Eric Cortina is the first person I saw using CLR, but his words were, go at your own risk, but also leave in the barrel no more than 15 minutes following up with 91% alcohol.
In fairness to those who use CLR to clean bores, they don't soak the barrels overnight and do neutralize the CLR with isopropyl alcohol flush/wipe afterwards, both things not followed with this "experiment."
It's still valid by degree. Clearly it does etch stainless and that begins as soon as it makes contact so the question is "how much are we okay with?" Bore pates aso remove material so for those folks obviously the answer is "some." Not everybody is comfortable with that (or there wouldn't be debates about bore brushes). What somebody needs to do is figure out how much loss over time is acceptable (and arguably Eric is doing that over the lives of his barrels).
My father, who was a materials processing engineer and head of the materials lab for a major aerospace company, once told me that if you could just feel a ridge with your fingernail but not with your finger tip, the ridge was one or two ten-thousandths high.
Looking at the MSDS for CLR, a large portion of it is an organic acid, Lactic acid. Stainless steel will corrode in certain environments, likely, this is one. I notice that a lot of shooters rinse their bores with acetone after cleaning. In a lab experience, we learned that acetone will corrode some stainless steels. I always apply Butch's gun oil via a patch after whatever cleaner I use in the barrel. Most bore cleaning products recommend oiling after using their product, seems like good advice. Most report good results with J-B, Iosso, Montana, or other abrasive paste. David Tubb's Final Finish is another abrasive for bore maintenance. Looking in my cupboard, bore cleaners must be a good business. My current favorite is Wipe-Out, tomorrow... who knows.
My expirence trying this on a few muzzle brakes have yielded the same results and definitely darkened (oxidized) the brakes a few where blended brakes. I personally won't use CLR anymore
There is a variety of iron oxides called hematite that have a spectrum of subscripts for the number of atoms of iron and oxygen that looks like Fe2O3 or Fe3O4, etc., and there are many forms all the way up to Fe25O32. The appearance of these oxides can range from dark grey to black to red and brown. We also add sulphur to 416 to make it what we call free-machining grade stainless. The addition of the sulphur vastly improves the ability to machine but also greatly weakens the corrosion resistance. We often intentionally use strong acids on the surface of steel to oxidize the tramp iron that is not tied up with chrome. The tramp iron on the surface of the stainless steel will form into those grey to black looking colors on your test and then go deeper to include more iron. When the chrome content of steel goes higher, the corrosion resistance increases. Because many stainless steels do not contain high amounts of chrome, they can corrode with weak acid. The 416 steel you used is generally has from 12% to 14% chrome and is considered resistant to acids but is less resistant than the non-free machining grades or the ones with higher chrome content.
@@br4713 Yes, and like Keith mentioned, leaving anything water based with any ionic contamination in the capillary gaps (like the threads), would be a bad risk. Hydrocarbon solvents that are completely volatile will eventually migrate or evaporate out of threads and pose a much smaller risk of causing corrosion there. The risks for high energy surfaces is even higher, so things that are case hardened, Martensitic, springs, etc., will also be attacked sooner. Just Mother Nature's way of keeping us on our toes...
Great video. First my background is in aircraft engine repair, mostly inspection so etching alloys is very common and all etching liquids have to be neutralized is a specific time so I could see how the CLR could work well if you did a proper cleanup. I’ve been shooting for many years and have just recently gotten into precision rifles so I’ve been studying how to clean them and when so I’ll be trying different methods and materials on mostly stainless barrels. I have several ARs that need a good back to bare metal cleaning so I have projects to play with before I touch my new precision rifle. I’ve used Bore Tech products lately and before that I used your standard Hoppes, Break Free, etc and I have JB Bore Cleaner and Bore Bright ordered for polish the bore to make cleaning easier later. My first experiment will be an 18” stainless AR that has 1000s of rounds through it with only break free and boresnakes. Surprisingly with the borescope it doesn’t look bad. We’ll see. Great videos, thank you very much.
Great video. This may explain why the patches kept coming out black no matter how long I soaked the barrel. The last barrel I cleaned with CLR was carbon steel & I soaked & scrubbed over a 4 hour period. The black on the patches was heaviest at the beginning but the patches just wouldn't clear & the barrel had less than 100 rnds through after the last cleaning. I don't have a boar scope but, I could see the last 1/2" of the boar at the muzzle & the steel looked absolutely stripped of everything but copper on the lands. The CLR didn't touch the copper at all which is what I expected but, black patches just kept on coming no matter how many times I ran them down the barrel. After this vid, I have to conclude that the CLR must have reacting with the steel. Oh well, that's CLR off the list.
@@xxdizannyxx That was the 1st time I'd used CLR so I kept on with it to see when the patches would finally come through clear & it never happened. I'm not interested in getting a barrel 100% clean & never have been. The CLR experience was a test to find out how it works.
