In the USA, just return a product that doesn't have a country of origin. It is illegal not to have a country of origin label and can come with $100k fine for EACH infringement. Also, report them :)
There are some knives made in Japan not stamped "Made in Japan". When I purchased a Takamura in Hakone I was told that some knives aren't stamped with Made in Japan because of distribution and contract reasons.
Interesting and informative video, very educational. I thought you did a great job of taking the high road, not throwing any companies under the bus, and just providing the facts so that people can draw their own conclusions. Very tactfully done.
*I worked as a materials engineer for 5 years. Theoretically all steel/iron has to have a chain of custody back to the point of origin. The point of origin is the mill - and all batches (they're called "heats") must include a Mill Test Report. Included on that report is the chemical composition analysis and the country of origin. After the steel leaves the mill it can go through several processing steps before the end product actually makes it to a consumer. It's common for each step of the process to be done by several third parties; however the Bill of Lading that's required to be included with steel deliveries is supposed to identify the heat number throughout the processing.* The asterisk is because I'm not sure how much effort it would take to get that information within the knife industry, and proprietary information may be an obstacle. I'm not sure anyone would want to put in that level of effort, but I'm pretty confident you could at least figure out the country of origin if you're persistent enough.
Zwilling's Fc61 (fine carbide 61rhc) is changes depending on knife. Miyabi Kazen and Morimoto Fusion are VG10, where the Kramer stainless steel essential is a 13c27. For some reason they just don't want to promote the steel types. Another example is the Miyabi Black series. Mc66 is ZDP189.
I'm not a very good cook, nor do I have very good knife skills, but I do cook at home often, and I do enjoy learning about cutlery and cookware. I'm also smart enough to know that just because I have learned more about high end knives, and can appreciate their beauty, that doesn't mean I should buy one of the better, more expensive ones, since my cooking and knife skills do not warrant the purchase. For now I'm sticking with knives that are appropriate for my budget and skill level, but that doesn't mean I can't research, understand and appreciate the good stuff. Thank you for your time and effort.
Love the new studio setup 👌 Nice video, interesting stuff to learn and it is so cool that you got to meet them! I'd be interested in seeing videos from the visit. I had kinda picked up on the VG10 market issue when looking into steels in the past. It's fun to dig into the process and composition and characteristics of different steels every now and then, would be neat to talk about that in a video, if you were interested in it.
Nice video mate, good work, what knife do you recomend me to buy, I'm a chef so I'll use it almost everyday for long time, I'm looking for a Chef knife, hard steel, old school french style or japanese, I already have a wusthof and I want something for more delicates works, something between 150-350$, and also what Sharpening Stones do yo recomend me to strat with, I already have a 400/1000 but is not a rlly good quality, and I want a good set to take care of my new knife. Cheers mate and continue with your videos rlly great work.
I have been waiting for this video, I just got a Shun Classic Santoku for myself, and a Paring knife for a mate for his birthday, he gave me the biggest bro hug, he's in love with it and said it'll be an heirloom. but wow these knives are beautiful and razor sharp, I'd only ever used Victorinox in the past, this is a whole other level! *HINT* I could happily buy a Shun Chef knife :) I'll even do a review too
Fc61 steel is sanvick 13c26 steel out of Sweden that henckels renamed to fc61. A really good stainless steel. It's suppose to be very similar to aebl steel
The brilliance of this move is that Zwilling can buy 13c26 *or* AEB-L *or* whatever local clone they like. FC61 is whatever Zwilling wants it to be. (Bohler and Sandvik have local inventory, so I doubt there's much need to shift suppliers, but I'm sure it's a handy bargaining chip for pricing orders.) And nobody can copy the branding the way they could if Zwilling advertised "Swedish Razor Steel."
Been waiting for this one and was not disappointed. Another great video. I always suspected VG-Max was essentially rebranded VG-10. It makes sense why they did it now.
According to the Knife Steel Composition app: FC61 (FC-61) is a Henkles rebrand name for Sandvik 13C26 (Sweden) C: 0.68 CR: 13.00 Mn: 0.70 P: 0.025 S: 0.010 Si: 0.40
they are very good, particularely if you are a professionnal chef imo because the handle is steel so more resistant than wood and the steel is a bit softer than your usual japanse chef knife which is good because if you drop it, less chance of snapping the blade (same with the edge, i'd rather a bent edge than a chipped edge while i'm working because i can just do a few passes on my steel if the edge is just bent.
@@rakshas1340 Global's CROMOVA 18 steel is hardened to 56-58 HRC. It has a huge amount of chromium that makes it very rust resistant at the expense of edge retention and sharpness. I still have my Global G2 that I purchased in 1996 when I was a student. It takes a reasonable edge and retains it reasonably well. But due to the relative softness of the CROMOVA you will not get a full on japanese knife performance. They are decent knives though. You need to understand what your main priority is and the think about the downsides that you prepared to live with.
RE: FC61 steel, based on the sparse metallurgical info mentioned in the America's Test Kitchen carbon steel knife vid (Kramer vs Victorinox) and that FC means "fine carbide," my guess is it uses a very similar if not the same process in making the steel, BUT of course with a modification to the alloy composition that allows for it to not crumble when they heat- and cryo-treat the blade to a higher hardness rating.
fun fact till this day i have never seen a shun knife in person here in Germany. miyabi and Zwilling in general are very popular. btw FC-61 is Zwillings rebrand name for the Sandvik 13C26 steel and MC66 Zwillings rebrand name for the ZDP-186 steel both tradenames are owned by Zwilling greetings
REALLY interesting stuff, Ryky! Would love to see more videos with knowledge you've attained that us commoners might otherwise never know. 😋 What do you think of asymmetrical bevels? Is a 70/30 (or 90/10) more or less effective than a 50/50 and why? Since I don't use it much anymore, I'm thinking about making my Tojiro DP asymmetrical, but want to have some good reasons before doing so. 🤙🏼
SIMILAR..... hand forged VG10 will feel much more substantial and hold a better edge than AUS10. factory forged VG10 will feel ever slightly denser, but generally, vg10 will outperform AUS10 in edge retention and feedback
5:25 FC61 is almost certainly AEB-L/13c26 (Razor steel.) It's a great steel for fine edges, if they're making it hard enough. (The name implies "fine carbide, 61 RC," so it should be good in that respect. If it's not something similar to that, I'll eat my hat.) As you've been saying, it's easy to copy the name if it's just a designation of a steel composition. If you don't reveal what the composition is, FC61 just means "proprietary Miyabi steel" and can't be copied. (Someone could easily run an analysis on a knife and buy similar steel, but you can't call it "Miyabi FC61" without demonstrating explicitly that you're copying them.) Also, Zwilling could switch between suppliers (Bohler to Sandvik, in this case) and wouldn't have to say anything about it, *even if the composition or process changes slightly.* FC61 means whatever Zwilling wants it to mean. So long as the consumer trusts Zwilling, they don't have anything to worry about, but this does make it hard to "clone" them so exactly. The same goes, to a certain extent, for VG-Max or any other proprietary alloy.
I bought three types of knives recently. I didn’t know what type I’d like. When I get up I’ll check the brands and where they were made. The chefs knife was great! It is thin and light. The pairing knife is great. The “chopping” knife is a little thick and everything sticks to it.
I agree with you that some manufacturers will say they use VG10 steel and then use a substitute. I am a retired chemist/metallurgist for a very large utility and had problems with suppliers trying to sell us products that did not meet specifications. I would be sent samples from production batches and some would not meet specifications. The consumers do not have test equipment for steel composition like a portable x-ray fluorescence analyzer which gives chemical composition with damaging the sample. I had two laboratory x-ray fluorescence analyzers which could analyze the chemical composition of any kitchen knife. The VG10 composition is 1.0% carbon, 1.% molybednum, 15% chromium, 0.2% vanadium and 1.5% cobalt which is a stainless steel and easy to analyze. I always buy from directly from the knife marker or from a licensed distributor regardless of price.
I believe that anyone can make a very good knife and does not matter which manufacturer so long as works well because years ago made in Japan was considered inferior to made in the US. I know that the Chinese can make good knives for less than made in Japan because of the lower labor costs.
