Did the Maesters kill all the dragons?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
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Robert, you speak with such conviction that I believe that everything you say is canon.
That was easy.
He’s got it
Sums up Robert's Rebellion.
He's sort of our Grand Maester isn't he?
@@robertphillips213*Ned Stark disliked that*
Robert! Please narrate for audiobooks. You are so very good at this. Thank you!
He has a channel called The Well Told Tale here on TH-cam where he does just that with a selection of stories. Also, I completely agree! If I could hear him read all of the song of ice and fire books I think I would be in heaven!
They should have had a bracken and a Blackwood as regents. That would have been fun to watch.
The time when Blackwood and bracken agree with each other was a disaster for Robb's alliance plan 😂
Yep
Facts!!!!!
This was top notch. Great video IDG! All of your videos are superb but this was fresh. As a huge fan and reader of Fire and Blood many times, I hadn’t noticed Munkin being the sole person to retain his power and even gain power. Wish I could give it 2 likes!
The most damning part is undoubtedly the fate of the hatchlings. And this is what I really love about Fire & Blood - the way GRRM plays with the realistic problem of unreliable historical chroniclers.
I've read Fire and Blood and I'm a little vexed with myself that I didn't see Maester Munkin's machinations before now. Well done Robert!
Same. It was so obvious
Given that the Maesters wrote the history it's understandable that they didn't play up their actions and casually wrote off all these death as 'nothing suspicious'. It's not surprising we didn't notice this on the first read of Fire & Blood. Thanks to Robert for laying it all out so clearly.
@@dromankass8655 I'd compare learning about the maesters' dealings to learning about the existence of the FBI's COINTELPRO. Dastardly but not at all surprising.
Love the theory: personally, I think the moste damaging evidence is his role in Peake's attempted coup. First, he backed the conspirators (and therefore, probably Peake) and refused to obey his king then after it has been obvious that Lord Rowan's confession was forced and the result of tortures, he sent ravens asking the lords for help and helped to end the secret siege by standing on Aegon's side... eventually, he is the only one that "participated" to the coup to have been spared and whose role has never been questioned... however fishy his intentions were. Not to mention that one of the conspirators, Marston Waters, dies in his care !
Just want to say that I often see your video titles and think "ah, i already know this theory" and then I watch it and am completely blown away by your analysis. You present even well-discussed theories in a very unique, thorough, intelligent way. Love your content keep up the good work.
Your theories are so good and well thought out, I sometimes think they're Canon 😂
Dang. I was sort of interested but not sold on the Maester Conspiracy. I think you’re making a believer out of me.
Not all Maesters are in on the conspiracy in equal amounts, but it is most certainly true.
Its not a maester conspiracy. Its a Hightower conspiracy. Maesters are just pawns for the Hightowers.
I like how the sickly wingless dragon wyrm sort of parallels Aegon III himself and the dying out of the Targaryen line, but it does lead to the practical question of why the eggs don’t hatch.
Well done, Robert.
the Maester conspiracy seems more and more real with every new bit of info I learn
The source of the conspiracy theory is Marwyn, and his story is full of contradictions. He claims the reason Aemon was sent to the Wall rather than being raised to Archmaester is that the other maesters didn't trust him because he was a Targaryen. But there's already been an Archmaester Vaegon Targaryen, we know Aemon went to the Wall so the Great Council wouldn't try to make him break his maester's oath and become king instead of Aegon V, and Marwyn himself was namd archmaester despite claiming that he's as untrusted as Aegon!
@@clownpendotfart More than just Marwyn dislike and don't trust the Maesters though I wasn't just him.
@@CursedKelpie Who else? Barbrey Dustin, who blames them for Brandon Stark's betrothal to Catelyn Tully?
@@clownpendotfart yeah, I’m not an expert, but I know the idea was bigger then just one guy saying a thing and personally I do think they maesters try to “guide” or perhaps use soft power to control things as best they can. The Catholic Church did stuff like that back in the day too, that might be where George got the idea.
