Is Harley Davidson losing their customers?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- Timms Harley Davidson
Anderson, SC
864-224-1531
In this video I shed some light on how the motorcycle industry works and why some guys are switching from Harley Davidson to Indian Motorcycles.
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The opinions in this video are my own and not in any way representative of Harley Davidson Motor Company or Timms Harley Davidson or any other brands or organizations.
“Get complacent… do the bare minimum…” LMAO. That’s been the Harley-Davidson motto for 50 years. The aftermarket has carried HD for the last 20 years.
I think they did a good job with their newer more "modern" motorcycles. The pan am is an excellent adv.
50 try 100 yrs
@@ziting5756I've seen a lot of pan am reliability issues in my motorcycling groups, and not even in the usual hurrdurr Harley bad ways
Are you a mechanic?
20 years 😂😂😂they’ve been carrying them since the 70s ffs
All of this is irrelevant unless consumers switch. A lot of my brothers either don't know or don't care who these guys are. But in my town, there's a Harley dealership with an Indian dealership right next door. Over the past three years or so, several of my brothers were in the market for new baggers. 3 of the 5 bought an Indian. When I asked why, some said because they like them more, some said because of Harleys business practices, some gave Harley going woke as a reason, and some said they were just ready for change. However, all of them said "I got more bike for my money".
There's the bottom line. Personally, I'm giving Indian a real serious look. Had you asked me 10 years ago, I would have laughed. But, times, they are a change'n.
I feel the same way. I see them as a contender now when I didn't before. I think Indian is going all in with this push to try and get their product in front of people. As far as the guys I mentioned, the people that do know them know they rode HD and now they don't and I think that was Indians goal.
@throttleblip9854
The moment you had said, "IMC was paying people, not racers, to switch brands"...I had to stop the video. EVRY motorcycle company out there has paid racers to ride, develop, and/or promote their bikes. Ford, GM, and Ram has done this time and time again. You almost come off like Matt Laidlaw's whiny ass. Almost.
You won’t regret it…they are great bikes. Love my Scout.
I can only imagine how narrow and filled with hate your life just be if the Harley Davidson lifestyle is too woke for yoy
I still think Polaris made a mistake dropping the Victory brand and went full throttle with Indian.
I switched over to Indian couldn’t be happier and haven’t looked back.
Which one did you get and what did you ride before?
Thanks for your review. Your analysis is spot on.
I have loved HD Motorcycles ever since I started to walk. I've owned several brands and types of bikes throughout my life. Then, twenty years ago, I had stopped riding altogether.
Fast forward to August of last year.
I was going through a rough time last year, with a divorce in process and the death of my oldest granddaughter. My ex brother-in-law had recommended the Indian FTR to me because that's the type of bike that he thought that I should get. Instead, I had bought an Indian Scout ABS Black Metallic. I absolutely loved the bike, but I had felt that it wasn't enough bike for longer rides. So, I had traded it in for a 2017 Indian Chieftain Limited. I have ridden it every day ever since the snow had thawed enough here in North East Utah to ride.
I chose Indian Motorcycless because not everyone has one. Unfortunately, you are correct on the dealer network. I have a Harley dealership just a couple miles away from me here in Vernal Utah, but my closest Indian dealership is 2.5 hours away. But, I'm willing to travel that far in order to have work or maintenance performed on my bike.
I don't need an influencer to tell me what I should or shouldn't ride, I choose my own path, and Indian Motorcycles is the path I chose to explore the open roads.
People like you are the ones keeping Indian alive. You’re willing to do what most people aren’t. 1 being to be different and 2 willing to travel to the dealership. It’s going to take people like you doing that to give them what they need to expand.
My Indian dealership only 20 min away from me
The lack of dealer network and support just drove me to purchase more tools and learn to wrench on my own bikes. I have a '16 Springfield (30k miles) I rebuilt from a collision with a deer at 70mph and a '21 Roadmaster (40k miles). I do all my own work and never have to worry about somebody else not doing it right. I also have trust issues with technicians though... Ha😄
My local club was only 2 indians when I joined. Many more now. They are a better bang for the buck, and if you are close to a dealer they typically are great people. Have 2 myself, zero problems and haven't felt the need to do many mods, they are nearly perfect from the factory.
I always thought I'd buy a Road King, always. Then I rode an Indian Springfield. TO be fair, it had stage2 cams, TABs and an Arlen Ness HO filter and a dyna tune module included. What I noticed immediately is the pull and quickness the Indian had. Plus, with the shallower rake, it handles like a much smaller bike than its size would suggest. Short story, I went with the Indian and 3 years later I couldn't be happier. I still like the RK, at least the more classic version.