I preface this comment with my results may differ from yours. I've been using CLR on my Bartlein SS barrel for awhile now. I have left it in the barrel on a heavy patch application process of 2 very soaked patches back to back followed by a 3 hr leave in process. I then dry patch it up to 6 patches. I look at the barrel with a borescope and see zero discoloration. In fact it's very shiny. If I have any carbon after that process I follow up with Iosso or JB Bore compound and scrub with a bronze brush. Clean all that out with CLP, then dry patch 6 patches. I check it again with a bore scope. It's usually never dirty after this and if it is I will repeat that last step. If it is clean I will hit it with Frog Lube and wait 10 minutes, then patch that out. I rarely have to go past the 2nd step and in fact, I rarely have to go past the 1st step so long as I clean my rifle soon as I get home from a trip to the range. I do have a Mod400BB coming in sometime in the next couple months, and I will likely check that with CLR and Barnes CR-10 to see what it looks like, i.e. any effect on the steel before I use it in the same way. Stainless Steel should resist just about any chemical, bar the strongest of acids. It's used all over chemical plants for a reason. Granted 416SS is not necessarily the exact same steel used in those plants, but it is the one used for the largest chemical reactors. I would like to know who made this barrel you cut the test piece from, and is that the same as 416SS (grade and quality) as what Bartlein, Krieger, Criterion, etc. use. I don't doubt your integrity, but I do doubt the steel used for the test. For example, when it was cut, did the steel reach the temperature required to have an effect on the grain structure or was the steel re-treated to realign the grain for hardness?
Funny how those who get free stuff from sponsors and other well healed manufactures can so quickly dismiss or cast shade on those whobare not busy gouging us customers.
@@TheMerlinmk19 I actually stopped using CLR. I switched over to Free All in conjunction with JB and Iosso with clean up being Free All. I start with it & end with it, then I don't have to even worry if this batch of SS will be affected by CLR or not.
Well! CLR is composed of Lauramine Oxide which is a corrosive surfactant (corrosive and oxidative soap basically) that corrodes the stainless while lowering the surface tension of water and most liquids while also being oxidative which is really a formation of rust. so there s that...😁. Now onto the business end of CLR which is lactic acid which is an organic acid. It is produced by the body, especially after a good workout. The muscle soreness you feel? That's lactic acid. but its most prevalent use is to break down the scale or water spots. So, I spent $500 for my stainless match barrel. I don't want CLR to oxidize my barrel and I don't have water spots down my bore so why the hell would I want it in my barrel? If you need anything more than a sensible answer to that question: all the forerunning barrel makers, have what is known as instructions. I am certain that they would not advise the CLR because I just read mine. No CLR! Great video and a fantastic test. I think I'll stick to my Hoppes and Boretech. Specifically formulated for gun cleaning. The notions of people!
If that is truly oxidation, it would be black oxide. Take that stub and boil it in some DI water for 30 minutes then card the stub. If it was rust, you should have the beginnings of a form of rust bluing. Further soaks and boilings might turn that stub jet black.
Good experiment. I use it occasionally on my brakes. I think being prudent as you suggest. Other cleaning solvents can be harmful if left in as well. I flush CLR thoroughly. I flush other “hard” solvents well too. Currently I’m not using CLR on my barrels because I’ve found other products that work as well, maybe better. I do use it on my brakes to loosen carbon then rinse with water and small brushes. It has it place.
I soaked a stainless steel compensator in CLR for 2 hours. It removed the carbon but also turned it from silver to a burnt bronze color. It must have broke down copper deposits in the break and deposited it on the surface of the break. It only came off with Bore tech copper cleaner. Turned the patches bright blue.
I made a comment about using the stuff for blacking a barrel on the outside. Add a few pieces of copper or copper dust and might be a way to color a barrel to. Makes me wonder what other colors could be achieved.
I realize this is S.S... but I had an experience with CLR, which is great stuff, for the purpose it was intended for.. But, I have some freshly buffed DOM 2" tube, that was for roll cage .. anyway, I had a plumbing issue, due to the hard water I have on the well.. anyway, my lady "demanded" I rectify the issue right then and there.. in the process of dealing with the plumbing, my hands were wet with the CLR liquid, and I moved the cleaned chunk of DOM, and came back out to the shop the next day to pick up where I left off. HOLY SMOKES.. you could tell everywhere my hands had touched the DOM tubing.. LOL.. huge fuzzy rust spots in the shape of hand prints..LOL as if that stuff was attacked my salt water from the ocean... This is a pretty neat test.. Thank you..
Thank you for the experiment and Interesting results however one isolated test with CLR doesn't give you the "warm n fuzzies" and it is certainly disconcerting BUT I wonder if you would feel the same way about all your regular barrel cleaning solvents tested using the same method ??
And I wonder who in the actual F leaves their barrel submerged in a cleaning agent for 2, 3, 14, 24 hours? This is like saying "don't use 93 octane fuel because when I place a brick on the accelerator of the car and walk away, the engine eats itself after 14 hours"
Certainly his JB abrasives would also remove material in use. The thing to do would be to replicate Eric Cortina's procedure and this gentleman's on gauges and then measure how much material is removed per say 20 cleanings. Obviously both approaches work accepatble (to marksmanship standards) for some. Worth the trade-offs for others?
The discoloration was not oxidation nor was it etching. Thats exactly why it didnt rust after. What the CLR did was pull all the dirt and grime inbedded into the pours of the steel. Same thing will happen if you soak stainless steel, steel, or aluminum in simple green which you them scrub off with a green 3m scotch brite and rinse. That being said no one lets CLR soak in their barrel and if they did their bore brush would remove the discoloration from the dirt it lifted up from the pours. Most people flush afterwards with isopropyl alchohol anyhow and if you have fire cracking it will flush it out. People have been using clr for years and years before cortina mentioned it even though for whatever reason he takes credit for the idea, SMFH. Benchrest shooters i compete with in 1000yd BR that are older gentlemen use White Vinegar to clean carbon out of their barrels too.
I can't imagine why anyone would first think to use CLR as a cleaner. Make Ed's Red: 4 parts kerosene, mineral spirits, ATF transmission fluid, and acetone. On another note, maybe this maybe a way to take that high shine off my .308 barrel that comes in stainless steel? Anyone else try that to darken their SS barrel?
