Has Harley Davidson Betrayed Its Customers?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ม.ค. 2023
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I've owned 5 Harleys over the past 30 years. Stopped going to the dealers after they refused to work on the older bikes I have because they're "too old"! Mind you, I bought the bikes from them. Sad. Never again, though. I can assure you that!
You can see how loyal they are.
I went in to the local Harley Dealer and asked for a set of head gaskets for a flat head 45. The service manager says to me, "we can order parts for any brand motorcycle" I said, it's a Harley, "Oh, lets go look" so he holds up head gaskets while looking at me for answers, no that's a pan, no that's a shovel, no that's an evo, I'm out of here, thanks.
@@theguyinmaine to be fair most people being hired these days in most parts departments aren't the brightest of the bunch. They pay them nothing to.
Harley has been sticking it to their base for much longer than 30 years. I remember the threats of lawsuits against shade tree mechanics that kept their bikes running. I also remember the lottery where you had to buy a ticket(non refundable) to get chance to buy a new Harley. Do what we did in the Keys hit them where they are making their money, t shirts. Stop buying HD t shirts.
Remember, you meet the nicest people on a Honda.
I own and ride 2 Hondas...
Harley invested so much in its image that it’s near impossible to break away from it. It was almost too successful of a marketing campaign. Now people don’t have the money to afford them anymore in the numbers they need. Being married with children I haven’t bought another bike in almost 9 years (and those were Victory’s). My kids prefer sportier and adventure looking bikes as well. Harley is a victim of their own previous success in my opinion.
All things come to and end....
Harley wanted well over 6k over msrp "take it or leave it" when I was shopping for my 1st Harley. I went across the street and bought a new 04 Victory Vegas.
I bought a Harley a few months ago. I sat down with the finance agent. He pulled out a darkened screen tablet and said to initial in 4 places. A few minutes later I asked where's the paperwork to sign? Said that I already did and printed it out from the tablet. Didn't tell me the interest rate, length of loan. I only new the monthly payment before. I've since refinanced. What an underhanded deal! I hope they fold too! Kawasaki's shift a lot smoother. I wish I'd bought one!
No matter what kind or how much they market. The customer base that they have enjoyed having is gone. The Boomers and their money. GONE. And as you said , the young riders want Sporter bikes. And bikes they can work on. They don't have the big money either. And H-D never did anything in years to prepare for this. 7:25
Not only are the prices ridiculously high, the dealer will try to sell you a maintenance contract that is also ridiculously high. $500 oil changes. Dealers weeks out on service dates. They completely separated from us commoners.
It's more like a 5k service plan. Absolutely NOT worth it.
I'm 68 and have been riding nothing but Harleys thirty-five years but I have to agree with you. Excellent job.
The image problem isn't anything the next generation wants to go anything near.
Been riding Harley's 37 years and agree Harley is heading in wrong direction going to keep my 2005 softail don't think I will ever get a new one
You've missed out on some great bikes made by other manufacturers.
If you stuck with Harley, you missed out on some brilliant machines.
Been riding Kawasaki since 1978. While putting over 200k miles on these bikes, I got a lot of crap from HD riders. My big problem with the dinosaurs was their overweight, underpowered, overpriced, lack of sportiness. I like to go fast, far, and lean in the curves. I always said that someday I would be old and slowed down, where I might be content to ride a HD. At 70, I’m not there yet.
For me the dealers are almost entirely responsible for Harley 's problems. A few years ago I walked into a local dealership to buy a new bike that was priced at just under 12K. By the time the paper work , add ons, and dealer fee was added the final price was over 17K. I left the dealership and haven't been inside a Harley dealership since.
I went to a Harley dealership in Slovenia last year and asked if I could test ride a Pan America. They had no test bikes and some plastic chick bored out of her mind sitting behind the front desk told me I can only ride one at a Harley meeting at the coast or at a bike meet in Austria. I don't want to go to some stinking meet to test a motorbike, that costs 20.000€!!! I want to test it at the store that sell them! So that's how they sell Harleys in Slovenia. On top I got the impression the fit and finish of the Pan America was absolute crap. With this kind of attitude, service, quality and prices, and if this is not a lone occasion, Harley can die tomorrow for all I care.
@@andrejzupancic2286 try to contact Harley Davidson Budapest. They are pretty helpful. That’s where I bought the sportster.
As DJPTEXAS points out the MoCo forced changes in their dealer network back in the '90's. This changed the ownership experience.
I agree, Harley needs to bypass the dealers and sell their bikes directly. The dealers are the problem. Harley can sell like crazy if they cut out the middleman...... AND YES BRING BACK THE ROAD KING STANDARD
@@joemosely5520 Except it's Harley forcing changes on its dealer network. HD is responsible for what Dealers do now.
Many are not happy, and a WHOLE LOT lost their businesses with the last bunch of changes that HD pushed through.
I don't like defending dealerships of any ilk, honestly, as the regulations allowing their shit are IMHO a plague, but in this particular case, it's HD forcing changes on those dealerships even if it's actively destroying their owners business.
Your crystal ball is clear AND accurate! It's to the museum for Harley and Harleys are all I have owned since my brand new 1973 Super Glide I bought (still have the original receipt) for $2695.00 out the door. Those days are gone. It REALLY makes me sad. Harley Davidson no longer cares about they riders. They only care about profits.
To be fair, a Chevelle in 1970 was $3400, a GTO "Judge" was $4k. We're getting raked by most, if not all automotive companies.
Well, they are in business to make money but its about time they realize they are going to put themselves out of business at the rate they are going. And losing the entry level buyer is not a plan for future success.
Bro, $2695.00 in 1973 was an awful lot of money for a bike, that’s pretty much £20k nowadays.
I went to a Harley dealership and left on a Kawasaki voyage 1700. I never looked back. The voyage had 2500 miles on it and was 1 year old, cost me 12,500. I couldn't touch a Harley bagger for less than 40,000. Good luck Harley! I wish you well but you have to be able to compete.
Harley-Davidson is just a t-shirt company fading away into the sunset.
Very true! Just a brand now with crappy overpriced bikes
Overpriced slow heavy bikes. All sound and no performance. Hard pass
The " change " started in the late 80's early 90's. I worked as a mechanic ( called Tech now lol.. ) in a Mom and Pop Harley Davidson dealership and noticed the change then and soon after they forced the owners to build one of those Mc Dealerships and when the economy tanked they ended up going out of business after being around since WW2 ! Very sad, great dealership that Harley killed.
Exactly....all of us who supported Harley through the tough times and AMF years got screwed by HD and their focus on glitz fancy glass dealerships rather than their core business.. I recall when guys used to buy Evo motors from HD for their own project bikes and as a result HD about doubled the price.
@@TheWolfsnack Truth...
Thanks for the comment. Unfortunately that's a story that I've heard before.
I too worked at a Harley-Davidson dealership. I saw first hand the animosity that existed between the dealers and the Motor Company but it was always this way. Believe me, the first place you go, when buying a bike at an HD dealer, is the Finance and Insurance office. The F&I guy will look into your wallet and see how much you are worth and how much they can gig you for. Then they hand you over to a pretty girl in Motorclothes to sell you a jacket and boots made in China. From there you will be passed to parts and service. There they will sell you the stage # kit upgrades that will provide the performance the bike should have come with but didn't. Harley-Davidson hasn't betrayed its customers as much as they are treating them like marks to be swindled. The new generation is not playing the game.
By the way I worked as a mechanic back in the day and I am proud of that moniker.
