When he mentioned becoming suicidal because he was told that he should quit drumming and pick a new career path, I hope people will recognize that lds women (especially in the past), were told to give up any career aspirations at all, and be stay at home mothers.
@iamjustsaying i cant find your other comment = so....for the word gay = it is easy = use the dictionary = it means happy. The correct word is Homosexual, not gay
As a woman raised in the LDS church this was a defining moment for me in my leaving the church. I remember sitting in a YW lesson on keeping our homes clean. A lesson on keeping a godly home clean and neat. A comment was made about going to college was ok to spend time while finding your husband but once married everything you do will be wifely and motherly duties. I remember sitting there and listening to these women leaders tell how many credits they were short of finishing their college degree because once married they stopped college.
@@holdonC Yep. And women in my day were looked down upon if they worked outside the home. We all knew what was expected of us, and most dutifully followed the prophet, thinking that it was God's will.
“Your cult has been responsible for most of the darkness in my life” has got to be one of the most powerful statements I’ve heard! Thanks for your story!
Interesting. I have a friend who is a doctor in Europe somewhere and we have talked often. It is interesting. Taxes are so high, and if you want private medicine, it is far more expensive. For this topic, it is a bit of a red herring, but still interesting.
He needs to grow up,and take responsibility for his own choices. For most, drumming is not a profitable career. It is a wonderful hobby, and a few gigs can really help,pad the family budget. I think there is a lack of understanding.
@@chandelcampbell8580 read steven hassans booknon cults and high deman religions. Mormonism hits almost all the boxes of what is considered a cult except for the most physically harmful ones. Just cause the church doesn’t physically torture you in a basement of make you drink you poison doesn’t mean its not a cult. We are indoctrinated from the day we are born into the church or convert. Nobody in a cult EVER believes they are in a cult. I didn’t for 40 years.
I’m not a Mormon. I can’t even remember how I started watching Mormon Stories. As an outsider, I have a couple of observations. First, the Church seems far more sinister and coercive than I had ever imagined. Second, it seems to produce exceptionally open, honest, bright, good people. Why should that be?
My theory is that good people have always been taken advantage of by corrupt people and institutions. The church didn't make them good people, it attracts good people who are too trusting to know that they're dealing with wolves in sheep's clothing.
It really isn't that bad. It isn't like the devil runs the church or anything like that. They are people that are deluding themselves because they don't want to be the one to call out BS.
This story is word for word what happened to a male relative of mine. She wanted to divorce him the moment he came clean about looking at porn. She included her parents and sisters who made the situation 10x worse. They encouraged her to go “no contact” to punish him for looking at it again. Seriously, how do you work through marriage problems when you’re apart and not talking? After two months of no contact she came back wanting a divorce with the support of her family. It broke him to the point of thinking suicide. It was the darkest period of his life. It all ended happy though. He’s remarried to a wonderful girl and has a baby.
Two friends of mine got a divorce but they still live together! I just don't understand it! After reading your comment I am wondering if it is a mormon thing.
Lots of research out there that is not Mormon based, describing the betrayal trauma that is caused by a partner betraying their trust about agreed upon sexual boundaries. She shouldn’t be shamed for choosing what felt safest to her. If he lied from the start of the marriage then he robbed her of the ability to choose for herself the life she wanted. I’m glad she knew what she wanted once he finally came clean. His lies hurt himself by delaying the inevitable. Would have hurt less had he been honest and she left before marriage. Let’s not victim shame. He manipulated her, and once she realized it’s only fair she choose her own path.
@@GL-yg8uc I don’t argue that he didn’t betray her, or that she shouldn’t feel traumatized by the betrayal. What I’m saying is that her reaction was absurd. Ending an otherwise good marriage because he was looking at porn 1x a month? And what was she trying to accomplish by moving out? Do you think that withholding sex was going to make the problem better or worse?
As the sole woman sitting before a body of Elders, the humilliation and NO advocate beside me, asking really stupid questions, such as "What kind of magazines do you read?" I answerrd truthfully, 'Womans Day & Fsmily Circle', (scandolus right?) Abd when they asked nit only a humilliating, very personal question, i answered "thats none of your business" and I never returned. My relationship with my Heavenly Father is also no one elses business.
as an exmo i do have to say that porn broke up my marriage.... post Mormonism. I felt continually betrayed, and it had nothing to do with Mormonism, it had to do with biology and sexual inequality.. What was sexually available to me (flirting elsewhere etc ) I would turn away from, where he wouldn't. turn away from what turned him on outside of our marriage which was porn.. Porn hurting relationships isn't due to what religions say about it.
Porn addiction is different from viewing it once per month for curiosity or self release. I have more issue of what drives people to produce and perform in porn. It is never a cheerful story.
If you told me I would spend most of this day listening to an ex-Mormon’s story, I would say you were nuts. However, your story and how music has really saved your life makes me so proud for you, McKay❤️. ROCK ON🎵
Always Illuminating and thought-provoking. I'm not a Mormon past or present but as an Idaho native and a graduate of Idaho State U. I have been in the midst and have had many dear friends and gone through the "enlightening" sessions. There are so many positives I could say about the people and I love them. I also know the harm that has been done to so many. You help me understand myself and others and I appreciate the work you all do.
Bishop roulette is so frustrating. He mentioned that when he admitted to “durfing”, the bishop maybe at worst asked him to not take sacrament for one Sunday… and just said to stop doing it. I was in a situation where a guy I was dating started to “durf” (I knew it as dry humping back then) when we were making out. I actually didn’t want him to do that, but I didn’t have enough of a backbone at that time to stop it so I tried to figure out a really passive way to get him to stop. But he would continue to do it every now and then when we we’re making out. Looking back, of course I wish I had been more vocal and was clear about what I was and was not comfortable with, but I guess I had to learn the hard way. I decided to bring this up months later to a bishop when I was trying to get “back on the path” by renewing my temple recommend, and I thought for sure he would understand that it wasn’t something I was wanting or participating in, but instead he just went straight into discipline mode and told me I wouldn’t be able to take the sacrament for like 6 weeks or something, and that I would need to come in and talk to him weekly as we worked through the repentance process. After trying multiple times to get the bishop to understand I wasn’t participating and didn’t even want it to be happening, he insisted I still needed to go through what is essentially public shaming for weeks before God would apparently forgive me. I felt so unheard and misunderstood and judged. I never went back to that ward again, and I ended up being inactive for probably a year or two afterwards. Why do men seem to get less church discipline for sexual matters than women? I guess because it’s a man who is always determining the severity of discipline and never a woman? A man can’t understand a woman’s position or relate to it as much as he can a man? I don’t know. It’s really messed up.
The church was built on a foundation where the women were on a lower class than the men, and that means they’re not viewed the same, treated less than, and the man/“priesthood” holder always is taken more seriously/believed over the woman. It’s obviously way better than it was in the 1800’s, but the principal is still the same. They are not on the same “level” to the church.
His comments on "Just needing to feel SOMETHING" ring so very true. Another feeling sometimes with self-harm is that the pressure is so intense that you need to open yourself up to let some of it out. Trust me, I know.
As an atheist, brought up in the catholic church, I appreciate the revelation of McKay Johnson's harrowing experience. Religion has provided comfort for many during difficult times, inspired many to created beautiful music and extraordinary works of visual arts, and unfortunately like many institutions created by men, has brought enormous suffering to a great number of its followers. I sincerely, believe that former Mormons like McKay will contribute to the evolution and much needed changes of the Later Days. LDS desperately needs to become a more understanding and compassioned institution in order to serve its community without judgment, punishment or exploitation. Religion is supposed to be about love, fellowship and the elevation of the human spirit. I am glad that Mckay came out of this crashing ordeal as an outstanding and courageous human being, looking forward to educating and helping others to assert and re-claim their worth and dignity. Bravo!
Definitely get Wes on and do a jam session! His story is intense and heartbreaking. His ex-wife is one of my best friends and knowing what role the church played in hurting both of them just boils my blood.
I am so sorry that happened to you. My son served in South America with a Brazilian companion and a Brazilian mission president. The locals would chase them down and throw rocks at them. The missionaries had been inappropriate with local girls and appeared to pass on this secret knowledge from one missionary to another. My son admitted what was happening to the mission president. My son was sent home and nothing happened to the other missionaries who didn’t confess the truth. There was no accountability or consequences for the other missionaries and it seemed like the LDS church ignored and buried it.
OMG!!! I can hardly listen to this! I just keep shaking my head. Why should a church be involved in a couples love life… both before and after marriage. I’m so sorry for the both of you who went through this! SADNESS. I’m happy to hear you have found peace now. Love to you McKay. PS I’m a 65 year old “Nana”. 🥰
"Us making fun helps us take our power back." I have learned so much from McKay's story and his ability to express his emotions and validate his anger and the anger of others. I am loving this story!
