Agreed, I’ve also noticed that most of the Earth Lanterns generally have the same background (military or law enforcement). Kyle was a breath of fresh air at the time.
I always thought the Green Lantern Corps were a combination of police officers/ soldiers on a cosmic level. This video however, makes me reconsider that. Thank you. It's greatly appreciated!
I suppose the saving grace is that in Green Lantern, the one considered the best by everyone was taken out by a rookie who realized he was abusing his power and stood up to him. A message that should really resonate right now. Not to mention the times the Lanterns stood up to the Guardians who make the rules because the rules were wrong. Green Lantern is more about what cops should be. Even lethal force was addressed in the recent Darkstar story.
That Darkstar story was infuriating. "Darkstars Rising" over in Hal Jordan and the Green Lantern Corps focused on police brutality without doing the topic any justice at all. The story takes the stance that everything's ok as long as you don't kill anybody, which is an irresponsible perspective that gives a free pass to anything bad the Corps has been guilty of doing, because at least they're not as extreme as the Darkstars. The entire concept of police brutality was assigned to the villains of the story, and the entire arc was the Green Lanterns saying the exact opposite of what the Darkstars said, until the Darkstars just lost and went away. The reason I want to see a non-GLC entity become a militarized police force and STAY is because that's the only way to actually talk about the fact that the problems with law enforcement are systemic, they're not a villain that can be fought and won in six issues. That's why that Darkstars story failed so hard, all it did was bring the whole idea down to the level of schlocky spectacle.
I'm really glad you made this video. Green Lantern has been my favorite superhero since I was 9 years old, but I only recently read the entirety of the Geoff Johns run. I love this run, it's actually probably my favorite, but it really bothered me because it was so pro-army and pro-police. There's no reason Green Lantern should be that way. I love GL for the world building, the characters, and the infinite stories that can be told because of it's rich mythology. I really hope we can get away from the pro-police message especially when such excessive force is horrifyingly used in real life.
Not once have I ever considered the Green Lantern Corp as intergalactic police. I was always of the mindset of them being chosen to be protectors for each Lanterns' individual world and neighboring worlds to keep galactic threats at bay.
@@comebacksarecool2834 I'm not going to go into the whole "defund the police" or arguments about police brutality as to avoid a political debate. But even barring all those arguments, a legitimate police force is given it's authority to use force by a legitimate government. That's why I'll stop when pulled over by a police officer and run away when confronted by a random dude with a gun. As a Canandian, I voted for my government, whether I liked the results or not at least it's legitimate. But who voted or even accepted the Gardians of the Unverse as government? They go on planets that already have government, or chose not to have one. Those planets may have their own laws, who are the Gardians of the Universe to send police with the most powerful weapon in the universe and impose their own laws? The LAPD police is good in L.A. It has no place in Paris.
I also have always hated the cops thing even before current events..... I would have preferred them as ambassadors who promote unity in the universe or something
I agree. I can’t stand the cop metaphor for the Corps. They should be knights errant, ranging their sectors to be helpful and protective, not enforcing arbitrary laws.
This is an excellent and timely video, you articulate many feelings I've been having about the Lanterns for a few years now. I love these characters, but I stopped buying Lantern comics some way in to DC Rebirth, as it was starting to feel like Copaganda. I like the way you discussed the fact that they're often celebrated BECAUSE they apply such disproportionate force, something I hadn't even really considered. Honestly, I truly believe DC need to address and change this, but highly doubt they will. I'm new to your channel, but I really like your work so far. Would you be ok if I shared this video to the DC Comics subreddit? I ask because it's a pretty mixed crowd there and I don't want to bring you any unwanted attention.
Thank you for the kind words. Sometimes it can be tough to navigate your own feelings about the things you're a fan of. And by all means, show the video to anyone you want. Not everyone will agree with what I have to say, but that's no reason not to say it, ya know?
Just before Morrison released issue 1 I read that this series would focus more heavily on the "cop" side of it and I was really excited, but that proved to be totally false. I like some real world issues in comics but someone saying Green Lives Matter would be too much😄 You do have some good points that they dont actually follow any type of police or military rules as far as earth rules go.
Its interesting how things have changed with the 'established' corp now being a definitivley negative force, lining it up better with what you would expect. I can only hope that when the dust settles, we go back to a more classic interpretation with a more 'free agent' style.
At this point, I'm kind of expecting them to start over from scratch and build up very slowly over time. All of the Earth Lanterns, plus the most popular alien GLs.
I kind of viewed synestro and the yellow lantern a little like black Adam. Yes they make bad decisions but as a general rule they will do anything to protect their people. Admittedly I'm very new to green lantern
No you're right, that's the interesting thing about antagonists like Sinestro and Black Adam and Magento...they live in a gray area, and exploring them long term is really interesting. Sinestro especially, because he'll do anything to promote order, but believes completely that order can only be achieved by doing things his way. He's not a super villain, but he'll do whatever he needs to achieve his goals, including building an army of people who may or may not see things the way he does, which can lead to disastrous results.
I kind of agree with him Like think about your suppose to be an intergalactic police force but your bosses are the biggest war criminals in the universe Green lanterns should just be a bunch of random people from around the galaxy who were chosen by a ring to protect their planet/solar system And the guardian should just be an alien race that almost went extinct because they didn’t have any heroes so they made some so other planets would have to go through what they did And Oa it’s just a planet made by the guardians to help there lanterns with anything they need like housing, repairs to there rings, psychological help, etc…. And no prison which I agree make no sense shouldn’t they be in a prison controlled by the planet that the criminal committed the crime on
I’m fine with SOME cop symbolism I guess, like I never rlly focus too hard on the police aspects of green lanterns tho it’s hard to ignore with the phrase “I’m a cop” being around so much in recent GL comic runs, and it’s true the guardians have done some super sketchy stuff. I guess I never dwelled much on it being anything more than a force of galactic defenders locking up the bad guys but Yh perhaps depolicing them a bit wouldn’t hurt, perhaps show some more of them working with the local governments of worlds to resolve issues instead of just being a huge untouchable force?
The lantern core can do so much more with there Potential I don’t mind some cop elements but like you said in the video I want them to lean into more out there concepts for example flying through space and finding a dead planet then to find out it’s one big nesting ground for some weird aliens and the core goes in to save the planet or sometimes down to earth showing the rest of the world that they are the good guys who are superheroes and not the yellow lanterns
I have to say that i feel Johns did the gls a disservice by turning them into an army. Take John Stewart - during the 'mosaic' era with Gerard Jones at the helm - he was a deep, super intelligent, mature and cultured architect who had a small stint in the military. Johns - 'yeah, all that but mostly he just shoots people from far away'. A serious devolution of character. Going further back, i'm pretty sure the first time they ever got the entire corps together in army form was a good 20 years (in the GLC mini series in '83, i think) after the conception of the GLs as a group. Your comments on the the potential immorality of Hal's actions make me think - did he learn nothing from Ollie in the 70's at all!?!
John got the military background because of the JL cartoon and Geoff made it Canon when he took over GL. I prefer the architect backstory because it is more creative, like Kyle being an artist. I would not say Stewart has completely devolved. He was very cocky and hot headed when he started out and he matured and became more serious after planet Xanshi blew up.
Just now viewing this video. Although Johns did get Stewart’s military background from the Justice League animated series he is the one who turned the whole GL Corps into a military. Before he came onboard, the GL Corps served as a peace-keeping organization and, in the 1960’s, solved problems while bringing as little harm to others as possible. Their rings even prevented them from bringing extreme harm to others (which is why Jack Chance reverted to using his guns in the 90’s. Guy’s violent tendencies were the reason the other GL’s saw him as unhinged. There have been a limited number of stories showing the Guardians answering to higher authorities, but it’s definitely an angle that should be explored more (and has, to a degree, in Thorne’s brief run on GL). But for the longest time, the rings, as programmed by the Guardians, held the GL Corps members to extremely high standards of morality. It’s that aspect that the modern run of the comics have diverted away from in an effort to make the characters and stories seem interesting when all along they just needed some more clever writing.
Batman is a supergenious high tech billionaire who beets up poor people and the mentally ill to deal with his selfish personal issues when he has healthier and more efficient ways to clean up his city that he arguably never actually is trying to cleanup. Superman has access to powers and advanced technology that Batman and Lex will never fully understand to solve all the world's problems but instead chooses to not use it to do things like cure cancer. He also could save a lot of lives if he put Lex in a Kryptonian prison as apposed to one he can leave whenever he chooses. Also Superman was made a law enforcement officer by the mayor at one point and it fit his character Also although there are bad Police like their are bad Lanterns many are the closest we have to real superheroes who put their lives on the line and run toward the dangers that sometimes no one is physically or mentally equipped to face. That's why although their is a very loud and powerful minority against the police most of the country likes having them around. Also it makes sense in sciencefiction that alien Oan laws and concepts of judicial/justice systems and concepts would be different then ours. Also the Lanterns are spread out very thin and deal with cosmic level death threats. They are also limited in their supply of good recruits to take on the job. This explains why there would be leniency out of nessecity from the Oans perspective if they even see an issue with the concept of excessive force to begin with. Considering the possibility of their moral values being the same as earthlings westerners who do have a problem with it is probably unlikely given that most societies don't in real life. There is an audience for wild west space cops. And that makes them somewhat unique. GI Joe is a superhero US military. Also the Avengers work for the US government since I think the 70's.
In one superman story he tried using his technology to solve cancer and it didnt work. He was trying to be more than a super strong hero. In another story Lex actually cured cancer but took it back because he said killing superman is more important
@@Ryguy0707 I think I remember Lex doing that. It doesn't make sense for Superman to not be able to do better though. His mental powers that allow him to use his own superpowers alone would make him have a much higher IQ then Lex and Batman put together. Also his tech is more advanced and he can see what's going on with your body better then anyone else can. Theoretically with his visions alone he could identify every cancer cell and destroy them. Similar to what he did to Manchester Black.
