FINALLY! We think we know why Mecca was chosen!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 พ.ค. 2024
- The Islamic Traditions have always claimed that the Hajj has only occurred in one city: Mecca.
Yet, the historical record researched by Gibson now suggests that every one of the stages of the Hajj were practiced much earlier and much further north, in fact 600 miles further north, in Petra.
What's more, the 'Masjid al Haram' (the forbidden place of bowing) Gibson found also existed in Petra long before Mecca.
Most significantly, however, Gibson discovered that the reasons behind moving out of Petra to Mecca had everything to do with Politics, and virtually nothing to do with theology.
The pilgrims were simply following the 'black stone', as they believed that God's presence rested with the black stone; so wherever it went, so did God's presence go, which ironically is still today housed on the Eastern corner of the Ka'aba...in Mecca!
But isn't that idolatrous, and doesn't that commit the one unforgivable sin "Shirk", the belief that equating anything with God (in this case the black stone) is punishable by death?
Note: This episode was recorded in December 2019, and then updated in April of 2021.
© Pfander Centre for Apologetics - US, 2021
(46,640) Music: Adding the Sun, by Kevin Macleod - from filmmusic-io
Al Fadi is cool as a cucumber. Extremely composed. A good counterpoint to Jay. God bless you chaps.
It's true. Jay is running around with his hair on fire while Al Fadi in a dignified manner. They're both INCREDIBLE scholars with different temperaments.
Lol. Both of them are not scholars. They are just evangelicals with no background in history, archaeology or even Islamic studies.
@@cpswyl2 The reason Christianity is such a messed up religion is because either Christians are always coming up with "prophecies" which never come true or connecting imaginary dots.
@@QabilAGhor you wrong Jay has a PHD in Islamic polemic
@@valerossi823 There is no degree called "Islamic Polemic."
The origin of Islam in Petra has much more support historically and archaeologically than does Mecca.
🤣😂, come on man, you think Islam is like other religions has lost its way.. Islam was transferred by trustworthy people in a trustworthy ways that even western scholars can't deny, only dump people say these things, read a book man teach yourself some history
Trustworthy beduins that divorced their wives if Muhammed saw them.
@@UnattendedNarrative Islam has lost it's way lock, stock, & barrel a long time ago. It's trying to find its way home with no avail.
Nah.You can’t do that major of a change and it be completely lost to time and unrecorded by not only muslims but none of the surrounding civilizations.Its absurd on its face.
@@hdl135605 how do you know that?
These guys make a great team.
Al Fadi is an arabic speaker that is a bonus.
100% correct they make a great team.
Tweedle dumb and Tweedle De
@More qurans Found 3 in 1 or 2 in 1 or just 1 ?
New International Version Mark 16:19 After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God.
King James Version Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:
@@AbdulHafeez-je7qz I would say dumb and dumber is more fitting.
@@jarrygarry5316 om9o9mmlo9o......
M.
Bro, Dr Jay Smith I am so proud of you the way you explain every detail of their Religion. you are my Hero and I pray to the Holy spirit to inspire you and give you good health, happiness and prosperity to carry on this Monastery. God bless you.
But you can't see your own religion is just as bad, why can't people of a religion look at their own beliefs with the same eyes as they do others ?
But you can't see your own religion is just as bad, why can't people of a religion look at their own beliefs with the same eyes as they do others ?
Their GPS was off.
😂 jay Smith is a joke
@@billomalley1168 he strikes me as an extremely clever man.
Jesus Christ bless both of Al Fadi and Jay Smith, alongwith their family.
Love from Indonesian Christian...
I'm a Filipino Christian. God bless you
Subhanallah you are finished fil dunia wal akhera how dare you talk bad about the Muslims and the kaaba you claim you are coming from maccah I know and you know that is the truth because of money you have decades to abuse Islam its prophet and his family wallahi jahanam is waiting for you you will never escape the rwath of Allah your creator you think you can bring Islam down you are wrong it is you will perish and I'm sure you will meet your creator and your worst nightmare you have never ever met in your entire life you are decrease
@@bigmanjoe3603 Thanks brother. Our Jesus Christ may bless you alongwith your entire family...
Also, the water course that Mohammad was supposed to have run in 7 times between the 2 mountains exists in Petra, not in Mecca
@JESUS IS LORD WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT Sun setting in muddy puddle means that the guy in question travelled to the WEST direction and found a muddy puddle. Dumbo
There are mosques that pre date Islam, meaning Islam is basically a continuation of a pagan religion of the Arabs.
@@nazeemsultan123 then the sun prostrates under aloha’s throne until it is give permission to rise again. The kango-ran says the earth is flat in numerous places.
