You DON'T Need That $6,000 Lens!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 มิ.ย. 2024
- Comparing the Leica R 19mm Elmarit V1 against a Minolta Rokkor MDii 20mm f/2.8 and a Zeiss Milvus ZF.2 18mm f/2.8. Plus my philosophy behind "perfectly matched" sets of lenses.
(p.s. I already know what all my new SIGMA fp lovers are thinking, but we did this test WAY before I owned the fp. We'll get it in the next one!)
Lenses featured:
Leica 19: ebay.us/XONkH3
Minolta 20: ebay.us/JfEYp8
Zeiss 18: amzn.to/3F1dR2p
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CHAPTERS:
00:00 - Intro
01:06 - The Test
01:53 - Social Dilemma
02:27 - The Argument
04:34 - How to Make TH-cam look Better
05:36 - 4K Test Footage
05:53 - Breathing, Bokeh, Min. Focus
07:41 - Distortion
09:07 - Flare
10:17 - Side by Side
10:23 - My Observations
10:35 - Saturation
11:09 - Vignetting
12:29 - Contrast
13:11 - Skin Tones
14:21 - Bokeh WTFO & Stopped Down
17:13 - Close Focus
18:57 - The Setup
19:10 - Flare/Glare Comparison
22:06 - Outro
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Duclos Leica R CineMod: • Leica R Mod Stream
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#filmmaking #cinematography #cameralens
Dude! Based on this video I decided the Rokkor was something I had to have. After months of searching and having people help me look I found a clean copy and ordered it. Arrived today and holy cow - what a badass little lens. And the flares match my Leicas better than the 19mm too! Thanks for the video!
Nice!
Each of these lenses have "Character" all there own. Experimenting with these vintage lenses be it bokeh, sharpness, great color, vignetting or just that pleasing smooth focus ring. Thats what makes a cool vintage lens worth experimenting with for great videos or photos.
I am a modern glass kinda guy but Minolta looks like the W here for the price!
That Zeiss Milvus 18mm looks sensational!
My Leica R 19mm V1 from 1978 has also crazy flares as you shown. Looks like it’s not just present in the early 70s but in the late 70s as well. If you stop down to f3.5-4 the flares are way better controlled and look amazing
My favorite bit from the entire video is at 3:54. So true. LOL! Awesome work as always JP!
🤣 Whats up JohnMark?!?
@@JustinPhillip Nothing much. Watching your videos while grading my wedding. I'm always entertained. :D
Ziess Classic are the best budget still manual lenses available to this date. Many want that Contax rare lenses and most can be found under Classic for third of the price. Milvus are more perfect (modern design) and have less flare (better coatings). And thats why I went for the Classic lineup that in terms of character sits between Contax and Milvus.
i agree with this. the only classic i currently own is the 28mm f/2. Because it has the exact same optical design as the original Hollywood, just better built imo. Plus, it's discontinued now, so its only gonna go up in price.
Same thought, and i have been collecting ze , zf zeiss! I dont shoot video but Love the rendering it gives, purely for photography.
I bought a set of classics because I saw them advertised at a reasonable price. I have the 21mm f2.8, the 28mm f2, the 35mm f2, the 50mm f2 (macro) and the 85mm f1.8. All of them are pretty good, but it’s also the 28 that I have found to be the most pleasing. I don’t do lens tests really, but that is just from using them in the real world. Every time I use the 28 I just feel like it looks interesting and pleasing.
I do my own color grading, which is why I have a strong interest in matching my serials. Hoping it'll get me closer straight off the bat
The Leica 19mm V1 has some of the best micro-contrast followed second by the Zeiss 18mm classic. This makes a huge difference in fine detail at 4k and beyond. but for average talking head shots at F 5.6 most lenses are the same. It comes down to the little extras that make these drastic price differences. There is a reason Panavision used Leica glass in the 80's.
Micro contrast is a myth.
@ I do not agree. I have seen amateur's put up videos that do not know how to test properly for it.
So interesting! Nice work brother. The only vintage I have is the Helios 44-2. Keep going!
@Bernard nice set!
I love those lieca flares. Is there a way to achieve that with modern lens?(or any cheap third party lens for that matter)
Minolta has made their own lens coatings so their lenses across the set have the best matching color rendetion :)
I really appreciate the lens test you put together and shared with us! Although the point of the video seems to be that you don't actually need Leica glass... this comparison kinda gave me more of a feel for what Leica glass actually does, and despite their weird bokeh, now I want Leica glass more than before!