I had to walk away from the Mormon side of my family after they covered up/turned a blind eye to the abuse that happened to my brother and I. My own mother told me that her and her husband prayed to God for forgiveness and God forgave him (my step father) so I should too. The bishop was buddy/buddy with my step father, so he was never held accountable for the soul murder he committed against me. After years of incestuous abuse by my half brother and then being molested by my step father, I left home as a teenager. I went back once in my early 20s. My mother remained delusional and codependent, so I walked away for the last time and never looked back. I was determined to protect my children in the way my brother and I should have been protected. My brother turned to drugs early in life (to cope with the pain of being raped by our half brother) and ended up ODing in 2015. I so wish he had the strength to remove himself from their toxic environment. I know he would be with us today had he been advocated for by our own mother. There's more than one way to murder someone and I whole heartedly believe that she should be held accountable and can only hope that the God she believes in will offer the proper judgment.
Great points made in this video. I'm sorry for the faith crisis you went through. I'm LDS, but not very active, and I am here to learn about how to be more supportive of my friends and family who have left the LDS Church, and while I believe and grew up in a very active family, my parents had lived their teen years in rebellion against the religion, and I don't mean "Mormon rebellion" where they had a few drinks and said a few swear words. They broke the laws and were crazy even by regular standards, so when they raised me in the religion, they didn't get worked up like so many parents do about the small details. I think some of the problems LDS people face (and probably for a lot of other religions) is that all of us have to make peace with the fact that we will die one day, and none of us know what that actually means. And I think when someone has their faith questioned, then it brings that reality crashing in on them. Furthermore, being LDS means that we believe the LDS Church is led by prophets and apostles, but so many people believe that makes them somehow God, which I think unfortunately leads way too many people just unquestionably following every single thing they say instead of realizing they're mortal. I'm sorry for the people who have really struggled under the weight of "Purity Culture." For whatever reason I've never really felt guilty for anything that I've ever done (maybe that's a bad thing), so whenever religious leaders have tried to guilt me, I've just never taken it seriously and figured if they wanted to uninvite me from preparing the sacrament or doing a service project because I joked about porn or didn't feel some humility, I just told them I was glad I had an easy way to get out of more work. Lol. Anyway, while I'm still LDS and try to go more frequently than I do, I really share the same thoughts that these guys have expressed here that "Purity Culture" needs to be relaxed and people to understand that being human is more than hating yourself because you're not some version of "good" that people believe you should be.
Strict Mormons, like other devout, conservative Christians, believe that the most important thing in life is to believe in and follow the highest possible moral standards, without exception. "lose the self in Christ."
Wow the in-laws seem like real pieces of work. And what the ex probably doesn’t know is that whether she wants to admit it or even knows, her new husband more than likely looks at porn too and doesn’t tell her.
I had a very similar experience. I had already realized there was no way the Church was true, based purely on the culture it promotes and the way it treats people, before I ever read the CES letter. Once I read it, my reaction was simply “Yeah, this doesn’t surprise me at all.”
I love the perspective from in the bubble: “they started allowing coke on campus. Big changes were happening.” Loved this interview. McKay is a cool dude and very charismatic and had a very important story. Thanks for sharing and being brave and vulnerable.
This feels so close to home with my divorce. Makes me so sick to hear it's more common than just my story. It is also very validating hearing from you everything that happened. Thank you so much for sharing.
Wow I am not LDS nor have I ever been LDS but I have really learned a lot watching McKay and listening to his experience. I give him credit for coming forward and telling about his experience. I wish him love and the best of everything in life.
I am new to MSP, in ‘23, and trying to better understand religion in the US. This was an incredibly informative podcast by two excellent interviewers and a most articulate interviewee. How positively awful for the three of you to have grown up within a system where you are so horribly shamed for having thoughts of sex and much worse, to actually masturbate. (Durfing! Lol) Then forced to confess your "sin" by the fear of missing out on the celestial kingdom. This entire process of guilt and shaming is what caused MacKay’s divorce. How incredibly pathetic for a religion to inflict this pain on its adherents.
Having already stepped into this discussion, I am not ashamed to go further. I am so thankful for the internet and its opportunity to learn so much more about sex and women, (and what they secretly crave but never tell you). There is not a thing, in my view, wrong with watching porn. For anyone shocked by such a statement, YOU TELL ME, where else are you going to actually learn about sex. If this podcast isn’t enough to make everyone realize that church guidance in dealing with sexual issues is so pathetic that it’s almost criminal, then you have been hopelessly brainwashed. MacKay, and apparently countless others, was suicidal due to having tried to live by the Church’s twisted guidelines on sex. For the church to teach that having premarital sex is second only to murder in the category of heinous sins is stupendously beyond belief. That makes fornication worse than theft, armed robbery, kidnapping of babies, beating children, selling children into sex slavery, and many more horrible ACTUAL crimes. I’m sure that growing up in any religious cult is bad, but I’m getting much insight into just how bad Mormonism is for every child whose parents have never given them any other choice. Pornography is the only way for boys and men to admire the most beautiful thing any male ever sees, which is of course, a woman’s body. But as far as I can tell, EVERY religion finds it to be nothing but an egregious sin for men to want to study the female body unless you go to medical school. Not every man wants to become a doctor, but we ALL want to study the female body, and any man that tells you otherwise is a liar. The clergy preaches that we should avoid any thoughts of sex, but we have only in recent decades been learning how the clergy itself deals with its own sexual desires. Sodomizing young boys, raping nuns and little girls seems to be the norm for many Catholic priests over the centuries. Then there are the Jim Bakkers, Jimmy Swaggarts, Aimee McPhersons and countless other good Christians tripped up by their own sexual desires. MacKay tells us his wife’s response when he comes clean with her about watching porn…the poor fool! Of course, he didn’t know just what nonsense the church had filled his wife’s head with about porn, but I’ve heard this before that a woman is immediately crushed and responds with "You don’t love me, I’m not enough, my body isn’t beautiful to you", NONE of which is the least bit true for any man viewing porn, but women have apparently been told this repeatedly to the point where they believe it as truth. It is religious mantra that is pounded into women’s brains to ensure they will condemn any and all pornography, without having the least little understanding of why men are so fascinated by it. Is it only horse breeders that are familiar with having to geld a stallion because its pent up raging hormones are driving it crazy? Does no one realize humans are very much the same? (Except never get the taming effect of being gelded). I would personally like to thank every religion I’ve ever known of for f’ing up our society so badly regarding how we ought to learn about and think about sex, which every one of us does. It is truly a shame that our society has never come up with a realistic and meaningful way to educate us from an early age about our sexual desires.
I THOROUGHLY AGREE with the statement of an old man who isn’t a health professional, acting in an ecclesiastical setting, should have NO PART in 2 consenting adults’ sex life. This should not be happening. Like McKay, I had premarital sex and was asked very inappropriate questions by a middle aged man who had no business being involved in my sex life. Absolutely a tragic and terrifying experience. This happens with youth and they are asked absolutely inappropriate questions for temple recommends, it needs to stop! They aren’t a health professional and should not be asking those questions.
I dealt with my husband having porn addiction I sent him to Theraphy not the church ! You should have a healthy mindset over sex Mormon culture makes you feel shameful for even having the thought which makes men hide and do things in darkness we need to teach healthy things !
1:13:03 so this is almost exactly what happened in my first marriage. My husband had some addictions (legit not Mormon “addictions”), but being groomed and moulded by the church my entire life, I listened to my church and parents and put so many conditions on the marriage. I got angry and the addictions got worse. Needless to say the marriage ended and I am happily married again but am a totally different person. I am not the yelling, crazy, living-in-a-bubble Mormon I used to be. Mormonism does not teach you how to be a good wife, Mormonism does not teach you how to deal with real life situations. Thank you for sharing your story.
I think… you know how they say that emotional stress eventually manifests itself in a physical way in a person’s body…That it can show up as high blood pressure or fatigue or as some kind of physical illness? I think that when the mental anguish is so intense and the body hasn’t yet gotten physically sick from it and the agony is invisible to people, that the body starts to need to make some kind of manifestation of that emotional pain. The quickest way is to injure the skin, so the brain starts with the idea of causing yourself physical injury. Maybe I’m wrong but that’s how I imagine it. When I felt a deep emotional loss that I couldn’t express well enough or felt unseen about, that’s the first time I understood getting a tattoo. I wanted to mark the loss, memorialize the loss, on my body. I wanted a physical manifestation of my pain. Wanted someone to see my pain so I could talk about it and get relief. I think it’s not the same but gives some insights to how a person goes from hurting emotionally to injuring themselves.
