When looking back at Birds of Feather it makes Penguin fate in TNBA, becoming a mobster who owns the Iceberg Louge kind of ironic and also sad. In that episode, he wanted to be part of the rich class and become close with people like Veronica only to have his heart broke after figuring out she was just using him. Now in TNBA, he finally achives his goal, he is now rich and interact with all the Gotham elite but still just a criminal mastermind, manipulating others just like Veronica and Pierce did to him.
The big issue with Penguin is that his episodes felt like they were more about gimmicks than the character himself. An episode where Batman is blind, has to be looked after by kids, or details the history of how Bruce got the Batmobile. None of those had anything to do with Penguin himself; he was just slapped in because... because. Birds of a Feather was a stand-out because it actually was ABOUT Penguin and made him sympathetic in how no one wanted to give him a chance to repent.
@@DavidBContentExtravaganza3967 Yeah, but there's a right and a wrong way to handle it. I've Got Batman In My Basement was the wrong way. A good example of including a kid was Be a Clown.
My favorite version of Penguin in any cartoon is still the one from 2004's The Batman. Tom Kenny is my favorite Penguin voice with an iconic laugh. I love how Penguin is this entitled little gremlin who's trying to compensate for his lackluster family legacy. As silly as it is, I actually love watching Penguin using martial arts and I never get tired of it. Plus it's well contextualized, explaining he's been traveling through the orient, learning a few tricks while he was there. His two henchmen, the Kabuki Twins, are also really cool and threatening.
@@SerumLakedude you should ABSOLUTELY do videos on Batman 2004. It was a lot of people’s introductions to Batman and had its own very interesting takes on the characters. Like how Murakami and his writers de-glamorourized Scarface!
I wholeheartedly agree that the Penguin hasn't been treated with much respect since the 1940s. The Joker and Catwoman always seem to get the main focus, but I think we've reached the point where very little that's new can be done with their characterizations. (Of course, it's not that I don't want to see more done with them, but we should give them a break for a while.) I'll admit one thing: I always found Oswald Cobblepot a boring villain until Tim Burton turned him into a classic Gothic antihero (or a "satanic hero," to use the literary term). Even so, I didn't approve of the fact that a top hat, a beaked nose, and an arsenal of umbrella-weapons were the only things Danny DeVito's version had in common with the original character. I don't mind the Penguin being a sadist and a pervert, but if that's ALL he is then there's no way for him to develop as a character. So I applaud the '90s animated series for keeping just enough of DeVito's portrayal to make the Penguin effective. The animated Oswald is, like his BATMAN RETURNS counterpart, a genetic freak and even a bit of a gluttonous slob, but even so he defies the stereotype that ugly people or "monsters" have to be stupid, crude, and disgusting. This Penguin is appealing not just because he makes an effort to be less overtly nasty than Gotham's other villains, but because he tries to make himself respectable in other ways as well. He proves that people with deformities can be - at least on the surface - fully human, and even to some degree civilized. I appreciated the fact that he never indulged in self-pity or felt he had to apologize for who he was. Even his delusions of living in high society are appealing, because it's refreshing to see someone living in a happier Gotham than the one even Bruce Wayne can never psychologically escape from. It's sort of heartbreakingly charming that, in "Almost Got 'Im," he's the only male villain to treat Poison Ivy like a lady and not shower her with sexist/misogynistic abuse, even though Ivy is a vile, cruel witch who deserves every bit of scorn that can be heaped on her. (It's ironic that Oswald wants people to look beyond his "ugly" exterior, but at the same time idealizes women for their outward beauty, even though some of Gotham's most gorgeous women are morally grotesque.) Another improvement the animated show made to BATMAN RETURNS is that their Penguin is so comparatively well-behaved that we all WANTED to see him reform. He never tried to kill anyone unless he felt it was absolutely necessary, and while he did rob and steal he intended no malice in doing it. And in "Birds of a Feather," he was willing to clean up his act at least just enough to placate Batman. This provided an effective contrast to Killer Croc, another criminal "monster" who wanted to be accepted but showed himself to be undeserving of acceptance due to being a thoroughly selfish bastard with no qualms about betraying the few people who were kind to him if it was in his interest to do so. I am happy to see that, given his recent portrayals in "Gotham," THE BATMAN, and his new streaming series spun off from THE BATMAN, the Penguin is finally getting some vindication. It's just a shame it had to take so long. Even the Riddler got a ton of love long before Oswald did.
I loved his redesign in TNBA, primarily because I don't think Oswald should look as freakish as the Burton movie portrayed him. He's a thug with a sense of style and refinement. Him being far more traditionally criminal was a massive step up compared to how he was initially shown in the series.
@@SerumLake yeah because I prefer the original design because he looks more like a genuine supervillain and he along with a few other villains have so much potential that he could have appeared in the Justice league series.
Personally, I like a good mix of the monstrous and gentleman. Some elements of DeVito's mutated form, but compensates by being intelligent and presenting himself as a gentleman.
The Batman from like 2003-2004 is kinda underrated Batman show because it was made for more younger audiences compared to TBAS, however they had lot of fun with some characters. Penguin was actually good at fighting in that show, and it was always quite funny seeing him do martial arts. They also had lot of fun with some other characters.
I’m a fan of the gentlemen criminal characterization btas pulled from and I think it actually works quite well, being juxtaposed with the deformed freak element from Returns. I don’t know if an episode like Birds or the Feather would work as well with a more traditional design
@@SerumLake frankly i see this as a failure of the writing staff. okay you have some limitations. RUN WITH THEM. We see this so much nowadays where writers aren't happy shoe stringed into canon evens of characters. Hell mark Hamill state to Rian that Luke would not act the way he did in the last jedi but Rian wanted his way and we see the result. either adapt your idea to match was is established for the character or do a new character.
I am really annoyed that the writers neglected Penguin and Riddler. They are two of Bruce's biggest foes after Joker and Two-face, and they get treated like after thoughts. They should put more effort into Penguin, like delve into his backstory. I know they dudbt want to show scenes of birds getting murdered but they Could have worked around it. For example, maybe he grew up poor and lived with his struggling mum. He was constantly bullied because of his appearance and because his made him carry his umbrella. He admired the rich and wealthy and wanted to be part of high society. His turn to crime was out of desperation and to initially support his mum before she passed away. I always preferred Penguin as a master thief and criminal mastermind, instead of the boring business man version we get these days. I know it logically makes sense for Oswald to go legit but he isn't as fun anymore.
The fact Penguin admired rich and wealthy is refernce in the series, in the episode "Birds of Feather", where Oswald just wanted to reform and be part of the rich class, only to be rejected, but I agree the writers didn't explore much of this side of Penguin backstory, which is sad since it actually shows how, much like many bat-rogues, he also a reflection of Bruce, a representation of what Batman could become if he use his money and wealthy for selfish goals. However, I think he becoming a evil business man in the series works as ironic fate: As I said, in "Birds of Feather" he wanted to be part of wealthy class, only to be rejected and use by people like Veronica, and now in TNBA, he's finally achive his goal, he went legit, owns the Iceberg Louge, interacts with the rich people... and still criminal and using others for his schemes. In some ways, he become exactly like Veronica and Pierce.
The Penguin you've described is pretty much the one from the show *Gotham* , perfectly played by Robin Lord Taylor... I can't wait for the new Penguin show taking place in "The Batman" universe, but they're really going to have to be imaginative in order not to do a *Gotham* re-tell.
I think the Penguin is fine as mysterious and with no backstory in the animated series and just turn to crime for a living, nothing else. But yeah more effort into him to appear more to commit crimes as a master thief and criminal mastermind would have done just fine. I like him as he is in the show.
