It should also be noted that Double Barrel does not actually fire both shells at once. It just fires both in succession very quickly. This means that against a frozen target while using White Phosphorus Shells the first shot will still thaw the target and the second will obviously not get the frozen damage buff.
@@gojizard704 do you still kill bugs......do you still mine.....do you still drink.....if all that be true you are no failure of a dwarf......ROCK AND STONE
Maybe if it made the gun have only one shot, turning it into a single-shot shotgun but merging both shots' damage and increasing it even more, perhaps while also giving some other benefits like reload speed or less spread, therefore making the weapon more of a single huge burst, reducing versatily but increasing potential damage output against single targets.
Double-trigger actually has a faster reload speed even disregarding the reload reduction from the other trait; attack speed increases animation speed letting you enter the reload animation faster after firing your last shot. It's very goofy and the reload speed mod needs a rework.
Just to clarify: quickfire ejector does actually offer a VERY SLIGHTLY faster reload than double trigger (about 0.15 seconds according to the wiki). It's still small enough that double trigger is almost always the better choice, but for very specific builds that really care about reload speed, quickfire ejector does technically offer the highest possible.
@@cheesebossfinch8071 Yeah, but it's so close it's basically negligible. I think the only noticeable difference would be if both shots were fired, you were forced to grapple away, and THEN you reloaded. LazyMaybe did a side-by-side here: th-cam.com/video/RyFbfNH6Vj4/w-d-xo.html
@@lukemartineau490 Thanks for linking that. Yeah that's basically the whole problem, unless you're running Double Barrel or like... Maybe shaped shells? There's no reason to ever use quickfire ejector. A buff would be nice, maybe they should move the auto-reloader to that tier?
I spent a lot of time playing with Powder, the thinking being that if I have to horde clear, we're doomed anyway. Your video helps highlight the other option in case I do need to carry or the mission is unlikely to involve relocation. Jumbo shells clear winner for escort missions.
Yep, I even had that basic scout gameplay in the description and will likely do a video on it. Perhaps for the next series the first video should be basic play style and then that frames the discussion around the guns.
To be honest, having that extra tool of special powder has helped me more with swarms than even something for clearing swarms like cryo minelets, as the ability to get out of any situation quickly and blast away is just invaluable to scout's hit and run playstyle for me
Amazing and very thorough analysis! Great job. I wish more build breakdowns/analysis were done like this--considering all the factors and how it actually plays in practical combat and not just a one dimension analysis of what the theoretical total ammo and dps is from a calculator. Can't wait for more videos again, keep em coming.
With special powder, I use the ssg primarily as a mobility tool and rely on my primary for damage. As such, I take both ammo increases, autoreload, and double trigger.
awesome video . big update to the t2 mods reload delay, is now forced at .4s so the reload speed is way more competitive, but still about .4s behind on a mag dump+reload.. double barrel also had a huge changes which makes it much better than it used to be.
The description has a FAQ and clarifications section for the video; scout suggested playstyle that helps frame the simulations; all the links for the players who helped with my research; mods used; Boomstick damage spreadsheet and much more! A huge thank you to everyone in the Gaming Existence Discord server who gave feedback on my test videos and information for the video, link to join in the description. And thank you for watching! Rock and stone!
dont know if anyone already mentioned but SSBT rounds causes stun on each target hit, as well as penetrated. Meaning a pellet can potentially stun 3 enemies
Excellent video GE! This scout series has definitely changed how I see the weapon choices and overclocks, and has convinced me to try out different builds and get away from the same stuff I always use! Thanks for the great work, looking forward to your final scout video for build comparisons etc.
Double barrel should be reworked to glyphid slug, still fires 2 ammo with 1 shot but is pinpoint accurate at long range and deals really high damage similar to hyper propellant for PGL
Great video! Appreciate all of the hard work and effort that goes into researching and making these videos, you're awesome mate. Also thanks again for essentially converting me to using the Lok-1, lol.
I use practically the complete opposite of other players with my boomstick. I run 44 ammo special powder, with fear, blowthrough rounds and reload speed. I don't want damage, I want to mobilize and get the bugs away. I use it with both Field Medic and Shield booster with 60 Bag size, and thorns+resupplier. Aggressive Venting Drak gives good crowd aoe. And with the IFG, I can zip around like a hooligan and then double-weapons fear abuse bugs while saving a ton of IFGs for a pinch. Also fear spam with drak-elec and ifg-elec just disables bugs for so long and so easily. The double rng of both fear+stun makes it more consistent at stopping incoming damage to your team without sacrificing ammo mods. The reload speed is infinitely better for mid-air, timed and controlled air-resets.