@azuresaiyan9005 There are radically different versions of Batman from a murderer based on the Shadow to a special type of government officer to a arguably excessive violent vigilante who has a no kill rule because he feels once he starts he isn't sure it would stop. Regardless of the version my assessment based on his reasons, skills, resources, and the kinds of criminals he faces on a regular basis would be accurate.
I get where you're coming from but I think the corps dosen't have to go through a reform in its concept just to evoid being police propaganda becuse the concept already is more of a leagion of superheros that can be used to explore policy issues sometimes, the problem is that some wrinters fell the need to push the SpAcE c0pS ideia for no reason *coff like grant morison coff* it also might just be by bias talking
I think the Legion is closer to the Justice League International, or the 2013 Justice League of America: a team of rag tag heroes who have to answer directly to the government. The GLC plays with that idea sometimes, as they'll go out of their way not to interfere with local matters ala Star Trek, but they still operate with a level of autonomy that these other groups don't. Truthfully, I'd love it if they were more like the Legion, but for that to happen the GLC and Guardians would have to be beholden to other groups far more than they are.
@@MosaicComics I’m home sick this week, and just getting back into comics as I mentioned elsewhere, and I’ve binged almost all of your stuff the last few days. Really helpful. 🙂
@@MosaicComics I’m getting GL as mentioned, and the 1st East of West HC this week. I also just read Y: The Last Man TP 1, and The Last Siege this week already. Mostly grabbing some omnibuses & TPs to dive in and catch up - HoX/PoX, some Daredevil, Sandman - and that’ll keep me busy for a while. It’s really confusing to navigate, as a beginner, the whole mess of editions and what’s in/out of print, etc. That’d be something that could make your videos even better: when you go deep on a character, list out some of the collected editions that people like me can grab.
So in summary. If Green Lanterns are cops then what they do is bad but if they identify as superheroes then it automatically justifies everything? This makes no sense
@MosaicComics in a real-life circumstance. Yes, law enforcement acting in such ways is bad. But if we are gonna sit here and complain about the moral complications of Green Lanterns being flawed cops then why aren't we complaining about the fact that vigilantism is a crime and many superheroes kill. I just don't see how this is a big deal because at the end of the day, it's fiction. That's why we don't care when our heroes commit crimes like vigilantism or breaking and entering. And when they make a major mistake, instead of wanting them arrested like we would if they had made that same mistake in our world, we don't mind because it made the story interesting. Are we not allowed to have any stories about law enforcement? What about Robo-Cop or the TV series Blue Blood or the TV series Gotham? Or pick any movie with cops in it. What about Jim Gordon? He often does things that wouldn't be considered "by the book" methods. I'm just wondering why we're complaining about Green Lanterns being flawed cops and yet ignoring flawed superheroes and other movies/TV with flawed cops in them as well.
Yeah that’s exactly what he said lol. And saying that sinestro corp should be the police force is really just indicative of the opinion that all cops are bad. This is not what we need to teach children. The police need reform, not to be completely demonized. That would be very short sighted
I always thought it added to it as it made sense to have laws governing them as a group of vigilantes would not really care so them being cops makes the no killing thing make sense plus them being cops could be seen as representing a side not often done so or done well because not all cops are terrible people but people even now like to act like that's the case also if any thing the gardins would be the villains for trying to impose their law which happens in the third army storyline
I get the view, but the problem which others are showing is that just like how your saying the lanterns adopting the idea of the police is a problem, isn't the idea that all cops and law enforcement are bad? On the concept of excessive force? Of course they do, look at who they fight. They inspired me to become law enforcement and I help children everyday.
The point is that this isn't black and white, it's not as simple as saying law enforcement is 100% good or 100% bad, but that it's got a mix of everything, it's the full range, and any long-form story following members of law enforcement should explore that. And that since the impulse is to present the Green Lanterns as superheroes who always do the right thing, they're not actually a good representation/exploration of law enforcement, because it pretends that the complicated nature of this topic doesn't exist.
@@MosaicComics I get that, but they do. Sinestro himself being a big part of it. They also explore the more totalitarian interpretations. Like the last arc in Vendittis run. I think the space cop thing works well for it because they do actually explore that side well, granted, different authors will be either more grand or more grounded. There have been quite a few instances of the "good cop gone bad" story.
They are literally the intergalactic police force in which they are powered by will, liberal logic is applying AMERICAN politics, you can hate American police but to think all police are like the USA is nothing but stupidity
@@dragb9284sinestro disproves your point tho, as soon as sinestro started acting out of line and went into fear the opposite of will they barred his ass
I am halfway into the video but i cannot watch more. Green lanterns were always supposed to be cops and superheroes in general were modeled after cops back in the gold and silver ages. Sorry but you don't know what you're talking about. Geoff johns in his run proved that the only solution to a corrupt police force lead by corrupt people (the guardians) is a not corrupted police force lead by righteous people (hal jordan). The problem is not the institution of a police force in general, the problem is a corrupted police force. Look how james Gordon gives an example of what a cop should be. You also said that they were militaristic. In reality they are as militaristic as they should be. Those are the people that go against the sinestro corp. They should be prepared. I sense personal political views and prejudices shifting your vision of what the corp is.
Clearly the only way to solve policing is more policing, also the gcpd is the worst example you could use as a point in favor of cops, literally all of them are corrupt besides renee and jim
Wow.. a truly thoughtful video 👏 I never truly thought about how they're a systematic police force working with other vigilantees (Batman, Green Arrow, etc) and the parrallels. I saw it but never really acknowledged how their accountability and impact isnt held to the same degree as our police. ALSO, it makes you wonder why they're never used as an example or allegory for how we would like police force or military to be, especially now. They're stories could be used to show how policing COULD be instead of just the Cowboy Super cop brutality. Speaking of cops working with vigilantes, it kinda makes you wonder. Is superman a vigilante or police force 🤔 and if so its essentially the same as a cop from one city working with a vigilante from another, yet its surprising the U.S gov in DC comics doesnt have any qualms with that. Fact, MOST of the justice league is comprised vigilantees yet they often work in conjunction with the government and even galactic governments dont have qualms with vigilantes or rogues of the policing systems from the.planets they govern are working alongside their officers with no authority from the local government
Thank you! I think Superman is the one exception I'm always willing to make, since his whole deal is that he's spent a lifetime being everyone's best friend and saving absolutely everyone from everything. Superman is unimaginably trustworthy, and the whole DCU knows it. Beyond that, I actually really like the ongoing idea of governments trying to control superheroes by running their own officially sanctioned teams, like the Suicide Squad, and every now and then you'll get a Justice League that's formed by/answers to either the United States government or the United Nations. Or you'll just do what Russia did and build an army of Rocket Reds, which are basically Iron Man. And I'll always have a soft spot for the old days of Checkmate, the secret spy organization set up to monitor superheroes just in case they needed to be stopped.
@@MosaicComics I agree with you about Superman, I just feel like if the cops or gov were asked, they would never refer to him as a vigilante. As opposed to Batman and Spider-man, where thats like, their focus I guess? Also, part of the reason why both of them became vigilantes. Which would be why some of their antagonists are police officers where as Superman's status quo is him helping the cops and disconnected from his becoming a superhero. (Then again he was arguably super b4 but not a hero) Anywhoo, love your channel keep up the good work, cant wait to see more from you
They aren't cops, they are private security and enforcers for the Guardians. They are more Para-military army or actual army for Guardians. They can call themselves cops, but that is only if you consider the Guardians the Government of the Universe. I get your point, but what they say they are doesn't make it so. Sinestro is a perfect example of what the Corps are, bullies. I still like GL (Hal) better than any other super hero, but I did give them a second thought. They want the status quo, that is what they fight for...most of the time its for the better, not always-Death of Krypton.
This is a weird video for me. I don't disagree with the main premise, not entirely. But then when you went on your comments about how it's usually justified because Superheroes work outside the law just made me really disagree. No superhero ever truly tries to work within the law, so I don't think it makes their actions any better, they DECIDED to take the law in their own hands and usually do already impose their will unilaterally without anything other than token resistance from the local authorities. The Green Lantern Corps isn't some exception that makes the tropes worse because they are the law, because most Superheros already ARE the law within their own books, the cops are usually supporting them anyway at least somewhat. Honestly the only series I've seen that has the Superheroes work within the law is the Batman White Knight Universe. Thinking about it that because they're vigilantes it's ok does not make it better. What makes it better is that they're superheroes who usually fight supercrime. Batman would be terrifying in the real world, but he's usually fighting the Joker, who's murdered MILLIONS, so I don't give a fuck if Batman ends up using excessive force and breaks his spine to capture him. So I don't really see the GLC as inherently worse than the fucked up morality of any other superhero story, if you wanna view it in a realistic context. Edit: Ok, further into the video now, and I have more things I'm taking issue with. The idea to make the Sinestro Corps the police force of the universe has a lot of unfortunate implications strapped to it. If you make the Sinestro Corps cops then you're just framing cops, all of them, every single one, as villains, that's just what the implication is there. Yes there have been good Yellow Lanterns before I guess, but they're first and foremost an organization full of just not even people who like take things too far sometimes, but like a lot of them are literal genocidal maniacs. The metaphor at that point just isn't a good one, despite the fact that a police force being powered by people who use fear is thematically pretty solid. It gets worse when you think about the Green Lanterns new role in it, they're not the police anymore, but they're still taking the law into their own hands, they're still vigilantes. Vigilantes who have the same exact weaponry as the new police force and regularly get into fights with them. Your idea to get rid of some unfortunate implications just spawned one just as bad if not worse. The idea of armed vigilantes getting into shootouts with the police and that being the unequivocal good guys with little to no moral ambiguity among their numbers is IMO a much more unfortunate implication than an exaggerated version of a police force who usually mainly fights genocidal maniacs sometimes taking it too far. That's not to say that things should stay as they are, or that your idea was inherently bad. There are still ways to mitigate the cop implications (Though I'm not sure if you can get rid of them completely) and your idea could work really well in an elseworld of some kind, just not in mainline continuity when the Yellow Lanterns already have so much history.
