I have great memories listening to the Muti Mahler 1st when it was first released around 1984 during the early days of CDs. There was a guy I knew who literally lived in the residential unit above the local classical record store and he and I would sometimes get piles of discs and have cozy listening sessions in his place; plus he knew all the juicy gossip on the local classical people. Despite the guy being a classical nut, he somehow didn't go broke living atop a classical record store.
P.S. Ormandy's Mahler 10 with the Philadelphia Orchestra is fabulous -- a real surprise for a guy like me who is not otherwise a big Ormandy fan. The orchestra sounds amazing and Ormandy gave it everything he had.
Neat idea, and maybe for a series of cycles of other composers too? My list: No. 1 - Thierry Fischer/Utah No. 2 - Blomstedt/San Francisco No. 3 - Andrew Litton/Dallas No. 4 - Previn/Pittsburgh No. 5 - Barshai/Junge Deutsche Philharmonie No. 6 - Thomas Sanderling/St. Petersburg No. 7 - Barenboim/Staaskapelle Berlin No. 8 - Antoni Wit/Warsaw No. 9 - Giulini/CSO Das Lied - Ormandy/Philadelphia
The SLSO of the 70s/80s is one of my all-time favorites, and Telarc's recording is spectacular. I also think that for some reason the LA Phil is a great Mahler 3 orchestra. I love both Mehta and Salonen's recordings--and I have loved the live versions I have heard over the years.
My offering: The fourth with Hans Vonk conducting the St. Louis Symphony Orchestra. It is an absolutely gorgeous recording, wonderfully-conceived and perfectly executed.
I couldn't agree more with your comments on Salonen's 3rd and Gilbert's 9th. I haven't heard Nagano's 8th, that's now at the top of my to do list. It's not surprising Nagano is in his element leading a cast of thousands. The live Salzburg recording of Messiaen's St. Francis opera with Nagano leading the Halle Orchestra and Arnold Schoenberg Choir is one of my desert island discs.
Telarc/Soundstream apparently thought enough of the Slatkin to reissue the recording on SACD-DSD disk, apparently before Telarc closed shop. I remember hearing the performance live. I'll never forget Battle's first entrance--it had to be as close to an angel singing while descending from heaven as we'll get here on earth.
I’m very glad you mentioned Nagano. I stumbled randomly on it on TH-cam a while ago and I thought ( and still do ) that it’s the most beautiful (and perhaps the best recorded) Mahler 8 I have ever heard. I never heard the full 3 by Salonen but I also randomly found the last 25 minutes of it when he played it with the Philharmonia Orchestra and it’s absolutely gorgeous.
I heard CSO/DB in Mahler 5 at the Proms a few days after this Cologne live concert was recorded back in September 1998. The concert was electrifying with a Birtwistle premier in the fist half. Most notably, this was Adolph Herseth's final tour after decades as CSO principal trumpet and his final performances of Mahler's 5th.
Great list👍 In early 2000"s a friend of mine was moving back to Warsaw Poland after he had finished his studies in America, and wanted to take back some American orchestra recordings. I gave him my Slatkin/Telarc Mahler 1 & 2. Glad I did it (he still has them) but sadly never replaced them...I miss them😢
I'm not really sure if that qualifies as a "one-shot wonder", but I feel obliged to talk about Charles Mackerras, whose Mahler recordings are still widely ignored. And it's a crime. Even myself, who already owns lots of Mackerras recordings, I only found out very recently that he recorded the first symphony in Liverpool for EMI. And what a first that is! It's absolutely stunning, easily in my top 5 recordings of this symphony. There's also a terrific fifth with the same orchestra (which may be a bit more well-known?) Finally, he also recorded a live sixth with the BBC Philharmonic. And even though the fact that Mackerras chose to place the Andante second may be controversial, he manages to sell it. Of course.
I pulled out Pappano's 6 and was delightfully surprised. The first-movement tempo is perfect (for once), and the sound, while somewhat wooly, works well with the aerated textures and beautiful pianissimos.
First, regarding Thomas Sanderling's Mahler 6th. It is available for download from Amazon Music. I agree that it is very, very good. Second, relating to Barenboim's Mahler 5th, I have it on a DVD of the performance recorded in Cologne while the CSO was on tour. At the end of the concert while the applause continues, Barenboim is given a bunch of roses. He takes one and walks to the back of the orchestra where Bud Herseth was sitting intending to give him the rose. Instead, Herseth put his trumpet forward and Barenboim dropped it into the bell of the horn. A sight never to forget. And the performance also featured principal horn Dale Clevenger at the peak of his powers.