Hey man it is what it is, It can go either way! Lens tests are always wide open to any opinions 🙌🏼
Great comparison! I want to dig out my old minoltas now! What slate app did you use for the iPad?
i think its called Digi Slate
Great video, Justin. Can I ask what the A lens for this TH-cam video was? It's got a nice look.
Hard to say what a lens. this video is over a year old at this point. I do know the camera was the RED Komodo tho.
I do that all the time, since every new video gets knocked back down to 360 Ugggh lol. I'm happy you explained that, there are lots of viewers that don't know that.
100%! I actually get sick of having to respond to people when they're like, oh man, the quality is S**T! lol whatevs
The milvus seems to have the smoothest corner bokeh. When the focus is on the model, all the Christmas lights seem to be equally out of focus, but with the other two lenses the small bokeh balls are distorted making them look like sharper points of light as you get closer to the edges. This phenomena can make for uneven and busy corner bokeh in other scenarios.
Very good observation. I still use the Milvus 18 with my Leica Rs
I like the vibe of your Zeiss lenses. Good stuff. Considering the Sirui Nightwalkers. Curious what you think. I own Canon C70, a couple of RF lenses and a bag of EF glass.
I haven't checked out the Sirui's myself, but I'm just not a fan of all the the super cheap cine lenses popping up everywhere right now. The ones i have used just dont do anything image wise for me. But i think it's because my eyes got used to looking at more legendary glass. This is all just IMO.
Excellent video and information! Also, appreciate the shout-out!
Hey Bobby!! 🙌🏼
What digital slateboard are you using there?
Since I am poor, my main wide angle lens is the Sigma 10-20mm f3.5. Honestly love it. Especially when its close to a subject and you can see the bokeh on it.
@Bernard I own both a Helios 44-2 and Mir 1B
Did you try any other zooms? Canon 10-18, tamron?
I own a 35mm f2 leica r and man been trying to find a wide angle lens to match better
Man Zeiss classics all the way. Just gotta learn to love the CA and Focus breathing :) but man I love Zeiss lenses. Have you tried any lower budget cine lenses (Meike, DZO primes)?
had the Zhongyi's on here a while back! lol
Insane Coperation Between Those Lenses Keep Up With The Hard Work.
I Want To Ask You Which Lens You Would Suggest Me To Buy For Panasonic Lumix GH6 I'm Between Mekei S35 5Lenses Case Package, ZEISS Milvus 35mm F1.4 , Irix Cine Lens 45mm T1.5 And The DZOFILM Cine Zoom 20-70 T2.9 Let Me Know Your Opinion You Will Help Me A Lot.
Greetings From Greece Have A Nice Day
Nice video mate
Are you going cp3 Zeiss ?
That Leica is still unmatched. Looks like the image is set back under a layer of resin. Very nice.
nah, version 2 is better!
have to check Zeiss Jena 20mm 2.8 Electro, another world
I shoot with a set of Nikon AI-S (cine-modded and everything), their price is much more fair and the look is a vintage look. I like it better than a contax set that I used to own, because the contax were so expensive, I could only build a set with F2.8 wides and F1.4 standards, while with Nikon AI-S I can have F2 wides. My take with vintage lens is that any lens manufactured before 1990 has a strong vintage look. If you just want something not modern, there is no reason to follow the Leica/Zeiss hype. I would much rather build a set that's reasonably priced and just rent proper cine lenses if the production requires. Just treat these vintage lenses as your toys as none of them (if not re-housed) will be suitable for a high-stake shoot.
i agree
@@JustinPhillip would love to see you review Nikon vintage lenses. Bought a 28mm Nikon AI and it seems cleaner than some modern lenses I’ve used.
@@Commenter1270 I'm doing a Nikon Ai-s VS DZO Vespid & Catta Ace
My only problem with my Nikons is that they are not sharp wide open (even by vintage lens standards.) Thats why I keep my Leicas, but my nikkors are pre ai. Not sure if it makes a difference with ais
@@HiddenOaksMedia I find my ais sharp enough wide open for what I do. pre-ai is 20-40 years older than ais so probably there is some difference.
caveat to playback resolutions not mentioned by video maker - if you are using the TH-cam app on a console (say, PS4), you will be limited to 1080p, even if your TV is 4k capable and your Internet connection is fast enough. You need the PS4 pro or PS5 to be able to view TH-cam videos at 4k (providing you have a 4k TV and fast enough Internet).
