I'm only 15 and your videos are helping me with my bow hunting skills and what is necessary for my bow. I basically have the same hunting setup as up. Thanks Chris
Thanks for the info Chris, would love to see you shoot your bow in a long range situation with and without your stabilizer to see the difference in grouping.
I’ve watched countless videos on stabilisation and no one has ever explained the advantage of adding bias to the bow in a way that makes perfect sense. I’ve tried it for myself now and it’s a game changer. Thanks Chris.
With my V3, the bow without any stabilizers, front and back, is already well balanced. It is possible to hunt without stabilizers period and the effect on the shot without stabilizers is negligible in hunting situations. As a result, I simply shoot with a single rubber stabilizer "stacker" ball and really, that is only to hold my wrist strap on. I have hunted with a simple small bolt in the stabilizer bar hole once again to simply hold my wrist strap on the bow. Lugging around in the woods all that extra weight is pointless IMO. And lengthy stabilizers whether out the front or back has more potential to hurt you in the tree, whether in the saddle or stand than to help when you are making the shot. Thanks for sharing the tech info Chris. Very interesting and I learned some stuff today.
The point of stabilizers is not to balance the bow. The point is to increase the bows moment of inertia, essentially this makes it harder to move the bow. More force is required to move the bow 2 degrees with stabilizers than without. A good bow is balanced from the factory or close to it. However, they are compact, and their moment of inertia is very small. Stabilizers can help in wind or if you are shaky because the same force will move your aiming point less. Like Chris said. do what feels best, but that is how it works
I sat in Blair Sandberg’s kitchen back in the spring of 2007 and he gave me a physics lesson on rotational torque and why designed the original b-stinger the way he did. It’s awesome to see that he innovatived the stabilizer and archery world and we are doing everything differently.
The point of a stabilizer is to compensate for the geometry issues created by the bow. In a perfect archery system, the archers hands would be in the centre of the bow, both at the nock and at the grip, creating a symmetrical spring with which to launch the arrow. Unfortunately this means that the arrow is going to have to go through the archer's hand. To avoid this, the grip is moved below the arrow, but this creates a point of pressure below the centreline of the bow which causes the bow to kick upwards on release. The stabilizer is there to counteract this kick and ensure that the arrow leaves cleanly without an upward kick affecting the flight of the arrow. Having a stabilizer sticking out the front of the bow creates a front-back imbalance, so having a rear stabilizer helps to correct this imbalance while enhancing the resistance of the bow to the upward kick.
I have started looking more into stabilizers as I just got my first ever deer at 32 with my uncle's 30 year old bow he gave me long ago, and decided to get a flagship bow (Bowtech SR350) as I'd finally done his bow justice and gotten a harvest with it. I'm not sure how I feel about it all yet. I was able to pull off a Robinhood at 25 yards within my first month of practicing with his bow again (PSE Edge 1000C, it had been years since I'd shot it and I started working on my form to get back into archery), and the only stabilizer I had on it was a Trophy Ridge 8" dampener more or less. It was definitely much less forgiving, but it forced me into proper form for results. I'm of the mind that all the gadgets arent necessarily necessary so long as you pound correct form into your head and dont rush or take shots you shouldnt. You sorta touched on that with stripping all the weight off a new bow or new form but still. It just feels a little to foreign to the art of archery. But If I go down that rabbit hole too long I'll end up at bare bow archery and no one wants that x'D
I was today years old my bow likes to lean to the right and I have to tilt it the left to get my bow level and when I shoot and I follow through my bow it self dirfts left I never thought about why my bow goes that way but it makes sense now You taught me something new thanks chris
Thanks for the teachings. I’ve been learning for past four years on my own just from watching videos like yours and others. I don’t have access to a club unless I travel 3.5 hrs away and they’re not available most times on the weekends. Archery isn’t very popular in my neck of the woods. Maybe a few guys who only hunt one month out of the year. So, I appreciate the time you put into the vids.
Thanks for the video Chris, I agree that stabilizers could be something that is overly complicated, when it shouldn't be. I also agree that a stabilizer won't fix bad form lol. I'm sure that the two stabilizer setup is really helpful in the elk woods when those long shots present themselves, archery elk hunting is primarily what I do so I may want to give that a try in the future.🤙🏽🐝
Hi engineer here, a stabilizer works by increasing the bows moment of inertia which reduces abrupt movement. A longer stabilizer will show better results for the same weight. Also, your equation is literally the equation for torque: force x distance.
Thanks for this vid. I haven't put a ton of thought into my stabilizers other than that "they should balance out the bow...right??" The side bias reducing chances of error makes a lot of sense. I will have to try kicking my back stabilizer out a little and see what it does for my consistency.
