@@violetsplace524 You can debate that but the idea that people created the city out of nothing to coinceid with their narrative is kind of ridiculous. I said most acedemics not all debunk because some Western scholars also believe that its fictional just becuase the sources for Mecca's existence is only from Arabs and Muslim. It is only excepteble if it comes from Western sources according to them.
Just because a place called Mecca did not exist back in Abraham's time does not meam it did not exist or a city to forn later. Most of the stuff he says can be debunked by just goggling it.
Not one Malaysian know about this. Not one Muslim Malaysian know about this..... Not good enough. We need to share it all over the world. Share it with love
@@AbdulDanmalan ha ha it is unstoppable, the Internet is becoming more available to many more countries, in the dark at the moment but the light of the Internet will come, bringing the good news.
Now this is the true Sword of Damocles. The three-pronged stool of Islam will be decimated just on the question of Makkah alone. We haven't even touched on Muhammad or the Quran yet!!! Amazing. It needs to get viral
In non-Islamic countries, Muslims are free to speak their faith. But in Islamic countries, anyone who carries a Bible and teaches another religion or Christianity is arrested and imprisoned. Where is the spiritual meaning in that? What are Muslims afraid of?
You're having a laugh. He didn't even know that Egypt wasn't a islamic country until long time after uthman had dispatched copies of the Quran. What an ignoramus
Hi Magatism.Mary Harb and Bob the builder did a live stream a few days ago.Mary suggests that the Saudi Mecca area of today was an active area before Muhammad was born,and they dug wells,and Islam was only for Arabs.
@@akkafietje137 Yes, that is a risk, any odd group can target him to become famous. But if push comes to shove, we will return in kind. Many algerians, eritreans, nigerians, albenians, libyans, kurds, syrians, mexicans, south Americans, norsemen, vikings, irish who could take down their influencers without batting an eye for enough money.
@@akkafietje137 We pray for them, even for those who wish us harm. But we stand for the Good Samaritan Creed who would defend any victim irrespective of his religion, caste, creed, social station as an obligation to our God. Pray that no soul is lost...
@@stats4861 I was going a bit off-topic but the point is that many people hate Muslims and accuse them of persecution when they haven't even met them. If 2 billion people were terrorists the whole world would have ended by now. This isn't to do with the video
@@AAa-rz6sy He would challenge their thinking, if he believed they were wrong. He dd that with groups in his own time. He was no jihadi though, forcing his beliefs on people, he gave people the choice to listen or not.
I love the details and the series Jay. It gives great understanding to those of us who are beginners in learning about Islam. But I’m sure an abbreviated form will be good for those who are more knowledgeable. Thank you so much!
You marshalled the evidence very well there, it's very convincing about Mecca's lack of centrality before the 8C. Will be interesting to see if any muslim can respond to the arguments, rather than the usual deflections and ad hominem slurs.
Excellent series! I like asking questions that are not tainted with anti-Islam bias. Historical claims are not accepted because they are old and previously unchallenged. Answer the questions! Provide archeological and documental evidence that is 'neutral hard evidence' showing that SIN is true. That's all that is being asked.
You must be very gullible to say that this series was excellent, I thought you want hard evidence but Jay the Compulsive liar is talking you for fools😅 Ask Jay to provide proof as he is making the allegations. ASK HIm * Where in the ISLAMIC NARRATIVE does it say that MECCA is the oldest city😅
Good to see you again Mr Jay, you never disappoint us came back with another great educational video god bless you my friend keep it up with the amazing work 👍
MR. JAY, YOU'RE WASTING YOUR TIME SEARCHING, PICKING UP OBSOLETE DETAILS IN ISLAM. YOUR VIDEOS WILL NEVER PREVENT THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE CONVERTING TO ISLAM EVERYDAY ALL OVER THE WORLD!🤔
@@verity4917 wrong I was one of these Muslims who knew nothing about my own religion but through people especially like Dr Jay showed me all about Islam's terrible, filthy and dark side now I am a free man and feel proud of myself.
Bigfoot. Loch Ness Monster. Mecca in the 7th Century. Alonzo Harris whenever this topic is raised. The most elusive things in History. In ascending order.
@@AceRamona I know this is your motivation. You want to try to avoid serious theological discussions. That’s why you support an online clown like Jay Smith. Your whole movement is a controlled platform with yes men without any engagement with experts in the field. You are a sect. If you are not willing to seriously engage with people. I have only one medicine for you. The trinity is three gods.🫠
@@alonzoharris9049All the dammed sentenced burning in hell are now All believers in the gospel Once sentenced you are sentenced for eternity About one the one true God who came in human form died went to hell rose again and ascended into heaven to Save you from death and hell ✝️ His name is Jesus Christ to Save you!
I was pondering about this, creating the parallels and reducing Islam to non-trinitarian Christianity with a belief in Jesus as the Messiah who will return to establish God's Kingdom as narrated by the Qur'an, this makes a strong basis on having the discussion on how Muslims are following Jesus and are their traditions telling them anything about being followers of Jesus. It seems the Hadith are missing the fundamental doctrine that helps them believe in Messiah and the last day.
Bravo! I loved the final points especially. The questioning of our faith must not shake us, it must STRENGTHEN us as we learn the truth. If you are wrong in the most important decision you can make, where you will spend eternity, don’t you want to know? May God continue to bless us all as we seek Truth. This former “raging atheist” now washed in the blood of her Precious Lord and Savior thanks you wholeheartedly. ❤️
@@AAA-q3f4j nothing but an Ottoman fort has been found in Mecca, no archaeological items at all. Topkapi Museum has ridiculous things like hair supposedly from Mohammad’s beard, a couple of different sized footprints attributed to Mohammad. 😂 Even sorrier is the pitiful area in the Louvre for Islam to show its stuff - little to nothing for ancient Mecca. Islam is a fairytale like King Arthur & Camelot.
@@karenthompson1337 LOGIC DICTATES that Archeological proof is required when there is no city but Mecca is there...since the time when Abraham and Ismael rebuilt the Kaaba on the foundations from Adam... QUESTION What do your bible scholars say about Mecca and Medina, instead of believing these ISLAMOPHOBES?