The Slatkin 2nd has given me goose-bumps every time I've listened to it, and I've had it since it was first released. I have not heard any recording that has better soloists or a more rousing finale. I've always wondered why it did not get more mention, and I'm glad to hear Dave extoll its virtues. The best performance, recorded or live that I've ever heard of the third was performed by the New England Conservatory Orchestra and Chorus back in the 70s. It was not recorded (as far as I know) but it showed what can happen when a group is extremely well rehearsed. Everyone was tightly together and they all felt the music the same way. Perhaps they were all young enough for it to be their first experience performing the piece so they were not going through the motions. I'm not sure who conducted, likely Gunther Shuller.
Slatkin is an interesting case. That second is phenomenal. But his first, also on Telarc, was a real dog. The Mazzetti 10th he did for RCA was not bad, but I also do not much care for the work. If you can find it, the St. Louis Symphony issued his Mahler fifth from a live performance as part of a commemorative box set at the end of his time as conductor with the ensemble. It is incredible, easily the finest I've heard. Having heard him conduct the seventh live (and produce a remarkable concert with it), I can attest that he is uneven in Mahler but also capable of extraordinary performances.
Nagano also did the third, one of my introductions to Mahler back when I was a teen, remembered it being quite splendid. He was supposed to start recording a live cycle with the Israel Philharmonic over a few seasons, and then the corona happened and that plan fell before it started.
Too early in his career to call it a one hit wonder but I thought Rafael Payare's performance of Mahler's 5th with the Montreal Symphony was outstanding. So far it is his only recording. Recently saw him conduct the Philadelphia Orchestra in Mahler's 1st which was also excellent. I think he has Mahler in his blood but time will tell. Loved the inclusion of Muti and the Philadelphia Orchestra in this list. That was my first encounter with Mahler. Prior to hearing this recording classical music was something I played in the background while studying. After this recording it became a lifelong passion.
When I saw the title, the first one recording that popped into my head was the Previn Mahler Fourth. Previn definitely was not associated with Mahler, but I vaguely remember Dave saying nice things about that recording.
I have to say, I thought Salonen's 3rd was a knockout... until the final 30 seconds. The bass drum gives the coda the wrong feel. As for my cycle, 1st- Mackerras 2nd- Slatkin and SLSO- also used in my ideal cycle, also available for download on Presto. 3rd- Litton and Dallas- also an ideal pick, and this could be a great modern reference, you know, if anyone else heard it. 4th- Previn and Pittsburgh, fantastic although Ameling does not turn in one of my favorite accounts of the finale 5- Barshai 6- Sanderling and St. Petersburg- available on Amazon to download. 7- Alexandre Bloch and thr Orchestre national de Lille- maybe my favorite Mahler 7th. 8-Nagano- This is my least favorite Mahler symphony, but I love the thick atmosphere here. 9- Pesak and Royal Liverpool- an under the radar great if ever there was one. Das Lied- I am a Minnesota man, and I love the Oue performance. I think this is the best MN Mahler on disc, in my opinion. I can see why Vanska skipped Das Lied. He had to know it would look pale in comparison
I have the number 2 and number 9, and Das Lied von der Erde. I feel that the Slatkin Mahler 2 is a real sleeper. The Mahler Ninth with Alan Gilbert is one of the best out there. Oue's Das Lied can compete with any recording out there.
A great list! I really love so many of these. I'm working from memory, so don't have a full list, but: 1. Thierry Fischer 2. Andrew Litton 3. Neeme Järvi (he made a few, but this is the best) 4. André Previn, like everyone else said 5. Rafael Payare 6. 7. Alexandre Bloch (so good!) 8. Robert Shaw (I know...) 9. Lied.
What a neat idea!!! Salonen’s M3 is really fine, even when I (as a trombonist) look past the first class playing from Ralph Sauer on the first movement soliloquy. The old Mehta recording is excellent, but Salonen need not bow to anyone.
Could one assemble a similar cycle of one-shot recordings of Beethoven symphonies? Or Bruckner? Or Nielsen? Or Shostakovich? I must admit, I haven't encountered any of the discs which Dr. Hurwirz discusses here. But I fully agree with him on the undesirability of recording an entire cycle if there are works in that cycle that don't inspire a performer. The world is full of recordings made solely through a misguided desire for completeness. We don't need any more.