Listened to part 1 and 2 today while doing house chores. Didn't know what a mormon was til a few years ago. I'm 45 yo. Crazy crazy. McKay speaks well and I hope he's beyond happy now! ❤
My husband and I of 2.5 years left the church a few months ago. His pornography use still devastates me today but for different reasons now. I know a lot of people in and out of the church have a hard time with their partners porn use. I was taught a hard lesson when I attended byui that over 70% of men will be watching porn and you have the decision to help your partner overcome it. I get why the wife was so angry about the porn use, as it can ruin relationships. It sounds like she used the church as an easy way out and that’s on her and her family culture, not the church. Not trying to defend the church, but I feel like they do try to have the spouse take a loving approach to it based on the spousal porn recovery videos they put out on TH-cam, which I watched nonstop when we were in the church. Now the way the church views all porn use as an addiction isn’t healthy and there are many many things wrong with how they go about it but I think it’s invalidating to blame the church for someone’s breakdown of the marriage
I also understand why the wife was upset. She didn’t consent to porn in her marriage. I was in a long term relation where there was no Mormonism (I had left and he was never Mormon) and his porn use made me miserable. But I think that’s part of the problem with conversations about how porn ruins relationships. There are degrees to this issue. Some people are talking about ending marriage because her husband watches it once or twice when it can easily be worked through. While others, (like me) he was watching porn while I was asleep next to him or he expected me to imitate porn girls or recreate unrealistic scenes, didn’t believe my “I don’t like this.” In those ways porn is actually very harmful to women and relationships. So, I totally understand why the church or women would not want their husbands to ever view it. It has scary paths. And while I empathize greatly with men who have been put through the wringer for mild porn use (because I also watch porn) many of the church-porn conversations feel like they are gaslighting the very real, very damaged feelings from the wives, chalking them up to “This isn’t a big deal. The church is making you think it is.” Some times it really is a big, big deal. That’s why there needs to be consent. In the end, church needs to step out of this equation so couples can determine this for themselves.
I agree. It’s important for every church to have high standards against the wrong practice of watching and indulging in pornography. It’s not the standard that is wrong it’s the pornography that is wrong. When a man watch is pornography he has been on faithful to his wife.
I agree pornography is a drug and a horrible industry that treats sex workers horribly. It also shows woman treated like garbage. How is that healthy for the human psyche
What a sweet man... Wise beyone his years? Tthis whole discussion thus far with McKay just reinforces for me how vile LDS culture is. Sexuality is what brings life to earth, yet LDS culture has a sick and jaundiced perspective of something god given. Hmmmm.... so the Mormon prophets know the mind of God? Hah! Thank you, McKay, for sharing your deeply personal story. As an "ExMo" myself, it just affirms with profundity my decision to leave a corrupt church. Thank you.
Idk I still don’t think Porn is all that great for people and different physiologist will tell you different things. I think it’s just important to do your own research especially with a spouse/partner and find common ground. I’m not against porn like I’m not against social media but there is something about it that isn’t all that great for our minds.
Wow. Both of the podcasts with McKay just sound so familiar. Had some crappy companions on the mission and the same thing happened to my brother and his wife. Crazy how every mormon is pretty much cut from the same mold.
I loved McKay's story! That tik toc he mentioned was the first one I saw on his channel. I am going to Thrive in November and look forward to meeting all of you guys 😊 Thank you John and Carah! Mormon stories has helped me so much over the past few months❤
Mormons have a hard time with anyone who likes anything different in general. I can't imagine natural talent musician being expected to be a better husband by driving out their own soul and say becoming a life insurance salesman for church's business. This just adds yet a corner to the cookie cutter. It sounds like "God wants you to be blessed with all your dreams but not really." What used to seem normal back then seems extremely cultish now. I've experienced a lot of this (cutting, facecutting, pr0n guilt, shelf breaking). I wouldn't have known just how common it is but the more I research, the more common and ubiquitous it seems.
I was raised in the church and had one. I would like to hear how the Patriarchal Elder, the one that gives the blessing, gets ALL the detailed and private information about the individual getting the blessing. He knew everything about me.
@@holdonC well generally they sit down with you quite extensively before the "blessing" and talk to you to get to know you. They ask questions about your life goals, aspirations, serving missions etc. Then those things are highlighted in the "blessing".
@@UTarcher72 You are correct. I had mine done in the 90’s and it has been awhile. I do remember having a mini interview session beforehand. I also remember his wife being in the room and something about her transcribing for him. Since I am female and only raised in the church until I was around 21 I don’t know the male knowledge on this process and am interested to know if they speak with individual bishops or the father for info too.
Every story I have listened to since discovering this channel I hear or relate to a piece of each story from my own experiences being raised in the church.
McKay……good for you! You are a great speaker, and thank you for sharing your experience and life story. You are very caring and helpful. Please keep loving You first! You have gone thru a lot and many others have also suffered. Therapy helps, education too and people who love you ! So proud of you, your strength is comforting to this former catholic. Blessings to you.
What makes me so angry is that the church hurts people so deeply that they drive them away from Christ all together. So thankful you have left the cult. God is very real. The Book of Mormon doesn’t have evidence. The Bible & life of Jesus does have evidence. Our existence is not possible without a creator. 🙏🏼🌈
30:27 To the dad's credit? Being able to have sex once a month, it's easy to dish out advice on postponement to abstinent youngsters in a hormonal rage.
"The Miracle of Forgiveness", maybe a better name would have been "Its a Miracle if There is Forgiveness" As an exmo forgiveness seemed to be in short supply.
The attitude towards pornography would really create an impossible standard that will only cause disappointment when every married woman will feel let down if their husband is honest with them! They are setting the youth up to fail at marriage! It is so unfair.
Empathy for other people and seeing pharaseeacal (spell?) tendencies in the church is what broke my shelf, too. God literally led me out of the church - what I perceived as God anyway, and what I now call my gut/intuition. I saw how it destroyed both my mental health and the health of those around me. It wasn't spiritually uplifting anymore. I relate so much to your story. So much more I want to say. Thank you for sharing 💛💛
I'm an atheist progressive, but labeling a wife's/female partner's heartfelt objections to her guy's watching porn as being wrongheaded is unfair and biased. Secular women often experience these same feelings of betrayal and infidelity when they learn about the man in their life viewing porn. It's something that guys have a hard time understanding because sex is primarily physical for guys. But for females, sex is as much or more about emotion and emotional connection as a physical act. Also, many females are unaware of the physiological reason guys experience sexual arousal and the need for physical sexual release: seminal fluid pressure buildup within the prostate gland.
Recently, I stopped at Temple Square as a tourist (the organ recital in the Tabernacle was awesome). I was simultaneously happy and sad for the 'sisters' roaming the grounds. Those kids are so in awe of the dogma I am envious of their faith. At the same time, as a 70 year old gay man, I couldn't help be feel sorry for them as they drown in their naivety. I can only wish them Godspeed in their spiritual journey.
@@mormonstories we have been to a marriage therapist together and on one to one. My husband has been to lots of therapists on his own, nothing has helped to changed. Please help
Wow the fact you came so close to suicide is terrible!!! Next my sons ex wife did the exact crap! Lucky for my wonderful now out open gay son we got to see his real happiness emerge!!! Good job for moving forward and I hope your so happy!!!!
@@gregoryglavinovich9259 I think whatever word Sophia's child uses to describe themselves is what she 'needs'. I'm gay/queer, and frankly, policing language on how one describes themselves is just as damaging and ignorant as pretending that it's a choice. Do better.
I want to reach through the screen and hug this guy. I am not mormon, but I am closely tied to a few and it gives me so much compassion for them and also explains alot and all of them seem so Internally conflicted- and thanks to mormon stories I get it
When I was a child, our next door neighbors (who were catholic) got divorced because the husband viewed porn. I am so thankful that my parents were willing to be open about talking about it in our house. They talked about the absurdity of that in it of itself. But they also talked a lot about the fact that their church does not accept divorces. Because they got divorced, the wife was kicked out of the church, but the husband wasn’t. I think it was conversations like that which made me aware of culty religions
This is reminiscent of the Middle Eastern views on woman getting sexually assaulted...and being blamed, ostracized and murdered by their families. This issue should be taken up by student’s and faculty of BYU, and the LDS.
I sincerely appreciate McKay sharing his story. I agree there is an unreasonable expectation and conversation in the church regarding porn. A couple needs to be able to discuss porn and consent to porn boundaries because, as John mentioned, like every vice it’s something that can get out of control or corrupt a couple’s sex life. I wish the church would create an environment where couples feel comfortable discussing these things instead of immediately denigrating the user or encouraging the other spouse’s feelings of exclusion and insecurity. I’ve had two wildly different experiences of porn use in two relationships. One was extremely damaging, the other healthy and exciting. I could not have had the good sex relationship with my husband if we had not from the beginning openly discussed porn, responsible use and ways for it to bring us together. It’s all about communication which isn’t exclusively a church problem (my ex was a never Mormon) but the church helps create walls that make acceptance and communication impossible.
She was the ONLY woman at the disciplinary council…..let that sink in. No, PICTURE IT. Fuck me, this is some story bro. Thank you sooooo so so much for speaking up ❤ I was made to read my journal out loud as the “leaders” sat on the opposite side of the room and decided what to do with me. The word “harlot” was used 🙄 😆 😬 As someone who never identified to a specific gender it was very difficult to accept the fact I’d been a victim and I still struggle today to see myself as someone who was taken advantage of and I really feel the rage, the “how dare you”-ness. You are such a vibe for this Earth.
It would be interesting to hear her side. Based on what he said I feel she gave up way too fast. Was there other factors? I know the career path is not a “secure” one financially. I am a drummer myself in a band but it’s a hobby and we put music on iTunes but I have a day job. Sad all the way around. I need to listen to the first part about his mission. But with this, it’s curious to me how porn tore her world apart if you will but having sex before marriage was not as a “big deal”….just my thoughts. I’m sure she has a side so I won’t say she was horrible but I don’t agree with how things were handled if he truly did all hers and her family’s wishes (which why involve all the family?!)…just curious.