Me completing my Zeiss CP.3 set is like Thanos getting all six of the Infinity Stones. It's inevitable.
Just put together a set of vintage 1970-1972 dated ARRI Zeiss Standard Speeds for roughly $4,000 each. There's a similarity between the old Zeiss "3D pop" and Leica "3D pop" that I think is a good option if you're after that specific look and feel. All T2.1 and tiny in size. I love the R's but just a little bit of cine consistency (housing size, aperture, gears, etc) goes a long ways. GOAT status though are definitely the Leica Hugo's (cine housed Summilux M lenses) but they're $20,000 each.
But are theyS16? Or they cover full frame?? If so, please tell me more
@JustinPhillip I thought I replied to this but I guess I forgot. Yes, the Standard Speeds Mk2's cover all traditional 35mm frame sensors and even some of the larger ones. There's a really good video about them here... th-cam.com/video/lNE4yk6Smow/w-d-xo.html that will tell you lots. Happy to tell you more about them, help ya find some, etc. If you're buying them from someone who knows what they are using "standard speed" will find you what you want. Technically tho that was an unofficial name and they're "ARRIFlex Zeiss T2.1 Mk2 Primes" or some combination of those words. The full set is 11 different lenses. Most 5 lens sets are 16,24,32,50,85.
All you really need is good focus and steady hands/tripod!
Or you’re like me and got the $7k 19mm V2. The halo and abberations on the V1 are a little much for my work. But yeah I think as long as your lenses don’t have a nasty green suppressed modern flare, you’re good
GOOD SHIT MY BOY....WHOOP WHOOP
When you said brain hemorrhage I was on the floor laughing haahaha
I'm happy with my Fuji XF prime lenses. The quality is great and price is OK for my budget.
I have an XF system and started using it when I was getting into video - the problem is they're all fly-by-wire (except for a select few with the fantastic clutch system) so manual focusing is extremely difficult, and continuous AF is (or was, at least on my camera) pretty useless for video. Otherwise, fantastic optics.
@@daniel.lopresti Fuji has made major improvements in AF especially the Xh2s with the new 3.0 Firmware update. It's about 90% as good as Sony and Canon. Worth checking out. @davidak Yeah I did a Fuji vs Minolta lens test and was really surprised how good they are, especially the 23mm f2 and the 16mm f1.4 (although terribly loud in af)
spot on southern accent my dude! hahaha
🤣🤣
I'm guessing all three lenses were tested on the same camera... want to confirm as I liked the color and rendering of the Leica significantly more (subjective opinion of course). I have several Leica R (incl. the 19mm v2), Contax and Zeiss classic lenses. I know, I know... G.A.S.-imus maximus. Arri put out a video comparing their new (or newer) lenses to other brands, demonstrating their "sharp yet soft characteristics" with skin (see vid here: th-cam.com/video/rcX5T0cHB7U/w-d-xo.html ). I enjoy looking for this characteristic in lenses... and perhaps I'm imagining things, but the Leica does seem to have a bit of this feel to it.
Quite honestly, I often fail the blind lens tests (as most others do) so I'm accepting a bit of bias based on what we (meaning me) want to see. That said, I'd never pay the asking price for my 19mm v2 today, but then, I find I'm not quite willing to sell yet... hmmm.
Since Sirui came up with a full frame anamorphic at a reasonable price (relatively speaking), I'm seeing a bit of that "sharp with the edge taken off" image quality (when shots aren't cluttered with flare effects). Have since purchased the Aivascope (thanks for all the scope tips, BTW) then just canceled my Indigogo reservation on the Sirui 75mm after learning that "Great Joy" (godda love these names) is releasing in May 2022, an EF, PL (among others) mount, 1.8 squeeze, 50mm that, (thank goodness) is clean of the ridiculous Sirui flares... and it has a gorgeous picture with interesting bokeh to boot for the price. (G.A.S. rearing its ugly head again.) I like the idea of cropping the image back to a 16x9 while benefiting from the characteristics the lens offers.
