Refuting Michael Jordan vs. Lebron James Arguments (Pt.1) ©
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ม.ค. 2018
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Please do Allen Iverson video.
....6-0.......not 6-6.....
So what the Bulls were a better team then the Cavs when Lebron left lmao. Thats a trash argument. Jordan never had two allstars on his squad his entire career. Lebron has had two all-stars and potential hall of famers on his team for 7 different seasons. And he came out 3 of 7 in those seasons. This video misses the fact that Pippen ( a top 50 player) was still on those Bulls teams. When Lebron left the Cavs the had no one, When he left the Heat they had no one ( Bosh and Wade old and Injured) . Im tired of all this ALMOST talk. Who cares how far the Bulls got, did they win? And Jordan didnt have the luxury of picking all-star and hall of fame players and also running to them for help. He played with who he had. This video trash af
Bro I just want to say that you have the best like intro music just the music that you played during your videos is WONDERFUL
MJ left bulls twice with 2 3peats..
LeBron left Cleveland twice with 2 sweeps😂
Now compare that😂😂😂😂😂
Basketball is a team sport. Done.
@@MrShawtywannaplay Thats why MJ won more. When P.Jackson arrived, he understood that he had to play in a system as the main player.
LeBron is the system but he's not the main player, he needs shooters around him to open his way to the basket, so, at the end of the games, he's not Batman (there are few exceptions, pistons 07, toronto 18, but think about his Finals, R.Allen and Kyrie made THE big shoot, not him).
@@sticky-fingers
Big shots were taken by Allen and Kyrie to help LeBron James. True. But, LeBron James didn't disappeared in those games. He even completed clutch plays prior to these shots.
Just like MJ. He played greatly for the majority of the time, but he had shortcomings... like anyone else!
His teammates just responded the right way : they made clutch plays :
* Kerr (1997 Game Winner)
* Hodges (Game Winner)
* Paxson (Game Winner)
* Kukoc (1996 go ahead basket after Jordan went scoreless in the forth quarter until that moment)...
* The clutch block and steal made by Pippen/Grant (1993 last defensive possession).
You can't hate on someone because one had help and praise the other because he also had help.
@@david.tousignant20 We dont talk about the same thing and if you want to compare help, LBJ played with more allstars than MJ.
While MJ played in a team system -triangle-, the others touched the ball and where involved in the creation.
LBJ is the play system (like Harden, who is even worse since 3 years), other guys wait a pass and open the paint. So when the paint is closed he cant takeover and rely on his teammates who arent involved.
In 2007, 2011, 2013, in Finals, opponents teams closed the paint and let him shot or pass.
MJ fixed that in 1991 and was unstoppable (1995 is questionnable but the guy didnt play for 1,5 year!). Check last 3 minutes of 1998 Finals...
From 2015-18, LeBron seems to fix that too, but only till the ECF. Take 2018 last possession of Q4 in G1, he was guarded only by Curry ! and he passed the ball.
@@sticky-fingers
Are you assuming that throwing a bunch of all-stars without a competent coach would form a great team?
The best example? Kevin Love. He was incredible in Minnesota, not when James was there. He completely changed his body in order to fit LeBron James' style of play, which hurt his impact.
Jordan had the luxury of having HOFs caliber teammates (Pippen, Rodman), great role players (Grant, Ron Harper, etc.) whom understand their roles thanks to Krause, Phil Jackson & Tex Winters.
Completely different game ball. I'll take Chicago Bulls approach anytime.
This further shows the Lebron James weakness that is playing in a organized offense that developed the lesser players to the degree that if any thing happened to the star they could move on without him. Jordan submitted to the Triangle Offense which allowed the inferior players to perform in a system that when M.J. retired they were able to move without him and just insert new dudes in the system. Where as the way the Cavs played no Lebron no way out.
EXACTLY!! Well put! I'm amazed at how many people can't seem to grasp this concept!
Kenneth Erickson omg ur profile pic Ur miserable man LeBron the greatest to ever do it
ScepticalCynic uhh wtf? phil jackson wasn’t mjs only coach, he didn’t run the triangle for years into his career and by the time he had he was already easily the best player in the league and won a shit ton of awards
ScepticalCynic MJ was definitely fuckin effective when he ran a similar system to lebron did during the mid 80s
Why are you putting coaching failures on LeBron? Jordan isn't the one that brainstormed the team's use of the triangle, it was a HoF head coach Phil Jackson. I agree for the most part, and Lebron's inability to play in a structured system is due a lot in part to how he came into the league, he was the man in highschool, the most highly touted pre-collegiate athlete since Kareem, and he came into the league with a Cavs team with a sub par coaching staff.
Michael Jordan could also stretch his arm 50 feet for a slam dunk. Check out the documentary called Space Jam. Could LeBron do that? No. Case closed.