Stabilizers increase the rotational inertia of the entire bow rig. You lever mass as far from rotational center as reasonable to resist the tendency for rotation. They also assist with vibration diffusion after the shot lets loose.
Nice explanation. I've never seen that stabilizer/weight formula. I found it interesting. I think my hunting setup is similar to yours, in that I have more weight on the rear stabilizer than the formula indicates. But like you said, it feels good. I'm running the Shrewd Vantage 12" out front with one ounce and the 9" out back with three ounces on my Mathews V3X29. I am really liking this setup right now.
Good video Chris. George is the man! I love the way he approaches archery from a quantitative and mathematical equation! Catch you at TAC this year man!
Excellent discussion Chris!!!! In a sense I've always been alittle confused with proper weighting of my bow. You cleared up alot for me. Thank you and be safe ....
Interesting video. I prefer shooting a short front rod (around 12") only. I don't shoot well with long rods (I have one and I have tried from time to time). The long rod moves the center of gravity far out from the bow, so the bow feels heavier. So I gets tired much sooner and thus shoots not good. In general I don't use back rods, sometimes, especially indoor I use a side rod that goes backwards, but I am not sure it makes much difference for me. :-) Not sure why I don't use the side rod for outdoor target - maybe I would if I had two bows, one for target archery and one for 3D (for 3D I use only the short front rod). Could try it though, since there is still a month or 3 weeks until the next 3D shoot - so I am practicing target archery from 30 m to 90 m. :-)
Remember, the formula is best used when you want to increase or decrease overall weight from the system. You should find where the bow shoots and holds best as fae as front and side bias go. Then if you want to keep that, but just add mass, use the formula. Any time the stabilizers aren’t parallel (both vertically and horizontally) the formula will be off. A big job of stabilizers is keeping the bow from moving when you release the arrow. In general, a front heavy system does this best.
On my daughters target bow she has a 30" front bar with 6oz and a 15" back bar with 15oz. She tried the 1to3 or 1to4 balance on initial setup,but after trail and error she found out with this setup she has the least amount of pin float and her bubble stays dead center during her shot. Like you mention; in a stabilizer setup, a lot of it is in personal preference.
I used the mathematical method for weighting my stabilizer setup and it definitely got me dialed in pretty quick. It really calmed the bow down at the shot.
The only thing I differ on opinion to you is what you said early in the video. "A 12" inch bar with more weight does the same as a 15" bar". Not true, it's a completely different feel as adding more weight to a 12" bar is adding mass weight to the entire rig. This can be detrimental to your shooting.
That formula is a basic center of balance formula. College and High School physics and hundreds of other jobs use its concept all the time in equations. I used to plan cargo to go on aircraft and used it to determine were the aircraft will balance and if it's within acceptable location to allow the plane to fly properly. He may of brought it to the archery world, but he isn't the origin of the math. Archery is just one big gigantic physics class mixed with kinaesthetic.
As a hunter and not a competition shooter, I feel that these extended stabilizers would be EXTREMELY cumbersome in any hunting situation, but especially in a tree stand. The only stabilizer I use is a 4.5 inch LimbSaver... mostly for vibration absorption. Multiple long stabilizers will never compensate for lack of practice.
I agree to an extent, but surprisingly having a 15inch stabiliser makes it easier to carry around for me because I can put it over my back and carry it like cam hands does, makes it feel lighter because it’s comfortable to hike with
You can say that but at the same time you have a 27” + sized arrow sticking out of the bow until you draw back. So in a way everyone already has a long and cumbersome object to maneuver around trees and limbs before we draw
@@matthewgroseclose4973 You are assuming a lot. I don't walk around with a knocked arrow on my string. Our mountains in Arkansas are not just dirt and rock like out west. The mountains here are covered with forest. I walk in before sunrise with a climbing stand to a location with converging deer trails or big buck sign that I scouted months in advance. I then climb a tree that I have already prepared by trimming limbs that might hinder my movement, pull up my bow by rope, knock an arrow and hang the bow on a limb hanger and wait for muy grande or meat to walk by. If I am going to stalk, I never walk around with an arrow nocked up. You are correct, it would be terribly cumbersome... so, I never do it.
Throw that limbsaver toy right in the trash.. if your arrow is nocked hanging next to you in your tree stand why not have a longer stabilizer? You’ll hold steadier with a longer bar. And even more with a rear bar. Fact.
I always went for how the bow balances in your hand. If it pulls down, add more weight in the back. Or get a lighter front stabilizer. If it pulls up, take weight away from the back. Or get a heavier front stabilizer. Let me know if I've been incorrect in this deduction.