Jay, the contradiction is that It could not have been both a centre of trade and a sanctuary. Sanctuaries were usually away from the settlements. It was simply a place people went to probably once a year. Yet the SIN tells us that Mecca was both. A big hole and I cannot understand why Muslims do not ask this question of their scholars.
A few talking points... Allah is all knowing, but the concept of time and mathematics are not included in the 'all', because praying 50 times in a 24 hour timeframe cannot be done even if Allah knows best! Then talking back to Allah, because you don't agree with Allah (two no no's right there) because Moses, whom, Mohammad never met, and who is according to islamic traditions in no position what so ever to tell Mohammad time over time again that Allah is wrong and needs a talking to... In 'real life' Mohammad would have punished Moses and most certainly not have Moses tell Mohammad what to say to Allah, so therefore IT MUST BE A DREAM (within a dream, because flying (?) to a place that meant nothing UNLESS the city PETRA was actually Mecca as described not more than ONCE or TWICE in the qu'ran)... So Jay can you explain the above?! Jay thanks a million and keep up the great work!
Show me where Petra is described as MECCA in the Quran. LOGIC DICTATES that if Mohammad (saw) spoke to Allah or Moses, the Salat would not be practiced today. The 50 X 'Salats (compulsory prayer) was not the amount and reduced to 5 x...but the reward of 1 Salat = 50 Salats.
@@AAA-q3f4j I can't show you that, but it would make sense if Mecca was Petra, because there was no city called Mecca before the Abbasid Caliphate invented the city of Mecca, where it is situated now, halfway through the ninth century... Of course the Abbasid Caliphate was also responsible for creating the qu'ran as a way to unite and govern the Arab clans, because these savages were more busy killing each other than working for the Caliphate's cause; world domination! But because the location of Mecca is so far away from Pakistan and that combined with the stolen stories from the Jewish Tenach, they just couldn't comprehend the mistakes they were making during the fabrication of the islamic cult Mohammedanism!
@@AAA-q3f4j in the Quran? it is mentioned but no description. the Hadiths describe it though. a lot. but not by name. and all description of The Place of the Prophet do not fit with Mecca at all. and these Hadiths predate any reference of Mecca anywhere historically. Mecca appears only at around 720s-740s. all Qiblas point towards Mecca, right? then why all Qiblas until 680s point towards Petra? even some in India do. the Abbas changed it all and made up Mecca. Petra was the Ummayad seat.
My question; why say Mecca? 2nd question; what about Medina? I recognise Medina as the power base for Abu Bakr, and the inconsistency in Tabari's account, but if a shift was made from Petra, why to that hellscape of Mecca? Why not elevate Medina, or another location?
Could you make a video on the emergence of the Shia? What is the first historical mention, the first archeological evidence? Did the batttle of Karbala really happen or is it part of the created Mythos to explain the fitnas and the internal struggles during the early Arab conquests?
One question : during the reign of Muawiya, are there many believers like Christian, pagan, orthodox Christian, Judaism, Zoroastrian etc? Are the pagan who worship the Kaabah?
if mecca couldnt exist during the time of mohammad because it was primarily a desert with no water, then how did it become a thriving pilgrimage centre in the 8th century. where did they get their water then.
The reason they unloaded i Yemen, I’ve been told, is the sail they had on the ships at the time. It was the triangular sails with the broad side up. They could not sail up the red sea with these sails so that is why the nabateans could work as traders and transport the goods on camels for them. Might that be a reason for them to unload in Yemen?
The inefficient sails would explain why the traders had to come into port every evening, and thus the reason for the 5 ports all equal-distant from each other on the African Western side of the Red Sea, but not on the Eastern Arabian side. The problem with unloading in Yemen, is that you still then have to transport the items 1,250 miles by land, which requires food and water and protection, which was so expensive that to transport a ton of goods only 50 miles by land would be the same price as 1,250 miles by sea. Land was just too expensive and too dangerous, and that is why we still transport goods today by sea even today. But finally, if they did go over land like you suggest above, where is the evidence? Where are there any receipts of goods going that route? None have been found. Dr Crone researched the receipts of goods coming in from India and further East starting from the 2nd century and continuing right up to the 7th century and found that they all went by sea, for the reasons I listed above above. The fact that there was thriving sea based trade along the Red Sea for centuries before Islam seems to debunk your theories about the inefficient sails.
@@pfanderfilms Hello Jay. Many thanks for all this great info about Islam but also about fundamental christian facts. Your videos are very well made and you are a real teacher. But with each new knowledge that requires correction, videos are loosing more or less validity!? Also you must be a genius to be able to find a specific info in videos. In my opinion it would be great if you could create an online study platform. Pease take your slide pictures and add the main relevant text. If there is more detailed background info please use links, tooltips, bibliographies etc. to have finally an interactive "book" that can be updated at any time. Many thanks, Willy from Austria
The pilgrimage at the Valley of Baca in the Old Testament chapter Psalm 84:3-6 as a reference to Mecca, similar to the Quran at Surah 3:96 In the Sharḥ al-Asāṭīr, a commentary on the Samaritan midrashic chronology of the Patriarchs, it is claimed that Mecca was built by the sons of Nebaioth, the eldest son of Ismāʿīl or Ishmael. Thamudic inscriptions Some Thamudic inscriptions which were discovered in the south Jordan contained names of some individuals such as ʿAbd Mekkat (عَبْد مَكَّة, "Servant of Mecca").
I see the name Baca, how do you know it is a reference to mecca? evidence please? Following the video/history, FACTS are hard to dispute. Had Mecca existed in the 6/7th century, they would have found LOTS of evidence as they dug up the land for the buildings today.
Definite article in northern Arabic makes sense. The ancient Egyptian language had a definite article, which was unique for the area. More south, languages did not have a definite article. Demotic became written Arabic. Ancient Egyptian didn’t simply get cut off from history, it spread in various forms. Including its grammar, adapted by people. It would have been a huge influence on everyone in the area through history.
I would like to see Dr. Jay take on this in greater detail. I think you're right that Ancient Egyptian must have had a tremendous impact on other languages, we just don't think of it that way because of how long it took us to understand Ancient Egyptian (thanks to the Rosetta Stone).