@@JR-bj3uf Truth....
Harley is one of a kind. No other brand has the mix of terrible customer service combined with sky high prices (bikes, parts, service, upgrades, financing, etc.). They feel they can abuse you and they will.
Rolex
Ferrari
I have had them all. The most comfortable, best handling-normal riding, absolutely the best sounding best feeling was the pre fuel injection Motto Guzzi Eldorado. You could run stock or full dress them to the hilt. Full fairings, hard bags, trunk, floor boards, leg guards. Around a 1973
The early to mid 70's was IMO the best designs and cycles every made.
Weren’t Moto Guzzi’s just BMW’s with hardons?
@@rastus666 good one. No, BMW was a boring bike, like a Honda gold wing. Might as well take the Mercedes. The Guzzi torqued to the right when throttled and before fuel injection sounded like a small block Chevy with a 4 barrel. They had a breather box but no filter. They shook a little at idle, clunked when you shifted, just a real machine. You could ride a 850 Eldorado all day and never tire. Just an all around great machine, comfort, handling, sound and feel.
I'm not sure the "brotherhood" is still there either, riding through Michigan a few years ago I came across a Harley broken down on the side of the road, I pulled over on my Honda because that's what you do when you see a rider stranded. I didn't have a torx screwdriver, as my Honda doesn't have any so I couldn't help the guy, he called someone to get trailered home. We did give them a couple bottles of water.
The thing is, while I was there trying to help the couple about 10 to 15 people on Harleys road by, not one of them stopped to try and help this couple out. I felt sad for them.
Did you consider those that rode by had no idea how their machines work or anyone elses.
I have a 1984 FLHS. Learned the machine inside and out. I cannot help you out on your 2 wheeled cars of today, any of the foreign machines, i simply don't know.
@@davidbell1619 yeah, but that “wave” says, I care enough to stop and sympathize at least……in my book anyway.
I rode across the Lower 48 in 2021 and in Rest Areas I have had HD riders scowl at me or turn their backs at me when I gave them a nod or verbally greeted them. And don't get me started about hem refusing to wave to anyone not riding a HD.
@@davidbell1619 That's a bunch of bullcrap!! I have stopped to see if someone in an actual car was okay and if I could be of assistance. The HD "culture" is counter to motorcycling or riding. Riding bar-to-bar to show off your patch-covered vest is not what it's all about.
Probably because he was not stranded. He had assistance!
Harley is a victum of its own arrogance.
And stupidity
Just that.
"victum"??
There needs to be a resurgence renew and reform the knuckle and pan head
Yep
From the UK. I've owned a sportster 48 and a Sportglide. Loved them both. Preferred the 48 due to custom factors. However I've also had a Yamaha XJR1300 and a few other Japanese bikes. In all honesty I have enjoyed them all but HD rips the piss out of its buyers. The standard kit on a Japanese bike seriously is phenomenal in comparison with HD where everything needs to be added if bought brand new. If I ever bought another it would definitely be second hand. If they don't adapt for younger riders they won't last...
I feel like Triumph is doing the same thing. Gone are the days of a $8k USD Bonnie and other entry bikes. And with their move to expensive and hyper expensive ADVs and "classics" they're pushing many of us from Tigers to T7s and Bonnies to REs.
Great observation....
I believe the Royal Enfield bikes are a great alternative to the Triumphs. They might be a little less glitsy and they are not quite up to Triumph's very high quality standards, but they are good motorcycles and are very affordable. I just read that H-D is going to bring some smaller bikes over here from Red China. I will NOT participate in that mess.
@jroberthadden the RE bikes are excellent quality and still retain the ability to quickly repair in the field.
As to the HD bikes, there's no indication they'll bring them over, and it's doubtful they can compete with RE, Honda, and KTM in that area. But you should know the Chinese company, Qianjiang, already produces motorcycles for BMW, KTM, Honda, Yamaha, and others, along with small engines used throughout the world. Chances are you have one already.
@@jroberthadden and that ignores the fact that HD tried and failed to do their own assembly & manufacture in India, and still maintains factories in Thailand & Brazil.
Kind of like how building blue collar working stiff housing has been replaced with "luxury executive condos"
I'm in UK and a retired blue collar worker. As a 16 year old I saw Easy Rider and other biker movies that to me were the stuff of dreams. At that time I rode old BSAs, or more often pushed them! Harleys to me represented an exotic lifestyle I would never live. Fast forward to 2008 and I fulfilled my dream when I bought a Softail Custom, which I still have. Am a huge Harley fan, in fact all classic American vehicles. Been lucky enough to ride Route 66 and southwest USA. I find it really sad the way Harley-Davidson and biking in general is going now
I think your insights are spot on! One of the reasons I got into motorcycling and Harleys was because the people riding them were true or borderline outlaws and/or veterans/mechanics/tradespeople/etc. They were characters with character. Then, like tattoos, everyone and their sister was on a Harley wearing leathers that had never been exposed to a drop of blood and/or sweat. I have an anniversary edition Sportster 1200 that I ride occasionally to veterans', LEOs', etc funerals, parades and whatnot, but as an aging boomer, my real loves are the cheap Himalayan 411 and the even cheaper Honda XR150L that I ride anywhere and never worry about scratching, washing, polishing, dropping, etc. Going for a DR650 next! Ancient technology, I know, but like the "real" men and women that used to be the primary Harley riders, tough as nails, fun as hell, and willing and able to break the law or someone's face and take a night in jail for the right cause such as backing up a brother or sister. So, hang on Harley because China will be buying you out soon, not just making your relatively inexpensive and new 350 that a lot of U.S. would buy if you would offer it to U.S. $20 to $50,000 for a bike?! To ride with who? Yourself? Crazy!
Who can afford them? Too expensive for me
The small mom and pop Harley stores closing comment hits close to home. I watched our small, brick and mortar store in the working class, commercial area move to a giant glass castle(as you described) in an upper class suburb. Very sad.
Who are HD's customers? According to CNBC - "Average Harley-Davidson consumers are married men in their early 50s with a household income of $90,000 or higher, Women account for 12% of recent buyers with an average income of $120,000." Sounds like an exclusive members only club.
45 years on HD and I was and still am a broke Mf'er. I build my own swap meet specials. I have one bike that owns me, a 49 Pan for 40 years!
Going to be a lot of used harley davidsons for us low life's in the future
@@kennethschauer1801 Just bought an 84 FXR with less than 6000 miles for $1500. I'm gonna beat the shit out of it. 63 years old doing donuts and wheelies!
I know a lot of Harley guys, and that absolutely checks out for the vast, vast majority. Very few young people are particularly interested in Harley's, and most of those who are are pushed away by the insane prices. I mean, hey, you can buy a 50hp 600lb machine for twice the price of a 70hp 400lb machine. That's a damn hard sell in a world where we're struggling to buy fucking eggs.
That's a crock, you believe CNBC research 🤣
We ride a 18 year old Road King everywhere, it's been low maintence and reliable. And I could only imagine making that much..
I went from a Harley to A Kawasaki, cost less, runs and rides better
I love the new Kawasaki Vulcan 900 custom!!
63 year old guy here, just purchased a 2023 Kawasaki ZX-14R, couldn't be more happy with its performance and cost, gets tons of positive attention/comments everywhere I go (with the exception being HD riders).
I’m a Kawi fella myself, have an 04 zx-6, still runs great
My Kawasaki Vulcan has shaft drive, water cooling, hydraulic clutch, and a beautiful 1500 cc power plant. They also are not doing a deal with Budweiser.
