The (forgotten) Paul - Rudy argument, and why it’s so great.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- There's one argument between Paul and Rudeus from the Mushoku Tensei anime that has been discussed extensively; but everyone seems to forget about another, arguably more important one. So here's some analysis of why it's so great.
Mushoku Tensei Analysis.
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honestly also the thing i love story wise is that they used the second talk with paul to show that rudy really has always been a just very mature child at heart. he has years of experiences but he never knew how to or really got the chance to internalize them before it was too late in his last life and even in this one and i like how they ultimately made rudeus in the moment take the time to realize his own hypocricy while showing how flawed paul still was by his seeing total lack of ability to even begin to understand his son and why he did what he did, instead always taking rudeus' words at face value because he had always seen him as truly the most mature and realist adult at heart ignoring all his childishness when you got to his core.
Before watching my take was that rudeus changed the dynamic of the family, becoming the mature one. Like a friend vs a son, rudeus changed the way he lived his life and saved him by lying to his mother for him saving the maid not his father, but Paul ends up maturing alot more thanks to that, even idolizing his son being upset later on that not even his son could find his family that's still missing making him feel inadequate, even embarrassed that he in the back of his mind thought Rudy would find his wife, and help him fix it. Hearing Rudy had it easy was a lie from Rudy seeing his father looking that way I think the Yeats of worry, then pity from Rudy hurt more than he could bare egging Rudy into beating him because sometimes physical pain eases the mental if you feel like you're being punished by someone more virtuous not knowing his son is actually an old neet
Not the YT algorithm giving me this video right after S2E22 😭
They know
Happy father's day 🥲
Real
Fr
pure evil action :(
Great video but I have to argue Rudy did make it clear that he doesn't know what Paul means and asks him to explain multiple times during their argument in Millis, but Paul never explained and instead continued to mock Rudy until the physical fight, only then the situation had already escalated into violence he finally started explaining.
So imho it's not really the same as in the argument in Buena, where Paul shuts Rudy up and tells him to not make excuses, Rudy does ask for Pauls side of the story and is completely open to hear it, in fact he is confused and wants to know, but Paul doesn't offer any explanations, so Rudy is left without the crucial information, and instead rather accuses and mocks Rudy.
Rudy starts the conversation asking “So…what are you doing here, Father?”
That would have been Pauls first chance at explaining.
Paul doesn't answer and instead questions Rudy “What? You did see my message, right?”
And once Rudy tells him he didn't, that would be another good chance for paul to explain his side, instead he asks
“You mind telling me what you’ve been doing up until now, Rudy?”
“Uh, mostly trying to survive. It’s kind of a long story…” leading to Rudy explaining his travels.
At that point Paul is already spewing vitriol towards Rudy so Rudy asks him to explain himself again
“Why do you keep taking jabs at me like this, then?!”
But Paul again answers the question with a question of his won
“Why?” Once again, Paul spat on the floor in disgust. “That’s what I want to know. Why?”
leading to even more vitriol and accusations towards Rudy which is when he snaps back at him.
Thanks for the comment, it made me reflect quite a bit.
So to start, I believe there's no clear 'good guy' in their second argument. Both Paul and Rudy make conversational missteps that escalate the mutual vitriol. Paul scoffs at Rudeus' early responses, and Rudy gets into 'win the argument at any cost' mode. Both of these are justifiable from each character's perspective. Paul is understandably upset that he has suffered so much to reunite his family while Rudy hasn't spared a single thought toward them. And on the other hand, Rudeus understandably feels like Paul is unfairly judging him for having too much selfish fun on his journey, even though it wasn't just all fun and games.
Now, the question is: which of them is willing to listen to the other's perspective? The indirect answer I present in the video is that Paul listens to Rudeus' perspective, while Rudeus doesn't even consider Paul's. You bring up a valid point that this is only the case because Paul is so assertive about hearing out Rudeus' perspective- he keeps cutting off Rudeus' attempts to find out Paul's story. In other words, Rudeus WANTS to consider Paul's perspective, but he doesn't get the opportunity because Paul keeps pushing to hear Rudy's. I think that's a perfectly fair assertion.
I suppose the way I would frame the argument is the following:
Both Paul and Rudy start off the conversation wanting to know what the other person has done in the many years that have passed since their last meeting. Rudy goes into the conversation thinking that he's going to share fun stories with Paul. But after being surprised by Rudeus' "what letter?" nuke, Paul doesn't care about fun stories at all, and he is now extremely emotionally invested in hearing Rudeus' perspective. He is on the verge of blowing up at Rudeus like he did in their first argument, but he holds himself back because he doesn't want to do it without a solid understanding that Rudeus has done something wrong. So he becomes very assertive, and increasingly vitriolic as Rudeus seems to have no good answers to his questions. Simultaneously, Rudeus is still interested in hearing Paul's perspective, because he wants to understand why Paul seems so upset at him, but he doesn't have the same emotional investment in this as Paul. When Rudeus realises that he has no good answers to Paul's questions, he snaps into 'win the argument at any cost' mode and accuses Paul of cheating on Zenith/Lilia. I think that is Rudeus' mistake- if he had matured, he would not get so defensive and snap into this mode and would remain patient and keep trying to probe for Paul's perspective. I think the light novel summarises Rudeus' mistake very well: "Paul's face twisted bitterly but I wasn't even looking at it. I was too busy enjoying the fact that I'd finally gotten the upper hand.". The problem isn't so much that Rudy snaps at Paul without considering his perspective, but that Rudy snaps at Paul because Rudy is losing the argument- he is unable to answer Paul's questions, and so at that point he completely abandons any attempts to understand Paul's perspective.
@@eliteari I would argue "Rudy snaps at Paul because Rudy is losing the argument" is also kind of a weird way to put it, because it implies that there was an actual argument in the sense of two parties debating something in a rational fashion, but you can't call what Paul did arguing.
What he did was accusing, mocking and insulting Rudy, nothing else. And once Rudy's patience runs out, Rudy tries to get him back, in the exactly the same fashion that Paul treats him, assuming the worst, accusing him of shit that he didn't do and insulting and mocking him. It turns into a shit flinging contest and then a physical fight.
If we would actually treat it as a logical argument "I haven't thought of it" is a perfectly good answer for Rudy.
There was no real reason for Rudy to assume that anyone he knows besides Ghislaine, who more than can take care of herself, was caught up in the mana disaster, so what was in front of his eyes was more important than some strangers that might have been caught up in it.
please continue this debate, is really interesting to read the afterthoughts with the extra perspective of the LN
@@eliteari I ended up siding with Rudy in this argument because Paul was LITERALLY making the same mistakes he made in the first argument. There was an "obvious badguy". It was Paul. He was 300% in the wrong here. Rudy did nothing wrong, if we're actually honest about it. Rudy does a lot of really terrible crap to a lot of people, much of it unwarrented. But, in the rare moments he is right, he is dead right.
Paul is, again, NOT LISTENING TO RUDY. Each step of the converstaion, Paul insults him. Belittles him. Tries to frame the journey as "Rudy just messing around and having fun so he can get with a girl". Paul is STILL NOT LISTENING. Paul is STILL NOT GETTING THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE OTHER PERSON. Paul is merely PRETENDING to do so, because it's on his mind that last time they had an argument, he was made the fool for not doing so. So, in his immature approximation of "trying to listen to the other perspective", is isn't listening. He's listening with intent to confirm his own negative bias. He's listening with intent to find reasons to be angry. He's listening with INTENT TO FIND RUDY IN THE WRONG. Just as it was in the first argument.
Paul has gone from, "shut up, adults are talking and know what's best" to "Okay, I'll listen to what you say, but adults are still talking and know what's best."
There is a reason that Paul receives his "dressing down" and Rudeus never does.
Anyone with two brain cells to rub together, even HEARING Rudeus tell the story, knows that he's "embellishing" quite a lot. It's a Tavern of Adventurers. People who KNOW what the Demon Continent is like. Moreover, these are people who KNOW Paul is depressed, angry, and living at the bottom of an empty liquor bottle. These are people who know where this conversation is going before Rudeus figures it out. These are people that know Rudeus has seen the heavy drinking and how Paul looks. These are people who immediately understand that Rudeus is attempting to "cheer up" his father by not worrying him and is instead feeding him adventures instead of every single hardship he endured, as well as miserable failure.
But, Paul, does not. Paul is AGAIN failing to consider his son's perspective. He isn't ASKING for his son's perspective either. He is asking, "why didn't you save everyone?" and looking for anything that will prove that Rudeus is a terrible person and beneath himself, rather than for what actually happened. Every single question Paul asks is a version of, "Why didn't you save everyone?". It's the same as the first argument. Every question Paul asks in that first argument is, "Why did you hit the boy?". It's the same mistake again. Paul may have become a good father, but he is still an utterly worthless human being incapable of doing more than focusing on himself.
Rudy doesn't tell Paul of all the terrible stuff he had to learn. That he had actually caused the death of other adventurers in his own arrogance. A lesson that taught him actual humility. A lesson that taught him REAL consideration for others. A lesson that taught him TO ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT OTHERS. A lesson that taught him he is not invincible, infallable, or even a good person. A lesson that forced him to confront his own flaws. His own shortcomings. One that made him take the entire journey more seriously.