It is] he who hath stretched forth (madda) the earth, and placed therein stedfast [mountains], and rivers; and hath ordained therein of every fruit two [different] kinds. He causeth the night to cover the day. Herein are certain signs unto people who consider. S. 13:3 Sale
And We have spread out the earth (flat) (madadnaha); Placed mountains (on it) firm and immovable; And in it made all kinds of things in proper balance. S. 15:19 Syed Vickar Ahamad
And the earth, we have stretched it out (madadnaha) and thrown thereon firm mountains, and caused to grow thereon every beautiful kind. S. 50:7 Palmer
@@billshepherd5090 the beauty of the al-Qur'an and miracle. If you didn't know, then there are many researchers and scientists nowadays claims that the earth is indeed FLAT❗❗⁉️❗🤔🤔🔥🔥🔥
that's prophet Ismail honey..with his mother hajar(Abraham wife-prophet Ismail born in canaan)there are different between ignorant and stupid..prophet muhamad never go to Petra the far journey he used to go was to Palestine a.k.a as-syam area..2 time only first time when his uncle Abu talib met him with priest bushra then go back..second when he aged 25 years old do trading for khadija then later became his wife..petra people specific for thamud nation their prophet named Salleh(pious)their ability craving mountain that place cursed place that story even recorded in al Quran honey..its prophet Salleh and thamud people...not prophet muhamad...petra in Jordan honey couple km near to Dead Sea..nation of prophet lot being punishment..sodom and ghommorah..prophet not encourage muslim go there bcs cursed place..some people who weak in strength/faith can effect by that place..can make them sick..bcs of badi of dead people..there are people who die bcs effect by badi of the dead..usually hard to cure..even can effect non muslim ha..thats why places like grave or hunted placed don't bring baby or sick people..they will fall sick..badi as bad as shir(magic)when visit that place recite in the name of Allah seek protection...these thamud people they pagan..they being punish bcs kill camel and treat to kill prophet Salleh..they didn't live there just crave mountain to show off.Its stupid didn't know the different generation gap of thousand year between prophet Salleh and prophet Muhammad..nation of thamud they from same lineage of madyan nation from Noah decendents..prophet muhamad not send for thamud nation kiddo.
Very informative, thank you for your hard work and thank you for sharing, God bless.
All those information has been there for ages, and REFUTED by muslims. Only if you had taken the trouble to research it up, only then you would have known about it and also that all these claims has been REFUTED many times❗❗⁉️❗🔥🔥🔥 so yeah, Jay Smith hasn't done any research except that he took someone else's work and re-presented it❗❗⁉️❗That's all he has done.
@@Joorawon.M.Yousuf Whats the refutation pls? Can you provide a link? Surely that would make more sense than what you have just replied with...
They choose Mecca because it was big enough for Paris Hilton and Kim Kardashian shops
@@siennachappell Beside shops and hotels, The birth place of Islam and prophet Mohammad doesn't even care about Mohammad's cartoon drawings, not even worth to mention it.
Loved visiting Petra in 2005. Marveled at the water delivery systems, carved structures, caves.. Truly amazing. Please illuminate.
Petra was built by Christians.
Jealous.
I’ve been saying this since I lived in KSA during 2017-2019 once I’d visited Madean Saleh (before it was wildly popular) and before the country became “open”. Thank you for backing up with details 🙏🙌👍Great work y’all.
Our Lord works in mysterious ways. Amen
His will and His timing 🙏
I have recently seen a television programme where people were digging and finding artefacts in Petra. I would not be surprised if one day something is found to prove these theories on Petra. Something which would say 'Muhammad wuz 'ere,' so to speak.
Al fadi and Jay Smith both deserve applus from all the humanity loving people all over the world. They have done great service to the truth seekers. It is clear beyond doubt that muhmmad was born and raised in Petra instead of Mecca . Petra is the original birth place of Islam. Whole muslim world should welcome this fact. Hajj pilgrimage in Petra was continued till 1986 . After it was forcefully discontinued by Jordan and UNESCO . Now please focus your attention on the muhmmad biography which is 90 % fabricated . He has been depicted as womanizer, sex addict, extraordinary playbuoy, filthy, inhuman war Lord, cruel, slave trader. Please scrutinize his life and deeds.
Roman Emperor Heliogabalus took the stone from Petra for a while and paraded it in Rome as symbol of his god Sol Invictus.
I always suspected that it was the same stone as the one in Mecca.
That was an interesting rabbit hole. Thanks.
Utter nonsense. There were countless baetyls. Elagabalus's baetyl probably ended in the trash.
Baetyl is just meteorite rocks. Any black meteorite rock would do the trick.
Baetyl is a semantic version of Beit-El (House of God).
Elagabalus was the high priest/king of Emesa (modern Homs, Syria)
He brought his god-rock from the temple in Homs, Syria to Rome
(Nobody knows where it was taken after the emperor was assassinated)
Heliogabalus reigned from 220 to 222 and died poisoned by a relative. After his death the temple, in Rome, of diety Helagabal was abandoned and nobody knows where the stone was brought or to whom it was sold.
Petra was also known as Becca or the place of weeping and they had a temple dedicated to Arabian gods aka Masjid al Haram or the forbidden worshipping place for pilgrims that was destroyed by an earthquake although it's still standing partly.
1. From what source/s did Mark plagiarizes the verses he put in the biography of Prophet jESUs (pbuh) which he deceptively labeled as Mark's make-believe gospel?
2. From what source/s did Matthew plagiarizes the verses he put in the biography of Prophet jESUs (pbuh) which he deceptively labeled as Matthew's make-believe gospel?
3. From what source/s did Luke plagiarizes the verses he put in the biography of Prophet jESUs (pbuh) which he deceptively labeled as Luke's make-believe gospel?
4. From what source/s did John plagiarizes the verses he put in the biography of Prophet jESUs (pbuh) which he deceptively labeled as John's make-believe gospel?
5. From what source/s did Paul plagiarizes the verses he put in his letters to the different churches of: 1). Romans; 2). Hebrews; 3). Corinthians; 4). Galatians; 5). Colossians; 6). Philippians; 7). Ephesians; 8). Thessalonians?
6. From what source/s did Paul plagiarizes the verses he put in his letters to the different individuals like:1). Timothy; 2). Titus; 3). Philemon; 4). James; 5). John; 6). Jude (Judas); 7). Peter?