Let's goooo ! Hope you'll do that for every weapons, I very like ur videos buddy :^D I'm following that series with the "breakdown" video from Lazymaybe
If you want to use the Boomstick along side a Cryo Grenade to quickly take down enemies like Praetorians, Wardens, and even Menaces, I'd recommend taking Jumbo Shells, built 1-1-2-1-1/2 (depending on if you have Born Ready), along side a generalist GK2 (post season 3), built 3-2-1/2-1-1 and the Overclocked Firing Mechanism overclock. This set setup can very quickly delete high-health targets, and, if the Cryo Grenade is used properly, can easily take advantage of blowthrough for a ton of collateral damage. You can also use the boom stick to quick kill bunched up enemies without Cryo Grenades; however, the lack of tier 5's White Phosphorous Shells does make it lack in sustained crowd control.
i think the added stun is good for bullets of mercy for the gk2, considering the gk2's version is less than 2 seconds long, and now is forced to trade off ROF.
Zhukov is coming up next. I have a lot of hours with Embedded dets and I would say for dreds they will beat the boomstick other than a frost heavy team and jumbo shells.
@@shaunhayes3072 u do have a point, but u are assuming alot, electric bolts are unnecessary if ur driller is running slug, what if i don't use ifg, and hyper propellant is very close to shard and in many cases out right better. and thats if they even use t5a which they might not
I think Scott is low hazard solo player or high hazard mission objective player and guns are two goals 1: high value targets (range and flying targets) 2: save your skin then get out, let your team get the swarm I play with Drak with single target damage abd broomstick double barrel for the new shockwave damage boost (clear an opening in swarm or destroy frozen praetorians) Although, a team with statis effects and bullets of mercy can whipe anything big off the map
Double Barrel needs to be changed as such... Reduced clip from 2 to 1 Double Pellet amount. Faster reload. (Or faster firerate, both are effectively the same for a slow fire rate weapon) Half ammo. With theses changes it will do what people expect of firing one powerful shot and not confuse those that don't understand that it shoots two quickly. The faster reload is just to help counteract the issue of using having to reload after every shot, just makes it more fun to use.
Still would be bad with twice less cones spread across bugs. Prolly even worse. ig you theoretically can spread the DB shots out to cover as much area with the cones and avoid the pellets overkilling the area.
Is always really tough with these videos because if I do a 4 minute section on a dud OC like double barrel people turn off. Still trying to find the right balance. I should have made it clearer with special powder. The compact shells Sims are the same for special powder as they have the same stats. The video has a whole section on compact with ammo and pellets and damage and pellets, these Sims are the same for special powder. Next video I will make things like this clearer but I could have done more around the discussion of ammo or not with it. Thanks for the comment. 😊
somethings i would add, the ammo mods give different amounts of ammo, 8 to 12 so if u take damage u will have 4 more shots then if u take pellets, that being said pellets is still normally better. the more pellets u have the most consistent ur gun is which is very important. one of the major upsides to jumbo shells is the shear damage, and many ppl take it so they can chunk big targets quick so a more fair damage test would also include dreadnaughts and ttk on a predatorian. in no case should u ever take the reload mod, long story short when u want to reload the gun, the time between shots plays before u can reload and the base boom stick has such a slow fire rate that it adds around half a second to ur reload meaning that it barley has a faster reload then double trigger since it adds way more rate of fire. double barrel is also really bad and is a pure negative to the gun, u are way better of ligit not using a oc then using it.
Some good points, thanks for the comments. I chose to simply only focus on hordes apart from double section. Was not about making unfair simulations for jumbo. But yeah I could have done a few clips of it hitting larger targets but it was not the focus of this video. I will end up comparing builds/guns so we will see embedded Vs jumbo at some point I'm sure! Rock and stone!
@@GamingExistence yeah i was just pointing out that the main point of of the oc was to do very high single target damage and it oc trades a little ammo efficacy and crowd control for it so only doing a horde test doesn't make it look as good as it is since ur leaving out the main point, it would be like doing a crowd control test with the zhoks and using embedded as one of the ocs with out out testing it on high health targets lol. However if the whole point of the vid is just which boom stick oc has high horde clearing per ammo spent then its fair. also embedded Vs jumbo is going to be very a sad test since embedded destroys jumbo shells 10 fold in single target damage also nice vid btw
@@aquapotato.. I will try and make it clearer in future videos what the video is about. Also I speak to high level players and none said they use jumbo for large targets, they all use it for horde clear. I really should have made that clear as jumbo at face value looks like you want to use it for large targets but if you're going to focus that then take embedded. All lessons being learnt here for me. Always a struggle to not have a two minute intro block.
@@GamingExistence "none said they use jumbo for large targets, they all use it for horde clear. " thats interesting i always thought of jumbo shells as the high single target damage oc. ofc it will be worse than embedded but i thought of it as a close second since it had way higher crowd control so its way more overall rounded. also now that i think of it the boomstick doesn't really have to many good ocs and besides shaped shells i guess jumbo shells would be ur best bet for crowd control, tbh they should rearange the ocs cuz having 4 greens are kina boring.