Min 24:00 ish the trade route Patricia Crone not corona. Your trade route video with Alfadi covered quite a bit. Something of import to add to the sailing I found while looking into Simon the cirene. Not sure what cirene town but I did find a place with similar name in North Africa so I charted some nautical stuff and saw that sailing to Jerusalem from middle of north Africa that 6 to 7 days can be sailed whereas journey in land would take upto 3 weeks. A boat sailing with consistency with night and day crews would generally be the fastest, cheapest, carry more cargo as noted and also safest with exception of storms, beaching, and pirates. Sailing would be done day and night and no need to stop to sleep, can sleep while sailing. The Mediterranean ideal weather conditions for most sailing. Would have been easy to talk about the one who died on the cross and resurrected, while on a boat. People talk.
When was the 5 pillars of Islam introduce ? If it was introduced at a very latest stage of Islam, that means, Arabia was purposely making Islam popular inorder mainly to attract Muslims all over the world to come to Mecca for the invented fifth Pillar of Islam. When every years millions and millions of Muslims coming for Pilgrimage, spending a lot of many in Mecca, for Arabia.
@pfanderfilms Hello Jay. Many thanks for all this great info about Islam but also about fundamental christian facts. Your videos are very well made and you are a real teacher. But with each new knowledge that requires correction, videos are loosing more or less validity!? Also you must be a genius to be able to find a specific info in videos. In my opinion it would be great if you could create an online study platform. Pease take your slide pictures and add the main relevant text. If there is more detailed background info please use links, tooltips, bibliographies etc. to have finally an interactive "book" that can be updated at any time. Many thanks, Willy from Austria
When you think about it, the teachings of Islam are so completely random, they remind me of Monty Python sketch comedy. All we are missing is the Spanish Inquisition.
The Coran say: "ربنا إني أسكنت من ذريتي بواد غير ذي زرع عند بيتك المحرم ( ..." aya 37, Sora 16, Ibrahim, which reads in English, " Our Lord, I have settled some of my descendants in an uncultivated valley near Your Sacred House.." This is completely the opposite of your claim. By the way the Coran is the First and official reference in Islam, no hadith or sira can deny a single word of it.14:37
yes and that spells "a powerful trade hub with olive trees and perfumes, built on top of the bodies of old prophets." Mecca alone has no worth for trade, since access to it was difficult and thus not profitable. compared to a city across the sea where ports existed and goods could be loaded/unloaded without much difficulty. if it was a trade hub as said to have been in the time of Mohammad, do you think other civilizations wouldn't have known and written of it? but of course, only arab sources mention it, and we are all islamophobes if we don't believe arabs for their word. and what you said does not help you either. it does not prove it is about Mecca, nor does it prove it to be a rich settlement(as trade cities were). and the Hadiths describe the city of the prophet at length actually. no such characteristics could be found in Mecca. ever. lastly, why are early Qiblas pointing towards Petra and not Mecca then? Petra actually being the seat of the Ummayyads, as well as an important trade city, with actual mediteranean climate that allowed for the growth of olive trees, as the hadiths mention the prophet's city to have had. but muslims hate facts and evidence, and love death threats. instead of looking, analyzing and potentially countering with a bigger fact that we missed and of absolute importance to your case.
This video demonstrates how formidable and powerful the evident against the existence of Mecca before the 10th century A.D. is. The deafening silence amongst the Muslim scholars in the “Court Room of Public Opinion” is proof enough that Mecca - the “supposedly” first human inhabited city - the original home of the 90-feet tall Islamic Adam and Eve, did not exist before the time of Mohammed and his personal angel (Jibril).
I HAVE SEEN also that Mecca Hadzi can not have been very popular in earlier centuries, even when the intermittenly working aqueduct from nearby valley was built. Because of how earliest PHOTOS show how 1st Pillar (only 1) was extremely tiny and surrounded by houses. No space! Same with Zamzam, a tiny well which is sometimes nearly dry. 🤔🤔🤔 No water for masses. Even ancient or old masses!
These peoples’goal is to discredit and undermine Islam,accusing the servant of God while they don’t know that Christianity invented by the Roman Empire is a great Hoax,great counterfeit,great fabrication and great falsification! full of lies,false doctrines and false teachings ,separating from Judaism,deceiving ignorant & gullible peoples all over the world since the fourth century until now! God knows all fabrications snd insultation done by wicked peoples,with hatred and bias and will judge all evil people extremely soon!
Dear Dr. Smith, i am almost sure that you know this: thd Marwa is after thd Moriah. the Safa is Mount Scopos which is Har Hatsofim in Hebrew. Hatsofim is Tsofim without thd HEH in Hebrew which is equivalent to “the” in English. Therefore the Safa is after thd other mountain in Jerusalem opposite to thd Moriah mount.
I'm an Ex Moslem but well Islam is definitely man-made but other religions are also human invention. If there was a God he wouldn't need to stay hidden and reveal stuff or ask us to believe in miracles that we have no means to verify that they ever happened
Maybe I missed something, but if Mecca has no history why does it exist at all in its present location? There don't seem to be any obvious reasons for this location.
@@AAA-q3f4j Well that's true. Bizarre how religions fight with each other. My religion's better than yours! But it is a strange and remote place to start a religion. I guess Mohammed was born there?
@@charlo90952 The location of Mecca was not ''remote" when the First man built the FIRST HOUSE OF GOD, the Kaaba - it was green with rivers and animals ...only after the flood of Noah, that region became a desert and when Abraham and Ismael rebuilt the Kaaba on the same location of Adam, it attracted different Arab tribes because of the Zam-zam well. MOHAMMAD (saw) DID NOT START A NEW RELIGION He COMPLETED it.
@@AAA-q3f4j Well...there's history, and then there's religion. We're just looking for the historical facts, which have no relation to what the religion teaches. If you want to believe the world was made in six days and there was a worldwide flood you're perfectly entitled to do so. Others are entitled not to believe that and look for scientific evidence of what actually happened. The scientific evidence so far points to Africa as the origin of humanity not Arabia, so the first man would have built a hut in central Africa. I suppose if Mecca has some water it must have been a watering point for camel caravans crossing the desert.