I hope this man does well now! I feel like that could actually be damaging to a guy. Something I have just recently learned after being single over 10yrs when my sons mom shacked up with some ass who her best friend set her up with on a "girls night out" is its not good to always surpress the penis. This can lead to erection problems, wet dreams, increased risk of heart disease (which I have now) , and increased risk of prostate cancer. Also I have heard you can actually loose it entirely if you go too long with no masterbation or anything. I feel like we have a war against masculine men and the sex drive God gave us. This isnt fair and many of the women today dont want to be what got created them to be. A partner to man so he not be lonely, a helper in life, and to bear and raise the children. God help us! 🙏
It’s not the lords university. It’s the brethrens. They put themselves and Joseph well above the god they are Supposed to be worshipping and representing.
Very authentic and honest guy. Too bad his ex wife left a person with integrity for an illusion and a life based on fairy tale, she will realize that when she’s 50 or older
Remember that band from the 1990's called The Presidents of the United States of America? Instead of "I'm moving to the country, I'm gonna eat a lot of peaches" How about this? "I'm moving out of Utah, don't agree with what the Book of Mormon teaches"
1:25:30 I’ve described losing my faith in God like this. You sew the Gospel and belief in God into every part of yourself,l. When you lose your faith that thread doesn’t come out clean. It rips and tears as it pulls out. Losing faith in the church, but especially God is incredibly painful. The wounds take a long time to heal.
@@carolhale4331 I appreciate that, and I hope he really does. Why does he have to hide from us though? I sincerely am asking. I know the answers that most religions give. We need to be tested. It defeats the purpose of faith. But if it’s a test, it’s not a very fair one. As a teacher, I make sure my students know what is going to be on the test before I give it. There are so many versions of God out there, and so many “one true paths” that it’s almost impossible to know what is actually the right answers to the test. They all claim they are the right way, and they all say they know their religion or God is the right one because of how they feel. They can’t all be right. Or if they are all right and it’s one God who doesn’t care what religion or God we believe in, what’s the point in faith? Why can’t he let us know he’s there? Why do we have to stumble through hoping we are on the right path but never knowing for sure? Right now, having a relationship with God is a one way street. We put in all the faith and hope that he’s actually there, and he sits up somewhere beyond and does his own thing. Maybe occasionally he helps someone find their keys when they pray for help. But he’s not ending war, or hunger, or suffering, or disease, cancer, the pandemic etc. he’ll also throw a random natural disaster at us because… ??? To test us? Again, for what purpose? I promise, I want God to be real. I want a loving heavenly parent that knows me personally. That was the most devastating loss for me. But most Gods that people worship don’t seem to care very much about their children.
@@frutcakes6370 This was so long ago. I forget the point I was making or even if I was making a point. I would be glad to answer your question if you are asking me about my comparison. If you would just explain the point you are making about the video and may be then I can answer what I was trying to say. Help me understand what your point is in relationship to what I said.?
@@frutcakes6370 I remember now. I can see why you might say that. However I was just showing the link between females being sexually abused can effect them latter on in life in sleeping around. Just like the person saying porn stars have been sexually abused. I was just may be validating what the earlier message said. I find it fascinating myself. Any other questions please ask? Nevertheless, I appreciate what you are saying that women have been trafficked into porn. But there has also been women and men who have been sexually abused are now in the porn industry. I did not mean to upset you in any way. My apologies if I did. I was just validating what the earlier messenger was saying.
K, this one ought to be an interesting one for sure. P*rn certainly is more than a Mormon approves/disapproves issue so very curious to see the take on this subject.
Im halfway thru worrying now did he go see Jodi 😬 Side note: my phone autopopulates the word "traumatization" as the middle button after i type Jodi now.
I’m not trying to be insensitive or anything with this comment. But from the perspective of a woman I am questioning if your ex wife just wanted an excuse to leave and you and when you told her she finally had her out.
The fact his ex wife just went behind his back and changing her Facebook and other things just shows how childish she was and how Mormonism is damaging to youth and getting married.
Please get True Ott on your program.. He wrote the book "Free at Last".. I just found out about it. Read it and now my heart is so broken💔💔. I feel like a fish out of water.... The LDS community NEED to know about this and we NEED to join together and GET this knowledge out.. We MUST save the children
@@Jupiter_Crash I have been deep diving into cults for several years, I can’t say I find any most fascinating. What fascinates me is what they have in common and what is different. An example is Mormons vs Jehovah’s Witnesses. Mormons want their people highly educated in a controlled environment so they can pay more tithing. JWs do not encourage education at all, claiming the world is nearing the end and they will need practical skills. I assume JWs want theirs dumb so they are easier to control and Mormons want the $$ ? I am really familiar with Scientology and I guess I’m fascinated by that group on many levels.
@@Jupiter_Crash I watched the documentary about Qanon and I was disgusted. The Watkins are the creepiest people. If you look at the history and how the old man made his $, that’s all you need to know about those freaks. I’m constantly amazed by conspiracy followers. I key in on how at some point these people are brainwashing themselves.
McKay's wife surely related his porn use to consenting to premarital sex. So requiring McKay to jump through all those hoops was both projection of her own shame, and anger at him for being part of it. I think the guilt of the premarital sex doomed the marriage before it even started - and if it wasn't pornography use, she would have latched onto something else to distance herself from that internalized shame. But then again, had McKay waited, he may have been tracked onto a different lifestyle to please her and her family, and ended up finding a reason to leave her.
McKay, youtube offered ExMoLex to me out of the blue, and I've never been Mormon and don't even have a cell phone. I think it's just that people in general enjoy her. Then youtube started offering me other things from the exMo community. So, maybe your phone is not listening to you. lol
My little sister told me my mother wasn't 🙄 happy(?) When she 1st got married, she said "that's it?" I hope she didn't say this to my dad's face, but working up this big "tabu" thing until (for lack of a better word) climax & your partner pre-ejaculates 😵(?)
When he mentioned becoming suicidal because he was told that he should quit drumming and pick a new career path, I hope people will recognize that lds women (especially in the past), were told to give up any career aspirations at all, and be stay at home mothers.
🎤 mic drop 🎤
Add to that, women are asked to give up their own family identity by dropping their last name when they marry.
@iamjustsaying i cant find your other comment = so....for the word gay = it is easy = use the dictionary = it means happy. The correct word is Homosexual, not gay
As a woman raised in the LDS church this was a defining moment for me in my leaving the church. I remember sitting in a YW lesson on keeping our homes clean. A lesson on keeping a godly home clean and neat. A comment was made about going to college was ok to spend time while finding your husband but once married everything you do will be wifely and motherly duties. I remember sitting there and listening to these women leaders tell how many credits they were short of finishing their college degree because once married they stopped college.
@@holdonC Yep. And women in my day were looked down upon if they worked outside the home. We all knew what was expected of us, and most dutifully followed the prophet, thinking that it was God's will.
“Your cult has been responsible for most of the darkness in my life” has got to be one of the most powerful statements I’ve heard! Thanks for your story!
Ditto! That quote is one for the history books of “best quotes ever”
Interesting. I have a friend who is a doctor in Europe somewhere and we have talked often. It is interesting. Taxes are so high, and if you want private medicine, it is far more expensive. For this topic, it is a bit of a red herring, but still interesting.
Mormons are not a cult.
He needs to grow up,and take responsibility for his own choices. For most, drumming is not a profitable career. It is a wonderful hobby, and a few gigs can really help,pad the family budget. I think there is a lack of understanding.
@@chandelcampbell8580 read steven hassans booknon cults and high deman religions. Mormonism hits almost all the boxes of what is considered a cult except for the most physically harmful ones. Just cause the church doesn’t physically torture you in a basement of make you drink you poison doesn’t mean its not a cult. We are indoctrinated from the day we are born into the church or convert. Nobody in a cult EVER believes they are in a cult. I didn’t for 40 years.
I’m not a Mormon. I can’t even remember how I started watching Mormon Stories. As an outsider, I have a couple of observations. First, the Church seems far more sinister and coercive than I had ever imagined. Second, it seems to produce exceptionally open, honest, bright, good people. Why should that be?
My theory is that good people have always been taken advantage of by corrupt people and institutions. The church didn't make them good people, it attracts good people who are too trusting to know that they're dealing with wolves in sheep's clothing.
I think about this a lot. It could be that experiencing opposing sides, as a believer then a nonbeliever, breeds empathy and openness.
They must be obediently open, honest, bright, good people. It’s not genuine for so many once they leave, they turn into really horrible people, sadly.
It really isn't that bad. It isn't like the devil runs the church or anything like that. They are people that are deluding themselves because they don't want to be the one to call out BS.
It’s because they are told they have to be perfect to enter the celestial kingdom. Their highest level of heaven.
Getting kicked out of BYU for being assaulted feels like a cult
This story is word for word what happened to a male relative of mine. She wanted to divorce him the moment he came clean about looking at porn. She included her parents and sisters who made the situation 10x worse.
