Repertoire: The BEST Mahler Fifth Symphony
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 พ.ค. 2024
- Is this symphony jinxed? Why did "echt" Mahlerians like Solti, Bernstein, Abbado, Haitink, and so many others play it so poorly on at least one (if not more) of their recordings? The best versions may not be the ones you'd be most likely to expect.
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I have that Barshai recording.... LOVE IT.
Ditto - and man, that 10th - whatever you think of Barshai's orchestration / completion, that performance is my favorite of all the ones on disc.
@@rgthorpe2001Barshai's 10th actually sounds like Mahler.
Tennstedt on EMI released 1979, 2011 remaster sounds wonderful also.
Tennstedt was born to conduct Mahler.
My timpani teacher at Juilliard taught me that the 2nd movement of Mahler 5 is a timpani concerto! This piece is a major blow for everyone involved!
Very glad you included Abbado/CSO, as that was my first recording and the vehicle by which I learned the work. I still think it's one of the best, and it's good to know that..it's not just me. I once heard his later recording and was soooooo delighted that I didn't spend my hard earned money on it.
I was delighted and moved to see that you chose Levine as your top recommendation. That was how I first discovered the work years ago, thanks to one of my friends who was a great fan of the recording and Mahler in general. Sadly, he passed away last year--so this brings back some bittersweet memories. I haven't heard Levine's recording in a long time and am eager to give it a fresh listen. Thank you.
I really enjoy your talk. As there are so many recordings of Mahler 5th to choose from, I didn't know which one to choose. I'm glad you mentioned Karajan's recording. This is the one I used to own and listen to very often when I was a college student.
So glad I found your channel, and this video! Great respect to any and all musicians, especially those who can absorb and play such music. I discovered Mahler's 5th in 1982 and it remains the symphony I love above all others
Welcome aboard!
Glad you mentioned the Stenz in Melbourne. It is by far my favorite.
Karajan Mahler 5 is a favourite of mine. Great sound & structure.
Thanks for highlighting Mehta. great recording We were fortunate to hear him do a memorable performance of this before the recording live in St. Louis when the N Y Phil visited on the Bell Labs/AT&T Great Orchestra touring series. (in a time when corporate America's philanthropy extended to the arts rather than only to Wall Street).
Rosbaud is one of my favorite conductors particularly for Mahler's Fifth Symphony. Thank you for sharing.
I am working my way through Mahler and I use your recommendations as the foundation stones of my consideration. I bought your recommendation of Marcus Stenz from the MSO as that is my local orchestra and I was pleased to see you give it a nod. I love it! It is fabulously played and the sonics are great. I since saw them play the 3rd and that was fabulous too. I hope it's released a recording. Thanks for the tip!
Oh, glad I found this one - just starting to devour Mahler, and of course I started with Bernstein - thanks to this, I found/purchased the Stands/Melbourne AND the Levine/Philly versions. Can't wait to hear both. Much obliged - I learn something from every video.
THANK YOU David!!! I knew 20+ version.... not Levine's. Totally amazing. And VERY well recorded. Perfection, really.
You're very welcome!
@David Hurwitz so happy to see you got the Karajan because for me he and those gorgeous Bpo strings created the most sublime, heavenly, soul stirring time stands still adaggietto. i wanna check out the mehta because i got his 2nd with the vpo and its superb and also dig the barbirolli who for all of his expansiveness makes one of the swiftest adaggietto's that still retains its sublime beauty.
that mehta new york recording is awesome. such textbook brass playing and wonderful trumpet moments from the whole section, particularly from the principal trumpet phil smith. definitely my favorite mahler 5 and probably my favorite mahler recording ever.
Per your recommendation I found the Barshai and Junge Deutsche Orchestra. OMG. What an inspired performance! The clarity of the lines and the interplay between the horns, woodwinds and strings. The recording sparkles. And the pacing seems just right. WONDERFUL! I feel they are all pouring out their hearts and souls. The applause at the end is so well deserved! THANK YOU-
Yes! Their 10th is excellent too.
I was lucky to have heard Solti and CSO do the 5th in SF. It was the most exciting classical concert I've ever heard. The audience gasped at the pluck string at the end of the first movement. Sounded like they would blow the roof right off the opera house. The audience stood in unison and cheered! I've never heard any orchestra sound like that and doubt I ever will again. I also very much like Sinopoli's recording.
Hi David, I am new to your channel and I am listening (on TH-cam) to your suggested Hans Rosbaud Mahler 5th and it is INCREDIBLE! For a 1951 recording, the sound engineers capture a sonic masterpiece. This orchestra plays with confidence, ambition, and apparent joy. Thanks for your dedicated hard work to recommend this rendition.
Welcome aboard! So glad you enjoyed it!
Great recommendations! Others I'd like to add are the later Inbal on Exton, from 2013 in Tokyo, and the live Kubelik on Audite, from Munich in 1981. There are many more I like or find fascinating for different reasons, such as the 1958 Schwarz on Everest, but the above two are among my handful favorites.