According to This formula I should be running 2 ounces more on my back bar, guess I will buy a a couple more weights for the back and see if it changes anything in my shooting. Great info
Love the videos Chris!! You do a great job of explaining these concepts. From an engineering background, this all makes a lot of sense. That equation is the basic sum of moments equation from physics. Basically the torque caused in the front has to equal the torque in the back to have a perfect balance. Same for left and right. From there it becomes feel or intentional bias. You shoulda been an engineer Chris lol
Completely agree. When all of those physics classes help you understand many different aspects of archery. I use more of what i learned in my hobbies than i do at work 🤣😂
That’s some good info, I really liked your explanation behind stabs. Might need to reevaluate my set up. My bow is pretty well balanced but like you said I am fighting left to right tip on my level when taking a shot. I may do what you have and have the weight on the left side so I only need to fight tilting it to the right to get it level.
The statement that winds me up is that you need 3x the weight on the back to the front (which tends in be a decent rough guide for target, but I keep seeing it with regard to bowhunter setups )
I have always thought that stabs are overpriced, but a necessary piece of equipment. If you shoot deer at 30 yards and in you probably don't need one. But they always help make the bow more stable for sure.
Stabilizers work the best when you know they're working. It's a trial and error type of thing. I've been working with stabilizers for an excess of 30 years, and I'm always finding something that works just a little bit better. A little bit more. More weight on the back stabilizer then on the front one, and a front mounted bracket, not mounted way down low for the back bar like some people do. I don't like it set up that way at all, like how the gentleman in the video has his backbar mounted. It does not work at all for me.
I’ve been thinking about stabilizers. This is some good insight. I should really just focus on my form as my setup is right now. Looks like another 200 arrows tomorrow of trying to figure it out lol.
Love it bro I always say there's so much stuff out there that don't make sense I mean there's some really far fetched things out there anymore Thank you for this video
You said that you were adding a link to the George Riles information on stabilizers? Great info you provided, thanks. Always looking for new information to help me shoot better.
After watching the explanation of weight distribution, I can only wonder if the weight of the stabilizer it self should be considered in the calculation. I shoot a V bar in the back, so obviously the consideration of length in the formula when is two instead of one stabilizer in the back is important.
I just got a Matthew’s v3x 29 My local dealer had a new one at a good price so I picked it up. I like it, but I have to say it is so easy to torque it. My old bow was 36 ata and a 6.75 brace height so I guess that’s why this one feels so easy to torque. I’m wondering if stabilizers will help with this ?
Man I just wanted to say thanks for making awesome useful content you really do a great job and I’ve learned a lot from you keep up the great show brother
Awesome video Brother. All I have on my Diamond Triumph hunting setup is a 4 1/2 inch 4.5 ounce Limbsaver stabilizer. And the bow is still top heavy. What would you recommend doing to balance it a little more.
Not sure if you have a video on this or if the video you referenced has the answers but I have always wondered the correct/best way to set the amount the back stabilizer is out from the bow (and it’s height up/down as well as in/out). I have read that the tendency of the pin to want to settle lower rather than float in place indicates too much front weight - is finding your front weight first at the lightest possible the starting point for weight as well? Thanks for the video - the concept of not wanting stabilizers to put the bow in neutral makes a lot of sense
You seem to popular and busy to have time or me, but on the off chance… I’m brand new and I’m curious how much of a difference in accuracy your favorite set up has for you personally versus say with no stabilizer or just a short one up front. Have you tested that out at a specific distance? I loved your explanation. Thanks for the tips
If you can put a 12" rod on there and add a little extra weight to do the same thing as a 15" rod, then couldn't you put a 15" rod on the front and add a lot of extra weight and do the same thing as a 30" rod while still keeping your bow manageably smaller and quite a bit more compact in comparison?
Hunting rig, no stabilizer out front for me. My bow needs a short stabilizer out the back for balance. Having anything sticking out front on the bow to catch things as a still hunter is no bueno.
Just curious. If I understand it correct it seems to me that no stabilizers would cause you to use these same muscles to stabilize the bow in the same fashion without the extra weight. Thoughts?
Good info! When measuring your Stabilizers for that formula where do you measure from and to? Do you include the QD in the length? Measure to the weights or just the actual tube?
Great information especially for people like me that's new into bow hunting but I'd like to hear your thoughts on the tactacam stabilizer set up mainly cause I'm thinking about getting one mainly to film my hunt.