They encouraged her to go “no contact” to punish him for looking at it again. Seriously, how do you work through marriage problems when you’re apart and not talking?
After two months of no contact she came back wanting a divorce with the support of her family. It broke him to the point of thinking suicide. It was the darkest period of his life.
It all ended happy though. He’s remarried to a wonderful girl and has a baby.
Two friends of mine got a divorce but they still live together! I just don't understand it! After reading your comment I am wondering if it is a mormon thing.
Lots of research out there that is not Mormon based, describing the betrayal trauma that is caused by a partner betraying their trust about agreed upon sexual boundaries. She shouldn’t be shamed for choosing what felt safest to her. If he lied from the start of the marriage then he robbed her of the ability to choose for herself the life she wanted. I’m glad she knew what she wanted once he finally came clean. His lies hurt himself by delaying the inevitable. Would have hurt less had he been honest and she left before marriage. Let’s not victim shame. He manipulated her, and once she realized it’s only fair she choose her own path.
@@GL-yg8uc I don’t argue that he didn’t betray her, or that she shouldn’t feel traumatized by the betrayal. What I’m saying is that her reaction was absurd. Ending an otherwise good marriage because he was looking at porn 1x a month?
And what was she trying to accomplish by moving out? Do you think that withholding sex was going to make the problem better or worse?
As the sole woman sitting before a body of Elders, the humilliation and NO advocate beside me, asking really stupid questions, such as "What kind of magazines do you read?" I answerrd truthfully, 'Womans Day & Fsmily Circle', (scandolus right?) Abd when they asked nit only a humilliating, very personal question, i answered "thats none of your business" and I never returned. My relationship with my Heavenly Father is also no one elses business.
as an exmo i do have to say that porn broke up my marriage.... post Mormonism. I felt continually betrayed, and it had nothing to do with Mormonism, it had to do with biology and sexual inequality.. What was sexually available to me (flirting elsewhere etc ) I would turn away from, where he wouldn't. turn away from what turned him on outside of our marriage which was porn.. Porn hurting relationships isn't due to what religions say about it.
Well... wouldn't most womens' equivalent of porn be ROMANCE NOVELS?
@garythomas4936 no not at all!
@garythomas4936 women watch porn too... it's addicting. Romance novels can be soft porn but nowhere near the same.
Porn addiction is different from viewing it once per month for curiosity or self release. I have more issue of what drives people to produce and perform in porn. It is never a cheerful story.
If you told me I would spend most of this day listening to an ex-Mormon’s story, I would say you were nuts. However, your story and how music has really saved your life makes me so proud for you, McKay❤️. ROCK ON🎵
This story is heartbreaking. For his ex wife to not realize he is a good man is ridiculously frustrating .
Always Illuminating and thought-provoking. I'm not a Mormon past or present but as an Idaho native and a graduate of Idaho State U. I have been in the midst and have had many dear friends and gone through the "enlightening" sessions. There are so many positives I could say about the people and I love them. I also know the harm that has been done to so many. You help me understand myself and others and I appreciate the work you all do.
Bishop roulette is so frustrating. He mentioned that when he admitted to “durfing”, the bishop maybe at worst asked him to not take sacrament for one Sunday… and just said to stop doing it. I was in a situation where a guy I was dating started to “durf” (I knew it as dry humping back then) when we were making out. I actually didn’t want him to do that, but I didn’t have enough of a backbone at that time to stop it so I tried to figure out a really passive way to get him to stop. But he would continue to do it every now and then when we we’re making out. Looking back, of course I wish I had been more vocal and was clear about what I was and was not comfortable with, but I guess I had to learn the hard way. I decided to bring this up months later to a bishop when I was trying to get “back on the path” by renewing my temple recommend, and I thought for sure he would understand that it wasn’t something I was wanting or participating in, but instead he just went straight into discipline mode and told me I wouldn’t be able to take the sacrament for like 6 weeks or something, and that I would need to come in and talk to him weekly as we worked through the repentance process. After trying multiple times to get the bishop to understand I wasn’t participating and didn’t even want it to be happening, he insisted I still needed to go through what is essentially public shaming for weeks before God would apparently forgive me. I felt so unheard and misunderstood and judged. I never went back to that ward again, and I ended up being inactive for probably a year or two afterwards. Why do men seem to get less church discipline for sexual matters than women? I guess because it’s a man who is always determining the severity of discipline and never a woman? A man can’t understand a woman’s position or relate to it as much as he can a man? I don’t know. It’s really messed up.
The church was built on a foundation where the women were on a lower class than the men, and that means they’re not viewed the same, treated less than, and the man/“priesthood” holder always is taken more seriously/believed over the woman. It’s obviously way better than it was in the 1800’s, but the principal is still the same. They are not on the same “level” to the church.
I was dis fellowshiped for getting pregnant at 16 but my 19 almost 20 boyfriend didn't. It's absolutely biased against women.
His comments on "Just needing to feel SOMETHING" ring so very true. Another feeling sometimes with self-harm is that the pressure is so intense that you need to open yourself up to let some of it out.
Trust me, I know.
🧡
As an atheist, brought up in the catholic church, I appreciate the revelation of McKay Johnson's harrowing experience. Religion has provided comfort for many during difficult times, inspired many to created beautiful music and extraordinary works of visual arts, and unfortunately like many institutions created by men, has brought enormous suffering to a great number of its followers. I sincerely, believe that former Mormons like McKay will contribute to the evolution and much needed changes of the Later Days. LDS desperately needs to become a more understanding and compassioned institution in order to serve its community without judgment, punishment or exploitation. Religion is supposed to be about love, fellowship and the elevation of the human spirit. I am glad that Mckay came out of this crashing ordeal as an outstanding and courageous human being, looking forward to educating and helping others to assert and re-claim their worth and dignity. Bravo!
Definitely get Wes on and do a jam session! His story is intense and heartbreaking. His ex-wife is one of my best friends and knowing what role the church played in hurting both of them just boils my blood.
I am so sorry that happened to you. My son served in South America with a Brazilian companion and a Brazilian mission president. The locals would chase them down and throw rocks at them.
The missionaries had been inappropriate with local girls and appeared to pass on this secret knowledge from one missionary to another.
My son admitted what was happening to the mission president. My son was sent home and nothing happened to the other missionaries who didn’t confess the truth. There was no accountability or consequences for the other missionaries and it seemed like the LDS church ignored and buried it.
OMG!!! I can hardly listen to this! I just keep shaking my head. Why should a church be involved in a couples love life… both before and after marriage. I’m so sorry for the both of you who went through this! SADNESS. I’m happy to hear you have found peace now. Love to you McKay.
PS I’m a 65 year old “Nana”. 🥰
"Us making fun helps us take our power back."
I have learned so much from McKay's story and his ability to express his emotions and validate his anger and the anger of others. I am loving this story!
I had to walk away from the Mormon side of my family after they covered up/turned a blind eye to the abuse that happened to my brother and I.
My own mother told me that her and her husband prayed to God for forgiveness and God forgave him (my step father) so I should too.
The bishop was buddy/buddy with my step father, so he was never held accountable for the soul murder he committed against me.
After years of incestuous abuse by my half brother and then being molested by my step father, I left home as a teenager. I went back once in my early 20s. My mother remained delusional and codependent, so I walked away for the last time and never looked back. I was determined to protect my children in the way my brother and I should have been protected.
My brother turned to drugs early in life (to cope with the pain of being raped by our half brother) and ended up ODing in 2015.
I so wish he had the strength to remove himself from their toxic environment. I know he would be with us today had he been advocated for by our own mother.
There's more than one way to murder someone and I whole heartedly believe that she should be held accountable and can only hope that the God she believes in will offer the proper judgment.
Great points made in this video. I'm sorry for the faith crisis you went through. I'm LDS, but not very active, and I am here to learn about how to be more supportive of my friends and family who have left the LDS Church, and while I believe and grew up in a very active family, my parents had lived their teen years in rebellion against the religion, and I don't mean "Mormon rebellion" where they had a few drinks and said a few swear words. They broke the laws and were crazy even by regular standards, so when they raised me in the religion, they didn't get worked up like so many parents do about the small details.
I think some of the problems LDS people face (and probably for a lot of other religions) is that all of us have to make peace with the fact that we will die one day, and none of us know what that actually means. And I think when someone has their faith questioned, then it brings that reality crashing in on them. Furthermore, being LDS means that we believe the LDS Church is led by prophets and apostles, but so many people believe that makes them somehow God, which I think unfortunately leads way too many people just unquestionably following every single thing they say instead of realizing they're mortal.
I'm sorry for the people who have really struggled under the weight of "Purity Culture." For whatever reason I've never really felt guilty for anything that I've ever done (maybe that's a bad thing), so whenever religious leaders have tried to guilt me, I've just never taken it seriously and figured if they wanted to uninvite me from preparing the sacrament or doing a service project because I joked about porn or didn't feel some humility, I just told them I was glad I had an easy way to get out of more work. Lol. Anyway, while I'm still LDS and try to go more frequently than I do, I really share the same thoughts that these guys have expressed here that "Purity Culture" needs to be relaxed and people to understand that being human is more than hating yourself because you're not some version of "good" that people believe you should be.
