Shocking! VG10 Steel Optimized to the Max
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ต.ค. 2024
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Good gravy its bricky on things
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Pete I love where you’re talking your channel it’s like a Pokémon evolving.
I really like what you're doing here, alot of steels get looked down on now that are actually very good (VG-10, 440C, N690, ETC.) What you're proving is that geometry is everything.
^^THIS!^^
William Mowery I agree..I do alot of freehand sharping as well as guided and I can't even tell you how many times I've had completely different opinions on steel than TH-cam..Many great steels take the hit by guys making videos that truly just want to follow the "trend". They don't spend time USING the steel to find out how good it can be it's always on to the next big thing.
William Mowery geometry isn't everything. Heat treat is everything. And even with good heat treat, Chinese mystery steel will rarely ever out-cut REX 121 regardless of geometry.
The Ace you are absolutely correct there. A blade could be made of M4, but M4 from, say spyderco, will perform alot better than M4 from say, a micro brand. Both work together in terms of a blades performance, but well heat treated steel cant perform with bad geometry, and stellar geometry cant perform without the heat treat.
The Ace also, the insane steels, like REX 121 and maxemet, are very finicky. I have no experience with REX 121, but I do with maxamet. While it holds an edge, it is a major pain to sharpen, especially (ironically) with examples from spyderco. I've had two manix 2s in maxemet, and my first couldn't hold its edge when resharpening. My second example has yet to be sharpened.
Hey Pete, lesser known fact here: The music you put on your videos brings me great joy. That's all, have a good day.
you might enjoy Tarantula Hawk [the band]
Best quote of the year "just put a 12 degree edge on it, fuck!"
My dalstrong kitchen knife is vg10 and 10 degrees. I love it
I’ve been using 8-10 degree per side edges with a 15 per side edge for well over a decade. It’s more than durable enough for my uses, and the edge lasts a long time. Great to see you using smaller angles.
I really enjoy your common sense approach to testing knives and different steels. Going to watch all the videos for sure.
Love your videos, very informative. I have long ago come o the realization that a good heat treat and proper edge are the most important things in a blade. I no longer look at the steel but the design and overall ergonomics of blades these days.
Always loved vg10. And thanks for doing this to your knives.
Vg10 has always been one of my favorites for the price! Keep it up, these are amazing!
This is why high end kitchen knives use vg10 and they put 12-15 degree angles, and hardened to around 60-61 Rockwell. It's a good steel, what makes the knife good or bad is all geometry.
I'm here for the dogs and dragon ball Z.
Just amazing. Thanks for all you do. Makes me extra want to get a classic Spyderco stretch with vg 10 hehe.
Not sure if you should get a new fangled edge tester. Sounds like voodoo and you dont wanna mess with dark magic. Also change is scary 🙈. Holy hell ( redacted for spoiler) is a lot of cuts.
I have theory. Is the higher angle causing you to use more power, so that when you hit the board, you got the edge to be more blunt, it looks that you have easier to cut the rope with smaller angels. Something to think about? How to check? Use a cutting matt, do normal and lower, and try to "Feel the Force". Thanks for a very good job, and entertaining videos, that brings us some real value.
Making me wonder how S30V will perform and compare when optimized
What I like with the vg10 is that it seems very easy to sharpen and the stainless properties is pretty important here in Norway. It’s very damp every day is a rainy day hh. Not joking. Gj mate.
Look like where's Waldo here? But you have been found! You give me the best information my friend. You made Waldo a rockstar! You are the standard of material knowledge.
I know this is an older video but I just thought I'd add my own results here have been quite similar. I recently decided to reprofile my Real Steel "G-Slip" in VG10. It came with a great edge but given the design of the knife I wanted to see what it would be like with a slicer edge. First off, I was rather surprised at the hardness of the VG10 in this thing... I freehanded the re-profile on my DMT diamond pocket stones and it took a fair bit of effort just to bring the edge bevel back a touch. This thing is a god damned laser beam now and has been holding its edge shockingly long. I suspect the extra edge retention boost on slicer grinds might be partially due to the reduced effort/force you have to put on the knife to get it to cut??? Maybe? Either way I feel like I just turned this nice little entry-level knife into pure pocket magic. VG10 w/ a slicer grind is a hell of a fine deal in my book.
The blood on the cutting board is the mark of a true warrior.
VG-10 is my favorite stainless steel because it has a tendency to roll and not chip. It takes a scary edge with the right geometry. Touches up easily too.
What is the right geometry for vg10
@@alextomlinson 15 degrees per side gives you the best of both worlds: roll resistance and low enough for great pushcutting/slicing ability. These lower carbide steels can be pushed really low, something that Maxamet, S110V etc can only dream about.
