i loved part 2 initially but this video's genuinely making my reevaluate why i liked it in the first place. The story that they had could've been executed so much better if they had more fresh eyes to the story but neil was too confident in himself that he overlooked so many characters and their actions as long as they arrived to the next story beat. Grounded II even states for the first time in naughty dog history, they solidified the entire story early in development. From one of the comments made during the documentary, they even considered hiring another writer but halley was so adamant in writing the story her way, pushing for the more melodramatic moments. On top of that, one of the cut levels in the remaster focus more on ellie's suffering with joels death with her hallucinating his corpse in place of a clickers'. I admittedly was dismissive of criticism like the people you made fun of, but for both sides of the argument you really have to dig for rational conversation and this video was incredible for that, thanks man i say man in a very non-gender specific way
I'm glad to hear that you eventually came around to listening to criticism even though you liked the game, not a lot of people can do that (especially fans of this game, as you can see from this comments section) As for the story, you pretty much summed it up perfectly. I saw what they were going for but the writing and pacing just made it fall short of its' full potential. I haven't seen Grounded II yet, but I do know that Neil basically confirmed Part III in it so I guess the "ah shit, here we go again" joke in the video is more potent than ever lmao. I am very morbidly curious to see where they go with the plot though, because Ellie and Abby both had definitively solid endings. Dude it is SO difficult to find rational discussion on this game, I thought that making fun of people on both sides and expressly stating in the video that it doesn't matter what you think of this game would result in an actual conversation taking place, but a large majority of the comment section ended up being people who saw the title, didn't bother watching, and went "No you're wrong" so thank you for being one of the few reasonable ones. I'm glad my video was able to help you recognize some of the flaws in the game, but don't let it alone fully convert you to disliking the game, you can still enjoy something while recognizing the flaws in it. Again, thanks for watching and taking the time to write out a constructive comment, you're really mature for being able to switch from a blind fan to being open to criticism man. And I of course mean man in a very non gender specific way
what i hate is when people say its objectively a good story when its objectively not. there r so many flaws on a basic story telling level and just bc people r ok w over looking that doesnt make the story objectively well written. like the 2nd game has flaws like season 8 thrones and when people can like both they r objectively bad.
Exactly, for example Ellie knows about the flashback on the porch with Joel for the entire game, yet doesn't at all mention it or act based on it until the very end of the game when she spares Abby. Just so they can justify the ending they want to tell and give the player a dramatic moment at the end. That is shit writing. A character acting on the audience's knowledge of events rather than their own.
@@ineedwafflestabernacle yup or how ellie didnt get ptsd till the farm scene. and on top of that ellies ptsd even had abby torturing Joel in it. which means Ellie is actually just completely overlooking that aspect of Joels death so she can rationalize not killing Abby.
@@ineedwafflestabernacle theres also the fact Abby after her 3 day character arc immediately turns her back on everything she learned by thinking Ellie should have been grateful she didnt get tortured to death.
Yeah seriously. It's so obvious if you replay the first game that the hospital scene was never meant to be more than what it is, so them basing an ENTIRE game off of it and trying to make it seem more important than it originally was ruins any form of empathy I could have for Abby because it feels too forced
The game never ended it felt like, just kept going on and on. Plus hitting the climax at the 50% mark and suddenly having to start all over for the second half
Holy shit, that's so accurate. There were so many moments when I thought the game was gonna end and it just kept going. I thought the first theater was the end, then the beginning of Day 2 as Abby, and then the farm, I got so much emotional whiplash. Also yeah, I'll never understand them basically restarting the entire story halfway through only to reach the exact same climax again 10 hours later
@@ineedwafflestabernacleI have heard that from a developing perspective it would be hard to play as Ellie on day 1 then Abby day 1, Ellie day 2 and so on. I could be wrong as I am not 100% sure if that was it, as I may be mixing it up with something else that was hard to develop on the game. Also just a really great video you have made. I recently played the first game again, and started to watch some more recent made reviews on Tlou2. As I was quite disappointed with Tlou2, and not sure if I would play it again. So I watched these newer videos to get another perspective ( As they put a much more positive light on the game, and says it’s a misunderstood masterpiece). They talk about how Joel’s character would let his guard down because he had settled down and found hobbies. I feel like their point would work maybe with a normal person who hadn’t done horrible actions in the past, but just was careful. But you brought much more vital information in your video that is more true to Joel’s character. With examples from Tlou1 and the flashback in the hotel, of Joel’s carefulness. Joel had made a lot of enemies over the years, and his carefulness would only make sense to be going to the grave with him. Points were also made of Abby and Levs dynamic and chemistry was the part of the game. I would say that’s quite absurd. Also there where points about how you didn’t want Abby to die to Ellie in the theatre. Because you felt sympathetic to Abby now, and less sympathy for Ellie as she had done gruesome actions to Abby’s friends and Abby hadn’t done anything bad recently as she was now “bestfriends” with lev and yara, and a good person. Not taking to consideration that Ellie felt bad for her actions and psychological damaged for the torture of Norah, a pregnant Mel’s death. And also not taking consideration that Ellie didn’t really have a choice with either Norah, Mel & Owen and the PSP girls deaths, as they all would have killed Ellie if she didn’t do anything (taking Norah down to ground zero, if she didn’t Wlf soldiers would have killed her, and she needed the info). But Abby gave Joel a brutal death, would like to kill a pregnant Dina, and no remorse for killing Jesse and the life treating injuries to Tommy. I liked that they can find enjoyment with the game, but I can’t. They tried finding a newer perspective on the game, from 2020 with the common Joel death bad and Abby bad. But I feel like they left out huge part of what made the story bad, and how the characters really are, and your video made amazing points about how the game is not a masterpiece as they are puting it. I wrote this on a phone so it’s probably quite messy (TH-cam glitched so most of this I had to rewrite and comes out a bit rushed). And also as you said it’s quite difficult to write down your thoughts, as they make much more sense in your brain and it’s hard to write down. Yeah just a really good video on The last of us part 2 you have made.
@@nikolaitykvenko Yeah I haven't heard anything about that first part either, but I do know they tried telling their stories side by side and switching between them in real time, but ultimately decided on what we got. Also thanks man, I'm really glad you enjoyed. I've also watched a bunch of videos on the game (positive and negative) around its release to really see what both sides were saying but ultimately I just couldn't find the same enjoyment as people who liked the game. As for Joel, yes, 100%. It is a COMPLETE 180 for a character as stubborn and untrusting as Joel to suddenly switch around, and they should've spent more time conveying that. A core part of Joel's character is that he's selfish; He doesn't care about hurting other people so long as he and Tommy survived, he didn't help the other family on the road even when he could, and ultimately he was willing to throw away humanity's chance for a cure because it'd hurt him too much to lose another daughter. So to get rid of that and not even convey the gradual in between of him going from untrusting to trusting is a huge disservice to him. Ellie all throughout the game showed regret over the things she'd done, meanwhile Abby never once showed regret over killing Joel or anything else she'd done to the WLF or Ellie, her only emotional response to killing Joel was realizing it didn't solve anything. And yeah same here, I wanted to like this game, and when I finished it I even watched a bunch of positive videos on it to see what people enjoyed about it so much, but once I realized I was trying to convince myself to like the game rather than just accepting how I felt about it on my first playthrough, I realized that this game simply just fell flat for me. I'm really glad some people do like it though, the last thing I wanted was to not enjoy this game and have this series ruined for me. I really appreciate you watching and sharing your thoughts, I'm glad you enjoyed the video so much
coincidentally, that was the same part of the game where I realized Abby had an upgrade tree and it dawned on me that "Oh my god, this isn't just a short half hour section, this is gonna be a large chunk of the game"
You really just said everything i had to say about this game in this video, they were trying to get you to like the characters after they killed joel, like i just dont care.
I'm glad to hear you can also agree. And yeah, I mean just the simple fact that Jerry was a random NPC in the first game makes it impossible for me to care about Abby as a character
@@ineedwafflestabernacle any other game would usually get you to know the characters before they do something you hate them for, it was impossible for me to like abby when the first time i saw her was when she killed joel. And i loved the video, you are a funny dude and the video was so well edited and the way you talk is just incredible both in the vid and the comments, i need to watch more of your content after this
@@xxmichael-aftonxx1426 They really just simply did a poor job of writing Abby. There's plenty of other stories that have a "bad" character but write them well enough to have you care about them. I listed a few of them in the video like Vito Scoletta and Joel from the first game, but in movies there's Neil McCauley from Heat, The Driver from Drive, and Tyler Durden from Fight Club. All of them are horrible people, but they're well written enough that people still like them as characters and enjoy watching them. It's a very common thing in storytelling, Neil and Halley just fucked it up with 2 and weren't able to do it well enough to have everyone on board with the story they wanted to tell. And thanks man, I really appreciate you saying that and enjoying the video. I can't say I've ever been complimented on how I talk but it's very flattering. Hope you enjoy the rest of the stuff I've made, and I'm currently working on new stuff, it's just taking a while to finish.
I believe the main reason why fans hate this game so is due to the fact that Naughty Dog pulled the wool over everyone’s eyes. When fans saw the teaser trailer for the first time, they all thought that Joel and Ellie were back for a proper sequel. Instead, the actual game substituted that Asian dude saying Joel’s lines from the teaser trailer. Naughty Dog knew that they couldn’t sell the game without Joel, and they marketed it as if Joel & Ellie were going to have one last journey together.
Exactly, they showed Abby in trailers but never explained who she was. At either the 2016 or 17 PSX panel the interviewer asked Neil if Ellie's mom was in the game because people thought Abby was her mom, and he didn't provide a straight answer and just said something vague like "You'll see" The marketing was inspired by Metal Gear Solid 2 where all the promotional material showed Snake except you play the game and it's like 90% Raiden, except Metal Gear Solid 2 was a masterfully written game so Kojima could get away with shit like that, whereas with Last of Us 2, well we both know what happened there
@@ineedwafflestabernacle I like the first game & thought it was very good. That for me is where The Last of Us ends. TLOU Part 2 is like a shitty movie sequel that fans ignore and don’t associate it with the franchise. Like the Disney Star Wars movies or the Jaws sequels.
Neither did I honestly. I was curious to see what they would do in a sequel, but the first games open ending kinda gets thrown out the window with the existence of a sequel
@@LowOnAmmoLoa "no one loves these character more than we do" *proceeds to have one killed and the other a broken person with no one to go home to and 2 missing fingers*
Great video. I love this game despite its flaws, but it is really refreshing to hear someone with actual criticisms rather than screeching that the game is “woke” or something
I'm glad you enjoyed. It's also referring to hear from someone who likes this game that's actually able to have a conversation about it rather than going "No you're wrong" Someone else said it in the comments section and I touched on it in the video, but "woke" really is a nothing word. People use it as an excuse to label anything with minorities or capable women as bad, which takes away attention from actual pandering and bad representation in modern media.
I hope there isn't a PC release, these games are both good but they're not a TV Show, 2 remasters, a PC port, and an entire remake of the first game from 2013 good
what do you mean a you dont want it ported so more ppl like me that dont play on consoles cannot try and form an opinion on the game wth XD@@ineedwafflestabernacle
Stop trying to put words in my mouth. I don't want it ported because this series has already run its course, they've expanded upon everything they could in this world and it's time for them to make something new. They've retold the story of the first game twice, remastered both of them, released two behind the scenes documentaries, and are now gonna retell the second games story again as a TV show. That's why I don't want a PC port, not because I "don't want people who can't play the game to form their own opinion" which isn't even a valid point. If you really want the story there's literally nothing stopping from just watching someone else play it
@@ineedwafflestabernacle what about the gameplay i know its a dogshit console "game" but there is still just like you said in the video some fun from the gameplay i agree with the games being remastered like 12 times is stupid but port isnt the same as a remaster
It doesn't matter if a port is different from a remaster, it's still them reselling the same game again. They've resold the first game 4 times, and now the second one twice. If you really wanted to play the second game that bad then you already would've by now.
