Both sides are extremists, just as the Sith give themselves completely to the darkside, the Jedi go completely to the lightside. That why characters constantly turn.
I like the freedom of the Sith, but depending solely on the Dark Side is a sweet poison. Look at Yuthuura; she wanted to free the slaves, but she never did. Anakin wanted to save his wife, but he ended up killing her personally. I prefer to be someone like Revan: depending on the Dark Side for power, but relying on the Light for morality
The Sith may claim freedom, but even though I think they're being controlled by the light, I think the Jedi are right when they say that the dark side controls the Sith. If a random person in society is told that they are exempt from any prosecution or persecution, no matter what they do, will the average person automatically and immediately turn to murder or other crimes? The cynic in me is screaming "yes". But I'm not so sure. Meanwhile the Sith and other dark side users are almost always turning to these practices and have teachings built around justifying it.
Yuki _ he caused her downfall. She lost her will to live after giving birth and sidious took her life force to make sure vader survived in his new suit
really love her ideas, i can relate to being powerless to those who bully you. seeking power is a good thing, while keeping your morals and values to remind yourself of your goal. once you are free, the pursuit of power is no more
Her ideas of foolish, when you seek power for the sake of power not to feel weak, you inevitably lose your way. Such pursuits are opposed to aspects of morality because morality required restraint, pursuing power literally requires doing whatever it takes to achieve it in some way or another. Her ideas only appear seductive to the sociopaths and broken victims aka bullies in the making.
Yes, to know victory over your enemies. Most sith see other sith as obstacles between them and advancement. But a strong common enemy gives them something else to focus their hatred on. Without a strong enemy? They turn on each other. The sith must continuously test themselves, even if it means destroying each other.
Do you think so? On one hand, they can't really help it. The dark side compels them to crave power. On the other hand, the republic was crushed by the hands of only 2 sith and it took their destruction to do it. Darth Bane, the sith'ari, was prophesied to make the sith stronger than they ever were, but also to destroy them. With the rule of 2 established, it eventually led to a one Darth Sidious who along with his apprentice, Darth Vader, destroyed the republic.
Papito Qinn Darth Bane essentially managed to stop backstabbing on the scale of civil wars. Until then, thousands of years of a few setbacks making the Sith turn on each other, hundreds of Sith dead, they have always limited their numbers for no reason other for power. Which then in turn allows the Republic so say "thank you very much" and sweep the Sith up.
A sith might justify it as their empire cleansing itself of weakness. The republic went on oblivious to the sith empire's existence for some time though. I suspect there might have been plenty of these 'cleansings' in that time. Death is just part of everyday sith life. They don't see it as counterproductive.
Neither the Jedi or Sith codes can ultimately gift what they respectively offer. The Sith proclaim freedom while enslaving themselves to their baser passions. The Jedi offer peace while forcing themselves to submit to blind stagnation. As with most ideologies, the truth lays somewhere between the extremes.
There is no such thing as being enslaved to your passions; that's called simply doing what you want. Only a weakling would try & play word-games to frame that as slavery, in an attempt to demonize that which he is incapable of.
@@KevinJohnson-cv2no I disagree. I think most would agree that they often do things that they don’t actually want to do but are compelled to do for some primal reason that they can’t quite defeat. Like the drug addict who wants to be clean but still shoots up. The fat guy who wants to be thin but keeps eating himself to an early grave. The girl who wants love but cannot bring herself to commit because of abuse in her early age. Habit, addiction, trauma, etc; there are many things that can compel us to do what we don’t want.
This seems to be a popular thing petty moralists are saying, thinking themselves witty. "You're a slave to power!" A lie the weakling tells himself so that he may demonize that which he is incapable of wielding. How is it possible for one to be enslaved by that which bestows freedom itself. How can one be chained by the very thing that shatters all chains. "A slave to power!" has the same ring to it as modern poor people saying a billionaire is "poor in spirit". An attempt by the weak to cast their own weakness unto the empowered, by shifting definitions and juggling words.