7. From what source/s did Paul plagiarizes the verses he put in his ridiculous fictional diary called the book of Acts?
8. From what source/s did John plagiarizes the verses he put in his dream of fantasy which deceptively labeled as the book of Revelations?
9. Why is it the Bible writers copied and plagiarized word for word the Hebrew Bible or the Jewish book of Judaism and deceptively labeled it as the Old Testament, and afterward shamelessly bragged themselves that they are inspired by the Holy Spirit?
10. Where is the Aramaic Gospel, a book sent by God to Prophet jESUs (pbuh) to be preached to the children of Israel (Jews)? -02-24-23
@@defenderoftruth3212
1. None
2. None
3. None
4. None
5. None
6. None
7. None
8. None
9. Plagiarism is defined by the dictionary of Cambridge as "the process or practice of using another person's ideas or work and pretending that it is your own". Christians didn't plagiarise the Pentanteuch as they know that they are using a pre-Christ text. Plus, both the Bible and the Hebrew Bible is not a book as your Qur'an, but a compilation of such.
10. No book was sent to the Jesus and there's no mention about it except for a book that came 600 years later after the Crucifixion and Resurrection of Jesuschrist
@@defenderoftruth3212 you should be more properly labels as the “Defender of Lies.” You Abduls are so painfully ignorant about all things historic.
And Petra seams to be the place, what ist known under the name Kadesh-Barnea (Dtn 1,2), where Israel was for a long time (Dtn 1,46) - round about 38 years.
No. Becca is the old name of Mecca. It is even used in Quran. Petra was never called Becca.
Thank you a lot for such interesting discussion. Mr Smith tells us a story with so much passion and love. I really enjoy him saying things in arabic - so poetic language. I am not muslim and not arab, but i like such discussion
When I heard Gibson talking about the qibla facing Petra I get his argument… the in between and finally the Mecca direction follows a time line😊
On the issue of mecca, Dan Gibson's research is the most convincing, in my opinion.
A quiet,
unassuming researcher
like Gibson,
pitching curveballs at the muslim world...
Dr Jay at his best oo-tu-tu-tu revelations
How long do you give Islam before it is gone/collapses, thanks to all these udeniable facts that has come forward ?
That depends on You own decisions. There are people that live in the 1st, the 7th, the 15th, the 18th or the 21st century - it’s up to Yourself.
Christianity still goes on with as many falsehoods as Islam, why do you think they will collapse and not Christianity? They are all obviously man made political statements when looked at from the outside with no bias
@@doreenorr6435 they’re being promoted by delusional ppl as well. Either because of bad intentions, a lack of knowledge or fear of losing something: in a perplex way, especially by women.
I lost my zumzum well!! 🎶 Someone should write a song!! 🎵
Joy is the flag flown high in the castle of my heart.
@Arief Sheik i agrée that they have it wrong but Martin Luther is their enemy ( the Roman church) so why pick on him. He said word alone faith alone and grace alone which is why they call him a heretic. They turned a Jewish metaphor into a strange dogma of blood instead of hearing what was inferred.
Brilliant information, keep up the episodes please. 👏
I have always been amazed by someone walking around a stone 7 times and kissing it that we don't know whats inside
When the Jews bang their head against their wall are you amazed by that too?
What about their practices of throwing stones at the devil inside the Kaaba?
@@avi3860 yeah right
@@avi3860 throughing stone spot is far from Kaba, it is called Zamarra.
@@faithfultoyeshua4576 ...
1. From what source/s did Mark plagiarizes the verses he put in the biography of Prophet jESUs (pbuh) which he deceptively labeled as Mark's make-believe gospel?
2. From what source/s did Matthew plagiarizes the verses he put in the biography of Prophet jESUs (pbuh) which he deceptively labeled as Matthew's make-believe gospel?
3. From what source/s did Luke plagiarizes the verses he put in the biography of Prophet jESUs (pbuh) which he deceptively labeled as Luke's make-believe gospel?
4. From what source/s did John plagiarizes the verses he put in the biography of Prophet jESUs (pbuh) which he deceptively labeled as John's make-believe gospel?
5. From what source/s did Paul plagiarizes the verses he put in his letters to the different churches of: 1). Romans; 2). Hebrews; 3). Corinthians; 4). Galatians; 5). Colossians; 6). Philippians; 7). Ephesians; 8). Thessalonians?
6. From what source/s did Paul plagiarizes the verses he put in his letters to the different individuals like:1). Timothy; 2). Titus; 3). Philemon; 4). James; 5). John; 6). Jude (Judas); 7). Peter?
7. From what source/s did Paul plagiarizes the verses he put in his ridiculous fictional diary called the book of Acts?
8. From what source/s did John plagiarizes the verses he put in his dream of fantasy which deceptively labeled as the book of Revelations?
9. Why is it the Bible writers copied and plagiarized word for word the Hebrew Bible or the Jewish book of Judaism and deceptively labeled it as the Old Testament, and afterward shamelessly bragged themselves that they are inspired by the Holy Spirit?
10. Where is the Aramaic Gospel, a book sent by God to Prophet jESUs (pbuh) to be preached to the children of Israel (Jews)? -02-24-23
Indian scholars say that for the God Shiva they also have circumambulation and the throwing of stones.
Yeah it's all Bullshit
Yep!
Where can I find more info
Thank you very much for this series!!!! With gratitud and love from Mexico City!!!!
Muslims watching this will have Yasir Qadhi's words in their minds..
"It gets very awkward . . . "
As a Muslim I can confirm that you are WRONG!
The silly idea that Mecca was initially in Petra is the equivalent of stating that the Washington DC was initially in North Korea.
