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Most the cars that have shuddering when braking have got worn control arm bushes. The front wheels go berserk like a shopping trolley wheel and you feel this at the steering wheel.
When replacing your rotors, remember, new rotors can be warped and uneven right out of the box!! This can cause "surging" when you press the brake peddle, even at very low speed you'll feel the car jerking. So it's a smart practice to consider turning rotors, even when they're new, before installing them.
@Charles H Geis IV If your rotors are so screwed up and warped that your steering wheel is vibrating...its unlikely having them turned will fix the problem. Mine were doing this last year and no shop around here would even do it. Just replaced them and the pads🤷♂️
Agreed that turning them will smooth out the braking issue. BUT, turning rotors removes material, and the reduced mass will allow them to get hotter more quickly, which could result in the same runout or warpage even more quickly than before. But yes, if you can get them turned properly for ten bucks a piece, by all means do that, but I didn’t know it was that cheap.
I have found that tire shops that rotate your tires are over torquing the lug nuts which causes rotor warpage. I had this happen numerous times and when I make sure they torque to vehicle specs and in star pattern I do not have that issue. I recommend replacing rotors instead of turning them. It’s cheaper that way.
Only problem is a lot of places don't wanna turn rotors anymore... They'd rather just sell you new ones... Prices are like 15-25$ to turn and like 20-50$ for new so there not too much of a difference...... Some might say new rotors could be wrapped but it's also true that some newbie could botch up the turning especially if you take it to a chain store where they got some part-timer on the lathe...... Also if your rotor are 5- 10 years just get new ones...
Rotors for my car are 80 for the front and 60 for the rear. That’s the cheapest I’ve seen. So when it comes to spending $100 at most to turn vs $380 to replace, that’s a big difference lol
But is it worth your life on each amount? Think about going 70 mph and needing to stop on a dime with the unsettling shaking. Chances are you are going to be paying hundreds more if you get into an accident.
Saved lot of money just by doing exactly what you show and said.just buy new pads and fixed the rotors.the rotors surface was un even and pads were old.thanx
You need to separate caliper from the carrier in order to lubricate the sliding pins, so the brake force can be even on both sides of disc. If sliders are jammed, it could be the cause of vibration. Judging by the condition of disc and torex bolt, it seems that someone did a poor brake service recently. I would not be surprised if vibrations return after a while. Best regards.
you need to sand the brake pads too to make it flat and even, because it will put uneven pressure on the rotors and you will need to do this job again soon, if the brake pads are under the half it's better to put new pads oem or greater. I use caborator cleaner to unstuck the rotors from the hub. thank you for the video and keep on upload more videos 👍
If you want to keep the car for long time, you should replace the rotors and brake pads with brand new one. It’s the best to do it and for safety reasons.
One other thing that can cause the shaking of the steering wheel, is the brake show pins being bad. One I had was that the top pin was not cleaned/greased when it was out for a brake AND rotor replacement. The top pin moved ever so slightly but would not come out. So, a year later, it was frozen. All I had to do was remove the pin (hard, but it came out) and cleaned the pin and bore with brake parts cleaner and then I greased it. Tested smooth as a baby bottom, and no more shaking.
hey guys thanks for the video . my corolla 2015 sport really vibrated when I break. so what i needs to be done is to sand pepper the Rotor to give it a newer surface?
My steering wheel does not shake, but car stutters when braking from lower speeds, also starts to go little right when letting go the steering wheel, any ideas?
I have a vibration on steering wheel, only when brakes are hot, like going down a mountain pass, even at lower speeds like 60 km/ hour. Should i also go through the same process or can it be something else?
The brake rotor is damaged by heat caused the rotor wobble. It is not worth to fix it. Go to ebay get a set of new rotors with ceramic brake pads. The new rotor has a ventilation hole and slots can run cooler. The ceramic pads are much cooler and better stop distance.