@@KevinJohnson-cv2no they LITERALLY explain it in game, her entire motivation was to go back to her original planet and free all the slaves there. She tried going through the Jedi to nurture her gifts but found them strict and unforgiving, she then tried going through the Sith and found both kin and peace of mind to help her achieve her end. She then never left despite admitting that she was powerful enough to achieve her goal, in the end she just wanted more power. In the pursuit of freedom through power, she found she couldn’t get enough of it. Thus being enslaved by the very thing that “freed” her. Even Kreia in the next game brings up this part of Dark Side philosophy. Power for the sake of power is like a drug…you cannot get enough and you ever fall down the downward spiral.
@@kanewilson8624 I never played the game lol, I was just arguing defending the ideology of power as an end in and of itself; I agree with the Sith much more fundamentally than just fiction. The problem with moralists is that you think just because someone isn't satisfied (IE. never enough power, wealth; can always have more) that they aren't fulfilled or something. One can spend their entire life constantly shattering obstacles and reaching new heights, and indeed, *THAT IN AND OF ITSELF* will give them "meaning, purpose, etc." all those cliche things. Who would dare look at Alexander The Great and say he lived an "unfulfilling" life? Utter absurdity.
@@KevinJohnson-cv2no except Alexandria the Great made something of himself using the power that he had, and thus ended up gaining more power because of that action of fulfilment. The Old Republic (and even the modern Sith) Sith follow the same motif of: Training, target, backstab and repeat. Nearly all Sith that follow this pattern have stated on their deathbeds that: “It was never enough” and often follow the trend of trying to achieve immortality in order to try to fill the void. The ONLY times that the Sith have acted with the motivation of a pitbull seeing a 4 year old alone for the first time is when Sith are presented with the obstacle of the Jedi. The Only Sith to have broken the prestablished mold was Revan, who used what power he had in order to gain the resources necessary to save the Galaxy. ONLY using the dark side as a tool as a last option.
I admire the Sith but the elitist form in their teachings always bothered me, it has led the Sith down to near destruction time and time again until the Rule of Two was enforced. A United Sith Empire would be the Jedi's greatest nightmare. If the Sith were learn to trust each other and unite in expanding their power they would have conquered the galaxy thousands of years before Sidious and Vader showed up. The whole "the strongest must rule if we are to survive" is completely primitive honestly and is basically the doctrine the fascists of Nazi Germany adopted when Hitler came into power. The Sith have style in both weaponary and outfits and their dark powers are surperior to the jedi every way but its not enough, learning one side of the force is never enough. Revan is a prime example on why the Jedi and Sith have to stop being so one sided. Both sides of the force have their strengths and weakness but it provides balance and balance dominates both the light and dark.
I would say this is the only time the TOR MMO did well - with the option of being a Light Side Sith Warrior or Sith Inquisitor. A Sith that doesn't seek power for power's sake, but instead seeks out their own goals and ambitions through unity and strength of the self.
Lol you have no idea what you're talking about. Firstly, The Nazi's didn't operate according to a Kraterocracy (IE. Might Makes Right government).They were just any other fascist dictatorship. Secondly, the Sith have only survived for so long due to Might Makes Right & the strongest ruling; their problem is in how they cultivate this might. The original Sith Brotherhood had a multitude of weaklings and inferiorities filling its' ranks; these were relatively incapable, unintelligent belligerents walking around with phony "Darth" titles, little more than LARP'ers. Bane's reformation of the Sith was a step in the right direction, due to reforming the standards for what power was needed to be a Darth/Dark Lord, but he poisoned their ideology by convincing the Sith that the force was a limited energy source & that only two Dark Lords should be drawing from its power at any time, else they'd suck it dry. In reality, the force is limitless; and you can cultivate strong force users as often as they are born. The ideal Sith would be a brotherhood led by a true Dark Lord, composed of high-quality Sith to make up the ranks. We see a glimpse of this in Darth Krayt's "One Sith" and it literally conquers the galaxy almost effortlessly; even though they aren't "united" per-se and the ranks are still rife with infighting.
All I want is freedom, for my chains to be broken. I seek no subjugation of the force or of others just for the sake of it nor do I seek to destroy. All I seek is freedom and life and the means to take it and protect it. That is why I think one of the best Sith was the baneite who did no evil but simply lived.
@@JDog2656 I can walk as a human. Morality may hone me but it will not chain me. I will do as I will and not use the dark as a crutch only for it to enslave me.