These claims make you, and other Christian followers of jay, look foolish.
@@BreakFix Start caring about the truth... blind believers would then look foolish to you...as they do right now for others...
@Robbie Stones
No that’s not what I’m saying, but thanks for proving that Trinitarian Christians interpret and twist even the clearest of statements to fit their own agenda
@@BreakFix
Just look at how Muhammadans twist the sun setting in a pool of water.
@@BreakFix I'm a muslim too. the difference is you're close the door for the truth but I always keep it open and it worth it. all other extra projects by dan gibson, jay smith, and their team, is actually redundant. the qibla of old mosques is more than enough to prove it. more proves don't make the truth to be more true
It would certainly not make sense when Hagar leaves Abraham, for her to walk in 3 days the vast distance to Mecca in the Hijaz, and only then having accomplished this astounding feat of walkiing a giga-marathon, to then run out of water and go up Safa and Marwa looking for water. So if this apocryphal tale relating to Hagar and Ishmael is true, it would be somewhere within easy reach of the lands between the Negev and Bethel. Petra would be possible, or other locations. Mecca down in Arabian peninsula isn't feasible.
Hagar’s story is a re-telling of Leto’s destiny. It’s a reflection of a slave-ideology that usually becomes popular among colonised people.
Hence, You can find a Dionysos temple in the form of Dhusara and an al-Lat temple in Petra that underline their friendly ties with Rome.
The confusion or controversy over Abraham’s sacrificial attempt is actually a result of Josephus Flavius’ statement that the Arabs are the sons of Ishmael. This re-tracing of ethnical ancestry was further cemented by Ibn Hisham some 600 years later.
@@canonjean-mignon4985 Hagar's destination was most likely Edom. By Josephus's time, Arabs had already settled in significant numbers in that part of the fertile crescent, so Josephus's mistake is understandable.
@@michaels4255 yeah, but at this point we can’t even say whether Arabs were an ethnicity or an actual religious group. There’s a new book on that assumption from Chigaco University.
If Mecca was indeed Ctesiphon, Abraham stopping by would make sense.
Finally, right before „persecuting christians“ around 250 ad, the Cesar was a much celebrated Philip the Arab from Syria. I think, we will just keep guessing..
@@canonjean-mignon4985 then who was the one that was chosen to be sacrificed
It was Petra
A short poem 🙂🙃:
History
Is izlm enemy
It debunks their claims
And bring them shames
Al Fadi and Jay
To Jesus we all pray
That He gives you wisdom
Bring mzlm back to His kingdom
Dr Fadi and Dr Jay, thank you!
Thank you for this work.
This might be your best video yet
Fantastic information, it must be very satisfying, just like a detective story
Christian Preachers vs Muslims;
th-cam.com/video/10O-qCE146c/w-d-xo.html
(watch Jay Smith 20 years back in this video at video time count 8:00 onwards)
@@abbasbeig3943 Assalamualaikum Abbas bhai
pls upload the video. Its not working.
Islam's being dismantled bit by bit...deus vult 🙏✝️
Sooner or later, everybody will be dismantled - even little boys kneeling in front of lord magic stick.
@Arief Sheik God is eternal brother.
@Arief Sheik God has no beginning nor end brother.
@Arief Sheik Jesus is God brother.
Amazing insightful information about the real Macca... It's just mind blowing for me! Thank u AlFadi n Jay for bringing these rich truth to the world. 🙏😍
BUT SADLY❗❗All those information has been there for ages, and REFUTED by muslims. Only if you had taken the trouble to research it up, only then you would have known about it and also that all these claims has been REFUTED many times❗❗⁉️❗🔥🔥🔥 so yeah, Jay Smith hasn't done any research except that he took someone else's work and re-presented it❗❗⁉️❗That's all he has done.
@@Joorawon.M.Yousuf
Well said akhi
What is rich truth? 10$ of truth, 10 kilos of truth?
Please explain.
Is there poor truth also, because I‘m rather poor.
@@canonjean-mignon4985 LoL
@@canonjean-mignon4985and people wonder why islam is fastest growing religion
Becouse for islam,you don't need a brain,you only need a book called quraan then all things happen subsequently 😂😂
It's really disgusting to talking to any muslim,uuwe🤮
Incredible detective work by Dan Gibson. Legend
Sounds like they treated the black rock, the way Jews viewed the Ark of the Covenant.
They must’ve heard about the arc itself from nearby Jews or from the Queen of Sheba herself, as she is mentioned as Belqis in the Book.
Speaking of which, the arch of Titus also has a familiar relief on its inside - the only difference is, there is no „mistress“ involved, is there?
@J DV There are a lot of the practices borrowed from Judaism. Circumambulation, seven times, at the end of the festival of booths is clearly a parallel. The Hebrew word for festival was called a hagg, which is also where we see the word hajj coming from. Abraham's rock over which the Temple is built is another parallel: they couldn't move that down to Mecca but a random black rock did the trick. The Ark of the Covenant was mobile and where the Jews focused on, so this also allows a similar flexibility around the qibla, hence the lack of fuss over the change in qibla.
@J DV Are you claiming thats what muslims did?
Very interesting. So the Kaba that house’s the black rock in Mecca was built in 697, but the Koran says in Sura 2, to pray toward it, in 621? Something decidedly wrong with a book “wherein are no errors”.
The Kaaba does not house the black rock. The black Rock is completely separate and is NEAR the Kaaba. The black rock and Kaaba, are two entirely separate things - and have little to do with one another.
@@1CrazyDudeYo yo crazy dude the black rock is actually set into the corner of the kaaba. Good video.
