I do like when they use Harley's victimization as a plot point and a spot for character development as her own character, but it is so refreshing with the new New Batman Adventures to have her as her own character with no Joker connection. As an aside it's always great to see them use her psychologist background.
@@SerumLakeisn’t that a commentary on the state of healthcare for the mentally ill? I’m fairly sure that was on purpose, her being bad at her job and kind of crazy. Inmates running the asylum.
I actually think that she genuinely reformed and became a Looney Tunes granny after Jokers death in Batman Beyond but her rebellious granddaughters probably found out who she once was and who their grandfather was. It’s like Kylo Ren trying to be like his grandfather Darth Vader That’s why she seemed so disappointed in her granddaughters after she bailed them out
It's my head Canon that Harley originally formed the Jokerz. Like how she form a Joker themed rebellion in the first Gods Amoung Us game. However now that the Joker was dead and thus no longer manipulating her paired with her education as a psychologist allowed her mind to heal over time and she eventually left the gang inorder to finally move on.
I really like the recent trend of having Harley and Barbara as friends. Super Hero Girls, Harley Quinn and Caped Crusader all approached that in very different ways, and I've enjoyed all of them.
I don't understand the weird conflation that Harley being a Victim means her abuses have to be currently happening. She can have her previous tragedy, but also work as her own unit. While I don't think Harleen becomes Harley Quinn without the Joker; that's only an origin. She can easily move past her beginnings and become something new. Some people are just weird man.
DC and WB definitely seem conflicted about having such an abusive relationship at the forefront of such a popular character. To the extent they cut or reshot any of the scenes in the first Suicide Squad movie that illustrated the toxic and abusive side of their relationship and made it seem more amicable
I'm also conflicted on it. On the one hand it's good to have her overcome an abusive relationship, but on the other, it's not exactly ideal to have her defining character trait being that she was an abused girlfriend...
Harley was always meant to be a tragic character and a warning not to fall into toxic relationships She was never meant to be a "4th" pillar I still find that ridiculous
@@SerumLake It is an interesting issue. On one hand, some people who have gone through abuse could probably use a character that represents their experience. On the other hand, it is a bit overdone to define a character that way and often badly done. I feel like Harley is an exception to the poorly written side, but I can also see why they'd want to step back from that.
Harley Quinn really is one of those characters that just exploded into pop culture, becoming one of the most popular superhero characters ever. To me OG Harley is still hard to beat especially with Arleen Sorkin voice and characterization. She hasn't been topped even though Tara is the current most well known Harley. I do like how Joker and Harley's relationship in The Batman was better but still not that great. I keep forgetting Harley is in Batman the brave and the bold. I really liked Harley in the Arkham games where bith Arleen and Tara portrayed her in along with the Injustice games The Harley Quinn show Harley growing and becoming better is similar to her DCEU version, getting out of the Joker's shadow. Honestly I have met people like Harley, being co dependent and never learning from bad relationships. I was there for a minute but others just want to stay there that it's sad.
@SerumLake yeah same could be said for Invader Zim as well with Gir. Honestly George Lucas was smart to keep the merchandising rights for Star Wars after a New Hope came out. I know Marvel is glad they got the merchandising rights back for Spidey from Sony.
I love how the in the 2020 show Harleen was a somewhat separate character from Harley, like her own Jimity Cricket. And its something i hope sticks around. Also maybe the writers can give her pet Hyenas some more spotlight.
If it hasn't been mentioned already, there's a great moment of Harley's growth in Injustice 2 when she's under the effects of Scarecrow's Fear Gas. It was a good moment to show that though Harley was still traumatized by the Joker, she was trying her best to heal. As Extra Credits put it, "Harley Quinn is not okay. And that, is okay."
14:20 I do love that Harley and Barbara’s friendship has been bubbling under the surface across all mediums for quite some time. Being on the Birds of Prey together in the comics, their amazing friendship/chemistry in “Harley Quinn” (helped by their voice actresses being sisters), here in “Caped Crusader”.
As iconic and important as the BTAS and TNBA versions of the character are, I prefer the versions in the Harley Quinn animated series and Batman: Caped Crusader. Though as you mentioned the version from the eponymous animated series had the luxury of having an entire series focused on the character. I found it refreshing that the Batman: Caped Crusader version was decoupled from Joker.
Don't forget that Hugo Strange was also a geneticist that created massive Monster Men, and is more known for that than being a psychiatrist. Just because they're both have degrees in psychology that doesn't mean they're the same character.
@@prcervi it wasn’t in BTAS, but that’s how he’s portrayed in the Comics, the TV show Gotham (where he’s probably most well know) and Bruce Timm’s Strange Days short which is sort of a pseudo-pilot for Caped Crusader.
Although the original BTAS Harley and the injustice version of Harley will always be my favorites, I really appreciate what Crusader’s version of Harley going for. It almost gives me “Absolute Batman” vibes. Where you take away an aspect of the character.’s background, in this case, her relationship with the joker, and see what you have left with this new adaptation of the character.
Harley Quinn has always been defined by her relationship with the Joker since it was such a massive part of her roots. But I like how throughout the years, DC and the many people who've written adaptations of her character have tried making her more than just a victim, or not even a victim at all. The Harley Quinn show displays her flaws and faults openly, gives her some more personality, and makes her more than just Joker's victim. Meanwhile, Caped Crusader reinventes her in a great way, taking away her link to the Joker but still giving her more depth as a result.
The only problem I feel is that Joker has to be a part of it at least in the origin. Harley Quinn is more than capable of standing on her own without the joker. But Harley Quinn never exists unless Joker is involved. The character can stand on it's own but the origin is too tightly connected to Joker if that makes any sense.
I feel like the Isekai series doesn't get enough appreciation. It explores an idea that we don't really see enough of in these villains: Are they villains because they're inherently bad, or are they villains because they don't "fit" with current society? I honestly feel like some of the characters there would be an interesting topic of an essay in the future.
Harley Quinn as an abusive victim is a plot point I feel is important. Not cause her being a victim is important to her character. But because people hurt her and then she gets up with a smile on her face and continues to kick ass. Lots of dv survivors(Including myself) love seeing her current self as someone who got out and rebuilt her life surrounded by people who accept her warts and all. Modern day Harley Quinn isn't defined by her victimhood. She's defined as a survivor who never stops smiling and builds a life she loves post dv. I wish more writers would focus on that aspect of her.
9:45 The 2019 Superhero Girls is not a soft reboot. It's a complete break from the story, style and characterizations of the web series. It was created by Lauren Faust-- likely in an attempt by WB to recreate the age, gender and culture spanning success of the G4 My Little Pony--derived from her earlier SBFF shorts for DC Nation, even bringing back the lead voice actresses to reprise their roles in the reboot.
