Thanks for posting. I’m always interested in other people’s cleaning methods. I appreciate your explanation for your method. Very interesting. Thanks for taking time to share.
"clean and maintain on a regular cycle". - yes, this. It gets old dealing with the "deep clean every time" crowd. That's just not necessary. This method works great and is so much less time consuming. Thanks!
When shooting on P. dog towns with a lot of shooting, we brushed 15 strokes with good bronze bristle brush, then went to 5 patches soaked with JB as Bryan demonstrated, then 5 patches of your favorite solvent to wash the JB out of the bore, dry patches, called it done. Each barrel and caliber will demand a certain regiment to maintain a particular accuracy standard you want, and I can not stress this enough. Carbon builds up on it's self, gets so hard that only serious abrasives can get it out. This opens up throat dia and length. You can measure throat dia with reamer pilots graduated in .0002 increments used on a grizzley rod, and it is a shocking learning curve.
What I do is plug one end of the barrel with a number 2 pencil, or one of the fat ones kindergarteners use, depending on caliber. Then I open an old lead acid car battery or two and use a turkey baster to fill the barrel with acid standing on end. I ground it by soldering a 4ga copper wire on the bare steel inside the end of the barrel attached to a 4’ solid copper rod driven into the ground exactly 3 1/2 feet deep. Then I leave it in the sun for exactly 13 days. I start adding 1/2 teaspoon of baking soda in through the breech every 4 hrs for 4 days. Then I solder shut the breech with fishing weights and a propane torch and then cool it with dry ice. Then 7 days later I cut the copper grounding wire. Flip the barrel muzzle end up… I take a ball peen hammer and drive the no 2 pencil into the muzzle till it’s flat all the way in. Then I take a metal rod the same caliber diameter as the bore and drive the pencil through the barrel while slowly heating the breech in a fire made of dogwood and rosewood. While driving the pencil through the bore, the lead plug from the fishing weights will heat up and give way under pressure. When the fire hits the acid mixture it will ignite and blow the pencil half way out of the barrel and then suck it back in all the way through the barrel and out the breech into the fire in an instant. But only if you have done it right. If it doesn’t then you have to start over again. And then, after that, I run a couple of oiled patches through it to protect it from rusting and you are done. Barrel will be cleaner than from the factory every time. I should add that I only clean my rifle after at least 20 rounds. But I never let it go more than 30 before I clean it. Hope this helps. 👍 Way better than how we cleaned them i the army. Their way took forever and the armorer would keep sending you back till you cleaned all the bluing off of every part. 🤷🏼
I have started cleaning brand new, lower cost rifle barrels (ie basic rifle from the store) with JB paste before doing any shooting. I believe this helps speed the "break in" process and gets the barrel "conditioned" with as little ammo wasted as possible ;)
Very good tutorial and info. Said another way, you lapped the bore and polished the chamber. Cleaning isn't just a nice thing to do. It's a safety and higher standard. Reviewers and influencers are often unfair as they test guns dry 'straight out the box' for entertainment purposes. Low standards. They should clean and lube all guns from the start to eliminate variables. They're complacent and have a personal bias. Too lazy to lean, and too embarrassed to ask for help. Keep up the good and honest work. Integrity matters 👍
EXACTLY Right, other reviewers are simply a waste of time to watch, I won't watch any of them ever, for example - "backfire", the dud is clueless, but, then again, most of america is, precisely why america is what it is & "backfire" gets watched....lol
Thank you for posting a public video!. I have gone from the no clean, and let it equalize crowd. to cleaning basically every prs match worth of ammo...so 80-150 ish... I get what Frank Green from bartlein was getting at.... more worried about people over using abrasives with bronze brushes SPECIFICALLY. he didn't say anything about not using abrasives on patches or nylon brushes... he said if you're not hurting the barrel, he's got no issues.
Against advice from "seasoned" shooters, I have been doing this almost exactly for a while. Turns out I must be a genius. 😮 Thanks for the confirmation video.
What I do is plug one end of the barrel with a number 2 pencil, or one of the fat ones kindergarteners use, depending on caliber. Then I open an old lead acid car battery or two and use a turkey baster to fill the barrel with acid standing on end. I ground it by soldering a 4ga copper wire on the bare steel inside the end of the barrel attached to a 4’ solid copper rod driven into the ground exactly 3 1/2 feet deep. Then I leave it in the sun for exactly 13 days. I start adding 1/2 teaspoon of baking soda in through the breech every 4 hrs for 4 days. Then I solder shut the breech with fishing weights and a propane torch and then cool it with dry ice. Then 7 days later I cut the copper grounding wire. Flip the barrel muzzle end up… I take a ball peen hammer and drive the no 2 pencil into the muzzle till it’s flat all the way in. Then I take a metal rod the same caliber diameter as the bore and drive the pencil through the barrel while slowly heating the breech in a fire made of dogwood and rosewood. While driving the pencil through the bore, the lead plug from the fishing weights will heat up and give way under pressure. When the fire hits the acid mixture it will ignite and blow the pencil half way out of the barrel and then suck it back in all the way through the barrel and out the breech into the fire in an instant. But only if you have done it right. If it doesn’t then you have to start over again. And then, after that, I run a couple of oiled patches through it to protect it from rusting and you are done. Barrel will be cleaner than from the factory every time. I should add that I only clean my rifle after at least 20 rounds. But I never let it go more than 30 before I clean it. Hope this helps. 👍 Way better than how we cleaned them i the army. Their way took forever and the armorer would keep sending you back till you cleaned all the bluing off of every part. 🤷🏼
I have your book “Applied Ballistics for Long Range Shooting” but just stumbled across this channel. Your book is an excellent resource and I suspect this channel will be as well. Subscribed.
I use a lot of JB Bore Paste. I wrap a patch around a worn nylon brush and plaster on the JB. I also run a couple of wet patches thru first and always use a bore guide. Very clean barrels.
Been doing that method forever... Looks like we might be the only two . LoL 😊 I would have thought there'd been more people to agree with that statement.
What I do is plug one end of the barrel with a number 2 pencil, or one of the fat ones kindergarteners use, depending on caliber. Then I open an old lead acid car battery or two and use a turkey baster to fill the barrel with acid standing on end. I ground it by soldering a 4ga copper wire on the bare steel inside the end of the barrel attached to a 4’ solid copper rod driven into the ground exactly 3 1/2 feet deep. Then I leave it in the sun for exactly 13 days. I start adding 1/2 teaspoon of baking soda in through the breech every 4 hrs for 4 days. Then I solder shut the breech with fishing weights and a propane torch and then cool it with dry ice. Then 7 days later I cut the copper grounding wire. Flip the barrel muzzle end up… I take a ball peen hammer and drive the no 2 pencil into the muzzle till it’s flat all the way in. Then I take a metal rod the same caliber diameter as the bore and drive the pencil through the barrel while slowly heating the breech in a fire made of dogwood and rosewood. While driving the pencil through the bore, the lead plug from the fishing weights will heat up and give way under pressure. When the fire hits the acid mixture it will ignite and blow the pencil half way out of the barrel and then suck it back in all the way through the barrel and out the breech into the fire in an instant. But only if you have done it right. If it doesn’t then you have to start over again. And then, after that, I run a couple of oiled patches through it to protect it from rusting and you are done. Barrel will be cleaner than from the factory every time. I should add that I only clean my rifle after at least 20 rounds. But I never let it go more than 30 before I clean it. Hope this helps. 👍 Way better than how we cleaned them i the army. Their way took forever and the armorer would keep sending you back till you cleaned all the bluing off of every part. 🤷🏼
This is how I clean barrels when I buy a used rifle.. often they were sold because "they stopped shooting".. 9 times out of 10, this cleaning (and some hand loading) gets them shooting small groups again ;)
What I do is plug one end of the barrel with a number 2 pencil, or one of the fat ones kindergarteners use, depending on caliber. Then I open an old lead acid car battery or two and use a turkey baster to fill the barrel with acid standing on end. I ground it by soldering a 4ga copper wire on the bare steel inside the end of the barrel attached to a 4’ solid copper rod driven into the ground exactly 3 1/2 feet deep. Then I leave it in the sun for exactly 13 days. I start adding 1/2 teaspoon of baking soda in through the breech every 4 hrs for 4 days. Then I solder shut the breech with fishing weights and a propane torch and then cool it with dry ice. Then 7 days later I cut the copper grounding wire. Flip the barrel muzzle end up… I take a ball peen hammer and drive the no 2 pencil into the muzzle till it’s flat all the way in. Then I take a metal rod the same caliber diameter as the bore and drive the pencil through the barrel while slowly heating the breech in a fire made of dogwood and rosewood. While driving the pencil through the bore, the lead plug from the fishing weights will heat up and give way under pressure. When the fire hits the acid mixture it will ignite and blow the pencil half way out of the barrel and then suck it back in all the way through the barrel and out the breech into the fire in an instant. But only if you have done it right. If it doesn’t then you have to start over again. And then, after that, I run a couple of oiled patches through it to protect it from rusting and you are done. Barrel will be cleaner than from the factory every time. I should add that I only clean my rifle after at least 20 rounds. But I never let it go more than 30 before I clean it. Hope this helps. 👍 Way better than how we cleaned them i the army. Their way took forever and the armorer would keep sending you back till you cleaned all the bluing off of every part. 🤷🏼
For many out there I will cover a couple tidbits Brian didn't in this circumstance that are causing questions. One - the bore guide, or lack thereof. He is using a Tipton carbon fiber cleaning rod. It shouldn't hurt anything, wiped cleaned before each session back into the bore. Look them up, they embody many positives. Two - his paste here appears to be the bore bright and I guess the method is adopted for competition speeds. The JB cleaning paste (brown not grey) and Kroil method is easier on elbow grease but longer on time. Benchrest shooters for many years abide the two part process.