I probably should have phrased it better, because what I was trying to get at with the Spider-Man example is that vigilantism isn't actually acceptable, but we're used to thinking about it in a positive light because the story puts us into the mind of the person doing it, tells us their intentions are pure, and the whole narrative is framed around them doing the right thing for the right reasons. We accept Spider-Man's actions as being good because everything about Spider-Man's presentation frames it that way. The reason I picked the Sinestro Corps is because they're not full-on bad, but they do bad things working toward a good result. Between the Cullen Bunn Sinestro series, and the time when Soranik was their leader, we've seen the Sinestro Corps change into a morally grey force that gets the job done and is loved by a lot of the people they protect. That's likely not true anymore, and I assume that the next time they show up they'll be more like their original state during the Sinestro Corps War, but for a while there the entire Corps was becoming more like Sinestro himself: someone who believes in law and order, but took things too far. Though I have to say, your last point there is a GREAT one that I hadn't thought about at all...shifting the authority away from the GLC would effectively make them the biggest armed militia in the universe, fighting against the police, which would cause just as many problems as the ones I want them to avoid. What's funny is I didn't even think about it, because once again, I just accepted the actions of super heroes.
@@MosaicComics First of all, just wanna say that I think it's really cool how you read and responded to a comment that's not only pretty fucking long but one that criticizes the video so heavily, definitely not something all creators would do. Anyway, yeah, I totally understand what you meant when you talked about the Spider-man example, it just kinda made me think about what you were saying and how much I disagreed personally about that being the main thing that makes them more palatable, I totally understand that knowing the characters intimately definitely helps stomach the strange morality of Superhero comics. As for the Sinestro Corps, I read and immensely enjoyed the Venditti run, so I totally know what you mean about them being a bit more morally grey and I absolutely accepted it there, but I feel like it wouldn't be enough if you tried to make them a critique of the police directly, it's a really fine line to walk. Maybe I have less of an objection to that part of the idea in general, and more of a worry that VERY few comic writers would be able to both be able to address their history and not just sweep it under the rug while also making people in the organization sympathetic enough to truly get the moral complexity and respect that the situation would need. As for the last point, yeah, that was one of the first things I thought of personally. I think the best way to not completely get rid of, but at least mitigate the implications of the GLC would be to give them less power, to make them more beholden to the local authorities of whatever planet they're helping at the time. Make it so the GLC hold back a bit more so as to not step on the toes of the local authorities. With each planet having their own laws and customs you could examine many different parts of policing that way, without making the GLC have complete authority to do whatever they want, giving them more accountability to entities other than themselves so their actions have actual consequences I think would go a long way to temper their image as a unilateral police force. For example, you could have a planet where lethal force is authorized and typically encouraged, and you could have the Lantern of the story of course catch them without lethal force despite it being an option no one would look down on them for. And then you could have the local authorities either admire their restraint and question their methods, or they could still execute the criminal anyway. You could also have the introductory arc to that be a really interesting story of political entities throughout the universe confronting the Lanterns on them not being held accountable to anyone, and to have the Corps question who gave them the authority to decide that they were fit to police the universe.
@@Fatboyftw32 That's a really cool idea. There's a lot of places they could go with it that could challenge the structure of the GLC in interesting ways. Hell, what if some sectors would only agree to accept the authority of the Corps if they got to elect their Green Lantern? The problem is these ideas stray far enough away from the norm that the best we could probably hope for is one really good run by a writer who gets it, before someone new comes on and either gets it wrong or gets rid of the concept, taking things back to the more classic interpretation. Sometimes I feel like a lot of what I want to see from writers now is a rejection of the early Silver Age, or in some cases the Golden Age, and not because I think any of that material is necessarily bad...it's just that times are different, and those differences open up a lot of doors for new stories exploring interesting directions that nobody thought to go in before. ...and keep the long comments coming. I wouldn't make these videos at all if I didn't want to engage people in conversation. And if that can help me deepen and evolve my understanding of a topic, even better.
@@MosaicComics Oh, I hadn't thought about that, about the sectors electing a Green Lantern, that's really cool. And yeah, I totally agree that I couldn't see these ideas lasting long, if they really wanted to examine the policing of Green Lanterns they would basically have to have the Green Lantern version of Batman: White Knight, an alternate universe by a creator who respects the history but also understands the problematic elements and actually confronts them meaningfully. I really like Green Lantern Earth One, but now I'm kinda wishing that that was the series to do that. I don't think it's all doom and gloom though. Have you been reading Far Sector? If you want a mediation on authority and policing with a green lantern skin then it's the perfect series for you, using the police procedural format to talk about police brutality and riots, among other things. And, to go on a bigger tangent that drifts away from Green Lantern and is more of a rant about the comic industry as a whole. I totally agree with you when it comes to actually moving on from the Silver Age. It's one of my main problems with DC specifically lately, every writer is so concerned with making it so EVERYTHING MATTERS that it gets in the way of good storytelling and everything, at least in terms of events, becomes a meta commentary on DC as a whole instead of just being a decent story. It's even more egregious since they did it twice in a row, with basically the same message but with different execution. I enjoyed Doomsday Clock a lot, it has problems, but I think if you were going to bring in the Watchmen characters then making the series a mediation on the effect that Watchmen had on the comic industry for good or for ill and the ending thesis both being that DC's history is important and that the DC Universe never will or never should fall into the trap of emulating Watchmen because the foundation of DC is Superman is a little fan wanky, but still satisfying. Compare that with Snyder's Death Metal which just kinda has nothing actually meaningful to say, and feels more like a vehicle to continue shilling The Batman Who Laughs, but it feels big and epic and important because the story mentions how the past is important...again. Writers reverence to the past isn't just limiting them in terms of what stories they tell, that in and of itself has BECOME the story in a lot of cases, which is fine sometimes, Superhero comics have a lot of history and it's fun to celebrate that, but when I'm constantly being told that history and continuity is great instead of just being able to enjoy it without being told how to feel then it's an issue. Marvel is doing a better job of moving their characters forward though, with Zdarsky's Daredevil and Immortal Hulk being amazing turning points in the characters. Sorry, that kinda became a different rant entirely, lmao.
@@Fatboyftw32 No it's fine. I don't think you're giving Death Metal enough credit, though. The most surface level read I can give that event is that it's a story about challenging your own self-importance and then moving on as a part of a larger society. I need to read through it again, but I think there's definitely something there. The problem is DC has such a long history of trying to explain their publishing decisions in-universe when they really don't have to. Part of me really like that they do it, but sometimes it just causes problems. I'm hoping the current state of things works out, because I kind of like the fact that now DC characters look at their own history the same way I do...when I think of Hal Jordan, I think of every Hal Jordan story I've ever read, weather they're in continuity with each other or not, and now Hal will too. ...and Far Sector is absolutely amazing. The only reason I haven't talked about it much lately is because I'm waiting to see if it can stick the landing. Because if it can, it'll be one of my favorite Green Lantern runs of all time.
Nothing wrong with them being police and serving up bad people And I love the messages Bad people deserve to be arrested Just like in real life Bad people deserve to be arrested
I entirely disagree here. I understand that seeing the real life police as good guys is too simplistic, but the fact of the matter is the attrocities committed by cops are relatively rare, the stories just get a whole lot of attention. The Green Lanterns being space cops is one of the most interesting aspects of the group, and even some of their darker aspects, like the Guardians just kind of arbitrarily policing the entirety of the universe makes the stories all that more interesting. One of my favorite things about Hal Jordan specifically is that he's portraid as a pretty conservative, right wing guy. In one of the issues from the Geoff Johns run he actually says something like "the only people who are afraid of big brother are those doing something wrong". I entirely disagree with the sentiment, but it makes for great interactions with Green Arrow for example (who is a literal communist, I believe). Heck, even the Justice League that you refer to as basically a smaller scale version of the corps act like cops. They do have government contacts and such. Plus I believe you are being purposefully reductive when it comes describing the Corp's actions as "arbitrarily locking people up" and "using excessive force". 9/10 cases they're engaging super villains that aren't easily stopped. And the excess violence is frankly just so we can get cool fights because those are action adventure comics and I want cool fights. I know police brutality is a hot button issue, and I'm from Brazil, so let me tell you, I probably seen way more brutal stuff than you, and even here, there are way more good cops than bad cops. It is a dangerous as all hell, thankless, low paying profession that is absolutely necessary in order to keep society afloat. I'm not saying that they should be praised without restraint, but I also don't believe you should delete them from our pop culture if they're presented in a positive light. Heck, there are SEVERAL stories about straight up gangsters and criminals being the heroes, and those are more often than not celebrated. Being a space cop is in my opinion a core part of GL's identity and I don't want to loose it no matter what. Plus, you know... Police procedure is cool. As is excessive violence...
