The Marvel Problem - A Very Reasonable Video Essay on Phases 1 & 2
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 มิ.ย. 2024
- Nathan explores each and every Marvel movie in Phase 1 and 2 to discuss and bring to light all the issues that were present even at the start of Marvel's "success". After 2 months of editing, scripting, rewrites, rerecords, we are SO HYPED to show you our first ever video essay focusing on the Marvel Cinematic Universe. From Iron Man to Ant Man, we take you through the years of planning, rewrites, and problems that Marvel faced creating their expansive Cinematic Universe.
Let us know in the comments what you think about Marvel. Are they falling off? Is everything bad after Endgame? Why is Age of Ultron so horrible? Let us know, we'd love to chat!
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Script written by Nathan (he did SUCH A GOOD JOB!!)
Video Edited by Marissa & Nathan
Thumbnail created by Marissa
0:00 Intro to The Marvel Problem
1:38 Marvel's History
2:47 Iron Man
6:27 The Hulk
8:42 Iron Man 2
12:34 Thor
14:51 Captain America
17:19 Avengers
21:41 Enter: Phase 2
22:11 Iron Man 3
27:44 Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.
29:22 Thor The Dark World
34:10 Captain America the Winter Soldier
39:48 Guardians of the Galaxy
43:07 Avengers Age of Ultron
54:43 Ant-Man
56:44 Summary/Subscribe/Review Crew will return in Phase 3
#movie #moviereview #marvel #marvelstudios #marvelcomics #mcu #marvelcinematicuniverse #ironman #thor #hulk #captainamerica #theavengers #avengers #guardiansofthegalaxy #antman #loki #themarvels #ageofultron #videoessay - บันเทิง
why didn’t they cast nick cage? he would’ve kidnapped the president and solved the whole avengers thing. easy.
Underrated comment!!😂
I don’t think marvel could afford the national treasure himself 😔
hey gabi is your refrigerator running
@@sharpenedaxe2mine isn’t can you please help
Least expected comment tbh
going from 23 movies in 11 years to 10 movies in 3 years is, in the words of Tony Stark, "not a great plan"
23 movies and idk how many shows in 11 years was already way too much but I guess not too many fans want to talk about that. Speaking as a fan myself btw
It's just that now it really can't go unadressed anymore, no matter how hardcore of a fan you are ig
It's not just the MCU being hit or miss. It's that the process they have employed is extremely high-risk, high-reward. This idea that they can greenlight a movie and even go into shooting with only pre-vis of action scenes and no completed script would not fly anywhere else. Marvel had made that process work more often than not in Phases 1-3, but it is a process that can only scale to a certain amount of content, and the mess of Phase 4 and all the Disney+ content showed how that falls apart at scale.
I do have to correct something you said - Favreau's script for Iron Man was not complete ... they were still writing it on set! Most other studios that aren't making a massive tentpole franchise can sign a major star without a script. They got Downey because they really needed each other, Favreau brought in Downey, Downey brought in others. But all the issues the MCU is suffering with right now are happening because this broken process of making a movie somehow worked, and Marvel learned all the wrong lessons from that success, to the point where most of their projects only have a partially finished script or loose outline of the story beats and action scenes they need.
What made the MCU work despite all of this was the connectedness of the films and how novel that was. But Marvel went from planting seeds they could harvest later, to making more deliberate connections, and those deliberate connections don't work as well with this looser production process, not to mention turning off directors who want more creative control ... as we have seen with how many directors Marvel has either lost or fired. The very things that made the MCU work at first are the things actively hurting it now.
A perfect example is Marvel rehiring Taika based on the success of Ragnarok. They didn't even have a script or plan for the movie. He basically winged it, that's how much faith they had in him to bring it home. That backfired. They had to re shoot massively and the trailer even got released late because it wasn't done and VFX wasn't done. Was a disaster. They made money based on the success of last and Taikas rep. It should have made less than the Marvels it was that bad.
The reason I never got on the MCU train was that I watched all of phase 1 and found it mostly really bad with awful villains. I'm glad someone else noticed that the problems were there in the beginnning.
Exactly, people gotta have that same attitude towards the original movies too! Critiquing The Marvels villain for being tropey isn’t warranted while literally every villain in phase 1 and 2 were just as bad
I didn’t either and I still find none mcu marvel movies more enjoyable to watch like most x-men movies except the first class ones first 3 spider-man movies and daredevil I do like the dc movies better and it this maybe an unpopular opinion but dc’s first phase or whatever they called it combined did better then mcu phase 1 combined
after Raimi Spiderman and Nolan's Dark Knight Marvel looked really bad in comparison when it comes to villains@@kevin10001
@@kevin10001bvs, suicide squad 2016 and josstice league were better than phase 1?
@@kevin10001😂😂😂😂😂😂
To be fair, Cap went against Tony in Age of Ultron because Tony already messed up AI once. He didn’t want Vision (with an infinity stone) to be like Ultron.
I am so glad the current dissatisfaction with the course Marvel has taken has led to more critical analysis of the brand like this, because trust me in the past you could not get fans to look at the problems that were popping up and evident back in phase one, and to even suggest that the first four phases weren't perfect was looked upon as heresy.
I'm still watching the video, but I'm saying it now. The biggest problem I can see with the MCU is that these movies are no longer for comic book fans, although the company still tries to pretend that they are. They are aimed at a mainstream audience that by and large have never read a comic book, and have fallen into a blandness which is not present in the comics they are butchering in adaptation, and the box-office is starting to show it. Marvel blew up because they did something fresh with a genre that audiences thought they knew, but then turned into exactly what people had always thought superhero movies were.
Solution, the MCU needs to stop with these 5 years plans and release dates and instead of pushing out rushed, first draft, by-the-book content, start making well-written, well thought out "movies".