Well if Meccan archaeology is impossible due to the recent construction (destruction) boom Jedda certainly could be investigated. I'll bet they still won't find much or what they do find completely refutes the SIN!
MECCA is Ancient and had many names - the Quran called Mecca, Bakkah. The 13 sons of Joktan, the son of Eber lived between Mesha and Sephar. Mesha is MECCA and Sephar is MEDINA (Gen 10:30)
source please. we found Sodom and Gomorrah to have been actualy real, yet no word on Mecca or any city that housed so many prophets anywhere. except from arab sources starting with mid 8th century. why is that?
@@ragael1024 Obviously Islamic sources started with Mohammad (saw) from the Quran and then Hadith but earlier sources can be found. Look at your bible study for Gen 10:30 and it will tell you; ''Mesha is MECCA and Sephar is MEDINA''.
Jay, that idea that Christianity looked deprecated because of the doubts about the Bible's authenticity and evolution, in the 19C, was that really the problem? It could factor in at the time,. In the UK the dehumanizing aspects of the Industrial revolution seems to be a big factor, then the catastrophe of the World War I, where there were such appalling things happening, such waste of life and folly. Sad that somehow God was blamed for that war, when it was essentially human pride driving the various nations that way. The churches were a bit slow to care for those battered by industrialization ,,, The pentecostal movement from the early 20C was showing from God that God is still doing the supernatural stuff, and very real, in spite of for instance biological evolution or inevitable human involvement in producing the Bible, with our humanness.
I never could figure out how Hagar traveled 700 miles through a desert to Mecca with Ishmael and how Abraham would go visit in a day to Ishmael..in Mecca? Petra makes more sense.
I think my main question is how to get into the muslim mind so that they will stop and listen. From what I've seen, they so blindly follow their clerics, it's hard to get them to look outside their conditioning.
Do one about sura 6:75 and genesis 11:27 Abraham and Ibrahim are not the same. So is Ismael not Ismael and Hagar is not Hadjar. 16:57. Mo had a flying carpet so daily contact is possible on 600 miles.
Jay is a hero, Muslims have been cancelling criticism long before cancel culture was a thing.
Jay is a joke. 😂
@@violetsplace524 The fact that Non Muslims scholars, acedemics and orientalist debunk his findings.
@@violetsplace524 I said Non-Muslim scholars and Acedemics and I might include historians too.
@@violetsplace524 You can debate that but the idea that people created the city out of nothing to coinceid with their narrative is kind of ridiculous. I said most acedemics not all debunk because some Western scholars also believe that its fictional just becuase the sources for Mecca's existence is only from Arabs and Muslim. It is only excepteble if it comes from Western sources according to them.
Just because a place called Mecca did not exist back in Abraham's time does not meam it did not exist or a city to forn later. Most of the stuff he says can be debunked by just goggling it.
Not one Malaysian know about this. Not one Muslim Malaysian know about this..... Not good enough. We need to share it all over the world. Share it with love
Don't make a fool out of yourself
Go for it, suggest do not push, it will get there sooner or later, good on you.
@@AbdulDanmalan ha ha it is unstoppable, the Internet is becoming more available to many more countries, in the dark at the moment but the light of the Internet will come, bringing the good news.
@@AbdulDanmalanhave you noticed what rhymes with “a fool”?
Abdool
Malaysia here digi... knew about this long ago... but what can we do.. coz in the end its about trillion dollars politics from performing hajj
Great summery that covers a lot of material of your PfanderFilms videos! Thanks Dr. Jay!
Now this is the true Sword of Damocles. The three-pronged stool of Islam will be decimated just on the question of Makkah alone. We haven't even touched on Muhammad or the Quran yet!!! Amazing. It needs to get viral
For this to go viral, it needs to be broken down into a smaller, more visual, and more consumable video format.
@@Draezeth Uselesss video...These things are debinked long ago
@@ammadqureshi5061 Can you give an example of something in this video that's been debunked, and how it was debunked?
Really enjoy all the videos and history lessons. God bless 🙏✝️
😢😢😢😢4.000 İncil yazıldı sonradan , Kur'an ise bir tanedir , her yerde aynıdır❤❤❤❤
In non-Islamic countries, Muslims are free to speak their faith. But in Islamic countries, anyone who carries a Bible and teaches another religion or Christianity is arrested and imprisoned. Where is the spiritual meaning in that? What are Muslims afraid of?
They are afraid of competition and comparison, what is called Comparative Teology.
Christians have accepted and tolerated this double standard for far too long,
Afraid of truth
Don't go for competition--- hence their "Jihad"
They are not afraid.
They want to dominate and have our money.
Remarkable scholarship, an important discussion and thanks for posting! 🙏✝️
Wonderful & informative video. This sums up much of what we have already heard but it is one video. Good job!
You're having a laugh. He didn't even know that Egypt wasn't a islamic country until long time after uthman had dispatched copies of the Quran. What an ignoramus
Very informative and interesting. Thank you for sharing.
DR. JAY YOU ARE MAKING A HISTORY AND WE ARE VERY GREATFUL👍
Absolutely brilliant, Dr. Jay. Thanks🙏
Jay is legendry and quite underrated.
Hi Magatism.Mary Harb and Bob the builder did a live stream a few days ago.Mary suggests that the Saudi Mecca area of today was an active area before Muhammad was born,and they dug wells,and Islam was only for Arabs.
Agree, but still I am afraid about his security
@@akkafietje137 Yes, that is a risk, any odd group can target him to become famous.
But if push comes to shove, we will return in kind. Many algerians, eritreans, nigerians, albenians, libyans, kurds, syrians, mexicans, south Americans, norsemen, vikings, irish who could take down their influencers without batting an eye for enough money.
@@magatism It's good to see that there are still heros, we need to pray for him
@@akkafietje137 We pray for them, even for those who wish us harm. But we stand for the Good Samaritan Creed who would defend any victim irrespective of his religion, caste, creed, social station as an obligation to our God.
Pray that no soul is lost...
Thank you Dr. Smith; great jobs.
Thank you for what you do for humanity!🙏✝️🌐2.6billions solidarity 🤝
Jay believes in his own history ha ha ha good luck to him since no one else with brain can believe it ha ha ha
Number been lied to by Roman's for the story of Osiris isis horus
Excellent work!
