@@tysondennis1016 Yeah. Same with Batman Beyond Return of the Joker. His "censored" death, where he's electrocuted off-screen, where you hear the electricity and his absolute agonized guttural scream, but all you get to see is Batgirl react to it, is far more horrifying than his uncensored shooting death. It's just so quick and savage.
One thing I adore about Teddy, Clayface's partner, is that despite his new affliction and appearance, he didn't care what he looked like. Not even in the slightest. He didn't run in terror or shame, he stood by his side to the very end. Even when Clayface was shouting and screaming at him. Teddy truly cared for Matt even when he became Clayface, he never ran from him. He tried his damn best to help him. But Matt was gone, and Clayface was all that was left.
Sisters, Bros, nonbinary folks? Find yourself someone as accepting as teddy, as compassionate as Bruce, as loyal as Dick/Richard, and as caring as Tim. ((BTW loyal doesn't mean they don't know when to walk away. Its actually the opposite))
HOLY SHIT IT JUST HIT ME, HE TAKES ON THE FORM OF AN ATTRACTIVE WOMAN TO GO UNDETECTED BY TEDDY, BECAUSE AN ATTRACTIVE WOMAN IS THE LAST THING A GAY MAN WOULD BE INTERESTED IN
A notable aspect of Annie and Clayface's refusal to accept her identity is possibly thay those that fall into the queer identity but then are abused for it are more likely to, like you said, become abusers, including of their own children. If their children go on to also match their own experience, they feel possibly betrayed, either by their child or the world, that the child gets to live a happy queer life while the abuser had to suffer, and thereby the abuser feels a need to correct this supposed injustice. In this sense, Clayface could not accept that this reproduction of him could both be happy or have a life or their own without knowledge of the hardships of the world that he experienced.
@@wesmcinerny4524Calling someone a modern-thinker as an insult is one of the most idiotic thing I've ever seen, obviously using modern morals and philosophies on historical events is wrong, but that's not what's happening here, the director straight up said Clayface was meant to be in a gay relationship, that's not modern thinking, that's pointing at the obvious fact that their was queer influence in the story.
To be fair,his main annoyance is that she was part of him. I mean,imagine if part of you became sentient,he effectively generated another personality inside his own flesh/clay/body. That’s why the trans allegory seems a little unlikely to me but I’m not trans and I’ve not seen the episode so what do I know? I could be wrong,I’ve been wrong before and I’ll be wrong again. To me,it reads more as DID,where one mind effectively fractures into multiple individual minds,each sentient. My very limited understanding of the condition is that one treatment is to effectively try to rejoin all parts of the mind together again,which is basically what Clayface does but I wonder how it’d feel to be assimilated into one personality if you were an alter
Clayface horrified me as a kid, because obviously, but I also became fascinated with him. That fascination has made me see the many layers of metaphors that create him, more than many other villians. Most other villians are one main concept turned into a person, but Clayface is a mix of queer metaphors, the way actors can be treated, the cycles of abuse... He's surprisingly complex and I'm happy he scared that little me so long ago.
The clayface episodes are all very complex, and I think it is good how these stories are up to these forms of interpretation. Whether intended or not, a good and deep series of episodes.
@@SerumLake well I don't know about queerness to validate or disprove your claims but I do see these episodes as stories about disability and what being crippled actually means in a world who would be much more comfortable sweeping it under the rug, mind you the show took its influence after mid 40's and early 50's American art after all.
Tbh I don't think he's genderfluid (at least not this version the Harley Quinn show Clayface definitely is) I think this version of Mat is just a good actor and is willing to play any role he feels benefits him at the time.
Yes, I think you’re right. One of the other commentators on this video made a really good point about Clayface choosing his form depending on the situation he’s in. When he wants to be inconspicuous he’ll take the form of a young woman, or a little girl, like Annie. I think that’s a very good observation that I hadn’t noticed before.
That's what I thought at first, especially after seeing so many cis/het actors such as Dustin Hoffman, Robin Williams, Patrick Swayze, John Leguizamo, and Wesley Snipes, etc. play drag parts in "Tootsie," "Mrs. Doubtfire," "To Wong Fu..." etc. often for ulterior (non-trans) motives, probably following Hayes Code tradition.
While the official material describes him as becoming as ugly and distorted on the inside as he is on the outside, I would argue the opposite. Matt Hagen was vain, yes, but his biggest issue was his inability to process stress in a healthy way, leading him to become abusive to his lover and lash out at anything and anyone around him. This may or may not have been the case prior to his initial injury, but was absolutely the case before becoming Clayface. Upon his transformation, he could no longer hide from the fact that he couldn't even control himself (both physically and emotionally), and had a constant visual reminder of the monster he had become. If his "I'm not even a man anymore" remark is in regards to shame over his own helplessness, this would further support the idea that the only thing that really makes him a villain is his own inability to look inside himself and accept his own faults. Which, I suppose, does lead back to the point of vanity after all.
I agree, entirely. For years I had misremembered that Dini quote - as you said, it makes more sense the other way around. Clayface is who Hagen was on the inside, and his ugly exterior now reflects his interior.
I think they would’ve seen him on the news and have been very hurt that he never reached out to them. It’s a shame this was never touched on again in the tie in comics.
@@SerumLakeYou mean *"even* in the tie-in comics"? Still, yeah, so many loose ends put aside in the DCAU (and even then, said tie-ins are Schrodinger's canon, so not all of them fit in the continuity). Would love to flesh them out and give them some closure akin to a bunch of Star Wars Legends stuff like the tale of Tenn Graneet (the Death Star gunner who said "Stand by... stand by").
@@SerumLake That's assuming Teddy is still in Gotham when that happens. For all we know, he might've died or moved out of Gotham. I like to think that he moved away. That would probably be the best for him.
Clayface's sex and gender identity is an interesting subject. Personally, i think it's safe to say that Clayface, as an anthropomorphic blob, has no defined sex in the human sense. But, it is impossible to make assumptions on his gender identity simply because we never got to know this version of Matt Hagan well enough beforehand, and it would stand to reason that his gender identity wouldn't change along with his body. Just to clarify my thoughts and how I've come to define these terms...I've always thought of "sex" as the purely physical, biological, and chromosomal components one is born with, whereas "gender" incompasses all the psychological and emotional aspects of the self. For some, these things are in sync, and for others, they are not. Your mileage may vary.
Thanks for sharing your well considered thoughts. I think that Clayface is by far the most interesting villain in BTAS, and I’m genuinely surprised by some of the negative comments I’ve received on this video, so it’s always nice to see someone actually engaging with the topic!
Gender can technically refer to both (and since sex is a dirty word,it can be more comfortable to use the term gender). That’s why gender identity and physical gender are terms,to help define the difference
I really feel sorry for Matt Hagan's Clayface. A life ruined by a corrupt industrialist and made into another of Batman's rogue's gallery. He, like Two-Face and Mr. Freeze, is a tragic character. His moment when he remarks to Teddy that he's not an actor any more, or even human, and breaks down, is heartbreaking. As for queer or genderfluid...that never occurred to me watching the episodes with him.
Two-Face and Mr. Freeze are distinctly more sympathetic though. Matt showed a willingness to murder to get his precious cream, while Harvey was at the mercy of a psychological disorder and Victor Fries was turned into a sociopathic person through means beyond his control. His initial motivation for revenge is also completely understandable and sympathetic. The Riddler is actually a character that doesn't come up as much as he should regarding sympathetic villains, likely due to the pain and suffering not being present, and seemingly lessened due to a suave persona. Edward was robbed of millions and credit was also taken for his idea. Being an inmate at Arkham implies due to enduring a grave injustice, he psychologically snapped in murderous fashion, largely absolving him of his future villainous actions, which certainly aren't in the league of other Batman rogues - He doesn't murder willy nilly. People like Baby Doll, The Mad Hatter, Calendar Girl, Harley, and The Clock King are sympathetic in their own way too. Maximillian Zeus and The Ventriloquist are especially sympathetic and it's cool that the latter got a happy ending. I think Harvey and Harley were apparently going to have one, but no one really had the foresight of a sequel series likely getting made for the transition from Fox to WB, and The Ventriloquist ended up getting one instead.
Wow. I never realised how complex the Clayface episodes were. I knew they were nuanced, but I never knew about the queer subtext. It makes me appreciate Clayface even more.
I always just took Annie as toxic parents not wanting their kids to make friends with someone they didn't like but the trans angle feels like I missed a stop sign at a 4 way intersection. Like how did I not?
The Harley Quinn comics special, "The Real Sidekicks of New Gotham Special #1", has an Annie that's just as wildly rebooted as Clayface. In this one, Karlo creates her to pass an audition in Las Vegas, only to completely forget her existence and abandon her in a motel room because of his flakiness. She escapes and creates a life by turning into a shallow teenager who hangs out with rich kids, but eventually has an encounter with her father where she has to rescue him. He promises to give her a life as a show biz brat in Los Angeles, and she ends up being interviewed as an overwrought Emo girl who turns into a monster at the slightest offense. I know the Annie fans at Deviantart will hate it, but I'm excited for more.
@@warheadsnation I actually love it. For that world that is a great interpretation. And itnopens the door for other writers to adapt her in many new ways.
I have always liked the idea of that Annie really *was* always Clayface, being a sort of manifestation of Matt's love and good in him or (if I'm feeling daring) Clayface having some sort of DID after being so many people (except for his "original self") after so long-It'd be nice to see her become a new (and redeemed) Clayface after fighting his/her/their inner demons. I mean, there are versions of Clayface where he is a close ally of the Batfamily so... ...eh, probably just me.