DC: We want to make Harley Quinn a tentpole character for our company! Everyone else: Um, isn’t she a bit too inappropriate for that position, especially considering her incredibly abusive relationship with The Joker? DC: That is…a fair point, but don’t worry; we’ve already taken that into consideration and we have a few ideas for how we will tackle that particular issue. Everyone Else: Such as? DC: Well for starters, we’re going to have her break up with Joker cold turkey! Everyone Else: Okay, that’s good, but does that mean that she’s also getting a different name and costume too? DC: (tilts its head and raises its eyebrow) Why would we do that? Everyone Else: Well, if she’s going cold turkey, then it would make sense for her to no longer use the name that her abuser gave her or to have a clown motif, right? DC: Fair point? Everyone Else: You COULD still call her Harley though, since it has been used as a shortened version of her actual name, but you’d still have to give her a new superhero name though. DC: Yeah…about that! Everyone else: You’re not going to give her a new name, aren’t you? DC: NOPE! Everyone Else: Okay? Are you at least going to give her a new costume? DC: Oh yeah, we’ve got these GREAT new designs for her, here, have a look! Everyone Else: (Sees Harley’s New 52/Rebirth designs) Why do her designs range from looking like a hooker to looking like a roller derby girl to just looking like she’s in her underwear? DC: (Crap, they’re onto us, gotta think of something quick!) Uh, we wanted to show off her free spirited nature? Everyone Else: Uh huh! Sure, ya did! Hey wait, why is she covered in body paint? Isn’t only her face supposed to look like a clown? DC: Oh, that’s not make up! You see, we changed her origin so that now, she was dropped into the same vat of chemicals that created The Joker. As such, she now has the same bleached white skin as he does! Everyone Else: WHAT? You just said that you were going to cut her off from Joker, now you’re just going to make her basically a lady version of him? DC: YEP! Isn’t that a GREAT idea??? Everyone Else: NO!!! That’s a terrible idea! Ugh, well, are you at least going to let her become a member of The Bat-Family or The Outsiders or something like that? DC: Well…sort of! We’re actually planning on having her be either a member of The Suicide Squad or the leader of The Birds of Prey! Everyone Else: Well, okay, having her on the Squad actually makes a lot of sense and-WAIT, WHAT WAS THAT LAST ONE!??? The Birds of Prey? Isn’t that Barbara Gordon’s team? Wait, what do you mean by her being the LEADER? DC: I’m glad you asked! You see, we’re going to be releasing a movie about The Birds of Prey that is ACTUALLY a Harley movie with them as glorified guest stars. Everyone Else: That sounds…kinda scummy and disrespectful to Barbara Gordon. That’s like not having Captain America be the leader of The Avengers! DC: Oh, and we’re also going to allow her to start breaking the 4th Wall and acting really silly and stupid and make crass lewd jokes and stuff. Everyone Else: So; you’re basically making her an unnecessary Deadpool knockoff that’ll annoy everyone? DC: …MAYBE? Actually, we’re also looking for a new artist for one of her books, tell us; how good can you draw her naked in a bathtub about to unalive herself with a toaster? EVERYONE ELSE:😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳 (YEAH. That last part was an ACTUAL THING that DC did!)
I do love that in Harley’s holiday when Batman takes her back to Arkham he gives her dress to her and says I had bad day to once and I never had a problem with that Harley has a relationship with ivy or how she is in Batman caped crusader.
Say what you will about "The Batman", it's honestly - if bizarrely - satisfying to see a Joker/Harley relationship that'sr relatively well -adjusted. Granted, that show was meant for younger audiences, but still...
I love the angle they went with her as a psychological villain, but not as a goofy therapist, nor the gold/black costume. Really wish she was Bruce's therapist long-term.
I honestly like her og version the best but I have to that I like the version from the HQ series quite alot She’s such a overalls well written character and it‘s found the perfect balance between her being a brutal badass and a vulnerable, naive troubled woman This show deserves it’s own video btw
Any version of Harley Quinn will always be the best, but you can always feel sorry for her especially since she's been abused by The Joker, however in the Harley Quinn Show, she became the best Anti-Hero there is and taught us to get out of a toxic relationship and in Caped Crusader, she became a bit creepier and sadistic than her previous incarnations. I'll always love Harley Quinn no matter what version she's in!🥺😎🤡🃏
I don't think one can understate just how much of an effect Harley had on "reining in" the Joker, particularly when you consider what he was like before her character existed. Now, it's impossible to conceive of the Joker without her, and one could argue that it's because of her that he's remained relevant at all. After all, events in the real world have proven that random acts of (gory) violence and terror never resolve systemic contradictions; they only prolong and exacerbate them, and as we've found out with Luigi Mangione - perhaps the closest thing to a real-life Joker to have existed in recent history - the Joker is just one of many hapless individuals angry with the world, ultimately powerless to do anything to change it.
Personally I am not a huge fan of the Harley quinn cartoon. In my opinion it is just another obnoxious "adult" cartoon that throws f-bombs around like sweets and features an unlikeable cast of characters (except Kite man. He's ok). I am so tired of Quinn being put on a high pedestal. I recognise that she is popular and I appreciate DC wanting to push her in new directions but making her on the level of the bloody Trinity is just ridiculous. She is a villain not a bloody joke spouting anti hero like Deadpool. She may be a victim but she is still a villain and the dcau acknowledged this fact so the fact that dc are pushing her so hard as a "hero " is just eye rolling. Her popularity also came at thr expense of Ivy. Ivy was a great villain but now she just exist to be the love interest of Quinn.
To be fair, in season 1 of the Harley Quinn animated series Poison Ivy is in a relationship with Kite Man, not Harley, and in season 4, she has her own story, where she's running The Legion of Doom, so she isn't just Harley's love interest. Also, I think there's an episode in season 2 or 3 where Catwoman points out to Poison Ivy that she's spending too much time with Harley and not doing any plant related crimes for herself.
Many people say that Harley Quinn from Caped Crusader is the scariest representation of the character, but many forget that this title belongs to herself from Justice League: Gods and Monsters.
The Problem I have with Batman: Caped Crusader's depiction of Harley Quinn is simply that she should not be named Harley Quinn. The Name Harley Quinn was given to her by the Joker as a kind of pet name when he began to manipulate her. In Caped Crusader, she never met this Universe's version of the Joker, so it would make more sense for her to call herself Harlaquinn, after the figure of medieval theatre. They are two very different characters with two very different backgrounds and stories. This simple name change would have been a perfect way to separate the woman who went from a victim to finding herself and gaining her independence, and the monster with a conscience that we find in Caped Crusader.
You know they never call her Harley Quinn (or even Harley) in the show. It's only in the marketing material. Edit: It's the same with Harvey (who is never called Two-Face), Basil (who is ever called Clayface) and Natalia (who is never called Nocturna).
She dosn't need to be a victim but she still need to be relatable. I mean whats even her deal agaist rich people? If she was ivy that would make sence since 90% of the eviroment destruction is caused by rich people or people in the politics that give it a pass (just look at harvey in the animated series) Or hell if they wanted to make her pure evil like the joker make her everyone her victim not just rich people
You know what I think would be interesting in a Joker and Harley duo? They genuinely love each other, Joker because she actually understands him and gets his jokes, and Harley because... Well she is into batshit insane and loves the Joker's schemes, no matter how deadly. This version if the Joker is Smart, athletic, calculated, and all the best types of Joker Insane. He knows damn well what he's doing, but in the heat of the moment he goes stir crazy trying all sorts of things to add onto the plan. Harley adores and supports Joker through it all, giving tips and advice when Joker hits a roadblock in his ideas. And she's also the one to keep Joker from getting totally unhinged in the heat of the moment because "A good joke isnt funny if it gets too out of hand." Or something like that. They truly complement each other in different ways, an inseparable duo.
