I'd never deal with a welding supply company that restricted the size of owner cylinders. I've got a half-dozen bottles, ranging in size from 80cf to 250 cf, I used to have a 330cf bottle, but traded it for another 250, the 330 was a little bigger than I like to move around my shop. My welding shop takes my bottles, and exchanges them for full ones, so "your" bottle changes when you bring it in. I can't imagine insisting on getting "my" bottle back, but I suppose it could be done. Frankly, I don't care what the bottle looks like, as long as it's within hydro cert, has no ownership markings, and is the same size as the one I brought it.
My dad owned a 125 cu/ft O2 cylinder for 30 years that was made by his friends company: Mittler Supply (RIP Tom Mittler). Dad meticulously minted out the tank and painted it beautifully Green and Brown. He then dropped it off at Knoxville Holston gases to be filled. Jerks lost his tank and gave him some beat up, worn out rusty oxygen tank and threatened to make him lease when he is an owner... Holston gases, treat your customers better.
Thanks for the explanation! It helps to see a person standing next to the cylinders to help aid in figuring out how heavy they are and how to move them around.
It's actually a metal alloy similar to solder, not sure exactly what it it though. This is precisely the reason if you've ever taken a welding class at a trade school or community college for instance, one of the things you're taught is to never use boiling water to thaw a frozen valve or free a cylinder frozen to the ground since you could either melt safety plug or soften it enough to leak, and some cylinders, particularly larger acetylene cylinders, have a safety plug at the bottom as well as the valve assembly.
I own my k tanks. Every time I take them in to be filled they try to keep them until I bring in the titles. I'm taking them in this weekend to be filled again. Yes, I'll take the titles but it is getting to be a pain after over 30 years.
@@dustjunky2000 they tell me the tanks are theirs. I don't know if they think they are going to charge me rent or what. It only takes a few minutes to fill them.
Just because your company only leases the larger cylinders does not mean that they are only leased cylinders for everybody. Where I live, you can own any cylinder, and refill any size.
This guy full of crap I have been in welding business for 50 plus years I own over 45 bottles, I have bought bottles for years it doesn't make a difference how big they are and they belong to me. The company that I have been working with to fill my bottles went broke or sold out, now all these other so-called companies will not fill my bottles, they want to trade my bottles for their bottles they can go jump in the lake, I have too much money invested in new valve and nice paint jobs on my bottles I'm not giving up my bottles for rent. I do not lease the bottles to anyone I use them for my own use. All these welding supply companies think they own everything that way they can put the screws to you and charge you all they can. In Texas by law they cannot charge you rent on the bottles unless you sign an agreement on a pick-up day and a return date. When you buy the gas in a bottle it is yours until the bottle is empty. The only way they could charge you rent if they are a rental company.
@@jordananders8525I've been in a welding business a machine business and supply business since 1976. It is not a question of ownership of my bottles, all my bottles has customer-owned on them, 75/25 mix, pure Argan, oxygen, acetylene, CO2, nitrous oxide, the problem is the companies that I went to said it was too much trouble for them to fill my bottles and return them to me, so they wanted me to give them my bottles and then they would not charge me rent on their bottles and they would keep me supplied or what I need. Back in 76 we did that with a company gave them around 12 bottles 3 years later they start charging me rent but did not replace my bottles a bunch of Thieves. So shame on me once not twice. So now I have no alternative but to drive 300 miles one way to have my bottles filled. The reason for that is nobody around here will fill acetylene. All these be high-tech companies want to cut the little man out like me, just like Walmart has done the mama pop stores.
@@sherwinstaudt1881 huh. Here in utah we have Humphries that will do fill only and give you the bottle back. most other places will swap out for one with a blank neck ring if you own the bottle, and all slick necks are considered to be COCs unless the bottle itself has ownership markings. Lindie/praxair gives me slick necks if I ask. Every area is different but only doing business with places that give you slick necks might be your best bet. And for the bottles that might have been de facto stolen, small claims court maybe? Sounds like a fairly easy case.