Strict Mormons, like other devout, conservative Christians, believe that the most important thing in life is to believe in and follow the highest possible moral standards, without exception.
"lose the self in Christ."
With the Mormon attitude towards porn, how in the heck do they justify supporting the former president?
Or do they?
Devout Mormons like everyone else to to the polls, hold their noses, and vote.
@@Idahoguy10157 So politics tops religion for Mormons? (and many other so-called "Christians") Got it.
Wow the in-laws seem like real pieces of work. And what the ex probably doesn’t know is that whether she wants to admit it or even knows, her new husband more than likely looks at porn too and doesn’t tell her.
%53 of Pastors!
@@EricSmyth4Christ probably an understatement tbh.
@@johnhorner1969 They were interviewed right after a talk on honesty
Would you believe me if I said I went 3,600 days no p0rn?
@@EricSmyth4Christ if you said no porn and no masturbation no I wouldn’t.
@@johnhorner1969 Maybe he has a really cool wife? Who knows.
I had a very similar experience. I had already realized there was no way the Church was true, based purely on the culture it promotes and the way it treats people, before I ever read the CES letter.
Once I read it, my reaction was simply “Yeah, this doesn’t surprise me at all.”
I love the perspective from in the bubble: “they started allowing coke on campus. Big changes were happening.” Loved this interview. McKay is a cool dude and very charismatic and had a very important story. Thanks for sharing and being brave and vulnerable.
This feels so close to home with my divorce. Makes me so sick to hear it's more common than just my story. It is also very validating hearing from you everything that happened. Thank you so much for sharing.
Wow I am not LDS nor have I ever been LDS but I have really learned a lot watching McKay and listening to his experience. I give him credit for coming forward and telling about his experience. I wish him love and the best of everything in life.
I am new to MSP, in ‘23, and trying to better understand religion in the US. This was an incredibly informative podcast by two excellent interviewers and a most articulate interviewee. How positively awful for the three of you to have grown up within a system where you are so horribly shamed for having thoughts of sex and much worse, to actually masturbate. (Durfing! Lol) Then forced to confess your "sin" by the fear of missing out on the celestial kingdom. This entire process of guilt and shaming is what caused MacKay’s divorce. How incredibly pathetic for a religion to inflict this pain on its adherents.
Having already stepped into this discussion, I am not ashamed to go further. I am so thankful for the internet and its opportunity to learn so much more about sex and women, (and what they secretly crave but never tell you). There is not a thing, in my view, wrong with watching porn. For anyone shocked by such a statement, YOU TELL ME, where else are you going to actually learn about sex. If this podcast isn’t enough to make everyone realize that church guidance in dealing with sexual issues is so pathetic that it’s almost criminal, then you have been hopelessly brainwashed. MacKay, and apparently countless others, was suicidal due to having tried to live by the Church’s twisted guidelines on sex. For the church to teach that having premarital sex is second only to murder in the category of heinous sins is stupendously beyond belief. That makes fornication worse than theft, armed robbery, kidnapping of babies, beating children, selling children into sex slavery, and many more horrible ACTUAL crimes. I’m sure that growing up in any religious cult is bad, but I’m getting much insight into just how bad Mormonism is for every child whose parents have never given them any other choice.
Pornography is the only way for boys and men to admire the most beautiful thing any male ever sees, which is of course, a woman’s body. But as far as I can tell, EVERY religion finds it to be nothing but an egregious sin for men to want to study the female body unless you go to medical school. Not every man wants to become a doctor, but we ALL want to study the female body, and any man that tells you otherwise is a liar. The clergy preaches that we should avoid any thoughts of sex, but we have only in recent decades been learning how the clergy itself deals with its own sexual desires. Sodomizing young boys, raping nuns and little girls seems to be the norm for many Catholic priests over the centuries. Then there are the Jim Bakkers, Jimmy Swaggarts, Aimee McPhersons and countless other good Christians tripped up by their own sexual desires.
MacKay tells us his wife’s response when he comes clean with her about watching porn…the poor fool! Of course, he didn’t know just what nonsense the church had filled his wife’s head with about porn, but I’ve heard this before that a woman is immediately crushed and responds with "You don’t love me, I’m not enough, my body isn’t beautiful to you", NONE of which is the least bit true for any man viewing porn, but women have apparently been told this repeatedly to the point where they believe it as truth. It is religious mantra that is pounded into women’s brains to ensure they will condemn any and all pornography, without having the least little understanding of why men are so fascinated by it.
Is it only horse breeders that are familiar with having to geld a stallion because its pent up raging hormones are driving it crazy? Does no one realize humans are very much the same? (Except never get the taming effect of being gelded). I would personally like to thank every religion I’ve ever known of for f’ing up our society so badly regarding how we ought to learn about and think about sex, which every one of us does.
It is truly a shame that our society has never come up with a realistic and meaningful way to educate us from an early age about our sexual desires.
I THOROUGHLY AGREE with the statement of an old man who isn’t a health professional, acting in an ecclesiastical setting, should have NO PART in 2 consenting adults’ sex life. This should not be happening.
Like McKay, I had premarital sex and was asked very inappropriate questions by a middle aged man who had no business being involved in my sex life. Absolutely a tragic and terrifying experience. This happens with youth and they are asked absolutely inappropriate questions for temple recommends, it needs to stop! They aren’t a health professional and should not be asking those questions.
I dealt with my husband having porn addiction I sent him to Theraphy not the church ! You should have a healthy mindset over sex Mormon culture makes you feel shameful for even having the thought which makes men hide and do things in darkness we need to teach healthy things !
More people are dealing with this than we care to admit. It’s very destructive to marriages
1:13:03 so this is almost exactly what happened in my first marriage. My husband had some addictions (legit not Mormon “addictions”), but being groomed and moulded by the church my entire life, I listened to my church and parents and put so many conditions on the marriage. I got angry and the addictions got worse. Needless to say the marriage ended and I am happily married again but am a totally different person. I am not the yelling, crazy, living-in-a-bubble Mormon I used to be. Mormonism does not teach you how to be a good wife, Mormonism does not teach you how to deal with real life situations. Thank you for sharing your story.
I think… you know how they say that emotional stress eventually manifests itself in a physical way in a person’s body…That it can show up as high blood pressure or fatigue or as some kind of physical illness? I think that when the mental anguish is so intense and the body hasn’t yet gotten physically sick from it and the agony is invisible to people, that the body starts to need to make some kind of manifestation of that emotional pain. The quickest way is to injure the skin, so the brain starts with the idea of causing yourself physical injury.
Maybe I’m wrong but that’s how I imagine it.
When I felt a deep emotional loss that I couldn’t express well enough or felt unseen about, that’s the first time I understood getting a tattoo. I wanted to mark the loss, memorialize the loss, on my body. I wanted a physical manifestation of my pain. Wanted someone to see my pain so I could talk about it and get relief.
I think it’s not the same but gives some insights to how a person goes from hurting emotionally to injuring themselves.
Listened to part 1 and 2 today while doing house chores. Didn't know what a mormon was til a few years ago. I'm 45 yo. Crazy crazy. McKay speaks well and I hope he's beyond happy now! ❤
My husband and I of 2.5 years left the church a few months ago. His pornography use still devastates me today but for different reasons now. I know a lot of people in and out of the church have a hard time with their partners porn use. I was taught a hard lesson when I attended byui that over 70% of men will be watching porn and you have the decision to help your partner overcome it. I get why the wife was so angry about the porn use, as it can ruin relationships. It sounds like she used the church as an easy way out and that’s on her and her family culture, not the church. Not trying to defend the church, but I feel like they do try to have the spouse take a loving approach to it based on the spousal porn recovery videos they put out on TH-cam, which I watched nonstop when we were in the church. Now the way the church views all porn use as an addiction isn’t healthy and there are many many things wrong with how they go about it but I think it’s invalidating to blame the church for someone’s breakdown of the marriage
I also understand why the wife was upset. She didn’t consent to porn in her marriage. I was in a long term relation where there was no Mormonism (I had left and he was never Mormon) and his porn use made me miserable. But I think that’s part of the problem with conversations about how porn ruins relationships. There are degrees to this issue. Some people are talking about ending marriage because her husband watches it once or twice when it can easily be worked through. While others, (like me) he was watching porn while I was asleep next to him or he expected me to imitate porn girls or recreate unrealistic scenes, didn’t believe my “I don’t like this.” In those ways porn is actually very harmful to women and relationships. So, I totally understand why the church or women would not want their husbands to ever view it. It has scary paths. And while I empathize greatly with men who have been put through the wringer for mild porn use (because I also watch porn) many of the church-porn conversations feel like they are gaslighting the very real, very damaged feelings from the wives, chalking them up to “This isn’t a big deal. The church is making you think it is.” Some times it really is a big, big deal. That’s why there needs to be consent. In the end, church needs to step out of this equation so couples can determine this for themselves.
