Flapless landings. Air Canada Rouge Airbus A320 declares PAN-PAN at Toronto. Real ATC
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 พ.ค. 2024
- THIS VIDEO IS A RECONSTRUCTION OF THE FOLLOWING SITUATION IN FLIGHT:
12-APR-2024. An Air Canada Rouge Airbus A320 (A320), registration C-GFCH, performing flight ROU1662 / RV1662 from Toronto Pearson International Airport (Canada) to Fort Myers Southwest Florida International Airport, FL (USA) after departure from Toronto stopped climb at 7000, reported flight control issue and declared PAN-PAN. Later the crew reported flap control issue and informed that they had no flaps. The pilots requested runway 23 for landing and emergency trucks to meet them on the ground. After landing the airplane stopped on the runway.
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Image from thumbnail was provided by a passenger.
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Timestamps:
00:00 Description of situation
00:17 Air Canada Rouge Airbus A320 contacts Departure controller after takeoff and stops climb
00:58 The pilots declare PAN-PAN. Flight control issue
01:33 The airplane was transferred to the frequency of Arrival controller
04:07 “We’ve got no flaps”
06:29 The flight crew is ready for the approach
07:30 The pilots contact Tower controller
08:00 Landing. Communications on the ground
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THE VALUE OF THIS VIDEO:
THE MAIN VALUE IS EDUCATION. This reconstruction will be useful for actual or future air traffic controllers and pilots, people who plan to connect life with aviation, who like aviation. With help of this video reconstruction you’ll learn how to use radiotelephony rules, Aviation English language and general English language (for people whose native language is not English) in situation in flight, which was shown. THE MAIN REASON I DO THIS IS TO HELP PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND EVERY EMERGENCY SITUATION, EVERY WORD AND EVERY MOVE OF AIRCRAFT.
SOURCES OF MATERIAL, LICENSES AND PERMISSIONS:
Source of communications - www.liveatc.net/ (I have a permission (Letter) for commercial use of radio communications from LiveATC.net).
Map, aerial pictures (License (ODbL) ©OpenStreetMap -www.openstreetmap.org/copyrig...) Permission for commercial use, royalty-free use.
Radar screen (In new versions of videos) - Made by author.
Text version of communication - Made by Author.
Video editing - Made by author.
HOW I DO VIDEOS:
1) I monitor media, airspace, looking for any non-standard, emergency and interesting situation.
2) I find communications of ATC unit for the period of time I need.
3) I take only phrases between air traffic controller and selected flight.
4) I find a flight path of selected aircraft.
5) I make an animation (early couple of videos don’t have animation) of flight path and aircraft, where the aircraft goes on his route.
6) When I edit video I put phrases of communications to specific points in video (in tandem with animation).
7) Together with my comments (voice and text) I edit and make a reconstruction of emergency, non-standard and interesting situation in flight.
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That is the most insanely calm and professional conversation. Proof that training training training is key.
Can't help but notice that both and departure and arrival controllers don't immediately overload the pilot with questions, but gives him a chance to diagnose the issue and grants him maximum autonomy. Well done.
👍👍👍
I was quietly impressed by the transfer over to arrival because they were less busy. Never heard that done before, but it makes perfect sense.
We try our best 😊
YO JAMES IS THAT YOU
For real. It’s refreshing. So chill
I liked the ATCs. Well organized, concise, aware and attentive to the pilots' needs.
The entire interaction seemed professional, yet friendly on both sides.
Very Canadian. ;)
I haven't seen better examples of ATC professionalism. Congratulations to ground and flight crews for a job well done.
Those Canadians are so darn polite.
Thank you 😁🇨🇦. And may I say, it is very nice of you to say so. You have yourself a wonderful day. 👍
Thank you. 🇨🇦
Not on the hockey rink we’re not 🏒
Thats how we role😊🇨🇦🫎🏒
You fly in Canada much? We were the launch customer for the Bombardier CRJ, and the "locals" in Montreal referred to us as the "Sea Doo" when pointing out traffic. But never in English; it was always back and forth between the controllers and Air Canada in French. So professionalism? Eh, not so much.
Canadians! Amazingly well spoken, no mumbling, from the ATCs and pilots too. Why is this so rare?
Sorry
@@FSKtv 🤣🤣🤣
Canadians suffer from a lack of ego, so they are not trying to impress anyone with how fast they can spew out the jargon.
How is this not a Boeing?
Very strange.
And notice Canadians don't say "eh" all the time like Americans like to joke about.
I was onboard an Air Canada flapless landing flight in Halifax from Toronto about 10 years ago. The pilot made an announcement as we would be circleling to burn excess fuel for a shirt while.
There was a lot of tension on the plane, but I was feeling calm. Literally, the moment the nose gear, the plane erupted in crazy cheering, and it was all I could do from yelling, "Not yet, you idiots!"