You’ve already got my cogs turning for Shostakovich. Morton Gould for Symphonies 2 & 3, Slatkin for either 4 or 8, Boult for 6, Previn or Muti for 13, thought required for others. Edited to add: Stokowski for 11 and Karajan for 10.
I get to hear Salonen do the 3rd in San Francisco in June. I'll have to watch out for that bass drum. I also recently received the SF Symphony's 2024-25 calendar--one day after hearing the news that Salonen is resigning.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Yeah, but there's been some disagreements with the SFS board and I guess due to financial concerns they're gonna be relying on more traditional concert fare and not the more ambitious and contemporary music that Salonen wants to focus on.
When the actual purpose became clear to me, I was instantly certain of three recordings that would feature, since they perfectly fit the bill: - #2 with Kaplan/LSO/Valente/Forrester (quite a lot better than expected) - #4 with Previn/Pittsburgh/Ameling (really, a great one) - #8 with Wít/Warsaw (not heard it, but it garnered a lot of fame) Wrong on all counts. Such fun! I was most wrong of all about Wít, because I've missed all the other Mahlers he did. No one-shot wonder he.
Muti ha diretto anche una meravigliosa quarta sinfonia ad Amsterdam con i Wiener. L'ho ascoltata su TH-cam. Peccato che non ci sia il CD e peccato che Muti, a quanto ne so, non abbia diretto altre sinfonie
How about the 'sleepers' series? I've never been disappointed in your 'sleepers'. Most recently I listened to the Albert Catell/Wislocki Dvorak cello concerto from your podcast about the concerto best recordings, what a lovely discovery!
Another contender for #1 was the one-time wonderboy Jacek Kaspzcyk (I think I have that right...) who did what was to my ears a very creditable version. The Gramophone did NOT agree. Kaspczyk has since become a lot more obscure, but is still working.
Oh I enjoyed this talk very much. Off I did trot to listen to the Slatkin, the Nagano, and the Das Lied. The 2nd and the Das Lied are wonderful performances. I've been a fan of Solti's 8th for as long as I can remember so I found Nagano's lush approach such a contrast it took me a while to sink in and enjoy it. I'm so used to hearing Solti drive that performance home as if his life depended on it that the contrast with Nagano is like switching from a formula one car to a rolls royce. My only niggle is the tempo has those poor sopranos struggling with intonation during those final high passages. Off to listen to some more now.
dave, i don't know if this is gonna sound odd or stupid but i've been heartbroken for the last 3 weeks and finding some sort of comfort in sibeliu's music, especially in the ballade moviment from the karelia suite, it has gained, for me, a whole new meaning, a whole new range of beauty, and i was wondering if this would not be a good ideia for a list, of music for heartbreaks. i suppose it does sound stupid, but these matters with the heart generaly are.
Very interesting. I'd have plumped for Previn's absolutely sublime Mahler 4 with the Pittsburgh symphony: terrific. I don't think Previn did any other Mahler. I must look out for Salonen's Mahler 3. If he did change the orchestration at the end then good on him! I always thought the very last bars needed something "extra" at the end, that it doesn't really properly cap what has been - up to that point - profoundly moving.
I'd love to agree. After Dave's recommendation, I dialed-up the recording on streaming. Indeed, the first 2/3 of the opening movement are incredible... and then the whole thing begins to inexplicably fall apart and go downhill. It is a shame because it is immaculately recorded and frankly Pittsburgh has never sounded more glorious than they do here. On the whole, I find the disc sub-par after blowing everyone else out of the water in most of the first movement.
Salonen really conducted an outstanding Third Symphony. Really one of my favorites. But for me he's not a one shot wonder. He also had Das Lied and Symphonies 4, 6, and 9. My real one shot wonder for Symphony no. 3 is Heinz Rögner. A wonderful and individual recording. I particularly like the post horn solo. It seems so authentic because it is not played on a trumpet as usual.
Not fair, Dave picked a lot of the plums, but an another one shot cycle might include: 1 - Dresden/Suitner 4 - Philharmonia/Loose/Kletzki 5 - Junge Deutsche Philharmonie/Barshai 8 - Warsaw/Wit DLvdE - Haefliger/Merriman/Dresden/Jochum
Can I circle this back to the reference recordings? Your review for Classics Today declares Ivan Fischer’s 2006 Mahler 2 recording a reference recording. How does that circumstance arise: one where, against an esteemed catalog of high-profile recordings of the work, a 2006 entry-however excellent it may be-earns “reference” status? Thanks.