Hey Chris, I just bought my first bow last weekend; that being said, would you think it would be advantageous for someone who is super green to archery to shoot without stabilizers for a while and try to focus on form and other things like good follow through?
I started without one then i started trying some out and i now run a 10” up front and a 8” off the side.. After testing over a dozen i found this was best for me. Yeah the bows heavier but im shooting much better
Great video Chris, just watched the George Riles video. Excellent info. My question would be how to you know where to start with the length of your front stabilizer? It is a standard if you are a target shooter it's 30", if you are a hunter 12". Would love to hear your thoughts.
There are a lot of assumptions made here without any explanations as to why certain attributes are being employed. One example would be the use of low center of mass. Why does it have to be low? What if I told you that holding steady while aiming, and stabilizing the shot itself are two different requirements that have very different mathematical models?
That equation doesn’t factor in the length or weight of the sight and dovetail, and the difference in how the front bar offsets that sight and dovetail. Mathematically it’s definitely a rough estimate and is sort of a waste of time in my opinion
I had wondered what these were for having only done traditional archery and i came to realise you are missing a key point on the purpose ( the main purpose that is) is to increase the energy required to add inertia to the bow, this is done through leverage of having a mass stiffly suspended some distance lower from the centre of mass but much like the reason trapeze perfomers carry two long bendy poles, to lower their centre of mass and increase the force required to change their centre of balanced, therefore giving them more time to naturally stabilise themselves. Now i understand what these are for and yes, they make sense for the reasons you also stated but these are more like secondary bonuses ( vibration reduction and stability - which you failed to explain the principles of) did you know therefore you could achieve probably greater levels of stabilisation by having an opposite inertia created at the point of arrow release, perhaps you could add some more pulleys to those things and have some weight coming back, it would reduce the power but according to what ive seen you are interested in a smooth release for accuracy.
Do you feel adding more backbar weight or swinging the bar out is going to add a lot of torque on the grip when dealing with angled shots? I feel like even at Reos peak he struggled at Redding bc he had so much weight and stuck his blade back bar so far out?
its much just thinking here , is it to absorb the shock ? then find out were the shock hits , it seems counter productive to have a back and forward stabelizer ,if youre just balace the front and back you just add weight , and that must not be the point ,
Why wouldn't the weight of the quiver, arrows, etc be accounted for in the weight of the back bar? Isn't the back bar balancing the weight of those attachments?
He says just after 6min mark he's talking about no quiver because he usually has it off when shooting. If you have the quiver on then that formula is gonna change.
I'm only 15 and your videos are helping me with my bow hunting skills and what is necessary for my bow. I basically have the same hunting setup as up. Thanks Chris
Thanks for the info Chris, would love to see you shoot your bow in a long range situation with and without your stabilizer to see the difference in grouping.
Yeah, Very good question
I’ve watched countless videos on stabilisation and no one has ever explained the advantage of adding bias to the bow in a way that makes perfect sense. I’ve tried it for myself now and it’s a game changer. Thanks Chris.
With my V3, the bow without any stabilizers, front and back, is already well balanced. It is possible to hunt without stabilizers period and the effect on the shot without stabilizers is negligible in hunting situations. As a result, I simply shoot with a single rubber stabilizer "stacker" ball and really, that is only to hold my wrist strap on. I have hunted with a simple small bolt in the stabilizer bar hole once again to simply hold my wrist strap on the bow. Lugging around in the woods all that extra weight is pointless IMO. And lengthy stabilizers whether out the front or back has more potential to hurt you in the tree, whether in the saddle or stand than to help when you are making the shot. Thanks for sharing the tech info Chris. Very interesting and I learned some stuff today.
This.
The point of stabilizers is not to balance the bow. The point is to increase the bows moment of inertia, essentially this makes it harder to move the bow. More force is required to move the bow 2 degrees with stabilizers than without. A good bow is balanced from the factory or close to it. However, they are compact, and their moment of inertia is very small. Stabilizers can help in wind or if you are shaky because the same force will move your aiming point less. Like Chris said. do what feels best, but that is how it works
I sat in Blair Sandberg’s kitchen back in the spring of 2007 and he gave me a physics lesson on rotational torque and why designed the original b-stinger the way he did. It’s awesome to see that he innovatived the stabilizer and archery world and we are doing everything differently.
The point of a stabilizer is to compensate for the geometry issues created by the bow. In a perfect archery system, the archers hands would be in the centre of the bow, both at the nock and at the grip, creating a symmetrical spring with which to launch the arrow. Unfortunately this means that the arrow is going to have to go through the archer's hand. To avoid this, the grip is moved below the arrow, but this creates a point of pressure below the centreline of the bow which causes the bow to kick upwards on release. The stabilizer is there to counteract this kick and ensure that the arrow leaves cleanly without an upward kick affecting the flight of the arrow. Having a stabilizer sticking out the front of the bow creates a front-back imbalance, so having a rear stabilizer helps to correct this imbalance while enhancing the resistance of the bow to the upward kick.