The Writer's Bible reveals a bit of backstory for this take on Penguin. He was sheltered by his mother, who owned a pet store, and was picked on for his avian appearance. By his late twenties he was still working at the pet store when it was suddenly ransacked by a street gang. Many animals were hurt and it led his mom to have a stroke. Infuriated, Oswald used the shop's insurance money to pay a rival gang to wreak vengeance on the crooks. They were crushed and his new allies became one of the city's most profitable gangs, giving Penguin control over the whole neighborhood.
I agree. They made the Penguin too comical a character, when he was a vicious remorseless criminal who used blackmail, extortion, manipulation, and occasionally murder to achieve his ends. Even Batman admitted in one issue that the Penguin may be more intelligent than he is, when the Penguin always seemed to be one step ahead of him. It was Batman's relentless determination that allowed him to finally bring down the Penguin. The Penguin is a tragic character, but he is also a remorseless murderer and thug when push comes to shove, which makes him extremely dangerous, because people underestimate him. Thanks for making a video giving the Penguin the credit he always deserved as a classic villain.
Paul Williams is a true talent too, so it's a shame he didn't get to do anythig truly unhinged with Penguin. I will always hear his voice in my head for the character.
This is true. There's so much they could've done with this character. And we didn't really get comic book accurate penguin until the new adventures of batman the animated series ended..
While I enjoy other actors in the role, Paul Williams will always be my favorite person to play Cobblepot. His sophisticated gentleman characterization really makes Penguin standout amongst the other villains and Williams captured that to a T.
I wouldn't put ANY of Penguin's episodes amongst the "worst". I think they're all middle-to-upper episodes and Birds of a Feather is my third favorite episode of the series. They're all way too underrated. Honestly the only real issue I've ever seen with Penguin episodes are the animators being inconsistent with his size. It's a shame too that they struggled against the Returns design because that's far and away my favorite Penguin aesthetic and it's how I personally became interested in the character
Suggestion for future video: Catwoman in Batman TAS Just like the Penguin, I don't think the series did a good job in their portrayal of Selina. Sometimes it felt the writers didn't know what they wanted to do with her (was she a villain? an anti hero? a damsel in distress), plus making her into a animal activist just felt like they were just copying Poison Ivy motivation, replacing plants with animals.
@@zemox2534 Yeah, but she didn't had much episodes focusing on her and while I wasn't a fan of Selina being animal activist, at least it made her sympathetic thief. Now in TNBA she is just thief for no other reason except love for stealing, instead of having a sympathetic goal. Even her relationship with Batman didn't had the same emotion and flirting dynamic as before, with Batman now more distant from others and he and Selina cleary had already accepted that they could never work out.
@@alexandrefrauches132 Why does she have to have a sympathetic goal, though? Committing crimes because she genuinely enjoys it is perfectly fine motivation (and fits her "literal cat burglar" motif), and it makes her relationship with Batman far more interesting than if she's a fellow vigilante with different morals. And for what it's worth "You Scratch My Back" is maybe the best Catwoman episode? She's flirting, she's double-crossing, it's all aimed at Nightwing but it's the stuff her character is best at.
Actually, the Gotham Adventures tie-in comic's fourth issue does show her B:TAS-to-TNBA fall from grace in full detail. In short, she changed her look and got alienated from the Bat by scratching a corrupt make-up company headwoman pretty badly due to said company making their cosmetics out of mistreated stray animals.
I like the way they worked Penguin in the New Batman Adventures, reverting to their original design choice and having him as a "legitimate" businessman running his underground business at the Lounge
Penguin is my favorite Bat villain and they really did waste him in BTAS, but Birds of a Feather is one of the best episodes of the entire series in my opinion, so at least he has that.
As good of an episode “Birds of a Feather” is, I can’t help but be a bit disappointed by how toothless it actually is compared to the story it was based on. Because the original short comic (taking up only half of a Valentine’s Day special,) absolutely shocked me when I finally got around to reading it by being a *scathing* condemnation of how society lets down former felons after their release. It’s also a great showing for Jason (for what little page-time he gets) as someone from a lower-class background who has himself been driven to crime out of desperation in the past, and is the *only* person to take Penguin’s side in the “He’s served his time, shouldn’t we be giving him our full support at reintegrating into society?” argument before the tragic finale forces Bruce to see he was wrong in how he treated Oswald. Short, still a little silly, and depressingly still relevant nearly 40yrs later. It’s called “Love Bird,” and I *highly* recommend it.
Yeah one of the few knocks I had on the series was the treatment of the penguin. He was almost always a secondary character that was sparsely used. Though I do think Birds of a Feather is an underrated gem as it gave him a ton of character depth. Also the episode where Batman is blind if serviceable ( though you could've plugged any villain into that role) and the Batmobile episode is fun
If I recall correctly, the later 'The Batman' series portrayed Penquin as a fallen Socialite, desperate to get back on the social standing he was used to, hence all the thievery and desire to surround himself with the Upper Crust. Also, since the Arkham Games, I much more prefer a Cockney Oswald.
I believe the ideal for The Penguin is for him to act as the head of the "greedy mob boss" section of characters, like Thorne amd Boyle, the peak face of that archetype of adversaries within Batman as a franchise. Batman as a series really does need those lesser generic crime bosses to truly function, so having a character that can embody that part of the franchise when it comes to major Riddler/Joker "character" villains can have a lot of value. Compare it to how Kingpin is handled in Daredevil/Spider-Man, he's always been the same type of character as him, just needs the opportunity to be treated with the same level of oomph.
Penguin has never been my favourite Batman villain as i always looked at him as one of the silliest even though he's up there with The Joker, i liked the version they came up with later on in the comics where he's the owner of the Iceberg Lounge and portrayed as a crime boss who ran his criminal activities who went under the name as Cobblepot. His TNBA redesign was a nice cool nod to the iconic Dick Sprang design but i didn't really care for the character as i never saw him as a physical threat to Batman, he was great in the team up episodes but the ones where he's the main villains were not great.
Honestly. It's ashame that the Penguin got this treatment. Cobblepot had a lot of opportunities for his episodes but it was just the fact that all of them didn't come out well I don't blame them for having to debunk em.
Is it weird I like this first TAS design more? It really isn't as freaky as the Tim Burton design, and I like that it feels like he has a lot of fun doing his heists and fights with Batman even if he does loose in the end. Its kind of fitting he gets voiced by Tom Kenny in the next series considering Ice King, though his personality was less likeable there, feeling more one dimensional like a spoiled rich kid in parallel to Bruce Wayne rather than an old school gentleman villain.
I wish that Batman: Caped Crusader could make a Better Penguin based on Both Batman Return, Batman TAS, and the Batman Version. Using the More Slight Design of TNBA and the BTAS look, his backstory could be Explored with Falcone and he may could have a Relationship with Bruce Wayne, you know like a Two Face cause it could be make him more Personal to Bats.
Yeah, I really liked the Grant origin. He also did a pretty good origin for The Clayfaces. I like a more vicious (But not totally sociopathic .) Penguin.
I tend to look at this version very fondly. I think having him look like the Tim Burton version and having his personality like in the comics worked out well. This Oswald Cobblepot comes off as sophisticated, educated man who want nothing more then the respect of Gothams elites but as we saw in the episode "Birds Of A Feather" he is never accepted do do his appearance. This frustrates him and drives his criminal mentality. He knows the no matter how many fancy paintings or antiques he steals, what top hats or monocles he wears or how gentlemanly he act in spite of his looks, he will never be seen as one of them. So he lashes out by becoming what they see him as. The Penguin. He is an individual with an inner turmoil much like Bruce Wayne and Batman but in this case its Oswald Chesterfeild Cobblepot of high society vs The Penguin, the viscous gangster.
