The church should not only excommunicate sexual predators, they should report incidents to the police as well as offer referrals to trained therapists that specialize in working with sexual abuse survivors.
@@unoffensiveusername1887 I would laugh, but the subject matter is so dark, that you can’t, you could laugh at what you said, because it’s true and it is so ironic they say they believe in Jesus yet don’t protect the vulnerable. I always say like Dante’s hell that has layers they will be at the bottom with the worst of the worst.
@@foxibot Humor or sarcasm makes it possible to put something out there while holding back the mountain of pain. I was always told that you are your own worst enemy in that you blame yourself for what has happened.
@@gbriank1 oh I totally get it! I use dark humor and sarcasm all the time, and I have had some people say WTH? But like you say it’s a deflection and I always say it’s better to laugh than cry and I laugh when really bad crap happens. I just don’t want to hear the people in the comment section not get it! And think I am being cold or offensive. That’s why I said I want to laugh but I was afraid people would think I was laughing at the act and what tragically happened when I am laughing at the hypocritical bitter irony because I totally laughed but didn’t want those people that may not get it, because I have very deep compassion and am tender hearted, but I suffer chronic debilitating pain and use humor as a coping method. So I totally understand what you are saying!
Mckay quoting ignorant people saying "You just want attention. Why didn't you say something sooner?" My grandma said those EXACT words to me after me admitting my Childhood SA with a family member. My heart broke into tiny pieces. Even our biggest fans and closest family members can have toxic, victim-blamey behavior. Thank you Mckay for speaking out for us all. You are too smart and handsome!
Good for them! It's creepy seeing the young boys walking around like sore thumbs sticking out in their white shirts and ties! Who knows what will happen to these young kids? It's crazy! Knocking on doors, going into people's homes is a crime waiting to happen! They have been running ads to call if you're troubled and two young people will come visit you! Really? No sane parent would pay to send their children into the sick world we live in!
By growing up in a multicultural/multi-faith environment. I’m an inactive convert, but I grew up in an area where few people were Mormon and even fewer of my friends were Mormon. Aside from warnings of not getting anyone pregnant, no one in my family, or even my friend groups really shamed or pressured me to be abstinent or sexually active. They just respected my choices and as I did theirs. I know it was specifically because of my experience in the church that I got used to the idea that I needed to have conversations with potential partners that, “hey I’m into you, but I’m not getting into you. If that’s a problem we can just be friends instead.” It taught me consent, in just different words. I was lucky enough to not have any issues with that growing up.
It’s not only Mormon children. Far too many Christian churches of all denominations fall into cultic territory with these same dangerous practices and beliefs. KNOWLEDGE is the beginning of wisdom. 🌱
@annamorris I agree, religious organizations are the root of many problems in society, certainly not just Mormons. This post, however, was about Mormons.
@@MB-tc7tw I wish more members had your experience growing up. Despite growing up in a similar multicultural/multi-faith environment, I still heard many sex negative messages in church regarding sexuality.
I feel so much anger about my mission. This is exactly what my comp did to me and I did get pissed. I told my mission pres almost everyday that I needed a transfer and all he said was "if you don't finish the transfer with her someone else will have to get hurt". Anytime I advocated for me I was told to repent and have some patience for a child of God that really struggled. After I was transferred I got depressed. The president asked what I had done to invite Satan into my life. I have no fucking idea how I got through my mission.
so sorry you went through that , i was taught and baptized lds got the lower priesthood then about 3 months later when i asked for my church member number , i was informed my baptism. and priesthood was invalid by then i was 3months of tithes i was told to go back and stay catholic so that bishop is a secret catholic the 2 lds missionaries when they found out both are married now both left the lds church .
@kayl - I’m so sad😢 to hear you were subjected to such pain/abuse, in so many ways, & by so many (supposedly Christian) people! You speaking up/out about your abuse here, is a testament to YOUR STRENGTH! Hopefully doing so, will assist you in your healing journey, & it will also help others who have been hurt! Sending you a hug & 💕! (from someone who knows that pain & cares about YOU!)
kayl6586 Hard to believe some of the responses you got from lds superiors. i am a Catholic, and over the years there were a couple of priests who came on to me. Then a Catholic Bishop came on to me. When i said no to him, he became extremely vindictive. And he was a total hypocrite. Totally dishonest. A big liar. Finally, he had to resign in disgrace.
@@brookspa94 you said it right supposedly Christian’s. Mormon will tell you their Christian but they are not Christian. They worship a different Jesus Jesus they worship they claim its brothers with Satan. They also think you can become gods of your own world. It’s a complete utter abomination. Has nothing to do with traditional Christianity. It’s a polytheistic religion and or cult. I feel bad for the Mormons because many of them are nice people and let’s say a person came to realize the truth. If they leave they’re gonna be shunned by all their family and friends which is just another example that shows you’re not Christian. if someone left a Baptist Church, they wouldn’t be shown by their friends and family.
Not Mormon but I can relate to your story. I told. I went on a mission trip when I was 18. A young man kissed me without my consent. When I told, I was blamed for it too and was punished Apparently, I was flirting with him so I was as much at fault. I never told my parents. I learned that telling just gets you blamed.
I found that the only way to leave a loveless marriage was to leave the Church also. I left 15 year friendships. I thank God that I had a loving non LDS family.
1:49:00 Don't you think that the temple experience itself actually grooms people to just accept inappropriate boundaries? Even more so in the 19th century when patrons were actually nude during washing and anointings. But even for myself in the 80's I had on just a flimsy poncho over my nude body and allowed some stranger to touch me. There were the 5 points of fellowship at the veil which was uncomfortably intimate. I believe the temple is an integral part of Mormon culture that grooms people to NOT stand up for themselves in inappropriate situations.
That’s one of the “checked boxes”that contributes to LDS wing a cult. New name, tithing to “get to the next level and learn the secrets”, confessions with Inappropriate, untrained bishops in a very unbalanced power relationship , not reading or seeking out “apostate “literature or media , not questioning church leaders, controlling your time with church obligations and out of church obligations , the checked boxes go on and on. Christianity started out as a “crazy cult “ too- leave your family if they don’t believe in me (Jesus) new names, giving up belongings, food and drink restrictions, secret symbols in the dirt to recognize other members, etc. Christianity, and any other cult never survives u less it absorbs local customs and becomes less radical, yet many evangelical and Christian offshoot groups, like LRD and JW’s CO$ and televangelists are still in the realm of the cult. Glad you’re out. I have so much respect and literal awe of people, particularly those born into cults, who come to the realization that it’s all a lie and leave the group, often completely cut off from all family and friends forever, in exchange for living in reality and using critical thinking skills to make choices for themselves. Absolute awe and respect for such brave and fearless people.
Hey just wanted to say I know a lot of the older people don’t like the swearing. But I love it. Makes me feel like I’m with close friends. And everyone is being authentic with no filter ❤️
Well...it gets me running for that bar of Felsnappa petroleum based soap my mom used on me a few times for my using WICKED LANGUAGE such as DARN'IT...and JEEZE....as she considered those words as swearing...using God's name in vain! NOW that I'm 70 w pottymouthed grandkids, I've learned to abbreviate the BAD words...like FTS....Phuck dat schitt!
@@marcusaurelius8142 I wondered the same thing. Maybe there is no Molestation among: Baptist’s, Protestants, 7th Day Adventist’s, the Jewish Faith, etc. Or, is there a class for ‘Molesting Your Mormon Companion in the Missionary Training Center (MTC)? Of course NOT! So, I don’t get it whatsoever! God Bless! I do understand the Emotional Agony!
@@marcusaurelius8142 so guys can do locker room talk and that's normal but women and children are involved it's low class... Hmm, HUGE double standard. 🤔
@@janiecepoush1904 I don’t think he or anyone is trying to blame the church for assault. The main components that they are speaking about is about chastity and purity. Its about the shame around human sexuality and how that contributes to shame, and poor mental health and especially now that makes when abuses occur, they end up suffering more. It’s not about blaming one religion for assault. It’s about how the general teachings on chastity have negatively impacted children, like the brave gentleman who spoke honestly in this episode.
I'm a survivor too sadly, it was a family member. I was then raped as a teen by someone I worked for. The church elders (not mormon) decided I was just attention seeking. I went on to marry a very manipulative and abusive man. I'm happily divorced now. Good on you for speaking out.