It's never not gonna be funny to me how they made a game with the message "violence and vengeance bad mmkay" and also gave me one of the best murder sims out there. Also, my ultimate biggest issue with the narrative is the writers have no balls. If they had confidence in their ability to write they would've made killing Abby a choice. Because they would've trusted the entirety of the game would lead players to make the choice the writers wanted. But they didn't. Because they knew they failed to convince most players to be merciful after letting them kill enough people that the post apocalypse population of the US was probably halved.
Playing the game felt like a 5 star chef preparing you a meal and then attempting to make you feel bad for eating it. If I'm supposed to feel bad about the killing why did you make it so much fun and make an entire rogue like mode based around the killing. It's hilarious that they tried to pass off Ellie sparing Abby as "true to her character" when in reality it's because they failed to have people care about Abby. The play testers wanted to kill her and when she didn't they were still confused about why Ellie spared her. Every problem with the ending they knew about and still went with it. We live in a society. Also "post apocalyptic US population was probably halved" took me out
Omg the Danny thing isn’t that we are supposed to care about Danny - we don’t, we don’t know or care who he is. It’s that he was ON PATROL WITH OWEN. Abby is worried the dead body is going to BE Owen. AND THEN that if Owens patrol partner is dead then wtf has happened to Owen?? It’s literally not about Danny at all 😭
@@ineedwafflestabernacle And you make salty Last of Us videos... I mean you are stuborn i give you that but being stuborn about a bad take isnt really a positive... I dont know one person in real life that still dislike the game. Most people online ive seen that stuck with the hate either cut ties entirely to Last of Us part 2 content or only searched "Why Last of us part 2 sucks" on youtube hoping for affirmation. It has gone from a overwhelming majority of fans that hated the game even before release, to a overwhelmingly positive reception today.
the game isn't good fam, still receives negative reception for its ridiculous narrative. The game isn't horrible but also isn't amazing or good. The fans that hated the game at launch still dislike the game now and those who loved the game at launch still love the game now. @@warlorddk2070
@@warlorddk2070 you're right, I'm sorry for disagreeing. My opinion is invalid because it doesn't line up with yours and people you personally know in your life. Anything I personally felt about the game after I went out and bought it with my own money to form my own opinion is wrong, and since it's been 4 years since it came out that automatically means I can't dislike it anymore.
Responding to a 1.5-hour video in a YT comment on a phone is pretty exhausting, so hopefully I can be forgiven for focusing on some highlights rather than being comprehensive. 30:16 | Imagine if in the first game, Henry shot himself and then there was a smash-cut to black and suddenly you were in Colorado. You acknowledge that gap and say there's a difference, but I just don't buy it. Was that not a result of "needing the characters to be in the right place" in service of the story? I get that there's some suspension of disbelief required at times, but so what? So there's another game's worth of story there? Honestly, what of it? Why is the relative irrelevance to the story not a good enough reason to cut it? As a wise man once said, "just because something is realistic doesn't make it compelling from a story prospective". 52:00 | Really not sure what the point is here. That Jerry should have been black? That retconning some minor details is supposed to be some deep betrayal? Yeah, Jerry almost certainly didn't exist during the development of Part 1. Who cares? 55:06 | Well that's great for you, but Joel blew away her dad for trying to perform a potentially-world-changing operation on somebody who spent the last year fighting like hell to show up for it (Ellie's feeling about how all of this went down and how that feeling differs from Joel's is a pretty big part of Ellie's story, by the way). I'm not sure that you can call what Joel did "self-defense" or anything particularly close to it. 56:35 | ...And then Ellie chases Abby to Santa Barbara to take another swing at her. 1:19:00 | I know you're not trying to argue right now that Ellie's tragic ending in Part 2 isn't a consequence of her actions... I appreciate some of the concessions you made at the beginning of this video (I agree that a lot of the characterizations of people who argue over this game are ridiculous), and there are some silly things going on in this game (what the hell *is* Mel doing out in the field?), but at lot of these complaints just sound petty or specific to yourself. I truly think there are some people for whom this story was just never going to work. I don't like to go so far as to say that some people aren't receptive to stories of redemption or stories that try to get one to empathize with somebody they've been primed to dislike, but that does seem to be the common thread in a lot of these opinion pieces - "I know you want me to like Abby, but there's nothing you could do to make that happen". Maybe that's not such a charitable interpretation, but it's difficult for me to see it any other way. You don't like Abby especially not when she's opposed with Ellie and you never will, never would, never could, and that's the sort of attitude that the game was trying to combat. You say that you don't need to the game to tell you that you don't like to see bad things happen to characters you love, and maybe I agree. Maybe tribalism is far too deeply ingrained in some people to bother trying to do anything about it. Maybe it is a futile pursuit. But I still think it's a noble one. Seems like you, like many others, were looking for The Adventures of Joel and Ellie Part 2, and you know what, fair enough, I guess. I think that what we got was far more interesting. More flawed, but more ambitious. 1:21:32 | That made all the work I put into this comment worth it.
Okay first of all, even though you disagree I'd like to thank you for watching the entire video before commenting and writing out an actually elaborate response rather than "No I like this game so you're wrong" this games fandom needs more people like you. So with Henry and Sam. I said I'd be willing to excuse a distance skip if it happened once, and that's the only instance of a MASSIVE distance we see none of in the first game. In the second game there's 13 entire journeys/skips we see none of, compared to just 4 in the first game. You may be fine with the game skipping over possible stories, but for me personally my favorite subtle aspect of the first game was seeing how different parts of the US handled the outbreak, and so to see the 2nd game just ignore locations that could be really interesting like Las Vegas or the surrounding deserts made it feel lazy. Rather than actually showing off more of this world, they gloss over it and sum it up in some short journal entries. It's irrelevance to the story is my exact issue, because it shouldn't have been. Besides the first game being about the journey and how difficult long distance travel is in this world, you can't deny that it would've been more interesting to see Ellie making her way to Santa Barbara and showing off her regrets along the way, where she acknowledges how insane what she's doing is and questions if it's even worth it. That would've expanded upon both the world, her as a solo character, and the ending as well since we would've seen the initial catalysts for her decision near the end. And also you have to admit it's kind of ridiculous that Ellie was able to traverse twice through all the dangers of that kind of geography in a post apocalyptic world when even in our modern world deserts are still seen as extremely dangerous due to wildlife, temperature, weather, and lack of resources. The point isn't that Jerry shouldn't have been black, although that is a funny argument because I've seen people unironically say that lmao. The point is that it's very obvious Jerry wasn't intended to ever be more than a random NPC. He literally shares the same NPC model as some of the hunter enemies I'm pretty sure, and so when you make a sequel where the crux is this character and getting you to empathize with them, I can't care because they literally aren't important. It's one thing to write in a new character and make them important, after all Micah wasn't at all mentioned in Red Dead Redemption 1, yet he's the entire reason the gang fell apart. But the difference there is that Rockstar wrote him in a way that perfectly fit into the world, rather than picking some random pre existing NPC and saying "This specific character is now important because we want to tell this plot" it feels forced and contrived, instead of building something new they were insistent on telling a story involving Jerry, no matter how unimportant and forgettable he originally was. I'm not saying Joel killed Jerry out of self defense, even if I agree with it I'm still able to acknowledge that morally what Joel did is a bad decision. The point I was getting at is Abby took things way too far compared to how Ellie reacted. Abby killed Joel yet Ellie never consciously planned to do any of the messed up things she did (torturing Nora, killing Mel and Owen) and afterwards Ellie shows regret for doing them, and also attempts to sympathize with Abby (which Abby doesn't even listen to or consider by the way) Abby doesn't. The only somewhat lingering feeling Abby has from killing Joel is "Huh I guess I was unsatisfied with my life for another reason" she never expressed any regrets over doing it. Also I'm sure most players shot him but Joel canonically didn't "blow Jerry away" if you just walk up to Jerry in the first game Joel stabs him in the neck with a scalpel. Still a brutal death but nowhere near shooting someone in the knee, tourniqueting their leg, and then repeatedly bashing them in the head with a golf club. I don't see what you're getting at with this point. It's not that her ending isn't a consequence of her actions, it's more that the ending feels extremely unnatural and overtly depressing because before this game Ellie had never displayed anything like that. She'd continuously lost people close to her, but none of that was ever directly her fault, it all just kind of happened to her. She didn't always end up alone because of what she personally did to other people, she kept losing people close to her because of the world they live in. Maybe you didn't see it that way, but to me it felt like way too harsh of an ending for her. I'm glad you agree, dude it's insane how some people STILL keep up that narrative of "you don't like the game because you're transphobic" or "you like the game so you're a woke snowflake cuck" Throwing out terms such as "homophobic" and "transphobic" over people not liking a game rather than at people who actually are those things is not only deflecting because you don't want to acknowledge their opinion, but it also detracts from those words value and meaning and ends up diluting them. And as for the other side, honestly I don't even know what those people are on, they're out here being shocked that a woman is the main character of a video game and acting like it's some new form of "propaganda" as if Metroid didn't do exactly that back in 1986 lmao. (Also yes, what is Mel doing out indeed) As for my complaints, it isn't that I don't like redemption stories, I love both red deads and Daud's DLC for dishonored, it's just that simply put Abby's fell flat on me. That's really it. I tried to like her as a character, but with the way the story is structured, Jerry not ever being meant to have a relevance to the story, and her moments of hypocrisy throughout the game I wasn't able to sympathize with her. I'm glad you acknowledge what most players would've wanted without being condescending. Along with calling people transphobes, I've also seen "The only reason people don't like this game is because they just wanted another Joel and Ellie story" as if that's a bad thing. Oh you mean a story that further expands upon the best part of the first game and further develops that? Yes, I would've loved that, how'd you know lmao. They act as if Joel and Ellie's relationship isn't the reason they fell in love with the story in the first place. Now for me I wouldn't have wanted just a copy of the first game with no conflict, I don't mind the game killing Joel, I just would've preferred to see the story in the flashbacks told in real time and seeing Joel and Ellie spend more time together before he dies. But also I still respect you if you prefer the story we got, there's no right or wrong opinion, and seriously more power to you, there's nothing I wanted more than to like this game. 1:21:23 I'm glad you found that as entertaining as I did. See, even if we have differing opinions on the game, we can not only have a constructive discussion, but also laugh at a small child falling off a cliff lmao
Thank you for this absolute gem of a video! 1:13:32 had me laughing so hard, I couldn't breathe for 2 straight minutes man (and I say man in a very non-gender-specific way)
I bought 2 specifically for gameplay. Actually funny enough after getting to Abby's part I lowkey got bored. I ended up booting up no return, unlocked Joel and that's about as much good as this game gets
@@ineedwafflestabernacle After Abby kills Ellie trying to get to Joel, however not succeeding in killing Joel. Retreats to Seattle. Joel and Tommy chase her down for revenge, we explore Joel as he breaks down into the most evil version of himself. Struggling to keep himself in check as he brutalized all of Abby's friends. Eventually leading to a showdown between her and Joel, where Joel has a reverse version of his own death. Crippling Abby as he looks down in pure hatred. Explaining why he killed her dad, with no regret for his actions. He gives her one last look before saying. "If I were given a second chance in that hospital...I'd do it all again." Bashing a pipe over her face while it cuts to black.