That Ed's Red is interesting stuff. I mix it up by the gallon and pass it out to my shooting friends. Even our mechanics use the stuff, a high-tech penetrating oil, and cleaner lubricant on steroids.
I've seen other products have minor reaction to stainless or even sometimes chrome, I don't remember whether it's actually reacting with the ferrous metals in the steel which is my supposition, the Chrome or the nickel that's in that steel. But my supposition would be that it is reacting with the ferris Metals within that test piece. Most products that promise to remove fouling will have a minor effect on the steel of a barrel. But because you're only supposed to use them for a short time it's not usually measurable by what we use to measure with. You also didn't define what type of stainless that was, is it 4/16 stainless like many barrels are or what? I do know somebody who would know for sure what that reaction is, he's been a metal artist since he went to college after he got out of Vietnam. My gunsmith would know for sure. He has built rifles from scratch for a long time and built and came up with a lot of Innovations or weapons for SEAL Teams.
Finding it’s way to your trigger assembly would be a trouble . Test some other of your usual firearm cleaning products the same way . Micro imaging and physical measurements are in order . Thanks for the test .
In industrial processes 304 and 316 stainless are most common. of those two metals 316 is the most resistant to corrosion from acids, so it is a bit more expensive. 416 will rust much easier.
You are aware that even stainless gun barrels 416 specifically still has carbon in it and that’s not oxidation. No one is leaving CLR longer than 15 mins in a barrel anyways, it softens the carbon, then u flush with alcohol or acetone thoroughly.
I just bought a tuner brake from Cortina and asked specifically if he had done a CLR clean on it like he did on his plain tuner. He had not, and after seeing this, I am going to have to revisit what he did to see how he avoided the immediate etching you saw here. Thanks!
If it is a nitrided brake, then CLR is not a good way to clean it. If it is the SS version, then rock on. I've left my SS EC Tuner brake in CLR (like completely submerged for around 5 hours to loosen up the heavy carbon buildup with zero impact to the steel.
Most likely Eric is making his tuners from 314 stainless which is virtually rust proof. Most brakes and barrels are made from 416 stainless which is very corrosion resistant but not corrosion proof.
So I just finished conducting the same exact test with patch out and accelerator and I came back in 18 days and the metal was gone!!! Oh what will my sponsors say?!?!?
Interesting result! I’ve been soaking my stainless steel Terminator muzzle brakes in Australian CLR and it certainly hasn’t ever resulted in any discolouration or etching as you’ve demonstrated here... often times I leave the brake soak for a day or two to remove the carbon deposits. Either the concentration you have access too in the USA is stronger or T3 muzzle brakes are a different grade of stainless steel..?
Either way I know there are better products out to clean. But if the barrel is plugged at both ends and if present a gas port plug it too, sand blast or bead blast it and drop it in a tank or CLR and Walla a home stainless barrel black. Maybe?
if you want to use clr test for yourself, ill explain, after seeing this video i was curious and i had a factory take off tikka barrel stainless that i thought id test, mind you there are differing series of stainless and stainless is a mix of stuff but i soaked the tip of that tikka stainless barrel in clr for about 6 hrs and it had no change whatsoever in coloration no effects of etching at all so take that for what its worth. a different barrel a different result. still the use of iosso cleans carbon out of a bore 10x faster than clr
I would like to see the same tst but using just tap water. I think any chemical or even tap water left over night will discolor it. Great TEST my friend.
Soaked an old what looks like an old powder measure part overnight, at least 22hrs in CLR, the CLR didn't touch this part, no damage whatsoever., wish I could post a pic here.
how do we know if the stuff floating around in the berger box was corrosive or had anti corrosion properties you have too many variables at play in that test
It's funny that when I soak my S Steel brake there is absolutely no discoloration at all. It must have something to do with the alloy. I have soaked it for more than 24 hours. So as I believe it says on most cleaners, test in an inconspicuous area.
Years, decades actually, of working with SS pipe and tubing, often nuclear grade, has proven over and over.., and over -- that; contrary to what most people believe, alloys are closer to chocolate chip cookie dough than to a cake mix. They are not homogeneous. There are inconsistent mixtures of trace metals and minerals -- with the result being analogous to knots in wood. That's what those "blotches" are. Minor differences in the makeup of the alloy. It is caused by inadequate mixing, followed by the effects of gravity on the differing densities of dissimilar materials, which are in turn effected -- differently -- with changes in temperature. Extremely consistent mixtures, and even "impossible" mixtures, (in Earth norm conditions) are the hopes of Materials Science Specialists in Micro-gravity conditions. "Space Industries! There's Room for Hope!" Plus, "The School of the American Rifle" TH-cam channel has some videos (frozen/stuck adjustable gas blocks) where he uses (has used for years) a soak-style carburetor cleaner (starts with a capital "D") that hasn't done any damage to materials or finishes (that I'm aware of) The focus was on carbon build up and freeing "frozen" parts... THAT... is the extent of my knowledge. Review of those videos and experimenting with the product might be a worthy video...!?!??? I know it works. He only (in the videos) wiped the excess with paper towels. (Hazardous! Eyewear, Gloves and Ventilation) I hope this helps. The channel I referenced appears to be among the best. 5 out of 5 stars for reliability. 5 out of 5 for knowledge. 5 out of 5 for trustworthiness. (You can tell I'm a fan.., I'm biased)
want to see a lot of rust just wait for a very very humid day and see what happens to that area affected by CLR you'll need to heavily brush the rust off with another solvent or CLR again. soon you will have just bare steel no stainless steel protection. if you use CLR on your barrels water it down at least 50/50 but dry it out 100% asap
This was helpful. It's not at all illogical to believe that the chemical alteration you saw in 2 hours wouldn't happen over repeated 15 minute cycles. That rough texture would seem to affect the ability of a bullet to pass through the bore and taper off as subsequent bullets wore more of that black stuff/texture off. That would lead to varying velocities and pressures which could very much affect bullet flights to long distances. Maybe not 100 yards, but 1k yards...maybe. Plus, whatever it is, it isn't solid stainless barrel anymore. The rest of this is in jest to try to be funny. Don't take this as a genuine attack, jus' bein' funny (or trying to, anyway): This test is obviously fake as evidenced by your time stamp of 5:45 *AM*. That's just made up stuff...ain't no such thing as any time before 7 AM! Period! Also, Erik Cortina says he uses CLR and he's an F-class shooter and F-class shooters never lie or mislead others in their attempts to shoot well. That's a fact. I read it on the Internets. ;)
CLR is acidic. I wonder what it would do to chrome moly barrel. I know that hoppes can stay in a barrel for 6 months and won't harm the barrel. Ok let's rinse the barrel with alcohol. Alcohol does not neutralize acid. Not putting it in my rifles.