I appreciate McKay’s story SO MUCH!! ONE of the problems I have with the LDS is that their Bishops have NO formal training. No training in psychology or counseling that ALL seminaries require their students to take. This is a GREAT DISSERVICE to the congregations they serve!! Also, TALKING about sexuality is NEEDED desperately. Thank you McKay for explaining what consent is. Very, very important to understand!!
Liked this portion of your comment: "No training in psychology or counseling that all seminaries require.." Might I add: no proper theological study or credentials whatsoever, never published, ignorant of Torah, Kenak, and wait for it: New Testament Studies - the dirty little LDS secret: they haven't read the New Testament. Most missionaries, sent out with the words "Jesus Christ" in the name of the corporation, are unaware that Jesus was Jewish. Ask a missionary sometime their favorite chapter from the NT, & watch them just squirm. None of these Mormon "Bishops" have ever written a dissertation or earned any degree in theology - just been steeped in the bat-sh**-crazy BOM. Plus: I don't care what congregation you are serving or what denomination may be, or not: nothing there qualifies you to counsel survivors of sexual abuse -- from ANY source, much less the church itself. Sincerely - a Never-Mormon
Before anything was said on this program I talked to my adult grandson about these things. In general sometimes kids that have been protected have no idea what grooming is and it's very important to talk about it.
I worked as a child protection worker for my entire career. Hearing about how you were groomed and how you were victimized brought back intense memories and emotions working with abused children. The average person simply doesn’t understand how this can happen and how even a large person can be a victim. It breaks my heart. The church’s suppression of sexuality especially for members who are lgbtq2s+ who believe they are evil or damned and the ignorance of pedophilia or pretending it’s not happening then victimizing the victim. I’m glad you are working through this. It’ll be a life long journey. I volunteered with a wonderful agency here in Edmonton Alberta Canada called Little Warriors that also runs a great program call The Be Brave Ranch that is world renown for its work with children and adolescents who were sexually abused. There are very few dedicated programs. They have great on line resources that help adult victims as well and are working to fully develop an adult program. I’m happy you are trying hard working through this. ❤️❤️🇨🇦🇨🇦
My brother was 6’4 at age 12 but my mother said he would cry when the movies didn’t believe him so he could get in free, as a child 12 or under so she would have to bring his ID and birth certificate. I also met this 13 yr old kid in a movie set who looked like a grown man but was still a little boy, he was so sweet and followed me around, and I’m sure he lied about his age, when he called me on the phone to thank me for bringing him home because it wasn’t til late at night we finished doing our filming so he said he didn’t have a ride, then he gave me a heart attack saying he wanted to ask a question about sex, so I said I think your parents should answer your questions. It was so innocent, it wasn’t about sex at all. It was just a sweet innocent question. And I breathed a sigh of relief. lol
Thank you so much to McKay for sharing his story! I was also abused on my mission (emotionally in my case) and it’s the most isolating and lonely place to be. The whole mission experience is so ripe for abuse in my opinion and does so much damage to so many young people.
How crazy is that? Emotional abuse is something not discussed enough and the loneliness that is experience when you are a missionary is something only missionaries can understand. Strength to you
As a mother of a son this age, I am so grateful McKay has had counseling to process this and the bravery to bring this to light. It’s so hard for men to talk about these things and we need more of them to feel safe to do this and be seen , heard and valued! Rock on, McKay!
I am a survivor as well, my abuser was a missionary, I left the church as soon as i came back from my mission, Thank you for sharing your story and help some of us to feel we are not alone.
Okay, I even had to deal with the rule, "can't go on a date with the same girl twice in a row," only, I was the backup girl who was used and abused on the side because the guy I liked liked a different girl. So he'd date her, then come back to date me, and he would tell me he didn't want me, but would touch me, but if we were around people he would tell me to not stand close and can't hold hands, etc... it was so awful and harmful...
@@susancuenin2137 I'm so sorry, hun. I know how damaging and painful it was to know that and feel that, and no one deserves it. I hope you're able to heal and move on from such a disgusting, horrible experience
McKay seems like a really sweet guy who was failed by “the system”. I am glad he got himself the help he needs. May the Universe continue to bless him.
What an amazing smart, wise, empathetic young man. I’m so sorry that you went through such a heartbreaking experience of betrayal within your church. Unfortunately, there are sick twisted people in all walks of life. Happy to see that you are healing. Keep on keeping on! You’re terrific!!
This interview is awesome. I feel like McKay describes so well how it is to be groomed and have no words or avenues to describe what is going on and to stop it. I feel disgusted that he was put in a position that offered so few alternatives. He didn't even have a phone!!!!!
I’m also a sexual abuse survivor, so first I’d love to say thank you for speaking out about this. This has been so validating to listen to. I’m the only one out of 9 immediate family members that has left the church. I’m 26 now and have been gone since I was kicked out at 18. But anyway I just wanted to say that I think he got his strength, in a way, from the church itself. “The most righteous will leave.” It’s because of how good of a member you were lol, you’re able to keep those values for truth close to your heart. We were always taught to speak up for truth even if people don’t respect our beliefs. I think it’s awesome he was able to still be that way even without the church! Keep speaking up & rock on! 👊🏻✨
Narcissist predator. I don't even think it's fair to put the older "elder" in the category of suppressed. He knew how to play someone to get want he wanted through belittling and gaslighting. Such horrid abuse. I so sorry your younger self blamed you.
I know this may seem off topic, but I want to thank you, McKay, for helping me better understand why my high school boyfriend (a Mormon boy) dumped me so suddenly after telling me he loved me and we were going to be together forever... he was my first love and I was so crushed that I stopped eating and sleeping for months. But now knowing about his culture and his parents and bishop, I understand a little better. I didn't know he wasn't allowed to steady date, I just figured he was a cheating bastard who didn't give a crap about me (possibly also still true).
I have a friend (or know of a girl) that went to BYU long ago and she TOLD the people in charge that she was raped and they accused her instead of listening to her and confronting the guy. Yep, they accused her. Her life went downhill after that. I mean, she got a degree elsewhere, and works and make triple digits but she has never forgotten what was stolen from her, what she did not give (consensually) and it affects her daily life now. I can just say, drugs, sex and rock and roll - after leaving the church after that happened - happened. And the guy is the reason. He took what was not his to take, just like this guy. Screw em. Screw em all.
BYU has a bad habit of blaming the victim. They tried to force me to say being assaulted was consensual. I wound up suicidal because of how campus police were treating me. Then I was kicked out of BYU for attempting suicide because MY actions were supposedly “having a negative impact on student life on campus”.
One of my best friends grew up hardcore LDS. He left the church when they demonized his best friend (also mormon) regarding his sexuality. His best friend was a closet homosexual and the shame of the church drove him to suicidal ideation. My bestie was so disgusted with the LDS community he left. Not long after my bestie became wildly sexually active and tried a buffet of drugs. Even with the alcohol and drugs he graduated dental school and he is now a specialist. I am so proud of him, but I totally understand the forbidden fruit side effect. After he left the LDS community he went off the deep end, but thank GOD he never drowned. I am so glad he is one of my best bros and he is very successful and free living his best life. 🙌🏾🙏🏿🌻 I forgot to mention he was pressured into marrying in his early 20s, but it only lasted 1 year. Typical cookie cutter mormon🙄
I felt like I was indirectly shamed for being abused as a child. I was in foster care with a Mormon family when I was 12-14. I never opened up about it to anyone. But when I was being converted everything that was being taught to me made me feel so ashamed and made me feel like I wouldn’t ever be pure enough unless I was baptized. I internalized all of this and ultimately felt like I needed to do this to be accepted by these people and this family. I never knew I was pretty much being brainwashed into thinking that it would save me and make me new. After I was baptized it was nothing like they said it would be. I never felt like I was washed clean of anything. And I still carried the shame of abuse that wasn’t my fault. I’m glad I never told anyone about it at that age. Because I saved myself from the vulnerability of having to talk to the bishop about something so sensitive that could have potentially made the experience worse for me. I still think about this a lot from time to time. I wish I never did it.
Telling unsafe people doesn't help you survive. Your instincts warn you to wait for safety and compassion. Confessing to righteous disapproval is another form of abuse in itself.
McKay my friend I’m so PROUD of you!!! Thank you for sharing your story and helping educate people on sexual assault. I look up to you even more than before! You’re amazing!!
😂😂😂 If you believe that this guy, as big as he is and a former wrestler, was overpowered by a small South American I have a beige to sell you. It's true that there is a sucker born every minute!
