That movie is a timeless masterpiece and always will be. Aged like a fine wine. Saw it when it first came out in theaters and still have vivid memories of it. I've been thinking for a while now that it eclipses even TDK as an overall movie. It just has so much soul and energy. The reason Iron Man 1 is as great as it is is because Marvel knew if that movie failed, their cinematic universe would be done for so they went all in and succeeded.
What hurts the most about the Wanda and thor loss parallels is that Wanda's was taken seriously, thor's was played as a joke, the man lost everything, and it was played for laughs.
Let's be honest. Nobody cares when men are suffering because that's what men do, endure through suffering. Look at what they did in She-Hulk, Bruce lost everything and was hunted down most of his life with nobody but a raging monster for companionship, but apparently dealing with that is the equivalent of women dealing with catcalling
@Ascended that scene alone cemented for me how difficult it was going to be to like her as a main character and take her seriously. Bruce has been through 1000 fold what she has.
It personally bothers me so much what they did to Thor. He was an amazing character that they could have done so much with but turned him into an incompetent joke. Thor has suffered so, so much. He’s lost literally everything aside from his own life and a few close friends. And they turn his misery into a punch line yet at the same time want us to feel sorry for Wanda over the exact same thing. Why is Thor losing everything funny but for Wanda it’s sad? The whole issue reeks of double standards. They need to fire Watiti and get someone else to start writing and directing because he is just not it. These movies have lost the heart and soul that made them so good. Now they’re done for as you said, cheap jokes and cameos.
We should mainly blame taika waititi for love and thunder. He saw how well ragnarok did with its good humour and jokes so he just took it over the top with L&T and it didn’t work.
Thor's "jokes" in Infinity War were perfect imo due to it not just being "haha funny" but they actually serve a purpose for Thor's tragic characterization. Love an Thunder on the other hand is just jokes for joke sake and its perhaps a perfect case for character assasination.
I don’t get it. Ragnorok was almost as bad. It was like they had a list of one liners and just wrote a script around that. They saw the humor was a hit so they upped it; a very common thing with Hollywood. If you all care so much about balanced storytelling, you should’ve shot back BEFORE we got to this point.
The "everything is connected" idea sounds good when it first implemented, but no longer cool when that "everything" is 20+ films and 10+ series. Imagine someone who wants to join the MCU party now, would they really want to spend 90+ hours just to understand what's happenning in one movie?
sounds pretty daunting. watching 23 movies for end game to make sense was fun since the movies were good overall, but now you got a bunch of movies and shows to keep track of.
As someone who was once an mcu fan, i don't have time to catch up with whats happening anymore, they're dumping too much films and series in just a year and it feels too oversaturated and too tiring to watch now Needless to say i don't know the current story anymore lol
This is a bad formula for longevity. Older fans will fall off and new fans won’t come in to replace them. I can’t imagine these movies being like Star Wars or the Harry Potter movies because 20+ years from now, no one is going to sit down and watch all of these movies, even just getting Endgame is a slog.
With Endgame I think I experienced every single emotion a person could experience. I was so emotionally drained by the end of the movie. That’s the kind of feeling those movies provoked. Now the MCU just makes me constantly roll my eyes every two minutes
If they would’ve of taken a break after end game. Then come back years later not rushing making movies. I think we could’ve seen so much better material.
Literally was talking about this with my wife last night. As a comic book/ manga guy I always wanted a fleshed out experience. When the MCU first started it was just a good time in general. The conversations my friends and I would have about the movies months, even years after release were even fun to have. But her and I both agreed that these new ones are just for fun. Which isn’t bad; but, it’s disappointing.
I can’t believe we’ve reached a point where I’m more excited for the next DCEU movie than the next MCU movie. I still have some slivers of hope (like with Guardians 3 and Spider-Man 4), but this phase feels so disjointed and has become a perfect example of “quantity over quality.”
What genuinely boils my blood is the sheer insensitivity of Taika Waititi towards the fans. He think that everyone who criticizes his work is a troll. People criticize something when they love it and him saying that he will ruin Thor further angers me beyond measure. I read that Kenneth Branagh was supposed to do Thor Ragnarok and I will cry everyday knowing we will never get to see his version of Ragnarok. If make a Thor 5, they should bring back Kenneth Branagh or someone who actually respects the characters, stories and the feelings of the fans.
Yep! I mean Ragnarok is still better and enjoyable than love and thunder. But when you know how the actual event of Ragnarok, it's just disappointing. That's where i know what kind of Director is Taika and how i lose hope once they announce he gonna be the director of love and thunder (Actually i already kinda lose hope when they announce the movie title)
@Lorenzo Smit JJ wasn't great, but to be fair, he got cucked. Had he at least received some level of control to plan out the trilogy, the final product would've been, at the very least, cohesive and consistent, if not OG trilogy/Clone Wars-level of quality. Then the sequels wouldn't have convinced people that the prequels were somehow masterpieces.
The MCU was built in a three-act story structure. Phase 1 was the first act, The Avengers being the inciting incident. Phases 2 and most of 3 were the second act, with Captain America: Civil War being the major turning point in the middle of everything. Infinity War and Endgame were the third act, the big climax (in this case, there were two climaxes). It ended. The story concluded. The fact that it has kept going makes it less of a story and more of a timeline. And yes, Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes is awesome!
why do you want it to end? the story continues after endgame in the comics (i know the comic wasn't called endgame) so why shouldn't it continue in Movie form?
@@LaneWinn you're probably one of those people who thinks Marvel ruined the hulk lol also you literally said "The fact that it has kept going makes it less of a story and more of a timeline" by you saying that implies you don't like Marvel making more movies and you wanted it to stop after endgame
@@EzraH214 Endgame tied up itself as the end. It left more room for Thor yet failed miserably at continuing it in LaT, along with a few of the characters, but it’s the end of a story. Not the end of a chapter, but a story. If you want to do more with your world, which I’m all for, you start new instead of relying on people already knowing the story before. At least that’s my take on it.
@@LaneWinn I mean its obvious they are setting up for secret wars but goddamn they did Gor dirty he was basically Thanos on steroids but without the drawback of needing the infinity stone and look what they did to him
It REALLY bothers me how people know about thanos in the MCU. I get antman wrote a book and that’s how but it just feels weird seeing his name thrown around. Making an icecream cone shop based off someone who commuted genocide
@@therealslimshady6763the nazi swastika (hakenkreuz) is different from Hindu and Buddhist symbols despite looking similar. The angling is what matters there. Also it's often called a swastika anyway because the first translations of Hitler's mein kampf often referred to it as such instead of it as the hakenkreuz.
Marvel has fallen off so incredibly hard. The fact that introducing the multiverse creates a need for quantity in the MCU to one up Avengers Endgame, but they're going in the completely wrong direction for the franchise.
They just want to release everything so damn quickly and stick to their strict schedule. I think they should take time to make their movies and series and stop with the over comedy stuff. If it means secret wars has to be delayed to 2030 or something then so be it
I've actually been complaining about this since Ragnarok. I went in expecting a mostly serious movie and wasn't ready for it to be just a string of one-liners. I feel like Marvel realized how much people liked the witty style of Guardians of the Galaxy (which was perfectly fitting for THAT movie) and decided to apply that to all their future movies. But they've leaned into that so far that they've sacrificed the story just to get a few chuckles.
I really disliked Ragnarok, but I especially disliked it for being the last movie before Infinity War. Thanos' ship arriving after Asgard got desecrated should have been a huge moment with a lot of weight giving off "oh shit" energy. But after 2 hours jokes and nonsense, those two moments held little to no weight for me. Why should I take the ending seriously when the rest of the film didn't take itself seriously?
Even before Phase 4, I actually agreed with Martin Scorsese regarding his definition of cinema, and that movies like most of the MCU were like theme park rides. It's just that most of the MCU at the time were solid, consistent, and fun movies, something that the majority of Phase 4 is not. And while fans didn't want it to happen, many of us predicted this was going to happen after Endgame just by the fact that it was 11 years of building up to the Infinity Gauntlet story. The real warning sign for me was Captain Marvel shoehorned near the end of Phase 3. The movie hurt Nick Fury, and was just there. When Captain Marvel showed up in Endgame, she did little to nothing except appear too late in the beginning and deflate the end a fair bit when she psycho crushered Thanos' ship. Apply that thought to all of Phase 4 with additional issues like everything is a world ending dooms day, or too many movies/shows to follow, and no wonder the MCU is now a mess. I loved the first 3 phases of the MCU, but I already learned not to watch everything MCU starting with Agents of SHIELD. As far as I'm concerned, the MCU ended with Endgame, and while I loved Spiderman No Way Home, I find all of Phase 4 to be skippable.
yeah I agree too with Martin Scorsese, for the reason that MCU generally is no longer director's vision, but more like company's vision, in this case Disney. director no longer have the creative responsibility to make the movie in their style. they have to submit to Feige, who also has to submit to, probably, board member of Disney with their own political view and interest.
I still don't agree with Scorsese. He just thinks popular movies can't be art, when they can be. He's just like the Oscars, producing niche movies nobody watches, and calling it art simply because it's niche. Blockbusters can be art, and niche movies can be dogsh*t, nothing can be summed up with a blank statement, everything (and everyone) has to be judged individually.
@@mattevans4377 I don't think it's quite like that. While I definitely think he sees NO superhero movies as being, by his POV, cinematic (meaning even Joker to him doesn't count), I do think that it's more because superhero movies and the like were being pushed more than the movies he was brought up watching. Not everyone is into any genre, so it can be hard to go to the movies when most of the time theaters are being saturated with blockbuster wannabes. For the most part, companies go where the money goes.
@@AegisKHAOS Still doesn't give him the right to give blanket statements on things. Especially not with his supposed caliber. If you think you know best, prove it, with well defined analysis, not blank statements.
He has always been a goofball, but how hes just a joke plot device Being funny isnt just a part of his personality before, now being funny is all he is
For real, same with Hulk. Both characters used to be serious and intimidating (Most of the time) but in the new movies they just completely ruined them. Thor has lost literally everything, and he still cracks cheap jokes and laughs all of it off. Hulk used to actually be a scary monster but they've turned him into some stupid joke.
One thing I don’t like is that (at least how I’m seeing it) they’ve turned pretty much every character quipping machines, characters like Iron Man and Star Lord felt alright because they’re meant to be lovable douchebags but now everyone seems to do it.
Unfortunately Thor ragnarok got too much attention for how bad it was in hindsight so now Disney is trying to replicate that “funny formula” for the movies or characters they don’t care about.
@@Green_Eyed_Monster I feel like that was supposed to be his arc, like after his major fuck-up against Thanos, he was supposed to be humbled and start becoming a better person. Unfortunately, the route Marvel has decided to go... we're not gonna see that.
@@JakCT- he is a good director, but his style of directing is different compared to how Comic Book movies are supposed to be, the feeling of watching Love and Thunder was like it was a comedic parody
Well he is 1 for 2. While that doesn't mean I disagree with you, I do want to give him credit for Thor 3. In my opinion Thor 3 was one of the best MCU movies to date!
It’s sad because WandaVision could have set up a new villain: Mephisto. With Multiverse and Blade, Mephisto could have been a mover and shaker, constantly making deals with both the minor villains and heroes so they’d end up being his. In the end, Dark Avengers would have been his puppets. Or, actually make the Skrull a threat. Something I hate about Captain Marvel, besides everything, was how they made the Skrull - you know, the species that conquer worlds by assimilating - the victims. Which they’re not.
The first mistake Disney made was making TV shows and tying them into the movies, making it so fans had to watch the TV shows (And let's be frank, buy Disney+) to understand the movies. That made everything disjointed and led to this downfall.
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Mephisto has no connections to Wanda lol he wouldn’t make any sense
I just discussed this with my friend the other day and he and I agreed on one term that is Disney just making everything they touched rotten. Instead of focus on making really great movies and connect them together now they spending on expanding this franchise as much as possible and push everything they want into EVERY one of them.
You know something isn't right when Oscar winning actors Natalie Portman and Christian Bale can't save a movie from being terrible. Cancer is a joke, loss is a joke, death is a joke. As a wise captain used to say: "The world is still the same, it's just less in it."
Disney really did ruin it. They lowered production quality for Marvel and Star Wars. They have a standard to cater more towards KIDS and less for adults which ruins deep story-telling. Kevin Feige once said that Multiverse of Madness was supposed to be a horror film. But since it’s catered towards children, they bumped the horror factor way down and went with a more quirky, tacky type of horror (no offense to Sam Raimi, but I think his direction for the movie would’ve been better if Disney didn’t prevent them from making the movie “kid-friendly”) They also RUINED KINGDOM HEARTS 3! okay I’m done
@@gusp6612 Disney didn't start distributing MCU movies until 2012 though and they've been meddling a lot more recently and the quality of these films show it.
@@23bitchris60 and what comes after 2012 has been really good. No way home wouldn’t ever happen without Disney’s big name, influence and budget. It’s all about the people that works on the project. Sam Raimi is just a fraud, and Taika just love comedy a bit too much. The people put in charge of phase 4 is a mixed bag, and that’s on Kevin Feigi, not Disney. He choose to pump out this many projects. Pixar and Star Wars doesn’t make this many projects.
Oh I would kill for a Dr Strange horror movie. I’m also a sucker (pun intended) for Eldritch stuff, so when some leaks made it look like the main villain was a monster in that genre, I was excited. But nope it served basically no purpose
Everyone says that the MCU is becoming more like the comics, like how it's branching into different styles, or having loose continuity between events. But I'd argue that these things don't automatically make the MCU good. There's a lot of baggage with the comic book format. Some content becomes so developed on its own, that it requires homework to follow. The expansive character rosters make certain events, power hierarchies, and character decisions difficult to justify. And sooner or later, the universe becomes so expansive and complex that it collapses under its own weight and a reboot becomes inevitable. Is this really the kind of stuff we want to see happen to the MCU?
That's probably why Spiderman despite every big trend in the comics has still been the top dog of MARVEL. The Avengers is a team of heroes with so many different expansive adventures that it's impossible to keep track of them all, the X-Men is even worse as it splits off into multiple different teams with no definitive cast, and most of the other characters get thrown into their own little world. But not Peter Parker. Despite his long-running mythos, Peter still manages to maintain the heart of a superhero story and ties all the others together.
Funny they say that when they actively destroy the characters that made those stories good. It's like they were thinking they can take all the aspects of comics that look cool or can be seen as profitable and left out all the parts like having a good story and good characters.
I love the final point of your video: There's too much going on and it's not actually connected anymore. Too many multiversal gimmicks and god-level characters and world-endangering events but once the movie/show is done you don't feel any of the ripples throughout the Marvel universe.
I feel like if they wanted to make a joke out of Thor’s mental health and loss they could’ve used it as a platform to have him relate to many people who have their mental health and trauma jokes about. And while I think that was the message that was intended by the movie, they just didn’t act on it and chose cheap “humor” and “action” to make up for it. When Quill said that it’s better to feel pain than to feel nothing it felt like that should’ve been a line that was called back to at a turning point in the story but it was only called back to for the fan service of seeing Thor and Jane get back together. Overall the potential for Thor 4 was so high and yet they disappointed me so much
The fact that they actually manage to make Starlord sounds more mature than Thor in that scene really says a lot that they prefer more jokes than logical character arc...
I rewatched the old marvel movies, more mature and less jokes. the characters were much more animated and accurate like in the comics. But thor 4 was an effing disappointment, especially Gorr is a great villain and played by one of the greatest actor. Taika had to make a parody out of it.
I don't feel like they make a joke out of Thor's mental health, I'm actually pretty sure that's the one thing they don't joke about. You have Thor, deep in depression, acting out and being goofy just to feel alive. Jane, confronted to her own imminent death, joking basically for the same reason. And Thor, having lost almost everything and losing the last thing that matters, earning the win not through force, not powering through pain, hiding it, setting it aside, or fueling an angry vengeance like in every action movie, but actually admitting it, sharing it, and using his experience of grief as a force for good to reach out to his opponent on a spiritual level instead of through his fists or special effects. As a person who's lived with depression for 20 years and lost two children two years ago, I did relate to that.
I feel like when the MCU was great, the DCEU was lacking and just pumping out movies for the sake of pumping out movies (except for exceptions like Wonder Woman). But now that the MCU is in Phase 4 and declaring all these projects for Phase 5, the DCEU has recently been picking up their quality and focusing on taking it slow. The Joker and the Batman were some of the best cinematic works I've seen recently, and I hope they're working to keep that work up.