@@em4703 I have a conundrum. I bought my father a nice enough VG10 core Japanese damascus knife. I knew buying it that the issue would be in future sharpening. I was hoping to buy him something simple to use. Something foolproof, relatively quick and hopefully not expensive. However I have not yet found such a system. All the ones I have found are either practically useless, or not fit for purpose, or are big, complicated and expensive. I'm now faced with two options. Buy something that will potentially ruin the edge if used incorrectly or if not effective, or won't be used if it's too complicated and annoying, or do nothing, which will probably lead to him using a chef's steel or pull-through sharpener which will definitely ruin the edge.
The knife came sharpened with a 12° angle on each side.
Do you have any wisdom? Apart from trying to get an older man to have a go on a whetstone which I know he hasn't got the patience or steady hand for
Wow. 340 is nuts! Thanks for all these tests, they really do help. Cheers
ps I consider VG-10 as say an affordable premium steel. Certainly not in the budget steel camp ie any alphabet steel (sans 9Cr18)- even up to 14C28N Sandvik
VG10 is the new M390.
Slow down there bud...
Optimized m390 did over 800 and wasn't dull at all ;)
But cost eight times the price of VG10......
only twice the price of VG10 I would say
and 10 times harder to sharpen than VG10
i've given my vg10 grinds like that. I chip them the moment I touch anything harder than plastic. I once used it to pick a jammed piece of paper out of a label printer. it came out with a 2mm chip it took me ages to grind it out. lost years out of my knife.
I know you from the vg10 craz you had in a certain fixed blade. Some of us just don’t settle when a knife is in our hand. I have changed the edge degree on almost all my fixed blades for better performance. There has to be limits in the slice a maker can feel confident about that works well with the geometry and how it wears. Then in the Main Stream CO’s,you gotta figure the say they have in the finished product.
So theirs many reasons why your channel is working and cheers for really committing
I bet spyderco's 8cr13mov will out perform all other or most made with similar steel. my old cheep tenacious holds an edge surprising longer than I expected would be interesting if you had similar results.. just a thought.
I took one of the cheap gerbers with 8cr to a belt grinder to remove the serrations and reprofile and it must've been ten degrees or less. It was substantially more chippy when it came to wood, but that thing stayed sharm for easily twice the amount of time it did before. Not very scientific at all but whatever. Thanks Pete!
Hey, I like your stuff alot 🤗
What are the disadvantage to such a steep angel? Less easy to make cutty-bushcrafty stuff with perhaps?
I am A Boer that uses a lionsteel m2m everyday for everything from skinnung to irrigation work etc.I want to know what you think about putting m390 on 12degrees for working performance thank you
It's kinda nice to know that we don't have to spend foolish amounts of money to get a decent knife. Get the angles right to start with and strop regularly gives you a product that costs a quarter of the price of difficult-to-sharpen 'super-steels'. Thanks for posting. Subscribed. :)
I think you’ve just demonstrated the importance of edge geometry. My guess is with the hollow grind plus your 12° edge that knife was super skinny behind the edge. Still, I’m very impressed that the VG-10 could function so well after being ground that skinny & not chip or roll the edge!
I love this series! That's an amazing number for a reasonably priced steel.
the best thread cutter on a machine is only the best thread cutter on that machine and there are many materials to deal with in the real world with very different properties that being said i prefer your quality edge holding reviews = thanks brother and cheers
These other people might not have caught the FFIX, but I'm onto you
That really wild cutting .very fine steel vg 10.not junk👍
That was fucking incredible! Keep in mind that this is kizers VG10, Spyderco would probably do a fair bit less. That being said I want to sharpen the Begleiter down to 12 degrees now! But I just put a beautiful KME edge the other day at the factory angle :( I need a tormek or something to do the stock removal/reprofiling and then finish on the KME for the best and quickest results.
EDC with Aaron what is the lowest degree the KME can do? I bought one recently and love it. Slightly reprofile my ontario rat 1. Cuts much nicer now. I can take it further but I'm happy where it is. My eyes are pretty average and I find the numbers and markings hard to read so i just relied on reval of sharpie ink
Another great revelation from you Peter! Thanks.
Hehehe. I made comment on Birdshot's channel. I reckon you could do a sharpness test after sharpening, with that magical testy thing that takes batteries, then do your standard tests as you do. Then at the end use the magical machine again to see how much the blade was worn/damaged. A great addition to your testing regime I reckon.
Feeling your pain with that beanie there mate, the North remembers.