With all the propaganda going on in other forms of media I've just lost interest in pointing it out or stopping it. Just accepting the fact that just everything this days has some sort of political message. Not to mention they stayed true to the source and didn't change do to social changes something a lot of other out stories have done for better or for worse
You make it sound like police brutality, militarism, and immoral behavior is at the core of real life cops. But it’s not. Yes, those issues are real, but it is far from bring as prevalent as the media makes it out to be. The police force is an overall good thing, there’s just some bad people in it and some policies/laws that need to change. The whole “all cops are bad” and “defund the police” movements are bad things that are only hurting the process of bettering our police. Hatred and fear only lead to more hatred and fear. So I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the green lantern force being similar to cops in DC. I’d like to see some social issues we face today addressed in GL comics, but not in a way that demonizes police or the corps, but addresses problems with the system and some members that abuse power and authority. But if the cop structure and symbolism gets placed onto the Sinestro corps I will be so disappointed. The last thing we need is more people comparing ALL COPS and the ENTIRE POLICE FORCE to fear monger if militarists that abuse their privileges to oppress because that is such a blatant disrespect to what the majority of cops stand for and believe. Reform, not remove.
Oh also I realized I forgot to address the issue that green lanterns use excessive force to subdue villains, and that makes the cop allegory problematic. My response to that is that green lanterns aren’t fighting robbers and murderers like cops do on earth. For our cops, the power they are given is usually enough when they’re capable with their tools. But a taser and a gun isn’t enough to combat darkseid and aliens with super advanced tech and crazy powers. They’re given a tool that allows them to combat whatever is thrown at them so they can protect and save lives. And they don’t kill, that’s built into their rings as a preventative measure. So I think the phrase excessive force shouldn’t be applied the same to GL’s as it does real world beat cops.
@@IAmBlindProphet One way to give us both what we want would be to use the Green Lantern Corps to show a positive, more responsible version of the police while letting the Sinestro Corps embody the ways a police force can go wrong, acknowledging the problems without demonizing the concept. The issue is that it would still require writers to handle Green Lanterns differently from other super heroes, who solve most problems by swooping in and beating someone up. Green Lanterns are incredibly powerful, they can diffuse any situation in an infinite number of ways, we just accept the use of violence because it's what Batman or Spider-Man would do...but Batman and Spider-Man aren't police, while Green Lanterns are. Like it or not, police brutality is a big problem in the real world, and celebrating it in fiction is messed up. That doesn't mean Green Lanterns should stop fighting people, it just means they should save it for when Green Lanterns are up against opponents who're on their level or higher, using force only when appropriate, and leaning on the creativity inherent to Green Lantern to handle every other situation. ...and for what it's worth, defunding the police just means taking the annual police department budget that's become bloated over the years, reducing it back down to what they actually need to do their job well, and diverting the rest of it over to other programs and initiatives that're build to handle problems the police aren't. It doesn't mean getting rid of the police, it means taking excess burden off of them so they can do their job better, while others step in to handle responsibilities that never should've been put on the police in the first place.
So I’m gonna have to step in here and disagree with your point here. I feel that you’re making a good argument on the green lanterns using excessive force because yeah they sometimes do. And yes GL is a bit of police propaganda but all superheroes are a form of propaganda in one way or another. That’s kinda why they were created. To ignore the BLM world is definitely a bit tone deaf but right now police are receiving a tremendous amount of hate and this is going to have very bad repercussions for everyone in the long run. A lot of what is depicted as police abuse is often misinformation use similarly for propaganda. And the cry to “defund the police” is clearly not about fixing the problem but instead punishment otherwise people would be calling to “reform the police.” To abandon acknowledgment for the difficulties and hardships that the police also endure is to be equally tone deaf especially when they are the first responders for events like 9/11. I think Green lantern has already explore a bit of this in the durlan arc and would in fact do better to explore the “due process” of criminals and how the escalation between the sinestro corps have pushed the GLs into a place of using excessive force. I think we should see GLs train more and a happy compromise would be to make them more like a military regiment. To just make them a team of superhero’s defeats the point of the GL corps and to be honest makes the whole thing a bit childish.
Also want to point out the that GL corps usually tries to avoid killing and using excessive force but are most often faced with very powerful opponents. This video also makes the assumption that most cops today use excessive force and that by making the GL police we are celebrating that but this is untrue on both accounts. The majority of police do their job well and it’s a hard job. The issue is they are not nearly trained enough, overworked, and their union too powerful which is again something that could be explored with the comics.
@@TheEliasNoel Hey, thank you for taking the time to write this. I'm really glad to see that you care enough to want to have a thoughtful discussion. What it really comes down to is celebration vs exploration. It would be one thing if the GLC was used as a way to explore and comment on things like the role of law enforcement in society, or the thin line between doing the job well and causing needless harm...they do it a little, but usually reserve those ideas for specific characters, like the GLC overall is fine but Sinestro is the one bad-actor who went too far (which in itself is an overly simplistic and dangerous idea because it suggests that the problem comes from specific individuals and not the way the system that empowers those individuals was set up). Because at the end of the day, the police in general aren't uniformly bad, but they are absolutely a mixed bag containing the best, the worst, and everything in-between. And don't think for a second that they'd dodge the problem by embracing the idea of the GLC as a military force. It gets just as bad if we look at them as a private army enforcing and imposing the will and values of their leaders onto the rest of the universe. Again, it would be really interesting to see the murky aspects of these ideas explored, and I personally think that exploration should be the entire point of embracing these concepts at all, but they can't properly do that with narratives that frame the GLC squarely as the good guys who we know are always doing the right thing. ...and I think it's important to remember that there will always be something a little bit childish about superheroes, and that's a good thing.
@@MosaicComics releasing the omega men and Vendetti’s last run with Hal Jordan and the GL corps and the entire arc with hiding Sarko and Romat Rus secret explores the responsibility that the GL corps has specifically because they are cops. I get your point that at times the excessive force is celebrated but to be honest it’s done so with any superhero. The “bad guys” are usually capable of leveling cities so excessive action is sometimes necessary. And being a vigilante makes it a bit worse because we are literally celebrating law breakers (like Batman and iron man). Gl actually goes out of its way to explore lethal force and the ethics involved in maintaining an institution like the Corps. It also takes on issues like using natural resources (relic), futility of war (omegamen) and policing against civil Unrest (durlan arc) It’s how characters like John Stewart (also a black character to point out) deals with this which makes GL worth reading. If everyone was just working together but also individually “hero’s” like the Justice league then the story would lose it’s potency. Unfortunately I’m gonna have to disagree with you. I think what was done during Vendetti’s run explores many of the issues your addressing and does so specifically because the gl Corps are cops.
@@TheEliasNoel The frustrating thing about Venditti's run is that while he does engage with a lot of these topics, they're still presented in a pretty binary way...the Darkstars are bad because they use lethal force, therefore anything the GLC does is good as long as they don't cross that particular line, which oversimplifies the topic so much that I have to wonder why he even wanted to tell that story. Lights Out works as a story about the dangers of using up natural resources, until we get to the part where they magically get all the resources back with very few consequences. That run asks a lot of questions that it isn't prepared to fully explore or answer, but I do give Venditti credit for going there at all when most writers don't bother.
@@MosaicComics I agree with lights outs resolution being a bit pointless but I think what your missing is how the characters respond to the challenges. Binary is not necessarily a bad thing and to be honest I don’t think that’s what the run does. There is a spectrum of right and wrong and the green lanterns are always trying to draw the line. And I think they fail several times. With the sinestro corps, with Romat Ru, and in some ways with the dark stars. I do agree that dc needs to allow the characters to explore the repercussions of there choices. A good example is how Kyle kinda cheated on Carol in omega men but it was never addressed.
I disagree. Them being cops is what makes them interesting, is what makes them act different than just heroes. I am getting tired of "You know cops are actually bad" mentality these days. There are good police people. Not all are bad dude.
Exactly. Not all cops are bad, just like how not all cops are good. Presenting superheroes as the police means the police will always be portrayed as the good guys, when the truth is much more complicated than that...which is why any piece of superhero fiction that isn't willing to engage with the moral and ethical gray area of what it means to be law enforcement should just stay away from the whole concept.
@@FirstNameLastName-fe2tu Sinestro was one Green Lantern out of 3600. There have been countless thousands of Green Lanterns, and the fact that there are only ever a small number of bad apples in the bunch implies that the problem is more with the individual than the system that produces/empowers them (which also happens to be a very real part of the discourse surrounding real world law enforcement). Characters like Sinestro represent an opportunity to interrogate the way Green Lanterns are allowed to operate, which can lead to some good drama while also potentially saying something meaningful about an important topic. But that kind of commentary can't exist if the assumption is that the Green Lantern Corps is a police force made of 99% good guys and a few bad actors here and there.
![BOWKYLION - วิงวอน (ex-change) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cLdnZWDaO-w/mqdefault.jpg)
Agreed, I’ve also noticed that most of the Earth Lanterns generally have the same background (military or law enforcement). Kyle was a breath of fresh air at the time.
I always thought the Green Lantern Corps were a combination of police officers/ soldiers on a cosmic level. This video however, makes me reconsider that. Thank you. It's greatly appreciated!
I suppose the saving grace is that in Green Lantern, the one considered the best by everyone was taken out by a rookie who realized he was abusing his power and stood up to him. A message that should really resonate right now. Not to mention the times the Lanterns stood up to the Guardians who make the rules because the rules were wrong. Green Lantern is more about what cops should be. Even lethal force was addressed in the recent Darkstar story.
That Darkstar story was infuriating. "Darkstars Rising" over in Hal Jordan and the Green Lantern Corps focused on police brutality without doing the topic any justice at all. The story takes the stance that everything's ok as long as you don't kill anybody, which is an irresponsible perspective that gives a free pass to anything bad the Corps has been guilty of doing, because at least they're not as extreme as the Darkstars. The entire concept of police brutality was assigned to the villains of the story, and the entire arc was the Green Lanterns saying the exact opposite of what the Darkstars said, until the Darkstars just lost and went away. The reason I want to see a non-GLC entity become a militarized police force and STAY is because that's the only way to actually talk about the fact that the problems with law enforcement are systemic, they're not a villain that can be fought and won in six issues. That's why that Darkstars story failed so hard, all it did was bring the whole idea down to the level of schlocky spectacle.