I mean you got people who are saying Deadpool was the first marvel character to break the fourth wall and was the first wise cracking hero
When She hulk was the first fourth wall breaking marvel hero and Johnny Storm was the first wise cracking jokester and Spiderman was the first witty meta one
Not counting some of the TH-cam "superhero channels" on here who push narratives and lie to people about who was the most relevant marvel villains aka Mephisto
@@thepubknight6144 oh man, don’t even get me started on the Deadpool diehard fanboys…
its crazy cause if they just adapted doctor doom as he is in the comics into the MCU as a main villain it wouldve satisfied comic book fans and casual enjoyers
The movies were never for comic book fans to begin with, the mainstream audience was almost always the target. As for blandness if anything the MCU has gotten more unique and experimental as time went on. The low box-office is not because of poor comic adaption (the MCU was never about making super faithful adaptions), its because phase 3 distorted people's perception of the overall quality of the MCU and people saw Infinity War/Endgame as the regular standard for the movies when that's never been the case so when a movie that comes around isn't at that level of perceived quality with character that people aren't fond of the low box rating is inevitable.
Marvel blew up not because they were super creative or innovative, they blew up because they were making solid superhero movies at a time where expectations for those type of movies were rock bottom.
@@johnman8398 I disagree
Your side commentary is absolute gold
“With a element and a new chest. Made by … lasers” 😂😂😂
Dude created renewable energy in his basement and the whole world just stays the same 😭 what were they thinking!?
I am LOVING the passion Nathan has about Captain America's and Iron Man's character developments. The editing, the music, the points. Just wow, great job! Can't wait for Phase 3
HAHAHA he really rips into age of ultron here, but it’ll be nothing compared to the next phases 😈
@@The_ReviewCrew I can't wait to see Infinity War and Endgame get what they deserve!
@@The_ReviewCrew Not just the MCU. 90's had the worst bombs like The Flash TV show, Spawn and Steele movies and before that was The Hulk and Fantastic Four unreleased movie
@@The_ReviewCrew Whedon reducing Cap's character down to "HE'S OLD" when he should be physically/mentally stuck in his mid-20s (and he already cussed in his origin movie, at the very least said "hell" a couple of times)
I think people look back at the infinity saga with rose tinted glasses because they stuck the landing with infinity war and endgame. The beginning and end of a story are the two parts people usually remember the most and they succeeded and creating an ending that felt mostly satisfying and clearly resonated with the general public, despite the fact that the overall package was never top tier
Very well put! Marvel def has its highs and lows I just wish we as an audience could accept that more
They did not stick the landing with endgame! Endgame was a cash grab made possible by marvel deciding to split the story into 2 movies. The decision to end infinity war with thanos winning handicapped Endgame so severely. If you can look past the spectacle that Endgame was because it was the culmination event you'll see that it wasn't a good movie and all the narrative and story choices were pretty poor.
@@eugeneperry8347 I definitely have my own issues with endgame's narrative and i don't love it but Its effectiveness as a movie is undeniable. A+ cinemascore, both audience and critic RT score in the 90s, 4+ stars on Letterboxd, 8+ on imdb. I don't think it's amazing but clearly, it did exactly what it needed to do for the general public to fall in love with the movie so it definitely stuck the landing in the eyes of most
@@vulcan_pencil There were definitely some AMAZING ones in the middle, but as a whole package, the quality has never been consistent in my opinion.
@@eugeneperry8347 My main problem with it looking back was how much they used Captain Marvel despite her being so new to the team, it just didn't feel earned it'd be like if I threw Superman in a world with no kryptonite and finished the infinity saga with a crossover
Although I love Winter Soldier, I think its central conflict would've been more interesting without the Hydra cop-out.
It's part of Disney liberalism that every crime America's ever committed against its own people is the fault of a convenient bad actor or outside force and not the system working as intended. Operation Paperclip doesn't really exist in this continuity.
And it would have flowed beautifully into Cap's reasoning against the Accords in Civil War: "They are just people with agendas. And agendas change."
Is it any coincidence that everything you liked was up until the first Avengers movie, which was the first movie released by Disney after they bought Marvel. Everything after that was about squeezing as much revenue out of it as possible, now here we are
There is definitely movies after the first avengers that I thoroughly enjoyed! Even recently like spiderman, guardians and Loki so I wouldn’t say it’s just Disney’s fault
Uh, The Avengers was released by Paramount.
@@ShockwaveFPSStudios it was late enough in the game that Disney kept all of Paramount's logos and everything on it but Disney indeed took it over. Either way, that's splitting hairs. Whoever released it, the point is that it was Disney from then on, that's when the slow decline officially started
@@The_ReviewCrew well yeah that's what I'm saying. There was a plan in place before Disney took over that was allowed to see itself to completion before the brain rot officially set in.
@@theseanwardshow Iron Man 3 was also a Paramount movie, explain that.
I'm glad someone talks about the black widow's "monster" scene from avengers II. I hate this scene so much, but most people are treating it like a development of a character, when in reality it's awfuly misogonistic
It is. And what makes it worse is that I cannot see the Natasha we saw in Winter Soldier saying that crap about herself.
I cannot describe to you how devastated i am to learn Edgar Wright was supposed to direct Antman. Absolutely ruined my day, that would have been so amazing
I am cracking up at the Mjolnir part 😂
Wow these two are just so handsome and charismatic and funny it almost makes me want to watch a Marvel movie for the first time since 2020!
WOW thank you so much Dap!!
just a little side note with the opening shot of this video..
Can we all acknowledge how Hawkeye is the LEAST intimidating avenger to wake up pointing their weapon at you..?
You go hulk with just his body..
Iron man with his repulsors..
Cap with his shield and or STRAIGHT HANDS
Black widow with literally 2 pistols..
Also Thor with a magic boomerang lightning hammer..
And you choose the normal dude with a fuckin bow and arrow 😂
LMAOOO that is so funny
@@The_ReviewCrewgreat video though man, that shit just compelled me to point it out 😭
Finally an analysis of the MCU that isn't a nostalgia glasses one that blames Disney for everything and actually sees there were problems with the script since phase one and this was just waiting to happen once the plots got more complicated
Great to see a decent take on the MCU, it has it's problems and a good majority of the movies are just okay, but you're actually talking about what worked and didn't work instead of just writing it off as bad.
Back then, there wasn’t any attempt like this before so everyone wanted to make this happen despite the flaws. Now that comicbook movies are universal, you can’t get away with mediocre movies anymore.