Knives made in China and sold on Amazon using the VG-10 stamp are most likely using 10Cr15CoMov which is a Chinese analog to VG-10, It’s unfortunate, but does happen. It’s the same with Chinese made D2, it’ll be labeled D2, but actually Cr12MoV.
I would be interested in a video concerning the difference between white and blue japanese steel #2. White can get a little bit sharper and the blue one is more durable. But how big is the difference. That would interest me - especially because I bought one of the last Ryky Blue #2 Gyuto 240 and want to treat this beautiful knife right the way I should?
VGMax is basically Shun's rebranding of VG10, Don't expect it to perform too differently from VG10. There are better stainless options than VG10 like AEBL that I would advise you looking into. In my experience, VG10 is harder to sharpen, and chips somewhat easily.
Hi there, Ryki, Since you aquired the katana and announced that you were going to learn to sharpen it I have not seen a video from you addressing the technique to sharpen a sword. I practice Pekitit Tirsia Kali and own some knives and a Ginunting (20’’ blade) and I would really appreciate if you could showe us the way to sharpen that kind of blade using whetstones. The blade is too long for the width of the stones and I do not want to damage the blade. It would be much appreciated. Love your channel and the passion you convey -even when you look tired. Thank you in advance!
I bought a knife on Amazon thinking I was buying a Japanese knife with VG10 damascus steel. The knife I received, the box stated made in China. The brochure inside stated it was HRC56 not the HRC62 I expected. It also stated it was made out of German steel. What a rip off. I sent it back.
I have about 10-12 knives, from shuns-masahiro to global-wusthof and between. I bought a knife on wish just to try it out for ca $50 with vg-10 and the feeling I get from the core is it is as hard as my shun. I haven't used it a lot yet but this far I must say I like it. But it won't go in my knife bag for work but at home, absolutely.
Really interesting video. Sucks how the market got so saturated, but I'm happy they found out a way to set themselves apart from the knockoffs. One of my greatest fears in buying these pricey knives is that there are so many fakes. And I'm one hella unlucky person, so I'm sure to get a phony. Thanks again for the info!
Came here because a Japan Surplus shop near me sells a KAI 0702 VG-Max Damascus Santoku 7" What do you thing about the KAI brand... Learned a lot from your channel, I got the advantage of knowing brands like Kyocera so everytime I see one in good condition, I buy it and resell it.
How do you categorize Dalstrong knives? They would seem to be in the category you are describing as a knife made in China using Japanese steel. Not sure if they identify themselves as a Chinese company or not.
Have you been following the development of wootz in recent years, the difference between regular steel and wootz was only something like .8 percent inclusion of vanadium in the smelting process, thats a tiny percentage which gave the wootz steel legendary status across the globe at a time when there wasn't even internet. Don't be fooled into thinking a small percentage makes no difference. In metallurgical terms it's giant. I'm still interested in the dollar knives too btw. Fingers kinda crossed. Although, I am considering selling my shuns and Kai's to pick up one of the zdp189 black blades, do you have any thoughts on choosing either a bunka or gyuto for someone that usually uses a kai santoku and shun carving knife, I have the kai 5" paring and bread knife too but I will have to sell them all, these have been my primary kitchen blades? I already know how tough zdp can be to sharpen, so would just like your thoughts on the knife choice in general, I am leaning towards gyuto because it's a tad cheaper but a bit longer than the bunka, and the bunka is I think about the same as my santoku, but the gyuto only a few mm longer than the shun carving. In theory it's choosing to pick something to match what I would pick of the two I already have but thats actually not as easy as I thought given that I will only have that one blade for a while going forwards.
Hi Ricky and interesting talk on VG steels I have a question if a knife is described as being made with Japanese stainless steel and a Rockwell of 53 what steel would it be most likely be made from .Regards Dena from Oz
Love your channel Ryky ! I was hoping you would do a short segment on maintaining the wooden handle on certain knives, particularly Japanese. Recently bought Miyabi Birchwood and Takefu Village artisan, and want to ensure the beautiful wooden handles are taken care of as much as the blade. Also applies somewhat to my Shun's, but as these have more of a laquered finish, not as critical. Best way to protect the "raw wood" finish. Would imagine it would be much the same care as for your cutting boards ?
Burr, This video answered a question I've been wanting to answer for sometime. Long story short I grew up in a Cutco family that loved knives that "never needed sharpening". After getting sick of trying to trim briskets with a dull paring knife...or a serrated blade I stumbled onto your channel...and found Dalstrong. Over the next 3 years I replaced every functional knife with Dalstrong, which I was expecting to be VG10...yet the blades all read AUS10V. I love the knives but that always puzzled me. I've since moved on to a block that is full of Enzo, Miyabi, Wusthof and a touch of Shun & Kramer. I might add that each step from Cutco->Dalstrong-> Enso/Shun/Wusthof/Miyabi aren't small they are gigantic leaps! And I'm selling most of my Dalstrong collection....but I'm keeping the 8" Shogun Series X Chef knife! Thank you. One question down 9,976 to go!
I really like the in depth videos as well. I would mind hearing your thoughts on carbon steel in general and perhaps the different Japanese steels, blue and white paper steels.
Shun knives are exceptional. I have become so fond of them. For most people, I suggest making life simple and buy Shun knives, they are awesome. I doubt you will ever regret it.
VG-10 is one of my favorite stainless steels. Probably because of the sheer value you get out of it for the money if the steel is well-treated. I guess oversaturation is somewhat responsible for the low prices but, at the same time as you said, its reputation is not so good now because of the many bad "VG-10" knives. Having had one of those Chinese knives myself to see what it was like, there is a huge difference between one of those and...say, a Yoshihiro. The Chinese santoku was incredibly thick, like stupidly beefy, and weighed almost 2x as much as my Yoshihiro nakiri due to the heavy G10 handle (advertised as "light"). There was nearly no distal taper to speak of, the knife face down to the blade road had a very subtle and gentle slope but it was almost like the maker ran out of blade road before getting to the edge, so there was a very sudden shoulder that established the edge bevel. The spine was almost 4mm thick, so you can imagine it wedged like hell. There was also barely enough knuckle clearance, you needed to pinch or else your knuckles would cause you to start getting accordion cuts in your green onions when cutting with the heel. The steel was actually not too bad because it was not hard to sharpen and it could hold an edge, but it would require so much work to turn it into a decent performer that it would not be worth the price. It was like a cleaver that got mushed into a "santoku" shape and the whole thing felt odd, almost hardened plasticine, despite it feeling sturdy. Just a big ol' metal hunk with a much bigger focus on polish and F&F without any thought put into usability and cutting ability. It just looks all shiny but if any amateur started using this knife and then picked up a Konosuke or something, no sane person would choose this knife. My Yoshihiro nakiri was my first VG-10 knife and one of the ones I still reach for first despite it being almost like a beater knife to me. Ol' reliable. The heat treat is excellent. Personally, I have seen chipping issues with many Shuns, which is why I didn't get one. Quite thin behind the edge but no chipping issues whatsoever even though I do things I shouldn't, like mash garlic and ginger with the flat (possibly bending the edge whenever I do so), sharpens easily despite the fact that it doesn't readily take a noticeable conventional burr. Since Shun and Yoshihiro are hardened to apparently similar levels, I am not sure what causes the chippiness issues I saw in earlier Shuns. In any case, I would choose my beater nakiri over a Shun due to the dramatically lighter weight. Simple triple-riveted wooden scale handle is preferable to me over the heavy synthetic material in the Shun handle. I do find it a little sad that VG-10 has such a bad reputation among many circles because of poor examples produced by some careless makers. When well-treated, VG-10 makes an incredible knife material, especially for the typically low cost. TojiroDP knives are a good example. I have a bad VG-10 knife myself, a Japanese-made Ikeuti En single-beveled funayuki/petty. The edge is incredibly frail and the blade is even a little curved. I got it for $15 on clearance on the Japan woodworker site so I didn't expect anything breathtaking but the thing is nearly unusable, worse than any Chinese knife. It comes with a bright orange grippy cover over the wa handle. It chips like a stale saltine on anything no matter how gently I sharpen, even on a hinoki board and even if I put a microbevel on it, and has stayed this way through about 10 sharpenings. It chips soon after sharpening to matter what I cut--bananas, salami, green onions, peppers, you name it. It will probably chip if you look at it wrong. It also steers in a slightly different way than a properly made straight single-bevel. So it is useless except for cutting small, soft ingredients. I use this one for sharpening practice and have been trying to gradually work on it to make it usable. I really don't know how it made it past QC unless some first-year apprentice was responsible for this monstrosity.