Thanks. I learned that the tank I bought at an estate sale was manufactured in January 1953 and was last inspected in October 1972. What is a reasonable charge for the test? Got quoted $49.95 today.
REE means rejection elastic expansion is the retest operator if it's above that level it's means the cylinder will be bad when calculated after hydrotest.
the Local Praxair and Airgas told me that my tank could not be traded in because of its size it is either a 125CF or 122CF with no ownership ring, there for it is a owned cylinder not a rental and it has lasted me about 4-5 years so far, but still denying a fill because of its size is a bad business model if your tank does not have a ownership ring.
Rent one slightly bigger and fill you’re original thank whit it and return it back the next day that way you only pay for the gas and you can fill up your thank and not pay rental fee. But you need to buy high pressure hose 2500 psi and have the right connection for the tank, bingo.
Great video as this is exactly what I was trying to find on YT but you are the only one who explained it for us weekend warriors that have just got our hands on a MIG Welder that uses CO2 as a shield gas. So thanks for the fine audio and no background music that is so annoying. First Class all the way~!!!
Unless you live out west, in which case you will find all of those sizes can be customer owned. I happen to own 1 T (330cu-ft) and 3 K (220cu-ft) size cylinders.
Thank you so very much for this wonderful explanation and it really shed more light on my understanding about the sizes of and the markings on these gas cylinders.One thing that I just want to further understand is the size of a cylinder that is smaller than the 80 cu/ft and bigger than the 40 cu/ft, what size can that be.The 80 cu/ft is the Oxygen cylinder that I have and the other one that is smaller than the 80 cu/ft and bigger than the 40 cu/ft is the Acetylene .What size could that be.Thanks and I hope I will be able to get a response from you as regards this .
can you please help me with the info on mine? i am in canada where i purchased mine,i believe it's a 60cf but i dont recall,either 60 or less,anyways there is no marking on the neck,here is what is marked on the bottle SPUN 5WH79+SCM 1{dash line with circle under it with vertical line in the center of circle}92 CTC 3A-2015 PF 11541 12(small 353) 06+star
The SPUN is just a manufacturer info, Ctc 3A-2015 is the type of steel cylinder and max pressure it can be filled to, the PF 11541 is the bottle serial #, the 12(353) 06+* is the last date of test.12 [December] manufacture or tester RIN 353 and 06 is the yea of 2006. + means it can be filled 10% over bottle pressure and * means 10 bottle shelf life befor being needed to be retested from 12/2006, so dec of 2018 is the needed test to recertifications your bottle
thank you very much for the precise info and you are correct but what about the " 1{dash line with circle under it with vertical line in the center of circle}92"
The DOT-3AA is not specifically a steel material designation, but rather a cylinder design standard. Take a look at 49CFR178.37. The hydro static test pressure is also 5/3 times the marked service pressure. www.ecfr.gov/current/title-49/subtitle-B/chapter-I/subchapter-C/part-178/subpart-C/section-178.37
How often do cylinders actually fail testing is it like 1 out of 10, 1 out of 100. My dad gave me a older cylinder manufactured in 1941 also with a us navy stamp on it that last cert date is 66 and is rated for 1800psi and it’s a odd size to it as well it’s about 5 inches taller then my 80cf but is also skinnier then the 80cf. It has a cga540 valve on it for oxygen so what I’ve been thinking of doing is buying a transfill hose and just filling it myself from the leased tanks at my work.
the guy where i fill mine always gives me some talk about them not always able to give me a 2500psi fill and might give me only an 1800 or whatever,says it has to do with what pressure there refil tanks are holding,,is this all bs or what? how do i get 2500 every time?
