Came from TOTs video. Just want to elaborate a bit on the bottle discussion for new people. Here in AZ (phoenix area) the go to for gas is called Vern Lewis welding supply. They are really cool. When I needed an additional bottle the guys at the counter told me it would be better to find one on marketplace then they’ll swap it out to avoid the lease/contract fees. So I found a 330cfm. Cost me $120 for the bottle then they swapped it for $79. They did not care about the certificate or anything else. I moved from Denver 4 years ago and the welding suppliers there would NOT touch a bottle that did not originate with them. So you’d need to buy one of their bottles to start then they will swap them out as needed for $75-100 depending on size. But to buy the bottle from them it was over $350 for a 160cfm or whatever the 48” bottle is. Best to go to your local supplier and have a discussion with them. I was anticipating filling out the credit contract and going through the lease process until they said ‘or you can buy one on marketplace, we don’t care about the certification’.
I didn't know they dealt with owner bottles! I tried going to a local metal and welding supply store that apparently handled vern lewis bottles exclusively. They said they only exchange Vern Lewis bottles. This made me believe you needed a leased bottle so they could work with you. I guess you have to go to Vern Lewis directly if you want to swamp out your owner bottle!
In 2006, I bought my Miller 251 with a 160 tank, and the unit was a demo model. The price included the tank and that gas lasted me a couple years then when I needed a refill, I upgraded to the largest tank in the video, which fit on the 251. I think I exchanged it twice since then. I lose more gas leaking out the hose and fittings by forgetting to turn the valve off, than I do using it. It is nice to have, don't use it every day and I keep my gear in good order so it lasts. Good video!
That's crazy $.85 a day just to look at the tank. I have a 330cf I never had to pay to get filled or rent for years. Now I see refill is going to be a issue with the big Dawg.
For some gasses like CO2, nitrogen and sometimes argon or oxygen, a beverage or beer supply place is often more likely to "refill while you wait" and give you your own tank back, or sell a new one. Some of those customers are folks that have pretty basement or store setups on display, etc so it's more expected. (FWIW, Argon Cold Brew Coffee tastes just about the same as Nitro Cold Brew Coffee, except more expensive. Those shops are also handy if you need food grade gas, that you might occasionally steal for welding.) Some places like Weldfabulous will also ship full tanks....80cu oxygen or argon is about $300 though.
TOT sent me over, wish I had all this info a year ago when I got an oxy/acetylene outfit from my kids. The fellow at the local gas supply was, thankfully, patient with my questions. You got them all covered in this one vid!
If you look on older Linde oxygen tanks, you might find a 4 square mark on tanks that were made prior to 1945. The mark at one time was a swastika and when the war ended a box stamp was used to hide the arms, making it look like 4 boxes. I once saw an 80cf oxygen tank with an original test date of 1896 that had an unblemished iron cross on it. 100% CO2 tank pressure is around 800 PSi because it is stored as a liquid that sublimes as it is drawn out of the tank, a 50 lb CO2 tank will typically have about 400cf in them. 100% CO2 results in much more spatter with the mig process.
>>100% CO2 tank pressure is around 800 PSi because >it is stored as a liquid that sublimes as it is drawn out of the tank, 100% CO2 results in much more spatter with the mig process
@@ZILAwelds The electronics have come a long way, CO2 has a broader depth of penetration, argon puts a spike at the bottom. Recheck your tank pressure gauge, the dial may say 1800 max, but the gas in the bottle shouldn't get over around 860. Acetylene is usually about 250 with a 300 psi gauge. The 'red line' at 15 psi is there to remind people that acetylene becomes unstable at 22 psi. At the end of WW2 the Germans were dropping WTL size acetylene cylinders to supplement their lack of incendiary bombs, they would explode on impact with the ground. I started working at Miller Electric in 1982.
@@richspillman4191 I just make my way out into the shop, 3A1800 .... that is an 1800 PSI tank ... the exact 100% co2 that was in the video ... also the regulator reads tank pressure currently at 1300 psi (for what that is worth ... accuracy and all). I have a smaller 55cu ft .. that says 1800 as well ... and the needle one the gauge reads 1750psi ....