Is the guy who do the work on the video from Bulgaria? He got a traditional bracelet that bulgarians wear in the spring (starting March 1st) ... Its called Marteniza. Is that what is it? Great video bw 👍
hi I got BMW E39 I had a problem with the shaking sterling Queen I replace the rotors and the wheel hubs I checked all the bushes bushes I done the alignment and still a shaken can you help me what is the problem it's shaking I'm turning left without touching the brake pedal
Wheel Alignment does not correct shaking,vibration,squealing or anything else, unless it was not done correctly previously,a little tire wear issue may be corrected but without replacing the worn parts that cause all vehicle issues, your wasting your money on alignment, expecting it to somehow fix a mechanical wear issues or bent parts
Changed break pads and rotors and my Mazda steering wheel still shakes like crazy when I slow down from 60 to like 40 then from 40 down slowing down it doesn’t shake idk what else to do 😅
Hi, I have a 2011 Volkswagen Jetta 1.8T. And my problem is that the steering wheel vibrates (not the brake pedal) only when I apply medium pressure to the brakes at 50-60 km/h. At high speeds and lower speeds it doesn't do it. This problem began when I changed all rotors, brake pads and rotated the wheels (both of the rears to the front keeping each one on the same side of the car as the owners manual says). I wirebrushed both front hubs so the rotor sits flush, inspected rotors and pads, brake caliper doesn't stick. Also checked both steering end rod and links.
your rotors are not warped. they never are. the vibration is caused by uneven distribution of brake pad material on the rotor. you just need to bed the pads correctly when they are new.
Sheneitra Howard vibration under braking and just being due for new brakes are separate issues. if you are due for new brakes then the proper way to do it is to get new pads and rotors at the same time. whether you resurfaced or replace the rotors just be sure to bed the pads correctly.
NOT true..... chuck those rotors up and see if they run TRUE.. guarantee you will have some RUN -OUT in them.. very common these days.. brake rotors are smaller overall to save weight, too much heat build up causes warp-age easily depending how aggressive people drive braking wise ... and the thinner they get from machining the MORE they will warp because they can't release the heat... I have machined HUNDREDS of rotors over the years and YES they have run-out
rotors do not warp due to heat. no normal person will ever get steel rotors hot enough to warp. i have been tracking my cars for the last ten years on steel rotors. repeated braking from 100+ miles per hour all day around the track creating extremely hot brakes... and not one warped rotor. the run out variance is due to the rotor not being perfectly flush with the hub. the other most common issue that causes vibration is an uneven distribution of brake pad material on the rotor.
The normal person, who does not know how to remove parts from his/her own car, is probably going to have to pay a fortune to get new ones. But honestly, whether you take the cheaper way out of getting them shaved or you get new ones; your life is worth it. I had this happen to me yesterday on a 2 hour trip each way and I was hesitant to even use the brake and THAT is not a good sign.
Wouldn't let that Cowboy anywhere near my car... Using a screwdriver and hammer? Change the Discs / Rotors and the Pads at the same time, you can't get the Discs / Rotors skimmed and then put the old pads back on?
Just as easy to buy new rotors. Why go through all that when getting new ones is much simpler. Unless you have to machine to do it. It is not worth it in the long run.
I feel it randomly like it drives completely smooth then steering wheel shakes like crazy even when I’m not braking. This happened after changing front and rear brakes
Hello Mr. Jaswinder. The steering wheel on my car shakes when I apply brakes above 120kmph, it works well in normal speed. I had replaced all my tyres last month, so I thought it could be due to the the imbalance of the new tyres. But even after the balancing was done last week, it still vibrates. I am not really sure what's causing the problem. The mechanic told me that if it's the warped rotors, then the shake will happen at low speed as well. So, I don't know where to start. Can you please tell me what are the other things I should check? Or maybe one or more tyres are defective? It's a Chevy optra magnum which has done 98K Kms on the odo. Thank you for your help!
How about checking wear in front suspension bushes or seized front brake callipers. The disc’s are blue proving that you’ve either got seized brake pads or a sticking brake calliper. I would call you very un professional and you’ve also got a leaking front shock absorber. I wouldn’t employ you. You talk a load of rubbish as other faults can or cause damage to brake disc’s.
Rotors do not get hot enough to warp That is just a misused term that does not apply to vehicle brakes All Brake issues are from neglect Failure to do anything but drive or failure to perform brake work correctly & often enough
Yes I have a 04 Chevy Malibu and the front end shakes when Im going over 45mh and step on my brakes I changed the Rotors and the problem came back the next day what else can it be if anyone can help hope to hear from someone soon thank you.. Roman.