Great vlog as always🤘 I am a 20+ year Harley-Davidson rider, owner, and HOG member that switched to Indian Motorcycle. Purchased two with plans to purchase a third. For me, it was primarily the service departments at three dealerships in two different states (plus the out the door price of the bikes; NOT MSRP, which is similar) that drove me through the Indian Motorcycle doors and on to their bikes. Love and still own my THREE Harleys but it would be a VERY BIG challenge for a dealership to get me back as a customer and on a new Harley-Davidson motorcycle again🤷♂ Indian Motorcycle (FOR ME) has the AMERICAN heritage of an ICONIC brand, quality, performance, aesthetics, and customer service that has made me a return customer with no plans to change to another brand (MAYBE a KTM Duke 890😎). Again great VLOG as always!!!🤘👊
Club members are leaving Harley. Definitely not being paid to. Mostly because Harley has alienated the customer base.
I've seen a few 1% guys on BMW and Goldwings. I think the days of buy a Harley just to have a Harley are coming to an end. Consumers want the best bang for their buck.
Club members are the ones that will specifically not leave Harley lol wtf are you talking about? 😂
Harley Davidson had some fantastic ideas and motorcycle concepts in the past. But their biggest downfall is that they are stuck in a stigmata. Everyone thinks a Harley should be "X" style and design. Air cooled, not liquid, etc. Another is that they are less refined than Indian. They had poor quality in the past and still follow them today. 3rd is they are priced a third more than most other comparable brands/ models. Granted, that affords them to have more dealerships, but the consumer doesn't see that while making a $35-40k purchase.
I bought an Indian Scout because it was mid sized cruiser, and liquid cooled for running around Phoenix 90°+ days. I was looking at a Harley, but the sales person kept pushing me for a bigger bike than I was comfortable with, and they didn't have a liquid cooled my size. What they did have was a third more momey than the Scout and half the size
I just "switched"... Owned a harley but was in market for another. When comparing the two Indian just offered way more than Harley. If I bought the Harley it would have needed another 10-15k just to bring it to the level Indian offered. Pulled the trigger which wasn't easy but now owning an Indian I am shocked at how much better the build quality is, I never knew because I just assumed Harley was the best. They are losing customers for sure and Indian is getting better with each release. Harley needs to step their game
Congrats on your new Polaris
@@jacquesduplessis6310 If he would have bought a Harley would you congratulate him on his new AMF piece of dog sh- t
@@jacquesduplessis6310Dosnt matter u can try and dog Indian but they will whip anything Harley makes with ease it’s better bikes overall I’ve had both
@jacquesduplessis6310 nice try at flexing, but you're essentially admitting that Polaris makes a better bike than Harley 😂
@@NicePantsLance
Must be American? Look up the meaning of flexing Ass.
I’m a huge fan of Harley but I admit I did check out Indian this past weekend and demoed the Challenger DarkHorse and actually really liked it. I have a 22 Road Glide ST, on my channel, and just checking out the competition. Absolutely see why people like them. Good video, brother!!!
A few of my brothers in my MC have already bought the Sport Chef and the Challenger bagger.
As a proud owner of a stunning 2019 Indian Springfield in steel gray and burgundy metallic, I can attest, Cruiser Heaven, all day, every day!
My local Harley dealer just wants to sell new bikes and t-shirts. Service is simply atrocious. Last time had an electrical short, charged $700 for new fuel pump, excetera and after 3 months during the summer found the loose electrial wire. Filed a complaint with Better Buisness and the didn't deny it and didn't return my money. Said they would send a $500 gift card, called two weeks later and said they forgot. I'm in my mid-sixties and was planning on a trike. Now I figure that when the Extra Glide hits 100,000 miles in a couple of years I'll give it to one of my boys to rebuild and buy any other brand.
Every Harley dealership I ever walked into had gangsters /thugs and/or drug addicts working there , had 1 Harley never again
Yes, totally agree. No one improves without being humbled here and there.
Exactly. Indian doesn't have the same network Harley has. Independent shops have Harley mechanics. Aftermarket parts.
As far as these high dollar builds, it's not for the average rider. We have to work piecemeal to get half what these high dollar builds have. I can't afford a custom stage 4 with custom paint and parts. I don't smoke a tire or do wheelies. I will ride on long trips and baby what i have. Do required maintenance.
If they want to give me a $130k custom tire scorcher, by all means. Until then, I'm an average rider with limited funds that can still have a good time on my Harleys.
The reason I have seen is Indian offers more for your money. A simple example is I just got an out the door price for a vivid black sport glide standard at $27599. For that same price I could go to Indian and get a top tier model instead of a standard. The prices I talk about are Washington State.