@@senseishu937 the first WW was good, 2nd one was trash I'm not gonna even deny. But either way, all the movies including Joker and the Batman were made by Warner Bros, just like how all the Marvel movies were made by Disney
These silly Marvel thingy are great examples of what would happen to a production house that forced everything to be aligned to LGBTQ, leftist, feminism and stuff like that. No hate, but it is what it is. Just a perspective. Say what you want, people.
For me personally, the issue I have with phase 4 is that their movies are mediocre at best. While it is building towards one of marvel’s greatest events (Secret Wars), it is doing a lazy job at introducing the ideas and connecting them. For those who don’t know. Secret Wars has A LOT of marvel characters (hero’s and villains). Introducing these characters, giving them enough screen time and a proper backstory, is a big challenge they have to overcome.
@@Hgh38 Loki introduced that 1st and it had 10 episodes. MoM was the 1st MCU movie to use it, and quantumania will probably use it a lot more. Kang doesnt seem like he'll be too exciting of a villain though tbh
The problem with these movies is that they have brilliant concepts like multiverse or madness but just don’t turn them into actually good fleshed out movies that are the best they can be, it’s like they chose their first idea and stuck with it.
This was a high-quality video essay.. hit the nail right on the head. This was the first year that I told myself "I'm done watching all of Marvel's movies and Tv shows". Their movies used to be an event, but the magic and excitement are completely gone now. The foreshadowing in Loki is the only aspect that still intrigues me. Also, love your reference to Earth's mightiest heroes, that was an amazing show.
I feel the same way, I finally skipped a Marvel movie with Eternals and still don’t plan on seeing it. I wasn’t going to see a movie I thought looked liked crap with characters I’m.m not interested in just because it had the Marvel logo on it. I did the same for Ms Marvel and will do the same for She-Hulk and the Marvels.
I agree with your point with Wanda, she went from one of my favorites, hell she was my favorite, but then the MOM shit happened. I think it'd be good for her to have a villain arc especially a house of m type of arc but the way her arc happened was so abrupt. Almost forced imo. They should've had Wanda help Steven and Miss America first then slowly, the more she finds about Miss America's powers, the more she has second thoughts. She can travel between universes, which meant if she asked America, she would see her sons again at least just once. THEN, that's when The Darkhold's effects starts showing. Her once innocent thoughts of seeing her sons again go dark as her want for her family back grows much more selfish, more dark you can say. all the rationality in her thoughts slowly goes away as the darkhold starts corrupting her, that she'll never have her children UNLESS she takes America's powers. That's what should've been Wanda's arc in Multiverse Of Madness in my opinion.
They should've stuck to the original plan for this movie and have her turn to darkness foreshadowed at the end for a future movie but Michael Waldron stepped in and ruined it
Thats how reality works. Cheer up though, when this happens, people who actually do know what theyre doing actually have an incentive to compete against Marvel and make that sweet sweet money. We still have the DCEU and still some hope that they can make a great movie. Or maybe another form of competition.
@@heavy5013 I wouldnt take it that personally. Ill be waiting for if DC or Marvel finally gets their shit together for at least a decent movie. If not, I got The Boys and Invincible.
I've watched quite a few video essays about phase four, but this one is the best one I've come across. It's not snarky or insulting, it's just quietly analytical, fair, and thoughtful. I really appreciated this video, thank you!!:)
Regarding the MCU being too big, it seems that it's falling down the same path Star Wars has. Undisciplined and lacking a unified vision. Hence the multiple writers and contradictory elements that the audience are forced to accept as existing in the same universe. Any attempt to intervene and resolve the contradictions involves pumping the brakes on this mad ride, something that Disney doesn't want as it will involve loss of money.
When the avengers or characters had actual convos that felt “human” I guess it the word, that’s what I liked about the MCU. How good the acting, role, and story was for each movie. Phase 4 is clearly the worst phase out of all so far. I really hope Disney acknowledges & listens to us by letting Marvel work on their movies like before.
Probably not, these cheap thrill rides are very successful as with Thor love and thunder if it makes them the most money that’s what Disney cares about,it’s a sad truth but it is the truth
@@Deathmare235 what? That goes entirely against the creator we’re commenting ons argument, it was meant to set the ground work and tell a dramatic story of retribution so what the budget wasn’t stupid amounts of money and there wasn’t much humor, it was meant to be dramatic not some comedy show
This. Years ago I dreamed for the day that we would have tv shows and movies referencing each other and giving cameos to the other, so it would truly feel like the comics huge universe. Now I see why that was a mistake. It's just too much to adapt and they want to put as much of it to screen as they can before the cow dies.
One thing that really rubbed me the wrong way was the whole 'Infinity Conez' thing, because it would only be remotely funny from the audience's perspective. Like, for the population of Earth, the gauntlet represents a very recent tragedy that occurred. It messed up the world something fierce and was traumatizing for many. It would be like opening a shop after WW2 in Hiroshima called 'The Bomb' with the fat man nuclear bomb used as artwork on the front of the restaurant. Contrast this with No Way Home. In this, they didn't have Tobey and Andrew's spidermen making jokes every 5 minutes about their timelines, they were just people, that's all. Andrew's Peter felt more saddened with his MJ's death and sort of seems like he envy's Tom's Peter for his MJ being alive. It gave us a sense of depth to them, like they weren't just carbon copies, and instead were real people that went through real trauma. While there are jokes cracked from time to time, they don't occur in emotional moments, or make fun of things that are meant to be serious events in the story.
And Spider man would be the character to crack jokes more often than the rest, which is why the other MCU characters all being comedians broke it for me.
Stuff like that is amazing. When Andrew couldn’t save mj as a kid it legit traumatized me cause I was so young so seeing him save Toby’s mj in theater was the best moment I’ve ever seen in a movie.
Very good point. You can feel when a movie is noy respecting the characters or the audience, and those kind of jokes are really saying "hey you know that whole emotional and powerful thing you felt for those characters ? Let me turn it into a JOKE. It's heartbreaking. PS : Andrew's Peter haven't met his MJ yet, the woman he loved and lost was Gwen Stacy.
Well the Infinity Stones were also what brought everybody back, so there’s a chance that some people are choosing to focus on that and celebrate the Avengers’ victory, and the fact that everyone is alive again. But I’m sure that there are many people in-universe who agree with your statement and avoid anything related to the Stones.
just watched Love and Thunder!dang it was a let down!a new director should take over at least 2 movies, to bring back the doom and gloom feel, and not so many cameos please!
In my opinion, the MCU has definitely improved and even though, some of the movies and shows weren't that good, I never HATED them. I genuinely enjoyed watching phase 4. And even though, it didn't have movies like Endgame or Thor Ragnarok, I still enjoyed watching it very much. And even if the MCU has become bad, it'll only stay like this temporarily. Who knows? Maybe they'll start making great movies again. So maybe don't underestimate them too much. The more you hate on them, the worse their movies and shows will become so maybe try supporting them a little. Like Age of Ultron, People hated that movie but guess what, Marvel came back with Infinity War and Endgame.
I had an intuition just after Endgame that "It's only going to go down from here". So I avoided Phase 4 hoping to hear buzz and praise around the internet that would change my mind, but all I saw were mix muddy water emotions. You pointed out exactly what I was worried would happen. I was worried Marvel would sacrifice it's dramatic movements to lean more into shock and comedy. I was worried Marvel would get addicted to the high of cameos and start over relying on them. I was worried that the hype and positive fandom would make Marvel more lazy with scripts and plot because the fans would buy tickets anyways. I was worried they would too amped up by the success and try to push out too much content. Every single one of my worries seem to have come to fruition. I don't think the MCU needed to "end" after end game, but they definitely needed to make sure that the movies, shows, and their characters they were setting up for Phase 4 were treated with the same love and respect as the previous phases. Captain Marvel being the way that it was, was the first bad omen.
I agree completely, im so shocked that there wasn't enough critical feedback from anyone in the whole chain of order at marvel. There were some bad films in earlier phases but the quality remained consistently good up until phase 4. Was there really nobody to critically approach these projects and improve the finished product?
I’ve always had a hard time finishing tv shows that I really like because I hate endings. I always wished the shows would go on longer because I was so attached to the characters and the vibe of the show. But what phase 4 of the MCU has taught me is that endings are what makes things beautiful. If they had just finished off the MCU with endgame or maybe 1-2nother movies to tie up lose ends, that would have been soooo much better.
Exactly ! I wanted to make an ongoing cartoon for ppl but its best to create well rounded stories that have fulfilling endings, if there isnt anymore you have to continue a decent chapter at least
I love it how more and more people are coming out with this thought .... and I was here thinking, am all alone, just making my friends happy by acting being excited about the phase 4.
I agree, you're not alone I mean, nothing tops Endgame and I can see they try to innovate - which is always good, but it will take several failures to reach something that will be accepted after everybody has the expectations of the Endgame. I love Taika's series "What we do in the shadows", it has got me falling off the chair laughing. I can see why they chose him to direct this, there were even some jokes from WWDITS in Thor. But...it somehow doesn't click well. At the end oc the day, they still try. They still give us content, and one day, there will be something that clicks, or it'll slowly burn out and we'll be left with Endgame as THE best movie of the franchise.
Everything from phase 1 to 3 made sense. Every movie had a point and was all connected without marvel coming out and saying it was. The characters had interactions and finale (endgame) brought all that together. Thor in his new movie does take himself, those around him and his dark past seriously. It’s just made into a joke, all of them.
@@oa-san53 Ragnarok was delivered beautifully, it shows how Thor really copes from his losses, through Infinity War. L&T was shit, and i'm glad i never watch that movie. edit: typo
I used to be a die hard MCU fan and would love every movie that came out with few exceptions. I think I can proudly say that the quality of this series dipped completely after Endgame. Almost every other product they put out except No Way Home, Loki, Shang Chi, and to some extent Moon Knight in my opinion has either been average to mediocre at best. If this keeps up, they’re going to be digging themselves into a hole so deep that they won’t be able to get themselves out of their mediocrity.
I didn't care for Shang-Chi. There was no hype for it at all and the comedy feels so incredibly forced. No Way Home was the last movie I liked from Marvel, WandaVision, Loki and FatWS being the only series' I liked as of now. Not only that, but their CGI and effort into making a "realistic fantasy" environment has gone to absolute shit.
Can't believe I gotta start accepting that there might be no turning back from what phase 4's inconsistencies has done to the MCU. I always thought a couple good decisions at some point in the future might turn things around but now I'm not so sure because it is highly unlikely that the final say in any future project will prioritize world building and character arcs over instant entertainment value. Disney is butchering the MCU with its extremely narrow minded approach.
What you're seeing here is the same issue that occurs in the comic books. When you have too many titles, too many writers, over too many years - you get a dissonance in canon. Individuals and groups change in ways that are inconsistent or contradictory, and it becomes too much for audiences. The quality of the product is reduced to meet a perceived supply of quantity that ends up underperforming because the customer base atrophies. On top of that, bad political and personal agendas cause additional deterioration of the worth of the product. So we see things like self-inserts, fundamental character changes, and low-caliber stories. We've seen that happen before in the comic industry bust in the 90s and we'll likely see another one soon in that already diminished industry. And unfortunately that's starting to happen with the MCU. Disney wants quantity over quality, and has an agenda to push, while trying to make money. It's a gamble they still think is paying off.
100% 4000 comics Starlin reader in the 70's Warlock Thanos etc. Gave up Marvel in the late 90's events went back at Marvel Now Secret Invasion era and left with All New All Different All Woke...might go back for some Aaron Gillen Hickman arcs
@@souventudubanned After the trash 90s they sorta made it at least bearable in the 2000s, yes good Marvel comics ended in 2000s I still enjoy comics that aren't canon to the main 616 continuity, but the main 616, eh... Sort of a mess They tried to make it "woke" to feel like it's supposed to belong in the current readers but it made it worse, for all those "reality altering reboots", the 2000s era were suprisingly ok, but this All New All Different is where true Marvel comics end...
@@tommygun4552 Yeah 100% "All New All Different" was the end really for...the constant events ruining your favorite titles and arcs and then hiring all the talentless woke retards. The amanat crowd
I see the real plan here being that after the exit of Iron Man, Captain America and Black Widow from most likely any more movies, Disneys aim is to integrate a new sort of avengers - slowly either being mentored by former characters (ie. America Chavez By Doctor Strange) or just by destroying the old characters (ie. thor) - people will get bored of just seeing the same characters recycled so they bring in a new generation - however, this evidently has not been executed well - Wanda Maximoffs story is so confusing for fans that no one can really appreciate what it does as it's quite poorly executed. Loki and other spin offs also seem to have no real purpose and are just there to get money and really do very little but distract from the main film. It's like they're trying to remake the avengers using a poorly connected group of unheard of characters that seem either entirely unrealistic or just insanely stupid or overpowered. The best example of this is Multiverse of madness - the plot is semi coherent and America Chavez could be an amazing character, but she just doesn't work - she's designed as a character to be overly relatable to the point that she just seems like a walking exclusivity add for marvel, her powers make no sense and for a character that's really supposed to just be a kid - she comes off as way to competent in absurd situations. Guardians of the Galaxy is how good character introduction works - the characters seem real with actual experiences and lives that don't seem impossible. They integrate slowly and in a well written way with the MCU - rocket and Thors character arcs insanely good compared to some of the newer characters who just appear and instantly know and are trusted by other characters - like in Hawkeye with the introduction of the kid who's supposed to be insanely skilled but is so unmemorable that i can't even remember her name. Marvel needs to work as a single linear franchise with the occasional branch off that reconnects with the main plot well and quickly, imstead of having 10-20 plots that can't flow coherently, this new integration of characters could work well if they didn't do so many at once, if it was Dr Stranges storyline (so anyone connected to him or the temple or anything like that, then after that's nearing completion they build another story line like in Thor LAT or Loki or anything like that - it'd build up in a way that people would understand and enjoy, it'd maybe result in some characters feeling rushed as I'd assume they'd try to create movies at the same rate as currently, so they'd be making multiple from the same Saga (ie. Dr strange) at the same time instead of doing it one by one. They could theoretically get the same amount of characters being created as they currently are but they'd actually be well developed as the focus is on one Saga or character arc and not 15 at once.
Yeah, it's pretty clear they're working to bring in the failed lineup of Marvel characters from around 2010, the diverse replacements for their flagship names. Ironman replaced by Ironheart, Hawkeye replaced by that one girl, Sam as Captain America, etc etc.
They really screwed with the 2 characters who would actually make sense to keep for generations when they live for thousands of years and i think at least Tom has sxpressed interest in continuing to play the character for a long time if they'll let him.
Phase 4 has the same amount of content in phase 3 but phase 3 took 5 years to finish! It’s too much all at once. And the worst part is that most of that stuff is mid. Other than Shang Chi and NWH everything has been immensely mid
@@elitronprime7322 but they’re doing the same thing with 5, two years with a crapload of stuff and phase 6 ending in 2026 two phases in 4 years! That’s bonkers
On top of that. There's just a huge trend in general involving a "deconstruction" of our heroes by turning them either bitter, corrupt or suddenly incompetent. You've seen it with Skywalker, Han Solo, Strange, Thor, almost Loci and many more. At least it's passed as a deconstruction, but it isn't really, it's a bitter and cynical look at the characters that inspired us with no real added depth.
There's something sinister going on behind the curtains Kevin feigie said Marvel would become more inclusive after endgame n there would be more women than men. If that was their direction, I wouldn't mind. But shitting on the already established male characters, making them idiots just for spite like the later seasons of G.O.T is why the anger from fans will keep growing n the loyalty we had for marvel will die a natural death
Earth’s Mightiest Heroes had an amazing story. I was so sad for it to get canceled before season 3 with all the character development and plots that were set up
@@HeyOzzy24 true. The reason though it sucked cause the lead guy over it, and I think he was the head of Men In Action at the time, didn't think kids cartoons need to be intelligent or have a cohesive plot. Basically he's philosophy of treating the audience dumb is what made emh the better show. But agree Assemble had potential, sadly it wasn't allowed to be more than a typical Saturday morning cartoon.
I think this has all to do with the writing and lack of overarching narrative connection relative to the amount of content we’re expected to watch. Phase 4 had all the momentum from the previous phases and goodwill from the last few movies in Phase 3 that it seemed like it was bound to be an easy transition to the multiverse saga, which by all accounts was initially off to a great start, but the writing in Phase 4 just kept introducing new people and concepts and stakes but lacked any sort of in-universe follow through or internal payoff except for No Way Home. The previous phases we able to do a lot more with a lot less. That said, I can’t help but notice that Raimi/Waldren didn’t watch Wandavision and Waititi didn’t care for the Thor comics. Maybe choosing directors who respect the canon and/or appreciate the source materials might help Phase 4 get out of the mid pile.