Not every movie needs to be a masterpiece
I think the quality of movies have gone up in recent years. With something like Dune that can be made with half the cost but can be just as engaging, Marvel should really lay out their plans before making movies. Or better yet not tell us the plans and just make fun movies for anybody to enjoy
@@The_ReviewCrew this
@@The_ReviewCrew also if fans knew about the flaws apparently why now to choose to complain about it
lol I think my mother and I saw Iron Man 2 in the theater, and when Whiplash is on the race track she asks "wouldn't there be someone there with a gun to shoot him?" 🤣
It did seem like all the #2s in the series suffered outside the Winter Solider though.
LOL we love your mom 🤣
I appreciate the simplicity of phase 1 and 2 with all the origin films and the big crossover event. I love the first avengers movie, but I think you can at least agree that the cinematography looks tv quality compared to the other films, that’s something age of ultron at least got right. 2014 was the most exciting year for comic book movies for me, not only did we get winter soldier, but we also got an unexpected hit with the guardians. It’s also the same year my favourite comic book film came out which is X-men: Days of Future, I also love the Amazing Spider-Man 2 even with all its flaws (love to hear your thoughts on that movie). For me I miss the simple 2 movies a year approach marvel used to have because it gave each film breathing room for audiences to appreciate theses stories and characters associated with them.
Days of Future Past is a great one!! Maybe one day we’ll work on a Spider-Man breakdown video 👀
@@The_ReviewCrew I still remember when Days of Future Past came out, outside the movie theater, there was even a guy who could do makeup for girls like Mystique, that's a very precious memory, also Jennifer Lawrence was still at her prime, she was my crush (before I realized all the Harvey stuff).
Finally someone who acknowledges that the MCU was not amazing prior to phase 4 it's always been a mess
Right!! I've felt this years before the new content, it seems like people only recognize that now that the old faces are pretty much gone
@@yazminmendez6459
I love how he exposed how the MsheU isn't true
When every phase had underdeveloped male leads and villians multiple times yet they aren't calling phase 1-4 the MHeu
And it's because they're all white men and they'll never acknowledge it
But not nearly as much as it is now
i was shocked to see how few views and subscribers this video has. it’s so well done and thoughtful. as marvel fans we can enjoy the franchise while also pointing out its flaws. this far into the MCU, i think looking back at the first two phases was so important because i see so many people hating on phase 4 and 5 without realizing many of the issues we see now started back at the beginning of the MCU (myself included).
Yes! Love the insight! Phase 4 & 5 have their ups and downs just like any franchise but we’re not giving up on Marvel just yet if they keep giving us content like Loki 💚
Hearing "MCU is dead!" is pretty much comparable to "MCU is perfect!"
The MCU is what you expect from a big franchise
And the MCU will be alright
I already seen The Marvels & while it was flawed, it isn't too bad as the internet makes it out to be & it's not even going to kill the franchise & it doesn't help we just got Loki S2 & the season solidified Loki as the MCU show & one of the best MCU projects of all as well as What If S2 to close out 2023 for Marvel with Echo & Deadpool 3 the only 2024 MCU projects coming to properly space out & handle the projects
I honestly didn’t even know they made movies before Ironman 🙈🙈 the research behind this is so impressive!!! ❤
THANK YOU!! Everything before iron man is pretty old and are typically forgotten since they’re one-off movies that don’t really tie into anything else!
bruh you have to be young af if you don’t remember the spider man movies from 2000-2007. they were blockbusters.
@@deeskman1549 Spider-Man 1-2 are iconic standalone movies that deserve ALL their flowers and SM3 is chock full of meme material, the young ones dunno what they’re missing lol
How did you not know about the Toby McGuire Spider-Man movies? Why did you think everyone was so hype at mere rumors of him returning in No Way Home?
@@deeskman1549tbh I just never associated those movies with marvel
One flaw that I should point out in regards to Phase Three is that the Sokovia Accords and the fallout of the Avengers, for as game-changing as they are to the superhero world, don't really affect the later films that much until Infinity War.
Doctor Strange has nothing to do with Civil War and it's explained that the Masters of the Mystic Arts only deal with "mystical" threats and not "physical" ones, 99% of Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 is set in space, Spider-Man: Homecoming doesn't really deal with the fallout of the Avengers or the Accords much, Thor left before Civil War and only returned to Earth briefly in Ragnarok, and Black Panther only deals with T'Chaka's death.
As a side note, I know it's absurd to think that Vol. 2 and Ragnarok should be affected by the Accords and the Avengers' fallout as they both mainly take place outside of Earth, but I'm still using them to further prove my point.
Yes I’ll bring this up in my next video! Thanks for the insight
Ngl makes 0 sense to use those movies as examples Also doesn’t make sense to back this claim if you know it’s immediately contradicted.
I didn't realize Black Widow and Hulk share romantic feelings until 2019. Lol. I was disappointed with Iron Man 3; I felt like something was missing from that movie. And, I was disappointed too when I heard Edgard Wright step down as Ant-Man director, and I didn't watch it at the cinema. After you said that Ant-Man has the same vibe as Hot Fuzz? Wow... I really want to see it!!! I've watched Hot Fuzz almost a hundred times.
This was a great video essay and I am subbed. I thoroughly enjoyed the beginnings of the MCU, and really couldn’t put my finger on which felt so different as the movies went along. You’ve done a great job, encapsulating those feelings and bringing valid criticisms.
Thank you for the support! I’ve loved the MCU since the jump and it’s been so fun learning about all the behind the screen info 😁
The MCU has always been hit or miss. The only thing they had was consistency in releases. I love some MCU films, but let's be honest, most range from fine/mediocre to absolutely terrible.
If only they had Hawkeyes accuracy…. The character not the show cuz the show was a miss
@@The_ReviewCrewWhy do you say that?
Honestly replacing black widow with the wasp sounds like a great idea. I don't feel like black widow added much as a character and really made zero sense as a avenger. She's tough and a fine solution for normal humans, but she's just that, human. World ending apocalyptic threats to humanity should probably be tackled by the super heroes that are actually super powered.