McKay is such a brave man to share his story He is the same age as my daughters and am so glad they did not go on a mission and that we’re out now. Good luck McKay with your music Sending you my love 🇨🇦
I had a very similar experience on my mission in Belem Brasil back in 2003-2005. My second companion was emotionally, verbally, and mentally abusive towards me. It was the most miserable time of my mission. He even went as far to ask me for full body massages which I did because a) I wanted to be a better companion and b) he had such a short fuse that I wanted to avoid his wrath. I'm pretty sure he was also in the closet because he had pictures of all his white blonde haired missionary companions on his desk. He'd tell me I'd never be as good of a missionary or missionary companion as those previous missionaries. It got to the point where I finally told my mission president and his response was "we all have our crosses to bear". The only thing I left out of that conversation was the repeated requests for full body massages. I was also in the closet at that time, desperately wanting to change my sexuality and had hopes that serving a mission would do it. And I feared if I came forward with that information that I would somehow out myself in the process and be implicated in the entire thing. I don't think anything came of that conversation because my companion was allowed to serve out the rest of his mission after transfers.
Thank you Mckay, your vulnerability and openness really healed some of my religious and sexual traumas. There is something about being victim of emotional manipulation that you won't understand unless you've went through it. I wish one day I would be able to share my story, but I always feel like I don't have the right words, no body would be interested in hearing, or that it wouldn't help others and its just a selfish thing.. anyway this is a good episode
So often when talking to survivors of SA, people will say "why didn't you do anything?" Freezing is a normal response to the horror. I've experienced it, and so many others have as well. Trying to forget and put it behind you, or rejecting the idea that it was SA is normal. It's a trauma that takes time to come to terms with. It's hard but as victims we have to remind ourselves that it's not our fault. We did nothing wrong. I hope McKay continues to heal and succeed in living a wonderful life.
I wanna meet the 15 year old kid brave enough to stand up in front of everyone and say "Meh, I got nothing". He may not have felt safe to speak up back then but he clearly feels safe enough now and thank goodness for that.
Carah Burrell, you are so articulate. You pick up on what your guests are saying and you add thoughts and insight that are so powerful. Listening to you is such a helpful catalyst for people trapped in Mormon indoctrination. You are awesome.
Cara did a great job. I am so impressed with McKay for being able to share such a personal and painful story. He told it in such a way that will really help other men who thought they were the lone ranger. It takes a special person to be able to publicly share this kind of pain.
I loved listening to this. I myself am lds and still am. But these kinds of things NEED to be talked about. The Mormon culture is really bad and people need to change. No one should be shamed for not wanting to serve a mission. Sex NEEDS to be talked about openly and shouldn’t be “taboo” thing. Like what, we never talk about sex at all. Get married, then are expected to be cool with sex? And there’s so many stories like yours about missionaries. Stories in my mission and many others. I’m super sorry that these things happened to you. Members of the church need to be open about these things and not hide them.
McKay you are so strong speaking up it’s not an easy thing to talk about and I think it’s more difficult for men who are presumed to be stronger and not easily victimized but the reality is anyone can be violated 😥 gender has nothing to do with it 😧
My friend started having muscle spasms and stuff on her mission from anxiety and ended up going home. And she tried to go back out way too soon after and came home again. She felt so much shame and I felt so bad for her 😓
I literally had al.ost the exact same thing happen to me. My mission companion (2nd transfer in Pringles, Argentina) did all of the same things as his companion. To this day I can't stand people walking behind me up stairs because he's grab my ass and shit. Eventually I beat him up in the street as he tried his crap. I almost went home. Man what a crazy place. It's weird how many similar experiences I'm hearing about. I thought I was alone in this stuff
My mom said in her patriarchal blessing they told her that her children would see the second coming and be twinkled lol. It’s been so long I forgot they literally think any day now the world’s gonna end. Wild to live like that. Edit: I wasn’t allowed to go get food after my junior prom with my friends because “technically” it was Sunday at midnight that night. I lived in California and had a super orthodox Mormon mother and step-dad. It was awful.
I'm speechless...thank you McKay for shining light on predator techniques and the damaging psychological conditioning, along with the physical isolation, that allowed such abuse. Such isolation is in itself very abusive. I'm amazed at the person you have become and sharing your story is very helpful for others.
There’s freezing and there is fawning during trauma. When your isolated and don’t see how to get out of the situation, then the safest thing to do seems to be to appease, do what is needed to keep the perpetrator feeling calm going that in doing so will end the assault. It’s another way to survive. It seems to me that in missionary situations that has got to be one of the common ways to cope with something like that - fawn or freeze or both.
Mormonism has many dark places…this poor man found himself in one of them. Kudos for his bravery in telling his story. Hopefully the corporation will one day validate those who have suffered, instead of covering up abusive practices….🤫
This is such a heartbreaking story of innocence crushed. The good news is how resilient this young man is and how he finally prevails and stays true to himself in the process (see part 2).
Maybe that’s why the LDS church teaches that anger is of the devil (so predators can get away with what they do). I now know that feelings of anger are our warning system of 🚩 red flags, that our boundaries are being violated. 1:50:00 I learned that in spouse abuse survivor classes.
❤loved this interview 🥲😪 I am a mom of 8 and have sons your same age. I am so sorry for what you went through.😥. Thank you for sharing your story. It will help. Thank you. I totally resinate with all of your story. Even your knowledge about what you knew at 4 yrs old.
Sorry that this happened to you. I wish that the church leaders could understand that it hurts the image of the church to hide evil than to confront evil of men. Joining the church as an adult was such a monumental and life changing event that I believe has helped me to grow as a person. I'm so heartbroken that I joined a lie. I feel kind of lost..
I had a gay companion (greenie) on my mission. He was fighting his urges and he hit on me. I told him he was on a mission to either 1. work, or 2. go home. To put his sexual orientation on hold. He did for awhile. I didn't say anything to my mission leaders or the President. After I got transferred, he jumped his next companion, who almost knocked him out. (The ironic thing is that that Elder came out after his mission) The greenie got excommunicated and sent home. I was sent to the "hell hole" of the mission because I had not reported him. I said that I did not know it was my responsibility to do that. I went through 6 months of pure hell. He ended up being sent home. He was rebaptized and he got married and fathered 3 kids. Then later on I was "rewarded" as being called to be an Assistant and got to sit in on at least 20 tribunals to send Elders and Sisters home. 9 of them were sent home for being gay. The Sisters for dating. Very sad.
What a joke! And the members think that mission is actually serving God. There is actually nothing of real service rendered in the mission, just statistics and trying to convert other Christians to Mormonism which doesn't add anything valuable to their lives, not to mention that more than half of converts become inactive within a year or two.
I think making a child choose to be baptizedat8is way too young especially when the church expects them to be in the church forever you don’t understand the commitment at 8 years old 🤦🏼♀️
Thank you McKay, for sharing your personal story here. I think it’s important that you shared some of the process of what led up the awful way you were abused. Wherever it is that your strength came from to do this interview, I’m so grateful for it! You gave great insight to how any abuse can easily happen to LDS missionaries. I sincerely hope that things change so this church’s leaders begin to keep the people in their care safer than this…it was horrific to think about what you experienced, and I am so, so sorry about all of it.
My brother has a family member who is gay and he crawled into bed with his mission companion who was a football player. The guy woke and literally put him in the ICU. Football player finished up his mission, and other guy was sent home and excommunicated by his Stake President (his own Dad).
I’m now 53, had a stroke 6 years ago and I’m still evolving and to an extent figure out who I am, the stroke changed so much about my life and my views🤷🏼♀️
Agreed, they're definitely attracted to the act of controlling someone. And if you're viewing someone as so worthless that your actions are somehow justified in controlling someone sexually, you certainly don't have any positive feelings for that individual. It's hideous truly. Completely malicious. There's nothing wrong with hating your abuser like so many try to preach.
Nevermo Christian here - Kudos to Carah for her beautiful smile and superb listening skills! John D, you are mentoring Carah in a great way! What a wonderful Part 1 interview with McKay (who could have his pick of any girl on the planet!) as he sincerely shared the good, the bad and the ugly of his LDS Mission in Brazil. Evil lurks in all areas of life, and I feel sad McKay was abused when he was out to evangelize and do the Lord’s work. it is awesome OKAY to call out someone if they are an evil, dominating individual who perpetrated a direct sin against another, and setting them straight isn’t considered anti-Christian. Wishing McKay all the best in his music career and life in general as an all around good guy!!!
