles, HD off-road four wheelers, HD Marine products, HD power tools, etc....
Might as well make a damn car with a rumbly vibrating V twin engine
well they need to make reliable motorcycles and not have overly priced motorcycles and parts after all people are now more budget smart than ever before and are realizing harley's are severely overpriced for what you get when you can get a japanese motorcycle for cheaper that's nicer
Agreed, most of there bikes are crap. I've been riding for 20 years. You couldn't give me a Harley. Nearly all imported bikes are superior to them. Along with the image that goes along with Harley, I'll never own one
Not agreed. Really reliable bro. Been riding more then 20 years. I would love some more Harley Davidson's
@@jimmybe64 I doubt it’s anywhere near my Suzuki in terms of power and reliability
@@jimmybe64What does the length of time you've been riding have anything to do with how reliable HD are? My friend's Harley has been in the shop more this year than it's been on the road and Harley couldn't figure out what was wrong with it or fix it. Objectively they are terrible value. If they were actually worth their price I'd own one, but I'm not going to buy a premium priced motorcycle that needs at least 10% of its parts replaced with good ones. Someone offered me a 2019 Roadster for $3k under MSRP and I turned it down, because I'd have to spend $4k or more making it like it should have been when it left the factory. Buell figured out how to get power from that aging Evo engine, but Harley seems to have forgotten how Buell got it, well sort of. Their catalog of after market parts does have an upgrade kit they will sell you for your already paid for motorcycle. They won't offer it as a factory option, because it makes them a lot more money that way.
@@robertp457 your the one telling everyone how long you have never owned a Harley, 20 years I think you said. Now you are second telling me about your mate. As I said my bikes have never let me down. Japanese and British (Thai) have. But you are the Harley expert, not me so there you go
They are not made in the USA , they are assembled in the USA.
Harley Davidson: Buy a $30,000 t-shirt and we'll give you a motorcycle.
This presentation could be edited down to 3 minutes without loosing any important content.
It's so simple, and Harley seems confused. 1.) Build parallel twin adventure bikes. 2.) Recreate the 1934 Henderson infinitely smooth inline 4 motorcycle with an overdrive transmission (to compete with the Rocket III from Triumph). 3.) Make the motorcycles 40% less expensive. 4.) Make a parallel twin cafe racer motorcycle with a 650cc oil cooled engine with 67 horsepower, and inverted forks. 5.) Make an inexpensive electric motorcycle with really shitty batteries, and horrendously short range in stock form, for a very shitty low price, targeted to new motorcycle riders who want a high tech motorcycle, and the Harley name, and a reliable commuter bike that is very fast. It needs to be reliable. 6.) Make a new permanent inline 4 cylinder model of engine, like the Suzuki Bandit 1250, with ridiculous torque, and extreme smoothness. Make it sound like a Volkswagen 2.0L 16 valve from the 1980's, burbly, raspy, nasty, and scary. This will be a new flagship engine, and will bring in an incredible influx of new customers. Harley needs 4 cylinder engines, period. The days of building one old fashion product, has come to an end.
I just got my brand new Softail Slim since R18 from BMW is still in production next year. This is my 2nd Harley and im thankful for it. For its price its just right. 1750cc and loving it. Most comments here dont have motorcycles
Insanely expensive bikes and parts/accessories. No value for the money spent. Arrogant customer service. Poor HP and TQ compared to industry competitors. In UAE these already expensive stuff is marked by 40% more price and then sold!!!!
@Ticky Tocky When u don’t like a few qualities in your brother would you get rid of him permanently or advise him to improve i those areas???!!
Yes, they're expensive and over priced but so is everything else, but Harley catches all the flak it seems. Why is no one constantly bitching on how expensive pickups are nowadays, or for that matter boats ,planes, ect everything else that I can't afford either.
Everything is expensive because the dollar is quickly becoming worthless.
I’m not white, or 50... damn sure don’t make 90k a year... still gettin one.
That means somewhere a way whiter older and richer guy will buy a harley 😃
Maybe explain why you want one, in that case. Especially when there are plenty of other choices that make more sense for you.
@@boneseyyl1060 th-cam.com/video/uGVZbqEIteo/w-d-xo.html
@@sebastiangeorge7714 You are right, that probably is the reason. That is a 44 year old white guy riding it, however. And he stole it, so he got it cheap. And he wasn't worried about maintaining it.