@@Ghidorah96 That actually sounds un-Niezsche-like, as Niezsche was critical of so-called "master morality", pretty much for the reasons you stated. Power is only useful if it has a purpose and isn't empty; he thought that the will to power was natural to human beings, but only good if its purpose was to be used to create greater meaning, and it is not being sought for its own sake or for reasons that do not align with ones true self: Fear of losing power can become a trap that prevents one from reaching ones highest potential.
Actually according to the writers more inspiration for the Sith Code was derived from Hitler's 'Mein Kampf', whereas Niezsche's perspective was much more balanced and was about individuals finding a personal synthesis between "slave morality" and "master morality". (The Sith Code only cares about master morality.) Edit: To be fair, the complete story is that Hitler believed that serving "his race" above all was a form of slave morality he was incorporating into his personal beliefs, but (A) he could not stand not being in complete control of everyone and (B) he was utterly obsessed with the idea of superiors and inferiors due to his racism as I just mentioned, both of which caused him to develop into a cruel and evil human being who justified his actions using master morality as a partial excuse. Even so, most Sith take this one step further by focusing upon master morality exclusively by prioritizing selfish behavior in the extreme whilst demonizing any hint of slave morality ("peace is a lie"). Ethical egoists would not condone the excesses of the Sith.
@@margaritamarin7526 You are a slave, doing what slaves do; playing with words, juggling definitions and shifting frames. Nietzsche advocated for Master Morality very much. Though he recognized it had flaws, he saw it as exalting itself over slave morality in every way; because at least The Master is individually free & empowered. "Power is only useful if it has a purpose and isn't empty" Weird, considering Nietzsche's quote that power in & of itself is goodness: "What is good? - All that heightens the feelings of power, the will to power, power itself in man. What is bad? - All that proceeds from weakness. What is happiness? - The feeling that power increases - that a resistance is overcome." Here we see Nietzsche almost word for word giving the Sith ideology his personal affirmation. Power in and of itself is good, and to desire it is noble; one need not any "justification" or "higher calling". Indeed, what could be a higher calling than greatness? The idea that power is somehow an "empty" goal is a lie the weaklings of the world came up with to help themselves sleep at night; knowing full well they are completely incapable of acquiring power, so they must seek to villainize it. It has the same ring to it as poor people screaming "Money can't buy happiness!".
@@coreythomas3633 We are more than animals, rutting and killing on instinct. We have the ability to think, to reflect. We have the ability to choose to be different. That gives us the inherent responsibility to be better.
The sith religion is extremely similar to the mandalorian religion and the culture of Zygerrian slave traders no wonder these people allied with the sith against the Jedi their natural enemy
something interesting she mentions in the academy is the sithathsu or the sith version of the chosen one, always was interested in this prophecy that existed in both religions
I never understood why we have to choose either Sith or Jedi and why is it supposed to be impossible to use both powers? Fucking Stupid nonsense if you ask me.
That voice acting! Her highs, lows emphasis, pacing, and tones!
Fun fact: she was also Komari Vosa in Star Wars: Bounty Hunter
Is it just me, but both orders have giant supperiority comlexes?
You're not wrong.
It’s not you
Your not wrong but then again most people would develop a superiority complex if you weild something as powerful as the Force.
There are about a dozen other force Sects we here nothing about. Know why? Cause they mind their own business.
Both sides are extremists, just as the Sith give themselves completely to the darkside, the Jedi go completely to the lightside. That why characters constantly turn.
I like the freedom of the Sith, but depending solely on the Dark Side is a sweet poison. Look at Yuthuura; she wanted to free the slaves, but she never did. Anakin wanted to save his wife, but he ended up killing her personally.
I prefer to be someone like Revan: depending on the Dark Side for power, but relying on the Light for morality
The Sith may claim freedom, but even though I think they're being controlled by the light, I think the Jedi are right when they say that the dark side controls the Sith. If a random person in society is told that they are exempt from any prosecution or persecution, no matter what they do, will the average person automatically and immediately turn to murder or other crimes? The cynic in me is screaming "yes". But I'm not so sure. Meanwhile the Sith and other dark side users are almost always turning to these practices and have teachings built around justifying it.