I just learned about secret combinations from this other ex Mormon that covers true crime to do with Mormons. So it’s great that she told us what that is. This is crazy hearing they would tie up their mission companion. I remember this ex boyfriends brother was told that this Spanish guy was wealthy and then when he came to see the guy as like foreign exchange student, he tried to hold him captive. I couldn’t believe my ex boy friend laughed about it and the guy did not have a wealthy family! He was just saying that to get the family to trust him! He finally was freed. My ex boyfriends family was very well off and the daddy was a prominent lawyer. They were half German and Spanish. To me that sounded terrifying and by the way I have heard horror stories about foreign exchange students, one girl went to another Spanish family that was wealthy and the brother in the family raped her. I always heard that Mormons were way too trusting and naive and in danger going to foreign countries and all kinds of stuff happens that puts them in danger.
If you googled me with the word “cult”, you would learn my story from the outside looking in, but I assure you that there’s still so much more that has to be processed in layers as I work my way through the emotional trauma of being spiritually and psychologically abused. Being a survivor is also a journey and not the destination people may think it is. You can move farther and farther away from being a victim but without the necessary therapy it’s not truly surviving. I’m here to encourage anyone who has suffered ANY FORM of abuse to find an understanding and knowledgeable therapist who is willing to stick with you for the long haul. Where there is conflict, there is growth. You have the stuff of a warrior already within you!
I got called as an AP and immediately missionaries I'd never heard of resented and hated me. I was so happy to be released from that position amd get back to normal missionary stresses.
I never understood that. I always treated my AP's with respect as it was given to me and all my APs were very kind and we got along great. Individuals who struggle with authority will automatically assign judgement to anyone above them regardless.
Wow! Thank you for sharing your story. It isn’t often that you are able to hear someone share and name what was happening to you. THIS takes incredible courage and I have mad respect for all of you. Thank you for your dedication to this work and creating a platform to help us understand how to do things with better quality.
I'm amazed watching you talk about your story because I still can't say anything about my childhood sexual abuse to a therapist alone in a room after years of trying. I have to write it down ahead of time and get up the courage to show it to them.
Stories like this make me glad im no longer part of this church. I really hate how forgiveness is taught and how people who have acts of evil done to them are treated poorly too often.
My heart goes out to McKay. I was sexually assaulted during a sports physical my sophomore year of college. Everything he & Delhin said about a state of shock post-assault is so so true.
When he was explaining his patriarchal blessing I was just imagining how absolutely dope it would have been if he would have said something like “I bless you that you will melt the faces off of the saints in Zion with your hard rock music and drumming.”
Sexual assault throws victims into a lifetime of shock. Sometimes they’re able to get a good therapist and can work together to have some healing. Shock. Exhaustion. Depression. So much fallout. Victims live in a world that no longer makes any sense. “I feel like I’m taking crazy pills!”
Temple chanting in the prayer circle reminded me of the young men’s training in Islam. Expected. Practiced for hours daily. Also the Buddhist, “namyoho renge kio.” Repeated in meditation, smoothly, seamlessly.
My brother (who is still LDS and temple married with children)-was seminary president as a youth and, went on a foreign mission, where he was given leadership roles over his missionary peers. As he returned home, our father found his former companion phone book laid open with the word (in all caps) RAPE as one of the numbers. My father inquired if he had been harmed. But come to find out, he had groomed, assaulted, and full on raped his missionary companions. No one ever said a thing. He "apologized" to his bishopric, who required some light discipline, and was married in the temple within the year.
Between the churches, the boy scouts and the sports coaches our children are not safe! We absolutely have to teach children in a straightforward way about predators and how to say no to them and fight them off.
McKay Johnson, your missionary trainer was GASLIGHTING (aka GROOMING) you with all this abuse! It's heartbreaking to know you were put through this terrible treatment, and I'm glad you have had this opportunity to openly speak about it.
On the same note as (having an erection does NOT mean you wanted it 😭) women also "get wet" when being raped doesn't mean she "wanted it. On law & order the lady cop explained this as when you cut an onion are you crying? Tear ducts are working but not crying .
Spartacus mentioned an article of Catholic priest abuse in France. I guess he knows about the abuse here and in Ireland. (Everywhere). Here’s 2 movie recommendations: Spotlight and Calvary.
You would think the church would do more to prohibit this type of situation from occurring? Why in Gods name are they leaving teens alone in a apartment together sharing a bedroom? There should be a min of 3-4 in a housing situation ideally with a responsible adult in tow
I don't know if the mission president would've done something if he told him. I've seen in other religious circles that an act of assault is treated like consensual sex.
Wake up wr are all god and your the only thing live in the illusion. Ver6 real illusion. Without the directors of life be in void. Thhis why we need to thinl love others no t love as couple.
I work across from the temple, church offices and kirkton | Mckonkie is right next door. So eerie to walk past it every day, the more I look at it the more creepy it all feels. Especially with the capitol building just above on the hill.
I believe you and no one can judge or ridicule anyone that has been through SA by any means may God have mercy on all these predators because I sure in the f... don't!!💔😢
I like the sexual assault title, man i praise your endurance, and Exmo lex coming to the rescue, she awesome person, i have her on my subscribetion, like to have macays too.i myself went through hell, years and years of depression, so sorry too. John dehlin, wish i can meet him someday.he saved my life. Im free now thanks to john, he is the real prophet . I listened through all of his podcast, even if its 4 hrs. Never boring. Thank u again i also learn more and more.and carrah😁😁😁🙏👍
The church should not only excommunicate sexual predators, they should report incidents to the police as well as offer referrals to trained therapists that specialize in working with sexual abuse survivors.
That would be a sane and healthy move, which would lead to sane and healthy people. Can't have that.
@@unoffensiveusername1887 I would laugh, but the subject matter is so dark, that you can’t, you could laugh at what you said, because it’s true and it is so ironic they say they believe in Jesus yet don’t protect the vulnerable. I always say like Dante’s hell that has layers they will be at the bottom with the worst of the worst.
@@foxibot Humor or sarcasm makes it possible to put something out there while holding back the mountain of pain. I was always told that you are your own worst enemy in that you blame yourself for what has happened.
@@gbriank1 oh I totally get it! I use dark humor and sarcasm all the time, and I have had some people say WTH? But like you say it’s a deflection and I always say it’s better to laugh than cry and I laugh when really bad crap happens. I just don’t want to hear the people in the comment section not get it! And think I am being cold or offensive. That’s why I said I want to laugh but I was afraid people would think I was laughing at the act and what tragically happened when I am laughing at the hypocritical bitter irony because I totally laughed but didn’t want those people that may not get it, because I have very deep compassion and am tender hearted, but I suffer chronic debilitating pain and use humor as a coping method. So I totally understand what you are saying!
Agreed! So obvious, right?
Mckay quoting ignorant people saying "You just want attention. Why didn't you say something sooner?" My grandma said those EXACT words to me after me admitting my Childhood SA with a family member. My heart broke into tiny pieces. Even our biggest fans and closest family members can have toxic, victim-blamey behavior. Thank you Mckay for speaking out for us all. You are too smart and handsome!
Thank you so much 🥺🥰
I'm so sorry that happened to you.
Cl 😊p pool pop playing op pool😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊o😊
Very similar with me and my mom's reaction. Our relationship has never been the same...and my heart is still beoken...
@@brigittekarnakowski2717 not the place for childish nonsense, shame on you
My 3 sons never wanted to serve a mission so they were already looked down upon. Should’ve walked away then 🤦🏻♀️
walk away now
@@steelrain52 oh I did! 😁
Good for them! It's creepy seeing the young boys walking around like sore thumbs sticking out in their white shirts and ties! Who knows what will happen to these young kids? It's crazy! Knocking on doors, going into people's homes is a crime waiting to happen! They have been running ads to call if you're troubled and two young people will come visit you! Really? No sane parent would pay to send their children into the sick world we live in!
How does any Mormon child grow up with a healthy view of sexuality? This is crazy stuff.
By growing up in a multicultural/multi-faith environment. I’m an inactive convert, but I grew up in an area where few people were Mormon and even fewer of my friends were Mormon. Aside from warnings of not getting anyone pregnant, no one in my family, or even my friend groups really shamed or pressured me to be abstinent or sexually active. They just respected my choices and as I did theirs. I know it was specifically because of my experience in the church that I got used to the idea that I needed to have conversations with potential partners that, “hey I’m into you, but I’m not getting into you. If that’s a problem we can just be friends instead.” It taught me consent, in just different words. I was lucky enough to not have any issues with that growing up.