It is great too see Oswalds evolution from a low tier thief to now portrayed as a weapons dealer/club owner type mafia boss. We can't wait for you to make Scarecrow 😊
It's sad to hear that people hated the BTAS design for the Penguin when it's actually my favorite. Super disappointed to know that they didn't seem to like him
That's because he was much more gimmicky in the Adam West series, while the animated series wanted him to be the gentleman of crime which really sanitizes the gimmicky Penguin.
Some of the best Episodes of BTAS were the ones where the villains are trying to give up villainy. Episodes like Birds of a Feather, Harley's Holiday, and Second Chance, where they're shown to be giving being "normal" an honest attempt, only for something to push them back over the edge. Penguin from learning the woman he'd honestly fallen in love with mocked him behind his back. Harley having a panic attack in the mall and slipping back into the Harley Quinn persona while running from a security guard. Two-face having his goons attack Harvey before he gets a surgery to restore his face and hopefully bury the two face personality for good. These episodes show that these are deeply broken people who need help, not monsters like Joker who just need to be locked up.
Definitely the best version of Oswald Cobblepot is the one from the Arkham games. He’s a fence dealer, criminal mastermind, devilishly charming, witty, and sometimes funny. Also love his backstory as his family were rivals to the Waynes, but lost everything. Plus, I gotta love the accent Nolan North puts on.
I had found it surprising to find out that Tom Kenny, the famous voice of Spongebob Squarepants, The Mayor of Townsville & The Narrator from PPG, Spyro from the Spyro games, Val Hallen from The Justice Friends segments of Dexter's Lab, and others, voiced The Penguin in The Batman!!!
I really like the Voice Actor they got for The Penguin. I also liked they used the Character design from the movie. I agree they didn't use him enough. However, I kind of like that they made him a bit of a nerd of the underworld. They leaned into his inferiority complex. So they kept his intelligence, but leaned into his goofiness. Also, they probably also had more studio input on his use, like "make him take control of the batmobile like he did in the movie..." But, if you could do a story using the scarecrow, the Joker, Two-face, Croc, or create a character like Baby Doll, I can understand why they utilized him less. I just hate how they treated Croc after his first couple of appearances. His first outing was quite menacing.
Penguin works best as a crime boss than a petty criminal. Sure, he was more of a supporting villain than the main threat in the new adventures of Batman, but that is a fitting role for a crime boss who lets others do his dirty work for him.
@@SerumLakeMaybe but the crime boss version is still boring to me. At least as a master theif, he is more fun to watch and his plans are more inventive and elaborate.
@@zemox2534 It would be nice to see Penguin trying to seize control of Thorne's empire and make it a haven for all supervillains, marking the fall of the mafia and the rise of the costume criminals.
I personally liked Danny DeVito as the Penguin, but, I think I'd of liked him better without the Tim Burton. If they could of just made him an ultra cunning business tycoon that perhaps was more of an existential threat to Bruce Wayne and Wayne Industries, It would of made for a much more interesting engagement where Batman has to try and act as more of a spy and have to wrestle with his own moral code to protect his own holdings.
I wish this version of the Penguin could have became the Mayor of Gotham and see how that would have played out for a season Or 2 I really like paul Williams as his voice actor here gave him some class and sophistiction
Imo, Birds Of A Feather is like a better take on Batman Returns. It retains the angle of Oswald wanting to be accepted & welcomed into society but turning against it when he realizes he's just being used & mocked, just without the bile-spewing, the neverending sexual innuendos, & the infanticide.
I kinda like to imagine Cobblepot as a reflection of Bruce Wayne, or at least what Bruce Wayne could have been if Bruce had a slightly different upbringing, they’re both the children of wealthy elites who are quite intelligent and driven.
I personally really like the Penguin and his design in the animated series is one I actually like more then the redesign they gave him later, though it does suck that they didn’t really do anything all that good with him in most of the episodes he features prominently in
The episode “Blind as a Bat”, intentions unknown, builds on a one shot children’s book called “the Warhawk” by Ladybird Books. The plot is similar in that Penguin steals a high class plane and Batman must get it back. The story is closer akin to a 60s Batman story, and would definitely need building on to be a tv episode, but the similarities are there. You should be able to find a read-along version here on TH-cam. I do think Penguin is a bit run-of-the-mill, and lacks any real drive before his reboot, and works better as a secondary rather than a main. But still, his episodes (except his debut) are worth rewatching.
One of my favorite depictions of Penguin is from any of the Arkham games he's in. Design wise, he's something of a semi-realistic cross between the original BtAS design and his Danny Devito appearance. He's shown to be excessively cruel and deadly, but not so smart and definitely not physically strong enough as to pose a serious threat to Batman. His main power comes from how he uses a mix of intimidation and compensation to "encourage" loyalty in his men as well as just how much he gets off on being a sadistic madman; choosing to make any who slight him wish for death rather than ever outright killing them.
The Penguin, huh? Well he may have been a great evil villain, it's hard to take him seriously sometimes because his introduction literally has him squawking.😅🐧
If i made a More Censored Origin for Penguin, he could be Trick by his only Friends (who is a Girl) to keep Penguins Birds with her, but she Cook All his Birds into Food and gave his Beloved Penguin Pet to her Dog. Now with Vengeance Penguin Embarrass her in her Talent Show, by making some Pigeons throw (Glitch) at her. Censored Enough?
Penguin was always My Personal Bat-Rogue. The 90's Toon did Not handle him well, at All! I think He could be done well. Burgess Meredith's portryal is about the best, and what Aland Grant did whim him was best in the comics. I would Love to see a Straight and Threatening Version done by Burgess. HE could have made the Penguin a Real Threat!
the design was fine, both classical and has his sophisticated wits . its just that he was mostly misused. penguin is almost on par with the riddler on intellect but has all the ruthlessness of a gangster. its just BTAS really coudnt work with that. in many ways, the kid friendlyness of the show worked really well with joker , despite bringing down a level from a force of unstoppable chaos to a more mundane humorous threat (think the episode with the irs or the one where he bullies that one ordinary guy), his clown gimmick fits decently with his cartoonification. Not so with penguin. the best penguin balances the gangster with the sophisticated gentleman
What I love about Birds of a Feather, is the irony is completely lost on Penguin. He wants to bluff himself into a higher social standing, and those two socialites end up using him to bluff themselves into a higher social standing. It's especially neat how they used his own motivation against him like that.
The Penguin was wasted in the show, but then the show failed to really capitizse upon the underworld aspect of Gotham, they hinted at it but never truly capitizse upon it, the Penguin would fit right in there as one of the mob bosses but then I think the Joker would make for a dangerous gangster in the city underworld, but then Warner despite the potential just keep wasting the Gotham universe by denying a live action Batman TV show that has Batman, it could make for a great crime thriller, see the various mob bosses existing and then the rising of the next generation in the form of Joker, Penguin, Two face, each of them rising up to overthrow or kill the previous bosses
Honestly I can see him later evolving into somewhat of a mafia boss in the batman series. Like say he has a good side and a bad side but often if you brush him the wrong way he'll rough ya up a lot. Like say how as Batman ends certain events he comes more into the picture into something that should try to be avoided when possible. Though can't be avoided as Batman is constantly trying to end crime within the city something he doesn't take kindly to.
I really want a comic based on Red Robin taking down some “suddenly” successful gangs and tracks down that the culprit behind it all was the newly elected mayor of Gotham Oswald Cobblepot. I love the idea that one of the most corrupted aristocrats becomes the leader of Gotham. And the since he knows the criminal underground so well he starts to enact policies that dismantle them quickly and effectively putting this grey area on of whether or not Red Robin should bring The Penguin to justice.