Rudeus skips telling Paul all the "really terrible stuff". Because, Paul doesn't look like he can handle it. Paul looks at the end of his rope. Struggling very hard.
Yet, here we have Paul. The man who never actually learns the important lessons. Who wants to "one up" Rudeus at every opportunity due to his inadequacy. Who wants to bring HIS OWN SON very low just to bolster his own ego.
This is a man whom has been shown at nearly every interaction with his son, that he is roundly incompetent at practically everything he does. A man whom has been shown at every interaction, that his son is even more mature than him, despite how utterly despicable and immature Rudeus actually is, even as a 39 year old man.
Paul comes into this conversation expecting to hear "Rudeus has saved the day" for him. Once again. Because Paul is wallowing in his own incompetency. This is a man so low he has pinned all his hopes ON AN ELEVEN YEAR OLD CHILD. Paul gets angry that "Rudeus didn't spend his time helping people, but instead used it to get home".
Paul, finally, in his sheer incompetence and immaturity turns to the ONLY WAY he knows to "get an advantage over Rudy". He punches him. Fighting is the only thing Paul has ever had that he's been superior to Rudy in. THE ONLY THING. So, when pushed into the corner... What does he do? Immediately starts swinging. He doesn't explain to his son, "No, I haven't been cheating". He resorts IMMEDIATELY to swinging. This leads me to believe that YES, he HAS BEEN cheating. I've not read the LN where it's ever stated whether Paul was or was not sleeping with any of his hot female party members, but in the anime, it's left VERY ambiguous as to whether or not he is... and his immediate response to the accusation is to punch the accuser? Well, that tells me all I need to know. Rudy hit the nail on the head and Paul is immediately ashamed.
So, they fight.
And Paul realizes in very short order that Rudeus has suddenly gotten more prowess in even COMBAT than he has. Paul has been utterly deflated in that one place he could always beat Rudy, he can't anymore. He no longer has advantages over his son. He no longer has a way to "bring his son low". No more ways to "feel superior". This is where Paul TRULY begins to actually learn and mature. That second fight. Because, now he has to. He can't impart his will over his own son anymore. A son who, at the age of 11, is far better than him at nearly everything. Despite how utterly flawed Rudy even is.
Paul has learned nothing. He continues to make the same mistakes in the second fight as he made in the first. He's just learned to "pretend to listen" better. That's all.
Rudeus, meanwhile, has learned many things. He learned to seek out other perspectives. He learned to be more humble. He learned that he is incredibly fallable and selfish and stupid sometimes. Rudeus has learned to navigate a great many social situations. Rudeus has even learned, through Eris, to have an INSANE amount of patience for others. Rudeus has learned how to "solve problems" better, through Eris. He couldn't directly teach her, so he had to come up with alternate ways to do so. He had to figure out how to MAKE HER WANT to learn. Rudeus had to learn a great deal of Restraint in his time away. A great deal of patience.
But, we also see what happens when you stomp all over his patience. When you continue to press it. We see Rujierd have to stop Rudeus from completely destroying an entire Demon settlement because one Demon threatened to besmirch the name of Rujierd's people. We see what happens when you continue to trample over Rudeus's "good graces" as it were. As if, Rudeus actually has "good graces". Rudeus has patience and prefers to talk things out in a civilized manner. He doesn't even mind when people prove him wrong in most instances. Even in arguments. We see that all over the anime. His arguments only become "win at all costs", when the other person has turned the conversation into "a fight" or even "pure animosity". Which, Paul often does.
Paul has "the need to be right", constantly. Even when he's wrong. Rudeus, when he is wrong, accepts that he is, and tries to learn something from it. He tries to fix himself. Paul, instead, runs, swings fists, or engages in "just sitting there and taking it".
Paul needed his dressing down because he didn't learn the lesson from the first fight. He pretended he learned it, but is so utterly incompetent, that he learned nothing. Learned not a single thing. Continued making the exact same mistake he made the first time. He didn't listen to Rudeus at all. He just asked him questions based on his own assumptions. Rudeus wasn't "saving people" as he "should have been", so Paul wanted to listen for JUST EXAMPLES of Rudeus doing ONLY THAT. Pauls mind was already made up. He wasn't considering anyone else's point of view. Not once. He was PRETENDING to listen, sure, but his intent was just to listen for things that confirmed his own preconceived notion. He didn't hear "Rudeus spent the entire trip trying to get a scared girl home, and trying to repair the reputation of an entire people, or saving beastmen from slavery, or learning how to be an adventurer on a continent where Humans are Despised". He heard, "Rudeus had a good time while he was away, so he must be in the wrong".
Paul is a despicable, flawed, terrible human being. So much so, that he's willing to frame his own son as a villain in his own mind to cover for his own incompetence. Paul isn't "a good parent". He's just one that has managed to endear himself to the daughter he was teleported with. That's all. A Daughter who grew up never knowing any other parent except Paul. One that doesn't even see her own parent's terrible behavior as "terrible" yet. Paul protected her and indoctrinated her through that protection. He didn't "parent" her in the slightest.
Meanwhile, Rudeus basically had to learn to be an ACTUAL parent with Eris. He had to learn to teach her morals. He had to learn to teach her that he was fallable. He had to learn to teach her about the world and how to interact with it and in it. He had to learn how to curb her instincts and get her to focus them on better outlets.
Paul sunk lower as a Father on his journey, and Rudeus had to learn to be better on his.
@@D1i1s1 If you keep poking a bear, and the bear finally snaps back, can you really blame the bear? Again, Paul is supposed to be the adult and failed to be one. He insists that Rudeus traveling through the most dangerous part of the world is some kind of grand vacation when he, as an adventurer, knows that wouldn't be the case. Even adults do not travel to the Demon continent lightly due to how bloody dangerous it is. Being drunk makes Paul's mistake understandable, but something understandable does not make it justifiable. Expecting his kid to be looking for survivors when he's spending all his time trying to survive himself and look after Eris is beyond unreasonable. In a world where sending a letter can take years to get delivered, if it gets delivered at all, is not a situation in which you can reliably expect someone to somehow see some random message on a bulletin board a continent away.
The fight goes on a little further to where Rudy finishes that sarcastic line with by the time he left home he would throw away the Greyrat name and they would never see him again and that got Paul to think about the fight he had with his own father
Paul was at a severe disadvantage in this first argument was expecting Rudy to respond like a child not with the maturity of an adult.
The analysis of the first argument is decent, but the second one is pretty terrible.
Rudy quite obviously is telling a sanitised version of his experience to not worry his father. Here is literally what happened. Paul an adult experienced adventurer got teleported to another place within the same continent and was quite quickly able to get back home. Also because he was in the same continent and far from the point of origin was aware that a lot of people got teleported. Meanwhile Rudy a child with no adventuring experience got teleported to the opposite side of the world on an entirely different continent filled with hostile species. He was also at ground zero and as far as he can believe it only got them or maybe the city in it's influence. Also since he was teleported the farthest he is the one with the least chance to find out how large the event was.
You are reading argument.1 and 2 as mirrors where in argument 2 it is flipped and now Rudy needs to learn to listen. However it's not a mirror. It's an expansion of argument 1. Paul has improved slightly from argument 1 in that he is letting Rudy speak. However he hasn't learned to also listen and try to understand. He is only looking to judge Rudy right off the bat. Rudy with reason believes Paul might be cheating again. He was a scumbag for his entire life at least until Rudy last saw him and he is surrounded by scantily clad hot women again. It's not an unreasonable assumption. Then Paul once again responds with violence. Another point against Paul. Then finally Rudy responds with violence. Not great, but also kind of deserved.
In the end both arguments are mostly about Paul's issues and also the issues the two have communicating with each other in general.
You missed a few beats on this analysis, I think
1- Rudy told his stories in a cheerful manner not to worry Paul. He was being considerate about the father he hasn't seen in years.
2- it's not that Rudy not listening means he hasn't matured at all, rather, it's a reflection of all the prejudices Rudy and Paul have against each other.
-Rudy had to not only watch Paul cheat on his mother with Lilia, but also had to do some real mental gymnastics to convince Zenith not to kick Lilia out. He fixed the family that Paul broke. Also, mind you, Paul's much to blame too for the way Rudy acts towards women, not only his past life. He is unreliable, unserious, a manwhore and overall kind of a dick to Rudy that often takes out on the boy physically when he feels frustrated with him. Heck he sent the boy away for 5 years by knocking him out like a beast.
-And in Paul's eyes, Rudy's kind in this pedestal. He's a genius, he always knows what to do or say, much better than him. He feels emasculated in a sense. Because he learns more with Rudy tham Rudy with him. So he'd never consider that that holy kid who can think several steps ahead and do magic like no one can can just sit back and just be a kid, or not consider that his family was in danger too. That that kid had to believe his family was alright to justify going through hell and back in hopes of seeing them again.