@@aquapotato.. In the description for the video I have a super brief Scout gameplay style that most high level players agree on. With that in mind that's why most would not use Jumbo or Embedded dets for large targets. I will likely do a short video on it before the builds comparisons video. But it all depends on your play style, who you play with and what you enjoy. Double barrel and special powder should really be yellow TBH. And double barrel could easily go and be turned into something better!
My loadout is something I like to call the “Murican Boomsticks”. I use M1000 with extended magazine overclock and Jury Rigged Shotgun with jumbo shells. It uses both long and short range, but not medium. Just fun to pick on any kind of enemy with.
I would take T1A with special powder over the 3 dmg any day. The 8 extra ammo from T1A means you can jump way more (which if you aren't, don't take special powder) and you can still barely ignite enemies with blowthrough + extra pellets.
Yeah a lot of people like the additional ammo but it does impact your horde clear. Remember the compact shells double damage build performed pretty well against the horde and with fire spread. Special powder double damage is exactly the same just less ammo.
Double barrel should be fully reworked out of being a clean overclock to being unstable. Here are my suggested stats: 50% magazine capacity x2 pellets +1 damage -33% ammo Bugs fear on kill Higher stun chance
I much prefer stuffed shells with all damage as it hits nice damage breakpoints and ammo efficiency. It hits 192+shockwave as it's 16 damage 12 pellets. Has 24 rounds as well. It's basically ammo and pellet jumbo shells with more consistency because of the extra pellet.
If anything, this has me convinced reload speed might be better than fire rate with jumbo shells if I'm only firing one shot at a time and being selective when I fire.
white phosphorus killer me more frequently than fall damge since I use special powder and tend to forget that the leaking gas of the praetorian is flammable
Iron, there is one scenario where you would use Double Barrel over Jumbo Shells. Often you're zipping around on your grappling hook, and if your driller just froze the spitballer/praetorian/oppressor, you will have to zip over the target and fire your shotgun. Because Double Barrel fires both shots at once, there's no way you miss the second shot while flying mid air and thus one shot the target. But with Jumbo Shells, even with the rapid fire mod, there's still a chance to miss the second shot if you're moving too fast. Also, you can actually fire one shot at a time using Double Barrel, by cancelling the second attack with right click. Personally, I use Double Barrel because I like the feel of doing huge damage in just one shot instead of firing two shots
I honestly wish that Ghostship games would rework Special Powder, as it is probably one of the strongest overclocks in the game since it's essentially a get-out-of-jail-free card; Especially if the jury rigged shotgun with special powder was given to the other dwarves it would be incredibly gamebreaking as it would grant them the same unparalleled movement and fall damage mitigation as scout. I find that the mobility granted by it makes it an absolute must have regardless of the situation. There have been countless times I've used it for just general map traversal to get minerals, or jump out of a bad situation, or to get to distant objectives or downed teammates. It can also be used alongside the grapple hook for huge bursts of movement, stop yourself from taking fall damage, or when you need to kite bugs by moving far away. I genuinely feel that the utility granted by the movement outshines the scouts 2 other admitedly lackluster secondaries, especially when your only other option is grapple hook which is dependent on there being a surface nearby and requires some forethought and positioning before use.
I don't know if I would say that double barrel is competing against jumbo shells... I think I'd say double barrel is competing against stuffed shells, and stuffed shells is objectively better, then *maybe*, just *maybe* stuffed shells is competing against jumbo shells. But honestly, for raw damage, none of the boomstick's ocs compete with jumbo. If you want big single target damage, you go jumbo shells, no questions asked. Side note: you never take the boomstick for the range, so I don't see much point in shaped shells. If you want range, M1000 is crazy accurate, and GK2 and Drak are more than accurate. You take boomstick either for special powder jump, high single target, or decent swarm clear with a couple shots, not for range.
Interesting, thanks for the comment. The way I see it is that double barrel is obviously not to be used on the hordes, this then puts it into large target killing. As you said yourself nothing competes with Jumbo on that front. Range is an interesting one because a lot of players I spoke to (admittedly a lot play H6X2) appreciate the range and especially stun if the primary is down. A few players gave Shaped Shells some love and rated it. The common opinion was if they have a good driller and engineer for horde clear, it can be great if you have 6 HVT (high value targets) M1000 can take 4, then shaped shells gets the other two. Could make the difference in a fight. All depends on how you play, team composition and what your priorities are in that setup. All players agreed consistent stun at range for things like menaces was important to them and shaped shells does achieve that.
Taking both is going to hurt your ammo but it depends what OC you are going to use. On Jumbo that will be overkill for the hordes. On Compact shells go for it! Someone has commented they get good results with damage + pellets on Stuffed Shells. Something that did not feature in this video.
out of curiosity, now that double barrel has been buffed with an absolutely tremendous increase to its blast wave damage (which doubles when using the improved blast wave mod), how do you feel about it now? would you say it has use cases versus jumbo shells or is it still the inferior option?