I saw Solti and his Chicago play the Mahler 5th years ago (1971) at Dartmouth College. Yes, the little College had two separate nights of Chicago. Both different programs. Anyway, the Mahler was stunning. Yes, I know many can not stomach Solti's recorded version with Chicago. But for me, that live extravaganza and Solti's first recorded performance reside always in my heart. (I have the first version in both LP and cd. Purchased that LP the day after the Hanover concert. I could not wait to hear it again.)
Thanks for another fine essay. My mother bought the LPs of Karajan’s 5 for the Kindertötenlieder, which she had studied back in the day, but the coupling could not have been better; when I was a young thing I transferred it to cassette so as not to wear out the vinyls. Later I bought the Barbirolli as well, mainly as those Grammophone reviewers you often disagree with raved about Sir John B, but it is a good recording too.
Stenz did a complete cycle of the symphonies here in Melbourne (a few of which were recorded, obviously, and one of which - the Eighth - I performed in, as one of the supernumeraries of the massed choirs) but I think he treated them as a learning experience for the cycle he got to do later; maybe he was taking things too easy at Köln, that he thought he had solved all of his problems and didn’t have to apply the same effort?
I have to say, having looked up that Scherchen on TH-cam - it is an utter DOG! An unbelievably shameful disgrace, but quite funny to listen in a perverse way (yes, party album time) and it made me think of this rather unfortunate Pavlovian response to the opening four notes of Mahler 5 from a trumpet player’s dogs!
th-cam.com/video/oq1JShEmLsk/w-d-xo.html
One of my most memorable concert experience was the Vienna Philharmonic in Budapest with Blomstedt I think. They played the Mahler 5th. That was the first time I've heard them and I was completely blown away with that beautiful, rich, colorful, truly symphonic orchestral sound. It was a unforgettable performance. After that I've heard them in Vienna with Barenboim playing Maher 9th. That performance was routine and the orchestral sound was dull.
David, it's so great to see you. I just got the Levine Mahler box on your recommendation, especially of 5. I have to say I agree 100% with you and absolutely love Kaderabek's opening solo. Such character and balls! The entire recording blows away everything I've ever heard on record and you know I've heard a few! Levine gets on with it and it really does make a difference. I think many conductors get caught up in the textural and emotional complexity of Mahler's music and forget about the inner rhythmic drive necessary to give his music it's due. Bravo, my friend.
Thanks Damon. II hope all's well with you and the whole family.
The Adagietto is on the slower side at almost 12 minutes which isn’t fashionable these days, but it is gorgeous with so many great moments, like the glissando back to the first theme or the slap of those double basses at the climax of the movement.
Back in the 1970s, I had season tickets for the L.A. Philharmonic during Mehta’s conductorship. His Mahler 5 was one of his most memorable concerts. I have never heard a recording where the contrapuntal lines were so finely delineated.
Levine was the first I listened to - it was in my university’s CD colllection - and keep coming back to it. The Adagietto is stunning, I’m not sure I’ve heard better string playing in any piece.
I still haven’t found a better version and perhaps never will.
Some years ago, on a whim, I bought the Kondrashin 5th on the "Audiophile Classics" (pirate?) label for $2.99 or $3.99 or thereabouts. I enjoyed it--except for the last movement, where the entire orchestra went all-out crazy. It all seemed so over-the-top to me that what immediately came to mind was not Mahler but "circus music." Once I had that notion in my head, I couldn't get it out of my head, and so I sold the disc, at a small profit, on eBay. How clever was I?
Well, naturally, in due course I came to suffer from seller's regret. Even today, whenever anyone mentions that recording, I kick myself for having gotten rid of it so cavalierly So thanks for reminding me of it, Dave! ;-)
(The Kondrashin recording is posted on TH-cam, so I just gave it another listen. Yep, the final movement still sounds like "circus music." But now I really get a kick out of that weird wildness. After all, who needs Haitinkian politeness and restraint all the time?)
I started all of Mahler with this recording and it was like a thanderclap, and Kondrashi has a lot of exellent records.
I'm glad you started with Rosbaud. I had only just recently discovered his recording after hearing him mentioned in passing in other reviews. I'd include the Tennstedt live recording with London PO (what tragic energy!). The Inbal/Frankfurt recording is worth checking out. Tempi are slow and the mood is expansive, but the performance is persuasive and the sound opulent. No surprises with Chicago, though the early Solti is very worthy. I never heard the Abbado, but will check it out (I like his Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique with Chicago better than Solti's)!
Funny, the first one in my collection (pre-CD 80's) was a taped copy I made of a library LP of Abravanel/Utah. I remember being especially pleased that it managed to fit onto a single 60 minute cassette!
Thanks Dave for another entertaining and illuminating talk. I haven't heard the Mehta or the Levine (do we even talk about Jimmy's records now?) but otherwise my favourites are very much the same as yours: Bernstein/Vienna, Karajan and Barbirolli, and also the lesser known Barshai and Stenz recordings.