By that logic, Batman shouldn't be on the JL - unless you acknowledge that his superpower is warping reality to end up winning almost every engagement.
I know it's a different universe, but it's not different enough to negate the point that who us included on a team is based purely on their fame. Babs is smarter, Cass is a better fighter, Tim is just Bruce but better in most ways, yet they only get to be center stage in Elseworlds stories. Black Widow was included because they wanted to use a femme fatale and coast off of sex appeal - she didn't really need to be written as a full character.
i’m of the opinion that a movie is allowed to be dumb fun and nothing more, and that’s what marvel movies felt like at first. but for a while now they’ve been less dumb fun and more just dumb.
thanks for breaking this down, you made it easy to see all the squeaky wheels and loose parts that existed from the beginning, and how the machine started breaking down to eventually lead to where we are now.
It's okay if you're not a fan of certain MCU films, but some criticisms, especially regarding "Age of Ultron," seem rooted in misunderstanding. The movie, despite multiple locations, is smaller and more personal. It delves into the Avengers' individual stories, introduces emotional depth, and sets the stage for "Civil War." Ultron's motivation isn't just destruction; he aims to save the world by making room for a more deserving species. Natasha's struggle isn't just that she can't have kids, she doesn't feel like she can have a normal life because of her past. Steve's doubts about Tony are valid, given the fallout from Tony's secret plan. Steve doesn't just complain; he believes the Avengers are enough to save the world without something special like Ultron.
Cap keeps being called a perfect soldier, but he constantly doesn't follow orders by his superiors.
People seem to forget what Dr. Erskine said about him in The First Avenger.....
@@stephaniewozny3852 soo, that doesn't make him the perfect soldier.
@@tootzy-the-roll ....that's.....literally what Erskine sai-
🙄
I think the reason I, personally, let so much slide with Phase 1 and 2 is that I survived the Daredevil era superhero movies. I loved Ironman (1) so much that I kept hoping that they'd catch lightning in a bottle again. So I kept watching and kept making excuses for my own disappointment. I officially left because of Civil War (excepting Thor: Ragnarok and Black Panther), but you're so very right, the problems were there since the beginning.
45:41 Yoooo dude, that long take is one of the best action scenes that's ever come out of the MCU.
It's always a bit strange. I absolutely love Thor and Captain America and really loved Thor: The Dark World. To me with the Dark World, it wasn't boring at all. It was well-paced with us getting a development of the characters and the world itself, the humor really landed with me, and I liked the characters.
Finally those who appreciate Thor: The Dark World are rising up⛈💪
I am glad someone else remembers how rough phases one and two were.
Right?! So many loved it and I respect it but I was always iffy on the first phase. But I am also someone that only owns 8 of the MCU films as I just didn't care for the others.
Definitely a diehard phase 2 fan who thinks Loki has fallen off since Dark World... you called it, damn. XD Now I have no further critiques.
Personally I think the quality of the current MCU is the same as it’s always been. Mostly fine movies with a few great movies and stinkers mixed in. The problem really is a lack of focus and an overabundance of content.
I think they can still come back with things like Loki, but they should really slow down
@@The_ReviewCrew yeah for sure. Loki was maybe my favourite thing the MCU have ever done. So there’s still some greatness left.
I don’t think marvel realized that having an interconnected universe always raises the question of oh what’s this character or that character doing right now. And if u don’t have a good answer all the movies kinda fall apart unless they’re so well acted or the story is so tight that it can be forgiven.
With the growing number of characters popping up in the mcu it would be rather silly to explain in every single movie where every other character is and why they can't come help.
@eugeneperry8347 They literally did this in Spiderman far from home. And it felt dumb when Fury was saying why other hero's can't help.
A good way to understand the 'downfall', is just watching how EXCITED Karen Gillian was to show that she actually SHAVED HER HEAD for the first Guardians movie! However there was NO WAY she was even going to consider shaving her head again for Part #3...
the first thor movie being a self discovery makes sense though, its a character not alot of people who weren't familiar with marvel would know about, and they tied it into the mythology really well, I love that film and think it is still the best one of the thor series
also you said only 1 was good in phase 1 but I count 3... I always loved iron man thor and captain america, the other 2 are genuinely tough to get through, but I genuinely loved the origin films from the start, hence my comment above.
Yeah for sure! I’d say that Thor 1 at least has an aesthetic compared to some of the later entries and it’s 10x better than thor 4! Also it introduces Loki and I’d argue that he’s the best character in all of Marvel; have you seen the new show?
@@The_ReviewCrew nah I didn't really care for season 1 and all the other shows are kinda meh so I didn't bother, and I'd say ragnorak was also kind of a let down, it was funny and I enjoyed it, but the first one gave off a mythical wondrous vibe and seeing Thor act in a modern day setting felt charming, we were like Jane being wowed by all the magical mystical stuff he is used to as a day to day... ragnorak felt more like a guardians of the galaxy film crossed with planet hulk, so all the wonder is gone, even the dark world had that with the introduction of the dark elves and the history of the ether...
@@TheLankieMidget loki is mindblowing. give it a chance
Just like Star Wars and James Bond, it's always had highs and lows. On one hand you can't really hold it to a standard, on the other hand they set their own high bar and should have stayed there instead of thinning out the brand.
There were definitely problems, especially Thor in Phase 1 and 2 but it was definitely exacerbated in Phase 4. But with Loki and GOTG 3 it seems like things are looking up a little
Yes! Gotg 3 and Loki are among some of the best marvel content! I love when they’re able to elaborate their stories and be creative instead of just planning for the next avengers movie 😍
@@The_ReviewCrew For sure, obviously there has been some problems like secret invasion and ant-man but even though antman was not the best, it connected perfectly to the events of Loki s2 and I really appreciated that
Loved Kang in antman! Even if there are bad movies here and there, I still have hope for the MCU
Loki basically nuked the MCU’s continuity by making it so every character pretty much didn’t have free will, and it makes it so that every flaw with the writing prior to Loki could be lazily explained away with “oh but Kang did it”.