I see Clayface as bi, but ultimately, he doesn't love anyone other than himself. As for his gender, I think he's male, but an actor. Even back in the day, it was not uncommon for men to play the parts of women even now. Clayface is an actor and whatever form he is taking on is a costume. Moreover, Annie is not really his offspring, but... an extension of something within Clayface that he refuses to let out. Specifically, his conscience. Perhaps that's also why he was fixated on taking her back. Seeing her drove him crazy because she was such a good person. As for the whole suit thing he wore in Mudslide... I think it was just meant to look like an Oscar.
There is an interpretation of Annie out there on the interwebs that Clayface divided his mind to create Annie, and she represents Hagen's true identity unleashed from his pathologies. Thus she wears a choker, something that crossdressers wore to hide their adam's apples.
Clayface was in 3 episodes? Batman TAS was so amazing because I loved characters who were barely in it. Clayface, Ventriloquist, Mr. Freeze, Riddler. Those must have been great episodes
Technically he’s been in five, three episodes focused on him, then he made an appearance in a Christmas special, and then appeared in two episodes of justice league
Sure beats Count Vertigo, who only appeared once (B: TAS S1E50 - "Off Balance") and probably died via a hard river fall... at least somebody perishes in such a manner.
in my childhood memory there's a hundred hundred episodes, and each great villain has a dozen or more. you're so right how it speaks to the quality of it imo.
I always thought they were in a relationship but I never felt sure, especially with the way he treated Teddy and the fact that he got so close with that doctor lady. But now I can be sure!
That’s a valid take. I think I agree, but I do have some lingering doubts, given that this version of the character was designed to be inherently queer.
@@SerumLake I understand however the transphobic allegory in the episode with his daughter(? Werid pseudo-clone?) wouldn't work unless he was literally removing that part of him self . Besides it could still fit the queer reading if we liken this to drag.
Actually just noticed that the car they put Matt Hagen inside of after dousing him in chemicals looks very similar to the white topped car Montgomery Clift crashed on the night of his accident. Even Hagen slumped over the steering wheel might be a direct reference.
A great video as usual! You can tell the creators had an absolute blast with Clayface. Just look at the animation in Feat of Clay, it's a thing of beauty, especially during his breakdown where he starts flipping through personalities. I feel the show really did a great job capturing the tragedy of the man and his loss of identity, an actor who loses his true self and can only really live through mimicking others. It's a haunting concept for sure.
@@SerumLakeI swear, I don't even think the likes of Walker, Lolita Ritmanis, and Kristopher Carter ever made a disappointing track. Helps that their tracks do make even weak episodes like "Prophecy of Doom" still worth not skipping once in a while.
@@RabbitShirak Different versions of Batman are different levels of OP. BTAS Batman is pretty low-powered, but good enough for a retro-tech world. Silver Age comics Clayface would have been a good match there, but he got amped up during the '80s.
The beauty of Clayface isn't in what was intended. It's what was presented. People can take away whatever they want from art. That's why it IS art. Basil Karlo is just... Fascinating.
No clue how I never picked up on the inherent transness of clayface. But when you put his transformations all side by side like that it clicked for me. And now it makes so much sense. Of course Clayface is the shapeshifter of batman's rogues gallery, and there is an inherent transness in the shapeshifter archetype. But all of this subtext just makes it that much better in Hagen's case. Also!! Stella in mudslide reminded me of Mudface in James Tynion IV's Victim Syndicate arc in Detective Comics. Glory Griffen was a production assistant on one of Clayface's films and actually tried to stop his rampage but was horrifically disfigured by chemicals in the process. The idea of this person that knew Clayface in his earlier life is a fun little thing character that I appreciate seeing. And both Glory and Stella have an idea of who Clayface is that they want him to conform to. Stella sees the man, but Glory sees the monster.
It’s a shame we will probably never see The Victim Syndicate again, unless Tynion returns to writing a Batman book. I have no idea who The First Victim could be…
Steve Perry response reminded me of the director of the Pixar film Luca where many people had their own interpretations of the movie and what it stood for, and he responded with “that wasn’t my intention but I welcome those readings”
That's the right way to respond. An artist loses control over the media they produce once its out of their hands. They may not understand what they worked on, the implications or intentions of others, or simply be blocked by their own biases and limited perspective. Or pretention in some cases. Acknowledging and respecting the audience as part of the equation of media creation and consumption is very mature. Whether or not it was intended doesn't necessarily matter as much as its presence. Anti-queer, anti-disabled, and anti-jewish tropes exist as unintended conventions of culture and industry as much as intentional hostility.
@@AedanTheGrey I mean there’s a lot of people who have different interpretations of The Big Lebowski from this big philosophical piece to people who just view it as a funny movie and nothing more.
I don't know I think it says more about his state of mind as a narcissist than anything honestly as an actor he honed his ability to project a facade and further Shield has already fragile sense of self as a master of his craft that's why he takes great pleasure in deception whether he's gay, bi or straight it seems like even as a mortal man addicted to the drug that was the more direct metaphor that he can only project for so long and it's exhausting and you pointed out he was basically in a relationship with an alternate version of himself and while he was at a peak an inferior version which would have made him feel even more Superior and secure whatever Dynamic you ascribe to it that screams narcissism
Is Clayface Genderfluid now? Honestly I think Clayface is who Clayface identifies himself as. Despite being able to shapeshift/transform his appearance into either male or female, I think he identifies as male still, even if he can present himself as both.
I don't think BTAS Clayface is genderfluid. Rather, i think he's someone struggling with dysphoria. Contrary to popular belief, dysphoria is not limited to trans people. A common example of cis people feeling dysphoria is when women have to get one or both of their breasts removed due to breast cancer. Many of them either wear prosthetics or even get implants afterwards because not having breasts gives them dysphoria. Dysphoria is a hatred of your own body, feeling as though it does not reflect who you are. Clayface has been disfigured to the point of no longer being human. His "manhood" - both literally and figuratively - was taken away from him. As such, a core part of his identity was ripped away from him. He no longer knows who he is. In his mind, if he's no longer a man, then what is he? He knows how to put on a mask and pretend to be someone else. His personas are like desperate attempts to find himself. He keeps trying different roles in the hopes of finding himself, of finally finding something that fits. But nothing does. Imo, it would be a bad idea to make Clayface genderfluid. Not only is the "shapeshifting nonbinary/genderfluid" character cliche, but it's really not as progressive as people think.
When his first episode released my mom walked in to see the gangsters force feeding chemicals scene. I wasn't allowed to watch the show for like a month after that lol
It's fascinating to me how much of this subtext has been reinterpreted in the comics - it may not have been intentional on the BTAS writers' parts, but the stabilization of power as a gender metaphor and the cycle of abuse are both central and unsubtle in Clayface's Rebirth arc, so it's certainly intentional now. Even Annie (well, a riff on her) gets some interesting opportunity for interpretation.
Oh yeah, 100%! James Tynion has been pretty open about how much he loves BTAS, and even updated Clayface’s origin to include Renuyu and Roland Daggett. I really didn’t like what they did with Clayface during the New 52 reboot, but I really enjoyed the Rebirth stuff.
You know, I did get some vibes that Teddy and Clayface had something more than friendship going on, at least after watching it as an adult. But I didn't know that he was supposed to be an actual partner.
Clayface is my favorite Batman villain of all time, maybe even favorite dc character period and it’s videos like this that really put it into words. I myself am genderfluid so I can see where the point of him being fluid comes from but I think for him it’s like- no matter what form he is in he is himself deep down. Yes he may appear to be this attractive woman and using she/her at the time but that’s just a face he puts on.
@@SerumLake I think it was just part of how brilliant the show was written. There was just enough that if you saw it, it was there, but if you didn't, the show was still impactful.
i think, by the nature of his powers, clayface is bisexual (maybe homoromantic, factoring in his interactions with Stella in Mudslide), but in terms of gender, i think he is genderfuild by means of opportunity. the female forms he takes fall into 2 categories: when going on the offensive, he uses a larger agressive female form; while in hiding, he'll take smaller female forms. the clayface episodes show that he's at a subtextual climax when he has control over not only in his life, but someone else's, like any narcissist would. another way at looking annie's death, while not taking away it's traumatic weight or excusing clayface for his actions, from the perspective of a trauma-victim (turned abuser), annie (even if it was just to use her as eyes for himself while he recovers) is what he believes he is in his weakened (emasculated) state.
That was a very neat way of summarising his character, and I appreciate your insights. I particularly liked your observation about the meaning behind the physiques of the women he presents as.
@@SerumLake thank you, i am just nerd who thinks way too much about this stuff. i also think the reason why clayface took a female form, in the last scene of Feet of Clay, is because the mass sacrificed to make a husk, faking his death, and getting away. also, it's a case of misdirection: if authorities are looking for a male, they're not going to spend energy on someone of the opposite gender.
@@jennifergilbert6532 yes, that makes perfect sense. If they were even looking for him, they wouldn’t suspect a petite attractive woman (which is precisely who I would suspect, knowing he’s a shape changer! 😂) Again, thanks for sharing your thoughts!
On being genderfluid I'm also not a pro but since he is an actor I imagine he's fine portraying anyone for a short time and throwing his voice to sell the illusion. Like putting on a feminine voice won't kill you it's just keeping that up constantly and societal expectations or knowing your voice is constantly getting deeper, that's where gender questioning starts. It might be interesting if he sees himself as more "fluid" being less of a human but his normal voice is still pretty masculine or close to his original voice, maybe it's just how getting a voice actor goes. I'd imagine he's still a man at heart but with all the trauma and being able to get away with female characters in an instant I wouldn't dismiss he doesn't consider either sex more often. It's probably a new development unless he acted a skit of Some Like it Hot.