I changed the wheels, fixed the wheels bearings and changed the idle arm. every time I do something the shaking was reduced, now I'm sure that the rotors are bad because when I apply the breaks its shacks. are there anything else causing the car shaking? And now (another thing could be related) I began to feel vibration with noise in the steering when I turn left or right slowly. what could that be?
1st of all you should wear glasses and gloves then start the job with the clean place then you should check the pin Caliber and grees it and you have to have a special tools that's not professional and you have to do some other extra staff to make your video work good and And what about the pad you cant put old pad with out Cleaning See you next video
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How they charge you for rectify de rotors? And where
Most the cars that have shuddering when braking have got worn control arm bushes. The front wheels go berserk like a shopping trolley wheel and you feel this at the steering wheel.
I agree I have the same issue bushing definitely looks shot
This is my exact problem. You just saved me the cost of a suspension check. Thank you!
Thanks for the advice man!I had to replace my rotors and my truck feels excellent now when I brake.No more shaking!Nice video!Thanks!
When replacing your rotors, remember, new rotors can be warped and uneven right out of the box!! This can cause "surging" when you press the brake peddle, even at very low speed you'll feel the car jerking. So it's a smart practice to consider turning rotors, even when they're new, before installing them.
What does turning rotors mean ?
@@banaweekidane2630 th-cam.com/video/kWoEqfMWzzU/w-d-xo.html
@@banaweekidane2630turning rotors means machine rotors flat. You don’t need to turn brand new rotors, they were already turned because there new.
To do this the right way, get new rotors new pads, brake pad lubricant, clean and lubricate all slides and brake pad guides..... Done!!!!
@Charles H Geis IV If your rotors are so screwed up and warped that your steering wheel is vibrating...its unlikely having them turned will fix the problem. Mine were doing this last year and no shop around here would even do it. Just replaced them and the pads🤷♂️
Agreed that turning them will smooth out the braking issue. BUT, turning rotors removes material, and the reduced mass will allow them to get hotter more quickly, which could result in the same runout or warpage even more quickly than before. But yes, if you can get them turned properly for ten bucks a piece, by all means do that, but I didn’t know it was that cheap.
I have found that tire shops that rotate your tires are over torquing the lug nuts which causes rotor warpage. I had this happen numerous times and when I make sure they torque to vehicle specs and in star pattern I do not have that issue. I recommend replacing rotors instead of turning them. It’s cheaper that way.
What about tbe other side brake assembly. How did you come to know which side brake needs attention/levelling.
Only problem is a lot of places don't wanna turn rotors anymore... They'd rather just sell you new ones... Prices are like 15-25$ to turn and like 20-50$ for new so there not too much of a difference...... Some might say new rotors could be wrapped but it's also true that some newbie could botch up the turning especially if you take it to a chain store where they got some part-timer on the lathe......
Also if your rotor are 5- 10 years just get new ones...
Rotors for my car are 80 for the front and 60 for the rear. That’s the cheapest I’ve seen. So when it comes to spending $100 at most to turn vs $380 to replace, that’s a big difference lol
But is it worth your life on each amount? Think about going 70 mph and needing to stop on a dime with the unsettling shaking. Chances are you are going to be paying hundreds more if you get into an accident.
You also use a c-clamp to compress the caliper. put old back pad on caliper surface, and use c-clamp to compress piston back.
rust and dirt getting between rotor and hub will cause vibrations, when installing new rotors make sure to clean that area :)
I just got new Rotors and brake pads and it solved the problem. Car has 150K miles.
Thank you for posting,
Heading out to check my car now. Saved me time and money! : )
Saved lot of money just by doing exactly what you show and said.just buy new pads and fixed the rotors.the rotors surface was un even and pads were old.thanx
You need to separate caliper from the carrier in order to lubricate the sliding pins, so the brake force can be even on both sides of disc.
If sliders are jammed, it could be the cause of vibration.
Judging by the condition of disc and torex bolt, it seems that someone did a poor brake service recently.
I would not be surprised if vibrations return after a while.
Best regards.
you need to sand the brake pads too to make it flat and even, because it will put uneven pressure on the rotors and you will need to do this job again soon, if the brake pads are under the half it's better to put new pads oem or greater.
I use caborator cleaner to unstuck the rotors from the hub.
thank you for the video and keep on upload more videos 👍
Great advice. Thanks for sharing!
thesniperofcs what number # of sandpaper for this job ?