@@CursedKelpie The secular authorities back then were aware of the political power of the Catholic Church and would have conflicts with them. But no Targaryen has ever taken an anti-maester stance. Maegor was anti just about everyone, but he was much more opposed to the Faith than the Citadel.
I'm here via notification.
Figured I might as well sub, after _watching all the ASOIAF playlists back-to-back_ over the past few days.
I was so happy when unwyn peake got sacked in Fire and Blood, probably the most underrated section of the book is the Lysene spring
Something that I think people overlook a lot about Marwyn’s line “who do you think killed all the dragons last time around?” Comes directly after saying that the maesters would have tried to kill Aemon if he’d made it to the Citadel. I think “dragon” here means Targaryen, and he’s referring to maester meddling in the downfall of the house generally, not specifically with killing their scaly doggos
I think it probably means both.. great theory either way!
Smallfolk: Would you lose?
Unwin Peake: Nah, I'd win.
Damn, you made a very convincing case for the maester theory!
BTW:
have you ever thought about going into voice acting? 🙂
Is this channel run by Barbrey Dustin?
The Grey Rat hate is real!
@indeepgeek would you mind doing a video on why Sam wasn’t given the ring? I’d very much appreciate it!
Sam's job was to help Frodo. It is as simple as that. He was a great and loyal servant and friend, and fulfilled a crucial role perfectly.
@@inthefade could Frodo not do any of that?
Frodo was given the ring from his uncle, Bilbo. Tolkien grew up in early 1900 Britain and this falls in line with their beliefs on inheritance. Idk why Bilbo would’ve even considered giving it to Sam. At Rivendell during the council meeting Frodo volunteers to take the ring to Mordor. And again, I’m not sure why the council would’ve even considered giving the ring to Sam.
Yeah, always thought that Mushroom's Testimony was the best source from that time.
Amy, in her wildest voice:- MUNKENSMAT!!!
I was not entirely sold on the maesters conspiracy theory but this look at GM Munkun actions and prerogatives is a convincing piece of evidence. Well spotted Robert ! :)
Best case for the Grand Maester cospiracy I've read.
Or watched.
Honestly never thought of this conspiracy, but it's an interesting one. In Munkin's defence, the Winter Fever was extremely, *extremely* deadly, and I doubt he had a hand in the wars, conflicts and responsibilities that the surviving regents had to tend to.
The way so many of the group helping to rule died and weren't all replaced makes things so clear what was happening.
4:05 Faceless Men
I've been unsure about the Maester Conspiracy before but this video kinda fully sold me on it.
I always assumed the Maesters killed the dragons off by helping to start the Dance. I think this makes more sense; dragons were at an all-time low, and someone who wanted them dead was able to control/manipulate the king. That he wrote the histories is just icing on the cake.
Were there not eggs on Dragonstone and was Sheepstealer a breeding dragon? Perhaps she laid eggs in the Vale?
HOTD's "Seasnake" gets seasick... lol
Great vid, thanks Robert
when the maesters ruled… so more than you think but less than they’d like to have ruled?
What?
It seems to me that there are two possible times "killed all the dragons the first time around" could refer to, and I think Ive seen you use the line as evidence for both. One is after the dance, and the other is the doom of valyria. Obviously its not reasonable to call both of these events "the first time around", so I think it would be interesting to explore which of the two Marwin was referring to
I feel that the evidence is compelling that that the Grand Maester is as guilty as the Man Behind the Grassy Knoll.
The boy without a doubt had an advanced and severe case of PTST. One that would take a real person in todays times (or any time really) possibly years to manage. You grow up REAL fast in the Seven Kingdoms…
It wasn't just the maesters.
When the andals took oldtown they used house hightower the faith and the maesters to control westeros.