Might be an in-canon explanation but the two woman disguises Clayface takes on in Feat of Clay were voiced by Mari Devon, usually the voice of Summer Gleeson. Ron Perlman only voiced Matt Hagen and Clayface's main form in that episode. That being said it would be cool if Ron Perlman could just do a passable cis woman's voice himself, or they hired a voice actor who could do that as well as a passable cis man's voice. It's possible to learn how to do this (many trans women do, as well as other transfeminine and genderfluid people, and sometimes cis men just do it for the fun of it) and I honestly find it fascinating. A major reason I'm still going ahead with voice training is that I just think it's so cool to be able to pull this off
I've watched this video before, but watching it again, I'm struck by how great of a video this is. This is the peak of film analysis; introducing a new idea that enriches the original content upon rewatch without "replacing" it. As left-field as the interpretation seems at first, each step along the way has evidence that really just clicks into place without really reaching or selectively omitting parts of the original work. When I rewatched this video, it was immediately after rewatching the episode, and the theme you bring up about a deep self-loathing really made everything click to me, explaining a lot of the character beyond "They're mean because we have to establish the villain as mean".
I'm surprised no one has mentioned this but I think the supposive death of clayface is suppose to mirror the death of the little mermaid in the original tale where she became seafoam, the original little mermaid story was made by a gay man and is a story about forbidden gay love. I wonder if I am thinking too much into this and is a coincidence or done on purpose 🤔
That's a great observation. It wouldn't surprise me if that was true, even if on a subconscious level. Even if that wasn't intentional, if you can see it then it's there.
This is very fascinating as a queer person myself. And I’d love to talk about it. I’ve been part of the lgbt community as a trans bisexual woman for a while now and have learned a lot when it comes to sexuality and gender identity. Now that isn’t to say I’m as educated as I’d like to be but that doesn’t mean I haven’t been around the block. What I want to help possibly clear up is clayfaces gender identity. Now we can see he doesn’t even feel like a man anymore and soon feels comfortable changing into different sexes and styles that relate to genders. I wouldn’t say this means that he has now changed his gender though. not at all more so he’s just simply comfortable with the idea of putting on a face regardless of what that looks like. Gender is a feeling a state of mind and identity that a person chooses to feel most comfortable and like themselves. It really doesn’t have to do with the sex of the person or anatomy at all. Not even the stereotypical styles a man or woman and what they wear or “should” act like apply since why can’t a guy wear nail polish right? No what I think is that he still wants to identify as a man and misses the man he was. We see this especially in the next episode mudslide as he is trying desperately to revert back to what he feels like is him and what is normal to him. So really he still identity’s as a man but doesn’t feel like one cause how could he? He’s turned into this monster melting around like a freakish blob his original body is gone forever that would be horrifying and make anyone feel less human. So do I think this changed clayfaces gender? No not at all. With that I love the idea of the next episode in the new Batman adventures with his daughter being a trans allegory. As a trans person myself I say while I doubt that was the original intention it can 100% be seen as such and can really show what it’s like to be a trans person with a unaccepting parent who wants to fit you into their mold their idea of what you should be. And so they want to consume you into that idea. I’ve dealt with this in my personal life and once you brought it up it blew my mind with how that episode really relates to the experience. So yeah that’s my 2 cents. I also of course understand and love the implication and tragedy of feat of clay parts 1 and 2 as I think that also really shows a hidden message of the aid crisis. Though I must say it is very sad and it’s hard seeing more tragic queer art as we have a lot of that already that takes much more problematic toxic forms though I don’t think that was really the intention here. So yeah I’m queer af and love Batman
I rewatched Feat Of Clay just a few hours ago and Matt and Teddy being a couple completely went over my head, but in hindsight I can definitely see it.
It's been a long time since I watched Mudslide, but I never felt Clayface's attraction to the female doctor was remotely genuine, especailly since pretty much everything he said to her romantically was basically copied verbatim from his old movie scripts as we saw him parroting lines she had watched in his movies in another part of the episode. So I think his hetero leanings there were literally performative.
Mudslide gives me a Frank/Julia Cotton vibe. She's in love with a persona, while the man uses that persona, and violence, to get her to help him, and both are ultimately almost successful, but foiled at the last minute.
Just found your channel and have been watching your villain videos, but just wanted to say how insightful this one was. Can't believe how much of this I missed even as a trans adult myself watching them a second time, but it all certainly makes sense.
I wouldn’t call Annie a “trans” metaphor thats a bit of a stretch. Id personally call it a display of the parent who can’t see you as a sovereign individual. The metaphorical mother who “smothers” the child’s growth as a person to keep it as a part of them
Sounds to me like the queer subtext was intentional on the part of some people from the production team, but neither dictated nor necessarily understood by the directors
Well, I think what Steve was saying is that he didn't set out to add as much queer subtext as possible, but I'd argue that doesn't mean that it isn't there, especially when others on the creative team were very deliberate about it, as you say.
One quick thing that doesn’t super matter, equating queerness with adult topics is sorta a phallacy. Well at least it’s as adult as the idea of straight cis people. It was just peoples attitudes in the 90’s and tbh today that makes people say it is
I totally missed the queer subtext in Clayface's episodes of BTAS--and I was a gay rights ally in college when I watched the show! Damn, Autism! I had no "gaydar!"
I mean ngl if my Spleen started walking around and had a mind and relationships of its own I'd probably just let it have it. Maybe try to give it bad dating advice, send it a cake after puzzling out if we share the same birthday or if we should count the day it left as its. I guess the latter makes more sense? Can spleens eat cake? Congratulations, Spleen, you've graduated to just being a really weird looking child.
I just watched Feat of Clay episodes. I was just comparing the animations between the two parts and missed all the good writing completely. Great essay.
My memories of the show are a bit different than your prognosis of the themes of the characters so bear with me here. I think this is less about sexual identity as this is more about the philosophy and struggle of the human condition. Mat Hagan's tragedy is that he's a failed actor who suffers a tragedy himself. The blessing in his tragic fate is that he's given a gift into make up for his inability to act by becoming whatever he imagines; except himself. There is a real danger in method acting that we see time and again damaging actors to the point of being beyond repair; or something worse. This is why Batman will know what Hagan wants: to become HIMSELF again. That's why the episode of him trying to reclaim his old shape and face is so palpable. His humanity is at stake, and he sees Batman is trying to rob him of his humanity. Dehumanizing others is a constant in society and I feel like a lot of people can sympathize with Clayface in that we can often become a monster if we're forced into his circumstances. That's my take, anyways.
As for Annie, she has her own loss of humanity and struggles with coming to terms with it. You could say that there is a correlation between her memory loss of being a creation of Hagan is an emulation of abuse. The show certainly didn't shy away with Clayface being seen more human in this episode than his other episode appearances. Once Annie realizes she is Clayface she views herself as not even worth saving which Robin, being a good kid, doesn't see her any differently. When he's about to die for her, Annie doesn't even think twice and lunges at Hagan; sacrificing herself in the process. It's a real dark scene, and you even see Tim's darkness come through as he tries to kill Clayface if he doesn't bring her back. And when he admits he can't, he still tries to erase him, seeing him as less than human because of what he did to his friend. As bitter as the ending is, I love the final scene to show that Robin values a person who didn't even think she had value herself. By calling Clayface a murderer, he affirms that Annie IS and was a human in his eyes. It's damned tragic and I love they made an episode with such nuance and depth.
Except Hagen isn't a failed actor he's a Hollywood superstar, a critical and commercial darling whose "death scene" even initially fools Batman. So I don't understand that "failed actor part"
@@adamantiiispencespence4012 I made an error, I cross wired the Mat Hagen from The Batman with Btas version. That one is a terrible actor, whereas the Btas one isn't.
There were four people who took on the name Clayface in the Batman comics. The first Clayface was Basil Carlo who was a movie actor who went mad after his movie, The Terror, was being remade and the second Clayface was Matt Hagan who was a treasure hunter who fell into a pool of magic clay and became the shape shifting Clayface. This Clayface is a fusion of both the first and second Clayface!
Man...I just feel so bad for Matt/Clayface. Was he a good person? No. But he definately didn't deserve this. But my heart freakin SHATTERED when Annie died. Like holy fuckin shit
It's interesting that he says "I'm not an actor, not EVEN a man". I feel like that implies that even though he relied on the chemicals, when he was an actor he still felt above everyone else. He likely felt that arrogance before his accident, and was desperate to hold onto it. As clayface, he is not just reverted back to being "even a man" like everyone else, but a monster. Basically it's interesting he seems to view himself being an actor as more important than being a mere man.
Hello. Recently found your channel. Im really liking your videos, especially this one. Anyways, I wanted to respond to your question at 8:20 about clayface being gender fluid. I am a trans person and a comic book nerd so I think I have an interesting perspective to bring to this question. In my opinion, a shapeshifting character in fiction being willing to switch between being male and female doesn't necessarily mean they are trans. Gender has an internal component. What makes someone trans is not really about how they look, its about how they perceive themselves. Shapeshifting changes the person's body, but that doesn't necessarily mean it changes how they perceive their own identity. Some shapeshifters might change from male to female (or vice versa) in order to hide from an enemy, or trick an opponent, etc. This change might be a disguise rather than a reveal of their true inner self. To be fair, I understand why someone might assume a connection between being a shapeshifter and being trans. Its actually quite common in sci-fi/fantasy stories for characters to be both trans and a shapeshifter or for shapeshifting to be used as an allegory. Thats not necessarily a bad thing either. The first trans character I ever read was a character named Xavin from the comic The Runaways. They were a shapeshifting Skrull who was equally comfortable in a male or female form. That character was really important for me when I was a teenager and still figuring myself out. Personally, I just think that not every shapeshifter willing to change their body like that is trans. Some are, some aren't. What matters in regards to this question is how the character perceives themselves. Based on what Ive seen of this version of clayface, I think he uses his female forms more as disguises rather than self expression. I don't think he is gender fluid. At least, thats my interpretation.
With all due respect I agreed on some if not most of your points but I think some of the gender and sexual analogies is on my opinion overplayed but I agree maybe a factor. In my opinion I think has more do with actors struggling with identity problems in general and we must remember modern day opinions on sex,gender and unfortunately politics can affect people talking about their past work giving it more credence than it was at the time to fit in with the modern cultural and political ideas to look cool to their peers or future potential employers just my opinion I maybe wrong myself we all are we are only human afer all. Thanks for Reading.