@@ZILAwelds That's what the tank is rated, the gas inside and the liquid are around 800, "CO2 Tank Safety Concerns CO2 cylinder pressure is about 860 psi at normal room temperature. Typical CO2 cylinders store about 50 lbs. of liquid CO2. Two pounds of liquid CO2 expands to about 20 cubic feet of gaseous CO2 at atmospheric pressure, or expands at a rate of 535:1.Oct 25, 2023" "How many PSI is a 20lb CO2 tank? CO2 cylinder is filled with liquid CO2 by weight. At the time of fill the temperature of the charge is extremely cold and the pressure is around 100 psi. When a fully charged 20 lb. CO2 cylinder, 68% full by water capacity, warms up to room temperature (70 oF), the pressure inside the cylinder increases to 837 psi."
@@ZILAwelds If you were to open your valve with no regulator on a co2 tank, the contents would go from a liquid state to a solid (Dry ice) and it could take hours of not days to get the ice ball out of the tank. There is super critical co2 as well as super critical helium, it's physics, I've been doing this for 40 years, metallurgy, gases, processes, there is always another way to skin a cat.
I have several welding machines.- MIG, IGBT stick, Lincoln Tombstone AC only (1970 era), and a couple of gas torch sets. but I'm not a welder. I have my own oxygen, acetylene, CO2, and Helium tanks. I don't rent because I use so little gas I'd pay for a tank in rent before emptying the tank. And yes, when I do go in for a refill of *my* tank, I walk out with a different *my* tank. 😄
Do you know why there is a circle around the 70 amp setting on your tombstone? That is the 100% duty cycle setting used for pipe thawing. I had a customer that would thaw pipes for people in the mountains and one lady refused to pay, I think it was $50.00, he yelled out to his helper "Reverse the polarity and freeze 'em back up!" the lady paid...
People if you are new to welding a vital thing most people don’t tell you about gas tanks is most gas supply require you to have a pickup truck. They will not allow you to carry the tank inside of a car or suv. If by some chance the gas supplier does fill it, they make you sign a wavier of liability. It is very dangerous for a tank to be inside the vehicle. Also, you should always strap your tank to the truck do not let them roll around. If you don’t have a truck most gas suppliers offer delivery for a fee.
Helium is rare in Europe, here it comes from oil wells. Before the war, Germany wanted to buy from usa, but were refused, as it was a strategic material. Remember Rockey & Bullwinkle cartoon? The bad guys were always trying to remove "Mount Flatmore" from usa, the floating mountain. Was this the same theme?
I bought a 100% argon tank, then started to learn about CO2/argon mixes. Instead of replacing my tank with a mix, can I blend them together by adding 4 cfm of CO2 to 16 cfm of argon? Is there an advantage to dial-type flow meters versus ones with a ball in a clear column? Thanks!
>> I bought a 100% argon tank, then started to learn about CO2/argon mixes. > Instead of replacing my tank with a mix, can I blend them together by adding 4 cfm of CO2 to 16 cfm of argon?Is there an advantage to dial-type flow meters versus ones with a ball in a clear column?
the cost varies regionally ... here in the Midwest (Chicago, Milwaukee metro area) its about $50-$60 if you have a "reasonable" gas distributor ... some guys try to get you for $80 .... I have heard that in California or New York people pay well over $100 sometimes as much as $150 per fill (argon that is not helium .... helium is $400+ per fill anyway .... and I have talked to guys in Hawaii and they pay $400 for an argon fill if they "import" it themselves if they buy it locally on the island it can be as much as $1000 per cylinder depending on the size ....
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amzn.to/3TuvvEG 80 cu ft tank
I came here after seeing This Old Tony's video. I don't know very much about welding, but this has helped demystify some of it to me. Thanks!
Me too
Welcome aboard!
Which TOT video sent you to this one? I'm looking for that video.
Thanks for putting this together Pete!!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Came from TOTs video. Just want to elaborate a bit on the bottle discussion for new people. Here in AZ (phoenix area) the go to for gas is called Vern Lewis welding supply. They are really cool. When I needed an additional bottle the guys at the counter told me it would be better to find one on marketplace then they’ll swap it out to avoid the lease/contract fees. So I found a 330cfm. Cost me $120 for the bottle then they swapped it for $79. They did not care about the certificate or anything else. I moved from Denver 4 years ago and the welding suppliers there would NOT touch a bottle that did not originate with them. So you’d need to buy one of their bottles to start then they will swap them out as needed for $75-100 depending on size. But to buy the bottle from them it was over $350 for a 160cfm or whatever the 48” bottle is. Best to go to your local supplier and have a discussion with them. I was anticipating filling out the credit contract and going through the lease process until they said ‘or you can buy one on marketplace, we don’t care about the certification’.