Lmao, the Andals didnt take over Oldtown or House Hightower. The Reach did not fight the Andals but married them, assimilating them to their society. The Hightowers, just like Gardners, married Andal princesses. Oldtown, as the oldest and biggest city, became a religious capital for the Andals. The Hightowers themselves were traders and diplomats, not fighters and conquerors. The only time they actively participated in a war was during the dance, after and before that they never played a big role. They were no kings and later no lord paramounts of a region, they were simply an old, rich noble house. Why the fuck would anymore try to take over House Hightower while there are more richer, more powerful and stronger houses
@@redwarrior9100 first of all oldtown holds the only knows repository of all knowledge in westeros, its the core of all religious affair of westeros, it was the largest city in wasters, had protection of the largest region and most prestigious kings and were themselves kings before submitting and focusing on wealth and power than military influence if you wanted to influence a medieval society what would you do control the books, the people who teach them alongside the religion I mean the very first high septon rose to power after the assassination of a lord Hightower and was regent for his son and made himself high septon if that isnt taking control I down know what is so why would take over house Hightower,
they have the largest city, are as wealthy as the Lannister, the most militarily powerful lords in their region, and the strongest none royal house in westeros who wound try to focus in on them
@redwarrior9100 House gardener order all houses in the reach to prepare for war. House hightower betrayed their lord gardener by inviting the andals and giving them a foothold in the reach.
Lord hightower set aside his wife of 20 years and their children ( likely the reason House manderly left the reach) so he could marry an andal bride.
They harnessed the wealth of the hightower , the influence of the high septon and citadel by rewriting history in their favour.
It has always been
Oldtown vs Targaryens
@redwarrior9100 oh and the Hightowers were Kings until the submitted the the Gardeners who would not tolerate another king in the reach.
@@redwarrior9100they WERE kings. They joined the Kingdom of the Reach via diplomatic marriage with the Gardeners.
House Targaryen
- “Dragons were such majestic and wise beings.”
Maesters
- “Man fuck dragons. All my homies hate dragons.”
The reverence of dragons is a direct inverse correlation to the abundance of dragons.
Sheesh, dropped my phone when he said spoiler warning and almost heard the hotd spoiler
okay i of course agree that the maesters have their own agenda and everything... but i am still not convinced about them killing of the dragons.
First of all: What firstly reduced the number of dragons was the dance and i dont think there is anyone besides the targaryen themself you can give the fault in this.
Secondly, as you mentioned yourself, the birth of disfigured dragons started before all eggs were collected at one place. Now you may say the birth of this difigured dragon was the archmaesters fault as well, but then we must remember dragons like Caraxes who had several malformations himself. This means the cause for the birth of a malformed dragon and the subsequent failed attempts to hatch new once may lie far further back in time than the "rule of the maester".
Thirdly we have the problem of the valyrian empire. Until a few centuries ago there was a continent wide empire of dragonriders that conquered and enslaved countless people. as such is it certainly not wrong to assume that in essos there had to be forces conspiaring against them and their dragons. yet what brought their downfall was not the decline of dragons but the fact that they had built their city between vulcanos. Westeros and as such the maesters had been spared from valyrian conquest until the targaryen arrived and i think it likely that any research in killing dragons through poison would have started only then. Yet a problem we have hear is that until aegons conquest the maester would have had their difficulties to get close to any dragons to experiment on. Hell one could argue that their research could have only properly started when the "rule of the maester" began. Which would theoreticly be still possible since this may be the first time targaryen didnt cared about their dragons enough that a regent maester could have gotten excess to sufficient research material. But then we have the problem with malformed dragons before this time-period.
If you argue against a theory, i think you are obligated to offer an alternative, so i should do so myself:
Genetic is always a bit funny in asoiaf. But what is pretty clear shown are the results of incest. For example targaryen practize incest for generation- and as a result we have a very high number of miscariages and dragonbabies (yes i fear mirri maz duur seems to have cursed not only dany but her entire bloodline reaching back into the past too- please note the sarcasm). There are no other families miscarriages grr martin draws that much attention too and in fact there are multiple cases where people in the story claim that inbreeding weakens the resulting children and causes them to be born "wrong".
Why is this important?
Because it may stand to reason that if this is the case with the family that claims to be "the blood of the dragon" than this may also be the case with actual dragons. Ask yourself, how many dragons were alive after the doom? How many dragons were brought with the targaryen to westeros?
Five.