I have started looking more into stabilizers as I just got my first ever deer at 32 with my uncle's 30 year old bow he gave me long ago, and decided to get a flagship bow (Bowtech SR350) as I'd finally done his bow justice and gotten a harvest with it. I'm not sure how I feel about it all yet. I was able to pull off a Robinhood at 25 yards within my first month of practicing with his bow again (PSE Edge 1000C, it had been years since I'd shot it and I started working on my form to get back into archery), and the only stabilizer I had on it was a Trophy Ridge 8" dampener more or less. It was definitely much less forgiving, but it forced me into proper form for results. I'm of the mind that all the gadgets arent necessarily necessary so long as you pound correct form into your head and dont rush or take shots you shouldnt. You sorta touched on that with stripping all the weight off a new bow or new form but still. It just feels a little to foreign to the art of archery. But If I go down that rabbit hole too long I'll end up at bare bow archery and no one wants that x'D
I was today years old my bow likes to lean to the right and I have to tilt it the left to get my bow level and when I shoot and I follow through my bow it self dirfts left I never thought about why my bow goes that way but it makes sense now
You taught me something new thanks chris
Thanks for the teachings. I’ve been learning for past four years on my own just from watching videos like yours and others. I don’t have access to a club unless I travel 3.5 hrs away and they’re not available most times on the weekends. Archery isn’t very popular in my neck of the woods. Maybe a few guys who only hunt one month out of the year. So, I appreciate the time you put into the vids.
I wish there was a way to try different stabilizers or releases or things like that before you buy them
any decent shop will let you try any stab before you buy
Thanks for the video Chris, I agree that stabilizers could be something that is overly complicated, when it shouldn't be. I also agree that a stabilizer won't fix bad form lol. I'm sure that the two stabilizer setup is really helpful in the elk woods when those long shots present themselves, archery elk hunting is primarily what I do so I may want to give that a try in the future.🤙🏽🐝
Hi engineer here, a stabilizer works by increasing the bows moment of inertia which reduces abrupt movement. A longer stabilizer will show better results for the same weight. Also, your equation is literally the equation for torque: force x distance.
I agree. Stabilizers provide a better and smoother shot if you will. I run a 12 front and 7 on the back for my hunting set up.
Thanks for this vid. I haven't put a ton of thought into my stabilizers other than that "they should balance out the bow...right??" The side bias reducing chances of error makes a lot of sense. I will have to try kicking my back stabilizer out a little and see what it does for my consistency.
I didn't know about calculating how much was needed on the back bar, but I got the same thing by just feel. Pretty cool to confirm it.
Stabilizers increase the rotational inertia of the entire bow rig. You lever mass as far from rotational center as reasonable to resist the tendency for rotation. They also assist with vibration diffusion after the shot lets loose.
Nice explanation. I've never seen that stabilizer/weight formula. I found it interesting. I think my hunting setup is similar to yours, in that I have more weight on the rear stabilizer than the formula indicates. But like you said, it feels good. I'm running the Shrewd Vantage 12" out front with one ounce and the 9" out back with three ounces on my Mathews V3X29. I am really liking this setup right now.
Good video Chris. George is the man! I love the way he approaches archery from a quantitative and mathematical equation! Catch you at TAC this year man!
In the 1980's, most of us used the Easton X7 stabilizers, we used them mostly as a kick stand for our bows.
Excellent discussion Chris!!!! In a sense I've always been alittle confused with proper weighting of my bow. You cleared up alot for me.
Thank you and be safe ....
Awesome video. I have been shooting without one and doing just fine out to 40 yards, no issues at all. I'm going to try one now just to do it.
Interesting video. I prefer shooting a short front rod (around 12") only. I don't shoot well with long rods (I have one and I have tried from time to time). The long rod moves the center of gravity far out from the bow, so the bow feels heavier. So I gets tired much sooner and thus shoots not good. In general I don't use back rods, sometimes, especially indoor I use a side rod that goes backwards, but I am not sure it makes much difference for me. :-) Not sure why I don't use the side rod for outdoor target - maybe I would if I had two bows, one for target archery and one for 3D (for 3D I use only the short front rod). Could try it though, since there is still a month or 3 weeks until the next 3D shoot - so I am practicing target archery from 30 m to 90 m. :-)
Remember, the formula is best used when you want to increase or decrease overall weight from the system. You should find where the bow shoots and holds best as fae as front and side bias go. Then if you want to keep that, but just add mass, use the formula.