@@12toro What's complicated? It means people see what they want to see, not what is - someone who's gay might see the relationship Matt has with his friend as gay, but there's nothing actually within the context of the story to confirm that. You have to read far too much into it to to IMAGINE that. To claim it is a gay story is to project your own thoughts, not what actually is. Because it's not a gay story, even if that was the intent.
Right, because it's impossible for two men to have a non-sexual relationship, right? Men can't show concern or care for a fellow man, eh, especially if one is presumed dead? That must be gay. You're one of those "Frodo and Sam are gay" people, aren't you? Eyerolling bullshit.
The one moment of BTAS that made me hate Batman was when Clayface was being turned back into a human, and Batman severed the tubes feeding his body the chemicals. They spilled onto the floor, useless, so it wasn't about reclaiming the stolen materials. He just didn't want Matt to be happy. It would have made WAY more sense to wait until the treatment was done, *_then_* swoop in and take him down. There was no reason to cut the feed, none.
You know what, I have a video about this very subject in my list of things to do. The key thing to remember is that he wasn't turning back into a human, he was getting greater control over his powers and would therefore become even more dangerous.
@@SerumLake Maybe, but I got the distinct impression that after that final treatment, he just wanted to settle down with the doctor. He just wanted to be human.
@@WobblesandBean if the MP49 would’ve done that, then that clay flesh lump they tested it on would’ve turned to human flesh. I think he was manipulating Stella, using her for his own ends, and I’m confident he would’ve abandoned her once he had increased his powers.
Nice vid with some interesting points. I would love to know what the writers and storyboard artists were discussing when making this episode in particular. The framing with Clay and his stunt-double is set in a manner similar to a relationship but for obvious reasons that wouldn't make it out to pass in full on a broadcast at the time, which is unfortunate. The whole dinner scene is as obvious as it gets on top of the arm holding which stood out to me even when I was a kid watching it lol. Some of the people in denial in the comments don't seem to realize that these shows are often times just vehicles for the artists and writers to communicate their own personal stories, just framed in context to the franchise's setting. Happens to literally every franchised work under the sun yet people seem to think there's this magic barrier between the show and the actual people who make it!
What’s confusing is, correct me if I’m wrong it’s been awhile since I’ve played both games, in “LEGO Batman the Video Game” the console version says his name is Basil Carlo while the handheld version is Matt Hagen. It’s the same with the Riddler too, in the console versions his name is Edward Nygma while the handheld version has it as Edward Nashton. I personally prefer Basil Carlo. A lot of the things like Mr. Freeze’s origins, Harley Quinn, and the black and white suit for Two-Face, Batgirl, Nightwing, Man-Bat, Mad Hatter, etc I experienced for the first time from LEGO Batman. In fact the designs for Batgirl, Harley Quinn, Man-Bat, Two-Face, the Joker, Mr. Freeze, Poison Ivy, and Clayface were pulled straight from the animated series. I’m not including Robin because that was the Robin costume that Tim Drake was wearing in the comics during that time, and the Robin suit design for Dick Grayson was based heavily on that. Tim Drake would go on to wear the red and black Robin suit seen in the New Batman Adventures in the comics which was later adapted into “LEGO Batman 2”. Strangely enough in the animated movie, “Batman: Under the Red Hood”, Jason Todd is wearing that Robin costume when he’s killed by the Joker.
I wouldn’t worry too much about the continuity of the Lego games. Remember that these people are game designers that were given a license, and not necessarily experts on the lore (and it can be very confusing at times!!!) Although, on the subject of their Clayface’s real name, there was an issue of Detective Comics that showed Basil Karlo using the name Matt Hagen as a stage name when he went for auditions. It was only mentioned once and will probably be retconned, but I liked that.
The coolest thing about the story of Clayface is that it molds into so many different world views. I for example am Catholic and I also struggle with SSA (same sex attraction) and Clayface could as easily be a reminder as to how all our sins are connected. His vanity and pride leads to wrath. He can be viewed as a reminder that sin can rob you of your humanity.
I had to have it pointed out to me too. Upon reflection, Teddy was very clearly not talking about his job when he said “WE can go on” in Feat of Clay Part 2
@@SerumLake didn't one of them say we've been together for years or something to that effect? If so, I just took it as how long they've been working together. I lie to you not 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I don’t see growing pains as a trans thing I see it more a family abuse coming to its conclusion if no one truly steps in and saves the child or in the case of Robin, trying to save someone, but in the end, not strong enough to save her
I completely did not see the queerness of the original Clayface story when I first saw this episode, which honestly was when I was in highschool and could stream it online (I couldn't watch it when I was younger because shabas made watching Sat Morning cartoons near impossible), but it's so obvious upon watching it again (especially via word of God from the creators). It really makes the story so much more dramatic, deep, and inherently sad/tragic. All this from a "childrens" cartoon. Awesome stuff. You learn something new every day.
I watched the episode of clay face for the first time in 30 plus years today and realized teddy was his lover. Something totally missed as a kid cause I was a kid 😂
he's a dude with shapeshifting powers oh god this old debate i hate it people take simple concepts and ramp them into parodies of what they're supposed to be but only in the west accept reality and be the PERSON you wanna be that's it that's all
As someone with, um, dissociative identities... That Annie scene hurts. I've had to watch a lot of "selves" emerge, start developing their own identity, learning who they are, experiencing the world, and then just... Falling back into me. And I'm the worst one, I'm the one that should disappear, I'm the one that shouldn't survive. I don't want to reabsorb them but I can't help it. They always know they're disappearing. They always forgive me. But how can I forgive myself?
![BOWKYLION - วิงวอน (ex-change) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cLdnZWDaO-w/mqdefault.jpg)
This episode is living-proof that you don't need to show actual blood and gore to be completely and utterly terrifying.
Just create the right atmosphere.......leave them in suspense......AND SURPRISE THEM WITH A FRIGHT!!!!!
Same with “Robin’s Reckoning.” The fact that we don’t see the Flying Graysons land, only the reactions to their deaths, makes it so much worse.
@@tysondennis1016 Yeah. Same with Batman Beyond Return of the Joker. His "censored" death, where he's electrocuted off-screen, where you hear the electricity and his absolute agonized guttural scream, but all you get to see is Batgirl react to it, is far more horrifying than his uncensored shooting death. It's just so quick and savage.
One thing I adore about Teddy, Clayface's partner, is that despite his new affliction and appearance, he didn't care what he looked like. Not even in the slightest. He didn't run in terror or shame, he stood by his side to the very end. Even when Clayface was shouting and screaming at him. Teddy truly cared for Matt even when he became Clayface, he never ran from him. He tried his damn best to help him. But Matt was gone, and Clayface was all that was left.
*So a W Mans thru and thru*
I love Teddy, he is a true friend, it's too bad he was stuck with Matt who became toxic and unable to stay a true friend anymore.
Sisters, Bros, nonbinary folks? Find yourself someone as accepting as teddy, as compassionate as Bruce, as loyal as Dick/Richard, and as caring as Tim. ((BTW loyal doesn't mean they don't know when to walk away. Its actually the opposite))
Teddy deserved so much better. He was loyal and caring, but his boyfriend was abusive and controlling.
HOLY SHIT IT JUST HIT ME, HE TAKES ON THE FORM OF AN ATTRACTIVE WOMAN TO GO UNDETECTED BY TEDDY, BECAUSE AN ATTRACTIVE WOMAN IS THE LAST THING A GAY MAN WOULD BE INTERESTED IN
lmao probably
That actually makes a lot of sense lol
Or, you know; his boyfriend/partner just died for all he knew.
Same energy as Luthor hiding at a barber shop
WAIT WHAT IM 10
A notable aspect of Annie and Clayface's refusal to accept her identity is possibly thay those that fall into the queer identity but then are abused for it are more likely to, like you said, become abusers, including of their own children. If their children go on to also match their own experience, they feel possibly betrayed, either by their child or the world, that the child gets to live a happy queer life while the abuser had to suffer, and thereby the abuser feels a need to correct this supposed injustice. In this sense, Clayface could not accept that this reproduction of him could both be happy or have a life or their own without knowledge of the hardships of the world that he experienced.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Preach.
There's nothing "queer" or "trans" about it, you modern-thinker.
@@wesmcinerny4524Calling someone a modern-thinker as an insult is one of the most idiotic thing I've ever seen, obviously using modern morals and philosophies on historical events is wrong, but that's not what's happening here, the director straight up said Clayface was meant to be in a gay relationship, that's not modern thinking, that's pointing at the obvious fact that their was queer influence in the story.
To be fair,his main annoyance is that she was part of him. I mean,imagine if part of you became sentient,he effectively generated another personality inside his own flesh/clay/body. That’s why the trans allegory seems a little unlikely to me but I’m not trans and I’ve not seen the episode so what do I know? I could be wrong,I’ve been wrong before and I’ll be wrong again. To me,it reads more as DID,where one mind effectively fractures into multiple individual minds,each sentient. My very limited understanding of the condition is that one treatment is to effectively try to rejoin all parts of the mind together again,which is basically what Clayface does but I wonder how it’d feel to be assimilated into one personality if you were an alter
Clayface horrified me as a kid, because obviously, but I also became fascinated with him. That fascination has made me see the many layers of metaphors that create him, more than many other villians. Most other villians are one main concept turned into a person, but Clayface is a mix of queer metaphors, the way actors can be treated, the cycles of abuse... He's surprisingly complex and I'm happy he scared that little me so long ago.
I can’t believe I forgot about Growing Pains. That episode left a major impact on me as a kid.