I use Bore Tech Eliminator with patch and nylon brush to start, then KG2 Bore polish (1400 grit) with patch and nylon brush. Finish with Thorroclean (patch and nylon brush) to remove the last bit of carbon. Using a borescope I have found that one product alone will never remove all of the copper AND carbon. Using these three products in this order will clean a barrel down to the steel if that's what you want. Bore Tech Eliminator is an awesome daily driver for patching after shooting, removes big chunks of everything and leaves a bit of copper and carbon behind.
@@StuninRubno, he doesnt want to give any retard with a bronze brush and a drill a free barrel for being dumb hahaha....and yes I've see the primal rights video.... Bartleins shoot
I dont think Frank would be too concerned with how he's cleaning it....benchrest guys, maybe....because of no bore guide. But as bryan states....the rifle hammers... But frank was pretty specific about not using abrasives in conjunction with bronze brushes.... He didn't quite give a hard no answer on abrasives with patches or nylon brushes..... But he is uncomfortable with people who don't know whats going on to go hog wild with them is what i gathered from all the interviews i have found with Frank. Im in the middle.....i use abrasives yet im dreadful careful lol....i dont want my razor sharp crown getting rounded over hahaha...over polishing leading to the coppoer fouling issues ...or making my bore inconsistent diameter or bell mouthing the muzzle
Good tutorial, I prefer removing carbon & copper fouling first, then lap, precisely what I do with a brand new barrel prior to shooting aswell, results are favored for sure.
This was interesting. I have used bore paste for years but as my last operation on a barrel after having used solvents to get at the copper. I will give this a try. Thanks for posting it.
I use Bore Tech Eliminator to start, then KG2 Bore polish (1400 grit) Finish with Thorroclean to remove the last bit of carbon. Using a borescope I have found that one product alone will never remove all of the copper AND carbon. Using these three products in this order will clean a barrel down to the steel if that's what you want. Bore Tech Eliminator is an awesome daily driver for patching after shooting, removes big chunks of everything and leaves a bit of copper and carbon behind.
Thoroclean / thoroflush does not get rid of fire cracking high spots/ rough edges . You were not paying attention. It’s not just about removing carbon .
I’m sure thorroclean is great on copper and carbon fouling but it cannot abrade metal like stainless steel like a lapping compound does . Thorroclean cannot remove raised edges of the parent metal .
I appreciate the video Bryan On one of my 22CM rifles that has a Proof, 1/7, 24” chambered by Virlee Gunworks. Shoots a .231” 7O Berger VLD. I have always been a clean gun on low round count. I clean 30 rounds with a soak overnite with whipeout. Then Iossa Nylon brush w/Accelorator + whipeout. I will use 95-97% alcohol flush with immediate dry patching. A slight carbon ring typically forms in a broken faded shape. I then use Thorough Clean on a wet patch followed up with Nylon brush. I pay attention to the color of the brush and after 6-8 strokes, I flush the barrel with alcohol, dry patches, flush the brush and hit with air. I then repeat if necessary. One satisfied with the barrel clean, flushed and dry patched. I then lubricate the bore with Tetra Bore Lube. Oil is fine. Before shooting / hunting, I dry patch(s) the oil. Currently have about 975-1000 rounds through the barrel and she is still shooting pretty decent, .336” group. The barrel is expected to last about 1400-1800 rounds but time will tell and group size will have to be .50” or better. This rifle is a coyote night rig. Just wanted to pass this along and gather any comments from you and the group. Thanks Bryan.
After a good barrel break-in, however you like to do it, maintain accuracy. This means clean, confirm zero with up to 5-30 rounds, and maintain your zero. Keep it simple.
If you use boretech’s abrasive, chameleon, yes. I use boretech products and they say to do that on their product. I’m very cautious of mixing different companies products. lol I don’t want a bad chemistry experiment in my bartlein
@79brumley that's what I wanted to know, I started using Iosso because, of course, Erik Cortina recommended it. But then I stopped because of several people saying it could be overused and cause irreparable damage real easily. I don't own a bore scope and I know I need one. This is why I am askinh.
I ran a test with side-by-side 375 EnABELRs. We shot them on identical cycles with identical ammo. The only difference was, one rifle we never cleaned and the other rifle we cleaned with abrasive every 100 rounds. The rifle that we cleaned with abrasives lasted about 50% longer. Also, the rifle that was never cleaned, it was runing 100 fps faster compared to the rifle we maintained with abrasive cleaning. This is all exaggerated for those large calibers that burn that much powder. But the same thing happens to a much lesser extent for smaller cartridges.
Bryan do you run lock ease down the barrel after cleaning as suggested by Speedy Gonzales to get longer life before barrel is not shooting at acceptable competition accuracy? Thanks
So some interesting food for thought regarding this process. I do a similar process, but I use Thorroclean. I came to this conclusion myself when I noticed I was chasing velocity increases. This process restored the consistency in my reloading/shooting. However, what I've noticed is after doing this, it takes about 10 or shot shots for the velocity to stabilize. I have a custom 6.5 prc with a load that shoots around 2880. After this process the exact same loads started out at 2830, and each shot continued to rise in velocity until it leveled off about 50fps higher than the first shot. After this the speed was level. Can you explain why this is happening? Is it the copper build up on a freshly cleaned bore?
Yes! That's exactly the behavior I see after a cleaning. It is very repeatable to the point you can anticipate it. I would say what's happening is your smoothing the roughness when you clean it. For the first few shots post cleaning, the barrel is smooth and the shots are the slowest. As the barrel builds roughness, the pressure feeds back and velocity increases. After a while, the roughness in the barrel stabilizers for many shots. That's when you see your velocity plateau. Then, as you continue shooting, at some point the barrel increases in roughness, and that's when things start to go too high and you have to clean again.
@@Teolulz Both. Here's a typical cycle... Rifle is running up to 2900 fps when dirty. Clean it per the video and the first shot will be like 2750. But then within the first 10 shots, the velocity will plateau around 2800-2850 fps. From there the velocity migration will be very gradual but creeping up until you need to set it back again. This is an exaggerated example (375 EnABELR) but a lesser version of this progression occurs with 6 Dashers too.
@@Teolulz The last time I did this, I was finishing off a lot of powder and just loading what I had left in the bottle. Once that was done, I was switching over to a new lot to test it. For this specific example, I had 28 shots total. I shot 3 foulers, then proceeded to shoot the remaining 25 shots in 5, 5 shot groups. All of these were charged using the Autotrickler so the powder charge was the same. Group 1- 2839. Group 2- 2863. Group 3- 2877. Group 4- 2895. Group 5-2907. So an average of 68fps gained over 28 shots all the exact same load. After this I switched over to my new lot and everything was stable with low ES/SD. Pretty strange...