@@boneseyyl1060 lol, actually i want harleys to be as good as i imagined them back in the days, then the price would be almost justified
Video starts at 8:30. Up to then is fluff.
Thanks
Cheers bro!
I only have a few thoughts on this(and this being just another internet comment, it's gonna get picked apart, it's my opinion).
1) Snobbery: Harley is struggling to get new riders, and you have these older dudes acting pissy because they see riders on Sportster and Streets, and other smaller bikes. Solution to this is simple. Just be glad they're on a Harley! If you want the company to survive, you can't expect everyone to be riding huge baggers/dad glides, especially as beginner bikes. The thing these other companies have is variety. Not to mention that yes, the street line is specifically built small for smaller riders. Plus guys that I know around my age (early 30s) happen to like dynas, and Forty Eights.
2) Technology (or lack thereof). I'm all about a "pure" riding experience, but there's no excuse to paying an extra $799+ for basic safety features like ABS when literally every other company has that as standard on even their cheapest bikes. No, all Harley's don't need navigation displays and ohlins suspension, and LEDs, but at least have better suspension and breaking. The only reason the Yamaha Bolt exist is because Harley didn't turn the Sportster into that 15 years ago. And the Sportster Roadster, while impressive, has the stuff that early 2000s jap bikes had. Which leads to
3) marketing. This is where I'm kinda with the majority on this one. Yes Harley has a target market and core customer, but those customers won't be around forever. Harley did a good thing by reinventing the Fat Bob as this post apocalyptic/sci fi inspired machine. Same with the FXDR. Very good. But also it would do some good to keep up with their competition. Triumph, Yamaha, Honda, Ducati, BMW, and even Indian are cashing in on the "neo-retro" craze. While I'm glad Harley just let the cafe racer thing pass, they would be killing it if they brought back the Sportster XLR 1200. It's basically the Ducati scrambler before it came out, and the Indian FTR 1200 with more known heritage. If they made that with an updated engine, they'd be selling like crazy
When i was trading my sportster in couple months ago for the 2020 softail standard. Those guys that would bash the sportsters/ street 500/750s couldn't even ride their giant ass bikes. They would be duck walking the fucking thing everywhere. I really like HD but if i could go back in time, i would have gotten a zx6r before the sportster lol. 25 btw
The new shirt and transitions really look nice. I'm glad to see that this channel can be something other than that one show Simon used to be on.
Lol I agree. They slowed down on transitions
the problem with HD is simple!! they weren't aware other motorcycles manufacturers exist, so they thought they would charge what they like..
Over priced, poor performance in every way and arrogant dealers and owners.
HD have the class, beauty and sound no other manufacturers can reproduce! I personally ride moto guzzi for preference.
HDs class is old fat men that smoke two packs a day and cosplay on the weekend. They attact saggy titty leather faced women. HD is one huge meme.
I always loved the look of the guzzi's...which one do u have?
Got a 98 Ev11. Love it!
@@Lex-Rex I'm a fit middle age guy n my girl has silky smooth skin...but that is funny tho...😀
Harley is pulling out of India. They tried to convince us, the Indians, with their cool macho-look motorcycles but we are still50 years away from the time when Harley becomes a common commodity in our country. Till then we may have to say goodbye to Harley.
Harley's biggest issue is its brand and what its associated with, evidence of that is in the comments. A lot of what people think Harley is just isnt true with some of their newer models. Unfortunately they still have the overpriced, old man bike stigma. I've recently purchased a m8 Street bob and it's fantastic. Price is comparable if not cheaper than rivals bikes of the same catergory (Indian, triumph) , and the torque is fantastic. Harley really needs a marketing campaign to shift the stigma. If you're a biker who likes to sit and compare numbers they aren't the bike for you.
It is true of the cosplayers in the weekend though, when I go near a harley showroom I'm usually the youngest by about 20 years
Harley has long embraced the association with outlaw lifestyle, rebellion, and 1% biker clubs. That may play well for the dentist that wants to play bad boy biker on the weekends, but the younger generation sees the non-inclusion, racism, and criminal behavior associated with some elements of the motorcycle community. If that weren't enough, they then see older technology at high prices. Harley makes some great bikes, but they've prioritized selling motorcycles as the price of entry to a lifestyle and an image-rather than just focusing on selling a bike. The image is outdated, and they need to figure out how to market nostalgia and heritage in a way that's also inclusive. There's a reason Indian is increasing market share.