That whole part with Abby felt so pointless 10 hours long and it brings the game to a grinding halt when you get to that moment when you have to switch to her just as it’s getting interesting and since it does a poor job making her and her friends likeable it just ends up feeling like 10 hours of filler. And damn that ending, How depressing was that shit? No Gf, No baby, No Joel, No fingers, can’t play guitar. Some might find that a bold narrative choice, but that just left me feeling sad that two good characters from the previous game were torn down just to make room for two new ones that I couldn’t give af about. Idk I just don’t see what other people see in the story.
Dude seriously. There's a reason why in most dual narrative stories, they tell both perspectives at the same time, because otherwise you fucking KILL the pacing because you force the audience to restart the whole story all over again. And hey don't worry, if you didn't like the ending Neil has come out and said that "there might be another chapter in this story" and that he has "a potential concept for the next game" so we can relive our suffering all over again :) I hate it here
Troy thought he was being so deep and profound by saying "David did nothing wrong" and that "David was just protecting his tribe like Joel" meanwhile David kidnapped a 14 year old girl and attempted to molest her. Yeah Troy, David is just like Joel. I especially liked that part where one of David's men said that Ellie was "His newest pet" which means that this isn't the first time he's done something like that and they're all okay with it. Oh and another small thing, in the behind the scenes documentary they made about the game, Troy says "People tell me that they didn't like what happened to Joel, and I say great, write me a better version of the story. And to this day they still can't." which is just further clown behavior from him. That's exactly what kids in my elementary school would say when someone insulted something they liked lmao.
I dont hate this game , in fact its like a car crash in the highway you cant look away from it amazes me how 4 years later I still find flaws in the story 😂 and I am no writer I just watch a lot of tv and movies
You don't have to be a writer to be able to criticize a bad story, just like how you don't need to be a chef to know that something tastes like shit or a songwriter to dislike a song.
This game will forever put a bad taste in my mouth. I bought it with every intention of playing as adult Ellie and honestly I always predicted Joel would die at some point. But this game rushed his death. It also never made sense to me why Abby and her crew left Tommy and Ellie alive. They traveled miles to bash someone’s skull in for killing their friends and Abby’s father. Why would you ever think Ellie and Tommy wouldn’t come after you in the same way too? Also Abby could have been a great character, I truly believe that but she was poorly introduced and poorly written. I wish they had given her backstory first, before killing Joel. This game also seems to punish Ellie for revenge, she loses everything and even a few fingers so she can’t play guitar which is her one connection with Joel. She is by herself which was her biggest fear. Abby on the other hand gets Lev and learns the fireflies are still around so she’s going to find what’s left of them. Abby also never once seems conflicted with her choices to kill Joel. He saved her and she immediately beats him to death. She should have some type of inner conflict or i don’t know, maybe realize that she did to Ellie what Joel did to her? I don’t know. This game was a mess and just put a bad taste in my mouth. Great video!
When I first played this game I actually really enjoyed it. I thought the story was pretty good and it posed a lot of interesting questions and ideas, and the combat is a ton of fun, still enjoy that aspect of it to this day, it’s pretty top notch. But as the years have gone by, multiple video essays I’ve watched (both positive and negative) and around 9 playthroughs (mostly for its combat, it’s my favorite part of the game hands down) I’ve come to realize there are numerous problems with the story and how it’s written. I’ve spent an extensive amount of time discussing this game with other people and to be honest I don’t really feel like writing another long winded comment on all the issues this game has, but where I’ve ultimately fallen is that, it’s a really cool idea on paper. I really vibe with the vision behind it, but it just doesn’t have the proper leg work/writing for any of it to really work in a satisfying way. It took me a long time to realize, I was more in love with the idea behind the game, rather than the game itself. I almost feel like the last of us part 2 fools you into thinking it’s better than it is, i’ve noticed that with a lot of the positive video essays on the last of us part two, they more so talk about philosophy and the games themes and ideas rather than how well the game actually pulled those things off. (ArrTorrs “The Unmistakable Humanity of The Last Of Us” is one that comes to mind) I don’t believe these people are being disingenuous, but I feel like they’ve gotten so caught up in the games themes that they never really stopped to look at hell poorly the game actually executed its ideas. A lot of the positivity towards this game I feel it comes from people who are generally pretty open minded and empathetic. And they’re in printing their own ideas and morals back onto the game which helps them connect with it on a deeper level without realizing that they’re imprinting their own ideas and take aways from its narrative back onto the game itself, and somehow coming to the conclusion that their own thoughts and feelings on it are what the game intended. It’s sort of like a cycle of self indulgent confirmation bias. I’m a pretty open minded person, and if a piece of art can make you feel something, if you can pull strong emotions out of you. Then that’s pretty cool, but on a fundamental and I would argue objective level, TLOU2 has a LOT of problems. So much of its narrative relies on contrivance and teleporting characters around to where they need to be for certain plot events to happen and none of it really feels organic or earned. I don’t hate TLOU2. At the end of the day, I really respect it for what is attempted but I really just don’t think Neil had the writing chops to really pull off the vision for what he had in mind, which is a shame because I really wanted it to work. I definitely think there’s something really special here but the potential just wasn’t reached.
I can't give you anything to show it, but just know that I highly respect you for being the only person to catch that reference, and also the max payne profile pic
I love that radio station , and since I'm from Argentina its fun to know what the songs say also I'm gonna check out your other videos your editing is hilarious also thanks , I only wrote my name in the max payne pic 😂 I was gonna have a Baseball Fury profile pic from The Warriors
@@chris_player2995 it's cliche, but my favorite from VCS is Flash, it really just perfectly captures that games setting and atmosphere. Thanks man, I appreciate you watching and sticking around. Also I haven't played the warriors, but it's on my list of old rockstar games to go through along with manhunt
Part Two is the better one. More expansive, complex story, brave plot decisions, character psychology, moral themes... It's been years and I'm still in awe of this game. Some of the scenes drag. So what?
The so what is that I didn't enjoy it, which I'm allowed to do and voice my opinions about why, while still acknowledging the good in the game. Which creates an actual conversation that welcomes both sides rather than "No this game is better than the first. So what if you didn't like it" unlike you. That's the so what
So what??? He gave you an 1hour plus video worth of "so what", did you not watch it man? Did you? Do you want him to remaster this video and remake it into a sequel so it'll anwer your delimma proper?
sucks cause technically, the game is great. its fun to play, the combat and animations are so well handled but the story just makes zero sense. Joel somehow forgot he was living in the apocalypse for some reason and lost all his survival knowledge cause he lived in a tribal settlement for a few years. literally forced a narrative to get a specific outcome. Like, they came up with the scene of Joel being viciously killed FIRST, then wrote the rest of the story and thought "how can we get this legendary survivor to just walk in to a trap like a moron".. "OHHHH, we write the story now so we can just make him a moron".
Another example of that is the final cutscene. They wanted Ellie to forgive Abby but couldn't come up with a legitimate reason for it because it confused people, so they added in a flashback with Joel to help explain why she did it. Except that means that Ellie knew about the porch flashback with Joel for the entire game and never once bothered to bring it up or come to terms with it until the ending just because it'd be a dramatic reveal for the player.
Nah, everything about this game is masterful, top 3 game of all time for me. story had questionable moments, but ultimately made sense and wasn’t pointless decisions
It's subjective but you're speaking like objectively the story still made sense when it just didn't. The story structure and pacing is all over the place, characters are so inconsistent. The only theme that stays the same is how incredibly bleak and depressing everything is. It's not a character study though, these characters feel as flat as can be. Gameplay is fun and probably better than the first game but this is delusion on a whole other level
You're welcome to like it but to dismiss any criticism or opinions of the other side and say "Nah this game is masterful" misses the entire point of the video.
@@WolfRazor everything is in the eye of the beholder obviously, but you can’t say i’m delusional that’s just blatantly wrong, i’m not the only person at all that thinks that this game is a masterpiece. the story is tough to follow along, but once you understand that the game is about the unfair and brutal nature of the world they’re in, everything makes sense
@@ineedwafflestabernacle I feel that she kinda deserved it. Abby killing Joel didn't help her move past her trauma. If the game ended there, she wouldn't have her happy ending. But when she found Lev and Yara (⚠when she found something new to fight for⚠), and helped them, she was able to move past the trauma and be happy for once. Even after Ellie (and tommy) killed every single one of her friends, Abby let Ellie and Dina live, and she let it go. She ended up being much happier with Lev. Ellie couldn't let that trauma from Joel go (which I do not blame her for). She ended up losing everything and everyone. She let it go at the very end by not killing Abby. I do think she deserved maybe a happier ending for that. But when you realize that Ellie left for Santa Barbara without Dina's bracelet, but came back to the farm with it, meaning she must have met up with Dina before coming back to the farm, her ending doesn't seem so bleak.
I explain it in the video, but yes they do, and by this game it's become repetitive and that along with how long it takes to get to the place in question, it makes the game feel extremely tedious. Especially since Ellie's entire section in Seattle is spent following leads on Abby that go nowhere
If I had a dime for every triple A game I've played that takes place in the summer where Troy Baker is a cynical untrusting old man that lost his daughter who gets the responsibility of transporting a young girl with a special ability who he ends up breaking down his cold exterior for and bonding throughout the events of the game released in 2013
This is just about the most perfectly summed up essay ofthis disasterpiece of a game I've seen to date. Only the second installment in and they nailed it to a cross. DOA. What a terrible way to destroy this would be masterpiece of a franchise. If Joel had died in a poetic and relevant way by the third installment, no one would have had a problem with it. They would have lamented him as a beloved hero they grew up with and accepted his death as a book end to a trilogy. But no. We got the CW instead.
Couldn’t disagree more. I think it’s a beautiful, moving story about what it means to be human. There’s so much more to it than just being about the cycle of violence.
I heard mixed reviews about this game I played the first one back in 2013 still have some fond memories of it… eventually I’ll get to this game & review it myself
That's what I'd recommend, I didn't like it but I'd still recommend someone who hasn't played it to play it for themselves to form their own opinion on it
@@ineedwafflestabernacle spoiler i did not watch the video man you’re getting intense over a random comment relax bro it’s ok sorry for commenting damn
Awesome video, the game is really dumb but still like it cus of Ellie. All your points are valid and finally someone who can discuss the game without wanting to kill the other person. Also the graph at 1:02:37 when Joel dies should be maxed, tension is trough the roof but then we just tp to Seattle outta nowhere
The issue isn't simply with anyone who likes the game, the issue is with people who like this game AND insult anyone who doesn't, that's the main difference. Also dude seriously, I know I said it a lot in the video but that graph is such a good visual representation of why this game fell flat for me. I felt so seen the first time I saw it. I highly recommend you go watch The Closer Look's video on this game, that shit was my Bible back in 2020 lmao
For sure, will go take a look at it thanks. Also just watched your video on skyrim and oblivion, fucking amazing. Keep up the stellar content man @@ineedwafflestabernacle
No it was just a good opportunity to talk about the game while it's new in everyone's mind again, I said exactly that in the first minute. Which you'd know if you actually watched the video instead of blind commenting
There should be a mode called no story mode, where you just play and enjoy the combat from beginning to end. And, no, I will not be paying any sum of cash for the "DLC" that just came out. Unless if it is on the Ps4. Cause, I aint buying a ps5 fo that.
that mode could have easily been in the game from day one , or being a bonus like the Mercenaries mode in RE! it took them 4 years and a new console for a shitty cod zomboes / mercenaries ripoff
@@dingo5797One of my favorite parts of the game. I only used it a few times because I needed the 100GB of storage on my PS4, but it was still lots of fun
It’s fairly flawed in a few areas in terms of plot armor and contrivance certainly, but I can’t call the whole game complete trash. It’s really only a few aspects of the prologue, Ellie Day 3, and Ellie’s epilogue/Rattlers up to the beach that I had issues with. Abby’s section was actually the least flawed to me, 1-2 moments of plot armor, a few moments of something being too blatant, and 1 decently missed opportunity and that’s it really. I do have issues pertaining to the structure though, as you kind of have to go through the game piecing together Joel’s softening that led him to his death alongside aspects of him from the first game. Also yes, I don’t like how the halfway point of the game absolutely destroys a lot of tense and suspense that has to be built up again too. That’s just story of course. I still believe that there’s something more to this game than what it seems to be on the surface. I will admit though that Ellie’s travels near the end of this game are definitely insane.