@@xxshiftlockxxPowder will absorb moisture over time if your previous powder container was older or had been opened and closed numerous times of it's life that can definitely have an effect
What I do is plug one end of the barrel with a number 2 pencil, or one of the fat ones kindergarteners use, depending on caliber. Then I open an old lead acid car battery or two and use a turkey baster to fill the barrel with acid standing on end. I ground it by soldering a 4ga copper wire on the bare steel inside the end of the barrel attached to a 4’ solid copper rod driven into the ground exactly 3 1/2 feet deep. Then I leave it in the sun for exactly 13 days. I start adding 1/2 teaspoon of baking soda in through the breech every 4 hrs for 4 days. Then I solder shut the breech with fishing weights and a propane torch and then cool it with dry ice. Then 7 days later I cut the copper grounding wire. Flip the barrel muzzle end up… I take a ball peen hammer and drive the no 2 pencil into the muzzle till it’s flat all the way in. Then I take a metal rod the same caliber diameter as the bore and drive the pencil through the barrel while slowly heating the breech in a fire made of dogwood and rosewood. While driving the pencil through the bore, the lead plug from the fishing weights will heat up and give way under pressure. When the fire hits the acid mixture it will ignite and blow the pencil half way out of the barrel and then suck it back in all the way through the barrel and out the breech into the fire in an instant. But only if you have done it right. If it doesn’t then you have to start over again. And then, after that, I run a couple of oiled patches through it to protect it from rusting and you are done. Barrel will be cleaner than from the factory every time. I should add that I only clean my rifle after at least 20 rounds. But I never let it go more than 30 before I clean it. Hope this helps. 👍 Way better than how we cleaned them i the army. Their way took forever and the armorer would keep sending you back till you cleaned all the bluing off of every part. 🤷🏼
What I do is plug one end of the barrel with a number 2 pencil, or one of the fat ones kindergarteners use, depending on caliber. Then I open an old lead acid car battery or two and use a turkey baster to fill the barrel with acid standing on end. I ground it by soldering a 4ga copper wire on the bare steel inside the end of the barrel attached to a 4’ solid copper rod driven into the ground exactly 3 1/2 feet deep. Then I leave it in the sun for exactly 13 days. I start adding 1/2 teaspoon of baking soda in through the breech every 4 hrs for 4 days. Then I solder shut the breech with fishing weights and a propane torch and then cool it with dry ice. Then 7 days later I cut the copper grounding wire. Flip the barrel muzzle end up… I take a ball peen hammer and drive the no 2 pencil into the muzzle till it’s flat all the way in. Then I take a metal rod the same caliber diameter as the bore and drive the pencil through the barrel while slowly heating the breech in a fire made of dogwood and rosewood. While driving the pencil through the bore, the lead plug from the fishing weights will heat up and give way under pressure. When the fire hits the acid mixture it will ignite and blow the pencil half way out of the barrel and then suck it back in all the way through the barrel and out the breech into the fire in an instant. But only if you have done it right. If it doesn’t then you have to start over again. And then, after that, I run a couple of oiled patches through it to protect it from rusting and you are done. Barrel will be cleaner than from the factory every time. I should add that I only clean my rifle after at least 20 rounds. But I never let it go more than 30 before I clean it. Hope this helps. 👍 Way better than how we cleaned them i the army. Their way took forever and the armorer would keep sending you back till you cleaned all the bluing off of every part. 🤷🏼
I have only seen fire cracking in one of my barrels - 5.56 Ruger precision rifle with factory barrel which shot really accurately when it was new but declined. Maybe I haven't shot the other barrels enough.
Good stuff! Thanks for sharing. What parameters do you use to identify that a barrel is "broken in"? Some say an slight increase in velocity. I assume velocity levels unlike continued increase as you point out due to bullet drag.
I have trouble with leading or polymer (not sure if it is one or both) with polymer coated bullets (9mm) after shooting a handgun. I have a difficult time cleaning this out of the barrel. Lately I have shot about 3 copper jacketed bullets after shooting the polymer coated bullets and that cleans out the barrel for me.
My 6.5 grendel get not as fast firecracking, so i clean after every training from around 50 shots with boretec carbon cleaner and when i see copper with the copper cleaner, put the gun away with oil in the barrel, and before the shooting i make it dry, and around 200 shoots i use the jp pasta.
Typical Engineer. Don't tip-toe around the issue. Use abrasive, remove abrasive, and do it more frequently as the barrel ages, the end. 😆 Back when he used to answer emails over a decade ago, he was no different. "This matters, this doesn't, the end, go practice reading wind." Great video Bryan!
The pics were from 2020, is this a repost of an earlier video? For new barrels I do this alot in the very beginning for the first 200+ shots or so. Before I do this with JB paste though, I use the KG carbon remover and copper remover. After that I use the JB paste to do a slight smoothing of the bore because the KG stuff has already cleaned the barrel. Once I past 200+ shots I use the JB paste less, just to keep things maintained.
Hello Brian. Do you have any experience with the Garmin xcero when mounted on the weapon. What deviation is there? For example if it is mounted on a 10kg heavy 338LM? Thank you, greetings from Germany. Michael
Thank you for explaining the changes in cleaning window over the life of the barrel. My competition barrel’s window has been shrinking and I didn’t understand why. It should have half its life remaining but my rounds-before-cleaning window is half what it used to be. I can see now I have been underutilizing bore paste out of fear I would induce too much wear.
The only way I clean mine after 250 rounds a little more oil though and pre patches. Actually the only way I can clean it everything else barely works. Thank you for confirming what my findings were. I actually saw barrels get better at about 1100 rounds. Yes more cleaning but groups and sds came alive. Now my question is why do we break in barrels why not Jb a fresh barrel and go for it?
What I do is plug one end of the barrel with a number 2 pencil, or one of the fat ones kindergarteners use, depending on caliber. Then I open an old lead acid car battery or two and use a turkey baster to fill the barrel with acid standing on end. I ground it by soldering a 4ga copper wire on the bare steel inside the end of the barrel attached to a 4’ solid copper rod driven into the ground exactly 3 1/2 feet deep. Then I leave it in the sun for exactly 13 days. I start adding 1/2 teaspoon of baking soda in through the breech every 4 hrs for 4 days. Then I solder shut the breech with fishing weights and a propane torch and then cool it with dry ice. Then 7 days later I cut the copper grounding wire. Flip the barrel muzzle end up… I take a ball peen hammer and drive the no 2 pencil into the muzzle till it’s flat all the way in. Then I take a metal rod the same caliber diameter as the bore and drive the pencil through the barrel while slowly heating the breech in a fire made of dogwood and rosewood. While driving the pencil through the bore, the lead plug from the fishing weights will heat up and give way under pressure. When the fire hits the acid mixture it will ignite and blow the pencil half way out of the barrel and then suck it back in all the way through the barrel and out the breech into the fire in an instant. But only if you have done it right. If it doesn’t then you have to start over again. And then, after that, I run a couple of oiled patches through it to protect it from rusting and you are done. Barrel will be cleaner than from the factory every time. I should add that I only clean my rifle after at least 20 rounds. But I never let it go more than 30 before I clean it. Hope this helps. 👍 Way better than how we cleaned them i the army. Their way took forever and the armorer would keep sending you back till you cleaned all the bluing off of every part. 🤷🏼
The cost of the rifle is irrelevant. The cost of the barrel is what counts. He probably gets the barrels for free, but I agree with the notion that a bore guide is advisable. Heck, I have some old ones for the MRAD I sold years ago lying around somewhere.
Don’t know if anybody would be interested in a couple of extra step that I do. I actually cut circular leather(cowhide) patches and instead of running the second patch with the JB paste I use the piece of cowhide with JB paste. Just cowhide, not a thick piece of leather. Then I clean everything but at the end of that, I just put some oil on a separate patch of cowhide and I worked the barrel back-and-forth again. I am a 22 shooter so I do not have to deal with copper. I only shoot lead and I do not have the fire cracking like the big guns but I’m telling you it gets unbelievably clean and polished.
When I use abrasives I use them on Parker Hale style jags. Big reason is being able to control how tight they fit depending on how I roll them and with what size patch
@BryanLitzBallistics, I love your content. I'm new to this and became a member of your site to learn, and it's been great! I'm curious about a few things. Why no bore guide? Also, It would have been interesting to see Velocities before and after cleaning. I've noticed my velocities climbing, and I will try this method with bore paste.
I use a bore guide in the rare occasion where I'm using solvents to clean a conventional rifle where it would leak down into / around/ thru the trigger / bedding, etc. With paste, with the MRAD... I don't see a reason to use a bore guide. I'm not runnin' that rod in there fast enough to damage anything. Besides, I've cleaned many MRAD barrels this way for their entire life and they hammer all the way. So I guess I don't do things that I don't see evidence or believe they're necessary. Totally agree I should have shot velocities before and after! Having not done that, experience tells me to expect about a 50-75 fps set back on the first 1-3 shots, and it will settle out about 25-50 fps slower than where it left off dirty, and spend the next 100-200 rounds migrating back up. Hopefully this method helps with the velocity migration you've seen in your rifles.
I tried those, thinking it would be a better way of doing the abrasive cleaning. The problem I had was; it was hard to get enough tension with them. Even when screwed on and swelled to the max. I went back to patches because I can make them tight enough in the bore to really scrub. I could get the same result with the felts, but it takes more cycles and time.
@BryanLitzBallistics that's really odd..... I've used the felts, both the copper reinforced and the regular white ones, on no less than 2 dozen different barrels over the past 6 years or so. ALL of them, including the shotguns, I got the felts so tight, I almost had to hammer the rod, and the strokes were definitely degenerating a lot of heat in the barrel. I usually do 25 to 50 passes, and up to 100(lol not every barrel I work with is custom match, some need extra lovin) and the felts hold up fine. I use 3 pellets on the screw jag. Get them ready with paste. Push it a few inches into the bore. Grab the rod and twist to tighten the pellets. Rifling grabs the pellets, causing them to screw onto the jag tighter. Once I can't turn the rod anymore, it's time to go to town. Every 10-ish strokes, it's time to grab the rod and tighten again. Lands and grooves are clearly imprinted on the pellets. I legitimately work up a sweat and get fatigued doing the strokes, and the barrel is warm to the touch. 100% of all carbon and copper is removed, checked with bore scope. It's odd that they don't work for you, but if the patches are good enough for you, those are cheaper, so that's good. If you ever get interested in scatter gats, I've discovered some very interesting things, such as distinct and repeatable "nodes" that affect the patterns. I've got a professional background in science too for what that's worth lol. Anyway keep up the good work.