"Stainless" steel is stainless steel all the way through the chunk of metal - etching the surface won't make the new surface any less "stainless" (less rust resistant). It appears that CLR may be useful for darkening stainless, but I definitely don't want it inside my bore.
Stainless steels can be damaged by chemicals, especially salts. There are many videos showing how to engrave stainless steel knives blades with just some salted water, a small battery and a wire. Stainless steel can rust too in some circumstances
Remember the fad years ago of using hydrogen peroxide to clean stainless barrels? I forget what the "in" crowd was mixing with to create the final product but it was found to etch the barrel over time. Most cleaning expedients have a price...and a damaged bore is generally the price.
@@winninginthewind That is really strange. I have never seen stainless steal reacting like that. Have you ever compared it with an CrNiMo-Steel like 1.4401 or 1.4571 (316)? I really don't understand that. 416R should be better than 316 in most of the cases anyways. Have you tried to comepare it with normal steel? Where did you get this piece of barrel from? Is it possible that it is normal steel without you knowing it? This is really interesting. Maybe you should try to dig a bit deeper.
Do a little research into 416R steel. It is quite the different animal from the 300 series. It's what I describe as Stain Less steel. It still will corrode in conditions that 300 series stainless would simply laugh at. The Barrel that came from this stub is worn out, but it's definitely 416R.
@@winninginthewind you are right. I got that wrong. 416R is much stronger but also much more likely to corrode. Where I come from, muzzle breaks are made from 300 series steel while barrels are also made from 416R. This might be the reason that CLR is used to clean breaks without any issues. Probably it is the same in the US.
It's a household cleaner that happens to also help with the removal of carbon fouling. I've been using CLR for the past two years and have been amazed at how quickly it allows me to get carbon out. That said, I'll also give free all a try because it sounds like it may be just as good.
I heard about how great CLR was at cleaning gun parts, carbon etc. So I gave it a try, big mistake. It destroyed everything it touched. And took only minutes on some parts. My suggestion, don’t do it.
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Eric Cortina is the first person I saw using CLR, but his words were, go at your own risk, but also leave in the barrel no more than 15 minutes following up with 91% alcohol.
In fairness to those who use CLR to clean bores, they don't soak the barrels overnight and do neutralize the CLR with isopropyl alcohol flush/wipe afterwards, both things not followed with this "experiment."
Exactly. CLR works great. Alcohol rinse afterward.
It's still valid by degree. Clearly it does etch stainless and that begins as soon as it makes contact so the question is "how much are we okay with?" Bore pates aso remove material so for those folks obviously the answer is "some." Not everybody is comfortable with that (or there wouldn't be debates about bore brushes).
What somebody needs to do is figure out how much loss over time is acceptable (and arguably Eric is doing that over the lives of his barrels).
*ive used it on SS and anodized aluminum suppressor baffles, in my ultrasonic cleaner.. zero issues*
*also depends on the type of SS is being used*
My father, who was a materials processing engineer and head of the materials lab for a major aerospace company, once told me that if you could just feel a ridge with your fingernail but not with your finger tip, the ridge was one or two ten-thousandths high.
Looking at the MSDS for CLR, a large portion of it is an organic acid, Lactic acid. Stainless steel will corrode in certain environments, likely, this is one. I notice that a lot of shooters rinse their bores with acetone after cleaning. In a lab experience, we learned that acetone will corrode some stainless steels. I always apply Butch's gun oil via a patch after whatever cleaner I use in the barrel. Most bore cleaning products recommend oiling after using their product, seems like good advice. Most report good results with J-B, Iosso, Montana, or other abrasive paste. David Tubb's Final Finish is another abrasive for bore maintenance. Looking in my cupboard, bore cleaners must be a good business. My current favorite is Wipe-Out, tomorrow... who knows.
My expirence trying this on a few muzzle brakes have yielded the same results and definitely darkened (oxidized) the brakes a few where blended brakes. I personally won't use CLR anymore
Should have run the bore scope in and given us a look at the rifling.