That's a major upgrade there.
With basically the Nightster as their entry level bike, they might want to consider bringing over the India made 350cc that they were considering and flood the market with an inexpensive Harley like the Aermachi . I would buy a cheaper bike just to commute back and forth to work. Currently have a dyna and roadglide. Great video!!
I bought my wife a Honda Rebel 250cc to learn on. If she gets confident riding the rebel I would think of upgrading her to something like a 750 Shadow. Harley literally has nothing for novice, or intermediate riders. I would never recommend a sportster to a low experience rider; Sportsters are unstable and squirrely in adverse conditions. I can see that entire demographics of potential buyers are being ignored... Why can't Harley see this?
I can't imagine that the people of the most advanced economy in the world used to put drip-pans under their motorcycles. In India, we always had plenty of cheap motorcycles, but never saw someone use a drip-pan.
Wow, I love this comment. I remember seeing drip-pans in H-D showrooms...
Long-time rider (41 year) who has owned a bunch of Japanese bikes, and one Buell and one BMW. At 20, Harleys were just clawing out of the AMF years (drip pans under bikes was a real thing). At 30, I could have managed a sportster, but was busy paying for a house, so nope. At 40, I could afford anything in Harley's lineup, but was busy exploring the likes of Buell and the Honda 919 (with hard bags as a fully capable touring bike) and an MZ supermotard. Harley was "stone axe" technology and "old guy" styling. At 55, I sold the inline four(s) and bought a Honda CTX700 parallel twin with factory color-matched bags (link to image). It will go highway speeds all day long, looks good, gets 70+ MPG, and the Out The Door price (new old stock) was $7,009 - literally a third of what a Harley bagger would cost (and weighs 3-400 pounds less) AND it handles well in the twisties. At 60, I'm not hanging up my gear, because I bought a smart, practical (easy to move around) bike. The mythical downside is that I don't regularly have 30-40 identically dressed "lone wolfs" around to reaffirm my "rugged individuality." I also own a Royal Enfield Interceptor 650 for the nostalgia feels ($7,100 OTD).
www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/Gallery/Honda%20CTX%20700%2015%20%202.jpg
Your opinion. To me, that thing looks horrible.
My neighbor owns one of these. He loves it.
With all due respect I think you need to be an American to understand the Harley culture. My first bike was a 51 panhead and while I have owned a few Jap bikes I have always had at least one Harley in my garage. There is nothing on the planet that looks, rides or sounds like a Harley. True, the MoCo has always made crap which is what all true Bikers riding Harleys know how to fix them or have a very good mechanic. My beef is with the MoCo that knows less about their own customers than you do. These new McDealerships are painful to even walk into. Sleaziest sales people ever. Not a real biker in the crew. It's all about finding out just how stupid the customer is and getting as much $$$ out of them as possible. Providing a premium service experience and seeking to make customers for life? Please.... MSRP plus ~ $7k in 2023? You really have to be a true imbecile to go for a scam like that.
And it looks like ahit lol
Owned an 05 custom with a screaming eagle stage 3 kit, etc, etc. Pearl white, chrome, purty thing. Woman once commented 'that thing looks fast sitting still'.
I now own a 1982 750virago. And I friggen love it. 14xxx miles, gunna put a fairing and radidio on it next.
I bought 2 new Harleys to help them survive in 82 and 83. Harley needs to have an entry-level plain 900cc to 1000cc bike for under $10000.00 and it should be made in the USA. A plain air-cooled Sportster with a seat for 2, single disc brake in front and a 5-speed transmission makes sense to me for first-time Harley buyers.
And they'll get it, from Italy where they make the Evo Sportster under a new name. But it's the same bike, so all Harley aftermarket stuff will fit right on. It's the SVM customv1200 Stormbreaker.
I always liked the idea of a simple, traditional looking motorcycle that a somewhat mechanically inclined person could work on. Something like a '70's CB750. Maybe upgrade the ignition, points are a pain. Anyway, you'd think they could make something with a simple classic look and no bells / whistles for a smaller price tag.
The tooling for the cancelled XG models is paid for. There was nothing wrong with that engine!
Bring the XG-750 back and put it in a strip-model like the XLX of 1983 to keep the price low. Assemble them all in America with merit-based non-union employees and you would have an affordable US entry-level machine.
I think the last nail in the coffin was dropping the Sportster. I had an 62 iron head and it was a wonderful scoot. Used a quart of oil every 1000 miles but the bike was bullet proof.
You should demo a new Sportster. They are incredible and I think the reliability with the new motor will be very good!
Hmm using a quart of oil every thousand, sounds like seizure is waiting to happen in that rear cylinder no matter what you do is always running too hot. The Sportster was really apathetic antique and if you want to bike this loud and says look at me then there you go. The one I tried out and considered buying was a deathtrap the throttle stuck wide open and even flat-out it was not that impressive oh, I bought a Yamaha for less money, and it had shaft drive trailer hitch air suspension, equipped. Rode it to Canada and multiple times and how many Harley's did I see on the side of the road
@@scottsdialyadventure1338 Smart move, Scott!
@@scottsdialyadventure1338 What's a "roof cylinder."
And having worked for one of the biggest, German luxury car importers in the world, I can tell you that that company routinely told their customers that "1 quart per 1,000 miles is normal." I don't agree with that and find it excessive, but there's no way you can predict an older, air cooled engine is going to have a "seizure" just because it burns a quart of oil every thousand miles.
Sorry typo rear cylinder
I've been riding bikes for more than 45 years, and Harleys for the last 35 of them (three Sportsters, a Dyna Superglide and a Fatboy). I've thoroughly enjoyed my Harleys and have gone on so many memorable rides. However, every year, the "new" HD's come out and they are just the same bikes with different colors or other superficial changes.
As someone who fits your description of the "aging boomer" to a T, I agree with most of your comments. This transformation of the market for motorcycles has been gradually coming for about thirty years. This year's H-D line up was a huge disappointment. Now, that there are only bikes that either folks with deep pockets or a friendly banker can afford, many of us will continue to ride what we have. However, as my bad leg gets weaker and my arthritic hands hurt more and more, I can see that the days of riding even my old 2003 Road King are numbered. The Motor Company dropped all of the EVO XL models and discontinued the standard Road King and Low Rider, which I believe to be a huge mistake. There really is nothing in the new batch that even interests me at all. As I contemplate moving to smaller and more nimble bikes, companies like Royal Enfield and the "new" BSA are looking more and more attractive. I have owned an H-D badged motorcycle since 1983 and I will always keep my two XLs. However, since the Motor Company hierarchy really does not, and has not, cared about their older loyal base, there is no longer a good reason for me to support them. It's a sad time that we live in. Ride On. Our days are numbered.
Get a smaller lighter more nimble bike and keep riding man. Getting off of those 800 pd beasts is a revelation.
Average car is now $47k. Our first bikes were not Harley’s. 2 grand for a Harley and 3 grand for a BMW back in the day was impossible as well. We bought cheap small Japanese bikes to get started. I made a $1 an hour pumping gas in 73. We tend to forget the wage comparison when waxing on about prices today.
@@2wheelsgene171 In 1973 I was making $2.50 an hour as a senior in high school and still living at home. Buying a $1,200 motorcycles was a lot easier and the cars and bikes did not have all of the unnecessary BS electronics on them. Now, with Bidenflation and living on a pension and fixed SS income, a 30 + thousand $$ motorcycle would not be a very smart investment. Especially since the H-D line up no longer has a bike that is a simple machine. Oh, and I do not, and will not, own a $47k car.