This cognitive dissociation in both failing to recognize aspects of each other is the core of this fight. Rudy thinks Paul's a fuck up and Paul thinks Rudy's a genius who doesn't give a shit.
I mean- the dad is a fuck up. The brain cells on dat man is insane, too much stats put into strength
Wow damn this is a very comprehensive comment, and one I fully agree with. I see it like this as well
Wow that’s really brilliant and insightful, I like how you relate it rlly nicely
Agreed.
Just to add some more contrast:
-Paul and Norn were teleported relatively close to home. Buena Village being in the same continent and as his adventuring days could easily find his way back. Not to mention he had resources and connection right away.
-For Rudy situation: they ended up in unknown territories in the demon continent and no resources. Not to mention different currency, culture, and language. He basically started from zero. Luckily ran into Ruijerd but not really a bonus (Because of Superd Tribe history).
-From my POV:
I disagree with Rudy not maturing point. He actually grew and learned thru his travel and actually was a repeat from the first argument. It was actually worse because he listen but wasn't accepting it. as you mention the reflection of Rudy and Paul have against each other.
-Geese highlights how Paul is wrong. Rudy is just a kid and what was he doing at that age of 11. He also explains the contrast on the difference in Central and Demon Continent.
Just to quote him.
"His first time on an unknown land. His first time on an adventure. Besides, he has to pay attention to that Superd who might change his mind at any time, and there's a girl right behind him whom he has to protect. No matter how much of a genius Rudeus is, everyone has their limits. What's more, he's still just a kid." and at the end repeats something similar Rudy said "I'd cut all ties if I were him."
The most eye opening dialogue is:
Paul: Well, Geese?! Am I wrong?!
Geese: Yeah, you are. You're always getting it wrong.
-Being former party member highlights how he always misses the mark about how he thinks(Highlights your 2nd point of Paul).
-It shows that Paul still has a lot to learn.
@@superplusextra9634this was insightful too, I'm learning and discovering quite a lot of hidden translations from S1, makes me appreciate S1 even more.
i think there is no father out there who doesnt feel inadequate their first time and is shown in such a realistic and painfull way with paul, character writing at its best, like you did this video about their first argument i honestly think you can analize every single interaction between Rudeus and Paul from the entire story and get interesting lessons, thats how good it is
I think there are definitely some lol. But I think its a quality of a good father to feel inadequate. It shows the want to improve and review on past actions. Mushoku tensei is so clever with how it portrays fatherhood, especially in later parts the anime has yet to cover, and has some genuinly good lessons
yea. but his still a crap dad. if u look at it from Pauls view from what it is his grown man who should not blow up/hit on their kid. Everything R said are things his father is know for. so, maybe the thing to learn is that being a dad is hard but onces actions are who you choose to be seen as so better ur self .....
Spirit
@@2caguzmanIt's worth noting my dad is a pretty awful husband, father, and all around person, so I'm far from an unbiased perspective.
However, it's hard for me to agree that Paul is a bad father. At the least, he does have his family's best interest in mind, and he does truly care for them. He also makes a great decision sending Rudeus's away to a branch of the family, an experience that helps Rudeus grow, and gets him out of the mindset of "settling" that he had.
I'm not about to argue Paul is an amazing father or anything, but I will say I cannot agree he is an outright bad one.
There usually are some fucked power dynamics between parents and their children, specially for failures who believe they dont have control over their lives and take it out on those who cannot fight back.
The simple yet grounded "conflicts" in the beginning of the show is what made me realized that this anime will be amazing.
Yeah...like for example...the beginning of episode 4.
@@azumag4432 World ending threat ❌
Ntr threat ✅
Yea, but it went downhill from there
@@alexthevi-th2578nah it went up, go watch some slice of life where nothin bad happens or smt
The sexual assault against minors by an adult (in a kids body) is very off-putting.
i understand rudy not even thinking anyone else would have been teleported for a long while, they havent encountered anyone mentioning it outright, hes a child even if hes not he really is, and they were at the literal epicenter, i would assume it was a small range too if i was in the middle of it.
Besides busy staying alive?
He was also near the center of the incident so he didn’t know the actual scale of it. He thought it was just everyone in the field but actually it was everyone in Fittoa
Also like he got teleported, he didn't think his family got separated, maybe that's why he asked abt Sylphy
Ghislaine was caught up in it though
@@deplorible753 she was also at the epicenter,
I think one of the things people don't think about when talking about this aswell is that rudy and eris was at the epicenter of the teleportation event, so it was pretty much impossible for them to know the true scope of what had happened.
You know what's interesting is that in the LN Eris had considered the possible scope long before Rudeus.
@@NathanaelCrapo yeah, Rudeus was busy after all, taking care of Eris and taking leadership because Eris and even Ruijerd were mostly dumbfucks
@@NathanaelCrapoYup however just like Paul she mistakenly believes Rudy is nearly omnipotent and never says anything. It takes this situation to make both of them realize that Rudy is not perfect. Eris also learns this lesson again when they fight Orsted realizing that Rudy can both be wrong and that he can be defeated. However it would be unfair to exclude the fact that this realization of Rudy's mortality actually raises her opinion of him much higher yes she realizes that Rudy can be killed but she also realizes that Rudy was capable of harming the Dragon God so she does humanize his mind but does still over estimate his combat prowess.
The dynamics of this show constantly amaze me. The author has thought a lot of things out - or been extremely unconsciously aware of special dynamics like this. It's so ... human. And I love it.
And I think we are seeing some of the effects of the second fight now in the "Mage University" portion of the story where Rudeus seems very withdrawn and slow to respond to fights. He's no longer going into "win argument at all cost" mode like he used to do.
Your avatar is pure dopamine. Obligatory like.
Personally it feels like your giving Paul far to much credit in the second argument. Paul during this entire situation was not sober thanks to his drinking problem. Rudy asked for his father's side of the story multiple times during the conversation but was rebuffed each time by Paul asking his own questions. Not only that he made the situation worse by belittling and mocking Rudy's entire journey he has gone through all the while never even waiting to hear how the story came to an end. On why Rudy would not have known about the letter or even the situation at hand. It takes a long time in this world for information to be passed along, more so across continents not to mention the demon continent which is the most difficult of all.
As for Paul he was in such a low depressed state all he could do was pin his hopes was on his child, a little boy still in the eyes of most everybody despite his many talents. In the letter he didn't even bother looking for him as he fully expected him to be able to survive more so then his own wife who was a previous A ranked adventurer. When those hopes were dashed he acted out of sheer anger and self loathing. Instead of being happy to seeing his only son alive, the first member of his precious family he has come across in years. This was the path he chose to take, which could have very easily destroyed any possible relationship going further with his son.
Damn you're right , also I'm pretty sure that zenith was a S ranked adventurer but I think you're more right than me .
It's a good thing Geese later on pointed out those things to Paul. Geese was an MVP on that episode and I never thought I'd have a lot of respect for that guy.
@@neriovelasquez8633 na she was said to be around a rank
Yo this! I whole heartedly agree. But the video did make his distress and depression understandable. Def wish these facts were added.
I also think this happened because of how inferior Paul feel in comparison to Rudy. But Paul didn't have that feeling with his wife. Paul feelings make him forget that his son is still his son, a "kid", happy see his father and proud to tell him of his hard yet lively journey.
I kinda wish that part in the show was talked about a bit more but I guess men don't talk like that.
I think both didn’t bother to look into each other’s side as Rudy assumed Paul was still the philanderer he was before the teleportation incident, something Paul regretted deeply and has now made great efforts to be a good father, while Paul was viewing Rudy as the prodigy son, who could, according to ghislaine, could beat her if he was in an advantageous scenario, and not of a child being teleported into an unknown and dangerous location
Maybe it's just me, but I thought Rudy was trying to make light of his trek through the wilds because he didn't want to put ANOTHER worry on his father's shoulders. He didn't want to worry someone who was obviously carrying so many worries already.
Honestly, Paul pissed me off quite a bit. Maybe b/c of his infidelity when he already had a wonderful wife earlier in the story, and I never got over it. Came to like him after Millis, but before that, he annoyed me. Of course, if you as a son see your father being unfaithful to your mother through your youth, you'd naturally assume the worst when you see him strung out and drunk and surrounded by hot women without his wife anywhere around. Asking a character to forget the evidence of his own damn eyes is an unreasonable request, but that's just my opinion.
in the world of mushoku tensei monogamy pretty much is only followed by the milis church which zenith is a follower of whereas Paul isn't.
spoiler but not major (it might be covered in season 2 but it also might not)
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Paul marries Lilia but when they go to see zeniths family Aisha is looked down upon by zeniths family and is treated like an illegitimate child.
@@heldscissors4132 Spoilers:
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This will most likely be explored in season 2 because it's the cornerstone of Norn Aisha relationship. Ah~ How I wish for Season 2 to come soon because Norn's story is so relatable!
@@ahmadmanga potential spoilers:
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Yeah I'm thinking it will be covered but it also might not be noting the amount of small stuff skipped in season 1 (think Eris's mother telling eris to go sleep with Rudy in TP1 or gease telling eris he can't show her how to cook because it's one of his jinx's). Though since the small things in season 1 weren't too important compared to Aisha being treated differently it might still make it in the anime.