I love my girl Harley and my heart goes to her she really is a misunderstood character for a long time she was viewed as just the jokers girlfriend when really she was one of many of his victims but since then she has become more than that role and became her own person and even finding new love with Ivy she has been through one hell of a rollercoaster she is a role model to some who have been through or trapped in a toxic relationship and it's like a sign to those saying hey your not alone one day you can break free and become your own person again and that's the beauty of Harley Quinn's journey throughout the DCAU ♦️♠️
Haven't watched caped crusaders but I do like that Harley Quinn. The only thing is I don't like the colors of her outfit. Could have just kept the classic red/black or any other then that gold/green. Love the thought of magenta and teal but a) would match her hair in newer version (kind of) b) to bright for a calm character
I like that they tried doing something to make Harley Quinn more unique. You can only do a character so many times before they start to become a gimmick. While the overall execution and respect to the character's core traits are still important, we should still be willing to open ourselves up to new interpretations. If only they did this for Mister Freeze. The guy has so much potential as a villain rather than just doing the same tired "My wife is sick" routine.
Although I’m not particularly a fan of the Harley Quinn animated series (especially it’s most recent season where Harley and Ivy commit mass acts of terror only for Superman to claim that she’s a hero, that particularly just rubbed me the wrong way) I can appreciate that they are reinventing the character while acknowledging her negative traits
Yeah because remember what you said in the Trail video that she cheated her through life to get the promotion that she didn’t earned and I remember that Jon Kent(Superman’s son) even called her out on she help kill him and his mother in the Injustice universe and she should have died years as that is her’s and the Joker’s birth right and should have been a lost cause. Especially in the 2004 series she also did some questionable things that she isn’t sympathetic as she wasn’t doing her job properly and responsibly like Patch Adams and for the Caped Crusader they really can’t make up their minds as I thought she was going to be a stand in for the Joker like Anarky in Beware the Batman series as there was a concept for the Joker of that series. There is this movie called Ruby Gillman and it’s shows this point on its villain defeat that she claims she’s just pretty and misunderstood as that’s what media and society thinks.
I did a video about him a while back, along with some other Kings of BTAS (The Condiment King and The Sewer King) th-cam.com/video/12e99Yn6FN4/w-d-xo.html
I do want to suggest some episodes to talk about. Justice Legal Unlimited: Patriot Act (My favorite JL and JLU episode of all time) Static Shock: Jimmy (This one you might have to be careful when you upload it) Batman Beyond: The Last Resort
I always felt Harleen forced herself to grow up too fast but her interest in the criminally insane was her cracks of childlike wonder and curiosity. Joker fed into that and Harley no longer felt the need to put on a forced persona.
To be fair to Suicide Squad Isekai that is pretty much what the Isekai genre of anime is . A character (usually from a contemporary setting) getting sent to another world (usually a fantasy world). So it was essentially an Isekai Story with the Squad filling the role of the contemporary characters. Now from what I understand it wasn't a very good Isekai story but I don't think the concept was the problem there.
i like the capped crusader version of her, I also like the manic other versions. one can like different versions of a character, like how one can enjoy different flavors of a soda brand. i like a fun, manic chariceter, that will do things for the ev-luls. but also like a cold, calculating, serious character with a cold fury and a logical agenda.
You know I Saw a video about villians being right and a phrase said villians are victims too under who's enemy? A betrayed friend, a tragedy or a betrayal one common thing is pain. Pain is what makes a villian.
I always found their appearance in static shock to be quite... weird tbh. Mostly as it's not really in either of their mo's to delete a teenager. Much less a teenage girl. Sure, they're not above it. But I still felt it kinda left field.
I really liked every version of Harley except the one in Batman brave and the bold I keep forgetting she’s actually in that show cause she looks nothing like Harley. Loved the more darker serious interpretation of the character in caped crusader like it was so refreshing to see such a different take on the character that had no ties to joker and was her own character. I’m just happy this character has had a big hit on culture she’s really famous but the og Harley Quinn will always be the best.
Disappointed how little that defining relationship changed. It's either codependent abuse or normal except they're psychos. I never thought I'd want a love triangle but here I am.
if i'm being honest my main problems with modern harley (not caped crusader) is it feels like they could play up her former career more and have her knowledge of psychology on top of criminal past have her have a unique way of helping villains who are also victims like batman does, feels like she was dumbed down to just the clown side/persona that and her newer design with blue and pink almost cheerleader get up is ugly to me i get the idea behind changing the design to distance her from the joker but she made the design herself, its not like the joker made her dress like that keeping more jester esq elements like a harlequinn, her damn name sake, feels like itd be better imo
Have you played the Batman Telltale games? Harley first appears in the second one and while it doesn’t separate her from the Joker, it does put a “unique” spin on their usual relationship.
I have played that game and I love the way they flipped their relationship to make it so that she's the one in charge and The Joker (or John Doe as he is known in the story) is meekly in love with her.
I don't understand people whose problem with the Harley Quinn comedy is the relationship with Ivy. That dates back to DCAU clearly, I don't care for the brand of "comedy" on display and the show seems to need to be "adult" for the sake of being "adult". I MUCH prefer Caped Crusader's Harley. She's way scarier because she isn't a monster.
Gotta disagree with the Caped Crusader version being a dark reflection, if anything she’s more of if Batman actually went after the true villains of Gotham.
I made a post on Reddit talking about how I was tired of Harley, it got a thousand up votes in the first day and is currently at four thousand up votes with almost a thousand comments, to say she is popular is an understatement. At the same time that popularity can be a problem if you don't like the character anymore, still love the BTAS and The Batman 2004 version of her since those are the ones I grew up with thanks to DVDs and reruns, but the modern Harley is a feel tiresome for me since I never really liked her new 52 version. I hope we see more shake ups to the character and different adaptations that strain away from her new 52 version, I mean Caped Crusader was a great step into making her a complete separate character from the Joker so let's hope for more of that
Yeah she doesn't but sadly chooses to be. I'm not super informed on her comic lore but I now from the original BTAS she continued to return to the Joker even when other's like Ivy flat out tell her he just uses her.