The only big issues I have with the prologue was the connivance of the horde pushing all the characters in the right direction and Joel leaving his supplies on a horse right after getting away from an infected horde. I’m a bit hyped by the fact that ‘Grounded II’ and the cutscene commentary might actually touch on these things and give me more insight. To defend Abby Day 3 though Ellie definitely took a Seattle vehicle and her and Dina collaborated while driving on the main roads the WLF used while everyone else was still the island. Ellie being able to make the journey to SB herself with all the issues she has…yeah it’s fairly hard to suspend disbelief there. Even worse when it comes to the journey back in her weakened state. I don’t have serious issues with the first journey or the journey to Salt Lake City either. It’s apparently 6-8 hours on horseback and Joel came in the morning by the way so he was definitely a few hours behind at least.
I think Bruce was mainly criticizing the motivation. Joel got her brother killed so indirectly that it’s ridiculous that Tess would just do a 180 on Joel like that and hunt him down for around a year. It was also bad for the plot too, because Tess and her group literally pop up out of nowhere near the end of the game, ambush Joel, and then a sort of uno card thing was done where you thought Joel died but then it turns out that it was actually Ellie going back for him and shooting Tess. I feel like the whole idea was done much better in this game, there was a lot more driving Abby and of course Mel was Jerry’s top student, and Salt Lake Crew were like family to each other for a long time as well.
Hey man! I'm currently a nobody with no proper videos (or even a profile pic lol) so this might sound like bullshit, but I'm making a huge YMS styled review of this game and I'd like to send you some parts of my script to get some feedback and just discuss it further, since you seem just as obsessed with this game as I am lmao I have cooked up a weird conspiracy theory that this game wasn't originally meant to be set in the same universe as The Last of Us and I need someone to tell me I'm not crazy I'm gonna send my discord tag in the replies since TH-cam seems to have flagged my other comment
Lol if people love 2 im happy for them. Naughty Dog was my favorite studio but the way they sh#t on some of my favorite characters ever had me drop them and just thank god that Neil f#@$man didnt get to touch and ruin Uncharted. The game looks beautiful and it plays great. But that story and character assassination, especially for joel... Nah. I have never been more disappointed in a game i was so hype for in my life. Again, if you love it please love the hell out of it but i men in black memory wiped my mind after this game, sold my last of 2 collectors edition for close to nothing just so I didnt have to look at it anymore lol
My thoughts exactly (although Neil did work on Uncharted 4, there's a whole controversy about it) like the game was so much fun and I'd love nothing more than to say I enjoyed it, but once I found myself playing certain sections just to get them over with rather than out of actual enjoyment, that's when I had to accept that the game wasn't for me
Also it's funny because I literally did the exact same thing, I returned my copy because I knew I was never gonna play it again and so I wouldn't have to see it sit next to all the games I own that I actually do like lmao
@@ineedwafflestabernacle that's what I'm saying. That's the only game I ever got rid of the first week. The writing was just the savage murderer of the game for me. Maybe I was too attached to the characters from part 1. Idk but when I see anything with Neil attached to it now I can't even give it a second of time. That's why I didn't watch tlou show, even though everyone says it slaps. Then when I was about to, they announced season 2 will tell the story of the second game. In the immortal words of that little girl from that meme "no thanks" lol. Good vid, I watched it all the way through
@@marcusbgaming350me personally I didn't watch the show because I've played the first game so much that I know the whole story top to bottom so I didn't really see a point in watching it. But yeah, even if I won't watch it I'm genuinely curious to see how they handle season 2 since there's a lot of people who only know the story from the show, so it'd be interesting to see if all the controversy surrounding 2 happens again in real time
Nah, man I hate his politics and that TLOU2 was some bizzare Zionist piece. It pollutes the entire title. Love you rocking the GIR avi man.@@ineedwafflestabernacle
I bought it because I was interested in the game, was curious to see why it was so controversial, and because I loved the first game and wanted to see what they did. Do you really think I'm so miserable that I'd go out and spend $60 on something I know I'm not going to enjoy?
Imagine dismissing any opinion that isn't yours as wrong like a stubborn child instead of attempting to have an open discussion, oh wait you don't need to 😯
This game has some of the best shooting mechanics, best graphics, best acting, best story telling, smartest A.I., best environments in gaming history. Yea let me have an open discussion with a troll who spent days on a troll video 🤔
@@Vincetagrammm alright man, if it's easier for you to blindly say that I'm wrong and refuse to have any sort of discussion because I'm just a "troll" then you do you, maybe one day you'll realize not everyone who disagrees with you is immediately wrong. By the way I checked out your channel and your shorts are really funny, especially the parody one on making money fast, it's a shame you aren't actually as chill as you seem in your videos
Why are you trying to act smug when you just said I don't have a brain for not liking this game. You aren't the winner here, having a brain means being reasonable enough to dislike something and still being open to the other side, not immediately insulting someone who doesn't agree with you instead of acknowledging any of their criticisms
If I wanted to rage bait grift I'd go the easy route and spew out the same bs about how the game is woke trash just because it has black people in it and how it's zionist propaganda, but instead I presented valid criticisms with it and acknowledged people are more than welcome to like this game and if you can't see that then that sounds like you a problem :)
If you respected people's opinions you would've actually watched the video before commenting on it. Also they're still attempting to charge $50 for the remaster, everyone keeps focusing on the $10 upgrade for previous owners that they've seemingly ignored that it's nearly full price again for anyone who hasn't played it
@@ineedwafflestabernacle Oh I see, then I take back my original comment, clearly took some misinfo from another content creator. So that one's on me! but yeah as you said, I suppose if you own a digital only version PS5, then yeah your are out of luck, which is quite scummy. Either way great video dude, keep up the good work!
These videos just keep being ridiculous. Hate hate hate. This game was a masterpiece don’t like it ? Don’t buy it why waste your time to hate. This story was fantastic I can’t see even with all reasons that’s been given with all hate how people want to build hateful novels about it.
These comments just keep being ridiculous. This video was a masterpiece don't like it ? Don't watch it why waste your time to hate. This video was fantastic I can't see even with all reasons that's been given with all hate how people want to build hateful novels about it 😭😭😭😭😞😭😭
@@ineedwafflestabernacle lmao I didn’t watch it I watched 2 minutes and I can bet you did this video before when the game came out you realized you didn’t like it. What’s silly is making another average hate video about something just to rake more views in. Dropped the day of the remaster release to pull the in the people who hated the game. Look you do you I ain’t saying people shouldn’t get to make these videos there just ridiculous at this point
@@dreamalitymangacreator5891 You watched 2 minutes of a 1 hour and 20 minute video and immediately concluded it's an average hate video. How are you even attempting to have an argument here
If you have to convince someone a game is a masterpiece then it isn't a masterpiece. You're literally the worst kind of fan for this game, just let people have their own opinion. I don't care if you liked it but when you come here and take the time to write a stupid ass comment like this without even listening to any criticism it just goes to show how ignorant and blind you are. Not everyone needs to agree with you
@@ineedwafflestabernacle dude the game sold millions and is highly reviewed and majority praised. Its a good game. Its ppl like u finding the negative in everything good and want to be different and cool so bad. Its not COD or madden just enjoy the damn game its clearly good u cant name 10 better console games ever created than TLOU
i loved part 2 initially but this video's genuinely making my reevaluate why i liked it in the first place. The story that they had could've been executed so much better if they had more fresh eyes to the story but neil was too confident in himself that he overlooked so many characters and their actions as long as they arrived to the next story beat.
Grounded II even states for the first time in naughty dog history, they solidified the entire story early in development. From one of the comments made during the documentary, they even considered hiring another writer but halley was so adamant in writing the story her way, pushing for the more melodramatic moments. On top of that, one of the cut levels in the remaster focus more on ellie's suffering with joels death with her hallucinating his corpse in place of a clickers'.
I admittedly was dismissive of criticism like the people you made fun of, but for both sides of the argument you really have to dig for rational conversation and this video was incredible for that, thanks man
i say man in a very non-gender specific way
I'm glad to hear that you eventually came around to listening to criticism even though you liked the game, not a lot of people can do that (especially fans of this game, as you can see from this comments section)
As for the story, you pretty much summed it up perfectly. I saw what they were going for but the writing and pacing just made it fall short of its' full potential. I haven't seen Grounded II yet, but I do know that Neil basically confirmed Part III in it so I guess the "ah shit, here we go again" joke in the video is more potent than ever lmao. I am very morbidly curious to see where they go with the plot though, because Ellie and Abby both had definitively solid endings.
Dude it is SO difficult to find rational discussion on this game, I thought that making fun of people on both sides and expressly stating in the video that it doesn't matter what you think of this game would result in an actual conversation taking place, but a large majority of the comment section ended up being people who saw the title, didn't bother watching, and went "No you're wrong" so thank you for being one of the few reasonable ones. I'm glad my video was able to help you recognize some of the flaws in the game, but don't let it alone fully convert you to disliking the game, you can still enjoy something while recognizing the flaws in it. Again, thanks for watching and taking the time to write out a constructive comment, you're really mature for being able to switch from a blind fan to being open to criticism man.
And I of course mean man in a very non gender specific way
what i hate is when people say its objectively a good story when its objectively not. there r so many flaws on a basic story telling level and just bc people r ok w over looking that doesnt make the story objectively well written. like the 2nd game has flaws like season 8 thrones and when people can like both they r objectively bad.
Exactly, for example Ellie knows about the flashback on the porch with Joel for the entire game, yet doesn't at all mention it or act based on it until the very end of the game when she spares Abby. Just so they can justify the ending they want to tell and give the player a dramatic moment at the end. That is shit writing. A character acting on the audience's knowledge of events rather than their own.
@@ineedwafflestabernacle yup or how ellie didnt get ptsd till the farm scene. and on top of that ellies ptsd even had abby torturing Joel in it. which means Ellie is actually just completely overlooking that aspect of Joels death so she can rationalize not killing Abby.
@@ineedwafflestabernacle theres also the fact Abby after her 3 day character arc immediately turns her back on everything she learned by thinking Ellie should have been grateful she didnt get tortured to death.
the biggest mistake imo was retconning the hospital scene they pulled that premise out of nowhere
Yeah seriously. It's so obvious if you replay the first game that the hospital scene was never meant to be more than what it is, so them basing an ENTIRE game off of it and trying to make it seem more important than it originally was ruins any form of empathy I could have for Abby because it feels too forced
The game never ended it felt like, just kept going on and on. Plus hitting the climax at the 50% mark and suddenly having to start all over for the second half
Holy shit, that's so accurate. There were so many moments when I thought the game was gonna end and it just kept going. I thought the first theater was the end, then the beginning of Day 2 as Abby, and then the farm, I got so much emotional whiplash. Also yeah, I'll never understand them basically restarting the entire story halfway through only to reach the exact same climax again 10 hours later
@@ineedwafflestabernacleI have heard that from a developing perspective it would be hard to play as Ellie on day 1 then Abby day 1, Ellie day 2 and so on. I could be wrong as I am not 100% sure if that was it, as I may be mixing it up with something else that was hard to develop on the game.