@@heldscissors4132 we might not see the details, but the emotional impact of it is too strong to not allude to it in the story at least.
@@ahmadmangaseason 2 coming soon! Also enough that it’ll definitely be mentioned
This video has terrible, terrible timing. Happy father's day, Paul.
💀
This is why I stuck with "Mushoku Tensei". Because it was that first fight that signaled to me that this was no ordinary fantasy. It would be (pardon the overused term) grounded in character, driven by individual action and thought, and earn its consequences.
Ikr like with all these anime/manga/web novel having flashy fights showcasing how op the characters are, it just hits different to have quarrels like they had
Are there any other shows similar to this one ?
@@lonelyspud4445The author is friends with the author of Re:Zero
wow a youtube comment concerned about originality that's horribly rare
I think everyone gives Rudeus too much credit in the series. Everyone refers to him as a 30 year old man but he became a shut in as a teenager and that's when he stopped maturing. he may be 30+ years old physically when he dies but he was still a frightened bullied teen mentally that shut himself off from the world and never mentally matured until he became rudeus and even then it took a while. I think he is mentally on par with Eris and Sylphie and behind Roxy he just has more life experiences to draw from but he is not more mature than them or Paul
If anything, I think that gives them more credit.
Wrong
he's definetely not on par with eris or sylphie, he's way above them he literally took eris from a spoiled brat to someone that can actually function as a normal human and express themselves, and sylphie's just normal.
@@its9301 I call him Rudeus but i'm really referring to his original self that died...after being reborn he had his memories but still lacked any real maturity...a man/child...Paul for all his faults, Zenith Rujerd Sylphie Roxy they all helped him mature into a Stable Mature Man that he wasn't in his original life and Sylphie is very mild mannered but Rudy still manages to get himself banished from the bedroom from time to time She's the wife he fears the most....for that very reason :)
@@its9301well keep in mind og commenter probably talks about how Rudeus actually grows as time goes on mentally.
His maturity was stunted in his first life due to his lifestyle, but not in the 2nd life. That does mean he got to grow there too, thats why he is more mature than most, because he is now, but that doesnt mean he is anywhere near mature enough at that point either
Thats wrong, rewatch it again and you'll see that paul fell into the same thing he did to his son and still missed the entire point of the conversation until geese puts the perspective of reality that rudy went through, you see that Rudy's dad didnt want to hear it and kept accusing him of just screwing around without understanding what happened around.
As an anime only (and a casual one at that) I appreciate you taking apart what makes these two scenes work. I remember finding the first argument a little annoying and not cathartic at all, it felt like another one of those oppotunities for the MC isekai protag to show how smart he is (which imo would only be cathartic those younger in the audience). However, with the linking of these two scenes it makes the previous one a lot better because it makes it more apparent to my the Rudy's smug demonore is just as much of a character flaw as it is a way to make him more likeable. So., thank you for illuminating that to me!
I think this is a good example of how I found s2 of the anime really redeem and allowed me to be a lot less cynical about why the author is writing in the way they are. Looking forward to talking with you about the next season as the anime is airing!
TH-cam algorithm gone wild here, they know what they are doing 😭
See no matter how many times I see the millis argument I still can’t truly decide Rudy was in the wrong or even think Paul is slightly justified. As a adventure paul has heard the stories of demon continent, he’ll one of his teammates was from there and the stories he must have heard should have preped him to expect his sons death when he heard that that was were he was teleported but instead he belittles Rudy who as a kinda telling a story to his father in a manner similar to how he had done in a attempt to lift his spirits and show that not all is lost and to bring hope. And to be fair to Rudy here he literally had to step in and save his fathers marriage because he cheated and got another woman pregnant. And to top it off when you look at the fact that regardless of how smart you think your son is getting transported to another continent and a very dangerous one in which you can’t read the language to begin with you expect him to just some how make it to a town and find the notice board be able to read the language and then fin a way to look for people as well as make his way back? Like seriously what did Paul expect from him? No matter how you look at this you have to remember everyone around Rudy thinks he is still a child they don’t know he is a reincarnated 39 year old so that means Paul expect this out of a literal child.
That's what happened right after the Millis Argument if you remember. When Paul is reminded that his genius son, while a genius, is still a child, and that managing to survive on the demon Continent is no small feat, even With Ruijerd by his side. Paul expected too much of Rudeus, but Rudeus also didn't understand Pauls efforts and circumstances, so he isn't without blame.
Also, when did Rudeus save Pauls marriage? If anything he diverted blame away from Lillia on Paul to save Lillias and her babies life, Zenith was kind enough to forgive Paul and accept Lillia as part of the family, so maybe one can give Rudeus credit for that.
@TheRealJohnux it did save the marriage, u talk as if Paul was a victim there
If not for rudeus
Paul zenith lillia rudeus and the two sisters would have separated
Destroying the family and friend relationship
@@blu3d3vil97Rudeus didn't save the marriage, he saved Lillia. If anything Rudeus made the marriage worse by intentionally portraying Paul in a poor light and downplaying Lillia's responsibility in the matter.
@BeyondTrash-xe1vs buddy...
In what world is paul not at fault(not the only one but the biggest) and why would u think there was gonna by a marriage left
Takes some real delusions to think the marriage was gonna continue without rudy(the beloved son of zenith that she thinks of as only an innocent child) convincing them to remain united
Or maybe u just think women are just so dumb as to allow an idiot to cheat in their very house then say "nah nothing wrong, we continue as is"
@@BeyondTrash-xe1vs It's pretty copium to think that Rudeus made the marriage worse when the cheating was already a huge mistake worth ruining it on it's own
Paul really is getting too much credit for getting mad at Rudy for the second argument. Here is your SON, apparently safe and sound, yet teleported to the most dangerous place you can think of, and your first thought is "Okay, well why didn't you do even better?", not "My amazing son miraculously survived the most dangerous part of this world, where even I'd die, easily, and thankfully made it back". Hell, he EXPECTED everyone to be dead, so how the hell he got to being mad is ridiculous. Rudy could have said he was safe that entire trip and it shouldn't have mattered. Rudy wasn't an adventurer till this point, so I don't know how he'd know about any message, and Paul didn't think for a second that maybe he left before the message even got spread over there, because we literally see Roxy being the one to spread that message right as they're getting ready to leave and them missing each other at every point, literally proving how easy it is to do this without a form of actual communication with anyone like we have in this day and age.
That on top of past behaviors and his current scantily clad company, and I don't know how the hell Rudy was supposed to know he wasn't sleeping with women, whereas Paul, as even said in this video, knew Rudy was more mature than he knew what to do with, so it was ridiculous to assume he'd just bullied kids. Even in the second argument, Paul isn't exactly being mature, cause it's not about just hearing the other side, especially when you're apparently not actually listening (Cause again, your son just came back from basically certain death. He heard none of that, even with Rudy sugarcoating it). He had to hear it from a whole third party who said that if Rudy did find the time to do everything Paul expected, he'd be in the seven powers at 11......
I like how Paul is written. I can understand his frustration with Rudeus, in a depressed and desperate point of view. Paul first of all thinks so highly of Rudeus. So After seeing Rudy again he was please and had hope, yet because he saw that Rudy was alive and well he had expectations that his son who he thinks so highly of would have been the one to reunite them all again. However after hearing Rudy's story frustration would have been the first thing he felt, because he was making an effort to reunite them and facing all kinds of hardships, depression, and desperation. Rudy would be having a great time(which he doesn't) but when you're in that state you would develop tunnel vision and everytime you see or hear someone who should have been your hope to help, would be in more ideal situations that yourself. Paul corrects himself after, and made amends with Rudy. Which is why Paul is such a well written character and their interactions are always good
@@chael9323 it can be a bit understandable to be pissed about him not even trying to send a letter since he was in multiple cities even while in the demon continent, and I assume they must have some kind of bird or magic beast that sends letters (even if they aren't super reliable), after all that's like vanishing for years without calling your parents. Also neither of them knew how much the other knew about the scale of the mana disaster, Rudeus tought it was a small scale thing since he was close to the center and Paul assumed Rudeus would know it was big since he should've been in the city and see it all be consumed, I think they never adress this.
In the end both are flawed, Paul should've been better and more mature but he was never that mature and a drunk and depressed dude that had lost almost all hope can be damn unpredictable, and Rudeus was dense not reading the mood in the room or noticing the abscence of the rest of his family sooner, he kida still tought he was the center of the world as he says so himself, he was taking it all kind of as a game.
@@chael9323 Indeed.
Yeah know dude was a dick and not great character in my opinion. Just mad me annoyed when he was on screen or dealt with.
Paul didn't really know how bad Rudeus's situation was though - he has never personally experienced the demon continent and Rudy's lighthearted retelling of his story only reinforced the "it can't be as bad as rumours say" mindset he probably had since he was an active adventurer. And I can't really blame Paul for taking refuge in the bottle, considering how bad things were for him the entire time and that, by that time, he was slowly losing all hope of finding his family or even knowing what happened to them. I won't repeat the same stuff about how he viewed Rudeus's intellect and competence, people said it a million times, but it also reinforces in his mind the idea that Rudeus should've been able to do more.