It’s not only Mormon children.
Far too many Christian churches of all denominations fall into cultic territory with these same dangerous practices and beliefs. KNOWLEDGE is the beginning of wisdom. 🌱
@annamorris I agree, religious organizations are the root of many problems in society, certainly not just Mormons. This post, however, was about Mormons.
@@MB-tc7tw I wish more members had your experience growing up. Despite growing up in a similar multicultural/multi-faith environment, I still heard many sex negative messages in church regarding sexuality.
I grew up mormon and all the sheltering caused mental dysfunction in many aspects.
I feel so much anger about my mission. This is exactly what my comp did to me and I did get pissed. I told my mission pres almost everyday that I needed a transfer and all he said was "if you don't finish the transfer with her someone else will have to get hurt". Anytime I advocated for me I was told to repent and have some patience for a child of God that really struggled. After I was transferred I got depressed. The president asked what I had done to invite Satan into my life. I have no fucking idea how I got through my mission.
so sorry you went through that , i was taught and baptized lds got the lower priesthood then about 3 months later when i asked for my church member number , i was informed my baptism. and priesthood was invalid by then i was 3months of tithes i was told to go back and stay catholic so that bishop is a secret catholic the 2 lds missionaries when they found out both are married now both left the lds church .
@kayl - I’m so sad😢 to hear you were subjected to such pain/abuse, in so many ways, & by so many (supposedly Christian) people! You speaking up/out about your abuse here, is a testament to YOUR STRENGTH! Hopefully doing so, will assist you in your healing journey, & it will also help others who have been hurt! Sending you a hug & 💕! (from someone who knows that pain & cares about YOU!)
kayl6586 Hard to believe some of the responses you got from lds superiors. i am a Catholic, and over the years there were a couple of priests who came on to me. Then a Catholic Bishop came on to me. When i said no to him, he became extremely vindictive. And he was a total hypocrite. Totally dishonest. A big liar. Finally, he had to resign in disgrace.
@@Jeffrey13578I’m trying to understand. Exactly how was your baptism and priesthood invalid?? What happened that you were told that?
@@brookspa94 you said it right supposedly Christian’s. Mormon will tell you their Christian but they are not Christian. They worship a different Jesus Jesus they worship they claim its brothers with Satan. They also think you can become gods of your own world. It’s a complete utter abomination. Has nothing to do with traditional Christianity. It’s a polytheistic religion and or cult. I feel bad for the Mormons because many of them are nice people and let’s say a person came to realize the truth. If they leave they’re gonna be shunned by all their family and friends which is just another example that shows you’re not Christian. if someone left a Baptist Church, they wouldn’t be shown by their friends and family.
Not Mormon but I can relate to your story. I told. I went on a mission trip when I was 18. A young man kissed me without my consent. When I told, I was blamed for it too and was punished Apparently, I was flirting with him so I was as much at fault. I never told my parents. I learned that telling just gets you blamed.
I found that the only way to leave a loveless marriage was to leave the Church also. I left 15 year friendships. I thank God that I had a loving non LDS family.
1:49:00 Don't you think that the temple experience itself actually grooms people to just accept inappropriate boundaries? Even more so in the 19th century when patrons were actually nude during washing and anointings. But even for myself in the 80's I had on just a flimsy poncho over my nude body and allowed some stranger to touch me. There were the 5 points of fellowship at the veil which was uncomfortably intimate. I believe the temple is an integral part of Mormon culture that grooms people to NOT stand up for themselves in inappropriate situations.
Yes. There is no informed consent in the temple experience (for the living or the dead...)
Fantastic insight that I hadn’t even thought of myself, Dennis and it’s so true!
This. My spouse told me about his experience in the 90s with this and I was astounded that there is sexual assault framed as a holy event
Wow… that’s eye opening. Totally true though when you look back on it even from your earliest memories of attending
That’s one of the “checked boxes”that contributes to LDS wing a cult. New name, tithing to “get to the next level and learn the secrets”, confessions with Inappropriate, untrained bishops in a very unbalanced power relationship , not reading or seeking out “apostate “literature or media , not questioning church leaders, controlling your time with church obligations and out of church obligations , the checked boxes go on and on. Christianity started out as a “crazy cult “ too- leave your family if they don’t believe in me (Jesus) new names, giving up belongings, food and drink restrictions, secret symbols in the dirt to recognize other members, etc. Christianity, and any other cult never survives u less it absorbs local customs and becomes less radical, yet many evangelical and Christian offshoot groups, like LRD and JW’s CO$ and televangelists are still in the realm of the cult. Glad you’re out. I have so much respect and literal awe of people, particularly those born into cults, who come to the realization that it’s all a lie and leave the group, often completely cut off from all family and friends forever, in exchange for living in reality and using critical thinking skills to make choices for themselves. Absolute awe and respect for such brave and fearless people.
Hey just wanted to say I know a lot of the older people don’t like the swearing. But I love it. Makes me feel like I’m with close friends. And everyone is being authentic with no filter ❤️
Well...it gets me running for that bar of Felsnappa petroleum based soap my mom used on me a few times for my using WICKED LANGUAGE such as DARN'IT...and JEEZE....as she considered those words as swearing...using God's name in vain!
NOW that I'm 70 w pottymouthed grandkids, I've learned to abbreviate the BAD words...like FTS....Phuck dat schitt!
@@marcusaurelius8142 I wondered the same thing. Maybe there is no Molestation among: Baptist’s, Protestants, 7th Day Adventist’s, the Jewish Faith, etc.
Or, is there a class for ‘Molesting Your Mormon Companion in the Missionary Training Center (MTC)? Of course NOT! So, I don’t get it whatsoever! God Bless! I do understand the Emotional Agony!
@@marcusaurelius8142 so guys can do locker room talk and that's normal but women and children are involved it's low class...
Hmm, HUGE double standard. 🤔
@@janiecepoush1904 I don’t think he or anyone is trying to blame the church for assault. The main components that they are speaking about is about chastity and purity. Its about the shame around human sexuality and how that contributes to shame, and poor mental health and especially now that makes when abuses occur, they end up suffering more. It’s not about blaming one religion for assault. It’s about how the general teachings on chastity have negatively impacted children, like the brave gentleman who spoke honestly in this episode.
I'm a survivor too sadly, it was a family member. I was then raped as a teen by someone I worked for. The church elders (not mormon) decided I was just attention seeking. I went on to marry a very manipulative and abusive man. I'm happily divorced now. Good on you for speaking out.
I am so glad you are free and living a good life ❤
I appreciate McKay’s story SO MUCH!! ONE of the problems I have with the LDS is that their Bishops have NO formal training. No training in psychology or counseling that ALL seminaries require their students to take. This is a GREAT DISSERVICE to the congregations they serve!! Also, TALKING about sexuality is NEEDED desperately. Thank you McKay for explaining what consent is. Very, very important to understand!!
Liked this portion of your comment: "No training in psychology or counseling that all seminaries require.." Might I add: no proper theological study or credentials whatsoever, never published, ignorant of Torah, Kenak, and wait for it: New Testament Studies - the dirty little LDS secret: they haven't read the New Testament. Most missionaries, sent out with the words "Jesus Christ" in the name of the corporation, are unaware that Jesus was Jewish. Ask a missionary sometime their favorite chapter from the NT, & watch them just squirm. None of these Mormon "Bishops" have ever written a dissertation or earned any degree in theology - just been steeped in the bat-sh**-crazy BOM. Plus: I don't care what congregation you are serving or what denomination may be, or not: nothing there qualifies you to counsel survivors of sexual abuse -- from ANY source, much less the church itself. Sincerely - a Never-Mormon
Before anything was said on this program I talked to my adult grandson about these things. In general sometimes kids that have been protected have no idea what grooming is and it's very important to talk about it.