Also just a really great video you have made. I recently played the first game again, and started to watch some more recent made reviews on Tlou2. As I was quite disappointed with Tlou2, and not sure if I would play it again. So I watched these newer videos to get another perspective ( As they put a much more positive light on the game, and says it’s a misunderstood masterpiece).
They talk about how Joel’s character would let his guard down because he had settled down and found hobbies. I feel like their point would work maybe with a normal person who hadn’t done horrible actions in the past, but just was careful. But you brought much more vital information in your video that is more true to Joel’s character. With examples from Tlou1 and the flashback in the hotel, of Joel’s carefulness. Joel had made a lot of enemies over the years, and his carefulness would only make sense to be going to the grave with him.
Points were also made of Abby and Levs dynamic and chemistry was the part of the game. I would say that’s quite absurd. Also there where points about how you didn’t want Abby to die to Ellie in the theatre. Because you felt sympathetic to Abby now, and less sympathy for Ellie as she had done gruesome actions to Abby’s friends and Abby hadn’t done anything bad recently as she was now “bestfriends” with lev and yara, and a good person. Not taking to consideration that Ellie felt bad for her actions and psychological damaged for the torture of Norah, a pregnant Mel’s death. And also not taking consideration that Ellie didn’t really have a choice with either Norah, Mel & Owen and the PSP girls deaths, as they all would have killed Ellie if she didn’t do anything (taking Norah down to ground zero, if she didn’t Wlf soldiers would have killed her, and she needed the info). But Abby gave Joel a brutal death, would like to kill a pregnant Dina, and no remorse for killing Jesse and the life treating injuries to Tommy.
I liked that they can find enjoyment with the game, but I can’t. They tried finding a newer perspective on the game, from 2020 with the common Joel death bad and Abby bad. But I feel like they left out huge part of what made the story bad, and how the characters really are, and your video made amazing points about how the game is not a masterpiece as they are puting it.
I wrote this on a phone so it’s probably quite messy (TH-cam glitched so most of this I had to rewrite and comes out a bit rushed). And also as you said it’s quite difficult to write down your thoughts, as they make much more sense in your brain and it’s hard to write down. Yeah just a really good video on The last of us part 2 you have made.
@@nikolaitykvenko Yeah I haven't heard anything about that first part either, but I do know they tried telling their stories side by side and switching between them in real time, but ultimately decided on what we got.
Also thanks man, I'm really glad you enjoyed. I've also watched a bunch of videos on the game (positive and negative) around its release to really see what both sides were saying but ultimately I just couldn't find the same enjoyment as people who liked the game.
As for Joel, yes, 100%. It is a COMPLETE 180 for a character as stubborn and untrusting as Joel to suddenly switch around, and they should've spent more time conveying that. A core part of Joel's character is that he's selfish; He doesn't care about hurting other people so long as he and Tommy survived, he didn't help the other family on the road even when he could, and ultimately he was willing to throw away humanity's chance for a cure because it'd hurt him too much to lose another daughter. So to get rid of that and not even convey the gradual in between of him going from untrusting to trusting is a huge disservice to him.
Ellie all throughout the game showed regret over the things she'd done, meanwhile Abby never once showed regret over killing Joel or anything else she'd done to the WLF or Ellie, her only emotional response to killing Joel was realizing it didn't solve anything.
And yeah same here, I wanted to like this game, and when I finished it I even watched a bunch of positive videos on it to see what people enjoyed about it so much, but once I realized I was trying to convince myself to like the game rather than just accepting how I felt about it on my first playthrough, I realized that this game simply just fell flat for me. I'm really glad some people do like it though, the last thing I wanted was to not enjoy this game and have this series ruined for me.
I really appreciate you watching and sharing your thoughts, I'm glad you enjoyed the video so much
Super cathartic to watch this. Thanks for taking the time
Thanks for taking the time to watch
Criminally underrated channel, ill be sticking around to watch more!
saving Yara...jesus what a long ass Sidemission disguised as a main one only to have her gunned down
coincidentally, that was the same part of the game where I realized Abby had an upgrade tree and it dawned on me that "Oh my god, this isn't just a short half hour section, this is gonna be a large chunk of the game"
You really just said everything i had to say about this game in this video, they were trying to get you to like the characters after they killed joel, like i just dont care.
I'm glad to hear you can also agree. And yeah, I mean just the simple fact that Jerry was a random NPC in the first game makes it impossible for me to care about Abby as a character
@@ineedwafflestabernacle any other game would usually get you to know the characters before they do something you hate them for, it was impossible for me to like abby when the first time i saw her was when she killed joel.
And i loved the video, you are a funny dude and the video was so well edited and the way you talk is just incredible both in the vid and the comments, i need to watch more of your content after this
@@xxmichael-aftonxx1426 They really just simply did a poor job of writing Abby. There's plenty of other stories that have a "bad" character but write them well enough to have you care about them. I listed a few of them in the video like Vito Scoletta and Joel from the first game, but in movies there's Neil McCauley from Heat, The Driver from Drive, and Tyler Durden from Fight Club. All of them are horrible people, but they're well written enough that people still like them as characters and enjoy watching them. It's a very common thing in storytelling, Neil and Halley just fucked it up with 2 and weren't able to do it well enough to have everyone on board with the story they wanted to tell.
And thanks man, I really appreciate you saying that and enjoying the video. I can't say I've ever been complimented on how I talk but it's very flattering. Hope you enjoy the rest of the stuff I've made, and I'm currently working on new stuff, it's just taking a while to finish.
The entire game is just all that happened in Ellies head after she smoked that weed
Nah the whole first and second game were all just a dream Sarah was having before Joel woke her up
of all the names they used for enemy NPC's they use someone we never get to kill
I believe the main reason why fans hate this game so is due to the fact that Naughty Dog pulled the wool over everyone’s eyes. When fans saw the teaser trailer for the first time, they all thought that Joel and Ellie were back for a proper sequel. Instead, the actual game substituted that Asian dude saying Joel’s lines from the teaser trailer. Naughty Dog knew that they couldn’t sell the game without Joel, and they marketed it as if Joel & Ellie were going to have one last journey together.
Exactly, they showed Abby in trailers but never explained who she was. At either the 2016 or 17 PSX panel the interviewer asked Neil if Ellie's mom was in the game because people thought Abby was her mom, and he didn't provide a straight answer and just said something vague like "You'll see" The marketing was inspired by Metal Gear Solid 2 where all the promotional material showed Snake except you play the game and it's like 90% Raiden, except Metal Gear Solid 2 was a masterfully written game so Kojima could get away with shit like that, whereas with Last of Us 2, well we both know what happened there
@@ineedwafflestabernacle I like the first game & thought it was very good. That for me is where The Last of Us ends. TLOU Part 2 is like a shitty movie sequel that fans ignore and don’t associate it with the franchise. Like the Disney Star Wars movies or the Jaws sequels.
@@andrewhemsley7500 "You see there was a sequel. Wasn't as good"
@@ineedwafflestabernacle the irony of it all
This is an amazing video
I'm glad you enjoyed it
Honestly I don't think TLOU needed a sequel
Neither did I honestly. I was curious to see what they would do in a sequel, but the first games open ending kinda gets thrown out the window with the existence of a sequel
same with The Incredibles 2 (we had Rise of the Underminer for the ps2 😅)
@@LowOnAmmoLoa "no one loves these character more than we do"
*proceeds to have one killed and the other a broken person with no one to go home to and 2 missing fingers*
Great video. I love this game despite its flaws, but it is really refreshing to hear someone with actual criticisms rather than screeching that the game is “woke” or something
I'm glad you enjoyed. It's also referring to hear from someone who likes this game that's actually able to have a conversation about it rather than going "No you're wrong"
Someone else said it in the comments section and I touched on it in the video, but "woke" really is a nothing word. People use it as an excuse to label anything with minorities or capable women as bad, which takes away attention from actual pandering and bad representation in modern media.
Dina sucks , when Ellie had that PTSD kick in she was so...weird , hug her or something , tell her everything is ok idk
That Troy baker clip had me fucking dying, you've infected me with that shit now.
No matter how many times I watch it, even when I know it's coming, it still always blindsides me
OMG another retrospective on this game ive probably seen like 200 hours of this game before even playin it (still waiting for pc release)
I hope there isn't a PC release, these games are both good but they're not a TV Show, 2 remasters, a PC port, and an entire remake of the first game from 2013 good
what do you mean a you dont want it ported so more ppl like me that dont play on consoles cannot try and form an opinion on the game wth XD@@ineedwafflestabernacle
Stop trying to put words in my mouth. I don't want it ported because this series has already run its course, they've expanded upon everything they could in this world and it's time for them to make something new. They've retold the story of the first game twice, remastered both of them, released two behind the scenes documentaries, and are now gonna retell the second games story again as a TV show. That's why I don't want a PC port, not because I "don't want people who can't play the game to form their own opinion" which isn't even a valid point. If you really want the story there's literally nothing stopping from just watching someone else play it
@@ineedwafflestabernacle what about the gameplay i know its a dogshit console "game" but there is still just like you said in the video some fun from the gameplay i agree with the games being remastered like 12 times is stupid but port isnt the same as a remaster
It doesn't matter if a port is different from a remaster, it's still them reselling the same game again. They've resold the first game 4 times, and now the second one twice. If you really wanted to play the second game that bad then you already would've by now.
It's never not gonna be funny to me how they made a game with the message "violence and vengeance bad mmkay" and also gave me one of the best murder sims out there.
Also, my ultimate biggest issue with the narrative is the writers have no balls. If they had confidence in their ability to write they would've made killing Abby a choice. Because they would've trusted the entirety of the game would lead players to make the choice the writers wanted.
But they didn't. Because they knew they failed to convince most players to be merciful after letting them kill enough people that the post apocalypse population of the US was probably halved.
Playing the game felt like a 5 star chef preparing you a meal and then attempting to make you feel bad for eating it. If I'm supposed to feel bad about the killing why did you make it so much fun and make an entire rogue like mode based around the killing.
It's hilarious that they tried to pass off Ellie sparing Abby as "true to her character" when in reality it's because they failed to have people care about Abby. The play testers wanted to kill her and when she didn't they were still confused about why Ellie spared her. Every problem with the ending they knew about and still went with it. We live in a society.
Also "post apocalyptic US population was probably halved" took me out
"violence and revenge is bad" *Pops some pills to upgrade*
Omg the Danny thing isn’t that we are supposed to care about Danny - we don’t, we don’t know or care who he is. It’s that he was ON PATROL WITH OWEN. Abby is worried the dead body is going to BE Owen. AND THEN that if Owens patrol partner is dead then wtf has happened to Owen?? It’s literally not about Danny at all 😭
4 years later and yall still cant enjoy the game for what it is. a masterpiece in disguise
You make fortnite and Minecraft videos
@@ineedwafflestabernacle And you make salty Last of Us videos... I mean you are stuborn i give you that but being stuborn about a bad take isnt really a positive... I dont know one person in real life that still dislike the game. Most people online ive seen that stuck with the hate either cut ties entirely to Last of Us part 2 content or only searched "Why Last of us part 2 sucks" on youtube hoping for affirmation. It has gone from a overwhelming majority of fans that hated the game even before release, to a overwhelmingly positive reception today.
the game isn't good fam, still receives negative reception for its ridiculous narrative. The game isn't horrible but also isn't amazing or good. The fans that hated the game at launch still dislike the game now and those who loved the game at launch still love the game now. @@warlorddk2070
@@warlorddk2070 you're right, I'm sorry for disagreeing. My opinion is invalid because it doesn't line up with yours and people you personally know in your life. Anything I personally felt about the game after I went out and bought it with my own money to form my own opinion is wrong, and since it's been 4 years since it came out that automatically means I can't dislike it anymore.