Not that im saying she should be victimized but she should be a sorta symbol of who has to deal with their abusive/neglectful partners that can't, don't wanna see the red flags or even go crawling back to their abusive victims and become their own person. I do like that one scene in justice league where Batman was spitting nothing but facts about Joker replacing her with ACE and Harley retaliated by socking him and going straight to joker cause deep down she knows he's right. There are other versions of harley quinn that i heavily dislike because she is just a diabolical scum bag such as injustice (i could careless if she reformed, none of the superheroes and especially Batman should be buddy buddy with her), in the arkham games the audio tapes where she and joker help killed a dude's daughter by providing fake medicine and made that father offline himself
Hey Serum Lake good video. So I just want to share my own takes ans wonder what your thoughts on it. Sigh. Harley for me is my hate to love character. For me I cannot deny Harley was the most memorable and beautiful DC characters Paul and Bruce Timm ever made. The biggest issue for me though is that well.....I always enjoyed her I feel for me it seems like Harley is going through a main issue. Inconsistent writing. I cannot deny the legacy BTAS made for Harley. She was a representation of a tragic figure who suffered from the toxic treatment the Joker gave her. But ever sense DC is unsure what to do with her by making her into an antihero like the Harley comics, still loving the Joker like BTAS, make Harley still her own villainess like Harley Quinn TAS, or make her into a maniac pixie dream girl like her DCAU depictions. Popularity for a character can sadly ruin them and leads to misunderstandings. Like how people think Superman is boring and overpowered when in reality there is more to him and I'm sure they love their cool characters unaware they're overpowered too. I feel it's complicated because on one hand people loved the tragedy of Harley Quinn. But on the other hand people want Harley Quinn to have agency and I cannot blame people who wished for her to gain her own individuality. Now here is my two cents and my hot takes. I feel Harley while I do wished she has agency the main reason why we love her is the tragedy. I do feel her backstory is weird because I felt psychologist would've realized the Joker was manipulative. But oh well. Anyways I do feel keeping Harley just a crazy heroine is ruining the main reason why whe was adored. Which is why I enjoyed her being a tragedy or being a villain, anti hero or anti villain. I loved Harley Quinn The Animated Series and while it hasn't aged well with later seasons they changed it up. Harley is still a bad person because she wasn't innocent as a child. And yes Joker still manipulated her though it doesn't diminish she is still a bad guy no matter what. Also I loved her and Ivy as while they are a better romantic pair their relationship isn't healthy. But I do love the new take of Caped Crusader's Harley Quinn. I know some of the villainous changes may not be everyone's type of tea. I felt Two Face was underutilized and could've had more episodes regarding him before his demise. Or Noctura a villainess I couldn't sympathize with. But Harley is my favorite here. A cold person who wants to change the elites mentally speaking and controlling them. She justifies this as a way to stop the corruption and yet the lady is still a villainess. But she isn't completly horrible...just misguided. Though there might be one fanmade video that changed Harley. There is a youtuber named DayChaserMedia that did a minor change but it was interesting. What if Harley Quinn Never Loved The Joker? In his backstory for her Harley didn't love the Joker and was manipulating him into curing his mental health. To better understand him. However Joker is corrupting her and it gets tiring for the poor jester. As a result I feel this video was able to keep Harley's agency while also making her still a tragedy. But for me. I honestly feel in order to make Harley's reputation better DC needs to drop the anti heroine stuff. She can still be a villainess or not even be Joker's partner I mean Telltale's Batman Games, Harley Quinn The Animated Series and Caped Crusader did well with that. The main issue is how she was utilized. Overall I still enjoy Harley but honestly get annoyed she, Catwoman and Ivy are seen as redeemable when every batman villain besides the Joker or a few aren't given redemption arcs outside of comics. It doesn't help that Bruce Timm felt the villainesses in Batman were not as much so that is why Oswalda exists (No spite I love Oswalda). But I feel even the creatives are running out of ideas and Harley is one of them. I feel maybe they should other Batman villainesses such as The Mime, Magpie, or Jane Doe etcetera because they should be utilized more. I think the reason why Harley is controversial is that people feel she getting overused and seen as a creator's pet. No she is not. I do feel there is more to her. But I do feel we need to understand any adaption can change and we need to accept maybe Harley can stand on her own.
If Caped Crusader had changed Harley's name along with all the other changes, would we recognize her as an homage to Harley and wonder why they did not call her Harley?
@@SerumLakeFunnily enough, I think they did something similar in the animated movie Justice League: The Flashpoint Paradox. The Flash travels to an alternate timeline, where they have a Harley Quinn-esque character called Yo-Yo.
Harley lost my sympathy the moment she helped abduct and mutilate Jason Todd from 'Return of the Joker," Just another Karla to the Jokers Benardo. She got what she deserved. As for the other interpretations of Harley. Meh. Couldn't they write a story where her family's Rabbi tracks her down and brings back to the light? Sheesh.... 😇
The problem is these fool keep back tracking in the worst possible way and because they don’t want to make villains stay evil especially their female villain we get stupid statements like Batman has no good female villains well Timm cuz u keep making all of them become good when they do too much nonsense
Gotta be honest, the recent version of Harley from this animated series wasn’t really doing it for me, didn’t really have that much of an impact and quite boring
I never liked the hq show tbh. Mostly as they were all up in there, pretending to be all "girl power". (Much like *a lot* of shows. Like helluva boss and all those.) *Pretending* to be all up in there. Yet, fails miserably. And like all other shows: Only leans into gore and duck jokes. They have like, *one* clinical vagloober joke per season. Which, as said: For a show *all* about "girl power", is laughably pathetic. It does the same as young justice and shamefully hides anything fem in the background for split seconds. While putting anything masc front and center. Except for the corpo approved scenes. It's very "task failed successfully" in that they only follow what is allowed by the media ratings. Despite no longer being bound by them.
Horrible title. She was only a victim of her own choices, you’re kind of wrong here. The Harley Quinn’s that we see today are a different lame character. Especially given that she keeps the getup and clown theming even after breaking free.
I do like when they use Harley's victimization as a plot point and a spot for character development as her own character, but it is so refreshing with the new New Batman Adventures to have her as her own character with no Joker connection. As an aside it's always great to see them use her psychologist background.
I agree, they really underplayed her qualifications in BTAS.
True but she seduced her way to a diploma in university
@@SerumLakeisn’t that a commentary on the state of healthcare for the mentally ill? I’m fairly sure that was on purpose, her being bad at her job and kind of crazy. Inmates running the asylum.
The Telltale version is one of my favorite.
She also utilizes her psychological knowledge to read and manipulate people.
I actually think that she genuinely reformed and became a Looney Tunes granny after Jokers death in Batman Beyond but her rebellious granddaughters probably found out who she once was and who their grandfather was. It’s like Kylo Ren trying to be like his grandfather Darth Vader
That’s why she seemed so disappointed in her granddaughters after she bailed them out
I laughed so hard at the Kylo parallel, but I see it too.
It's my head Canon that Harley originally formed the Jokerz. Like how she form a Joker themed rebellion in the first Gods Amoung Us game. However now that the Joker was dead and thus no longer manipulating her paired with her education as a psychologist allowed her mind to heal over time and she eventually left the gang inorder to finally move on.
I really like the recent trend of having Harley and Barbara as friends. Super Hero Girls, Harley Quinn and Caped Crusader all approached that in very different ways, and I've enjoyed all of them.
I don't understand the weird conflation that Harley being a Victim means her abuses have to be currently happening. She can have her previous tragedy, but also work as her own unit. While I don't think Harleen becomes Harley Quinn without the Joker; that's only an origin. She can easily move past her beginnings and become something new. Some people are just weird man.
DC and WB definitely seem conflicted about having such an abusive relationship at the forefront of such a popular character. To the extent they cut or reshot any of the scenes in the first Suicide Squad movie that illustrated the toxic and abusive side of their relationship and made it seem more amicable
I'm also conflicted on it. On the one hand it's good to have her overcome an abusive relationship, but on the other, it's not exactly ideal to have her defining character trait being that she was an abused girlfriend...