Blast wave is still a risky business, especially on H5+ The ignite and fire spread still seems to be your best bet for hordes. More details here - karl.gg/blog/33#/
Thank you for the link! I don't currently have the jumbo shells overclock, so would using a very slightly modified 12313 with double barrel be reasonably effective on lower difficulties (I typically don't play Haz 5 since I'm not very good at the game '^_^)?
@@devout-guardsman Shame about not having Jumbo. Your build sounds interesting and go with what works for you! You will be smashing those higher hazards in no time! Rock and stone!
I think there is something wrong with your "total ammo" numbers at 13:05 : _AMM/PEL stuffed shells is 34ammo and not 32 _AMM/PEL jumbo shells is ok _AMM/AMM jumbo shells is 36 ammo and not 34 _DAM/PEL compact shells is ok The choice between AMM/AMM jumbo shells and DAM/PEL compact shells, is no clear cut. (But AMM/PEL stuffed shells still is the worse of the three)
@@GamingExistence builds in drg are more fun than other horde shooters because its very simple to make one just use these upgrades and maybe a overclock
I hate DOT I hate DOT I hate DOT I hate DOT I hate DOT fr tho like ye sure u can wait 3 minutes for a grunt to burn and save 1 ammo but, imo, u're usually playing in multiplayer, and the other players dont always have the time to stop and look at grunts health to realise that they dont really have to shoot it or anything, usually they'll just shoot all the enemies that are alive
I'm normally the same with DOTS in games. Just kill it straight up! I think the thing to focus on is the potential for fire spread which spreads that DOT. We may need to agree to disagree on your statement about not saving much ammo and the TTK. Fire spread is likely one of the most powerful mechanics in the game to assist your DPS and horde clear. The ammo saving and increased TTK can be quite crazy. My blog on karlgg might help convert you:karl.gg/blog/33#/
@@GamingExistence still, ur teammates are likely to shoot the bugs anyways, so not much ammo is saved overall. plus bugs on fire still crawl to u and try to kill u, so there're times when even in singleplayer u would have to straight up finish them not to die
@@benismann Absolutely true. But on average it's likely going to better and Dave you a lot of ammo. The additional DPS potential is crazy. Going to Inferno on the Breach Cutter was like turning on easy mode Vs the horde. But this game can be played however you want to play and enjoy it. Especially in vanilla H5 where even builds that are lacking can do ok a decent amount of time and only struggle on really bad swarms or poor situations. This was all just based on my research and simulations and something for you to think about. It sounds like you hate DOTS and won't be using it, that's fine 😊
@@GamingExistence yeah, those are fair points in the end i'll just drop the bomb: i dont like born ready (im way too used to reloading manually so it just wastes a perk slot for me 90% of the time), so i actually have the born ready 5th mod on my boomstick
@@benismann That is quite a bomb! Can't leave home without Born ready 🙂 effectively increasing your DPS. Yeah I like Electrical damage especially with all the buffs it's got. Well certain weapons getting more damage
![[MV] A leap of faith...ความเชื่อใจครั้งสุดท้าย (From "Petrichor the series")](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U1piZH2CNXA/mqdefault.jpg)
It should also be noted that Double Barrel does not actually fire both shells at once. It just fires both in succession very quickly. This means that against a frozen target while using White Phosphorus Shells the first shot will still thaw the target and the second will obviously not get the frozen damage buff.
Even more reasons to not use double barrel
@@bananaspice1967 welp guess my favorite overclock is bad.... im a failure of a dwarf ;-;
@@gojizard704 No worries my dwarven friend! If ya rock and stone, you're notva failure!
@@gojizard704 do you still kill bugs......do you still mine.....do you still drink.....if all that be true you are no failure of a dwarf......ROCK AND STONE
Maybe if it made the gun have only one shot, turning it into a single-shot shotgun but merging both shots' damage and increasing it even more, perhaps while also giving some other benefits like reload speed or less spread, therefore making the weapon more of a single huge burst, reducing versatily but increasing potential damage output against single targets.
Special powder is my favorite overclock in the game. It's the most fun! I've heard many others agree.
Return of the King
Double-trigger actually has a faster reload speed even disregarding the reload reduction from the other trait; attack speed increases animation speed letting you enter the reload animation faster after firing your last shot. It's very goofy and the reload speed mod needs a rework.
Just to clarify: quickfire ejector does actually offer a VERY SLIGHTLY faster reload than double trigger (about 0.15 seconds according to the wiki). It's still small enough that double trigger is almost always the better choice, but for very specific builds that really care about reload speed, quickfire ejector does technically offer the highest possible.