As a metallurgist, it blows my mind that rifle makers and barrel manufacturers who specialize in high precision rifles have not addressed the root cause of barrel failure. "Fire cracking" is a problem that has been addressed in other industries, but for some reason the firearm industry just doesn't seem to want to actually fix the problem.
As a boilermaker and I remember metallurgy class. So in refineries and power generating stations the furnace tubes we install and weld are made out of inconel due to its higher melting point . Wouldn’t a inconel barrel prevent pre mature fire cracking ? Not saying it would eliminate it totally but something tells me it could take a lot more rounds before we see fire cracking .
@ higher yield and ultimate tensile strengths, higher thermal conductivity, and higher fracture toughness. It would also take a manufacturer who isn't scared to put some money on the line, which is basically none of them.
I think the issue is the difficulty of making barrels to the precision required, so the main steel characteristic being selected for is machinability. You will know that there are many military barrels with chrome lined bores which increases their life and reduces fire cracking and throat erosion substantially. You don't see chrome bores in any precision rifles as it tends to lower accuracy. The push toward higher performance cartridges with high round count use cases in recent years may spur some development on this front, but somehow I doubt it.
I watched this a few days ago, but I'm still wigging out about your using bore paste to clean a barrel. I'm assuming that you suggest it, despite it wearing out barrels fast, because you'll get more consistent results until you wear it out? What I mean is, using bore paste, maybe a 3k round barrel will only last 2k rounds, but those 2k rounds will be more consistent and accurate than the first 2k rounds of a barrel cleaned more gently? Or am I missing something. It is like Moses coming down the mountain and telling the Israelites to eat baby back ribs...
Mr. Litz, does this cleaning method result in the distance to the lands moving back prematurely? I have a Tikka CTR (in 6.5 Creedmoor) which I used this cleaning method on and the distance to the lands moved back by about 0.1" (100/1,000ths) in about 2,500-3,000 rounds. Maybe it's normal wear for 6.5. I'm not sure. The thing still shoots < 3/4 MOA (on average) for 5-shot groups but she used to shoot < 1/2 MOA.
Not sure what it's like for the 6.5, but in my 308, every 100 firings seems to erode the barrel throat back 0.002" or 0.003" Over 1000 rounds, that is 20 thou .. those add up.
@@joesquid6988 Thanks for the info! Yeah, the throat of my barrel eroded by 100 thou in 3,000 rounds. That ~0.0033" per 100 rounds. I guess it's not that different than the higher end of what you are seeing.
My only question is, how do I keep the patch on the jag for so many strokes 😂 like, he is obviously doing it somehow, but I can’t see myself doing it this way
What I can't figure out a jag and patch will not stay on ,pushing it and pulling, as soon as you pull it back it would fall right ,So what you would use is a bore brush with a patch around it .makes more sense .
If the patch fits correctly on the jag it will stay on there. You don’t just stuff the patch in there and push it through…. It has to drape over the sides of the jagg and fit right. The bristles on a brush will poke through and not press the patch against the bore properly. 🤷🏼
Interesting. I first did this not knowing what I’m doing, on my tikka stainless 308 after 700rnds. I used those quality VFG felts for good contour fit, first with jb bore paste (grey) and stroked back and forth in 4-6” strokes about 10-20times and progressively creeping about 1-2” from breach to muzzle finishing with full length strokes. I’d say hundreds of strokes all up. Repeated with jb bore brite (red, finer grit). And it turned into a mirror. I’m still sub moa with factory loads. I did same thing to my Brno Mod.2 in 22LR because it’s old and rusty and I found I was about 100fps below box velocity from 23-24” barrel and my friend got 100fps above box velocity from same box of ammo in his 16” CZ452 and he never cleaned with JB. So maybe this fits with first 5mins theory of this video. I found cleaning the residues took many patches, like 30+ and I had to use oil patches as well. Alternating dry-wet-dry and I remember it took a lot to get back to clean patches. I was a little concerned then, but watching all these other videos and stories makes me feel at ease in getting all the residue out. Ive seen “speedy” (benchrest shooter) in other videos finishes cleaning with graphite dry lube to “fill in and protect” the fire cracking as something extra. Might pay to use bore mop in chamber a few times to prevent any false positives from cleaning jb paste residue.
Thanks for sharing your experience. I haven't heard of 'speedys' method of using graphite after a cleaning, but that makes sense to me so I think I'll try it!
Hey bryan. Brilliant explanation. Just a question for you. How does the patch not come off the jag in barrel when pulling the stick on the back strokes.
Extremely helpful and I instantly subscribed. Thank you. I have been a big fan of Kroil and JB Bore Paste for a long time. I was happy to learn that I was not "over cleaning" my barrels since I do this about every 100 rounds. But of course I always clean with solvent after every range session also. I was brought up to "keep your cars and guns clean" by my father USMC. I was surprised how little oil you used to prep the barrel, and then remove the JB afterwards. I was thinking to get some JB Bore Bright (the polish) or similar polish also. Thoughts? Lastly, do you put any light oil through the bore afterwards?
Interesting, I'll definitely be trying this on my bolt boys. Out of curiosity do you think AR pattern rifles(with CHF barrels) could benefit from this?
I'm very cautious of using abrasives with gas guns because I DO NOT KNOW the effects of the abrasive getting into and through the gas system. I'm actually pretty nervous about that but don't know if or how much it could damage it.
Thanks Bryan for sharing your barrel cleaning thoughts and methods!
Thanks for posting. I’m always interested in other people’s cleaning methods. I appreciate your explanation for your method. Very interesting. Thanks for taking time to share.
First cleaning video that isn't useless! Thanks.
"clean and maintain on a regular cycle". - yes, this. It gets old dealing with the "deep clean every time" crowd. That's just not necessary. This method works great and is so much less time consuming. Thanks!
That's exactly how I've been cleaning my sniper rifle for many years. Great to see the theory confirmed by a knowledgeable expert. Thanks
So….. you kill people????
When shooting on P. dog towns with a lot of shooting, we brushed 15 strokes with good bronze bristle brush, then went to 5 patches soaked with JB as Bryan demonstrated, then 5 patches of your favorite solvent to wash the JB out of the bore, dry patches, called it done.
Each barrel and caliber will demand a certain regiment to maintain a particular accuracy standard you want, and I can not stress this enough.
Carbon builds up on it's self, gets so hard that only serious abrasives can get it out. This opens up throat dia and length. You can measure throat dia with reamer pilots graduated in .0002 increments used on a grizzley rod, and it is a shocking learning curve.
What I do is plug one end of the barrel with a number 2 pencil, or one of the fat ones kindergarteners use, depending on caliber. Then I open an old lead acid car battery or two and use a turkey baster to fill the barrel with acid standing on end. I ground it by soldering a 4ga copper wire on the bare steel inside the end of the barrel attached to a 4’ solid copper rod driven into the ground exactly 3 1/2 feet deep. Then I leave it in the sun for exactly 13 days. I start adding 1/2 teaspoon of baking soda in through the breech every 4 hrs for 4 days. Then I solder shut the breech with fishing weights and a propane torch and then cool it with dry ice. Then 7 days later I cut the copper grounding wire. Flip the barrel muzzle end up… I take a ball peen hammer and drive the no 2 pencil into the muzzle till it’s flat all the way in. Then I take a metal rod the same caliber diameter as the bore and drive the pencil through the barrel while slowly heating the breech in a fire made of dogwood and rosewood. While driving the pencil through the bore, the lead plug from the fishing weights will heat up and give way under pressure. When the fire hits the acid mixture it will ignite and blow the pencil half way out of the barrel and then suck it back in all the way through the barrel and out the breech into the fire in an instant. But only if you have done it right. If it doesn’t then you have to start over again.
And then, after that, I run a couple of oiled patches through it to protect it from rusting and you are done.
Barrel will be cleaner than from the factory every time.
I should add that I only clean my rifle after at least 20 rounds. But I never let it go more than 30 before I clean it.
Hope this helps. 👍
Way better than how we cleaned them i the army. Their way took forever and the armorer would keep sending you back till you cleaned all the bluing off of every part. 🤷🏼
I’m really impressed how fast that cleaned it. I’m definitely trying this method soon
Some bench rest shooters final swab with Lock Ease (graphite) to fill the fire cracking. Check out Speedy's cleaning video.
You brought up what I was going to say!👍
I have started cleaning brand new, lower cost rifle barrels (ie basic rifle from the store) with JB paste before doing any shooting.
I believe this helps speed the "break in" process and gets the barrel "conditioned" with as little ammo wasted as possible ;)
Very good tutorial and info. Said another way, you lapped the bore and polished the chamber. Cleaning isn't just a nice thing to do. It's a safety and higher standard. Reviewers and influencers are often unfair as they test guns dry 'straight out the box' for entertainment purposes. Low standards. They should clean and lube all guns from the start to eliminate variables. They're complacent and have a personal bias. Too lazy to lean, and too embarrassed to ask for help. Keep up the good and honest work. Integrity matters 👍
EXACTLY Right, other reviewers are simply a waste of time to watch, I won't watch any of them ever, for example - "backfire", the dud is clueless, but, then again, most of america is, precisely why america is what it is & "backfire" gets watched....lol
Thank you for posting a public video!.