I own a 2021 UL. I really like the competition. It keeps other manufacturers honest and pushes them not to sit back and rely on their name.
I have been riding bikes since I was kid, started in the dirt and then moved to the street Rode sport bikes, then when I was away in Europe on a vacation I rented a bike (Honda ADV) that I never thought I would ride. Toured the whole country and was hooked on long haul riding. Traded in my litre bike on a Ducati MTS 1260 and then finally got my Harley that I wanted since I was a kid. Yes I looked at what Indian had to offer but it wasn't a Harley. I bought a 2020 RGS and absolutely love this bike!
So, you "looked", but didn't "ride"? BIG mistake!
It's because Harley Davidson don't want their customers to work on their own bikes, HD FORCES you to do work at your local dealer because they have EXCLUSIVE rights to the ELECTRONIC TOOL BOX and if you need to do ANYTHING ELECTRICAL on an electronic EVERYTHING bike..Wait till your body module goes out and you need a 5K$ tool to FLASH IT when ANYONE can install the part in 30 minutes but Harley wants 200$ to do 15 minutes worth of work...I think this is against the law by the way..
Even in Europe things are changing, with Harley being considered a status symbol in Eastern Europe and while it still has that status Indian moving production for Europe to Poland in 2019 has started having an effect on sales of HD
The dealer network to me is the biggest hitch Indian has. They have a good product.
Great video Blair. Look no further for an example than the Jeep Wrangler/Ford Bronco situation. Jeep Wrangler owned the 4 x 4, SUV, doors off category for years. And Jeep got lazy. Ford did their homework when they introduced the Bronco and really hit it out of the park. Now Jeep is trying to keep up with Ford Bronco and I am the beneficiary of this battle.
I was going with an Indian but two dealerships had sales people that lacked motivation. I walked into Harley, picked out my bike, and was riding it the next day. Sales guy was the best. The after sale was impressive too. Called me a few times to make sure I was happy.
Yea Right
Give it a few months, you will see those same people when the built in failures of the bike have it in the shop, Harley sucks, and if you need ten mechanical reasons I will be glad to share. My friend is a mechanic there and he rides a Yamaha that should tell you all you need to know
@@donlord794you don’t know nothing man
The Milwaukee 8’s have been great if you treat them right
I agree they need more dealers and I feel if harly would make a light weight more hp liquid cooled street glide or road glide it would be a top seller.
A lot of what you said is a 💯 nail on the head .
Not that you need to hear that because you know what you are talking about.
Good video.
I ride a 2022 HD FXLRS, in my opinion the company's best bike ever along with the ST. It's in a class of it's own and I never considered the S Chief real competition. Companies like Thrashin make sweet after market parts that improve the ride even more. I'm not a bagger guy, but that's where Indian offers serious competition with way more tech right out of the factory for less cost.
This video aged really well lol I just rhode my dyna to the Indian dealership yesterday to test ride a sport chief. Majority of there customers in the last few weeks are Harley people
I get what you’re trying to say but I think you missed the point of the video. All the “influencers” that are on Indians now rode a Harley when they had to buy the bikes. Now that they are free, the switched. Nothing against Indian they really do make some great bikes.
@@throttleblip9854 my bad man, I just finished the second half of the video. I see your point about the two brands kind of pushing each other to build better and better bikes since it is making for a competitive market. I’m just super peeved off with Harley right now and I have had Harley’s Since 18 and I’m 31 now, I have decided not to support them anymore unless some values with the company change and to me and many others it is a shame they are moving large percentage of production jobs to another country, I’m not buying a Harley that was made in Thailand.
With that said, It would be interesting if you made a part 2 of this video in a year or so when the economy hopefully starts picking back up, I’m curious if we will see a lot more Indians on the road and less Harley’s. I know a lot of Harley people are talking about Indian right now.
Im 31 I actually learned to ride on a Buell Blast when I was 17 had till about 20 I bought a sporty next and have been riding Harley ever since I wrench my own bikes. I'll always be a Harley guy I stunt my bikes wheelies burnouts the rumble the sound Iconic peice of American history
🤘🏻😎💯
I was shopping the Sport Chief vs. the Low Rider S. In the end I went Low Rider S because the larger aftermarket, better dealer network, and better trade in value when I (maybe) go to a Touring model.
There's already an aftermarket for Indian motorcycles. Same for Harleys. Except, HD customers HAVE to buy upgrade kits just to make their bike compete with other Japanese and IMC bikes. Lol
What ever happened to the Softtail Classic build. Saw you start it last yeat but never saw it finished. Did you give up?
Polaris should have did this with Victory. Great bikes at a low price point that received no marketing.
Compare the sounds of the Indian scout vs the same priced sportster or nightster….Indian wins
That’s true.