At ClassicsToday critics choose personal "reference recordings," as so many do here, and not always the "consensus" pick, as I'm trying to describe in these videos. Note that the Fischer is "a" reference, and not "the" reference. I really don't think the 2nd has the latter at all.
Speaking of Salonen, any interest in talking about the issues surrounding his departure from San Francisco? Concerned that this may be a harbinger of what may be happening to some of our better orchestras.
Dave, have you changed your mind about Salonen? In the comments on the best M3 recordings you wrote "I can't forgive Salonen the bass drum whacks added at the end, doubling the timpani. I heard him do it live too, but it's totally the opposite of what Mahler intended." I am a bit confused.
That's an excellent list, Dave. I agree with everyone one of those. Just one nit-picky, annoying point. Ashkenazy has recorded a complete Mahler cycle in Australia for Exton. It even includes a decent performance of M10 in the Barshai version. That being the case, I'll state that I like the Eliahu Inbal/Czech Phil. M7 on Exton as much or more than the Ashkenazy. But they're both perfectly fine. In fact, Kobayashi and Z. Macal have also recorded M7 with the Czech Phil. for Exton - who actually have four Czech Phil. M7 recordings!!! Good luck finding them all, of course.
I can't agree with the bass drum doubling. It was performed under Mahler, if he wanted the obliteration of the D-A pitches in the timpani and cellos/basses Mahler would have added the bass drum. I don't think Mahler wanted the vulgarity intentionally written that we hear in the Shostakovich #5
I don't "agree" with it either, but I respect his right to do it in the context of what is otherwise a very fine and thoughtful performance. Now if it were garbage from the get-go, I'd feel differently.
That Ashkenazy M7 is well done if not quite top-flight. Ashkenazy did another decent M7 with the Sydney Symphony, as good as the Czech one if not better.
Salonen has a 4th, 6th, a 9th and LvdE in addition to this 3rd, so not really one-shot. Nagano has a 3rd and LvdE, but I agree, that's less than half-a-cycle.
Most conductors these days have done more Mahler than has been recorded systematically, but my point was that some had very few and others may have a bit more but aren't known for being Mahler conductors.
Salonen did a great performance of the 3rd with the Dresden Staatskapelle at the 2011 Leipzig Mahler Festival. The Oue is a really fine performance let down by de Young's wide vibrato. There exists a live M1 with Muti and the Philadelphians as a gift for donors. One big disagreement in the Barenboim M5 with Chicago. Sounds like he's conducting Bruckner. Man has no business conducting Mahler. Heard a live M9 with him and his Berlin band...dullsville.
![[HD]Tessa Virtue & Scott Moir FD 2010 Vancouver Olympics (Symphony No.5 by Gustav Mahler)](/img/n.gif)
Rudolf Barshai’s 5th with the German Kids on Brilliant Classics is a personal favourite of mine Dave!
I have great memories listening to the Muti Mahler 1st when it was first released around 1984 during the early days of CDs. There was a guy I knew who literally lived in the residential unit above the local classical record store and he and I would sometimes get piles of discs and have cozy listening sessions in his place; plus he knew all the juicy gossip on the local classical people. Despite the guy being a classical nut, he somehow didn't go broke living atop a classical record store.
P.S. Ormandy's Mahler 10 with the Philadelphia Orchestra is fabulous -- a real surprise for a guy like me who is not otherwise a big Ormandy fan. The orchestra sounds amazing and Ormandy gave it everything he had.
Neat idea, and maybe for a series of cycles of other composers too?
My list:
No. 1 - Thierry Fischer/Utah
No. 2 - Blomstedt/San Francisco
No. 3 - Andrew Litton/Dallas
No. 4 - Previn/Pittsburgh
No. 5 - Barshai/Junge Deutsche Philharmonie
No. 6 - Thomas Sanderling/St. Petersburg
No. 7 - Barenboim/Staaskapelle Berlin
No. 8 - Antoni Wit/Warsaw
No. 9 - Giulini/CSO
Das Lied - Ormandy/Philadelphia
It seems we have the same 3 through 6. Great to see someone else give Litton's third some well deserved love.
The SLSO of the 70s/80s is one of my all-time favorites, and Telarc's recording is spectacular. I also think that for some reason the LA Phil is a great Mahler 3 orchestra. I love both Mehta and Salonen's recordings--and I have loved the live versions I have heard over the years.
The Slatkin Mahler 2 has that very tasty Telarc engineering, especially at the end with the organ :-)
My offering: The fourth with Hans Vonk conducting the St. Louis Symphony Orchestra. It is an absolutely gorgeous recording, wonderfully-conceived and perfectly executed.