I think the most important thing that should be leaned into with penguins character is being the victim of bullying for his appearance and to emphasize that they should not only have them be bullied, but have anyone around him family members friends otherwise do nothing about it because in their words, the bullies are right that he is ugly
I’ve always found Batman the animated series struggle with writing villains that were based on intelligence instead of strength a little weird Whenever I think of Batman, I don’t think of someone with impeccable strength. He’s strong sure, but I always focused more on his usage of tools, weapons, etc as his strong suit, along with his, well, intellect I’ve always more enjoyed villains that matched Batman’s intellect rather than the more brute force type of villains like killer croc (not that he’s stupid he’s just not as intelligent as the others) It actually is one of the things that makes me not want to watch the show, to me it just doesn’t work. It’s a good show but it just doesn’t feel right to me
to quote a line that best describe the penguin; "penguin always get the last laugh, but the thing with people who get the last laugh... They always laugh alone"
Penguins wasted potential in the og BTAS/NBA is a big reason why I’m optimistic about The Caped Crusader. Given how it’s got a lot of the original writers from BTAS and the shows style seems to be leaning towards the og 30s comics, now would be the perfect opportunity to give their original 1930s inspired vision of the penguin another try without the constraints put on via movie synergy. Edit: (SPOLIER) sooo CC Penguin was a departure from the comic version somewhat, but she absolutely trumps BTAS Penguin as a villain and genuine threat.
It's not just Penguin, I also felt Bane and Killer Croc were also the worst depictions of their characters. Bane had very little appearances and Killer Croc's character was reduced to a backstabbing dumb brute.
I have a theory about their interpretation of Bane and Killer Croc, and to a lesser extent, the Ventriloquist and Scarface. I’ve made a note to talk about it in a future video!
The Penguin is the most powerful and cunning Batman and DC villain. He murdered his siblings, father, other male relatives, and doted on his mother the only person who loved him. As a young man he worked for his mother's family a lesser known crime family and took control of it after murdering his uncle. After taking control he grew the syndicate and this all happened before the 1930s. Penguin is in his 50s when he first met batman in the 1940s so he was born in the 1890s.
U know, i actually kinda like his batman animated series design, He looks kinda... cute? Less freaky? Idk, its one of my favourite designs 😌 Dont judge me plz, im not over 18 yet so i haven't seen everything 😅
Ah, another one where I like the character well enough, but there's only one episode where they do anything with him that I actually really like. Birds of a Feather; great episode. It sounds like studio mandates were more at fault for this one, though. It's funny that they kept insisting on making Penguin more like the movie, because long term, the movie ended up being an embarrassment for WB that made them turn the entire movie franchise 180.
Unpopular opinion, I’m not really a fan of Birds of a Feather, I don’t really see Penguin being sympathetic, and honestly I thought it was weird that Veronica was using Penguin and by the end she’s like “I dud genuinely grew fond of you”, if the writers were gonna go that route then they should have shown it, possibly have Veronica confront Piers about their little “joke” saying that it’s going too far, especially if in later episodes she became a bit nicer…I like to think that she learned her lesson from leading on The Penguin and cut ties with Piers as he’s never mentioned again, and by the end of the episode, you can see Veronica’s look of regret as if she’s saying “what have I done?” But that’s just my opinion
In the writers' defense, even I don't know how to define the quintessential Penguin. Wouldn't call the far more interesting iterations from The Batman 2004 and the Arkhamverse that either. Either way things go, the DCAU Penguin at best didn't overstay his welcome, and I really hope he finally fell from karmic houdini grace offscreen before the Return of the Joker flashbacks. Addendum: Oh, and I prefer his TNBA look being plastic surgery caused by Batgirl absconding him off a chopper, NOT by The Adventures Continue's Jason Todd.
Why would Batgirl do that? That sounds too brutal for her. For me the definitive Penguin is a criminal mastermind with a great intellect and a gentlemen side. Someone who is always underestimated because of his appearance but he always beats his rivals with his cunning mind. He is a gentleman of crime . At least he was until dc turned him into a boring crime boss.
@@zemox2534 She may have slipped. After all, said incident may have happened sometime after Dick Grayson left, and she may have still been rattled by taking up his mantle as Batman's sidekick. Other than that, can highly sympathize with how you view Oswald.
Birds of a Feather is Phenomenal though but the rest isnt very good. I liked his cameo when Batman is looking for Two-face and he visits him in prison and Penguin tries to kill him with his birds help.
When looking back at Birds of Feather it makes Penguin fate in TNBA, becoming a mobster who owns the Iceberg Louge kind of ironic and also sad. In that episode, he wanted to be part of the rich class and become close with people like Veronica only to have his heart broke after figuring out she was just using him. Now in TNBA, he finally achives his goal, he is now rich and interact with all the Gotham elite but still just a criminal mastermind, manipulating others just like Veronica and Pierce did to him.
That’s a very good point, thanks for sharing it.
Those who are abused go on to become the abuser.
Birds of a Feather is one of the worst BTAS episodes in my opinion
The big issue with Penguin is that his episodes felt like they were more about gimmicks than the character himself. An episode where Batman is blind, has to be looked after by kids, or details the history of how Bruce got the Batmobile. None of those had anything to do with Penguin himself; he was just slapped in because... because. Birds of a Feather was a stand-out because it actually was ABOUT Penguin and made him sympathetic in how no one wanted to give him a chance to repent.
I say something very similar in this week’s video about I’ve Got Batman in my Basement
The reason the creators hated I've Got Batman In My Basement was because they were hoping to avoid incompetent villains beaten by kids.
Though it is nice to have kids appear in episodes sometimes, especially when encountering villains. Imagine if they encountered Joker.
@@DavidBContentExtravaganza3967I just turned 29 and if I ran into Joker I'd crap my pants.
@@dandycrow2821 Tim was the only kid Robin in the DCAU. Dick was a teenager when he was Robin.
@@DavidBContentExtravaganza3967 Yeah, but there's a right and a wrong way to handle it. I've Got Batman In My Basement was the wrong way. A good example of including a kid was Be a Clown.
Funny thing is, I love that lime where he g,es in the house and says “How these commoners live!”
My favorite version of Penguin in any cartoon is still the one from 2004's The Batman. Tom Kenny is my favorite Penguin voice with an iconic laugh. I love how Penguin is this entitled little gremlin who's trying to compensate for his lackluster family legacy. As silly as it is, I actually love watching Penguin using martial arts and I never get tired of it. Plus it's well contextualized, explaining he's been traveling through the orient, learning a few tricks while he was there. His two henchmen, the Kabuki Twins, are also really cool and threatening.
I'm glad that they decided to do something different with that show. I may not particularly care for it, but they were right to try new things.
Him being an "acrofatic" sure is one thing a quintessential Penguin should be, just like Hugo Strange.
The Batman Penquin is basically Batman's Flintheart Glomgold.
@@SerumLakedude you should ABSOLUTELY do videos on Batman 2004. It was a lot of people’s introductions to Batman and had its own very interesting takes on the characters. Like how Murakami and his writers de-glamorourized Scarface!
It was my introduction to batman @@LenOnTheDoor0000
I wholeheartedly agree that the Penguin hasn't been treated with much respect since the 1940s. The Joker and Catwoman always seem to get the main focus, but I think we've reached the point where very little that's new can be done with their characterizations. (Of course, it's not that I don't want to see more done with them, but we should give them a break for a while.)