Great explanation, I also have come across a couple chinese so-called VG-10 knives, one tell-tale difference is the steel can become stained or tarnished quicker, had one that exhibited a very slight pink/purple color after hand washing.
I think it's not a reliable indicator because "fake VG-10" can be a wide variety of different steels. IMO a more reliable indicator is how the knife behaves over the stones, how well-designed it is for cutting, and how balanced it is. I have used and handled some Chinese "fake" knives that do have rather decent steel. They were just still awful knives because of many clear poor choices in design. Their selling point was their appearance, mirror polish, fancy packaging, and unique looks. Meanwhile, many of even the best Japanese knives arrive in a simple oblong cardboard box adorned with a few kanji and secured with rubber bands and newspaper. Sometimes just a plain black cardboard box you would think nothing about if you saw it in a bin somewhere. If it looks all pretty-super-sparkly but it's stupid thick behind the edge, has no knuckle clearance, feels uncomfortable to use....probably Chinese. Often, you can tell after just a small prep session. The difference from a good Japanese knife is like night and day. A good knife maker prioritizes cutting ability and user comfort because the knife is a tool, and at relatively low price ranges, like below $100, there is little to work with in terms of sheer polish and amazing aesthetics if the knife is still supposed to be a good knife. If it's too good to be true, it probably is. Super well-designed knife with excellent heat treatment, 70 HRC, house-made damascus cladding, and a thoughtful edge geometry is not likely for a $50 knife with a brand you've never heard of. Sadly, when people who don't cook much or don't know much about knives buys a Chinese fake, they don't know any better than to think it's a good knife since it's still probably better than their old $20 Walmart knives. They see it on Facebook or Amazon and go "ooo shiny and it's only $50" and they get it and praise it.
This conclusion surprises me since VG-Max and VG-10 have quite different compositions. From zknives: "VG-MAX takes Takefu VG-10 steel as its base and increases several alloying element percentages, which should result in increased performance. Most notably, W and V are both at 3%, and Cobalt is increased to 2.5%. There's also slight increase in Cr and Mo content, but not as prominent as the former three." Perhaps these changes make little difference in practice, but that seems unlikely.
John Wilkinson: I'm guessing they were one of the Chinese companies that stopped receiving VG-10. I have a Shogun X 8" chef's knife in AUS-10V. The steel seems fine, but I don't care for the profile so it's in the box until I find someone who wants it.
John Wilkinson: It turns out that the combination of the high tip/wide blade/constant radius of their chef's knife makes it feel shorter than it is, and like I'm working "downhill". I really wanted to love this *_gorgeous_* knife, but because I know I don't like using it, i have enough knives that I do like so I don't have to force myself. I guess that's a great reason to try before you buy if possible.
FC61 is probably AEB-L/13c26 from sweden or something very close to it and to your point, no one (or only a very minuscule portion) in the market for a Masakage, Tanaka, Takamura etc VG10 lines is really going to be considering anything from China. This is def a problem for the big name brands like Shun though. Then again those in the market for hand forged knives probably aren't looking at VG10 anyway...
So that's why I've been seeing AUS10V! Concerning VG-MAX I thought higher Co was one of the differences, along with higher hardness now, pretty darn close to that new Cos steel to if ya ask me... 🤔
Hi! Do you or anyone else have any experience with ZDP - 189? It should have a really good HRC but for me it doesn't seem to retain the sharpnes as long as one would expect.
So that's why knivesandtools changed their Eden knife series to aus10 all of a sudden. Now I'm not sure if what I got is actual vg10,they feel so different compared to my tojiro dp3. Good thing I'm going for a white nr2 from sakai takayuki or sakai kikumori (still need to hold both side by side to make the final choice)
The reason Takefu sells VG10 steel outside Japan is simple: They do not want to controll by 1~2 big customers like Shun. This is totally business consideration. And why I know this? because I am working in kitchen knife industry.
Coming from the pocketknife world of folders and fixed blades, I wonder why there’s so much buzz around VG10 when many of the high end pocketknives have sailed far beyond vg10 (which is now considered an “old super steel”) are using s45vn, s90v, or some high end carbon steels like cpm3v, etc, which seem to have better edge retention and toughness properties than vg10. Can anyone explain? Sorry for my naïveté.
I bought a few cause of his review. I'm not that happy with them. One of them came very dull. They sent me a replacement. I was wanting a show piece knife for serving. I got the Shogun series and the Damascus looked more like an etching. The Gladiator knife had a better gripping handle and seemed sharper out of the box. Both knife lines were over priced for what you get. I'll stick with my Zwilling and Wustof. I may try Shun or Myabi next time for a showpiece knife for serving.
@@terryanderson9037 look up Sakai Takayuki knives I have one of their VG10 Damascus clad knives it is a great knife easy to get a razor edge and holds the edge well I bought mine off Ebay shipped from Japan at a very good price will definitely buy another one.
@@robertwalker1333 Sakai Takayuki make some decent knives but the out of the box sharpness is not as high as other brands. (That does not bother me.) In terms of out of the box sharpness Masakage has blown me away. They are all sharpened by Takayuki Shibata who is regarded as one of the very best sharpeners in all of Japan. This is a really good piece about how he assesses a knife's sharpness. It is a technique I have adopted myself. knifewear.com/blogs/news/canadas-next-top-knife-sharpener
I'm a fan of BD1N. I can't tell the difference between sharpening it and VG-10, even though it's a couple Rockwells harder. I'm not the best to advise on edge retention, as I strop my knives every few uses. I don't have any experience with SG2, but if I upgrade my VG-10 I'd love to try SG2. Have heard great things about it.
Hi experts , I got a Takahara (a rebrand from another brand) it says kumadori on the outside and inside it says blue #2 210mm gyuto but i don’t see it says make in Japan. Anyone knows? Thanks
I believe selling products in the US without a country of origin is illegal. So right off the bat, you should return any knife without a country of origin.
Looks like you havent bought a pair of oakleys recently. The rules dont apply if the materials are from a different country then the manufacturer. Similar to the made in the usa with global materials stamps and stickers on tools.
@@kiellegg8218 Actually, Ryarios is Correct. ALL products that are IMPORTED have to have a country of Origin on them AS of now, 70% of Oakleys are still made in the USA, and THOSE are NOT imported and do not need a Country of Origin on the Box. THose Tools that say made in USA of foreign Materials are also not Imported. THe materials that they were made of that were imported had to have a country of origin on their "BOX". The finished tool is not being Imported as the end product. In fact, in many cases, the country of origin is required to be ON THE Imported ITEM.
The Chinese might start using the VG-Max name the way they did with VG-10. They might even start putting "Made in Japan" on some of their knives and boxes, if they aren't doing it already.
I agree that VG10 and VG Max "feel" the same. VG MAX is primarily just a marketing term that Shun uses to make themselves "special". Shun unfairly got a bad name because people who didn't have skill and didn't know how to use a knife properly, chipped them. 99.99% were the customers fault, not a defect of materials and manufacture. it was shun marketed to the wrong people. So Shun had to change their image a bit. I HIGHLY agree with ryky about the issue of people using the name VG10, about the fraudulent use of the trademark. You will also see some knives from a certain country with American marketing companies claiming that a similar formula is "Japanese" steel just line many manufacturers are claiming the same formula of steel as DIN 1.4116 is "German steel" or even "Krups Thyssen 4116" even thou it was NOT made by Krups and not made in Germany. (no coincidentally it's the same country) I agree with ryky. It is NOT that Chinese can't make good knives. they can IF they CHOOSE to or IF a contractor forces them to follow proper processes. Spyderco makes GREAT stuff from China. The trouble is that MOST knives coming from China do NOT care about quality, they care about numbers and how it looks because they are catering to a gullible buyer who doensn't know any better and couldn't tell the difference if they had it in their hands BUY WISELY DO NOT FALL FOR A FALSE SENSE OF "ECONOMY" THERE IS A BIG DIFFERNE BETWEEN BEING FRUGAL AND BEING CHEAP
I have a Sakai Takayuki VG 10 160mm I use it for the majority of my cooking I am not gentle with it I have only had to fix a couple of minor nicks in the 2 years I have owned it, There are a couple of Chinese made knives that I like the style of but the worry about the quality puts me off, It is a shame that the Chinese can not be trusted because they do make some very fine products but most people will not buy them because of the outright scumbags running the businesses and country, Does anyone know any Chinese Knife companies that can be trusted.