Made me laugh out loud. Thank you
😂😂😂😂😂
Omg 😲
Lebron Happens when God decided to play 2k and create a player, Jordan Happens when God himself plays Basketball.
MJ means "Who is LIKE God?"
LeBron means???
Neither of them are a deity.
MJ lost 9 out of 15 seasons before the finals
Mj. There is no debate 😂
Nostalgia is truly a hell of a drug. And Jordan fans are the most delusional fanbase of them all.
Interesting argument. Except you are forgetting that LeBron didnt "win" the championship before leaving Cleveland the 1st time.....MJ's bulls did. Also, Cleveland's entire team continuity was changed from coaching and player perspective....while the Bulls coaching scheme and dynamic was still intact (just not at the same championship level). These Lebron and MJ arguments for comparative greatness need to cease. Look at the game footage for each player and decide for yourself if MJ made his teammates better by being the "ultimate" utility player.....or has Lebron benefited by his teammates allowing him to "shine" in the LBJ system by supressing their own strengths.
Oscar Brown Philly fans they don't want bron cause he gone turn embid to a stretch 5😁
So what the Bulls were a better team then the Cavs when Lebron left lmao. Thats a trash argument. Jordan never had two allstars on his squad his entire career. Lebron has had two all-stars and potential hall of famers on his team for 7 different seasons. And he came out 3 of 7 in those seasons. This video misses the fact that Pippen ( a top 50 player) was still on those Bulls teams. When Lebron left the Cavs the had no one, When he left the Heat they had no one ( Bosh and Wade old and Injured) . Im tired of all this ALMOST talk. Who cares how far the Bulls got, did they win? And Jordan didnt have the luxury of picking all-star and hall of fame players and also running to them for help. He played with who he had. This video trash af
@@sleepyeyes1479 wow that was a dumb statement after seeing how big of an offensive load AD has
I was debating someone on Jordan and he claimed Jordan had more perennial all stars where he named Pippen, Grant, Rodman and Ron Harper. Only Pippen made multiple all stars on the bulls. Grant made just one as a bull and Rodman and Harper made none. Simply put people over estimated the bulls because MJ made them better whereas people underrate many cavs players because they were built around defense and letting LBJ score
Jordan didn't win on the Wizards. LeBron won on every team he played for.
I'm glad you go back to reexamine things the way they would be scrutinized today. Everybody remembers things so differently 😂
Don't forget bulls had same roster, they took like 7 players off the cavs after lebron left, that matters.
facts but LBJ fanboys want to make you think LBJ was the only roster change lol
To be fair, LeBron was the only one who was noteworthy enough to warrant attention that time.
iamhungey12345 Shaq who was an all star in 2010 and Mo Williams who was an all star the year before weren't notworthy?
It was argued that Shaq was washed up when he got to Cleveland so that was dismissed. As for Mo Williams, how many cared about the guy?
Im celtic fan but i no for a fact the bulls had the best roster every year jordan won whats the argument there are other things you can argue but this aint and shaq was washed up hurt missed 30 gms so ya argument about better teams dum maybe try saying miami was just as good as the bulls teams minus phil jackson cause Lebron has never had a great head coach
THANK YOU!!! I've been trying to make this argument forever on these boards!
man, what a great video. props on the info collected
you are the most rationally minded hoops commentator i know of. absolute agreement on nearly all your vids!!!
Awesome. Thank you for the video.
Great video. Your videos are always good. Keep it up.
Bulls with Jordan 6 championships
Cavs with Lebron 1 championships
But Cavs with LeBron has no First Round Exit
@@youcantalwaysgetwhatyouwan6687 but he still underachieved with the Cavs, Jordan overachieved with the Bulls
And.... kyrie
Give LeBron Wade and Bosh his whole career. 7 rings easy.
@younglove3362 I don't know about that. Against the Mavs, they failed.
Scottie MVP? Revisionist history alert.....Scottie did not get it done against the Knicks at crunch time in the playoffs. Also, the following season Pippen struggled to get the MJ less Bulls to anything but a .500 team (minus Grant now playing with the Magic).
Context does matter...and MJ could not have won those 6 rings without the help of certain players on the Bulls. However, this is besides the point as Jordan's greatness is about "how" he utilized his skill set to "fill in the gaps" for his teams in the triangle basketball philosophy. That dynamic only worked for 2 teams...Bulls and the Lakers....based on the skill sets of those teams and ability to accept their roles. MJ was able to utilize his dominant basketball skills (offensively and defensively) at crucial moments within games to help his teams garner championship success. Lebron's system and skill set has allowed his teams to reach more championship opportunities than MJ's teams....but failed to win more than losing due to Lebron's playstyle depending too much on his success ( ball dominant and less team cohesion) within game flow.
Can't believe I never responded to this comment.
1. No Revisionist History. Scottie Pippen was 3rd in MVP voting that year (1995), led the NBA in votes for All-NBA 1st Team and All-Def. 1st Team. (Those are the facts).