@@Slender_Man_186 Huh??? Did you watch Season 2 because that's NOT what happened.
Wow😮!! Jemanny Renner wanted OUT of the Hawkeye role?? The MCU should had granted him his wish ,which turned out to be a wish forfilled later on in real life. The phases "Careful of What U Asked For ,It Just Might Happen!!"
They should have rebooted EVERYTHING after Endgame. At that point, they had every IP except for Hulk and Spider-Man
31:06. That’s incredibly racist dude. Just because he’s a rock monster doesn’t mean he’s Korg’s dad
The Whole MCU UNIVERSE should had started off with The Master of Evil . I believed the MCU got arrogant because they did was something special & paid no attention to their long lasting affect in future reviews of how they would be look upon
one thing that wasn't touched on is how Paramount/Universal was really who was behind everything b4 disney got involved during Avengers
Personally I loved Iron Man, Thor and Caps origin movies aswel as the first Avengers. Iron man 2 and thor tdw were major flops but winter soldier and gotg were great. Antman was a fun heist movie so for me they done more good than bad in the first 3 phases.
Hawkeye, black widow, Thor, and the Hulk were really the most underutilized characters. We could have got a globe-trotting James Bond-esque style of Hawkeye and black widow solo film that would have gained interest for the character, especially Jeremy Renner himself. An action-packed spy thriller with a grounded narrative and a fast-paced fast five kind of action. Thor should have been a Lord of the Rings kind of film and Kenneth the director would have used that as a reference together with the comic books. Hulk should have gotten a second film in the second phase by having Ruffalo present his acting range Marvel should have utilized the same way they did with RDJ. There are a plethora of hulk narratives that would have been utilised and heavily interconnected to the she-hulk.
They hated Hawkeye so much they forgot he was in shield during Winter Soldier. Fiege was probably driving that snow plow.
@@The_ReviewCrew 😂😂😂I really think the same attitude was applied with Captain America, the two avengers movies you can clearly see that Whedon hated Captain America like he really wanted to drive the snow plow to Captain America.
@@The_ReviewCrewHawkeye was actually supposed to be in Winter Soldier as one of the agents hunting down Cap. I forgot why they changed that, though
@@The_ReviewCrewthe fact that Clint wasn't in Winter Soldier definitely bugged me at first.
Can't wait for your next video, my man. I love this long-form, well researched essays
Thank you so much! Working on the next one as we speak 🫡
Back when it came out i always thought Ant-Man was the first part of phase 3... wild to look back on it and know this is the end of phase 2, instead of Age of Ultron...
I think it’s weird that ant man follows an avengers film not once but twice! They must’ve thought ant man would be the perfect pallet cleanser hahaha
I think I'm one of the few people that actually likes Age of Ultron lol. It's a fun watch, I actually feel like everyone's arcs progress in a natural direction (nat and bruce romance aside), and I appreciate that the first act is one of the few times we see all 6 avengers really acting as a team and doing some avenging
That Captain America line is not cheesy!
Right. Of all the cheesy lines that was one of my favorite.
I would also like to point out that Hawkeye gets so little until Age of Ultron. Black Widow at least gets some setup in Iron Man 2 and definitely more in Winter Soldier. Hawkeye gets practically nothing. Shows up in Thor with nothing to do, brainwashed in Avengers 1 and joins the fight at the end but feels the less developed of the original avengers, is confusingly absent in Winter Soldier despite working for Shield. He’s been done so dirty until Age of Ultron.
I love interest is not an overuse trope. It is absolutely a staple in comic books if you’ve read any.
It is a good video bring up just cause the way people perceive the MCU is very wrong, the MCU is not the perfect franchise, but it's not a dead franchise, both are exaggerated spectrums of how people perceive the MCU. Phase 4 & 5 are pretty much exactly like Phase 1 & 2, just we do have a lot of projects now even in just Phase 4 & while admittedly this is a quality over quantity thing. We still had the same kind of hit & miss feel as Phase 1 & 2. Since somehow it's more popular to trash talk MCU like how it's more popular to praise the MCU before, while there has been misses like Eternals, Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Quantumania, & Secret Invasion, there's actually been a great bunch of hits for the MCU: WandaVision, Loki (both S1 & S2), What If, Shang-Chi, Hawkeye, No Way Home, Moon Knight, Multiverse of Madness (for the most part), Ms. Marvel was very well received despite having one of the least viewed MCU show, Werewolf by Night, Wakanda Forever, Guardians Holiday, & Guardians Vol. 3. Phase 4 & 5 are not Phase 3 level of greatness, but it's not exactly as bad as the internet makes it out to be. You can say that because of that, Phase 4 & (for now) 5 are better than Phase 2, given the number of hits.
That said, Marvel does need to take it easy on how many projects they're releasing.
I already seen the latest film, The Marvels, it's not exactly well made as a film, but you can say it's a middling & passable film since it was at least fun & engaging, just nothing too deep. But nevertheless, we're going to be alright since the only for sure coming projects right now are What If S2, Echo, & Deadpool 3. As long as Marvel learns the mistakes & keep themselves together (we saw how DCEU couldn't keep themselves together as well as Star Wars sequel trilogy), they'll be alright.
Personally I am less concerned with characters and storylines remaining consistent and progressing, so long as the movie itself is enjoyable on its own.
And in a choice between the 2, I’ll choose an enjoyable movie that doesn’t make in its place in the MCU over a mediocre or bad movie that plays a functional role in furthering those stories.
This is why I love both WandaVision and Dr. Strange 2.
Based comment, my thoughts exactly
The quality of the research, pacing and editing of this is brilliant! Can't wait for the next vid and for you to get many many more well deserved subscribers!
Wow this is the nicest comment we’ve ever received thank you so much!! We worked for two months on this video and it means so much to have our work recognized and enjoyed!! ♥️
Still wild we had Dark Knight and Iron Man a couple months apart. Two successful films that other IPs have desperately tried to copy in the 15 years since then
I remember walking out of the theater after seeing Avengers 2 and saying more like Afternoon of Ultron
I once saw someone call it “Weekend at Ultron’s”
To be fair, every time they refer to him as a man, they haven't actually seen him yet. I would imagine most people would expect to meet a human, not some gigantic robot.