My question to you Harley guys is...
Why is aftermarket such a strong argument, when you're essentially admitting that Harley sells you a bike that requires customizing? Basically what many of you are saying is "Harley makes the better bike...so thats why i swapped out all the parts and put different ones on" 🤔
If its the better bike, wouldn't it need the bare minimum customization to make it ideal for you?
Next question is, why is dealer quantity and location an argument? If the motorcycle was reliable, why would dealer location even be a factor? You're basically saying "when you own a Harley, you're gonna NEED dealers nearby". If service intervals are followed correctly, one could go literal years before even needing any service at all....so why are Harley guys so scared of not having dealers within 20 mins of their house? If one really rides the way he or she claims, then a yearly ride to a dealer 1 hour away shouldn't even be a problem. Harley guys ride farther to get a beer and burger!!
Its a strong plus that companies like Indian and Triumph are doing so well with "limited dealerships and aftermarket". When was the last time you heard someone say "yeah i liked the bike, but I just couldn't customize it as much so i sold it for a Harley" yeah, never.
Not trying to be a jerk, i literally just do not understand what the ruckus over these 2 factors is
I bought a scout and couldn't be happier, when I'm ready I'm getting a chief 🤪
Competition is good for the market. It forces companies to step up. On to your other point, I am a big influence in my small riding group, dear Harley, please send me a bike....or Indian, Yamaha, Kawasaki, Honda, Ducati, Aprilia, BMW, KTM, any of those companies are fine to send me a free bike. 😁😂
I think I could ride that Challenger, make it a real good touring bike putting some serious miles on there.
Harley-Davidson needed Indian motorcycles 100yrs ago. So they could push their innovative ideas into production for the customers. History repeating itself in a good way. Hopefully this pushes Harley-Davidson to break away a little bit from the traditional side of things they been doing the past few decades and bring themselves into a new generation of customers wanting newer technological advancements with a long time brand name.
Bottom line reason why I chose Indian over HD? They're better designed, look better, ride better, you get more for your money. And last but not least, it's not a Harley. I think on my own and my own way. I'm not a CPA, dentist, lawyer etc. who goes out and buys a black Harley, black leather jacket, black boots, black gloves and helmet, a chain for my wallet that jingles so I can leave the office on weekends and pretend to project a fake as sht bad boy persona. Not at all into the "Harley" culture where everyone dresses up the same to play biker. Just look up on social media Harley sites, then look up Indian Motorcycle sites... yea, HD sites you'll find mindless clones with only a few true bikers. Indian Motorcycle sites have real individuals, some motorcycle enthusiasts and some hard core bikers...but no clones. Yes, Harley sold an image that myself and many other bikers and enthusiast are just not into.
After 2 Gold Wings, I wanted a V Twin. This will be my last bike and I can finally get what I want after raising kids. I am not a Harley fan. Shakes too much 😜 After much research I drove an Indian Roadmaster. I was absolutely thrilled. I felt the bike was a better quality build. Sold. Since I bought my Indian there's one more Harley to Indian convert in our group. The IMRG at our dealer is a fun group to ride with. Then I have my regular riding buddies. We are 2 Roadmasters and 2 Harleys. We respect each other's ride. There's still time for a move to Indian.
In Canada - hard to find an Indian dealership. There is one just outside of Montreal but their hours are mon - Friday till5 pm and Sat 12 pm. How stupid is that! A good reason to stay with Harley.
Most people I’ve met that switched to Indian had bad experiences with Harley motorcycles or dealerships. For example they bought a new bike and it turned out to be a lemon and the dealer didn’t do enough to make it right. I like Indian but haven’t been screwed over by Harley enough to visit the Indian dealer. I actually think that if Harley doesn’t find a way to sell bikes cheaper and bring in a younger crowd they might end up shrinking down to a company Indian’s size where the MoCo will survive making bikes for the faithful but a lot of Harley dealers bite the dust.
Spot on for sure. Only thing i would add that Harley has a massive advantage over Indian as well is merchandising in my opinion. You are on a road trip or visiting a different town, you want to stop by a dealership and grab a tshirt or something else. Indians dealerships have nothing compared to Harleys.
Believe only the older crowd visits the dealerships like you describe. Most people, in the circles I ride, love their bikes, not the Motor Company or the choices they’ve made. It’s no longer the American brand we grew up believing.
@@freebehindbars8654
Right. An I hear they’ve gone woke.
Wow...another T shirt.
Big deal.
I agree about the competition! I like both Indains and Harleys, never owned either though lol because I think they're both a bit over priced for what you get
The biggest difference is when someone asks you what kind of bike you have, when you reply "harley davidson" people are like oh wow thats badass. If you say Anything else, people are like "meh". Also no other bikes sound anywhere as good as a harley.