I'll admit one thing: I always found Oswald Cobblepot a boring villain until Tim Burton turned him into a classic Gothic antihero (or a "satanic hero," to use the literary term). Even so, I didn't approve of the fact that a top hat, a beaked nose, and an arsenal of umbrella-weapons were the only things Danny DeVito's version had in common with the original character. I don't mind the Penguin being a sadist and a pervert, but if that's ALL he is then there's no way for him to develop as a character.
So I applaud the '90s animated series for keeping just enough of DeVito's portrayal to make the Penguin effective. The animated Oswald is, like his BATMAN RETURNS counterpart, a genetic freak and even a bit of a gluttonous slob, but even so he defies the stereotype that ugly people or "monsters" have to be stupid, crude, and disgusting. This Penguin is appealing not just because he makes an effort to be less overtly nasty than Gotham's other villains, but because he tries to make himself respectable in other ways as well. He proves that people with deformities can be - at least on the surface - fully human, and even to some degree civilized. I appreciated the fact that he never indulged in self-pity or felt he had to apologize for who he was. Even his delusions of living in high society are appealing, because it's refreshing to see someone living in a happier Gotham than the one even Bruce Wayne can never psychologically escape from. It's sort of heartbreakingly charming that, in "Almost Got 'Im," he's the only male villain to treat Poison Ivy like a lady and not shower her with sexist/misogynistic abuse, even though Ivy is a vile, cruel witch who deserves every bit of scorn that can be heaped on her. (It's ironic that Oswald wants people to look beyond his "ugly" exterior, but at the same time idealizes women for their outward beauty, even though some of Gotham's most gorgeous women are morally grotesque.)
Another improvement the animated show made to BATMAN RETURNS is that their Penguin is so comparatively well-behaved that we all WANTED to see him reform. He never tried to kill anyone unless he felt it was absolutely necessary, and while he did rob and steal he intended no malice in doing it. And in "Birds of a Feather," he was willing to clean up his act at least just enough to placate Batman. This provided an effective contrast to Killer Croc, another criminal "monster" who wanted to be accepted but showed himself to be undeserving of acceptance due to being a thoroughly selfish bastard with no qualms about betraying the few people who were kind to him if it was in his interest to do so.
I am happy to see that, given his recent portrayals in "Gotham," THE BATMAN, and his new streaming series spun off from THE BATMAN, the Penguin is finally getting some vindication. It's just a shame it had to take so long. Even the Riddler got a ton of love long before Oswald did.
It's called sophistication which Penguin has for his villainy. Some villains has that to portrayed their evil deeds. I like him as he is in the show.
I loved his redesign in TNBA, primarily because I don't think Oswald should look as freakish as the Burton movie portrayed him. He's a thug with a sense of style and refinement. Him being far more traditionally criminal was a massive step up compared to how he was initially shown in the series.
I can see where you’re coming from, but I will always love the original design. That’s the power of nostalgia, I guess!
@@SerumLake yeah because I prefer the original design because he looks more like a genuine supervillain and he along with a few other villains have so much potential that he could have appeared in the Justice league series.
@@SerumLakeI like mutant penguin
Personally, I like a good mix of the monstrous and gentleman. Some elements of DeVito's mutated form, but compensates by being intelligent and presenting himself as a gentleman.
The Batman from like 2003-2004 is kinda underrated Batman show because it was made for more younger audiences compared to TBAS, however they had lot of fun with some characters. Penguin was actually good at fighting in that show, and it was always quite funny seeing him do martial arts. They also had lot of fun with some other characters.
I’m a fan of the gentlemen criminal characterization btas pulled from and I think it actually works quite well, being juxtaposed with the deformed freak element from Returns. I don’t know if an episode like Birds or the Feather would work as well with a more traditional design
I feel the same way
@@SerumLake frankly i see this as a failure of the writing staff. okay you have some limitations. RUN WITH THEM. We see this so much nowadays where writers aren't happy shoe stringed into canon evens of characters. Hell mark Hamill state to Rian that Luke would not act the way he did in the last jedi but Rian wanted his way and we see the result. either adapt your idea to match was is established for the character or do a new character.
I am really annoyed that the writers neglected Penguin and Riddler. They are two of Bruce's biggest foes after Joker and Two-face, and they get treated like after thoughts.
They should put more effort into Penguin, like delve into his backstory. I know they dudbt want to show scenes of birds getting murdered but they Could have worked around it. For example, maybe he grew up poor and lived with his struggling mum. He was constantly bullied because of his appearance and because his made him carry his umbrella. He admired the rich and wealthy and wanted to be part of high society. His turn to crime was out of desperation and to initially support his mum before she passed away.
I always preferred Penguin as a master thief and criminal mastermind, instead of the boring business man version we get these days. I know it logically makes sense for Oswald to go legit but he isn't as fun anymore.
The fact Penguin admired rich and wealthy is refernce in the series, in the episode "Birds of Feather", where Oswald just wanted to reform and be part of the rich class, only to be rejected, but I agree the writers didn't explore much of this side of Penguin backstory, which is sad since it actually shows how, much like many bat-rogues, he also a reflection of Bruce, a representation of what Batman could become if he use his money and wealthy for selfish goals.
However, I think he becoming a evil business man in the series works as ironic fate: As I said, in "Birds of Feather" he wanted to be part of wealthy class, only to be rejected and use by people like Veronica, and now in TNBA, he's finally achive his goal, he went legit, owns the Iceberg Louge, interacts with the rich people... and still criminal and using others for his schemes. In some ways, he become exactly like Veronica and Pierce.
The Penguin you've described is pretty much the one from the show *Gotham* , perfectly played by Robin Lord Taylor...
I can't wait for the new Penguin show taking place in "The Batman" universe, but they're really going to have to be imaginative in order not to do a *Gotham* re-tell.
Yeah I think he and the Riddler have so much potential especially in the Justice league
I think the Penguin is fine as mysterious and with no backstory in the animated series and just turn to crime for a living, nothing else. But yeah more effort into him to appear more to commit crimes as a master thief and criminal mastermind would have done just fine. I like him as he is in the show.
@@DavidBContentExtravaganza3967Me too.
I liked him in Birds of a Feather and The Mechanic but they could have done more with him.
Yes and especially in Justice league
The Writer's Bible reveals a bit of backstory for this take on Penguin.
He was sheltered by his mother, who owned a pet store, and was picked on for his avian appearance. By his late twenties he was still working at the pet store when it was suddenly ransacked by a street gang. Many animals were hurt and it led his mom to have a stroke. Infuriated, Oswald used the shop's insurance money to pay a rival gang to wreak vengeance on the crooks. They were crushed and his new allies became one of the city's most profitable gangs, giving Penguin control over the whole neighborhood.
Really?
@@Quackervoltz Indeed!
[There's a PLETHORA of information on all these characters the show never says. You'd be surprised what you'll find.]
I agree. They made the Penguin too comical a character, when he was a vicious remorseless criminal who used blackmail, extortion, manipulation, and occasionally murder to achieve his ends. Even Batman admitted in one issue that the Penguin may be more intelligent than he is, when the Penguin always seemed to be one step ahead of him. It was Batman's relentless determination that allowed him to finally bring down the Penguin.
The Penguin is a tragic character, but he is also a remorseless murderer and thug when push comes to shove, which makes him extremely dangerous, because people underestimate him.
Thanks for making a video giving the Penguin the credit he always deserved as a classic villain.
Paul Williams is a true talent too, so it's a shame he didn't get to do anythig truly unhinged with Penguin. I will always hear his voice in my head for the character.
This is true. There's so much they could've done with this character. And we didn't really get comic book accurate penguin until the new adventures of batman the animated series ended..
And even then, they still wasted Him. The Batman used him more than TAS
While I enjoy other actors in the role, Paul Williams will always be my favorite person to play Cobblepot.