I have gone from the no clean, and let it equalize crowd.
to cleaning basically every prs match worth of ammo...so 80-150 ish...
I get what Frank Green from bartlein was getting at....
more worried about people over using abrasives with bronze brushes SPECIFICALLY.
he didn't say anything about not using abrasives on patches or nylon brushes... he said if you're not hurting the barrel, he's got no issues.
Against advice from "seasoned" shooters, I have been doing this almost exactly for a while.
Turns out I must be a genius. 😮 Thanks for the confirmation video.
What I do is plug one end of the barrel with a number 2 pencil, or one of the fat ones kindergarteners use, depending on caliber. Then I open an old lead acid car battery or two and use a turkey baster to fill the barrel with acid standing on end. I ground it by soldering a 4ga copper wire on the bare steel inside the end of the barrel attached to a 4’ solid copper rod driven into the ground exactly 3 1/2 feet deep. Then I leave it in the sun for exactly 13 days. I start adding 1/2 teaspoon of baking soda in through the breech every 4 hrs for 4 days. Then I solder shut the breech with fishing weights and a propane torch and then cool it with dry ice. Then 7 days later I cut the copper grounding wire. Flip the barrel muzzle end up… I take a ball peen hammer and drive the no 2 pencil into the muzzle till it’s flat all the way in. Then I take a metal rod the same caliber diameter as the bore and drive the pencil through the barrel while slowly heating the breech in a fire made of dogwood and rosewood. While driving the pencil through the bore, the lead plug from the fishing weights will heat up and give way under pressure. When the fire hits the acid mixture it will ignite and blow the pencil half way out of the barrel and then suck it back in all the way through the barrel and out the breech into the fire in an instant. But only if you have done it right. If it doesn’t then you have to start over again.
And then, after that, I run a couple of oiled patches through it to protect it from rusting and you are done.
Barrel will be cleaner than from the factory every time.
I should add that I only clean my rifle after at least 20 rounds. But I never let it go more than 30 before I clean it.
Hope this helps. 👍
Way better than how we cleaned them i the army. Their way took forever and the armorer would keep sending you back till you cleaned all the bluing off of every part. 🤷🏼
Merry Christmas, Sir. Hope everyone has a blessed, and better new year.
I have your book “Applied Ballistics for Long Range Shooting” but just stumbled across this channel.
Your book is an excellent resource and I suspect this channel will be as well. Subscribed.
Can you provide the exact JB bore paste used in the video? There's several versions of the paste available and I don't want to purchase the wrong one.
I use a lot of JB Bore Paste. I wrap a patch around a worn nylon brush and plaster on the JB. I also run a couple of wet patches thru first and always use a bore guide. Very clean barrels.
Been doing that method forever...
Looks like we might be the only two .
LoL 😊
I would have thought there'd been more people to agree with that statement.
What I do is plug one end of the barrel with a number 2 pencil, or one of the fat ones kindergarteners use, depending on caliber. Then I open an old lead acid car battery or two and use a turkey baster to fill the barrel with acid standing on end. I ground it by soldering a 4ga copper wire on the bare steel inside the end of the barrel attached to a 4’ solid copper rod driven into the ground exactly 3 1/2 feet deep. Then I leave it in the sun for exactly 13 days. I start adding 1/2 teaspoon of baking soda in through the breech every 4 hrs for 4 days. Then I solder shut the breech with fishing weights and a propane torch and then cool it with dry ice. Then 7 days later I cut the copper grounding wire. Flip the barrel muzzle end up… I take a ball peen hammer and drive the no 2 pencil into the muzzle till it’s flat all the way in. Then I take a metal rod the same caliber diameter as the bore and drive the pencil through the barrel while slowly heating the breech in a fire made of dogwood and rosewood. While driving the pencil through the bore, the lead plug from the fishing weights will heat up and give way under pressure. When the fire hits the acid mixture it will ignite and blow the pencil half way out of the barrel and then suck it back in all the way through the barrel and out the breech into the fire in an instant. But only if you have done it right. If it doesn’t then you have to start over again.
And then, after that, I run a couple of oiled patches through it to protect it from rusting and you are done.
Barrel will be cleaner than from the factory every time.
I should add that I only clean my rifle after at least 20 rounds. But I never let it go more than 30 before I clean it.
Hope this helps. 👍
Way better than how we cleaned them i the army. Their way took forever and the armorer would keep sending you back till you cleaned all the bluing off of every part. 🤷🏼
This is how I clean barrels when I buy a used rifle.. often they were sold because "they stopped shooting".. 9 times out of 10, this cleaning (and some hand loading) gets them shooting small groups again ;)
Brilliant. I use Iosso bore paste on a patch wrapped around a nylon brush.
What I do is plug one end of the barrel with a number 2 pencil, or one of the fat ones kindergarteners use, depending on caliber. Then I open an old lead acid car battery or two and use a turkey baster to fill the barrel with acid standing on end. I ground it by soldering a 4ga copper wire on the bare steel inside the end of the barrel attached to a 4’ solid copper rod driven into the ground exactly 3 1/2 feet deep. Then I leave it in the sun for exactly 13 days. I start adding 1/2 teaspoon of baking soda in through the breech every 4 hrs for 4 days. Then I solder shut the breech with fishing weights and a propane torch and then cool it with dry ice. Then 7 days later I cut the copper grounding wire. Flip the barrel muzzle end up… I take a ball peen hammer and drive the no 2 pencil into the muzzle till it’s flat all the way in. Then I take a metal rod the same caliber diameter as the bore and drive the pencil through the barrel while slowly heating the breech in a fire made of dogwood and rosewood. While driving the pencil through the bore, the lead plug from the fishing weights will heat up and give way under pressure. When the fire hits the acid mixture it will ignite and blow the pencil half way out of the barrel and then suck it back in all the way through the barrel and out the breech into the fire in an instant. But only if you have done it right. If it doesn’t then you have to start over again.
And then, after that, I run a couple of oiled patches through it to protect it from rusting and you are done.
Barrel will be cleaner than from the factory every time.
I should add that I only clean my rifle after at least 20 rounds. But I never let it go more than 30 before I clean it.
Hope this helps. 👍
Way better than how we cleaned them i the army. Their way took forever and the armorer would keep sending you back till you cleaned all the bluing off of every part. 🤷🏼
@TheBeefSlayer yes of course, but what if it is a Wednesday?
For many out there I will cover a couple tidbits Brian didn't in this circumstance that are causing questions. One - the bore guide, or lack thereof. He is using a Tipton carbon fiber cleaning rod. It shouldn't hurt anything, wiped cleaned before each session back into the bore. Look them up, they embody many positives. Two - his paste here appears to be the bore bright and I guess the method is adopted for competition speeds. The JB cleaning paste (brown not grey) and Kroil method is easier on elbow grease but longer on time. Benchrest shooters for many years abide the two part process.
I use Bore Tech Eliminator with patch and nylon brush to start, then KG2 Bore polish (1400 grit) with patch and nylon brush. Finish with Thorroclean (patch and nylon brush) to remove the last bit of carbon. Using a borescope I have found that one product alone will never remove all of the copper AND carbon. Using these three products in this order will clean a barrel down to the steel if that's what you want. Bore Tech Eliminator is an awesome daily driver for patching after shooting, removes big chunks of everything and leaves a bit of copper and carbon behind.
Thanks for putting this video together. Very useful information. Keep em coming.
Frank Green is probably screaming at the top of his lungs, but I agree high performance rounds need a more aggressive cleaning approach. Good video.
Wasn't he against JB bore bright? And not bore paste?
Abrasives in general. Not even bronze brushes.
The guy just doesn't want to honor his warranty.
@@StuninRubno, he doesnt want to give any retard with a bronze brush and a drill a free barrel for being dumb hahaha....and yes I've see the primal rights video....
Bartleins shoot
I dont think Frank would be too concerned with how he's cleaning it....benchrest guys, maybe....because of no bore guide.
But as bryan states....the rifle hammers...
But frank was pretty specific about not using abrasives in conjunction with bronze brushes....
He didn't quite give a hard no answer on abrasives with patches or nylon brushes.....
But he is uncomfortable with people who don't know whats going on to go hog wild with them is what i gathered from all the interviews i have found with Frank.
Im in the middle.....i use abrasives yet im dreadful careful lol....i dont want my razor sharp crown getting rounded over hahaha...over polishing leading to the coppoer fouling issues ...or making my bore inconsistent diameter or bell mouthing the muzzle
Good tutorial, I prefer removing carbon & copper fouling first, then lap, precisely what I do with a brand new barrel prior to shooting aswell, results are favored for sure.