So I take it you hate the entire Robert Venditti run? If so why are you still a GL fan?
I'm really glad you made this video. Green Lantern has been my favorite superhero since I was 9 years old, but I only recently read the entirety of the Geoff Johns run. I love this run, it's actually probably my favorite, but it really bothered me because it was so pro-army and pro-police. There's no reason Green Lantern should be that way. I love GL for the world building, the characters, and the infinite stories that can be told because of it's rich mythology. I really hope we can get away from the pro-police message especially when such excessive force is horrifyingly used in real life.
Not once have I ever considered the Green Lantern Corp as intergalactic police. I was always of the mindset of them being chosen to be protectors for each Lanterns' individual world and neighboring worlds to keep galactic threats at bay.
Thats how a lot of the older cartoons present it, but the comics lean hard on them being a police force.
Only very powerful planets like New Krypton can claim to be outside their jurisdiction.
That shows a horrible moral problem.
And why would it even be bad if they where a police force.
@@comebacksarecool2834 I'm not going to go into the whole "defund the police" or arguments about police brutality as to avoid a political debate.
But even barring all those arguments, a legitimate police force is given it's authority to use force by a legitimate government.
That's why I'll stop when pulled over by a police officer and run away when confronted by a random dude with a gun.
As a Canandian, I voted for my government, whether I liked the results or not at least it's legitimate.
But who voted or even accepted the Gardians of the Unverse as government?
They go on planets that already have government, or chose not to have one.
Those planets may have their own laws, who are the Gardians of the Universe to send police with the most powerful weapon in the universe and impose their own laws?
The LAPD police is good in L.A. It has no place in Paris.
@@SebastienPatriote ok thanks now I understand it
LOVE this vid. Content like this is why you’re one of my favorite channels on here!
Thank you!
I always thought of them more as a special forces group
I also have always hated the cops thing even before current events..... I would have preferred them as ambassadors who promote unity in the universe or something
... So... Jedi? Because those mostly maim people too.
@@4-2222 yeah exactly
I agree. I can’t stand the cop metaphor for the Corps. They should be knights errant, ranging their sectors to be helpful and protective, not enforcing arbitrary laws.
Great video, Ive been looking into GL lore and fuck is it depressingly brutal for no good reason
This is an excellent and timely video, you articulate many feelings I've been having about the Lanterns for a few years now. I love these characters, but I stopped buying Lantern comics some way in to DC Rebirth, as it was starting to feel like Copaganda.
I like the way you discussed the fact that they're often celebrated BECAUSE they apply such disproportionate force, something I hadn't even really considered.
Honestly, I truly believe DC need to address and change this, but highly doubt they will.
I'm new to your channel, but I really like your work so far.
Would you be ok if I shared this video to the DC Comics subreddit?
I ask because it's a pretty mixed crowd there and I don't want to bring you any unwanted attention.
Thank you for the kind words. Sometimes it can be tough to navigate your own feelings about the things you're a fan of. And by all means, show the video to anyone you want. Not everyone will agree with what I have to say, but that's no reason not to say it, ya know?
Just before Morrison released issue 1 I read that this series would focus more heavily on the "cop" side of it and I was really excited, but that proved to be totally false.
I like some real world issues in comics but someone saying Green Lives Matter would be too much😄
You do have some good points that they dont actually follow any type of police or military rules as far as earth rules go.
Its interesting how things have changed with the 'established' corp now being a definitivley negative force, lining it up better with what you would expect. I can only hope that when the dust settles, we go back to a more classic interpretation with a more 'free agent' style.
At this point, I'm kind of expecting them to start over from scratch and build up very slowly over time. All of the Earth Lanterns, plus the most popular alien GLs.
I kind of viewed synestro and the yellow lantern a little like black Adam. Yes they make bad decisions but as a general rule they will do anything to protect their people. Admittedly I'm very new to green lantern
No you're right, that's the interesting thing about antagonists like Sinestro and Black Adam and Magento...they live in a gray area, and exploring them long term is really interesting. Sinestro especially, because he'll do anything to promote order, but believes completely that order can only be achieved by doing things his way. He's not a super villain, but he'll do whatever he needs to achieve his goals, including building an army of people who may or may not see things the way he does, which can lead to disastrous results.
I kind of agree with him
Like think about your suppose to be an intergalactic police force but your bosses are the biggest war criminals in the universe
Green lanterns should just be a bunch of random people from around the galaxy who were chosen by a ring to protect their planet/solar system
And the guardian should just be an alien race that almost went extinct because they didn’t have any heroes so they made some so other planets would have to go through what they did
And Oa it’s just a planet made by the guardians to help there lanterns with anything they need like housing, repairs to there rings, psychological help, etc….
And no prison which I agree make no sense shouldn’t they be in a prison controlled by the planet that the criminal committed the crime on
I’m fine with SOME cop symbolism I guess, like I never rlly focus too hard on the police aspects of green lanterns tho it’s hard to ignore with the phrase “I’m a cop” being around so much in recent GL comic runs, and it’s true the guardians have done some super sketchy stuff. I guess I never dwelled much on it being anything more than a force of galactic defenders locking up the bad guys but Yh perhaps depolicing them a bit wouldn’t hurt, perhaps show some more of them working with the local governments of worlds to resolve issues instead of just being a huge untouchable force?
The lantern core can do so much more with there Potential I don’t mind some cop elements but like you said in the video I want them to lean into more out there concepts for example flying through space and finding a dead planet then to find out it’s one big nesting ground for some weird aliens and the core goes in to save the planet or sometimes down to earth showing the rest of the world that they are the good guys who are superheroes and not the yellow lanterns
I have to say that i feel Johns did the gls a disservice by turning them into an army. Take John Stewart - during the 'mosaic' era with Gerard Jones at the helm - he was a deep, super intelligent, mature and cultured architect who had a small stint in the military. Johns - 'yeah, all that but mostly he just shoots people from far away'. A serious devolution of character. Going further back, i'm pretty sure the first time they ever got the entire corps together in army form was a good 20 years (in the GLC mini series in '83, i think) after the conception of the GLs as a group.
Your comments on the the potential immorality of Hal's actions make me think - did he learn nothing from Ollie in the 70's at all!?!
John got the military background because of the JL cartoon and Geoff made it Canon when he took over GL. I prefer the architect backstory because it is more creative, like Kyle being an artist. I would not say Stewart has completely devolved. He was very cocky and hot headed when he started out and he matured and became more serious after planet Xanshi blew up.
Just now viewing this video.
Although Johns did get Stewart’s military background from the Justice League animated series he is the one who turned the whole GL Corps into a military. Before he came onboard, the GL Corps served as a peace-keeping organization and, in the 1960’s, solved problems while bringing as little harm to others as possible. Their rings even prevented them from bringing extreme harm to others (which is why Jack Chance reverted to using his guns in the 90’s. Guy’s violent tendencies were the reason the other GL’s saw him as unhinged.
There have been a limited number of stories showing the Guardians answering to higher authorities, but it’s definitely an angle that should be explored more (and has, to a degree, in Thorne’s brief run on GL). But for the longest time, the rings, as programmed by the Guardians, held the GL Corps members to extremely high standards of morality. It’s that aspect that the modern run of the comics have diverted away from in an effort to make the characters and stories seem interesting when all along they just needed some more clever writing.
@@jordanfox2128 Dead on. Also, your name is cool!
@@Monty-or9sb , Ha! Thank you!
Batman is a supergenious high tech billionaire who beets up poor people and the mentally ill to deal with his selfish personal issues when he has healthier and more efficient ways to clean up his city that he arguably never actually is trying to cleanup. Superman has access to powers and advanced technology that Batman and Lex will never fully understand to solve all the world's problems but instead chooses to not use it to do things like cure cancer. He also could save a lot of lives if he put Lex in a Kryptonian prison as apposed to one he can leave whenever he chooses. Also Superman was made a law enforcement officer by the mayor at one point and it fit his character
Also although there are bad Police like their are bad Lanterns many are the closest we have to real superheroes who put their lives on the line and run toward the dangers that sometimes no one is physically or mentally equipped to face. That's why although their is a very loud and powerful minority against the police most of the country likes having them around. Also it makes sense in sciencefiction that alien Oan laws and concepts of judicial/justice systems and concepts would be different then ours. Also the Lanterns are spread out very thin and deal with cosmic level death threats. They are also limited in their supply of good recruits to take on the job. This explains why there would be leniency out of nessecity from the Oans perspective if they even see an issue with the concept of excessive force to begin with. Considering the possibility of their moral values being the same as earthlings westerners who do have a problem with it is probably unlikely given that most societies don't in real life. There is an audience for wild west space cops. And that makes them somewhat unique. GI Joe is a superhero US military. Also the Avengers work for the US government since I think the 70's.
In one superman story he tried using his technology to solve cancer and it didnt work. He was trying to be more than a super strong hero.
In another story Lex actually cured cancer but took it back because he said killing superman is more important
@@Ryguy0707 I think I remember Lex doing that. It doesn't make sense for Superman to not be able to do better though. His mental powers that allow him to use his own superpowers alone would make him have a much higher IQ then Lex and Batman put together. Also his tech is more advanced and he can see what's going on with your body better then anyone else can. Theoretically with his visions alone he could identify every cancer cell and destroy them. Similar to what he did to Manchester Black.
@azuresaiyan9005 There are radically different versions of Batman from a murderer based on the Shadow to a special type of government officer to a arguably excessive violent vigilante who has a no kill rule because he feels once he starts he isn't sure it would stop. Regardless of the version my assessment based on his reasons, skills, resources, and the kinds of criminals he faces on a regular basis would be accurate.