His sophisticated gentleman characterization really makes Penguin standout amongst the other villains and Williams captured that to a T.
Paul Williams was also Swan in Brian DePalma's Phantom of the Paradise, which celebrates its 50th anniversary this Halloween.
I wouldn't put ANY of Penguin's episodes amongst the "worst". I think they're all middle-to-upper episodes and Birds of a Feather is my third favorite episode of the series. They're all way too underrated. Honestly the only real issue I've ever seen with Penguin episodes are the animators being inconsistent with his size. It's a shame too that they struggled against the Returns design because that's far and away my favorite Penguin aesthetic and it's how I personally became interested in the character
Regardless of the quality of writing, I think Paul Williams's performance as The Penguin is fantastic.
Suggestion for future video: Catwoman in Batman TAS
Just like the Penguin, I don't think the series did a good job in their portrayal of Selina. Sometimes it felt the writers didn't know what they wanted to do with her (was she a villain? an anti hero? a damsel in distress), plus making her into a animal activist just felt like they were just copying Poison Ivy motivation, replacing plants with animals.
Well, they made her act like her comic counterpart near the end of the series.
@@zemox2534 Yeah, but she didn't had much episodes focusing on her and while I wasn't a fan of Selina being animal activist, at least it made her sympathetic thief. Now in TNBA she is just thief for no other reason except love for stealing, instead of having a sympathetic goal.
Even her relationship with Batman didn't had the same emotion and flirting dynamic as before, with Batman now more distant from others and he and Selina cleary had already accepted that they could never work out.
@@alexandrefrauches132 Why does she have to have a sympathetic goal, though? Committing crimes because she genuinely enjoys it is perfectly fine motivation (and fits her "literal cat burglar" motif), and it makes her relationship with Batman far more interesting than if she's a fellow vigilante with different morals.
And for what it's worth "You Scratch My Back" is maybe the best Catwoman episode? She's flirting, she's double-crossing, it's all aimed at Nightwing but it's the stuff her character is best at.
Actually, the Gotham Adventures tie-in comic's fourth issue does show her B:TAS-to-TNBA fall from grace in full detail.
In short, she changed her look and got alienated from the Bat by scratching a corrupt make-up company headwoman pretty badly due to said company making their cosmetics out of mistreated stray animals.
I like the way they worked Penguin in the New Batman Adventures, reverting to their original design choice and having him as a "legitimate" businessman running his underground business at the Lounge
Penguin is my favorite Bat villain and they really did waste him in BTAS, but Birds of a Feather is one of the best episodes of the entire series in my opinion, so at least he has that.
As a bird lover, I thoroughly am on the side of the penguin when it comes to his bullies.
As good of an episode “Birds of a Feather” is, I can’t help but be a bit disappointed by how toothless it actually is compared to the story it was based on. Because the original short comic (taking up only half of a Valentine’s Day special,) absolutely shocked me when I finally got around to reading it by being a *scathing* condemnation of how society lets down former felons after their release.
It’s also a great showing for Jason (for what little page-time he gets) as someone from a lower-class background who has himself been driven to crime out of desperation in the past, and is the *only* person to take Penguin’s side in the “He’s served his time, shouldn’t we be giving him our full support at reintegrating into society?” argument before the tragic finale forces Bruce to see he was wrong in how he treated Oswald.
Short, still a little silly, and depressingly still relevant nearly 40yrs later. It’s called “Love Bird,” and I *highly* recommend it.
Yeah one of the few knocks I had on the series was the treatment of the penguin. He was almost always a secondary character that was sparsely used. Though I do think Birds of a Feather is an underrated gem as it gave him a ton of character depth. Also the episode where Batman is blind if serviceable ( though you could've plugged any villain into that role) and the Batmobile episode is fun
Love what the audio adventures are doing with the penguin. Bobby Moinahan makes balances camp and cruel perfectly.(which that shows does alot)
The Batman (2004) makes the penguin Bruce Wayne's and Alfred enemy as well. "If there is one person i hate more than Batmam its Wayne".
If I recall correctly, the later 'The Batman' series portrayed Penquin as a fallen Socialite, desperate to get back on the social standing he was used to, hence all the thievery and desire to surround himself with the Upper Crust.
Also, since the Arkham Games, I much more prefer a Cockney Oswald.
I believe the ideal for The Penguin is for him to act as the head of the "greedy mob boss" section of characters, like Thorne amd Boyle, the peak face of that archetype of adversaries within Batman as a franchise.
Batman as a series really does need those lesser generic crime bosses to truly function, so having a character that can embody that part of the franchise when it comes to major Riddler/Joker "character" villains can have a lot of value.
Compare it to how Kingpin is handled in Daredevil/Spider-Man, he's always been the same type of character as him, just needs the opportunity to be treated with the same level of oomph.
The Ideal Penguin is Danny DeVitos Penguin!
Penguin has never been my favourite Batman villain as i always looked at him as one of the silliest even though he's up there with The Joker, i liked the version they came up with later on in the comics where he's the owner of the Iceberg Lounge and portrayed as a crime boss who ran his criminal activities who went under the name as Cobblepot. His TNBA redesign was a nice cool nod to the iconic Dick Sprang design but i didn't really care for the character as i never saw him as a physical threat to Batman, he was great in the team up episodes but the ones where he's the main villains were not great.
Honestly. It's ashame that the Penguin got this treatment. Cobblepot had a lot of opportunities for his episodes but it was just the fact that all of them didn't come out well I don't blame them for having to debunk em.
Is it weird I like this first TAS design more?
It really isn't as freaky as the Tim Burton design, and I like that it feels like he has a lot of fun doing his heists and fights with Batman even if he does loose in the end.
Its kind of fitting he gets voiced by Tom Kenny in the next series considering Ice King, though his personality was less likeable there, feeling more one dimensional like a spoiled rich kid in parallel to Bruce Wayne rather than an old school gentleman villain.
not at all weird, I'm in the same boat!
I think its kinda like a Animated Version of Tim Burtons Penguin,which i like.
I wish that Batman: Caped Crusader could make a Better Penguin based on Both Batman Return, Batman TAS, and the Batman Version. Using the More Slight Design of TNBA and the BTAS look, his backstory could be Explored with Falcone and he may could have a Relationship with Bruce Wayne, you know like a Two Face cause it could be make him more Personal to Bats.
Yeah, I really liked the Grant origin. He also did a pretty good origin for The Clayfaces. I like a more vicious (But not totally sociopathic .) Penguin.
The Penguin, fishing for sympathy:
"Why can't people just accept me for who I am? Their superior!"
Ironically, my favorite penguin episode is actually a two-face episode.
I tend to look at this version very fondly. I think having him look like the Tim Burton version and having his personality like in the comics worked out well. This Oswald Cobblepot comes off as sophisticated, educated man who want nothing more then the respect of Gothams elites but as we saw in the episode "Birds Of A Feather" he is never accepted do do his appearance. This frustrates him and drives his criminal mentality. He knows the no matter how many fancy paintings or antiques he steals, what top hats or monocles he wears or how gentlemanly he act in spite of his looks, he will never be seen as one of them. So he lashes out by becoming what they see him as. The Penguin. He is an individual with an inner turmoil much like Bruce Wayne and Batman but in this case its Oswald Chesterfeild Cobblepot of high society vs The Penguin, the viscous gangster.
It is great too see Oswalds evolution from a low tier thief to now portrayed as a weapons dealer/club owner type mafia boss. We can't wait for you to make Scarecrow 😊
It's sad to hear that people hated the BTAS design for the Penguin when it's actually my favorite. Super disappointed to know that they didn't seem to like him
Yeah, his BTAS design really made him stand out as a character. His GA design was just so uncharismatic for me.