Mahler 5 with Hartmut Haenchen and the Dutch Philharmonic Orchestra. All the tempi are spot-on.
Symphony No. 4: Szell/Cleveland (Columbia-Sony) is a very solid effort worth consideration and fills "the bill".
I would have picked Reiner over Szell here, and (not including Das Lied) it is the only Mahler symphony he recorded!
During his tenure with the National Symphony Orchestra in DC, I saw Slatkin conduct Mahler 3 and 6--both very well.
I couldn't agree more with your comments on Salonen's 3rd and Gilbert's 9th. I haven't heard Nagano's 8th, that's now at the top of my to do list. It's not surprising Nagano is in his element leading a cast of thousands. The live Salzburg recording of Messiaen's St. Francis opera with Nagano leading the Halle Orchestra and Arnold Schoenberg Choir is one of my desert island discs.
Telarc/Soundstream apparently thought enough of the Slatkin to reissue the recording on SACD-DSD disk, apparently before Telarc closed shop. I remember hearing the performance live. I'll never forget Battle's first entrance--it had to be as close to an angel singing while descending from heaven as we'll get here on earth.
Fascinating video as always!
I’m very glad you mentioned Nagano. I stumbled randomly on it on TH-cam a while ago and I thought ( and still do ) that it’s the most beautiful (and perhaps the best recorded) Mahler 8 I have ever heard.
I never heard the full 3 by Salonen but I also randomly found the last 25 minutes of it when he played it with the Philharmonia Orchestra and it’s absolutely gorgeous.
I heard CSO/DB in Mahler 5 at the Proms a few days after this Cologne live concert was recorded back in September 1998. The concert was electrifying with a Birtwistle premier in the fist half. Most notably, this was Adolph Herseth's final tour after decades as CSO principal trumpet and his final performances of Mahler's 5th.
Agree 100% with you about Slatkin's magnificent M2. For me, 10/10.
This is a fascinating list.
Great list👍
In early 2000"s a friend of mine was moving back to Warsaw Poland after he had finished his studies in America, and wanted to take back some American orchestra recordings.
I gave him my Slatkin/Telarc Mahler 1 & 2. Glad I did it (he still has them) but sadly never replaced them...I miss them😢
I'm not really sure if that qualifies as a "one-shot wonder", but I feel obliged to talk about Charles Mackerras, whose Mahler recordings are still widely ignored. And it's a crime.
Even myself, who already owns lots of Mackerras recordings, I only found out very recently that he recorded the first symphony in Liverpool for EMI. And what a first that is! It's absolutely stunning, easily in my top 5 recordings of this symphony.
There's also a terrific fifth with the same orchestra (which may be a bit more well-known?)
Finally, he also recorded a live sixth with the BBC Philharmonic. And even though the fact that Mackerras chose to place the Andante second may be controversial, he manages to sell it. Of course.
He did the 4th too. I agree--the 1st and 5th are fabulous. I was thinking of including one of them in the list.
Fortunately, the Slatkin Mahler 2nd is streaming on Spotify.
I pulled out Pappano's 6 and was delightfully surprised. The first-movement tempo is perfect (for once), and the sound, while somewhat wooly, works well with the aerated textures and beautiful pianissimos.
That’s certainly a concept off the beaten path! I don’t imagine there’s any other composer who would fit into it.
First, regarding Thomas Sanderling's Mahler 6th. It is available for download from Amazon Music. I agree that it is very, very good.
Second, relating to Barenboim's Mahler 5th, I have it on a DVD of the performance recorded in Cologne while the CSO was on tour. At the end of the concert while the applause continues, Barenboim is given a bunch of roses. He takes one and walks to the back of the orchestra where Bud Herseth was sitting intending to give him the rose. Instead, Herseth put his trumpet forward and Barenboim dropped it into the bell of the horn. A sight never to forget. And the performance also featured principal horn Dale Clevenger at the peak of his powers.
Mahler 10, Kurt Sanderling, Berlin SO, Berlin Classics
This is great fun! I am surprised that the Reiner/Chicago Das Leid von der Erde didn't capture that slot in your list. Love the Nagano 8 pick.
The very first Mahler 2 CD I bought was Slatkin.