Harley was always meant to be a tragic character and a warning not to fall into toxic relationships
She was never meant to be a "4th" pillar
I still find that ridiculous
@@SerumLake It is an interesting issue. On one hand, some people who have gone through abuse could probably use a character that represents their experience. On the other hand, it is a bit overdone to define a character that way and often badly done. I feel like Harley is an exception to the poorly written side, but I can also see why they'd want to step back from that.
@@SerumLakeWhy? Frankly I can’t help but roll my eyes at this kind of attitude and sentiment. Especially given the rest of the rogues gallery.
Harley Quinn really is one of those characters that just exploded into pop culture, becoming one of the most popular superhero characters ever.
To me OG Harley is still hard to beat especially with Arleen Sorkin voice and characterization. She hasn't been topped even though Tara is the current most well known Harley.
I do like how Joker and Harley's relationship in The Batman was better but still not that great.
I keep forgetting Harley is in Batman the brave and the bold.
I really liked Harley in the Arkham games where bith Arleen and Tara portrayed her in along with the Injustice games
The Harley Quinn show Harley growing and becoming better is similar to her DCEU version, getting out of the Joker's shadow.
Honestly I have met people like Harley, being co dependent and never learning from bad relationships. I was there for a minute but others just want to stay there that it's sad.
I think we can credit Hot Topic, and all those Harley Quinn t-shirts they were selling, for her rise in popularity!
@SerumLake yeah same could be said for Invader Zim as well with Gir.
Honestly George Lucas was smart to keep the merchandising rights for Star Wars after a New Hope came out. I know Marvel is glad they got the merchandising rights back for Spidey from Sony.
I love how the in the 2020 show Harleen was a somewhat separate character from Harley, like her own Jimity Cricket. And its something i hope sticks around. Also maybe the writers can give her pet Hyenas some more spotlight.
If it hasn't been mentioned already, there's a great moment of Harley's growth in Injustice 2 when she's under the effects of Scarecrow's Fear Gas. It was a good moment to show that though Harley was still traumatized by the Joker, she was trying her best to heal. As Extra Credits put it, "Harley Quinn is not okay. And that, is okay."
14:20 I do love that Harley and Barbara’s friendship has been bubbling under the surface across all mediums for quite some time. Being on the Birds of Prey together in the comics, their amazing friendship/chemistry in “Harley Quinn” (helped by their voice actresses being sisters), here in “Caped Crusader”.
They're also best friends in the Superhero Girls reboot. This gets awkward when they realize each other's identities.
As iconic and important as the BTAS and TNBA versions of the character are, I prefer the versions in the Harley Quinn animated series and Batman: Caped Crusader. Though as you mentioned the version from the eponymous animated series had the luxury of having an entire series focused on the character. I found it refreshing that the Batman: Caped Crusader version was decoupled from Joker.
I felt similarly about Caped Crusader's Harley. She was very different, but still quite recognisably Harley Quinn.
Heck no that Harley sucks they just made Hugo strange
Don't forget that Hugo Strange was also a geneticist that created massive Monster Men, and is more known for that than being a psychiatrist. Just because they're both have degrees in psychology that doesn't mean they're the same character.
@@SerumLake what episode was the monster men thing?
@@prcervi it wasn’t in BTAS, but that’s how he’s portrayed in the Comics, the TV show Gotham (where he’s probably most well know) and Bruce Timm’s Strange Days short which is sort of a pseudo-pilot for Caped Crusader.
Although the original BTAS Harley and the injustice version of Harley will always be my favorites, I really appreciate what Crusader’s version of Harley going for.
It almost gives me “Absolute Batman” vibes. Where you take away an aspect of the character.’s background, in this case, her relationship with the joker, and see what you have left with this new adaptation of the character.
Harley Quinn has always been defined by her relationship with the Joker since it was such a massive part of her roots. But I like how throughout the years, DC and the many people who've written adaptations of her character have tried making her more than just a victim, or not even a victim at all. The Harley Quinn show displays her flaws and faults openly, gives her some more personality, and makes her more than just Joker's victim. Meanwhile, Caped Crusader reinventes her in a great way, taking away her link to the Joker but still giving her more depth as a result.
The only problem I feel is that Joker has to be a part of it at least in the origin. Harley Quinn is more than capable of standing on her own without the joker. But Harley Quinn never exists unless Joker is involved. The character can stand on it's own but the origin is too tightly connected to Joker if that makes any sense.
I feel like the Isekai series doesn't get enough appreciation. It explores an idea that we don't really see enough of in these villains: Are they villains because they're inherently bad, or are they villains because they don't "fit" with current society? I honestly feel like some of the characters there would be an interesting topic of an essay in the future.
Harley Quinn as an abusive victim is a plot point I feel is important. Not cause her being a victim is important to her character. But because people hurt her and then she gets up with a smile on her face and continues to kick ass. Lots of dv survivors(Including myself) love seeing her current self as someone who got out and rebuilt her life surrounded by people who accept her warts and all. Modern day Harley Quinn isn't defined by her victimhood. She's defined as a survivor who never stops smiling and builds a life she loves post dv. I wish more writers would focus on that aspect of her.
9:45 The 2019 Superhero Girls is not a soft reboot. It's a complete break from the story, style and characterizations of the web series. It was created by Lauren Faust-- likely in an attempt by WB to recreate the age, gender and culture spanning success of the G4 My Little Pony--derived from her earlier SBFF shorts for DC Nation, even bringing back the lead voice actresses to reprise their roles in the reboot.
DC: We want to make Harley Quinn a tentpole character for our company!
Everyone else: Um, isn’t she a bit too inappropriate for that position, especially considering her incredibly abusive relationship with The Joker?
DC: That is…a fair point, but don’t worry; we’ve already taken that into consideration and we have a few ideas for how we will tackle that particular issue.
Everyone Else: Such as?
DC: Well for starters, we’re going to have her break up with Joker cold turkey!
Everyone Else: Okay, that’s good, but does that mean that she’s also getting a different name and costume too?
DC: (tilts its head and raises its eyebrow) Why would we do that?
Everyone Else: Well, if she’s going cold turkey, then it would make sense for her to no longer use the name that her abuser gave her or to have a clown motif, right?
DC: Fair point?
Everyone Else: You COULD still call her Harley though, since it has been used as a shortened version of her actual name, but you’d still have to give her a new superhero name though.
DC: Yeah…about that!
Everyone else: You’re not going to give her a new name, aren’t you?
DC: NOPE!
Everyone Else: Okay? Are you at least going to give her a new costume?
DC: Oh yeah, we’ve got these GREAT new designs for her, here, have a look!
Everyone Else: (Sees Harley’s New 52/Rebirth designs) Why do her designs range from looking like a hooker to looking like a roller derby girl to just looking like she’s in her underwear?
DC: (Crap, they’re onto us, gotta think of something quick!) Uh, we wanted to show off her free spirited nature?
Everyone Else: Uh huh! Sure, ya did! Hey wait, why is she covered in body paint? Isn’t only her face supposed to look like a clown?
DC: Oh, that’s not make up! You see, we changed her origin so that now, she was dropped into the same vat of chemicals that created The Joker. As such, she now has the same bleached white skin as he does!