That is not a healthy amount to repopulate an entire species.
So with a far smaller gen-pool but a longer lifespan than the targaryen, i claim that the decline of the dragon was inevitable the moment valyria was destroyed. Not by poison which somehow eluded all these people that opposed the empire for centuries but through inbreeding, which has such a destructive influence in grr martins world.
He definitely killed the dragons…
Last sighting of a dragon was 1905. Scientists say a dragon couldn't generate fire then how does the Bombardier Beetle produce a burning chemical?
Barbrey Dustin tried to tell us the maesters were all shady as hell 🤷🏽♂️
Masters: ALAS! WE HAVE SUCCESSFULLY SCHEMED THE DEATH OF THE DRAGONS! NOW WESTEROS IS FINALLY FREE OF MAGIC!
The Others: 𝗛𝗲𝗹𝗹𝗼 𝘁𝗵𝗲𝗿𝗲 ☺️
If it can happen to a small town nuclear power plant softball team, it can happen to a small council
Your intro made me think of Oliver Cromwell...
I think we also need to ask to what extent was the young king involved in the decision to kill the dragons. From what you say, he would agree with the action. Was the dragons' extermination at his behest perhaps?
This is a new masterpiece for Robert. Finally I can put some meat and bones on the grand maester conspiracy and see HOW and WHEN (I already know the WHY) the Targaryens lost their true power, and the world lost its magic.
TBH though, maybe he's a hero, and killing off the dragons was a good thing? I mean, for the smallfolk?
Finding out that some guy killed all the dragons would be kinda like in our timeline if we found out that some scientist hired by the UN to inspect the world's nukes had secretly DESTROYED them ALL and made sure no one could ever build new ones (perhaps by convincing Pinhead and the Cenobites to come take any nuclear physicists who work on bombs back to Hell with them and replace their teeth with jagged little rods of plutonium, or something?). I mean, who would call the guy who ended the possibility of total human destruction a BAD guy?
Though I guess in both cases, we'd find out pretty soon if the overwhelming deterrent of a doomsday weapon was actually what had kept some relative PEACE in our separate realms, and whether the loss of those weapons (even if not in entirely good hands when they existed) might cause far more strife and destruction than could happen with the threat of annihilation hanging over people. Which, you know, arguably is exactly what happened in Westeros after the dragons died: five Blackfyre rebellions, Robert's civil war, the Ironborn revolt, the War of the Five Kings, etc. etc.
love your videos!
Aegon III had the coolest crown imo
just a simple golden band. no excessive ornamentation or insecure symbols of authority
New video request: Make a video on Melian the Maia
Poor little Aegon. He had a rough start in life.
Didn't GoT state that the last generation(s) of Targaryen dragons were as small as cats? When tf did that happen?
If I have to guess, Munkin poisoned all the dragon eggs in possession of the Targaryens, and so even if they were lucky enough to be born, they would die very early
in charge of the crown lands to be exact.
King of the North
DAKINGINDANORF!!
What do you mean when? They rule it in the present series too.
He must have had the entire assassin's guild in his pocket or his end would have been swift and certain...
What happened to your Robert's rebellion playlist, I really enjoyed it.
I think I heard he’s re-recording them!
He removed all lower quality videos and is reediting and reuploading them with better visuals and audio, updated information and consistent thumbnails, i too look forward to it coming back
If he refused to write anything in the history books, it was because he was consolidating power for OLD Town, the Citadel and the Maesters... it is interesting that we see the Maester in GoT pretend to be a weak and fragile man with the courtesan or harlot but during the act he wasn't frail nor weak and that was a red flag that they were the true power screwing Westeros.
Also for the boy king, the Westerosi Maesters could have used what he witnessed to blame the dragons for what happened and keep him ignorant to the fact that it was Otto Hightower and Alycent who began a coup to oust the Targaryen rule which would inevitably lead to a civil war which would lead to the dragon population and even the bonding of Targaryen and Dragon's to a decline as a result if the civil war... then if all the well educated and experienced Targaryens were somehow knocked out it would be easy to manipulate the young Targaryen heirs to whatever the Maesters willed for the true power of the Targaryens lay in their dragons.