@@cheesebossfinch8071 Yeah, but it's so close it's basically negligible. I think the only noticeable difference would be if both shots were fired, you were forced to grapple away, and THEN you reloaded. LazyMaybe did a side-by-side here: th-cam.com/video/RyFbfNH6Vj4/w-d-xo.html
@@lukemartineau490 Thanks for linking that. Yeah that's basically the whole problem, unless you're running Double Barrel or like... Maybe shaped shells? There's no reason to ever use quickfire ejector. A buff would be nice, maybe they should move the auto-reloader to that tier?
I spent a lot of time playing with Powder, the thinking being that if I have to horde clear, we're doomed anyway. Your video helps highlight the other option in case I do need to carry or the mission is unlikely to involve relocation. Jumbo shells clear winner for escort missions.
Yep, I even had that basic scout gameplay in the description and will likely do a video on it. Perhaps for the next series the first video should be basic play style and then that frames the discussion around the guns.
To be honest, having that extra tool of special powder has helped me more with swarms than even something for clearing swarms like cryo minelets, as the ability to get out of any situation quickly and blast away is just invaluable to scout's hit and run playstyle for me
Amazing and very thorough analysis! Great job. I wish more build breakdowns/analysis were done like this--considering all the factors and how it actually plays in practical combat and not just a one dimension analysis of what the theoretical total ammo and dps is from a calculator. Can't wait for more videos again, keep em coming.
With special powder, I use the ssg primarily as a mobility tool and rely on my primary for damage. As such, I take both ammo increases, autoreload, and double trigger.
awesome video . big update to the t2 mods reload delay, is now forced at .4s so the reload speed is way more competitive, but still about .4s behind on a mag dump+reload.. double barrel also had a huge changes which makes it much better than it used to be.
Wow. This is great comprehensive content. For a newer player just hitting overclocks and deep dives its invaluable.
Thank you.
Thank you and everybody that helped for the detailed analysis.
Great video! I really appreciate all the testing you do to see the nuances of different options in actual gameplay.
wow this was absolutely brilliant holy cow I can see how much work went into it
Definitely worth the wait. The visuals turned out very nice
The description has a FAQ and clarifications section for the video; scout suggested playstyle that helps frame the simulations; all the links for the players who helped with my research; mods used; Boomstick damage spreadsheet and much more! A huge thank you to everyone in the Gaming Existence Discord server who gave feedback on my test videos and information for the video, link to join in the description. And thank you for watching! Rock and stone!
If you use a close combat weapon you either want to kill fast or CC the target. again really good vid and it took much effort
Your Boomstick video be booming just like a boomerang 👀
dont know if anyone already mentioned but SSBT rounds causes stun on each target hit, as well as penetrated. Meaning a pellet can potentially stun 3 enemies
Excellent video GE! This scout series has definitely changed how I see the weapon choices and overclocks, and has convinced me to try out different builds and get away from the same stuff I always use! Thanks for the great work, looking forward to your final scout video for build comparisons etc.
Double barrel should be reworked to glyphid slug, still fires 2 ammo with 1 shot but is pinpoint accurate at long range and deals really high damage similar to hyper propellant for PGL
so like a pocket sniper?
Hurrah for the double barrel buff of season 4
that sweet 220 damage aoe
Most thorough and well presented deep dive on this informaton on youtube!
Superbe contenu ! Merci bordel !
Précis, informatif, et visuellement propre. Très intéressant.
special powder just makes the boomstick the force a nature from tf2 and i love it
Great video! Appreciate all of the hard work and effort that goes into researching and making these videos, you're awesome mate. Also thanks again for essentially converting me to using the Lok-1, lol.
Awesome to hear! Yeah I can't go back after using the Lok-1!
Absolutely amazing research! YOU ROCK (and stone) BROTHER!
I use practically the complete opposite of other players with my boomstick. I run 44 ammo special powder, with fear, blowthrough rounds and reload speed. I don't want damage, I want to mobilize and get the bugs away. I use it with both Field Medic and Shield booster with 60 Bag size, and thorns+resupplier. Aggressive Venting Drak gives good crowd aoe. And with the IFG, I can zip around like a hooligan and then double-weapons fear abuse bugs while saving a ton of IFGs for a pinch. Also fear spam with drak-elec and ifg-elec just disables bugs for so long and so easily. The double rng of both fear+stun makes it more consistent at stopping incoming damage to your team without sacrificing ammo mods. The reload speed is infinitely better for mid-air, timed and controlled air-resets.
Really interesting build and very different to what I have seen! Thanks for sharing! Rock and stone!
Let's goooo !