Everyone Else: WHAT? You just said that you were going to cut her off from Joker, now you’re just going to make her basically a lady version of him?
DC: YEP! Isn’t that a GREAT idea???
Everyone Else: NO!!! That’s a terrible idea! Ugh, well, are you at least going to let her become a member of The Bat-Family or The Outsiders or something like that?
DC: Well…sort of! We’re actually planning on having her be either a member of The Suicide Squad or the leader of The Birds of Prey!
Everyone Else: Well, okay, having her on the Squad actually makes a lot of sense and-WAIT, WHAT WAS THAT LAST ONE!??? The Birds of Prey? Isn’t that Barbara Gordon’s team? Wait, what do you mean by her being the LEADER?
DC: I’m glad you asked! You see, we’re going to be releasing a movie about The Birds of Prey that is ACTUALLY a Harley movie with them as glorified guest stars.
Everyone Else: That sounds…kinda scummy and disrespectful to Barbara Gordon. That’s like not having Captain America be the leader of The Avengers!
DC: Oh, and we’re also going to allow her to start breaking the 4th Wall and acting really silly and stupid and make crass lewd jokes and stuff.
Everyone Else: So; you’re basically making her an unnecessary Deadpool knockoff that’ll annoy everyone?
DC: …MAYBE? Actually, we’re also looking for a new artist for one of her books, tell us; how good can you draw her naked in a bathtub about to unalive herself with a toaster?
EVERYONE ELSE:😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳
(YEAH. That last part was an ACTUAL THING that DC did!)
I do love that in Harley’s holiday when Batman takes her back to Arkham he gives her dress to her and says I had bad day to once and I never had a problem with that Harley has a relationship with ivy or how she is in Batman caped crusader.
Yes! That is such a sweet moment at the end of Harley's Holiday and really shows what a great writer Paul Dini can be.
Honestly I’m really looking forward to see where Caped Crusader goes with their Harley Quinn, having her be a foil for Batman will be interesting
Say what you will about "The Batman", it's honestly - if bizarrely - satisfying to see a Joker/Harley relationship that'sr relatively well -adjusted.
Granted, that show was meant for younger audiences, but still...
I love the angle they went with her as a psychological villain, but not as a goofy therapist, nor the gold/black costume. Really wish she was Bruce's therapist long-term.
DCAU Harley will always be the best one, I also do really love the Harley Quinn show and the DC Superhero Girls web series before the 2019 rebrand
I honestly like her og version the best but I have to that I like the version from the HQ series quite alot
She’s such a overalls well written character and it‘s found the perfect balance between her being a brutal badass and a vulnerable, naive troubled woman
This show deserves it’s own video btw
Any version of Harley Quinn will always be the best, but you can always feel sorry for her especially since she's been abused by The Joker, however in the Harley Quinn Show, she became the best Anti-Hero there is and taught us to get out of a toxic relationship and in Caped Crusader, she became a bit creepier and sadistic than her previous incarnations. I'll always love Harley Quinn no matter what version she's in!🥺😎🤡🃏
I don't think one can understate just how much of an effect Harley had on "reining in" the Joker, particularly when you consider what he was like before her character existed.
Now, it's impossible to conceive of the Joker without her, and one could argue that it's because of her that he's remained relevant at all. After all, events in the real world have proven that random acts of (gory) violence and terror never resolve systemic contradictions; they only prolong and exacerbate them, and as we've found out with Luigi Mangione - perhaps the closest thing to a real-life Joker to have existed in recent history - the Joker is just one of many hapless individuals angry with the world, ultimately powerless to do anything to change it.
Personally I am not a huge fan of the Harley quinn cartoon. In my opinion it is just another obnoxious "adult" cartoon that throws f-bombs around like sweets and features an unlikeable cast of characters (except Kite man. He's ok).
I am so tired of Quinn being put on a high pedestal. I recognise that she is popular and I appreciate DC wanting to push her in new directions but making her on the level of the bloody Trinity is just ridiculous.
She is a villain not a bloody joke spouting anti hero like Deadpool. She may be a victim but she is still a villain and the dcau acknowledged this fact so the fact that dc are pushing her so hard as a "hero " is just eye rolling.
Her popularity also came at thr expense of Ivy. Ivy was a great villain but now she just exist to be the love interest of Quinn.
To be fair, in season 1 of the Harley Quinn animated series Poison Ivy is in a relationship with Kite Man, not Harley, and in season 4, she has her own story, where she's running The Legion of Doom, so she isn't just Harley's love interest. Also, I think there's an episode in season 2 or 3 where Catwoman points out to Poison Ivy that she's spending too much time with Harley and not doing any plant related crimes for herself.
13:38 But Bruce Tim just came round and burned all my comics and DVDs that had Harley Quinn in them 5 minutes ago.
Many people say that Harley Quinn from Caped Crusader is the scariest representation of the character, but many forget that this title belongs to herself from Justice League: Gods and Monsters.
I completely forgot she in the batman cartoon
the Hadley Quinn show is my favourite take on the character. I love your analysis videos, you are incredibly underrated!
The Problem I have with Batman: Caped Crusader's depiction of Harley Quinn is simply that she should not be named Harley Quinn. The Name Harley Quinn was given to her by the Joker as a kind of pet name when he began to manipulate her. In Caped Crusader, she never met this Universe's version of the Joker, so it would make more sense for her to call herself Harlaquinn, after the figure of medieval theatre. They are two very different characters with two very different backgrounds and stories. This simple name change would have been a perfect way to separate the woman who went from a victim to finding herself and gaining her independence, and the monster with a conscience that we find in Caped Crusader.
You know they never call her Harley Quinn (or even Harley) in the show. It's only in the marketing material.
Edit: It's the same with Harvey (who is never called Two-Face), Basil (who is ever called Clayface) and Natalia (who is never called Nocturna).
All true, except for the credits, where their supervillain names are listed.
She dosn't need to be a victim but she still need to be relatable.
I mean whats even her deal agaist rich people? If she was ivy that would make sence since 90% of the eviroment destruction is caused by rich people or people in the politics that give it a pass (just look at harvey in the animated series)
Or hell if they wanted to make her pure evil like the joker make her everyone her victim not just rich people
You know what I think would be interesting in a Joker and Harley duo? They genuinely love each other, Joker because she actually understands him and gets his jokes, and Harley because... Well she is into batshit insane and loves the Joker's schemes, no matter how deadly.
This version if the Joker is Smart, athletic, calculated, and all the best types of Joker Insane. He knows damn well what he's doing, but in the heat of the moment he goes stir crazy trying all sorts of things to add onto the plan.
Harley adores and supports Joker through it all, giving tips and advice when Joker hits a roadblock in his ideas. And she's also the one to keep Joker from getting totally unhinged in the heat of the moment because "A good joke isnt funny if it gets too out of hand." Or something like that.
They truly complement each other in different ways, an inseparable duo.