There is a variety of iron oxides called hematite that have a spectrum of subscripts for the number of atoms of iron and oxygen that looks like Fe2O3 or Fe3O4, etc., and there are many forms all the way up to Fe25O32. The appearance of these oxides can range from dark grey to black to red and brown. We also add sulphur to 416 to make it what we call free-machining grade stainless. The addition of the sulphur vastly improves the ability to machine but also greatly weakens the corrosion resistance.
We often intentionally use strong acids on the surface of steel to oxidize the tramp iron that is not tied up with chrome. The tramp iron on the surface of the stainless steel will form into those grey to black looking colors on your test and then go deeper to include more iron. When the chrome content of steel goes higher, the corrosion resistance increases. Because many stainless steels do not contain high amounts of chrome, they can corrode with weak acid. The 416 steel you used is generally has from 12% to 14% chrome and is considered resistant to acids but is less resistant than the non-free machining grades or the ones with higher chrome content.
Excellent information! I knew we had an expert or two around!
Salts can corrode stainless steel way faster than any acid.
@@br4713 Yes, and like Keith mentioned, leaving anything water based with any ionic contamination in the capillary gaps (like the threads), would be a bad risk. Hydrocarbon solvents that are completely volatile will eventually migrate or evaporate out of threads and pose a much smaller risk of causing corrosion there. The risks for high energy surfaces is even higher, so things that are case hardened, Martensitic, springs, etc., will also be attacked sooner. Just Mother Nature's way of keeping us on our toes...
Great video. First my background is in aircraft engine repair, mostly inspection so etching alloys is very common and all etching liquids have to be neutralized is a specific time so I could see how the CLR could work well if you did a proper cleanup. I’ve been shooting for many years and have just recently gotten into precision rifles so I’ve been studying how to clean them and when so I’ll be trying different methods and materials on mostly stainless barrels. I have several ARs that need a good back to bare metal cleaning so I have projects to play with before I touch my new precision rifle. I’ve used Bore Tech products lately and before that I used your standard Hoppes, Break Free, etc and I have JB Bore Cleaner and Bore Bright ordered for polish the bore to make cleaning easier later. My first experiment will be an 18” stainless AR that has 1000s of rounds through it with only break free and boresnakes. Surprisingly with the borescope it doesn’t look bad. We’ll see. Great videos, thank you very much.
Great video.
This may explain why the patches kept coming out black no matter how long I soaked the barrel. The last barrel I cleaned with CLR was carbon steel & I soaked & scrubbed over a 4 hour period. The black on the patches was heaviest at the beginning but the patches just wouldn't clear & the barrel had less than 100 rnds through after the last cleaning.
I don't have a boar scope but, I could see the last 1/2" of the boar at the muzzle & the steel looked absolutely stripped of everything but copper on the lands. The CLR didn't touch the copper at all which is what I expected but, black patches just kept on coming no matter how many times I ran them down the barrel.
After this vid, I have to conclude that the CLR must have reacting with the steel.
Oh well, that's CLR off the list.
I don't think it's necessary to get every grain of fouling out from a barrel, running 2 or 3 patches through it is enough I'd think.
@@xxdizannyxx That was the 1st time I'd used CLR so I kept on with it to see when the patches would finally come through clear & it never happened.
I'm not interested in getting a barrel 100% clean & never have been. The CLR experience was a test to find out how it works.
I preface this comment with my results may differ from yours. I've been using CLR on my Bartlein SS barrel for awhile now. I have left it in the barrel on a heavy patch application process of 2 very soaked patches back to back followed by a 3 hr leave in process. I then dry patch it up to 6 patches. I look at the barrel with a borescope and see zero discoloration. In fact it's very shiny. If I have any carbon after that process I follow up with Iosso or JB Bore compound and scrub with a bronze brush. Clean all that out with CLP, then dry patch 6 patches. I check it again with a bore scope. It's usually never dirty after this and if it is I will repeat that last step. If it is clean I will hit it with Frog Lube and wait 10 minutes, then patch that out. I rarely have to go past the 2nd step and in fact, I rarely have to go past the 1st step so long as I clean my rifle soon as I get home from a trip to the range. I do have a Mod400BB coming in sometime in the next couple months, and I will likely check that with CLR and Barnes CR-10 to see what it looks like, i.e. any effect on the steel before I use it in the same way. Stainless Steel should resist just about any chemical, bar the strongest of acids. It's used all over chemical plants for a reason. Granted 416SS is not necessarily the exact same steel used in those plants, but it is the one used for the largest chemical reactors. I would like to know who made this barrel you cut the test piece from, and is that the same as 416SS (grade and quality) as what Bartlein, Krieger, Criterion, etc. use. I don't doubt your integrity, but I do doubt the steel used for the test. For example, when it was cut, did the steel reach the temperature required to have an effect on the grain structure or was the steel re-treated to realign the grain for hardness?
Funny how those who get free stuff from sponsors and other well healed manufactures can so quickly dismiss or cast shade on those whobare not busy gouging us customers.
@@TheMerlinmk19 I actually stopped using CLR. I switched over to Free All in conjunction with JB and Iosso with clean up being Free All. I start with it & end with it, then I don't have to even worry if this batch of SS will be affected by CLR or not.