Anakin didnt kill padme
she kinda cliche chose to die but he was the cause ultimately
Yuki _ he caused her downfall. She lost her will to live after giving birth and sidious took her life force to make sure vader survived in his new suit
Phantom Penance Agreed. Its the most sensible way to live.
"Sometimes anger and hate are good things. Sometimes things change because of it"
Yes and they often change for the worst.
Jolee always there with a birlliant line
really love her ideas, i can relate to being powerless to those who bully you. seeking power is a good thing, while keeping your morals and values to remind yourself of your goal. once you are free, the pursuit of power is no more
Her ideas of foolish, when you seek power for the sake of power not to feel weak, you inevitably lose your way. Such pursuits are opposed to aspects of morality because morality required restraint, pursuing power literally requires doing whatever it takes to achieve it in some way or another. Her ideas only appear seductive to the sociopaths and broken victims aka bullies in the making.
"To know victory" until you decide to blow each other up.
Yes, to know victory over your enemies. Most sith see other sith as obstacles between them and advancement. But a strong common enemy gives them something else to focus their hatred on. Without a strong enemy? They turn on each other. The sith must continuously test themselves, even if it means destroying each other.
Papito Qinn the donkey which made that idea should be shot. He/she basically caused the Sith's inability to smash fully the Republic
Do you think so? On one hand, they can't really help it. The dark side compels them to crave power. On the other hand, the republic was crushed by the hands of only 2 sith and it took their destruction to do it. Darth Bane, the sith'ari, was prophesied to make the sith stronger than they ever were, but also to destroy them. With the rule of 2 established, it eventually led to a one Darth Sidious who along with his apprentice, Darth Vader, destroyed the republic.
Papito Qinn Darth Bane essentially managed to stop backstabbing on the scale of civil wars. Until then, thousands of years of a few setbacks making the Sith turn on each other, hundreds of Sith dead, they have always limited their numbers for no reason other for power. Which then in turn allows the Republic so say "thank you very much" and sweep the Sith up.
A sith might justify it as their empire cleansing itself of weakness. The republic went on oblivious to the sith empire's existence for some time though. I suspect there might have been plenty of these 'cleansings' in that time. Death is just part of everyday sith life. They don't see it as counterproductive.
Neither the Jedi or Sith codes can ultimately gift what they respectively offer. The Sith proclaim freedom while enslaving themselves to their baser passions. The Jedi offer peace while forcing themselves to submit to blind stagnation.
As with most ideologies, the truth lays somewhere between the extremes.
Moderation in the Force is impossible.
There is no such thing as being enslaved to your passions; that's called simply doing what you want. Only a weakling would try & play word-games to frame that as slavery, in an attempt to demonize that which he is incapable of.
@@KevinJohnson-cv2no I disagree. I think most would agree that they often do things that they don’t actually want to do but are compelled to do for some primal reason that they can’t quite defeat. Like the drug addict who wants to be clean but still shoots up. The fat guy who wants to be thin but keeps eating himself to an early grave. The girl who wants love but cannot bring herself to commit because of abuse in her early age.
Habit, addiction, trauma, etc; there are many things that can compel us to do what we don’t want.
Preach that truth Yuthura....Preach!
SITH!!!! *calls Jedi popos*
She is so truthful that she never once accomplished any of the good things she set out to do.
They use the dark side to free themselves of their chains, yet they end up being enslaved by the very thing that freed them
This seems to be a popular thing petty moralists are saying, thinking themselves witty. "You're a slave to power!" A lie the weakling tells himself so that he may demonize that which he is incapable of wielding. How is it possible for one to be enslaved by that which bestows freedom itself. How can one be chained by the very thing that shatters all chains.
"A slave to power!" has the same ring to it as modern poor people saying a billionaire is "poor in spirit". An attempt by the weak to cast their own weakness unto the empowered, by shifting definitions and juggling words.
@@KevinJohnson-cv2no they LITERALLY explain it in game, her entire motivation was to go back to her original planet and free all the slaves there. She tried going through the Jedi to nurture her gifts but found them strict and unforgiving, she then tried going through the Sith and found both kin and peace of mind to help her achieve her end. She then never left despite admitting that she was powerful enough to achieve her goal, in the end she just wanted more power.