Ah yes the poor economically downtrodden 700 year old leader of an ecoterrorist ninja cult
@@josephburke9474the only version that fits your stupid narrative is the fake one people on twitter bitch about
By your logic Barry Allen (a forensic scientist) Should not be a cop if he has powers right?
Agree with everything in this video
Agreed
I get where you're coming from but I think the corps dosen't have to go through a reform in its concept just to evoid being police propaganda becuse the concept already is more of a leagion of superheros that can be used to explore policy issues sometimes, the problem is that some wrinters fell the need to push the SpAcE c0pS ideia for no reason *coff like grant morison coff*
it also might just be by bias talking
I think the Legion is closer to the Justice League International, or the 2013 Justice League of America: a team of rag tag heroes who have to answer directly to the government. The GLC plays with that idea sometimes, as they'll go out of their way not to interfere with local matters ala Star Trek, but they still operate with a level of autonomy that these other groups don't. Truthfully, I'd love it if they were more like the Legion, but for that to happen the GLC and Guardians would have to be beholden to other groups far more than they are.
Very thoughtful video about a very complex subject. Well done. 👌🏻
Thanks!
@@MosaicComics I’m home sick this week, and just getting back into comics as I mentioned elsewhere, and I’ve binged almost all of your stuff the last few days. Really helpful. 🙂
@@MattBalara I hope you feel better soon. What comics are you reading now that you're getting back in?
@@MosaicComics I’m getting GL as mentioned, and the 1st East of West HC this week. I also just read Y: The Last Man TP 1, and The Last Siege this week already. Mostly grabbing some omnibuses & TPs to dive in and catch up - HoX/PoX, some Daredevil, Sandman - and that’ll keep me busy for a while. It’s really confusing to navigate, as a beginner, the whole mess of editions and what’s in/out of print, etc. That’d be something that could make your videos even better: when you go deep on a character, list out some of the collected editions that people like me can grab.
@@MattBalara That is a good idea. And it sounds like you've got a pretty good variety of comics already, you're off to a good start.
So in summary. If Green Lanterns are cops then what they do is bad but if they identify as superheroes then it automatically justifies everything? This makes no sense
Superheroes are vigilantes, and vigilante behavior from people with actual institutional authority is both bad and dangerous.
@MosaicComics in a real-life circumstance. Yes, law enforcement acting in such ways is bad. But if we are gonna sit here and complain about the moral complications of Green Lanterns being flawed cops then why aren't we complaining about the fact that vigilantism is a crime and many superheroes kill. I just don't see how this is a big deal because at the end of the day, it's fiction. That's why we don't care when our heroes commit crimes like vigilantism or breaking and entering. And when they make a major mistake, instead of wanting them arrested like we would if they had made that same mistake in our world, we don't mind because it made the story interesting. Are we not allowed to have any stories about law enforcement? What about Robo-Cop or the TV series Blue Blood or the TV series Gotham? Or pick any movie with cops in it. What about Jim Gordon? He often does things that wouldn't be considered "by the book" methods. I'm just wondering why we're complaining about Green Lanterns being flawed cops and yet ignoring flawed superheroes and other movies/TV with flawed cops in them as well.
@MosaicComics also. Thanks for all the GL content. I just recently became a GL fan, and it's nice to see so much GL content.
Yeah that’s exactly what he said lol. And saying that sinestro corp should be the police force is really just indicative of the opinion that all cops are bad. This is not what we need to teach children. The police need reform, not to be completely demonized. That would be very short sighted
I always thought it added to it as it made sense to have laws governing them as a group of vigilantes would not really care so them being cops makes the no killing thing make sense plus them being cops could be seen as representing a side not often done so or done well because not all cops are terrible people but people even now like to act like that's the case also if any thing the gardins would be the villains for trying to impose their law which happens in the third army storyline
I get the view, but the problem which others are showing is that just like how your saying the lanterns adopting the idea of the police is a problem, isn't the idea that all cops and law enforcement are bad?
On the concept of excessive force? Of course they do, look at who they fight. They inspired me to become law enforcement and I help children everyday.
The point is that this isn't black and white, it's not as simple as saying law enforcement is 100% good or 100% bad, but that it's got a mix of everything, it's the full range, and any long-form story following members of law enforcement should explore that. And that since the impulse is to present the Green Lanterns as superheroes who always do the right thing, they're not actually a good representation/exploration of law enforcement, because it pretends that the complicated nature of this topic doesn't exist.
@@MosaicComics I get that, but they do. Sinestro himself being a big part of it. They also explore the more totalitarian interpretations. Like the last arc in Vendittis run. I think the space cop thing works well for it because they do actually explore that side well, granted, different authors will be either more grand or more grounded.
There have been quite a few instances of the "good cop gone bad" story.
@@MosaicComicswait but sinestro is a clear example of a lantern going bad hell the guardians show what bad upper management can lead to.
They are literally the intergalactic police force in which they are powered by will, liberal logic is applying AMERICAN politics, you can hate American police but to think all police are like the USA is nothing but stupidity
@@dragb9284sinestro disproves your point tho, as soon as sinestro started acting out of line and went into fear the opposite of will they barred his ass
I am halfway into the video but i cannot watch more. Green lanterns were always supposed to be cops and superheroes in general were modeled after cops back in the gold and silver ages. Sorry but you don't know what you're talking about. Geoff johns in his run proved that the only solution to a corrupt police force lead by corrupt people (the guardians) is a not corrupted police force lead by righteous people (hal jordan). The problem is not the institution of a police force in general, the problem is a corrupted police force. Look how james Gordon gives an example of what a cop should be.
You also said that they were militaristic. In reality they are as militaristic as they should be. Those are the people that go against the sinestro corp. They should be prepared.
I sense personal political views and prejudices shifting your vision of what the corp is.
Clearly the only way to solve policing is more policing, also the gcpd is the worst example you could use as a point in favor of cops, literally all of them are corrupt besides renee and jim
Wow.. a truly thoughtful video 👏 I never truly thought about how they're a systematic police force working with other vigilantees (Batman, Green Arrow, etc) and the parrallels. I saw it but never really acknowledged how their accountability and impact isnt held to the same degree as our police. ALSO, it makes you wonder why they're never used as an example or allegory for how we would like police force or military to be, especially now. They're stories could be used to show how policing COULD be instead of just the Cowboy Super cop brutality.
Speaking of cops working with vigilantes, it kinda makes you wonder. Is superman a vigilante or police force 🤔 and if so its essentially the same as a cop from one city working with a vigilante from another, yet its surprising the U.S gov in DC comics doesnt have any qualms with that. Fact, MOST of the justice league is comprised vigilantees yet they often work in conjunction with the government and even galactic governments dont have qualms with vigilantes or rogues of the policing systems from the.planets they govern are working alongside their officers with no authority from the local government
Thank you! I think Superman is the one exception I'm always willing to make, since his whole deal is that he's spent a lifetime being everyone's best friend and saving absolutely everyone from everything. Superman is unimaginably trustworthy, and the whole DCU knows it. Beyond that, I actually really like the ongoing idea of governments trying to control superheroes by running their own officially sanctioned teams, like the Suicide Squad, and every now and then you'll get a Justice League that's formed by/answers to either the United States government or the United Nations. Or you'll just do what Russia did and build an army of Rocket Reds, which are basically Iron Man. And I'll always have a soft spot for the old days of Checkmate, the secret spy organization set up to monitor superheroes just in case they needed to be stopped.
@@MosaicComics I agree with you about Superman, I just feel like if the cops or gov were asked, they would never refer to him as a vigilante. As opposed to Batman and Spider-man, where thats like, their focus I guess? Also, part of the reason why both of them became vigilantes. Which would be why some of their antagonists are police officers where as Superman's status quo is him helping the cops and disconnected from his becoming a superhero. (Then again he was arguably super b4 but not a hero)
Anywhoo, love your channel keep up the good work, cant wait to see more from you
@@Peecamarke Thank you. You won't have to wait long.
They aren't cops, they are private security and enforcers for the Guardians. They are more Para-military army or actual army for Guardians. They can call themselves cops, but that is only if you consider the Guardians the Government of the Universe. I get your point, but what they say they are doesn't make it so. Sinestro is a perfect example of what the Corps are, bullies. I still like GL (Hal) better than any other super hero, but I did give them a second thought. They want the status quo, that is what they fight for...most of the time its for the better, not always-Death of Krypton.
Can we expect any Hal Jordan content
Just found your channel
And enjoy everything I’ve seen so far. But also noticed the lack of Hal. 😔
There will be plenty of stuff on Hal, he's just one of many characters I haven't had the chance to get around to yet. Thanks for the kind words.
This is a weird video for me. I don't disagree with the main premise, not entirely. But then when you went on your comments about how it's usually justified because Superheroes work outside the law just made me really disagree. No superhero ever truly tries to work within the law, so I don't think it makes their actions any better, they DECIDED to take the law in their own hands and usually do already impose their will unilaterally without anything other than token resistance from the local authorities. The Green Lantern Corps isn't some exception that makes the tropes worse because they are the law, because most Superheros already ARE the law within their own books, the cops are usually supporting them anyway at least somewhat. Honestly the only series I've seen that has the Superheroes work within the law is the Batman White Knight Universe.
Thinking about it that because they're vigilantes it's ok does not make it better. What makes it better is that they're superheroes who usually fight supercrime. Batman would be terrifying in the real world, but he's usually fighting the Joker, who's murdered MILLIONS, so I don't give a fuck if Batman ends up using excessive force and breaks his spine to capture him. So I don't really see the GLC as inherently worse than the fucked up morality of any other superhero story, if you wanna view it in a realistic context.
Edit: Ok, further into the video now, and I have more things I'm taking issue with.