These people are on a whole other level. good job
I love Canadian ATC.
Yes! More clear than their American counterparts.
@@KeepingOnTheWatchthey weren’t forced back to work by Reagan
I liked the confirmation of the altimeter on the approach. Class act that was.
how the hell did these guys sound so good and clear??? WOW- i have heard many ATC recordings but this is the most clear one I've ever heard
Someone seems to have a very good receiver position near CYYZ
Tim Hortons coffee in Canada it makes everyone more calmer
@@ronparrish6666 LMAOO true
One word: Canadian
Because it's Canada and not the US.
As you might expect, runway 05/23 is the longest at Pearson (11,120 ft or 3,390m)
Tough day, likely Flap/Slat jam, so Flaps stuck near Zero (I think), gusty winds to 25 knots, but down the Rwy which helps with the faster airspeed on landing, and then 500 ft ceilings w/ mist and rain all while doing much higher than normal approach speeds. Well done.
Now that’s how it’s done 👏👏👏
Once I landed in Boston on a plane with no flaps. Pilot was cool and told us “we have a procedure for this.” Landing speed was higher than normal though I’m not sure I would have known. Emergency trucks on hand but we station the runway with no problems.
So professional all the way around.
Bravo to crew and ground ! Your the best in the world 👍
So professiona all round. Well done.
These guys are very well trained and very professional,well done, this the way you do it, calm , cool and get the job done.
Spirit Airlines wishes that their *regular* landings were this calm and orderly....
Excellent job!
I had a similar experience on an Air Canada A320. Flaps failed to retract fully and became inop after takeoff. We bounced around in rough air at ~12,000 feet for 90 minutes or so, before returning to Vancouver for a (quasi) no-flaps landing. Our crew did great. The airline compensated each of us with a $10.00 meal voucher. 🙄
That controller was super confused when he was trying to figure what to tell Frontier for crossing instructions.
I am flying in this exact plane on Sunday to Austin, TX. Now I am nervous!
The flap problem was detected on climb-out, and you normally aren't putting them down at that time -you're retracting them. I'm wondering if the flaps were stuck partially retracted. Normal take-off configuration is 1+F which is about 10 degrees. When the pilot said "No flaps" I wonder if he meant "No flap control" or maybe "We won't have normal landing flaps"
The reason no-one was panicking is that this one of the least worrying of any inflight emergency, and one that you practice for even in your earliest days as student pilot. Slightly higher approach speed, slightly different picture out the front on approach. Used to love shooting flapless landings -they were often my smoothest ones.
Of course there’s a huge difference in the runway length needed to land a no-flaps A320 and a C172 in clean config, but then you didn’t mention what you were flying.
That was most definately it. Otherwise they wouldn't even have noticed that there is a control problem.
As we regular Air Canada customers like to say..... "Rouge'd again!"
yea its a rouge problem lol, rouge manufactured the airbus.... donkey comment... i hear trains have the success rate to reduce complaining vs flying through the air
Where do you get the audio? would love to listen to one live
LiveATC app
I drive to the airport and turn on the app so I can hear what the planes are saying :)
I sometimes listen to them on my scanners and use ABS and flight radar. I know a guy who is a ATC at YYZ
I notice Canadian ATC often uses "I check" to indicate that they understood a message or copied the information provided. Is that ICAO terminology, or is it something specific to Canada? I don't recall hearing it anywhere else.
Based on my experience, only Canadians use this.
@@YouCanSeeATC check
@@testpirate2570I check that you check.
It's a hockey thing.
@@allankeefe9817lol that’s an entirely other kind of checking
If you have the same malfunction but during the approach, it is a completely different story. In departure you have all the time in the World. In approach you are down to minimum diversion fuel plus whatever extra, and it give less minutes of endurance due to the excess drag caused by the flaps. In departure you can relax and have a coffee while u discuss the QRH with your coleague!
Why can’t US ATC be like this
Many times they are!
At one point this was happening in the CRJ fleet up to 3 times a day, particularly in winter.
Whaaaat that’s crazy
@@somethingsomething404 it was a bunch of different things but mostly deicing fluid getting into the flap mechanism and gumming it up. It took a long time to sort it out.
The pilot was calmer than me when I smoke weed, he sounds almost bored lol
The telephony…my god.
Am I wrong thinking that the pilot should not say "sixteen" on the radio? That they should say "one-six" ("one-six-six-two" in this case)? Not sure what the procedure is, but there might be some confusion if another flight is "6062".
I think you're right, but there is probably less concern about confusion when they always introduce themselves as Rouge 16 62 when they talk to a new controller, and then once they've had some back and forth they shorten it to just 16 62.