I’m confused by all the hate directed at H-D. I am relatively young, just bought a new Harley, am a liberal, loving, assistant director of a school for kids with learning disabilities, and I abhor the rebel attitude. I love the heritage and history of the brand. The bike I bought is well made and rides like a dream. The marketing is outdated. The leadership stinks. The bikes don’t.
@@matthewcampbell930 Some people hate just to hate. It is fair to speculate how some aspects of the marketing or the mentality of some owners are going to put off people that might normally consider the brand. In our modern world of identity politics, there are going to be a lot of people that can't separate a product from an image as you have done. Harleys have come a long way in quality and performance. There was a time where they were unreliable and poorly built yet sold for a premium price on account of heritage. While quality has improved, that stigma is still going to linger in the minds of many.
A lot of what people are saying about Harleys in these comments just aren't true. For quite a few years now they've been just as reliable as other brands and they're very comfortable. Also all that weight is down low so it practically drives itself, it doesn't feel as heavy as they are and Harleys are actually easy to ride as a result. They just need to fire their marketing team and fight off the stigmas
We rented three Harleys for a ten day cruise around Florida in the 90s. It was fun to try, but holy crap did i ever love getting back on my Yamaha at home. Maybe the Livewire will save them, but i wouldn't bet on it.
Bikes are cheap on gas by nature , why get a electric that cost $10,000 more with a rang of 100 miles and a 45 minute recharge time.
There goes a road trip.
The livewire is $30k. Who is going to buy that over a Zero?
2017 I bought a Road Glide Special, 35k... I bought it because Harley just came out with the Milwaukee 8. I waited to buy the bike until the new motor came out because Traditionally Harley only changes their motor every 10 or 12 years, thus the value of my bike should hold. The next Year, they came out with an upgraded version of the Milwaukee 8 and a larger front wheel, leaving mine much less desirable. The option i had at that point was to spend boatloads of money on upgrades, (just to get it to the same level ad the new 2018, or buy a new bike..) I put my bike up for sale in 2018 with 5k miles on it, and had lots of extras, I owed 21k on it and would have been glad to get out from under it. When I took it to dealer they offered me 14k... I tried to sell it on the internet and other places, and couldn't get anywhere near 21k. I started lowering the price just to see how much of a loss I would have to take and I couldn't even sell it for 16k... (not a scratch on my bike) So Basically I had to pay someone to take it off my hands (meanwhile im still paying $533 Per Month -- Harley Finance RIPS you off on interest) of if I could only get 16k for a bile I owed 21k on, id have to waste another 5k just to get rid of it. By contrast, I sold my 2014 Chevy Silverado back tot he dealer I bought it from, and they cut me a check for $2400 and paid it off. I called and tried to work out something with Harley and was so disappointed in the company as a whole (and lets not even talk about how much money I spent with Harley on Clothes and other accessories... jeezzz) Finally I decided to do a voluntary Repo and drove my bike up to the dealer I bought it from, handed them the keys.. The manager understood and was cool about the whole situation. I still made my next payment, then walked away from Harley forever. As my Tshirts wear out, and other Harley paraphernalia, I will throw them in the trash and never look back. Here is a video of my Bike.. th-cam.com/video/k_bleiYpETw/w-d-xo.html
Yeah my household owns three motorcycles. None of them are Harleys they’re all city bike, zippy little things that can weave in and out of LA traffic.
A major factor of H-D’s struggle is the high cost of their bikes (new), coupled with a glut of used Harleys at a much lower cost and very low miles. Consumers are buying used and dealerships are suffering.
The irony of having a German to turn around an American icon company
except he's not turning it around. He's done more damage than good. The Bronx was a highly anticipated snarling beast of a naked street fighter. Shelved for the PanAm....
The Livewire was projected to cost around 21k. 6k over it's target competitor, with a MUCH higher build quality. It was Zeitz that put a 30k price tag on it. Far out of reach of the target consumer.