Their prices are outrageous here in Hawaii. "Catering to the rich" is their new motto.
Was just at a dealership looking at a Road King Special and for the hell of it asked my dealer to value my trade in for a '23 low rider S with only 1200 miles. They low balled me at $14,500. Needless to say I walked out lol. I would have gotten Indian if the dealership wasn't like an hour away from me.
Unfortunately HD has had numeous dealers closing. With no new ones popping up to replace them. They are wanting to make there bikes "premium" does that incluse less dealers to make it more exclusive? AFter 2 years with my old 17 M8 low rider I gave up on HD and switched to indian.
I just ordered a 2025 Indian Scout 101. I was looking at Harleys, being a long-time owner but having bought my last Harley in 2011, I was shocked at the new prices. On top of that, local dealers here were adding $3,000.00 to the MSRP of 2024s, in an attempt to move the 2023s and 2022s. No thanks.
Forbidding their dealerships from displaying the American Flag has lost me as a customer and I have had three Harleys!
OH WOW😯!! I had no idea this was a thing with Harley-Davidson. If true, then the small chance I may have returned as a customer in the future has gone from maybe to NEVER!
Where can I read about this? I haven't heard anything yet. You can buy products on HD website with the flag on them so seems odd if true.
Both companies rock but BOTH need affordable Around town bikes.
I WILL SAY: Indian is building better STOCK bikes than Harley right now. Standards & Streetbobs rock but they need better bars and seats like RIGHT off the line!
@@Peter-nm1ps😂
Couldn’t have said it better myself. Just Spot on✅
Oh, I can answer this one.
Now, I do not have either. I have a Suzuki cruiser. But that is because I did not ride for 30 years and when I got back into it I needed to see if it would stick before making a large investment. It stuck, so soon I will trade up.
When you put real money into a bike, if you are me, Harley and Indian are the two iconic names to choose from. It's about tradition and heritage far more than it is about the bikes themselves. But when it is time to do that, what does almost everyone buy? They buy the Harley.
I don't like to do what most people do.
Moving to the south, away from my people as a kid, I LOVED always being the only Eagles fan in a room full of Redskin, and later Panther fans. Who wants to be the guy that goes through life just agreeing with people? That is why, next summer when it is time to trade up, I am going Indian.
This aged like fine wine.
Why am I switching? Harley puts a $18k MSRP on a mid-size cruiser, but when you try to take it out the door that price is magically $25k. Ridiculous...hell, even the $18k price is ridiculous considering how little you get and how much you have to pay AFTER the initial purchase to make it actually rideable
Which Indian are you getting?
I owned a Harley, went to Indian when they first came out. Had the Chieftain, then got the Challenger. Now have a Harley Low Rider S. Bottom Line... I ride what I like. Brand loyalty is lame unless that brand is on your paycheck every two weeks. Every company has issues, every company has benefits.
Yes they are and they deserve it 👏 we love Indian now !! All of us are not coming back !!!
HD refuses to listen to customers solid mounted counter balanced motors NO MORE RUBBER better handling no vibration longer life not that you wont get 150K plus
Funny I just was reading how Polaris motorcycles sales were down . Had an Indian couldn’t give me another lost my ass trying to sell it .
I've been changing bikes every 5-6 years and resale has been the biggest concern for me. That is the #1 reason I have not taken a chance on an Indian. Every time I've asked an Indian owner if they've owned more than 1 and how did they fair on resale or trade, they didn't answer and/or would change the subject. I've been able to re-sell every HD I've owned quickly and for retail book. I've been on a HD for 20 years now.
Great point! I say that all the time too - Harley has by far the best resale value of any bike. Period.
When you pay 25-30% more at the "new" sale than identical model to an indain, yes, your resale will be significantly lower than a HD... the original price was lower...
i'm an old die hard harley guy and i worked for harley in dealers for 40 years and my 2008 FLHR is my last harley my next bike will be either a Honda or Triumph and to me indian is just Harley Bastard step child there is no difference in reality, they are both over priced over sized and under powered motorcycles, i have owned over 100 bikes in my 59 years of riding from top of the line sport bikes to standards and cruisers and touring and nothing is worth what they are asking now, i think i can keep my road king going till i retire from bikes, but corporate HD screw them time to flip the patch again
Triumph owner here I appreciate your comment
Motorcyclists in 2024 rarely do their own wrenching so not breaking in the first place is motive to switch. Even pro-HD highly skilled mechanics like Kevin Baxter
get tons of views re: fixing HDs supposedly premium motorcycle. Flip side is new HD buyers are rich so it's no big deal to buy a new one then replace the whole drivetrain (leaving many good takeouts for used buyers) and if you trade your toy (motorcycles in the US are toys which is fine but bears remembering) every couple of years it will break on the next owner not you.