The one thing that for me is essential in Mahler 5 is to get right the passage at Fig. 18 near the end of the first movement. This is marked Klagend and the whole orchestra is fff (except the percussion - and the second and third trombone, I wonder why?) with horns and trumpets also playing bells up. This is a terrifying moment and the effect should be absolutely shattering. Too many performances just let it pass. One that doesn't is the Abbado/Berlin recording. I get what you say about Abbado getting fussy in his later years but I do think his Mahler 5 is the real deal.
Glad you mentioned the Abbado, because I know your opinion of his later Mahler work and I agree that it's fussy and overcooked. His Chicago work seems excellent though--not only this 5th but the 7th too which offers a bit of light into a work I'm still struggling to appreciate. One other 5th that I found surprisingly good was Kubelik's with the Bavarian. It's probably the paciest of all (about 68 minutes if I recall) but the third movement is magical. Many conductors don't seem to know quite what to do with that enormous scherzo, but Kubelik revels in it and the trumpet and French horn playing are stupendous.
Thanks a lot David for all that great info on the Mahler 5th!!! I agree with all of your findings on it. From a personal viewpoint I have always liked the first on with CSO/Solti. It is so exciting to hear an orchestra play with this power and control. Since I play trombone I guess that makes sense to me. Anyway I wanted to know if you have heard Mahler 5 done on Conifer with Daniele Gatti and the Royal Philharmonic Orch. It was released in the late 90s. I think you would really like it and I would like to send you a recording of it if you want it. He delves deep into the score. The playing is exciting also. Thanks again and I'll be watching!!!!
Yes, I have heard the Gatti.
I can't imagine having the time in this one life to get beyond the version that blew my mind. That is, the very first. Kubelik.
I was lucky enough to hear George Manahan play this piece like fireworks! Most reviewers scorn Karajan's 5th, but it has some telling moments. For instance, when the Adagietto theme recurs in the finale, Karajan is almost the only one to note the "grazioso" direction, and the strings shape it that way. An essential recording.
I had a recording of this by Andrew Litton w/ the Dallas Symphony. I recall liking it a lot, though I also recall I had to crank the volume all the way up to actually *hear* it ...
I heard Solti conduct this live in Bass Hall, Austin, TX back in 1986, I think. Herseth didn't have his best night...the opening trumpet tune didn't come off too well. The rest was OK, but the REAL gem of the evening was the Haydn Drumroll Symphony.
Side note...the concert was delayed for almost two hours, as the instrument truck was involved in a highway accident en route. Many instruments were damaged and some string players resorted to borrowed instruments from the U. of Texas. With that in mind, I suppose the Mahler 5 went pretty well. I know as a performer that something like that can really put the players off their best game.
For me one of the curious things about hearing so many recordings of the Mahler Fifth is how the Adagietto movement seems almost like a separate work inserted into the body of another.
This may be due in part to how often the movement is presented separately, but the one recording where it does sound like a natural, integral part of a larger work is Karajan.
And what I am saying here with regard to the Adagietto also goes for all the other movements: I am not a trained musician, but by my ears alone no other recording presents each movement of this symphony as organically connected to the others as does Karajan and the Berlin Philharmonic.
It is easily the most singular sounding recording I have ever heard.
David, your mention of the rough trumpet start for Berlin/Abbado at Carnegie reminded me of an audio cassette I have buried somewhere of a MN Orch live concert radio broadcast of the Mahler 5th. When the trumpeter played the initial C# triplet (which on a "C" trumpet is played with all three valves pressed down) and then lifted the 3rd valve in order to play the E♮ which followed, the valve stuck halfway up. What came out was a muffled, choking sound. He was forced to stop. You could hear him work that valve a few times, and begin again. The performance went ahead fine, but as a trumpet player, hearing that evoked sympathy and terror!
I can well imagine! But Abbado's trumpeter didn't stop. He just continued, cracking along the way. It was horrifying.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I'm trying to imagine which is worse - both are the stuff of nightmares. Can I relate a performance error of my own? Late 70's at Juilliard Prep. Our conductor is grad student Myung-whun Chung. I'm on 1st tpt for Rienzi Overture , which begins with that quiet note which then crescendos. Something happened in performance that never happened in rehearsal - he gives the down beat, I go to play the note, and it doesn't speak - no sound. He stops, looks right at me, and gives me the beat again. This time it speaks. I committed a silent error!
@@jokinboken The best kind!
I heard an equally unfortunate evening in Mahler 5 at Carnegie by the principal trumpet of the London Symphony under Tilson Thomas. The poor guy cracked badly on the upper C# in opening fanfare and never recovered for the rest of the symphony. He was clearly a good enough player to get the LSO gig but was just having a very off night. At the end of the performance MTT was asked all of the various players who had solo parts to stand individually, including the trumpeter. I think everyone was more embarrassed for him at that point than during the performance but it would have been just as bad had MTT avoided him, I guess.
@@haroldstover5834 Poor guy.