Hope you'll do that for every weapons, I very like ur videos buddy :^D
I'm following that series with the "breakdown" video from Lazymaybe
yes it was very helpfull thank you for your research im not use to play alot of scout, have a nice day
glad you're back :)
If you want to use the Boomstick along side a Cryo Grenade to quickly take down enemies like Praetorians, Wardens, and even Menaces, I'd recommend taking Jumbo Shells, built 1-1-2-1-1/2 (depending on if you have Born Ready), along side a generalist GK2 (post season 3), built 3-2-1/2-1-1 and the Overclocked Firing Mechanism overclock. This set setup can very quickly delete high-health targets, and, if the Cryo Grenade is used properly, can easily take advantage of blowthrough for a ton of collateral damage. You can also use the boom stick to quick kill bunched up enemies without Cryo Grenades; however, the lack of tier 5's White Phosphorous Shells does make it lack in sustained crowd control.
i think the added stun is good for bullets of mercy for the gk2, considering the gk2's version is less than 2 seconds long, and now is forced to trade off ROF.
Excellent as always. Any thoughts on boomstick vs embedded dets for dreads?
Zhukov is coming up next. I have a lot of hours with Embedded dets and I would say for dreds they will beat the boomstick other than a frost heavy team and jumbo shells.
@@shaunhayes3072 hm interesting idea but i do think embedded and jumbo shells would beat it
@@shaunhayes3072 u do have a point, but u are assuming alot, electric bolts are unnecessary if ur driller is running slug, what if i don't use ifg, and hyper propellant is very close to shard and in many cases out right better. and thats if they even use t5a which they might not
I think Scott is low hazard solo player or high hazard mission objective player and guns are two goals
1: high value targets (range and flying targets)
2: save your skin then get out, let your team get the swarm
I play with Drak with single target damage abd broomstick double barrel for the new shockwave damage boost (clear an opening in swarm or destroy frozen praetorians)
Although, a team with statis effects and bullets of mercy can whipe anything big off the map
Double Barrel needs to be changed as such...
Reduced clip from 2 to 1
Double Pellet amount.
Faster reload. (Or faster firerate, both are effectively the same for a slow fire rate weapon)
Half ammo.
With theses changes it will do what people expect of firing one powerful shot and not confuse those that don't understand that it shoots two quickly.
The faster reload is just to help counteract the issue of using having to reload after every shot, just makes it more fun to use.
Still would be bad with twice less cones spread across bugs. Prolly even worse. ig you theoretically can spread the DB shots out to cover as much area with the cones and avoid the pellets overkilling the area.
@@drillboyjenkins5740 The point of it is overkill, you're meant to put your shotgun up against an Obessors weakpoint and let loose.
I really hope you can do an updated guide post season 3 patch
I appreciate such extensive testing. Though Special Powder and Double Barrel weren't in-depth, the rest's been figured out very nicely.
Is always really tough with these videos because if I do a 4 minute section on a dud OC like double barrel people turn off. Still trying to find the right balance.
I should have made it clearer with special powder. The compact shells Sims are the same for special powder as they have the same stats. The video has a whole section on compact with ammo and pellets and damage and pellets, these Sims are the same for special powder.
Next video I will make things like this clearer but I could have done more around the discussion of ammo or not with it.
Thanks for the comment. 😊
I like to run stuffed shells with double ammo just to shoot big boom stick more
Why test against 4 guards 4 slashers 4 grunts? Isn't that an unrealistically high proportion of special grunt types?
somethings i would add, the ammo mods give different amounts of ammo, 8 to 12 so if u take damage u will have 4 more shots then if u take pellets, that being said pellets is still normally better.
the more pellets u have the most consistent ur gun is which is very important.
one of the major upsides to jumbo shells is the shear damage, and many ppl take it so they can chunk big targets quick so a more fair damage test would also include dreadnaughts and ttk on a predatorian.
in no case should u ever take the reload mod, long story short when u want to reload the gun, the time between shots plays before u can reload and the base boom stick has such a slow fire rate that it adds around half a second to ur reload meaning that it barley has a faster reload then double trigger since it adds way more rate of fire.
double barrel is also really bad and is a pure negative to the gun, u are way better of ligit not using a oc then using it.
Some good points, thanks for the comments.
I chose to simply only focus on hordes apart from double section. Was not about making unfair simulations for jumbo. But yeah I could have done a few clips of it hitting larger targets but it was not the focus of this video. I will end up comparing builds/guns so we will see embedded Vs jumbo at some point I'm sure!
Rock and stone!
@@GamingExistence yeah i was just pointing out that the main point of of the oc was to do very high single target damage and it oc trades a little ammo efficacy and crowd control for it so only doing a horde test doesn't make it look as good as it is since ur leaving out the main point, it would be like doing a crowd control test with the zhoks and using embedded as one of the ocs with out out testing it on high health targets lol. However if the whole point of the vid is just which boom stick oc has high horde clearing per ammo spent then its fair. also embedded Vs jumbo is going to be very a sad test since embedded destroys jumbo shells 10 fold in single target damage
also nice vid btw
@@aquapotato.. I will try and make it clearer in future videos what the video is about. Also I speak to high level players and none said they use jumbo for large targets, they all use it for horde clear.