Just as a note, a 50 years old in 2019 is not a Baby Boomer, but a Generation X. People keeps forgetting us putting us next to Baby Boomers or Older Millennials. Generation X are people born between 1965 - 1980. The oldest Generation X in 2019 was 54 years old, the youngest Generation X in 2019 was 39 years old, still in their 30s and still young. The core market for Harley Davidson by your statistics makes it Generation X, and they didn't benefit economically like Baby Boomers, older ones might have it a bit better, but not like baby boomers, we grew up already too late to enjoy the golden era, when Generation X entered the work market between the early 1990s and 2000s, the economy was already polarised, not like the 60s and 70s and early 80s where the US was in a boom, and baby boomers being the children of the Greatest Generation and Silent Generation who entered the market in post WW2 who enjoyed a remarkable rise of living standard, made baby boomers get the best head start. Generation X didn't get the cheap College tuition Baby Boomers had, as well as cheaper housing and cushier jobs. Maybe that's why Harley Davidson is loosing ground. 20 years ago, a 50 years old was a baby boomer, born in the 1940s, with many of them having better disposable income. a 50 years old today is a Gen X born in the late 60s and early 70s who are in a total different ball game. They are 50 years old alright, but they don't have baby boomer money.
A PE of 13 seems good when the average company is ovet valued, but in reality its just fair value
Seems like the story left it out Generation X completely.
They jump right from Baby Boomers to the current generation.
Premium price, not a premium product.
To all the Harley Trolls in these comments saying they are too heavy and underpowered obviously are ignorant and never rode cross country. Ride a Harley doing 75 mph with a lot wind and have a semi truck go by you doing 80 mph. Harley-Davidson just as stable as can be and then under same conditions take your lightweight Japanese bike and see how you make out. Lastly Harley-Davidson must have been doing something right through the years because the Japanese have been the Ultimate Copy Cats. So for you Japanese “Harley Wannabes” and Trolls thank you very much for giving me a great laugh.
All the new bikes are overweight monstrosities. And they canned the V-Rod - how stupid. The 500 and 750 is a good idea but the look is too Jappa. They need to be small cruisers. What morons are in charge eh? Too many Sportster models - just need a basic one with lots of options/extras. Let people/shops mod them easily. Have one model. The big ones - just scrap them. Make a new one with a sensibly smaller engine and aim for lighter weight and cheaper. Think FXR / Dyna style and let people build on it with mods n options. Back to basics. Just my 2c.
Seriously you think Harley is in trouble… The whole economy of the United States is in trouble not just Harley just look around
Maybe just maybe if i walk in Harley Davison dealership without all them employees stop to stare at me I'll probably buy one
When will Simon be back?
The biggest problem I have with Harley Davidson is that I don’t own one. It is a great motorcycle. Yes shares my drop, and they are too expensive. That being said they are still the greatest motorcycle. Like it or not. In my opinion.
You forgot to mention reliability. Many have stayed away
Not like that anymore with HD. They are solid built bikes. Older models like the shovel or the pan were designed to spit oil hence why there was always a piss puddle under them.
2:37 hehe "pp ratio"
very reasonable
PE ratio he mean
@@Petethecoolguy you heard the man. Pp ratio
@@kevin-the-persian lol
Media dweebs like this are just pilling on HD troubles. HD will be different in the future, but still strong.
Tap your heels together three times.
@Bun Bun Indian motocycles 1re more expensive then Harleys
Come on, that could have be told in half of the time.
How does a company with the same brand recognition as McDonald's fail? By refusing to innovate and compete with other brands. Imagine if Apple kept the iPhone 6 for 20 years, thats what HD did...
Why would anyone buy a Harley.... old technology, heavy crap.. so much better bikes out there. I’ll happily dance on the HD grave.!
I like Harleys especially its iconic V Twin sound.
But, I think I’ll buy a Triumph instead.
It’s a tough decision, indeed.
Harley-Davidson... yesterday's technology at tomorrow's prices.
Harley Davidson may go completely extinct along with the baby boomers in a couple of decades.
If u can't sell the product, sell the history of the brand.
Too: Expensive, heavy, slow, bad handling, poorly designed, unwilling to innovate (Though MUCH of that is the fault of their core fanboys, who get ticked if HD makes anything new or different even if they still make what the HD Fan-bois buy.) Did I mention HEAVY and EXPENSIVE, SLOW? Oh, I almost forgot, OVERHYPED. Good luck HD.