2. The Knicks Playoff series (which he played well in) has nothing to do with a regular season award. And with the Hue hollins call, I'm surprised that you'd even bring that series up as credible proof of Pippen not "getting it done".
3. Following season, the Bulls lose their *2* All-Stars (Grant and Armstrong).
4. Struggled to anything less than .500? The Bulls were 34-29 (.539) with Pippen in the Lineup before MJ came back.
Jordan failed to fill in the gap when he returned, the missing horace grant was evident...they re-tooled with rodman and became one of the best teams in league history...1 player cant fill all the gaps neccessary, it doesn't matter if you are Lebron or Jordan..you need a great team
You seem to be the only revisionist here 🤔😂🤣😆
Pippen got MVP buzz all season, though. It's not a matter of opinion; it actually happened.
Careful, according to Lebron fans, he is never selfish and passes all the time 😂😂😂
When is part 2 coming
Best series ever to refute this nonsense that Lebron is better than Jordan.
You have the best intro man
Excellent video, finally someone shows more complete context. The 93 Bulls did cruise through the regular season and could have easily won 64-68 games that year. And I remember Scottie being interviews saying they payed every game in 94 like it was game 7 playoffs. I have always said the 55 wins without MJ was not a knock on MJ nor was it a pro toward Lebron.
Excellent video
Silly comparisons! After you lose in the championship 6 times, this debate should end. There are more interesting topics.
Agree totally. Anytime someone has brought up the 1994 Bulls, I always say that only proves how good Scottie Pippen was.
LeBron and MJ are both great players, but they played in completely different contexts. The best argument/counter one can make is that MJ never made it to the Finals until Pippen became a superstar, while LeBron got there once with nothing around him. But Jordan went 6-for-6 with Pippen, and LeBron lost twice with D-Wade.
and then u could counter that with Lebron only made the finals because he played in a era with the worst teams coming out of the east in nba history. The teams he went through that year were bums compared to what Jordan and other legends coming out of the east went through.
if MJ didn't go play baseball how many rings would he have prob.be 7 or 8 in my opinion
I think they stil lose to the rockets
Look, it's not something you can really quantify by the numbers, who's better!! When you watch James play, he is unstoppable, he is built like a brick shit house, one of the most athletic players to ever play in the league, supremely talented, and good on defense and passing too. But when you watched MJ play, it was just this feeling, something unable to be measured, that this is the greatest player ever!!! James is good, but he's not really that exciting to watch. Jordan was in the air taking teams on 4 to 1, shooting the ball backwards, getting fouled and throwing it up in the air and making it, stunting like an extreme gold medalist!! There's no question he is the greatest. James is chasing rings to get the recognition that he belongs on the same level, while Michael was already known as the greatest player of all-time before he ever won his first championship!!!
Stonemansteve II Exactly, Jordan's first nine years before he retired are amazing, and missed most of the second year. He never had an equal in the league, even in the last three years with young talent like Penny, Hill, and whoever else none of them were at to take the mantle as the best in the league
What avout the second year jordan was gone they didnt win nearly as much games as the first year jordan left.. They were playing crazy hard when jordan left
In terms of highlight reel plays, I think Kobe has the nastiest and definitely the most creative plays compared to Lebron and Jordan.
You must hate Tim Duncan then
@@aaronvirdee5813 bro kobe took all his fundamentals from jordan.
Great video!
When Jordan left they already won 3x.. when LeBron left., Cleveland already got a taste of a sweep..a humiliating sweep🙄
so a 23 year old lebron a bunch of c- at best players vs a spurs team with 3 hall of fame players on it is a humiliating sweep?
you're a clown.
delete this comment.
you're embarrassing yourself.
@@cypher787 That series was close and the Spur's didn't even play great offensively.
What a stupid argument.
A asian casual knows nothing about the NBA facts would stupidly claim...
@@fury_021 And that makes it right? ./.
Your intro song sounds a lot better at 1.25 speed imo, you should give it a shot
Wow it actually does. Issa dope beat 🔥
Great video
People get too emotional with these "GOAT" debates.
Bottom line is this. Look at overall individual accompaniments and resumes.
Nobody cares about finals appearances.. they only care about finals won.
Nobody cares about MVP runner ups... They only care about the winner of the award.
Nobody cares about the teammates you played with... They only cared about the end results of your team and your individual season
That being said, Michael Jordan has a more impressive resume as of today.
Funny thing is, either of them being the "GOAT" was never mentioned in this video. You assumed that because of the media narrative that is constantly promoted when these two names are mentioned.
But Everything you have mentioned is situational and relative.
Finals Appearances and Championships are a byproduct of Your Supporting Cast (KD proved that last year).
MVPs are relative. Kareem could've been MVP all throughout the 70s, Michael throughout the 90s, and Lebron throughout the Late 2000s-now. Certain players have transcended the award so counting them as comparisons is futile.