I really should have made that clear as jumbo at face value looks like you want to use it for large targets but if you're going to focus that then take embedded.
All lessons being learnt here for me. Always a struggle to not have a two minute intro block.
@@GamingExistence "none said they use jumbo for large targets, they all use it for horde clear. " thats interesting i always thought of jumbo shells as the high single target damage oc. ofc it will be worse than embedded but i thought of it as a close second since it had way higher crowd control so its way more overall rounded. also now that i think of it the boomstick doesn't really have to many good ocs and besides shaped shells i guess jumbo shells would be ur best bet for crowd control, tbh they should rearange the ocs cuz having 4 greens are kina boring.
@@aquapotato.. In the description for the video I have a super brief Scout gameplay style that most high level players agree on. With that in mind that's why most would not use Jumbo or Embedded dets for large targets. I will likely do a short video on it before the builds comparisons video.
But it all depends on your play style, who you play with and what you enjoy.
Double barrel and special powder should really be yellow TBH. And double barrel could easily go and be turned into something better!
Amazing guide, thank you!
My loadout is something I like to call the “Murican Boomsticks”. I use M1000 with extended magazine overclock and Jury Rigged Shotgun with jumbo shells. It uses both long and short range, but not medium. Just fun to pick on any kind of enemy with.
I would take T1A with special powder over the 3 dmg any day.
The 8 extra ammo from T1A means you can jump way more (which if you aren't, don't take special powder) and you can still barely ignite enemies with blowthrough + extra pellets.
Yeah a lot of people like the additional ammo but it does impact your horde clear.
Remember the compact shells double damage build performed pretty well against the horde and with fire spread. Special powder double damage is exactly the same just less ammo.
Double barrel should be fully reworked out of being a clean overclock to being unstable. Here are my suggested stats:
50% magazine capacity
x2 pellets
+1 damage
-33% ammo
Bugs fear on kill
Higher stun chance
Video focuses so much on frozen in certain places, but we only get 4 cryo grenades.
I much prefer stuffed shells with all damage as it hits nice damage breakpoints and ammo efficiency. It hits 192+shockwave as it's 16 damage 12 pellets. Has 24 rounds as well. It's basically ammo and pellet jumbo shells with more consistency because of the extra pellet.
*insert Count Dooku meme* I have been waiting for this... :)
Wait, there are other overclocks other than Special Powder?
Very nice video
welcome back :)
Thank you! Had some life stuff slowing down production. Hopefully back into the swing of more regular videos now :)
How about a video about shard diffractor it has plenty of interesting overclocks
P.s. volatile impact reactor is so good))
If anything, this has me convinced reload speed might be better than fire rate with jumbo shells if I'm only firing one shot at a time and being selective when I fire.
white phosphorus killer me more frequently than fall damge since I use special powder and tend to forget that the leaking gas of the praetorian is flammable
Iron, there is one scenario where you would use Double Barrel over Jumbo Shells.
Often you're zipping around on your grappling hook, and if your driller just froze the spitballer/praetorian/oppressor, you will have to zip over the target and fire your shotgun.
Because Double Barrel fires both shots at once, there's no way you miss the second shot while flying mid air and thus one shot the target. But with Jumbo Shells, even with the rapid fire mod, there's still a chance to miss the second shot if you're moving too fast.
Also, you can actually fire one shot at a time using Double Barrel, by cancelling the second attack with right click.
Personally, I use Double Barrel because I like the feel of doing huge damage in just one shot instead of firing two shots
Doesnt the Quickfire get kneecaped by hidden reload delay?
I honestly wish that Ghostship games would rework Special Powder, as it is probably one of the strongest overclocks in the game since it's essentially a get-out-of-jail-free card; Especially if the jury rigged shotgun with special powder was given to the other dwarves it would be incredibly gamebreaking as it would grant them the same unparalleled movement and fall damage mitigation as scout. I find that the mobility granted by it makes it an absolute must have regardless of the situation. There have been countless times I've used it for just general map traversal to get minerals, or jump out of a bad situation, or to get to distant objectives or downed teammates. It can also be used alongside the grapple hook for huge bursts of movement, stop yourself from taking fall damage, or when you need to kite bugs by moving far away. I genuinely feel that the utility granted by the movement outshines the scouts 2 other admitedly lackluster secondaries, especially when your only other option is grapple hook which is dependent on there being a surface nearby and requires some forethought and positioning before use.
I'm sorry but you do realise that hoverclock and boots exist right?
I don't know if I would say that double barrel is competing against jumbo shells... I think I'd say double barrel is competing against stuffed shells, and stuffed shells is objectively better, then *maybe*, just *maybe* stuffed shells is competing against jumbo shells. But honestly, for raw damage, none of the boomstick's ocs compete with jumbo. If you want big single target damage, you go jumbo shells, no questions asked.