I agree. It’s important for every church to have high standards against the wrong practice of watching and indulging in pornography. It’s not the standard that is wrong it’s the pornography that is wrong. When a man watch is pornography he has been on faithful to his wife.
Unfaithful
I agree pornography is a drug and a horrible industry that treats sex workers horribly. It also shows woman treated like garbage. How is that healthy for the human psyche
What a sweet man... Wise beyone his years? Tthis whole discussion thus far with McKay just reinforces for me how vile LDS culture is. Sexuality is what brings life to earth, yet LDS culture has a sick and jaundiced perspective of something god given. Hmmmm.... so the Mormon prophets know the mind of God? Hah! Thank you, McKay, for sharing your deeply personal story. As an "ExMo" myself, it just affirms with profundity my decision to leave a corrupt church. Thank you.
John’s face at 1:33:02 is my personal favorite part of this lol
Hilarious 😂
Idk I still don’t think Porn is all that great for people and different physiologist will tell you different things. I think it’s just important to do your own research especially with a spouse/partner and find common ground. I’m not against porn like I’m not against social media but there is something about it that isn’t all that great for our minds.
Agreed
Wow. Both of the podcasts with McKay just sound so familiar. Had some crappy companions on the mission and the same thing happened to my brother and his wife. Crazy how every mormon is pretty much cut from the same mold.
I loved McKay's story! That tik toc he mentioned was the first one I saw on his channel. I am going to Thrive in November and look forward to meeting all of you guys 😊 Thank you John and Carah! Mormon stories has helped me so much over the past few months❤
Mormons have a hard time with anyone who likes anything different in general. I can't imagine natural talent musician being expected to be a better husband by driving out their own soul and say becoming a life insurance salesman for church's business. This just adds yet a corner to the cookie cutter. It sounds like "God wants you to be blessed with all your dreams but not really." What used to seem normal back then seems extremely cultish now. I've experienced a lot of this (cutting, facecutting, pr0n guilt, shelf breaking). I wouldn't have known just how common it is but the more I research, the more common and ubiquitous it seems.
Y'all are the best. Thanks for sharing and being vulnerable, McKay.
Patriarchal blessing = Mormon horoscopes. Change my mind.
I was raised in the church and had one. I would like to hear how the Patriarchal Elder, the one that gives the blessing, gets ALL the detailed and private information about the individual getting the blessing. He knew everything about me.
@@holdonC well generally they sit down with you quite extensively before the "blessing" and talk to you to get to know you. They ask questions about your life goals, aspirations, serving missions etc. Then those things are highlighted in the "blessing".
@@UTarcher72 You are correct. I had mine done in the 90’s and it has been awhile. I do remember having a mini interview session beforehand. I also remember his wife being in the room and something about her transcribing for him. Since I am female and only raised in the church until I was around 21 I don’t know the male knowledge on this process and am interested to know if they speak with individual bishops or the father for info too.
Every story I have listened to since discovering this channel I hear or relate to a piece of each story from my own experiences being raised in the church.
McKay……good for you! You are a great speaker, and thank you for sharing your experience and life story. You are very caring and helpful. Please keep loving You first!
You have gone thru a lot and many others have also suffered. Therapy helps, education too and people who love you ! So proud of you, your strength is comforting to this former catholic. Blessings to you.
What makes me so angry is that the church hurts people so deeply that they drive them away from Christ all together. So thankful you have left the cult. God is very real. The Book of Mormon doesn’t have evidence. The Bible & life of Jesus does have evidence. Our existence is not possible without a creator. 🙏🏼🌈
The bible has absolutely no evidence at all. Your cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias are on full display. Stop proselytising.
The church’s views on sex before marriage, sun next ti murder, is the most absurd teaching ever! Huge damage to me and my marriage choices.
Huge damage in many ways. Like I have heard some in these stories say they felt dirty or stained. Once feeling that way they leaned all the way in.
30:27 To the dad's credit? Being able to have sex once a month, it's easy to dish out advice on postponement to abstinent youngsters in a hormonal rage.
She’s no saint either having sex before marriage. I’m not bagging on anyone. Just a thought. We all come to marriage with baggage.
I’m amazed at the amount of resonance I have with this episode!
"The Miracle of Forgiveness", maybe a better name would have been "Its a Miracle if There is Forgiveness" As an exmo forgiveness seemed to be in short supply.
The attitude towards pornography would really create an impossible standard that will only cause disappointment when every married woman will feel let down if their husband is honest with them! They are setting the youth up to fail at marriage! It is so unfair.
Well said...love for who we are not who you want us to be
Carah is adorable ALL DAY LONG!! Great job.
Empathy for other people and seeing pharaseeacal (spell?) tendencies in the church is what broke my shelf, too. God literally led me out of the church - what I perceived as God anyway, and what I now call my gut/intuition. I saw how it destroyed both my mental health and the health of those around me. It wasn't spiritually uplifting anymore. I relate so much to your story. So much more I want to say. Thank you for sharing 💛💛
I'm an atheist progressive, but labeling a wife's/female partner's heartfelt objections to her guy's watching porn as being wrongheaded is unfair and biased.
Secular women often experience these same feelings of betrayal and infidelity when they learn about the man in their life viewing porn.
It's something that guys have a hard time understanding because sex is primarily physical for guys. But for females, sex is as much or more about emotion and emotional connection as a physical act.
Also, many females are unaware of the physiological reason guys experience sexual arousal and the need for physical sexual release: seminal fluid pressure buildup within the prostate gland.
Recently, I stopped at Temple Square as a tourist (the organ recital in the Tabernacle was awesome). I was simultaneously happy and sad for the 'sisters' roaming the grounds. Those kids are so in awe of the dogma I am envious of their faith. At the same time, as a 70 year old gay man, I couldn't help be feel sorry for them as they drown in their naivety. I can only wish them Godspeed in their spiritual journey.
First, thanks to McKay for telling his important story. But also, it was cute to see Carah and john in this role reversal, they both did a great job ❤
I’m married 34years my husband has been addicted to porn all of our marriage.
I don’t know what to do. It’s destroying me.
Y’all need a good marriage therapist. Email me @elainemcguicken3614. mormonstories@gmail.com
@@mormonstories we have been to a marriage therapist together and on one to one. My husband has been to lots of therapists on his own, nothing has helped to changed.
Please help
Wow the fact you came so close to suicide is terrible!!! Next my sons ex wife did the exact crap! Lucky for my wonderful now out open gay son we got to see his real happiness emerge!!! Good job for moving forward and I hope your so happy!!!!
gay means happy. I think you need the word Homosexual, not gay, to describe your son
@@gregoryglavinovich9259 I think whatever word Sophia's child uses to describe themselves is what she 'needs'. I'm gay/queer, and frankly, policing language on how one describes themselves is just as damaging and ignorant as pretending that it's a choice. Do better.
@@pansprayers it is easy = go see a dictionary = gay means happy. Gay does not mean Homosexual.
@@gregoryglavinovich9259 So, why do you enjoy demeaning and bullying others?
Porn at 0:50:34. It seems to be a big problem in the LDS church. Men and women of various ages seem to have problems with porn addiction.
No, it's bc they think watching porn 2 times is an addiction.
I want to reach through the screen and hug this guy. I am not mormon, but I am closely tied to a few and it gives me so much compassion for them and also explains alot and all of them seem so Internally conflicted- and thanks to mormon stories I get it
When I was a child, our next door neighbors (who were catholic) got divorced because the husband viewed porn.
I am so thankful that my parents were willing to be open about talking about it in our house. They talked about the absurdity of that in it of itself. But they also talked a lot about the fact that their church does not accept divorces. Because they got divorced, the wife was kicked out of the church, but the husband wasn’t.
I think it was conversations like that which made me aware of culty religions
Great bit. Love the healing and deconstruction that is happening brick by brick; story by story.
This is reminiscent of the Middle Eastern views on woman getting sexually assaulted...and being blamed, ostracized and murdered by their families. This issue should be taken up by student’s and faculty of BYU, and the LDS.
I sincerely appreciate McKay sharing his story. I agree there is an unreasonable expectation and conversation in the church regarding porn. A couple needs to be able to discuss porn and consent to porn boundaries because, as John mentioned, like every vice it’s something that can get out of control or corrupt a couple’s sex life. I wish the church would create an environment where couples feel comfortable discussing these things instead of immediately denigrating the user or encouraging the other spouse’s feelings of exclusion and insecurity. I’ve had two wildly different experiences of porn use in two relationships. One was extremely damaging, the other healthy and exciting. I could not have had the good sex relationship with my husband if we had not from the beginning openly discussed porn, responsible use and ways for it to bring us together. It’s all about communication which isn’t exclusively a church problem (my ex was a never Mormon) but the church helps create walls that make acceptance and communication impossible.
She was the ONLY woman at the disciplinary council…..let that sink in. No, PICTURE IT.