@jroberthadden
Your rambling on tells me that you know nothing about economics, inflation, and how the past presidential administration affects future GDP, etc. Tell us more about the conspiracy theories you read off of Qanon. Lmao...
@@travelinman482 So now you just want to be rude. Go be rude to someone else.
What Harley-Davidson used to be it's not the Harley-Davidson we have today
I've have had 18 Harley-Davidsons, from 1925 to my current bike, a 2020 M8 Softail. The M8 Softail is head and shoulders more superior in every category than any Harley I've owned. All it lacks, for some folks, is the attachment to, "I hate change."
I agree with you but the USA is not what it used to be things change sometimes good sometimes not
@@twocupstwodrams7535 your Harley is nothing but a collection of government regulations on two wheels. The Milwaukee eight motor is even less reliable motor twin cam. If you have had so many Harley-Davidson you must not have kept them for too long. I have an elevation Sportster 883 that is almost 25 years old now and has 400,000 plus miles on it. The milwaukee-eight and the twin cam as well as the revolution Max the last guy dying of a once viable American company. Pretty soon every product on their sales floor will be all made in China. Frankly you Harley Fanboys amaze me. They can come up with shit on two wheels and you will pay an extraordinary price to purchase it and then you will spend a fortune correcting all of the factory penny-pinching low quality components in critical areas. But when it's running you can make lots of noise on bike night Whoopi do.
You most certainly put a lot of research into this magnificent presentation, thank you !
In 1972, I sold my amf sportster and purchased a Honda CBF 750 😉
I agree with you 100%. I'm a 40 yr old man who is on disability and I have come to the realization that I will never own a new Harley-Davidson. Even buying a used HD is out of my price range. For the reason of price alone, I ride Honda instead of HD. It feels like they do not care about getting someone on the best motorcycle in the world, they care more about getting you to make a loan with the bank. I have always wanted a Harley-Davidson and it really hurts me that I will never feel the joy of owning one.
You're not missing anything other than speed wobbles, pathetic brakes, and substandard acceleration.
This is the most refreshing little piece on Harley since I listened to Matt Laidlaws pieces on the new 883s. Keep it up mister. You are an absolute treat to listen to.
There are so many Harley Davidsons on the used market, it's kind of silly to buy a new one anyways. Eventually, the one you want will be for sale, just gotta be patient and ready.
And there are so many 2022’s on showroom floors they don’t have much room for 2023’s.
And so many of those used Harleys have unbelievably low mileage on them. Apparently many Harley owners only buy them to look at and brag about.
@@barryervin8536 I ride my Harley 8 to 10k a year (live in Iowa with winters or it would be a lot more). But you’re not totally wrong, there are many wannabes that just ride when it’s perfect out or only ride a few miles to the bar to show off.
@@barryervin8536 true, bought my 2014 in 2018 with 4500 miles on it, lam glad their non riders. Makes it a great deal for us riders.
Tbh it’s better to buy a pre owned Harley and put a stage 4 kit on it, it will still be cheaper than a brand new one I guess
You nailed it right on here. Yup, the regular fella could get a bike on his blue collar wages. I had a 1975 XLCH 1000cc 4 speed Sportster - was AMF years, but this bike never left me on the side of the road, I was one of the lucky ones - it liked oil though, lol.
Same with the cars, Mustang & Camaros & Chargers were cheaper than the full size Galaxie 500s, Impalas, Polaras/Monacos - now you have to be a dentist or high roller to grab a Mustang, etc - as with Harleys.
Me, I have enjoyed Japanese & Triumphs since - all fantastic value & reliability - you want true luxury - BMW 1250/1600, head and shoulders above HD. I like HD, but so ridiculous now & mark-up is ignorant.
Royal Enfield is nailing it with the price & value for new & old riders with their new 350cc Classic/Hunter/Meteor, the 650 Interceptors & the new Super Meteor 650 is the entry bike that Harley could have & should have made. (Bought a 2022 RE350 Classic myself, great machine).
Cheers & great video, hit the target dead centre.
You're spot on about Royal Enfield. I'm not crazy about the bikes but they're coming in at a decent price point for someone starting out or wrapping it up.
Yes, RE seems to be coming up a lot in these discussions. I'll have to do a video on their history because they're doing what Harley should be doing.
I have a 1975 XLCH 1000 I'm trying to get running and back on the road ....
Agree with you re RE. Considered a 650 but was a bit small for me and wound up with an MG V7 instead. Very temted to get a 350 signals as well though, for short hops and just looking at lol. Glad you're enjoying yours.
A GS1250 is more than a pan america 🤣 and Indian sport cheif is more than a lowrider s 🤣 gtfoh with ur pricing arguments
I'm 61 with 8 motorcycles in the garage - but zero Harleys. H-D offers anything you want as long as it's a V-twin cruiser, neither of which I want. So, Triumph, Honda and BMW have gotten my money.
Yep true story. In 79 I had a CB 450 that would run fantastic and never broke down. I'm not into buying an overpriced bike because of its name and unreliability, I don't fall for industry tactics. I have an 08 1600 Nomad that runs and rides fantastic. I saved it from a barn it had been sitting in for 5 yrs, paid $2500, pulled the standard maintenance and clean up and runs like new. Have had 2 HD owners offer me up to $7000 for it. It's not for sale I got it to ride. I'm the 2nd owner it looks almost brand new. Buying a HD was never a thought because of the history..
I guess we should just be thankful that Royal Enfield exists for beginner riders or anyone that want a quality, reliable, low purchase price and low cost to maintain motorcycle with a 3 year warranty which have a more retro style.
Very good bikes for the price.. got a Himalayan for my wife so we could ADV together and she loves it. And so easy to work on. Less than 6k out the door brand new. For reference, I have 2 Harleys,a Honda, and a Triumph Scrambler xe.
There an are solid deals out there to be had.
I just bought a vtx 1300 for 3k with just a hair over 12k miles.
I’d like a new bike, but like cars they want too much for them imo.
Hunter 350 is my first road bike. Other than some moderate pinging when hot it's a great riding little bike.simply made. Shotgun 650 looks to be even better.maybe in a few years.
This was spot-on, and it didn't even get into the blasphemy that is H-D importing and rebadging a 100% Chinese made motorcycle from Guanjun Motorcycles, then selling it as a Harley. Honestly, it's probably going to be a reasonably decent bike, but the only thing authentically Harley-Davidson about it is the sticker on the gas tank. Contrast that with the 100% American Made Honda Goldwing. And you can bet that the new Chinese fake Harley will cost $2,000 more than any direct competitor because of that Harley sticker. Even if I could afford a Harley, I wouldn't even consider one any longer.
Honda Gold Wings haven't been built in America since 2010. The plant in Marysville closed in 2010 and the machinery was taken back to Japan where all Gold Wings have been built since then.
@@barryervin8536 I stand corrected on that point.
Agreed 100%.... They need to bring back the Sportster buy back program and give the beginner riders a choice to upgrade their bike or not within the first year of riding. A price point just under 9k. It will allow the newcomer to become part of a family and also give them the experience on owning their very first Hog. They have to make a bike under 9k for the young people. A classic 600cc or 750cc cool looking bike... Maybe, a rake frame of some sort.
What would I trade my Sportster up to? The the pan am is pretty much the only Harley that might interest me but not at that price and it’s way too tall for my wife. No thanks. We’ll keep our evo Sportys.