Idk, I literally felt complete after watching endgame in theaters. I haven't watched any mainline marvel films since. it was one of the few times in my life I knew that this is it and I'm done. I still read comics and graphic novels, but I have no interest in the marvel movie universe anymore. It's like when you move outta the house after graduating high school and realize your childhood is over.
I think I may have been the youngest person in the Gaurdians of the Galaxy theater who already loved the characters
re: Anton Vanko's deportation, I was under the impression from the movie he was selling Stark tech/ secrets back to the Soviets. How dare you do my dude Coulson dirty like that! lmao he was one of my fav elements of phase 1 and I'm really glad he got to go off and do AoS, I enjoyed it maybe because it went off and did it's own thing only barely connecting to the films. Solid critique; as much nostalgia as I have for these movies, they really were mostly pretty mid.
Haha I loved coulson in agents of shield and was so happy to see him back briefly in Captain Marvel! Thanks for the support 😁
thank u for coming down so hard on whedon
Someone had to do it 😎
LETS FUCKING GOOOOOO !!!! 🎉 I didn’t even like marvel until I watched each and every one of them before endgame came out and loved watching the avengers for the first time on my little computer. I can’t imagine what it would be like to experience that in a theater!
Marvels gone woke
@@Mr__Drwhat the fuck does that even mean. Get a life
@@Mr__Dr define "woke".
@@iraford5788it’s when… woman 🤓 lol
@@Mr__Dr so you can't define it lmao 🤣!.
Only part I disagree with is Joss ruining the DCEU. If you look at what Zack created before and after Joss you'll see that it was doomed from the start. From a writing standpoint the Synder Cut was just as bad if not worse do to its length combined with relative quality
THIS. Zack Snyder is basically a music video director. Nobody wanted a DC universe of muted tones and mopey characters wondering if humanity is worth saving. Man of Steel was okay. But if everything else was going to be like BvS, better to just pull the plug completely
52:22 that's Whedon being Whedon. I've said since the days of Buffy, he's extremely overrated and only has one idea he just keeps recycling. Even his much lauded Firefly was just a rewrite of the characters he shoe horned in Alien Ressurrection.
THIS! I was going to mention that too but I’m just grateful people are off the Whedon train 🥴
"Where is this other character? This is a shared universe, why aren't they here?" This is not new or unique to the MCU; it's an old challenge which begins with suspension of disbelief by the audience and can easily be handled with "So-and-so is busy with X" if someone's absence too glaring. (This was explicit in an episode of "Supernatural", where Dean is angry at Castiel for not helping them, and then Castiel rebukes Dean by explaining that this is a big war and Castiel was busy in other battles.)
Joss Whedon was verbally abusive to folks on set, but his behavior is pretty common and "normal" in Hollywood. It's too easy to give the impression that it's Just One Guy or that Whedon was the Worst of the Worst.
" for the first time ever a movie was able to balance multiple super heroes and have a tight story arc" The first 2 X-Men movies would disagree
The first 2 thor films and the incredible hulk was overhated imo.
I agree, but I think most people don’t carry that same attitude towards the more popular projects!
The big problem with the MCU is that is following the same formulas that led to a down turn in the interest in the comics before the films got big, everything has to be interconnected but somehow stand alone, once you introduce the Avengers it makes no sense that most of them don't turn up once there is a significant threat, unless you write a really good reason for them not to be there. On top of that ,the comics where monthly issues of multiple comics and at least provided some sort of character development in between the big events , whilst the MCU is basically doing only the big events, the fatigue of having to keep up is just exacerbated.
I look forward to the next part in your series. You make excellent points to showcase how flimsy the foundations of the MCU are and how it inevitability lead to its downfall. A lot of strange decisions were made early on and its clear to see where many of the issues stem from.
Thank you so much! It’s really interesting to look back, it opens your eyes to how unwarranted some of the recent criticism is.
Great video! You bring up some good insight and I share some of the same opinions. Phase 3 is no different to me and it’s where I believe that the movies became even more stale to preserve the formula. I can’t wait to watch the next one!
You know rewatching phase 3 I kind of feel the same way! I’m not sure if I’ve seen them too often or they are really just formulaic but I’m def gonna talk about the problems!
You need more than 650 subscribers. Excellent work.
Thank you so much!! We worked hard to make something worthy of sitting for 58 minutes to watch 🤪
The Iron Man 3 trailer was the best iron man movie ever.
I’ve never seen a more true statement. The phase 1 trailers should have ended mcu dead in its tracks
Just found your channel, fantastic work.
I can't imagine I'm the first person to say this, but you singled out iron man as the most influential super hero movie in terms of being grounded in reality and you specifically say that's because it predates the dark knight. But the dark knight is a sequel to a movie that predates iron man, batman begins. Which even Kevin feige has said was a massive influence to the mcus direction
Guardians of the galaxy was literally the movie that made me give a shit about marvel and besides Spider-Man it’s the only reason why I stayed watching their movies
Guardians 2 was the one that made me check out.
The reason why MCU was a blockbuster bcos it was a once a year thing. When I was in highschool, my friends and family would get together to go to the movies to watch the newest marvel movie, then we'll have dinner and talk about it. Now, they released a lot in 2 years, no one could keep up and no one gives AF. RIP MCU
This is a great video ima big fan of these type channels and you definitely got it🔥keep grinding and growing
Thank you so much 🤗 Appreciate the support cant wait to express my thoughts on other topics!
I thought I was insane for hating Ultron, everyone else keeps saying how "good" it was 😭
And Natasha´s storyline doesn't even bother me that much (when I saw it theaters at 14 years old, it just confused me? Children were such a faraway concept I couldn't really understand having strong opinions either way), it was how Whedon handled the chemistry among the team. Them hanging out is fine in theory, but I felt everyone was too familiar with each other, and the chemistry just felt off. And regressing Tony for the third time was really it for me.
Don’t worry they regress him one more time in Spider-Man far from home.
Many hated AoU when it came out, me included. I only mellowed on it because Phase 4 and 5 are so shit.