I'm glad you mentioned Karajan's recording. He's not usually my go-to guy for Mahler, but in this case it comes together wonderfully. I think the reason is that he somehow brings out the Bohemian character of the music, which is something I demand from any Mahler performance. "Sleekly proficient" is not good enough, and Mahler never wrote a "concerto for orchestra"! BTW, I've read that Mahler kept tweaking the orchestration of the 5th and was never completely satisfied with it, so I guess maybe a part of the problem is with the score rather than the musicians.
David, tonight I heard a performance by the National Youth Orchestra, conducted by Daniel Harding at Carnegie Hall. I don’t know when it was recorded. Their ages were 16-19. I have some quibbles with it, sonics and such. but I was impressed. They played their hearts out. It was more of a lyrical than a, what’s the word, crisp (?) performance. But it didn’t lack for dynamics and drive. I enjoyed it. I mean kids did that!
I saw Solti in Chicago playing 5 and it was edge of your seat exciting.
My first was Mehta w LA on LPs. Love at first hearing.
Many Fifth's I've listened to, and for me the best are James Conlon with the Gürzenich Orchestra, very well executed and clear sound, and Klaus Tennstedt with The London Philharmonic Orchestra, in a live recording from 1988. Very exciting execution, especially in the last movement.
Glad to hear very favorable view of the Karajan. Heard some critics put it down. Can't figure that out. Any reason Mahler shouldn't sound "too beautiful"? I've always loved it. The strings are incredibly gorgeous & emotional throughout, the BPO is amazing all round. I think Karajan's opening funeral march packs the biggest punch of the ones I've heard. Have to check out the Stenz, since this is one of my fave all time pieces in all of music.
@@laurentcompagna6166I agree. The ensemble is not good. Each time there’s a tempo change it’s a mess
Of my four or five recordings of this, my favorite by far is Wyn Morris and the Symphonica of London. Morris was (is?) a rather celebrated Mahlerian, I understand, and this recording came highly recommended to me. Wonderful sound, excellent pacing, totally committed reading, captures all the syncopations and "confusions" in the score but also captures all the emotional depth, great biting trumpets, great horns too, wonderful crescendos and diminuendos in the strings, adagietto well-paced not glacial, and an exceptional scherzo.
Glad the Kondrashin got a mention . It was on a cheaper branch of EMI (Greensleves) and the only one within my budget as a teenager. Proved to be a great intro to the piece. Overlooked completely by the Penguin Record Guide and others.
Hard to find and not the best sound but Paray's live Detroit recording on Tahara is a one I like to hear. Barshai, Bernstein II, Karajan and Levine are my normal go to recordings. I will have to check out that Stenz though now.
Played it on viola a few years ago... there are notes all over the place, huge leaps, and lots of string crossings in the 3rd movement, which is definitely the hardest. In the Rondo, we ended up faking the broken-thirds run at the end... played it as doubled quarter note scales, divisi in thirds
The odds are simply stacked against the string players with this one. A scherzo that's not easy on the rhythm, leaps and contrasts. An adagietto that taxes technical endurance in a completely different way, and then a rondo that will defeat anyone left standing.
Mahler 7 is even more fear inducing for similar reasons, but with an added difficulty of tonal ambiguity, and the polar opposites of the utmost seriously technical intensity against a rambunctious/chaotic/joyful character.
Rosbaud is my favorite! I'm glad you talked about Scherchen after your other Scherchen video because those two live recordings are perhaps the most lunatic recordings of any Mahler. One dark horse recording I like is Suitner with Staatskapelle Berlin, though I don't like the engineering as much as the interpretive choices.
Oh, and I can't wait for the Mahler SWR box! The 4th, 7th, and Das Lied von der Erde are definitely up there for me.
Agreed regarding Suitner.
Karajan's was my introduction to the Fifth - actually my introduction to Mahler (the 2 LP set coupled with Ludwig's Kindertotenlieder borrowed from a library). What an introduction! However Sinopoli with the Philharmonia on DG is my first choice - wonderful interpretation leading to a thrilling climax in the final movement.
Yes- I agree. I have always rated Sinopoli’s 5th as it seems to flow naturally especially the first movement. Other versions seem slightly too slow here and as a result can sound mannered and a bit laboured. My other heretical viewpoint is that I think Boulez isn’t bad in the 5th either. He always seems to want to reproduce what the composer actually wrote but I accept that he does not go out of his way to underline, a la Bernstein, some of the emotional opportunities presented in the
@@bertranddaldy9748 nice to know I'm not completely alone in the wilderness on Sinopoli! I'll check out the Boulez (I enjoyed his Sixth with the VPO on DG). Thanks again
Karajan’s success in this symphony is fascinating (or, at least, for me 😂). I would have thought that his sound would be so against Mahler’s desired sound, (which can be so “folky”, and woodwinds play such a part). But Karajan’s works so well in this symphony! The second mvt is where I can notice that emphasis on strings and brass the most, and wow is it great to hear! Mahler and Karajan uniting well musically 💯
I like the first Solti, and went and heard him do the Mahler 5 in Chicago for the 2nd go around. It was so loud at times I had to cover my ears, but otherwise I found myself completely unengaged. I went to hear the performance again, thinking that maybe I was just in the wrong mood, but still I found myself unmoved. I was happily surprised to see you mention the Barenboim recording. I like the Barenboim CSO Mahler 5, but kept that to myself, fearing embarrassment. Who knew!