There's no emotions in my videos, just Cold Hard Facts!
Basketball Examined , it wasn't mentioned in this video... But let's be real.
There's a reason why you chose to compare LeBron and Jordan.
You are definitely right people do get way too emotional. LOL to the point where they want to insult you if you don't think LeBron is the best player.
Kristaps Porzingis no don't look at that someone can have a better team and win more than a Player and a Player can get mvp when another player actually deserves it
Kristaps Porzingis right lets just make all the things lebron is better at non important or nobody cares if u wanna go individual accomplishments then lets go there n the leader of that is Not Michael its Bill russel n kareem get it straight. Other then that rings are not a individual accomplishment it's a team accomplishment. Things jordan could not do individually he needed pippen and Phil Jackson something lebron has never had n still been to the finals more times. He leads in clutch moments wether u jordans want to accept the facts or not. Lebron is more efficiant a better scorer better passer all jordan is better at is free throws n so what lebron has him beat everywhere else and what are u guys gonna say when lebron finishes out with 4 more rings then whats it arguement so u guys might wanna lay off that ring arguements cuz lebron has plenty of time left. Hes more athletic better blocker more physical higher basketball iq and he never gets injured. Plus is their anyone else who can find team chemistry as fast as lebron... Not really lebron has a proven tract record and is a walking dynasty n when he leaves this year and wins another ring with another franchise there is no more discussion lebron will be the undisputed goat sorry
Jordan didn't want to join other superstars. He wanted to beat them.
He didn't change teams once they were no longer contenders. Instead, he made two different generations of the Bulls champions and they both three-peated.
He won every Finals series he was in and didn't even allow a single team to force a Game 7.
He took most of two years off, and then came back, and won two more MVPs and three more championships.
Not bad for the guy who once didn't even make his high school's varsity basketball team.
Jordan never had to join other franchise. Otherwise, yes he would have. Also, last time I checked, Jordan played for the Wizards so that's debunked.
Thank you for making sense of that season, for the Lebron fans.
Oh and by the way lebron is extremely intelligent so he knows this "system" he runs is in efficient at winning titles. He is only concerned with mj. Look he has logged way more time to reach Jordan's numbers and hes playing against people who he's bigger ,faster and stronger than to boot.
Excellent video. You could also include how Miami was a playoff team before LeBron came but wasn't after Lebron left. I had been saying forever the LeBron was not the only player to leave Cleveland and you just laid it all out.
This is a pretty good argument here. It does show how important the organizations are to this argument, as well as how fatigue played a role. I do think that the Bulls success in those playoffs (and how they should've beat the Knicks) and the greatness of Scottie does still hurt the argument here, as the Heat also fell off after Lebron left too.
Michael Ijeh heat made the playoffs twice without lebron this season and in the 2015-16 season
The dude who created this video is forgetting that the Bulls got the #1 pick of the 1999 draft the year after Michael Jordan retired.
The main difference with the 1994 Bulls and the 2011 Cavs is that the Bulls didnt went on to rebuilt the team. They stick with the stars they had while the Cavs intered into a rebiulding process. Thats why they selected Kyrie Irving in the 2011 draft, Dion Waiters in the 2012 draft, Anthony Bennett in the 2013 draft and Andrew Wiggins in the 2014 draft.
If the dude who created the video had the desired to be impartial, then he should selected the 1999 Bulls and started from that point onward.
You kinda missed the point, There were arguments by Jordan detractors that the Bulls didn't miss Jordan as much as the Cavs had when LeBron left after 2010 because of what they had the following season. The point of the video was to break it down to show why the argument was crap.
@Gamachy
For the 1999 saason, the Bulls lost : Jordan, Pippen, Kerr, Luc Longley, Rodman and Phil Jackson.
So, they lost their starting 5 & their coach in the same summer.
And Chicago was forced to move 35 years old, Ron Harper into their starting SG, whom battled with injuries in 1997 & 1998.
It was sad seeing the Chicago Bulls auto destruction.
What you failed to consider is the system (or lack thereof in Cleveland) for both teams. The reason why the Bulls were relatively successful right after Jordan's retirement was because they actually ran a system that the players bought in to and the fact that Phil was a great coach. The reason lebron's teams crumble after he leaves is because of the lebron james system which is built to glorify him and him only
There is not enough space here for me to blow this argument full of holes.
thats a is a great argument, the other side being the bulls played the triangle offense and removing mj would not change how it was played, since they had the same roster and coach. while the cavs played around Lebron who when he left had no one to fill his shoe, also the addition of that many new players and losing older players would put team chemistry off. its like ac vs dc current essentially
Bulls played badly in 1993, they only had 57 wins. In 1994, they lost MJ but added Kukoc, Longly..., etc. Which was still a good team, they had more good big players, and Kukoc was a great players and shooter.