I happily owned an 2000 FXST for 22 years. The FIRST time that I needed a problem serviced by a dealer, in 2021, I was told by the most reputable Dealer in this area, and I quote, "Sorry we don't work on any bike older than 2006. I bought a Kawasaki Vaquero and never looked back. 8600 miles later and I made the correct choice.
2000! what are you a shear cropper. I love my Vulcan.
@@johnmydosh1694 I get attached to vehicles, I usually drive them till they drop.
I’m 73 and somehow missed the great Harley dude craze. I did however buy a new cast iron Sportster around 1980 but it was incredibly unreliable so it was sold after a year. I’ve found happiness with BMW, KTM, Husqvarna and Ducati. I’m planning my 5th trip to the Arctic Ocean right now.
I don’t really want to dress like a pirate. I need an affordable, reliable motorcycle with good performance. HD are for more wealthy people who like to play dress up badass and for real bad assets whom I don’t want to be associated with due to employment concerns. (You do you)
Agree. I like cruiser motorcycles, I love Softails. I don’t wear like a clown putting “sons of youNameIt” to show off. I don’t want to be a part of this BS “brotherhood”. So I just need good looking good sounding affordable V-Twin cruiser. But harley’s business model of selling overpriced products to mommy’s rebels who wish to look badass walking out of their shiny skyscrapers gets me mad. Because Japanese manufacturers don’t make big V-twin cruisers anymore. So people like me are forced wether to by used harley or nakeds/sportbikes I personally don’t like.
@@AlexS-gn9tq The KAWASAKI VULCAN 1700 VOYAGER ABS is a decent touring cruiser 8-10K less then a Harley. Yes not many metric cruisers out there other than Honda Rebel. I personally have a naked street bike and a mid weight Adventure touring bike. Both these bikes new together would be cheaper than a new Harley bagger. I steer younger kids towards Royal Enfield if you have a dealer in your area. Affordable basic motorcycle, that’s what I would buy if I was younger and trying to make it.
This is another video every Harley fan should see. I’ve had one since 1974, when as a teenager, I bought a used Sportster XLCH. Still have my ‘78 Lowrider. But I will never get another, that’s for damn sure!
Great video. You hit it right on the head.
This is why I got the new Rebel 1100cc Honda.
And I love it. 12,690 miles and not one problem. Greetings from the Jersey shore.
Have to agree, they have betrayed their customers. I don't buy T-shirts anymore, they got rid of the Dynas which were my favorite, and the big McHarley Stores seemed to take away from the experience of Harley. They turned into what car dealerships were. They don't give you a fair price on your trade-in, the models now are crazy expensive and they push you to buy a bunch of accessories for your bike and pretty much break you. The last one I bought was a 2014 Road King and I feel like I got raped. My first two were Dynas and I felt pretty good after buying them. Not anymore. Now I buy used, a 2003 Sporty and kept the Road King even though its not what I want. Harley has ruined the experience of what Harley was. The cost to much, the cost to much to work on. My advice, buy used, buy aftermarket parts, get a manual, and do your own work (you can find a lot of vids on You Tube).
Very well said. I can't understand why anyone would go to a dealer for basic repairs? I worked in a motorcycle dealership, 2 of them. They have punk kids in the back that are doing the repairs, who are only being paid minimum wage. There is no license required for working on a motorcycle, so they have an 18 year old kid in the back that is taking your bike apart. That's why there are so many stories of bikes being ruined after bringing them to a dealer for a basic repair. Motorcycle mechanics are far harder to find, because there are very few good mechanics, and even the good mechanics are not very good. You have to find a motorcycle racer who builds his own motorcycles and engines, and then ask him to specifically work on your bike, otherwise you're risking your life with some minimum wage person with no experience working on your bike,
Yes your exactly Wright they push my local Harley dealer out to they were in business since 1958 good people to deal with these bigger dealers wanted steel your used bike in trade on new one
This is why I ride a RE Interceptor, fun to ride, inexpensive to buy, maintain & modify.
Well done video, time will tell how good your fortune telling is.
Thanks for your content, I always enjoy.
I'm thinking king of swapping my sporty 883 for an interceptor, something with 6 gears and more comfort. Would you do many miles on your interceptor? I'm thinking of taking it around Europe. Thanks
@@rorydoyle3251 I have done several hundred kilometres a day several times with no issue with comfort, I have changed the seat, front & rear shocks as well as the tires and mufflers.
All have made the bike more fun to ride, was fine stock, now is just better (for me).
I wouldn’t hesitate to recommend an Interceptor to anyone.
@@darylwootton5217 sounds good. Thanks for the reply 👍
Rory take a look at the new super meteor
@Mbo 348 I've had the bobber and cruiser style bikes before, im looking to try something a bit different. The super meteors a fantastic looking bike though.
Great video! Internal combustions will never be outlawed! Thanks for posting.
Harley was my bucket list bike, and has been quite reliable with normal, regular maintenance. I admit I'm a very casual rider, no burnouts, wheelies, no high speed hard shifting. Yes I'm near retirement..65...but I bought mine used as no way I could swing a new price. You are correct as they need to reel in prices, they have become a "boutique" brand. Also...labor...100.00+ an hour now. Yes I've "changed" things to better fit me...but Harley can't continue on this course of "we're great, we always will be".
20 years ago I was working in west TX and went to the oldest HD dealership in the country in Big Spring. It was tiny and had a shop and only 3 or 4 new bikes on the floor. It was so cool. It is now gone. Sad to say you are right. I have no idea what to do to keep them relevant. I still have my old 2010 sportster 1200. It is ugly and dirty but I still love it. Best bike I've ever owned. I got it used for 5k. I remember in the 80s you could get a brand new Sportster for $4,995.00 and they would give $4,995.00 trade in value the next year. I thought that was cool.
You know those fixed income retiree's you spoke about.... that's me. I had a tube frame Buell a few years ago and loved it but I moto camp now so an ADV style bike suits me better and my needs and purse like the look of but not the price and size of the Pan Am. Current rides are a custom Honda CG125 I built for my son and rattle round town on, a 1974 Triumph T140 flat tracker which I am determined to finish building this year and my trusty 2015 Suzuki VStrom 650 which I have no plans to change.
About 18 months ago i purchased a used 2004 Honda VTX1300S bagger with 21k miles for $2400.. It came with a comfy Mustang seat, backrest, Cobra pipes and recent Michilin Commander tires.. Ive since put 5500 trouble free miles on it and could not be happier. Its black, has spokes, floorboards, shaft drive, water cooled, carbureted, and has a single crankpin V twin so it makes all tje right sounds. Its been dead reliable so far. I could never afford a motorcycling experience at this level any other way.
Still love the 70's home made cafe racers. Saw some fabulous examples, minimalist but packed out with whacking great Harley engines. Rear sets and drop bars, these bikes were pulling the ton even at standstill. I never got the easyrider Dave Mann thing when there were these beauties to salivate over.
While I love Harleys and everything they stood for before, I’m only considering buying a used one from another old guy who’s hanging up his helmet. My father grew up in the hay day of the British bikes and watched from the sidelines (family man) when the Japanese took over in the 70’s/80’s….I still have his last bike, a Honda CB 350 which turned out to be my first. I’m that mid 50’s post baby boomer which has everything paid for, still have a few yrs left before I retire and could buy a new Hog cash, but it’s just not worth the crazy prices. Harley nowadays seems to be digging it own hole…
I’m in the same boat… everything paid for.. I’m 63.. can buy a new Harley cash….but I’m not paying 10k over msrp so some dealership exec can take a 2 week Hawaiian vacation..