The Slatkin 2nd has given me goose-bumps every time I've listened to it, and I've had it since it was first released. I have not heard any recording that has better soloists or a more rousing finale. I've always wondered why it did not get more mention, and I'm glad to hear Dave extoll its virtues. The best performance, recorded or live that I've ever heard of the third was performed by the New England Conservatory Orchestra and Chorus back in the 70s. It was not recorded (as far as I know) but it showed what can happen when a group is extremely well rehearsed. Everyone was tightly together and they all felt the music the same way. Perhaps they were all young enough for it to be their first experience performing the piece so they were not going through the motions. I'm not sure who conducted, likely Gunther Shuller.
I really wish the Salonen performance of the 3rd with the Philharmonia was released on streaming or something. Really amazing performance.
it's on spotify
@@MorganHayes_Composer.Pianist The Philharmonia performance? I see the LA Phil, but not the Philharmonia.
@@ashpathcs you’re right, the LA Phil one .
Salonen is available for streaming on Spotify ( at least in Sweden)
Slatkin is an interesting case. That second is phenomenal. But his first, also on Telarc, was a real dog. The Mazzetti 10th he did for RCA was not bad, but I also do not much care for the work. If you can find it, the St. Louis Symphony issued his Mahler fifth from a live performance as part of a commemorative box set at the end of his time as conductor with the ensemble. It is incredible, easily the finest I've heard. Having heard him conduct the seventh live (and produce a remarkable concert with it), I can attest that he is uneven in Mahler but also capable of extraordinary performances.
Nagano also did the third, one of my introductions to Mahler back when I was a teen, remembered it being quite splendid. He was supposed to start recording a live cycle with the Israel Philharmonic over a few seasons, and then the corona happened and that plan fell before it started.
Too early in his career to call it a one hit wonder but I thought Rafael Payare's performance of Mahler's 5th with the Montreal Symphony was outstanding. So far it is his only recording. Recently saw him conduct the Philadelphia Orchestra in Mahler's 1st which was also excellent. I think he has Mahler in his blood but time will tell.
Loved the inclusion of Muti and the Philadelphia Orchestra in this list. That was my first encounter with Mahler. Prior to hearing this recording classical music was something I played in the background while studying. After this recording it became a lifelong passion.
When I saw the title, the first one recording that popped into my head was the Previn Mahler Fourth. Previn definitely was not associated with Mahler, but I vaguely remember Dave saying nice things about that recording.
It's a great Mahler 4, but since I'd already recommended it elsewhere I thought I'd give Davis a chance.
This is a great idea(unfortunately it's gonna cost me money)! Salonen & Oue are the only ones I have, and I agree that they are superb.
I have to say, I thought Salonen's 3rd was a knockout... until the final 30 seconds. The bass drum gives the coda the wrong feel.
As for my cycle,
1st- Mackerras
2nd- Slatkin and SLSO- also used in my ideal cycle, also available for download on Presto.
3rd- Litton and Dallas- also an ideal pick, and this could be a great modern reference, you know, if anyone else heard it.
4th- Previn and Pittsburgh, fantastic although Ameling does not turn in one of my favorite accounts of the finale
5- Barshai
6- Sanderling and St. Petersburg- available on Amazon to download.
7- Alexandre Bloch and thr Orchestre national de Lille- maybe my favorite Mahler 7th.
8-Nagano- This is my least favorite Mahler symphony, but I love the thick atmosphere here.
9- Pesak and Royal Liverpool- an under the radar great if ever there was one.
Das Lied- I am a Minnesota man, and I love the Oue performance. I think this is the best MN Mahler on disc, in my opinion. I can see why Vanska skipped Das Lied. He had to know it would look pale in comparison
Mackerras..his Mahler 6 for BBC music mag is just splendid, as is his 4th with Philharmonia. Is there anything this genius couldn’t do?!?
His 5 with Liverpool is in the Icon box. They play their hearts out for him.
I have the number 2 and number 9, and Das Lied von der Erde. I feel that the Slatkin Mahler 2 is a real sleeper. The Mahler Ninth with Alan Gilbert is one of the best out there. Oue's Das Lied can compete with any recording out there.
A great list! I really love so many of these. I'm working from memory, so don't have a full list, but:
1. Thierry Fischer
2. Andrew Litton
3. Neeme Järvi (he made a few, but this is the best)
4. André Previn, like everyone else said
5. Rafael Payare
6.
7. Alexandre Bloch (so good!)
8. Robert Shaw (I know...)
9.
Lied.
For some reason I actually like Boulez' 9th
What a neat idea!!! Salonen’s M3 is really fine, even when I (as a trombonist) look past the first class playing from Ralph Sauer on the first movement soliloquy. The old Mehta recording is excellent, but Salonen need not bow to anyone.