I ride metric, but still enjoy your vids 👍🏼
Cause Indian motorcycles are sweet. I love Indian motorcycles rule!
Thats a fact because of the New CVO's!!! The Indian Challenger actually force Harley to do better and they did a great job.
No Harley lost all their customers a few years ago actually
I really wish I wasn't from Milwaukee so I could be objective. If I didn't own a harley, it would be a goldwing or a indian nothing else.
I went to the Harley dealer to buy a new bike and the sale asked do I ride I pointed to my GSXR in the parking lot, and he walked away and would not help me. I will never buy a Harley.
The answer is yes
Lets face it, Harley-Davidson owners. Both oldsters and newsters are their own worst enemy. The motorcycle industry as a whole, is in kinda tough shape right now. I'm sure given the history we know of, there are thing on H-D's drawing boards that would be pretty cool and surprising. But, will the buying public accept it. That's why H-D seems to move at a glacial pace when it comes to change.
You nailed it. I just don't feel like as many young people are into motorcycling like they used to be. I'm excited to get my hands on the new CVO. That bike got a lot of upgrades so we will see how people like it. Hopefully those changes trickle down to the non CVO models.
@@throttleblip9854 Thanks for the reply. You just know H-D has had a water cooled twin on the drawing board, if not running running prototypes for more years than we may know. And H-D will be accused of copying the Indian Challenger no doubt. I feel EPA standards have moved H-D's timeline on introducing new products. I hope the 121 VVT engine is a success. Till then I'll continue to ride the only new bike I ever bought, she's a 1987 1/2 FLST-Special. Never had a bad day when I threw a leg over her.
I traded in my road glide for an Indian challenger last year. Best decision I’ve ever made especially now with all the woke crap that’s going on with Harley..
I just can't wait for BMW Motorrad to start giving R18 bikes to top name people for custom builds, to put a little heat on HD and for more riders to find some love and room in their garage for a Boxer twin with Big Jugs. Ambassadors, or Shill, you pick.
And as you move down the rungs, you get to the customer, who gets screwed by Polaris, lights 10K on fire and is back on a Harley........and loving it. FJB, only with Polaris
You will find the same story from customers of all motorcycle makes/manufacturers (usually isolated incidents). What you just described as an Indian Motorcycle customer describes my experience as a Harley-Davidson customer and drove me to Indian motorcycle. The challenge Harley-Davidson has with getting me back as a customer is that the three closest dealerships to me (two in New Mexico and one in Colorado) are the ones that screwed me over. One bad dealership to me is in isolated incident. Three in two different states owned by different people/corporations is systemic in my mind🤷♂. I have been an Indian Motorcycle customer for just over two years now with two Indian bikes and couldn't be happier with the product and the service I have experienced.
@@dysfunctionalveteranese4905 fair enough. This was my third Indian and my fourth Harley. My Indian was great until it wasn’t. The dealer was great until they weren’t. At this point, I can get my M8 into independent shops and repaired coast to coast. I had very little luck orinterest in getting anyone to-work on a Challenger or even my Roadmaster. For me, my Harley is the way to go. Polaris will never see another penny of my money. Did I like the Indians? Yup, you betcha. The company sucks.
@@davidknows3320 I watched your videos on your 2020 Challenger and that sucks you had that experience. I have a 22 Pursuit with just over 12,000 miles and no codes, battery or engine issues to this point---we'll see how she continues😎 I also have a 22 FTR-S I purchased in 21 with just over 10,000 miles and same as the Pursuit, no issues. I spent over $8,000 on one of my Sportsters at service departments at two H-D dealerships in New Mexico between 2012 and 2015 and they royally screwed my bike up. I spent about $6,000 on my Fat Boy at both dealerships with the same results between 2014 and 2020. My clutch cable, which is not an engine issue, electronic or anything like that broke on me in Colorado. I called up the closest Harley dealership for help. They basically told me to go screw myself and best of luck since it was a 2003. THEY DIDN'T even offer me TOW or help finding a Tow service. This was a complete about face to what I had experienced with Harley-Davidson (These were all stellar your part of the FAMILY dealership experiences) starting in Frankfurt, Germany when I was in the Army; Chattahoochee Harley in Columbus, GA; Fayetteville Harley in NC; two dealerships in Kansas; Waco, TX; and Killeen, TX. Like you with Indian Motorcycle (I imagine it was more than one dealership like me with Harley), I will not return to Harley-Davidson for a new bike. If Indian Motorcycle screws me over, than I will get a Honda Goldwing, which was next on my list when we were looking at big touring bikes. Best of luck with your new Harley and KTRSD🤙
Switched to indian. Traded my streetglide for a pursuit.