Any time the stabilizers aren’t parallel (both vertically and horizontally) the formula will be off.
A big job of stabilizers is keeping the bow from moving when you release the arrow. In general, a front heavy system does this best.
That was a good One Chris. Appreciate all your help.
On my daughters target bow she has a 30" front bar with 6oz and a 15" back bar with 15oz. She tried the 1to3 or 1to4 balance on initial setup,but after trail and error she found out with this setup she has the least amount of pin float and her bubble stays dead center during her shot. Like you mention; in a stabilizer setup, a lot of it is in personal preference.
I used the mathematical method for weighting my stabilizer setup and it definitely got me dialed in pretty quick. It really calmed the bow down at the shot.
THIS is the best Stabz video ive ever seen ...... thanks Chris
The only thing I differ on opinion to you is what you said early in the video. "A 12" inch bar with more weight does the same as a 15" bar". Not true, it's a completely different feel as adding more weight to a 12" bar is adding mass weight to the entire rig. This can be detrimental to your shooting.
Great video Chris, this helped me a ton. I’m new to bow hunting and your videos are very helpful to me.
That formula is a basic center of balance formula. College and High School physics and hundreds of other jobs use its concept all the time in equations. I used to plan cargo to go on aircraft and used it to determine were the aircraft will balance and if it's within acceptable location to allow the plane to fly properly. He may of brought it to the archery world, but he isn't the origin of the math. Archery is just one big gigantic physics class mixed with kinaesthetic.
As a hunter and not a competition shooter, I feel that these extended stabilizers would be EXTREMELY cumbersome in any hunting situation, but especially in a tree stand. The only stabilizer I use is a 4.5 inch LimbSaver... mostly for vibration absorption. Multiple long stabilizers will never compensate for lack of practice.
Longer stabilizers are more common with western style hunting vs eastern style hunting. More open and longer shots.
I agree to an extent, but surprisingly having a 15inch stabiliser makes it easier to carry around for me because I can put it over my back and carry it like cam hands does, makes it feel lighter because it’s comfortable to hike with
You can say that but at the same time you have a 27” + sized arrow sticking out of the bow until you draw back. So in a way everyone already has a long and cumbersome object to maneuver around trees and limbs before we draw
@@matthewgroseclose4973 You are assuming a lot. I don't walk around with a knocked arrow on my string. Our mountains in Arkansas are not just dirt and rock like out west. The mountains here are covered with forest. I walk in before sunrise with a climbing stand to a location with converging deer trails or big buck sign that I scouted months in advance. I then climb a tree that I have already prepared by trimming limbs that might hinder my movement, pull up my bow by rope, knock an arrow and hang the bow on a limb hanger and wait for muy grande or meat to walk by. If I am going to stalk, I never walk around with an arrow nocked up. You are correct, it would be terribly cumbersome... so, I never do it.
Throw that limbsaver toy right in the trash.. if your arrow is nocked hanging next to you in your tree stand why not have a longer stabilizer? You’ll hold steadier with a longer bar. And even more with a rear bar. Fact.
very well explained, I know very little about the technical side of setups, but I learned some new things.
I always think of a tight rope walker with their long balance poles and how helpful it is to them when I think of target now stabilizers.
I always went for how the bow balances in your hand. If it pulls down, add more weight in the back. Or get a lighter front stabilizer. If it pulls up, take weight away from the back. Or get a heavier front stabilizer. Let me know if I've been incorrect in this deduction.
Chris, on your Phase4 you run your back bar straight out while on your target you have it at a 10-15 degree down angle
I've moved from Matthews to Hoyt, best decision the last year couldn't be more happy
Great video. It is definitely a personal feel, like I like my bow more back heavy. I can run a 10:1 and feel really good.
Okay, the back bar bias tip is pretty great and something that I just kinda stumbled on today.
According to This formula I should be running 2 ounces more on my back bar, guess I will buy a a couple more weights for the back and see if it changes anything in my shooting. Great info
Thanks. This video makes a lot of sense.
Love the videos Chris!! You do a great job of explaining these concepts. From an engineering background, this all makes a lot of sense. That equation is the basic sum of moments equation from physics. Basically the torque caused in the front has to equal the torque in the back to have a perfect balance. Same for left and right. From there it becomes feel or intentional bias. You shoulda been an engineer Chris lol
Gotta love that increased moment of inertia
Completely agree. When all of those physics classes help you understand many different aspects of archery. I use more of what i learned in my hobbies than i do at work 🤣😂
That’s some good info, I really liked your explanation behind stabs. Might need to reevaluate my set up. My bow is pretty well balanced but like you said I am fighting left to right tip on my level when taking a shot. I may do what you have and have the weight on the left side so I only need to fight tilting it to the right to get it level.