powdered steel metalurgy is one way to make a high speed steel. It is a METHOD of manufacture. High speed steels are "CLASS" of steels, no matter what their manufacturing METHOD, that have high hardness, do not lose their temper with normal heat ranges, and have decent toughness. Even drill bits, electrical wire and saw blades can be powdered metal or can be high speed steel. That doesn't mean they make a good knife. Not all high speed steels or powdered steels are good for knives AND not all are good for culinary knives as opposed to outdoor knives. A steel that makes a GREAT outdoor knife might make a poor culinary knife. Again most knife buyers don't understand that harder is not always better, there are MANY other factors
HR Hamada Knives kinda suffer from the same disease fountain pens and other luxury goods have: there's a lot of expensive crap out there, an enormous amount to choose from, and no obvious "here's the one everyone who knows anything would be happy to recommend as a high end but attainable and not ostentatious product." I'm curious if these high maintenence steels with edge retention are even the best choice for the home chef, who chops probably max 15 minutes a day. Maybe stainless steel is just better for a normal person who doesn't want to worry about not drying off a knife quick enough. But then every hobbiest wants to play with what the professionals use.
@@CaptainWumbo Professional probably still use German Knives at least as often as any other. THEY are not as hard - but in return they Can get very sharp, are easier to sharpen, and work well with a good Honing Rod. However, My R2SG2 knives are far harder to sharpen than Vg10 knives, and they tend to lose that last 5% of their sharpness fairly quickly before they settle down for a while. And because most powder steel is expensive to begin with, manufacturers tend to use it in really top end Hand Made product that make them VERY expensive and IF all you are going to do is chop a few minutes a day, it is overkill. To me, with maybe the exception of the Tojiro R2 line, these things are TROPHY Knives that end up displayed but NEVER used. I do not know of one Professional who regularly uses only these very expensive knives for work. I bought mine years ago when they were still "affordable". BUT My workhorse Knives are still Tojiro DP knives. (But I am over 6'8" and a BIG person as well.) The DP still retain their edge better than other similar knives, are easy to sharpen, and I have yet to get one to rust.
@@svn5994 I've tried to post like four times with an answer but youtube keeps clearing the typing so I'll make this short. You and I basically agree that M2 and M4 are ingot steel. I NEVER said they were PM steel. I said HIGH SPEED STEEL is also different than PM steel and that SG2/R2 are PM. I re-read my post several times and no where did I ever make the claim that M2 and M4 are PM. (and we agree on that, it's just that you put words in my mouth that I never said.)
Some china knivemakers make really good job. Vg-10 from grandsharp or amber very similar to japan knives and cost around 50 bucks. I think if you can see some reviews and save money its good. Sorry for my bad english
I would have bought Shun but, their handles are ugly imo. I went with Yaxell instead. Still not as flashy of a handle as I wanted but, the quality and materials were more important. Both had what I wanted (at my price point) but the Yaxell looks better in the end. Plus the Yaxell Mon block set is way too affordable to pass up.
Really depends on what you like in a steel. Best carbon steel overall is probably aogami super (blue Super) because of edge retention (which white steels dont have as much of) and because it's easy to sharpen and gets very sharp. White 2 is often said to be the easiest to sharpen as and white 1 is supposed to get the sharpest due to its high purity. Best stainless is probably ZDP 189 in terms of sharpness and edge retention but it is also a pain in the ass to sharpen from what ive heard. R2/SG2 would take my vote for best stainless because it has crazy edge reyention and is very easy to sharpen. It's also used by many skilled makers(Takeshi saji for example). Custom makers tend to use 52100 a lot too which says a lot about its quality although idk much about it.
Hello, thank you for your videos and Illuminating facts. I would like to ask you a few questions and make you a few suggestions. questions: 1. How to sharp a boning knife? 2. I have a crack in the edge of a cleaver (got banged by a rock), how can I sharpen it to get a clean edge back? 3. I understand that you appreciate Murry Carter but I saw a big difference between the two of you, he claims that one can sharpen a knife within one or two minutes at the most, but your sharpening sessions takes 20 or 30 minutes? Why is that? suggestions: 1. Keep your videos not more than 10 minutes long. I think that with proper editing you will be able to summarize and make them more watchable and less time-consuming. 2. You recommend products from Amazon, I think the eBay platform has much more collection to offer, and since I do not live in the USA I prefer to purchase on eBay. Perhaps I can suggest that you start exploring the eBay platform? Thanks.
Unless YOU have a dedicated set up of Whetstones to sharpen your knives, I just do not see how you can properly and completely sharpen a high end knife in a couple of minutes. Especially Powder Steel Knives that simply will not sharpen that quickly period. I use at least 3 different stones and it takes longer than 2 minutes to change the stones for me. Of course I am 83 too but that does not make that much of a difference.
This type of videos, altough different, are really interesting for those who want to learn about knvies overall. Thanks
Please do a knife metal tier list!!!!! That would be fascinating.
In the USA, just return a product that doesn't have a country of origin.
It is illegal not to have a country of origin label and can come with $100k fine for EACH infringement.
Also, report them :)
social3ngin33rin guess what country was the “primary” reason for the implementation😂
@@MrBLAA its cause they know people will think they are rubbish knives when its not the truth
I'm really liking the in-depth videos.
Thank you.
Question, Will you do a video of of pocket knife sharpening and care?
There are some knives made in Japan not stamped "Made in Japan". When I purchased a Takamura in Hakone I was told that some knives aren't stamped with Made in Japan because of distribution and contract reasons.
Interesting and informative video, very educational. I thought you did a great job of taking the high road, not throwing any companies under the bus, and just providing the facts so that people can draw their own conclusions. Very tactfully done.
*I worked as a materials engineer for 5 years. Theoretically all steel/iron has to have a chain of custody back to the point of origin. The point of origin is the mill - and all batches (they're called "heats") must include a Mill Test Report. Included on that report is the chemical composition analysis and the country of origin. After the steel leaves the mill it can go through several processing steps before the end product actually makes it to a consumer. It's common for each step of the process to be done by several third parties; however the Bill of Lading that's required to be included with steel deliveries is supposed to identify the heat number throughout the processing.*
The asterisk is because I'm not sure how much effort it would take to get that information within the knife industry, and proprietary information may be an obstacle. I'm not sure anyone would want to put in that level of effort, but I'm pretty confident you could at least figure out the country of origin if you're persistent enough.
Zwilling's Fc61 (fine carbide 61rhc) is changes depending on knife. Miyabi Kazen and Morimoto Fusion are VG10, where the Kramer stainless steel essential is a 13c27. For some reason they just don't want to promote the steel types. Another example is the Miyabi Black series. Mc66 is ZDP189.
I'm not a very good cook, nor do I have very good knife skills, but I do cook at home often, and I do enjoy learning about cutlery and cookware. I'm also smart enough to know that just because I have learned more about high end knives, and can appreciate their beauty, that doesn't mean I should buy one of the better, more expensive ones, since my cooking and knife skills do not warrant the purchase. For now I'm sticking with knives that are appropriate for my budget and skill level, but that doesn't mean I can't research, understand and appreciate the good stuff. Thank you for your time and effort.
Love the new studio setup 👌 Nice video, interesting stuff to learn and it is so cool that you got to meet them! I'd be interested in seeing videos from the visit.
I had kinda picked up on the VG10 market issue when looking into steels in the past. It's fun to dig into the process and composition and characteristics of different steels every now and then, would be neat to talk about that in a video, if you were interested in it.
That clears up so much. Thank you for the detailed in-depth videos. Keep up the good work.
Nice video mate, good work, what knife do you recomend me to buy, I'm a chef so I'll use it almost everyday for long time, I'm looking for a Chef knife, hard steel, old school french style or japanese, I already have a wusthof and I want something for more delicates works, something between 150-350$, and also what Sharpening Stones do yo recomend me to strat with, I already have a 400/1000 but is not a rlly good quality, and I want a good set to take care of my new knife.