Old school Harley any day
The thing that keeps the Harley brand alive is the used market. Specifically the Dyna. The rise of the Dyna in the past 10 years has brought so many new riders into the scene. Dudes like unknown Ind. have made the old, boring, lame Dynas, cool. The aftermarket is also amazing for Harley. What other bike, of any type or brand, can you build with all aftermarket? With all that being said, once these Indians start hitting the used market and become more available, Harley will slowly lose that traction. That's ONLY if the aftermarket starts catching up for Indian. As far as new bikes go, it's Indian all day long. Way more bang for your buck. Harley has dropped a few bangers recently but arent near as well rounded as Indian is. Plus, lets look at the future of each company. Harley is supposed to be all electric by 2030. Not saying that's going to happen, but if it does, that's for sure the end of Harley as we know it, especially if Indian keeps going down this path. They are starting to think outside the box and not just trying to copy Harleys playbook like a lot of companies who try to enter the cruiser market. So as it stands, I'd still keep my 01 Dyna over most new bikes coming out, but ask me that in 5-10 years, and I might just own an Indian.
I still think Harley dropped the ball on their new CVO designs. The Challenger is LIGHT YEARS ahead of Harley touring bikes when it comes to performance and tech. I'm still a Harley rider, but only because fit and finish is at the top of my list.
When I bought my last bike, I would have strongly considered an Indian, But the closest dealer is about 100 miles away and I have 3 Harley dealers within 50 miles, the closest being about 25. So that kinda limits your pick. I also would have considered a Triumph, but the same deal there except the Dealers were farther away than the Indian dealers. So if you have problems, you load it on a trailer and all day there and back , then when it is ready it is all day there and back. So I bought a Softail Slim, and love it~!
This mindset, bike broke down and need to trailer to dealer, is an HD owners past experience. Indian owner, bought new in 10/3/20, challenger DH today 5/5/24 65,000 miles bike has never been in a trailer. Oil,tires,brakes. 65,000 miles.
Indian Motorcycles went out of business in 1953. What your talking about is Polarises licensed Indian branded motorcycles.
I never heard of any one of them
Ha Ha
The reason I ride a metric is I could not get a Harley to fit my budget ; couldnt sacrifice.
I'm a regular Joe and I went Indian for bang for my buck and I'm 200% happy....
22 Scout bobber.
Love this bike.
How would you know? You didn’t try both.
When you build a reliable product you don't need all those dealerships!
That’s exactly what I’ve been saying about the competition. We the consumers benefit the most from the competition.
Absolutely. Both in the bikes as well as pricing.
Plus, they're both American V-twin icons.
@@robertemmons2260Indian used to be American not anymore
@@talkingrock7011 Indian is owned by Polaris. Polaris is an American company. What you said makes zero sense.
@@myronmosley2167 Should be called Polaris not injun.
As soon as you said "This is why we need this" I knew exactly where you were going. Excellent point and I'm 100% with you. Competition forces companies to step up.
I have both. To be honest though. I ride my Challenger 95% of the time. The ride quality is better over my Street Glide.
just curious, why the challenger and not the chieftain?
@@emvdhout for me, I wanted something different. Glad I went that direction as I now have 25,000 miles on my Challenger and sold all the rest of my bikes. Best bike I have ever owned.
Victory and Indian are the best thing that ever happened to a Harley enthusiast.
Victory bikes. Especially the High Ball is the best looking bike ever. I miss Victory . Rise up again :-)
My partner and I rented Harleys and rode all the way around Florida including down in the keys and back, a good 1,000 miles over a week. I rode a Street Glide, she rode a Heritage Classic. The bikes rode like farm tractors. Gearboxes were clunky, and finding neutral was annoying. (We've both been riding a long time). When we returned to Canada, we then looked at Harleys and Indians. We ended up both buying an Indian Chieftain Darkhorse each. Better ride comfort, silky gearbox, fabulous styling, lots of torque and speed. Couldn't be happier. Will never buy a Harley.
Love the approach. And I agree that great competition is required in order to keep HD honest. Polaris is the best thing that ever happened to Indian.
I only wished they kept the Victory Line up alive. But they went ALL IN on Indian and I gotta admit they are bringing it. The Harley experience is like gettin arse raped with no grease. Sooooooo, All the Harley nutz that wanna rag on Indian, all I can say is this; Harley has got to do better or die off. Simple.
I've owned both,I liked the Indian but I Loved my Harley it just fit my vibe and moved my soul...One man's humble assessment
Amen dude
I agree. The Indian just doesn’t do it for me.
Yeah bro Indian just will never be it.