Could one assemble a similar cycle of one-shot recordings of Beethoven symphonies? Or Bruckner? Or Nielsen? Or Shostakovich?
I must admit, I haven't encountered any of the discs which Dr. Hurwirz discusses here. But I fully agree with him on the undesirability of recording an entire cycle if there are works in that cycle that don't inspire a performer. The world is full of recordings made solely through a misguided desire for completeness. We don't need any more.
You’ve already got my cogs turning for Shostakovich. Morton Gould for Symphonies 2 & 3, Slatkin for either 4 or 8, Boult for 6, Previn or Muti for 13, thought required for others. Edited to add: Stokowski for 11 and Karajan for 10.
I get to hear Salonen do the 3rd in San Francisco in June. I'll have to watch out for that bass drum. I also recently received the SF Symphony's 2024-25 calendar--one day after hearing the news that Salonen is resigning.
Didn't he just get there?
@@DavesClassicalGuide Yeah, but there's been some disagreements with the SFS board and I guess due to financial concerns they're gonna be relying on more traditional concert fare and not the more ambitious and contemporary music that Salonen wants to focus on.
When the actual purpose became clear to me, I was instantly certain of three recordings that would feature, since they perfectly fit the bill:
- #2 with Kaplan/LSO/Valente/Forrester (quite a lot better than expected)
- #4 with Previn/Pittsburgh/Ameling (really, a great one)
- #8 with Wít/Warsaw (not heard it, but it garnered a lot of fame)
Wrong on all counts. Such fun! I was most wrong of all about Wít, because I've missed all the other Mahlers he did. No one-shot wonder he.
Another option for a one-shot Mahler 3rd is the terrific Martinon recording in Chicago (a live one if I remember correctly)
Not officially issued other than by the orchestra in a special edition.
Great idea and nice list. I would try to find a place for both Giulini and Kurt Sanderling. Maybe #1 for the former and #9 for the latter?
Muti ha diretto anche una meravigliosa quarta sinfonia ad Amsterdam con i Wiener. L'ho ascoltata su TH-cam. Peccato che non ci sia il CD e peccato che Muti, a quanto ne so, non abbia diretto altre sinfonie
How about the 'sleepers' series? I've never been disappointed in your 'sleepers'. Most recently I listened to the Albert Catell/Wislocki Dvorak cello concerto from your podcast about the concerto best recordings, what a lovely discovery!
Another contender for #1 was the one-time wonderboy Jacek Kaspzcyk (I think I have that right...) who did what was to my ears a very creditable version. The Gramophone did NOT agree.
Kaspczyk has since become a lot more obscure, but is still working.
Gosh, I've only heard one on that list. I must get busy. I was hoping you would list Totenfeier conducted by Victor Borge 🙃
Oh I enjoyed this talk very much. Off I did trot to listen to the Slatkin, the Nagano, and the Das Lied. The 2nd and the Das Lied are wonderful performances. I've been a fan of Solti's 8th for as long as I can remember so I found Nagano's lush approach such a contrast it took me a while to sink in and enjoy it. I'm so used to hearing Solti drive that performance home as if his life depended on it that the contrast with Nagano is like switching from a formula one car to a rolls royce. My only niggle is the tempo has those poor sopranos struggling with intonation during those final high passages. Off to listen to some more now.
If you want a more interesting one off 7th, you could go for Alexandre Bloch with Orchestra National de Lille on Alpha. An absolute knock out
Yes, it's excellent, but I wanted the Czech Phil on there.
dave, i don't know if this is gonna sound odd or stupid but i've been heartbroken for the last 3 weeks and finding some sort of comfort in sibeliu's music, especially in the ballade moviment from the karelia suite, it has gained, for me, a whole new meaning, a whole new range of beauty, and i was wondering if this would not be a good ideia for a list, of music for heartbreaks. i suppose it does sound stupid, but these matters with the heart generaly are.
No, it's not stupid at all. The problem is that I think it will be very personal to each listener, and I hesitate to propose a list.
Very interesting. I'd have plumped for Previn's absolutely sublime Mahler 4 with the Pittsburgh symphony: terrific. I don't think Previn did any other Mahler.
I must look out for Salonen's Mahler 3. If he did change the orchestration at the end then good on him! I always thought the very last bars needed something "extra" at the end, that it doesn't really properly cap what has been - up to that point - profoundly moving.