The statement that winds me up is that you need 3x the weight on the back to the front (which tends in be a decent rough guide for target, but I keep seeing it with regard to bowhunter setups )
"Stiff rod"....ALWAYS necessary.
Huh huh....huh huh.
Seriously though, thanks for the info. Didn't know that much detail about stabilizers.
I have always thought that stabs are overpriced, but a necessary piece of equipment. If you shoot deer at 30 yards and in you probably don't need one. But they always help make the bow more stable for sure.
Great breakdown. I learned some stuff for sure, especially about the back bar.
Mantis x8 is a good tool to help with stabilizet setup. Especially when it comes to siderods to help eliminate tilt.
Stabilizers work the best when you know they're working. It's a trial and error type of thing. I've been working with stabilizers for an excess of 30 years, and I'm always finding something that works just a little bit better. A little bit more. More weight on the back stabilizer then on the front one, and a front mounted bracket, not mounted way down low for the back bar like some people do. I don't like it set up that way at all, like how the gentleman in the video has his backbar mounted. It does not work at all for me.
I’ve been thinking about stabilizers.
This is some good insight. I should really just focus on my form as my setup is right now. Looks like another 200 arrows tomorrow of trying to figure it out lol.
I'm more curious about just using gyros, I don't know if you could get them quiet enough for hunting but they could be really nice for targets
Love it bro I always say there's so much stuff out there that don't make sense I mean there's some really far fetched things out there anymore Thank you for this video
Your videos are always entertaining and informative. Thank you.
Great lesson on stabilizers. You made it very simple.
Solid content Chris!!! keep it coming 👍
You said that you were adding a link to the George Riles information on stabilizers? Great info you provided, thanks. Always looking for new information to help me shoot better.
Been waiting on this one forever. Amazing
I run a 12 and 7 on my hunting/3D bow and it’s awesome feel and balance on the bow i have it adjusted to where it shoots good with quiver on or off.
I run a 11 and a 9 on my hunting and 3D bow. And I shoot wt my quiver on.
After watching the explanation of weight distribution, I can only wonder if the weight of the stabilizer it self should be considered in the calculation. I shoot a V bar in the back, so obviously the consideration of length in the formula when is two instead of one stabilizer in the back is important.
I would think that the slight angle down also fights against “cant”.
I just got a Matthew’s v3x 29 My local dealer had a new one at a good price so I picked it up. I like it, but I have to say it is so easy to torque it. My old bow was 36 ata and a 6.75 brace height so I guess that’s why this one feels so easy to torque. I’m wondering if stabilizers will help with this ?
Thank you for finally doing a video on this🙏
Fire video brotha!
Man I just wanted to say thanks for making awesome useful content you really do a great job and I’ve learned a lot from you keep up the great show brother
I removed both 12 and 9 and now run a 5 arrow quivelizer and I shoot better. Loving it
Awesome video Brother. All I have on my Diamond Triumph hunting setup is a 4 1/2 inch 4.5 ounce Limbsaver stabilizer. And the bow is still top heavy. What would you recommend doing to balance it a little more.
If I didn’t want to use a back bar would that handicap me in a hunting situation? Thanks 🙏
Opinion based off of a professional athlete 🤘🏻👌🏻 thank you bro!!
I love "the truth about" videos. Feel like I should put my tinfoil hat on every time 😅
Great explanation Chris…..thank you.
Were are the podcasts and very helpful
Not sure if you have a video on this or if the video you referenced has the answers but I have always wondered the correct/best way to set the amount the back stabilizer is out from the bow (and it’s height up/down as well as in/out). I have read that the tendency of the pin to want to settle lower rather than float in place indicates too much front weight - is finding your front weight first at the lightest possible the starting point for weight as well? Thanks for the video - the concept of not wanting stabilizers to put the bow in neutral makes a lot of sense
You seem to popular and busy to have time or me, but on the off chance… I’m brand new and I’m curious how much of a difference in accuracy your favorite set up has for you personally versus say with no stabilizer or just a short one up front. Have you tested that out at a specific distance?
I loved your explanation. Thanks for the tips
When you do the math for your bars should you include the length of the mounts? Like the quick detach off the front??