This was interesting. I have used bore paste for years but as my last operation on a barrel after having used solvents to get at the copper. I will give this a try. Thanks for posting it.
Thanks for the informative video. I book marked this video for the future. Thanks again, and Merry Christmas!
Any thoughts on Thoroclean? Mild abrasive and really easy to use. Generally have the barrel clean in 15 stokes.
I use Bore Tech Eliminator to start, then KG2 Bore polish (1400 grit) Finish with Thorroclean to remove the last bit of carbon. Using a borescope I have found that one product alone will never remove all of the copper AND carbon. Using these three products in this order will clean a barrel down to the steel if that's what you want. Bore Tech Eliminator is an awesome daily driver for patching after shooting, removes big chunks of everything and leaves a bit of copper and carbon behind.
Hell yeah! Get this channel going again!
A+ for Thoroclean/Thoroflush!
Completely gets rid of carbon!
Yes indeed , the last bit that nothing else will touch.
Thoroclean / thoroflush does not get rid of fire cracking high spots/ rough edges . You were not paying attention. It’s not just about removing carbon .
@@levigne25Getting rid of fire cracking high spots...hmm seems to work for me just fine. To each their own
I’m sure thorroclean is great on copper and carbon fouling but it cannot abrade metal like stainless steel like a lapping compound does . Thorroclean cannot remove raised edges of the parent metal .
@@levigne25 Learning something new is what it's all about. Have always been leery of aggressive abrasion in a barrel...I may have to step out
I appreciate the video Bryan
On one of my 22CM rifles that has a Proof, 1/7, 24” chambered by Virlee Gunworks. Shoots a .231” 7O Berger VLD.
I have always been a clean gun on low round count. I clean 30 rounds with a soak overnite with whipeout. Then Iossa Nylon brush w/Accelorator + whipeout.
I will use 95-97% alcohol flush with immediate dry patching. A slight carbon ring typically forms in a broken faded shape.
I then use Thorough Clean on a wet patch followed up with Nylon brush. I pay attention to the color of the brush and after 6-8 strokes, I flush the barrel with alcohol, dry patches, flush the brush and hit with air. I then repeat if necessary.
One satisfied with the barrel clean, flushed and dry patched. I then lubricate the bore with Tetra Bore Lube. Oil is fine.
Before shooting / hunting, I dry patch(s) the oil.
Currently have about 975-1000 rounds through the barrel and she is still shooting pretty decent, .336” group.
The barrel is expected to last about 1400-1800 rounds but time will tell and group size will have to be .50” or better.
This rifle is a coyote night rig.
Just wanted to pass this along and gather any comments from you and the group.
Thanks Bryan.
Big like! This was very informative. This will change how I clean my rifle. Thanks for sharing.
Use the same process. A Parker Hale type jag works a little better going back and forth with the JB paste.
After a good barrel break-in, however you like to do it, maintain accuracy. This means clean, confirm zero with up to 5-30 rounds, and maintain your zero. Keep it simple.
Good cleaning . Best advice is to use a bore guide especially if you use metal cleaning rods.
yes! please keep these videos coming!
Wow . Excellent information. That's for posting .
Great video Bryan. Its good to see an alternative to the common doctrine.
Thank you for this lesson Bryan!
Thanks for your video. Explained extremely well!
Thanks for the best book I own.
You and Rex helped me out big.
Thank you..
I've been waiting for this for so long 🙌
Does fire cracking happen only near the chamber because that’s where bullet go boom or is there something more to it?
Would you use Boretech Eliminator to remove the bore paste at the end?
If you use boretech’s abrasive, chameleon, yes. I use boretech products and they say to do that on their product. I’m very cautious of mixing different companies products. lol I don’t want a bad chemistry experiment in my bartlein
You could, but I don't think that's necessary. The bore paste comes out easily with anything that you wipe over it, even dry patches.
I use this method using VFD rifle cleaning system which pretty much guarantees a tight fit.
Difference in grit between Iosso bore paste and JB bore paste. Which one is more or less course?
JB is less aggressive, I use Flitz bore cleaner. Its in between iosso and jb as far as aggressiveness is concerned.
@79brumley that's what I wanted to know, I started using Iosso because, of course, Erik Cortina recommended it. But then I stopped because of several people saying it could be overused and cause irreparable damage real easily. I don't own a bore scope and I know I need one. This is why I am askinh.
Put a bit of iosso on a patch and rub it on a piece of steel and see how long it takes to make a pit where you are rubbing on that spot
Blue label JB borepaste or red label?
Blue
.. curious about this continuously .. any issues with micro-sanding" that bore?
What is that like for barrel life?
I ran a test with side-by-side 375 EnABELRs. We shot them on identical cycles with identical ammo. The only difference was, one rifle we never cleaned and the other rifle we cleaned with abrasive every 100 rounds. The rifle that we cleaned with abrasives lasted about 50% longer. Also, the rifle that was never cleaned, it was runing 100 fps faster compared to the rifle we maintained with abrasive cleaning.
This is all exaggerated for those large calibers that burn that much powder. But the same thing happens to a much lesser extent for smaller cartridges.
Great video. Well presented. Thank you.
Bryan do you run lock ease down the barrel after cleaning as suggested by Speedy Gonzales to get longer life before barrel is not shooting at acceptable competition accuracy? Thanks
If you clean down to bare metal, will you see similar velocities to when you started with a new barrel prior to speed up?
So some interesting food for thought regarding this process. I do a similar process, but I use Thorroclean. I came to this conclusion myself when I noticed I was chasing velocity increases. This process restored the consistency in my reloading/shooting. However, what I've noticed is after doing this, it takes about 10 or shot shots for the velocity to stabilize. I have a custom 6.5 prc with a load that shoots around 2880. After this process the exact same loads started out at 2830, and each shot continued to rise in velocity until it leveled off about 50fps higher than the first shot. After this the speed was level. Can you explain why this is happening? Is it the copper build up on a freshly cleaned bore?
Yes! That's exactly the behavior I see after a cleaning. It is very repeatable to the point you can anticipate it.
I would say what's happening is your smoothing the roughness when you clean it. For the first few shots post cleaning, the barrel is smooth and the shots are the slowest. As the barrel builds roughness, the pressure feeds back and velocity increases. After a while, the roughness in the barrel stabilizers for many shots. That's when you see your velocity plateau. Then, as you continue shooting, at some point the barrel increases in roughness, and that's when things start to go too high and you have to clean again.
when it rises 50 fps for you, is that over 10 shots or a lot of shots?
@@Teolulz Both. Here's a typical cycle... Rifle is running up to 2900 fps when dirty. Clean it per the video and the first shot will be like 2750. But then within the first 10 shots, the velocity will plateau around 2800-2850 fps. From there the velocity migration will be very gradual but creeping up until you need to set it back again. This is an exaggerated example (375 EnABELR) but a lesser version of this progression occurs with 6 Dashers too.
@@Teolulz The last time I did this, I was finishing off a lot of powder and just loading what I had left in the bottle. Once that was done, I was switching over to a new lot to test it. For this specific example, I had 28 shots total. I shot 3 foulers, then proceeded to shoot the remaining 25 shots in 5, 5 shot groups. All of these were charged using the Autotrickler so the powder charge was the same. Group 1- 2839. Group 2- 2863. Group 3- 2877. Group 4- 2895. Group 5-2907. So an average of 68fps gained over 28 shots all the exact same load. After this I switched over to my new lot and everything was stable with low ES/SD. Pretty strange...
@@xxshiftlockxxPowder will absorb moisture over time if your previous powder container was older or had been opened and closed numerous times of it's life that can definitely have an effect
What I do is plug one end of the barrel with a number 2 pencil, or one of the fat ones kindergarteners use, depending on caliber. Then I open an old lead acid car battery or two and use a turkey baster to fill the barrel with acid standing on end. I ground it by soldering a 4ga copper wire on the bare steel inside the end of the barrel attached to a 4’ solid copper rod driven into the ground exactly 3 1/2 feet deep. Then I leave it in the sun for exactly 13 days. I start adding 1/2 teaspoon of baking soda in through the breech every 4 hrs for 4 days. Then I solder shut the breech with fishing weights and a propane torch and then cool it with dry ice. Then 7 days later I cut the copper grounding wire. Flip the barrel muzzle end up… I take a ball peen hammer and drive the no 2 pencil into the muzzle till it’s flat all the way in. Then I take a metal rod the same caliber diameter as the bore and drive the pencil through the barrel while slowly heating the breech in a fire made of dogwood and rosewood. While driving the pencil through the bore, the lead plug from the fishing weights will heat up and give way under pressure. When the fire hits the acid mixture it will ignite and blow the pencil half way out of the barrel and then suck it back in all the way through the barrel and out the breech into the fire in an instant. But only if you have done it right. If it doesn’t then you have to start over again.
And then, after that, I run a couple of oiled patches through it to protect it from rusting and you are done.
Barrel will be cleaner than from the factory every time.
I should add that I only clean my rifle after at least 20 rounds. But I never let it go more than 30 before I clean it.