could be ,but i recently went in to that shop again to refill my 55-60cf oxy cyl and those guys were not there but the guy told me that my tank says it can only be filled to 2015psi and if it allows for 10% over fill then i can get 2200psi but the tank was expired so i had to pay to get it recertified,only it did not pass for a 10% refill nor a 10 year star ,i only got 5 years certification and they only gave me around 2000psi ,,think i will try to cheat and stamp my own test hehe
How is the volume of a cylinder identified? (The cubic ft)
I'd never deal with a welding supply company that restricted the size of owner cylinders. I've got a half-dozen bottles, ranging in size from 80cf to 250 cf, I used to have a 330cf bottle, but traded it for another 250, the 330 was a little bigger than I like to move around my shop. My welding shop takes my bottles, and exchanges them for full ones, so "your" bottle changes when you bring it in. I can't imagine insisting on getting "my" bottle back, but I suppose it could be done. Frankly, I don't care what the bottle looks like, as long as it's within hydro cert, has no ownership markings, and is the same size as the one I brought it.
In canada you cannot own larger than 80cu ft
I don't either...I have to drive futher...but it's also about 1/2 price from air gas...and I don't have to pay rent.
Right👍👍👍
I'm searching for a good deal on an argon gas cylinder for my tig welder, but the prices these people here are trying to charge is utterly ridiculous😞
@@Mrdubomb well that is horrible
I just bought a 125 cf cylinder brand new from Amazon it is definately customer owned so your info is wrong
What do you mean 125 can only be rented or leased? I own a 125. With a slick neck ring
My dad owned a 125 cu/ft O2 cylinder for 30 years that was made by his friends company: Mittler Supply (RIP Tom Mittler).
Dad meticulously minted out the tank and painted it beautifully Green and Brown. He then dropped it off at Knoxville Holston gases to be filled. Jerks lost his tank and gave him some beat up, worn out rusty oxygen tank and threatened to make him lease when he is an owner... Holston gases, treat your customers better.
Strickland is where i go for all my propane needs and propane accessories,,mr Strickland sure treats me nice
i use Compressed Gas Supply(a Praxair company) here in oklahoma, they practically bend over backwards to work with me
@@ARCSTREAMS propane and propane accessories
@@Dookie_burner yesssir :)
Thanks for the explanation! It helps to see a person standing next to the cylinders to help aid in figuring out how heavy they are and how to move them around.
How can that lead seal melt at 212f when the melting point of lead is 621f? Did I miss something? 😊
It's actually a metal alloy similar to solder, not sure exactly what it it though. This is precisely the reason if you've ever taken a welding class at a trade school or community college for instance, one of the things you're taught is to never use boiling water to thaw a frozen valve or free a cylinder frozen to the ground since you could either melt safety plug or soften it enough to leak, and some cylinders, particularly larger acetylene cylinders, have a safety plug at the bottom as well as the valve assembly.
That makes more sense with the alloy. Thanks.
Thanks Nathan. I'm new to compressed gasses and I found your video quite informative and useful. Best Wishes n Blessings. Keith
I own my k tanks. Every time I take them in to be filled they try to keep them until I bring in the titles. I'm taking them in this weekend to be filled again. Yes, I'll take the titles but it is getting to be a pain after over 30 years.
They try to keep them? How long does it take for them to be filled? Do they just accuse you of stealing them or something?
@@dustjunky2000 they tell me the tanks are theirs. I don't know if they think they are going to charge me rent or what. It only takes a few minutes to fill them.
Just because your company only leases the larger cylinders does not mean that they are only leased cylinders for everybody. Where I live, you can own any cylinder, and refill any size.
This guy full of crap I have been in welding business for 50 plus years I own over 45 bottles, I have bought bottles for years it doesn't make a difference how big they are and they belong to me. The company that I have been working with to fill my bottles went broke or sold out, now all these other so-called companies will not fill my bottles, they want to trade my bottles for their bottles they can go jump in the lake, I have too much money invested in new valve and nice paint jobs on my bottles I'm not giving up my bottles for rent. I do not lease the bottles to anyone I use them for my own use. All these welding supply companies think they own everything that way they can put the screws to you and charge you all they can. In Texas by law they cannot charge you rent on the bottles unless you sign an agreement on a pick-up day and a return date. When you buy the gas in a bottle it is yours until the bottle is empty. The only way they could charge you rent if they are a rental company.