False information . The kaba was built by prophet Abraham nd his eldest son ,Ismail .
The kaaba itself was first built by abraham before prophet mohammed pbuh, and was rebuilt before the date you mentioned
@@BroosDager they’re completely different stories that have no coloration to each other.Placed near other, but aren’t related.
Thanks sir for your efforts
I can now totally imagine that Mecca is nothing but an amalgamation of Petra (the Pagan traditions) and Jeruzalem (the Judeo-Christian traditions). With them choosing the name Mecca because that name happens to be in the Quran, so they can sell their new city. All the work of this channel is truly invaluable!
One word- Abasids.
Learn to spell the word Abbasid first.
@Mahmood
The meaning is important. The black banners from Khorazan refers to the people from Abbasabad at the coast of the Caspian Sea.
Have You looked at the oldest picture of Islam? It’s a depiction of Abul Abbas as-Saffah: look closely, the first Muslims are mongols from Iran lol.
@@mahmoodali1533 typical muslim response. Address the point..
@john wick
Arabic grammar had also been invented by the persians. Look up Sibawayh, thank me later.
@John Wick
If I were You, I wouldn’t insist on things I cannot prove: that would be a hypothetical debate. Show me one book from Du‘Ali. There is none. Yet, it’s a matter of personal preference. I don’t engage in discussions I cannot back-up with sources.
It is said to be like this, I heard somebody say that. I‘m sorry but on this level, I won’t waste more energy.
Is the black rock, Kaaba, a cintamani stone? Comet? Meteorite? I've heard some bad things about what this rock possibly is and why the people walk clockwise around it.
There is also now questions concerning the true age of Petra. Might be what they call a Legacy city. Which means the the nabatians found this city and re- occupied it. They built on what they found.
Wow! Great explanation. JESUS bless you both
Strength for today and bright hope for tomorrow. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK .I LOVE YOUR CHANNEL.GOD BLESS YOU ALL🙏///.............................
God bless doctor Al Fadi and doctor Jay Smith for revealing the truth 🙏🙏🙏
Jay and Al Fadi, I have a question. Why did ibn Zubayr take the black rock to Mecca when it was so short of water? Could the zam zam well sustain his army?
Thank you Jesus
Superb 👍
Historical.. Textual... and Source Criticisms are the greatest enemies of Islam..
It's getting to be a habit to swing from CIRA Int'l and your channel and not a day goes by without watching you both. sometimes I don;t know which channel I am in!!!!! As we all know, the truth shall prevail and it will always comes out at the most perfect time!
Awesome 😎 great work 💯💯❤️
Jay claims that Al Hajjaj (when building the in Between Mosque in 708AD) did not want to decide about his allegiance between Ummayad and Abbassids. I am very confused about this statement. For once, isnt this much before the rise of the Abbasids?
It’s only speculation, the scale is much bigger. When in 750 the Abbaside caliphate is founded, in 754 the Vatican empire begins as well.
Zubairs coin is from Kufa and it has the fire of Zoroaster on it. This Petra Mecca thing is a nice gimmick, but only a small portion of the overall picture.
@@canonjean-mignon4985 sorry, the "vatican empire" was not "founded in 754". The sentence doesn't even make sense... 🤯
@@hans471 I think he is referring to the donation of Pepin
I am not an English speaker. Is it Ibn Al-Zubayr that is supposed to have moved the black stone or is it someone else?
According to Wikipedia, Al-Zubayr died during the siege of Mecca, which makes me think I got the names wrong.
You get the names right. Before he got killed and while his corpse was lying in the open until his mother gave in to their demands, the stone had already been on its way.
This is the truth and the only truth, lol, just joking. That’s the argument here.
Forget the stone, it’s just one of many. It’s only symbolic.
Ask Yourself, why did they remove the red and the white stones.
History never lies, false prophets do.
The hole in Islam gets bigger and bigger!
Bigger it's the lie best it's work. Unfortunately Islam will still rise for a while for demographics reason and not enough Muslim will leave this cult.
And in 5 billion years the sun will consume the earth.
Wait, did I just prove the bible is right?
For I am an all-consuming fire.
No way, god is the sun, Hallelujah. I knew it.
@@canonjean-mignon4985 yes it will sun will loose its energy by a super nova it will consume the earth as it will become bigger and bigger
I think you should link to the CIRA channel and give the original air date, in the description below the video. Thanks.
And the early-language indicators also fit Petra, not southern Arabia.
Thar is a really good point
Is the Treasury in Petra dimensionally precise to the Holy Of Holies - 20-cubit cube?
Yep. Sneakers Corner has said the Kaaba at Petra is an actual cube. However, the Kaaba at Mecca is rectangular, despite the word kaaba translates to cube.
AL QURAN 48:24
And it is He who withheld their hands from you and your hands from them within MAKKAH after He caused you to overcome them. And ever is Allah of what you do, Seeing.
It is the Iraqi Zubayr who have claimed to have found the place of the "Prophet" supposedly "Mecca" to rally people of Iraq vs Abd al Malik who have defeated him in 690-92. Before, no sources attests the existence of this place: nobody knew "Mecca". Malik have kept the place that Zubayr had found. That is the (real) story.
Read a.j Deus Surah 2 Many Qiblas...and you will be closer to the truth.
@@miguelsureda9762 I'm in no need to be closer.
@@user-yz1dl3eu8l I definitely did not imagine an answer as stupid as this one.
@@miguelsureda9762 Maybe because you did not get it.