@@The_ReviewCrew 😟 maybe it was a good thing I missed it in theaters...
Ultron was the film that made me finally realized REALLY needed to stop watching trailers. The movie I felt promised in that trailer is not what I got. And yeah RDJ regressing was just so rough and made me want to quit the MCU.
I confess I had my problems with the original Iron Man films in how they utilized disposable villains instead of mainstays like Mandarin. And I had already started to lose faith in the entire endeavor when they put a fake Mandarin into the 3rd entry. I would go as far as to say Guardians 1 and Infinity War are the only truly great films of the entire franchise. The only two without glaring flaws in their execution and overall legacy.
the editing and commentary on this was awesome. deserves way more views and likes!!
Really appreciate that! We worked for a really long time to put this all together!
I hate that that Loki has so much potential as the god of mischief but they just turn him into regular strong shootemup bad guy. They also left out a lot Thor’s powers
I agree here and there but a lot of the points made just aren’t good. For example saying tony stark should have gotten help from therapy and people around him but nobody in known history (at the time of age of ultron) had ever dealt with the things Tony’s been through like the worm hole he went through and saw just how big of a ship the chitari had and knowing there must be way more than just that out there that will come to attack. Also having a witch put a vision in your head of all your friends being killed and saying its your fault. Or being kidnapped by a bunch of terrorist who want you to create a weapon that will be used against your country and escaping but watching the man that made the escape possible die right infront of your eyes. Or almost being killed by your fathers best friend. Or almost dying from a poising going into your body from the only thing keeping you alive and helping you save other people’s lives. Or eating shawarma from a restaurant that was probably not supposed to be serving food anymore after all the damage it took during the battle of New York (think of that dust and maybe even asbestos that could have fallen all over the kitchen from all that damage the building received). I’m pretty sure a therapist would need therapy after just hearing about what tony has been through (especially the shawarma)
Lolol I withdraw my previous statement because I never considered the shawarma ❤️🩹thank you for the insight
yesssss so excited for this!!! there are SO many movies it's so hard to keep up!!
There are soooo many movies and shows now it’s crazy! When does it end?!
I remembered being so hype for iron man 3, and almost wanting to leave the theater about 30 minutes in.
Personally, I don’t think the MCU ever went bad, it’s just always been good for the general audience and people who want fun superhero movies like me
I always thought the movies were terrible entertaining doesn’t mean it’s good. By not changing the formula they have failed
It IS fortunate that RDJ wasn't cast as Dr. Doom in the Tim Story Fantastic Four films. While it's never been stated outright,it's clear that the actors portraying any of those characters would be automatically disqualified from landing any significant roles in the MCU. Which is why we never heard from any of the cast of those films ever again.
It’s a shame that neither of the fantastic four movies were made well. Thank goodness Chris Evans made it out, and I hope for the best in this next iteration coming out
@@The_ReviewCrew well you definitely have a point there.
...but I do tend to wonder sometimes...
...I wonder if it isn't JUST that they weren't particularly well made films. Even before those films were made,I've always kind of thought of Fantastic Four as the biggest flagship Marvel title that just didn't age as well as so many of the others. I felt that way even in the '90s. And apparently the '90s agreed with me,cuz there were multiple attempts to rebrand the whole book as something else. Fantastic Force...The Freedom Foundation...
Fantastic Four was the seed from which the entire Marvel Universe has sprung. And yet I think that it has a much tougher time connecting with modern sensibilities than almost ANY other Marvel property and/or ongoing title.
And so I ask you...
...is it even POSSIBLE to make a "good" FF movie!? I mean...probably. But I'm glad that it's not MY job to make Fantastic Four presentable and engaging enough for the silver screen. It certainly hasn't been done at any point in the past.
Yes! The fantastic four was so popular before the 2000s! With so much material to refer from, I’m not sure how a decent movie hasn’t been made but hopefully we can get a strong cast and lead to a worthy family soon!
Also good job criticizing Marvel without going into a “it’s woke waaaaah” rant
DiZKnEE AgEnDuH!!!!!!
Ugh. That is so annoying. It's so dismissive and derivative.. agree.
I have a question, where do you get your music from? Because I noticed a lot of the songs used were also used by Cosmonaut Variety Hour and was just wondering if it was coincidence lol, loved the video btw!
Also, the DCEU was pretty much DOA tbh. I don't think Joss did much worse to it.
Yeah I forgot how bad Batman v Superman was tbh lol
@@The_ReviewCrewthe Actual cut of the movie is one of my favorites but that theatrical cut is pretty shite . The executives in charge of WB the past 15 years did some dumb shit. Glad DC finally has it's own studio.
Disney didn't just tarnish the Marvel brand, they utterly wrecked it up to the point that even comic sales are suffering drastically and the legacy, value, status, impact and meaning of its characters is being severely affected. Can the brand recover from such heavy damage? I sure hope so, but that still remains to be seen.
If the brand's current state is the price for 10 years of MCU success, then for me the MCU really didn't have to exist. The damage they have done to brand up to this point is of such nature it's nigh irreparable and if, I say 'if' they (or hopefully others) ever manage to do so, this will remain as a big ugly scar on the brand forever.
Indelible, like a brandmark. This isn't just about one bad and/or hokey movie and/or TV series from before the MCU, this is way waaay beyond everything that preceded the MCU and was deemed bad and/or hokey. This is a real value, status, impact- and meaning kind of brand damage that could- and most likely will have a lingering effect.
I dare go as far as to say that Marvel probably can't and never will be the same ever again. The brand has become hollow, bland, a farse, a joke, a bad punchline, etc. and a tool for overly political correctness propaganda. Yeah, if that is the price for 10 years of MCU success, for me the MCU really didn't have to exist. th-cam.com/video/hw3Krn-gUL0/w-d-xo.html
An hour long video? Who do you think you are?
The hour long marvel video essay is right behind me, isn't it?
@@The_ReviewCrewwait a minute, is that an… HOUR LONG VIDEO!?
It’s 58 mins and 4 seconds tho
@@BrookBeckyeah @mr_dr what you gonna do? Shit yourself? Reassess your situation before ever posting again.