In the pursuit of freedom through power, she found she couldn’t get enough of it. Thus being enslaved by the very thing that “freed” her.
Even Kreia in the next game brings up this part of Dark Side philosophy. Power for the sake of power is like a drug…you cannot get enough and you ever fall down the downward spiral.
@@kanewilson8624 I never played the game lol, I was just arguing defending the ideology of power as an end in and of itself; I agree with the Sith much more fundamentally than just fiction. The problem with moralists is that you think just because someone isn't satisfied (IE. never enough power, wealth; can always have more) that they aren't fulfilled or something. One can spend their entire life constantly shattering obstacles and reaching new heights, and indeed, *THAT IN AND OF ITSELF* will give them "meaning, purpose, etc." all those cliche things. Who would dare look at Alexander The Great and say he lived an "unfulfilling" life?
Utter absurdity.
@@KevinJohnson-cv2no except Alexandria the Great made something of himself using the power that he had, and thus ended up gaining more power because of that action of fulfilment. The Old Republic (and even the modern Sith) Sith follow the same motif of: Training, target, backstab and repeat. Nearly all Sith that follow this pattern have stated on their deathbeds that: “It was never enough” and often follow the trend of trying to achieve immortality in order to try to fill the void. The ONLY times that the Sith have acted with the motivation of a pitbull seeing a 4 year old alone for the first time is when Sith are presented with the obstacle of the Jedi. The Only Sith to have broken the prestablished mold was Revan, who used what power he had in order to gain the resources necessary to save the Galaxy. ONLY using the dark side as a tool as a last option.
@@KevinJohnson-cv2nogo take your Jordan Peterson alt-right bullshit someplace else.
To truly understand you will need the contrast
You need the contrast to understand both, but there is no need to accept both.
action and the WILL TO ACT,followed by the results are THE ONLY PROOF requried
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Thanks, man. We're gonna have lots of fun together.
I feel like yuthora would have been a fantastic companion the banter between her bastilla would have been priceless
I agree. Especially if they didn't cut Sleheyron from the game too.
I admire the Sith but the elitist form in their teachings always bothered me, it has led the Sith down to near destruction time and time again until the Rule of Two was enforced. A United Sith Empire would be the Jedi's greatest nightmare. If the Sith were learn to trust each other and unite in expanding their power they would have conquered the galaxy thousands of years before Sidious and Vader showed up. The whole "the strongest must rule if we are to survive" is completely primitive honestly and is basically the doctrine the fascists of Nazi Germany adopted when Hitler came into power. The Sith have style in both weaponary and outfits and their dark powers are surperior to the jedi every way but its not enough, learning one side of the force is never enough.
Revan is a prime example on why the Jedi and Sith have to stop being so one sided. Both sides of the force have their strengths and weakness but it provides balance and balance dominates both the light and dark.
I would say this is the only time the TOR MMO did well - with the option of being a Light Side Sith Warrior or Sith Inquisitor. A Sith that doesn't seek power for power's sake, but instead seeks out their own goals and ambitions through unity and strength of the self.
Lol you have no idea what you're talking about. Firstly, The Nazi's didn't operate according to a Kraterocracy (IE. Might Makes Right government).They were just any other fascist dictatorship. Secondly, the Sith have only survived for so long due to Might Makes Right & the strongest ruling; their problem is in how they cultivate this might. The original Sith Brotherhood had a multitude of weaklings and inferiorities filling its' ranks; these were relatively incapable, unintelligent belligerents walking around with phony "Darth" titles, little more than LARP'ers.
Bane's reformation of the Sith was a step in the right direction, due to reforming the standards for what power was needed to be a Darth/Dark Lord, but he poisoned their ideology by convincing the Sith that the force was a limited energy source & that only two Dark Lords should be drawing from its power at any time, else they'd suck it dry. In reality, the force is limitless; and you can cultivate strong force users as often as they are born.
The ideal Sith would be a brotherhood led by a true Dark Lord, composed of high-quality Sith to make up the ranks. We see a glimpse of this in Darth Krayt's "One Sith" and it literally conquers the galaxy almost effortlessly; even though they aren't "united" per-se and the ranks are still rife with infighting.