Great video man.
The lack of foresight by Harley is truly mind-blowing.
Your estimate that they will be selling half the product in 10 years is really high in my opinion. I think the company will be out of business around ten years from now. The upcoming generation of guys who think Harley is cool is SO SMALL, even around my age (early 40s). They are done, man. Done. Those Harley showroom floors may as well prepare to be museums in the near future 👍🏻
Every person in the Pacific Northwest only likes Harleys. I see people don't like fast or good motorcycles, they only like Harleys. I'm not seeing this lack of interest that this video talks about. I see more interest in Harleys now than 5 years ago. I worked at a hospital, and two of the guys who worked there drove Harleys, one was the $65,000 CVO, it was such a beautiful bike, and looked so expensive. There were no other motorcycles, only the 2 Harleys in the entire hospital. When I'm riding I see that about 75% of all motorcycles are Harleys. As far as I can tell, all new riders prefer Harleys, they don't know anything about "performance" only the image and status. There's actually a minority of people who want a fast, high performance motorcycle. We are in the minority, that's why Harley sold 350,000 motorcycles in 2006.
You hit the nail on the head here. I bought my very first bike ever last year an it was a 2002 Harley Davidson Softail heritage . Idk if I'm lucky or not it costed me under 7 thousand dollars but I bought it from an individual. Will say it was and is well looked after but it might be the only Harley I buy. Might buy an Indian after later on
A few months ago I got the itch to upgrade I got pre approved for a loan from my credit union went to the dealership who had the exact used bike that I wanted as I began negotiating the price I mentioned that I was already pre approved. I was told that the dealership did not allow out of state financing but would gladly finance me for over 4% more than my credit union. I said that would be great as I was leaving
I am a huge fan of Honda. My first dirt bike and street bike were both Hondas. My first brand new vehicle, of any type, was a Honda. I still have a soft spot for H-D. I’m hoping to get an early 2000’s Nightster. There’s something about that bike that warms my heart. I do love almost all things two wheels, so there’s that. Thanks for the video. Your straightforward and honest in your content. We really need that today.
Iam 63 yrs old, Iam madly in love with my 2014 soft tail heritage. It's not about performance, it's all about a notalgic experience that no one dose better than HD. It took a long time to get there , but my bike is a premium highly reliable machine, that being Said l will never buy another bike of any kind. What dose harley need to thrive in the future? A high quality high volume reasonably priced entry level bike that connects to the next generation of riders. Will they build it? I doubt it. They will most likely buy it and put there name on it. Meanwhile Indian builds the 60 and Royal Enfield ? Well someone will even if HD doesn't.
Do it!! I own one! My first bike! It's raw and real and it's what a Harley is meant to be. You won't regret.
Stil riding a 96 sportster, bach in 84 had a Honda VT500. It was great, no complaints.
Well prepared and very enjoyable. Thank you. I think that you are very likely correct. One other factor that’s difficult to ignore, as I watch the new generation of young people, is that young people these days have barely enough interest to get a driver’s licence. A motorcycle licence isn’t on their radar, nor could they afford ownership. This is going to be a difficult decade or two for all manufacturers and it’s sad to see the decline.
This is true, my son is 15 and does not care anything about a learners permit.
In 1984 I bought a brand new bright red 1000cc Sportster XLX-61from Wilkins Harley Davidson in Barre/Montpelier, Vermont. At that time the "dealership" was what could best be described as a converted older farmhouse. A friend had told me that if I paid cash, the owner would give me $500 of the price of the motorcycle. I don't remember who exactly I dealt with but the price for that new Sportster was $3,995. The deal he gave me was I gave him $1000 cash down, when the bike came in I gave him $2,495 more cash and he gave me the $500 off the list (there was probably tax and reg too I suppose). It was the simplest most easy new vehicle purchase I have ever made. No pressure salesman, no slick dealership shenanigans, just straightforward here's the deal. I can not imagine ever getting that kind of honest deal ever again anywhere. BTW, I loved that Sportster but after getting married and with the onset of our first child, the Sportster had to be sold to help pay for a family trickster (sigh!). I still think of that sportster every now and again. I loved its simplicity, the smell, the engine shaking idling at a stop light. To me it was a real honest motorcycle.
Very good story. And it smells the truth.
I just bought a '23 Breakout. With a few mods of course....but it's the first Harley that I though hit the mark in todays look. Hopefully they are on to something! 👍
Man, this is exactly how I have been feeling about the brand... it is very sad because I'm also a fan of Harley.
I bought a great Harley in 2015, brand new... a Dyna Low rider. 5 years later, I can't really afford the M8 bike I want and not to mention the cost on top of it to put pipes and get the bike to a bare minimum state. I then went with a Triumph T120... to buy it brand new and add all the accessories it ended up something like 15K+ cheaper than going with HD.
There is also something very strange going on: The dealerships here in Australia are filled with second hand bikes that are priced very high and have been for sale for months without ever having its priced lowered. Nobody is buying anything but the prices won't budge... I really don't understand :)
Anyway, love your vids, man!
The second hand prices are part of the broader company’s strategy in elevating the status of the brand to “boutique”. They’re setting themselves up to fail.
Super solid point regarding the after purchase expense of setting the bike up. Between parts and labor I have $10k USD into my bike on top of the msrp of initial purchase.
The same thing is going on in California and Arizona at H-D dealerships.
Back in 2006 the (ex distributor for HD) I worked at was bringing in repossessed bikes from the USA into Australia to sell used...
Honestly I was not impressed with the sales rep or the prices at my local Harley dealer. Went to an Indian test drive event and loved the Chief Darkhorse, and walked out with one at a much better price than what Harley asking, and their outrages dealer fees.
good luck finding polaris dealers across the country ! try asking a guy who bought a new Victory a few years back hoe he was treated by Polaris, Victory & Indian!!! hahahahahaha They got the ole middle finger salute
Another beautiful and intreging video. Thanks very much. Love your channel.
As a late arrival to the Harley brand, I came from sport bikes and was told if I wanted another bike, it’d be a cruiser. Bought my first sportster 7 years ago. Cut my teeth on learning how to maintain it when I was told an oil change was over 150 and a two week wait at a local service place(not a dealership)
Moved up to the anniversary edition after a few years and finally to the 48. Then notice how much the Harley tax has gone up and watch as they kill off the models that were popular and easier to get into as well as the reason people got the Harley Davidson. To be seen as a rebel or different. It was the brand of bike for the outsider, the rebel the loner type. The ones who didn’t go with the flow.
Now, at the end of their era, every lawyer, accountant or necktie strangled yuppie is riding one to be cool or a weekend warrior and the image of an almost gunfighter riding off into the sunset, handle it on my own is dying a slow steady death.
I wanted one because the unaccepted, the outcast, the ignored or even deplorable types rode one. You were accepted and even understood by your community. Now….well, look at the electric Harley and that abomination that is to replace the sportster and tell me what it says. It says yuppie scum to me. It also says,”screw you outsider types. We want to fit in.”
No thanks. I’d relay her be a little different than alot like everyone else.
You totally nailed it but forgot to mention many riders jumping ship over to Indian.