Naw, disagree that Rudius is the one at fault in the argument in Millishion. They BOTH are working on false assumptions. Neither is in a position to see the other's viewpoint. Paul, because he can't imagine Rudy making it all the way to Millishion never having seen Paul's notice, and Rudy never really considering that anyone aside from himself, Eris and maybe Ghislaine of having been teleported. It's a lack of imagination on both their parts, not on one or the other.
Rudius HAS matured. The minute he hears that his group wasn't the only people teleported, he realizes he was in the wrong. He realizes that, yes, he was having fun while other people were suffering. He realizes that he could have done something to help had he just thought about the teleportation disaster. (He saw the light engulf Roa before it engulfed him.) Rudius's depression after wasn't just that he was rejected by his father, but that his father was right to reject him. As a shut in, he never accepted that anyone else might be in the right. He's still immature. He didn't go back to apologize. In fact, he had decided to run away before his father came to him the next day, but in accepting his own culpability, he has taken a step forward from his previous attitudes. He isn't there yet. He still has a long way to go as a character, but not changed?! Are you and I watching the same show?
Rudeus may have realised his mistake yes, but he never actually takes any action to correct it. He doesn't even go looking for his mother when he comes home, he goes to the magic university for another 2 years. Realising your mistakes isn't enough to absolve you of them.
@@titaniumgamer_10 What are you talking about? Did you even see the first five episodes of Season 2? He spent two years looking for his mother in the northern territories just like Paul had asked him to! He had to first carry out his promise to get Eris to the Fittoa region first like he promised her(and good thing he did since he found Lilia and Aisha along the way), but after his fit of depression in the refugee camp, he went north to search for Zenith.
His plan was to spread his name and hopefully Zenith would hear it and come find him, so he joined as many parties as possible, always asking them to spread his name and let him know if they heard anything about his mother.
He only went to the magic university when he had turned 15, after Elinalise came, found him, and told him that Roxy now knew the city where Zenith was. And that Roxy had had left for Millishion to tell Paul and help Paul and crew go find her.
@@kaguya6900 Yes, and when he found out about that, he instead decided to go to the magic academy instead of helping his mother. I know the man god told him to do that, but if he truly cared about his mother he would have ignored his advice and went to save her anyway.
@@titaniumgamer_10 So two full years of searching doesn't count for anything for you? Okay, I see where you're coming from, and I don't see any reason to argue with you further.
Wow…. this is profound. I hadn’t seen all the connections there before. Even more reason to love and praise this near-perfect series
Truee lets goo. and now we're blessed with season 3
Nice, after Paul's death. Thanks YT algo
I understand that Paul didn't make the best decisions but I sympathize with him. He went through a lot, he holds his son in such a high regard and considering the circumstances that he saw Rudy in. So carefree and honestly just being a degenerate. I understand why Paul was so mad. Rudy did his part to try and communicate and understand but Paul just went through so much before that point that he didn't even want to listen. It's honestly another humanizing moment and they way that the character dynamics are handled is why I love this series so much.
rip my goat.
And then they released S2E22 on father's day 😭
me watching this on father's day because of the algo
Paul is like the very definition of "every asian parent ever existed"
happy late fathers day paul, you were not the best father but you were the best father
I actually think Paul cutting rudy off just to berate him for not trying to look for everyone was major projection.
He knows that Rudy as a genius could have done more than he had and so he lays into his kid he should be thanking the gods is alive.
Rudy's mistake was still treating his dad like the simple adventurer father he remembered who told him fantastical bed time stories and not telling him the difficulg truth of just how many times they would have died if it wasn't for Rujjierd.
Rudy earned that punch for once again not using his observational skills and adjusting his language appropriately.
Paul had no right to take out his failures Rudy who has been so preoccupied with getting back home he never once considered checking the board because the teleportation disaster didnt give him many other humans to interact and its not like he was trained to go check those messaging boards. The demons don't use the same language. His only opportunity was taken when he was kidnapped.
Rudy was overjoyed at seeing his father that thinking he wasnt alone anymore. add to that he is a child, and around people he should trust he let his guard all the way done, carefully editing the story to not worry his father, whom he missed dearly, and missed facts. he did not deserve the punch. paul was so far down the rabbit hole of self loathing and idolazation of rudy that he forgot he was still just a child that was forced out into a world he wasnt ready for and wanted so desperatly for rudy to of found something that again coming up with a blank lead him to lashing out.
@@damienmitchell3104 I would agree with you only if Rudy didn't already receive a punch for treating Paul like his old life's Japanese father. He learned once that Paul was too immature and sought the validation of other humans over the love of his son so editing his story and treating Paul like he would have berated his son for doing something dangerous was a very arrogant decision and rightfully deserved to be punished.
Was that correct of Paul to do?!
Of course not but Rudy isn't a normal child. He's not even a true reincarnation. Maintaining memories in a new body imprinting on a new brain with the amount of information an adult has is trying to compress a super computer's data into a brand new laptop.
Rudy should be brain dead, maybe have a mutation? Or at least neurodivergent in order for his brain to process both observation and comparison to his previous existence.
This underlying fact about Rudy's unexplainable presence in this world makes everyone give him too much credit that he doesn't even give himself.
@@L3onkingWhile yes both sides were eventually in the wrong, it was mostly paul's fault.
Expecting rudy to magically get that paul was in an unstable state is already projecting an ideal genius into rudeus, he was a shut in in his past life and just a child on this one, obviously he didn't had any godly perception skills and was just happy to finally being able to see his family again.
While rudy did downplay what he went through just not to worry his father, it was paul who after listening to him downplayed even more all the effort he put and made it look like he was just playing around. And all of that was *after* rudeus tried to explain himself, while paul didn't try to explain his side even once cause "rudeus is a genius he should understand", obviously rudeus would get mad and throw a comeback after getting all his efforts downplayed like that, and given no chance to understand paul's side he just went with the first insult he could think, mostly cause of paul's past mistakes.
Rudeus is no genius, he is only human and that is a point even the viewers have a hard time understanding, and without spoiling anything I can say that is a mayor plot point for the entirety of the series
Forgetable?? Bruh.. for me this is one of the most memorable scene for me.. this is when i realize Paul is not perfect and felt real like an actual person with flawed, and man the moment Rudeus start spitting out fact is pure beautiful. And i think "damn...he was right" it's showing that our protagonist even scummy at the beginning he's still got some good life lessons from being a NEET for almost 40 years. And it's help Paul growth as better persob & dad too. Truly beautiful. I ain't gonna forget this sh*t
There's something that I need to outline because it wasn't in the video but should've been.
Paul had no reason to not believe in Rudy as he, at that time, was a model child that never did a thing to make his father believe he couldn't be trusted, as mentioned by Rudeus.
On the other hand, Rudy had all the reasons in the world to think his father slept with his companions as it is very much in character for him to do so, far as Rudy knows.
So where I think Rudy shouldn't have berated his father without inquiring further than just presumptions, there were precedents supporting his beliefs.
Seeing this now makes me cry, I knew he was gonna die but still bro
Here for Father’s Day 😢
I agree with most point including the point around the first argument, however, the fact that you put Rudeus in the total wrong is absurd.
First, Rudeus talking so lightly and enthusiastically about his journey was to put his father, who looked so distressed and whom he hadn't met for years, at ease.
Second, Paul argued why Rudeus didn't look for their family, and Rudeus looked surprised and puzzled, because: he probably didn't realize at that time, his whole hometown was affected by the teleportation event; also, despite his 39 years of previous life, he used to be in a traumatized state that he stopped going outside, the fact that he opposed Paul in the first argument had shown his attempt to be better, and even with experience in the previous life, he was then teleported to the demon continent where he know nothing and might encounter numerous dangers, while looking out for Eris.
Lastly, Rudeus accused Paul for playing around with women was not without thought, Paul was a lecherous man, even more so before he married. Then, after the teleportation, he showed up looking like a distressed alcoholic bastard, who would not believed if he seeked out for women body if you know he used to be a horn.-y dog.
You're not wrong when saying Paul was not in the wrong during the reunion, but you're wrong when assuming that Rudeus was in total wrong. They both didn't try to see each other's standpoint, they both thought they'd done right and no wrong, no one wanted to back down, thus the heartbroken useless argument.
I was about to say, Paul was too harsh on rudeus. He was still young, in a dangerous land looking out for someone important to him. His first priority was to get to safety, not play the main character and save people who matter little to him. Furthermore as you said, rudeus had no idea how far the disaster reached. Paul had a hard time, but was ultimately leading a team in safe, secure Millis. Rudeus was completing a treacherous journey that took many years to complete, doing his best to help people while also surviving on next to nothing and protecting Eris
I don't think that Rudy hadn't matured, he just had so much on his mind, he did mature, but didn't really have the time or opportunity to be able to internalise change, he had to remain who he was so he could survive his trip through the Demon continent.