I'd argue Penguin was more well written in the Adam West show than in a majority of BTAS
You know what, I broadly agree.
That's because he was much more gimmicky in the Adam West series, while the animated series wanted him to be the gentleman of crime which really sanitizes the gimmicky Penguin.
Some of the best Episodes of BTAS were the ones where the villains are trying to give up villainy.
Episodes like Birds of a Feather, Harley's Holiday, and Second Chance, where they're shown to be giving being "normal" an honest attempt, only for something to push them back over the edge.
Penguin from learning the woman he'd honestly fallen in love with mocked him behind his back.
Harley having a panic attack in the mall and slipping back into the Harley Quinn persona while running from a security guard.
Two-face having his goons attack Harvey before he gets a surgery to restore his face and hopefully bury the two face personality for good.
These episodes show that these are deeply broken people who need help, not monsters like Joker who just need to be locked up.
Definitely the best version of Oswald Cobblepot is the one from the Arkham games. He’s a fence dealer, criminal mastermind, devilishly charming, witty, and sometimes funny. Also love his backstory as his family were rivals to the Waynes, but lost everything. Plus, I gotta love the accent Nolan North puts on.
7:06 Fun fact Story writer Chuck Menville was actually the Father of Scott Menville
I had found it surprising to find out that Tom Kenny, the famous voice of Spongebob Squarepants, The Mayor of Townsville & The Narrator from PPG, Spyro from the Spyro games, Val Hallen from The Justice Friends segments of Dexter's Lab, and others, voiced The Penguin in The Batman!!!
Great show 😁
Unpopular Opinion: “I actually like I’ve got Batman in my Basement”. It feels like a fun campy silver age story.
That’s totally cool, the world would be a boring place if we all liked the same thing
@@SerumLake True, also fantastic series! I just discovered it and am currently binging the entire thing! I love the premise!
I really like the Voice Actor they got for The Penguin. I also liked they used the Character design from the movie. I agree they didn't use him enough.
However, I kind of like that they made him a bit of a nerd of the underworld. They leaned into his inferiority complex. So they kept his intelligence, but leaned into his goofiness.
Also, they probably also had more studio input on his use, like "make him take control of the batmobile like he did in the movie..."
But, if you could do a story using the scarecrow, the Joker, Two-face, Croc, or create a character like Baby Doll, I can understand why they utilized him less. I just hate how they treated Croc after his first couple of appearances. His first outing was quite menacing.
Penguin works best as a crime boss than a petty criminal. Sure, he was more of a supporting villain than the main threat in the new adventures of Batman, but that is a fitting role for a crime boss who lets others do his dirty work for him.
I agree, he works really well in a supporting capacity.
@@SerumLakeMaybe but the crime boss version is still boring to me. At least as a master theif, he is more fun to watch and his plans are more inventive and elaborate.
@@zemox2534 It would be nice to see Penguin trying to seize control of Thorne's empire and make it a haven for all supervillains, marking the fall of the mafia and the rise of the costume criminals.
I personally liked Danny DeVito as the Penguin, but, I think I'd of liked him better without the Tim Burton. If they could of just made him an ultra cunning business tycoon that perhaps was more of an existential threat to Bruce Wayne and Wayne Industries, It would of made for a much more interesting engagement where Batman has to try and act as more of a spy and have to wrestle with his own moral code to protect his own holdings.
Jesus, that origin was almost as needlessly brutal as Elfen Lied’s puppy death
I really enjoyed his performance in BTAS, he had a lot of comedic moments
I wish this version of the Penguin could have became the Mayor of Gotham and see how that would have played out for a season
Or 2
I really like paul Williams as his voice actor here gave him some class and sophistiction
Imo, Birds Of A Feather is like a better take on Batman Returns. It retains the angle of Oswald wanting to be accepted & welcomed into society but turning against it when he realizes he's just being used & mocked, just without the bile-spewing, the neverending sexual innuendos, & the infanticide.
paul dini or bruce timm explained the penguin's fate in batman beyond that he reformed for good, but i don't know if it was canon or not.
Danny Davitos Portrayal is impeccable.
I kinda like to imagine Cobblepot as a reflection of Bruce Wayne, or at least what Bruce Wayne could have been if Bruce had a slightly different upbringing, they’re both the children of wealthy elites who are quite intelligent and driven.
I also believe Birds of a Feather was Penguin's best episode in BTAS. Stories where the villain wants to reform have such a great potential.
I personally really like the Penguin and his design in the animated series is one I actually like more then the redesign they gave him later, though it does suck that they didn’t really do anything all that good with him in most of the episodes he features prominently in
The episode “Blind as a Bat”, intentions unknown, builds on a one shot children’s book called “the Warhawk” by Ladybird Books. The plot is similar in that Penguin steals a high class plane and Batman must get it back. The story is closer akin to a 60s Batman story, and would definitely need building on to be a tv episode, but the similarities are there. You should be able to find a read-along version here on TH-cam.
I do think Penguin is a bit run-of-the-mill, and lacks any real drive before his reboot, and works better as a secondary rather than a main. But still, his episodes (except his debut) are worth rewatching.
One of my favorite depictions of Penguin is from any of the Arkham games he's in. Design wise, he's something of a semi-realistic cross between the original BtAS design and his Danny Devito appearance. He's shown to be excessively cruel and deadly, but not so smart and definitely not physically strong enough as to pose a serious threat to Batman. His main power comes from how he uses a mix of intimidation and compensation to "encourage" loyalty in his men as well as just how much he gets off on being a sadistic madman; choosing to make any who slight him wish for death rather than ever outright killing them.
I love Paul Williams, but "the Batman"did better with the Cobblepots vs Wayne's feud and I wish they'd gone more into his bird control.
I recall hearing in an interview with paul dini that penguin settled down and ran an orphanage until he died of old age which I can believe
The Penguin, huh? Well he may have been a great evil villain, it's hard to take him seriously sometimes because his introduction literally has him squawking.😅🐧
I still enjoyed seeing penguin in the show it was a fateful to the comics as fateful as it can be
I like seeing him in the show too. I thought Paul Williams was great.
If i made a More Censored Origin for Penguin, he could be Trick by his only Friends (who is a Girl) to keep Penguins Birds with her, but she Cook All his Birds into Food and gave his Beloved Penguin Pet to her Dog. Now with Vengeance Penguin Embarrass her in her Talent Show, by making some Pigeons throw (Glitch) at her. Censored Enough?
i did love birds of a feather i wish he had more ep like that
He broke a license plate? How?! Those things are made of metal, aren't they?
Shoddily made product, I guess!
They're typically made from stamped aluminum. Aluminum is a soft metal but it still hard to break with your hands.
I honestly loved all the Penguin episodes of this series, including Birds Of A Feather.
Penguin was always My Personal Bat-Rogue. The 90's Toon did Not handle him well, at All! I think He could be done well. Burgess Meredith's portryal is about the best, and what Aland Grant did whim him was best in the comics. I would Love to see a Straight and Threatening Version done by Burgess. HE could have made the Penguin a Real Threat!
Burgess Meredith was great as the Penguin. In fact, I can't think of a single role that I've seen him in where he hasn't been brilliant.
I must be the only one that prefers the original Batman Returns design to the comic book idea.