Cheers mate and continue with your videos rlly great work.
Love the new chats! Does this new information change your views on Dalstrong at all? Do you still recommend them?
If they pays him enough money lol.
I have been waiting for this video, I just got a Shun Classic Santoku for myself, and a Paring knife for a mate for his birthday, he gave me the biggest bro hug, he's in love with it and said it'll be an heirloom. but wow these knives are beautiful and razor sharp, I'd only ever used Victorinox in the past, this is a whole other level! *HINT* I could happily buy a Shun Chef knife :) I'll even do a review too
Hello I had seen you post video a few years back on cutting board you bought how is your cutting board today
FC61 Steel Composition And Reference Data:
C: 0,68; Cr: 13,00; Mn: 0,70;
P: 0,02; S: 0,01; Si: 0,40;
Maker: Sandvik - Sweden (SE)
Notes:
Henckel rebrand name for the Sandvik 13C26 steel.
Cross-References:
Known Aliases:
FC-61
Proprietary:
Bohler-Uddeholm - AEB-L
Bohler-Uddeholm - N-611
Bohler-Uddeholm - N611
Hitachi - PS60
Hitachi - PS-60
Lone Wolf - LV-02
Outokumpu - SF.100
Sandvik - 13C26
Fc61 steel is sanvick 13c26 steel out of Sweden that henckels renamed to fc61. A really good stainless steel. It's suppose to be very similar to aebl steel
yes 13c26 is very similar to aebl. i think it's just their name for it. there's also 14c28n which is somewhat of an improvement to 13c26
The brilliance of this move is that Zwilling can buy 13c26 *or* AEB-L *or* whatever local clone they like. FC61 is whatever Zwilling wants it to be. (Bohler and Sandvik have local inventory, so I doubt there's much need to shift suppliers, but I'm sure it's a handy bargaining chip for pricing orders.)
And nobody can copy the branding the way they could if Zwilling advertised "Swedish Razor Steel."
Been waiting for this one and was not disappointed. Another great video. I always suspected VG-Max was essentially rebranded VG-10. It makes sense why they did it now.
According to the Knife Steel Composition app:
FC61 (FC-61) is a Henkles rebrand name for Sandvik 13C26 (Sweden)
C: 0.68
CR: 13.00
Mn: 0.70
P: 0.025
S: 0.010
Si: 0.40
Hi I'm sorry I might be wrong but I see global knives in the background. Is there any review on them. Of not could we please get a review
they are very good, particularely if you are a professionnal chef imo because the handle is steel so more resistant than wood and the steel is a bit softer than your usual japanse chef knife which is good because if you drop it, less chance of snapping the blade (same with the edge, i'd rather a bent edge than a chipped edge while i'm working because i can just do a few passes on my steel if the edge is just bent.
@@rakshas1340 Global's CROMOVA 18 steel is hardened to 56-58 HRC. It has a huge amount of chromium that makes it very rust resistant at the expense of edge retention and sharpness. I still have my Global G2 that I purchased in 1996 when I was a student. It takes a reasonable edge and retains it reasonably well. But due to the relative softness of the CROMOVA you will not get a full on japanese knife performance. They are decent knives though. You need to understand what your main priority is and the think about the downsides that you prepared to live with.
Would you please compare your experience with VG-10 knives with SG2 knives? Thanks!
RE: FC61 steel, based on the sparse metallurgical info mentioned in the America's Test Kitchen carbon steel knife vid (Kramer vs Victorinox) and that FC means "fine carbide," my guess is it uses a very similar if not the same process in making the steel, BUT of course with a modification to the alloy composition that allows for it to not crumble when they heat- and cryo-treat the blade to a higher hardness rating.
fun fact till this day i have never seen a shun knife in person here in Germany. miyabi and Zwilling in general are very popular. btw FC-61 is Zwillings rebrand name for the Sandvik 13C26 steel and MC66 Zwillings rebrand name for the ZDP-186 steel both tradenames are owned by Zwilling greetings
REALLY interesting stuff, Ryky! Would love to see more videos with knowledge you've attained that us commoners might otherwise never know. 😋
What do you think of asymmetrical bevels? Is a 70/30 (or 90/10) more or less effective than a 50/50 and why? Since I don't use it much anymore, I'm thinking about making my Tojiro DP asymmetrical, but want to have some good reasons before doing so. 🤙🏼
Love your videos, very informative. I’m becoming a big fan! So what is the difference between VG10 and AUS10 in terms of performance and manufacture?
SIMILAR..... hand forged VG10 will feel much more substantial and hold a better edge than AUS10. factory forged VG10 will feel ever slightly denser, but generally, vg10 will outperform AUS10 in edge retention and feedback
5:25 FC61 is almost certainly AEB-L/13c26 (Razor steel.) It's a great steel for fine edges, if they're making it hard enough. (The name implies "fine carbide, 61 RC," so it should be good in that respect. If it's not something similar to that, I'll eat my hat.)
As you've been saying, it's easy to copy the name if it's just a designation of a steel composition. If you don't reveal what the composition is, FC61 just means "proprietary Miyabi steel" and can't be copied. (Someone could easily run an analysis on a knife and buy similar steel, but you can't call it "Miyabi FC61" without demonstrating explicitly that you're copying them.)
Also, Zwilling could switch between suppliers (Bohler to Sandvik, in this case) and wouldn't have to say anything about it, *even if the composition or process changes slightly.* FC61 means whatever Zwilling wants it to mean. So long as the consumer trusts Zwilling, they don't have anything to worry about, but this does make it hard to "clone" them so exactly. The same goes, to a certain extent, for VG-Max or any other proprietary alloy.
C: 0,68; Cr: 13,00; Mn: 0,70;
P: 0,02; S: 0,01; Si: 0,40;
Maker: Sandvik - Sweden (SE)
Notes:
Henckel rebrand name for the Sandvik 13C26 steel.
Cross-References:
Known Aliases:
FC-61
Proprietary:
Bohler-Uddeholm - AEB-L
Bohler-Uddeholm - N-611
Bohler-Uddeholm - N611
Hitachi - PS60
Hitachi - PS-60
Lone Wolf - LV-02
Outokumpu - SF.100
Sandvik - 13C26
I bought three types of knives recently. I didn’t know what type I’d like. When I get up I’ll check the brands and where they were made. The chefs knife was great! It is thin and light. The pairing knife is great. The “chopping” knife is a little thick and everything sticks to it.
I agree with you that some manufacturers will say they use VG10 steel and then use a substitute. I am a retired chemist/metallurgist for a very large utility and had problems with suppliers trying to sell us products that did not meet specifications. I would be sent samples from production batches and some would not meet specifications. The consumers do not have test equipment for steel composition like a portable x-ray fluorescence analyzer which gives chemical composition with damaging the sample. I had two laboratory x-ray fluorescence analyzers which could analyze the chemical composition of any kitchen knife. The VG10 composition is 1.0% carbon, 1.% molybednum, 15% chromium, 0.2% vanadium and 1.5% cobalt which is a stainless steel and easy to analyze. I always buy from directly from the knife marker or from a licensed distributor regardless of price.
I believe that anyone can make a very good knife and does not matter which manufacturer so long as works well because years ago made in Japan was considered inferior to made in the US. I know that the Chinese can make good knives for less than made in Japan because of the lower labor costs.
What do you think of tamahagane blades?
Knives made in China and sold on Amazon using the VG-10 stamp are most likely using 10Cr15CoMov which is a Chinese analog to VG-10, It’s unfortunate, but does happen.
It’s the same with Chinese made D2, it’ll be labeled D2, but actually Cr12MoV.
fc61 is a sandvik (swedish) steel. There is an app called knife steel composition with the logo of FE (26) and a knife on it. Very valuable for uses
I would be interested in a video concerning the difference between white and blue japanese steel #2. White can get a little bit sharper and the blue one is more durable. But how big is the difference. That would interest me - especially because I bought one of the last Ryky Blue #2 Gyuto 240 and want to treat this beautiful knife right the way I should?
Any updates on your knife? Any eta?
VGMax is basically Shun's rebranding of VG10, Don't expect it to perform too differently from VG10. There are better stainless options than VG10 like AEBL that I would advise you looking into. In my experience, VG10 is harder to sharpen, and chips somewhat easily.