I swear, when the idea of Multiverse came to the MCU, I was scared for this universe to get boring fast. The uniqueness of MCU always lied in being grounded in reality. The Multiverse took that away and made it worse by making the whole universe like a living comic book. Its not the same anymore. They are expanding it too much that viewers will just get bored of trying to get every detail. More focus is on the workings of universe than the characters themselves. At least, I am happy that the Avengers had a good end to their stories. I hope maybe after this Multiverse stuff is done with, we can go back to the grounded stuff with Spider Man and Deadpool.
If they mess deadpool 3 up I swear I will never watch another new marvel movie again It’s by far my favourite movie and I’m scared I’m going to watch it fall apart with deadpool3
Dr strange multiverse was stupid with Wanda being the main villian. They should've took heroes from universes that were actually movies like wolverine, Tobeys spiderman, ghost rider, silver surfer or something like that. Or if they are going to introduce multiverse heroes atleast don't kill all of them off in the same movie like wow
3:33 Thanks for saying this by the way. It is very annoying that whenever a movie goes wrong it is mostly if not always blamed on the studio instead of the director. It is refreshing to see someone blame the director rather then the studio.
the original MCU movies have a very special place in my heart, for they were what brought my sister and I close when we didn't get along well, now we're inseparable. plus, they held me up while i was going through a difficult time; so it hurts to see what's become of it. MoM disappointed me so much that i refused to watch LaT in fear it would do the same…looks like i dodged a bullet. Spiderman and WandaVision are the only good things in phase 4, and i sincerely hope Marvel re-evaluates their decisions, because their content has become a massive sh*t show.
yeah i am not loving phase four. i do think that loki also did a good job of having an interesting plot without getting too weird, unlike MoM or the new Thor
@Santosh Kumar Nah Falcon and the Wintersoldier could have been better. It had its good points but the way it basically just made Bucky into Falcon’s side kick was irritating. It was like they just didn’t want Bucky overshadowing or outperforming Falcon. The Biggest gripe I had though was the Falcon & Bucky VS Walker fight. That fight should have been straight up Carried by Bucky, beating Walker should have been his moment. It was made obvious that Bucky was incredibly disappointed that Sam gave away the shield and that it ended up with Walker. He should have destroyed Walker to ram home the point to Walker that being Cap isn’t about being a super soldier and that wether he had the serum or not had nothing to do with him being a suitable Cap. Spurring Walker to make his own shield and lead him to do what he ended up going on to do. The fight didn’t need to be a 50/50 team effort between Sam and Bucky and the fact Sam was at all able to help or do anything was ridiculous. He’s a regular dude with Metal wings, in Wintersoldier Bucky literally plucked his wings off like he was an insect and he couldn’t touch Bucky, that’s how out of his depth he should have been in a direct fight against Walker. But no somehow he took hits from and angry Walker and was able to keep going. It was just silly. He should have been there for the start but ends up KO’ed by Walker and then Bucky beats Walker takes back the shield and wrestles with wether or not he gives Sam back the shield after he originally gave it away or just holds onto it himself. With him ending up giving it to Sam and trusting Steve’s judgement after all. This would have been a better moment And wouldn’t matter if Falcon takes a backseat for the moment since he gets plenty of shine later and the whole point about Sam’s Cap is he’s not supposed to be Steve, he’s not a supersoldier and isn’t supposed to be charging in headfirst against opponents he can’t beat. He was chosen because he was a good man with the same ideals and attitude as Steve and so would be a great leader and Captain America.
Imagine unironically saying that Endgame was a serious movie and it valued its characters. And then being surprised that MCU turned into a joke. It's been a joke since at least 2017.
It certainly appears that they’ve lost their way, at least temporarily. Previous phases showcased strong characters that we cared about in enjoyable, broadly standalone movies that highlighted a path towards an overall finale. This latest batch- though I don’t think all are ‘bad’ movies- don’t suggest the same quality of script, the same planning or attention to detail. Love and Thunder annoyed me greatly. A truly terrible movie that simply does not fit in terms of plot or overall vibe at all. I’m still hopeful they’ll get back on track soon.
Doctor Strange was my favorite marvel character since I saw his movie. I really enjoyed that movie because of how it slowed down in the middle and took TIME to explain magic, and explore Strange's arc. I was so hyped for Doctor Strange 2, but I was utterly disappointed. You can hardly call it a sequel to Dr Strange! It carries NONE of the concepts over, unless they're gags or references. Mordo was set up as such an interesting and believable villian only to be reduced to a throwaway line (Strange saying to Other Mordo "you dedicated your life to killing me") all that setup for a THROWAWAY LINE? I'd also argue that DSMOM did assasinate his character. He lost all ties to his old life for a reason. His whole shtick in Infinty War was "I'm not afraid to let you die for the greater good" which makes sense and allows for him to orchestrate the events of Endgame without getting caught up on the sacrifice. You know, for the greater good. DSMOM completely flips him around, having him follow around America for the whole film as Wanda kills unknown numbers of people to get to her. Not to be dark, but I think not saving America would have been for the greater good. He essentially sacrificed Tony for the greater good in EG, so what changed? Nothing, aside the fact Marvel wanted a new character. The film is too fast, too much, too focused on other characters. It's a sequel to the Marvel continuation, but it's not a sequel to Doctor Strange.
No it was part of strange's character development to save America, because the film was going to have scenes of his sister's backstory but they didn't made to final cut when America came close to strange he started to have feelings for her like she is his sister, even this idea was proposed "was everything happened endgame was it necessary to happen" by his old doctor friend indirectly saying was all the sacrifices were necessary even in no way home he thought that deaths of spiderman villains in the grand calculus of multiverse their death mean more that their lives but peter proved him wrong by turning them into good and sacrifices can be avoided, seems he took motivation from him in MOM, defender strange also tried to do same at the start of the film bit in which he failed, so 616 strange learnt from all of this lessons and decided to save America, but many people weren't able to spot his character development in the movie because the film itself don't show it properly, his arc gets overshadowed by wanda's arc and camoes and short runtime.
I've been a diehard Marvel fan for the past decade or so and it just breaks my heart to see my favourite characters being turned into jokes. At this point I don't even care about any of the stuff they're putting out. She-Hulk was the absolute rock bottom (or is it?). Safe to say I'm pretty much done with Marvel. Sad to see a franchise I grew up with is now being ruined by Disney. I'm turning to Indian cinema now and movies like RRR, Top Gun, KGF 2 etc have made me appreciate good cinema again.
Do you want to know what the nail of the coffin is? When they announced Dare Devil Born Again. It will not even be R Rated, which means it will be another complete bullsh joke!
I completely agree. And honestly, I’m gonna go back and think real hard about what I think of the first 3 phases and maybe even do some rewatches. Watching this video really got me thinking. I haven’t seen Love and Thunder, but I totally agree that Dr. Strange and the MoM concept could’ve been explored with way more detail (and with a better villain) while ALSO having Dr. Strange himself not be a stagnant character. Thinking back to movies like Winter Soldier, I almost feel like I’ve been brainwashed against Marvel purely due to their recent output because a movie like that was amazing, had incredible stakes, such good characters, a great twist, etc. I’ve been doubting the MCU and I think phase 4 (most of it at least) is to blame.
@@VictorELayne77 lol you can do both instead of telling people what to watch my boi not everyone is expecting citizen Kane watching these movies and that doesn’t make them any less of a film imo
Actually, bad post to make that argument because "Winter Soldier" was pretty much the closest thing Marvel did to what would be called a regular drama. I mean, they might as well called Shield the CIA and FBI. Collecting data to off people is something that IS reality, just not in this way....yet. The film itself is fairly close to Three Days of the Condor, just with a protagonist who is stronger. When people shit on marvel its BECAUSE there were movies like Winter Soldier or Iron Man 2 or Civil War or the first Avengers. A bad movie is a bad movie whether its a superhero movie, comedy, or drama. Something is not pablum because of its genre but because of its writing. If there is little that is new to explore, then it will be done by rote. That explains MOST movies, and almost ALL of television. It is there just to keep you distracted from worlds events. Those movies I mention have very real world themes. Once space got introduced then it kind of turned into childrens movies. Like comic books the assumption is that people grow out of them so you need the younger audience. Frankly I'd be interested to know what some people think are 'real movies' because lets see, comedies are supposedly for idiots, and science fiction and fantasy was always said to be for those too stupid to comprehend real world dramas. Which leaves....what exactly? Keeping in mind also that for a long time the reproach from adults about ALL movies was "what are you, a child, read a goddam book". So now that we've erased ALL celluloid as nothing more than eye distractions I guess we all go read The Brothers Karamazov? (PS, y ou should read it, its a classic).
Honestly Shang Chi was pretty solid. Excellent fighting choreo, but with a backstories to back-up why the fighting was so good and why it was happening. Story arc for the main character where he was trying to decide whether he was a murderer like his father or not, but again they haven't merged it well with the phase 4 storyline apart from the odd cameos as you mentioned. Dr Strange 2 and especially Love and Thunder were so boring, apart from some moments that it was actually sad.
Yes, I completely agree, Shang-Chi was SO good, my favorite movie thus far in phase 4, I'm not looking forward to how they butcher adding them to the main storyline
It was a good film but i definetly missed a single drop of Blood at least in the hola movie, the literally went to war with sticks nor swords or knives
shang chi is still only that good relative to the other phase 4 movies. I enjoyed the action, but i figured out the whole story like 15 minutes into it. way too cliche and predictable, but definitely better than thor 4 and multiverse of madness
Shang-Chi was a breathe of fresh air. Easily one of the best of the entire MCU imo but I was also incredibly disappointed with MoM. I was so excited for it too. Even NWH was a bit forced but it still does well due to the deep connection we have to Tobey and Andrew.
I loved many of the movies from Iron Man to Endgame, I spent some great quality time with my father watching these movies and getting hyped for them, but as soon as Endgame was over, I said "thank you, Marvel, but good bye." It was a nice experience, I won't deny that, but it didn't feel the same, so I preferred to treasure the good times and avoid what could tarnish the memories I have.
So true. I wished i stuck with that principle which i did initially. But my movie group and my girlfriend kept pulling me back in and i hated it cuz now its ruined those memories of these beloved characters.
My current state with the MCU is: “I’m not watching 24 movies and 80 episodes of X series in order to understand Dr Strange’s left testy” It feels more like a chore than movies and I’m satisfied with the events up to end game. The rest, I haven’t watched tbh because I don’t really care about them
This is what everyone was asking for, connectivity of this exact kind between stories. People don't know what they want. The capeshit remains capeshit.
One could say this in a gaming analogy. The Infinity Saga is like that one game that made good use of its time and respected the player's time. Giving them a shorter but higher quality experience that they may wanna come back to experience again. While the Multiverse Saga is like a Ubisoft game where it's super big, but most of the content is mediocre at best, making it really difficult to suffer through the experience just to get what little good there truly is. Quality will always outperform quantity when there's a good balance of it. Infinity Saga mostly understood this as almost every film was necessary to fully understand the context of Infinity War and End game. And while that's there for the Multiverse Saga, the quality clearly took a nose-dive in favor of quantity. Ultimately being a waste of time.
@@MeansofIntrigue The actual problem is that they made the characters completely inconsistent. It feels like the writers don't write the story about the characters but change the characters to to fit the story. Wanda and Thor aren't the only ones. For example, they made Loki into a super good guy because the fans liked him, even though it doesn't actually fit his personality. The characters were always a bit inconsistent between movies, likely because different movies had different teams working on them and thus usually a slightly different tone & style. But this really got out of hand over the last few years, especially when they started with the shows. In the past it was possible to have a general idea of the characters' personalities even if you skipped some movies they appeared in but nowadays they feel erratic and inconsistent even if you've watched everything.
@@MeansofIntrigue I don’t think it’s about people and whether they know what they want. It’s that the execution of what people wanted is mediocre and doesn’t feel right. I wasn’t sure but I’m starting to think it’s more than just me that felt like things have been off a little post Endgame.
Multiverse of Madness hurt me so much as a big Wandavision fan. I adored Wanda's character in that show and MOM really made her irredeemable. It completely ruined the best thing post-Endgame for me and killed any interest I had for phase 5, which I was fairly excited about after Wandavision. Some were wondering if she was going to be the new face of the Avengers, but I hope they never put her in a serious position of power and decision making again after that. I feel like MOM was made solely for fanservice and to establish the X-Men and the Fantastic 4 into the MCU.
No Way Home is also pretty theme park ride-esque. - They betray established character traits to make the premise happen-Strange and Parker deciding to do the multiverse spell knowing the potential consequences was just asinine, especially without other approaches being taken first. - Aunt May is used purely as the hot aunt comic relief throughout other films and then suddenly she’s given compassionate traits and a lesson to teach Peter so she can die and have an impact + a reason to give fans feels when the other Peters show up. May’s death felt cheap, and unearned. - The best plot points were from the Sony Spider-Man films and the sheer abundance of cameos with beloved actors and performances is what really sold it. It’s really fun seeing all those characters together on screen. A great theme park ride, but it felt like in ‘getting there’ they did so very lazily as if someone said, “who cares how in the plot it happens. People will pay money to see it.” And I just don’t really feel the desire to see it in its entirety again.
Aunt May is simply MCU accepting they were making a mistake with her and fixed her How are they going to improve without doing that? The only way to grow is to learn so the point u make there is just garbage
@@controlcon no pretty sure they put it in there. The other spideys’ appearances and villains were what was great, but the writing was pretty bad overall.
Earth’s Mightiest Heroes was great and had stories and characters I was previously excited to see in the MCU like Secret Invasion and Kang but there’s probably no way they can make that work nearly as well.
@@RebornRider03 I'm a marvel fan but now i will switch to dc the new batman movie is fucking awesome, the recent movies from mcu not that much it became a joke.
I agree with everything said about Thor, since Ragnarok even, made all emotional moments completely emotionless, but I can't agree with the Wanda part. The thing with wanda in this movie, is that the movie punishes you for not watching the series, so you miss the cause of her taking a city hostage, iamagining stuff and hiding within herself for comfort and rejecting reality, facing Agatha, and ending corrupted by the Darkhold. If anything it was actually awesome to see one of my favorite characters actually go all out, even if overpowered at some point. Multiverse of madness would benefit of a bit extra run time to fix some of the pacing.
You absolutely nailed it. I was a fervent defender as well when Scorsese made his comments, but this new phase of the MCU seems to just continually push out disposable content. People watch, then promptly forget. There are no big stakes, there's not further joining threads other than the cameos. The worst part is all this disposable content is it is homework, required reading in order to understand anything that's currently going on. If you didn't see wandavision, you had no idea what was happening in strange. Also, every single new show/movie has a cgi saturated third act that is basically a cartoon with some Deus ex machina that solves the problem (eternals: chant and hold hands, moon knight: get big, chant and hold hands, Thor: you need love, holds fosters hand, wishes for good ending, etc). Like you, I'm losing interest quick - and that's hard and sad for me to say - I'm a die hard cap fan. But he seemed to have made it out before the downfall. And I'm ok with that.
Doctor Strange 2016 wasn't an amazing film, but I was going back through older films and man, it was so refreshing to see the protagonist outsmart the villain instead of winning a massive punch-up.
I guess there's now a public belief that "to watch a movie, you have to watch everything else" but that's not true. Most of these projects are stand alone and largely disconnected. This includes shows like Loki, Moon Knight, Ms. Marvel, Falcon and the Winter Soldier, No Way Home, Shang-Chi, Thor: Love and Thunder and Eternals... Only Hawkeye and Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness needed "homework", and the "homework" should have already been finished. WandaVision came out in early 2021, a whole year before Doctor Strange 2 and Black Widow came out around 9 months before Hawkeye... So yeah, this myth of "Marvel homework" has just been busted common sense...
@@XxFoguinhoxX "you don't have to do hw" Also Sunee: "Only Hawkeye and Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness needed "homework" yes, much common sense. Also, you must not have watched no way home - it literally pulls from DR strange, and 2 other Spiderman franchises. Or Thor - why is thor not king? who is Valkyrie? Who is Jane Foster? What happened to the hammer? Why are there two hammers, who is the rock guy? There's a big difference between world building and making something that has required reading.