Fuck no, the ending sucks, the story is just terrible, the gameplay and graphics are amazing tho
Responding to a 1.5-hour video in a YT comment on a phone is pretty exhausting, so hopefully I can be forgiven for focusing on some highlights rather than being comprehensive.
30:16 | Imagine if in the first game, Henry shot himself and then there was a smash-cut to black and suddenly you were in Colorado.
You acknowledge that gap and say there's a difference, but I just don't buy it. Was that not a result of "needing the characters to be in the right place" in service of the story? I get that there's some suspension of disbelief required at times, but so what? So there's another game's worth of story there? Honestly, what of it? Why is the relative irrelevance to the story not a good enough reason to cut it?
As a wise man once said, "just because something is realistic doesn't make it compelling from a story prospective".
52:00 | Really not sure what the point is here. That Jerry should have been black? That retconning some minor details is supposed to be some deep betrayal? Yeah, Jerry almost certainly didn't exist during the development of Part 1. Who cares?
55:06 | Well that's great for you, but Joel blew away her dad for trying to perform a potentially-world-changing operation on somebody who spent the last year fighting like hell to show up for it (Ellie's feeling about how all of this went down and how that feeling differs from Joel's is a pretty big part of Ellie's story, by the way). I'm not sure that you can call what Joel did "self-defense" or anything particularly close to it.
56:35 | ...And then Ellie chases Abby to Santa Barbara to take another swing at her.
1:19:00 | I know you're not trying to argue right now that Ellie's tragic ending in Part 2 isn't a consequence of her actions...
I appreciate some of the concessions you made at the beginning of this video (I agree that a lot of the characterizations of people who argue over this game are ridiculous), and there are some silly things going on in this game (what the hell *is* Mel doing out in the field?), but at lot of these complaints just sound petty or specific to yourself. I truly think there are some people for whom this story was just never going to work. I don't like to go so far as to say that some people aren't receptive to stories of redemption or stories that try to get one to empathize with somebody they've been primed to dislike, but that does seem to be the common thread in a lot of these opinion pieces - "I know you want me to like Abby, but there's nothing you could do to make that happen". Maybe that's not such a charitable interpretation, but it's difficult for me to see it any other way. You don't like Abby especially not when she's opposed with Ellie and you never will, never would, never could, and that's the sort of attitude that the game was trying to combat.
You say that you don't need to the game to tell you that you don't like to see bad things happen to characters you love, and maybe I agree. Maybe tribalism is far too deeply ingrained in some people to bother trying to do anything about it. Maybe it is a futile pursuit. But I still think it's a noble one.
Seems like you, like many others, were looking for The Adventures of Joel and Ellie Part 2, and you know what, fair enough, I guess. I think that what we got was far more interesting. More flawed, but more ambitious.
1:21:32 | That made all the work I put into this comment worth it.
Okay first of all, even though you disagree I'd like to thank you for watching the entire video before commenting and writing out an actually elaborate response rather than "No I like this game so you're wrong" this games fandom needs more people like you.
So with Henry and Sam. I said I'd be willing to excuse a distance skip if it happened once, and that's the only instance of a MASSIVE distance we see none of in the first game. In the second game there's 13 entire journeys/skips we see none of, compared to just 4 in the first game. You may be fine with the game skipping over possible stories, but for me personally my favorite subtle aspect of the first game was seeing how different parts of the US handled the outbreak, and so to see the 2nd game just ignore locations that could be really interesting like Las Vegas or the surrounding deserts made it feel lazy. Rather than actually showing off more of this world, they gloss over it and sum it up in some short journal entries. It's irrelevance to the story is my exact issue, because it shouldn't have been. Besides the first game being about the journey and how difficult long distance travel is in this world, you can't deny that it would've been more interesting to see Ellie making her way to Santa Barbara and showing off her regrets along the way, where she acknowledges how insane what she's doing is and questions if it's even worth it. That would've expanded upon both the world, her as a solo character, and the ending as well since we would've seen the initial catalysts for her decision near the end. And also you have to admit it's kind of ridiculous that Ellie was able to traverse twice through all the dangers of that kind of geography in a post apocalyptic world when even in our modern world deserts are still seen as extremely dangerous due to wildlife, temperature, weather, and lack of resources.
The point isn't that Jerry shouldn't have been black, although that is a funny argument because I've seen people unironically say that lmao. The point is that it's very obvious Jerry wasn't intended to ever be more than a random NPC. He literally shares the same NPC model as some of the hunter enemies I'm pretty sure, and so when you make a sequel where the crux is this character and getting you to empathize with them, I can't care because they literally aren't important. It's one thing to write in a new character and make them important, after all Micah wasn't at all mentioned in Red Dead Redemption 1, yet he's the entire reason the gang fell apart. But the difference there is that Rockstar wrote him in a way that perfectly fit into the world, rather than picking some random pre existing NPC and saying "This specific character is now important because we want to tell this plot" it feels forced and contrived, instead of building something new they were insistent on telling a story involving Jerry, no matter how unimportant and forgettable he originally was.
I'm not saying Joel killed Jerry out of self defense, even if I agree with it I'm still able to acknowledge that morally what Joel did is a bad decision. The point I was getting at is Abby took things way too far compared to how Ellie reacted. Abby killed Joel yet Ellie never consciously planned to do any of the messed up things she did (torturing Nora, killing Mel and Owen) and afterwards Ellie shows regret for doing them, and also attempts to sympathize with Abby (which Abby doesn't even listen to or consider by the way) Abby doesn't. The only somewhat lingering feeling Abby has from killing Joel is "Huh I guess I was unsatisfied with my life for another reason" she never expressed any regrets over doing it. Also I'm sure most players shot him but Joel canonically didn't "blow Jerry away" if you just walk up to Jerry in the first game Joel stabs him in the neck with a scalpel. Still a brutal death but nowhere near shooting someone in the knee, tourniqueting their leg, and then repeatedly bashing them in the head with a golf club.
I don't see what you're getting at with this point.
It's not that her ending isn't a consequence of her actions, it's more that the ending feels extremely unnatural and overtly depressing because before this game Ellie had never displayed anything like that. She'd continuously lost people close to her, but none of that was ever directly her fault, it all just kind of happened to her. She didn't always end up alone because of what she personally did to other people, she kept losing people close to her because of the world they live in. Maybe you didn't see it that way, but to me it felt like way too harsh of an ending for her.
I'm glad you agree, dude it's insane how some people STILL keep up that narrative of "you don't like the game because you're transphobic" or "you like the game so you're a woke snowflake cuck" Throwing out terms such as "homophobic" and "transphobic" over people not liking a game rather than at people who actually are those things is not only deflecting because you don't want to acknowledge their opinion, but it also detracts from those words value and meaning and ends up diluting them. And as for the other side, honestly I don't even know what those people are on, they're out here being shocked that a woman is the main character of a video game and acting like it's some new form of "propaganda" as if Metroid didn't do exactly that back in 1986 lmao. (Also yes, what is Mel doing out indeed) As for my complaints, it isn't that I don't like redemption stories, I love both red deads and Daud's DLC for dishonored, it's just that simply put Abby's fell flat on me. That's really it. I tried to like her as a character, but with the way the story is structured, Jerry not ever being meant to have a relevance to the story, and her moments of hypocrisy throughout the game I wasn't able to sympathize with her.
I'm glad you acknowledge what most players would've wanted without being condescending. Along with calling people transphobes, I've also seen "The only reason people don't like this game is because they just wanted another Joel and Ellie story" as if that's a bad thing. Oh you mean a story that further expands upon the best part of the first game and further develops that? Yes, I would've loved that, how'd you know lmao. They act as if Joel and Ellie's relationship isn't the reason they fell in love with the story in the first place. Now for me I wouldn't have wanted just a copy of the first game with no conflict, I don't mind the game killing Joel, I just would've preferred to see the story in the flashbacks told in real time and seeing Joel and Ellie spend more time together before he dies. But also I still respect you if you prefer the story we got, there's no right or wrong opinion, and seriously more power to you, there's nothing I wanted more than to like this game.
1:21:23 I'm glad you found that as entertaining as I did. See, even if we have differing opinions on the game, we can not only have a constructive discussion, but also laugh at a small child falling off a cliff lmao
Thank you for this absolute gem of a video! 1:13:32 had me laughing so hard, I couldn't breathe for 2 straight minutes man (and I say man in a very non-gender-specific way)
I bought 2 specifically for gameplay. Actually funny enough after getting to Abby's part I lowkey got bored. I ended up booting up no return, unlocked Joel and that's about as much good as this game gets
Seeing gameplay of Joel in Seattle no return is like peeking into an alternate universe where this game was actually good and not a controversial mess
@@ineedwafflestabernacle After Abby kills Ellie trying to get to Joel, however not succeeding in killing Joel. Retreats to Seattle. Joel and Tommy chase her down for revenge, we explore Joel as he breaks down into the most evil version of himself. Struggling to keep himself in check as he brutalized all of Abby's friends. Eventually leading to a showdown between her and Joel, where Joel has a reverse version of his own death. Crippling Abby as he looks down in pure hatred. Explaining why he killed her dad, with no regret for his actions. He gives her one last look before saying. "If I were given a second chance in that hospital...I'd do it all again." Bashing a pipe over her face while it cuts to black.
That whole part with Abby felt so pointless 10 hours long and it brings the game to a grinding halt when you get to that moment when you have to switch to her just as it’s getting interesting and since it does a poor job making her and her friends likeable it just ends up feeling like 10 hours of filler.
And damn that ending, How depressing was that shit? No Gf, No baby, No Joel, No fingers, can’t play guitar. Some might find that a bold narrative choice, but that just left me feeling sad that two good characters from the previous game were torn down just to make room for two new ones that I couldn’t give af about.
Idk I just don’t see what other people see in the story.
Dude seriously. There's a reason why in most dual narrative stories, they tell both perspectives at the same time, because otherwise you fucking KILL the pacing because you force the audience to restart the whole story all over again. And hey don't worry, if you didn't like the ending Neil has come out and said that "there might be another chapter in this story" and that he has "a potential concept for the next game" so we can relive our suffering all over again :)
I hate it here
My favorite guy
my man
Hey, your biggest fan here! Quality video as always (been busy with school thats why I'm late lol)
Hey man no worries, school is much more important than watching my videos. I'm just glad to see you're back and that you enjoyed the video :)
8:17 is Troy Baker that desperate for a paycheck?
also when Ellie kills David she says "he tried to..." so YES IT WAS STATED
Troy thought he was being so deep and profound by saying "David did nothing wrong" and that "David was just protecting his tribe like Joel" meanwhile David kidnapped a 14 year old girl and attempted to molest her. Yeah Troy, David is just like Joel. I especially liked that part where one of David's men said that Ellie was "His newest pet" which means that this isn't the first time he's done something like that and they're all okay with it.
Oh and another small thing, in the behind the scenes documentary they made about the game, Troy says "People tell me that they didn't like what happened to Joel, and I say great, write me a better version of the story. And to this day they still can't." which is just further clown behavior from him. That's exactly what kids in my elementary school would say when someone insulted something they liked lmao.
@@ineedwafflestabernacle he should stick to acting , neither neil or troy understand these characters Bruce Straley does
I dont hate this game , in fact its like a car crash in the highway you cant look away from
it amazes me how 4 years later I still find flaws in the story 😂 and I am no writer I just watch a lot of tv and movies
You don't have to be a writer to be able to criticize a bad story, just like how you don't need to be a chef to know that something tastes like shit or a songwriter to dislike a song.
I don’t know how the 2nd game got more awards the 1st, makes absolutely no sense.