I'd love to agree. After Dave's recommendation, I dialed-up the recording on streaming. Indeed, the first 2/3 of the opening movement are incredible... and then the whole thing begins to inexplicably fall apart and go downhill. It is a shame because it is immaculately recorded and frankly Pittsburgh has never sounded more glorious than they do here. On the whole, I find the disc sub-par after blowing everyone else out of the water in most of the first movement.
Salonen really conducted an outstanding Third Symphony. Really one of my favorites. But for me he's not a one shot wonder. He also had Das Lied and Symphonies 4, 6, and 9. My real one shot wonder for Symphony no. 3 is Heinz Rögner. A wonderful and individual recording. I particularly like the post horn solo. It seems so authentic because it is not played on a trumpet as usual.
Not fair, Dave picked a lot of the plums, but an another one shot cycle might include:
1 - Dresden/Suitner
4 - Philharmonia/Loose/Kletzki
5 - Junge Deutsche Philharmonie/Barshai
8 - Warsaw/Wit
DLvdE - Haefliger/Merriman/Dresden/Jochum
Can I circle this back to the reference recordings? Your review for Classics Today declares Ivan Fischer’s 2006 Mahler 2 recording a reference recording. How does that circumstance arise: one where, against an esteemed catalog of high-profile recordings of the work, a 2006 entry-however excellent it may be-earns “reference” status? Thanks.
At ClassicsToday critics choose personal "reference recordings," as so many do here, and not always the "consensus" pick, as I'm trying to describe in these videos. Note that the Fischer is "a" reference, and not "the" reference. I really don't think the 2nd has the latter at all.
Speaking of Salonen, any interest in talking about the issues surrounding his departure from San Francisco? Concerned that this may be a harbinger of what may be happening to some of our better orchestras.
I thought you might choose Previn / Pittsburgh for 4th (warner). I haven't heard the Davis and must seek it out.
Dave, have you changed your mind about Salonen? In the comments on the best M3 recordings you wrote "I can't forgive Salonen the bass drum whacks added at the end, doubling the timpani. I heard him do it live too, but it's totally the opposite of what Mahler intended." I am a bit confused.
Why? It's a splendid performance otherwise. I said before, I don't like what he did, but he had the right to do it.
The big question is….when will we get a complete Mahler cycle from Dudamel? [shrug]
Great talk, Dave. Unfortunately could not find Salonen’s Mahler 3rd. Am so curious now😢
That's an excellent list, Dave. I agree with everyone one of those. Just one nit-picky, annoying point. Ashkenazy has recorded a complete Mahler cycle in Australia for Exton. It even includes a decent performance of M10 in the Barshai version. That being the case, I'll state that I like the Eliahu Inbal/Czech Phil. M7 on Exton as much or more than the Ashkenazy. But they're both perfectly fine. In fact, Kobayashi and Z. Macal have also recorded M7 with the Czech Phil. for Exton - who actually have four Czech Phil. M7 recordings!!! Good luck finding them all, of course.
I know, but most of that cycle was dreadful and he’s not known as a Mahler conductor (maybe in part for that reason).
I can't agree with the bass drum doubling. It was performed under Mahler, if he wanted the obliteration of the D-A pitches in the timpani and cellos/basses Mahler would have added the bass drum. I don't think Mahler wanted the vulgarity intentionally written that we hear in the Shostakovich #5
I don't "agree" with it either, but I respect his right to do it in the context of what is otherwise a very fine and thoughtful performance. Now if it were garbage from the get-go, I'd feel differently.
That Ashkenazy M7 is well done if not quite top-flight. Ashkenazy did another decent M7 with the Sydney Symphony, as good as the Czech one if not better.
Not.
Salonen was good on the 3rd. and is a wonderful conductor.
Salonen has a 4th, 6th, a 9th and LvdE in addition to this 3rd, so not really one-shot.
Nagano has a 3rd and LvdE, but I agree, that's less than half-a-cycle.
Most conductors these days have done more Mahler than has been recorded systematically, but my point was that some had very few and others may have a bit more but aren't known for being Mahler conductors.
Salonen did a great performance of the 3rd with the Dresden Staatskapelle at the 2011 Leipzig Mahler Festival. The Oue is a really fine performance let down by de Young's wide vibrato. There exists a live M1 with Muti and the Philadelphians as a gift for donors. One big disagreement in the Barenboim M5 with Chicago. Sounds like he's conducting Bruckner. Man has no business conducting Mahler. Heard a live M9 with him and his Berlin band...dullsville.
Agreed about the 9th, but that 5th is excellent and the Bruckner swipe really doesn't mean anything.