❤️✝️💐🙏👍 our prayers and love, God's grace and blessings always be with you brother 🙏🙏
Jesus never would have persecuted muslims
@@AAa-rz6sy persecution? having debates and talks about another religions legitimacy is not persecution.
@@stats4861 I was going a bit off-topic but the point is that many people hate Muslims and accuse them of persecution when they haven't even met them. If 2 billion people were terrorists the whole world would have ended by now. This isn't to do with the video
@@AAa-rz6syI wonder what you believe?
@@AAa-rz6sy He would challenge their thinking, if he believed they were wrong. He dd that with groups in his own time. He was no jihadi though, forcing his beliefs on people, he gave people the choice to listen or not.
Jay Smith makes it easy for us to learn these important topics, we must all learn and then teach this material to everyone we know, THANKS DR SMITH
I love the details and the series Jay. It gives great understanding to those of us who are beginners in learning about Islam. But I’m sure an abbreviated form will be good for those who are more knowledgeable. Thank you so much!
Amazing, so good! 👍👍👍👍👍 and 2 extra! 👍👍
You marshalled the evidence very well there, it's very convincing about Mecca's lack of centrality before the 8C. Will be interesting to see if any muslim can respond to the arguments, rather than the usual deflections and ad hominem slurs.
No. No they can not.👀
Excellent Dr. Jay Smith
Bless You 🙌
May our Lord Jesus continue to bless you Dr. Jay. Your videos and collaborations with so many others have strengthened my faith in the Triune God.
Excellent series! I like asking questions that are not tainted with anti-Islam bias. Historical claims are not accepted because they are old and previously unchallenged. Answer the questions! Provide archeological and documental evidence that is 'neutral hard evidence' showing that SIN is true. That's all that is being asked.
You must be very gullible to say that this series was excellent,
I thought you want hard evidence but Jay the Compulsive liar is talking you for fools😅
Ask Jay to provide proof as he is making the allegations.
ASK HIm
* Where in the ISLAMIC NARRATIVE does it say that MECCA is the oldest city😅
Thanks Sir for your dedication to God’s work
Lovely series Jaysaab. Bahut maza aaya 😍
Baphmut shaltot
Good to see you again Mr Jay, you never disappoint us came back with another great educational video god bless you my friend keep it up with the amazing work 👍
MR. JAY, YOU'RE WASTING YOUR TIME SEARCHING, PICKING UP OBSOLETE DETAILS IN ISLAM. YOUR VIDEOS WILL NEVER PREVENT THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE CONVERTING TO ISLAM EVERYDAY ALL OVER THE WORLD!🤔
@verity4917 It also doesn't prevent thousands of moslems from denounced Islam. Aljazeera claim that 16000 moslems denounced islam everyday.
@@verity4917 wrong I was one of these Muslims who knew nothing about my own religion but through people especially like Dr Jay showed me all about Islam's terrible, filthy and dark side now I am a free man and feel proud of myself.
@@verity4917 Jay Smith is doing what all Christians are commanded to do : go and save the lost, he’s reached millions.
@@verity4917sure they will!! Thousands are already leaving Islam everyday!
Dr. Jay. Book is best option. Will it come in book form in future. If there are already, you can mention here. Thank you
Bigfoot. Loch Ness Monster. Mecca in the 7th Century. Alonzo Harris whenever this topic is raised. The most elusive things in History. In ascending order.
The trinity is three gods.
@@alonzoharris9049of course
Your favorite punch line😂💀
@@AceRamona
I know this is your motivation.
You want to try to avoid serious theological discussions.
That’s why you support an online clown like Jay Smith.
Your whole movement is a controlled platform with yes men without any engagement with experts in the field.
You are a sect.
If you are not willing to seriously engage with people.
I have only one medicine for you.
The trinity is three gods.🫠
@@alonzoharris9049
The Muslim butt-dragon has 9 heads.
@@alonzoharris9049All the dammed sentenced burning in hell are now All believers in the gospel
Once sentenced you are sentenced for eternity
About one the one true God who came in human form died went to hell rose again and ascended into heaven to Save you from death and hell
✝️ His name is Jesus Christ to Save you!
Great content
We do our best to spread this true the internet in order to inform . God bless u for doing this work.
I was pondering about this, creating the parallels and reducing Islam to non-trinitarian Christianity with a belief in Jesus as the Messiah who will return to establish God's Kingdom as narrated by the Qur'an, this makes a strong basis on having the discussion on how Muslims are following Jesus and are their traditions telling them anything about being followers of Jesus.
It seems the Hadith are missing the fundamental doctrine that helps them believe in Messiah and the last day.
They’re an Arian and pagan mixed cult.
Bravo! I loved the final points especially. The questioning of our faith must not shake us, it must STRENGTHEN us as we learn the truth. If you are wrong in the most important decision you can make, where you will spend eternity, don’t you want to know? May God continue to bless us all as we seek Truth. This former “raging atheist” now washed in the blood of her Precious Lord and Savior thanks you wholeheartedly. ❤️
@@peterfryer6915 I don’t think you want me to really write a book in the comment section, do you? 🥰😂
Excellent brother Jay, I never knew about this history. Good job brother keep it up God Bless You.
Excellent , well done 👍 when can we go see all the mecca artifacts at the MECCA MUSEUM? With all that history it must be a big building
There are many museums in Mecca, Medina and in Turkey, Topkapi where ancient artifacts from Islam are kept. EDUCATE YOURSELF.
@@AAA-q3f4j nothing but an Ottoman fort has been found in Mecca, no archaeological items at all. Topkapi Museum has ridiculous things like hair supposedly from Mohammad’s beard, a couple of different sized footprints attributed to Mohammad. 😂 Even sorrier is the pitiful area in the Louvre for Islam to show its stuff - little to nothing for ancient Mecca. Islam is a fairytale like King Arthur & Camelot.
@@karenthompson1337
LOGIC DICTATES
that Archeological proof is required when there is no city but Mecca is there...since the time when Abraham and Ismael rebuilt the Kaaba on the foundations from Adam...