Probably because game awards are rigged, fan voting for GOTY only counts for 10% of actual votes meanwhile the other 90% is jury votes.
money
This game will forever put a bad taste in my mouth. I bought it with every intention of playing as adult Ellie and honestly I always predicted Joel would die at some point. But this game rushed his death. It also never made sense to me why Abby and her crew left Tommy and Ellie alive. They traveled miles to bash someone’s skull in for killing their friends and Abby’s father. Why would you ever think Ellie and Tommy wouldn’t come after you in the same way too?
Also Abby could have been a great character, I truly believe that but she was poorly introduced and poorly written. I wish they had given her backstory first, before killing Joel. This game also seems to punish Ellie for revenge, she loses everything and even a few fingers so she can’t play guitar which is her one connection with Joel. She is by herself which was her biggest fear. Abby on the other hand gets Lev and learns the fireflies are still around so she’s going to find what’s left of them. Abby also never once seems conflicted with her choices to kill Joel. He saved her and she immediately beats him to death. She should have some type of inner conflict or i don’t know, maybe realize that she did to Ellie what Joel did to her? I don’t know. This game was a mess and just put a bad taste in my mouth. Great video!
When I first played this game I actually really enjoyed it. I thought the story was pretty good and it posed a lot of interesting questions and ideas, and the combat is a ton of fun, still enjoy that aspect of it to this day, it’s pretty top notch.
But as the years have gone by, multiple video essays I’ve watched (both positive and negative) and around 9 playthroughs (mostly for its combat, it’s my favorite part of the game hands down) I’ve come to realize there are numerous problems with the story and how it’s written.
I’ve spent an extensive amount of time discussing this game with other people and to be honest I don’t really feel like writing another long winded comment on all the issues this game has, but where I’ve ultimately fallen is that, it’s a really cool idea on paper. I really vibe with the vision behind it, but it just doesn’t have the proper leg work/writing for any of it to really work in a satisfying way.
It took me a long time to realize, I was more in love with the idea behind the game, rather than the game itself.
I almost feel like the last of us part 2 fools you into thinking it’s better than it is, i’ve noticed that with a lot of the positive video essays on the last of us part two, they more so talk about philosophy and the games themes and ideas rather than how well the game actually pulled those things off. (ArrTorrs “The Unmistakable Humanity of The Last Of Us” is one that comes to mind)
I don’t believe these people are being disingenuous, but I feel like they’ve gotten so caught up in the games themes that they never really stopped to look at hell poorly the game actually executed its ideas. A lot of the positivity towards this game I feel it comes from people who are generally pretty open minded and empathetic. And they’re in printing their own ideas and morals back onto the game which helps them connect with it on a deeper level without realizing that they’re imprinting their own ideas and take aways from its narrative back onto the game itself, and somehow coming to the conclusion that their own thoughts and feelings on it are what the game intended. It’s sort of like a cycle of self indulgent confirmation bias.
I’m a pretty open minded person, and if a piece of art can make you feel something, if you can pull strong emotions out of you. Then that’s pretty cool, but on a fundamental and I would argue objective level, TLOU2 has a LOT of problems. So much of its narrative relies on contrivance and teleporting characters around to where they need to be for certain plot events to happen and none of it really feels organic or earned. I don’t hate TLOU2. At the end of the day, I really respect it for what is attempted but I really just don’t think Neil had the writing chops to really pull off the vision for what he had in mind, which is a shame because I really wanted it to work. I definitely think there’s something really special here but the potential just wasn’t reached.
This was absolutely beautifully worded
@@ineedwafflestabernacle Thank you, I appreciate that ^^
@@Sev3617 and I appreciate you
So I just play the last of us ps3 version and I am good to go never to touch part 2?
Yeah pretty much, the PS3 version still looks good too
46:29 dude puts Radio Espantoso from GTA VCS out of nowhere 😄
I can't give you anything to show it, but just know that I highly respect you for being the only person to catch that reference, and also the max payne profile pic
I love that radio station , and since I'm from Argentina its fun to know what the songs say
also I'm gonna check out your other videos your editing is hilarious
also thanks , I only wrote my name in the max payne pic 😂
I was gonna have a Baseball Fury profile pic from The Warriors
@@chris_player2995 it's cliche, but my favorite from VCS is Flash, it really just perfectly captures that games setting and atmosphere.
Thanks man, I appreciate you watching and sticking around.
Also I haven't played the warriors, but it's on my list of old rockstar games to go through along with manhunt
Part Two is the better one. More expansive, complex story, brave plot decisions, character psychology, moral themes... It's been years and I'm still in awe of this game.
Some of the scenes drag. So what?
The so what is that I didn't enjoy it, which I'm allowed to do and voice my opinions about why, while still acknowledging the good in the game. Which creates an actual conversation that welcomes both sides rather than "No this game is better than the first. So what if you didn't like it" unlike you. That's the so what
I'm not shitting on anyone else's opinion but sharing my own. The "so what?" was rhetorical.@@ineedwafflestabernacle
@@quayrice3729 try and share your opinion in a way that actually opens up a discussion next time
Only improvement is the gameplay. Which wasn't hard since the gameplay in 1 sucks.
So what??? He gave you an 1hour plus video worth of "so what", did you not watch it man? Did you? Do you want him to remaster this video and remake it into a sequel so it'll anwer your delimma proper?
sucks cause technically, the game is great. its fun to play, the combat and animations are so well handled but the story just makes zero sense. Joel somehow forgot he was living in the apocalypse for some reason and lost all his survival knowledge cause he lived in a tribal settlement for a few years. literally forced a narrative to get a specific outcome. Like, they came up with the scene of Joel being viciously killed FIRST, then wrote the rest of the story and thought "how can we get this legendary survivor to just walk in to a trap like a moron".. "OHHHH, we write the story now so we can just make him a moron".
yeah , combat is better than ever here
map design is great way more open the dodge was a nice addition
the story...
Another example of that is the final cutscene. They wanted Ellie to forgive Abby but couldn't come up with a legitimate reason for it because it confused people, so they added in a flashback with Joel to help explain why she did it. Except that means that Ellie knew about the porch flashback with Joel for the entire game and never once bothered to bring it up or come to terms with it until the ending just because it'd be a dramatic reveal for the player.
Nah, everything about this game is masterful, top 3 game of all time for me. story had questionable moments, but ultimately made sense and wasn’t pointless decisions
Oh yes that trans sex was as masterful as your hands during that moment 😐
It's subjective but you're speaking like objectively the story still made sense when it just didn't. The story structure and pacing is all over the place, characters are so inconsistent. The only theme that stays the same is how incredibly bleak and depressing everything is. It's not a character study though, these characters feel as flat as can be. Gameplay is fun and probably better than the first game but this is delusion on a whole other level
You're welcome to like it but to dismiss any criticism or opinions of the other side and say "Nah this game is masterful" misses the entire point of the video.
this has to be a joke right. Like there's no way you just unironically called a strictly heterosexual sex scene trans
@@WolfRazor everything is in the eye of the beholder obviously, but you can’t say i’m delusional that’s just blatantly wrong, i’m not the only person at all that thinks that this game is a masterpiece. the story is tough to follow along, but once you understand that the game is about the unfair and brutal nature of the world they’re in, everything makes sense
Joel died, abby lived = game bad
frrr
@@cherrysao. and i find it stupid how ellie lost dina and 2 of her fingers to kill abby and she spared her at the last second
And how ultimately Abby was able to have a happy ending compared to Ellie
@@ineedwafflestabernacle fr
@@ineedwafflestabernacle I feel that she kinda deserved it. Abby killing Joel didn't help her move past her trauma. If the game ended there, she wouldn't have her happy ending. But when she found Lev and Yara (⚠when she found something new to fight for⚠), and helped them, she was able to move past the trauma and be happy for once. Even after Ellie (and tommy) killed every single one of her friends, Abby let Ellie and Dina live, and she let it go. She ended up being much happier with Lev.
Ellie couldn't let that trauma from Joel go (which I do not blame her for). She ended up losing everything and everyone. She let it go at the very end by not killing Abby. I do think she deserved maybe a happier ending for that.
But when you realize that Ellie left for Santa Barbara without Dina's bracelet, but came back to the farm with it, meaning she must have met up with Dina before coming back to the farm, her ending doesn't seem so bleak.
halfway through the video man and its so great im a new sub but one question dont ALL naughty dog games do this? 35:20 id like to hear ur thoughts :)
I explain it in the video, but yes they do, and by this game it's become repetitive and that along with how long it takes to get to the place in question, it makes the game feel extremely tedious. Especially since Ellie's entire section in Seattle is spent following leads on Abby that go nowhere
Holy W. This entire video was on point.
thanks man, I appreciate you watching
If I had a dime for every triple A game I've played that takes place in the summer where Troy Baker is a cynical untrusting old man that lost his daughter who gets the responsibility of transporting a young girl with a special ability who he ends up breaking down his cold exterior for and bonding throughout the events of the game released in 2013
I watched this because I've never played the game, now I'm glad I didn't. It's just some agenda pushing bullshit...
@@heisenberg1898 what agenda could there possibly be
@@ineedwafflestabernacle ok I guess I'll feed it. Come in my neighborhood looking like Abby and see what happens..
@@heisenberg1898 bro what is that even supposed to mean 💀
This is just about the most perfectly summed up essay ofthis disasterpiece of a game I've seen to date. Only the second installment in and they nailed it to a cross. DOA. What a terrible way to destroy this would be masterpiece of a franchise. If Joel had died in a poetic and relevant way by the third installment, no one would have had a problem with it. They would have lamented him as a beloved hero they grew up with and accepted his death as a book end to a trilogy. But no. We got the CW instead.
Abby was just simply jealous of Joel's reservation at Dorsia
Couldn’t disagree more. I think it’s a beautiful, moving story about what it means to be human. There’s so much more to it than just being about the cycle of violence.
Okay
I heard mixed reviews about this game I played the first one back in 2013 still have some fond memories of it… eventually I’ll get to this game & review it myself
That's what I'd recommend, I didn't like it but I'd still recommend someone who hasn't played it to play it for themselves to form their own opinion on it
Aww still crying about joel 😢
fr
aww still deflecting any actual criticisms by making up your own conclusions to get mad about 😢
@@ineedwafflestabernacle yeah man i am so mad rrrrr
you joke yet you went out of your way to watch and comment on this video, clearly you were upset enough to do that
@@ineedwafflestabernacle spoiler i did not watch the video man you’re getting intense over a random comment relax bro it’s ok sorry for commenting damn
Awesome video, the game is really dumb but still like it cus of Ellie. All your points are valid and finally someone who can discuss the game without wanting to kill the other person. Also the graph at 1:02:37 when Joel dies should be maxed, tension is trough the roof but then we just tp to Seattle outta nowhere
The issue isn't simply with anyone who likes the game, the issue is with people who like this game AND insult anyone who doesn't, that's the main difference. Also dude seriously, I know I said it a lot in the video but that graph is such a good visual representation of why this game fell flat for me. I felt so seen the first time I saw it. I highly recommend you go watch The Closer Look's video on this game, that shit was my Bible back in 2020 lmao
For sure, will go take a look at it thanks. Also just watched your video on skyrim and oblivion, fucking amazing. Keep up the stellar content man @@ineedwafflestabernacle
49:23 I see this and it reminds me of the jeep ride from MGS V
Did yall expect the story game to change from remastered or sum??💀
No it was just a good opportunity to talk about the game while it's new in everyone's mind again, I said exactly that in the first minute. Which you'd know if you actually watched the video instead of blind commenting
the gameplay is so good in this game but honestly the writing, characters and pacing are terrible
There should be a mode called no story mode, where you just play and enjoy the combat from beginning to end. And, no, I will not be paying any sum of cash for the "DLC" that just came out. Unless if it is on the Ps4. Cause, I aint buying a ps5 fo that.
that mode could have easily been in the game from day one , or being a bonus like the Mercenaries mode in RE! it took them 4 years and a new console for a shitty cod zomboes / mercenaries ripoff
go to encounters, u can play through them, complete them, then either replay the encounter or go to the next one.