Rudy's trek was far more harrowing than that of Paul, while Paul became depressed he at least was able to stablish a home base from which he at least had a measure of safety, Rudy didn't just have to travel through a harsh environment where he could have died at any point, he had to do that while caring and looking out for Eris and to some extent Ruijerd, he had to be the foundation of their group he had to be the unchanging one that held everyone together, the only thing that held Rudy together was the idea of getting back home to his family, Rudy was at the epicentre of the Teleportation disaster so he had no idea of the scale of things, the one thing he knew for sure was that he had to get back, he never received the news of the extent of the disaster, not because he didn't care but because it just never crossed his mind.
If anything the fact that Rudy was still able to be cheerful after all that he went through was a testament to how strong of a person he was, not perfect but incredibly resilient, the fact that the hardship he underwent didn't change him was a blessing, just like how Paul's friend told him, would he have preferred that Rudy came back broken or injured, Rudy may not have noticed the tension on the room, but the fact that Paul didn't immediately start talking to Rudy about what happened in the time he was gone was a major mistake from Paul.
Rudy can't possibly know everything, and Paul overestimated Rudy's knowledge of things, then basically berated him for surviving intact, implying that he must have had fun, Paul didn't even consider how hard it must have been for Rudy to be in a land where he doesn't speak the language of, where he has no family, and where he was now in charge of someone else's life, just as difficult as things were for Paul it was the same for Rudy, many times Rudy could have died, it was not an easy trek and Paul as a former adventurer should have known that the Demon Continent was no joke, but he was so deep into his despair and alcoholism that he didn't try to understand what Rudy was saying, and Rudy didn't feel like being kind after being berated, anyone would feel defensive and seek to punch back when we are berated for no reason.
watched this just before the father's day episode. Rip. Paul. You shall be missed.
Rest in peace Paul Greyrat
You don't have to spoil that for other people just because you watched it today.
@@ninjamatic5000 rest in peace Rudy's daughter
@@ninjamatic5000 agreed
"This moment creates the character of Paul who until this point was a carboard stand in in the world"
Great observation! I had never thought about it up until you pointed it out even though its pretty easy to remember this point as the start of his character arc.
this was for me the best moment in the show just hit close to home for me is all
This is the moment when I fell in love with Paul as a character. He reminds me of my father and myself, and none of us are perfect, but god does Paul tries. Paul made some heavy mistakes, but he tries, he really did try, and the fact that a 40 years old like Rudy acknowledged him as a father, as HIS father... I feel like his story is one of the perspectives that all fathers and prospective fathers should learn from.
Oh wow this is very special video on Lilias Lord (paulo greyrat) from Mushoku Tensei: Isekai Ittara Honki Dasu, el eatary.
I like this fight because it acts as a precursor towards the later "big" argument. Looking back at the first argument and the future one really puts things into perspective. Paul forgot his agreement to always hear Rudeus out, and out of his pride and his own beliefs ended up hurting him. Rudeus felt the same way for not hearing out Paul and instead beating him over a misconception, switching their places from the first argument. They both made mistakes and that lead them to both feel damned😔
Paul really gets talked down to by his own son and the crazy part is his son is right
I never saw rudeus trying to become the wiser parent to his own parents. I never realized that he was much older than his own parents
Every part of Mushoku Tensei is great. Every second of the story plays into the rest of the story. Nothing (excluding the garbage added in the LN) is unnecesary or uninteresting. Mushoku Tensei is a work of art.
Rudy was like 9yrs old there? Like bruhhhhh, that argument at the bar doesn't even matter. He's a child dropped into the most dangerous demon lands. How Paul could not see that is insane. Doesn't matter if Rudy is a prodigy, he's still a child in need of protection.
Paul truly was a failure of a father. Talking about rescuing his family, well rescue his son! Right in front of him and doesn't care Rudy is alive.
Fascinating show, Paul is a shit show.
The Paul-Rudy argument it feels so relatable. It made me cry not gonna lie, ive been through this argument before. But yeah as i became more mature i now respect my father as high as hell while also him listening to the side of my story
While the analisis of the first conflict makes sense, the analisis of the second conflict was pretty shallow. I mean, who started with the provoking? Was is Rudeus or Paul? It was clearly Paul, saying that travelling across the Demon Continent was a good thing and that he was only worried about picking up a girl. Rudy merely talked back, using the same accusations. Paul didn't even consider the fact that Rudeus was in the center of the mana disaster, so he couldn't know that the incident was as big as it was. Or even that he was living day by day, thinking about how to get into their homes again, while thinking about how to clean the reputation of the Superds, etc.
Another great analysis yet again. While it may be just how it's lesson was the important part of the buena village agreement which leads to the fight being made an after thought, it's still a showcase of the actual personality rudeus has. In a way, this fight did set off the relation of Paul to rudy, which went on to millishion and then in vol 12. Looking forward to more video analysis
Paul is bad father figure
But he still trying
He might never be good but atleast he try
This is the exact reason why i love moshukou tensei. Every character if not all are written so realistically and so profoundly and not just a side character designed to revolve around and kiss-as* to an OP protagonist. Which at his point considering all the isekai anime with the same trope, is getting really cringey, edgy, and overused not to mention lazy self insert writing.
Mushoku Tensei is one of those evergreen series I would revisit.
It always hits, yet it's always different. The text was the same, but it was I that changed.
Amazing video buddy! Love it.
MT is a masterpiece.
Paul is my favorite character, not just because of his rule as a CHARACTER, but beyond that, he tells Rudy to consider his mother and sisters more important than himself, and Rudy thinks that Paul is aknowledging him, not knowing that he considers Rudy along with his family more important than himself, and that "why" at the end always brings a tear to my eyes
I have a HUGE crush on paul. Daddddddyyy
The amount of missing the point about Paul as a character and specifically post Teleport Incident almost surprises me.
But then I remember that it's weebs we are talking about and media literacy tends to be low around here.
The ENTIRE POINT of Paul is making you feel uneasy and bothered by his emotional and violent reaction.
He was scum in the past, but he did a lot of growing and tried to do what he thought was best as a father.
Now you see him episodes later (Years for Rudeus) and he is... Just a drunk asshole enraged at his son.
THAT'S THE POINT.
It shows a character not at his prime, a father figure (or at least respectable fellow adult man when Rudeus is thinking as his past self) that hit a low ground.
The scene is supposed to hurt, Paul point isn't supposed to be intellectual, it's supposed to be an explosion of emotions from love to anger to sadness all the way to the deep thought of "Why is my son better than me already?".
It's violent representation of what it means to be human, to not be perfect, yet still trying to do your best.
Because ultimately, Paul is kinda of an asshole. Nobody will ever be perfect, but Paul is even more distant than most from being such.
And yet, even such a flawed man, can be a loving father, a respectable leader and even an Hero for the people he risked his life for.
Sure, he was motivated by searching for his family, but he still ended up taking risks for others, going out of his way to do the best for everyone around him, strangers included.
Paul is the perfect example of Mushoku Tensei is about, and it's not by chance that Rudeus and the 3 love interests excluded, he is part of the emotional center of the first half of the series.
ALSO SPOILER BELOW FROM AFTER WHAT WILL BE COVERED IN SEASON 2
Even more, Paul acts as a mirror to what Oldeus ends up being like.
An angry man removed from his family and loved ones that risk pushing others aside, still technically fighting a good fight that puts him at odds with the powerful, but in an entirely different way.
Oldeus was only selfish and failed at respecting others when they came searching for reconciliation (Eris), and while Paul actions ended up helping many, Oldeus at his prime was using kingdoms as shields and source of incomes while murdering his way through the world in search of revenge.
Even when fallen, Paul kept his best, Rudeus doesn't.
It's an important mirror to show how slippery Rudeus morality and character is when it comes to protecting those he love
If you actually knew anything about media literacy, you'd know it's completed understandable for stories to be interpreted in different ways. So long as you provide enough support for your argument, it is valid even if not everyone agrees.
I don't see Paul as jealous of Rudeus. I see him as feeling inadequate of being the father of Rudeus, a common experience among many parents of so called "geniuses".
Its a good video but honestly I still hate paul lol
Eh, paul wasn’t really justified at all in the second argument tbh and the show itself directly states that. He completely ignored the fact that his own child survived and came back from the demon continent completely on his own and got angry at him for not even being aware of something there was no way he could have been aware of. He held his own son to standards of being literally omniscient, and in a completely immature and uncalled for manner, mocked his struggles without a second thought for whether Rudy was explaining it properly or in a way that made it easier for Paul to consume
Great analysis, there is so much depth to this series that is often overlooked or ignored by people complaining about Rudy's perverted nature.
The problem I have as a big fan of the story is that his perverted nature is often overdone to the point of distracting from the story and serves no purpose. It also does not get that much better with time.
As an example, I always mention a situation from a later arc (no spoilers, don't worry) where Rudeus meets a woman for the first time. Her appearance is described as this is also the first time the reader encounters this character. Rudeus describes her with the words: "like most women from Asura, she has brown hair but unlike most women from Asura, she is also blessed with a rather large chest." So far so good, a witty and funny remark that is in line with Rudeus and his personality. However, after that remark the author deemed it necessary for Rudeus to indulge in a drawn-out monologue, comparing the chest size of that new character to all female characters he is close with and ranking them. The initial remark is just Rudeus being Rudeus, while giving a character description that is well-written IMO. But the following monologue serves no purpose other than communicating for the 1000th time that Rudeus is still a perverted guy while throwing the reader out of what is supposed to be a suspenseful situation for Rudeus.