I worked as a child protection worker for my entire career. Hearing about how you were groomed and how you were victimized brought back intense memories and emotions working with abused children. The average person simply doesn’t understand how this can happen and how even a large person can be a victim. It breaks my heart. The church’s suppression of sexuality especially for members who are lgbtq2s+ who believe they are evil or damned and the ignorance of pedophilia or pretending it’s not happening then victimizing the victim. I’m glad you are working through this. It’ll be a life long journey. I volunteered with a wonderful agency here in Edmonton Alberta Canada called Little Warriors that also runs a great program call The Be Brave Ranch that is world renown for its work with children and adolescents who were sexually abused. There are very few dedicated programs. They have great on line resources that help adult victims as well and are working to fully develop an adult program. I’m happy you are trying hard working through this. ❤️❤️🇨🇦🇨🇦
My brother was 6’4 at age 12 but my mother said he would cry when the movies didn’t believe him so he could get in free, as a child 12 or under so she would have to bring his ID and birth certificate. I also met this 13 yr old kid in a movie set who looked like a grown man but was still a little boy, he was so sweet and followed me around, and I’m sure he lied about his age, when he called me on the phone to thank me for bringing him home because it wasn’t til late at night we finished doing our filming so he said he didn’t have a ride, then he gave me a heart attack saying he wanted to ask a question about sex, so I said I think your parents should answer your questions. It was so innocent, it wasn’t about sex at all. It was just a sweet innocent question. And I breathed a sigh of relief. lol
Thank you so much to McKay for sharing his story! I was also abused on my mission (emotionally in my case) and it’s the most isolating and lonely place to be. The whole mission experience is so ripe for abuse in my opinion and does so much damage to so many young people.
Hugs. I’m so sorry- my daughters also were abused on their missions.
How crazy is that? Emotional abuse is something not discussed enough and the loneliness that is experience when you are a missionary is something only missionaries can understand. Strength to you
As a mother of a son this age, I am so grateful McKay has had counseling to process this and the bravery to bring this to light. It’s so hard for men to talk about these things and we need more of them to feel safe to do this and be seen , heard and valued! Rock on, McKay!
I am a survivor as well, my abuser was a missionary, I left the church as soon as i came back from my mission, Thank you for sharing your story and help some of us to feel we are not alone.
Okay, I even had to deal with the rule, "can't go on a date with the same girl twice in a row," only, I was the backup girl who was used and abused on the side because the guy I liked liked a different girl. So he'd date her, then come back to date me, and he would tell me he didn't want me, but would touch me, but if we were around people he would tell me to not stand close and can't hold hands, etc... it was so awful and harmful...
Same thing happened to me in high school with a Mormon boy! It makes sense now.
@@susancuenin2137 I'm so sorry, hun. I know how damaging and painful it was to know that and feel that, and no one deserves it. I hope you're able to heal and move on from such a disgusting, horrible experience
What a beautiful man! I’m not talking about his looks, even though he is handsome. Thank you❣️🥰
ABSOLUTELY🙏
Thank you, you’re so kind 🥺🥰
His humility and manners too make him beautiful.
McKay seems like a really sweet guy who was failed by “the system”. I am glad he got himself the help he needs. May the Universe continue to bless him.
What an amazing smart, wise, empathetic young man. I’m so sorry that you went through such a heartbreaking experience of betrayal within your church. Unfortunately, there are sick twisted people in all walks of life. Happy to see that you are healing. Keep on keeping on! You’re terrific!!
“Anything other than an enthusiastic YES, is not consent!” ~ POWERFUL WORDS! 💖💖
This interview is awesome. I feel like McKay describes so well how it is to be groomed and have no words or avenues to describe what is going on and to stop it. I feel disgusted that he was put in a position that offered so few alternatives. He didn't even have a phone!!!!!
I’m also a sexual abuse survivor, so first I’d love to say thank you for speaking out about this. This has been so validating to listen to. I’m the only one out of 9 immediate family members that has left the church. I’m 26 now and have been gone since I was kicked out at 18. But anyway I just wanted to say that I think he got his strength, in a way, from the church itself. “The most righteous will leave.” It’s because of how good of a member you were lol, you’re able to keep those values for truth close to your heart. We were always taught to speak up for truth even if people don’t respect our beliefs. I think it’s awesome he was able to still be that way even without the church! Keep speaking up & rock on! 👊🏻✨
Thank you for this incredibly insightful and validating comment! Hugs and healing to you! ❤️
No I fully support your statement of not paying your tithing until they make definite changes because money is the only thing they listen to
Narcissist predator. I don't even think it's fair to put the older "elder" in the category of suppressed. He knew how to play someone to get want he wanted through belittling and gaslighting. Such horrid abuse. I so sorry your younger self blamed you.
I know this may seem off topic, but I want to thank you, McKay, for helping me better understand why my high school boyfriend (a Mormon boy) dumped me so suddenly after telling me he loved me and we were going to be together forever... he was my first love and I was so crushed that I stopped eating and sleeping for months. But now knowing about his culture and his parents and bishop, I understand a little better. I didn't know he wasn't allowed to steady date, I just figured he was a cheating bastard who didn't give a crap about me (possibly also still true).
I have a friend (or know of a girl) that went to BYU long ago and she TOLD the people in charge that she was raped and they accused her instead of listening to her and confronting the guy. Yep, they accused her. Her life went downhill after that. I mean, she got a degree elsewhere, and works and make triple digits but she has never forgotten what was stolen from her, what she did not give (consensually) and it affects her daily life now. I can just say, drugs, sex and rock and roll - after leaving the church after that happened - happened. And the guy is the reason. He took what was not his to take, just like this guy. Screw em. Screw em all.
I was treated the same by police
That's terrible
BYU has a bad habit of blaming the victim. They tried to force me to say being assaulted was consensual. I wound up suicidal because of how campus police were treating me. Then I was kicked out of BYU for attempting suicide because MY actions were supposedly “having a negative impact on student life on campus”.
One of my best friends grew up hardcore LDS. He left the church when they demonized his best friend (also mormon) regarding his sexuality. His best friend was a closet homosexual and the shame of the church drove him to suicidal ideation. My bestie was so disgusted with the LDS community he left. Not long after my bestie became wildly sexually active and tried a buffet of drugs. Even with the alcohol and drugs he graduated dental school and he is now a specialist. I am so proud of him, but I totally understand the forbidden fruit side effect. After he left the LDS community he went off the deep end, but thank GOD he never drowned. I am so glad he is one of my best bros and he is very successful and free living his best life. 🙌🏾🙏🏿🌻
I forgot to mention he was pressured into marrying in his early 20s, but it only lasted 1 year. Typical cookie cutter mormon🙄
I felt like I was indirectly shamed for being abused as a child. I was in foster care with a Mormon family when I was 12-14. I never opened up about it to anyone. But when I was being converted everything that was being taught to me made me feel so ashamed and made me feel like I wouldn’t ever be pure enough unless I was baptized.
I internalized all of this and ultimately felt like I needed to do this to be accepted by these people and this family. I never knew I was pretty much being brainwashed into thinking that it would save me and make me new.
After I was baptized it was nothing like they said it would be. I never felt like I was washed clean of anything. And I still carried the shame of abuse that wasn’t my fault. I’m glad I never told anyone about it at that age. Because I saved myself from the vulnerability of having to talk to the bishop about something so sensitive that could have potentially made the experience worse for me. I still think about this a lot from time to time. I wish I never did it.
Telling unsafe people doesn't help you survive. Your instincts warn you to wait for safety and compassion. Confessing to righteous disapproval is another form of abuse in itself.
McKay my friend I’m so PROUD of you!!! Thank you for sharing your story and helping educate people on sexual assault. I look up to you even more than before! You’re amazing!!
😂😂😂 If you believe that this guy, as big as he is and a former wrestler, was overpowered by a small South American I have a beige to sell you. It's true that there is a sucker born every minute!
McKay is such a brave man to share his story
He is the same age as my daughters and am so glad they did not go on a mission and that we’re out now. Good luck McKay with your music
Sending you my love 🇨🇦
I had a very similar experience on my mission in Belem Brasil back in 2003-2005. My second companion was emotionally, verbally, and mentally abusive towards me. It was the most miserable time of my mission. He even went as far to ask me for full body massages which I did because a) I wanted to be a better companion and b) he had such a short fuse that I wanted to avoid his wrath. I'm pretty sure he was also in the closet because he had pictures of all his white blonde haired missionary companions on his desk. He'd tell me I'd never be as good of a missionary or missionary companion as those previous missionaries. It got to the point where I finally told my mission president and his response was "we all have our crosses to bear". The only thing I left out of that conversation was the repeated requests for full body massages. I was also in the closet at that time, desperately wanting to change my sexuality and had hopes that serving a mission would do it. And I feared if I came forward with that information that I would somehow out myself in the process and be implicated in the entire thing. I don't think anything came of that conversation because my companion was allowed to serve out the rest of his mission after transfers.