To be fair, the same thing somehow happened to me when it came to a lot of eps from Batman Beyond and Static Shock until recently.
me too, i miss this character so much😢😢
The clayface episodes are all very complex, and I think it is good how these stories are up to these forms of interpretation. Whether intended or not, a good and deep series of episodes.
Yes, the Clayface episodes may not be the best ones, but they’re definitely the most interesting ones
@@SerumLake well I don't know about queerness to validate or disprove your claims but I do see these episodes as stories about disability and what being crippled actually means in a world who would be much more comfortable sweeping it under the rug, mind you the show took its influence after mid 40's and early 50's American art after all.
That’s an interesting take that I had never considered before. Thanks for sharing it.
@@SerumLake you're welcome.
If only we got a proper end to the character besides being firework'd in Justice League's "Secret Society".
Tbh I don't think he's genderfluid (at least not this version the Harley Quinn show Clayface definitely is)
I think this version of Mat is just a good actor and is willing to play any role he feels benefits him at the time.
Yes, I think you’re right. One of the other commentators on this video made a really good point about Clayface choosing his form depending on the situation he’s in. When he wants to be inconspicuous he’ll take the form of a young woman, or a little girl, like Annie. I think that’s a very good observation that I hadn’t noticed before.
People can read into anything.
That's what I thought at first, especially after seeing so many cis/het actors such as Dustin Hoffman, Robin Williams, Patrick Swayze, John Leguizamo, and Wesley Snipes, etc. play drag parts in "Tootsie," "Mrs. Doubtfire," "To Wong Fu..." etc. often for ulterior (non-trans) motives, probably following Hayes Code tradition.
If anything he's...Gendersolid 🥁
@@androidmk5987You proud of that pun?
While the official material describes him as becoming as ugly and distorted on the inside as he is on the outside, I would argue the opposite. Matt Hagen was vain, yes, but his biggest issue was his inability to process stress in a healthy way, leading him to become abusive to his lover and lash out at anything and anyone around him. This may or may not have been the case prior to his initial injury, but was absolutely the case before becoming Clayface. Upon his transformation, he could no longer hide from the fact that he couldn't even control himself (both physically and emotionally), and had a constant visual reminder of the monster he had become. If his "I'm not even a man anymore" remark is in regards to shame over his own helplessness, this would further support the idea that the only thing that really makes him a villain is his own inability to look inside himself and accept his own faults. Which, I suppose, does lead back to the point of vanity after all.
I agree, entirely.
For years I had misremembered that Dini quote - as you said, it makes more sense the other way around. Clayface is who Hagen was on the inside, and his ugly exterior now reflects his interior.
Only comment needed on entire thread. Thank you. That's exactly what I learned.
When "Feat of Clay" first came out, my younger brother (who was 9 at the time!) instantly picked up on the same-sex relationship.
I KNEW there was something off about it too.
No way my friend would ever be so touchy feely with me.
Guy friends don't act that way.
Fun fact: Clay face was voiced by Ron Pearlman who would go on to play Clay in Sons of anarchy
I wonder if Teddy ever found out Matt was still alive or if Stella found out he survived Mudslide.
I think they would’ve seen him on the news and have been very hurt that he never reached out to them. It’s a shame this was never touched on again in the tie in comics.
@@SerumLakeYou mean *"even* in the tie-in comics"?
Still, yeah, so many loose ends put aside in the DCAU (and even then, said tie-ins are Schrodinger's canon, so not all of them fit in the continuity). Would love to flesh them out and give them some closure akin to a bunch of Star Wars Legends stuff like the tale of Tenn Graneet (the Death Star gunner who said "Stand by... stand by").
That's the ONLY QUESTION that should of been asked.
@@SerumLake That's assuming Teddy is still in Gotham when that happens. For all we know, he might've died or moved out of Gotham. I like to think that he moved away. That would probably be the best for him.
Clayface's sex and gender identity is an interesting subject. Personally, i think it's safe to say that Clayface, as an anthropomorphic blob, has no defined sex in the human sense. But, it is impossible to make assumptions on his gender identity simply because we never got to know this version of Matt Hagan well enough beforehand, and it would stand to reason that his gender identity wouldn't change along with his body. Just to clarify my thoughts and how I've come to define these terms...I've always thought of "sex" as the purely physical, biological, and chromosomal components one is born with, whereas "gender" incompasses all the psychological and emotional aspects of the self. For some, these things are in sync, and for others, they are not. Your mileage may vary.
Thanks for sharing your well considered thoughts. I think that Clayface is by far the most interesting villain in BTAS, and I’m genuinely surprised by some of the negative comments I’ve received on this video, so it’s always nice to see someone actually engaging with the topic!
Gender can technically refer to both (and since sex is a dirty word,it can be more comfortable to use the term gender). That’s why gender identity and physical gender are terms,to help define the difference
@@birdmcturd1626agree.
Yeah I use it the same way.
I don't think of sex as a dirty word, but then again I do study biology.
I really feel sorry for Matt Hagan's Clayface. A life ruined by a corrupt industrialist and made into another of Batman's rogue's gallery. He, like Two-Face and Mr. Freeze, is a tragic character.
His moment when he remarks to Teddy that he's not an actor any more, or even human, and breaks down, is heartbreaking.
As for queer or genderfluid...that never occurred to me watching the episodes with him.
Two-Face and Mr. Freeze are distinctly more sympathetic though. Matt showed a willingness to murder to get his precious cream, while Harvey was at the mercy of a psychological disorder and Victor Fries was turned into a sociopathic person through means beyond his control. His initial motivation for revenge is also completely understandable and sympathetic. The Riddler is actually a character that doesn't come up as much as he should regarding sympathetic villains, likely due to the pain and suffering not being present, and seemingly lessened due to a suave persona. Edward was robbed of millions and credit was also taken for his idea. Being an inmate at Arkham implies due to enduring a grave injustice, he psychologically snapped in murderous fashion, largely absolving him of his future villainous actions, which certainly aren't in the league of other Batman rogues - He doesn't murder willy nilly.
People like Baby Doll, The Mad Hatter, Calendar Girl, Harley, and The Clock King are sympathetic in their own way too. Maximillian Zeus and The Ventriloquist are especially sympathetic and it's cool that the latter got a happy ending. I think Harvey and Harley were apparently going to have one, but no one really had the foresight of a sequel series likely getting made for the transition from Fox to WB, and The Ventriloquist ended up getting one instead.
Wow. I never realised how complex the Clayface episodes were. I knew they were nuanced, but I never knew about the queer subtext. It makes me appreciate Clayface even more.
Yeah, his episodes may not be the very best of the best, but they're some of the most interesting episodes.
I always just took Annie as toxic parents not wanting their kids to make friends with someone they didn't like but the trans angle feels like I missed a stop sign at a 4 way intersection. Like how did I not?
If it makes you feel better I didn’t get that ether.
We were kids back when we saw this. So much of it went over our heads. Dude, the Baby Doll episode broke me as an adult.
I mean that's a very valid reading as well
5:37 The way Teddy grabs Matt arms has so much affection in it.
Yes, Matt was his sentimental partner
I always felt Annie deserved some new incarnation. I mean having an ally who has some Clayface powers would be a fun thing to play with if you ask me.
I think that way, even bringing her back would be a good idea, in fact
Too bad that Weisman and Vietti are not interested at the moment
The Harley Quinn comics special, "The Real Sidekicks of New Gotham Special #1", has an Annie that's just as wildly rebooted as Clayface. In this one, Karlo creates her to pass an audition in Las Vegas, only to completely forget her existence and abandon her in a motel room because of his flakiness. She escapes and creates a life by turning into a shallow teenager who hangs out with rich kids, but eventually has an encounter with her father where she has to rescue him. He promises to give her a life as a show biz brat in Los Angeles, and she ends up being interviewed as an overwrought Emo girl who turns into a monster at the slightest offense.
I know the Annie fans at Deviantart will hate it, but I'm excited for more.
@@warheadsnation I actually love it. For that world that is a great interpretation. And itnopens the door for other writers to adapt her in many new ways.
I have always liked the idea of that Annie really *was* always Clayface, being a sort of manifestation of Matt's love and good in him or (if I'm feeling daring) Clayface having some sort of DID after being so many people (except for his "original self") after so long-It'd be nice to see her become a new (and redeemed) Clayface after fighting his/her/their inner demons.
I mean, there are versions of Clayface where he is a close ally of the Batfamily so...
...eh, probably just me.
Ron Pearlman freakin killed it as Clayface! Legit stunning performance from him!
I see Clayface as bi, but ultimately, he doesn't love anyone other than himself. As for his gender, I think he's male, but an actor. Even back in the day, it was not uncommon for men to play the parts of women even now. Clayface is an actor and whatever form he is taking on is a costume. Moreover, Annie is not really his offspring, but... an extension of something within Clayface that he refuses to let out. Specifically, his conscience. Perhaps that's also why he was fixated on taking her back. Seeing her drove him crazy because she was such a good person. As for the whole suit thing he wore in Mudslide... I think it was just meant to look like an Oscar.
There is an interpretation of Annie out there on the interwebs that Clayface divided his mind to create Annie, and she represents Hagen's true identity unleashed from his pathologies. Thus she wears a choker, something that crossdressers wore to hide their adam's apples.
Clayface was in 3 episodes? Batman TAS was so amazing because I loved characters who were barely in it. Clayface, Ventriloquist, Mr. Freeze, Riddler. Those must have been great episodes
Technically he’s been in five, three episodes focused on him, then he made an appearance in a Christmas special, and then appeared in two episodes of justice league
Sure beats Count Vertigo, who only appeared once (B: TAS S1E50 - "Off Balance") and probably died via a hard river fall... at least somebody perishes in such a manner.
in my childhood memory there's a hundred hundred episodes, and each great villain has a dozen or more. you're so right how it speaks to the quality of it imo.