QUESTION
What do your bible scholars say about Mecca and Medina, instead of believing these ISLAMOPHOBES?
@@karenthompson1337King Arthur and Camelot may he been a record of a king from the Saxon invasion.
More historical than Mecca and mo.
@@Val.Kyrie. yes. And Mo is likely based on a composite of a couple of actual Arab leaders who were well respected and successful.
That was amazing, enlightening and empowering. Thank you!
Was in daily contact, he flew there on the back of a donkey.
Jay, the contradiction is that It could not have been both a centre of trade and a sanctuary. Sanctuaries were usually away from the settlements. It was simply a place people went to probably once a year. Yet the SIN tells us that Mecca was both. A big hole and I cannot understand why Muslims do not ask this question of their scholars.
Because Muslims and non Muslims don’t follow conspiracy theories.
We don’t follow your made up speculations.
They dont confront jay because how can you confront the truth? They would have to come up with maps to show their story.
@@irishheritage893 True but "close together" is not smack in the middle of.
@@irishheritage893 I haven't been at all so I am impressed.
When have questions ever been encouraged?
God bless you Jsmit.God to see you well and in good condition..God bless you
A few talking points...
Allah is all knowing, but the concept of time and mathematics are not included in the 'all', because praying 50 times in a 24 hour timeframe cannot be done even if Allah knows best!
Then talking back to Allah, because you don't agree with Allah (two no no's right there) because Moses, whom, Mohammad never met, and who is according to islamic traditions in no position what so ever to tell Mohammad time over time again that Allah is wrong and needs a talking to...
In 'real life' Mohammad would have punished Moses and most certainly not have Moses tell Mohammad what to say to Allah, so therefore IT MUST BE A DREAM (within a dream, because
flying (?) to a place that meant nothing UNLESS the city PETRA was actually Mecca as described not more than ONCE or TWICE in the qu'ran)...
So Jay can you explain the above?!
Jay thanks a million and keep up the great work!
Show me where Petra is described as MECCA in the Quran.
LOGIC DICTATES
that if Mohammad (saw) spoke to Allah or Moses, the Salat would not be practiced today. The 50 X 'Salats (compulsory prayer) was not the amount and reduced to 5 x...but the reward of 1 Salat = 50 Salats.
@@AAA-q3f4j
I can't show you that, but it would make sense if Mecca was Petra, because there was no city called Mecca before the Abbasid Caliphate invented the city of Mecca, where it is situated now, halfway through the ninth century...
Of course the Abbasid Caliphate was also responsible for creating the qu'ran as a way to unite and govern the Arab clans, because these savages were more busy killing each other than working for the Caliphate's cause; world domination!
But because the location of Mecca is so far away from Pakistan and that combined with the stolen stories from the Jewish Tenach, they just couldn't comprehend the mistakes they were making during the fabrication of the islamic cult Mohammedanism!
@@AAA-q3f4j in the Quran? it is mentioned but no description. the Hadiths describe it though. a lot. but not by name. and all description of The Place of the Prophet do not fit with Mecca at all. and these Hadiths predate any reference of Mecca anywhere historically. Mecca appears only at around 720s-740s.
all Qiblas point towards Mecca, right? then why all Qiblas until 680s point towards Petra? even some in India do. the Abbas changed it all and made up Mecca. Petra was the Ummayad seat.
@@ragael1024
Educate yourself and STOP following Dan qibson or other Anti-Muslims.
SHOW ME
what you're saying is true.
My question; why say Mecca? 2nd question; what about Medina? I recognise Medina as the power base for Abu Bakr, and the inconsistency in Tabari's account, but if a shift was made from Petra, why to that hellscape of Mecca? Why not elevate Medina, or another location?
Could you make a video on the emergence of the Shia? What is the first historical mention, the first archeological evidence? Did the batttle of Karbala really happen or is it part of the created Mythos to explain the fitnas and the internal struggles during the early Arab conquests?
I was just thinking to enter these times lines into Tableau data analytics to visualize, These time lines and places are interesting !
Thanks WOW THAT'S AWESOME 👍
Read the book - My case against Islam by Afif Khaja,Ex muslim, Rationalist, ex Pakistani. He also has a You Tube channel named Afif Khaja.
One question : during the reign of Muawiya, are there many believers like Christian, pagan, orthodox Christian, Judaism, Zoroastrian etc? Are the pagan who worship the Kaabah?
Great work.
Thanks.❤
if mecca couldnt exist during the time of mohammad because it was primarily a desert with no water, then how did it become a thriving pilgrimage centre in the 8th century. where did they get their water then.
Was the city of Petra displayed on the maps of Ptolemy ?
The reason they unloaded i Yemen, I’ve been told, is the sail they had on the ships at the time. It was the triangular sails with the broad side up. They could not sail up the red sea with these sails so that is why the nabateans could work as traders and transport the goods on camels for them. Might that be a reason for them to unload in Yemen?
The inefficient sails would explain why the traders had to come into port every evening, and thus the reason for the 5 ports all equal-distant from each other on the African Western side of the Red Sea, but not on the Eastern Arabian side.
The problem with unloading in Yemen, is that you still then have to transport the items 1,250 miles by land, which requires food and water and protection, which was so expensive that to transport a ton of goods only 50 miles by land would be the same price as 1,250 miles by sea. Land was just too expensive and too dangerous, and that is why we still transport goods today by sea even today.
But finally, if they did go over land like you suggest above, where is the evidence? Where are there any receipts of goods going that route? None have been found. Dr Crone researched the receipts of goods coming in from India and further East starting from the 2nd century and continuing right up to the 7th century and found that they all went by sea, for the reasons I listed above above.
The fact that there was thriving sea based trade along the Red Sea for centuries before Islam seems to debunk your theories about the inefficient sails.
@@pfanderfilms
Hello Jay. Many thanks for all this great info about Islam but also about fundamental christian facts.
Your videos are very well made and you are a real teacher. But with each new knowledge that requires correction, videos are loosing more or less validity!? Also you must be a genius to be able to find a specific info in videos.
In my opinion it would be great if you could create an online study platform. Pease take your slide pictures and add the main relevant text. If there is more detailed background info please use links, tooltips, bibliographies etc. to have finally an interactive "book" that can be updated at any time.