Good video, but it should say, just buy a new disc rotor
Did you have to change all four out or just the front??
If you want to keep the car for long time, you should replace the rotors and brake pads with brand new one. It’s the best to do it and for safety reasons.
Hey. How do you know witch exactly wheel is "damaged" and have to be repaired? Maybe its all four :D
How will you which sidebis the one making the steering wheel vibrate?
One other thing that can cause the shaking of the steering wheel, is the brake show pins being bad. One I had was that the top pin was not cleaned/greased when it was out for a brake AND rotor replacement. The top pin moved ever so slightly but would not come out. So, a year later, it was frozen. All I had to do was remove the pin (hard, but it came out) and cleaned the pin and bore with brake parts cleaner and then I greased it. Tested smooth as a baby bottom, and no more shaking.
How do you work out which wheel has the uneven disc?
hey guys thanks for the video . my corolla 2015 sport really vibrated when I break. so what i needs to be done is to sand pepper the Rotor to give it a newer surface?
You can try that, but Corolla rotors are dirt cheap
You guys are gangsters.
Your shock absorber is LEAKING ... Vibe can come from it too
When you turn a rotor it thins out the material and the heat makes it more likely to warp. Just replace the rotors and pads.
I have the same on my R36
When you go fast and hit the brakes it starts to vibrate.
Maybe cheap disks?
My steering wheel does not shake, but car stutters when braking from lower speeds, also starts to go little right when letting go the steering wheel, any ideas?
Turn the volume off and try to guess what this guy is talking about at 0:47 sec. lol
lol
I didnt know this video was about hand jobs lol
loooooooool OMG! hahahaha
lmaooo
Hahahahaha
Can my front rotors be warped and my rear rotors be fine?
good info homie thanks
thanks man my dad's car is shaking when I brake I'll try this
I have a vibration on steering wheel, only when brakes are hot, like going down a mountain pass, even at lower speeds like 60 km/ hour. Should i also go through the same process or can it be something else?
The brake rotor is damaged by heat caused the rotor wobble. It is not worth to fix it. Go to ebay get a set of new rotors with ceramic brake pads. The new rotor has a ventilation hole and slots can run cooler. The ceramic pads are much cooler and better stop distance.
Thank you. Very helpful. You are a good guy.
Is the guy who do the work on the video from Bulgaria? He got a traditional bracelet that bulgarians wear in the spring (starting March 1st) ... Its called Marteniza. Is that what is it? Great video bw 👍
How many time you can cut it , my friend told me that I can't cut it more than one ,,, please help cause it's our family car !
Haha its Frenchy from Talladeganights lol 😂😂
In this video, the recommendation is to have your brake rotors turned (milled flat).
You guys make helpful videos
could be the rotors, wheel bearing, steering rod, sway bar links, brake pads, control arms, bent rims or uneven tyres
I have 2004 camery i got the same problem would say that i buy new spare parts better cuz my car is old old ?..!!!
ok let me tell you dude you are amazing thanks a lot for all your tutorial aweesome!!!!!
This guy has a great accent, he should be on the TV.
Nice job dude ,thumbs up
"Don"t Hit The Rotor".. So he knocks it off from behind on the rotor with a hammer !!!!! ?????
hi I got BMW E39 I had a problem with the shaking sterling Queen I replace the rotors and the wheel hubs I checked all the bushes bushes I done the alignment and still a shaken can you help me what is the problem it's shaking I'm turning left without touching the brake pedal
Wheel Alignment does not correct shaking,vibration,squealing or anything else,
unless it was not done correctly previously,a little tire wear issue may be corrected
but without replacing the worn parts that cause all vehicle issues, your wasting your money
on alignment, expecting it to somehow fix a mechanical wear issues or bent parts
A glossy finish does not cause brake pads to vibrate. Research these key terms: "Disc thickness variation" (DTV) and "lateral run-out."
A very high grade ( thin) sandpaper is what i used by applying a rotary type motion when sanding. Also ,,, i do this on my brake pads.
Great video.