Never fear embarrassment. I am a walking testament to the art of self-humiliation. Like what you like and be proud of it.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Yes, good advice. I'm getting to that point now.
Great video as always!
Dave, when you talk about a conductor’s first or second recording of a piece (with the same orchestra), if you gave the date of each, that’d be really helpful in searching out the one you recommend. (Obviously when the recordings are with different orchestras, that makes it easy.)
Usually one is digital and the other analogue. I usually say so and that makes it even easier.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thanks Dave, that’s great
I'd like to put in a shout out to the Bertini/Cologne Radio Sym. 5th. He keeps things fresh and moving along which is how my taste runs in this symphony.
Hi! David, I am so glad you brought up Kondrashin, I also gave him for his Mahler 9 especially the last movement, it just teared me apart heartbrokenly. I was wondering if you had the chance listened to Sinopoli and Dudamel, I like them both, and since you have such broad knowledge about conductors and symphonies, do you think you can make a series talk a about conductors and theirs recording those from post-war to the 80's (Furtwangler, Celibidache, Wand, Neuman, Mravinsky.......). Thanks much!
Thanks for your suggestion. It has come up before--I can do conductor (or any artist) surveys and probably will, eventually, but right now I'm just getting started and I am much more interested in covering repertoire, both familiar and unfamiliar. In general, I'm not a "fan" of artists.
@@DavesClassicalGuide got it. I saw your Abbado/Vienna box set, it covered so much staffs and I've learned a lot, it was wonderful ! I hope your desire of producing conductors will come back again in the future. Thanks for getting back to me, have a bless day!
@@yenchinlee1985 That is different. I will always cover boxed sets, by both artists and ensembles because those relate to conveniently available or packaged recordings. What I hesitate to do is discographies that may involve stuff that is long out of print or hard to source. I don't want to make people crazy looking for individual recordings (although I will make exceptions that I think are especially interesting, as in the recent talk about Maurice Abravanel). I also want to avoid suggesting that any one version is THE only one to have, because that is almost never true or necessary. We have so much really fine stuff from which to choose. So there will be conductor surveys coming if they relate to specific (re)issues. I hope that makes my thinking about this clearer. Thanks again. Dave
@@DavesClassicalGuide Got it. Thank you for being considerable while you are influential to so many of us, but I always thought that subjectivity brings out all your true passion and valuable knowledge. I'd like to tell you honestly that I check out all the ranking recordings you suggested (except the bad ones you've mentioned), and I always found 85% agreed. they were all found on TH-cam (some I already own, some I liked and buy them from Amazon/eBay), I really think you don't have to worry about people can't find them to listen, perhaps some can't be find to buy, but almost all of them are exist on TH-cam.
Tennstedt's live recording on EMI with the London symphony orchestra is my favorite. As you've said many times before, Tennstedt is best live and this is no exception.
I love Tenstedt's GM1 with the CSO...never heard a better GM1
@@Harriet-JesamineTennstedt got a lot of love and response from any American orchestra he conducted. His death was our loss. I hope that someone will write a biography of this troubled but fascinating musician.
Barbirolli's recording always impresses me.
Me too. I had the good fortune to see him conduct the Mahler ninth here in L.A. not long before his death. What a memorable concert that was. Oddly paired with the Haydn Sym. 83.
I'm almost certain that Solti's Chicago Mahler 5th was his first recording with the orchestra. It was also one of the first (if not the first) recordings the orchestra made at the Krannert Center at the University of Illinois in Champaign/Urbana. I used to have the Karajan on LP, but I do have the Mehta and Barenboim recordings you mentioned. Go figure. That's what moving does to record collections.
Their 5th was recorded at Medinah. They used Krannert for the 7th.
As always Dave, your video prompted me to listen to my recordings again. I was really happy to hear Mahler 5 with Jukka-Pekka Saraste with the Finnish RSO on Virgin Classics. I feel that he keeps everything moving forward but yet he really gives each movement great character. I especially like how he does not get bogged down in the Adagietto and this helps it flow seamlessly to the finale that is so joyously played. Have you listened to this recording recently? I would appreciate your input. Could this one be another sleeper?
I agree that it has "flow," but I think it's a pretty tame and under-characterized version.
Chailly 5th has to be one of my favorites for sure!
Among many others, have the Karajan on blu-Ray.
I just got a copy of the Stenz record and that's some fantastic Mahler conducting! Stenz reminds me of Bernstein's Vienna Philharmonic account in that both Stenz and Bernstein make the score more gripping and intense as it goes. It keeps getting better as the music progresses, each movement better than the last. I also like Barshai for his formally balanced presentation, the other four movements centered on and organized around the scherzo with such clarity. I think Ozawa and the Boston Symphony are first rate in the first three movements, but in the Adagietto and Finale they lapse in intensity and can't deliver on the promise they made. Do you agree?
No.