Many thanks,
Willy from Austria
The pilgrimage at the Valley of Baca in the Old Testament chapter Psalm 84:3-6 as a reference to Mecca, similar to the Quran at Surah 3:96 In the Sharḥ al-Asāṭīr, a commentary on the Samaritan midrashic chronology of the Patriarchs, it is claimed that Mecca was built by the sons of Nebaioth, the eldest son of Ismāʿīl or Ishmael.
Thamudic inscriptions
Some Thamudic inscriptions which were discovered in the south Jordan contained names of some individuals such as ʿAbd Mekkat (عَبْد مَكَّة, "Servant of Mecca").
I see the name Baca, how do you know it is a reference to mecca? evidence please? Following the video/history, FACTS are hard to dispute. Had Mecca existed in the 6/7th century, they would have found LOTS of evidence as they dug up the land for the buildings today.
Definite article in northern Arabic makes sense. The ancient Egyptian language had a definite article, which was unique for the area. More south, languages did not have a definite article.
Demotic became written Arabic. Ancient Egyptian didn’t simply get cut off from history, it spread in various forms. Including its grammar, adapted by people. It would have been a huge influence on everyone in the area through history.
I would like to see Dr. Jay take on this in greater detail. I think you're right that Ancient Egyptian must have had a tremendous impact on other languages, we just don't think of it that way because of how long it took us to understand Ancient Egyptian (thanks to the Rosetta Stone).
Min 24:00 ish the trade route Patricia Crone not corona. Your trade route video with Alfadi covered quite a bit.
Something of import to add to the sailing I found while looking into Simon the cirene. Not sure what cirene town but I did find a place with similar name in North Africa so I charted some nautical stuff and saw that sailing to Jerusalem from middle of north Africa that 6 to 7 days can be sailed whereas journey in land would take upto 3 weeks.
A boat sailing with consistency with night and day crews would generally be the fastest, cheapest, carry more cargo as noted and also safest with exception of storms, beaching, and pirates.
Sailing would be done day and night and no need to stop to sleep, can sleep while sailing.
The Mediterranean ideal weather conditions for most sailing.
Would have been easy to talk about the one who died on the cross and resurrected, while on a boat. People talk.
Thank you gentlemen for this informative and useful tutorial.
God bless and strengthen you both. Listening from Australia.
When was the 5 pillars of Islam introduce ?
If it was introduced at a very latest stage of Islam, that means, Arabia was purposely making Islam popular inorder mainly to attract Muslims all over the world to come to Mecca for the invented fifth Pillar of Islam. When every years millions and millions of Muslims coming for Pilgrimage, spending a lot of many in Mecca, for Arabia.
@pfanderfilms
Hello Jay. Many thanks for all this great info about Islam but also about fundamental christian facts.
Your videos are very well made and you are a real teacher. But with each new knowledge that requires correction, videos are loosing more or less validity!? Also you must be a genius to be able to find a specific info in videos.
In my opinion it would be great if you could create an online study platform. Pease take your slide pictures and add the main relevant text. If there is more detailed background info please use links, tooltips, bibliographies etc. to have finally an interactive "book" that can be updated at any time.
Many thanks,
Willy from Austria
Mr Jay is the Hero of the Christianity,Amen God bless you
What a wonderful man.
Thank you.
Thank you for showing light, historical learning and study and TRUTH about the validity of Mecca in the 7th century.
False infor from Jay. Wake up!
I d like know where exactly is the reference for the circumambulations around the Jewish temple in Josephus Books
When you think about it, the teachings of Islam are so completely random, they remind me of Monty Python sketch comedy. All we are missing is the Spanish Inquisition.
I miss those days when Peter was at CMF...
The Coran say: "ربنا إني أسكنت من ذريتي بواد غير ذي زرع عند بيتك المحرم ( ..." aya 37, Sora 16, Ibrahim, which reads in English, "
Our Lord, I have settled some of my descendants in an uncultivated valley near Your Sacred House.."
This is completely the opposite of your claim. By the way the Coran is the First and official reference in Islam, no hadith or sira can deny a single word of it.14:37
yes and that spells "a powerful trade hub with olive trees and perfumes, built on top of the bodies of old prophets."
Mecca alone has no worth for trade, since access to it was difficult and thus not profitable. compared to a city across the sea where ports existed and goods could be loaded/unloaded without much difficulty. if it was a trade hub as said to have been in the time of Mohammad, do you think other civilizations wouldn't have known and written of it? but of course, only arab sources mention it, and we are all islamophobes if we don't believe arabs for their word.
and what you said does not help you either. it does not prove it is about Mecca, nor does it prove it to be a rich settlement(as trade cities were).
and the Hadiths describe the city of the prophet at length actually. no such characteristics could be found in Mecca. ever.
lastly, why are early Qiblas pointing towards Petra and not Mecca then? Petra actually being the seat of the Ummayyads, as well as an important trade city, with actual mediteranean climate that allowed for the growth of olive trees, as the hadiths mention the prophet's city to have had.
but muslims hate facts and evidence, and love death threats. instead of looking, analyzing and potentially countering with a bigger fact that we missed and of absolute importance to your case.
This video demonstrates how formidable and powerful the evident against the existence of Mecca before the 10th century A.D. is. The deafening silence amongst the Muslim scholars in the “Court Room of Public Opinion” is proof enough that Mecca - the “supposedly” first human inhabited city - the original home of the 90-feet tall Islamic Adam and Eve, did not exist before the time of Mohammed and his personal angel (Jibril).
A place was needed so they had to find a place that had no history. Joseph Smith had the same problem.
I will buying any books that Jay may write about this topic.
Jay....Where did early Mecca get it's water?
The internet is where islam comes to die.
On the contrary...
@@kamarudinhj.dolmoin8578 nope
I HAVE SEEN also that Mecca Hadzi can not have been very popular in earlier centuries, even when the intermittenly working aqueduct from nearby valley was built. Because of how earliest PHOTOS show how 1st Pillar (only 1) was extremely tiny and surrounded by houses. No space! Same with Zamzam, a tiny well which is sometimes nearly dry. 🤔🤔🤔 No water for masses. Even ancient or old masses!