Changed break pads and rotors and my Mazda steering wheel still shakes like crazy when I slow down from 60 to like 40 then from 40 down slowing down it doesn’t shake idk what else to do 😅
Hi, I have a 2011 Volkswagen Jetta 1.8T. And my problem is that the steering wheel vibrates (not the brake pedal) only when I apply medium pressure to the brakes at 50-60 km/h. At high speeds and lower speeds it doesn't do it. This problem began when I changed all rotors, brake pads and rotated the wheels (both of the rears to the front keeping each one on the same side of the car as the owners manual says). I wirebrushed both front hubs so the rotor sits flush, inspected rotors and pads, brake caliper doesn't stick. Also checked both steering end rod and links.
Did you figure out what was the problem, same thing happening to my honda civic?
The same problem happen with de rear discs???? Or only front ????
Are you guys located in Berwyn Il? The area looks familiar.
Front end drivers side feels like steering wheel vibrating feels like like wheel gonna fall off
your rotors are not warped. they never are. the vibration is caused by uneven distribution of brake pad material on the rotor. you just need to bed the pads correctly when they are new.
I was thinking that I needed rear brakes but today my wheel started vibrating. I don't need rotors too?
Sheneitra Howard vibration under braking and just being due for new brakes are separate issues. if you are due for new brakes then the proper way to do it is to get new pads and rotors at the same time. whether you resurfaced or replace the rotors just be sure to bed the pads correctly.
@@zacharyparis ok thanks Zachary I'll replace both.
NOT true..... chuck those rotors up and see if they run TRUE.. guarantee you will have some RUN -OUT in them.. very common these days.. brake rotors are smaller overall to save weight, too much heat build up causes warp-age easily depending how aggressive people drive braking wise ... and the thinner they get from machining the MORE they will warp because they can't release the heat... I have machined HUNDREDS of rotors over the years and YES they have run-out
rotors do not warp due to heat. no normal person will ever get steel rotors hot enough to warp. i have been tracking my cars for the last ten years on steel rotors. repeated braking from 100+ miles per hour all day around the track creating extremely hot brakes... and not one warped rotor. the run out variance is due to the rotor not being perfectly flush with the hub. the other most common issue that causes vibration is an uneven distribution of brake pad material on the rotor.
The shaking i feel coming from the rear regardless of braking speed. Any ideas?
When brakes become warped due to heat they expand Causing the warping going around the car but the most being around where the cause of the issue is
Excelent video. Congrats
Thanks guys love the VIDEO
What brand is that impact wrench? Where did you buy it?
When robo voice over is better lol good vid dude
You took the rotor to the car parts store to do what? You said it costs $10, so what tool?
To get it shaved down.
Wait!!! Where did you take the rotors to get shaved down?? How much was the job? I thought you had to buy new rotors.
The normal person, who does not know how to remove parts from his/her own car, is probably going to have to pay a fortune to get new ones. But honestly, whether you take the cheaper way out of getting them shaved or you get new ones; your life is worth it. I had this happen to me yesterday on a 2 hour trip each way and I was hesitant to even use the brake and THAT is not a good sign.
Wouldn't let that Cowboy anywhere near my car... Using a screwdriver and hammer? Change the Discs / Rotors and the Pads at the same time, you can't get the Discs / Rotors skimmed and then put the old pads back on?
Thanks ! That makes sense ..
the entire cab of my truck SHAKES bad think it could be the same thing?
Just as easy to buy new rotors. Why go through all that when getting new ones is much simpler. Unless you have to machine to do it. It is not worth it in the long run.
Why replace any part. Get a new car lol 😊
Justyna sz. Dumbest reply I've heard on the entire thread 😉
rmcmillan469 Thanks 😋
Some people just have money to burn. I have rotors turned at a local shop for $25 per pair. New ones are $40 each. Do the math.
Some of the brand new rotors you can buy are so poorly made that they will do this almost immediately after installing them.
That Lil impact looks like it fits in tuff spots
But how do you know which one of the four rotor cause the problem
What if it rear shakes around 35 mph after you put new pads on. And I smell burning and my right wheel is hot and I smell burning
Thank you!
Basically just remove rotors and have them resurfaced
resurfacing $10??? Where are you guys?
In Pittsburgh resurfacing is $40 for each rotor. Better to buy new one. So lucky you!
Max Kayumov
Your getting ripped off
Oreillys 10.00 all day...move to a better state...lol
Yangi disk qo'ygan yaxshi baribir
I feel it randomly like it drives completely smooth then steering wheel shakes like crazy even when I’m not braking. This happened after changing front and rear brakes
From my experience, the rotor will be the culprit if you are stopping. If it does this even when not braking, it could be the brake caliper.