I didn’t mind Multiverse of Madness that much, sure I had my issues with the movie but Thor Love and Thunder was terrible, I don’t get how they could take someone who was badass 2 movies ago (infinity War) and make him a completely joke. Also don’t even get me started on how they advertised The Guardians to be in most of the movie and they were in it for a good 10 minutes. I was actually hyped for Thor because of the Guardians and Thor dynamic but that was stripped away just like Thor’s story. Like I said with Multiverse of Madness I had my problems with it but it is a way better movie than Thor. I can see myself rewatching the movie but I can never rewatching Thor Love and Thunder
@@matteckert7945 I'm with you 100% I haven't seen Thor yet. But I've been hearing and read similar stories. And it looks stupid just from the trailer alone. I seen comments from the director. From what he said. He doesn't even seem to like the movie as well. His own movie that he filmed. He even took out over an hour of the movie and it's still sucks. That's sad!!
I'm glad I watched this video. It was very thoughtful. I thought this was just going to be another rant about how SJWs are ruining the "M-she-u" but you surprised me. Well done. The saddest thing about Marvel's handling of Thor is that Chris Hemsworth really is a great Thor. I don't think he gets enough credit for that.
I'm so glad to see this comment, I'm not alone! It's so exhausting to see almost every youtuber rant about woke agenda ruining the MCU when it's not even the main issue and simply a symptom of growing corporatism which mostly just perpetuates antagonism against minorities by misrepresenting them. I'm glad this video didn't feature it.
@@b.h.4249 I think I agree with the first comment more, but I’m a little confused by what you mean misrepresenting them. I do agree that phase 4 has no direction, it has nothing it’s really building up too, they need to slow down with all this stuff, plan it out instead of pumping it out as fast as possible.
@@BlueTyphoon2017 The writers like to put their diverse characters in the forefront in a manner that feels more like attention-grabbing and less than simply an organic inclusion into the story. One example would be the 'girl power' scene featuring all female heroes in the final battle of Endgame. Some portrayals are done well, like for example Kamala Khan, but others less so. Captain Marvel, for example has a very aggressive portrayal of feminism which in itself isn't necessarily a bad thing, but in the current cultural climate inevitably drew in the hatred of many fans, especially male ones and the studio should have been aware of the reaction their portrayal would provoke. Marvel also tends to backpedal on their diversity a lot which makes their representation attempts come across as disingenuous a lot of times. In Endgame, for example Captain Marvel's complaints were brushed away with an "So what are you gonna do? Cut your hair again?". This joke only made sense out of universe and was meant to point at Captain Marvel and go "Look how self-righteous and annoying she is, doing feminist things like cutting her hair all the time". Jane Foster is killed off at the end of Love and Thunder, never to be seen again. I think the main problem is simply that the overall writing quality of the MCU is steadily declining, meanwhile they try to include as many diverse characters as possible while also being aware that the number of people blaming these characters for the bad writing quality is increasing rapidly. They simply don't care that reactionaries draw in a growing crowd of people, convincing them that queer people and women are out to dominate society. They don't include diversity for the sake of genuine representation, but for the sake of profits often coupled with bad writing, ignoring the negative reaction from a large part of the fanbase that is directed towards the very people it's supposed to represent and support.
I mean, many people (including myself) agreed with Scorsese sincethe begining because the themes and the formula was always pretty simple and repetitive, the thing is that before people were invested as a collective, but even the comics fans found them goofy in comparison to the original story lines.
Avengers Endgame was iconic despite having some little flaws and the MCU definitely ended after endgame. I bet marvel would never be able to replicate the greatness of the infinity saga and Thanos will always remain the greatest marvel villain of all time no matter how many Kang variants you bring.
Here's my shit headcanon: This is all just a fever dream. When Thanos snapped everyone away, the surviving heroes was such in a dire state of hysteria and delusion that they started fantasizing about a different future when they came on top after the events of Infinity War. Endgame didn't happen, it was just a scenario they made up in their mind in a desperate attempt to escape from their own dystopian reality because as everyone knew, it's not easy or even possible to fix what was already done. Scott Lang was only lucky that he was saved from the snap and his quantum theory to travel back in the past is impossible because even Tony knew that building a time machine is not nearly as easy to accomplish. He didn't discovered time travel in one night, it's too convenient and eventually everybody came to the conclusion that they can't do anything but accept defeat and rebuild society. Now here we are in phase 4, a continuation of their fever dream from longing for success. It's the reason why phase 4 is nothing short but stupidity and ridiculousness. Steve dreaming of a scenario where he get to see Peggy again, retire and give the shield to Sam and Bucky (The Falcon and the Winter Soldier), Tony dreaming that if Peter was alive he would've continued his legacy and be a better person like he'd hope to (Spiderman Far from Home and No way home), Thor envisioning a different reality where he's finally happy, cracking jokes all the time, being the savior of his culture like he used to (Thor: Love and War), Bruce fantasizing of a place where he is not the only Hulk and he can pass the ways of his powers to someone else such as his cousin (She-Hulk) and many more. Like I said, it's a shit headcanon. But at least I've given myself a reason to why phase 4 is such an abomination.
May I adjust your headcanon just slightly? "The Fever Dream" is real, but it started at Hulk-Snap. Hulk obviously doesnt have the years of experiment and knowledge on the stones Thanos did, and the Gauntlet was an item of magic they didnt even get near to comprehend. So when Hulk-Snap happaned, it just locked their universe into a version of itself, with remnants of Hulks will, but because he was utterly unprepared to operate the stones, the Hulk-Snap essentially created this shitty, boggly, randomshit happening randomly, universe. And they have no way of learning what actually happened. They just think, everything that happened, is really, unaltered, reality.
It’s a damn shame how the quality of the writing has gone down. And those two movies are the exact examples that come to mind in what’s going on with their poorer quality. That and the formulaically rushed nature of their 6episode Tv show formats.
This video is exactly what I wanted to see. I’m half way through it and you’re hitting each emotional beat I’ve been thinking since walking out of the theater a few days ago. Although I have been skeptical of marvel movies heavily since avengers 2, I would always go see them with friends on opening night. The past few movies have been so bad but none of them got me to be as upset as thor has. They have no shame at all with killing off these characters and ruining them at the same time.
From an outsider perspective on the franchise (meaning, I have watched most but not all movies and enjoyed only some of them, a couple I would consider "really good") this was always going to happen. Hell, I am surprised it hold as long as It did. The MCU was milked dry already early on, but in that period It was engaging to see different angles of the same world. Then It became a chore to keep up with it. You either knew the franchise, or you couldn't Watch some of the movies.
Well the problem is they are ruining the past established and beloved characters which are close to our heart .We don't care about what ever happens to new shitty characters
Sums up my point of view from a non-american, non-comic fan perspective. In interesting lesson in state of the art world building. But a chore to keep up with, which I wanted to do first, but when 4 movies come out in a year (or more) and fans start to explain to you that you HAVE to read books and magazines to... well I have a life, family, work, career, I care about politics... ah most Americans don't care about politics they conflate it with comic's, that must be it.
@@LiveWireBT It's not even that. The worldbuilding of the MCU is just throwing more lore un to accomodate more stories. There is not a specific unifying principle to the setting, a way in which things fit together in a cohesive and logical fictional universe.
I noticed it when i saw no way home how the script could’ve been way better but i still enjoyed it then i had hopes for MoM but was disappointed as well and now thor just made me give up completely on marvel now . Going out with friends to see new marvel premieres was my favorite thing to do, and for the first time ever i fell asleep while watching a marvel movie and that was thor :/
i think what taika watiti said in an interview summed it all up. marvel told him to create another thor movie even though there is pretty much no more stories to cover.
I remember looking forward to the second Marvel movie of the year whenever I would watch one at the cinema super hyped. After 2016 though was the beginning of the end when they released three movies in one year and you could tell the budget and effort was stretched thin with Homecoming, Ragnarok and Guardians 2. Obviously Infinity War and Endgame after were great but black panther in 2018 suffered, antman and the wasp, Captain Marvel in 2019 but far from home was fine in my opinion but wasn't great. Theres a noteable difference between pre 2016 marvel and post 2016 marvel. It's only covered up by Infinity War and Endgame. The cgi is more frequently terrible, the jokes are more silly and forced, the plot line is taken less seriously ( I always wished they made Thor Ragnarok a bit more serious and dramatic, would've been my favourite MCU film by far) and snarkiness seemed to equal 'humour' and this was used for most characters even ones that didn't fit.
I hope you don't mind me giving my two cents. I think when it started was in Age of Ultron when they made the Hulk into a joke. In Endgame, Thor became AL Bundy and they got to relying on jokes too much. But, you can definitely see those flaws now, and they're getting worse. I worry about the second Black Panther movie. I hope it doesn't suffer the same fate.
Can the MCU REALLY end though? Unless they stop making superhero films all together, I have a hard time believing it could truly “end”. What they need to do is stop rushing the material and flesh their stories out more - give us more of the quality of phase 1. Otherwise, people are going to start getting tired even more than they already are now and move on from the MCU.
I don’t know, looking back at it, Phase 1 was kind of mediocre. Iron Man and The Avengers were great movies, Captain America: The First Avenger wasn’t as great but it was still a good movie, and then Hulk, Iron Man 2 and Thor were either average or mediocre
@@BlackstarSI Honestly, to me a GREAT movie is one I constantly think about and discuss, years after I've watched it I have not felt that way watching a single marvel movie
I'm sad you didn't mention Shang Chi as good movie. Not only that it has good visuals and choreography,but it also has good writing specially Wenwu. Edit: Okay I'm sorry I just thought he didn't said it I'm not giving attention much to the video.
Thor was honestly my favorite character. I felt he had the best character arc out if all the MCU character in my opinion. He may have not had the best 2nd movie but from losing everything to getting the redemption he needed at the end of End Game was pleasing even though they made him fat.
All the things you've said I've been telling my friends for quite some time now...I thought I was alone, and seeing this video makes me happy because I know I am not bugging out. Everything you said is right on point and I totally agree with you.
Yeah I think we all owe Thanos a HUGE apology
You couldn't live with your own failure, where did that bring you? Back to me.
Agreed
Thanos always right
Not a huge one
An earth size apology
@@toast2492 agreed
The original Iron Man still holds up remarkably well.
Yeah but we ain’t talking about the original Mcu movies today
Saw it last night. Still a great movie.
That movie is a timeless masterpiece and always will be. Aged like a fine wine. Saw it when it first came out in theaters and still have vivid memories of it. I've been thinking for a while now that it eclipses even TDK as an overall movie. It just has so much soul and energy. The reason Iron Man 1 is as great as it is is because Marvel knew if that movie failed, their cinematic universe would be done for so they went all in and succeeded.
A masterpiece, simple as that.
Because unlike modern day MCU, this movie has a heart.
What hurts the most about the Wanda and thor loss parallels is that Wanda's was taken seriously, thor's was played as a joke, the man lost everything, and it was played for laughs.
Let's be honest. Nobody cares when men are suffering because that's what men do, endure through suffering. Look at what they did in She-Hulk, Bruce lost everything and was hunted down most of his life with nobody but a raging monster for companionship, but apparently dealing with that is the equivalent of women dealing with catcalling
@@ascended8174 Not just the equivalent, it's treated as lesser
@Ascended that scene alone cemented for me how difficult it was going to be to like her as a main character and take her seriously. Bruce has been through 1000 fold what she has.
@@ascended8174 fr man, dude was hunted by multiple government agencies, he also had to take up a job in the slums just to survive
pretty accurate how society view tragedies for men and women, its a tragedy for women but a comedy for men lol
This is why some stories are better ended than being continued like what most people want.
It personally bothers me so much what they did to Thor. He was an amazing character that they could have done so much with but turned him into an incompetent joke. Thor has suffered so, so much. He’s lost literally everything aside from his own life and a few close friends. And they turn his misery into a punch line yet at the same time want us to feel sorry for Wanda over the exact same thing. Why is Thor losing everything funny but for Wanda it’s sad? The whole issue reeks of double standards. They need to fire Watiti and get someone else to start writing and directing because he is just not it. These movies have lost the heart and soul that made them so good. Now they’re done for as you said, cheap jokes and cameos.
We should mainly blame taika waititi for love and thunder. He saw how well ragnarok did with its good humour and jokes so he just took it over the top with L&T and it didn’t work.
If you suffered as much loss as Thor (and Wanda for that matter) has, you'd be emotionally broken and act out of character too.
@@dentrobate54 no matter how out of character you get I’m pretty sure you don’t grieve by making big fat jokes out of your misery
Thor's "jokes" in Infinity War were perfect imo due to it not just being "haha funny" but they actually serve a purpose for Thor's tragic characterization. Love an Thunder on the other hand is just jokes for joke sake and its perhaps a perfect case for character assasination.
I don’t get it. Ragnorok was almost as bad. It was like they had a list of one liners and just wrote a script around that. They saw the humor was a hit so they upped it; a very common thing with Hollywood. If you all care so much about balanced storytelling, you should’ve shot back BEFORE we got to this point.
The "everything is connected" idea sounds good when it first implemented, but no longer cool when that "everything" is 20+ films and 10+ series. Imagine someone who wants to join the MCU party now, would they really want to spend 90+ hours just to understand what's happenning in one movie?
That’s a good point. I guess every problem I have goes back to that they’re making too much
sounds pretty daunting. watching 23 movies for end game to make sense was fun since the movies were good overall, but now you got a bunch of movies and shows to keep track of.
As someone who was once an mcu fan, i don't have time to catch up with whats happening anymore, they're dumping too much films and series in just a year and it feels too oversaturated and too tiring to watch now
Needless to say i don't know the current story anymore lol
Like I don't know where to start from
This is a bad formula for longevity. Older fans will fall off and new fans won’t come in to replace them. I can’t imagine these movies being like Star Wars or the Harry Potter movies because 20+ years from now, no one is going to sit down and watch all of these movies, even just getting Endgame is a slog.
With Endgame I think I experienced every single emotion a person could experience. I was so emotionally drained by the end of the movie. That’s the kind of feeling those movies provoked. Now the MCU just makes me constantly roll my eyes every two minutes
If they would’ve of taken a break after end game. Then come back years later not rushing making movies. I think we could’ve seen so much better material.
It never seizes to amaze me how emotionally invested people can get about something so basic and elementary as marvel movies.
@@Dreadkin1489 Agree ~~
@@danarespress164 They want money. There’s always Marvel fanboys and girls who will reach into their wallets for every new MCU movie
That’s why endgame is just absolutely crazy in a good way
Literally was talking about this with my wife last night. As a comic book/ manga guy I always wanted a fleshed out experience. When the MCU first started it was just a good time in general. The conversations my friends and I would have about the movies months, even years after release were even fun to have.
But her and I both agreed that these new ones are just for fun. Which isn’t bad; but, it’s disappointing.
Are they just for fun, or just for money?
@@AndyLowe-net for money sadly :/
I can’t believe we’ve reached a point where I’m more excited for the next DCEU movie than the next MCU movie. I still have some slivers of hope (like with Guardians 3 and Spider-Man 4), but this phase feels so disjointed and has become a perfect example of “quantity over quality.”
Quantity over quality you meant
@@MovieMicah thanks
Especially since they plan on making a proper reboot and focus on characters.
Black Adam looks pretty good
The DCEU part is correct lol. I'm still hyped for Black Panther though.
What genuinely boils my blood is the sheer insensitivity of Taika Waititi towards the fans. He think that everyone who criticizes his work is a troll. People criticize something when they love it and him saying that he will ruin Thor further angers me beyond measure. I read that Kenneth Branagh was supposed to do Thor Ragnarok and I will cry everyday knowing we will never get to see his version of Ragnarok. If make a Thor 5, they should bring back Kenneth Branagh or someone who actually respects the characters, stories and the feelings of the fans.
Yep! I mean Ragnarok is still better and enjoyable than love and thunder. But when you know how the actual event of Ragnarok, it's just disappointing. That's where i know what kind of Director is Taika and how i lose hope once they announce he gonna be the director of love and thunder (Actually i already kinda lose hope when they announce the movie title)
@@dentangaji6161 Exactly. My heartbeat increased when he was announced as the director for love and thunder.
he can be after love and thunder.
@Lorenzo Smit JJ wasn't great, but to be fair, he got cucked. Had he at least received some level of control to plan out the trilogy, the final product would've been, at the very least, cohesive and consistent, if not OG trilogy/Clone Wars-level of quality. Then the sequels wouldn't have convinced people that the prequels were somehow masterpieces.
@Lorenzo Smit That's a weird way to spell Rian Johnson...
“You either die a hero, or live long enough to become the villain.”