I always thought they were in a relationship but I never felt sure, especially with the way he treated Teddy and the fact that he got so close with that doctor lady. But now I can be sure!
idk, I think both men were in live with the same guy, one of them being himself
When I watched these eps as an adult I realized the friend of his was his life partner on the spot.
Flew right over my head, I had to have it pointed out to me. Feel a little silly for not seeing it sooner 😂
I don't think he's gender fluid he's an actor puting on parts that fit his needs
That’s a valid take. I think I agree, but I do have some lingering doubts, given that this version of the character was designed to be inherently queer.
@@SerumLake I understand however the transphobic allegory in the episode with his daughter(? Werid pseudo-clone?) wouldn't work unless he was literally removing that part of him self .
Besides it could still fit the queer reading if we liken this to drag.
@@SerumLakeis that Canon?
Actually just noticed that the car they put Matt Hagen inside of after dousing him in chemicals looks very similar to the white topped car Montgomery Clift crashed on the night of his accident. Even Hagen slumped over the steering wheel might be a direct reference.
A great video as usual! You can tell the creators had an absolute blast with Clayface. Just look at the animation in Feat of Clay, it's a thing of beauty, especially during his breakdown where he starts flipping through personalities. I feel the show really did a great job capturing the tragedy of the man and his loss of identity, an actor who loses his true self and can only really live through mimicking others. It's a haunting concept for sure.
And let's not forget Shirley Walker's amazing score, particularly in Feat of Clay Part 2. Clayface's theme is one of the best.
@@SerumLakeI swear, I don't even think the likes of Walker, Lolita Ritmanis, and Kristopher Carter ever made a disappointing track. Helps that their tracks do make even weak episodes like "Prophecy of Doom" still worth not skipping once in a while.
Clayface was the one villain that really felt like a threat. Every time he showed up, you legitimately felt like Batman was out of his depth.
Despite his vulnerabilities, Clayface indeed felt a hurdle too big for Batman. I know it sounds paradoxical.
@@RabbitShirak Different versions of Batman are different levels of OP. BTAS Batman is pretty low-powered, but good enough for a retro-tech world. Silver Age comics Clayface would have been a good match there, but he got amped up during the '80s.
The beauty of Clayface isn't in what was intended. It's what was presented. People can take away whatever they want from art. That's why it IS art. Basil Karlo is just... Fascinating.
But his name is Natt Hagen in BTAS
No clue how I never picked up on the inherent transness of clayface. But when you put his transformations all side by side like that it clicked for me. And now it makes so much sense. Of course Clayface is the shapeshifter of batman's rogues gallery, and there is an inherent transness in the shapeshifter archetype. But all of this subtext just makes it that much better in Hagen's case.
Also!! Stella in mudslide reminded me of Mudface in James Tynion IV's Victim Syndicate arc in Detective Comics. Glory Griffen was a production assistant on one of Clayface's films and actually tried to stop his rampage but was horrifically disfigured by chemicals in the process. The idea of this person that knew Clayface in his earlier life is a fun little thing character that I appreciate seeing. And both Glory and Stella have an idea of who Clayface is that they want him to conform to. Stella sees the man, but Glory sees the monster.
It’s a shame we will probably never see The Victim Syndicate again, unless Tynion returns to writing a Batman book. I have no idea who The First Victim could be…
Montgomery Clift was gay….. huh. I never knew that. Great actor
He is one of my favourites (second only to Marlon Brando!)
Steve Perry response reminded me of the director of the Pixar film Luca where many people had their own interpretations of the movie and what it stood for, and he responded with “that wasn’t my intention but I welcome those readings”
That's the response people give when they don't want to piss anyone off.
That's the right way to respond. An artist loses control over the media they produce once its out of their hands. They may not understand what they worked on, the implications or intentions of others, or simply be blocked by their own biases and limited perspective. Or pretention in some cases.
Acknowledging and respecting the audience as part of the equation of media creation and consumption is very mature. Whether or not it was intended doesn't necessarily matter as much as its presence.
Anti-queer, anti-disabled, and anti-jewish tropes exist as unintended conventions of culture and industry as much as intentional hostility.
@@AedanTheGrey I mean there’s a lot of people who have different interpretations of The Big Lebowski from this big philosophical piece to people who just view it as a funny movie and nothing more.
I don't know I think it says more about his state of mind as a narcissist than anything honestly as an actor he honed his ability to project a facade and further Shield has already fragile sense of self as a master of his craft that's why he takes great pleasure in deception whether he's gay, bi or straight it seems like even as a mortal man addicted to the drug that was the more direct metaphor that he can only project for so long and it's exhausting and you pointed out he was basically in a relationship with an alternate version of himself and while he was at a peak an inferior version which would have made him feel even more Superior and secure whatever Dynamic you ascribe to it that screams narcissism
That's also a valid take.
Is Clayface Genderfluid now?
Honestly I think Clayface is who Clayface identifies himself as. Despite being able to shapeshift/transform his appearance into either male or female, I think he identifies as male still, even if he can present himself as both.
I don't think BTAS Clayface is genderfluid. Rather, i think he's someone struggling with dysphoria. Contrary to popular belief, dysphoria is not limited to trans people. A common example of cis people feeling dysphoria is when women have to get one or both of their breasts removed due to breast cancer. Many of them either wear prosthetics or even get implants afterwards because not having breasts gives them dysphoria. Dysphoria is a hatred of your own body, feeling as though it does not reflect who you are. Clayface has been disfigured to the point of no longer being human. His "manhood" - both literally and figuratively - was taken away from him. As such, a core part of his identity was ripped away from him. He no longer knows who he is. In his mind, if he's no longer a man, then what is he? He knows how to put on a mask and pretend to be someone else. His personas are like desperate attempts to find himself. He keeps trying different roles in the hopes of finding himself, of finally finding something that fits. But nothing does.
Imo, it would be a bad idea to make Clayface genderfluid. Not only is the "shapeshifting nonbinary/genderfluid" character cliche, but it's really not as progressive as people think.
What you’ve said makes perfect sense to me, thanks for sharing your thoughts.
When his first episode released my mom walked in to see the gangsters force feeding chemicals scene. I wasn't allowed to watch the show for like a month after that lol
It's fascinating to me how much of this subtext has been reinterpreted in the comics - it may not have been intentional on the BTAS writers' parts, but the stabilization of power as a gender metaphor and the cycle of abuse are both central and unsubtle in Clayface's Rebirth arc, so it's certainly intentional now. Even Annie (well, a riff on her) gets some interesting opportunity for interpretation.
Oh yeah, 100%! James Tynion has been pretty open about how much he loves BTAS, and even updated Clayface’s origin to include Renuyu and Roland Daggett. I really didn’t like what they did with Clayface during the New 52 reboot, but I really enjoyed the Rebirth stuff.
Agreed. The updated origin from rebirth was good. It be perfect for a live action movie adaptation.
You know, I did get some vibes that Teddy and Clayface had something more than friendship going on, at least after watching it as an adult. But I didn't know that he was supposed to be an actual partner.
Clayface is my favorite Batman villain of all time, maybe even favorite dc character period and it’s videos like this that really put it into words. I myself am genderfluid so I can see where the point of him being fluid comes from but I think for him it’s like- no matter what form he is in he is himself deep down. Yes he may appear to be this attractive woman and using she/her at the time but that’s just a face he puts on.
Thanks for sharing your insight. I appreciate it 👍
Even as a kid, I knew there was something else going on between Matt and Teddy. Excellent writing.
It flew right over my head for years, but my wife says it has always been obvious to her. I guess I'm just naïve!
@@SerumLake I think it was just part of how brilliant the show was written. There was just enough that if you saw it, it was there, but if you didn't, the show was still impactful.
I don’t know if clayface is gender fluid, but they are literally fluid.
i think, by the nature of his powers, clayface is bisexual (maybe homoromantic, factoring in his interactions with Stella in Mudslide), but in terms of gender, i think he is genderfuild by means of opportunity. the female forms he takes fall into 2 categories: when going on the offensive, he uses a larger agressive female form; while in hiding, he'll take smaller female forms.
the clayface episodes show that he's at a subtextual climax when he has control over not only in his life, but someone else's, like any narcissist would.
another way at looking annie's death, while not taking away it's traumatic weight or excusing clayface for his actions, from the perspective of a trauma-victim (turned abuser), annie (even if it was just to use her as eyes for himself while he recovers) is what he believes he is in his weakened (emasculated) state.
That was a very neat way of summarising his character, and I appreciate your insights. I particularly liked your observation about the meaning behind the physiques of the women he presents as.
@@SerumLake thank you, i am just nerd who thinks way too much about this stuff.
i also think the reason why clayface took a female form, in the last scene of Feet of Clay, is because the mass sacrificed to make a husk, faking his death, and getting away. also, it's a case of misdirection: if authorities are looking for a male, they're not going to spend energy on someone of the opposite gender.
@@jennifergilbert6532 yes, that makes perfect sense. If they were even looking for him, they wouldn’t suspect a petite attractive woman (which is precisely who I would suspect, knowing he’s a shape changer! 😂)
Again, thanks for sharing your thoughts!
@@SerumLake thank you. i am just someone who thinks way too much about this kind of stuff.
Clayface was so terrifying when i was a kid that i asked my grandpa to watch Batman together to scare him away ! 😅
I wish I’d thought of that…
Disney: pay for the gay everybody! Pay for the gay!
Batman TAS: That’s ancient history! Been there! Done that!
On being genderfluid I'm also not a pro but since he is an actor I imagine he's fine portraying anyone for a short time and throwing his voice to sell the illusion. Like putting on a feminine voice won't kill you it's just keeping that up constantly and societal expectations or knowing your voice is constantly getting deeper, that's where gender questioning starts. It might be interesting if he sees himself as more "fluid" being less of a human but his normal voice is still pretty masculine or close to his original voice, maybe it's just how getting a voice actor goes. I'd imagine he's still a man at heart but with all the trauma and being able to get away with female characters in an instant I wouldn't dismiss he doesn't consider either sex more often. It's probably a new development unless he acted a skit of Some Like it Hot.