I love the qualities of the Walter rendition. As to the Barshai I confess I'm not as enthusiastic as I thought I would be. The 1st movement is fabulous but I always get the sense that the rest just doesn't shake me, I find the result less enlivened than the 1st movement suggests. I wonder what you think of one that has my affection, the Kubelik DG (part of my favorite cycle, by the way). It's a shame that the recording is somewhat muffled, especially the percussion, because I find it full of musicality and sincere. Also never overwrought. Kudos for another video with many suggestions I will check out (gotta hear that Rosbaud, and Kondrashin, whose live Amsterdam 7th is a jewel of a disc!).
I like Kubelik very much, but as you say, that engineering isn't great.
It is reported that one of the first reviews was "Bruno Walter succeeds where Mahler failed!"
What do you think of the new kid's M5 Payare, director of Montreal? I really like the samples I've heard and am thinking of purchasing it. Or Czech Philharmonic Orchestra, Semyon Bychkov (I just heard a sample of the opening to the Rondo and thought it really slow and weird- it should be like crisp dawn with birds chirping and critters running about- that's what I like anyway). Previously you praised Chailly's Mahler symphony cycle, but don't mention him here. Not so great for you? I have his 5 with Concertgebouw and always really liked it. Thanks for your inexhaustible energy. Buried under a mountain of classical music recordings and having to describe them. What a feat!
Watch the video. I reviewed Payere about a week or two ago.
I just got Chailly's cycle and I'm very happy within! Chailly just conducts beautiful Mhaler, and this fifth is a mantlpiece recording.@@DavesClassicalGuide
Interesting coming to this video after I just played the 5th with Stenz this past weekend. He was wonderful, into big gestures and not weighed gown by detail. But I’m scarred by his tempo in the Finale!
I love Chailly and Boulez, but yeah...I don't usually walk out of performances, but I have walked out of Mahler 5 performences twice! Good to know about the Mehta, I don't know it.
Not my favorite, but I do agree that the Levin/Mahler 5 is worth having...had it on LP & disc.
I even have the Harold Farberman/LSO/Mahler 1&5....the LSO sounds great, and that's all I will say about that😁
Barbirolli usually conducted Mahler 5 and 6 with much faster tempi than in his studio recordings of these pieces. His interpretations of these in live performances can be heard on mono recordings with Houston and BPO. I still love the Mahler 5 by Barbirolli/NPO because of romanticism and plenty of portamento in the 4th movement adagietto that is comparable to the Mengerberg/ACO recording.
I agree with all of your choices. I am surprised, however, that the Gielen wasn’t mentioned. I find that to be one of the best “modernist” Mahler 5 interpretations out there
Like Boulez, I find Gielen to be surprisingly cool and undercharacterized.
That’s a fair point. Perhaps there’s a time and a place for cool readings. I generally find the rest of Gielen’s Mahler to be cool (save his dark Sixth), but I like that for following along with the score. Either way, glad you mentioned the Stenz/Melbourne. That’s my all time favorite.
Totally agree with Bernstein's Vienna recording, really unbeatable. I prefer it to Karajan's version, but that's personal, of course. Now: the Bruno Walter recording with NYP you refer to is the 1947 one? Or is there a later one? Thanks.
No, it's 1947--on Sony.
Solti used to do a short Mozart symphony as a lead-in to the Mahler Fifth. The Mozart was more like the first quarter rather than the first half of the concert. It served to warm up the orchestra so they didn't start the Fifth cold. The Mozart didn't need much rehearsal, so they could concentrate on the Mahler. That was a good solution, I think ("secondo me" as we say in Italian).
I think Antoni Wit and the Polish National Radio Symphony Orchestra on Naxos put together a fine performance. But I agree that Von Karajan is at the top!
I heard Wit perform it live with the same forces - splendid reading
Wit's is a great one very much in the tradition of Rosbaud, Beata Jankowska & Otto NoppI's Naxos recording is superb too. The Polish National Radio Symphony Orchestra are wonderful and totally committed. I would definitely place it above Zubin Mehta's beautifull but soporific reading with the NYP which has been released all over the Warner stable; currently you can pick it up for peanuts on the budget Apex label (Apart from the art work it's identical to the 1990 Teledec release).
Have you got any thoughts on Simon Rattle's performance?
I'm curious about the Mehta recommendation. Years ago I heard his version with the Los Angeles Philharmonic. I remember thinking it was fantastic. I just did a quick drop the needle excersice and listened to spots from both Mehta recordings (LAPO and NY) on TH-cam and it seems clear the Los Angeles recording is superior..... Thoughts?
It's not.
The Mehta version with LAPO has always been my favorite. Its hard for me to imagine a superior recording. I'll have to compare with the NY version which I'm unfamiliar with.
See if you can finagle that live recording from Slatkin in St. Louis. Sumptuous strings, gorgeous brass, active percussion, and a tam-tam blast in the second movement that may still be reverberating today.
I would like to hear this. But talk about hard to get! It was only released as Disc 6 of the SLSO house label "The Slatkin Years" box set from 1995. Discogs lists it, but none for sale. Any leads?