Should a kitchen knife made of Rex 121 @ 70hrc exist? What you think??
Can i trust Miyabi brand ? I found one with FC61steel, is that steel still mistery steel after 4 years passed ? Is it much worse than vg10?
I’m more of a folder knife guy but just got my wife a couple shun premier knives for Christmas. She’s also a sue chef but these are for home.
Hi there, Ryki,
Since you aquired the katana and announced that you were going to learn to sharpen it I have not seen a video from you addressing the technique to sharpen a sword. I practice Pekitit Tirsia Kali and own some knives and a Ginunting (20’’ blade) and I would really appreciate if you could showe us the way to sharpen that kind of blade using whetstones. The blade is too long for the width of the stones and I do not want to damage the blade. It would be much appreciated. Love your channel and the passion you convey -even when you look tired. Thank you in advance!
I bought a knife on Amazon thinking I was buying a Japanese knife with VG10 damascus steel. The knife I received, the box stated made in China. The brochure inside stated it was HRC56 not the HRC62 I expected. It also stated it was made out of German steel. What a rip off. I sent it back.
I have about 10-12 knives, from shuns-masahiro to global-wusthof and between. I bought a knife on wish just to try it out for ca $50 with vg-10 and the feeling I get from the core is it is as hard as my shun. I haven't used it a lot yet but this far I must say I like it. But it won't go in my knife bag for work but at home, absolutely.
What knife did you buy? How's it held up?
Yo burr .. I just got a cold steel vg10 san mai 12" tanto ... Any opinions ? On quality and edge life
How about the ORIENT knife? is it good? The logo was catchy... tiger head.. while dalstrong..lion head :D
Really interesting video. Sucks how the market got so saturated, but I'm happy they found out a way to set themselves apart from the knockoffs. One of my greatest fears in buying these pricey knives is that there are so many fakes. And I'm one hella unlucky person, so I'm sure to get a phony. Thanks again for the info!
Yes!! More steel talk please!
You mentioned Masakage a bunch of times in this video, do you plan on reviewing more knives from more artisanal knife makers?
Masakage and Fujiwara knives have some serious blades, especially Super Blue Steel
Came here because a Japan Surplus shop near me sells a KAI 0702 VG-Max Damascus Santoku 7"
What do you thing about the KAI brand... Learned a lot from your channel, I got the advantage of knowing brands like Kyocera so everytime I see one in good condition, I buy it and resell it.
How do you categorize Dalstrong knives? They would seem to be in the category you are describing as a knife made in China using Japanese steel. Not sure if they identify themselves as a Chinese company or not.
Thank you for the up front summary!
So I'm curious what's your thoughts on delstrong knifes?
Have you been following the development of wootz in recent years, the difference between regular steel and wootz was only something like .8 percent inclusion of vanadium in the smelting process, thats a tiny percentage which gave the wootz steel legendary status across the globe at a time when there wasn't even internet. Don't be fooled into thinking a small percentage makes no difference. In metallurgical terms it's giant.
I'm still interested in the dollar knives too btw. Fingers kinda crossed.
Although, I am considering selling my shuns and Kai's to pick up one of the zdp189 black blades, do you have any thoughts on choosing either a bunka or gyuto for someone that usually uses a kai santoku and shun carving knife, I have the kai 5" paring and bread knife too but I will have to sell them all, these have been my primary kitchen blades? I already know how tough zdp can be to sharpen, so would just like your thoughts on the knife choice in general, I am leaning towards gyuto because it's a tad cheaper but a bit longer than the bunka, and the bunka is I think about the same as my santoku, but the gyuto only a few mm longer than the shun carving. In theory it's choosing to pick something to match what I would pick of the two I already have but thats actually not as easy as I thought given that I will only have that one blade for a while going forwards.
Hi Ricky and interesting talk on VG steels I have a question if a knife is described as being made with Japanese stainless steel and a Rockwell of 53 what steel would it be most likely be made from .Regards Dena from Oz
Im guessing you have a baccarat knife maybe from House made in China
Love your channel Ryky !
I was hoping you would do a short segment on maintaining the wooden handle on certain knives, particularly Japanese.
Recently bought Miyabi Birchwood and Takefu Village artisan, and want to ensure the beautiful wooden handles are taken care of as much as the blade.
Also applies somewhat to my Shun's, but as these have more of a laquered finish, not as critical.
Best way to protect the "raw wood" finish.
Would imagine it would be much the same care as for your cutting boards ?
Dudeeeeee this video is actually brilliant. Ty man great watch.
Much appreciated!
I really like this long form, informative type video.
Burr, This video answered a question I've been wanting to answer for sometime. Long story short I grew up in a Cutco family that loved knives that "never needed sharpening". After getting sick of trying to trim briskets with a dull paring knife...or a serrated blade I stumbled onto your channel...and found Dalstrong. Over the next 3 years I replaced every functional knife with Dalstrong, which I was expecting to be VG10...yet the blades all read AUS10V. I love the knives but that always puzzled me. I've since moved on to a block that is full of Enzo, Miyabi, Wusthof and a touch of Shun & Kramer.
I might add that each step from Cutco->Dalstrong-> Enso/Shun/Wusthof/Miyabi aren't small they are gigantic leaps!
And I'm selling most of my Dalstrong collection....but I'm keeping the 8" Shogun Series X Chef knife!
Thank you. One question down 9,976 to go!
I wonder if you sold your junk Dalstrong set.
It's known to be trash. But there are so many fools out there.
I really like the in depth videos as well. I would mind hearing your thoughts on carbon steel in general and perhaps the different Japanese steels, blue and white paper steels.
FC-61 or FC61 is Henckel rebrand of Sandvik 13C26 steel.
13C26 is similar to Uddeholm AEB-L, both are most used in fixed blade knives.
nice! thank you
FC61 super steel is imported from Sweden to japan to make knives in case anyone is wondering .
Shun knives are exceptional. I have become so fond of them. For most people, I suggest making life simple and buy Shun knives, they are awesome. I doubt you will ever regret it.
VG-10 is one of my favorite stainless steels. Probably because of the sheer value you get out of it for the money if the steel is well-treated. I guess oversaturation is somewhat responsible for the low prices but, at the same time as you said, its reputation is not so good now because of the many bad "VG-10" knives. Having had one of those Chinese knives myself to see what it was like, there is a huge difference between one of those and...say, a Yoshihiro.
The Chinese santoku was incredibly thick, like stupidly beefy, and weighed almost 2x as much as my Yoshihiro nakiri due to the heavy G10 handle (advertised as "light"). There was nearly no distal taper to speak of, the knife face down to the blade road had a very subtle and gentle slope but it was almost like the maker ran out of blade road before getting to the edge, so there was a very sudden shoulder that established the edge bevel. The spine was almost 4mm thick, so you can imagine it wedged like hell. There was also barely enough knuckle clearance, you needed to pinch or else your knuckles would cause you to start getting accordion cuts in your green onions when cutting with the heel. The steel was actually not too bad because it was not hard to sharpen and it could hold an edge, but it would require so much work to turn it into a decent performer that it would not be worth the price. It was like a cleaver that got mushed into a "santoku" shape and the whole thing felt odd, almost hardened plasticine, despite it feeling sturdy. Just a big ol' metal hunk with a much bigger focus on polish and F&F without any thought put into usability and cutting ability. It just looks all shiny but if any amateur started using this knife and then picked up a Konosuke or something, no sane person would choose this knife.
My Yoshihiro nakiri was my first VG-10 knife and one of the ones I still reach for first despite it being almost like a beater knife to me. Ol' reliable. The heat treat is excellent. Personally, I have seen chipping issues with many Shuns, which is why I didn't get one. Quite thin behind the edge but no chipping issues whatsoever even though I do things I shouldn't, like mash garlic and ginger with the flat (possibly bending the edge whenever I do so), sharpens easily despite the fact that it doesn't readily take a noticeable conventional burr. Since Shun and Yoshihiro are hardened to apparently similar levels, I am not sure what causes the chippiness issues I saw in earlier Shuns. In any case, I would choose my beater nakiri over a Shun due to the dramatically lighter weight. Simple triple-riveted wooden scale handle is preferable to me over the heavy synthetic material in the Shun handle. I do find it a little sad that VG-10 has such a bad reputation among many circles because of poor examples produced by some careless makers. When well-treated, VG-10 makes an incredible knife material, especially for the typically low cost. TojiroDP knives are a good example.