@@BrookBeck🤓 you’re a comic book supremest I can tell
Hey, I'm currently re-binging the MCU right now and I'm now at the multiverse saga. From what I have seen in this video, it really sounds like to me that the real reason why people love the MCU isn't because of the quality of characterization or story, but perhaps it's just the fact that their favorite childhood comic book or Saturday morning cartoon is being adapted for the big screen and these people are so blown away by the visuals, spectical and action that they really don't seem to look at the movies critically. Some people actually don't think of these things when watching a movie as they just want to have a good time and be entertained. And quite honestly, who can blame them. I can also take away from this video that not all successful film franchises are perfect. They're successful because they garner money and manage to maintain a mainstream following but they're not perfect in the sense of how some people subjectively view art or other creative works. Anything creative can have its critiques and flaws despite some of us still liking said work.
I'm not a comic book reader so I cannot go too much in depth of the source materials that much. But I do know that if the source material itself has creative flaws and its film adaptation doesn't do any better, what argument is there to have when both versions suck? (Ready Player One I'm looking at you).
I do have to disagree with a few points made in this video however because there are a few things that I do interpret a bit differently when watching the MCU but it's still my opinion nonetheless.
For starters, I don't think the visual effects in Age of Ultron were really that bad. It's just how the CGI effects in the early-mid 2010s looked like. Man of Steel, Micheal Bay TMNT and Jupiter Ascended had a similar look. It's just the times man. This is something that I think got better with Captain America: Civil War and continued that way until Endgame. I remember Age of Ultron, like all other MCU films at the time, being highly anticipated. So that point I take to be completely subjective to the speaker in the video.
Speaking of Civil War, I really think that's the movie where Iron Man, Captain America and the Avengers splitting up is when things actually begin to get good. These upcoming movies in the third phase I'll say I kind of have a cynical appreciation for.
The physical interactions and brutality between Iron Man, Captain America, Black Panther, Bucky and Zemo is to the equivalent of seeing a fight break out in a high school gym or cafeteria. They are all angry at each other because they either witnessed or learned of very disturbing revelations about one another and they just want to kill one another and fight one another like children. Vengeance is all that matters right now and are risking their public image being tarnished to the media.
T'Challa is the only one who is able to quickly refrain from his selfishness and accept the reality of his situation in his own movie and in turn is able to help out someone who he was wrongfully accused of for his actions while also wanting to provide for a better future for his people and make a better legacy for himself. (Still didn't like Black Panther at it's initial release time but later came to understand it's subject matter. RIP Chadwick.)
Although, I really can't say the same for how Dr. Strange and Tom Holland Spider-Man were shoehorned into the tail end of the infinity saga. Dr. Strange I don't have much to say other than he's just another Tony Stark but as a doctor.
But how the way the rest of the Avengers treat Spider-Man is just bad. Even when Spidey has already proved himself that he has what it takes to be an Avenger, Iron Man goes back to being a (soft) dick to him which just ticks me off. The rest of the Avengers don't even act like he's there in Infinity War or Endgame. Had this been the traditional Spider-Man like in the comics or something like Tobey Maguire, Spider-Man would've been helping the Avengers on his own accords and not giving an F*** what any of the Avengers told him. They would have no problem taking in a thirty something year old Spider-Man into their Avengers team. A major diss to how they were both depicted in the 90s MAU. If things happened a little bit differently between Sony and Marvel, Andrew Garfield would've probably been our MCU Spider-Man. It seems to only be Happy Hogan and Dr. Strange somewhat who actually treats Peter decently and understand him. I support the "Iron Man Jr" label Peter gets (to an extent).
Also, while maybe it wasn't fully said in this video, wasn't the whole point of the infinity saga, or the first few phases always about changing the tone in different movies? And people just didn't have an issue with that? I get it if Review Crew didn't initially see it that way or understood it, but everyone else seems to have not mind or enjoyed this concept but that has always been an integral aspect of the MCU. One thing that I can't argue against is how well they managed to keep consistent with the tesseract and Thanos subplot in most of the movies leading up to his moment in Endgame. That was brilliant in my opinion and what made the infinity saga as a whole cohesive in that right.
One last point I want to make, something that I don't like about video essays or analysis videos in general is that when people begin to nitpick too much it may register to some people that you are either overly criticizing or flat out bashing on a certain topic you are covering. Especially if you are expressing yourself in a notably negative manner. I understand you want to be passionate about something you like and critique if you must, but at least end your video in a conclusion that restates why you still love and are passionate about said topic. End it on a positive note to show your viewers that you are not lying or BS-ing about what you say is true. Don't give people the wrong idea of what you are trying to express. I didn't feel like I got it here.
Why does Review Crew like Marvel despite the long rant/critique he just went through about picking on its flaws? Are there any good aspects that came about while doing this deep dive? If you want your point to have an equal balance of positive and negative matters then do a better job at talking about those things and not lean too heavily on something that outweighs the other. You'll just end up sounding hypocritical if you only end saying you love something when you don't reiterate that with the critiques you give. If you said that Age of Ultron had bad visual effects I felt they could've gone a bit deeper to how that later affected the VFX department in the later phases. You know, just something to take into consideration.
The checkerboard of miscasting vs good casting, the fast writing that relies on 80s tropes, the weak villains, the stand-up comedy, the casting based on who is an up and comer (or who tweeted loudest) rather than who was right for the role, and the jokes that ridicule the source material sums up all Marvel's problems.
Hey, great video essay man! Super well done. One small critique I have for you is your background music choices. Don't get me wrong, VGM from pokemon and undertale is great stuff. Huge fan of it. But it didn't always feel like it fit super well tonally with the points in the video it was put in, and I think it was a little too loud- especially since there wasn't background music all the time.
Seriously though, great video. I enjoyed it a lot. Just thought I'd offer a little bit of constructive criticism because your videos deserve more attention and I hope they get there (:
Appreciate the feedback and glad you enjoyed it! The music was one of the last pieces we added and by that time we were kinda over it but we’re definitely learning as we go 😅♥️