I love my girl Harley and my heart goes to her she really is a misunderstood character for a long time she was viewed as just the jokers girlfriend when really she was one of many of his victims but since then she has become more than that role and became her own person and even finding new love with Ivy she has been through one hell of a rollercoaster she is a role model to some who have been through or trapped in a toxic relationship and it's like a sign to those saying hey your not alone one day you can break free and become your own person again and that's the beauty of Harley Quinn's journey throughout the DCAU ♦️♠️
I have always said Harley doesn't have to be a victim in order to be Harley Quinn. And I'm happy to see more of this.
Not mentioning her cameo in Batman: Beyond is criminal
Errr… I did.
@SerumLake the Video mentioned the dee dee twins but not her bailing them out and scoulding them
Haven't watched caped crusaders but I do like that Harley Quinn. The only thing is I don't like the colors of her outfit. Could have just kept the classic red/black or any other then that gold/green.
Love the thought of magenta and teal but a) would match her hair in newer version (kind of) b) to bright for a calm character
In DC and MArvel there are so many universes and versions of characters, why do people have to get so upset over a character changing.
Preach 🙌
The Batman 2004 is like the one time I’ve gotten way Harley was into Joker
I like that they tried doing something to make Harley Quinn more unique. You can only do a character so many times before they start to become a gimmick. While the overall execution and respect to the character's core traits are still important, we should still be willing to open ourselves up to new interpretations.
If only they did this for Mister Freeze. The guy has so much potential as a villain rather than just doing the same tired "My wife is sick" routine.
Although I’m not particularly a fan of the Harley Quinn animated series (especially it’s most recent season where Harley and Ivy commit mass acts of terror only for Superman to claim that she’s a hero, that particularly just rubbed me the wrong way) I can appreciate that they are reinventing the character while acknowledging her negative traits
Yeah because remember what you said in the Trail video that she cheated her through life to get the promotion that she didn’t earned and I remember that Jon Kent(Superman’s son) even called her out on she help kill him and his mother in the Injustice universe and she should have died years as that is her’s and the Joker’s birth right and should have been a lost cause.
Especially in the 2004 series she also did some questionable things that she isn’t sympathetic as she wasn’t doing her job properly and responsibly like Patch Adams and for the Caped Crusader they really can’t make up their minds as I thought she was going to be a stand in for the Joker like Anarky in Beware the Batman series as there was a concept for the Joker of that series.
There is this movie called Ruby Gillman and it’s shows this point on its villain defeat that she claims she’s just pretty and misunderstood as that’s what media and society thinks.
4:46 True, that outcome hurt me like that of "Birds of a Feather".
6:27 "Dear pesky plumbers..."
You think for your next villain analysis you could do The Clock King from Batman the animated series?
I did a video about him a while back, along with some other Kings of BTAS (The Condiment King and The Sewer King) th-cam.com/video/12e99Yn6FN4/w-d-xo.html
I do want to suggest some episodes to talk about.
Justice Legal Unlimited: Patriot Act (My favorite JL and JLU episode of all time)
Static Shock: Jimmy (This one you might have to be careful when you upload it)
Batman Beyond: The Last Resort
I always felt Harleen forced herself to grow up too fast but her interest in the criminally insane was her cracks of childlike wonder and curiosity. Joker fed into that and Harley no longer felt the need to put on a forced persona.
To be fair to Suicide Squad Isekai that is pretty much what the Isekai genre of anime is . A character (usually from a contemporary setting) getting sent to another world (usually a fantasy world). So it was essentially an Isekai Story with the Squad filling the role of the contemporary characters. Now from what I understand it wasn't a very good Isekai story but I don't think the concept was the problem there.
i like the capped crusader version of her, I also like the manic other versions. one can like different versions of a character, like how one can enjoy different flavors of a soda brand.
i like a fun, manic chariceter, that will do things for the ev-luls.
but also like a cold, calculating, serious character with a cold fury and a logical agenda.
You know I Saw a video about villians being right and a phrase said villians are victims too under who's enemy?
A betrayed friend, a tragedy or a betrayal one common thing is pain. Pain is what makes a villian.
I always found their appearance in static shock to be quite... weird tbh. Mostly as it's not really in either of their mo's to delete a teenager. Much less a teenage girl. Sure, they're not above it. But I still felt it kinda left field.
I really liked every version of Harley except the one in Batman brave and the bold I keep forgetting she’s actually in that show cause she looks nothing like Harley. Loved the more darker serious interpretation of the character in caped crusader like it was so refreshing to see such a different take on the character that had no ties to joker and was her own character. I’m just happy this character has had a big hit on culture she’s really famous but the og Harley Quinn will always be the best.
Disappointed how little that defining relationship changed. It's either codependent abuse or normal except they're psychos. I never thought I'd want a love triangle but here I am.
if i'm being honest my main problems with modern harley (not caped crusader) is it feels like they could play up her former career more and have her knowledge of psychology on top of criminal past have her have a unique way of helping villains who are also victims like batman does, feels like she was dumbed down to just the clown side/persona
that and her newer design with blue and pink almost cheerleader get up is ugly to me
i get the idea behind changing the design to distance her from the joker but she made the design herself, its not like the joker made her dress like that
keeping more jester esq elements like a harlequinn, her damn name sake, feels like itd be better imo
Have you played the Batman Telltale games? Harley first appears in the second one and while it doesn’t separate her from the Joker, it does put a “unique” spin on their usual relationship.
I have played that game and I love the way they flipped their relationship to make it so that she's the one in charge and The Joker (or John Doe as he is known in the story) is meekly in love with her.
I don't understand people whose problem with the Harley Quinn comedy is the relationship with Ivy. That dates back to DCAU clearly, I don't care for the brand of "comedy" on display and the show seems to need to be "adult" for the sake of being "adult".
I MUCH prefer Caped Crusader's Harley. She's way scarier because she isn't a monster.
Gotta disagree with the Caped Crusader version being a dark reflection, if anything she’s more of if Batman actually went after the true villains of Gotham.
I made a post on Reddit talking about how I was tired of Harley, it got a thousand up votes in the first day and is currently at four thousand up votes with almost a thousand comments, to say she is popular is an understatement. At the same time that popularity can be a problem if you don't like the character anymore, still love the BTAS and The Batman 2004 version of her since those are the ones I grew up with thanks to DVDs and reruns, but the modern Harley is a feel tiresome for me since I never really liked her new 52 version. I hope we see more shake ups to the character and different adaptations that strain away from her new 52 version, I mean Caped Crusader was a great step into making her a complete separate character from the Joker so let's hope for more of that
I couldn't agree more with his opinions on Suicide Squad Isekai.
Am I only one who is tired of these portraits that stray so far from original?
You and Me both.
And interestingly interested in this Harley Quinn tv 📺
People try to help her, but she turn them away
Yeah she doesn't but sadly chooses to be. I'm not super informed on her comic lore but I now from the original BTAS she continued to return to the Joker even when other's like Ivy flat out tell her he just uses her.
Not that im saying she should be victimized but she should be a sorta symbol of who has to deal with their abusive/neglectful partners that can't, don't wanna see the red flags or even go crawling back to their abusive victims and become their own person.
I do like that one scene in justice league where Batman was spitting nothing but facts about Joker replacing her with ACE and Harley retaliated by socking him and going straight to joker cause deep down she knows he's right.