@@sherwinstaudt1881that sucks. Can't you just replace the neck rings and show proof of ownership?
@@jordananders8525I've been in a welding business a machine business and supply business since 1976. It is not a question of ownership of my bottles, all my bottles has customer-owned on them, 75/25 mix, pure Argan, oxygen, acetylene, CO2, nitrous oxide, the problem is the companies that I went to said it was too much trouble for them to fill my bottles and return them to me, so they wanted me to give them my bottles and then they would not charge me rent on their bottles and they would keep me supplied or what I need. Back in 76 we did that with a company gave them around 12 bottles 3 years later they start charging me rent but did not replace my bottles a bunch of Thieves. So shame on me once not twice. So now I have no alternative but to drive 300 miles one way to have my bottles filled. The reason for that is nobody around here will fill acetylene. All these be high-tech companies want to cut the little man out like me, just like Walmart has done the mama pop stores.
@@sherwinstaudt1881 huh. Here in utah we have Humphries that will do fill only and give you the bottle back. most other places will swap out for one with a blank neck ring if you own the bottle, and all slick necks are considered to be COCs unless the bottle itself has ownership markings. Lindie/praxair gives me slick necks if I ask. Every area is different but only doing business with places that give you slick necks might be your best bet. And for the bottles that might have been de facto stolen, small claims court maybe? Sounds like a fairly easy case.
What about 100 cf #4 cylinders for acetylene?
Thanks. I learned that the tank I bought at an estate sale was manufactured in January 1953 and was last inspected in October 1972. What is a reasonable charge for the test? Got quoted $49.95 today.
Next to the test date stamp on the tank to the right, theres another marking labeled "REE 2...." What does that label indicate?
REE means rejection elastic expansion is the retest operator if it's above that level it's means the cylinder will be bad when calculated after hydrotest.
Good video. To most people the cylinder markings read like secret code. This made sense of it all. Thanks.
Fireship1 how do you remove the safety cap?
At 5:35 there is this marking "REE 265"? What is the meaning? Thanx
the Local Praxair and Airgas told me that my tank could not be traded in because of its size it is either a 125CF or 122CF with no ownership ring, there for it is a owned cylinder not a rental and it has lasted me about 4-5 years so far, but still denying a fill because of its size is a bad business model if your tank does not have a ownership ring.
Did you ever get it filled? I am in the same situation
Rent one slightly bigger and fill you’re original thank whit it and return it back the next day that way you only pay for the gas and you can fill up your thank and not pay rental fee. But you need to buy high pressure hose 2500 psi and have the right connection for the tank, bingo.
Every one of those bottles can be customer owned.
You can buy any size cylinder. Including 300 cf.
Interesting praxair told me yesterday that I can buy up to a 300 cf cylinder to own
different company, different policies
@@brianhumphreys1660 that makes sense air gas around me said the same thing as well as browns welding supply
Amazing video!!! I wish they taught this stuff in High Schools...seems like very good common sense. God bless you sir!
Explained very comprehensibly
Great video as this is exactly what I was trying to find on YT but you are the only one who explained it for us weekend warriors that have just got our hands on a MIG Welder that uses CO2 as a shield gas.
So thanks for the fine audio and no background music that is so annoying. First Class all the way~!!!
Unless you live out west, in which case you will find all of those sizes can be customer owned. I happen to own 1 T (330cu-ft) and 3 K (220cu-ft) size cylinders.
Thank you for clarifying. We too have some customers with a few that are customer owned from years ago, but it is not the norm...
I recently purchase 2 200 cubic foot tanks out in CA.