As usual, we can hear Dr Jay Smith loud & clear. But Dr Peter Saunders is deathly quiet!
Please adjust your mirophone PS, or speak louder!
Hopefully a list of the sources who back the claims will be listed and explained.
A lot of conjectures by this man and his companions.Most ignorant people are so gullible.
i see all to be proven through scientific means and historical records. which brings legitimacy. what do you bring to disprove this? a comment?
These peoples’goal is to discredit and undermine Islam,accusing the servant of God while they don’t know that Christianity invented by the Roman Empire is a great Hoax,great counterfeit,great fabrication and great falsification! full of lies,false doctrines and false teachings ,separating from Judaism,deceiving ignorant & gullible peoples all over the world since the fourth century until now!
God knows all fabrications snd insultation done by wicked peoples,with hatred and bias and will judge all evil people extremely soon!
If Yatrib (Medina) comes from Yitro or Jethro, Could Quraysh come from Korah?
Dear Dr. Smith, i am almost sure that you know this: thd Marwa is after thd Moriah. the Safa is Mount Scopos which is Har Hatsofim in Hebrew. Hatsofim is Tsofim without thd HEH in Hebrew which is equivalent to “the” in English. Therefore the Safa is after thd other mountain in Jerusalem opposite to thd Moriah mount.
He says this towards the end of this video.
I'm an Ex Moslem but well Islam is definitely man-made but other religions are also human invention. If there was a God he wouldn't need to stay hidden and reveal stuff or ask us to believe in miracles that we have no means to verify that they ever happened
Mira la historia de Jesucristo. Te vas a enamorar. Y mira la arqueología y los milagros eucarísticos...🙌☦
Maybe I missed something, but if Mecca has no history why does it exist at all in its present location? There don't seem to be any obvious reasons for this location.
The only reason why the missionaries come up with these theories is to malign Islam.
@@AAA-q3f4j Well that's true. Bizarre how religions fight with each other. My religion's better than yours!
But it is a strange and remote place to start a religion. I guess Mohammed was born there?
@@charlo90952
The location of Mecca was not ''remote" when the First man built the FIRST HOUSE OF GOD, the Kaaba - it was green with rivers and animals ...only after the flood of Noah, that region became a desert and when Abraham and Ismael rebuilt the Kaaba on the same location of Adam, it attracted different Arab tribes because of the Zam-zam well.
MOHAMMAD (saw) DID NOT START A NEW RELIGION
He COMPLETED it.
@@AAA-q3f4j Well...there's history, and then there's religion. We're just looking for the historical facts, which have no relation to what the religion teaches.
If you want to believe the world was made in six days and there was a worldwide flood you're perfectly entitled to do so. Others are entitled not to believe that and look for scientific evidence of what actually happened.
The scientific evidence so far points to Africa as the origin of humanity not Arabia, so the first man would have built a hut in central Africa.
I suppose if Mecca has some water it must have been a watering point for camel caravans crossing the desert.
They randomly picked a place on a map and didn't think that 100s of years later people would fact check them.
Interesting that Jerusalem nowhere mentioned in Quran...
Dr Jay is right.🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
Is Petra... on your maps?
SIN is myth
احسنت بروفسور جاي
4.000 İncil yazıldı sonradan , Kur'an ise bir tanedir , her yerde aynıdır.
Thanks Jay. You just destroyed Islam.
Thank God for Jay Smith we learnt alot about this false religion
Well if Meccan archaeology is impossible due to the recent construction (destruction) boom Jedda certainly could be investigated. I'll bet they still won't find much or what they do find completely refutes the SIN!
Give a example
The explain of what is going to be said plus having to hear lectures in micro bits is complete confusion
Interesting
MECCA
is Ancient and had many names - the Quran called Mecca, Bakkah.
The 13 sons of Joktan, the son of Eber lived between Mesha and Sephar.
Mesha is MECCA and Sephar is MEDINA (Gen 10:30)
Lee el capítulo completo.🙌☦
source please.
we found Sodom and Gomorrah to have been actualy real, yet no word on Mecca or any city that housed so many prophets anywhere. except from arab sources starting with mid 8th century. why is that?
@@ragael1024
Obviously Islamic sources started with Mohammad (saw) from the Quran and then Hadith but earlier sources can be found.
Look at your bible study for Gen 10:30 and it will tell you; ''Mesha is MECCA and Sephar is MEDINA''.
Hello holywarriors with gods armor!good awerness aweckening!can somebody uppload debunking blogging Theology please!streanght and honor amen
Paul Williams is an utter fool.
I'm wondering: the end time implications of Petra.
And the mosque in China surely is the farthest mosque; not Al Aksa in Jerusalem
Jay, that idea that Christianity looked deprecated because of the doubts about the Bible's authenticity and evolution, in the 19C, was that really the problem? It could factor in at the time,. In the UK the dehumanizing aspects of the Industrial revolution seems to be a big factor, then the catastrophe of the World War I, where there were such appalling things happening, such waste of life and folly. Sad that somehow God was blamed for that war, when it was essentially human pride driving the various nations that way. The churches were a bit slow to care for those battered by industrialization ,,, The pentecostal movement from the early 20C was showing from God that God is still doing the supernatural stuff, and very real, in spite of for instance biological evolution or inevitable human involvement in producing the Bible, with our humanness.
I never could figure out how Hagar traveled 700 miles through a desert to Mecca with Ishmael and how Abraham would go visit in a day to Ishmael..in Mecca? Petra makes more sense.
I think my main question is how to get into the muslim mind so that they will stop and listen. From what I've seen, they so blindly follow their clerics, it's hard to get them to look outside their conditioning.
Que pena nao haver traducao em Português.
Always great to watch Jay smith. Very knowledgeable letting the world know the pagan religioon more amd more.
So many Problems to Be True (or Divine)
42:01 - 45:32 this a beautiful SiFi fantasy story 😊
Do one about sura 6:75 and genesis 11:27
Abraham and Ibrahim are not the same.
So is Ismael not Ismael and
Hagar is not Hadjar.
16:57. Mo had a flying carpet so daily contact is possible on 600 miles.
Dr Jay please we need u help i was trying to contact u for the past 2 years