Hope this helps. 👍
Way better than how we cleaned them i the army. Their way took forever and the armorer would keep sending you back till you cleaned all the bluing off of every part. 🤷🏼
you look like a salesman for JB Weld with that amount of paste!!! LOL! I never knew to use that much. Great info. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
a good video same way i clean my barrels i use differant products but same thing
What I do is plug one end of the barrel with a number 2 pencil, or one of the fat ones kindergarteners use, depending on caliber. Then I open an old lead acid car battery or two and use a turkey baster to fill the barrel with acid standing on end. I ground it by soldering a 4ga copper wire on the bare steel inside the end of the barrel attached to a 4’ solid copper rod driven into the ground exactly 3 1/2 feet deep. Then I leave it in the sun for exactly 13 days. I start adding 1/2 teaspoon of baking soda in through the breech every 4 hrs for 4 days. Then I solder shut the breech with fishing weights and a propane torch and then cool it with dry ice. Then 7 days later I cut the copper grounding wire. Flip the barrel muzzle end up… I take a ball peen hammer and drive the no 2 pencil into the muzzle till it’s flat all the way in. Then I take a metal rod the same caliber diameter as the bore and drive the pencil through the barrel while slowly heating the breech in a fire made of dogwood and rosewood. While driving the pencil through the bore, the lead plug from the fishing weights will heat up and give way under pressure. When the fire hits the acid mixture it will ignite and blow the pencil half way out of the barrel and then suck it back in all the way through the barrel and out the breech into the fire in an instant. But only if you have done it right. If it doesn’t then you have to start over again.
And then, after that, I run a couple of oiled patches through it to protect it from rusting and you are done.
Barrel will be cleaner than from the factory every time.
I should add that I only clean my rifle after at least 20 rounds. But I never let it go more than 30 before I clean it.
Hope this helps. 👍
Way better than how we cleaned them i the army. Their way took forever and the armorer would keep sending you back till you cleaned all the bluing off of every part. 🤷🏼
I have only seen fire cracking in one of my barrels - 5.56 Ruger precision rifle with factory barrel which shot really accurately when it was new but declined. Maybe I haven't shot the other barrels enough.
Good stuff! Thanks for sharing. What parameters do you use to identify that a barrel is "broken in"? Some say an slight increase in velocity. I assume velocity levels unlike continued increase as you point out due to bullet drag.
I have trouble with leading or polymer (not sure if it is one or both) with polymer coated bullets (9mm) after shooting a handgun. I have a difficult time cleaning this out of the barrel. Lately I have shot about 3 copper jacketed bullets after shooting the polymer coated bullets and that cleans out the barrel for me.
How and the hell did that patch stay on?
My 6.5 grendel get not as fast firecracking, so i clean after every training from around 50 shots with boretec carbon cleaner and when i see copper with the copper cleaner, put the gun away with oil in the barrel, and before the shooting i make it dry, and around 200 shoots i use the jp pasta.
When you use that bore/chamber mop at around 12:43, why is it black?
What is on the mop?
Typical Engineer. Don't tip-toe around the issue. Use abrasive, remove abrasive, and do it more frequently as the barrel ages, the end. 😆
Back when he used to answer emails over a decade ago, he was no different. "This matters, this doesn't, the end, go practice reading wind."
Great video Bryan!
haha, thanks!
There's a lot of fluff out there for those who like it. I try to be respectful with your time.
@BryanLitzBallistics absolutely. I try to be the same way in my videos. Information dense, minimal fluff.
Great stuff.
The pics were from 2020, is this a repost of an earlier video?
For new barrels I do this alot in the very beginning for the first 200+ shots or so. Before I do this with JB paste though, I use the KG carbon remover and copper remover. After that I use the JB paste to do a slight smoothing of the bore because the KG stuff has already cleaned the barrel. Once I past 200+ shots I use the JB paste less, just to keep things maintained.
The pics were from last week, I just didn't set the date on the bore scope camera.
@@BryanLitzBallistics Ah, gotcha. That makes sense. Thanks for taking the time to square me away. :)
Great video! Will this take care of carbon ring buildup as well?
Hello Brian. Do you have any experience with the Garmin xcero when mounted on the weapon. What deviation is there? For example if it is mounted on a 10kg heavy 338LM? Thank you, greetings from Germany. Michael
Thank you for explaining the changes in cleaning window over the life of the barrel. My competition barrel’s window has been shrinking and I didn’t understand why. It should have half its life remaining but my rounds-before-cleaning window is half what it used to be. I can see now I have been underutilizing bore paste out of fear I would induce too much wear.
The only way I clean mine after 250 rounds a little more oil though and pre patches. Actually the only way I can clean it everything else barely works. Thank you for confirming what my findings were. I actually saw barrels get better at about 1100 rounds. Yes more cleaning but groups and sds came alive. Now my question is why do we break in barrels why not Jb a fresh barrel and go for it?
I wouldn’t be rough enough to get the proper pressure and velocity.
What I do is plug one end of the barrel with a number 2 pencil, or one of the fat ones kindergarteners use, depending on caliber. Then I open an old lead acid car battery or two and use a turkey baster to fill the barrel with acid standing on end. I ground it by soldering a 4ga copper wire on the bare steel inside the end of the barrel attached to a 4’ solid copper rod driven into the ground exactly 3 1/2 feet deep. Then I leave it in the sun for exactly 13 days. I start adding 1/2 teaspoon of baking soda in through the breech every 4 hrs for 4 days. Then I solder shut the breech with fishing weights and a propane torch and then cool it with dry ice. Then 7 days later I cut the copper grounding wire. Flip the barrel muzzle end up… I take a ball peen hammer and drive the no 2 pencil into the muzzle till it’s flat all the way in. Then I take a metal rod the same caliber diameter as the bore and drive the pencil through the barrel while slowly heating the breech in a fire made of dogwood and rosewood. While driving the pencil through the bore, the lead plug from the fishing weights will heat up and give way under pressure. When the fire hits the acid mixture it will ignite and blow the pencil half way out of the barrel and then suck it back in all the way through the barrel and out the breech into the fire in an instant. But only if you have done it right. If it doesn’t then you have to start over again.
And then, after that, I run a couple of oiled patches through it to protect it from rusting and you are done.
Barrel will be cleaner than from the factory every time.
I should add that I only clean my rifle after at least 20 rounds. But I never let it go more than 30 before I clean it.
Hope this helps. 👍
Way better than how we cleaned them i the army. Their way took forever and the armorer would keep sending you back till you cleaned all the bluing off of every part. 🤷🏼
5-7k rifle, why no bore guide? I have one for my MK22. Thanks for the vid
My thoughts too
The cost of the rifle is irrelevant. The cost of the barrel is what counts. He probably gets the barrels for free, but I agree with the notion that a bore guide is advisable. Heck, I have some old ones for the MRAD I sold years ago lying around somewhere.
What for? There is not an action below it to worry about keeping materials out of. The bore guide is just to keep the rest of the gun clean.
@@TheBeefSlayer Not very bright, are ya?
@@OFFICIALUND he’s just bored and has no life.
I use autosol mixed with oil, thin it until it's like whipping cream consistency, you will never use anything else again to clean a rifle barrel.
Awesome! Thanks! Why dont you use a bore guide?
Fantastic video brian steve uk
Don’t know if anybody would be interested in a couple of extra step that I do. I actually cut circular leather(cowhide) patches and instead of running the second patch with the JB paste I use the piece of cowhide with JB paste. Just cowhide, not a thick piece of leather. Then I clean everything but at the end of that, I just put some oil on a separate patch of cowhide and I worked the barrel back-and-forth again. I am a 22 shooter so I do not have to deal with copper. I only shoot lead and I do not have the fire cracking like the big guns but I’m telling you it gets unbelievably clean and polished.
Yeah that’s overkill on a 22 no need to clean it at all really
Would this also work on a new barrel to lap it in or is this just for cleaning a dirty bore. Thanx
This absolutely makes sense. I wonder if a Parker-Hale jag would work as well?
Yes it would
When I use abrasives I use them on Parker Hale style jags. Big reason is being able to control how tight they fit depending on how I roll them and with what size patch
Great video, as always. Are you not afraid you will go beyond clean and start taking the barrel material?
@BryanLitzBallistics, I love your content. I'm new to this and became a member of your site to learn, and it's been great! I'm curious about a few things. Why no bore guide? Also, It would have been interesting to see Velocities before and after cleaning. I've noticed my velocities climbing, and I will try this method with bore paste.
I use a bore guide in the rare occasion where I'm using solvents to clean a conventional rifle where it would leak down into / around/ thru the trigger / bedding, etc. With paste, with the MRAD... I don't see a reason to use a bore guide. I'm not runnin' that rod in there fast enough to damage anything. Besides, I've cleaned many MRAD barrels this way for their entire life and they hammer all the way. So I guess I don't do things that I don't see evidence or believe they're necessary.
Totally agree I should have shot velocities before and after! Having not done that, experience tells me to expect about a 50-75 fps set back on the first 1-3 shots, and it will settle out about 25-50 fps slower than where it left off dirty, and spend the next 100-200 rounds migrating back up.