The idea to make the Sinestro Corps the police force of the universe has a lot of unfortunate implications strapped to it. If you make the Sinestro Corps cops then you're just framing cops, all of them, every single one, as villains, that's just what the implication is there. Yes there have been good Yellow Lanterns before I guess, but they're first and foremost an organization full of just not even people who like take things too far sometimes, but like a lot of them are literal genocidal maniacs. The metaphor at that point just isn't a good one, despite the fact that a police force being powered by people who use fear is thematically pretty solid.
It gets worse when you think about the Green Lanterns new role in it, they're not the police anymore, but they're still taking the law into their own hands, they're still vigilantes. Vigilantes who have the same exact weaponry as the new police force and regularly get into fights with them. Your idea to get rid of some unfortunate implications just spawned one just as bad if not worse. The idea of armed vigilantes getting into shootouts with the police and that being the unequivocal good guys with little to no moral ambiguity among their numbers is IMO a much more unfortunate implication than an exaggerated version of a police force who usually mainly fights genocidal maniacs sometimes taking it too far. That's not to say that things should stay as they are, or that your idea was inherently bad. There are still ways to mitigate the cop implications (Though I'm not sure if you can get rid of them completely) and your idea could work really well in an elseworld of some kind, just not in mainline continuity when the Yellow Lanterns already have so much history.
I probably should have phrased it better, because what I was trying to get at with the Spider-Man example is that vigilantism isn't actually acceptable, but we're used to thinking about it in a positive light because the story puts us into the mind of the person doing it, tells us their intentions are pure, and the whole narrative is framed around them doing the right thing for the right reasons. We accept Spider-Man's actions as being good because everything about Spider-Man's presentation frames it that way.
The reason I picked the Sinestro Corps is because they're not full-on bad, but they do bad things working toward a good result. Between the Cullen Bunn Sinestro series, and the time when Soranik was their leader, we've seen the Sinestro Corps change into a morally grey force that gets the job done and is loved by a lot of the people they protect. That's likely not true anymore, and I assume that the next time they show up they'll be more like their original state during the Sinestro Corps War, but for a while there the entire Corps was becoming more like Sinestro himself: someone who believes in law and order, but took things too far. Though I have to say, your last point there is a GREAT one that I hadn't thought about at all...shifting the authority away from the GLC would effectively make them the biggest armed militia in the universe, fighting against the police, which would cause just as many problems as the ones I want them to avoid. What's funny is I didn't even think about it, because once again, I just accepted the actions of super heroes.
@@MosaicComics First of all, just wanna say that I think it's really cool how you read and responded to a comment that's not only pretty fucking long but one that criticizes the video so heavily, definitely not something all creators would do.
Anyway, yeah, I totally understand what you meant when you talked about the Spider-man example, it just kinda made me think about what you were saying and how much I disagreed personally about that being the main thing that makes them more palatable, I totally understand that knowing the characters intimately definitely helps stomach the strange morality of Superhero comics.
As for the Sinestro Corps, I read and immensely enjoyed the Venditti run, so I totally know what you mean about them being a bit more morally grey and I absolutely accepted it there, but I feel like it wouldn't be enough if you tried to make them a critique of the police directly, it's a really fine line to walk. Maybe I have less of an objection to that part of the idea in general, and more of a worry that VERY few comic writers would be able to both be able to address their history and not just sweep it under the rug while also making people in the organization sympathetic enough to truly get the moral complexity and respect that the situation would need.
As for the last point, yeah, that was one of the first things I thought of personally. I think the best way to not completely get rid of, but at least mitigate the implications of the GLC would be to give them less power, to make them more beholden to the local authorities of whatever planet they're helping at the time. Make it so the GLC hold back a bit more so as to not step on the toes of the local authorities. With each planet having their own laws and customs you could examine many different parts of policing that way, without making the GLC have complete authority to do whatever they want, giving them more accountability to entities other than themselves so their actions have actual consequences I think would go a long way to temper their image as a unilateral police force.
For example, you could have a planet where lethal force is authorized and typically encouraged, and you could have the Lantern of the story of course catch them without lethal force despite it being an option no one would look down on them for. And then you could have the local authorities either admire their restraint and question their methods, or they could still execute the criminal anyway. You could also have the introductory arc to that be a really interesting story of political entities throughout the universe confronting the Lanterns on them not being held accountable to anyone, and to have the Corps question who gave them the authority to decide that they were fit to police the universe.
@@Fatboyftw32 That's a really cool idea. There's a lot of places they could go with it that could challenge the structure of the GLC in interesting ways. Hell, what if some sectors would only agree to accept the authority of the Corps if they got to elect their Green Lantern? The problem is these ideas stray far enough away from the norm that the best we could probably hope for is one really good run by a writer who gets it, before someone new comes on and either gets it wrong or gets rid of the concept, taking things back to the more classic interpretation. Sometimes I feel like a lot of what I want to see from writers now is a rejection of the early Silver Age, or in some cases the Golden Age, and not because I think any of that material is necessarily bad...it's just that times are different, and those differences open up a lot of doors for new stories exploring interesting directions that nobody thought to go in before.
...and keep the long comments coming. I wouldn't make these videos at all if I didn't want to engage people in conversation. And if that can help me deepen and evolve my understanding of a topic, even better.
@@MosaicComics Oh, I hadn't thought about that, about the sectors electing a Green Lantern, that's really cool. And yeah, I totally agree that I couldn't see these ideas lasting long, if they really wanted to examine the policing of Green Lanterns they would basically have to have the Green Lantern version of Batman: White Knight, an alternate universe by a creator who respects the history but also understands the problematic elements and actually confronts them meaningfully.
I really like Green Lantern Earth One, but now I'm kinda wishing that that was the series to do that. I don't think it's all doom and gloom though. Have you been reading Far Sector? If you want a mediation on authority and policing with a green lantern skin then it's the perfect series for you, using the police procedural format to talk about police brutality and riots, among other things.
And, to go on a bigger tangent that drifts away from Green Lantern and is more of a rant about the comic industry as a whole. I totally agree with you when it comes to actually moving on from the Silver Age. It's one of my main problems with DC specifically lately, every writer is so concerned with making it so EVERYTHING MATTERS that it gets in the way of good storytelling and everything, at least in terms of events, becomes a meta commentary on DC as a whole instead of just being a decent story. It's even more egregious since they did it twice in a row, with basically the same message but with different execution.
I enjoyed Doomsday Clock a lot, it has problems, but I think if you were going to bring in the Watchmen characters then making the series a mediation on the effect that Watchmen had on the comic industry for good or for ill and the ending thesis both being that DC's history is important and that the DC Universe never will or never should fall into the trap of emulating Watchmen because the foundation of DC is Superman is a little fan wanky, but still satisfying.
Compare that with Snyder's Death Metal which just kinda has nothing actually meaningful to say, and feels more like a vehicle to continue shilling The Batman Who Laughs, but it feels big and epic and important because the story mentions how the past is important...again. Writers reverence to the past isn't just limiting them in terms of what stories they tell, that in and of itself has BECOME the story in a lot of cases, which is fine sometimes, Superhero comics have a lot of history and it's fun to celebrate that, but when I'm constantly being told that history and continuity is great instead of just being able to enjoy it without being told how to feel then it's an issue. Marvel is doing a better job of moving their characters forward though, with Zdarsky's Daredevil and Immortal Hulk being amazing turning points in the characters.
Sorry, that kinda became a different rant entirely, lmao.
@@Fatboyftw32 No it's fine. I don't think you're giving Death Metal enough credit, though. The most surface level read I can give that event is that it's a story about challenging your own self-importance and then moving on as a part of a larger society. I need to read through it again, but I think there's definitely something there. The problem is DC has such a long history of trying to explain their publishing decisions in-universe when they really don't have to. Part of me really like that they do it, but sometimes it just causes problems. I'm hoping the current state of things works out, because I kind of like the fact that now DC characters look at their own history the same way I do...when I think of Hal Jordan, I think of every Hal Jordan story I've ever read, weather they're in continuity with each other or not, and now Hal will too.
...and Far Sector is absolutely amazing. The only reason I haven't talked about it much lately is because I'm waiting to see if it can stick the landing. Because if it can, it'll be one of my favorite Green Lantern runs of all time.
Nothing wrong with them being police and serving up bad people
And I love the messages
Bad people deserve to be arrested
Just like in real life
Bad people deserve to be arrested
I also dont get what the problem is. Police are the good guys after all. So why would it be bad if the lantern where a policeforce
Thomas gg exactly
And people don’t realise how how being a police is
Everyone acts like it is a super easy and simple job
@Rocky Croods Not every police officer is a racist and asshole most of them are good guys like they are supposed to be
Honestly green lantern being police is one of my favourite things about them
Captain America, Marvel, Atom work with or for the government.
I entirely disagree here. I understand that seeing the real life police as good guys is too simplistic, but the fact of the matter is the attrocities committed by cops are relatively rare, the stories just get a whole lot of attention.
The Green Lanterns being space cops is one of the most interesting aspects of the group, and even some of their darker aspects, like the Guardians just kind of arbitrarily policing the entirety of the universe makes the stories all that more interesting.
One of my favorite things about Hal Jordan specifically is that he's portraid as a pretty conservative, right wing guy. In one of the issues from the Geoff Johns run he actually says something like "the only people who are afraid of big brother are those doing something wrong". I entirely disagree with the sentiment, but it makes for great interactions with Green Arrow for example (who is a literal communist, I believe).
Heck, even the Justice League that you refer to as basically a smaller scale version of the corps act like cops. They do have government contacts and such.
Plus I believe you are being purposefully reductive when it comes describing the Corp's actions as "arbitrarily locking people up" and "using excessive force". 9/10 cases they're engaging super villains that aren't easily stopped. And the excess violence is frankly just so we can get cool fights because those are action adventure comics and I want cool fights.