Side note: you never take the boomstick for the range, so I don't see much point in shaped shells. If you want range, M1000 is crazy accurate, and GK2 and Drak are more than accurate. You take boomstick either for special powder jump, high single target, or decent swarm clear with a couple shots, not for range.
Interesting, thanks for the comment. The way I see it is that double barrel is obviously not to be used on the hordes, this then puts it into large target killing. As you said yourself nothing competes with Jumbo on that front.
Range is an interesting one because a lot of players I spoke to (admittedly a lot play H6X2) appreciate the range and especially stun if the primary is down.
A few players gave Shaped Shells some love and rated it. The common opinion was if they have a good driller and engineer for horde clear, it can be great if you have 6 HVT (high value targets) M1000 can take 4, then shaped shells gets the other two. Could make the difference in a fight.
All depends on how you play, team composition and what your priorities are in that setup. All players agreed consistent stun at range for things like menaces was important to them and shaped shells does achieve that.
Take a shot every time he says "Jumbo Shells"
Is there a reason I shouldn't be taking additional Pellets and Damage Per Pellet mods?
Taking both is going to hurt your ammo but it depends what OC you are going to use. On Jumbo that will be overkill for the hordes. On Compact shells go for it!
Someone has commented they get good results with damage + pellets on Stuffed Shells. Something that did not feature in this video.
out of curiosity, now that double barrel has been buffed with an absolutely tremendous increase to its blast wave damage (which doubles when using the improved blast wave mod), how do you feel about it now? would you say it has use cases versus jumbo shells or is it still the inferior option?
Blast wave is still a risky business, especially on H5+ The ignite and fire spread still seems to be your best bet for hordes.
More details here - karl.gg/blog/33#/
Thank you for the link! I don't currently have the jumbo shells overclock, so would using a very slightly modified 12313 with double barrel be reasonably effective on lower difficulties (I typically don't play Haz 5 since I'm not very good at the game '^_^)?
@@devout-guardsman Shame about not having Jumbo. Your build sounds interesting and go with what works for you! You will be smashing those higher hazards in no time! Rock and stone!
I think there is something wrong with your "total ammo" numbers at 13:05 :
_AMM/PEL stuffed shells is 34ammo and not 32
_AMM/PEL jumbo shells is ok
_AMM/AMM jumbo shells is 36 ammo and not 34
_DAM/PEL compact shells is ok
The choice between AMM/AMM jumbo shells and DAM/PEL compact shells, is no clear cut. (But AMM/PEL stuffed shells still is the worse of the three)
This needs to be re-made, since it's very outdated now.
Ok but db makes you doom guy so checkmate
😄
@@GamingExistence its not helpful but its funny and drg is about making dummy builds that somehow work
@@madmonty4761 Yeah the meme builds can be fun and often work better than expected!
@@GamingExistence builds in drg are more fun than other horde shooters because its very simple to make one just use these upgrades and maybe a overclock
I hate DOT I hate DOT I hate DOT I hate DOT I hate DOT
fr tho
like ye sure u can wait 3 minutes for a grunt to burn and save 1 ammo but, imo, u're usually playing in multiplayer, and the other players dont always have the time to stop and look at grunts health to realise that they dont really have to shoot it or anything, usually they'll just shoot all the enemies that are alive
I'm normally the same with DOTS in games. Just kill it straight up! I think the thing to focus on is the potential for fire spread which spreads that DOT.
We may need to agree to disagree on your statement about not saving much ammo and the TTK. Fire spread is likely one of the most powerful mechanics in the game to assist your DPS and horde clear. The ammo saving and increased TTK can be quite crazy.
My blog on karlgg might help convert you:karl.gg/blog/33#/
@@GamingExistence still, ur teammates are likely to shoot the bugs anyways, so not much ammo is saved overall.
plus bugs on fire still crawl to u and try to kill u, so there're times when even in singleplayer u would have to straight up finish them not to die
@@benismann Absolutely true. But on average it's likely going to better and Dave you a lot of ammo. The additional DPS potential is crazy. Going to Inferno on the Breach Cutter was like turning on easy mode Vs the horde.
But this game can be played however you want to play and enjoy it. Especially in vanilla H5 where even builds that are lacking can do ok a decent amount of time and only struggle on really bad swarms or poor situations.
This was all just based on my research and simulations and something for you to think about. It sounds like you hate DOTS and won't be using it, that's fine 😊
@@GamingExistence yeah, those are fair points
in the end i'll just drop the bomb: i dont like born ready (im way too used to reloading manually so it just wastes a perk slot for me 90% of the time), so i actually have the born ready 5th mod on my boomstick
@@benismann That is quite a bomb! Can't leave home without Born ready 🙂 effectively increasing your DPS.
Yeah I like Electrical damage especially with all the buffs it's got. Well certain weapons getting more damage
FIRST
Great video