I didn't know they dealt with owner bottles! I tried going to a local metal and welding supply store that apparently handled vern lewis bottles exclusively. They said they only exchange Vern Lewis bottles. This made me believe you needed a leased bottle so they could work with you. I guess you have to go to Vern Lewis directly if you want to swamp out your owner bottle!
In 2006, I bought my Miller 251 with a 160 tank, and the unit was a demo model. The price included the tank and that gas lasted me a couple years then when I needed a refill, I upgraded to the largest tank in the video, which fit on the 251. I think I exchanged it twice since then. I lose more gas leaking out the hose and fittings by forgetting to turn the valve off, than I do using it. It is nice to have, don't use it every day and I keep my gear in good order so it lasts. Good video!
That's crazy $.85 a day just to look at the tank. I have a 330cf I never had to pay to get filled or rent for years. Now I see refill is going to be a issue with the big Dawg.
For some gasses like CO2, nitrogen and sometimes argon or oxygen, a beverage or beer supply place is often more likely to "refill while you wait" and give you your own tank back, or sell a new one. Some of those customers are folks that have pretty basement or store setups on display, etc so it's more expected. (FWIW, Argon Cold Brew Coffee tastes just about the same as Nitro Cold Brew Coffee, except more expensive. Those shops are also handy if you need food grade gas, that you might occasionally steal for welding.) Some places like Weldfabulous will also ship full tanks....80cu oxygen or argon is about $300 though.
TOT sent me over, wish I had all this info a year ago when I got an oxy/acetylene outfit from my kids. The fellow at the local gas supply was, thankfully, patient with my questions. You got them all covered in this one vid!
Thanks Pete for the quick rundown.
If you look on older Linde oxygen tanks, you might find a 4 square mark on tanks that were made prior to 1945. The mark at one time was a swastika and when the war ended a box stamp was used to hide the arms, making it look like 4 boxes. I once saw an 80cf oxygen tank with an original test date of 1896 that had an unblemished iron cross on it. 100% CO2 tank pressure is around 800 PSi because it is stored as a liquid that sublimes as it is drawn out of the tank, a 50 lb CO2 tank will typically have about 400cf in them. 100% CO2 results in much more spatter with the mig process.
>>100% CO2 tank pressure is around 800 PSi because >it is stored as a liquid that sublimes as it is drawn out of the tank, 100% CO2 results in much more spatter with the mig process
@@ZILAwelds The electronics have come a long way, CO2 has a broader depth of penetration, argon puts a spike at the bottom. Recheck your tank pressure gauge, the dial may say 1800 max, but the gas in the bottle shouldn't get over around 860. Acetylene is usually about 250 with a 300 psi gauge. The 'red line' at 15 psi is there to remind people that acetylene becomes unstable at 22 psi. At the end of WW2 the Germans were dropping WTL size acetylene cylinders to supplement their lack of incendiary bombs, they would explode on impact with the ground. I started working at Miller Electric in 1982.
@@richspillman4191 I just make my way out into the shop, 3A1800 .... that is an 1800 PSI tank ... the exact 100% co2 that was in the video ... also the regulator reads tank pressure currently at 1300 psi (for what that is worth ... accuracy and all). I have a smaller 55cu ft .. that says 1800 as well ... and the needle one the gauge reads 1750psi ....
@@ZILAwelds That's what the tank is rated, the gas inside and the liquid are around 800,
"CO2 Tank Safety Concerns
CO2 cylinder pressure is about 860 psi at normal room temperature. Typical CO2 cylinders store about 50 lbs. of liquid CO2. Two pounds of liquid CO2 expands to about 20 cubic feet of gaseous CO2 at atmospheric pressure, or expands at a rate of 535:1.Oct 25, 2023"
"How many PSI is a 20lb CO2 tank?
CO2 cylinder is filled with liquid CO2 by weight. At the time of fill the temperature of the charge is extremely cold and the pressure is around 100 psi. When a fully charged 20 lb. CO2 cylinder, 68% full by water capacity, warms up to room temperature (70 oF), the pressure inside the cylinder increases to 837 psi."