Well! CLR is composed of Lauramine Oxide which is a corrosive surfactant (corrosive and oxidative soap basically) that corrodes the stainless while lowering the surface tension of water and most liquids while also being oxidative which is really a formation of rust. so there s that...😁. Now onto the business end of CLR which is lactic acid which is an organic acid. It is produced by the body, especially after a good workout. The muscle soreness you feel? That's lactic acid. but its most prevalent use is to break down the scale or water spots. So, I spent $500 for my stainless match barrel. I don't want CLR to oxidize my barrel and I don't have water spots down my bore so why the hell would I want it in my barrel? If you need anything more than a sensible answer to that question: all the forerunning barrel makers, have what is known as instructions. I am certain that they would not advise the CLR because I just read mine. No CLR! Great video and a fantastic test. I think I'll stick to my Hoppes and Boretech. Specifically formulated for gun cleaning. The notions of people!
If that is truly oxidation, it would be black oxide. Take that stub and boil it in some DI water for 30 minutes then card the stub. If it was rust, you should have the beginnings of a form of rust bluing. Further soaks and boilings might turn that stub jet black.
Good experiment. I use it occasionally on my brakes. I think being prudent as you suggest. Other cleaning solvents can be harmful if left in as well. I flush CLR thoroughly. I flush other “hard” solvents well too. Currently I’m not using CLR on my barrels because I’ve found other products that work as well, maybe better. I do use it on my brakes to loosen carbon then rinse with water and small brushes. It has it place.
I soaked a stainless steel compensator in CLR for 2 hours. It removed the carbon but also turned it from silver to a burnt bronze color. It must have broke down copper deposits in the break and deposited it on the surface of the break. It only came off with Bore tech copper cleaner. Turned the patches bright blue.
I made a comment about using the stuff for blacking a barrel on the outside. Add a few pieces of copper or copper dust and might be a way to color a barrel to. Makes me wonder what other colors could be achieved.
I realize this is S.S... but I had an experience with CLR, which is great stuff, for the purpose it was intended for.. But, I have some freshly buffed DOM 2" tube, that was for roll cage .. anyway, I had a plumbing issue, due to the hard water I have on the well.. anyway, my lady "demanded" I rectify the issue right then and there.. in the process of dealing with the plumbing, my hands were wet with the CLR liquid, and I moved the cleaned chunk of DOM, and came back out to the shop the next day to pick up where I left off. HOLY SMOKES.. you could tell everywhere my hands had touched the DOM tubing.. LOL.. huge fuzzy rust spots in the shape of hand prints..LOL as if that stuff was attacked my salt water from the ocean... This is a pretty neat test.. Thank you..
Thank you for the experiment and Interesting results however one isolated test with CLR doesn't give you the "warm n fuzzies" and it is certainly disconcerting BUT I wonder if you would feel the same way about all your regular barrel cleaning solvents tested using the same method ??
And I wonder who in the actual F leaves their barrel submerged in a cleaning agent for 2, 3, 14, 24 hours? This is like saying "don't use 93 octane fuel because when I place a brick on the accelerator of the car and walk away, the engine eats itself after 14 hours"
Certainly his JB abrasives would also remove material in use. The thing to do would be to replicate Eric Cortina's procedure and this gentleman's on gauges and then measure how much material is removed per say 20 cleanings. Obviously both approaches work accepatble (to marksmanship standards) for some. Worth the trade-offs for others?
Maybe it's pulling the carbon out of the carbon steel? Very interesting. I was always afraid to try that in a barrel. Thanks Keith.
Thats called oxidation.
its a brand new piece of stainless barrel steel
I was not expecting a result so quickly
Thanks for sharing your knowledge and keep your videos coming please.
Very helpful, thanks man
Wow thank you, you just saved my new barrel!!
Hahahaha
I use CLR in my barrels, so does the top shooter in our club, saved?? LOL
Great video, you saved me from the possibility of damaging a Proof Research barrel!
Haha
Thank you for making this test !!!
The discoloration was not oxidation nor was it etching. Thats exactly why it didnt rust after. What the CLR did was pull all the dirt and grime inbedded into the pours of the steel. Same thing will happen if you soak stainless steel, steel, or aluminum in simple green which you them scrub off with a green 3m scotch brite and rinse. That being said no one lets CLR soak in their barrel and if they did their bore brush would remove the discoloration from the dirt it lifted up from the pours. Most people flush afterwards with isopropyl alchohol anyhow and if you have fire cracking it will flush it out. People have been using clr for years and years before cortina mentioned it even though for whatever reason he takes credit for the idea, SMFH. Benchrest shooters i compete with in 1000yd BR that are older gentlemen use White Vinegar to clean carbon out of their barrels too.
I can't imagine why anyone would first think to use CLR as a cleaner. Make Ed's Red: 4 parts kerosene, mineral spirits, ATF transmission fluid, and acetone.
On another note, maybe this maybe a way to take that high shine off my .308 barrel that comes in stainless steel? Anyone else try that to darken their SS barrel?
That Ed's Red is interesting stuff. I mix it up by the gallon and pass it out to my shooting friends. Even our mechanics use the stuff, a high-tech penetrating oil, and cleaner lubricant on steroids.
I've seen other products have minor reaction to stainless or even sometimes chrome, I don't remember whether it's actually reacting with the ferrous metals in the steel which is my supposition, the Chrome or the nickel that's in that steel. But my supposition would be that it is reacting with the ferris Metals within that test piece. Most products that promise to remove fouling will have a minor effect on the steel of a barrel. But because you're only supposed to use them for a short time it's not usually measurable by what we use to measure with.
You also didn't define what type of stainless that was, is it 4/16 stainless like many barrels are or what? I do know somebody who would know for sure what that reaction is, he's been a metal artist since he went to college after he got out of Vietnam. My gunsmith would know for sure. He has built rifles from scratch for a long time and built and came up with a lot of Innovations or weapons for SEAL Teams.