I think I fell in love with Mushoku Tensei just during the scene of their first argument. I liked the series before, actually from the first episode, but that scene showed me that this anime is really something more.
It's interesting to view their second fight through the lense of Paul before I kept reading how people dismissed his frustrations towards Rudy but it's completely justifiable but not justified (what i mean about that is that it's somewhat valid to feel frustrated, but is unfair to outright blame Rudy for things he is not incontrol or things he doesn't know about), It's unfair that Paul outright assumes that Rudy is aware of the situation, even if Rudy came out more mature back when they had their first dispute, it's not fair to assume that everyone is in the same page. When Rudy share's his adventure. Instead of assuming the worse of his son he should've just explained the situation to him in the first hand. That way Rudy can asses the issue and not come of as insenstive as he was when he boasts about his adventure light heartedly.
i think we can all agree he isn't a perfect father and that's why he is interesting character in his own, But what makes him more interesting are the people he is surrounded with and how he learns from them his friend gave him a proper counceling about his outburst of emotion towards Rudy, and Rudy also admits that it was a wake up call.
But you did miss one thing Paul still cheated on his wife so Rudy isn't wrong to assume what he said about Paul.
Rudy saved the dynamic of the family in th house, so in Rudy's mind Paul isn't a good example of a father.
When this part happened I originally thought "they could've just had an expository for catching up, but the author went ahead and put drama, making the father have it's own complexity" at first i hated the situation but you know in a character writing stand point, and how things are if the author made you feel a certain way that they intended, that means it's working as intended. it certainly did gave me an emotions that i didn't expect to have.
I read the manga and a good chunk of the light novel so the second argument seemed like a fault on both sides. Rudeus when put into a corner about his adventure through the demon continent he does a low blow by suggesting Paul is still being unfaithful like in the past. That isn’t right but he isn’t thinking about the current person his father is now.
While Paul is just wrong fully he assumes that for Rudy it was some sort of walk through the park getting to Paul was totally at fault and while in the anime it conveys Rudy is happy about the events that took place he just went through so much and wanted to convey that everything is okay and will be okay. Rudy just like everyone else is shocked about the teleportation incident so much but instantly started looking towards surviving and protecting Eris rather than being a scared child crying about it or any normal reaction to what is happening.
Incredible video essay! That scene was when I realized that this show was special. I wasn't able to put it into words why I thought that but you did. I initially thought the show was like fan service initially from what heard ppl say about rudeus. But that scene made me saw paul as a character with depth. And the scene felt very real and personal to me.
Paul is the father of all time
They both failed to inquire about one another's struggles in the second dispute. Paul listened to Rudeus's stories but through a warped perspective. It's because his depression caused him to be cynical and judgemental.
After seeing this scene and as a new father definitely put me in the position of listening to my kids before acting. I love this scene and I love how it has a teaching moment.
Agreed, I love positive moments where parents are shown to be not only human but that they can grow and learn as well
New father here. This conversation brought me to tears because it such a valuable lesson
“Quite justified”. As a father, I disagree
I never realized how these arguments are really an inverse of each other. Great observation!
Es genial esta escena, me alegra que retratas a la audiencia el trasfondo, en la novela es bastante más extensa. Por ejemplo cuando paul habla con geese luego piensa 'que pasaría si hubiese sido al revez, Norn fuera una genio y hubiese sido teletransportada al continente demoníaco y la Encontrara viva luego de 5 años, le hubiese contado la misma historia y que sobrevivió. Le hubiese pegado a Norn?' Esa reflexión le hizo sentir super mal, sintiéndose de nuevo mal padre, por molestarse en vez de estar feliz de que este vivo y no mutilado.
When this scene ended I knew this was my favorite anime
Rudy keeps the family together after his dad cheats on his mom. Rudy was just a young boy when he was sent away for growing too attached to Sylphy because Paul wanted Rudy to marry a woman with big breasts for the genetics. The teleportation event happens while Rudy is still very much a weak child, and is teleported to one of the most dangerous places in the world. While Rudy grew stronger over the years, Paul seethed at the fact that he wasn't able to find his wife and other daughter, and placed all that blame on Rudy instead of accepting his own helplessness. He even went so far as to poison Rudy's little sister's options about Rudy in order to make their reunion that much more painful. Paul is a shit father and no one will be able to convince me otherwise.
I dropped mushoku Tensei specifically because of this argument. And no it's not like I hate all of mushoku Tensei. My problem is excatly what Paul said. In a 'normal' or ya know what lets refrain from using that. In a common household. The kids learn from the parents. From the start I noticed that Paul indeed is a scum but Rudy is excatly the same. In this predicement Rudy was learning Paul a lesson. Ya know some little lesson since Paul cheated. But Paul got irritated. Why? Because is Rudy right but Rudy is younger than Paul. And myself, I had a feeling Rudy was being a little ya know c*cky about it. Alright okay got ya. Paul is a scum for cheating but still did his best to provide everyone. He took the responsibilty for his actions. But Rudy, he is no better. We all know that he is the biggest pervert alive. Even spying. And then doing as if your the parent teaching Paul ticked me off a little bit. BUt hey its still good anime ya know. Good life and such. Then we get the teleportation incident.
Rudy going on a big adventure and stuff. Then he finally meets his dad again. Well here is my problem. Rudy explaining how fun and exciting his journey was. I mean it was fun to watch. But what ticked me off real bad is Paul was indeed right about a vacation. Ofcourse the demon country itself was dangerous as hell, like litteraly. But throughout the whole demon country arc. I had no feeling that Rudy ever felt to be back with his family. To search for his family.
Then we get the the argument where Rudy telling his beautiful adventure and stuff. Im like ok ok. But you can see that the whole cafe tension becomes bad. And you can see that Paul is irritated. But somehow Rudy doesnt feel or see it. When his dad gets mad and punches him and talks about trying to get the family back and stuff. Rudy realizes he didnt think about it at all. Then Rudy becomes angry and start punching Paul. And now my question is WHY. You know your in the wrong and everything but you still have to audacity to punch your father in the face multiple times. Why would you do that. And all that stuff about he is still a kid is not true at all. Because its a 30 year old in the mind. HECK if your a 30 year old you should be able to read the room and you should know very very good to not punch your own father in the face.
Well after that Rudy and Paul meet up again. And now here is the part where it pisses me off the most. Paul sees his faults and stuff. Apologizes again for mistakes he made. And genuinly trying to be a better person. While on the other hand Rudy comes off light again. WHAT. Why does Rudy get away with everything he does. It ticked me off so much to point of dropping the anime.
Though on the other hand. I do get why people like Tensei Mushoku. Cause its has great character development yes. And It has comedy but drama and action too. Its mysterious and a great adventure. So I really get why people Like this so much.
I personally didn't like how Rudy kept sarcastically mocking Paul during their first argument. He made his point across but it's a if the more he talked the less it was about what happened but about Rudy enjoying mortifying his father. Idk. My point here is really that Rudeus is being immature here too but the scene doesn't frame it as such.
I really like those two conversation when Rudy get into conflict with Paul, especially their reunion.
The Father who know his son as a genius and gifted magic, expecting more to him. Paul look's very awful, sadnness and stress were written on his face because he lost hope to found his family (if you still think Paul is bastard [yes he is but please look the condition too], you can see in opening of this (or next?) eps to get more visualize how depressed and sad he is). Even though, two of them are able to meet but Paul doesn't look very happy (you know if father and son long lost must have really happy shouting their name, hugging or something special to say), of course Rudy knew it from his face, Paul mostly got someting bad happen and Rudy tried to cheer him by telling his stories at best mood. While it backfired made Paul mad because he thought Rudy is living his life while Paul feel he is suffering and struggling find family all alone.
BUT, Rudy is just a KID out there in very dangerous place who are new in this world and doesn't know anything also it's his first time of adventuring, of course he didn't even think of other life while himself is on under dangerous and unknown place. In addition, he must protecting and raise money for Eris too. Even he is special of course there is limit for a kid (yes Rudy actually 30's but he is still new in this world). Just imagine there is genius kid with high technique of fighting but throw them at harsh place with a lot of crime and must protecting someone, do you think he could survive by his gifted power? No, it should be not.
The end of their conflict gone very well. Poor Rudeus got crushed by father hope, he felt the guilty in his throat. In other side Paul realized after talking to "that monkey" he is too demanding and behave in bad manner. He tried to make up with Rudeus and Rudeus accept his invitation. On their second conversation, Paul is really confused, don't know to say, also this time he felt more guilty looking Rudeus so overwhelmed from "happy story telling" into this thing. The bartender save those two by telling Rudeus too look at Paul face. After that, Rudeus also realized Paul really tried to make up even though doesn't know to do , unlike him in his life before reincarnation where he rejecting everyone and waiting someone to give a hand. Understanding father concern, he played along too forget everything happen and start over, hugging him. There's how things parent and son long lost-found should be.