Fuck me, this is some story bro. Thank you sooooo so so much for speaking up ❤ I was made to read my journal out loud as the “leaders” sat on the opposite side of the room and decided what to do with me. The word “harlot” was used 🙄 😆 😬
As someone who never identified to a specific gender it was very difficult to accept the fact
I’d been a victim and I still struggle today to see myself as someone who was taken advantage of and I really feel the rage, the “how dare you”-ness. You are such a vibe for this Earth.
honestly what a traumatic way to lose ur wife
It would be interesting to hear her side. Based on what he said I feel she gave up way too fast. Was there other factors? I know the career path is not a “secure” one financially. I am a drummer myself in a band but it’s a hobby and we put music on iTunes but I have a day job. Sad all the way around. I need to listen to the first part about his mission. But with this, it’s curious to me how porn tore her world apart if you will but having sex before marriage was not as a “big deal”….just my thoughts. I’m sure she has a side so I won’t say she was horrible but I don’t agree with how things were handled if he truly did all hers and her family’s wishes (which why involve all the family?!)…just curious.
I want to hear her side too
Is there going to be online access for the conference or is it strictly in person?
I hope this man does well now! I feel like that could actually be damaging to a guy. Something I have just recently learned after being single over 10yrs when my sons mom shacked up with some ass who her best friend set her up with on a "girls night out" is its not good to always surpress the penis. This can lead to erection problems, wet dreams, increased risk of heart disease (which I have now) , and increased risk of prostate cancer. Also I have heard you can actually loose it entirely if you go too long with no masterbation or anything. I feel like we have a war against masculine men and the sex drive God gave us. This isnt fair and many of the women today dont want to be what got created them to be. A partner to man so he not be lonely, a helper in life, and to bear and raise the children. God help us! 🙏
I'm really surprised at so many comments saying sex, porn, and masturbation is bad. So fucking weird
I want u to commission me to draw john literally riding sidecar for merch lmao bc that is a mental image for my soul
So Jesus Christ couldnt go to BYU. So much for the lord's university
It’s not the lords university. It’s the brethrens. They put themselves and Joseph well above the god they are Supposed to be worshipping and representing.
@@KendraAndTheLaw 🤣😂
I like Mckay and his story! Thank you.
I like you and your comment 🥺 thanks for making it!
Very authentic and honest guy. Too bad his ex wife left a person with integrity for an illusion and a life based on fairy tale, she will realize that when she’s 50 or older
Or quite possibly, at 50, she will know she was absolutely right. Both are possibilities, and other possibilities also exist.
Remember that band from the 1990's called The Presidents of the United States of America? Instead of "I'm moving to the country, I'm gonna eat a lot of peaches" How about this? "I'm moving out of Utah, don't agree with what the Book of Mormon teaches"
Noo! I'm in Phoenix and the concert was yesterday 🥺 oh well, next time. I will be checking out your music!
1:25:30 I’ve described losing my faith in God like this. You sew the Gospel and belief in God into every part of yourself,l. When you lose your faith that thread doesn’t come out clean. It rips and tears as it pulls out. Losing faith in the church, but especially God is incredibly painful. The wounds take a long time to heal.
You put that very eloquently. Anyone can leave any church because it’s full of fallible people. But don’t give up on God! He loves you very much.
@@carolhale4331 I appreciate that, and I hope he really does. Why does he have to hide from us though? I sincerely am asking. I know the answers that most religions give. We need to be tested. It defeats the purpose of faith. But if it’s a test, it’s not a very fair one. As a teacher, I make sure my students know what is going to be on the test before I give it. There are so many versions of God out there, and so many “one true paths” that it’s almost impossible to know what is actually the right answers to the test. They all claim they are the right way, and they all say they know their religion or God is the right one because of how they feel. They can’t all be right.
Or if they are all right and it’s one God who doesn’t care what religion or God we believe in, what’s the point in faith? Why can’t he let us know he’s there? Why do we have to stumble through hoping we are on the right path but never knowing for sure? Right now, having a relationship with God is a one way street. We put in all the faith and hope that he’s actually there, and he sits up somewhere beyond and does his own thing. Maybe occasionally he helps someone find their keys when they pray for help. But he’s not ending war, or hunger, or suffering, or disease, cancer, the pandemic etc. he’ll also throw a random natural disaster at us because… ??? To test us? Again, for what purpose?
I promise, I want God to be real. I want a loving heavenly parent that knows me personally. That was the most devastating loss for me. But most Gods that people worship don’t seem to care very much about their children.
Do a study into the psychology of porn stars. A disturbing statistic of abuse.
I have also heard that women who sleep around have also been sexually abused?
@@TubeTreasure2 what a stupid ass comparison. There’s been woman that have been trafficked into it.
@@frutcakes6370 This was so long ago. I forget the point I was making or even if I was making a point. I would be glad to answer your question if you are asking me about my comparison. If you would just explain the point you are making about the video and may be then I can answer what I was trying to say. Help me understand what your point is in relationship to what I said.?
@@frutcakes6370 I remember now. I can see why you might say that. However I was just showing the link between females being sexually abused can effect them latter on in life in sleeping around. Just like the person saying porn stars have been sexually abused. I was just may be validating what the earlier message said. I find it fascinating myself. Any other questions please ask? Nevertheless, I appreciate what you are saying that women have been trafficked into porn. But there has also been women and men who have been sexually abused are now in the porn industry. I did not mean to upset you in any way. My apologies if I did. I was just validating what the earlier messenger was saying.
I checked out Suit Up, Soldier. I can see some real potential. I hope they get some deserved success.
Thank you!
K, this one ought to be an interesting one for sure. P*rn certainly is more than a Mormon approves/disapproves issue so very curious to see the take on this subject.
Thank you McKay for sharing your story! Great job Carah! I always appreciate your perspective (John’s as well).
CARAH: the first rule of broadcasting is: STOP using the word “LIKE” every two seconds. I can’t listen to a full episode when you are presenting.
Im halfway thru worrying now did he go see Jodi 😬
Side note: my phone autopopulates the word "traumatization" as the middle button after i type Jodi now.
Very good podcast, it’s called live about reality about love and about porn. McCay should write a book, he brought up some very good topics
Why do mormons have such epic names? McKay Spartacus is just a fantastic example of this phenomena.
I’m not trying to be insensitive or anything with this comment. But from the perspective of a woman I am questioning if your ex wife just wanted an excuse to leave and you and when you told her she finally had her out.
Think all cults are man made. Still belive in God in this crazy world. And think this young man has a very good heart.
I think all religions are man made too.
Such insight, John!!! ❤
I just wanna say, he has a fantastic laugh! And great hair, obviously. ;)
Thank you :)
The fact his ex wife just went behind his back and changing her Facebook and other things just shows how childish she was and how Mormonism is damaging to youth and getting married.
Please get True Ott on your program.. He wrote the book "Free at Last".. I just found out about it. Read it and now my heart is so broken💔💔. I feel like a fish out of water.... The LDS community NEED to know about this and we NEED to join together and GET this knowledge out.. We MUST save the children
John’s deep Mormon convictions come through often. I’ve been watching Mormon Stories for several years as part of my deep dive into cults.
Which cults do you find most fascinating? I’m currently researching Qanon and Sovereign Citizens.
@@Jupiter_Crash I have been deep diving into cults for several years, I can’t say I find any most fascinating. What fascinates me is what they have in common and what is different. An example is Mormons vs Jehovah’s Witnesses. Mormons want their people highly educated in a controlled environment so they can pay more tithing. JWs do not encourage education at all, claiming the world is nearing the end and they will need practical skills. I assume JWs want theirs dumb so they are easier to control and Mormons want the $$ ? I am really familiar with Scientology and I guess I’m fascinated by that group on many levels.
@@Jupiter_Crash I watched the documentary about Qanon and I was disgusted. The Watkins are the creepiest people. If you look at the history and how the old man made his $, that’s all you need to know about those freaks. I’m constantly amazed by conspiracy followers. I key in on how at some point these people are brainwashing themselves.
Sad how he ended up getting treated. You're a champ man!
McKay's wife surely related his porn use to consenting to premarital sex. So requiring McKay to jump through all those hoops was both projection of her own shame, and anger at him for being part of it. I think the guilt of the premarital sex doomed the marriage before it even started - and if it wasn't pornography use, she would have latched onto something else to distance herself from that internalized shame. But then again, had McKay waited, he may have been tracked onto a different lifestyle to please her and her family, and ended up finding a reason to leave her.
I ABSOLUTELY ADORE MCKAY
Such a sad story. Can almost guarantee his ex ended up with someone with the same issue.
McKay, youtube offered ExMoLex to me out of the blue, and I've never been Mormon and don't even have a cell phone. I think it's just that people in general enjoy her. Then youtube started offering me other things from the exMo community. So, maybe your phone is not listening to you. lol
@3:08 why would that look get him kicked out? He literally looks like their version of jesus lol
LITERALLY😂
Gay my self, but man someone needs to come out OMG!!
I agree. He's gay.
How ‘bout Suit Up Soldier at Thrive 2021!??
Too late BUT - the three of us are sooo down for Thrive 2022 😏
My little sister told me my mother wasn't 🙄 happy(?) When she 1st got married, she said "that's it?" I hope she didn't say this to my dad's face, but working up this big "tabu" thing until (for lack of a better word) climax & your partner pre-ejaculates 😵(?)