I have a bad VG-10 knife myself, a Japanese-made Ikeuti En single-beveled funayuki/petty. The edge is incredibly frail and the blade is even a little curved. I got it for $15 on clearance on the Japan woodworker site so I didn't expect anything breathtaking but the thing is nearly unusable, worse than any Chinese knife. It comes with a bright orange grippy cover over the wa handle. It chips like a stale saltine on anything no matter how gently I sharpen, even on a hinoki board and even if I put a microbevel on it, and has stayed this way through about 10 sharpenings. It chips soon after sharpening to matter what I cut--bananas, salami, green onions, peppers, you name it. It will probably chip if you look at it wrong. It also steers in a slightly different way than a properly made straight single-bevel. So it is useless except for cutting small, soft ingredients. I use this one for sharpening practice and have been trying to gradually work on it to make it usable. I really don't know how it made it past QC unless some first-year apprentice was responsible for this monstrosity.
The shun 10 inch knife he uses is this real damascus ?
Thanks. Nice video. I like your idea of **selling those knives to places that can make good of the them like soup kitchens. 👍👍👏👏
Nice video? How to become your supporter? I really would like to have a Shun Chef knife!
Great explanation, I also have come across a couple chinese so-called VG-10 knives, one tell-tale difference is the steel can become stained or tarnished quicker, had one that exhibited a very slight pink/purple color after hand washing.
I think it's not a reliable indicator because "fake VG-10" can be a wide variety of different steels. IMO a more reliable indicator is how the knife behaves over the stones, how well-designed it is for cutting, and how balanced it is. I have used and handled some Chinese "fake" knives that do have rather decent steel. They were just still awful knives because of many clear poor choices in design. Their selling point was their appearance, mirror polish, fancy packaging, and unique looks. Meanwhile, many of even the best Japanese knives arrive in a simple oblong cardboard box adorned with a few kanji and secured with rubber bands and newspaper. Sometimes just a plain black cardboard box you would think nothing about if you saw it in a bin somewhere.
If it looks all pretty-super-sparkly but it's stupid thick behind the edge, has no knuckle clearance, feels uncomfortable to use....probably Chinese. Often, you can tell after just a small prep session. The difference from a good Japanese knife is like night and day. A good knife maker prioritizes cutting ability and user comfort because the knife is a tool, and at relatively low price ranges, like below $100, there is little to work with in terms of sheer polish and amazing aesthetics if the knife is still supposed to be a good knife. If it's too good to be true, it probably is. Super well-designed knife with excellent heat treatment, 70 HRC, house-made damascus cladding, and a thoughtful edge geometry is not likely for a $50 knife with a brand you've never heard of.
Sadly, when people who don't cook much or don't know much about knives buys a Chinese fake, they don't know any better than to think it's a good knife since it's still probably better than their old $20 Walmart knives. They see it on Facebook or Amazon and go "ooo shiny and it's only $50" and they get it and praise it.
Great video! Thank you for the information.
This conclusion surprises me since VG-Max and VG-10 have quite different compositions. From zknives: "VG-MAX takes Takefu VG-10 steel as its base and increases several alloying element percentages, which should result in increased performance. Most notably, W and V are both at 3%, and Cobalt is increased to 2.5%. There's also slight increase in Cr and Mo content, but not as prominent as the former three."
Perhaps these changes make little difference in practice, but that seems unlikely.
Where does aus10 used by dalstrong fit?
John Wilkinson: I'm guessing they were one of the Chinese companies that stopped receiving VG-10. I have a Shogun X 8" chef's knife in AUS-10V. The steel seems fine, but I don't care for the profile so it's in the box until I find someone who wants it.
@@b-radg916 I've got the santoku, think I'll get the nakiri next I've always liked the push cut knives better...
John Wilkinson: It turns out that the combination of the high tip/wide blade/constant radius of their chef's knife makes it feel shorter than it is, and like I'm working "downhill". I really wanted to love this *_gorgeous_* knife, but because I know I don't like using it, i have enough knives that I do like so I don't have to force myself. I guess that's a great reason to try before you buy if possible.
I think Shun’s VG-MAX is Takefu VG-10w slightly increase of carbon and chromium with little tungsten.
FC61 is probably AEB-L/13c26 from sweden or something very close to it
and to your point, no one (or only a very minuscule portion) in the market for a Masakage, Tanaka, Takamura etc VG10 lines is really going to be considering anything from China. This is def a problem for the big name brands like Shun though.
Then again those in the market for hand forged knives probably aren't looking at VG10 anyway...
So that's why I've been seeing AUS10V! Concerning VG-MAX I thought higher Co was one of the differences, along with higher hardness now, pretty darn close to that new Cos steel to if ya ask me... 🤔
Hi! Do you or anyone else have any experience with ZDP - 189? It should have a really good HRC but for me it doesn't seem to retain the sharpnes as long as one would expect.
So that's why knivesandtools changed their Eden knife series to aus10 all of a sudden. Now I'm not sure if what I got is actual vg10,they feel so different compared to my tojiro dp3. Good thing I'm going for a white nr2 from sakai takayuki or sakai kikumori (still need to hold both side by side to make the final choice)
The reason Takefu sells VG10 steel outside Japan is simple: They do not want to controll by 1~2 big customers like Shun. This is totally business consideration. And why I know this? because I am working in kitchen knife industry.
Coming from the pocketknife world of folders and fixed blades, I wonder why there’s so much buzz around VG10 when many of the high end pocketknives have sailed far beyond vg10 (which is now considered an “old super steel”) are using s45vn, s90v, or some high end carbon steels like cpm3v, etc, which seem to have better edge retention and toughness properties than vg10. Can anyone explain? Sorry for my naïveté.
Great Video.
You are really knowledgeable.
Thanks for uploading
What happened for your PROMOTION of Dalstrong or Enso? Just be honest as usual....
Are Enso made in China?
I bought a few cause of his review. I'm not that happy with them. One of them came very dull. They sent me a replacement. I was wanting a show piece knife for serving. I got the Shogun series and the Damascus looked more like an etching. The Gladiator knife had a better gripping handle and seemed sharper out of the box. Both knife lines were over priced for what you get. I'll stick with my Zwilling and Wustof. I may try Shun or Myabi next time for a showpiece knife for serving.
Kamal Mattar Should be made in Japan... probably Yaxell
@@terryanderson9037 look up Sakai Takayuki knives I have one of their VG10 Damascus clad knives it is a great knife easy to get a razor edge and holds the edge well
I bought mine off Ebay shipped from Japan at a very good price will definitely buy another one.
@@robertwalker1333 Sakai Takayuki make some decent knives but the out of the box sharpness is not as high as other brands. (That does not bother me.) In terms of out of the box sharpness Masakage has blown me away. They are all sharpened by Takayuki Shibata who is regarded as one of the very best sharpeners in all of Japan.
This is a really good piece about how he assesses a knife's sharpness. It is a technique I have adopted myself.
knifewear.com/blogs/news/canadas-next-top-knife-sharpener
Where does BD1N belong in your opinion? Comparo to Vg10 and SG2 specifically. Thanks
Baboy Lechon : I would go for BD1N over Vg10 personally. SG2 is harder stainless steel than Vg10 and is more expensive.
I'm a fan of BD1N. I can't tell the difference between sharpening it and VG-10, even though it's a couple Rockwells harder. I'm not the best to advise on edge retention, as I strop my knives every few uses. I don't have any experience with SG2, but if I upgrade my VG-10 I'd love to try SG2. Have heard great things about it.
Hi experts , I got a Takahara (a rebrand from another brand) it says kumadori on the outside and inside it says blue #2 210mm gyuto but i don’t see it says make in Japan. Anyone knows? Thanks
Any input guys?
Do you own any Tramontina knife???????
whats a good knife set that won't break the bank 4 to 5 pc up to $400-500
I believe selling products in the US without a country of origin is illegal. So right off the bat, you should return any knife without a country of origin.
Looks like you havent bought a pair of oakleys recently. The rules dont apply if the materials are from a different country then the manufacturer. Similar to the made in the usa with global materials stamps and stickers on tools.