I find this to be a very fascinating subject.I don't think that Clayface is the best villain, but he's definitely the most interesting.
Might be an in-canon explanation but the two woman disguises Clayface takes on in Feat of Clay were voiced by Mari Devon, usually the voice of Summer Gleeson. Ron Perlman only voiced Matt Hagen and Clayface's main form in that episode.
That being said it would be cool if Ron Perlman could just do a passable cis woman's voice himself, or they hired a voice actor who could do that as well as a passable cis man's voice. It's possible to learn how to do this (many trans women do, as well as other transfeminine and genderfluid people, and sometimes cis men just do it for the fun of it) and I honestly find it fascinating. A major reason I'm still going ahead with voice training is that I just think it's so cool to be able to pull this off
Annie , Stella and Teddy deserved so much better than they did
and stella!!!!!
i agreed🥺🥺
I've watched this video before, but watching it again, I'm struck by how great of a video this is. This is the peak of film analysis; introducing a new idea that enriches the original content upon rewatch without "replacing" it. As left-field as the interpretation seems at first, each step along the way has evidence that really just clicks into place without really reaching or selectively omitting parts of the original work. When I rewatched this video, it was immediately after rewatching the episode, and the theme you bring up about a deep self-loathing really made everything click to me, explaining a lot of the character beyond "They're mean because we have to establish the villain as mean".
I don't blame you that episode can scare any child.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned this but I think the supposive death of clayface is suppose to mirror the death of the little mermaid in the original tale where she became seafoam, the original little mermaid story was made by a gay man and is a story about forbidden gay love. I wonder if I am thinking too much into this and is a coincidence or done on purpose 🤔
That's a great observation. It wouldn't surprise me if that was true, even if on a subconscious level. Even if that wasn't intentional, if you can see it then it's there.
That is very fascinating! I had no idea what The Little Mermaid was based on. I should look into it.
This is very fascinating as a queer person myself. And I’d love to talk about it. I’ve been part of the lgbt community as a trans bisexual woman for a while now and have learned a lot when it comes to sexuality and gender identity. Now that isn’t to say I’m as educated as I’d like to be but that doesn’t mean I haven’t been around the block. What I want to help possibly clear up is clayfaces gender identity. Now we can see he doesn’t even feel like a man anymore and soon feels comfortable changing into different sexes and styles that relate to genders. I wouldn’t say this means that he has now changed his gender though. not at all more so he’s just simply comfortable with the idea of putting on a face regardless of what that looks like. Gender is a feeling a state of mind and identity that a person chooses to feel most comfortable and like themselves. It really doesn’t have to do with the sex of the person or anatomy at all. Not even the stereotypical styles a man or woman and what they wear or “should” act like apply since why can’t a guy wear nail polish right? No what I think is that he still wants to identify as a man and misses the man he was. We see this especially in the next episode mudslide as he is trying desperately to revert back to what he feels like is him and what is normal to him. So really he still identity’s as a man but doesn’t feel like one cause how could he? He’s turned into this monster melting around like a freakish blob his original body is gone forever that would be horrifying and make anyone feel less human. So do I think this changed clayfaces gender? No not at all. With that I love the idea of the next episode in the new Batman adventures with his daughter being a trans allegory. As a trans person myself I say while I doubt that was the original intention it can 100% be seen as such and can really show what it’s like to be a trans person with a unaccepting parent who wants to fit you into their mold their idea of what you should be. And so they want to consume you into that idea. I’ve dealt with this in my personal life and once you brought it up it blew my mind with how that episode really relates to the experience. So yeah that’s my 2 cents. I also of course understand and love the implication and tragedy of feat of clay parts 1 and 2 as I think that also really shows a hidden message of the aid crisis. Though I must say it is very sad and it’s hard seeing more tragic queer art as we have a lot of that already that takes much more problematic toxic forms though I don’t think that was really the intention here. So yeah I’m queer af and love Batman
I rewatched Feat Of Clay just a few hours ago and Matt and Teddy being a couple completely went over my head, but in hindsight I can definitely see it.
The fact that we only see the RenewU being dumped on Matt’s face in the shadows makes it so much more horrifying.
It's been a long time since I watched Mudslide, but I never felt Clayface's attraction to the female doctor was remotely genuine, especailly since pretty much everything he said to her romantically was basically copied verbatim from his old movie scripts as we saw him parroting lines she had watched in his movies in another part of the episode. So I think his hetero leanings there were literally performative.
The metaphors continue!
The scene of Matt being force fed the vat (I saw the whole episode on the yt channel) was disturbing and Disgusting at the same time
Mudslide gives me a Frank/Julia Cotton vibe. She's in love with a persona, while the man uses that persona, and violence, to get her to help him, and both are ultimately almost successful, but foiled at the last minute.
Genderfluid? No, he's just fluid.
Lol. The perfectly timed grin on Clayface's face.
I have never seen, for the longest time, the word queer being used in a title or something of the like in a modern setting.
Good, I like that.
Just found your channel and have been watching your villain videos, but just wanted to say how insightful this one was. Can't believe how much of this I missed even as a trans adult myself watching them a second time, but it all certainly makes sense.
You’re welcome and thanks for sharing your thoughts.
I wouldn’t call Annie a “trans” metaphor thats a bit of a stretch. Id personally call it a display of the parent who can’t see you as a sovereign individual. The metaphorical mother who “smothers” the child’s growth as a person to keep it as a part of them
Sounds to me like the queer subtext was intentional on the part of some people from the production team, but neither dictated nor necessarily understood by the directors
Well, I think what Steve was saying is that he didn't set out to add as much queer subtext as possible, but I'd argue that doesn't mean that it isn't there, especially when others on the creative team were very deliberate about it, as you say.
I watched this. At least 20 times. When we still had TAPES!
6:55
TW:SA mention
maybe it could also be an allegory for being SAed (especially since clayface is closeted)
I noticed that, too. Especially with the creation of clayface scene? It seems particularly coded for an already queer character.
I felt bad for Matt hagen in 2 first episodes........but after see kill Annie........never NEVER...he doesn't deserve to be human again.
and if the tie in comics are canon, he never became human again!
@@SerumLake Good thing, but I know there are 2 clues that Annie did come back, one in an alternate universe and one in an episode of Batman Beyond.
Can you remind me of the Batman Beyond clue, because I’m drawing a blank on that reference
@@SerumLake is the episode is Mind Games .
@@mayozilla thanks, that completely flew over my head! I'll look out for it next time I watch that episode
I really appreciate your open mind for the topic of identity. I feel like people don't give queer readings enough of a chance.
this video is such a nice analysis and i can't help but just love the way you put this all into context
lovely video
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it
One quick thing that doesn’t super matter, equating queerness with adult topics is sorta a phallacy. Well at least it’s as adult as the idea of straight cis people. It was just peoples attitudes in the 90’s and tbh today that makes people say it is
Fair point!
Exactly this, Im sure there were cishet themes displayed with little fanfare or issue, but having open queers was and is still deemed obscene
I totally missed the queer subtext in Clayface's episodes of BTAS--and I was a gay rights ally in college when I watched the show! Damn, Autism! I had no "gaydar!"
I mean ngl if my Spleen started walking around and had a mind and relationships of its own I'd probably just let it have it. Maybe try to give it bad dating advice, send it a cake after puzzling out if we share the same birthday or if we should count the day it left as its. I guess the latter makes more sense? Can spleens eat cake?
Congratulations, Spleen, you've graduated to just being a really weird looking child.
The Clay Face episodes are excellent, but so sad. They made me feel sad for a villain.
Personally I wouldn’t say clayface is genderfluid at least the btas version isn’t. He’s just an actor playing whatever role he has to.
What a great analysis. Subscribed to the channel. Looking forward to more great content, brother.
Wow! I've always thought Clayface would make an awesome live action villain. Really glad I've stumbled across your videos. Really well discussed 😊
Annie's ddeath was enormously sad. A girl that wasn't even "real" in the usual sense but simply wanted to live
I just watched Feat of Clay episodes. I was just comparing the animations between the two parts and missed all the good writing completely. Great essay.
My memories of the show are a bit different than your prognosis of the themes of the characters so bear with me here. I think this is less about sexual identity as this is more about the philosophy and struggle of the human condition.
Mat Hagan's tragedy is that he's a failed actor who suffers a tragedy himself. The blessing in his tragic fate is that he's given a gift into make up for his inability to act by becoming whatever he imagines; except himself. There is a real danger in method acting that we see time and again damaging actors to the point of being beyond repair; or something worse.
This is why Batman will know what Hagan wants: to become HIMSELF again. That's why the episode of him trying to reclaim his old shape and face is so palpable. His humanity is at stake, and he sees Batman is trying to rob him of his humanity.
Dehumanizing others is a constant in society and I feel like a lot of people can sympathize with Clayface in that we can often become a monster if we're forced into his circumstances. That's my take, anyways.
As for Annie, she has her own loss of humanity and struggles with coming to terms with it. You could say that there is a correlation between her memory loss of being a creation of Hagan is an emulation of abuse. The show certainly didn't shy away with Clayface being seen more human in this episode than his other episode appearances.
Once Annie realizes she is Clayface she views herself as not even worth saving which Robin, being a good kid, doesn't see her any differently. When he's about to die for her, Annie doesn't even think twice and lunges at Hagan; sacrificing herself in the process.
It's a real dark scene, and you even see Tim's darkness come through as he tries to kill Clayface if he doesn't bring her back. And when he admits he can't, he still tries to erase him, seeing him as less than human because of what he did to his friend.
As bitter as the ending is, I love the final scene to show that Robin values a person who didn't even think she had value herself. By calling Clayface a murderer, he affirms that Annie IS and was a human in his eyes.
It's damned tragic and I love they made an episode with such nuance and depth.