This statement perfectly describes Disney’s mindset.
no one's safe from the mouse
*become the clown
Here, I fixed it for you ;)
Oh no, Disney was always a villan.
*see yourself become the villain.
Only ppl who believed that are mcu shills
The MCU currently has turned into what kang was afraid of
The MCU was built in a three-act story structure. Phase 1 was the first act, The Avengers being the inciting incident. Phases 2 and most of 3 were the second act, with Captain America: Civil War being the major turning point in the middle of everything. Infinity War and Endgame were the third act, the big climax (in this case, there were two climaxes). It ended. The story concluded. The fact that it has kept going makes it less of a story and more of a timeline.
And yes, Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes is awesome!
why do you want it to end? the story continues after endgame in the comics (i know the comic wasn't called endgame) so why shouldn't it continue in Movie form?
@@EzraH214 I’m not saying it shouldn’t. I’m just stating the facts
@@LaneWinn you're probably one of those people who thinks Marvel ruined the hulk lol also you literally said "The fact that it has kept going makes it less of a story and more of a timeline" by you saying that implies you don't like Marvel making more movies and you wanted it to stop after endgame
@@EzraH214 Endgame tied up itself as the end. It left more room for Thor yet failed miserably at continuing it in LaT, along with a few of the characters, but it’s the end of a story. Not the end of a chapter, but a story. If you want to do more with your world, which I’m all for, you start new instead of relying on people already knowing the story before.
At least that’s my take on it.
@@LaneWinn I mean its obvious they are setting up for secret wars but goddamn they did Gor dirty he was basically Thanos on steroids but without the drawback of needing the infinity stone and look what they did to him
It REALLY bothers me how people know about thanos in the MCU. I get antman wrote a book and that’s how but it just feels weird seeing his name thrown around. Making an icecream cone shop based off someone who commuted genocide
Honestly whoever came up with that idea should be banned from writing comedy forever. That’s the equivalent of having an ice-cream shop based off WW2
@@joeyjerry1586 more like having an ice cream stand but with a swastika holding up ice cream.
@@ハーフ-r1m what's your problem with Hinduism?
It was the oldest religion and a great religion... idk what your problem with that shit is
@@therealslimshady6763the nazi swastika (hakenkreuz) is different from Hindu and Buddhist symbols despite looking similar. The angling is what matters there. Also it's often called a swastika anyway because the first translations of Hitler's mein kampf often referred to it as such instead of it as the hakenkreuz.
@@ハーフ-r1mmaybe
But what is wrong with a Swastika?
Marvel has fallen off so incredibly hard. The fact that introducing the multiverse creates a need for quantity in the MCU to one up Avengers Endgame, but they're going in the completely wrong direction for the franchise.
I was excited for the multiverse, especially after no way home but then Dr Strang MoM came out and completely killed my interest.
THOR was way worse than Dr. strange
They just want to release everything so damn quickly and stick to their strict schedule. I think they should take time to make their movies and series and stop with the over comedy stuff. If it means secret wars has to be delayed to 2030 or something then so be it
It did not, it was always that bad
Its woke politics. Its spreading like cancer in the US. It's so cringeworthy to watch it now.
After Endgame, I said "OK Marvel, you did your job.
Now stop."
I've actually been complaining about this since Ragnarok. I went in expecting a mostly serious movie and wasn't ready for it to be just a string of one-liners. I feel like Marvel realized how much people liked the witty style of Guardians of the Galaxy (which was perfectly fitting for THAT movie) and decided to apply that to all their future movies. But they've leaned into that so far that they've sacrificed the story just to get a few chuckles.
I really disliked Ragnarok, but I especially disliked it for being the last movie before Infinity War. Thanos' ship arriving after Asgard got desecrated should have been a huge moment with a lot of weight giving off "oh shit" energy. But after 2 hours jokes and nonsense, those two moments held little to no weight for me. Why should I take the ending seriously when the rest of the film didn't take itself seriously?
That one was mostly cause people really didn't enjoy the other two thor movies as much.
Ironically Ragnarok is still the best thor movie. Thor 3 > Thor 2 > Thor 4 > Thor 1 (1 and 4 are both dogshit tho)
@@saberfan thor 2 💀
Imo
Thor 3≥Thor >Thor 4>>Thor 2
@@fargo1234 aint no way boi
Even before Phase 4, I actually agreed with Martin Scorsese regarding his definition of cinema, and that movies like most of the MCU were like theme park rides. It's just that most of the MCU at the time were solid, consistent, and fun movies, something that the majority of Phase 4 is not.
And while fans didn't want it to happen, many of us predicted this was going to happen after Endgame just by the fact that it was 11 years of building up to the Infinity Gauntlet story. The real warning sign for me was Captain Marvel shoehorned near the end of Phase 3. The movie hurt Nick Fury, and was just there. When Captain Marvel showed up in Endgame, she did little to nothing except appear too late in the beginning and deflate the end a fair bit when she psycho crushered Thanos' ship. Apply that thought to all of Phase 4 with additional issues like everything is a world ending dooms day, or too many movies/shows to follow, and no wonder the MCU is now a mess.
I loved the first 3 phases of the MCU, but I already learned not to watch everything MCU starting with Agents of SHIELD. As far as I'm concerned, the MCU ended with Endgame, and while I loved Spiderman No Way Home, I find all of Phase 4 to be skippable.
yeah I agree too with Martin Scorsese, for the reason that MCU generally is no longer director's vision, but more like company's vision, in this case Disney. director no longer have the creative responsibility to make the movie in their style. they have to submit to Feige, who also has to submit to, probably, board member of Disney with their own political view and interest.
@@EggEnjoyer back then, the trash is new. Now, the trash already became compost and microplastic
I still don't agree with Scorsese. He just thinks popular movies can't be art, when they can be. He's just like the Oscars, producing niche movies nobody watches, and calling it art simply because it's niche.
Blockbusters can be art, and niche movies can be dogsh*t, nothing can be summed up with a blank statement, everything (and everyone) has to be judged individually.
@@mattevans4377 I don't think it's quite like that. While I definitely think he sees NO superhero movies as being, by his POV, cinematic (meaning even Joker to him doesn't count), I do think that it's more because superhero movies and the like were being pushed more than the movies he was brought up watching. Not everyone is into any genre, so it can be hard to go to the movies when most of the time theaters are being saturated with blockbuster wannabes. For the most part, companies go where the money goes.
@@AegisKHAOS Still doesn't give him the right to give blanket statements on things. Especially not with his supposed caliber. If you think you know best, prove it, with well defined analysis, not blank statements.
It really breaks my heart what Marvel did to the Thor character. They turned him into a goofball.
Literally
He has always been a goofball, but how hes just a joke plot device
Being funny isnt just a part of his personality before, now being funny is all he is
Bruh they dogged the Hulk...... you knew Thor was next.
because were still dumb enough to hit the movie theaters
For real, same with Hulk.
Both characters used to be serious and intimidating (Most of the time) but in the new movies they just completely ruined them.
Thor has lost literally everything, and he still cracks cheap jokes and laughs all of it off.
Hulk used to actually be a scary monster but they've turned him into some stupid joke.
Earth's Mightiest Heroes was one of the best Marvel shows ever. The amount of work and care that went into the stories was wild
One thing I don’t like is that (at least how I’m seeing it) they’ve turned pretty much every character quipping machines, characters like Iron Man and Star Lord felt alright because they’re meant to be lovable douchebags but now everyone seems to do it.
I agree and I'm not a fan of of unfunny Marvel jokes in the middle of a serious scenes
Unfortunately Thor ragnarok got too much attention for how bad it was in hindsight so now Disney is trying to replicate that “funny formula” for the movies or characters they don’t care about.
Tony Stark was a lovable douche bag. Star Lord...was mostly just a douche bag. He was always just annoying and unnecessary.
Really just feels like they are trying so hard to replace tony stark when it just can’t be done
@@Green_Eyed_Monster I feel like that was supposed to be his arc, like after his major fuck-up against Thanos, he was supposed to be humbled and start becoming a better person. Unfortunately, the route Marvel has decided to go... we're not gonna see that.
I think it's clear that Taika shouldn't direct another thor movie ever again
or movie movie
@@JakCT- His other movies are actually downright great though. Just dont let him touch anything Marvel, he doesnt read comic books.
@@JakCT- he is a good director, but his style of directing is different compared to how Comic Book movies are supposed to be, the feeling of watching Love and Thunder was like it was a comedic parody
Let's just all admit that Ragnarok was great
Well he is 1 for 2. While that doesn't mean I disagree with you, I do want to give him credit for Thor 3. In my opinion Thor 3 was one of the best MCU movies to date!
It’s sad because WandaVision could have set up a new villain: Mephisto. With Multiverse and Blade, Mephisto could have been a mover and shaker, constantly making deals with both the minor villains and heroes so they’d end up being his. In the end, Dark Avengers would have been his puppets.
Or, actually make the Skrull a threat. Something I hate about Captain Marvel, besides everything, was how they made the Skrull - you know, the species that conquer worlds by assimilating - the victims. Which they’re not.
great takes
The first mistake Disney made was making TV shows and tying them into the movies, making it so fans had to watch the TV shows (And let's be frank, buy Disney+) to understand the movies.
That made everything disjointed and led to this downfall.
Mephisto has no connections to Wanda lol he wouldn’t make any sense
They shouldn't have killed Wanda, it would be awesome to see her as like, an apocalypsed styled henchman for mephisto.
@@Eden68161 wandas dead ?? i dont even remember, i saw DS and MoM but shit was just mad forgettable 🤦♂️
I just discussed this with my friend the other day and he and I agreed on one term that is Disney just making everything they touched rotten. Instead of focus on making really great movies and connect them together now they spending on expanding this franchise as much as possible and push everything they want into EVERY one of them.
You know something isn't right when Oscar winning actors Natalie Portman and Christian Bale can't save a movie from being terrible. Cancer is a joke, loss is a joke, death is a joke.
As a wise captain used to say:
"The world is still the same, it's just less in it."
Last line of your comment is Gold
@@sahilsalunkhe5431 So it would seem.
Well you misquoted that captain, and whatever gave you the impression that anything in the MCU was ever not a joke?
@@FreakyTeeth That's literary what he says.
Disney really did ruin it. They lowered production quality for Marvel and Star Wars. They have a standard to cater more towards KIDS and less for adults which ruins deep story-telling.
Kevin Feige once said that Multiverse of Madness was supposed to be a horror film. But since it’s catered towards children, they bumped the horror factor way down and went with a more quirky, tacky type of horror (no offense to Sam Raimi, but I think his direction for the movie would’ve been better if Disney didn’t prevent them from making the movie “kid-friendly”)
They also RUINED KINGDOM HEARTS 3!
okay I’m done
Huh? Disney owns Marvel all the way back since 2009. You saying pre 2009 MCU movies are better than what comes after?
@@gusp6612 Disney didn't start distributing MCU movies until 2012 though and they've been meddling a lot more recently and the quality of these films show it.
@@23bitchris60 and what comes after 2012 has been really good.
No way home wouldn’t ever happen without Disney’s big name, influence and budget. It’s all about the people that works on the project. Sam Raimi is just a fraud, and Taika just love comedy a bit too much. The people put in charge of phase 4 is a mixed bag, and that’s on Kevin Feigi, not Disney. He choose to pump out this many projects. Pixar and Star Wars doesn’t make this many projects.
@@gusp6612 you call what Taika did comedy?!!!? More like the funniest jokes a 9 year old can come up with
Oh I would kill for a Dr Strange horror movie. I’m also a sucker (pun intended) for Eldritch stuff, so when some leaks made it look like the main villain was a monster in that genre, I was excited. But nope it served basically no purpose
Everyone says that the MCU is becoming more like the comics, like how it's branching into different styles, or having loose continuity between events. But I'd argue that these things don't automatically make the MCU good. There's a lot of baggage with the comic book format. Some content becomes so developed on its own, that it requires homework to follow. The expansive character rosters make certain events, power hierarchies, and character decisions difficult to justify. And sooner or later, the universe becomes so expansive and complex that it collapses under its own weight and a reboot becomes inevitable. Is this really the kind of stuff we want to see happen to the MCU?
BRO the MARVEL comics recently have been dog shit....so I guess it makes sense nowl
Great comment. I agree with you completely
That's probably why Spiderman despite every big trend in the comics has still been the top dog of MARVEL. The Avengers is a team of heroes with so many different expansive adventures that it's impossible to keep track of them all, the X-Men is even worse as it splits off into multiple different teams with no definitive cast, and most of the other characters get thrown into their own little world. But not Peter Parker. Despite his long-running mythos, Peter still manages to maintain the heart of a superhero story and ties all the others together.
Funny they say that when they actively destroy the characters that made those stories good. It's like they were thinking they can take all the aspects of comics that look cool or can be seen as profitable and left out all the parts like having a good story and good characters.
Yes.
I love the final point of your video: There's too much going on and it's not actually connected anymore. Too many multiversal gimmicks and god-level characters and world-endangering events but once the movie/show is done you don't feel any of the ripples throughout the Marvel universe.
I feel like if they wanted to make a joke out of Thor’s mental health and loss they could’ve used it as a platform to have him relate to many people who have their mental health and trauma jokes about. And while I think that was the message that was intended by the movie, they just didn’t act on it and chose cheap “humor” and “action” to make up for it. When Quill said that it’s better to feel pain than to feel nothing it felt like that should’ve been a line that was called back to at a turning point in the story but it was only called back to for the fan service of seeing Thor and Jane get back together. Overall the potential for Thor 4 was so high and yet they disappointed me so much
The fact that they actually manage to make Starlord sounds more mature than Thor in that scene really says a lot that they prefer more jokes than logical character arc...
I rewatched the old marvel movies, more mature and less jokes. the characters were much more animated and accurate like in the comics. But thor 4 was an effing disappointment, especially Gorr is a great villain and played by one of the greatest actor. Taika had to make a parody out of it.
I don't feel like they make a joke out of Thor's mental health, I'm actually pretty sure that's the one thing they don't joke about. You have Thor, deep in depression, acting out and being goofy just to feel alive. Jane, confronted to her own imminent death, joking basically for the same reason. And Thor, having lost almost everything and losing the last thing that matters, earning the win not through force, not powering through pain, hiding it, setting it aside, or fueling an angry vengeance like in every action movie, but actually admitting it, sharing it, and using his experience of grief as a force for good to reach out to his opponent on a spiritual level instead of through his fists or special effects. As a person who's lived with depression for 20 years and lost two children two years ago, I did relate to that.
Gorr was an absolute travesty, so heart breaking, it was worth so much more
I feel like when the MCU was great, the DCEU was lacking and just pumping out movies for the sake of pumping out movies (except for exceptions like Wonder Woman). But now that the MCU is in Phase 4 and declaring all these projects for Phase 5, the DCEU has recently been picking up their quality and focusing on taking it slow. The Joker and the Batman were some of the best cinematic works I've seen recently, and I hope they're working to keep that work up.
The joker and the batman films aren't connected to DCEU tho
those two aren't connected though... right?
And their most recent wonder woman film was garbage
@@senseishu937 the first WW was good, 2nd one was trash I'm not gonna even deny. But either way, all the movies including Joker and the Batman were made by Warner Bros, just like how all the Marvel movies were made by Disney
snyder cut justice league was good
These silly Marvel thingy are great examples of what would happen to a production house that forced everything to be aligned to LGBTQ, leftist, feminism and stuff like that. No hate, but it is what it is. Just a perspective.
Say what you want, people.
For me personally, the issue I have with phase 4 is that their movies are mediocre at best. While it is building towards one of marvel’s greatest events (Secret Wars), it is doing a lazy job at introducing the ideas and connecting them.
For those who don’t know. Secret Wars has A LOT of marvel characters (hero’s and villains).
Introducing these characters, giving them enough screen time and a proper backstory, is a big challenge they have to overcome.
agreed agreed also I think they are tryna lame out the old heroes so the new ones seem crazy and hype. That is my guess.
They knew its the dark age so theyre rushing
Yeah MOM, made the whole multiverse idea as if it was like nothing. It just seem to throw away the idea at the end of the movie.
It definitely feels like they’ve fallen into the writing pitfall where they really want to get to one thing so they rush everything else to get there
@@Hgh38 Loki introduced that 1st and it had 10 episodes. MoM was the 1st MCU movie to use it, and quantumania will probably use it a lot more. Kang doesnt seem like he'll be too exciting of a villain though tbh
The problem with these movies is that they have brilliant concepts like multiverse or madness but just don’t turn them into actually good fleshed out movies that are the best they can be, it’s like they chose their first idea and stuck with it.