Glory to our Lord Jesus christ for the good work u re doing well
Every one has to Know and learn Islam, in order to know how evil and false it is
May Allah guide us all. Ameen
Without LIES Islam DIES,in Islam you are either FOOLED or a FOOL.
@Forgiving Fragrance The injeel is a muhammadan fiction: we have very ancient New Testament biblical scrolls, some pieces dating to the first century, which prove the integrity of the Bible. The early translation & export of the Bible makes it impossible to destroy and re-write our scriptures like islam has repeatedly done: our scriptures were so quickly sent around the known world of the time, which made tampering impossible.
@Forgiving Fragrance complete nonsense, I challenge you to state with evidence exactly what the big disagreement is between christian scholars?
Meanwhile the quran is a false corrupted book infact there is no complete manuscript of the quran anywhere in the world that matches today’s 1924 cairo text.
Plus no one knows who wrote down the quran either
@Forgiving Fragrance What a load of garbage - and such silly assertions, I’m actually embarrassed for you. No doubt some imam has told you this nonsense and you believe it. All historical, archaeological, scientific, and artifact evidence supports the biblical narrative, and crushes the lies of islam.
@Forgiving Fragrance plus since muhammad performed no miracles, and all he had was private revelations that were not corroborated by anyone, islam can’t prove that he was not a mentally unstable man who heard imaginary voices and needed medical attention
@Forgiving Fragrance islam is false, how come there is NO archaeological evidence for Mecca before islam???
It is a false religion from the pits of hell.
I got that Islam is a political religion. That's a strength because the power in charge is legitimized by religion. In case of a doubt, the ruler is in a position allowing him to decide what the truth about his religion is. His very life could be in jeopardy or simply his power. So declaring that dissenters are in the wrong is tempting. Having dissenters' religious writings burned and killed is seriously tempting. It must have happened because of "fitna". Uthman has been killed if I remember correctly and he is fondly remembered. Then, religious civil wars have happened and must have been ferocious. The "power that is" is defining the truth, not the reality on the field. It allows a lot of variants during Islam's history and the entire rewriting of their faith. Owning a different and "better" Quran is then a legitimization of being independent from the central ruler. Textual criticism is then a non-starter. Historical research is simply dangerous to the faith. In the end, the rulers have to reconcile their needs (sometimes survival) with the faith they teach and are in a position they can modify the faith. I see no reason why they would not have done that in the past. This makes erasing older texts a necessity, destroying holy books with too many differences becomes logical. The idea of "the new is better than the old" is highly convenient. This makes a necessary to destroy opposing parties. This gives meaning to the horrendous treatment the body of Ali has been submitted to. Islam being a political religion makes sense. It's not good. The Roman Catholic Church has some sticky stain on her for that same reason.
Lutheranism and Calvinism and Anglicanism, but not Catholicism, began as state religions.
@ Brand X
I didn’t read that long comment, just Your reply, but You are right. Christianity evolved out of a natural science. In the beginnings, there were about 60 or 70 different christian communities, each one of them preaching a different Jesus. The docetists for example, are one of my favourites: their Jesus is actually like the T-1000 from Terminator 2.
"I see no reason why they would not have done that in the past" - It was much easier before the printing press when books were rare and costly and had to be copied by hand.
@@canonjean-mignon4985 Since Christianity began among a small group of Jesus's followers in Jerusalem, it could not have "began" as 60 or 70 different Christian communities. The existence of Docetism is totally undocumented until AD 200 (so not the "beginnings" of Christianity), and it is obviously an extreme accommodation to Platonism. At the first ecumenical council in AD 325, every single bishop without exception condemned it as a heresy with no hesitation. In the second century, Irenaeus in his refutation of the Gnostics who created a variety of amalgamations of Christianity, paganism, and Platonism, pointed out that in contrast to the secretive Gnostics all of the oldest Christian communities presided over by bishops who had traceable ecclesiastical lineages taught a uniform and transparent doctrine. The "burning issue" of Irenaeus's era was on which date to celebrate Easter. The uniformity of their teaching indicated the authenticity of their faith. Just the opposite of what some contemporary scholars like to argue based on sparse sources mingled with speculation, or by exaggerating minor differences of opinion that coexisted among the bishops without disrupting intercommunion. Serious divisions emerge not at the "beginnings" of the Christian faith, but later on, which is the same pattern we typically find among new religious faiths that begin around a single teacher: beginning with consensus, with aberrant new teachings emerging only later.
@@michaels4255 well, in order to call one system a heresy, You first need to have an orthodoxy. This usually happens with the help of political structures. So, in terms of Christianity as we would see it, we have to look at Chalcedon 451 ad.
You should think about the geography here: Irenaeus is from France and he is the one who proposes 4 gospels to be authoritative. At that time, the biggest Christian community is Syria and they will hold on the Diatessaron until the 5th century.
The nail in the coffin came from Tertullian. It’s all pressure from the west, while Alexandria and Antioch get basically rolled over. I got to say that Nicae is more the birth of the byzans and it’s real purpose was to unite the empire. It was not about theology.
all very logical , hard to dispute
Don't most sources from the internet state that the al-Haram Mosque was built around 640 AD? Are you saying they are all wrong? Also, are there any external sources about where the Black Stone of Kaaba was located before its presence in Mecca?