I’m like many riders out there, riding my old bike and enjoying it even more as it’s been paid off many years ago 👍
I agree , riders were jumping to Indian , now however Indian has gone down the same path as Harley way overpriced and underbuilt expensive normal care and God if service is needed . No more wrenching in your garage and Parts (only through dealership ) . I am one of the older Boomers ,I will keep riding my Harley ( Trike ) and when or if I buy another it will be Trustworthy Metric .
I'm coming up to 69 years old. I ride a nice 1100 Honda 2 years old. I would love to have a Harley, but with a mortgage, a family, and a pretty good pension; a $35,000 Harley isn't in the cards.
And I don't want to buy a used bike that I have to repair regularly.
It's sad, but your video is spot-on.
Well said! Demographics matter these days and Millenials are the big group coming into their peak earning years right now. If Harley doesn't build bikes to appeal to them it's all downhill from here.
Point of order: AMF gets a bad rap, due to selective memory. They literally saved the company, as it was on the verge of shutting down.
AMF is responsible for moving HD out of the dark ages, with the introduction of electronic ignition, standardizing electric start, and development of the EVO engine.
Yes, AMF developed the EVO. Willy G got credit for putting it into production, but shoehorned it into the existing chassis, while dragging the company back to the old ways, letting things stagnate for 30 years. Innovation was thrown out, only making changes when forced to do so, by increasing regulation. He's directly responsible for the state the company is in.
Just sold mine. Among many other reasons, felt as though if i didnt, and with the economy going the way its going now, didnt know if id be able to keep it, and could use the extra cash. It was harder than hell to find a dealer to take it. The biggest dealer in my area with two dealerships is still sitting on 2022 models. Harley is not doing too well this year.
I live about 25 minutes from Harley HQ and it's obvious they're trying to be like Ferrari but in bike form. It's REALLY hard for me to trade in my 2011 dyna street bob that has the 110 tire shredder kit (thus making it a 20k+ bike) for a new model when it's already faster and PAID FOR and the fact that my dyna is worth next to nothing in terms of trade in value...smh
The best bike I ever owned was a 2000 Honda Valkyrie. I gave mine to my son and there is no limit to the amount of money he has won from those who failed to believe he could rev the water-cooled, 6-opposing-cylinder motor while standing a dime on it's edge on the tranny without having it tip over. Now that is smooth!
It handled great both around town and on long trips. It was undoubtedly the best bike I ever owned... and I've owned many over my 50+ years of riding. Sadly, a brain tumor has put an end to my riding. But, thanks to that bike, my craving to ride will never cease!
Good video, Harley Davidson needs to start focusing on selection, quality, and price. The Pan Am as mentioned is a step in the right direction, but taking aim at BMW GS right out of the barn is probably a bad choice of tactics, they need to build that market image and reliability before they try to pass themselves off as a great ADVENTURE motorcycle, it has no Adventure pedigree to back its boast.
It's sad. But i dont think it matters anymore.
There is variety of brands and qualities coming from different corners of the world that are ready to take Harley's place. Honestly? Beautiful as the Breakout may be, I am way, way more interested in the RE Super Meteor.
Fully aware that we may as well be in the last decade of IC engines and all this may be for naught. Because I really cant care for electric vehicles not one bit.
Yep. In a decade and a half there will be big money in restoring old IC vehicles once no more new ones are being built.
Or, thousands of jobs will be lost in manufacturing and ancillary support, as ICE becomes illegal and emissions rule put and legacy vehicles. My money is on the latter. Makes no economic sense whatever, but there it is.
New ones will be built. People are finding out how impractical and unsustainable EVs really are and there will be a fight to keep ICE's despite the green new deal forcing this crap on us...
Totally agree. Who the hell wants an electric motorbike. They will just be for the about town Bimblers and it will all be over....but that's what these Globalists want. You will do as we say and keep your mouth shut.
Wow, $65k?! I guess I will keep my AMF shovelhead with the oil pan underneath. The description of the loyal customer with the old shovelhead who can't afford a new Harley fits me perfectly. I parked my original 1980 Wide Glide (FXWG) after getting a more reliable and bigger Yamaha Road Star. I have the Hog but was going to get a new one. I guess this video helped me rethink that plan.
Great content!
The CVO line isn't for broke dicks. There are people that don't bat an eye at burning 60k on a bike 300k on an RV and 50k on a watch. HD is well aware of this. They ha e plenty of other bikes in the mid teens
I have a Road Star myself, Looks like a Harley and sounds like a Shovelhead...
@@Bass.Playernothing sounds like a shovelhead 😂
I'm appalled at Harley Davidson for there lack of not being able to provide a bike that appeals to everyone.
I bought a new Triumph yesterday at a combo Harley/Triumph/KTM dealer out in the far northwest burbs of Chicago. My talk with the business manager on the deal was eye opening. She said that a lot of the die hard Harley customers only keep their bikes a couple years and then trade for the newest model. There's a huge inventory of used machines there. She also said that Harley will finance just about anyone with a pulse (at crazy interest rates, of course) and as a result, lots of owners end up losing their machines to the repo man. They're very creative about getting you on a Harley. That said, my dealer experience was fantastic. Everyone was about as nice and friendly as could be. There is something to be said about the Harley community. As for prices, well Harley certainly is not alone. Other than the new 400cc models, the cheapest Triumph is about 10 grand before all the dealer charges, taxes, doc fees, etc. It'll be 13k before you can get it out the door. And people should check the price of a Honda of late. It'll easily set you back 7k out the door for a single cylinder CB300R....a naked bike with about 28Hp. It's simply not an inexpensive hobby anymore.
Such a great, detailed video!! I will be one who will be sticking with my Honda. :)
Good choice!
Yep, ... This year I sell my Fatboy from 2010 which I bought in 2019 for €15.000,- !! ($16300,- USD) Yes, you read this correct. An almost 10 year old HD Fatboy cost easy $16.000 USD in my country. Than all the upgrades I did for better performance, better faring and so for. The prices for HD's go through the roof in my country. And what do I get? The same old stuff in different colors?
For €10.000,- I can buy a brand new Royal Enfield Super Meteor 650 cruiser which I think wil crush the small cruiser market. I am going to test ride it and maybe buy two bikes for the same price. One for me and one for my wife!! 😉
Just a little edit: In The Netherlands where I live, the 2023 CVO Road Glide Limited costs ...................$78161,37 USD!! 🤑
I have a Harley, but have never paid full price for any of their apparel. They take total advantage of their loyal customer base and people are getting tired of it. I agree, $60-$100 for a long or short sleeve shirt is ridiculous. Not to mention everything else that's over priced. They are not paying attention.
I’ve never been a big HD guy always thought they were overpriced, just bought a 2017 Triumph bobber and I love it !
In the 1960s the British motorcycle industry were selling every motorcycle that they could produce. In the 1970s they had such incompetent management and such a hostile Workforce that they drove themselves into the ground. When the Yen was worth 400 t o the dollar Japanese motorcycles were relatively affordable. Now that the yen is 85 all of the Japanese motorcycle production as well as car production has moved offshore because you're just now too expensive to build a car or a motorcycle in Japan. The Japanese motorcycles of the seventies were great but where are they now either in a collection or a junkyard. British German Italian motorcycles and the old Harleys were built to be rebuildable forever. Now everything is planned obsolescence. Even Harley since the Evolution motor.
Agreed...but the Evo motor is the best and most reliable Harley made....so of course they had to screw with it.
Unfortunately dealers are becoming large groups.. one family in particular had a huge amount of dealer groups. And they are literally con artists raping people out of money. There are a few small dealers out there and I try to give them my money. Although buying a new Harley is not going to ever happen again for me. I got a 98 Springer and a 2000 Electraglide in my stable. The EG has a 128 and full suspension and brakes set up... Really no reason to buy anything else from there.