As a side note, David, you say above that ALL the Marcus Stenz Oehms Mahler cycle is no good but you give Sym 4 a 10/10 on your website. Have you had second thoughts with this recording? Have I bought a turkey recommended by you?
Does anybody know the Honeck recording? Is it good? Or maybe even great?
Those are all great ones. Two you didn't mention that I really like: Honeck/Pittsburgh/R.R. and Mehta/L.A. Phil./Decca. I like Mehta's early L.A. one as much as his N.Y./Teldec one. The beginning of the second movement is just unbelievable. By the way, the Bernstein/V.P.O. M5 that DG recorded in Frankfurt is NOTHING compared to the live performance I saw him give of it in S.F.'s Davies Hall. That was unbelievable - one of the greatest live concerts I ever attended. The Honeck may be my favorite overall recording of M5.
I like Honeck too, but I want to live with it a bit longer and see how well it wears. The early Mehta is terrific, I agree, but you live in CA and I live in NY, so there! As the live LB, I don't think it's fair to compare the visceral experience of being present at a live performance to a recording. The two are completely different, and your memory of the live event contains so much more than just the music itself--it was the whole experience.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I agree with your point. I think Bernstein was more cautious for the Frankfurt performance, knowing it was being recorded. I like both Mehta recordings just fine - I could easily live with the N.Y. one. I love the Karajan too. Kubelik too.
Hello Dave, What is your opinion on Ricardo Chailly's RCOA M5 ? It is the first recording I heard and is what got me hooked on to Mahler.
I believe I was at that concert many years ago when the trumpet player just completely messed up the opening of the 1st movement. I was in the dress circle. Yess, it was a young Abbado a long time ...Must have been over 40 years ago. But my favorite Mahler 5 is the Sinopoli with Philharmonia Orch. I think its great!
That concert was with Berlin in 1993. It was the first chance that I had to hear Berlin live, and when the trumpet player muffed the opening, I heard what sounded like an audible gasp from many people in the hall, and the entire performance went off the rails. I left a bit puzzled about how this could be considered one of the best orchestras in the world, but they were immaculate the next two nights, playing Mahler 4 and 9, and rose to even higher heights on their next couple of visits over the decade after.
Is the Bernstein/Vienna 2nd recording you mention and are fond of from one of his cycles?
Dear David, did you ever hear the Honeck/Pittsburgh version on Exton? I got it but I don‘t really know what I should think about it. Brass is fantastic, the sound is quiet good but I miss the raw impact of the violins. At least when I compare it with the Karajan version. I would love to hear your oppinon about it!
Yes, I have heard it and I think it's quite good.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thank you for your reply!
Having said that. while listening to Rosbaud (who?) at the moment, It sounds very good. Mahler's orchestration doesn't seem possible but there it is.
Great discussion; no argument on your recommendations ; we have (deep breath here) Bernstein/NYPO,Bernstein/VPO, Barbirolli/NPO, Abbado/BPO, Abbado/CSO, Karajan/BPO, Levine/Philadelphia, Chailly/RCO, Bernini/ Cologne, Solti/CSO I, Gatti/RPO, and Neumann/Leipzig GO. Overall my favorite is Levine, but Karajan is truly stunning and a pleasant surprise from this conductor. I find Barbirolli a little underwhelming. I rather like Gatti and Chailly any thoughts on those? Bernstein/NYPO sounds like an off day for everyone involved.As you probably know, the Abbado/BPO was highly praised in Gramophone but is mostly blah. Neumann is decent but not great.
What do you think about Abbado's performance of Fifth in Lucerne, the one on TH-cam? I was wondering if that's the performance you would consider good, because that's the one that 'get' me to Mahler 5. Thanks.
I don't think it's very good, but that has nothing to do with how you react to it as a new experience. Certainly it's not bad, and the music itself is stronger than any single interpretation.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Many thanks for replying, David!
Dave, re: the Abbado, CSO "1st" recording...
2 recordings in 1981? January and October? You mean the January record? Didn't know if they're the same with different album art. I ask to clarify because Apple Music has the October album but not January.
I'm a trumpet player so naturally a collector of Mahler 5's... I have Bernstein, the Barenboim you reference, the Mehta, and 2 diff Solti recordings. I've been meaning to get Abbado forever! I love his work with CSO - especially his Mahler 7 in '84 and Tchaikovsky 4 in '88.
Thanks for clarifying. If the 2 are completely different, do you have and opinion on the October recording?
As far as I know they are the same.
Thx.
I found Levine's 5th under RCA with 2 different covers: face and sun vs hill silhouette. Any difference?
No.
Has anyone watched Makela with CSO last week? I am dying to hear the opinion of the experts on the channel 😊!
Maybe the recording sessions should be spread over several days. Although some of the best performances I've heard have been live ....
You have talked a number of times about those recording you reach for when you “just want to hear the piece,” and for me with Mahler 5 that is Bernstein/Vienna. It’s partly the closeness of the recording, but with that recording I just feel completely inside the Mahlerian symphonic “World” - totally subsumed. This is despite the fact that I have come to believe it is is some some ways simply an incorrect performance: the intro and funeral March are too slow, without question. The crisper performances are entirely persuasive to me on that, including in the 70s Bernstein film from the Musikverein, where he takes the more standard tempi.