There are other versions of harley quinn that i heavily dislike because she is just a diabolical scum bag such as injustice (i could careless if she reformed, none of the superheroes and especially Batman should be buddy buddy with her), in the arkham games the audio tapes where she and joker help killed a dude's daughter by providing fake medicine and made that father offline himself
She also doesn't have to be overused
Hey Serum Lake good video. So I just want to share my own takes ans wonder what your thoughts on it. Sigh. Harley for me is my hate to love character. For me I cannot deny Harley was the most memorable and beautiful DC characters Paul and Bruce Timm ever made. The biggest issue for me though is that well.....I always enjoyed her I feel for me it seems like Harley is going through a main issue. Inconsistent writing.
I cannot deny the legacy BTAS made for Harley. She was a representation of a tragic figure who suffered from the toxic treatment the Joker gave her. But ever sense DC is unsure what to do with her by making her into an antihero like the Harley comics, still loving the Joker like BTAS, make Harley still her own villainess like Harley Quinn TAS, or make her into a maniac pixie dream girl like her DCAU depictions.
Popularity for a character can sadly ruin them and leads to misunderstandings. Like how people think Superman is boring and overpowered when in reality there is more to him and I'm sure they love their cool characters unaware they're overpowered too. I feel it's complicated because on one hand people loved the tragedy of Harley Quinn. But on the other hand people want Harley Quinn to have agency and I cannot blame people who wished for her to gain her own individuality. Now here is my two cents and my hot takes.
I feel Harley while I do wished she has agency the main reason why we love her is the tragedy. I do feel her backstory is weird because I felt psychologist would've realized the Joker was manipulative. But oh well. Anyways I do feel keeping Harley just a crazy heroine is ruining the main reason why whe was adored. Which is why I enjoyed her being a tragedy or being a villain, anti hero or anti villain.
I loved Harley Quinn The Animated Series and while it hasn't aged well with later seasons they changed it up. Harley is still a bad person because she wasn't innocent as a child. And yes Joker still manipulated her though it doesn't diminish she is still a bad guy no matter what. Also I loved her and Ivy as while they are a better romantic pair their relationship isn't healthy.
But I do love the new take of Caped Crusader's Harley Quinn. I know some of the villainous changes may not be everyone's type of tea. I felt Two Face was underutilized and could've had more episodes regarding him before his demise. Or Noctura a villainess I couldn't sympathize with. But Harley is my favorite here. A cold person who wants to change the elites mentally speaking and controlling them. She justifies this as a way to stop the corruption and yet the lady is still a villainess. But she isn't completly horrible...just misguided.
Though there might be one fanmade video that changed Harley. There is a youtuber named DayChaserMedia that did a minor change but it was interesting. What if Harley Quinn Never Loved The Joker? In his backstory for her Harley didn't love the Joker and was manipulating him into curing his mental health. To better understand him. However Joker is corrupting her and it gets tiring for the poor jester. As a result I feel this video was able to keep Harley's agency while also making her still a tragedy.
But for me. I honestly feel in order to make Harley's reputation better DC needs to drop the anti heroine stuff. She can still be a villainess or not even be Joker's partner I mean Telltale's Batman Games, Harley Quinn The Animated Series and Caped Crusader did well with that. The main issue is how she was utilized.
Overall I still enjoy Harley but honestly get annoyed she, Catwoman and Ivy are seen as redeemable when every batman villain besides the Joker or a few aren't given redemption arcs outside of comics. It doesn't help that Bruce Timm felt the villainesses in Batman were not as much so that is why Oswalda exists (No spite I love Oswalda). But I feel even the creatives are running out of ideas and Harley is one of them. I feel maybe they should other Batman villainesses such as The Mime, Magpie, or Jane Doe etcetera because they should be utilized more. I think the reason why Harley is controversial is that people feel she getting overused and seen as a creator's pet. No she is not. I do feel there is more to her. But I do feel we need to understand any adaption can change and we need to accept maybe Harley can stand on her own.
i do like the 2004 batman cartoon version of the harley and joker relationship is less toxic in my Opinion to be honest
2024 suicide squad movie isn't the first anime of Harley.
2020's Harley Quinn series has a great concept, but I hated the execution.
LOOK 👀looking forward soon 🔜 >?
I've noticed that even in Caped Crusader, Harley's usual weapon of choice is some sort of mallet or hammer. Why do you think that is?
i'm not one of YOUR people but... i like to listen to your rambling while i do something else.
If Caped Crusader had changed Harley's name along with all the other changes, would we recognize her as an homage to Harley and wonder why they did not call her Harley?
If they had called her, say, The Jester, and gave her a different real name, yes, I’d wonder why they didn’t just call her Harley Quinn.
@@SerumLakeFunnily enough, I think they did something similar in the animated movie Justice League: The Flashpoint Paradox. The Flash travels to an alternate timeline, where they have a Harley Quinn-esque character called Yo-Yo.
Oh yeah, the Isekai happened... people sure hated that thing, didn't they?
I would love to see her move on with her life
Lets discuss Batman: The Doom That Came to Gotham (2023) 🤔 cause I liked it
Harley lost my sympathy the moment she helped abduct and mutilate Jason Todd from 'Return of the Joker,"
Just another Karla to the Jokers Benardo.
She got what she deserved.
As for the other interpretations of Harley. Meh.
Couldn't they write a story where her family's Rabbi tracks her down and brings back to the light? Sheesh....
😇
So 🤬bleeping and bleeding 🩸interesting 🤨?
TV 📺arguments soon. 🔜
12:03 Joshua Cobblepot?
Slash/
UP ⬆🆙to?
I don't blame people for getting sick of seeing Harley Quinn, considering how much she appears in movies, cartoons and comics.
The problem is these fool keep back tracking in the worst possible way and because they don’t want to make villains stay evil especially their female villain we get stupid statements like Batman has no good female villains well Timm cuz u keep making all of them become good when they do too much nonsense
Two your interesting 🤨tv 📺versus 🆚TH-cam ?
51 minutes to an hour of time soon 🔜heck yeah the!
I did like the suicide squade isekai andf I understand that some dont realy care about it
#harleyfansince92
TH-cam tv 📺video in
👋👋👋
99th
Gotta be honest, the recent version of Harley from this animated series wasn’t really doing it for me, didn’t really have that much of an impact and quite boring
I never liked the hq show tbh. Mostly as they were all up in there, pretending to be all "girl power". (Much like *a lot* of shows. Like helluva boss and all those.) *Pretending* to be all up in there. Yet, fails miserably. And like all other shows: Only leans into gore and duck jokes. They have like, *one* clinical vagloober joke per season. Which, as said: For a show *all* about "girl power", is laughably pathetic. It does the same as young justice and shamefully hides anything fem in the background for split seconds. While putting anything masc front and center. Except for the corpo approved scenes. It's very "task failed successfully" in that they only follow what is allowed by the media ratings. Despite no longer being bound by them.
Horrible title. She was only a victim of her own choices, you’re kind of wrong here. The Harley Quinn’s that we see today are a different lame character. Especially given that she keeps the getup and clown theming even after breaking free.
You say that like it justifies the abuse
@@jordanloux3883No I don’t say it like that. That’s you projecting.
I think this this this version of it is the more communist and the way of it are thinking and
Overrated character!