@@dingo5797 ok, thank you!
@@chris_player2995 true words!
@@dingo5797One of my favorite parts of the game. I only used it a few times because I needed the 100GB of storage on my PS4, but it was still lots of fun
recorded through a ipod mini
you know it
How this amazing video get so little views??
we live in a society
It’s fairly flawed in a few areas in terms of plot armor and contrivance certainly, but I can’t call the whole game complete trash. It’s really only a few aspects of the prologue, Ellie Day 3, and Ellie’s epilogue/Rattlers up to the beach that I had issues with. Abby’s section was actually the least flawed to me, 1-2 moments of plot armor, a few moments of something being too blatant, and 1 decently missed opportunity and that’s it really. I do have issues pertaining to the structure though, as you kind of have to go through the game piecing together Joel’s softening that led him to his death alongside aspects of him from the first game. Also yes, I don’t like how the halfway point of the game absolutely destroys a lot of tense and suspense that has to be built up again too. That’s just story of course. I still believe that there’s something more to this game than what it seems to be on the surface. I will admit though that Ellie’s travels near the end of this game are definitely insane.
The only big issues I have with the prologue was the connivance of the horde pushing all the characters in the right direction and Joel leaving his supplies on a horse right after getting away from an infected horde. I’m a bit hyped by the fact that ‘Grounded II’ and the cutscene commentary might actually touch on these things and give me more insight. To defend Abby Day 3 though Ellie definitely took a Seattle vehicle and her and Dina collaborated while driving on the main roads the WLF used while everyone else was still the island. Ellie being able to make the journey to SB herself with all the issues she has…yeah it’s fairly hard to suspend disbelief there. Even worse when it comes to the journey back in her weakened state. I don’t have serious issues with the first journey or the journey to Salt Lake City either. It’s apparently 6-8 hours on horseback and Joel came in the morning by the way so he was definitely a few hours behind at least.
I think Bruce was mainly criticizing the motivation. Joel got her brother killed so indirectly that it’s ridiculous that Tess would just do a 180 on Joel like that and hunt him down for around a year. It was also bad for the plot too, because Tess and her group literally pop up out of nowhere near the end of the game, ambush Joel, and then a sort of uno card thing was done where you thought Joel died but then it turns out that it was actually Ellie going back for him and shooting Tess. I feel like the whole idea was done much better in this game, there was a lot more driving Abby and of course Mel was Jerry’s top student, and Salt Lake Crew were like family to each other for a long time as well.
Hey man! I'm currently a nobody with no proper videos (or even a profile pic lol) so this might sound like bullshit, but I'm making a huge YMS styled review of this game and I'd like to send you some parts of my script to get some feedback and just discuss it further, since you seem just as obsessed with this game as I am lmao
I have cooked up a weird conspiracy theory that this game wasn't originally meant to be set in the same universe as The Last of Us and I need someone to tell me I'm not crazy
I'm gonna send my discord tag in the replies since TH-cam seems to have flagged my other comment
Yeah sure man drop your discord
@@ineedwafflestabernacle slayerhook
The game sucked then and it sucks now, simple
Facts
The whole game was just dark and depressing the entire time
I wouldn't say the entire time, but it's still definitely missing that underlying joy the first game had that made it so special
Great Video
Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed
Lol if people love 2 im happy for them. Naughty Dog was my favorite studio but the way they sh#t on some of my favorite characters ever had me drop them and just thank god that Neil f#@$man didnt get to touch and ruin Uncharted. The game looks beautiful and it plays great. But that story and character assassination, especially for joel... Nah. I have never been more disappointed in a game i was so hype for in my life. Again, if you love it please love the hell out of it but i men in black memory wiped my mind after this game, sold my last of 2 collectors edition for close to nothing just so I didnt have to look at it anymore lol
My thoughts exactly (although Neil did work on Uncharted 4, there's a whole controversy about it) like the game was so much fun and I'd love nothing more than to say I enjoyed it, but once I found myself playing certain sections just to get them over with rather than out of actual enjoyment, that's when I had to accept that the game wasn't for me
Also it's funny because I literally did the exact same thing, I returned my copy because I knew I was never gonna play it again and so I wouldn't have to see it sit next to all the games I own that I actually do like lmao
@@ineedwafflestabernacle that's what I'm saying. That's the only game I ever got rid of the first week. The writing was just the savage murderer of the game for me. Maybe I was too attached to the characters from part 1. Idk but when I see anything with Neil attached to it now I can't even give it a second of time. That's why I didn't watch tlou show, even though everyone says it slaps. Then when I was about to, they announced season 2 will tell the story of the second game. In the immortal words of that little girl from that meme "no thanks" lol. Good vid, I watched it all the way through
@@marcusbgaming350me personally I didn't watch the show because I've played the first game so much that I know the whole story top to bottom so I didn't really see a point in watching it. But yeah, even if I won't watch it I'm genuinely curious to see how they handle season 2 since there's a lot of people who only know the story from the show, so it'd be interesting to see if all the controversy surrounding 2 happens again in real time
@@ineedwafflestabernacle damn good point... That will be interesting to see. I wonder if they're gonna stand on business or switch things up at all...
As soon as you hear the word "biggot" in a piece of entertainment ... you know it will probably be shieeet.
I wouldn't go that far but it definitely felt awkward and stilted for Ellie to say it
This video was pure cinema
that's oddly flattering to hear, thank you
Neil Druckmann is so entirety vile.
"We can't see The Last of Us without Joel and Ellie" lookin ass
Nah, man I hate his politics and that TLOU2 was some bizzare Zionist piece. It pollutes the entire title. Love you rocking the GIR avi man.@@ineedwafflestabernacle
actual goated video
A hate purchase is still a purchase
I bought it because I was interested in the game, was curious to see why it was so controversial, and because I loved the first game and wanted to see what they did. Do you really think I'm so miserable that I'd go out and spend $60 on something I know I'm not going to enjoy?
Imagine making a 1 hour and 22 minute video about being wrong lmfao
Imagine dismissing any opinion that isn't yours as wrong like a stubborn child instead of attempting to have an open discussion, oh wait you don't need to 😯
This game has some of the best shooting mechanics, best graphics, best acting, best story telling, smartest A.I., best environments in gaming history. Yea let me have an open discussion with a troll who spent days on a troll video 🤔
@@Vincetagrammm alright man, if it's easier for you to blindly say that I'm wrong and refuse to have any sort of discussion because I'm just a "troll" then you do you, maybe one day you'll realize not everyone who disagrees with you is immediately wrong. By the way I checked out your channel and your shorts are really funny, especially the parody one on making money fast, it's a shame you aren't actually as chill as you seem in your videos
@@ineedwafflestabernaclelike and subscribe 👍
Nah I'm good
Tlou2 is a masterpiece. Get a brain and you will enjoy it.
Get a brain and you'll understand not everyone needs to agree with you
I’m with you on this
Why are you trying to act smug when you just said I don't have a brain for not liking this game. You aren't the winner here, having a brain means being reasonable enough to dislike something and still being open to the other side, not immediately insulting someone who doesn't agree with you instead of acknowledging any of their criticisms
Why couldnt yoy find a career that had a sense of purpose instead of trying to rage bait grift?
If I wanted to rage bait grift I'd go the easy route and spew out the same bs about how the game is woke trash just because it has black people in it and how it's zionist propaganda, but instead I presented valid criticisms with it and acknowledged people are more than welcome to like this game and if you can't see that then that sounds like you a problem :)
The story was woke trash, but the gameplay and environments were amazing
Woke is such a nothing word bro. I don’t care if you dislike the game but having gay characters and female leads is not a valid reason to dislike it
You're literally the exact kind of person I make fun of in the video lmao
@@mpire5074 this man gets it
Thanks for the high pitched deafening noise right at the beginning, I knew to stop watching your video right then and there.👎
Good, I vastly prefer people who actually have a sense of humor watched my videos
@@ineedwafflestabernacleit’s not about not having a sense of humor, I’m telling you that you made your video physically painful to listen to.
Yes and I'm telling you that I don't care because it was used a joke. There really isn't much to discuss here
Simple don't play it then for 10£ I have no complaints I respect people's opinions but I wouldn't make a video about it 😂then again TH-cam in it.
If you respected people's opinions you would've actually watched the video before commenting on it. Also they're still attempting to charge $50 for the remaster, everyone keeps focusing on the $10 upgrade for previous owners that they've seemingly ignored that it's nearly full price again for anyone who hasn't played it
@@ineedwafflestabernacle And it 10 dollars if you bought the game digitally. If you bought the game physically, you're basically shit out of luck.
@@locomoco617 no it's for physical copies too, you just need to have a PS5 which can read disks because there's the dumbass digital only version of it
@@ineedwafflestabernacle Oh I see, then I take back my original comment, clearly took some misinfo from another content creator. So that one's on me! but yeah as you said, I suppose if you own a digital only version PS5, then yeah your are out of luck, which is quite scummy.
Either way great video dude, keep up the good work!
@@locomoco617 no worries, it is pretty confusing to understand. And also thanks man, I'm glad you enjoyed the video
These videos just keep being ridiculous. Hate hate hate. This game was a masterpiece don’t like it ? Don’t buy it why waste your time to hate. This story was fantastic I can’t see even with all reasons that’s been given with all hate how people want to build hateful novels about it.
This comment is very silly
These comments just keep being ridiculous. This video was a masterpiece don't like it ? Don't watch it why waste your time to hate. This video was fantastic I can't see even with all reasons that's been given with all hate how people want to build hateful novels about it 😭😭😭😭😞😭😭
@@ineedwafflestabernacle lmao I didn’t watch it I watched 2 minutes and I can bet you did this video before when the game came out you realized you didn’t like it. What’s silly is making another average hate video about something just to rake more views in. Dropped the day of the remaster release to pull the in the people who hated the game. Look you do you I ain’t saying people shouldn’t get to make these videos there just ridiculous at this point
@@dreamalitymangacreator5891 You watched 2 minutes of a 1 hour and 20 minute video and immediately concluded it's an average hate video. How are you even attempting to have an argument here
I didn’t even watch the video tbh, just came here to say you’re a hater and to appreciate the game for the masterpiece it is
If you have to convince someone a game is a masterpiece then it isn't a masterpiece. You're literally the worst kind of fan for this game, just let people have their own opinion. I don't care if you liked it but when you come here and take the time to write a stupid ass comment like this without even listening to any criticism it just goes to show how ignorant and blind you are. Not everyone needs to agree with you
So you didn’t even watch the video & just concluded to hate? Some of his takes could actually be good constructive criticism…
@@ineedwafflestabernacle i dont have to convince ppl its good😂 you made a hour vid saying its bad bro. The whole world thinks its good already
They really don't lil bro 💀 you must be smokin that top shelf boof if you think everyone agrees on this game
@@ineedwafflestabernacle dude the game sold millions and is highly reviewed and majority praised. Its a good game. Its ppl like u finding the negative in everything good and want to be different and cool so bad. Its not COD or madden just enjoy the damn game its clearly good u cant name 10 better console games ever created than TLOU
your opinion is wrong
nuh uh
where are your street fighter 4 videos I'm still waiting for them 😭
You have the platform, go ahead and elaborate on why you think I'm wrong. We're all waiting.
cry more
you can't even solo Malenia
i can solo you in a PVP without a problem, mate hahahah @@ineedwafflestabernacle
@@nathanmanoel6708 sure you can