That is a very good point. H-D sells on its "Heritage", so why would you buy a newer machine when you've already got that "Heritage"? The engines are reasonably reliable these days, after all, they are so under stressed because they're not expected to produce huge power. And most machines do a tiny yearly mileage in comparison with cars, so why would anybody spend all that extra money to replace their machine with something which, well, isn't as "Heritage" as their old machine?
H-D long ago abandoned any pretence at actually making significant improvements to their machines, each new year's catalogue was hardly any different to any previous year's catalogues. While your customers are flush with money, it comes as no surprise that they might want to occasionally update their ride, but when that update becomes a mortgage extension, or your (grand)child's University fees, it's an easy decision to not upgrade again. And after a few more years of not upgrading, that machine becomes more and more a friend that you just don't want to part with anyway. if the replacements were significantly better... maybe. But they really aren't.
Absolutely agree.
I agree here is SOCAL the dealerships have been bought up by large automotive groups and are being run like car dealerships. Everyone I know hate buying cars because of the tactics used in these corporate dealerships.
Excellent post.
I'm glad I bought my Harley in 2000.
There were three HOG clubs to visit near my home and they always had rides and events going.
Those were good times.
My FXDWG cost $16,000 which was plenty but I have had numerous wonderful experiences with it.
Trouble free for 85,000 miles. I've replaced brakes and batteries and put new spokes in both wheels after the some of the spokes seized and could no longer be adjusted.
I plan to keep it till I croak.
Once again, you’re right on the money. Outstanding analysis.
It can happen.
Every pharmacy, newspaper stand, tourist shop, you name it, sold Kodak film.
Ask a sub 20 year old if they've even *heard* of a company called Kodak today.
It's happening, but with a different ending than Kodak. Livewire will prove to be a brilliant move around 2035.
a buddy of mine told me (he's a Harley Guy) the "HD" in Harley - Davidson stands for "Hundred Dollars",,,, on each/everything you buy is gonna cost aleast that.
I'm one of the guys that bought one of the AMF Shovel Heads. Yes it leaked a little oil and had rear brake problems but I did my part to keep the company alive. As soon as Willey Davidson bought the company folks like myself were priced out the new bike Harley market. For the people that bought Harleys when you could ride 300 miles and not see one other Harley on the road there was no appreciation their dedication to the brand.
I went from an old 500 LTD to an R6 traded it for a FZ1. Believe it or not I'm rocking a 03 750 shadow spirit now and really have no reason to ride anything else. Love it and it's paid for.
Nice video, once again!
I completely agree with your analysis.
I would love it if you did a similar video on Triumph (my favorite), Ducati, KTM and BMW. I am sure that the contrast with HD would be interesting. How Triumph dies and was reborn, how KTM has grown, or how BMW always seems to get it right.
No pressure, just an idea.
I love your content.
Dave
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@KadiddlehopperClem which part is funny?
Well said. I was just gonna write something similar to request a Triumph story but you beat me to it. Let's hope we get a roasting on Triumph's shady business tactics to read and watch on Different Spokes..
I think BMW kinda mist the mark on the R18. They make a cruiser and then they put those huge ass cylinders were the floor boards are supposed to go. So you sit like an adventure bike.Then they topped it off with a pair god awful looking pipes. To me that's as bad as making a V-Rod that you sit like a cruiser. Just what group are they shooting for. We know how the V-Rod turned out. I am not a BMW hater but I don't think they got it right with the R18. But those cylinders do make good crash guards so maybe they were thinking about safety, maybe. What are your thoughts.
@@roblow5522 I have to agree with you on that. It was such a miss that I don't even think of it when I think of BMW. LOL
I agree with you 100%!! Sadly, like a romance novel with an unexpected ending... HD is truly a timeless story that will be told for generations to come!! Excellent content Sir!
I never bought into the HD "mystique". They sound like they are missing all the time. I've had 14 Hondas in my life; will never get anything else!
I’ll be a Harley fan till the end. I’m 32 now, had several Harley’s, currently riding on my 2021 fatboy with a 131 stage 4, bassani exhaust, comfy seats, led head/indicator lights, and other little goodies. There are some good brands that are nice but imo nothing beats a Harley!
I own and love an 03 Electra Glide but I won't buy another Harley but I won't sell the one I have either. I just bought Two brand new Chinese bikes for less than a sportster. Harley has gotten stale and greedy and I'm no fanboy anymore. I just like to ride. I love riding all kinds of bikes. If Harley ever gets their heads out of their tail pipes I would love to support them again.
In an era when the middle class is getting squeezed the new bikes getting more expensive is a bad move.
You hit the nail on the head.
I have a Harley and I caught it in 21, I thought it was overpriced then, and even more so now.
I Can honestly say I probably won’t but a newer Harley Davidson. Dealers are crap, prices are over priced, if I do buy something it will be to chop it or modify it. Cheers amigo
I am 66 years old I Purchased my first Harley 1981. It was a rolling basket case, but I was able to bring it back to life. It was Totaled in 1985. I had a decent job and made good money, but with a family there is just no way I could justify the kind of money they wanted for a new Harley here in Michigan. I ride and maintain late 90s vintage Harleys.
Yeap Im here in Chicago. Oak Lawn Harley, Crete Harley and Harley in Crown Point all CLOSED. Bikes are over priced & dealerships are far and few between.
I started riding when I was 15 (60 now) and in that time I have been fortunate enough to ride a huge variety of bikes. I've always loved the road bikes though. I took my wife on tour with me on the Ultra Classic. She fell in love with it. Sadly around 2006, I watched as wages stagnated and prices sored on everything including the beloved HD. I began to tell my friends that HD was going to price themselves right out of the market. Shortly after that there were dealerships closing left and right. Then 2008 hit and the bottom fell out for a lot of people including myself. I sold a lot of what I had just trying to survive. After about 5 years I got back on my feet but to get another motorcycle was just too much money. To me it seems like HD is just targeting the wealthy, which is a much smaller pool and many of them just aren't into motorcycles. To get a younger crowd (and a larger pool of customers), HD needs to think like the younger crowd and maybe even take a look at the younger ones from the past and what they rode. I can guarantee you it wasn't an 800 lb motorcycle. Baggers are cool, if you're 50+ but if you're in your 20's to 30's, you're more likely into those bikes that HD are cutting. The full size very customizable Softail is definitely a bike of interest and you shouldn't have to pay a fortune for it. To keep them hooked, keep the prices of the bikes and gear affordable. That way they will continue to purchase more accessories for their bikes as well as riding gear. And the more they purchase the more hooked they will get and the longer they'll stick with it. You'll then have a (younger) customer for life.
Wow you nailed it 👍
Thanks!
exellent work dude!
My first Harley, I was 15 bought a Repeado 125 for $295. I still have good times thinking about that bike.
I'm turning 60, never had a HD, (God, has blessed me). Owned nothing but good ole' Japanese RICE-GRINDERS! Love them, always starts, and when they don't I've got a kick-starter. Not a fan of the newer bikes, had an '04 FJR,,,, nope, give me a good ole' UJM from the mid 70's to the mid '80's. Soon, I'll be hangin' up my helmet......
Yeah, had some great nap biked, loved my 96 magna 750, and my 1100 arrow, only issue is that ,if you need a rebuild it cost more than the value of the bike, where as the HD will at least give you return for your dollar.