Nevertheless, no other recordings place me in an altered mental state the way Bernstein’s 80s record does.
Stimulating choices! And I've usually found Levine efficient, athletic and not much else. Too sane for my taste, let's say so. I'll surely give another listen to his Philadelphia 5th. I always loved Sinopoli's thoughtful, tormented Mahler and the 5th is no exception. Bernstein+Wiener is absolutely stellar and visceral as it should be. Another old reference of mine is Inbal (his Denon cycle was generally excellent and with a very unique sound image, now I think it's on Brilliant).
Of all the performances of the 5th residing on my shelves (too many!) I come back to Sinopoli's most frequently! I think his charts that journey from the darkness and turmoil of those first two movements, towards the light and joy of the finale, wonderfully. The recording also gives the music space to breathe, rather than forcing detail right in your face (that's one of my issues with Levine).
@@curseofmillhaven1057 From what I've (re)heard of the Levine, I agree wholeheartedly on the "in your face" attitude. I think this work needs a little more "audible struggling/suffering". David was on point saying that the orchestra really, really needs to work for it. And also a little bit of real struggle can go a long way (see Bernstein in his incredible 9th almost *breaking* the Wiener Philarmoniker in the 1st movement climax; it's not pretty, but that kind of emotion is not supposed to be pretty).
...and I'm currently listening to Honeck and Pittsburgh: seems superb to my ears! Rich, malleable, bouncing sound and a firm conducting hand. Devastatingly decadent in the Adagietto, as well.
@@Zezahn not heard the Honeck - should check it out. Listened to Stenz Melbourne on Primephonic - excellent pacing, although the accoustic just a smidge too dry
@@curseofmillhaven1057 I'll check the Stenz out! First on my list.
Your fans might be interested in any comments you might have about the movie Tar, and why eg. Marin Alsop felt insulted - *as a conductor* - by it
What about Scherchen and the Vienna state opera on Westminster??
What about them?
@@DavesClassicalGuide is it as bad as the Scherchen ORTF version
@@randywolfgang4943 No, but that's not saying much.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Btw I heard the Ancerl Romeo and Juliet streaming on Qobuz. Holy cow!!! I didn’t know this conductor at all. What a discovery. Thanks for the recommendation
@@randywolfgang4943 My pleasure.
Completely agreed about Mahler 5 being impossible to play and get right, but for me the ones that completely 'do it' are Kubelik, Gielen, Inbal, and Honeck, whom I'm surprised wasn't mentioned here.
Kubelik and Inbal are possibilities, as is Bertini, but I think I had enough there.
Please, which one is Solti’s first version? Chicago? Concertgebouw? There’s even a third one with the Tonhalle 😮. Thanks in advance
Chicago, analog.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thanks!!
Which orchestra does Solti conduct in his recording # 2?
@@davecook8378 I'd recommend the first one, also. The 2nd (1991, I think) is digital, but all I hear is a great orchestra playing on autopilot. I remember a cellist I knew in the orchestra around that time grumbling that they had played the piece too many times!
What Dave mentions as Solti’s second is actually his third. The 1970 one was a studio recording. I actually find it a bit harshly recorded and the scherzo climax maxes out the mics and you just hear noise for a moment. The actual second was a live on tour in Tokyo performance caught on video by Sony I think in the mid-80s. It’s ok. But not something you must seek out. The 1991 performance was recorded live in Salzburg. And that’s perhaps the problem. The sound is warmer and there’s more color, but the orchestra sounds like they’re a little jetlagged. It’s still the CSO and they basically know the piece in their sleep, but you should still rather hear them awake. I concur with Dave’s recommendation for the criminally overlooked Barenboim recording. It’s really beautifully done. Very organic and with a crazy amount of detail. You’ll hear lines (bass clarinet!) you didn’t know exist.
Surprised not to see Frank Shipway/RPO get a mention.
Why should anyone mention Frank Shipway? ;)
@@Piflaser No.
any cmments on a Frank Shipway performance with the royal phil
Some people like it.
@@DavesClassicalGuideWhat is your opinion of it ?
Hans Rosbaud’s is the best recording in your opinion? I listened to it and I just can’t imagine coming to that conclusion myself.
I didn't say it's the best.
Can't find Marcus Stens anywhere, do I have the right spelling of his name?
no it’s stenz
Pardon this nerdy question, but what’s your thought on the low C# pizz that ends movement 1? Should it be loud? Or just stick out in the context of PP?
Loud. It should startle with a sort of emphatic emptiness.
David Hurwitz I have to admit, the Levine recording you mentioned does that better than any other. Wow!
The beginning trumpet solo is very challenging and some recordings are only judged by how this solo is played, unfortunately
Abbado and Chicago Symphony Orchestra in Mahler Fifth for DG...one of the best Mahler's Fifth of all times!
Lucerne better