In 1995 before MJ came back, Bulls played really bad and might not able to make to playoffs. But after MJ's coming back, you got to admit that the bulls played much better than before, even MJ was not in even 70% condition.
Imagine if mj woulda played with that 94 team they woulda had a 4peat possibly 🔥
How do you go 67 and 14
In an 82 game season
Michael Jordan vs Lebron James is like Wayne Gretzky vs Alex Ovechkin.
Mario Lemieux?
3:00 forgot to mention that Jamison only played around 50 games as well.
you can say the same things about the 14-15 Miami Heat who lost Lebron, lost most of its core (Ray Allen, Battier), had some mid-Season trades (rotation players for Dragic), had some injuries (Bosh, McRoberts, Granger) and then failed to make the playoffs. The whole point of this is we have to look at what's left of the team rather than the player who left. Thus, this can't be used against MJ as GOAT
What if Jordan went 3-6 would we claim Jordan to be the Goat Hell No so why is James in this debate period
@MIchael Fassbender You sound dumb cus it's true LeBron shouldn't be in discussion wit MJ as far as being great goes
LeBron didn't even dominate his era of basketball. Jordan stopping guys from getting rings,LeBron allowing everybody to get rings
@ANIMENIACS Jordan repeated,LeBron got 1 in a shortened season,and look at the circumstances it took to get the other 2.
@ANIMENIACS Magic,Zeke and Bird aren't Jordan's era. Magic and Bird had rings b4 he was in the league,so I'm not talking about them as far as Jordan stopping. Jordan prime yrs were the 90s he stopped Barkley,Malone Ewing,Payton and Miller to name a few ring less during their prime years.Hakeem got his 2 but the Rockets didn't have a dynasty. Everybody had to play against those expansion teams.I'm not one of those Jordan fans who believe he walked on water but he dominated his era more than LeBron.
@ANIMENIACS It's about his peak prime years of dominance. Yea everybody got their opinion,good back and forth without the name calling like ppl do when they get in their feelings
Let’s not forget that they went from 45 wins in 95 to 72 wins in 96.
Well I guess I'll stop using that argument
Why can't Jordan just be the greatest ever and LeBron be happy with greatest player active. Nobody doubts his skill. I believe He's close but he will never be Jordan.
Mark Pereira Michael jordon needed help beating the pistons for like 4 years hahaha not untill they got grant and scotty pipins they beat the Pistons.
Drew Montoya my point exactly. Nobody has done it alone. But Jordan didn't have to leave his team to join s squad with 2 other superstars to finally get a championship. Let's not forget he lost to an old Dirk and Jason Terry when he joined Miami. Why is it so difficult to stop comparing these 2 cuz it's not even close.
Mark Pereira Your wrong because lebron carried bosh and wade when he was in the heat so idk what you talking about
Drew Montoya are you serious. Carried Wade and
Bosh. Why don't you look up what they both averaged each year on Miami. LeBron carried them into a loss against Dallas. LeBron was trash in That finals. And let's not forget that Ray Allen got LeBron out of a few jams or he would have even less Ring's. So how am I wrong?
Drew Montoya wade is better than Lebron dumbass that why Lebron joined his team and wade won without him without a supe team like lebum
You should compare with the 85-86 team when MJ got injured and lost the season. In 94, Pippen was an established all-star so it is unfair for MJ since the Cavs only had LBJ as a star.
Sder Ware exactly and he was able to carry his team to 66 wins.
Akkk Beds the Cavs were a really good team especially considering they were built around LeBron
Thoughts on a LBJ vs. KD future video???
Basketball Examined You should do it. It's a lot closer than Bron vs. Kobe ever was.
Literally the one excuse is "he's on GS so thats why he's shooting with good efficiency" even tho he was shooting better than 50% FG and better than 37% from 3 every year since 2012-13
CoLCoN 0 is lebron a better passer or do he have the ball more than Durant?
SC Challenger Its both but its definitely because the Lebron James offensive scheme allows him to pass so much. That's not KD's game and KD is definitely the better off ball player between the two.
Where’s part 2
where part 2
Interesting argument. I wonder why he failed to mention that the 2015 heat kept their core, coach and brought in great role players such as luol deng and Goran Drogic. It's way more comparable than 2010 Cavs.
The 14-15 Heat were nice to watch. It was either them or the Bulls that were gonna give the Cavs a run for their money that year before the Finals.
Wow! The loss of the Cavs’ 4th leading scorer is what led to the Cavs losing 63 games in 2011. smh
makes sense
🔥🔥🔥
MAKES NO SENSE!
*THE BULLS WERE CHAMPIONSHIP CALIBER BUILT TO GO TO THE FINALS PERENNIALLY, THE CAVS DIDN'T EVEN CARE ABOUT WINNING PERIOD!!*
BULLS = RINGS
CAVS = EVERY LEGEND DROPPED 50 ON THEM BEFORE
A2D Sports facts bum ass franchise and fan base
Which furthers the lebron argument u dummy
ZCT 1 it actually hurts his case because he never dominated anyone like his fans claim he does. He isn’t dominant. He’s a great player.