I don’t even care if they release a UFO next year.
Same. I wanted to like the idea of riding Indian, but my heart calls for HD.
From what I gather from folks. “Soul” just means you fell for the marketing.
Harley stopped making the Dyna so Indian is taking over the Dyna Bro market.
The average rider does not now who most of these people are.
Cost and dealer markups are what is driving people away from Harley.
In my area you are not riding out on a new Harley for under $20k. Doesn't matter what model it is, after markups they at 20k
I wouldn’t say they are taking over that or any market. But they are trying to get their bikes in front of those crowds for sure.
Harley definitely needs a GOOD bike that riders can leave the dealerships with for 10k. I hope people stop giving money to dealerships that overcharge.
Dyna bros are part of the problem.
Harley can’t keep making the same old fashioned bikes. They need to evolve.
The new m8 softail is better than the dyna. Dyna bros hear “softail” and are upset. It’s not the old softail.
Just throwing on dual shocks/springs doesn’t make it a dyna.
@@TeensierPython You're right they need to but at the same time you don't piss off the people who kept you in business for the past 40 years. I'm a Dyna guy and absolutely don't like anything that Harley has put out since 2018.
@@throttleblip9854 Maybe you should be employed by HD and work for minimum wage. That should get the price down
@@martincvitkovich724Harley workers other than reception and maintenance get paid commission only
Everyone talking about dealer network, here's a little story. In my town (population 1.5 million), there WERE 2 HD dealers. The corporate dealer got the mom n pop dealer shut down. So now, there is only one place in town to take your HD for warranty service. Oh, but the corporate palace wasn't done there. They are now trying to get every dealer within a 3 hour drive of the city shut down, too. Whereas 3 years ago, there was one Indian dealer, now there are 2 dealers selling new Indian bikes, and 3 that will service them. When the time comes for me to buy a new bike, i can guarantee it will not be an HD.
At an overlook on the Blue Ridge Parkway, needed a drink, parked next to an Indian cruiser. Had the tassels and all that. I said, "beautiful bike", and he complimented mine. After about 3 minutes of dialogue talking about our bikes, he said "Switching to Indian from Harley was the best thing I've done in years." And then he proceeds to glow about the Indian as compared to the HD. I think people are switching because Harley is pricing themselves out of the market for new riders, and their older customers are aging out.
I own a Harley Davidson Road King Classic. Love the bike and will have it forever. I have a 2003 Victory V92C. Love that bike too. I have a 2023 Indian pursuit dark horse premium package on order. After riding one i am gonna love that bike too. Great time to be a motorcycle rider!
Indian has been making a great product for the past few years and they are stepping it up. I’m a huge Harley fanatic as everyone knows lol but I’m also a fan of Indian.
They are. I love it. I rode several of the models and not a bad thing to say. Bring that FTR Carbon to SC when you're done with it! haha
Didn’t you also get a free Indian @marvelkid87
Exactly 💯 there is room for both
Spent my life in the industry. Ran a large HD dealership, raced MX in district 18 for years. Was regional Mgr. For Suzuki when the GSX- R came out... competition improves the Breed! Now I'm going to ride my ancient Iron barrel Bullet 500.
Lol I hear ya! I'm looking at old Flat Heads as we speak. The older stuff has been speaking to me lately.
Harley lost me when they killed the Dyna line. When I start my Dyna I know I'm on something special. The way it sounds, vibrates, and how it rides. Harley has completely lost that feeling with these new models. You have to purchase a CVO to get the same benefits and features that you can get on a Indian that cost around $25,000 less. The low rider s would be a great bike if it wasn't priced where it's at. I can get an Indian chief sport for almost the same price and all I gotta do is throw exhaust on it and tune it. The low rider I have to change the bars, the seat, the exhaust etc.. Lots of people have switched over to Indian because right now they are the best bang for the buck with what you get right off the showroom floor.
I think Harley does not offer the most for the buck right now when Indian makes a performance bagger out of the box. Polaris cut their teeth on Victory. The dealer network for Indian is small just like every other motor sports company because they do not need all of the dealers.
Absolute joy ive had with my twin cam dynas but the ride quality of my chieftain compared to my previous m8 road king is night and day due to lack of suspension travel on the hd. Theyre both great brands. I just dont feel great about the m8 reliability vs the thunderstroke. Wether or not its superstition or what.. im just more confident reliability-wise with a polaris product.
A mechanic friend of mine says their ATV's are junk. He hates to work on them.
@@nickb3099 ATVs are like small cars in complexity. I'm a mechanic and have no use for them.
A very objective presentation. Well done. I was HD all the way, now I am hard core Indian since 2016. I say ride what ya like! It's all good! 😊