Finding it’s way to your trigger assembly would be a trouble . Test some other of your usual firearm cleaning products the same way .
Micro imaging and physical measurements are in order . Thanks for the test .
In industrial processes 304 and 316 stainless are most common. of those two metals 316 is the most resistant to corrosion from acids, so it is a bit more expensive. 416 will rust much easier.
Wow 🤯🤯 thanks for testing and opening my eyes.
Thank you.
You are aware that even stainless gun barrels 416 specifically still has carbon in it and that’s not oxidation. No one is leaving CLR longer than 15 mins in a barrel anyways, it softens the carbon, then u flush with alcohol or acetone thoroughly.
I just bought a tuner brake from Cortina and asked specifically if he had done a CLR clean on it like he did on his plain tuner. He had not, and after seeing this, I am going to have to revisit what he did to see how he avoided the immediate etching you saw here. Thanks!
If it is a nitrided brake, then CLR is not a good way to clean it. If it is the SS version, then rock on. I've left my SS EC Tuner brake in CLR (like completely submerged for around 5 hours to loosen up the heavy carbon buildup with zero impact to the steel.
Most likely Eric is making his tuners from 314 stainless which is virtually rust proof. Most brakes and barrels are made from 416 stainless which is very corrosion resistant but not corrosion proof.
So I just finished conducting the same exact test with patch out and accelerator and I came back in 18 days and the metal was gone!!! Oh what will my sponsors say?!?!?
Please run the same test with Free All.
I'll need another barrel stub for that. I only had the one.
@@winninginthewind how about just flipping the barrel stub you have over? Thanks for putting this together
Use the left over stub barrel
Well I’ve been wondering how to darken up a stainless barrel
Interesting result! I’ve been soaking my stainless steel Terminator muzzle brakes in Australian CLR and it certainly hasn’t ever resulted in any discolouration or etching as you’ve demonstrated here... often times I leave the brake soak for a day or two to remove the carbon deposits.
Either the concentration you have access too in the USA is stronger or T3 muzzle brakes are a different grade of stainless steel..?
I do the same thing and leave my t3 muzzle brake in for hours and know discoloration
I see that same result in my SS EC Tuner. Zero discoloration, but all the carbon comes off the brake with a q-tip at most.
Acid is the most effective rust accelerator on the planet, and CLR is loaded with a few different kinds of it. Far better to stick with solvents.
Either way I know there are better products out to clean. But if the barrel is plugged at both ends and if present a gas port plug it too, sand blast or bead blast it and drop it in a tank or CLR and Walla a home stainless barrel black. Maybe?
if you want to use clr test for yourself, ill explain, after seeing this video i was curious and i had a factory take off tikka barrel stainless that i thought id test, mind you there are differing series of stainless and stainless is a mix of stuff but i soaked the tip of that tikka stainless barrel in clr for about 6 hrs and it had no change whatsoever in coloration no effects of etching at all so take that for what its worth. a different barrel a different result. still the use of iosso cleans carbon out of a bore 10x faster than clr
Thank you, thank you, thank you. ..
What are you using instead to get rid off the carbon ?
I would like to see the same tst but using just tap water. I think any chemical or even tap water left over night will discolor it. Great TEST my friend.
I think the color turned out better with CLR!!!
Soaked an old what looks like an old powder measure part overnight, at least 22hrs in CLR, the CLR didn't touch this part, no damage whatsoever., wish I could post a pic here.
Thank you for all that you do for us. Three years have passed. What do you currently use for carbon removal?
What is used to neutralize it?
how do we know if the stuff floating around in the berger box was corrosive or had anti corrosion properties you have too many variables at play in that test
It's funny that when I soak my S Steel brake there is absolutely no discoloration at all. It must have something to do with the alloy. I have soaked it for more than 24 hours. So as I believe it says on most cleaners, test in an inconspicuous area.
I use anti seize on my 22 baffles, easy to clean an no issues. Just messy.
I used clr in my shotgun barrel with the mop then used another mop with baking soda diluted in water to neutralise no problem as for now. 1-2 min wait
Does leaving solvent do the same thing?
That would depend on the solvent, and what's in it.
How do you do your engraving?
Years, decades actually, of working with SS pipe and tubing, often nuclear grade, has proven over and over.., and over -- that; contrary to what most people believe, alloys are closer to chocolate chip cookie dough than to a cake mix. They are not homogeneous. There are inconsistent mixtures of trace metals and minerals -- with the result being analogous to knots in wood. That's what those "blotches" are. Minor differences in the makeup of the alloy. It is caused by inadequate mixing, followed by the effects of gravity on the differing densities of dissimilar materials, which are in turn effected -- differently -- with changes in temperature. Extremely consistent mixtures, and even "impossible" mixtures, (in Earth norm conditions) are the hopes of Materials Science Specialists in Micro-gravity conditions. "Space Industries! There's Room for Hope!"
Plus, "The School of the American Rifle" TH-cam channel has some videos (frozen/stuck adjustable gas blocks) where he uses (has used for years) a soak-style carburetor cleaner (starts with a capital "D") that hasn't done any damage to materials or finishes (that I'm aware of) The focus was on carbon build up and freeing "frozen" parts... THAT... is the extent of my knowledge. Review of those videos and experimenting with the product might be a worthy video...!?!???
I know it works. He only (in the videos) wiped the excess with paper towels.
(Hazardous! Eyewear, Gloves and Ventilation)
I hope this helps. The channel I referenced appears to be among the best. 5 out of 5 stars for reliability. 5 out of 5 for knowledge. 5 out of 5 for trustworthiness. (You can tell I'm a fan.., I'm biased)
What engraver did you decide on?