Two of them are really awesome character in my eyes, people tend to like the action or harem but i like this anime because of things like this. This really heartwarming and really good interaction between character, not only in main perspective but also in side perspective
i miss paul
2:32 i need the name of this music, i love that violin and flutes... Frieren? no its not hmmm
man i did not want this in my recommendations i was already crying last week from reading volume 12
The thing I love about this anime is how realistic the character are. While I do wish the pervy stuff was tonned down a tad I am very glad to see the story showing Rudeious actually learn and change. He is starting to became a decent person. While he has done some messed up things like literally molesting a sleeping girl. He is changing. He is no longer THAT child. I praise this anime for having some of the most realistic arcs and characters Ive ever seen in an anime.
I realized I spoke too soon after watching season 2 >_< damn it Rudeus you were so close! Why!
@@GreatGreenGoo Haha, yeah it gets better over line, character devolopment baby!!
@@GreatGreenGoo watching the sisters part of the story, he evolved well
it can be a bit understandable to be pissed about Rudeus not even trying to send a letter since he was in multiple cities even while in the demon continent, and I assume they must have some kind of bird or magic beast that sends letters (even if they aren't super reliable he could send more than one), after all that's like vanishing for years without calling your parents after a terrorist attack. Also neither of them knew how much the other knew about the scale of the mana disaster, Rudeus tought it was a small scale thing since he was close to the center and Paul assumed Rudeus would know it was big since he should've been in the city and see it all be consumed, I think they never adress this.
In the end both are flawed, Paul should've been better and more mature, stop Rudeus big story and tell him the situation, but he was never thaaat mature and a drunk and depressed dude that had lost almost all hope can be damn unpredictable, and Rudeus was dense not reading the mood in the room or noticing the abscence of the rest of his family sooner, he kida still tought he was the center of the world as he says so himself, he was taking it all kind of as a game.
This interaction was SO damn satisfyingly. There were times, one in particular, as a kid my dad would acknowledge that I was in the right or handled an argument in a good way, but I was still forced to apologize to "keep the peace," for lack of a better term, without getting one in return. shit is so damn frustrating
Welcome to dealing with people
You already know why I'm back
the anime didn't do it justice, as much as I love it, that's the truth
Love this Video, but there is something wrong with your analysis. Paul started that argument, he jumped to conclusions and projected his anger at Rudy. While Rudy should have been more sensitive to Paul situation and nit pharsed his trip in such a causal light; Paul gave no credence to the context Rudy was in or the even more difficult journey he had.
Paul only gets this context later when he finds out what Rudy had to go through and he realizes they both had a really rough journey and neither deserved to be torn down for it. Both Paul and Rudy were in the exact same place in terms of growth in that moment.
It feels so real like you had that arguing in real life, you see misunderstanding, tension and nonsense
But Paul followed his own advice after the bully incident. He, once he realized his mistake, apologizes.
That gives him bonus points.
Rudy isn't emotionally 34 when born in Buena. He most probably had arrested emotional development, at 13 or so. When he went hikimori he stopped growing emotionally. When he and Paul met in Millis Rudy had barely grown emotionally. Still juvenile.
No. Paul on the 2nd argument was still wrong. Rudy asked him several times but Paul never explained. I do understand Paul was depressed and pretty much given up, but you can't blame a child no matter how much of a genius he is. Paul was wrong. Even geese sides and explains it to paul. Thats why he apologized later.
This might be late to comment on, but imo what we sort of forgotten about is that, until rudeus’s party’s arrival in Millis and meeting paul only then that he realized the teleportation incident didnt just happened to him and eris only, but on the entire Fittoa region.
As a son of a father clearly in distress, retelling of his journey to get to Millis in a censored and sanitised version will surely make a father worry less but unknown to Rudeus at that time is how Paul thought of him instead of a son barely in his teenage years but as a man of great power and someone who is superior in a aspect to himself.
When Paul questioned Rudeus on him not seeing the notice of Paul in Zandport, Paul didnt even give Rudeus the benefit of the doubt, and instead going on the way Rudeus retold his journey and commenting that Rudues just cared about having this “honeymoon” journey. On the contrary, when they both got teleported onto the Demon Continent, the thing on Rudeus’s mind was to get them both back home as soon as possible, thinking that their family will be worried.
While yes Rudeus is slightly in the wrong here for not finding ways of sending news back home, given the many examples given in the LN, manga, and anime, sending a letter or any sort of parcel across continent takes a long time, and by the time Rudeus got to Millis, the letter might have just arrived in Fittoa(which is gone). So all arguments on Rudeus should have sent a letter back is out of the window.
So, instead of saying Rudeus hasnt matured, he has only done what can be done with what limited information he has all while trying to not get himself and eris killed by a rumored ruthless demon and many more in the Demon continent, finding ways to earn money for transportation and sustenance for living. All this while Paul is in Millis having near limitless financial support from Zenith’s family and information access being a S ranked adventurer.
In conclusion what i have to say is that in the first argument, Paul is definitely in the wrong with reasons ald stated in the video, but for the second argument, instead pinning blame on Rudy, Paul is mostly at wrong for thinking he suffered the most in comparison, thinking that everything he says is right without even hearing any explanation and questioning the validity of what Rudeus said given Rudeus just came back from the Demon Continent of all places, and thinking the way he posted notices for his family members is all mighty that it a given that they will see it. While imo the only wrong Rudeus has is that he over edited his journey into something akin to a day in the amusement park.
Sorry for the long comment but i think i can at least provide a personal insight to the second argument after compiling all the chapter leading up to it.
rudy likelly did not even told paul about the queen ripping his eye off, to put a new one there (must have hurt to the point of traumatizing most kids)
I actually never thought about rhose 2 scenes having effects on each other you did well my guy
It is unreasonable of Paul to expect Rudeus to know just how far the Teleportation incident reached.
Re was among the few in the center of it.
He had absolutely no way of knowing how far it had reached, And Absolutely no way of knowing how many people had been affected.
He was dropped on the northern end of a continent on the other side of the world with only his staff and his 11 year old cousin.
If it wasn't for Rijurd, They would have died within days of being there.
It was because Rijurd adopted them under his guardianship that they even made it to Migurd village.
From there it was just a matter of making their way south.
Paul does make a point that Rudeus SHOULD have atleast checked for notices on the guild board, But there would have been ZERO reason to expect news to have reached that far that quickly or that anyone would have been looking for them at all.
Paul was completely inconsiderate about the hardships that his own son had to go through to make it to a home that for all intents and purpose is gone.
While Rudeus was the same toward Paul about the things he had to do to find ANYONE, I do not believe the difficulty of their shared hardships is in anyway equal.
One thing that people also don't think about in these reincarnation animes where you keep all your memories, is even if you start out with the mind set of a 30 year old trapped ina 5 year olds body. is psychologically i firmly believe your brain would de mature over the years to match the mental age of your actual body.
So lets say Rudy starts out
Age 0 - mind set of 35 year old
age 5- mind set of a 30 year old
age 10-mind est of a 25 year old
age 15-mind set of a 20 year old
age 18-Mental maturity finally in perfect match
We also see exactly this happening in the Idol anime for the doctor, and while it's never mentioned here, i do believe Rudy is going through a similar experience as we see his character development.
I dislike your framing of Rudy being in the wrong during their second argument. I assume that's not what you meant to say, only that he's no longer in a position of authority. I agree with that position, but Rudius is clearly the character the audience is expected to sympathize with during their second encounter. He's just a child happy to be reunited with his father and trying to express himself as best he knows how. Paul's inability to look past his own circumstances makes him unable to see that until Geese reframes it for him. So I think it's inaccurate to say this is where Paul becomes a father to Rudy. I'd say this is where they become equals. But Paul still has some growing to do before he's ready to impart the fatherly wisdom Rudy needs.
Remember Rudues was at ground zero of the mana disaster, even suspected of causing it. There is no eveidnence for him to think the teleportation had such an AoE.
Why would pual be in Millis? He was kicked out for cheating. But Rudeus did not emidietely accuse Pual of cheating. Only after Pual acting antagonizing did rudes do so.
Paul didn't exaplain to Rudeus either.
I completely disagree with your point of view on both arguments. Paul is a failed father and husband, and deeply flawed man. He lost both arguments when he decided to assault his only son. You can argue he has truth here and there, however, truth falls by the wayside when callus evil is employed. Make no mistake, to strike someone is a complete demonstration of apathy for their physical wellbeing and disrespect for their spiritual wellness. That apathy and disrespect turns to evil when conducted by someone who is supposed to love you unconditionally. Paul is lucky to have Rudy in any way….not so for Rudy having Paul.
Paul isn’t a young father trying to figure things out. Their society is akin to that of our medieval Europe, right? So… like 19 would be like +30 years old or something? If anything what was he waiting for?
Damn I didn't realize Paul was only 24 😂😂😂
I feel like this video highlights less about how great this scene is and more about how little you understand of how great the rest of the show is.