Thanks again for the tips and comparison videos. Oh. And I did notice the grunge in your bokeh caused by your effects filters... now that you (I think it was you) taught me to look for it. Never noticed that before.
lol awesome! yeah, all shot on Komodo
You have to get into the LOMO OKS lenses at some point. Trust me, you’ll be HOOKED
Oh yea i’m aware of the Lomos, but they might be too funky for me…but you never know…
Zeiss Classic 21mm f2.8 = Still affordable and great to match with Leica R lenses ;)
That one's pricey too, not as crazy...but she's gettin' there
@@JustinPhillip it can't really go too high, otherwise it will hit the price of an used 21mm Milvus. Here in Europe the classic version is going for around 500/600€, it's not cheap but much better than 6000€ for the elmarit 19mm ahahah
@@LucaBono.Studio oh! the classic! I read Contax the first time! Ha! Yeah the classic one is the same design too, they all are actually, Milvus as well. Its the only one that stayed the same!
You made still want the Leica.
Minolta Rokkor...!!! 💪🏼 😉
these minolta are actually really good and got a nice pop..only issue with them is that the colors r so random, tested some and u can easily find urself with 500k difference when white balancing..so i gave up on building a set. I also think the 6000$ is overpriced and the price reach there just because of supply and demand. 1 vintage glass i bought 2 years ago, well the price went up 12x LOL its insane. Zeiss is kinda the underdog and people are finally buying them since fds/leicas r overpriced and non existant online, also finding that even the zeiss milvus is the same optical design as its predecessors but Better coatings, its a steal, zeiss also sell them in a set of 3-5..as if they knew their real clients are cinematographers :D another great 20mm with a good pop (some people are gonna kill me for saying that) is the zoom tokina 11-20mm f2.8 @20mm
dang i have that one! forgot to throw it in the mix! lol
@@JustinPhillip :( awww, i have been super impressed with it and I get why they made a cine version of it due to demand and some guys were offering a cine rehouse for 4000usd on EBAY lol. I actually discovered ur channel via the tokina Angie haha.
@@loudmotion5639 hey man! Do you mean the difference between 11-16 and 11-20 is so huge?
@@glebmazur9892 i cant tell really..the 11-20 is more recent and seems to be so popular among videographers that Tokina made a cine version.
@@loudmotion5639 popular cheap wide, I agree. But reviews say that optics difference is not that huge between two. Maybe 11-20 is touch cleaner/sharper in details + 4 more mm xD
But from pro nikkor ai/s users i’ve heard that tokina is pretty FLAT in cut with those nikkors and unwanted.
I mainly make photos with my Contax Zeiss lenses and some cheap beast, I have to try them for vídeo..(Distagon 28mm and 35mm f2.8, Planar 50mm f1.4) On my Fuji x cameras the Sonnar 135mm f2.8 is very bad. The fuji lenses are fine, anyway I'm not a film maker
The Contax 35 is nice! So is the 50! I had em all at one point
The Leica R performs better in my opinion, all the images look if it was more light on scene and the micro-contrast and bokhet is better too.
I prefered the Leica images too but was surprised by the extreme flare while not so much by the strange bokah, after all it is a wide angle lens from the 70's.
Great comment, people just buy stuff hoping it will make them better filmmakers
Milvus is amazing bang for buck IMO
It really is.
Leica R lens are overrated and I want to get my hands on it to see if I really really wanna own the set
Justin, Zeiss is German word. We DO pronounce it CAIS not ZAIS :)
WHAT THE faaahk!
thE FLARING IS EFFING PHEFAHKINnominal
Nokton 21mm F1.4, a modern classic....
islam hydratioin, with IV or some scketchy fluids stuff
🤨
Hi End
Zeiss. Once you see zeiss 3d pop. Every other lens resulting image look dull no matter how good it is
Just picking nits here, but "plethora" is usually a term that means "too many" or "an excessive amount". I feel that wasn't your aim with the word. I'm also being pedantic as hell.
it just means a large amount of something, there's no negative or positive context with it.
do you really think that there is someone who care to know about lens quality for video making doesn't know how to change play back resolution on youtube?
you would be surprised the kinds of comments i get on here...NEVER OVER-estimate the internet
Leica is still the best one.
hahahahhhhah