I know police brutality is a hot button issue, and I'm from Brazil, so let me tell you, I probably seen way more brutal stuff than you, and even here, there are way more good cops than bad cops. It is a dangerous as all hell, thankless, low paying profession that is absolutely necessary in order to keep society afloat. I'm not saying that they should be praised without restraint, but I also don't believe you should delete them from our pop culture if they're presented in a positive light.
Heck, there are SEVERAL stories about straight up gangsters and criminals being the heroes, and those are more often than not celebrated.
Being a space cop is in my opinion a core part of GL's identity and I don't want to loose it no matter what.
Plus, you know... Police procedure is cool. As is excessive violence...
40%, previously higher before a wave of retirements, of cops openly admitted to abusing their families. Police being bad is not rare in the least bit.
With all the propaganda going on in other forms of media I've just lost interest in pointing it out or stopping it. Just accepting the fact that just everything this days has some sort of political message. Not to mention they stayed true to the source and didn't change do to social changes something a lot of other out stories have done for better or for worse
This comment section makes me proud blm!!
I completly dissagre
You make it sound like police brutality, militarism, and immoral behavior is at the core of real life cops. But it’s not. Yes, those issues are real, but it is far from bring as prevalent as the media makes it out to be. The police force is an overall good thing, there’s just some bad people in it and some policies/laws that need to change. The whole “all cops are bad” and “defund the police” movements are bad things that are only hurting the process of bettering our police. Hatred and fear only lead to more hatred and fear. So I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the green lantern force being similar to cops in DC. I’d like to see some social issues we face today addressed in GL comics, but not in a way that demonizes police or the corps, but addresses problems with the system and some members that abuse power and authority. But if the cop structure and symbolism gets placed onto the Sinestro corps I will be so disappointed. The last thing we need is more people comparing ALL COPS and the ENTIRE POLICE FORCE to fear monger if militarists that abuse their privileges to oppress because that is such a blatant disrespect to what the majority of cops stand for and believe. Reform, not remove.
Oh also I realized I forgot to address the issue that green lanterns use excessive force to subdue villains, and that makes the cop allegory problematic. My response to that is that green lanterns aren’t fighting robbers and murderers like cops do on earth. For our cops, the power they are given is usually enough when they’re capable with their tools. But a taser and a gun isn’t enough to combat darkseid and aliens with super advanced tech and crazy powers. They’re given a tool that allows them to combat whatever is thrown at them so they can protect and save lives. And they don’t kill, that’s built into their rings as a preventative measure. So I think the phrase excessive force shouldn’t be applied the same to GL’s as it does real world beat cops.
@@IAmBlindProphet One way to give us both what we want would be to use the Green Lantern Corps to show a positive, more responsible version of the police while letting the Sinestro Corps embody the ways a police force can go wrong, acknowledging the problems without demonizing the concept. The issue is that it would still require writers to handle Green Lanterns differently from other super heroes, who solve most problems by swooping in and beating someone up. Green Lanterns are incredibly powerful, they can diffuse any situation in an infinite number of ways, we just accept the use of violence because it's what Batman or Spider-Man would do...but Batman and Spider-Man aren't police, while Green Lanterns are. Like it or not, police brutality is a big problem in the real world, and celebrating it in fiction is messed up. That doesn't mean Green Lanterns should stop fighting people, it just means they should save it for when Green Lanterns are up against opponents who're on their level or higher, using force only when appropriate, and leaning on the creativity inherent to Green Lantern to handle every other situation.
...and for what it's worth, defunding the police just means taking the annual police department budget that's become bloated over the years, reducing it back down to what they actually need to do their job well, and diverting the rest of it over to other programs and initiatives that're build to handle problems the police aren't. It doesn't mean getting rid of the police, it means taking excess burden off of them so they can do their job better, while others step in to handle responsibilities that never should've been put on the police in the first place.
:)
So I’m gonna have to step in here and disagree with your point here. I feel that you’re making a good argument on the green lanterns using excessive force because yeah they sometimes do. And yes GL is a bit of police propaganda but all superheroes are a form of propaganda in one way or another. That’s kinda why they were created. To ignore the BLM world is definitely a bit tone deaf but right now police are receiving a tremendous amount of hate and this is going to have very bad repercussions for everyone in the long run. A lot of what is depicted as police abuse is often misinformation use similarly for propaganda. And the cry to “defund the police” is clearly not about fixing the problem but instead punishment otherwise people would be calling to “reform the police.” To abandon acknowledgment for the difficulties and hardships that the police also endure is to be equally tone deaf especially when they are the first responders for events like 9/11. I think Green lantern has already explore a bit of this in the durlan arc and would in fact do better to explore the “due process” of criminals and how the escalation between the sinestro corps have pushed the GLs into a place of using excessive force. I think we should see GLs train more and a happy compromise would be to make them more like a military regiment. To just make them a team of superhero’s defeats the point of the GL corps and to be honest makes the whole thing a bit childish.
Also want to point out the that GL corps usually tries to avoid killing and using excessive force but are most often faced with very powerful opponents. This video also makes the assumption that most cops today use excessive force and that by making the GL police we are celebrating that but this is untrue on both accounts. The majority of police do their job well and it’s a hard job. The issue is they are not nearly trained enough, overworked, and their union too powerful which is again something that could be explored with the comics.
@@TheEliasNoel Hey, thank you for taking the time to write this. I'm really glad to see that you care enough to want to have a thoughtful discussion.
What it really comes down to is celebration vs exploration. It would be one thing if the GLC was used as a way to explore and comment on things like the role of law enforcement in society, or the thin line between doing the job well and causing needless harm...they do it a little, but usually reserve those ideas for specific characters, like the GLC overall is fine but Sinestro is the one bad-actor who went too far (which in itself is an overly simplistic and dangerous idea because it suggests that the problem comes from specific individuals and not the way the system that empowers those individuals was set up). Because at the end of the day, the police in general aren't uniformly bad, but they are absolutely a mixed bag containing the best, the worst, and everything in-between.
And don't think for a second that they'd dodge the problem by embracing the idea of the GLC as a military force. It gets just as bad if we look at them as a private army enforcing and imposing the will and values of their leaders onto the rest of the universe. Again, it would be really interesting to see the murky aspects of these ideas explored, and I personally think that exploration should be the entire point of embracing these concepts at all, but they can't properly do that with narratives that frame the GLC squarely as the good guys who we know are always doing the right thing.
...and I think it's important to remember that there will always be something a little bit childish about superheroes, and that's a good thing.
@@MosaicComics releasing the omega men and Vendetti’s last run with Hal Jordan and the GL corps and the entire arc with hiding Sarko and Romat Rus secret explores the responsibility that the GL corps has specifically because they are cops. I get your point that at times the excessive force is celebrated but to be honest it’s done so with any superhero. The “bad guys” are usually capable of leveling cities so excessive action is sometimes necessary. And being a vigilante makes it a bit worse because we are literally celebrating law breakers (like Batman and iron man). Gl actually goes out of its way to explore lethal force and the ethics involved in maintaining an institution like the Corps. It also takes on issues like using natural resources (relic), futility of war (omegamen) and policing against civil
Unrest (durlan arc) It’s how characters like John Stewart (also a black character to point out) deals with this which makes GL worth reading. If everyone was just working together but also individually “hero’s” like the Justice league then the story would lose it’s potency. Unfortunately I’m gonna have to disagree with you. I think what was done during Vendetti’s run explores many of the issues your addressing and does so specifically because the gl Corps are cops.
@@TheEliasNoel The frustrating thing about Venditti's run is that while he does engage with a lot of these topics, they're still presented in a pretty binary way...the Darkstars are bad because they use lethal force, therefore anything the GLC does is good as long as they don't cross that particular line, which oversimplifies the topic so much that I have to wonder why he even wanted to tell that story. Lights Out works as a story about the dangers of using up natural resources, until we get to the part where they magically get all the resources back with very few consequences. That run asks a lot of questions that it isn't prepared to fully explore or answer, but I do give Venditti credit for going there at all when most writers don't bother.
@@MosaicComics I agree with lights outs resolution being a bit pointless but I think what your missing is how the characters respond to the challenges. Binary is not necessarily a bad thing and to be honest I don’t think that’s what the run does. There is a spectrum of right and wrong and the green lanterns are always trying to draw the line. And I think they fail several times. With the sinestro corps, with Romat Ru, and in some ways with the dark stars. I do agree that dc needs to allow the characters to explore the repercussions of there choices. A good example is how Kyle kinda cheated on Carol in omega men but it was never addressed.
I disagree.
Them being cops is what makes them interesting, is what makes them act different than just heroes.
I am getting tired of "You know cops are actually bad" mentality these days. There are good police people. Not all are bad dude.
Exactly. Not all cops are bad, just like how not all cops are good. Presenting superheroes as the police means the police will always be portrayed as the good guys, when the truth is much more complicated than that...which is why any piece of superhero fiction that isn't willing to engage with the moral and ethical gray area of what it means to be law enforcement should just stay away from the whole concept.
@@MosaicComics But not all green lanterns are good.
For god sakes Sinestro...
@@FirstNameLastName-fe2tu Sinestro was one Green Lantern out of 3600. There have been countless thousands of Green Lanterns, and the fact that there are only ever a small number of bad apples in the bunch implies that the problem is more with the individual than the system that produces/empowers them (which also happens to be a very real part of the discourse surrounding real world law enforcement). Characters like Sinestro represent an opportunity to interrogate the way Green Lanterns are allowed to operate, which can lead to some good drama while also potentially saying something meaningful about an important topic. But that kind of commentary can't exist if the assumption is that the Green Lantern Corps is a police force made of 99% good guys and a few bad actors here and there.