Fuddyduddie1 he is dominant. He dominated an entire conference for 7-8 straight years
Pro MF Era a conference is not the entire league kid.
Jordan won 3 in a row, retired for 2 years, came back and won 3 In a row again with a difference roster, he didn't go cherry picking from a other teams roster, he won with who he had we can't say that about LeBron and looks to play with other superstars, and yall give pippin too much credit, Jordan raised pippin level of play he didn't become a all star until they second title run.
BIMMOM lebron fans tear down every single one of his teammates to make him seem great like he carries them to the finals every year
Pippen never even averaged as many points as Wade and Irving in the Finals
Facts...if it wasn't for MJ....Charles Barkley, Ewing, Malone, Shaq&Penny would have won a championship and maybe another one for Hakeem with Samson.
Reggie Miller and the pacers probably could've stole one too.
BIMMOM lebron had a superteam in 2011 and he was a no show. Cant fix that blemish buddy
U r truly a genius
Jordan with the Bulls 6-6
Lebron with the Cavs 1-A LOT
The thing is every time lebron leaves the team is just bad because of the LEBRON system. The team is always built on lebron and when he leaves your team is just left with specific players to play with lebron
My only problem with the argument is we are comparing a way out of prime Shaq and Z to Dennis and Scottie and saying that’s the same thing?
Danny Green used to play for the Cavs?
Yup had those goofy dance intros wit LeBron
Why don't people mention the season Jordan came back?
"The Bulls struggled in the first half of the season with a 23-25 record at the All-Star break. However, they received a major boost upon the return of Michael Jordan, who came out of retirement to rejoin the team, faxing a memo that simply said "I'm back."[2] The Bulls won 24 of their final 34 games, and finished the season with a 47-35 record, going 13-4 with Jordan back in the lineup. The Bulls finished third in the Central Division and fifth in the Eastern Conference. Jordan wore #45 on his jersey, but later on changed it back to #23 during the playoffs"
It's doesn't make sense to compare a dynasty championship team 3x to a regular season team who won a ring.....This is not proof Lebron is better then MJ stupid comparision
Difficult to compare the 2 players
MJ bulls= boss level
Lebron Cavs= challenger
Nice joke 🤣
1994 was Scottie’s best basketball
Sound like Shawn blazington 😯
Which one of these guys never had a teammate averaged more than 22ppg in the finals? Which one of these guys never shot below 40% nor averaged below 25ppg in the finals? Let's not forget that Jordan's all time supporting cast had a total of 11 all star appearances with and without him while LeBron's had 44.
2018 Lakers win 34 games. LeBron joins in 2019 and will probably still win 34 games.. The fact that the bulls could still win 55 games in 94 shows MJ actually made his team mates better. Without having to be there. And after have won titles in 91 and 92, the bulls cruised through the 93 season only winning 57 games while focusing on the playoffs. Just like the warriors are doing now.
Lebron 3-5 in the finals, more help than Jordan. Jumping teams to chase rings, cant play off the ball, ball dominant. Never 3peated.
Power Gear More help? Lebron won way more postseason games without another star
Power Gear Bill Russell never had to "retire" because of gambling, won 11 rings and they named the finals MVP after him. Jordan never won 8 in a row and never won as a player/coach. Does that mean Bill is the greatest? Or does that argument only count for Jordan?
Joseph Johnroe Finals record argument only counts for MJ and Lebron. Not 8-8 John Havlicek. That's why it is closer to religion then facts
Kenneth Donnelly
Robert Horry is 7-0 and actually won with different teams vs one dominated team and system. Horry >Jordan
Chey Heyway not just 2 teams, several different teams. wherever he goes, the ring goes with him
I will try dissecting this video piece by piece as I come along it in the video. Firstly,the very first part where he talks about the Cavs being worse after LeBron left is true...but let’s not act like ANY of those guys being there still would have made any difference 💯 those were role players that only played small parts in LEBRON’S grand scheme of things. LEBRON was the FATTEST reason they were so successful,so I have to disagree with his argument on that 1
Instramental?
Your Argument at 3:16 support my argument that the only difference why MJ only played for one team compare to Lebron had to build a super team to win, is because of the difference of the Organization, Bulls is a top tier organization that knows how to build championship teams, unlike the Cavs, that is why Lebron even left them the second time.
The Bulls were clearly not a top tier organization before MJ and after MJ. Nice try Bron groupie
I saw the thumbnail and decided to comment how the bulls basically didn't lose anyone besides michael, and the cavaliers lost their entire team including lejamesbron
That being said, i personally think there is no way of saying michael or lebron are better than one another, because they never played eachother! And neither of them played wilt or kareem, so you can't see who's better.