HD like all all motor products are not made in America they are assembled in America. In the HD case the only thing Made in America is the tractor noise. HD will succeed once again when an Asian company buys the name in a bankruptcy sale. The new bikes will be better, cheaper and use gas to produce HPs not decibels.
I’m 71 and I’ve been riding all my life and I could never get into the brand or especially the lifestyle. I’m more into performance and ride BMWs, Ducati’s and KTMs. HD made a huge mistake by getting rid of Buell. Adventure bikes is a huge segment and HD has nothing. I know they have plans for the Pan American but can it compete with the many we’ll sorted and proven BMW, Husqvarna, KTM, Triumph, Honda etc adventure bikes now available?
Exactly if you don't move with the times, in time you'll be left behind and no matter how fast you try to catch up, you most likely never will. I'm 56 been riding sports bikes for 40 of those, latest ride is a KTM Duke 790 my first Naked Bike.
I have a Harley and I love it. It’s a bit frustrating how not only the bikes are expensive, but the Parts, even the t-shirts are expensive. I mean there’s bikes that are 30,000 that’s insane. Drops prices on parts or the price on the bikes and they will sky rocket again
Scarily like Apple, Harley Davidson tend to attract people who don't know much so about motorcycles but are sucked in by the brand image. But then I suppose they are living the dream as they see it. The other day I saw a couple cruising around on their hog, they had matching Harley jackets, panniers, helmets & probably underwear too, hilarious to watch, but if they are unaware that others are laughing at them then carry on living the dream.
CEO of a multinational company at 30?Way to make me feel inadequate Visualpolitik!
Glad, these bikes have been ruining people’s hearing for decades. Though they are the most comfortable cruisers on the market
I hate how loud motorcycles can be so when I get one I'm going 2 have to figure out how to silence it
"these bikes have been ruining people’s hearing for decades." That has nothing to do with Harley Davidson the all to do with the people who make them loud. HD's stock exhaust are pretty quiet. "Though they are the most comfortable cruisers on the market" Based on what?
@@karma9898 " hate how loud motorcycles can be so when I get one I'm going 2 have to figure out how to silence it" They come from the factory without loud pipes. You should actually got to a dealer and learn about them before forming opinions about them.
@@robertp457 th
Their "baby boomer" clients who retired full of cash are now getting to the age where motorcycling is no longer possible or practical. Their products are too expensive and the latest generation don't even show interest in cars let alone motorcycles. Harley will go under but because the brand name is so well known another ownership group will take over. This scenario will repeat many times . Their engineering prowess leaves something to be questioned - cam chain adjusters that don't work properly - cylinder walls too thin to support longer stroke designs etc etc - are all signs of poor engineering. Mean while a Honda Goldwing can do 250000 miles plus trouble free.
Bull shit, we buy trikes. Other than the AMF years this company has had the same ownership. I do believe they will be around when you get to the age and intelligence to go buy one
I stopped in at my local Harley dealership a couple weeks ago to meet up with a friend to cruise. Upon getting off my bike and walking to the door, a salesman immediately jumped me and said
Salesman "Hey. Are you here to get yourself a piece of American Steel?" My response was
Me "nah. Just here to meet someone and go cruise. I already have a great bike. Far more reliable than anything here for a lot less money".
Salesman "oh? Whatcha ridin?"
Me "That Kawasaki Z1000 over there"
Salesman " oh boy that's a good bike. You should take one of ours out for a test ride. I promise you'll love it"
Me "but I won't love that HUGE DEBT. No thanks"
Salesman "Harleys come a long ways over the last decade".
Me "they still have plenty of ground to make up. No thanks. I already own a dream bike"
It’s a very complex problem for HD to solve. I’ve been riding big twin Harleys for 35 straight years. My 24 year old son has never shown an interest in riding motorcycles. To my generation, cars and scoots represented freedom - the road and the ride were a way to relax and have fun. When we were kids, our bicycles were our first “freedom machines” - allowed us to go places. For my son’s generation, they experienced their fun & relaxation virtually when growing up - video games, TH-cam, the internet and smart phones. I think it will be difficult for all motorcycle companies to get that generation passionate about riding - as it is not something that they aspired to growing up. Perhaps if movies can inspire interest (like the Terminator Fatboy), but I see it as a more complex and difficult marketing challenge than it appears on the surface.