@@ZILAwelds If you were to open your valve with no regulator on a co2 tank, the contents would go from a liquid state to a solid (Dry ice) and it could take hours of not days to get the ice ball out of the tank. There is super critical co2 as well as super critical helium, it's physics, I've been doing this for 40 years, metallurgy, gases, processes, there is always another way to skin a cat.
Nice overview! 👍
Thanks! 👍
I have several welding machines.- MIG, IGBT stick, Lincoln Tombstone AC only (1970 era), and a couple of gas torch sets. but I'm not a welder. I have my own oxygen, acetylene, CO2, and Helium tanks. I don't rent because I use so little gas I'd pay for a tank in rent before emptying the tank. And yes, when I do go in for a refill of *my* tank, I walk out with a different *my* tank. 😄
Do you know why there is a circle around the 70 amp setting on your tombstone? That is the 100% duty cycle setting used for pipe thawing. I had a customer that would thaw pipes for people in the mountains and one lady refused to pay, I think it was $50.00, he yelled out to his helper "Reverse the polarity and freeze 'em back up!" the lady paid...
@@richspillman4191 _Reverse the polarity and freeze 'em back up!_
Fortunately, she didn't understand how AC power works. 😅
That was great ! I never remember all that stuff when I get set up for a project .Thank You .Very helpful !
Thanks man all the information I needed is here
You’re welcome! I’m glad it helped you out.
Always learn good stuff from you Peter!
My supplier always gets out330s at 2500. Gives us a tad bit more . Love it
Thank you for your time
when your R is Gone, it is time to get more....
love my Gas tanks......cheers my friend, Paul in Florida
People if you are new to welding a vital thing most people don’t tell you about gas tanks is most gas supply require you to have a pickup truck. They will not allow you to carry the tank inside of a car or suv. If by some chance the gas supplier does fill it, they make you sign a wavier of liability. It is very dangerous for a tank to be inside the vehicle. Also, you should always strap your tank to the truck do not let them roll around. If you don’t have a truck most gas suppliers offer delivery for a fee.
Iam use to the big bottles at work & was kinda thrown off by how quick the smaller bottles burn up
20 cubic feet an hour, 80 cf tank, less 20% residual, about 3 hours of welding.
Thanks for the video. Lots of information.
Helium is rare in Europe, here it comes from oil wells. Before the war, Germany wanted to buy from usa, but were refused, as it was a strategic material. Remember Rockey & Bullwinkle cartoon? The bad guys were always trying to remove "Mount Flatmore" from usa, the floating mountain. Was this the same theme?
Awesome video Great work!
I bought a 100% argon tank, then started to learn about CO2/argon mixes. Instead of replacing my tank with a mix, can I blend them together by adding 4 cfm of CO2 to 16 cfm of argon?
Is there an advantage to dial-type flow meters versus ones with a ball in a clear column?
Thanks!
>> I bought a 100% argon tank, then started to learn about CO2/argon mixes. > Instead of replacing my tank with a mix, can I blend them together by adding 4 cfm of CO2 to 16 cfm of argon?Is there an advantage to dial-type flow meters versus ones with a ball in a clear column?
This Old Tony sent me.
Good info! Thanks!
I had no idea about any of that. I was surprised at the cost to refill; I expected more. I guess at 85 cents a day that adds up as well.
the cost varies regionally ... here in the Midwest (Chicago, Milwaukee metro area) its about $50-$60 if you have a "reasonable" gas distributor ... some guys try to get you for $80 .... I have heard that in California or New York people pay well over $100 sometimes as much as $150 per fill (argon that is not helium .... helium is $400+ per fill anyway .... and I have talked to guys in Hawaii and they pay $400 for an argon fill if they "import" it themselves if they buy it locally on the island it can be as much as $1000 per cylinder depending on the size ....
Interesting. Thanks.
very informative......spot on info......
thanks !
awesome, tank you!
TOT linked you so I subscribed liked the video!
thanks
Errr, my 80cu tank cost me $300... 😂
Huh. Allegedly a 125cf is ~70lb when full... Maybe I stick with my 80cf. LOL
Why am I unsubscribed from @zila?
Because of the deep state 😂…. No idea
ToT sent me.