Hopefully this method helps with the velocity migration you've seen in your rifles.
VFG felt pellets work wwwwaaayyy better with JB and similar stuff, than normal patches.
I tried those, thinking it would be a better way of doing the abrasive cleaning. The problem I had was; it was hard to get enough tension with them. Even when screwed on and swelled to the max. I went back to patches because I can make them tight enough in the bore to really scrub. I could get the same result with the felts, but it takes more cycles and time.
@BryanLitzBallistics that's really odd..... I've used the felts, both the copper reinforced and the regular white ones, on no less than 2 dozen different barrels over the past 6 years or so. ALL of them, including the shotguns, I got the felts so tight, I almost had to hammer the rod, and the strokes were definitely degenerating a lot of heat in the barrel. I usually do 25 to 50 passes, and up to 100(lol not every barrel I work with is custom match, some need extra lovin) and the felts hold up fine.
I use 3 pellets on the screw jag. Get them ready with paste. Push it a few inches into the bore. Grab the rod and twist to tighten the pellets. Rifling grabs the pellets, causing them to screw onto the jag tighter. Once I can't turn the rod anymore, it's time to go to town. Every 10-ish strokes, it's time to grab the rod and tighten again. Lands and grooves are clearly imprinted on the pellets. I legitimately work up a sweat and get fatigued doing the strokes, and the barrel is warm to the touch. 100% of all carbon and copper is removed, checked with bore scope.
It's odd that they don't work for you, but if the patches are good enough for you, those are cheaper, so that's good.
If you ever get interested in scatter gats, I've discovered some very interesting things, such as distinct and repeatable "nodes" that affect the patterns. I've got a professional background in science too for what that's worth lol.
Anyway keep up the good work.
As a metallurgist, it blows my mind that rifle makers and barrel manufacturers who specialize in high precision rifles have not addressed the root cause of barrel failure. "Fire cracking" is a problem that has been addressed in other industries, but for some reason the firearm industry just doesn't seem to want to actually fix the problem.
As a boilermaker and I remember metallurgy class. So in refineries and power generating stations the furnace tubes we install and weld are made out of inconel due to its higher melting point . Wouldn’t a inconel barrel prevent pre mature fire cracking ? Not saying it would eliminate it totally but something tells me it could take a lot more rounds before we see fire cracking .
What's the solution then ?
@ higher yield and ultimate tensile strengths, higher thermal conductivity, and higher fracture toughness. It would also take a manufacturer who isn't scared to put some money on the line, which is basically none of them.
@@the1andonlySherlock and a lot more corrosion resistant.
I think the issue is the difficulty of making barrels to the precision required, so the main steel characteristic being selected for is machinability. You will know that there are many military barrels with chrome lined bores which increases their life and reduces fire cracking and throat erosion substantially. You don't see chrome bores in any precision rifles as it tends to lower accuracy.
The push toward higher performance cartridges with high round count use cases in recent years may spur some development on this front, but somehow I doubt it.
Good vid mate, subbed, cheers Yogi ✌️🇦🇺
Good stuff, Thank you
Thanks Bryan.
Is he using a bore guide ?
Thanks Bryan !!
I watched this a few days ago, but I'm still wigging out about your using bore paste to clean a barrel. I'm assuming that you suggest it, despite it wearing out barrels fast, because you'll get more consistent results until you wear it out? What I mean is, using bore paste, maybe a 3k round barrel will only last 2k rounds, but those 2k rounds will be more consistent and accurate than the first 2k rounds of a barrel cleaned more gently? Or am I missing something. It is like Moses coming down the mountain and telling the Israelites to eat baby back ribs...
No Bore Guide??
Mr. Litz, does this cleaning method result in the distance to the lands moving back prematurely? I have a Tikka CTR (in 6.5 Creedmoor) which I used this cleaning method on and the distance to the lands moved back by about 0.1" (100/1,000ths) in about 2,500-3,000 rounds. Maybe it's normal wear for 6.5. I'm not sure. The thing still shoots < 3/4 MOA (on average) for 5-shot groups but she used to shoot < 1/2 MOA.
Not sure what it's like for the 6.5, but in my 308, every 100 firings seems to erode the barrel throat back 0.002" or 0.003"
Over 1000 rounds, that is 20 thou .. those add up.
@@joesquid6988 Thanks for the info! Yeah, the throat of my barrel eroded by 100 thou in 3,000 rounds. That ~0.0033" per 100 rounds. I guess it's not that different than the higher end of what you are seeing.
Which JB product did you use? There are two different ones.
I use the grey paste, blue label. Not the red.
Thank you.
Ill have to try the half patch trick. I didnt think a patch would stay on a jag in a reverse stroke.
It will if it fits right
So mild abrasive on cottons wearing down gun barrel stainless eh? Not seeing it...
@@robertosborne1753 you're right, it doesn't wear down the barrel steel. It does remove roughness and fouling.
@BryanLitzBallistics And the roughness isn't the same material/hardness as the gun barrel stainless?
After doing this method how many rounds does it take for the barrel to stabilize for matches?
applied the same method on my AT-x 6.5cr before im seeing this video, it took me generally 20+ rounds to stable it
My only question is, how do I keep the patch on the jag for so many strokes 😂 like, he is obviously doing it somehow, but I can’t see myself doing it this way
Simply by not letring the rod fo out of the muzzle end ,where the patch will.fall off if you try to pull it back in
@ Will it do ok in the chamber?
What I can't figure out a jag and patch will not stay on ,pushing it and pulling, as soon as you pull it back it would fall right ,So what you would use is a bore brush with a patch around it .makes more sense .
If the patch fits correctly on the jag it will stay on there. You don’t just stuff the patch in there and push it through…. It has to drape over the sides of the jagg and fit right. The bristles on a brush will poke through and not press the patch against the bore properly. 🤷🏼
If it’s not staying on… use a bigger jag or more patches.
Interesting. I first did this not knowing what I’m doing, on my tikka stainless 308 after 700rnds.
I used those quality VFG felts for good contour fit, first with jb bore paste (grey) and stroked back and forth in 4-6” strokes about 10-20times and progressively creeping about 1-2” from breach to muzzle finishing with full length strokes. I’d say hundreds of strokes all up.
Repeated with jb bore brite (red, finer grit). And it turned into a mirror. I’m still sub moa with factory loads.
I did same thing to my Brno Mod.2 in 22LR because it’s old and rusty and I found I was about 100fps below box velocity from 23-24” barrel and my friend got 100fps above box velocity from same box of ammo in his 16” CZ452 and he never cleaned with JB. So maybe this fits with first 5mins theory of this video.
I found cleaning the residues took many patches, like 30+ and I had to use oil patches as well. Alternating dry-wet-dry and I remember it took a lot to get back to clean patches. I was a little concerned then, but watching all these other videos and stories makes me feel at ease in getting all the residue out.
Ive seen “speedy” (benchrest shooter) in other videos finishes cleaning with graphite dry lube to “fill in and protect” the fire cracking as something extra.
Might pay to use bore mop in chamber a few times to prevent any false positives from cleaning jb paste residue.
Thanks for sharing your experience. I haven't heard of 'speedys' method of using graphite after a cleaning, but that makes sense to me so I think I'll try it!
Hey bryan. Brilliant explanation.
Just a question for you. How does the patch not come off the jag in barrel when pulling the stick on the back strokes.
I wondered the same,
Bryan, I follow my cleaning with a couple patches with Lock Ease graphite, seems like I don't need a fouling shot. What say you?
Someone else mentioned that and I think it sounds like a great idea! I'll give it a try.
@BryanLitzBallistics let me know what you think, got this from Speedy!
Hey Brian. What things will we be seeing in the log awaited app update?
You'll see soon, it's pushing this week⚡
have you ever heard of treating the bore with cerakote??
Well, I did say if anybody was interested. I just thought it would be helpful to you all to help you smooth out your barrels
What is your barrel life expectancy?
@BryanLitzBallistics what jag is that?
Extremely helpful and I instantly subscribed. Thank you. I have been a big fan of Kroil and JB Bore Paste for a long time. I was happy to learn that I was not "over cleaning" my barrels since I do this about every 100 rounds. But of course I always clean with solvent after every range session also. I was brought up to "keep your cars and guns clean" by my father USMC. I was surprised how little oil you used to prep the barrel, and then remove the JB afterwards. I was thinking to get some JB Bore Bright (the polish) or similar polish also. Thoughts? Lastly, do you put any light oil through the bore afterwards?
Interesting, I'll definitely be trying this on my bolt boys. Out of curiosity do you think AR pattern rifles(with CHF barrels) could benefit from this?
I'm very cautious of using abrasives with gas guns because I DO NOT KNOW the effects of the abrasive getting into and through the gas system. I'm actually pretty nervous about that but don't know if or how much it could damage it.
@BryanLitzBallistics Very good point. Well in the name of Bill Nye the science guys, there's only one way to find out lol