If I want to by a motorbike made in India, that comes technological from the 70' , I rather by the original a Royal Enfield.
Oh good then buying a harley is just fine then. Because they're made in the USA and have technology from 2016, like wireless security and ignition, and 4 valve hybrid oil cooled engines.
Great we had this talk now that you know that you dont get a 70s tech bike made an india from harley.
@@FranBunnyFFXII Actually some of the Harley models are made in India.
And Harley is very much trapped with there V-Motor. I once found a book from the 60' about motors. There they talk already about 4 and more valves.
If money don't matter BMW, if I need Bike I can trust and don't want to spend to much the Japanese, for speed with stile Ducati and if want to feel oldschool Triumph, Norton, Brixton (even there quit new) or the Royal Enfild. A trip with a Enfild through the Indian Himalayas is the real adventure. The Road 66 is for Warmduscher.
@@Zurich_for_Beginners None of the bikes sold in the USA are made in india.
You cant just cherry pick away and act like you're when you've been proven wrong.
The india comment is 100% misleading and you know it.
@@FranBunnyFFXII As most of the of the people, me included, don't live in the US it not that wrong. And any way since drove a Enfield over dirt road on the Himalayas 3500 meter over sea-level and saw what other did with them, they are the true hero.
@@Zurich_for_Beginners it is wrong.
No core model of the HD line up is made in india. Only a few models have a segment made in india.
So not it's not true.
The biggest problem with HD? They are shit bikes from a long bygone era.....they suck......Triumph forever!!!!!!!
Also, they are just a one trick pony, all their models are just a variation of the same tired old theme and as their target market demographic ages, they will start to lose even more market share. If you look at the more successful marques, you will see they produce a wide variety of models, from enduro's, adventure, cruisers, full on track ready sport bikes, sport touring, touring, naked sport, dirt, etc.....if you want to ride, companies such as Honda, BMW, Triumph have got you covered no matter what style of riding interests you......HD does not and actively refuses to do so.......in many ways, HD is the perfect American brands as it incorporates all that makes up the US, it's loud, it's large, it's fat, and ultimately....it's become a sad joke and a pathetic parody of itself......
Still a high end MC marketed to the middle class. Harley will be different but okay in the future...
nah harley is old tech for future price. id rather have an indian ftr than a stupid harley.
Poor bikes with an image problem- only for old guys who think they look cool. A "real" biker doesn't ride a HD as they're regarded as poseur bikes and are generally sniggered at- and we all have stories where we have a go on one, thrape it as you would do any other bike, and bits fall off or the owner is like "you can't do that to a Harley". Then there's the chrome and leather 🤣🤣🤣🤣, and the noise that screams "look at me, look at me"- rather sad actually and real bikers don't even regard them as proper motorbikes.
Their decline is inevitable as they don't have any style and a huge image problem that can only be solved if they produce bikes that look "cool", are mega reliable, and young people want to buy. I'm 51, I've had Yamaha's, many Honda's and a Ducati throughout my life- since 18, so I fit into their current target market but I wouldn't be seen dead on one- crappy bikes, no style and a dodgy image.
I just think they look ugly
@@karma9898 Yeah. I agree. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder of course but HD are well ugly.
I'm 54, and the average age of Harley riders in my neck of the woods is probably ten years older. I remember Teddy Boys still being around in the eighties, all as old as Hell, and by the nineties you just didn't see Teddy Boys anymore. Things change, y'know?
Harley needs this new dude...I don't want to see them tank.
Focusing on the Dealerships that make money, and reducing the Harley yearly motorcycle lineup to the profitable bikes is key to surviving. Drastically reduce productions numbers and create motorcycles so cool that folks are willing to get on a waiting list to get a Harley like it was back in the day. Overproduction devalues Harley's stock and their motorcycles resale.
Oh noes. Iconic brand appealing to Boomers with ED is sagging.
I guess you could say, it’s not just their sales that they can’t get up...
@@spooks196 HAH!
@@Elenrai awesome name
Can you do a video on AT&T?
I am french and the specific sound of a Harley is amazing. It is not just for everyone it is a mindset a dream i can't to Afford but i am always impress by the beauty of those legendary rides. With the indian motocycles .😍