So so sorry you went through this abuse also 🥺
@@roselee4445 no, I think he knew that wasn’t something he could get away with.
@@ryanmb26 so it wasnt 'full body'--aka happy end.
So so sorry. Just the creep factor would be haunting.
Thank you Mckay, your vulnerability and openness really healed some of my religious and sexual traumas. There is something about being victim of emotional manipulation that you won't understand unless you've went through it. I wish one day I would be able to share my story, but I always feel like I don't have the right words, no body would be interested in hearing, or that it wouldn't help others and its just a selfish thing.. anyway this is a good episode
So often when talking to survivors of SA, people will say "why didn't you do anything?" Freezing is a normal response to the horror. I've experienced it, and so many others have as well. Trying to forget and put it behind you, or rejecting the idea that it was SA is normal. It's a trauma that takes time to come to terms with. It's hard but as victims we have to remind ourselves that it's not our fault. We did nothing wrong. I hope McKay continues to heal and succeed in living a wonderful life.
The brethren don't step up about this stuff, they sweep it under the rug, because they are sexually stunted and ignorant themselves.
And the brethren preach that anger is bad because they want to invalidate any anger you might have toward them.
This is so tragic. I really hope this get to the “church leaders” to bring missionaries home and end this abuse
I wanna meet the 15 year old kid brave enough to stand up in front of everyone and say "Meh, I got nothing". He may not have felt safe to speak up back then but he clearly feels safe enough now and thank goodness for that.
Carah Burrell, you are so articulate.
You pick up on what your guests are saying and you add thoughts and insight that are so powerful.
Listening to you is such a helpful catalyst for people trapped in Mormon indoctrination.
You are awesome.
"Soul crushing" describes sexual abuse so, so well.
This is so so good. Super vulnerable and moving interview!
🥺🥺 Tysm Summer ❤️
Cara did a great job. I am so impressed with McKay for being able to share such a personal and painful story. He told it in such a way that will really help other men who thought they were the lone ranger. It takes a special person to be able to publicly share this kind of pain.
I loved listening to this. I myself am lds and still am. But these kinds of things NEED to be talked about. The Mormon culture is really bad and people need to change. No one should be shamed for not wanting to serve a mission. Sex NEEDS to be talked about openly and shouldn’t be “taboo” thing. Like what, we never talk about sex at all. Get married, then are expected to be cool with sex?
And there’s so many stories like yours about missionaries. Stories in my mission and many others.
I’m super sorry that these things happened to you. Members of the church need to be open about these things and not hide them.
McKay you are so strong speaking up it’s not an easy thing to talk about and I think it’s more difficult for men who are presumed to be stronger and not easily victimized but the reality is anyone can be violated 😥 gender has nothing to do with it 😧
My friend started having muscle spasms and stuff on her mission from anxiety and ended up going home. And she tried to go back out way too soon after and came home again. She felt so much shame and I felt so bad for her 😓
I literally had al.ost the exact same thing happen to me. My mission companion (2nd transfer in Pringles, Argentina) did all of the same things as his companion. To this day I can't stand people walking behind me up stairs because he's grab my ass and shit. Eventually I beat him up in the street as he tried his crap. I almost went home. Man what a crazy place. It's weird how many similar experiences I'm hearing about. I thought I was alone in this stuff
My mom said in her patriarchal blessing they told her that her children would see the second coming and be twinkled lol. It’s been so long I forgot they literally think any day now the world’s gonna end. Wild to live like that.
Edit: I wasn’t allowed to go get food after my junior prom with my friends because “technically” it was Sunday at midnight that night. I lived in California and had a super orthodox Mormon mother and step-dad. It was awful.
Twinkled?? What does that even mean ?
@@alexoffduty4813 Translated
@@alexoffduty4813 - twinkling = immediately made immortal. It's a word from scripture.
So sorry !
I'm speechless...thank you McKay for shining light on predator techniques and the damaging psychological conditioning, along with the physical isolation, that allowed such abuse. Such isolation is in itself very abusive. I'm amazed at the person you have become and sharing your story is very helpful for others.
There’s freezing and there is fawning during trauma. When your isolated and don’t see how to get out of the situation, then the safest thing to do seems to be to appease, do what is needed to keep the perpetrator feeling calm going that in doing so will end the assault. It’s another way to survive. It seems to me that in missionary situations that has got to be one of the common ways to cope with something like that - fawn or freeze or both.
So glad to get to know you, McKay, thank you for your courage and vulnerability! Carah, excited to watch you take the lead here.
To gave been through so much and still hold so much light in his eyes--! Inspiring story.
Mormonism has many dark places…this poor man found himself in one of them. Kudos for his bravery in telling his story. Hopefully the corporation will one day validate those who have suffered, instead of covering up abusive practices….🤫
@@roselee4445 Unfortunately yes.. 🤐
What a strong, dignified young man McKay is❤️❤️
“If it’s not on the outline, what am I supposed to do” yes queen, you’re killing it. Love you listening to you at the wheel!
"You're not alone" is such a bittersweet sentiment!
You are so right.
This is such a heartbreaking story of innocence crushed. The good news is how resilient this young man is and how he finally prevails and stays true to himself in the process (see part 2).
Maybe that’s why the LDS church teaches that anger is of the devil (so predators can get away with what they do).
I now know that feelings of anger are our warning system of 🚩 red flags, that our boundaries are being violated. 1:50:00
I learned that in spouse abuse survivor classes.
❤loved this interview 🥲😪 I am a mom of 8 and have sons your same age. I am so sorry for what you went through.😥. Thank you for sharing your story. It will help. Thank you. I totally resinate with all of your story. Even your knowledge about what you knew at 4 yrs old.
Sorry that this happened to you. I wish that the church leaders could understand that it hurts the image of the church to hide evil than to confront evil of men. Joining the church as an adult was such a monumental and life changing event that I believe has helped me to grow as a person. I'm so heartbroken that I joined a lie. I feel kind of lost..
Leave, it's all about money, power and control
McKay, thank you so much for sharing your story with us. Your vulnerability shows your strength. Much respect. I wish you well.
You are so courageous. I really respect you Mckay
Mormon Stories Podcast is saving lives.
I had a gay companion (greenie) on my mission. He was fighting his urges and he hit on me. I told him he was on a mission to either 1. work, or 2. go home. To put his sexual orientation on hold. He did for awhile. I didn't say anything to my mission leaders or the President. After I got transferred, he jumped his next companion, who almost knocked him out. (The ironic thing is that that Elder came out after his mission) The greenie got excommunicated and sent home. I was sent to the "hell hole" of the mission because I had not reported him. I said that I did not know it was my responsibility to do that. I went through 6 months of pure hell. He ended up being sent home. He was rebaptized and he got married and fathered 3 kids. Then later on I was "rewarded" as being called to be an Assistant and got to sit in on at least 20 tribunals to send Elders and Sisters home. 9 of them were sent home for being gay. The Sisters for dating. Very sad.
Wow that's a lot of people who got sent home! I don't think anyone got sent home on my mission.
Wow. Seems like so much heartache would have been preventable with some honest acceptance of one’s truth.
No recognition that this is religious drama Dave????
What a joke! And the members think that mission is actually serving God. There is actually nothing of real service rendered in the mission, just statistics and trying to convert other Christians to Mormonism which doesn't add anything valuable to their lives, not to mention that more than half of converts become inactive within a year or two.
Do you feel remorse for participating in tribunals, that likely scared the lives of the peopke you were judging?
Seriously, a six minute intro!? Get on with it, already! You're not the topic, girl!
I think making a child choose to be baptizedat8is way too young especially when the church expects them to be in the church forever you don’t understand the commitment at 8 years old 🤦🏼♀️
@@roselee4445 but at 8 you don’t have a true concept of what you believe especially when it’s expected to be for your life 🙇🏼♀️
Thank you McKay, for sharing your personal story here. I think it’s important that you shared some of the process of what led up the awful way you were abused. Wherever it is that your strength came from to do this interview, I’m so grateful for it! You gave great insight to how any abuse can easily happen to LDS missionaries.
I sincerely hope that things change so this church’s leaders begin to keep the people in their care safer than this…it was horrific to think about what you experienced, and I am so, so sorry about all of it.
My brother has a family member who is gay and he crawled into bed with his mission companion who was a football player. The guy woke and literally put him in the ICU. Football player finished up his mission, and other guy was sent home and excommunicated by his Stake President (his own Dad).
wow thats messed up.