@@kiellegg8218 Actually, Ryarios is Correct. ALL products that are IMPORTED have to have a country of Origin on them
AS of now, 70% of Oakleys are still made in the USA, and THOSE are NOT imported and do not need a Country of Origin on the Box. THose Tools that say made in USA of foreign Materials are also not Imported. THe materials that they were made of that were imported had to have a country of origin on their "BOX". The finished tool is not being Imported as the end product. In fact, in many cases, the country of origin is required to be ON THE Imported ITEM.
The Chinese might start using the VG-Max name the way they did with VG-10. They might even start putting "Made in Japan" on some of their knives and boxes, if they aren't doing it already.
And.... Mr. GLOBAL cached it: He made Japanese-style knifes for western use and with much softer steel than a real JP knife. And so did MAC.....
can you do a video on sharpening a pocket knife?
Any sharpening video !
I agree that VG10 and VG Max "feel" the same.
VG MAX is primarily just a marketing term that Shun uses to make themselves "special". Shun unfairly got a bad name because people who didn't have skill and didn't know how to use a knife properly, chipped them. 99.99% were the customers fault, not a defect of materials and manufacture. it was shun marketed to the wrong people. So Shun had to change their image a bit.
I HIGHLY agree with ryky about the issue of people using the name VG10, about the fraudulent use of the trademark.
You will also see some knives from a certain country with American marketing companies claiming that a similar formula is "Japanese" steel just line many manufacturers are claiming the same formula of steel as DIN 1.4116 is "German steel" or even "Krups Thyssen 4116" even thou it was NOT made by Krups and not made in Germany. (no coincidentally it's the same country)
I agree with ryky. It is NOT that Chinese can't make good knives. they can IF they CHOOSE to or IF a contractor forces them to follow proper processes. Spyderco makes GREAT stuff from China. The trouble is that MOST knives coming from China do NOT care about quality, they care about numbers and how it looks because they are catering to a gullible buyer who doensn't know any better and couldn't tell the difference if they had it in their hands
BUY WISELY
DO NOT FALL FOR A FALSE SENSE OF "ECONOMY"
THERE IS A BIG DIFFERNE BETWEEN BEING FRUGAL AND BEING CHEAP
I have a Sakai Takayuki VG 10 160mm I use it for the majority of my cooking I am not gentle with it I have only had to fix a couple of minor nicks in the 2 years I have owned it, There are a couple of Chinese made knives that I like the style of but the worry about the quality puts me off, It is a shame that the Chinese can not be trusted
because they do make some very fine products but most people will not buy them because of the outright scumbags running the businesses and country,
Does anyone know any Chinese Knife companies that can be trusted.
@@robertwalker1333 LOVE!
Can you review Kiwi brand knives?
Were you unaware of spyderco using Vg10 steel for many many years?
i have a WMF Yari that i bought in germany, dont know a lot about it but i do like it
I see you have started to make your own iron throne chef knife edition. Looks good!
This is 👌, I want to hear about personal experiences
I’m curious of “powder steel” or “high speed” steel like R2 or Hitachi. Thanks for the video 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼.
powdered steel metalurgy is one way to make a high speed steel. It is a METHOD of manufacture.
High speed steels are "CLASS" of steels, no matter what their manufacturing METHOD, that have high hardness, do not lose their temper with normal heat ranges, and have decent toughness. Even drill bits, electrical wire and saw blades can be powdered metal or can be high speed steel. That doesn't mean they make a good knife. Not all high speed steels or powdered steels are good for knives AND not all are good for culinary knives as opposed to outdoor knives. A steel that makes a GREAT outdoor knife might make a poor culinary knife.
Again most knife buyers don't understand that harder is not always better, there are MANY other factors
HR Hamada Knives kinda suffer from the same disease fountain pens and other luxury goods have: there's a lot of expensive crap out there, an enormous amount to choose from, and no obvious "here's the one everyone who knows anything would be happy to recommend as a high end but attainable and not ostentatious product." I'm curious if these high maintenence steels with edge retention are even the best choice for the home chef, who chops probably max 15 minutes a day. Maybe stainless steel is just better for a normal person who doesn't want to worry about not drying off a knife quick enough. But then every hobbiest wants to play with what the professionals use.
@@CaptainWumbo Professional probably still use German Knives at least as often as any other. THEY are not as hard - but in return they Can get very sharp, are easier to sharpen, and work well with a good Honing Rod. However, My R2SG2 knives are far harder to sharpen than Vg10 knives, and they tend to lose that last 5% of their sharpness fairly quickly before they settle down for a while. And because most powder steel is expensive to begin with, manufacturers tend to use it in really top end Hand Made product that make them VERY expensive and IF all you are going to do is chop a few minutes a day, it is overkill. To me, with maybe the exception of the Tojiro R2 line, these things are TROPHY Knives that end up displayed but NEVER used. I do not know of one Professional who regularly uses only these very expensive knives for work. I bought mine years ago when they were still "affordable". BUT My workhorse Knives are still Tojiro DP knives. (But I am over 6'8" and a BIG person as well.) The DP still retain their edge better than other similar knives, are easy to sharpen, and I have yet to get one to rust.
@@hrhamada1982 powdered steel metalurgy is one way to make a high speed steel.
Not true. Both M2 & M4 are made via ingot.
@@svn5994 I've tried to post like four times with an answer but youtube keeps clearing the typing so I'll make this short.
You and I basically agree that M2 and M4 are ingot steel. I NEVER said they were PM steel. I said HIGH SPEED STEEL is also different than PM steel and that SG2/R2 are PM. I re-read my post several times and no where did I ever make the claim that M2 and M4 are PM. (and we agree on that, it's just that you put words in my mouth that I never said.)
Would love to see a knife/cutting comparison between Chinese cleaver and a Usuba or Nakiri
Some china knivemakers make really good job. Vg-10 from grandsharp or amber very similar to japan knives and cost around 50 bucks. I think if you can see some reviews and save money its good.
Sorry for my bad english
Does anyone have any experience with the Chinese knife manufacturer Shan Zu?
I would have bought Shun but, their handles are ugly imo. I went with Yaxell instead. Still not as flashy of a handle as I wanted but, the quality and materials were more important. Both had what I wanted (at my price point) but the Yaxell looks better in the end. Plus the Yaxell Mon block set is way too affordable to pass up.
So what is the best overall steel for knives?
Really depends on what you like in a steel. Best carbon steel overall is probably aogami super (blue Super) because of edge retention (which white steels dont have as much of) and because it's easy to sharpen and gets very sharp. White 2 is often said to be the easiest to sharpen as and white 1 is supposed to get the sharpest due to its high purity.
Best stainless is probably ZDP 189 in terms of sharpness and edge retention but it is also a pain in the ass to sharpen from what ive heard. R2/SG2 would take my vote for best stainless because it has crazy edge reyention and is very easy to sharpen. It's also used by many skilled makers(Takeshi saji for example).
Custom makers tend to use 52100 a lot too which says a lot about its quality although idk much about it.
FC61 is Henckle rebrand of Sandvik 13C26 which is very similar to AEBL
Hello, thank you for your videos and Illuminating facts. I would like to ask you a few questions and make you a few suggestions.
questions:
1. How to sharp a boning knife?
2. I have a crack in the edge of a cleaver (got banged by a rock), how can I sharpen it to get a clean edge back?
3. I understand that you appreciate Murry Carter but I saw a big difference between the two of you, he claims that one can sharpen a knife within one or two minutes at the most, but your sharpening sessions takes 20 or 30 minutes? Why is that?
suggestions:
1. Keep your videos not more than 10 minutes long. I think that with proper editing you will be able to summarize and make them more watchable and less time-consuming.
2. You recommend products from Amazon, I think the eBay platform has much more collection to offer, and since I do not live in the USA I prefer to purchase on eBay. Perhaps I can suggest that you start exploring the eBay platform?
Thanks.
Unless YOU have a dedicated set up of Whetstones to sharpen your knives, I just do not see how you can properly and completely sharpen a high end knife in a couple of minutes. Especially Powder Steel Knives that simply will not sharpen that quickly period. I use at least 3 different stones and it takes longer than 2 minutes to change the stones for me. Of course I am 83 too but that does not make that much of a difference.