All I want is freedom, for my chains to be broken. I seek no subjugation of the force or of others just for the sake of it nor do I seek to destroy. All I seek is freedom and life and the means to take it and protect it. That is why I think one of the best Sith was the baneite who did no evil but simply lived.
But can you walk through life with that kind of freedom and hold onto a sense of morality and honor?
@@JDog2656 I can walk as a human. Morality may hone me but it will not chain me. I will do as I will and not use the dark as a crutch only for it to enslave me.
@@Amadeo790 You’d probably like One Piece
@@JDog2656 realy? Why is that? Lind of lost most interest after the white beard war. Way too long lol
@@Amadeo790 All about freedom and breaking chains
I see some Nietzsche inspiration here on the sith
Indeed, creating an opposing morality to cover up their true emotional motives, in this case, fear of lack of power
@@Ghidorah96 That actually sounds un-Niezsche-like, as Niezsche was critical of so-called "master morality", pretty much for the reasons you stated. Power is only useful if it has a purpose and isn't empty; he thought that the will to power was natural to human beings, but only good if its purpose was to be used to create greater meaning, and it is not being sought for its own sake or for reasons that do not align with ones true self: Fear of losing power can become a trap that prevents one from reaching ones highest potential.
Actually according to the writers more inspiration for the Sith Code was derived from Hitler's 'Mein Kampf', whereas Niezsche's perspective was much more balanced and was about individuals finding a personal synthesis between "slave morality" and "master morality". (The Sith Code only cares about master morality.)
Edit:
To be fair, the complete story is that Hitler believed that serving "his race" above all was a form of slave morality he was incorporating into his personal beliefs, but (A) he could not stand not being in complete control of everyone and (B) he was utterly obsessed with the idea of superiors and inferiors due to his racism as I just mentioned, both of which caused him to develop into a cruel and evil human being who justified his actions using master morality as a partial excuse. Even so, most Sith take this one step further by focusing upon master morality exclusively by prioritizing selfish behavior in the extreme whilst demonizing any hint of slave morality ("peace is a lie"). Ethical egoists would not condone the excesses of the Sith.
its called inherent truth . christian morality erased this reality fro. the average western man
@@margaritamarin7526 You are a slave, doing what slaves do; playing with words, juggling definitions and shifting frames. Nietzsche advocated for Master Morality very much. Though he recognized it had flaws, he saw it as exalting itself over slave morality in every way; because at least The Master is individually free & empowered. "Power is only useful if it has a purpose and isn't empty" Weird, considering Nietzsche's quote that power in & of itself is goodness: "What is good? - All that heightens the feelings of power, the will to power, power itself in man. What is bad? - All that proceeds from weakness. What is happiness? - The feeling that power increases - that a resistance is overcome."
Here we see Nietzsche almost word for word giving the Sith ideology his personal affirmation. Power in and of itself is good, and to desire it is noble; one need not any "justification" or "higher calling". Indeed, what could be a higher calling than greatness?
The idea that power is somehow an "empty" goal is a lie the weaklings of the world came up with to help themselves sleep at night; knowing full well they are completely incapable of acquiring power, so they must seek to villainize it. It has the same ring to it as poor people screaming "Money can't buy happiness!".
There is actually an important lesson here, one that oddly makes the vegan perspective redundant.
She justifys being a sith by useing an excuse serial killers use. The animals kill and they are not evil, excuse
JJ souls that is nature
@@coreythomas3633 The other species of animal kill out of *necessity.*
@@coreythomas3633 We are more than animals, rutting and killing on instinct. We have the ability to think, to reflect. We have the ability to choose to be different. That gives us the inherent responsibility to be better.
@@juliagoetia WHITE COLONIALISM. Did happen so I disagree
@@coreythomas3633 "Bad people did bad things so I have no obligation to be any better than them, I am very smart"
The sith religion is extremely similar to the mandalorian religion and the culture of Zygerrian slave traders no wonder these people allied with the sith against the Jedi their natural enemy
something interesting she mentions in the academy is the sithathsu or the sith version of the chosen one, always was interested in this prophecy that existed in both religions
You mean the Sith'ari.
When does she take a breath 😂 when talking.
I never understood why we have to choose either Sith or Jedi and why is it supposed to be impossible to use both powers? Fucking Stupid nonsense if you ask me.