I’m now 53, had a stroke 6 years ago and I’m still evolving and to an extent figure out who I am, the stroke changed so much about my life and my views🤷🏼♀️
All due respect, someone who preys sexually is NOT attracted to them.
Agreed, they're definitely attracted to the act of controlling someone. And if you're viewing someone as so worthless that your actions are somehow justified in controlling someone sexually, you certainly don't have any positive feelings for that individual. It's hideous truly. Completely malicious. There's nothing wrong with hating your abuser like so many try to preach.
Agreed! He was a predator not suppressed.
Unrighteous Dominion
Nevermo Christian here - Kudos to Carah for her beautiful smile and superb listening skills! John D, you are mentoring Carah in a great way! What a wonderful Part 1 interview with McKay (who could have his pick of any girl on the planet!) as he sincerely shared the good, the bad and the ugly of his LDS Mission in Brazil. Evil lurks in all areas of life, and I feel sad McKay was abused when he was out to evangelize and do the Lord’s work. it is awesome OKAY to call out someone if they are an evil, dominating individual who perpetrated a direct sin against another, and setting them straight isn’t considered anti-Christian. Wishing McKay all the best in his music career and life in general as an all around good guy!!!
I just learned about secret combinations from this other ex Mormon that covers true crime to do with Mormons. So it’s great that she told us what that is. This is crazy hearing they would tie up their mission companion. I remember this ex boyfriends brother was told that this Spanish guy was wealthy and then when he came to see the guy as like foreign exchange student, he tried to hold him captive. I couldn’t believe my ex boy friend laughed about it and the guy did not have a wealthy family! He was just saying that to get the family to trust him! He finally was freed. My ex boyfriends family was very well off and the daddy was a prominent lawyer. They were half German and Spanish. To me that sounded terrifying and by the way I have heard horror stories about foreign exchange students, one girl went to another Spanish family that was wealthy and the brother in the family raped her. I always heard that Mormons were way too trusting and naive and in danger going to foreign countries and all kinds of stuff happens that puts them in danger.
If you googled me with the word “cult”, you would learn my story from the outside looking in, but I assure you that there’s still so much more that has to be processed in layers as I work my way through the emotional trauma of being spiritually and psychologically abused. Being a survivor is also a journey and not the destination people may think it is. You can move farther and farther away from being a victim but without the necessary therapy it’s not truly surviving. I’m here to encourage anyone who has suffered ANY FORM of abuse to find an understanding and knowledgeable therapist who is willing to stick with you for the long haul. Where there is conflict, there is growth. You have the stuff of a warrior already within you!
OMG Cara you talk too much, especially in the introduction It's way too much! Get off the me stage!
The Cara show, lol.
Hearing him and seeing his reactions was so uncomfortable to watch when he talks about the assault’s because I felt his pain.
I got called as an AP and immediately missionaries I'd never heard of resented and hated me. I was so happy to be released from that position amd get back to normal missionary stresses.
I never understood that. I always treated my AP's with respect as it was given to me and all my APs were very kind and we got along great. Individuals who struggle with authority will automatically assign judgement to anyone above them regardless.
Wow! Thank you for sharing your story. It isn’t often that you are able to hear someone share and name what was happening to you.
THIS takes incredible courage and I have mad respect for all of you. Thank you for your dedication to this work and creating a platform to help us understand how to do things with better quality.
The Temple is horrible . It was a nightmare for me and I was traumatized after that .
I just want to give him a great big hug and tell him that he is a wonderful human being and what happened to him was so wrong.
I'm amazed watching you talk about your story because I still can't say anything about my childhood sexual abuse to a therapist alone in a room after years of trying. I have to write it down ahead of time and get up the courage to show it to them.
Killed it Carah!
I was sexually assaulted by my companion. Far as I know he was disfellowshipped, however, was married in the temple before I got home a year later.
Stories like this make me glad im no longer part of this church. I really hate how forgiveness is taught and how people who have acts of evil done to them are treated poorly too often.
did McKay ever get justice? I can only imagine that the abuser was "happily" married in the temple with kids and is probably in the bishopric.
My heart goes out to McKay. I was sexually assaulted during a sports physical my sophomore year of college. Everything he & Delhin said about a state of shock post-assault is so so true.
When he was explaining his patriarchal blessing I was just imagining how absolutely dope it would have been if he would have said something like “I bless you that you will melt the faces off of the saints in Zion with your hard rock music and drumming.”
🤣🤣🤣now THAT would have been amazing… maybe enough for me to stay in the church? 🤔 (naw lol)
WWJD? He’d knock the predator on his rear end!
Sexual assault throws victims into a lifetime of shock. Sometimes they’re able to get a good therapist and can work together to have some healing. Shock. Exhaustion. Depression. So much fallout. Victims live in a world that no longer makes any sense. “I feel like I’m taking crazy pills!”
Temple chanting in the prayer circle reminded me of the young men’s training in Islam. Expected. Practiced for hours daily. Also the Buddhist, “namyoho renge kio.” Repeated in meditation, smoothly, seamlessly.
My brother (who is still LDS and temple married with children)-was seminary president as a youth and, went on a foreign mission, where he was given leadership roles over his missionary peers. As he returned home, our father found his former companion phone book laid open with the word (in all caps) RAPE as one of the numbers. My father inquired if he had been harmed. But come to find out, he had groomed, assaulted, and full on raped his missionary companions. No one ever said a thing. He "apologized" to his bishopric, who required some light discipline, and was married in the temple within the year.
Between the churches, the boy scouts and the sports coaches our children are not safe! We absolutely have to teach children in a straightforward way about predators and how to say no to them and fight them off.
This must have been so scary. It breaks my heart to know that you thought you just needed to continue to love your abuser.
McKay Johnson, your missionary trainer was GASLIGHTING (aka GROOMING) you with all this abuse! It's heartbreaking to know you were put through this terrible treatment, and I'm glad you have had this opportunity to openly speak about it.
On the same note as (having an erection does NOT mean you wanted it 😭) women also "get wet" when being raped doesn't mean she "wanted it. On law & order the lady cop explained this as when you cut an onion are you crying? Tear ducts are working but not crying .
Spartacus mentioned an article of Catholic priest abuse in France. I guess he knows about the abuse here and in Ireland. (Everywhere). Here’s 2 movie recommendations: Spotlight and Calvary.
Spot light is awesome
@@alexoffduty4813 Yes, it is. It’s about reporting abuse. Calvary is about the effects of abuse . . . and forgiveness.
I spent 12 years in private catholic school in Midwest, and the need for a podcast like this is paramount!
Bishops/priests/church counselors, what say you, should be mandated reporters just like teachers.
You would think the church would do more to prohibit this type of situation from occurring? Why in Gods name are they leaving teens alone in a apartment together sharing a bedroom? There should be a min of 3-4 in a housing situation ideally with a responsible adult in tow
I don't know if the mission president would've done something if he told him. I've seen in other religious circles that an act of assault is treated like consensual sex.
Exactly what I thought
God ordained abuse in other words. God sent you here to be my concubine 😡
Is there a significant meaning for Mormons in the male name McKay. This McKay and “McKay and Jordan.” Never Mormon wants to know!
Has there EVER been legal prosecution for abusers for missionaries in foreign countries? Even if the abuser or perp is not a member?
I was emotionally abused by one of my companions. Thank god we were only together 2 months. It was hell.
Please shut up and let McCay tell his story. Good grief.
Wake up wr are all god and your the only thing live in the illusion. Ver6 real illusion. Without the directors of life be in void. Thhis why we need to thinl love others no t love as couple.
I'm an exmormon now
I work across from the temple, church offices and kirkton | Mckonkie is right next door. So eerie to walk past it every day, the more I look at it the more creepy it all feels. Especially with the capitol building just above on the hill.
*Shudder*
I believe you and no one can judge or ridicule anyone that has been through SA by any means may God have mercy on all these predators because I sure in the f... don't!!💔😢
I like the sexual assault title, man i praise your endurance, and Exmo lex coming to the rescue, she awesome person, i have her on my subscribetion, like to have macays too.i myself went through hell, years and years of depression, so sorry too. John dehlin, wish i can meet him someday.he saved my life. Im free now thanks to john, he is the real prophet
. I listened through all of his podcast, even if its 4 hrs. Never boring. Thank u again i also learn more and more.and carrah😁😁😁🙏👍