Impressive demonstration.
Thanks for this one Pete,,, I've been debating which Endura to get,, VG10 vs ZDP189,,, think you've just solved that one for me,, also, VG10 is way up there, in the stain resist department,,, cheers buddy,,, (Zome VG10 it is then),,,,
Spyderco’s ZDP will hold an edge longer than VG-10. I carry a zdp Endura very frequently, and no major corrosion problems yet. The only reason I would choose the vg10 over it is if I used it in a moist environment, lived in an area near salt water, or wanted the extra ease of sharpening.
D2 d2 d2 d2! But seriously this series is the best! Pete you always make me watch No matter where I am.
How about testing Modified 420 Stainless Steel, widely used in M9-series bayonets? Many of us want a do-it-all bayonet!
Another great test. What's the edge measuring tool you're considering getting? And I agree - wtf?!?!?
check out cutlerlylover and birdshot iv channels - some kinda doodad that measures edges
It measures the pressure applied by the edge of the blade from what I saw in the demonstration.
I really really love VG10. Have since my Delica2. Great steel.
How do you think this will perform when convex sharpened like the way DBK does it?
Frederik Kjaer i dont know how narrow their edges are
Hmm, impressive. I'd like to know how this compares to my own VG-10 experience and loose personal "benchmarks"... back on the night shifts I sometimes used a wharncliffe Delica in VG-10 to break down cardboard for the compactor. While it doesn't take long for the steel to lose shaving sharpness, it glided through cardboard for a fair while. No idea what the equivalent edge angle would be though, I tend to convex the edges on my users. I just prefer the feel of an edge with no sharp shoulder on the secondary bevel.
Try picking up more high hardness+small carbide steels and try a 12 degree edge on them. I’m pretty sure you’ll get very solid and impressive results similar to this one
14C28N at max hardness, 1090 really high hardness, 52100. These are all great candidates
And holy sh*t! Insane result. Guess I'm taking my vg10 knives down to lower dps!
Pete, thank you for your research. How about Ganzos 440C
Yeah, I'm interested to see how that budget steel does when unleashed too. Although I'd wonder how uniform the results would be. Hard to trust their qc. Still hope a G-something gets unleashed.
Hey Pete do you think the Rockwell hardness plays much of a part in the edge retention testing?
Geez, Pete. Just duplicated your test & I only got 339 cuts. Wtf? Fake news!!
You are an idiot, your knife could have a different Rockwell or heat treatment. What an unknowledgeable idiot.
@todd you do know the “fake news” comment was a joke, right??
@@MrCacarocha That wasn't the wasy I read it. Me? I appreciate your humor.
Aaagh, I just did all my knives at 17 degrees, and now you tell me 12 degrees...aaagh!
Same! Lmaoooo
Love the new lumberjack look. Very manly. Keep up the great work!
"He's a lumberjack, and he's O.K. ..."
What in your opinion is optimum lowest dps edge for s110v and CTS-XHP when it is used only for slicing soft materials like fruits, veggies etc.. Thanks!!
Your introduction bought you a subscribe lol
At 59 vg10 is good stuff some companies run it soft. Nice to know kizer does well with it
Thank you sir
So what model and brand knife is this?
How hard was the VG-10 in this case if would happen to know? It seems like Kizer must be running it quite hard which I highly approve of.
So I looked around and it looks like Kizers vg 10 is in the 59-61HRC range which accounts for the higher performance than the 14C28N at 58-60 because taking down these edge angles scales significantly better with higher hardness. It’d be interesting to see a test of softer vg like I think spyderco runs it.
Cutting rope shows how good the edge retension is, but there are other aspects to consider too. For a knife that will be used for batoning and other heavy work you should choose a knive that has better toughness and can take the beating. But that usually results that the blades edge retension is worse. Its tricky to find the "one" perfekt knife. Thats why you buy a bunch of them =) But still like youre vidz, probably the best on youtube when comparing different steels. maybe the next step is to show how tough the steels are ;-)
I’m looking at my VG10 knives again... Hahahaha.
Impressive! I wonder how close a ‘like’ Steel such as BD1 would go. Cold Steels BD1 bested vg10 in your other rope cut test. I’m guessing the Voyager you had is gorn now. I’d love to see that model at 12 per side.
Tony Canniffe well I always figured 14c28n as a similar steel (although its composition is different), and in this capacity, VG10 really outdid it in a tangible way. Don’t have any Bd1 around at the moment, but definitely wanting it!