Thanks
If you can put a 12" rod on there and add a little extra weight to do the same thing as a 15" rod, then couldn't you put a 15" rod on the front and add a lot of extra weight and do the same thing as a 30" rod while still keeping your bow manageably smaller and quite a bit more compact in comparison?
Thanks for the information! Do stabilizers work differently if you are shooting from a treestand?
Hunting rig, no stabilizer out front for me. My bow needs a short stabilizer out the back for balance. Having anything sticking out front on the bow to catch things as a still hunter is no bueno.
Just curious. If I understand it correct it seems to me that no stabilizers would cause you to use these same muscles to stabilize the bow in the same fashion without the extra weight. Thoughts?
So the back bar shouldn’t make the bow balance left and right without having to apply bias with your grip?
Good info! When measuring your Stabilizers for that formula where do you measure from and to? Do you include the QD in the length? Measure to the weights or just the actual tube?
Hey, Chris.Just wondering what do you like to run up front for point weight on your arrows?
Great information especially for people like me that's new into bow hunting but I'd like to hear your thoughts on the tactacam stabilizer set up mainly cause I'm thinking about getting one mainly to film my hunt.
Hey Chris, I just bought my first bow last weekend; that being said, would you think it would be advantageous for someone who is super green to archery to shoot without stabilizers for a while and try to focus on form and other things like good follow through?
I would , not everybody needs large stabilizer
I shot and hunted without one forever lol
I started without one then i started trying some out and i now run a 10” up front and a 8” off the side.. After testing over a dozen i found this was best for me. Yeah the bows heavier but im shooting much better
Great video Chris, just watched the George Riles video. Excellent info. My question would be how to you know where to start with the length of your front stabilizer? It is a standard if you are a target shooter it's 30", if you are a hunter 12". Would love to hear your thoughts.
Does this mean only having a forward stabilizer is pointless. Is back required if there’s a front?
Chris why do you put your dampeners on the end of your weight stacks, surely that significantly reduces their effectiveness?
There are a lot of assumptions made here without any explanations as to why certain attributes are being employed. One example would be the use of low center of mass. Why does it have to be low? What if I told you that holding steady while aiming, and stabilizing the shot itself are two different requirements that have very different mathematical models?
Is the goal bow balance or full draw balance? New to bow and learning a ton. Thanks the outstanding content.
Hey fellas make sure your rod is stiff 😊😊😊😆. Chris Bee 🐝 doing good things 👍👍
That equation doesn’t factor in the length or weight of the sight and dovetail, and the difference in how the front bar offsets that sight and dovetail. Mathematically it’s definitely a rough estimate and is sort of a waste of time in my opinion
Ok here we go time to learn something 👍👍.
Great content qs always Chris! Appreciate what you do and all your hard work and inspiring all of us archers with your content! God bless!
I know it’s personal preference but how much weight do you run on your 30” and 12” bars for your TRX?
I had wondered what these were for having only done traditional archery and i came to realise you are missing a key point on the purpose ( the main purpose that is) is to increase the energy required to add inertia to the bow, this is done through leverage of having a mass stiffly suspended some distance lower from the centre of mass but much like the reason trapeze perfomers carry two long bendy poles, to lower their centre of mass and increase the force required to change their centre of balanced, therefore giving them more time to naturally stabilise themselves. Now i understand what these are for and yes, they make sense for the reasons you also stated but these are more like secondary bonuses ( vibration reduction and stability - which you failed to explain the principles of) did you know therefore you could achieve probably greater levels of stabilisation by having an opposite inertia created at the point of arrow release, perhaps you could add some more pulleys to those things and have some weight coming back, it would reduce the power but according to what ive seen you are interested in a smooth release for accuracy.
So I have a 30” front bar with 0 weights on it.
I have a 12” back bar.
So 30x0/12=0???
So if I had 30”x2ounces/12=5ounces?
Does that grip fit a vxr? Good video, thanks for the info
Do you feel adding more backbar weight or swinging the bar out is going to add a lot of torque on the grip when dealing with angled shots? I feel like even at Reos peak he struggled at Redding bc he had so much weight and stuck his blade back bar so far out?
its much just thinking here , is it to absorb the shock ? then find out were the shock hits , it seems counter productive to have a back and forward stabelizer ,if youre just balace the front and back you just add weight , and that must not be the point ,
What would help the side to side motion broke my arm last year but haven’t got all the steadiness back yet
What do you have that allows you to detach the low pro quiver so easily?
Why wouldn't the weight of the quiver, arrows, etc be accounted for in the weight of the back bar? Isn't the back bar balancing the weight of those attachments?
He says just after 6min mark he's talking about no quiver because he usually has it off when shooting. If you have the quiver on then that formula is gonna change.