The narrative make good sense as the Abbasid were a power in East of Iran and took over a period of more than fifty years ended with total victories in 750 ( all drawings then of Abbasids era are slanted eye north Asia people with colourful clothing ) is it possible that the black stone (s) were originally in Asia then moved to Petra then to Mecca ( the perplexing stealing it for 22 years in Persia then been returned after long 22 years ! Bizarre story, Which is very long period then !! And seems totally forgotten - then returned by Shia Fatimid
If you’re thinking of the Qarmatians sack of Mecca and holding the stone hostage, that was in 930 AD. If you’re thinking of a different story, I’d be very interested to learn about that. By the way, St. John of Damascus talks about the black stone and he was born in the Umayyad caliphate and died by 749 before the Abbasids took over. So it’s kinda hard to see how the black stone could have been Persian or Asian.
Moving a stone is not a complicated task. Since stone worshipping had been practiced in countless regions, there is nothing exiting about these theories.
The only interesting stories are about the forgotten red and white stones.
Excellent post. Interesting history. Thank you.
Indonesia subtitle please, i wanna share to my friends. God bless you
The running of Hagar between 2 hills/ mountains could be a spin out of the experience of Hagar and Ishmael after they were told to leave Abraham's household in JERUSALEM area and it is notable that present day Jordan is a neighbor of Israel
Can you please cover the Shia version of Islam as well? The Shia have several holy sites in Iraq and Iran where people make pilgrimage to. They have a completely different pantheon of holy people they venerate.
On the possible pagan origins of throwing stones at the devil, I recall that the Japanese throw beans at people wearing demon costumes, once a year.
Think chucking hard stuff at bad things is a pretty old and universal ritual to be fair
Basically throwing rocks at bad things to defend yourself seems something that cavemen would even do
Abba : Thank you for the music.
Abbasid : And you will lose your head.
When and who built mosque an nabia the mosque of prophet in Madina which year was it built?
I spent my life until 40 looking for the truth of God and eternity, because I believed salvation should be for everyone; old, young, smart, mentally challenged, rich, poor, black, white, etc.. it shouldn’t be because you understand chakras or climb a mountain on bloodied knees or ring a bell or march a certain number of times around a box and then throw stones. I was raised Catholic, but never understood that salvation was a FREE GIFT, available to anyone willing to humble themselves and receive Jesus Christ as our Savior. Because he did the ultimate for us on the cross to redeem our sins. More than any mere human could ever do with bells and whistles or fasting. It was done with LOVE. Avoid those who teach hate, they are the offspring of a different god, and you don’t want to go to his dwelling for eternity. God bless.☀️
Because it was the best place for bingo...
Mecca was chosen for its ideal Bingo location
Hardly, Bingo is not allowed in Islam so :D
@@ariyani878 you're not bright are you?
@@koba9463 You dont understand irony do you?
@@ariyani878 i don't think you know what irony means pal. You just made a fool of yourself and you're too dumb to realise
Bingo was invented in Connecticut.
Is the flight of Abraham and Ishmael into the desert around Mekka an allegory for al-Zubayr´s flight from Petra to Mekka?
Nah it's comes from Ancient Egypt when king Akanathen and his followers where forced to flee into the Egyptian desert
Gosh you two ... so motivated to tear down Islam. You are actually cleaning it up and polishing it so it can shine even brighter. Keep at it guys👍🏽😂
I think they are showing how much is not true my friend. Oh sorry it’s alright to lie in your religion. Remember your prophet says.
Petra fell under Edom , Esua . Both sides of the Jordan river under ore south of the Dead Sea. The same area before the flood of Jubal and Jabal from Cains bloodline
Someone really needs to teach and clarify WHO Satan is, for Muslims. He is not a Djinn!
@@Mr_101 Mr. Malay, absolutely NOTHING on earth was created by Satan. Satan is not a creator. There is only one creator. God being that creator, means he can bring forth something solid, from nothing. Satan, like human beings, can take what ALREADY exists, and change it- like melting metal to make a car body.
Yeah he doesn't exist, just like God n jesus n mohammed n zeus n cthulu n all the other fictions
@@Mr_101 nope, I'm enjoying the only life I know I get, you'll be the one wasting that
What about Medina in 6 and 7. century you dont mention about that city..?
Are you sure it is not for NEOM city project Saudi Company,near Petra or city SEAM Sci-fic short movie......?????????
Is 72 a multiple of 7?
Underrated comment
Like they re-construct Abu Dabi. They'll might doing that to cover up the miss information about their history?.
abu Dhabi its in Dubai honey...never hear muslim go there to visit prophet tomb or any history related to prophet..muslim take package to do pilgrimage and umrah usually include package to go either jordan,palestine or Turki..there are thousand reward if pray that country mosque..even prophet praised that placed encourage to visit not Abu Dhabi la..better go to syria or Iran bcs many prophet tomb there like prophet Esther and danial there..people like you what you guys know..
@@GardeniaInc Do you know in some Muslim countries they have portable tombs and shrines of their prophets that people pray bow down kiss them and they throw money and jewelry inside the tombs? I saw one with my own eyes. it was funny.
AL QURAN 05:97
Allah has made the KAABA, the Sacred House, standing for the people and the sacred months and the sacrificial animals and the garlands. That is so you may know that Allah knows what is in the heavens and what is in the earth and that Allah is Knowing of all things.
I wish Jay Smith would realise that the art of communication is not to assume that everyone knows what you are talking about as some of us clearly don't and a good communicator brings their presentation down to a level that everyone can understand. For instance why did the Abbasids hate the Umayyads. What is the 93000 you are referring to. What is the 7000 which was then reduced to 2000. What is the relevance of a building project in Mecca around 697 and what was its purpose. You are supposed to be world class - please act that way and realise that to some of us this is completely new stuff.
According to Mel from Sneaker's Corner, the Meccan inscription has been destroyed and now all they have is a picture...