Except Hagen isn't a failed actor he's a Hollywood superstar, a critical and commercial darling whose "death scene" even initially fools Batman. So I don't understand that "failed actor part"
@@adamantiiispencespence4012 I made an error, I cross wired the Mat Hagen from The Batman with Btas version. That one is a terrible actor, whereas the Btas one isn't.
There were four people who took on the name Clayface in the Batman comics. The first Clayface was Basil Carlo who was a movie actor who went mad after his movie, The Terror, was being remade and the second Clayface was Matt Hagan who was a treasure hunter who fell into a pool of magic clay and became the shape shifting Clayface. This Clayface is a fusion of both the first and second Clayface!
Man...I just feel so bad for Matt/Clayface. Was he a good person? No. But he definately didn't deserve this. But my heart freakin SHATTERED when Annie died. Like holy fuckin shit
I really enjoyed this analysis.
It's interesting that he says "I'm not an actor, not EVEN a man". I feel like that implies that even though he relied on the chemicals, when he was an actor he still felt above everyone else. He likely felt that arrogance before his accident, and was desperate to hold onto it. As clayface, he is not just reverted back to being "even a man" like everyone else, but a monster. Basically it's interesting he seems to view himself being an actor as more important than being a mere man.
Hello. Recently found your channel. Im really liking your videos, especially this one. Anyways, I wanted to respond to your question at 8:20 about clayface being gender fluid. I am a trans person and a comic book nerd so I think I have an interesting perspective to bring to this question.
In my opinion, a shapeshifting character in fiction being willing to switch between being male and female doesn't necessarily mean they are trans. Gender has an internal component. What makes someone trans is not really about how they look, its about how they perceive themselves. Shapeshifting changes the person's body, but that doesn't necessarily mean it changes how they perceive their own identity. Some shapeshifters might change from male to female (or vice versa) in order to hide from an enemy, or trick an opponent, etc. This change might be a disguise rather than a reveal of their true inner self.
To be fair, I understand why someone might assume a connection between being a shapeshifter and being trans. Its actually quite common in sci-fi/fantasy stories for characters to be both trans and a shapeshifter or for shapeshifting to be used as an allegory. Thats not necessarily a bad thing either. The first trans character I ever read was a character named Xavin from the comic The Runaways. They were a shapeshifting Skrull who was equally comfortable in a male or female form. That character was really important for me when I was a teenager and still figuring myself out. Personally, I just think that not every shapeshifter willing to change their body like that is trans. Some are, some aren't. What matters in regards to this question is how the character perceives themselves. Based on what Ive seen of this version of clayface, I think he uses his female forms more as disguises rather than self expression. I don't think he is gender fluid. At least, thats my interpretation.
With all due respect I agreed on some if not most of your points but I think some of the gender and sexual analogies is on my opinion overplayed but I agree maybe a factor. In my opinion I think has more do with actors struggling with identity problems in general and we must remember modern day opinions on sex,gender and unfortunately politics can affect people talking about their past work giving it more credence than it was at the time to fit in with the modern cultural and political ideas to look cool to their peers or future potential employers just my opinion I maybe wrong myself we all are we are only human afer all.
Thanks for Reading.
People project what they want to see...not what there necessarily is.
Huh
@@12toro What's complicated? It means people see what they want to see, not what is - someone who's gay might see the relationship Matt has with his friend as gay, but there's nothing actually within the context of the story to confirm that. You have to read far too much into it to to IMAGINE that. To claim it is a gay story is to project your own thoughts, not what actually is. Because it's not a gay story, even if that was the intent.
@@maxmiller5619 i guess the part where he says WE can go on was referring to anything but their sexual relationship? right, tell that to Brad Rader...
Right, because it's impossible for two men to have a non-sexual relationship, right? Men can't show concern or care for a fellow man, eh, especially if one is presumed dead? That must be gay. You're one of those "Frodo and Sam are gay" people, aren't you? Eyerolling bullshit.
@@maxmiller5619 The directors literally confirmed it
The one moment of BTAS that made me hate Batman was when Clayface was being turned back into a human, and Batman severed the tubes feeding his body the chemicals. They spilled onto the floor, useless, so it wasn't about reclaiming the stolen materials. He just didn't want Matt to be happy. It would have made WAY more sense to wait until the treatment was done, *_then_* swoop in and take him down.
There was no reason to cut the feed, none.
You know what, I have a video about this very subject in my list of things to do. The key thing to remember is that he wasn't turning back into a human, he was getting greater control over his powers and would therefore become even more dangerous.
@@SerumLake Maybe, but I got the distinct impression that after that final treatment, he just wanted to settle down with the doctor. He just wanted to be human.
@@WobblesandBean if the MP49 would’ve done that, then that clay flesh lump they tested it on would’ve turned to human flesh. I think he was manipulating Stella, using her for his own ends, and I’m confident he would’ve abandoned her once he had increased his powers.
I see it that way too, he was a very selfish villain and Batman in the series always tried to help any villain. He cut it off for a good reason.
Nice vid with some interesting points. I would love to know what the writers and storyboard artists were discussing when making this episode in particular. The framing with Clay and his stunt-double is set in a manner similar to a relationship but for obvious reasons that wouldn't make it out to pass in full on a broadcast at the time, which is unfortunate. The whole dinner scene is as obvious as it gets on top of the arm holding which stood out to me even when I was a kid watching it lol.
Some of the people in denial in the comments don't seem to realize that these shows are often times just vehicles for the artists and writers to communicate their own personal stories, just framed in context to the franchise's setting. Happens to literally every franchised work under the sun yet people seem to think there's this magic barrier between the show and the actual people who make it!
Wow another great episode, love your work.
Aside from the transgender stuff, Clayface is one of my favorite Batman villains...
What’s confusing is, correct me if I’m wrong it’s been awhile since I’ve played both games, in “LEGO Batman the Video Game” the console version says his name is Basil Carlo while the handheld version is Matt Hagen.
It’s the same with the Riddler too, in the console versions his name is Edward Nygma while the handheld version has it as Edward Nashton.
I personally prefer Basil Carlo.
A lot of the things like Mr. Freeze’s origins, Harley Quinn, and the black and white suit for Two-Face, Batgirl, Nightwing, Man-Bat, Mad Hatter, etc I experienced for the first time from LEGO Batman.
In fact the designs for Batgirl, Harley Quinn, Man-Bat, Two-Face, the Joker, Mr. Freeze, Poison Ivy, and Clayface were pulled straight from the animated series.
I’m not including Robin because that was the Robin costume that Tim Drake was wearing in the comics during that time, and the Robin suit design for Dick Grayson was based heavily on that.
Tim Drake would go on to wear the red and black Robin suit seen in the New Batman Adventures in the comics which was later adapted into “LEGO Batman 2”.
Strangely enough in the animated movie, “Batman: Under the Red Hood”, Jason Todd is wearing that Robin costume when he’s killed by the Joker.
I wouldn’t worry too much about the continuity of the Lego games. Remember that these people are game designers that were given a license, and not necessarily experts on the lore (and it can be very confusing at times!!!)
Although, on the subject of their Clayface’s real name, there was an issue of Detective Comics that showed Basil Karlo using the name Matt Hagen as a stage name when he went for auditions. It was only mentioned once and will probably be retconned, but I liked that.
The coolest thing about the story of Clayface is that it molds into so many different world views.
I for example am Catholic and I also struggle with SSA (same sex attraction) and Clayface could as easily be a reminder as to how all our sins are connected. His vanity and pride leads to wrath. He can be viewed as a reminder that sin can rob you of your humanity.
Amazing video, the end caught me off guard
Thanks, I thought it was worth trying to include a little bit of humour to offset how bleak the rest of the video had been.
100% agree those clayface episodes scared me as a kid. Scared me so bad i never forogt them.
I never picked up on Mat and his standin being in a relationship. Call it naivete being that I was in my 20s at the time.
I had to have it pointed out to me too. Upon reflection, Teddy was very clearly not talking about his job when he said “WE can go on” in Feat of Clay Part 2
@@SerumLake didn't one of them say we've been together for years or something to that effect? If so, I just took it as how long they've been working together. I lie to you not 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
After watching the substance 2024 i start to realize the plot coincidentally has similarity with clayface
I don’t see growing pains as a trans thing I see it more a family abuse coming to its conclusion if no one truly steps in and saves the child or in the case of Robin, trying to save someone, but in the end, not strong enough to save her
I completely did not see the queerness of the original Clayface story when I first saw this episode, which honestly was when I was in highschool and could stream it online (I couldn't watch it when I was younger because shabas made watching Sat Morning cartoons near impossible), but it's so obvious upon watching it again (especially via word of God from the creators).
It really makes the story so much more dramatic, deep, and inherently sad/tragic. All this from a "childrens" cartoon. Awesome stuff. You learn something new every day.
I watched the episode of clay face for the first time in 30 plus years today and realized teddy was his lover. Something totally missed as a kid cause I was a kid 😂
I think every kid did lol. I rewatched it a month ago and realized here
never saw it that way as a kid, i just thought they were best friends. but seeing it as an adult, it was clear he was gay.
God I can't wait to see Clayface in The Batman 2, if he's still in it.
when i first saw him i thought he was a cooler sandman
he's a dude with shapeshifting powers oh god this old debate i hate it people take simple concepts and ramp them into parodies of what they're supposed to be but only in the west
accept reality and be the PERSON you wanna be that's it that's all
As someone with, um, dissociative identities... That Annie scene hurts.
I've had to watch a lot of "selves" emerge, start developing their own identity, learning who they are, experiencing the world, and then just... Falling back into me. And I'm the worst one, I'm the one that should disappear, I'm the one that shouldn't survive.
I don't want to reabsorb them but I can't help it. They always know they're disappearing. They always forgive me. But how can I forgive myself?
It's not your fault. I'm so sorry you feel that way