Thank you so very much for this wonderful explanation and it really shed more light on my understanding about the sizes of and the markings on these gas cylinders.One thing that I just want to further understand is the size of a cylinder that is smaller than the 80 cu/ft and bigger than the 40 cu/ft, what size can that be.The 80 cu/ft is the Oxygen cylinder that I have and the other one that is smaller than the 80 cu/ft and bigger than the 40 cu/ft is the Acetylene .What size could that be.Thanks and I hope I will be able to get a response from you as regards this .
can you please help me with the info on mine? i am in canada where i purchased mine,i believe it's a 60cf but i dont recall,either 60 or less,anyways there is no marking on the neck,here is what is marked on the bottle
SPUN 5WH79+SCM 1{dash line with circle under it with vertical line in the center of circle}92
CTC 3A-2015
PF 11541 12(small 353) 06+star
The SPUN is just a manufacturer info, Ctc 3A-2015 is the type of steel cylinder and max pressure it can be filled to, the PF 11541 is the bottle serial #, the 12(353) 06+* is the last date of test.12 [December] manufacture or tester RIN 353 and 06 is the yea of 2006. + means it can be filled 10% over bottle pressure and * means 10 bottle shelf life befor being needed to be retested from 12/2006, so dec of 2018 is the needed test to recertifications your bottle
thank you very much for the precise info and you are correct but what about the " 1{dash line with circle under it with vertical line in the center of circle}92"
i did re test it in dec and unfortunately did not get a star or a plus rating so it will need to be re tested in another 5 years :(
@@ARCSTREAMS that is the independent cylinder inspection symbol, its put on during manufacturing.
@@baudeagle1 ty
cant ppl just fake stamp the retest themselves?
it could be done but a filler should be able to spot a fake stamp.
@@davidrimes582 not necessarily,,not like they got specially high school kids working there
The DOT-3AA is not specifically a steel material designation, but rather a cylinder design standard. Take a look at 49CFR178.37. The hydro static test pressure is also 5/3 times the marked service pressure. www.ecfr.gov/current/title-49/subtitle-B/chapter-I/subchapter-C/part-178/subpart-C/section-178.37
Good sir nice demonstratration ❤❤❤❤
This was very helpful, thank you
Thanks, you answered my questions expertly
How often do cylinders actually fail testing is it like 1 out of 10, 1 out of 100. My dad gave me a older cylinder manufactured in 1941 also with a us navy stamp on it that last cert date is 66 and is rated for 1800psi and it’s a odd size to it as well it’s about 5 inches taller then my 80cf but is also skinnier then the 80cf. It has a cga540 valve on it for oxygen so what I’ve been thinking of doing is buying a transfill hose and just filling it myself from the leased tanks at my work.
The military tanks are extra heavy wall and I would have used that to make a cannon 😂
Good to know. ty
Thanks for the information ℹ️
it was very useful to me
I know I'm alot late to the party, but what would you use a whole bottle of hydrogen for?
Tig welding
Thanks for your explanation 👍
where to find volume
Very helpful Thank you
stamp with 8-15 + means what ???
it was last certified in august of 2015 and is capable of holding 10 percent over
the guy where i fill mine always gives me some talk about them not always able to give me a 2500psi fill and might give me only an 1800 or whatever,says it has to do with what pressure there refil tanks are holding,,is this all bs or what? how do i get 2500 every time?
By far I'm no pro but I feel like they're selling you short
could be ,but i recently went in to that shop again to refill my 55-60cf oxy cyl and those guys were not there but the guy told me that my tank says it can only be filled to 2015psi and if it allows for 10% over fill then i can get 2200psi but the tank was expired so i had to pay to get it recertified,only it did not pass for a 10% refill nor a 10 year star ,i only got 5 years certification and they only gave me around 2000psi ,,think i will try to cheat and stamp my own test hehe
@@ARCSTREAMS yeah blow up the guys at airgas filling your shitty tank. awesome idea.
if it means saving money not buying a 300 buck tank then its worth it
@@ARCSTREAMS lol