We could even argue that had Viserys been more patient with Khall Drogo and Daenerys that eventually he would have witnessed his sister give "birth" to the dragons and if he had the patience again to wait some years, he would once again have become a Dragon Lord along with his sister regardless if she was still a Khallesi and then her son with Drogo would have become a dragon lord himself which in all honesty would have been a way better story and comeback for the Targaryens and Valyrians and dragons as they would go on a conquest of most of Essos and then rain fire and blood on the accursed Westerosi who themselves deserved to be decimated by the Others and the Night King or whatever was the leader of them instead of that garbage story in the GoT TV show final seasons.
Perhaps one day Robert will theorise about a book written by one of his subscribers eh?
I'm not new here but hopefully I'm welcome
Obi-wan for Maester
suspicious!
Ser Pounce!
Off the audio mix is not great
The show retconning Dany's 3 eggs angers me
Well if he did, the grand maester was a hero
Those Maesters were sneaky, too bad no Targaryen ever caught on to them.
@aster4jaden
When they are openly bragging about it.. hmm
There was a Targaryen archmaester: Vaegon.
Bruh, I think it's firs time that i stopped at the spoiler alert and quit watching video... I already heard too much about dance
Batman was that Maester
I think all the fandom has to stop interpreting, commenting or making any content about the world of ice and fire until book six is out. As long as we seem OK with more prequels - the further away the chance books six and seven will ever be published. A strike as protest and I hope it will be a noisy strike.
If you have to name your 'history' book the "True Telling", your Telling probably doesn't have much Truth to it...
The Maesters are so full of shit. So many Targaryens died of "bad bellies" and there are shit tons of miscarriages. Convenient that the historians and medical experts are the same people.
Also, Jaehaerys's son was killed by a crossbow bolt to the throat, while Archmaester Gildayn says they were aiming at the nobody standing next to him and missed, nothing to see here. This was the last barrier between the Marsters and what they needed to drive a wedge in the Targaryen family (great council of 101).
It's bullshit, and it's bad for ya.
How about spoiler warnung at the beginning of the video, you basically spoiled the end of HOTD for those that have not read the books
First
Maesters just jealous they do not have dragon rider blood so they gotta ruin the fun...
King sir pounce 2024
Long live King Sir Pounce !
sire pounce 2024!
Would that mean a pussy is King? Glad I took the Black
Maybe Tommen thought he would just land on his feet and escape…
I vote Hotpie. Sir Pounce as hand.
That the one dragon was born seeming like a subterranean creature lends credence to the idea that dragons are bred from the Fire Wyrms in Valeria. Cool.
It wasn't necessarily a poisoning of the eggs - the maesters just wiped the incubation methods from history, so nobody understood how to properly hatch them. One of the reasons Dany's eggs hatch is because they incubated on Dragonstone, while the others were gathered at KL, yielding weaker dragons as a result, as the geothermal energy (volcanoes) are a necessary factor in proper dragon incubation.
a fascinating idea.
not a bad idea. fits with old Valyria being on top of a number of volcanos.
That doesn't explain why the dragons that were born were sick and dying
@@matiasrodriguez7408 It absolutely does - are you familiar with what happens to chickens that aren't properly incubated?
You have strong points. But again, GRRM clearly stated that Dany's dragons hatched more accidentally because of 3 blood sacrifices - the death of Drogo, the witch and Dany's stillborn son. Dany's eggs were not hatched normally like other dragon eggs did, they were petrified for hundred years at least. But you make a great point when you said they wiped out knowledge of the incubation methods that helped dragon eggs to hatch. And also the fact that the dragonkeepers who had niche knowledge were killed or died out helped them.
The problem with people who think they know enough to take complete charge.. is that they don't.
Interesting. Off subject: I started reading Memory, Sorrow and Thorn trilogy by Tad Williams...my God how come I hadn't heard of him??! 😮 So good! Written before ASOIF, GRRM obviously was influenced by him. A must!!