(I watched a michael jordan interview where he said that about himself vs kareem or wilt something like that)
FACTS FACTS FACTS LOGIC LOGIC LOGIC
Wrong wrong wrong, the Bulls also went into the Lottery after Jordan retired in 1998 finishing 16-66. Why do people forget that.
bulls with jordan= champion...cavs with james= swept
Not only that, but everyone on the Bulls played with playoff intensity in regular season, because they had to prove that they werent just "Jordanairs". They absolutly maxed out their potential, just like 2016 Warriors.
This is proven in the next season, when they were barely above .500 before MJ cameback in 1995. They were 23-25 at All-Star break, 34-31 at his return and made 13-4 run upon his return to make the playoffs. Bulls won 24 of last 34 games just from news MJ would be bacm after receiving fax that says "Im back". All in spite of him still being rusty from playing baseball for 1.5 years...
You can’t compare the 2010 Cavs to the 1998 Bulls though. Although both had their best three players removed in the year after. The Bulls 3 would smoke the Cavs 3. Bulls were losing prime hall of fame players and Cavs were losing 1 hall of fame player in or before his prime, an after prime Shaq and just Mo Williams.
Basically, the Bulls without MJ is a Miami Lebron team..
You failed to mention that the 2009-10 cavaliers had some key injuries too. The 2nd and 3rd leading scorers in Williams and Jamison missed a combined 70 GAMES! The 4th leading scorer in O'neal also missed 30 GAMES! The backup center Ilguaskas also missed 18 games..... "Key role players" in Delonte West and Daniel Gibson also missed a combined 48 games. And Danny Green only played 20 games that year......... Yet they still went 61-21.
And the fact that you put in Darnell Jackson who only averaged 0.8 points per game and only played 27 games as a "Key loss", tells me that your view in this argument has some bias.
And some of the players that replaced Jordan weren't all that either. Bill Wennington only averaged 7 points per game, Blount only averaged 3 points per game, Longley only played in 27 GAMES and Pete Meyers never averaged over 5.2 points per game in his career before joining the Bulls, and he came over from Italy....
The only real additions were Kukoc and Kerr. And the Bulls were a couple bad calls away from making the Conference Finals. And that Pacers team who they would've faced wasn't all that either (47-35), so they easily could've made the Finals WITHOUT Jordan. Meanwhile the Cavs got the 1st pick in the draft. This LBJ vs MJ argument still stands.
1. The point behind comparing rosters was to raise the question: Apart from both Michael Jordan and Lebron James, did the Cavaliers and Bulls get better or worse the following season? (2010 Supporting Cast vs. 2011 Roster/ 1993 Supporting Cast vs. 1994 Roster)
The bulls were definitely better, while the Cavaliers got worse - which nullifies the argument.
2. And Last but not least, you have to account for Scottie Pippen which literally kills the argument. The 2011 Cavaliers did not have a player like that after Lebron's departure; let alone a Hall of Fame Head Coach in Phil Jackson.
What if the 2011 Cavaliers had a prime Kawhi Leonard (Defensive minded wing) and Popovich (HOF coach)? The Outcome would be completely different and you have to take that into consideration.
Let's not forget that LeBron James joined a top 3 player in 2010-11.
Wade won a championship before LeBron got to Miami (something Pippen never did alone) and was still in his prime when LBJ joined.
It's debatable that a core of Wade and Bosh, with some solid role players, could've went to the finals in 2012 and beat the Thunder.
They could've made the finals in 2011 and possibly took out the Mavericks.
Kristaps Porzingis Absolutely no way the Heat were making the Finals in any year without LeBron. Either the Celtics or Bulls would've beaten them in 2011 and the Celtics definitely would've beaten them in 2012. And did you really say Wade was alone when he won a championship in 2006? He still had Shaq averaging 20 points - 10 rebounds and 2 blocks per game that year. Pippen probably could've won in 1994 with that Shaq too.
Basketball Examined
1. I don't know if that supporting cast really got that much worse. Because of the fact that the previous year with LBJ, most of that supporting cast was injured.... The supporting cast basically stayed on the same level with some different names.
2. That's the entire point of this argument. People always try to diminish Pippen's greatness by saying that Jordan did everything on his own. They always say that he(MJ) won 6 championships, not they(MJ&Pippen). They even said it on First Take recently I believe, saying that Jordan won 6 rings by himself while Pippen was sitting right there. Jordan also always had the better team than his opponents after 1990. He never faced a team that was better than his. And no that wasn't JUST because of MJ. Cause if that was the case, there's no way that Bulls team could've won 55 games without him.