This was a high-quality video essay.. hit the nail right on the head. This was the first year that I told myself "I'm done watching all of Marvel's movies and Tv shows". Their movies used to be an event, but the magic and excitement are completely gone now. The foreshadowing in Loki is the only aspect that still intrigues me. Also, love your reference to Earth's mightiest heroes, that was an amazing show.
I feel the same way, I finally skipped a Marvel movie with Eternals and still don’t plan on seeing it. I wasn’t going to see a movie I thought looked liked crap with characters I’m.m not interested in just because it had the Marvel logo on it. I did the same for Ms Marvel and will do the same for She-Hulk and the Marvels.
I agree with your point with Wanda, she went from one of my favorites, hell she was my favorite, but then the MOM shit happened. I think it'd be good for her to have a villain arc especially a house of m type of arc but the way her arc happened was so abrupt. Almost forced imo. They should've had Wanda help Steven and Miss America first then slowly, the more she finds about Miss America's powers, the more she has second thoughts.
She can travel between universes, which meant if she asked America, she would see her sons again at least just once. THEN, that's when The Darkhold's effects starts showing. Her once innocent thoughts of seeing her sons again go dark as her want for her family back grows much more selfish, more dark you can say. all the rationality in her thoughts slowly goes away as the darkhold starts corrupting her, that she'll never have her children UNLESS she takes America's powers. That's what should've been Wanda's arc in Multiverse Of Madness in my opinion.
yeah that sounds more interesting and believable to me than the plot for MOM
They should've stuck to the original plan for this movie and have her turn to darkness foreshadowed at the end for a future movie but Michael Waldron stepped in and ruined it
Imagine all of it could have been avoided if she took therapy
This sounds really interesting. I suggest you try writing. Might have a knack for it
That would have been interesting to see. On a side note, that username tho...
I'm getting to a point where I feel like I'm not allowed to be excited for anything. Because everything I enjoy ends up ruined.
Indeed, this is the world, not everlasting, everything has its time,
relatable man:(
Thats how reality works. Cheer up though, when this happens, people who actually do know what theyre doing actually have an incentive to compete against Marvel and make that sweet sweet money. We still have the DCEU and still some hope that they can make a great movie. Or maybe another form of competition.
@@barnacleboi2595 I gave up on DC after justice league. And I don't read either companies' comics anymore either.
@@heavy5013 I wouldnt take it that personally. Ill be waiting for if DC or Marvel finally gets their shit together for at least a decent movie. If not, I got The Boys and Invincible.
I've watched quite a few video essays about phase four, but this one is the best one I've come across. It's not snarky or insulting, it's just quietly analytical, fair, and thoughtful. I really appreciated this video, thank you!!:)
Regarding the MCU being too big, it seems that it's falling down the same path Star Wars has. Undisciplined and lacking a unified vision. Hence the multiple writers and contradictory elements that the audience are forced to accept as existing in the same universe. Any attempt to intervene and resolve the contradictions involves pumping the brakes on this mad ride, something that Disney doesn't want as it will involve loss of money.
When the avengers or characters had actual convos that felt “human” I guess it the word, that’s what I liked about the MCU. How good the acting, role, and story was for each movie. Phase 4 is clearly the worst phase out of all so far. I really hope Disney acknowledges & listens to us by letting Marvel work on their movies like before.
Probably not, these cheap thrill rides are very successful as with Thor love and thunder if it makes them the most money that’s what Disney cares about,it’s a sad truth but it is the truth
@@wveh. the new movies aren’t even that successful they’re average at best financially
@@Deathmare235 when compared to other four Thor movies that took themselves seriously it grossed the highest
@@wveh. the other Thor movies sucked except for ragnarok
@@Deathmare235 what? That goes entirely against the creator we’re commenting ons argument, it was meant to set the ground work and tell a dramatic story of retribution so what the budget wasn’t stupid amounts of money and there wasn’t much humor, it was meant to be dramatic not some comedy show
As a long-time comic book reader and fan, I have to tell you, you've described the Marvel comic universe as a whole. It's not just limited to the MCU.
This. Years ago I dreamed for the day that we would have tv shows and movies referencing each other and giving cameos to the other, so it would truly feel like the comics huge universe. Now I see why that was a mistake. It's just too much to adapt and they want to put as much of it to screen as they can before the cow dies.
I am actually so glad this video is almost at 1 million views hopefully more and more people will wake up.
One thing that really rubbed me the wrong way was the whole 'Infinity Conez' thing, because it would only be remotely funny from the audience's perspective. Like, for the population of Earth, the gauntlet represents a very recent tragedy that occurred. It messed up the world something fierce and was traumatizing for many. It would be like opening a shop after WW2 in Hiroshima called 'The Bomb' with the fat man nuclear bomb used as artwork on the front of the restaurant.
Contrast this with No Way Home. In this, they didn't have Tobey and Andrew's spidermen making jokes every 5 minutes about their timelines, they were just people, that's all. Andrew's Peter felt more saddened with his MJ's death and sort of seems like he envy's Tom's Peter for his MJ being alive. It gave us a sense of depth to them, like they weren't just carbon copies, and instead were real people that went through real trauma. While there are jokes cracked from time to time, they don't occur in emotional moments, or make fun of things that are meant to be serious events in the story.
So true!
And Spider man would be the character to crack jokes more often than the rest, which is why the other MCU characters all being comedians broke it for me.
Stuff like that is amazing. When Andrew couldn’t save mj as a kid it legit traumatized me cause I was so young so seeing him save Toby’s mj in theater was the best moment I’ve ever seen in a movie.
Very good point. You can feel when a movie is noy respecting the characters or the audience, and those kind of jokes are really saying "hey you know that whole emotional and powerful thing you felt for those characters ? Let me turn it into a JOKE. It's heartbreaking.
PS : Andrew's Peter haven't met his MJ yet, the woman he loved and lost was Gwen Stacy.
Well the Infinity Stones were also what brought everybody back, so there’s a chance that some people are choosing to focus on that and celebrate the Avengers’ victory, and the fact that everyone is alive again. But I’m sure that there are many people in-universe who agree with your statement and avoid anything related to the Stones.
This is great man! It’s so disappointing to see what the MCU has become
Hey hope your doing okay I love your videos
just watched Love and Thunder!dang it was a let down!a new director should take over at least 2 movies, to bring back the doom and gloom feel, and not so many cameos please!
when I heard disney had bought marvel, I knew soon the franchise would go on a downward spiral
In my opinion, the MCU has definitely improved and even though, some of the movies and shows weren't that good, I never HATED them. I genuinely enjoyed watching phase 4. And even though, it didn't have movies like Endgame or Thor Ragnarok, I still enjoyed watching it very much. And even if the MCU has become bad, it'll only stay like this temporarily. Who knows? Maybe they'll start making great movies again. So maybe don't underestimate them too much. The more you hate on them, the worse their movies and shows will become so maybe try supporting them a little. Like Age of Ultron, People hated that movie but guess what, Marvel came back with Infinity War and Endgame.
Because of "Pissney" (Disney)
I had an intuition just after Endgame that "It's only going to go down from here". So I avoided Phase 4 hoping to hear buzz and praise around the internet that would change my mind, but all I saw were mix muddy water emotions. You pointed out exactly what I was worried would happen. I was worried Marvel would sacrifice it's dramatic movements to lean more into shock and comedy. I was worried Marvel would get addicted to the high of cameos and start over relying on them. I was worried that the hype and positive fandom would make Marvel more lazy with scripts and plot because the fans would buy tickets anyways. I was worried they would too amped up by the success and try to push out too much content. Every single one of my worries seem to have come to fruition.
I don't think the MCU needed to "end" after end game, but they definitely needed to make sure that the movies, shows, and their characters they were setting up for Phase 4 were treated with the same love and respect as the previous phases. Captain Marvel being the way that it was, was the first bad omen.
I agree completely, im so shocked that there wasn't enough critical feedback from anyone in the whole chain of order at marvel. There were some bad films in earlier phases but the quality remained consistently good up until phase 4. Was there really nobody to critically approach these projects and improve the finished product?
My thought exactly 🤣
Endgame was pure dogshit. They ruined
Thor.
Same
You missed spider man no way home then?
I’ve always had a hard time finishing tv shows that I really like because I hate endings. I always wished the shows would go on longer because I was so attached to the characters and the vibe of the show. But what phase 4 of the MCU has taught me is that endings are what makes things beautiful. If they had just finished off the MCU with endgame or maybe 1-2nother movies to tie up lose ends, that would have been soooo much better.
Exactly ! I wanted to make an ongoing cartoon for ppl but its best to create well rounded stories that have fulfilling endings, if there isnt anymore you have to continue a decent chapter at least
I love it how more and more people are coming out with this thought .... and I was here thinking, am all alone, just making my friends happy by acting being excited about the phase 4.
I agree, you're not alone
I mean, nothing tops Endgame and I can see they try to innovate - which is always good, but it will take several failures to reach something that will be accepted after everybody has the expectations of the Endgame.
I love Taika's series "What we do in the shadows", it has got me falling off the chair laughing. I can see why they chose him to direct this, there were even some jokes from WWDITS in Thor. But...it somehow doesn't click well.
At the end oc the day, they still try. They still give us content, and one day, there will be something that clicks, or it'll slowly burn out and we'll be left with Endgame as THE best movie of the franchise.
imagine if all of your friends were trying to make each other happy by acting excited about phase 4
@@weffigu283 It turns out that what we were pretending to be excited about was our friends allll alonnng. :)
@@leisska5407 you mean nothing tops infinity war. Endgame was good, but Infinity War is the best the MCU has and will create ever.
thor was the first movie i watched in camrecording in the last decade . it was that bad
Everything from phase 1 to 3 made sense. Every movie had a point and was all connected without marvel coming out and saying it was. The characters had interactions and finale (endgame) brought all that together. Thor in his new movie does take himself, those around him and his dark past seriously. It’s just made into a joke, all of them.
That already happened in Thor Ragnarok tbf
@@oa-san53 Ragnarok was delivered beautifully, it shows how Thor really copes from his losses, through Infinity War. L&T was shit, and i'm glad i never watch that movie.
edit: typo
Me when I lie
@@shiberu_7s how can u have an opinion on L&T when u haven’t watched it? That makes absolutely no sense at all.
@@ihaveakirbyobessesion2617 Prove it or gtfo.
I used to be a die hard MCU fan and would love every movie that came out with few exceptions. I think I can proudly say that the quality of this series dipped completely after Endgame. Almost every other product they put out except No Way Home, Loki, Shang Chi, and to some extent Moon Knight in my opinion has either been average to mediocre at best. If this keeps up, they’re going to be digging themselves into a hole so deep that they won’t be able to get themselves out of their mediocrity.
I stopped watching marvel movies after watching Shang Chi. It's a meh movie. Too much forced comedy in there.
Imo, other than Moon Knight, the rest of the TV series were pretty meh, if not downright a snore fest.
I completely agree. Side note: Eternals could have been a good show if done right, but instead was a rushed movie, which is too bad.
I didn't care for Shang-Chi. There was no hype for it at all and the comedy feels so incredibly forced. No Way Home was the last movie I liked from Marvel, WandaVision, Loki and FatWS being the only series' I liked as of now. Not only that, but their CGI and effort into making a "realistic fantasy" environment has gone to absolute shit.
You were a mcu fan not a marvel fan
Can't believe I gotta start accepting that there might be no turning back from what phase 4's inconsistencies has done to the MCU. I always thought a couple good decisions at some point in the future might turn things around but now I'm not so sure because it is highly unlikely that the final say in any future project will prioritize world building and character arcs over instant entertainment value. Disney is butchering the MCU with its extremely narrow minded approach.
What you're seeing here is the same issue that occurs in the comic books. When you have too many titles, too many writers, over too many years - you get a dissonance in canon. Individuals and groups change in ways that are inconsistent or contradictory, and it becomes too much for audiences. The quality of the product is reduced to meet a perceived supply of quantity that ends up underperforming because the customer base atrophies. On top of that, bad political and personal agendas cause additional deterioration of the worth of the product. So we see things like self-inserts, fundamental character changes, and low-caliber stories. We've seen that happen before in the comic industry bust in the 90s and we'll likely see another one soon in that already diminished industry. And unfortunately that's starting to happen with the MCU. Disney wants quantity over quality, and has an agenda to push, while trying to make money. It's a gamble they still think is paying off.
100% 4000 comics Starlin reader in the 70's Warlock Thanos etc.
Gave up Marvel in the late 90's events went back at Marvel Now Secret Invasion era and left with All New All Different All Woke...might go back for some Aaron Gillen Hickman arcs
The comic are 85% trash in general or are too much stupid with the scale
@@souventudubanned After the trash 90s they sorta made it at least bearable in the 2000s, yes good Marvel comics ended in 2000s
I still enjoy comics that aren't canon to the main 616 continuity, but the main 616, eh... Sort of a mess
They tried to make it "woke" to feel like it's supposed to belong in the current readers but it made it worse, for all those "reality altering reboots", the 2000s era were suprisingly ok, but this All New All Different is where true Marvel comics end...
@@tommygun4552 Yeah 100%
"All New All Different" was the end really for...the constant events ruining your favorite titles and arcs and then hiring all the talentless woke retards.
The amanat crowd
I see the real plan here being that after the exit of Iron Man, Captain America and Black Widow from most likely any more movies, Disneys aim is to integrate a new sort of avengers - slowly either being mentored by former characters (ie. America Chavez By Doctor Strange) or just by destroying the old characters (ie. thor) - people will get bored of just seeing the same characters recycled so they bring in a new generation - however, this evidently has not been executed well - Wanda Maximoffs story is so confusing for fans that no one can really appreciate what it does as it's quite poorly executed. Loki and other spin offs also seem to have no real purpose and are just there to get money and really do very little but distract from the main film. It's like they're trying to remake the avengers using a poorly connected group of unheard of characters that seem either entirely unrealistic or just insanely stupid or overpowered. The best example of this is Multiverse of madness - the plot is semi coherent and America Chavez could be an amazing character, but she just doesn't work - she's designed as a character to be overly relatable to the point that she just seems like a walking exclusivity add for marvel, her powers make no sense and for a character that's really supposed to just be a kid - she comes off as way to competent in absurd situations. Guardians of the Galaxy is how good character introduction works - the characters seem real with actual experiences and lives that don't seem impossible. They integrate slowly and in a well written way with the MCU - rocket and Thors character arcs insanely good compared to some of the newer characters who just appear and instantly know and are trusted by other characters - like in Hawkeye with the introduction of the kid who's supposed to be insanely skilled but is so unmemorable that i can't even remember her name. Marvel needs to work as a single linear franchise with the occasional branch off that reconnects with the main plot well and quickly, imstead of having 10-20 plots that can't flow coherently, this new integration of characters could work well if they didn't do so many at once, if it was Dr Stranges storyline (so anyone connected to him or the temple or anything like that, then after that's nearing completion they build another story line like in Thor LAT or Loki or anything like that - it'd build up in a way that people would understand and enjoy, it'd maybe result in some characters feeling rushed as I'd assume they'd try to create movies at the same rate as currently, so they'd be making multiple from the same Saga (ie. Dr strange) at the same time instead of doing it one by one. They could theoretically get the same amount of characters being created as they currently are but they'd actually be well developed as the focus is on one Saga or character arc and not 15 at once.
Yeah, it's pretty clear they're working to bring in the failed lineup of Marvel characters from around 2010, the diverse replacements for their flagship names. Ironman replaced by Ironheart, Hawkeye replaced by that one girl, Sam as Captain America, etc etc.
But y r u writing an essay??🧐🧐
Ain't nobody reading this lol
They really screwed with the 2 characters who would actually make sense to keep for generations when they live for thousands of years and i think at least Tom has sxpressed interest in continuing to play the character for a long time if they'll let him.
They did this to Star Wars, so I am not surprised
Phase 4 has the same amount of content in phase 3 but phase 3 took 5 years to finish! It’s too much all at once. And the worst part is that most of that stuff is mid. Other than Shang Chi and NWH everything has been immensely mid
Actually 4 years since Phase 4 was supposed to begin with TFATWS in 2020, but I think you know what happened
@@elitronprime7322 but they’re doing the same thing with 5, two years with a crapload of stuff and phase 6 ending in 2026 two phases in 4 years! That’s bonkers
@@beastyboy101bo yeah ridiculous lol
⁰
I actually don’t think they’ve “fallen off”. They’ve been like candy and like all sweets you can only eat it for so long before you get sick
On top of that. There's just a huge trend in general involving a "deconstruction" of our heroes by turning them either bitter, corrupt or suddenly incompetent. You've seen it with Skywalker, Han Solo, Strange, Thor, almost Loci and many more. At least it's passed as a deconstruction, but it isn't really, it's a bitter and cynical look at the characters that inspired us with no real added depth.