How can you tell which rotor is messed up? My car is vibrating on brake but how do I tell which one is busted?
Anthony Sanchez You have to measure them and there are some tools out there that are made specifically for this if you Google around
Brake discs aren't done grinding ! You must purchase new ones
Never mind that blown out strut!
Where do you take the rotors to be cleaned?
What else could cause shaking while braking? I replaced rotors, pads, tie rods, ball joints, etc, car still shakes.....help
Tires or wheel bearing
Bring it to a warmer country. I shake when its cold out.
You look like David de Gea
Thank you. Guys, Good. Job,
Where. Can. I. Get. No. Airgun. Like that. You. Were Use it. Thank you. Guys,
hahhah he look familia
Nice work
I can no longer find anywhere in NYC, where they turn rotors. Used to be a common type of repair.
Carlyle Tom
Jerome ave in the Bronx any shop along the strip
How do I know which wheel to do this too
Steering shake coyld be due to many other reasons..tyre imbalance, worn bushes, work column
Hello Mr. Jaswinder. The steering wheel on my car shakes when I apply brakes above 120kmph, it works well in normal speed. I had replaced all my tyres last month, so I thought it could be due to the the imbalance of the new tyres. But even after the balancing was done last week, it still vibrates. I am not really sure what's causing the problem. The mechanic told me that if it's the warped rotors, then the shake will happen at low speed as well. So, I don't know where to start. Can you please tell me what are the other things I should check? Or maybe one or more tyres are defective? It's a Chevy optra magnum which has done 98K Kms on the odo. Thank you for your help!
Is he speaking English?
He speaks better English than many people whose 1st language is English
How about checking wear in front suspension bushes or seized front brake callipers. The disc’s are blue proving that you’ve either got seized brake pads or a sticking brake calliper. I would call you very un professional and you’ve also got a leaking front shock absorber. I wouldn’t employ you. You talk a load of rubbish as other faults can or cause damage to brake disc’s.
Sticky Caliper is first point as 99% is the caliper not the Discs
hey guys
I need to have my rotors checked I think I've Warpped them lol
Rotors do not get hot enough to warp
That is just a misused term that does not apply to vehicle brakes
All Brake issues are from neglect
Failure to do anything but drive or failure to perform brake work correctly & often enough
Yes I have a 04 Chevy Malibu and the front end shakes when Im going over 45mh and step on my brakes I changed the Rotors and the problem came back the next day what else can it be if anyone can help hope to hear from someone soon thank you.. Roman.
Albert Roman grease your pins to make sure you calipers are sliding smoothly.
My cars shakes regardless. Maybe i drive to fast and i scare my car😂😂😂😂😂
t_from_da_LB Galarga lmfaoo I’m dead 😂
Haaaaaaaaaaa 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
You spend $10 to have it turned. It cost $20 to buy a brand new one.
On my car front rotors 90$ each...10$ each to spin em. I usually only spin em once though before i replace em
Brakes were fine... changed pads, now they shake... no way the rotor is warped... now what?
saca el arte el chavo con hiervita
This is a bad warped rotor, it should be replaced without a doubt
Mine were so bad it shook the steering wheel at highway speeds without applying brakes.
Does bad rotors shakes the car without applying the breaks (while driving)?
you might noticed some pulsation in the steering wheel but not too much. Check your wheels too
I changed the wheels, fixed the wheels bearings and changed the idle arm. every time I do something the shaking was reduced, now I'm sure that the rotors are bad because when I apply the breaks its shacks.
are there anything else causing the car shaking?
And now (another thing could be related) I began to feel vibration with noise in the steering when I turn left or right slowly. what could that be?
laith114
Tires
laith114 might need to balance your tires
I like his accent
1st of all you should wear glasses and gloves then start the job with the clean place then you should check the pin Caliber and grees it and you have to have a special tools that's not professional and you have to do some other extra staff to make your video work good and And what about the pad you cant put old pad with out Cleaning See you next video
What store is doing it for 10$??
So we can't do it ourselves, we have to take it to a parts store
$10 bucks for resurface? I don't get it. The new rotor costs about $20 bucks.
My mercedes rotors cost around ten times that $20 buck price you stated. Guess it depends on the make of the vehicle.