I still stand by my theory that the Hightowers and the Citadel are in major kahoots together to strengthen Old Town. They told the King to slit his wife open during birth, and she died. Opening the way for Allicent to wrangle thr King.
Another great video, Robert Loreatheon 👌🏻
More than a little suspicious Munkun was able to basically be the lone survivor so highly placed with so many deaths of regents and Small Council members etc. And it would have been the perfect opportunity to seize upon to disrupt the dragon reproduction processes once Munkun was basically solely in charge for a considerable amount of time. Especially with the wider state of the realm healing from the DotD and many of the Great Houses dealing with their own regional issues. Its very maester-like and certainly fits their M.O. to create such conditions and maximize them to suit their aims , while avoiding obvious blame and ire. In this case a world with dragons (and magic overall , which dragons part of) , and this was the perfect opportunity. Marwyn much later basically admits as such with no reason to lie about it at that point and this era would have been the most obvious time and opportunity. Even the lead up to the DotD , a dragon-riding family with an exceptionalism complex , the DotD bound to happen at some point anyway. But would not put it past the maesters to have contributed with some poisonous advice and counsel to key power players.
Overall i just find this Regency era absolutely fascinating. A wonderful amount of complexity , upheaval , crazy goings-on and certain ambitious power players trying to wield considerable influence after such devastation. All while an understandably extremely traumatized and broken boy-king clearly struggling to basically get through each day. Just a fascinating complex time period in this universe.
Jessum crow, I’d lock myself in my room too. Aegon III’s survival tactic made a lot of sense.
Child kings and power hungry regents do tend to mix like water and sodium - just ask Richard III of england
now, *that's* a lot of spoilers for the end of House of the Dragon...
In normal life a newspaper headline with a question means that the story isn't true. OUr Robert subverting expectations somewhat.
Onto the main point.
Why is everyone using pictures showing Black Velaryons just because the TV show race-swapped them?
The same people don't show a Black Hermione when they use pictures from Harold Potter.
In both cases the writers of a new show changed the race of a character compared to that described in the literature and the authors both agreed to the changes.
GRRM said that he wished he had originally made the Dragonlords Black but never said that they had always been Black skinned.
JKR said that Hermione has always been black, and that we have always been at war with Eastasia.
Logically you should be using illustrations of Velaryons as pale-skinned, violet eyes and silver hair as per GRRM's stated descriptions, but using Black Hermione as the authoress insists she always was.
There's no consistency here and it's annoying.
Dragons are the nuclear weapons of the ASOIAF series, so it makes sense after such a dangerous period of heavy dragon usage, the maesters would hatch a plot to eliminate dragons from the world. Perhaps they weren’t out to gain power, but to deliberately lose it, to eliminate an existential threat to society. Maybe they were right to do it.
Non-dragon proliferation. If the books ever end up like like S8, then the Maesters would have been vindicated.
"Minor" spoilers!??!
Enjoyed the video, though. :)
Dear Robert, I would very much like to say thank you! Your soothing voice, your interest and passion... It all makes a great and relaxing commute to work . Thank you!!! ❤
That said, i would very much like a video about Marwin. 😂
3:35 wow color le surprised
Just wait, when the next long n8ght happens the maesters will be like, "omg what have we done, the dragons are gone and we're completely defenseless" then Dany can come in be like f- you, than fly away.
Lemon Pies rule the 7 kingdoms. It is known.
Great content Robert thank you!
Damn bro I've been listening to the ".. And the witcher" in the intro for a year now but I yet to see any witcher video bruv 😭😂
He has made 10+ videos on it.
Awesome video! Much love! ✌️
I suspect GRRM based monken on cardinal Thomas Wolsey who managed England during the final phase of the war of the roses and whom I suspect wrote History of Richard the Third. There is an almost jarring style change in the writing in the final 1/8 of the book that matches Mores more pedantic style. Thomas Wolsey was a much better author.
Her : I'm sure he's thinking about about another woman.
Me : Did the Maesters kill all the dragons?
8:49 why is there a Corbray crest there? Was a Corbray ever Hand?