There's something sinister going on behind the curtains
Kevin feigie said Marvel would become more inclusive after endgame n there would be more women than men.
If that was their direction, I wouldn't mind. But shitting on the already established male characters, making them idiots just for spite like the later seasons of G.O.T is why the anger from fans will keep growing n the loyalty we had for marvel will die a natural death
@@josephbassey1501 right man
"Deconstruction" is indeed a bitter and cynical look at the characters that inspire people and have no real character depth whatsoever.
With Luke it makes sense considering he really messed up with Ben, everything else is completely unnecessary
Hmmm what do all those have in common? DISNEY
Earth’s Mightiest Heroes had an amazing story. I was so sad for it to get canceled before season 3 with all the character development and plots that were set up
For real. That show is what got me into Marvel. Then they replaced it with Assemble, and boy did that show stink.
@@markwilson4686 Assemble had some great ideas, I just think the pace was too fast
@@HeyOzzy24 true. The reason though it sucked cause the lead guy over it, and I think he was the head of Men In Action at the time, didn't think kids cartoons need to be intelligent or have a cohesive plot. Basically he's philosophy of treating the audience dumb is what made emh the better show. But agree Assemble had potential, sadly it wasn't allowed to be more than a typical Saturday morning cartoon.
It was really quite good, and there was no reason to end it except marvel trying to make everything fit their movies
The animated show. Yes, that was *THE LAST OF THE MOHICANS* of great awesome Marvel shows in the same vein as XMEN:TAS & SPIDER-MAN:TAS
I think this has all to do with the writing and lack of overarching narrative connection relative to the amount of content we’re expected to watch. Phase 4 had all the momentum from the previous phases and goodwill from the last few movies in Phase 3 that it seemed like it was bound to be an easy transition to the multiverse saga, which by all accounts was initially off to a great start, but the writing in Phase 4 just kept introducing new people and concepts and stakes but lacked any sort of in-universe follow through or internal payoff except for No Way Home. The previous phases we able to do a lot more with a lot less.
That said, I can’t help but notice that Raimi/Waldren didn’t watch Wandavision and Waititi didn’t care for the Thor comics. Maybe choosing directors who respect the canon and/or appreciate the source materials might help Phase 4 get out of the mid pile.
Lopez po over. 9l o) is] 9 m zip. O
I love the phase 1 movies the best because they weren't completely bogged down by the interconnecting storylines yet
I swear, when the idea of Multiverse came to the MCU, I was scared for this universe to get boring fast. The uniqueness of MCU always lied in being grounded in reality. The Multiverse took that away and made it worse by making the whole universe like a living comic book. Its not the same anymore. They are expanding it too much that viewers will just get bored of trying to get every detail. More focus is on the workings of universe than the characters themselves. At least, I am happy that the Avengers had a good end to their stories.
I hope maybe after this Multiverse stuff is done with, we can go back to the grounded stuff with Spider Man and Deadpool.
Spider man no way home was pretty good imo.
Comic book feel is the best way to describe the new Marvel movies honestly
If they mess deadpool 3 up I swear I will never watch another new marvel movie again
It’s by far my favourite movie and I’m scared I’m going to watch it fall apart with deadpool3
The idea of using the multiverse is to milk more for less. Or fool more for less effort.
Dr strange multiverse was stupid with Wanda being the main villian. They should've took heroes from universes that were actually movies like wolverine, Tobeys spiderman, ghost rider, silver surfer or something like that. Or if they are going to introduce multiverse heroes atleast don't kill all of them off in the same movie like wow
3:33 Thanks for saying this by the way. It is very annoying that whenever a movie goes wrong it is mostly if not always blamed on the studio instead of the director. It is refreshing to see someone blame the director rather then the studio.
I mean it’s both
the original MCU movies have a very special place in my heart, for they were what brought my sister and I close when we didn't get along well, now we're inseparable. plus, they held me up while i was going through a difficult time; so it hurts to see what's become of it.
MoM disappointed me so much that i refused to watch LaT in fear it would do the same…looks like i dodged a bullet. Spiderman and WandaVision are the only good things in phase 4, and i sincerely hope Marvel re-evaluates their decisions, because their content has become a massive sh*t show.
yeah i am not loving phase four. i do think that loki also did a good job of having an interesting plot without getting too weird, unlike MoM or the new Thor
Well tbh Loki was pretty good too.
I liked Falcon and the Winter Soilder too but that's just me I guess.
“They’ll never know what you sacrificed for them” 🙄
@Santosh Kumar
Nah Falcon and the Wintersoldier could have been better.
It had its good points but the way it basically just made Bucky into Falcon’s side kick was irritating. It was like they just didn’t want Bucky overshadowing or outperforming Falcon.
The Biggest gripe I had though was the Falcon & Bucky VS Walker fight. That fight should have been straight up Carried by Bucky, beating Walker should have been his moment. It was made obvious that Bucky was incredibly disappointed that Sam gave away the shield and that it ended up with Walker.
He should have destroyed Walker to ram home the point to Walker that being Cap isn’t about being a super soldier and that wether he had the serum or not had nothing to do with him being a suitable Cap. Spurring Walker to make his own shield and lead him to do what he ended up going on to do. The fight didn’t need to be a 50/50 team effort between Sam and Bucky and the fact Sam was at all able to help or do anything was ridiculous. He’s a regular dude with Metal wings, in Wintersoldier Bucky literally plucked his wings off like he was an insect and he couldn’t touch Bucky, that’s how out of his depth he should have been in a direct fight against Walker. But no somehow he took hits from and angry Walker and was able to keep going. It was just silly. He should have been there for the start but ends up KO’ed by Walker and then Bucky beats Walker takes back the shield and wrestles with wether or not he gives Sam back the shield after he originally gave it away or just holds onto it himself. With him ending up giving it to Sam and trusting Steve’s judgement after all.
This would have been a better moment And wouldn’t matter if Falcon takes a backseat for the moment since he gets plenty of shine later and the whole point about Sam’s Cap is he’s not supposed to be Steve, he’s not a supersoldier and isn’t supposed to be charging in headfirst against opponents he can’t beat. He was chosen because he was a good man with the same ideals and attitude as Steve and so would be a great leader and Captain America.
Imagine unironically saying that Endgame was a serious movie and it valued its characters. And then being surprised that MCU turned into a joke. It's been a joke since at least 2017.
It certainly appears that they’ve lost their way, at least temporarily. Previous phases showcased strong characters that we cared about in enjoyable, broadly standalone movies that highlighted a path towards an overall finale. This latest batch- though I don’t think all are ‘bad’ movies- don’t suggest the same quality of script, the same planning or attention to detail. Love and Thunder annoyed me greatly. A truly terrible movie that simply does not fit in terms of plot or overall vibe at all. I’m still hopeful they’ll get back on track soon.
Doctor Strange was my favorite marvel character since I saw his movie. I really enjoyed that movie because of how it slowed down in the middle and took TIME to explain magic, and explore Strange's arc. I was so hyped for Doctor Strange 2, but I was utterly disappointed. You can hardly call it a sequel to Dr Strange! It carries NONE of the concepts over, unless they're gags or references. Mordo was set up as such an interesting and believable villian only to be reduced to a throwaway line (Strange saying to Other Mordo "you dedicated your life to killing me") all that setup for a THROWAWAY LINE?
I'd also argue that DSMOM did assasinate his character. He lost all ties to his old life for a reason. His whole shtick in Infinty War was "I'm not afraid to let you die for the greater good" which makes sense and allows for him to orchestrate the events of Endgame without getting caught up on the sacrifice. You know, for the greater good. DSMOM completely flips him around, having him follow around America for the whole film as Wanda kills unknown numbers of people to get to her. Not to be dark, but I think not saving America would have been for the greater good. He essentially sacrificed Tony for the greater good in EG, so what changed?
Nothing, aside the fact Marvel wanted a new character.
The film is too fast, too much, too focused on other characters. It's a sequel to the Marvel continuation, but it's not a sequel to Doctor Strange.
No it was part of strange's character development to save America, because the film was going to have scenes of his sister's backstory but they didn't made to final cut when America came close to strange he started to have feelings for her like she is his sister, even this idea was proposed "was everything happened endgame was it necessary to happen" by his old doctor friend indirectly saying was all the sacrifices were necessary even in no way home he thought that deaths of spiderman villains in the grand calculus of multiverse their death mean more that their lives but peter proved him wrong by turning them into good and sacrifices can be avoided, seems he took motivation from him in MOM, defender strange also tried to do same at the start of the film bit in which he failed, so 616 strange learnt from all of this lessons and decided to save America, but many people weren't able to spot his character development in the movie because the film itself don't show it properly, his arc gets overshadowed by wanda's arc and camoes and short runtime.
I've been a diehard Marvel fan for the past decade or so and it just breaks my heart to see my favourite characters being turned into jokes. At this point I don't even care about any of the stuff they're putting out. She-Hulk was the absolute rock bottom (or is it?).
Safe to say I'm pretty much done with Marvel. Sad to see a franchise I grew up with is now being ruined by Disney.
I'm turning to Indian cinema now and movies like RRR, Top Gun, KGF 2 etc have made me appreciate good cinema again.
Hulk and spiderman my favourite never liked anyone else
Or is it?
As in will it get better?
Or will there be a worse show from marvel?
Try to watch something that isnt a blockbuster, something that makes you think
go touch some grass bro
Do you want to know what the nail of the coffin is? When they announced Dare Devil Born Again.
It will not even be R Rated, which means it will be another complete bullsh joke!
For all those who were against Serious Thor, especially in dark world and age of ultron hope you're happy with Silly Thor
I still can't get over the children scene, So CRINGE!
If Thor can transfer his powers to anyone, why didn't he do it in Endgame?
I’m saying
I think cuz of Zeus lighting bolt, but still they kids scene was the only part of the movie I actually hated.
I completely agree. And honestly, I’m gonna go back and think real hard about what I think of the first 3 phases and maybe even do some rewatches. Watching this video really got me thinking. I haven’t seen Love and Thunder, but I totally agree that Dr. Strange and the MoM concept could’ve been explored with way more detail (and with a better villain) while ALSO having Dr. Strange himself not be a stagnant character. Thinking back to movies like Winter Soldier, I almost feel like I’ve been brainwashed against Marvel purely due to their recent output because a movie like that was amazing, had incredible stakes, such good characters, a great twist, etc. I’ve been doubting the MCU and I think phase 4 (most of it at least) is to blame.
🙏🙏 yess
Or actually just watch real cinema and not waste your time rewatching these Fast Food Movies.
@@VictorELayne77 you know it’s possible to do both right?🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯
@@VictorELayne77 lol you can do both instead of telling people what to watch my boi not everyone is expecting citizen Kane watching these movies and that doesn’t make them any less of a film imo
Actually, bad post to make that argument because "Winter Soldier" was pretty much the closest thing Marvel did to what would be called a regular drama. I mean, they might as well called Shield the CIA and FBI. Collecting data to off people is something that IS reality, just not in this way....yet. The film itself is fairly close to Three Days of the Condor, just with a protagonist who is stronger. When people shit on marvel its BECAUSE there were movies like Winter Soldier or Iron Man 2 or Civil War or the first Avengers. A bad movie is a bad movie whether its a superhero movie, comedy, or drama. Something is not pablum because of its genre but because of its writing. If there is little that is new to explore, then it will be done by rote. That explains MOST movies, and almost ALL of television. It is there just to keep you distracted from worlds events.
Those movies I mention have very real world themes. Once space got introduced then it kind of turned into childrens movies. Like comic books the assumption is that people grow out of them so you need the younger audience.
Frankly I'd be interested to know what some people think are 'real movies' because lets see, comedies are supposedly for idiots, and science fiction and fantasy was always said to be for those too stupid to comprehend real world dramas. Which leaves....what exactly? Keeping in mind also that for a long time the reproach from adults about ALL movies was "what are you, a child, read a goddam book". So now that we've erased ALL celluloid as nothing more than eye distractions I guess we all go read The Brothers Karamazov? (PS, y ou should read it, its a classic).
Honestly Shang Chi was pretty solid. Excellent fighting choreo, but with a backstories to back-up why the fighting was so good and why it was happening. Story arc for the main character where he was trying to decide whether he was a murderer like his father or not, but again they haven't merged it well with the phase 4 storyline apart from the odd cameos as you mentioned. Dr Strange 2 and especially Love and Thunder were so boring, apart from some moments that it was actually sad.
Yes, I completely agree, Shang-Chi was SO good, my favorite movie thus far in phase 4, I'm not looking forward to how they butcher adding them to the main storyline
It was a good film but i definetly missed a single drop of Blood at least in the hola movie, the literally went to war with sticks nor swords or knives
Shang Chi was is my 2nd Favorite behind spiderman nwh
shang chi is still only that good relative to the other phase 4 movies. I enjoyed the action, but i figured out the whole story like 15 minutes into it. way too cliche and predictable, but definitely better than thor 4 and multiverse of madness
Shang-Chi was a breathe of fresh air. Easily one of the best of the entire MCU imo but I was also incredibly disappointed with MoM. I was so excited for it too. Even NWH was a bit forced but it still does well due to the deep connection we have to Tobey and Andrew.
Infinity War and Endgame "valued the characters first?" Yeah, the characters of Hulk and Thor were treated great in those movies.
I loved many of the movies from Iron Man to Endgame, I spent some great quality time with my father watching these movies and getting hyped for them, but as soon as Endgame was over, I said "thank you, Marvel, but good bye."
It was a nice experience, I won't deny that, but it didn't feel the same, so I preferred to treasure the good times and avoid what could tarnish the memories I have.
So true. I wished i stuck with that principle which i did initially. But my movie group and my girlfriend kept pulling me back in and i hated it cuz now its ruined those memories of these beloved characters.
My current state with the MCU is: “I’m not watching 24 movies and 80 episodes of X series in order to understand Dr Strange’s left testy”
It feels more like a chore than movies and I’m satisfied with the events up to end game. The rest, I haven’t watched tbh because I don’t really care about them
This is what everyone was asking for, connectivity of this exact kind between stories. People don't know what they want. The capeshit remains capeshit.
One could say this in a gaming analogy. The Infinity Saga is like that one game that made good use of its time and respected the player's time. Giving them a shorter but higher quality experience that they may wanna come back to experience again. While the Multiverse Saga is like a Ubisoft game where it's super big, but most of the content is mediocre at best, making it really difficult to suffer through the experience just to get what little good there truly is.
Quality will always outperform quantity when there's a good balance of it. Infinity Saga mostly understood this as almost every film was necessary to fully understand the context of Infinity War and End game. And while that's there for the Multiverse Saga, the quality clearly took a nose-dive in favor of quantity. Ultimately being a waste of time.
It was a great build up tho
@@MeansofIntrigue The actual problem is that they made the characters completely inconsistent. It feels like the writers don't write the story about the characters but change the characters to to fit the story.
Wanda and Thor aren't the only ones. For example, they made Loki into a super good guy because the fans liked him, even though it doesn't actually fit his personality.
The characters were always a bit inconsistent between movies, likely because different movies had different teams working on them and thus usually a slightly different tone & style. But this really got out of hand over the last few years, especially when they started with the shows. In the past it was possible to have a general idea of the characters' personalities even if you skipped some movies they appeared in but nowadays they feel erratic and inconsistent even if you've watched everything.
@@MeansofIntrigue I don’t think it’s about people and whether they know what they want. It’s that the execution of what people wanted is mediocre and doesn’t feel right.
I wasn’t sure but I’m starting to think it’s more than just me that felt like things have been off a little post Endgame.
I've expected this downfall since Endgame. It's a tough act to follow, and Disney is failing to do so.
The series was always a joke. A few good movies doesn't mean it was always 10/10
Multiverse of Madness hurt me so much as a big Wandavision fan. I adored Wanda's character in that show and MOM really made her irredeemable. It completely ruined the best thing post-Endgame for me and killed any interest I had for phase 5, which I was fairly excited about after Wandavision. Some were wondering if she was going to be the new face of the Avengers, but I hope they never put her in a serious position of power and decision making again after that. I feel like MOM was made solely for fanservice and to establish the X-Men and the Fantastic 4 into the MCU.