Jay and Al-Fadi =legends
What is your fact?
knowledge is king, king is knowledge, the more we know the more kingly we become, dispel the myths and the truth sets you free, travel in time and spaces, learn the knowledge , its extremely freeing,
Why It's a black rock anyway? Does It have some sort of atoms? Or the big elephant foot?
Islam is finished. Thanks to brothers Alfadi and Jay simth.
Muslim here. So Islam not finished like you falsely claim.
ISLAM FOUNDATION TOTALLY FAKE
REASON COPY PASTE FAKE QURAN
@@BreakFix yes, you are here bcz you are holding back falsely and not wanting to acknowledge truth which even yasir qadir started saying 'holes in narrative'. Is he islamic scholar from west...
You said that like if Islam was a wrestler and just got back-suplexed from his title.
Lol that's funny that last time I checked Islam was the fastest growing religion and people leaving Christianity ...
I know a preacher who used to quote a part of Romans 1:17 and 2 Cor. 3:18 back-to-back, as if they were a single verse. He would say something like, "We go from faith to faith and from glory to glory." I told him he was splicing together two separate passages. He insisted he was not. So people who really don't know the material will swear that their knowledge of it is accurate. It happens in every religion.
Because they are all man made and politicaly biased
In more than 15 ahadith found in the Sahih of Imam Bukhari, Sunnan of Imam Abu Dawwud, Jamii of Imam Tirmidhi and others, the prophet (saws) said Islam has a specific lifespan on earth, these Ahadith state Allah gave Islam 1500 years then relatively soon after this He would establish the Hour, we are now in the year ...
Sayyid Rami Al Rifai
The Lifespan Of Islam On Earth: How Much Time Does Islam Have Left On Earth
Wait. The Kaaba is known as the “forbidden place of bowing?” Then WHY DO THEY BOW?!
If everything relates to Petra, then are the Muslims descendants of Moab and Ammon, Isnt it? Wait.. Arent those the children of Lot's daughters?
Obviously, everything does not relate to Petra.
Wtf lmao all scriptures says Arabs are descendants of Ishmael when Abraham left them in the desert in mecca also the Bible specifically says Abraham left hajar and Ishmael there in arabia not Petra or jorden it makes no sense whatsoever
Also the Bible says descendants of Ishmael are the people who guards the kaaba. Well the Bible didn't say kaaba specifically but with other words I forgot you can look it up
@@Knight_sa please give references for your claims. Else keep your whitewashing to yourself.
@@voldime Genesis 17:20 - 21:17-18 - 21:21 and so on a lot of verses talks about the descendents of Ishmael lived in the desert of Paran also don't be so blind do you know who's qedar or what's desert of paran?! Paran is mecca
A very well packaged set of data. You may not be far away of the historical reality.
Ali Uyar How far is from Medina to Petra?
@@sirunikunushik7735
Really???!! But you reckon Abraham traveled from Israel to Mecca to build the Kaaba? How far is that?
@@TesseRact7228 There is zero historical evidence Abraham was in Mecca and zero historical evidence Ishmael built Kabah, that's only Muslims make believe.
@@sirunikunushik7735
Precisely.
@Hisham Malik
Genesis Chapter 1 verse 3 : Let there be light. You idiot.
Actually this means a new history. Because of you we can learn true history of middle east and iran. Maybe we can learn much more about kurds too. I am really exited about the true history. Please tell us more about that time. Thank you a lot.
What of the Satanic verses? In them, Satan sanctioned the worship of three goddesses.
Been saying that for years.
These 2 guys only telling lies
Facts do not support the claim that Petra or Nabataea was Islam’s birthplace or that the real arena of earliest Islam was Nabataea, not Hijaz. Rather, facts support the opposite.
It appears that, while Muslims in the early Islamic centuries did not have tools to determine the qibla with precision, the early mosques probably pointed neither at Petra nor at Mecca, but they actually followed astronomical alignments; winter sunrise of mosques in Egypt and winter sunsets for mosques in Iraq.
While the Quranic qibla is a mind’s focus of attention and therefore not a physical direction, its transformation into a physical direction during prayer is clearly a later development, most probably during the late Umayyad or early Abbasid period.
Now, on one hand, there is no Quranic support whatsoever for the prevalent Muslim belief that Abraham ever visited Mecca or that Kaba at Mecca is the same as Abraham’s original sanctuary at Bakkah, which he reputedly built with his son Ishmael. On the other hand, in our reading, Bakkah in the Quran is an emblem that refers to the original Sanctuary/Institution (bayt) of security and guidance, ‘built’ by Abraham (3:96-97, 2:125-127, 22:26, 6:79), rather than a physical place. Even the biblical mention of ‘the valley of the Baka’ (Psalms 84:1-12) appears no more than allegorical.
While it is possible that the current Mecca (accepting it as Mecca of 48:24) used to be less important in the earlier Islamic centuries than it is today, we do not think Petra - which lay in ruins in 7th century since it had declined fast after the Roman occupation and a 4th century earthquake - had really anything to do with the emergence of Islam. Also, there is no evidence in the Quran that ‘Mother of Settlements’ (Ummul Qura, 6:92, 42:7) refers to Petra.
Finally, it is important to note that the tenets of Islam as found in the Quran are universal and therefore not bound or affected by whether any city or land or direction is accepted as original or not (Quran 2:177).
Dear, Dr Jay
Do you know that Nazareth was a wasteland, not even village nor city, at the time of Jesus ?
Thanks
From where did the Bible come from, and to whom it was being sent to? Who was the sender, and who was the recipient? -09-12-23