@@PeterDrakeI’m a pilot, yes the official terminology is one-six but no one cares
I'm super confused - maybe someone can help me explain. Presumably the flaps were extended for take off just fine. It was only when they were climbing/cruising did they notice that the flaps were non-responsive (stuck extended?). Why then did they note expecting a longer landing and not just land with extended flaps (as you'd normally do)?
A heavy fuel load would extend the landing.
You usually take off 1+F (Slats + Flaps 1), but you usually lands Flaps 3 or Full. The less flaps you have, the faster you have to go to not stall, so landing Flaps one require you to land at a higher than usual speed, thus the longer landing.
@@SuheMalqir thanks - didn’t realize it was more than a binary setting.
What’s the big deal I’ve pulled off multiple no flap landings in the a320.
Surprised you don't have to pay more for flaps at Air Canada.
Lol
3:27 "No live on board" 🙂
No animals in the cargo compartment
Live as in livestock, not humans, those are the "Souls on board"
What about no dangerous?
@@levibrb No hazmats
In a situation where you’re dealing with domestic pilots and controllers, especially of the same native language, it would be easy to infer the meaning of this, being that it has followed fuel and souls. If the ATC’s had questions, they’d clarify. It’s not real clear, but easy to infer as at this point proper call-outs have been followed. If I were an ATC, I’d probably clarify to be 100%, but it worked out fine here.
Flaps stuck, not on TV news, wrong brand. Same with smoke in cockpit return of AB, and many others.
Why should this be on the news? It's just a standard abnormal procedure not a live threatening emergency.
Why are Canadian pilots so clear and American pilots mumble?
They have a Bureau of Lucidity.
They always start the day off with Tim Hortons coffee
Hi I’m Canadian. We all speak more clearly on the phone too. Why wouldn’t you, it’s just helpful. I have noticed the intonation becomes ever so slightly British when we do. Not the accent but the intonation of the sentences as a whole. 2 or 3 generations ago there were still a lot of British people in teaching. Now, there are lots of immigrants in school and you want your friends to understand you.
Slowing down your speech and enunciating seems like a skill Americans don’t develop from childhood like we do. On the other hand they invent all the new and fun slang
American pilots and ATC speak like doctors write prescriptions. All in code.
American telephony is all about sounding cool. The pilots all think they are Chuck Yeager on meth and the ATC is on some other trip. I hear some decent telephony but in Canadian ATC and pilot training this drummed into you to speak clearly and all the words. No cowboy making shit up as you feel like it.
The only thing I don't quite understand is why they didn't simpy ask for a hold over a fix somewhere in the vicinity, so that the controller does not have to think about keeping them in the area while they do their planning and calculations.
Kelsey (74 Gear) just did a video about that. "Mayday Aircraft Asked to Hold". His reasoning is that if the pilot is holding, it means a larger workload. Either because they have to reprogram their computers with the holding pattern or they have to be paying more attention to their surroundings and it's generally easier if the pilots can focus on what they need to be doing to get the plane back on the ground while just listening for ATC to chime in and tell them when and where to turn.
Rouge fleet are ancient.
It takes 10 minutes for the trucks to get ready???
Well, yes - it’s still hockey season. One can’t just abruptly stop watching the game.
With a bit more time you check aircraft charts, typical response time on cold call is 3 minutes to end of runway from time of notification
First time I've heard "no live & no dangerous"
Well EMS would want to know if they had to contend with a wild Canadian beaver on board 🦫
I don’t think you’re allowed to keep beavers as pets. They are far too vicious and unpredictable 😉
Standard info for response crews, if there was would want to know which hold
If that's the abbreviated version of no live animals and no dangerous cargo, then that's the first time I've heard them abbreviated that way.
@@lebojay I’ve been petting Canadian beaver since the 1980s. They are much rarer these days, I have to admit. 🇨🇦
Pffft. A320 using Boeing 748 flaps......well I never 🧐
Airbus doesn't use Boeing flaps; what is funny is in early 2001 - 2006, Airbud was having the same issue Boeing is now, by cutting corners, trying to build planes faster than they can safely, and using new technology before it was proven safe. People seem to forget about that.
@@stephenludlum9746 I guess you missed the emoji
@@malahammer Sorry, I did lol
So Boeing not alone. Airbus in the hot seat now.
When you book AC and arrive and see a Rouge plane.. you see ROUGE!!!!😡😡 lol. They do good MX but the planes are someone dated and beat up.
I doubt DEI pilots could pull that off, no panic . Completely in control at all time . Well done.
If it takes 80+ minutes to get the trucks ready then I’d be going somewhere else where they care!
Do everyone a favour and stay home. No one said anything about taking 80 minutes.
They never said that it'd take 80+ minutes to get the truck and it was a PAN-PAN, not a MAYDAY situation.
No reason to rush and risk it.