No Way Home is also pretty theme park ride-esque.
- They betray established character traits to make the premise happen-Strange and Parker deciding to do the multiverse spell knowing the potential consequences was just asinine, especially without other approaches being taken first.
- Aunt May is used purely as the hot aunt comic relief throughout other films and then suddenly she’s given compassionate traits and a lesson to teach Peter so she can die and have an impact + a reason to give fans feels when the other Peters show up. May’s death felt cheap, and unearned.
- The best plot points were from the Sony Spider-Man films and the sheer abundance of cameos with beloved actors and performances is what really sold it. It’s really fun seeing all those characters together on screen. A great theme park ride, but it felt like in ‘getting there’ they did so very lazily as if someone said, “who cares how in the plot it happens. People will pay money to see it.” And I just don’t really feel the desire to see it in its entirety again.
Aunt May is simply MCU accepting they were making a mistake with her and fixed her
How are they going to improve without doing that? The only way to grow is to learn so the point u make there is just garbage
and you proceed to ignore everything great about the movie. brother
Yep, I didn't connect with it much too. I was just happy to see my favourite Spiderman, Toby Maguire, in action again.
Thought MOM was much better than No Way Home.
@@controlcon no pretty sure they put it in there. The other spideys’ appearances and villains were what was great, but the writing was pretty bad overall.
Earth’s Mightiest Heroes was great and had stories and characters I was previously excited to see in the MCU like Secret Invasion and Kang but there’s probably no way they can make that work nearly as well.
Yesss AEMH is the best marvel universe until Fucking Disney took over. But Yh DC for life 💙🐐🥶
@@RebornRider03 Dc sucks dude their story and actors are fucked up
@@RebornRider03 I'm a marvel fan but now i will switch to dc the new batman movie is fucking awesome, the recent movies from mcu not that much it became a joke.
@@katsukibakugou5970 DC comics and shows were always the appeal. No one truly liked THE DCEU
@@lordraiden7397i never liked the dceu, i like the solo movies
I agree with everything said about Thor, since Ragnarok even, made all emotional moments completely emotionless, but I can't agree with the Wanda part.
The thing with wanda in this movie, is that the movie punishes you for not watching the series, so you miss the cause of her taking a city hostage, iamagining stuff and hiding within herself for comfort and rejecting reality, facing Agatha, and ending corrupted by the Darkhold. If anything it was actually awesome to see one of my favorite characters actually go all out, even if overpowered at some point.
Multiverse of madness would benefit of a bit extra run time to fix some of the pacing.
You absolutely nailed it. I was a fervent defender as well when Scorsese made his comments, but this new phase of the MCU seems to just continually push out disposable content. People watch, then promptly forget. There are no big stakes, there's not further joining threads other than the cameos.
The worst part is all this disposable content is it is homework, required reading in order to understand anything that's currently going on. If you didn't see wandavision, you had no idea what was happening in strange.
Also, every single new show/movie has a cgi saturated third act that is basically a cartoon with some Deus ex machina that solves the problem (eternals: chant and hold hands, moon knight: get big, chant and hold hands, Thor: you need love, holds fosters hand, wishes for good ending, etc). Like you, I'm losing interest quick - and that's hard and sad for me to say - I'm a die hard cap fan. But he seemed to have made it out before the downfall. And I'm ok with that.
Doctor Strange 2016 wasn't an amazing film, but I was going back through older films and man, it was so refreshing to see the protagonist outsmart the villain instead of winning a massive punch-up.
I guess there's now a public belief that "to watch a movie, you have to watch everything else" but that's not true. Most of these projects are stand alone and largely disconnected. This includes shows like Loki, Moon Knight, Ms. Marvel, Falcon and the Winter Soldier, No Way Home, Shang-Chi, Thor: Love and Thunder and Eternals...
Only Hawkeye and Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness needed "homework", and the "homework" should have already been finished. WandaVision came out in early 2021, a whole year before Doctor Strange 2 and Black Widow came out around 9 months before Hawkeye...
So yeah, this myth of "Marvel homework" has just been busted common sense...
@@XxFoguinhoxX "you don't have to do hw"
Also Sunee: "Only Hawkeye and Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness needed "homework"
yes, much common sense.
Also, you must not have watched no way home - it literally pulls from DR strange, and 2 other Spiderman franchises.
Or Thor - why is thor not king? who is Valkyrie? Who is Jane Foster? What happened to the hammer? Why are there two hammers, who is the rock guy?
There's a big difference between world building and making something that has required reading.
@@supermodestmouse I've only watched Homecoming and Far From Home. There's a difference between common sense and Medical School...
@@XxFoguinhoxX then how are you commenting about movies you haven't seen? THAT'S common sense....
Dr Strange in the Wandaverse of Sadness, Thor: Woke & Blunder 😩😖😴
Someone should give you a job for naming movies
Only problem, you need to dye your hair blue or something
And go learn some current woke phrases
@@josephbassey1501 lol 🙌👍
Couldn't have said it better!!!
I didn’t mind Multiverse of Madness that much, sure I had my issues with the movie but Thor Love and Thunder was terrible, I don’t get how they could take someone who was badass 2 movies ago (infinity War) and make him a completely joke. Also don’t even get me started on how they advertised The Guardians to be in most of the movie and they were in it for a good 10 minutes. I was actually hyped for Thor because of the Guardians and Thor dynamic but that was stripped away just like Thor’s story.
Like I said with Multiverse of Madness I had my problems with it but it is a way better movie than Thor. I can see myself rewatching the movie but I can never rewatching Thor Love and Thunder
@@matteckert7945 I'm with you 100% I haven't seen Thor yet. But I've been hearing and read similar stories. And it looks stupid just from the trailer alone. I seen comments from the director. From what he said. He doesn't even seem to like the movie as well. His own movie that he filmed. He even took out over an hour of the movie and it's still sucks. That's sad!!
I'm glad I watched this video. It was very thoughtful. I thought this was just going to be another rant about how SJWs are ruining the "M-she-u" but you surprised me. Well done. The saddest thing about Marvel's handling of Thor is that Chris Hemsworth really is a great Thor. I don't think he gets enough credit for that.
I'm so glad to see this comment, I'm not alone! It's so exhausting to see almost every youtuber rant about woke agenda ruining the MCU when it's not even the main issue and simply a symptom of growing corporatism which mostly just perpetuates antagonism against minorities by misrepresenting them. I'm glad this video didn't feature it.
@@b.h.4249 I think I agree with the first comment more, but I’m a little confused by what you mean misrepresenting them. I do agree that phase 4 has no direction, it has nothing it’s really building up too, they need to slow down with all this stuff, plan it out instead of pumping it out as fast as possible.
@@BlueTyphoon2017 The writers like to put their diverse characters in the forefront in a manner that feels more like attention-grabbing and less than simply an organic inclusion into the story. One example would be the 'girl power' scene featuring all female heroes in the final battle of Endgame.
Some portrayals are done well, like for example Kamala Khan, but others less so.
Captain Marvel, for example has a very aggressive portrayal of feminism which in itself isn't necessarily a bad thing, but in the current cultural climate inevitably drew in the hatred of many fans, especially male ones and the studio should have been aware of the reaction their portrayal would provoke. Marvel also tends to backpedal on their diversity a lot which makes their representation attempts come across as disingenuous a lot of times. In Endgame, for example Captain Marvel's complaints were brushed away with an "So what are you gonna do? Cut your hair again?". This joke only made sense out of universe and was meant to point at Captain Marvel and go "Look how self-righteous and annoying she is, doing feminist things like cutting her hair all the time". Jane Foster is killed off at the end of Love and Thunder, never to be seen again.
I think the main problem is simply that the overall writing quality of the MCU is steadily declining, meanwhile they try to include as many diverse characters as possible while also being aware that the number of people blaming these characters for the bad writing quality is increasing rapidly. They simply don't care that reactionaries draw in a growing crowd of people, convincing them that queer people and women are out to dominate society. They don't include diversity for the sake of genuine representation, but for the sake of profits often coupled with bad writing, ignoring the negative reaction from a large part of the fanbase that is directed towards the very people it's supposed to represent and support.
Agreed, thank you. I have to avoid certain channels cause i know every critic will involve anti-woke crap which is annoying and arent true reviews.
@@b.h.4249 Somehow I doubt the people that dislike what you're talking about are going to watch films and shows just to get mad at these things.
They ruined Hulk first and turned him into a pathetic joke. Did the same to Thor now.
I mean, many people (including myself) agreed with Scorsese sincethe begining because the themes and the formula was always pretty simple and repetitive, the thing is that before people were invested as a collective, but even the comics fans found them goofy in comparison to the original story lines.
Avengers Endgame was iconic despite having some little flaws and the MCU definitely ended after endgame. I bet marvel would never be able to replicate the greatness of the infinity saga and Thanos will always remain the greatest marvel villain of all time no matter how many Kang variants you bring.
Here's my shit headcanon: This is all just a fever dream.
When Thanos snapped everyone away, the surviving heroes was such in a dire state of hysteria and delusion that they started fantasizing about a different future when they came on top after the events of Infinity War. Endgame didn't happen, it was just a scenario they made up in their mind in a desperate attempt to escape from their own dystopian reality because as everyone knew, it's not easy or even possible to fix what was already done. Scott Lang was only lucky that he was saved from the snap and his quantum theory to travel back in the past is impossible because even Tony knew that building a time machine is not nearly as easy to accomplish. He didn't discovered time travel in one night, it's too convenient and eventually everybody came to the conclusion that they can't do anything but accept defeat and rebuild society.
Now here we are in phase 4, a continuation of their fever dream from longing for success. It's the reason why phase 4 is nothing short but stupidity and ridiculousness. Steve dreaming of a scenario where he get to see Peggy again, retire and give the shield to Sam and Bucky (The Falcon and the Winter Soldier), Tony dreaming that if Peter was alive he would've continued his legacy and be a better person like he'd hope to (Spiderman Far from Home and No way home), Thor envisioning a different reality where he's finally happy, cracking jokes all the time, being the savior of his culture like he used to (Thor: Love and War), Bruce fantasizing of a place where he is not the only Hulk and he can pass the ways of his powers to someone else such as his cousin (She-Hulk) and many more.
Like I said, it's a shit headcanon. But at least I've given myself a reason to why phase 4 is such an abomination.
May I adjust your headcanon just slightly? "The Fever Dream" is real, but it started at Hulk-Snap. Hulk obviously doesnt have the years of experiment and knowledge on the stones Thanos did, and the Gauntlet was an item of magic they didnt even get near to comprehend. So when Hulk-Snap happaned, it just locked their universe into a version of itself, with remnants of Hulks will, but because he was utterly unprepared to operate the stones, the Hulk-Snap essentially created this shitty, boggly, randomshit happening randomly, universe. And they have no way of learning what actually happened. They just think, everything that happened, is really, unaltered, reality.
the one way to salvage this mess is to just say everything post-endgame is non-cannon, and restart
Dude thank you! Disney is the reason so many good stories and series are being destroyed
It’s a damn shame how the quality of the writing has gone down. And those two movies are the exact examples that come to mind in what’s going on with their poorer quality. That and the formulaically rushed nature of their 6episode Tv show formats.
This video is exactly what I wanted to see. I’m half way through it and you’re hitting each emotional beat I’ve been thinking since walking out of the theater a few days ago. Although I have been skeptical of marvel movies heavily since avengers 2, I would always go see them with friends on opening night. The past few movies have been so bad but none of them got me to be as upset as thor has. They have no shame at all with killing off these characters and ruining them at the same time.
Disney has killed Pixar, Star Wars, and Marvel
From an outsider perspective on the franchise (meaning, I have watched most but not all movies and enjoyed only some of them, a couple I would consider "really good") this was always going to happen.
Hell, I am surprised it hold as long as It did. The MCU was milked dry already early on, but in that period It was engaging to see different angles of the same world.
Then It became a chore to keep up with it. You either knew the franchise, or you couldn't Watch some of the movies.
Well the problem is they are ruining the past established and beloved characters which are close to our heart .We don't care about what ever happens to new shitty characters
Yup. I used to be so excited every time a Marvel movie drop. Now I don't even care anymore. I watch them 3-4 months later whenever I have time.
Sums up my point of view from a non-american, non-comic fan perspective. In interesting lesson in state of the art world building. But a chore to keep up with, which I wanted to do first, but when 4 movies come out in a year (or more) and fans start to explain to you that you HAVE to read books and magazines to... well I have a life, family, work, career, I care about politics... ah most Americans don't care about politics they conflate it with comic's, that must be it.
@@LiveWireBT It's not even that. The worldbuilding of the MCU is just throwing more lore un to accomodate more stories. There is not a specific unifying principle to the setting, a way in which things fit together in a cohesive and logical fictional universe.
I noticed it when i saw no way home how the script could’ve been way better but i still enjoyed it then i had hopes for MoM but was disappointed as well and now thor just made me give up completely on marvel now . Going out with friends to see new marvel premieres was my favorite thing to do, and for the first time ever i fell asleep while watching a marvel movie and that was thor :/
i think what taika watiti said in an interview summed it all up. marvel told him to create another thor movie even though there is pretty much no more stories to cover.
"I am always angry" Hulk dialogue had more waight that the Whole She-Halk movie tell rhe whole story.
I remember looking forward to the second Marvel movie of the year whenever I would watch one at the cinema super hyped. After 2016 though was the beginning of the end when they released three movies in one year and you could tell the budget and effort was stretched thin with Homecoming, Ragnarok and Guardians 2. Obviously Infinity War and Endgame after were great but black panther in 2018 suffered, antman and the wasp, Captain Marvel in 2019 but far from home was fine in my opinion but wasn't great. Theres a noteable difference between pre 2016 marvel and post 2016 marvel. It's only covered up by Infinity War and Endgame. The cgi is more frequently terrible, the jokes are more silly and forced, the plot line is taken less seriously ( I always wished they made Thor Ragnarok a bit more serious and dramatic, would've been my favourite MCU film by far) and snarkiness seemed to equal 'humour' and this was used for most characters even ones that didn't fit.
Yes Captain America: Civil War was the peak of the MCU. Everything went downhill after that besides Infinity War and Endgame.
you realize homecoming was a Sony project Amy Pascal
Love and thunder was just Taika plays all characters.. egomaniac
Black Panther was great wym
@@kanyemckinney4061 very overrated
I hope you don't mind me giving my two cents. I think when it started was in Age of Ultron when they made the Hulk into a joke.
In Endgame, Thor became AL Bundy and they got to relying on jokes too much.
But, you can definitely see those flaws now, and they're getting worse. I worry about the second Black Panther movie. I hope it doesn't suffer the same fate.
Can the MCU REALLY end though?
Unless they stop making superhero films all together, I have a hard time believing it could truly “end”. What they need to do is stop rushing the material and flesh their stories out more - give us more of the quality of phase 1. Otherwise, people are going to start getting tired even more than they already are now and move on from the MCU.
The need to take like a 5 year break
I don’t know, looking back at it, Phase 1 was kind of mediocre. Iron Man and The Avengers were great movies, Captain America: The First Avenger wasn’t as great but it was still a good movie, and then Hulk, Iron Man 2 and Thor were either average or mediocre
@@kevinbarbeau can’t argue with that! I feel like a lot, if not most of marvel is pretty average honestly.
@@BlackstarSI Yeah
@@BlackstarSI
Honestly, to me a GREAT movie is one I constantly think about and discuss, years after I've watched it
I have not felt that way watching a single marvel movie
Scorc was being generous when he said theme park ride but it's more like a carnival ride.
I'm sad you didn't mention Shang Chi as good movie. Not only that it has good visuals and choreography,but it also has good writing specially Wenwu.
Edit: Okay I'm sorry I just thought he didn't said it I'm not giving attention much to the video.
he did at 7:20
He literally did what are you talking about
My dude has the attention span of a goldfish
OP is exactly the target audience for the cheap fast food level quality of phase 4 films.
Thor was honestly my favorite character. I felt he had the best character arc out if all the MCU character in my opinion. He may have not had the best 2nd movie but from losing everything to getting the redemption he needed at the end of End Game was pleasing even though they made him fat.
I love thor too, atleast did. It's painful what they did to him
making him fat was not the problem, playing it as a joke was
All the things you've said I've been telling my friends for quite some time now...I thought I was alone, and seeing this video makes me happy because I know I am not bugging out. Everything you said is right on point and I totally agree with you.
One of the best reviews I’ve seen about modern MCU. Thank you! 🏆💚