I like it too!
the design was fine, both classical and has his sophisticated wits . its just that he was mostly misused. penguin is almost on par with the riddler on intellect but has all the ruthlessness of a gangster. its just BTAS really coudnt work with that. in many ways, the kid friendlyness of the show worked really well with joker , despite bringing down a level from a force of unstoppable chaos to a more mundane humorous threat (think the episode with the irs or the one where he bullies that one ordinary guy), his clown gimmick fits decently with his cartoonification. Not so with penguin.
the best penguin balances the gangster with the sophisticated gentleman
What I love about Birds of a Feather, is the irony is completely lost on Penguin. He wants to bluff himself into a higher social standing, and those two socialites end up using him to bluff themselves into a higher social standing. It's especially neat how they used his own motivation against him like that.
The Penguin was wasted in the show, but then the show failed to really capitizse upon the underworld aspect of Gotham, they hinted at it but never truly capitizse upon it, the Penguin would fit right in there as one of the mob bosses but then I think the Joker would make for a dangerous gangster in the city underworld, but then Warner despite the potential just keep wasting the Gotham universe by denying a live action Batman TV show that has Batman, it could make for a great crime thriller, see the various mob bosses existing and then the rising of the next generation in the form of Joker, Penguin, Two face, each of them rising up to overthrow or kill the previous bosses
That sounds like a really cool idea, and yeah, we should have had a true live action batman show already
Honestly I can see him later evolving into somewhat of a mafia boss in the batman series. Like say he has a good side and a bad side but often if you brush him the wrong way he'll rough ya up a lot. Like say how as Batman ends certain events he comes more into the picture into something that should try to be avoided when possible. Though can't be avoided as Batman is constantly trying to end crime within the city something he doesn't take kindly to.
birds of feather is a good episode imo
I really want a comic based on Red Robin taking down some “suddenly” successful gangs and tracks down that the culprit behind it all was the newly elected mayor of Gotham Oswald Cobblepot. I love the idea that one of the most corrupted aristocrats becomes the leader of Gotham. And the since he knows the criminal underground so well he starts to enact policies that dismantle them quickly and effectively putting this grey area on of whether or not Red Robin should bring The Penguin to justice.
The penguin could easily be a very interesting character if they let Batman interact with his villains more out of costume
I think the most important thing that should be leaned into with penguins character is being the victim of bullying for his appearance and to emphasize that they should not only have them be bullied, but have anyone around him family members friends otherwise do nothing about it because in their words, the bullies are right that he is ugly
It seemed like the actual crime bosses like Rupert Thorne and Tony Zucco were more threatening than the penguin
Thorne, definitely - Zucco's a chump!
I’ve always found Batman the animated series struggle with writing villains that were based on intelligence instead of strength a little weird
Whenever I think of Batman, I don’t think of someone with impeccable strength. He’s strong sure, but I always focused more on his usage of tools, weapons, etc as his strong suit, along with his, well, intellect
I’ve always more enjoyed villains that matched Batman’s intellect rather than the more brute force type of villains like killer croc (not that he’s stupid he’s just not as intelligent as the others)
It actually is one of the things that makes me not want to watch the show, to me it just doesn’t work. It’s a good show but it just doesn’t feel right to me
I feel like what they could have done was put Penguin in Rupert Thorns role.
It could be that I like the Burton movies, but I did prefer the early design to the Silver Age one in New Adventures.
to quote a line that best describe the penguin;
"penguin always get the last laugh, but the thing with people who get the last laugh... They always laugh alone"
Paul Williams-Penguin > Danny DeVito-Penguin (Burgess Meredith-Penguin still the GOAT.)
I think the number 1 Penguin is a tie between Danny DeVito and Burgess Meredith,just goes to show how Penguin Has the Best live action adaptations.
The Penguin=AL Capone
I always like the Penguin. He’s a sympathetic villain, much like Frankenstein’s monster.
Penguins wasted potential in the og BTAS/NBA is a big reason why I’m optimistic about The Caped Crusader. Given how it’s got a lot of the original writers from BTAS and the shows style seems to be leaning towards the og 30s comics, now would be the perfect opportunity to give their original 1930s inspired vision of the penguin another try without the constraints put on via movie synergy.
Edit: (SPOLIER)
sooo CC Penguin was a departure from the comic version somewhat, but she absolutely trumps BTAS Penguin as a villain and genuine threat.
It's not just Penguin, I also felt Bane and Killer Croc were also the worst depictions of their characters. Bane had very little appearances and Killer Croc's character was reduced to a backstabbing dumb brute.
I have a theory about their interpretation of Bane and Killer Croc, and to a lesser extent, the Ventriloquist and Scarface. I’ve made a note to talk about it in a future video!
The Penguin is the most powerful and cunning Batman and DC villain. He murdered his siblings, father, other male relatives, and doted on his mother the only person who loved him. As a young man he worked for his mother's family a lesser known crime family and took control of it after murdering his uncle. After taking control he grew the syndicate and this all happened before the 1930s. Penguin is in his 50s when he first met batman in the 1940s so he was born in the 1890s.
I wonder what’s your take on his depiction in Matt Reeves universe
Never knew Penguin was voiced by Danny DeVito.
U know, i actually kinda like his batman animated series design,
He looks kinda... cute? Less freaky?
Idk, its one of my favourite designs 😌
Dont judge me plz, im not over 18 yet so i haven't seen everything 😅
It’s one of my favourite designs too!
@@SerumLake oh, cool!
Yay! I'm not the only one XD
Ah, another one where I like the character well enough, but there's only one episode where they do anything with him that I actually really like. Birds of a Feather; great episode.
It sounds like studio mandates were more at fault for this one, though. It's funny that they kept insisting on making Penguin more like the movie, because long term, the movie ended up being an embarrassment for WB that made them turn the entire movie franchise 180.
This aged well
Unpopular opinion, I’m not really a fan of Birds of a Feather, I don’t really see Penguin being sympathetic, and honestly I thought it was weird that Veronica was using Penguin and by the end she’s like “I dud genuinely grew fond of you”, if the writers were gonna go that route then they should have shown it, possibly have Veronica confront Piers about their little “joke” saying that it’s going too far, especially if in later episodes she became a bit nicer…I like to think that she learned her lesson from leading on The Penguin and cut ties with Piers as he’s never mentioned again, and by the end of the episode, you can see Veronica’s look of regret as if she’s saying “what have I done?” But that’s just my opinion
Wasn’t there a penguin story in the comics that centered around him manipulating the stock market?
In the writers' defense, even I don't know how to define the quintessential Penguin. Wouldn't call the far more interesting iterations from The Batman 2004 and the Arkhamverse that either.
Either way things go, the DCAU Penguin at best didn't overstay his welcome, and I really hope he finally fell from karmic houdini grace offscreen before the Return of the Joker flashbacks.
Addendum: Oh, and I prefer his TNBA look being plastic surgery caused by Batgirl absconding him off a chopper, NOT by The Adventures Continue's Jason Todd.
Why would Batgirl do that? That sounds too brutal for her. For me the definitive Penguin is a criminal mastermind with a great intellect and a gentlemen side. Someone who is always underestimated because of his appearance but he always beats his rivals with his cunning mind.
He is a gentleman of crime . At least he was until dc turned him into a boring crime boss.
@@zemox2534 She may have slipped. After all, said incident may have happened sometime after Dick Grayson left, and she may have still been rattled by taking up his mantle as Batman's sidekick.
Other than that, can highly sympathize with how you view Oswald.
Penguin 🐧 should have been mayor of Gotham
The Penguins was one of my favorite Batman Villains, and they had to waste them hard…
Instead Batman in basement use him to use statue powers to destroy stuff like 2004 Batman series
Penguin isn't different from live-action movies either.
I’ve got Batman in my basement. I hate that episode felt like something on the Nickelodeon.
Birds of a Feather is Phenomenal though but the rest isnt very good. I liked his cameo when Batman is looking for Two-face and he visits him in prison and Penguin tries to kill him with his birds help.