Yep. BD-1 on my Manix 2 LW (didn't want S110V on my "harder use" Spyderco, irrespective of price)... so I'm very, very curious about this one, Pete.
i've seen a kitchen knife tester get incredible results with a BD1-N gyuto in a rope cut test. don't want to seem like i'm promoting content in the comments, but it's searchable in youtube. supposedly japanese kitchen knives have a 12-14° cutting bevel, so i'd say that bodes well for BD1 and its nitrogen-infused revision.
Man those edge testers really came by storm didn’t they? They’re so expensive, I thought about buying one before I knew that.
Time to get a VG10 blade
Great Format Pete!!! And Plenty to Go :-)))
Boy, you're really buggering with my "horses for courses" blade steel / blade profile, steel nerd strategizing now, Pete! 😲 But what's the story about the effect of these angles on chipping or edge rolling susceptibility? I suspect the bottom line is again something more contingent and complex here, too.
Hahhaha "what have i unleashed" mad scientist
Hi Pete, Why does a thin angled edge ( 12 degrees ) last longer than a 17 degree edge ?
In this particular test, decreasing the sharpening angle of the secondary grind decreases resistance while cutting.
The very edge of the knife can enter more easily into the cutting material, because the material doesn't have to be spread apart as widely. Thus, getting the cut started is easier.
If you don't have to press quite as hard onto the rope to get it cut, the edge will not hit the cutting board as hard.
Thus, the edge is not going to deform as quickly.
Also, since the edge is so thin, you can get away with more edge deformation, because the rest of the edge can compensate more easily for some dull spots. Parts of the edge where micro chips occurred are still thinner than many factory grinds.
The results you see in this video are of course highly specific to the testing environment and would be very different if he had instead cut for example hard wood and cardboard.
Thank you for that answer. Mickey
Thank you for doing these Pete, making me want to invest in a tormek instead of better steels.
Dude, you should try out some opinels in stainless and carbon steel
What "edge shower" thing are you talking about?
"Holy Crap , Batman " Excellent numbers for VG10 . Its a decent steel at around $50 - $60 (U.S.) , but some companies go way overboard with their prices , and I don't know why, Sog has knives with VG10 for $160, "ouch " . You said its a razor blade steel ? Then it should be pretty accessible and cheap , right ??
I've always liked vg10 steel.
Nice video Pete!
umm....yeah....ok, ....I'm getting me a VG-10 knife!
Your vids are great but I like them for the music alone
Great content but the music bursts my tits
Holy cow!
Is it just cause its thinner behind the apex so as it dulls its slowly just moving more towards a 13 or 14 degree angle so its still cutting well?? Im so confused. I dont know whats real anymore someone help me!!
No
Ok so I have a native 5 in s110v. I got a $40 whetstone that has 2000 grit on one side then 6000 on the other. I’ve been sharpening the native for like 30 mins and did an even 120 strokes on 2000 grit then the 6000 grit. Then I used a strop with very fine compound, and it’s barely shaving sharp, what the fuck am I doing wrong?
I have a delica that's about 12 or more.. it's been sharpened so much the belly is about gone but a few passes on a strop always brings it back and I've never just cut rope till it won't anymore but it's the knife that makes me shake my head when people say vg10 isn't a good steel..
Good , very good. But the paper don´t hit back.
What have you done... Now spyderco delica's are going to cost $300. Thanks a bunch Pete...
Come on boys sub to this man. Get more people from BF to come over!
To the MAXXORS !!!!!!
Time to UNLEASH D2 to the extreme since they are similar on the charts as VG10 - Please Pete 😎
Oh nice beanie by the way.
Maybe a harder cutting board wld even the results up
Vg max = Cos ?
VG10 rolls like crazy my a$$. You're right though Pete, that edge is an ugly sucker.
Im here for the kiwi accent, the sailor moon intro and the cats. Wooden spoons make the world go round.
YAAAAAA Mate get outta the shack!!!!
You are getting more cuts because of geometry, not because of better edge retention in a lower angle.
thanks~!
Wowzers
VG10 gets shit on because it's "old," and people are stupid. Look at mid-range retail kitchen knives. Myiabi knives cost $300+. "Budget" Shun Damascus VG10 knives cost $200.
I think fallkniven's VG10 isn't that great thats why VG10 has a bad name. My F1 is micro chipping just from pushing it through wood with much force. Maybe 60 hrc is 1-2 hrc too much for reasonable toughness, i don't know.
Yeah, fuk that electronic edge tester!! I mean it's cool and all, but won't be near as fun! Keep up what your doing my Australian friend lol,
freakin gooooooooo chipeeeeee!!!!
STEEL EXPERTS HATE THIS
What's with the clickbait title..? Parody?