the thing is LBJ was more valuable to that Cavs team than MJ was to that Bulls team not that one guy is just More valuable overall than the other cuz lets say put LBJ on the Warriors and they'll prolly go 73-9 again and definetly win the ring but if you take LBJ off that team the next year they're still gonna win like 66-67 games and still win the ring so its not like LBJ was so valuable to that Warriors team if he were playing with them as he was to the 2010 Cavs. Like KD when he left OKC, they went from 55 win team in conference finals game 7 to a 46 win team that got destroyed in the first round but it don't mean now that KD is more valuable than Jordan, KD was just more valuable to that specific team compared to Jordan's value on the 1993 Bulls. Put MJ on the 2011 Cavs and he's easily more valuable to that Cavs team than LBJ would be to his 2011 Heat team. Put MJ on the 2010 Cavs and LBJ on the 1993 Bulls and both leave their teams the following year and I guarantee you Bulls would still win 55 games and Cavs would still be trash 19 win team even with the roles reversed
It’s obvious the Cavs were tanking to get the number 1 pick...
Great video.
MJ makes his teammates better.. LeBron makes himself better by making everyone else believe that he makes he's teammates better.. but MJ actually does.. simple.. when they both left.,the bulls team chemistry was still great.. when LeBron left.,they sucked coz there was already no team chemistry all along even when he was around 🙄 easy
It's not just the 2011 cavs.. its every team lebron left. Why didnt this video include the 2014 -2015 heat after lebron left, who still had basically their starting 5 minus lebron
Actually no wade and bosh both dealt with a lot of injuries that season
@@lawrencemcdonald9212 they both had the same injuries b4 he left.. only diffrence is they still played because the team had championship aspirations
@@mrfabo60 no bruh that heat team had the most starting lineup changes in 1 season in recent history when everyone was healthy the next season they were 1 game from the ECF
Did you ever (at one point) think that Pippen was once a Top 10 player in the 90's?
MistahUnknown prob like 8th
MistahUnknown in 1994 yes
He was arguably the absolute best in '94, you don't have to discredit a player who was the best small forward in the league for the majority of his career. It's true that he couldn't get it done in '94 when everybody had the Bulls winning it all, but he didn't play bad against the Knicks. If he didn't play with Mj, we might be look at him as a top 10 player ever, whereas Mike woyod struggle to make the top 3
Only 2 of those cavs teams won a ring without LeBron. Even Danny Green won one with LeBron in the Lakers
Yall gotta remember Jordan's era didn't have that many 3pts shooters
All this video proves is Jordan "actually" made his teammates better.. So good that they could play without him because they learned from him.. They didn't make it without him to the championship because they still needed a leader despite how good he made them.. LeBron doesn't make anyone better.. That's why none of his teams play good when he not on the floor.. That attributes to them not being able to create on his teams.. Also some of LeBron old teams had alot of injuries after he left.. That's why they lost so this argument anyway is stupid
Way to not mention that the whole 10 squad was injured that year
Let's see how Cleveland does again without LeBron.
hey the bulls have the triangle to win 55 games while the cavs dont have any system
Goodness, take out Baron Davis, Mo Williams, and Varejao and that roster is some sort of questionable.
The bulls went 67-15 in 1992 and 57-25 in 1993
The difference is the bulls eventually had pippen who led the team when Jordan walked away. Meanwhile no player could lead the Cavs out of lotto. Kyrie Irving couldn't even do it. Bulls were trash before Jordan and so were the Cavs before Bron. I think Bron is the most valuable player because of his Arsenal up until now but i still have MJ as the goat
Eddie Perkins it's one the main things everybody forget about the drop-off between the two. The Cavs lost players and LBJ didn't tell the Cavs he was leaving till Free Agency was over. So they didn't did even get a chance to be active in FA and aquire someone to replace him. Any team would go into the lottery after that.
Exactly and the thing is LBJ was more valuable to that Cavs team than MJ was to that Bulls team not that one guy is just More valuable than the other cuz lets say put LBJ on the Warriors and they'll prolly go 73-9 again and definetly win the ring but if you take LBJ off that team the next year they're still gonna win like 66-67 games and still win the ring so its not like LBJ was so valuable to that Warriors team if he were playing as he was to the 2010 Cavs. Like KD when he left OKC, they went from 55 win team in conference finals game 7 to a 46 win team that got destroyed in the first round but it don't mean now that KD is more valuable than Jordan, KD was just more valuable to that specific team compared to Jordan's value on the 1993 Bulls. Put MJ on the 2011 Cavs and he's easily more valuable to that Cavs team than LBJ would be to his 2011 Heat team
Another joke
@@kd35beast24 lmao
Look at the Cavs now
Look at the Lakers.
why wouldn't you compare both prime teams, like the 2012 Miami Heat without lebron vs '94 Bulls LOOOOOL
Like Shannon Sharpe two things can be the truth
Using regular season performance to make any argument has its flaws. It is the playoffs that really counts.
After MJ retired Phil Jackson had a motivation to show that he can win without Jordan. The team overachived but was not successful in the playoffs.
Thats 2010 Cavs roster looked bottom 3 if you just erase Lebron from it