I'm using a dremel tool free-hand with a very small abrasive bit.
I did the same experiment with SS washers, 3 new and one with carbon buildup. I couldn't mimic your results..... Weird
Not all alloys are the same.
not sure about etching at all. it looks like surface deposits
Odd that Erik Cortina says he does this with no issues on his muzzle brakes?? 🤔
Looks like what Vinegar does to metal after eating rust off.
want to see a lot of rust just wait for a very very humid day and see what happens to that area affected by CLR
you'll need to heavily brush the rust off with another solvent or CLR again.
soon you will have just bare steel no stainless steel protection.
if you use CLR on your barrels water it down at least 50/50 but dry it out 100% asap
This was helpful. It's not at all illogical to believe that the chemical alteration you saw in 2 hours wouldn't happen over repeated 15 minute cycles. That rough texture would seem to affect the ability of a bullet to pass through the bore and taper off as subsequent bullets wore more of that black stuff/texture off. That would lead to varying velocities and pressures which could very much affect bullet flights to long distances. Maybe not 100 yards, but 1k yards...maybe. Plus, whatever it is, it isn't solid stainless barrel anymore.
The rest of this is in jest to try to be funny. Don't take this as a genuine attack, jus' bein' funny (or trying to, anyway):
This test is obviously fake as evidenced by your time stamp of 5:45 *AM*. That's just made up stuff...ain't no such thing as any time before 7 AM! Period! Also, Erik Cortina says he uses CLR and he's an F-class shooter and F-class shooters never lie or mislead others in their attempts to shoot well. That's a fact. I read it on the Internets. ;)
If I remember right that CLR is nothing more than phosphoric acid, so you are doing no more than etching that steel away which is not what you want.
What barrel manufacturer does he use?
Brux
CLR is acidic. I wonder what it would do to chrome moly barrel. I know that hoppes can stay in a barrel for 6 months and won't harm the barrel. Ok let's rinse the barrel with alcohol. Alcohol does not neutralize acid. Not putting it in my rifles.
How about JB pasting the etched surface just for the giggles.
If you think you need anything other than Hoppes 9, you're over thinking it.
wierd, it didnt discolor cortinas stainless brake he left in it overnight.
What is that brake made of? Is it 416R like a barrel or 303/304? It makes a difference...
Did you damage or improve the stainless? Maybe soaking a barrel in CLR will become a new fad.🙂
Too many quality cleaning products made specifically for bore cleaning. Doesnt make sense to use something like clr imho
"Stainless" steel is stainless steel all the way through the chunk of metal - etching the surface won't make the new surface any less "stainless" (less rust resistant).
It appears that CLR may be useful for darkening stainless, but I definitely don't want it inside my bore.
Stainless steels can be damaged by chemicals, especially salts. There are many videos showing how to engrave stainless steel knives blades with just some salted water, a small battery and a wire. Stainless steel can rust too in some circumstances
Who cleans a gun with CLR
You tube it, lots of precision guys, most notably Eric Cortina
Yet, Erik Cortina leaves his stainless muzzle breaks, etc. soaking for two days with no ill effect noted. Go figure.
So, what alloy is he making them out of? 303? Something else?
@@winninginthewind I have no idea, but he uses it on his stainless rifle barrels too.
I'll just stick with p
Products that are proven
With so many excellent safe products to clean barrels, I dont know why you know who says this is a good idea.
I wonder if "you know who" will comment on this video?
Erik Cortina does and that is good enough for me
@@mickroberts5166 I hope all of my competitors use CLR to clean their guns.
@@FullSendPrecision Erik does, so try your luck there :-)
Remember the fad years ago of using hydrogen peroxide to clean stainless barrels? I forget what the "in" crowd was mixing with to create the final product but it was found to etch the barrel over time. Most cleaning expedients have a price...and a damaged bore is generally the price.
Are you sure this is stainless?
Absolutely, it's 416R
@@winninginthewind That is really strange. I have never seen stainless steal reacting like that. Have you ever compared it with an CrNiMo-Steel like 1.4401 or 1.4571 (316)? I really don't understand that. 416R should be better than 316 in most of the cases anyways. Have you tried to comepare it with normal steel? Where did you get this piece of barrel from? Is it possible that it is normal steel without you knowing it?
This is really interesting. Maybe you should try to dig a bit deeper.
Do a little research into 416R steel. It is quite the different animal from the 300 series. It's what I describe as Stain Less steel. It still will corrode in conditions that 300 series stainless would simply laugh at. The Barrel that came from this stub is worn out, but it's definitely 416R.
@@winninginthewind you are right. I got that wrong. 416R is much stronger but also much more likely to corrode. Where I come from, muzzle breaks are made from 300 series steel while barrels are also made from 416R. This might be the reason that CLR is used to clean breaks without any issues. Probably it is the same in the US.
That's not good
What is CLR?
It's a product brand name.
@@barrygrant2907 thank you Sir 🤝
It's a household cleaner that happens to also help with the removal of carbon fouling. I've been using CLR for the past two years and have been amazed at how quickly it allows me to get carbon out. That said, I'll also give free all a try because it sounds like it may be just as good.
@@nilescoyote4829 thank you Sir 🤝
I heard about how great CLR was at cleaning gun parts, carbon etc. So I gave it a try, big mistake. It destroyed everything it touched. And took only minutes on some parts. My suggestion, don’t do it.